If Trump Is Impeached

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by Billy Roper


A standing Senator, Fauxcohantas, having to be censured from speaking during one nominee’s proceedings due to her remarks against another Senator (Sessions); and another cabinet member (De Vos) having to be squeaked by through an unprecedented tie-breaking vote by the Vice President, does not portend well for the new administration. Two female Republican Senators voted with their colleagues from across the aisle, to make that necessary.


President Trump’s current Supreme Court nominee to replace the deceased Antonin Scalia, Neil Gorsuch, is an establishment elitist, but the controlled media fake news mill still went after him viciously from the gate, making up a patently untrue story about Gorsuch starting a ‘Fascism Forever’ club in school. They did this not because they oppose him and his views per se, because even though he’s not as conservative as Scalia was, he is technically just filling that vacant seat. His entry to the nine chairs won’t really shift the original balance of power, with four hard-core leftists still at the highest bench. But next year when Justice Kennedy retires there will be a real battle, because if Trump nominates a conservative, or even a moderate, then a whole list of issues may be potentially revisited and liberal rulings overturned, from gun control and affirmative action to hate speech and hate crime laws, gay marriage, and abortion, not to mention immigration. And in order to avoid having the alternate media of the internet and the loyal opposition claim that thy are targeting that nominee unfairly, probably Thomas Hardiman, the Democrats led by (((Schumer))) are setting the precedent now for already using the nuclear option. Hardiman, by the way, is way left of center on immigration issues, so keep an eye on him for that.


Fun Fact: If approved, Gorsuch would be the only White Anglo-Saxon Protestant Male on the Supreme Court. There currently are NONE representing the demographic which founded this nation.


That’s all assuming,of course, that there even IS a next year, for Trump. The resignation of National Security Advisor Michael Flynn after a month in his high-ranking position smells like blood in the water for the enemies of the new administration. Liberal Republican Senators like “Hanoi John” McCain, Lindsey Graham, Susan Collins, Ben Sasse, and Jeff Flake are already nibbling at the edges, making anti-administration media statements and looking for cracks to take advantage of. It’s not as if Flynn, as National Security Advisor, promised to have sanctions lifted, or could have reasonably promised to try to have sanctions lifted. As we saw with Trump’s Indian with a dot United Nations ambassador pick’s first day at the home of the blue berets, the White House is actually, all rhetoric aside, taking a hard line against Russia when it comes to the Ukraine, so nobody seriously thinks that the President even wants to unilaterally lift the sanctions. That’s not how you do business, by giving away a bargaining chip for free. Now, Trump MIGHT remove or lessen the sanctions in exchange for, say, Russia getting the U.S. a seat at the negotiating table currently deciding how to divide up Syria, where they and Iran and Turkey have out the knives, already, and our absence is an international embarrassment inherited from Obama. But neither he nor Flynn would say that over a Russian ambassador’s telephone line monitored by the intelligence agencies of a half dozen or more different countries. They’d have to earn it, first. That’s how you do business.


No, the issue with Flynn is that his discussion of the sanctions, while minor, was denied, which was a larger issue, and repeated by Pence, which is the biggest deal about the otherwise minor scandal. That shows that President Trump isn’t the only person in those meetings with a sensitive ego, then, because you can bet that it was Pence who called for Flynn’s resignation, for making the V.P.look bad. Requiring Flynn’s head on a platter was a short-sighted, fragile prestige act to cover a moment of chagrin that should have been ridden out like all of the other short-news-cycle dramas, which have been buried one after another by the next day’s controlled media hissy fit. What it shows, is vulnerability. The tough nomination fights and the early resignation encourage more left-wing establishment Republicans to jump ship and oppose Trump. That matters now, it will matter more when his administration sponsors bills with a narrow margin for victory, and will matter the most when, not if, the Democrats bring impeachment proceedings forward, a few months down the road. Enough GOP lawmakers may switch teams to make the difference in those votes, if there are more scandals and signs of weakness like this.


Can the controlled media and liberals in D.C. take down a sitting President? I don’t know, ask Checkers.


If Donald Trump was impeached by Democrats and enough left-wing and moderate Republicans, how would a President Pence govern?


