Demagogues DJT, BHO, & FDR what will DJT bring?

D J Trump has obtained the white House, his parties control of both houses of congress by appealing to the lowest common denominator of a large segment of the population. An opportunity provided by the malaise of the Obama economy, effectively still collapsed. Recall that the collapse of the economy gave B H Obama in 2008 as it did for FDR in the 1932 election an opportunity to appeal to the lowest common denominator of a large segment of the population. DJT, BHO, and FDR are the demagogues within a century. Reagan lacked control of both houses of congress so is not on my list. DJT is a different progressive then BHO and FDR. All three believe is an class society. DJT does not believe in BHO's application of 'Rules for Radicals' of identifying impoverished lower classes, scrape-goats, and then charge the middle class of attacking them or FDR's creation of the fourth branch of government and using it to define barriers and rewards for those in a class staying on one's proper side of them. We can trace the 'white' suburbs and the 'city' welfare funded black ghettos back to the FDR initiated programs.

 

FDR and BHO and the Democratic Party have chosen the Fabian Socialist approach to govern. “The first step in any Socialist plan is the reform of capitalism, when the capitalist system is sufficiently neutralized the rest comes relatively easy.” Historically progressivism, socialism, fascism all formed in the era of the Industrial Revolution, 1800's, “Fabian Society began in England in 1887 by a very small group of elitist socialist that sought to reform society gradually into one of socialism instead of through violent revolution. At first their purpose was to be an alternative in Britain for the more dominate Marxist Social-Democratic Federation, but their true goal was to accomplish socialism through a very gradual process using the voting booth and representative democracy as their instrument of change. In fact, one of their symbols is a Turtle with the motto: “When I Strike, I Strike Hard”. “ FDR as a Fabian Socialist, “assisted in the implementation of the Welfare State, which as we should all know is merely a few steps away from a purely Socialistic State. It was, of course, implemented gradually, and played upon the weaknesses of human nature to gain popularity. … the Fabians didn't advocate complete State ownership of businesses, industry, agriculture or land, instead they sought to involve the State into very specific areas of importance such as electric power production, transportation, precious metals and of course, credit. [ just look at the programs of the 'New Deal' electric power the Tennessee Valley Authority and the electrification of rural America, transportation the regulations on rail road that led to the take over of passenger trains, land grab of the feds and mining regulation, and the banking regulations, the whole list] … Fabian Socialist construct with numerous price controls, quotas, subsidies, inspections, regulations, licenses, fees, penalties and massive government interventions into what was formerly private enterprise. … keystone to Fabian Socialism, for in order for it to succeed, central State planning and control must replace the system of free enterprise. While it was not necessary for the State to actually own or directly control all the elements in the economy it is enough for the State to have the right to assert itself in any area that it deems necessary. The Fabians called it “the democratization of economic power”, in other words socialized and centralized control over economic direction within the country. [FDR, LBJ, and BHO massively have grown these controls]

Now, make no mistake about it, Fabian Socialists are Statist, they are absolutely authoritarian in their philosophy. Their long-term goal has always been a Socialistic Dictatorship with full-imposition of a very legalistic society where the individual is simply a part of the collective.” https://www.nolanchart.com/article4425-a-fabian-socialist-dream-come-true-html

 

BHO's disregard for laws, the prevention of states from controlling immigration across their borders, the dumping of immigrants into communities without approval, and sanctuary cities etc. and his pen an phone are all example of him trying to make that last step, absolute authority of the state, dictatorship. BHO's disregard for history of ALL TRANSITIONS of former lame duck presidents in the period of transition to not stick the new president with government actions that he apposed is obvious. The actions against Israel is the latest and their will be more. Obama will released more criminals back in communities then any previous president. He has turn the privilege given a president into a blade to cut deep into the legal system and safety it provided. BHO is a vindictive demagogue.

 

What exactly DJT will do is unknown as BHO's actions were unknown. Would he have been elected if we knew? We do know that he is greatly opposed to Fabian Socialism and is a capitalist. If he can drain the swamp they created we will be for ever grateful. He Supreme court choices may be the only olive leaf give to the Lincoln branch of the Republican Party. To prevent the further deterioration of the principles in the Declaration of Independence. It will take many more years and direct action of the states and people to move back towards the founders Constitution. Maybe Trump has chosen to let the people decide. Do they want to use the non-federal means of drafting amendments to the Constitution presented in Article 5, Amending the Constitution. That takes it off his full plate.

