Hypocritical Progressives Destroying Democratic Party

The past few months after the Presidential Election have seen the height of hypocrisy and flat-out anarchy of the Progressives in the Democratic Party.  Working in concert with the Mainstream Media (the Democrats' version of "PRAVDA") the Progressives are chasing the few remaining average decent working members of the Democratic Party are watching the once proud "party for working people" descend into a violent, intolerant "party for people who don't want to work".  I cite as examples of this intolerant hypocrisy the following:

 

- a few weeks after condemning Trump for "not willing to accept the results of the election", the Democratic Party has continuously and violently refused to accept their role as the party that lost the election.  Violent protests paid for by George Soros and other wealthy socialists have become an everyday norm.

 

- after Betsy DeVoss was confirmed Secretary of Education, she was forcibly driven away from entering a public elementary school by protesters physically blocking the doorway and threatening her with violence . . . just the way Democratic Governor George Wallace "stood in the schoolhouse doorway" back in 1963.

 

- at the campus of the University of California Berkeley - the "cradle of the Free Speech Movement" - Progressives refused to allow a conservative gay speaker the opportunity and conducted a fire-bombing, violent, intolerant, fascist temper tantrum.

 

- Senator Elizabeth Warren went on an insult rant against then Attorney General candidate Jeff Sessions, accusing him of being a racist KKK supporter despite Sessions long standing record of prosecuting the KKK in Alabama and support from many black congregations in Alabama.

 

- Instead of asking questions pertaining to current legitimate political and legislative issues, during Daily White House Press Briefings the Mainstream Media has focused entirely on petty, fake news innuendo consisting of belittling anyone and anything to do with the Trump Administration.  No President in HISTORY has been given such hatred and vitriol without even being in office for 15 minutes - this type of behavior with the Obama Administration would resulted in permanent ban from the White House Press Corp.   

 

- Senator Elizabeth Warren (acting as if she is the next Democrat Presidential nominee) wants to forbid school vouchers that would allow parents to send their children to the public or private school of their choice, condemning poor children to hell-hole, broken down, dangerous, drug infested inner city public schools.

 

 

- Progressives decry the temporary ban of immigrants from 7 nations (determined as terror sponsoring nations by the OBAMA ADMINISTRATION) while NEVER volunteering to take the immigrants into their OWN HOMES & NEIGHBORHOODS!  Hollywood celebrities that own several mansions all over the country and NY liberals living in 40 room mansions in the Hamptons cheer for open immigration - as long as those suckers in the "fly-over states" take them in.

 

Comments

Dino Manalis Added Feb 12, 2017 - 2:49pm
They're desperate sour grapes who are exacerbating the disarray and fail to represent the mainstream.  Democrats have to strive to move to the center-right and become a leadership party again.
Neelon Crawford Added Feb 13, 2017 - 6:15am
It sure would be interesting if we could bottle up the vitriol of 2017 and compare it to the vitriol of other years and against other past presidents.  In other words, where does the existing level of vitriol rank?  The nation went to war over their differences in 1861 so it can’t be that bad…yet. 
 
While I agree with your article, I disagree with the notion the mainstream media is all liberal and the protesters are there because of money.
 
I tip my hat to the Left for so easily making resistance fashionable and cool, whereas when Obama was in the White House, any level of resistance was deemed racist or labeled obstructionism. 
Mike Haluska Added Feb 13, 2017 - 9:48am
Neelon - you think the activities of the "progressives" are cool???  You think the Mainstream Media isn't overwhelmingly liberal?  Did you watch the election results on various networks when they realized Trump had won?  The vitriol is designed, formulated, bottled, packaged and distributed EXCLUSIVELY by the left - period.  Did you see the DIFFERENCE between the pro-abortion rallies and the pro-life rallies???  Did you ever see Trump supporters disrupting Hillary Clinton rallies??? 
Mike Haluska Added Feb 13, 2017 - 10:22am
Hmmm . . .  the silence of our "progressive" Writer Beat contributors to this article speaks volumes about their character.
Bill H. Added Feb 13, 2017 - 10:57am
Same rants.........................................................
Different day.
Try something different than labels and stereotypes.
Stone-Eater Friedli afronum Added Feb 13, 2017 - 11:34am
Mike
 
Hypocritical Progressives
 
Wrong. Should read
 
Hyperventilating Progressives lost in their self-created jungle of creating multiple drawers for single items and at the same time wanting to put all of them in ONE drawer back again.
 
Like: We're all the same but we're all different, so we have to make sure than the minorities that in fact don't exist anymore (since we're all the same) are not disriminated .... erm..... cough.... 
 
;-)
Stone-Eater Friedli afronum Added Feb 13, 2017 - 11:35am
BTW: Life is complicated when one has enough time on his hands and is not preoccupied with feeding himself and his family....
Stone-Eater Friedli afronum Added Feb 13, 2017 - 11:38am
BTW2:
 
the silence of our "progressive" Writer Beat contributors
 
I'm basically leaning to the left like it was defined 40 years ago. Today's leftists (in Europe) are just a delusional bunch of uncritical do-gooders who are digging their own grave.
MJ Added Feb 13, 2017 - 12:02pm
Mike, it is amazing how the Hollywood crowd and the Democrats over-estimate their importance in the US.
My heart goes out to your President who has to deal with so much annoyance while he tries to find his feet in a new government environment and a global testing of his abilities.
Good article!
Mike Haluska Added Feb 13, 2017 - 12:08pm
Thanks MJ - I give them a few more weeks (all of their self-congratulory "Award Shows" will be over) and they will go back to their narcissistic, self-centered lifestyles.  When it comes to actually doing something about a problem, the Hollywood celebs always have "prior commitments".
J. Riddle Added Feb 13, 2017 - 1:24pm
"Try something different than labels and stereotypes."
 
I'd settle for something that didn't just mindlessly parrot the garbage programmed by the right-wing Rage Machine. I can't even imagine how it must feel to be so entirely uninformed and incapable of independent thought that one must wait around to be told by Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, etc. what to "think." Even simple, day-to-day tasks must be difficult and the larger world outside must be terrifying.
MJ Added Feb 13, 2017 - 1:48pm
J Riddle, I am sorry you talk in riddles!
Mike Sheahen Added Feb 13, 2017 - 5:05pm
Mike Haluska.  I wish I could say more without belaboring the point, but you said it all, clearly, factually, straightforwardly, substantively, truly, as it is - and used the dishonest, lawless, misleading government elitist Marxist C/S "Progressives" own actions & words, so hung by their own, to do it.  Of course they cannot factually, substantively defend their position, so of course they resort to distraction, personal attack including the very things they are doing, and more, as government elitist tyrants have been doing from the 1st Emperor of China, to Stalin & Hitler, to Mao, to now, repeating history.
Mike Haluska Added Feb 13, 2017 - 5:11pm
Thanks Mike Sheahan!  I place extremely high value on the opinions of those who serve in the military.  You gotta have an accurate bullshit meter to survive in hostile territory!!!
Cliff M. Added Feb 13, 2017 - 5:14pm
Mike, After the blatant obstructionism doctrine of the congressional republicans during the 8 years of Obama why would you expect anything different.How is your republican leadership doing now that they have to take responsibility for governing?Hows the Obamacare repeal,replace,repair going?The republican congress is going to be Trump's biggest hurdle.If the republicans follow through with the policies they have been spouting of recent past many are going down the road during the next election cycle.
Cliff M. Added Feb 13, 2017 - 6:20pm
Daniel, Obama was the pragmatic sort who would cave just to make a deal.Much of what he did agree to was not in his parties interest.He often behaved like a closet moderate republican.He did more tinkering around the edges than anything else.He was basically another puppet with his hands tied.If nothing was said there was a reason.
Bill H. Added Feb 13, 2017 - 7:16pm
 
Absolutely, J.
Now they are getting served a whole new plate of marching orders along with the main course that has some pretty nasty tasting tidbits.
But you are right, they will simply consume every bit of it and pretend it tasted good.
Eating a main course prepared by Le Chef Bannon must be like eating raw oysters from warm waters.
Robert Potter Added Feb 13, 2017 - 10:08pm
California pretty consistently takes one of the highest amounts of refugees when compared to the rest of the 50 states, so those "liberal elites" are actually doing their part.
 