It may be that, even though Flynn gave Pence “incomplete” information about whether his phone call with the Russian ambassador discussed sanctions against Russia, and Pence then repeated that assertion, they might not go after the Vice President. After all, he’s more of an establishment insider and would play the beltway game. Such a deeply wounded administration would be weakened, and might have to go along with D.C. politics. It would be a one term, lame duck administration all the way until 2020, when ongoing demographic shifts in favor of the nonWhite population would practically guarantee a Democratic victory. But what would the result be of a Trump impeachment and removal from office, outside of Washington?


Millions of Whites, the core of Trump’s support, would cry foul at minimum, and probably some would do more. Imagine if the people who actually don’t hate guns started rioting? Imagine all the people…you may say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one.


Robert Potter Added Feb 15, 2017 - 8:58pm
I can't quite tell if you're in favor of Trump getting impeached or not. It'll be real interesting to see how this plays out, though. Apparently, there are others in the Trump circle who have had repeated contact with Russian officials over the past year despite denying it repeatedly. If I had to guess, Democrats and the media will be coming at Trump with a vengeance. 
George N Romey Added Feb 15, 2017 - 9:15pm
Robert I think the Democratic Party won't do anything UNLESS the American people turn on Trump.  The Democratic Party is full of wimps (as so is the GOP). 
Robert Potter Added Feb 15, 2017 - 9:24pm
George, very true! It's really up to the American people to force Congress' hand. Interesting times our ahead of us. 
EXPAT Added Feb 15, 2017 - 9:30pm
Unfortunately Billy. You are quite correct. The 9th. circuit court will entertain impeachment based on Campaign Rhetoric, (I should have capitalized Entertain) just as they did on the Extreme Vetting Executive Order.
My enthusiasm for an enlightened Trump is fading fast, and I am afraid you were right all along. The ultimate will be riots in the streets, and Marshall Law.
EXPAT Added Feb 15, 2017 - 9:56pm
When the Rule of Law is subverted for Political Purpose. The Law of the Jungle will take its place.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Feb 15, 2017 - 10:14pm
DUHmericans love war so much they have gone to war against themselves. Its great to see. 
Billy Roper Added Feb 16, 2017 - 8:25am
Robert, I take it as a compliment that you can't tell from the article whether I want Trump to be impeached. That means I presented the facts and potentialities well. Our media should also be ambiguous as to their bias. I want what is best for my people. Right now, that means balkanization. However we get there, is the best outcome.
Billy Roper Added Feb 16, 2017 - 8:47am
EXPAT, we will see, won't we? It's hard to not underestimate people's cowardice or stupidity, in general.
Thomas Sutrina Added Feb 16, 2017 - 9:01am
So long as the GOP controls one house of congress then they will be the deciding factor.  Do you trust Mc Connell or Ryan, that is the question?
Mike Haluska Added Feb 16, 2017 - 9:51am
The "Progressives" have now passed beyond any hope of redemption and have decayed into rabid mental masturbation.  If you guys don't get over your election losses, honestly evaluate your platform, LISTEN to average Americans (not just other "progressives) you have a chance over the next 30 or so years to escape your near non-existent nationwide participation rate of 22% and become relevant again. 
How bad is it for the Democrats? 
The main tool of the "Progressives" (SCOTUS) will have 3 judges replaced by Trump in the next few years - no more "legislation from the bench".  Democrats have 25 of 33 Senate seats up for grabs in 2018 and they're all in Red States - it only takes losing 1/3 of your 25 and your last weapon (filibuster) is GONE.  All 3 of your major population states (NY, California and Illinois) are on the brink of financial ruin, gang violence runs amuck, businesses are leaving and there is NOBODY BUT DEMOCRATS to point a finger at!
Don't delude yourself into thinking that just because you can make the most noise with the Mainstream Media in your pocket that average Americans CARE what they spout off.  Trump's ratings are over 50% and CLIMBING!  Meanwhile the Mainstream Media has the lowest credibility rating by the public in recorded history (under 7% believe the media is credible)! 
I despise the "progressives" in the Democratic Party - not the party itself.  We need at least two parties in America to maintain a functioning republic - I don't trust EITHER party with a monopoly of power! 
If you're a traditional JFK Democrat you had better stand up and retake control of your party before the "progressives" drive it off a cliff!!! 
Dino Manalis Added Feb 16, 2017 - 9:57am
Stop dreaming about impeachment and work with the administration to find common ground on key issues to show the public you are responsible and can be taken seriously on leadership and resolution of problems.  Bipartisanship is instrumental!
Mike Haluska Added Feb 16, 2017 - 10:36am
Dino - couldn't have said it better myself! 
Billy Roper Added Feb 16, 2017 - 11:26am
Although left wingers might see Trump's impeachment as a victory, in reality it would radicalize and harden many Whites against them, and make them lose faith in the electoral process as a means to seek to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Mike Haluska Added Feb 16, 2017 - 11:29am