Comments

Donna Added Dec 28, 2016 - 3:18pm
Thomas,
I was  a Bernie gal. Didn't like any of the other candidates.
Rubio if he had made it..
So i ask you this, how do you see Trump getting us past all that has fallen apart?
I blame both sides for the mess we are in, a non working government for years, and The Dem's basically screwing us all, as showed in the election, and the treatment of Bernie...
I see his cabinet lined with all Rich elitists like him, all are against any climate change, most are not for making America Great Again, but for lining their own pockets...Push for anything to ruin the earth...which lets face it we kind of require..
Thomas Sutrina Added Dec 28, 2016 - 4:01pm
The USA has been slowly fallen because it has turned away from capitalism not from anything Europe, Mexico, Canada, Mid-East or Asia has done.  Capitalism is the engine that created and drove the industrial age which started around 1800.  Fascism, communism, Fabian socialism, democratic socialism, progressivism, liberalism, and even libertarian are the philosophies that have appeared since the end of the 'age of enlightenment.'   That is what you hear from our government leaders.  Coolidge, Reagan, and to a small extent Trump have presented capitalism.
 
Enlightenment philosophers created capitalism, the principles in the Declaration of Independence: 'laws of nature and of natures GOD,' 'self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.' and 'Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.'  These are incorporated in the Constitution which is wrapped around them and the listed failures of the colonial/ British government.  The Constitution defined the process of government.  Addressing all the issues in the Declaration of Independence. 
 
The men in the colonial period saw in this wilderness of the colonies just a few steps away from the few cities and communities the laws of nature being played out.  They saw parts of Judo-Christianity as part of the nature being played out, natures GOD.  They saw men that took risk capitalism succeed and failed at the edges of the reach of the system that was often weak within the colonies in some areas.  Ben Franklin lived it and there were others.
 
Obama, Hillary, Bush(s) etc. are public officials with no respect or understanding of the document of their government foundation abandoned it which has caused us to slip into a similar economic malaise time and time again.  They have ignored the teachings of the age of enlightenment where the philosophers coming from societies lead for centuries by government following the 'master minds' approach have all failed. The enlightenment is that the failure is the law of nature for any large group of humans following a single or group of master minds.
 
It is obvious that Trump a Rich elitist saw the nature of our capitalist foundation.  We have no idea what criteria Trump used to choose this cabinet.  He may and I hope found people that saw the nature of our capitalist foundation.    They know that the swamp must be drained for themselves and their children to survive.  Like the founders it is the preservation that they fight for.  Let us hope because we all ride on there ability to find a way to survive, we are part of implementing any plan put forward.  I suggest you put aside your political issues and start with questioning if the plan(s) put forth would be acceptable to the people at either convention of founders, the colony conventions and votes to approve the Constitution. 
 
We as citizens will have to personally through out states take up fixing the damage done to the Constitution.  This has been make possible by the destruction of federalism and the states becoming subservient to the federal government, clearly reverse of the text in the constitution. 
 
Really the issue of climate change and the other issues raised during the Obama administration are minor to survival.  Only those that effect the survival of the country are important.   Start with these: 'laws of nature and of natures GOD,' 'self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.' and 'Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.' 
Thomas Sutrina Added Dec 28, 2016 - 4:15pm
People run for office because they believe in themselves: "they are a Master Mind."   Trump is a citizen politician that will return after serving us to being a citizen.  And his cabinet for the most part will do the same thing.  This is what the founders envisioned for the government they created.  The government was designed to move a a snails pace which would cause citizens to limit their service. 
 
Master minds that see that they will have to live under the laws they create with no special status will create laws we all can live under.
Donna Added Dec 28, 2016 - 4:17pm
Thomas,
thank you for your answer. I have no political affiliation. 
Neither Dem. nor Rep. I chose based on whom i believe will be the best for the USA. 
I hope you are 100% correct, in that he chose his cabinet based on the real needs of all of us.
I am in NY, a progressive state..i believe...Trumps home state!!
Thomas Sutrina Added Dec 28, 2016 - 4:59pm
New York is a two-for  both Hillary and Trump.  I am from Obama's home state Illinois which I assume he will not be returning to as the Clinton did not return to Arkansas.  Both New York and Illinois are in the bottom ten states in economic ranking.  Hillary won all ten.  But if there was state 'federalism'  a state electoral collage.  Hillary took 16 of the 97 about counties in New York and 11 of the about 100 counties in Illinois.  
George N Romey Added Dec 28, 2016 - 7:24pm
At least FDR tried to ease the pain of millions of Americans.  Obama did absolutely zero, along with the House and Senate.
Thomas Sutrina Added Dec 28, 2016 - 9:50pm
George N. R. I know that FDR is a Democratic Icon but reality does not support that view.  Did Obama get re-elected also because the welfare roles were swelled in 2012?  I have not presented the information presented earlier about the poor minimal recover during Obama.  GDP is a measure of unemployment and Obama ranks last and Reagan first about 2.2% for 5.6 years to about 4.3%.  If I could find that data for FDR it would mimic the Obama data.
 