Just because Obama did it doesn't excuse Trump doing it.  


Jenifer Frost Added Feb 13, 2017 - 11:40pm
Stone-Eater writes "I'm basically leaning to the left like it was defined 40 years ago" 
Same here. As far as I’m concerned what Mike is describing in this article are neoliberals not progressives. I'm a Progressive and I want nothing to do with the neoliberal types described in the article. 
Bill H. Added Feb 14, 2017 - 12:32am
 
Mike loves labels and he will pull one or a dozen out of the hat for anyone who doesn't fit in with his way of thinking.
If you disagree with even one of his ideals, you are automatically a commie, liberal, progressive, socialist, fire-bombing, violent, intolerant, fascist, snowflake.
Imagine wearing that on your name tag at your next social event!
wsucram15 Added Feb 14, 2017 - 1:52am
Mike..as you watch this administration unravel due to their own deeds in SPITE OF WARNINGS FROM EVERYONE, including the Republican Party who is now backing off their support, You will find that you cannot blame those that exposed the deeds.
 
You used to complain about Clinton.. and we felt it was unfair press, now you know how it feels.  
Mike Haluska Added Feb 14, 2017 - 8:34am
Cliff - your statement:
 
"Mike, After the blatant obstructionism doctrine of the congressional republicans during the 8 years of Obama why would you expect anything different."
 
is "revisionist" history.  Obama had BOTH houses of Congress his first two years and used it to ram through legislation that NOBODY READ, WAS HIDDEN FROM PUBLIC VIEW, HAD NO POPULAR SUPPORT AMONG AMERICANS and LIED ABOUT ITS CONTENT, KNOWING THAT IF THE PUBLIC KNEW WHAT WAS ACTUALLY IN IT, THE ACA WOULD NEVER HAVE PASSED!!!
 
The result of this gigantic fraud was a Democratic Party massacre in 2010 that was exceeded in each election cycle since.  Under Obama, the Democratic Party lost dozens of Senate & House seats and is down to LESS THAN 22% PARTICIPATION RATE NATIONWIDE.  
 
In Obama's first term, half of his appointees were approved the FIRST DAY.  When you look at the combined actions of the Democrat Senate, mainstream media (don't even pretend it isn't an arm of the Democrat Party - THEY ADMIT IT!), violent protesters, Hollywood, TV, etc.  . . . which party was "concerned" that Trump wouldn't accept the results????
Mike Haluska Added Feb 14, 2017 - 8:35am
Bill H - I don't "label" anyone who first doesn't brag about being that type of person.  
Bill H. Added Feb 14, 2017 - 11:28am
Mike, you have labeled me many times and I have told you that I do not subscribe to either party or platform. Some of my beliefs counter yours, so you were quick to label me based on those. Just because I believe in man-caused climate change for example has drawn many labels from you.
Mike Haluska Added Feb 14, 2017 - 11:58am
Bill H - I will adhere to your wishes and not "label" you in the future.  Please refrain from "labeling" me (or anyone else) a "Denier".
 
Fair enough???
Bill H. Added Feb 14, 2017 - 12:02pm
 
That is fair, Mike.
I will simply go with "those who disagree"
Mike Haluska Added Feb 14, 2017 - 12:18pm
Bill H - thank you.  Sometimes I feel we're like Dan Akyroyd and Jane Curtain doing the "Weekend Update - Point/Counterpoint" on Saturday Night Live :
 
Dan:  "Jane, you ignorant slut"
 
Jane:   "Dan, you misogynistic pig"
Bill H. Added Feb 14, 2017 - 1:04pm
I just like to keep posts lively.
If everyone viewed things the same, then there would be no SNL or WB.
And what would Autumn do?
Stone-Eater Friedli afronum Added Feb 14, 2017 - 1:30pm
Jenifer
 
what Mike is describing in this article are neoliberals not progressives
 
Exactly. That's the problem with that "liberal" definition. In fact liberal comes from Liberty = freedom (at least that's the German translation) or tolerance. I'm more of an old school leftist of the Marx and Engels sort than what the US defines as liberal. And when liberal is mixed up with socialism let me tell you that socialism in the real sense never existed anywhere, same as communism.
 
The so-called communist countries were nothing else than labels hiding the fact that the rulers were noting else than capitalists brainwashing their people with an ideology that was never put in practice.
 
So the definition of a neoliberal couldn't be more wrong. I call them ultracapitalists with a desire of centralized power and control. Neoliberal in our European ears is a most irritating label.
Stone-Eater Friedli afronum Added Feb 14, 2017 - 1:33pm
BTW: Don't have a clue what "progressives" are. The word itself means "future oriented". If that's the case - can anybody tell me which of the old labels would apply ? I'm too lazy to google ;-)
Mike Haluska Added Feb 14, 2017 - 2:35pm
Jenifer - your statement:
 
"I'm a Progressive and I want nothing to do with the neoliberal types described in the article."
 
makes sense to me. If you want to see how the left has hijacked the term "progressive" just go to the "Young Turks" Channel on youtube.com.  "Progressives" such as Elizabeth Warren, Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, etc. change the name of their philosophy every 10 years or so because they screwed up so badly as "Liberals" that mainstream Americans associate the term with left wing radicals. 
 
So when "Liberal" became a 4 letter word to most people, they switched to a more pleasant sounding "progressive".  After all - who isn't for "progress"???  It's just another euphemism for "left wing radical socialist" - which they will never admit because revealing their true nature results in lost elections.  Bernie Sanders isn't a Socialist - he's a "Democratic Socialist"!  What the left is trying to do is get the American public to confuse "progress" with "change" so that Americans associate ALL CHANGE WITH PROGRESS!!! 
 
My definition of progress is movement toward an ultimate goal.  Any Movement in a direction AWAY from the ultimate goal is NOT progress.  If your goal is personal freedom and minimum interference from the government, then the current version of the Democratic Party has NOTHING to offer you!       
Brylar Foustark Added Feb 14, 2017 - 3:19pm
 "Violent protests paid for by George Soros and other wealthy socialists have become an everyday norm."
 
This has become the norm.  Make allegations without support and when asked for evidence the response is to ignore the fact the person making the allegations is responsible for supporting the allegations. 

Rather than be an adult and either provide the evidence the tactic is to make even more unsupported allegations.  Im not a psychic. 

Mr. Haluska, where is your evidence violent protests paid for by Soros and other socialists have become the everyday norm?  (Btw, how do you know the others paying are "wealthy socialists" if you do not know their names?)
 
Mike Haluska Added Feb 14, 2017 - 3:30pm
Brylar - all you have to do is check George Soros out - he doesn't hide from any of this.  Are you aware he gave $20 million to Black Lives Matter? 
 