Billy - good post!  The "progressives" have been carrying around their "List" of scores to be settled, including:
1) Bill Clinton's Impeachment
2) Al Gore's Election Loss
3) Hillary Clinton's Defeat
Billy Roper Added Feb 16, 2017 - 11:32am
Thanks, Mike. Political junkies like ourselves sure have a lot to feed on, don't we, these days?
Stone-Eater Added Feb 16, 2017 - 2:49pm
If Trump is impeached you'll get a civil war LOL
Billy Roper Added Feb 16, 2017 - 4:27pm
Stone, I think so, unless people are just too lazy and beaten down to fight back. But, God, I hope so.
EXPAT Added Feb 16, 2017 - 6:38pm
Billy, for once we are in agreement. Please don't destroy your credibility by blaming "The Jews".
The ex-News media are now pure entertainment, with as much credibility as LoonyTunes.
What ever happened to the Christian Science Monitor? Truth can be boring. America is now in a 24/7 RAGE, and information only gets in the way.
Billy Roper Added Feb 16, 2017 - 6:43pm
EXPAT, I wrote an article today actually endorsing the idea of trying to get Jews to agree with us. You might find it interesting:
George N Romey Added Feb 16, 2017 - 8:16pm
Actually SEF a civil war is exactly what this country needs. It would scare the living bejesus out of the elites. Their little game of control would be flushed down the commode along with all of us.
EXPAT Added Feb 16, 2017 - 10:19pm
Billy. I read your article and agree that there are Jews who would benefit from Balkanization. There are also Jews who are ultra liberal, mostly in NY, Cal. and Florida, who put Obama in office. There are Jews in Media who portray Arabs as victims, even though they want to destroy Israel. There are Jews who are predominant in entertainment and media. (Same thing.)
But that only proves to me that Jews are just as delusional and stupid as Progressives.
Where we differ is when you present an idea that these divergent groups who follow a common belief, are actually working together to accomplish the same goal.
There are Jewish settlers who murder Palestinians, and there are Tel Aviv Jews who want to live as brothers with those who want to cut their throats.
I can only judge one incident at a time. All this Conspiracy stuff is not the nature of man.
Billy Roper Added Feb 17, 2017 - 7:22am
Oh no, man, I don't think they're involved in a conspiracy with secret meetings and societies and big schemes, they're just acting on their learned group adaptive survival strategy. It's instinctive, based on their experience of having been kicked out of every country they've ever been in, over and over again, once they were labeled as the 'other' by the otherwise homogeneous majority. They fear that happening again, being intensely aware of their own past, and so they work to undermine the majority, to support open borders and immigration and do anything they can to undermine homogeneity and promote diversity so they will be camouflaged as one of many minorities, instead of the only minority. They're less likely to be picked on that way, and they know it. It's not a conspiracy, but rather a consciousness of history, that drives them to suck their host dry and bring in other parasites to help them.
Mike Haluska Added Feb 17, 2017 - 3:34pm
You know - if you take the difference in the popular vote for Hillary, add the number of Bernie supporters that slept in but meant to vote, the number of illegal aliens who couldn't speak English to vote, divide that by the number of Hillary email erasures and then use a weighted average of the number of college educated female Hispanic attorneys who voted for Hillary then used a Poisson distribution to allocate the number of Trump Cabinet Nominees who didn't pass confirmation and shot every Red State Electoral College member . . . Hillary would have won!!!  Just shows you what a rip-off the election was, man. 
Billy Roper Added Feb 17, 2017 - 4:17pm
Mike, LOL. Imagine what Trump's numbers would have been if only the people whom the Founding Fathers intended to be able to vote had cast a ballot.
Stone-Eater Added Feb 17, 2017 - 6:59pm
When nukes would be fake news I'd say all ok. But as usual, when a country is on the wake of collapse, the regime creates an external enemy to rally the sheep behind them.
And this time it won't be as cool as before (sarcasm).....
Stone-Eater Added Feb 17, 2017 - 7:01pm
I guess the safest place would be Africa. We can live without power forever, but of course not with nuclear fallout ;-)
Stone-Eater Added Feb 17, 2017 - 7:04pm
The only part of the world which can't survive a WWIII is the West. The so-called poor countries will get their crap together much easier. Why ? Because they're not dependent on power to the same extent as we are. When there's lights out here, its death within 3 days. 
Stone-Eater Added Feb 17, 2017 - 7:05pm
Panic, see what I mean ?
Thomas Sutrina Added Feb 17, 2017 - 7:21pm
Stone _eater the safest place is Antarctica.
Jeff Jackson Added Feb 17, 2017 - 10:40pm
Congress impeaches presidents. The Republicans control the House, which begins the impeachment process, and the Senate votes to remove the president from office. The Republican majority House of Representatives would not come close to impeaching Trump unless he did something really really bad. The House of Representatives is nowhere near starting to impeach Trump, nor will they be inclined to in the future, unless, as stated, Trump does something hideous. Trump impeached? Dream on.
Barry aka. Hyperminde Added Feb 18, 2017 - 1:51am
RE [article]: If Donald Trump was impeached by Democrats and enough left-wing and moderate Republicans, how would a President Pence govern?