"As it turned out, the 2012 election echoes the 1936 election. In 1936, at the end of FDR’s first term, the economy remained mired in the depression that Roosevelt had inherited from Hoover.  ... [M]any voters could see that the economy hadn’t returned to a healthy state under the incumbent, but so many of them had been on the receiving end of FDR’s massive New Deal spending binge that they voted for FDR to keep the handouts heading their way instead of risking change.

Now that Obama has won re-election, the parallels that I have drawn in the past to him and FDR are stronger than ever. ... Obama’s additional ramping up of the Bush spending. ... The Second FDR,  explosion eerily mimics FDR’s post-Hoover strategy. Perhaps the most breathtaking parallel between FDR’s and Obama’s Big Government agendas is this: In his first five years in office, FDR spent more than the previous 31 presidents combined had spent; in eight years as president, Obama will have doubled the national debt accumulated by all 43 of his predecessors."  http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhendrickson/2012/11/08/president-obama-is-the-second-fdr-not-the-second-carter/#523356e0c157
Dino Manalis Added Dec 29, 2016 - 8:54am
Trump will try to bring us together with centrist policies and bipartisanship on the issues.  Happy New Year and America first!
Donna Added Dec 29, 2016 - 11:47am
Dino,
If i can have one thing for the new year it is my hope and desire to adopt the attitude you have. 
I have never once, on any article seen a negative word from you...
You are an inspiration...Thank you!
Happy New Year to you as well.
Carole McKee Added Dec 29, 2016 - 12:13pm
Here is what I have a hard time grasping: If you are at work, trying to do a job, but have a co-worker constantly undermining you, and sabotaging you, you blame the co-worker for your lack of production. But when Obama has a whole Congress undermining and sabotaging everything he tried to do, it's Obama's fault. 
 
Dino: The only people Trump is going to being together is the wealthy and big business. Billionaires like himself got that way by not giving a damn about the working class. What makes anyone think it will be any different? And look at the cabinet he's choosing. All big money who don't care about the middle class. 
 
I didn't care for either candidate his election. Bernie was probably the best choice, but he came off like a mad tyrant. Rubio? Slime. I live in Florida and I have no use for him. He got voted back into office again because Republicans vote for Republicans, and it could be a chimpanzee, for all they care.
 
If I had my druthers, I would have rather had Kasich (R) and O'Malley (D) on the tickets.
Joel Rambaud Added Dec 29, 2016 - 12:37pm
Kind glad that Reagan was unable to control both houses his Reganomic was nothing else but the beginning of the disaster which none of the administration really tried to corral .
 As far as taking credit for the fall of the Berlin wall , it had become an absurdity as most Eastern European were simply driving around via other Countries , what He hope and failed was by reuniting both Germany was to slow down the western Germany economy , it did not work at all , as a matter of fact it was a complete failure . The Soviet were freaked out of the West , as in 1975 a major scientific and political delegation visiting France carry their mattresses in the middle of the night as they were afraid of sleeping alone in an ultra secure highest deluxe  hotel with more police around than air molecule {I was there} , and so was I in the 1960 when their leader visited Lyon same thing they dragged down their mattresses , I hosted most world leaders , I never met such leaders so afraid ... Reagan did not get the wall down it fell .
 Not to be ignored He was also the President which introduced to the media by rolling down the res carpet at the white house what he called and I quote " they are the equivalent of our founding Fathers" it was no one else but Bin Laden and His Gang , American have short convenient memory , the Indian have a saying you sleep with a snake you will be beaten ......
Joel Rambaud Added Dec 29, 2016 - 12:52pm
As far as President Elected Obama , he inherited massive debt following a war we had no business o be in , a war which directly led to the creation of ISIS , as most of their very first leaders were all from Hussein Army { they were later eliminated} the finances for ISIS were enormous and still are as they mainly were founded by the Wahabi a very sectorial faction of Islam which by the way get most of their financing directly from the house of Saud , which in turn get their money from western nation . The only logical way was to take Iraq which we failed as most of their oil I going toward India and China ......
President Obama did implement the base for national health coverage , lot of people have an issue with it , they rather see commercial on TV asking to give for cancer cure while displaying the misery children endure , they rather see mentally ill going on shooting rampage , should I go down the line , the very peoples the coal miners widows which were getting scraps under the Obama administration will see these benefits cut under Mr Trump as He promised to do so .
      Neither Candidate were a proper fit for the Country at this time , People elected Trump under the tea party ticket for a change ??? what change when you have Carl Ican one of the world top corporate raider as adviser and then move his entire family and Friends in the white house , Forgive me for being skeptical .
 