Here's a start: 
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewsubcategory.asp?id=1237
Kaushik Venkatasubramaniyan Added Feb 14, 2017 - 4:48pm
Progressives today at least seem more like Regressives 
Kaushik Venkatasubramaniyan Added Feb 14, 2017 - 4:53pm
A person or party who define themselves as liberal would support the adoption of pure capitalism with no bailouts for anyone. Anyone propagating or endorsing State involvement in private activities and in any non-State area isn't Liberal at all but a Statist. 
Brylar Foustark Added Feb 14, 2017 - 5:22pm
Mr. Haluska, once again, where is the evidence supporting the claim:
 
Violent protests paid for by George Soros and other wealthy socialists have become an everyday norm.
Mike Haluska Added Feb 14, 2017 - 7:45pm
Brylar - as an Engineer by profession, we have a saying:
 
"I can explain to you, I can't understand it for you"
 
Nobody in the "grown-up world" is going to put you in a high chair and spoon feed you all the answers.  I told you where to go look, do your own research and stop whining and acting entitled.
Mike Haluska Added Feb 14, 2017 - 8:09pm
Brylar - I couldn't stand the thought of you crying hysterically in a high chair demanding to be spoon fed your research:
 
Black Lives Matter cashes in with $100 million from liberal foundations
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/black-lives-matter-cashes-100-million-liberal-foun/
J. Riddle Added Feb 14, 2017 - 8:14pm
"Mr. Haluska, where is your evidence violent protests paid for by Soros and other socialists have become the everyday norm?"
 
I'll only add, as a side-note, that the idea that Soros, the ultimate capitalist, is some sort of socialist is, of course, laughable. The invocation of his name in these discussions is nothing more than ugly, anti-Semitic dog-whistling.
Jenifer Frost Added Feb 14, 2017 - 8:40pm
Mike writes "My definition of progress is movement toward an ultimate goal.  Any Movement in a direction AWAY from the ultimate goal is NOT progress.  If your goal is personal freedom and minimum interference from the government, then the current version of the Democratic Party has NOTHING to offer you!"
I agree with all of that. And the "future oriented" definition from Stone-Eater. I personally also believe a dedication to finding the truth regardless of where it takes you is necessary to be a progressive, to make progress and be future oriented. This all is why I've said before that anyone can be a progressive, be they liberal or conservative. At least as long as they are not so conservative as to reject future progress and technology. Then they would be regressive, like the Amish. 
Mike Haluska Added Feb 14, 2017 - 8:42pm
George Soros is an avowed Socialist by his OWN ADMISSION (if you ever bothered to read something besides the NY TIMES you would know that).  More Soros "fun facts":
 
He recently gave $33 million to Black Lives Matter
 
He was a NAZI collaborator during WWII
Jenifer Frost Added Feb 14, 2017 - 8:58pm
Here is an excellent article which shows, among other things, the involvement of Soros in, not all, but much of the recent protests including the Womens March. The suspicions of him being a Nazi collaborator is also noted. 
“Dear Democrats, Please Stop Protesting on Behalf of Insane Billionaires and Globalist Corporations”  https://medium.com/@trentlapinski/dear-democrats-please-stop-protesting-on-behalf-of-insane-billionaires-and-globalist-corporations-b4e7f21651a4
Peter Corey Added Feb 15, 2017 - 4:18am
>California pretty consistently takes one of the highest amounts of refugees
 
California also has the nation's largest welfare population.
 
Hmmm. I wonder if the promise of welfare payments and social safety net programs in California act as a lure for many refugees. And I wonder if the tacit understanding — the implicit "deal" — between leftist state politicians in California and refugees who immigrate there is, "We'll provide the funding for welfare and social safety net programs; you provide the voting bloc."
 
Ya think?
Mike Haluska Added Feb 15, 2017 - 8:52am
Peter - good post!  Of course government "entitlements" are a big lure used by the Democratic Party.  Despite their claims that "undocumented" (trnsalation: ILLEGAL) workers get no benefits, they know the opposite is true.  Ask the Democrats why it's OK to require illegal aliens to get a Drivers License while US citizens are NOT required.  The reason?  over half of the states only require a photo ID to vote - so the Dem's have been rounding up illegals for DECADES to vote!
Corey Goldstone Added Feb 15, 2017 - 12:03pm
Is the resignation of the National Security Adviser not fair grounds for press questions? Or is it like you said with a broad sweeping brush "fake news innuendo?" To most people, it's concerning that Flynn lied to the Vice President about his calls to Russia during the previous administration. It's also concerning that Flynn was susceptible to blackmail by Russia. It's very concerning that Flynn received payments from Russia in 2015. Calling anything you don't like to hear fake news and then challenging the credibility of the media - when they ask legitimate questions - will only get you so far. 
Robert Potter Added Feb 15, 2017 - 12:24pm
Peter Corey: Maybe that's because they have the largest population of any state by at least ten million, so wouldn't it make sense that they have the largest "welfare" population. Is that really a surprise? 

Mike Haluska: You really believe that Democrats have been rounding up illegal immigrants to vote in elections on a large scale? 

I just wanted to make sure you realize how absolutely ridiculous that sounds. If you truly believe that, where's the proof? There has never been any proof of voter fraud beyond infinitesimally small numbers.  
Stone-Eater Friedli afronum Added Feb 15, 2017 - 1:14pm
wealthy socialists
 
...is an oxymoron as per definition of "socialist" LOL
Stone-Eater Friedli afronum Added Feb 15, 2017 - 1:19pm
Soros is not a socialist. He's one of the people who believe in a society where gender, culture and language are eradicated in favor of a "universal" human being.
 
When everybody is the SAME, it's much easier to rule and control. People live on debates and different POV's, and when that's gone, IDENTITY is lost, and the herd of sheep will be world-spanning.
 
In our digital world that's possible - and under construction. What's the difference between an African with an iCrap and an European ? Nada, zilch. They both make selfies, read the same papers online, listen to the same music and wear the same brands....
Mike Haluska Added Feb 15, 2017 - 3:01pm
Robert - your challenge:
 
"Mike Haluska: You really believe that Democrats have been rounding up illegal immigrants to vote in elections on a large scale? 

I just wanted to make sure you realize how absolutely ridiculous that sounds. If you truly believe that, where's the proof? There has never been any proof of voter fraud beyond infinitesimally small numbers."
 
indicates you are one of the "under-informed" in our country.  Did you not see the video of a Democratic party official bragging about breaking election laws and busing in people from Iowa?
 
http://www.npr.org/2016/10/19/498587397/sting-video-purports-to-show-democrats-describing-how-to-commit-voter-fraud
 
How about the results of Jill Stein's Michigan vote recount?  It turns out in Wayne County alone over 300,000 fraudulent votes . . . it was getting so embarrassing that a Democratic Judge ordered the recount halted!
 
And why the double standard regarding Voter Photo ID?  EVERYBODY knows that the Democrats hate this because they can't have busloads of people going from precinct to precinct voting multiple times.  In Chicago it is so well known and accepted that the mantra is "Vote early and vote often".  Hell - the dead have been voting in Chicago for 70 years!!!  But wait - the Democrats are ALL FOR ILLEGALS GETTING DRIVERS LICENSES!!!  Why????  Because in over half the states all you need to vote is a - you guessed it - Drivers License!!!
 
Use your common sense - if 3,000,000 conservative engineers were trying to get in the US illegally do you think the Democratic Party would be rushing to get them in????
 
   
Robert Potter Added Feb 15, 2017 - 3:28pm
Mike - Get better sources. 

You're really going to use a Project Veritas video as proof? Setting aside the fact that the video doesn't actually show any evidence of election fraud, it is was made by John O'Keefe, a guy who is a known hoax. There is plenty of proof of him taking quotes far out of context, heavily editing his videos and all around deceiving his viewers.  
 
Here is a relevant snopes article for more details. 

As for your second accusation, that has been clearly disproven too. It was an error on the part of machines and poll workers. It was not the result of more people voting than the amount of registered voters in Wayne County. It was human error. It wasn't a super secret plot by the Democrats to win elections. 