You worded the question incorrectly ... it should read:

"If Donald Trump was impeached by [the Party of Saul Alinsky] and enough [Totalitarian-Police-State-loving-Elitists who Masquerade as "Non-Democrats"], how would a [Shadow-Government-of-CIA-NSA-Empowered-Permanent-Bureaucrat-Class with Absolute Contempt for Constitutional and Moral Restraints on Power] govern?"

You should realize that "Impeachment" will signal the end of "Government by the People" (because it will be accompanied by a COMPLETE Political PURGE), and the only people to hold any significant political office will be:

1. Loyal to "The Party" (exactly like the Soviet Union, Ba'ath Party of Iraq, etc...)
2. "Family" Members of the "Government Mafia" (No "Outsiders")

RE [Stone-E-F-a]: If Trump is impeached you'll get a civil war LOL.

"Civil War" will be the term used in all media. However, Citizens being EXTERMINATED will be nothing more than history repeating itself.

... just like 13 million slaughtered by Stalin and Bolsheviks ... just like Khmer Rouge ... just like Mao wiped-out 70 million ... just like there's half-a-million dead in Syria now.

Governments never refer to themselves as "Genocidal Psychopaths" (in case readers had not noticed).

PS: Check out what Google returns as a "top hit" for death by government.....

Eileen de Bruin Added Feb 18, 2017 - 6:42am
MJ and Billy, the Brexit was and is a disaster for Britain so it is hard for me to see this as a fresh breeze. The reason that Trump is in power is because people were just totally fed up with the political status quo. Brexit was about people feeling totally disenfranchised from the very narrow, political and media, elite, so it was a protest vote that somehow got tethered to crass and mass xenophobia by means of the press which lied and seemingly without challenge fromthe right political quarters. 
It is less of a fresh breeze and more of a radical move towards intolerance and fascist-like management and governing. These are the two parallels between the US and Britain at the moment, sadly, no fresh breezes but more bad odour. Sadly the direct, and innocent, victims of war are those refugees left in inhuman holding camps in Turkey, Greece and off the coast of Australia. Current politics and its supposed anti- terrorist stance is justifying their vile treatment. Before Trump becomes impeached I hope that he might do something for them because the UK government has washed its hands of them.
Stone-Eater Added Feb 18, 2017 - 7:46am
When the last couple of governments in the US would have made their job correctly for their OWN country instead of messing the world up (c) MIC, a guy like Trump would never gotten up there.
Stone-Eater Added Feb 18, 2017 - 7:53am
BTW: You can't expect people being so dumb not to see what's going on (crumbling infrastructure, job losses, security issues due to rising poverty) and keeping on accepting that situation forever. They were FED UP and I understand that. It's NOT their fault that the US has a system that doesn't allow MORE choices in candidates and a broader distribution of power. A system where merely MONEY decides what's "best" for the people....
Billy Roper Added Feb 18, 2017 - 8:46am
Brain de Bruin, Brexit is not a disaster for Britain economically, and if they'd just go ahead and DO it, and then get rid of the third world rubbish the EU pumped in, they'd be a lot better off.
Billy Roper Added Feb 18, 2017 - 8:47am
The consensus of most people I've surveyed is that yes, if Trump is impeached, there will be a literal civil war.
Kaushik Venkatasubramaniyan Added Feb 18, 2017 - 8:51am
Brexit hasn't even begun so how have you decided it's a disaster? 
Billy Roper Added Feb 18, 2017 - 8:55am
Kaushik, "Eileen" is a transsexual, so he thinks that anything that could cause a run in his pantyhose is a disaster.
Stephen Hunter Added Feb 18, 2017 - 10:03am
No Billy you are "not the only one". 
I too am a dreamer. The dream state is where life begins, where you leave your comfort zone, and live in the NOW.  Most do not. They live in the past, trying to find comfort in the good old days, or they live in fear of the future, causing them to retreat into the comfort zone, along with others also living with fear. 
 I do not dream and manifest the same reality as you Billy, mine is quite the opposite. But I do appreciate how you put your dreams out there. 
John Minehan Added Feb 18, 2017 - 10:05am
"If?"  More like, "When."
The man has 39% approval less than one month in and is completely dysfunctional.
The GOP has to push both Trump and Pence out the door or they are finished as a political party. 