Joel Rambaud Added Dec 29, 2016 - 1:05pm
What is interesting the bulk of the red State voter come from States without or bare minimum health care for the entire spectrum of population but the 5% which are not affected , these States also have the highest Children and teenage pregnancy , the highest school drop rate , lowest education , some of the lowest wages they are called the bible belt with highest divorce rate and poverty , violence , alcohol drug abuse and gun death to a Biblical level ...
     No my saying , the data provided by the FBI and law enforcement , sound like a bit more of education and higher wages would not do harm there , Oh but a few mega Churches would be missing some ......$$$$$$
Joel Rambaud Added Dec 29, 2016 - 1:18pm
My last post will be simply on the economic result obtained by Republican and Democrat '
Republican failed 90% of the time , simple as that , the data speak for itself .
     What do you prefer in your pocket ? $ 1. or $ .65 ? look it over then be philosophical about it , Trump or anyone else from the same breed , take a loan and apply His Principle , the American Way , file for bankruptcy stiffing everyone else , Oh but He did not do it ........................
Thomas Sutrina Added Dec 29, 2016 - 1:27pm
Carole MK, you are aware that the requirement to get agreement of the house elected by popular vote, the senate( that originally answered to the state legislature), and the president.   So Carole you are telling me that the government is performing as designed.  The Democratic party and Obama's is complaining that they can not get agreement with the Republicans that have a totally different understanding of the needs and wants of the voters and states.  The Constitution works as planned.  Who is at fault falls on the area that is most ridged.

Carole, Obamacare is the result of only the input from Democrats.  You see the Republicans were not invited to place changes up for discussion and a vote.  Obama said elections have consequences.  Repealing Obamacare is the consequence of only obtaining Democratic input and support.  You see the continuous gains of the GOP at all levels of government is another consequence of the election and the lack of bipartisan support.  

Billionaires Carole are people, some care some do not and I suspect at the same mix as any other income range you pick.  Carole in the end billionaires require other people to trade with them.  Build the product they sell, purchase the product, etc.  So they can take advantage but only to the extent allowed by government and the market.  High School students have no skills or experience so they receive a low wage.  This is not age discrimination because anyone with the same lack of skills and experience will get the same low wage.  Obtain a skill or a license to work like a green card and you get paid more.  The billionaire does  not control this so long as other employers are around.   Simply a worker will change jobs.  You can read about this happening in china a few years ago.  May employer at the time complained about training a person to have them leave.  

Carole stop drinking the Dem cool aid and analyses the actual situation.  Ask your self what you would do, put your self in the shoes of all the players one at a time.  