Relevant snopes article

Nah, Republicans don't want these laws because they are scared of poor citizens voting against them. 
 
Mike Haluska Added Feb 15, 2017 - 3:36pm
Robert - I just love how a Democrat can be captured live on video, and because the guy didn't know he was being filmed it becomes a "hoax"!  You guys are pathetic when it comes to the crap you'll pull to win an election.  I could show you a video of Hillary Clinton stuffing her "pant suit" with cash from Arabs and you guys would say "See - this proves Hillary had nothing to do with accepting bribes from Arabs".
 
You can "edit out" things people say in videos - you can't "edit in" things people say.  I suppose the woman from Planned Parenthood bragging about paying for her sports car with the proceeds from human baby limbs and organs was "just a little misunderstanding"????
Corey Goldstone Added Feb 15, 2017 - 3:40pm
Mike, if you want proof that Republicans have no evidence about these claims about widespread voter fraud, watch this video of Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach - one of the most ardent supporters of voter ID laws - embarrassed because he has no evidence. This is simply not a rampant problem.
Mike Haluska Added Feb 15, 2017 - 3:40pm
Robert - your other statement:
 
"It was an error on the part of machines and poll workers. It was not the result of more people voting than the amount of registered voters in Wayne County."
 
is so Frakkin' preposterous I am amazed you admit to buying it!  So if a bank teller "miscounts" the till and takes home an extra $150,000 it's not fraud - it's an "error"!!!!  There weren't more votes, the poll workers just made a "mistake". 
 
And using "Snopes" to prove anything against the Democrats is like asking Bill Clinton to check for stains on blue dresses!!! 
Mike Haluska Added Feb 15, 2017 - 3:44pm
Robert - you still haven't explained the Voter Photo ID Double Standard!
 
Why do Democrats OPPOSE photo ID for US citizens but SUPPORT giving photo ID to people who are HERE ILLEGALLY??? 
 
And the very people promoting and carrying out voter fraud in big cities claiming that there is "no evidence" of massive voter fraud ISN'T PROOF OF ANYTHING!!!!
Robert Potter Added Feb 15, 2017 - 3:56pm
Mike - I'll quote your own article. 


Unaware that he was being recorded by a hidden camera, Foval appeared to walk through how operatives could commit voter fraud by shipping in out-of-state people to vote. "You can prove conspiracy if there's a bus," he says at one point. "If there are cars, it's much harder to prove."

Keyword is COULD. He was talking about a hypothetical situation. I'll repeat my statement: Get better sources! 

Just for fun, I'll quote your NPR article again. 

"The videos are edited, and O'Keefe and Project Veritas have a history of selectively — and at times misleadingly — editing their videos. While they have previously posted raw footage, they have not done so with these latest stings."
 
As per your other comment, 

You sure love false equivalencies, huh? 

Let me fix that for you. It's more like a bank teller miscounting the money, realizing they overestimated the amount of money, and then fixing it. 

The key distinction between all of this though is that there wasn't some wide-scale effort by unregistered voters to cast votes in Wayne County. It was a mistake made by the machines and the poll workers. I think you just disproved your own point. 


 
Robert Potter Added Feb 15, 2017 - 3:58pm
Mike - burden proof? 

Since when does anyone have a requirement to prove a negative? 

The burdens on you, bud. Not me. 
Mike Haluska Added Feb 15, 2017 - 4:32pm
Robert - do you comprehend simple English, because basic logic and reason escapes you!  Nobody claimed the Democrat was caught riding a busload of fraudulent voters!  The Democrat explained (hell, bragged) about the necessity to break laws and ignore required legal voting procedures and keep on busing people in to vote. 
 
And your "analogy" of:
"It's more like a bank teller miscounting the money, realizing they overestimated the amount of money, and then fixing it."
 is pure bullshit.  There wasn't any "noble" worker that double-checked the vote tally and found a "mistake" on their own volition and corrected it!!!  No, this time the "teller" stole from the bank, hid the money and AFTER A COURT ORDERED AUDIT magically "found" the money and put it back!  It's like Hillary "apologizing" after she gets caught lying about the private email server.
 
And for your own education, "proving a negative" is like a Christian challenging an Atheist to prove God DOES NOT EXIST.  I didn't ask you to prove that voter fraud doesn't exist, did I????  NO - I provided the proof to you and you can't refute it with any logical explanation.  Your "explanations" requires the same level of naivete as believing Hillary when she said she NEVER got a classified email on her server!
Robert Potter Added Feb 15, 2017 - 5:45pm
Mike - Get better sources. 

Your sources are sketchy at best, and outright false at worst. 

The burden of proof is on you, man, and so far you have failed. 

Try again!
Peter Corey Added Feb 15, 2017 - 9:29pm
>Maybe that's because they have the largest population of any state by at least ten million, so wouldn't it make sense that they have the largest "welfare" population. Is that really a surprise?
 
California has 12% of the nation's population and 33% of its welfare recipients. As of 2015, it had the 2nd-highest U6 unemployment rate of 12.7% (the highest U6 unemployment rate at the time was Nevada with 13.9%).
 
Instead of denial and excuses, why not practice honesty by admitting the obvious: social safety net programs provide a powerful incentive for immigrants to move into the state; in return, they comprise an ever-growing voting bloc to maintain leftist politicians in power. That's not too hard to grasp, is it?
 
And there's no reason to put scare-quotes around the word welfare.
James E. Unekis Added Feb 15, 2017 - 10:01pm
Mike,
You, my sir, are a true man.  The type of man that tells the truth, clearly, articulately, and frequently.  You are not intimidated by children (old or young) who are threatening liars and perverts and anarchists.
 
The truth is with the conservatives and as the left degenerate into further name-calling and descend into crime to enforce their failing views.  They will eventually bet met with overwhelming force.  They are not allowed to beat people nor destroy the property of those that hold a dissenting opinion to their own.
 
So I applaud you.  I write when I get a chance but you are dealing with this on a daily basis and I, for one, appreciate it.
J. Riddle Added Feb 15, 2017 - 10:12pm
Brylar and Robert have ably destroyed some of Haluska's false assertions here. I've just put up an article of my own on the James O'Keefe/Project Veritas nonsense that goes into much more detail about what a con-job that was.
Peter Corey Added Feb 15, 2017 - 10:57pm
>Here is a relevant snopes article for more details.
 
You're really going to use an article from Snopes.com to cast doubt on someone else's source? Pot-kettle-black. "Snopes" is a well-known mouthpiece for the far left. See this link.
 
http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/17/fact-checking-snopes-websites-political-fact-checker-is-just-a-failed-liberal-blogger/
 
"Snopes’ main political fact-checker is a writer named Kim Lacapria. Before writing for Snopes, Lacapria wrote for Inquisitr, a blog that — oddly enough — is known for publishing fake quotes and even downright hoaxes as much as anything else.
 
While at Inquisitr, the future “fact-checker” consistently displayed clear partisanship.
 
She described herself as “openly left-leaning” and a liberal . . ."
 
Etc.
J. Riddle Added Feb 15, 2017 - 11:03pm
"You're really going to use an article from Snopes.com to cast doubt on someone else's source?"
 
If you're going to check facts, a fact-checker with a good reputation, like Snopes, is a good place to start. If you have some case against their work on this matter, it's incumbent upon you to make it. A smear-piece from the Daily Caller won't do it.
Peter Corey Added Feb 15, 2017 - 11:54pm
>If you're going to check facts, a fact-checker with a good reputation, like Snopes, is a good place to start.
 
Snopes doesn't have a good reputation with me or anyone I know. It seems "good reputation" is in the eye of the beholder.
 