Stephen Hunter Added Feb 18, 2017 - 10:38am
John, there is so much supposed fake news out there on both sides of the spectrum, that I honestly cannot speculate on what the truth really is. 
Bill Mahr for example feels that what is happening now is the worst situation in American history. Is it really that bad? 
John Minehan Added Feb 18, 2017 - 10:50am
"Bill Mahr for example feels that what is happening now is the worst situation in American history. Is it really that bad?"
Bill Maher probably does not have the background in American History to know how dire situations have been before they worked themselves out.
The Burr Conspiracy is easily worse (although unproven against Burr)  and happened at a more vulnerable time. 
John Minehan Added Feb 18, 2017 - 10:56am
My bigger concern is that this is the third Administration in a row that lost the bubble. 
We need someone competent in office fast.
Best way to do that is to oust Trump & Pence and have Ryan become POTUS with a pledge not to run in '20.
Consider Trump our Galba and Ryan our Nerva.
Billy Roper Added Feb 18, 2017 - 11:12am
Second Amendment enthusiasts and military veterans target="_blank">discuss and debate whether we will have a full-blown civil war here in the United States, or “just” some car-bombings, assassinations, and shooting sprees like they had during the “troubles” in Ireland.
Billy Roper Added Feb 18, 2017 - 11:13am
John Minehan Added Feb 18, 2017 - 11:55am
"Second Amendment enthusiasts and military veterans target="_blank">target="_blank">discuss and debate whether we will have a full-blown civil war here in the United States, or “just” some car-bombings, assassinations, and shooting sprees like they had during the “troubles” in Ireland."
More apt analogy would be the OAS bombings in France after the Algerian War.
The "Troubles" in Ireland in the 1920s (Cogadh Cathartha na hÉireann; 28 June 1922 – 24 May 1923) were a full-on Civil War, between the Free-Staters (Collins) and the Republicans. (Catha Brugha).  
Eileen de Bruin Added Feb 18, 2017 - 12:11pm
Billy, I am not a trans sexual and cannot understand why you would make commentary on someone's supposed sexuality anyway...were I to be or not to be, what of it?
Brain de Bruin...hmmmm. Disparaging, non? I can live with that but I fail to see why you should wish to insult people if their views happen to differ from your own.
Kaushik: I have lived and worked  various European countries and I am British with a keen eye on the social and political infrastructure. I am also widely travelled, including in your United states where I have enjoyed fabtastic road holidays and have met many fabulous Americans. A few years' ago, I had the most wonderful conversation in a motel in Corpus Christi to a group of diverse Americans: one was an hispanic truck driver, another was a single parent lady from Dallas and another was a white anglo male who was widely read and fascinated with hearing about life in France, where I was currently based, and how the social system worked for the health service.  In short, I travel and observe and talk widely with whomever and read quality media whenever I can.
My motto: walk through life and talk to everyone.
What has this to do with knowing that brexit is a bad idea for the greater good and the greater ideologies and in attaining higher things? Economically it is a disaster. I have been able to observe the political effects in Britain over the past thirty odd years as a relative outsider, coming in and out, seeing for myself the effects of a very narrow political agenda which has starved many parts of Britain of development. Its entire focus is on the capital, London, and the south east. Infrastructure in all other parts of Britain simply has not kept pace to meet a 21st century world. The crash in 2008 has its effects, as you all know, but these are only just beginning as there is much more coming in terms of deprivation. Britain inside of the European block was a worthy and respected balance in the political and economic and social worlds. Striving upwards and outwards is a great mission and the European union has delvered innumerable benefits.
Socially, brexit is cultivating more inward looking facets and unbridled xenophobia. Politically it is giving the right wing fascist elements on the continent of Europe the nod to go ahead being overtly xenophobic and intolerant. I can see the direct effects whenever I am over there, like right now, and the media which is sold in supermarkets is hateful and publishes dreadful statements about foreigners, migrants, immigrants. It subliminally is feeding the myth that foreigners are to blame and it is cultivating hate and intolerance. I can see it in the streets and inside my own family and social contacts.