Rubio got re-elected because they knew what to expect and they expected less from the democrat, was worse, be honest.
Thomas Sutrina Added Dec 29, 2016 - 1:48pm
Joel R., read my  Dec 28, 2016 - 9:50pm addition to this article.  You will see the comparison of debt by FDR and Obama.  But here are the numbers  from http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm
Date public   debt growth in public   debt Growth   % of debt
09/30/2015 $18,150,617,666,484.30
09/30/2014 $17,824,071,380,733.80 $326,546,285,750.50    1.83%
09/30/2013 $16,738,183,526,697.30 $1,085,887,854,036.50  6.49%
09/30/2012 $16,066,241,407,385.90 $671,942,119,311.40    4.18%
09/30/2011 $14,790,340,328,557.20 $1,275,901,078,828.70 8.63%
09/30/2010 $13,561,623,030,891.80 $1,228,717,297,665.40 9.06%
09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.80 $1,651,794,027,380.00 13.87%
09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.50 $1,885,104,106,599.30 18.80%
09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48 $1,017,071,524,650.02   11.29%
09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23 $500,679,473,047.25     5.89%
09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50 $574,264,237,491.73     7.24%
09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32 $553,656,965,393.18     7.50%
09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62 $595,821,633,586.70     8.78%
09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16 $554,995,097,146.46     8.91%
09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06 $420,772,553,397.10     7.25%
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16 $255,093,248,146.16     9.80%
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00 $252,060,821,088.16    10.72%
09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42 $224,974,274,294.58    10.59%
09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00 * $302,199,616,658.42 16.58%
09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00 * $250,837,000,000.00 15.95%
09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00 * $195,056,000,000.00 14.16%
09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00 * $235,176,000,000.00 20.59%
09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00 * $144,179,000,000.00   14.45%
06/30/1941 $48,961,443,535.71 $23,461,001,580.51         47.92%
06/29/1940 $42,967,531,037.68 $5,993,912,498.03           13.95%
06/30/1939 $40,439,532,411.11 $2,527,998,626.57           6.25%
06/30/1938 $37,164,740,315.45 $3,274,792,095.66          8.81%
06/30/1937 $36,424,613,732.29 $740,126,583.16             2.03%
06/30/1936 $33,778,543,493.73 $2,646,070,238.56          7.83%
06/29/1935 $28,700,892,624.53 $5,077,650,869.20         17.69%
06/30/1934 $27,053,141,414.48 $1,647,751,210.05         6.09%
06/30/1933 $22,538,672,560.15 $4,514,468,854.33         20.03%
 
If you add 1933 through 1940 you well get a number (did it in my head) of about the total 1933 debt.  which is what was said in the earlier article.  I assume the Obama debt statement is correct.  Reagan also exceeded the debt of all the previous presidents.
Thomas Sutrina Added Dec 29, 2016 - 1:57pm
History will judge Obama.  And yes he inherited wars, but he is not the first president or the last.  We do know what happens when you maintain troops and stabilize the region: Philippines,  S. Korea, Japan, and Germany.  And we know what happens when you withdraw troops too early: Vietnam.  We know what happens when a government is overthrown as a result of our foreign policy: Iran, Vietnam, and Cuba.  So Obama is fully responsible for the failures in foreign policy, the deaths and misery.
Charlie Raiche Added Dec 30, 2016 - 1:24am
What segment of the population is the lowest common denominator? 
 
While I agree our fore founders did much to be proud of and emulate today, let’s not forget that it was these same fore founders that condoned slavery and believed all men are created equal.  It was also these same fore founders that passed the Alien and Sedition Acts, which essentially made speech they didn’t like a criminal offense.  I would also add that liberals don’t think their policies violate the Constitution.  Take Obamacare, the Supreme Court didn’t think there was anything unconstitutional about it. 
Thomas Sutrina Added Dec 30, 2016 - 9:31am
The slavery issue again.  Washington freed his slaves by using a hoop hole in the Virginia law, in his will.  They closed that hole so Jefferson could not by law.  Both were slave owners by inheritance in their teens.  The 150yr long period of slavery prior resulted in it being ingrained in the economy.  Jefferson and Washington in colonial Virginia tried to end slavery but the King over ruled any attempt.  
 
The Northwest Ordinance did not allow slavery and after the Constitution states in that territory could not be slave and they tried to prevent Louisiana territory states from being slave.  The founders compromised to get a revolution and a country, but many did not want slavery to spread beyond the original territory. 
 
Today's congress is a great example of what happened.  Factions like we have in the present congress resulted in the GOP campaigning on repealing Obamacare, taking meaningless votes, but funding all of it in the budgets.  The courts contained people that would approve since the factions made that choice.
 
Adams that never owned slaves was president when the Alien and Sedition Acts was passed.  It dealt with the fears of the French Revolution coming to America.  It had nothing to do with slavery.
 
On this, "What segment of the population is the lowest common denominator?"  The Trump bullets of lowest common denominator are: Make America Great Again, build a wall,  I know how to do it, Lock her up, etc.  All those short statements that present a direction but noting else.  On very basic items.   Lowest common denominator speeches.  Very televised rally was a string of them.  Boring.
Carole McKee Added Dec 30, 2016 - 2:17pm
Thomas: and you know all this because...? First of all, Rubio was absent most of the time. He voted on issues less than anyone else. Now if people knew what to expect, I guess they must be fine with a representative who will not show up, will not work for them, and will wait for the next presidential election to throw his hat in the ring--as long as he is a Republican.
 