The point of the Boston Globe article linked above is that Snopes's "fact checking" is larded thick with opinion skewed left.
J. Riddle Added Feb 16, 2017 - 12:15am
Your Daily Caller piece--it's the Daily Caller, not the Boston Globe--is a hatchet-job pulled on a single Snopes employee. Its big argument is that the lady in question has liberal views. It doesn't offer any substantial examples of her getting things factually inacurate and it doesn't address any of the Snopes articles to which Robert linked earlier--not one. Whle errors will sometimes occur in any press outlet, you're not going to be able to point to any article showing any pattern of deceptions and inaccuracies from Snopes because there aren't any such articles. Because Snopes has earned its great reputation as a fact-checker.
 
The articles to which Robert linked debunked your own false assertions by simply consulting the basic reporting on the matters in contention from the Washington Post, Politico, the New York Post, the Columbia Journalism Review, Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting, the New Yorker, the Detroit News and the Detroit Free Press, quoting from all of them and providing links so the reader can check it out for himself.
J. Riddle Added Feb 16, 2017 - 12:18am
American rightists have been conditioned by the right-wing Rage Machine to react with hostility toward even the idea of an objective fact; all you've offered so far is an example of your programming.
James E. Unekis Added Feb 16, 2017 - 8:23am
Anyone can reference any damn thing they want on the web and everybody knows it.  Some of us have resorted to our own judgement which is not "sourced" by some PHD without the life experiences that I have had.  You can find experts to back whatever you want but we are not learning how to write little research papers for life 101 that tells the professor that some other source somewhere agrees with his or her world view.
 
I've watched the both the left and the right turn this country into a crazy-land from what once was a wonderful place.
 
The left wants to enforce their view of reality by expanding taxes and the right has become fueled by GREED alone.
 
I'm disgusted by greed but I am also disgusted by liberals who can't fathom that they don't own the truth and that we have a new president. 
 
So before you go on an endless "source battle" and making blanket claims to the truth let us try to work together as a nation and at least give the President a chance.  
 
Sadly it looks like we may end up in a civil war because the right is not going to "source" everything to every liberal who found a source on CNN and demands that the president change his course because they disagree.
 
If he turns out to be like Bush and only cares about the super-wealthy then I will join you in fighting him.  Until then he appears to be concerned about people like me and millions of others who are tired of endless taxes and bowing down to our enemies while our corporations send their jobs to slave labor in other countries.
Mike Haluska Added Feb 16, 2017 - 8:34am
Riddle - the "Rage Machine" was designed, assembled, operated and maintained entirely by the Democrats!!!  NEVER has a party gone so completely off the ranch after losing an election - and after accusing Trump of not accepting the election results!!!
Mike Haluska Added Feb 16, 2017 - 10:00am
James - thank you for your praise and encouragement.  My advice and plea to you is to continue to look these cowards in the eye and NEVER let your fear of "offending someone" influence your core values and beliefs.  You know in your heart what you truly are - don't be like so many politicians who are afraid to speak out against nonsense because they don't want to be labeled a "XYZ-Phobe". 
It's getting to the point where we need a Frakkin' "Special People Glossary" nowadays to keep track of all the groups that are offended by anything and everything!
Bill H. Added Feb 16, 2017 - 12:10pm
 
I sensed from the beginning of Trump's campaign that it was based on hate and negativity. There was also no indication whatsoever that he wanted to put forth any effort in uniting the country (let alone the world) in any positive efforts.
After his election, he proved my thoughts by creating the "Cabinet From Hell" that would stamp out all gains and accomplishments from "the other side" simply as a slap in the face in retaliation. He has been planning to create his own news outlet even prior to the election and very recently has been making some moves to control the Voice of America after Congress moved to eliminate the board of directors that had served as an integrity check on the organization, instead consolidating power with a CEO position appointed by the president according to an article in Politico and some buzz in a couple communications industry email blurbs.
It seems that as I also observed, he is only interested in bettering his own empire, improving his own self image, and exercising control without teamwork or reason. He has no desire whatsoever in reuniting the country, but only further separating us.
Sadly, I believe that the ones who will suffer the worst are those who put forth the most effort during his campaign, the Average American.
I have always been and always will be in support of a Party that can see the big picture and unite the country as a whole by gaining the support and agreement of the large majority of citizens based on being open and logical on all issues. As this country further divides, this will become almost impossible if we stay on the present course.
Ironically, what we now face may hopefully be the catalyst that makes us all take a look at where we are and make a quick turn for the better. 
Mike Haluska Added Feb 16, 2017 - 12:56pm
Don't worry Bill, us average Americans are going to cry all the way to our high paid manufacturing jobs, the new home in a great neighborhood, on the way to drop off our kids at a great school WE CHOSE, and to the park in our safe neighborhood where our kids can play ball WITHOUT BEING SHOT!
 
Oh , the misery ahead . . . for establishment Democrats! 
Bill H. Added Feb 16, 2017 - 1:10pm
 
Mike, we would all just love what you describe to happen for sure!
This is what Trump used during his campaign, along with his gruff "charisma" to pull-in voters that believed everything he preached and what he claimed he would do.
I think we will all soon find out that his priorities are no where close to what he campaigned on.
James E. Unekis Added Feb 16, 2017 - 4:00pm
Mike,
You deserve encouragement.
 
I am done with the Tyranny and insanity of the left and I appreciate the consistent sanity that you bring to the table.
 
It looks like the idiot liberals and dangerous globalists won't stop even physical violence against someone who dares disagree but I'm not a spoiled little brat who is scared to say what he knows to be true after 56 years on this earth.
 
After being tormented by 4 teenagers on the Baltimore Subway I'd had enough and stood up and approached them.  Three scattered but one laid hands on me.  After I punched him in the face I grabbed his coat and held all four trapped in the back of the subway car until the police showed up and took them away.
 
I'm not scared of their name calling or their assaults.  Just because many politicians are nothing but feminized cowards doesn't mean that all of the men and women in this country are willing to roll over and surrender to their threats and violence.
 
Keep on speaking the truth because, frankly, they can't handle the truth.
Mike Haluska Added Feb 16, 2017 - 4:29pm
James - thanks again for your kind words and I applaud and appreciate your courage as well.  As far as politicians go, I am more convinced than ever that we need term limits.  When I listen to John McCain lately all I see is a bitter old man who is jealous of Trump and needs to be put out to pasture.  When I look at Speaker Ryan I see a spineless dweeb whose only objective is re-election.  I can already hear him rehearsing his "we need to put off (repeal Obamacare, tax cuts, etc. take your pick) until AFTER the 2018 election when we'll have a filibuster proof Senate." because he doesn't want to do anything that the Mainstream Media will criticize him for.
 
I would love to see Trump call every wishy-washy Republican Representative and Senator into the White House and tell them that if they don't get this legislation voted on and passed for his signature THIS YEAR he will personally go to their districts and find a young, courageous candidate he can put the full power of the presidency behind and endorse that guy in the Republican Primary!
Peter Corey Added Feb 16, 2017 - 10:39pm
>There is plenty of proof of him taking quotes far out of context, heavily editing his videos and all around deceiving his viewers.
 
Not for the videos in question. There are only accusations by Snopes. If you actually read the Snopes article, you'll see that it provides no concrete evidence of anything.

http://www.snopes.com/2016/10/18/project-veritas-election-videos/
by lefty Snopes blogger and sex-toy reviewer*, Kim LaCapria

According to LaCapria, the four videos in question comprise a ". . . constellation of allegations and assertions that is virtually impossible to fact check without complete clips of the involved conversations."
 