It is a disaster in every possible way for the human condition in the modern world. Shame on an anachronistic political system which has delivered this preposterous monster.
Kaushik Venkatasubramaniyan Added Feb 18, 2017 - 12:27pm
I live in the UK Eileen, in London and have lived here for the best part of a decade and in Central Europe for half a decade before that so I have experienced in these places first hand and understand the issues. The initial economic indicators after the Brexit vote have been if anything positive and as I said Brexit hasn't happened yet as Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty has to be triggered first and the cultural life hasn't changed one way or the other either so how did you come to that conclusion as facts don't seem to support it. 
As far as Trump is concerned he won a landslide of the regions of the US. As Mike Haluska has previously pointed out he won more than 3100 counties across the US compared to 59 of Hillary Clinton. The only reason she won the popular vote was the heavily populated States of California and the North East which tells us that immigration may have been used as a form of gerrymandering which is hardly democratic. 
John Minehan Added Feb 18, 2017 - 12:50pm
Ms. de Bruin: 
Bit early to tell about the economy as a function of BREXIT.  The changes so far appear to be statistically insignificant, which makes sense as the issue turns, in the longer term, on the opportunity cost of leaving the EU. 
If the EU fails catastrophically, it might be better for the UK to have left, even if the British economy lags (less catastrophically).
On the other hand, if (as appears likely) the EU is ultimately bound up into the PRC's "One Belt, One Road" vision, it might prove catastrophically short sighted to have left the EU, but that is all bound up in how "One Belt, One Road" fares.
More importantly, Britain's voters had the right to make its choice.  While I can see potential risks and rewards to either course of action in an economic sense, that is the choice they made.  Your comments remind me of something the great Milton Friedman once said,  “Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.”  
Billy Roper Added Feb 18, 2017 - 2:48pm
Eileen, so, why does your referrer on Linked In use the male pronoun exclusively when mentioning you?
Stone-Eater Added Feb 20, 2017 - 6:12am
Good comment. You're walking around with open eyes. The big problem is the usual one: Generalization. While there are quite a few arrogant and aggressive young male immigrants (as here in Switzerland) from mostly Muslim countries which are neither real Muslims nor people who integrate - just petty criminals in search for brand clothes, cars and digital stuff they can show off or re-deal, the vast majority is quiet and just wants to work for a better living or saving up to build a house back home in the future.
We should have strong punishment against those young thugs, copy the sort of prisons they have back home here (0 comfort, little food and 30 guys in a room), let them sit there for a while and then kick them out.
Sometimes you have to state an example. So future thugs will reflect about coming here first... 
Eileen de Bruin Added Feb 21, 2017 - 6:32am
Kaushik, I have lived and worked in London too. My sister has been there for more than forty years. I have lived in many places inthe UK and went to school there etc. My antecedent family are all Brits, Scots, Irish. Your perspectives on the UK as a whole, from London, cannot be as clear. I have grown up in the politics and social changes of the sixties and the seventies and in the eighties I started to move around in Europe whilst constantly returning to the UK. 
The political elite and the anachronistic parliament has done the country a great injustice and the social infrastructure has been broken down. It did not happen last week, it has been happening for more than thirty years and I have witnessed the gradual effects.
Jihn Minehan: you just need to look at the economic wealth the EU has given the UK to begin to understand the jeopardy that it is now in. There is going to be much loss and the indicators are already showing in that the entire social system is now being abandoned to let local councils somehow raise money, because the exchequer is afraid of the future. Social infrastructure is now at crumbling point including housing and abstract services. Even private care companies are pulling out because there is no money to be made.