Billionaires are people who do not care about people. Most of them, anyway. Why do you think Bill Gates is such a novelty? Because he gives generously rather than hoard his wealth or buy expensive toys with it. Warren Buffet is another one. He still lives in a modest home, rather than a mansion or Penthouse. Rockefeller used to walk down the street and hand out dimes to people. That was a big deal. But you never hear about the homeless man who will share whatever he has with someone. You don;t hear about for because the media is "star struck" by wealth, for one thing, and for another, it's commonplace for poor people to help poor people.
 
Obama isn't the one complaining right now. I saw it for myself. The closed minded statures of the Republican congressmen during speeches, the remarks made to the media, and the shutting down of the government because they didn't get their way. Why is it whenever anyone points out something about the Republicans they are always accused of being a Democrat, and drinking the Democratic kool-aid? I don't go by anything said in the news or by what either party says. I observe. I read body language and study the eyes. And here is something else--I read lips. 
 
and you are wrong about the Republicans not getting a chance to add input to the ACA. They were offered the opportunity, and they refused. When asked what plan they had in mind he answer was, "something better." Well, like what? they have come up with nothing, and they don't want to. They do not want to piss off the insurance companies.
 
Now one thing I agree on is the minimum wage. Maybe make it $8 an hour, but come on! Many people with degrees don't make $15 an hour. I believe that if it goes up to $15 an hour, there will be no incentive for a person to better himself--i.e., go to college or a trade school. 
 
At this point in my life, I have a few degrees under my belt, but there was a time when I had none, other than high school. I raised my kids on less than $10 an hour, and yes, it was tight. But I did it. Maybe some of these people who are screaming for $15 minimum wage should give up their iPhones and play stations. These are not necessities. Get back to basics. While earning my first degree, I sold my car because I couldn't afford to go to school and pay car insurance. I took buses to and from the campus and to my two part-time jobs. People don't want to make sacrifices any more. Yet achievement takes sacrifice.
 
And, no, Tom, our government is not performing as designed. And it will only get worse. Because now we have a man who will take office, who will not listen to anyone, will not take advice, and will do as he damn well pleases. He is a narcissist with ADD, and a sociopath. And that, my friend, does not require a loyalty to any party to recognize these traits.
Thomas Sutrina Added Dec 30, 2016 - 4:59pm
Rubio was running against a US representative from 2006 Alan Grayson.  He had a record to run on, as did Rubio.  Yes Rubio spent time campaigning for president.  The voters knew that and he did not hide it.  So Carole they made a choice.  What is your problem?

This is a statement that can not be backed up at all, why smart people fall for dumb generalization is beyond me, "Billionaires are people who do not care about people."  Now you can find those that do and do not.  Washington was a billionaire.  He did not care for people? Really!   Billionairs that have large foundation and do good works like Bill Gates do not care about people.   See how stupid generalizations are Carole!

Carole, just look at the history of presidents actions during the lame duck period that Obama is in.  Even the TV commentators are saying he is creating a bad precedence.  He is complaining that most of the things he did will be wiped away because they did not come from legislation.  It was his choice.

Another statement that need examples, "Why is it whenever anyone points out something about the Republicans they are always accused of being a Democrat, and drinking the Democratic kool-aid?"  NO FACTS.  If you repeat the statements of politicians that do not present facts then what do you expect?

Carole I present what I found.  Searching for the involvement of the GOP I found  (Note these are senators not representative.  It is the House that promised its voters.  The bill started in the house, and by the time it got to the senate I believe they did not have a 60 vote majority so the house version was passed by a reconciliation bill  based on the house bill with a majority only.  Thus this is mute.)
Media Matters reported the following numbers about Republican involvement in the Affordable Care Act over the past 18 months:

   " According to a HELP Committee document about bipartisan aspects of the health reform bill the committee passed July 15, 2009, its final bill included "161 Republican amendments," including "several amendments from Senators [Mike] Enzi [R-WY], [Tom] Coburn [R-OK], [Pat] Roberts [R-KS] and others [that] make certain that nothing in the legislation will allow for rationing of care," and reflected the efforts of "six bipartisan working groups" that "met a combined 72 times" in 2009 as well as "30 bipartisan hearings on health care reform" since 2007, half of which were held in 2009 [HELP Committee document, 7/09]. And according to the Senate Finance Committee's September 22, 2009, document detailing the amendments to the Chairman's Mark considered, at least 13 amendments sponsored by one or more Republican senators were included in the bill."