In other words, for whatever reason, NO fact-checking by Snopes was done because they found it "virtually impossible" to do so: it'll take too much time so we'll just assume whatever footage was left on the cutting-room floor contradicts or explains-away the footage that O'Keefe included in his final cut. LaCapria continues:
 
"Nearly all the videos used stitched-together, out-of-context remarks with no indication of what occurred or what was discussed just before and after the included portions."

There's plenty of context around the most damning remarks. All you have to do is actually watch the videos rather than taking Kim LaCapria's word for it. I'm not even too confident that Ms. LaCapria watched the videos. More:

"The framing and style of videos created by James O’Keefe is [sic] well known due to his 2009 'sting' in which he and accomplice Hannah Giles visited ACORN offices and pretended to be seeking advice on how to run an illegal business that included the use of underage girls in the sex trade. The resulting videos — which were edited to create the impression that O’Keefe and Giles had spoken to ACORN representatives while dressed as a pimp and prostitute — dealt that organization a mortal blow before reports publicizing the deception in O’Keefe’s videos came to light. . . "

LaCapria then quotes an archived blog article from the Columbia Journalism Review claiming that the 2009 "sting" video was deceptive because it falsely suggested Hannah Giles was dressed as a prostitute and James O'Keefe dressed as a pimp when they visited the ACORN office when, apparently, they were not dressed that way at all.
 
Wrong.
 
As the 2009 video clearly shows, Hannah Giles was, indeed, dressed provocatively as a hooker, and James O'Keefe doesn't appear in the undercover video at all. The shot of both of them walking into the ACORN office at 0:16 into the video show him dressed in white overalls and blue shirt. That's the only shot of him; otherwise, O'Keefe isn't in the video at all. As for Hannah Giles, she certainly looks as if she's dressed as a prostitute at 0:28. See the 2009 video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UOL9Jh61S8
ACORN Sting Video
 
Starting at 1:14 to 1:31 the style of the piece mimics a music video, with music in the background and 2 shots of O'Keefe absurdly dressed as a 1980s-style pimp: fur coat, hat, and cane. The short sequence is as clearly and obviously a satire as any SNL skit, but because it's intercut with actual reportage sting footage, dolts on the left claim the satirical moments "dishonestly suggest" that O'Keefe himself was dressed as a pimp during the clandestine conversation with the ACORN employees. The left is stupider than I thought. More:

Typical for those on the far left, LaCapria hauls in others from the far-left that appear "fair and balanced" to her. For example, she writes:

"The Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) organization also regularly covered O’Keefe’s efforts in 2011 and 2012, lamenting how often the details of the purported stings are misreported before being thoroughly investigated..."

FAIR?

FAIR was started in 1986 by radical activist Jeff Cohen who regards the Democratic Party as "right wing"; he prefers only radicals like himself. For FAIR's 15th anniversary celebration in 2002 (broadcast on radio), the keynote speaker was Noam Chomsky.

This doesn't bode well for being objective and unbiased, so FAIR's criticisms of O'Keefe's videos are hypocritical at the very least, as is LaCapria's mention of FAIR as an organization worthy of serious consideration for "vetting" O'Keefe's work.

LaCapria provides no concrete examples of expurgated context in O'Keefe's videos, merely saying:

"Projec
Peter Corey Added Feb 16, 2017 - 10:39pm
LaCapria provides no concrete examples of expurgated context in O'Keefe's videos, merely saying:

"Project Veritas’ October 2016 election-related sting videos (embedded above) reveal tidbits of selectively and (likely deceptively edited) footage absent of any context in which to evaluate them. Unless his organization releases the footage in full, undertaking a fair assessment of their veracity is all but impossible."

Even the first embedded video of Alan Schulkin is damning enough. He admits there's voter fraud in New York State; thousands of absentee ballots ("I don't know where they came from"); critically mentions Mayor DiBlasio's casual handing out of ID cards to people in lieu of their obtaining driver licenses and undergoing some kind of vetting; etc.

All you have to do is actually watch the video, rather than blindly follow whatever a dunce like Kim LaCapria arbitrarily asserts.
Peter Corey Added Feb 16, 2017 - 10:42pm
The sex-toy-reviewer reference above to Ms. LaCapria comes from here:
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4042194/Facebook-fact-checker-arbitrate-fake-news-accused-defrauding-website-pay-prostitutes-staff-includes-escort-porn-star-Vice-Vixen-domme.html

"EXCLUSIVE: Facebook 'fact checker' who will arbitrate on 'fake news' is accused of defrauding website to pay for prostitutes - and its staff includes an escort-porn star and 'Vice Vixen domme'
 
Facebook has announced plans to check for 'fake news' using a series of organizations to assess whether stories are true
One of them is a website called Snopes.com which claims to be one of the web's 'essential resources' and 'painstaking, scholarly and reliable'

It was founded by husband-and-wife Barbara and David Mikkelson, who used a letterhead claiming they were a non-existent society to start their research

Now they are divorced - with Barbara claiming in legal documents he embezzled $98,000 of company money and spent it on 'himself and prostitutes'

In a lengthy and bitter legal dispute he is claiming to be underpaid and demanding 'industry standard' or at least $360,000 a year.
Fact checker: Kim LaCapria is the principal fact checker at the website but also blogged as Vice Vixen and wrote about her 'domme' side and offered sex toy recommendations."
 
* * *
 
[Inspires a great deal of confidence in Snopes.com and its lead fact-checker, Kim LaCapria, no?]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4042194/Facebook-fact-checker-arbitrate-fake-news-accused-defrauding-website-pay-prostitutes-staff-includes-escort-porn-star-Vice-Vixen-domme.html#ixzz4YuQBE31s
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Cliff M. Added Feb 17, 2017 - 11:03am
Yesterday there was a good article about the Brownbach/Kansas tax cut disaster from 2012/13.These cuts which failed to produce growth or revenue have left the state with over a billion dollar deficit.The state legislature yesterday was within a vote or 2 of a veto proof proposal which would end all of the foolish policy and voodoo economics so prevalent in conservative tax cut mindset.Let's see if someone here can put some lipstick on this pig.
Mike Haluska Added Feb 17, 2017 - 11:43am
Cliff - there is one simple rule about taxation that every economist agrees on:
 
"If you tax something, you discourage its growth, tax it enough and you will kill it"
 
This is why I advocate the repeal of ALL INCOME TAX on businesses and individuals for the following reasons:
 
1) the resulting economic growth would surpass anything seen in the last 100 years, resulting in millions of high paying manufacturing jobs.  Every greedy capitalist pig in the world would be falling over themselves to build plants here.
2) the money saved by businesses no longer having to hire tax accountants, tax attorneys, lobbyists, etc. would be in the billions and would go directly to the bottom line.
3) Congress would finally stop the endless parade of "who pays how much" and the associated "Class Envy".
4) we could eliminate hundreds of separate taxes and consolidate them into a single Sales Tax that EVERYBODY PAYS - no way to dodge it.  With a single revenue source, Americans would know EXACTLY what their tax burden is and Congress couldn't hide taxes anymore in phone bills, utility bills, airline tickets, etc.
5) the poor would be protected by exempting the basic necessities (groceries, rent, clothing, medicine, etc.) from sales tax.  Over a few years, the economic growth would render the Welfare State obsolete, saving the government $$TRILLIONS.
6) there would be a drastically reduced number of government tax agents because a Sales Tax is so simple to administrate compared to income tax.
 
The only people that would object are those cashing in on the corrupt current income tax system.
Mike Haluska Added Feb 17, 2017 - 12:33pm
Bill H - if you agree that:
 
"Mike, we would all just love what you describe to happen for sure!"
 
why did you support the party that opposes school choice, wealth redistribution instead of wealth creation, bigger government, etc.???
Mike Haluska Added Feb 17, 2017 - 12:35pm
BTW, Project veritas never claimed to catch anyone in the act of loading up a bus or carload of fraudulent voters.  They did catch a guy ADMITTING it has been a common practice in the past and plans to continue doing it no matter what the law says!!!
 