Immigration has enriched the UK, not impoverished it, as is the case inthe US and any university economics department will tell you that. Alongside the fact the migration is part of the human condition, the world and its economies need this driver.
Billy: no idea, have not looked recently.
Stone Eater: thank you. I do know that generalisation can be a debilitator but it is the case, in the UK for sure, that the political and social infrastructure is now totally unfit for purpose in the 21st century. That is not a generalisation, it is a fact. 
Brexit and the referendum are merely catalysts in a narrow political and media elite to control the masses and to divert people away from the truth. We are our own worst enemies though, because if we have voted only with our eye on personal financial gain...cutting taxes...then it means that we have sold out the modern social infrastructure that we should have.
Instead of our minds broadening, they are narrowing and then we need to blame others and have wars.
Kaushik Venkatasubramaniyan Added Feb 21, 2017 - 4:17pm
Why can't my perspective be clear Eileen? The law of Diminishing Marginal Utility impacts background knowledge as well meaning after a point knowledge starts losing its value in understanding that particular issue or situation. There's only so much analysis that's needed before we get to the bottom of any issue. 
Kaushik Venkatasubramaniyan Added Feb 21, 2017 - 4:19pm
The UK has other regions of the world to trade with and bear in mind Europe is losing native population and the immigrants aren't anywhere as productive as the natives so there's a strong case for the EU being a drag on growth in the coming years and decades. 
Kaushik Venkatasubramaniyan Added Feb 21, 2017 - 4:20pm
I'd say that's true for different parts of the US as well. 
Eileen de Bruin Added Feb 22, 2017 - 2:53am
Kaushik, immigrants being less productive than natives is a nonentity. Immigrants, throughout the ages bring hard work and prosperity and eventually become natives of the land through the next generations.  The law of diminishing returns is now applicable because we are going to dissuade talent entering the country in all industries and education and culture. The previous immigrants families are now part of the Brits and are equally narrow minded and vote narrowly and jingoistically is the parody of life and the human narrow condition of I am alright, not like those new immigrants coming in and now close the door!
Where are your economics professors in the news please? Give them a call and get them on CNN or Fox.
To return to impeachment. Were it to happen becuase the populace or the legal framework or the bemused states of New York and Washington or where ever are fed up with the bills of protecting the nepotic administration, then it might just spark a ray of hope on the other side of The Pond! 
Surely, the great US machine cannot continue to be driven like a bus driver in the middle of a children's play gound, can it?
Kaushik Venkatasubramaniyan Added Feb 24, 2017 - 2:19pm
Through those times you mention we didn't have welfare payments for people so immigrants either succeeded, perished or went back when is very different to today's situation.  
Productivity is the result or hard work,  adaptability,  intelligence, already existing skills, speed at which we learn new things and so on. That quite clearly shines the light on he shortcomings of many of the recent immigrants from a particular region but I do agree that of someone wrecks a place with invasions or other sush activities they own the resulting problem.  
Eileen de Bruin Added Feb 26, 2017 - 4:34am
Kaushik, you will find that economically, immigrants produce more for the nation than they take out. Welfare payments in the UK are not generous and are highly restricted. I have helped Brits, not immigrants, to fill in complex forms for disability benefits in the eighties and nineties and it was very hard work to realise the legitimate claim, even for a woman who had been in a wheelchair for years. There is about 13 billion pounds in unclaimed benefit in the UK. It is so difficult to claim even what one has a right to, that people often just give up. The right wing political and media group has fed the lie to the nation, however.
The EU situation is that Britain will lose talent throughout all industries and academic institutions. EU regulations have served to help standards throughout life and work in the UK and now any higher body to refer to, i.e.: European Law or regulation, will be dissolved. 