It is also obvious the ACA was funded by the Republican controlled house for 6 years which is why Speaker John Boehner was voted out since the Republicans ran on repealing ACA so they had a hard time telling the voters why they kept paying for it.  Progressive Republicans like Bush, McConnell, and Boehner like a more powerful fed, they want to GOP it. 
Thomas Sutrina Added Dec 30, 2016 - 5:01pm
Carole, You are talking about Obama, "Because now we have a man who will take office, who will not listen to anyone, will not take advice, and will do as he damn well pleases."  Right?
Albert Solomon Added Dec 30, 2016 - 5:18pm
Why are there so many discussions yet so few that can find common ground?
                I am not a Trump supporter, nor and I a Trump detractor. He was elected President whether I like it or not. Is he illegitimate? Nope. Did he represent the will of the majority of voters? Nope.
                Welcome to our democratic republic! Yes, we are a democratic republic and I think a lot of people don’t really grasp what the means.
                Just some questions and thoughts on what I just said. I listen to debate after debate about this election, billionaires, Electoral College, He is Hitler, He is our savior, Civil war is coming, Succession, Fake News, Left News, Right News until my head feels like it is going to explode.
                Can we please just look at what can head off a lot of this debate and anger at our fellow citizens, cousins, sisters and brothers.
                There was nothing done in drafting the Constitution that was not recorded for future generations to see and read.
                If we start with one major event that we were taught about when we were children although it appears a lot of people still are, we can start back tracking from the famous duel between Hamilton and Burr. If we think back to those lessons, then we remember that their dislike for each other basically started with the drafting of the Constitution. Do you think that if we looked at the argument that ultimately ended in the culmination of the duel will help us all?
                We can easily read what is embodied in the Federalist, Anti-Federalist and journalistic writings involved concerning the electoral college. Aaron Burr and likeminded people advocated an Autocracy while Hamilton and the likeminded advocated a form of Democracy. Everyone opposed an open Democracy and rightfully so for the reason that they listed in almost all writings. In an open democracy, the majority rules so whatever the majority wanted was law. Just an example not to start a different discussion! Let’s say abortion made it on the national ballet and the majority said no not for any reason, then it would take a full generation to get it on the ballet again. The first thing that would be none existent is the bill of rights. Again, Aaron Burr outlined his reasons for wanting an Autocracy. He believed that only wealthy people new how to run an economy as did most all the founders of this country. Hamilton believed that the people needed protection from the wealthy and government that the small states or colonies whichever you prefer and by extension individuals could share and have an equal voice. Thus, the birth of the electoral college was born in the concept of protecting the wealthy and giving them control of the economy, but allowing the people to choose those that represent them.
                Granted we have long since left the founder’s idea’s because we have allowed state legislators to change laws in the states to force electors to vote tickets instead of conscience as envisioned by the founders. They made it clear of their beliefs that people seeking office only wanted to better the country. A belief that was commonly held because they had just completed a war and that at the time was pretty much everyone’s view except for Aaron Burr and a couple of others. We made Senators elected officials instead of appointed as originally designed. If we still followed that model, then we would constantly be giving supper majorities to the parties and at this point in history, to the Republicans for many years to come.
                Trump is a business man. I have dealt with many very successful businessmen and they all have one trait in common. They are very confident to the point of perceived arrogance and often are arrogant but they do not display narcissism thinking that everything and everybody belongs to them. They are the best at reading people and recognizing people’s abilities, and utilizing their abilities for profit or fixing a problem in a particular area of their business.
                I do question why would a bunch of people worth billions would step down from positions that most will never be able to re
Albert Solomon Added Dec 30, 2016 - 5:27pm
I do question why would a bunch of people worth billions would step down from positions that most will never be able to return to for jobs that pay six figure salaries. With no experience to work in a government that is clearly broke and has been for a long time. Some believe it is so they can help their buddies make more money, some believe it is out of duty and love of country. I guess time will tell the truth of their motivations! It is up to each to choose what they want to believe.
Thomas Sutrina Added Dec 30, 2016 - 5:55pm
So let us look at your billionaires.  Trump and his billionaire or millionaire cabinet members will successfully return to private live in 8 yrs. or less.  These are citizen politicians for this reason.  They will have to live under the laws they made.  Until about 1880 a representative was a citizen politician.  Lincoln like many politicians of his period served one or two terms as a US representative.
 