With people like you, no wonder OJ got aquitted!!!
Peter Corey Added Feb 18, 2017 - 7:40am
>these cuts which failed to produce growth or revenue
 
We've been through this a dozen times in the past, Cliff M. You're wrong.
Cliff M. Added Feb 18, 2017 - 9:57am
Peter,How can you possibly deny the negative effects that Brownbachs policies have produced.Giving tax cuts to rich , wealthy people who are already rich have minimal effect other than padding their bank accounts and often leave large deficits .Why are tax cuts the only issue that conservatives feel are not needed to be paid for.The current idea of tax cuts and minimal spending increases is contrary to the approach Reagan used.Believing continued supply side is going to produce positive results is pure fantasy.The corporate owned politics is well on the way of ruining this country for a long time to come.
Mike Haluska Added Feb 20, 2017 - 9:06am
Cliff - use your common sense for a second.  How can taking money away from investors create more capital for investment?  How can punishing the reward for investment (dividends) help encourage investment?  Your whole argument is based on thing that has NOTHING to do with economics - CLASS ENVY!!!
Peter Corey Added Feb 20, 2017 - 9:52am
>How can you possibly deny the negative effects that Brownbachs policies have produced.
 
You're as dumb as a bag of hammers. Go drive some nails into a 2-by-4 and take a break from posting. You haven't learned a thing since you've been here.
Cliff M. Added Feb 20, 2017 - 10:45pm
Peter, Just the facts on the Kansas tax issue. End of argument.
 Mike, What have investors done since the recession with all of the favorable conditions they have been given? Why should we expect different in the continued low demand scenario?
Bill H. Added Feb 21, 2017 - 12:08am
 
They have all become "experts" on:
1. Pay employees the lowest wages possible and work them 24/7 by instilling the fear of loosing their jobs on a constant basis.
2. Do not reinvest in the employees or the company's infrastructure if at all possible
3. Work with other companies in the same arena to fix prices for goods and services as high as possible.
4. Move as many operations and profits offshore to keep operational costs low and avoid taxes.
Peter Corey Added Feb 21, 2017 - 12:34am
>Just the facts on the Kansas tax issue.
 
Already done several times in different threads. Your head is a sieve.
 
1. http://www.forbes.com/sites/rexsinquefield/2016/05/10/with-income-tax-eliminated-85-million-flows-into-kansas/#3b70c72b4b77
 
2. http://www.forbes.com/sites/rexsinquefield/2016/07/18/kansas-an-unsung-hero-for-economic-growth/#26216bdc5992
"Significantly, every year since the tax cuts were implemented, Kansas has surpassed the state record for new business formations. When we consider that startups have decreased nationwide since the Great Recession of 2008, this achievement is particularly remarkable."
 
3. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/435288/kansas-tax-cuts-growth-result
 
4. https://www.alec.org/app/uploads/2016/04/2016-RSPS-Final_WEB.pdf
"Rich States, Poor States" (search for references to "Kansas")
 
5. https://www.wsj.com/articles/seeded-with-tax-cuts-kansas-harvests-the-benefits-1431729743
"Seeded with Tax Cuts, Kansas Harvests the Benefits"
 
• In March 2013, unemployment in Kansas stood at 5.5%. It has since dropped to 4.2%, tied for 14th lowest in the country.
 
• From 1998-2012, Kansas ranked 38th in private-sector job growth, according Bureau of Labor Statistics data crunched by the Kansas Policy Institute. In 2013—the first year after the tax reform—the state climbed to 27th place, and in 2014 it moved to 21st, placing it in the top half of states.
 
• In the second half of 2014, hourly wages in Kansas grew 3.5%, according to BLS data, far faster than the national average of 1.9%.
 
Then there is the Kansas City metropolitan area, a living laboratory that straddles the border with Missouri. On Mr. Brownback’s side of the divide, the top personal income-tax rate is now 4.9%, beginning at $15,000 for single filers; in Missouri the top 6% rate starts at $9,000.
 
“I just think Kansas City is a great study,” the governor says. “This is an unusual place, where you’ve got a city virtually equally divided between two states.” The results? Over the past two calendar years, private-sector jobs increased by 5.6% on the Kansas side and only 2.2% on the Missouri. In the same period hourly wages grew $1.22 on the Kansas side, compared with $0.61 on the Missouri side.
 
Patti Bossert, who owns two employment agencies in Topeka, estimates the tax cuts saved her firms $40,000 last year. Seeing a windfall on its way, she spent $375,000 to buy and remodel an old building for a new company headquarters. “Our business has been phenomenal,” she says. “Wages are going up, and the big problem now is that there are many more available job openings than there are qualified people to fill them.”
 
* * *
 
[The test of success for a tax-cut policy is not whether it helps to grow state budgets, but whether or not it helps individuals in the private sector. They're the ones who work and create wealth; they're the ones who, by right, ought to keep their wealth to make use of it as they see fit.]
Peter Corey Added Feb 21, 2017 - 1:11am
>This is why I advocate the repeal of ALL INCOME TAX on businesses and individuals
 
Concur. And a modest first step might be a new Constitutional Amendment repealing the 16th Amendment.
 
I think a second step might be another new Constitutional Amendment repealing the 17th Amendment (regarding the popular vote for senators. The original idea of the Framers for senators was that they were the representatives of each state's governor and state legislature within the federal government — since the governors themselves were too busy governing their own states — and were supposed to be mere appointees by the state legislatures for that purpose. They were never meant to be "mini-presidents", voted in by a state's plurality, and subject to special interests and various factions.).
Cliff M. Added Feb 21, 2017 - 8:08am
So Peter according to you the tax cuts were a windfall. Now how is the $1.2 BILLION Dollar deficit that was created dealt with or is the Cheney mode of deficits don't matter now in effect? How about getting current on the $real costs of the Brownbach tax cuts.
Cliff M. Added Feb 21, 2017 - 8:21am
Peter, How about singing a different tune other than tax cuts for the wealthy.The articles you submitted are little more than right wing propaganda with minimal substance.A extreme ,one sided point of view.
Mike Haluska Added Feb 21, 2017 - 9:41am
Cliff - CHENEY . . . really???? 
Cliff M. Added Feb 21, 2017 - 10:00am
Bill H, Thanks for being one of the few here capable of seeing "The Big Picture".
Mike, What happened? I thought Cheney was a conservative idol?
Mike Haluska Added Feb 21, 2017 - 2:27pm
Cliff - if we're going back in time, why stop at Cheney?  Let's get in our "Wayback Machine" and demonize John Rockefeller!!!
Cliff M. Added Feb 21, 2017 - 2:57pm
Mike, Why do deficits only matter when a Democrat is in the White house?Eisenhower was the last fiscally responsible republican in the White House.The current republican congress is a joke. I hope your right and something positive happens for the majority. Being highly skeptical of the corporate owned republican party it would be a huge surprise. I voted for Trump but have ZERO faith that the republican congress is capable of anything but catering to their own self interest's.
Peter Corey Added Feb 21, 2017 - 8:02pm
>Now how is the $1.2 BILLION Dollar deficit that was created dealt with
 
The people of Kansas don't have a "deficit." Only the state government does. So what. The primary idea of tax cuts is to let the people in the private sector who create the wealth, keep their wealth. So the people don't have a "deficit"; they have a windfall. The secondary idea of tax cuts is precisely to channel less money to government to play with, and to shrink the public sector; i.e., "Starve the Beast."
Peter Corey Added Feb 21, 2017 - 8:11pm
>How about singing a different tune other than tax cuts for the wealthy.
 
"Tax cuts for the wealthy" is a buzz-phrase of the far left. You might as well carp about "Low prices of smart-phones for the wealthy"; why should the super-rich pay the same price for an iPhone as someone in the middle-class or lower-middle class? Why should the super-rich pay the same low price for a gallon of milk as the super-poor when the former can obviously afford to pay much more? If you don't believe in discriminatory pricing of consumption goods (low prices for the poor; high prices for the exact same products for the rich) then you have no moral case for demanding discriminatory taxation. Ideally, there should be a flat tax, where everyone pays exactly the same percentage. 
 
>The articles you submitted are little more than right wing propaganda with minimal substance.A extreme ,one sided point of view.
 
Wrong. They actually just presented the facts on how much better individual Kansans are doing when taxes are low, as opposed to how much worse state government is doing. But since one of the main purposes of the tax cuts is to "starve the beast", i.e., shrink the size of state government and the state public sector, then who really cares if there's a so-called "deficit"? Most Kansans don't. I don't. If someone in Kansas state government is concerned, then he should urge his state government to do the only thing to "deal with" the so-called deficit: DEMAND THAT THE KANSAS STATE GOVERNMENT SPEND LESS.
 
Cliff M. Added Feb 22, 2017 - 9:28am
Peter, What have we learned historically about spending money on tax cuts and running up large deficits from them? Middle ground should be the goal. Not one extreme or the other. Which of the references you have used is other than the right wing conservative view point? Responsible tax cuts are understandable. Extreme cuts are not.During the periods of the best sustained growth in the past tax rates were much higher than the current situation.Where is the real equallibrium?What have low tax rates and historically low interest rates accomplished since the recession? A stock market that has tripled and little else. All of these favorable conditions for the investor class and business have produced little more than massive speculation in the Wall Street casino with only meager gains going to Main Street.Bleeding the revenues from state government eventually comes back to bight you on the ass and cost's more in the long run.
Mike Haluska Added Feb 22, 2017 - 10:35am
Cliff - I can always spot a person who has never owned a small business a mile away by their total misunderstanding of where wealth comes from and how it is created.  You socialists have no idea how to create wealth - just stupid schemes to confiscate and redistribute it.
Cliff M. Added Feb 22, 2017 - 11:02am
Mike, I have been self employed since the early 80's.The current situation that is so stacked against small business is a totally different issue than the large corporations that are well on their way to monopolizing every thing they can including government policy.The cost of starting a new business has become impossible for most with opportunities dwindling. The redistribution of wealth  from the bottom to the top has been going on for a long time especially since Reagan.You can call me what you want. I am just a person who has seen the lives of the middle class deteriorate and turn to shit in real time. It is time for the wealthy to get off their high horses and give something back to this country which they have prospered immensely from. In the last 30 years the cost of everything has tripled while wages have only made minimal gains. This path is unsustainable.
Mike Haluska Added Feb 22, 2017 - 11:43am
Cliff - I hear you!  It's not the "wealthy" that are denying us opportunity - it is the government acting at the behest of "Crony Capitalists".  Trump is exactly right when he wants American manufacturing to STAY in this country and employ Americans.  We are cannibalizing our society by allowing manufacturing to fire Americans, make products elsewhere and then expect to resell them in America!!!  What I can't understand is how American corporations can be so stupid.  Who is going to buy their products after they have fired them?
 
When Henry Ford built a plant overseas, he sold the output in that market.  Ford didn't build cars in Ireland just so he could ship them back to the US for sale here!!!  By building the cars in Ireland and paying a good wage, he created a new market for his products!  Ford's senior management needs to read old man Henry's book!  By building plants in Mexico and paying a good wage, the Mexicans workers could afford their products and increase the standard of living for all of Mexico - no need to immigrate to America!!!
Mike Haluska Added Feb 22, 2017 - 11:46am
Cliff - I have a question regarding your belief:
 
"The redistribution of wealth  from the bottom to the top has been going on for a long time especially since Reagan."
 
If the people at the bottom have no wealth (by definition) how do wealthy people "redistribute" it from the bottom to the top?  You can't take something from somebody that they don't have!
Cliff M. Added Feb 22, 2017 - 12:04pm
Mike, Why have the vast majority of gains over the last 30 or so years gone to the top while the average worker has seen stagnation? Do you think economic and fiscal policy may have something to do with this? Why has the middle continued to shrink while the bottom and top continue to grow?
Cliff M. Added Feb 22, 2017 - 12:18pm
Mike, When an economy becomes dominated by the Financial industry like the U.S. has everything else becomes less important. Their short term gain for long term pain approach is destroying the fabric of many American lives.Their value to shareholder approach has left a lot of blood on the rocks.
 Like many in my shoes what used to be discretionary income to save or use for vacation has turned into enough to pay the rent and keep the lights on.A soft economy with weak demand with an abundance of illegal labor which should have been acted on long ago allows these conditions to persist.There is a reason these conditions continue to prevail and it is not for the welfare of the majority.There is a point where cost cutting does a lot more harm than good.
Mike Haluska Added Feb 22, 2017 - 2:04pm
Cliff - the answer to your question:
 
"Why have the vast majority of gains over the last 30 or so years gone to the top while the average worker has seen stagnation?"
 
has to do with the type of income.  Wealthy individuals typically hold assets (stocks, companies, bonds) that produce dividends or capital gains.  Us regular Joe's derive our income from salaries or wages - called ordinary income.  When you attain a certain level of wealth, your money "works for you" and you don't need a "job" that pays a wage. 
Cliff M. Added Feb 22, 2017 - 2:18pm
How much longer do you think the majority will allow the blatant abuse of the political system by the special interest's for their own personal gain at the expense of everyone else?
Peter Corey Added Feb 22, 2017 - 8:43pm
>During the periods of the best sustained growth in the past tax rates were much higher than the current situation.
 
When tax rates were much higher in the US, there were also far more loop-holes and deductions that taxpayers could exploit, which is actually what led to the sustained growth you claim to admire. Though official tax rates were higher in the past, the EFFECTIVE tax rate — the rate that taxpayers actually paid after exploiting loop-holes and deductions — was far lower.
 
Let's see, I think that's the 10th time I've made that point, and lefties like you are still in denial over it. The truth is, you big crybaby, you have absolutely nothing to contribute to this discussion except to whine that "things were better in the past", or "things are better in other countries," both of which are wrong.
Cliff M. Added Feb 23, 2017 - 7:24am
Peter, A funny comment from a narrow minded , ideological stick in the mud.You can beat your dead horse analogy as long as you want but it does not change the results of years of policy that caters only to the select few.
Mike Haluska Added Feb 27, 2017 - 10:43am
Cliff - let me try and 'splain something to you.
 
1) Rich people pay taxes, lots of taxes . . . because they have INCOME.
 
2) Poor people get more back from the government than they put in (Earned Income Tax Credit) . . . because they little or no INCOME.
 
So explain to me how the people paying 85% of the tax load are screwing the bottom 40% who pay NOTHING or get MORE REFUNDED THAN THEY PAID IN????
 
 
Cliff M. Added Feb 27, 2017 - 1:10pm
Mike, If the people at the top who have collected over 90% of the income gains in the recent past they are going to have to shoulder the burden of taxes or this country will continue to deteriorate. There is a reason many pay no taxes. The income imbalance along with fiscal policy has created a huge distortion.Under the current setup the burden on the wealthy will only continue to grow. The middle class beat down has done a lot more harm than the experts are willing to admit. There is an old saying "You can't get blood out of a rock".During the Eisenhower years the top tax rate was 91% and it was the longest most widespread period of income gains for the majority in the history of the U.S..

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