Hillary and Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, Reed, McConnell, Boehner, Ryan, Rubio, etc.  The leadership of both parties have spent decades in politics and have no other income making businesses to fall back on.  Some say they will return to attorneys, does not happen.  They make money selling their expertise on government. 
 
I choose Trump and his billionaires.  In the primary I picked Cruz.  The reason the politicians on the above list did not become the GOP candidate is that we know that the voters are not important to them personally.  Future income is important to them and that does not come for voters but from special interest.   Growing the pool of money available means growing government.  That is why Obamacare and all of Obama's programs were paid for in the budget bills.
 
Now will the billionaires make decisions that help their futures, YES.  But they hire people to make it happen and they actually produce something. So at least their workers will also gain.
 
What a politician does is grow government to create jobs.  The VA is the closest government agency that actual produces a product, medical care.  Government is not designed or organized to produce anything.  So the administrators do not know what they are doing.  They are experience at created procedures that are not tested and adjusted to work.  They are experience in moving paper to get something approved through a matrix.  They are experience in finding people that have made a mistake, and they are experience in slapping the hands of people that have made a mistake.  I have not mentioned providing medical care because that in not an objective.
Thomas Sutrina Added Dec 30, 2016 - 7:03pm
Jim P.,  great.  so here is a little closer to the surface.  Hillary won the ten worse states in the ALEC-Laffer State Economic Outlook Ranking for 2016 and Trump took the next.   So how well did Hillary do:  took  New York (50th position)  16 of 62 counties, California (46th) 33 of the 58 counties, Illinois (43rd) 11 of 102 counties, Minnesota (45th) 6 of the 87 counties, Oregon (41st) 8 of 36 counties and small states where she got a lift from the electoral college include: Vermont 49th, New jersey 48th, Connecticut 47th, Delaware 44th,and Hawaii (42nd).
Carole McKee Added Dec 31, 2016 - 12:37pm
Thomas: Carole, You are talking about Obama, "Because now we have a man who will take office, who will not listen to anyone, will not take advice, and will do as he damn well pleases."  Right? Come on, Thomas! You're not that stupid. Do you even know who Donald Trump is? Forget about Obama! Why can't you Trumpeteers see what Trump is? My God! It's pathetic!
 
Albert Solomon: I do question why would a bunch of people worth billions would step down from positions that most will never be able to return to for jobs that pay six figure salaries. I question this, too. Something smells.
Albert Solomon Added Dec 31, 2016 - 1:31pm
Carole M. As I stated I was not a Trump supporter, but I do except him as my President now because frankly I have no choice left in the matter. I stated in another thread that I am on my 12th President now and I hope to see a least a few more! (fingers crossed). I really don't share the cynicism of most people about him and here is why. I have heard all this before about almost every President that has been elected in my life. JFK was going to ruin the country with desegregation, RMN will get us into a war with China, The world is going to explode because of deregulation under RWR, and so on. I had some serious issues with DJT but equally with HRC. As I refused to vote for either one I went third party. I have received a lot of criticism for it but I don't care. Point being I don't believe the world is going to come to an end just because DJT got elected. We still have a working congress kind of, if you can call them working but they are a buffer against DJT, both parties don't like him. We have all gone down the wrong road at some point in our lives if we have lived very long at all. We realized that it was a dead end and made a change, so maybe he is telling the truth that the campaign trail changed him. I don't know the mans heart and my belief will keep me paying attention to his actions. A person's sense of duty can completely change a person's perspective on life. As a former member of the military I was extremely offended by Diane Feinstein's statement that people who have served in the military are all mental. Even though her statement was stupid I respect her right to speech. Peggy Noonon wrote an article in the WSJ today that I think did a great job of explaining Trump supporters. Even she acknowledged her short comings more or less in the article.  So the question begs to be ask. What makes a person willing to die to protect another person, way of life and country. It is a sense of duty! This may be what is happening but only time will tell. Stay vigilant and pay attention to what he is doing and not what the false media on all sides are telling us. As George Soros published in his article a couple of days ago. (We still have the forth estate "the media" that will continue to attack him and stop him from ruining the new world order of Globalism which I adamantly oppose!
Thomas Sutrina Added Dec 31, 2016 - 2:13pm
Albert S., I am about in you generation, Nixon was the first I could vote for or against.  Great comments Thank You.  I was not for Trump or Hillary 18% of the voters, but I ended up in the 63% of that flipped the lever to Trump.  You were part of the 7% that picked a third candidate.  Hillary received 30% of the 18% of neither voters.