To return to impeachment and to the close relationship between the US Trump campaign as well as the Brexit campaign with Farage at its helm:
The US billionaire Robert Mercer, bankrolled Donald Trump, and played key role with ‘sinister’ advice on using Facebook data. This also was used in the Brexit campaign as Farage and Mercer are friends. This is easy to source in the media.
It is a frightening commonality and parallels between the UK and the US, and it is not to the good of either nation, overall.
Kaushik Venkatasubramaniyan Added Feb 27, 2017 - 3:50pm
Billionaires tend to fund all sides. It's their modus operandi. As for welfare payments it's not just direct payments like child tax credits but also tax payer support in schooling for example. As for tax credits in the lower income group that basically is a payment to the receiver because they pay hardly any tax anyway besides data on that may be understating the payments much like the understated numbers of immigrants.
I'm an immigrant myself but I haven't claimed a penny ever in benefits and am a net contributor in many ways but the issue is more than money. It's about getting the consent of the native population before allowing increasing numbers of immigrants. Politicians from all sides have lied about the actual numbers one way or the other so it's the lies rather than the money that's incensed the disadvantaged people but of course many native British people are less and less able or willing to do the jobs available and politicians lie to them about that as well to "soothe their feelings" 
Kaushik Venkatasubramaniyan Added Feb 27, 2017 - 3:50pm
I guess it's a similar situation in the US. 
Eileen de Bruin Added Feb 28, 2017 - 5:18am
it is not about money.  it is about a developed, sophisticated nation. In northern Europe, the best quality of life is in Holland, Denmark, Sweden... if your taxes pay towards a good infrastructure - which benefits everybody irrespective of class - then you get a more sophisticated society.  If health care, education, cultural events, libraries etc. are given to everyone, then everyone benefits but you get more back than that, as in the sum of the whole is worth more than the sum of the parts.
I have seen my UK devolve, degrade and fall into a hopeless situation now of the law of diminishing returns - the society's infrastructure has been starved and we now the the effects of the crumbling social care, prison or rehabilitation,health, education and on and on.  This is a cross party issue and politics in the UK is stuck in the dark ages.  The quality of life in Holland, for example, is so good that people in the Uk cannot even imagine it.
Do not forget Kaushik, that we are speaking of the top, wealthy nations and in the 21st century it is a very sad thing to see how far behind the UK has now fallen.  This has nothing to do with foreigners or immigrants; it has everything to do with an archaic parliamentary system.
Yes, the UK is now closely mirroring the US - as in the huge differences in the wealthy and the poor.  I often wondered why programmes from the European continent were so few and far between in the UK - far more emphasis on the US - but I now realise that if people in the UK were aware of the quality of life on the continent with a fairer distribution of wealth (through taxes, through social infrastructure, good quality social housing as well as private housing etc.) they would wonder why it was not at least as good in the UK. 
It is a controlling mechanism to keep the poor, dumb enough to believe the lies about the immigrants or foreigners being the problem. And it keeps those in power removed and elitist....and so it goes on.
Kaushik Venkatasubramaniyan Added Feb 28, 2017 - 3:59pm
There's no guarantee that if we do X, Y will be the result particularly when the factors are variable. Well administered social/infrastructure programmes have to necessarily work on the profit motive like a co-operative. That means people acting in good faith which in turn means respecting and adhering to the rules of that society. When those rules are changed to appease foreign born vested interests those programmes become a free ride for those abusing it as many in Europe are discovering. Besides Europe has a bigger problem namely population exchange in case it isn't so obvious to some as to others. Native Europeans perhaps corrupted by "modern 21st century attitudes" now consider child bearing and rearing a burden with the result that immigrants many of whom who refuse to adhere to the rules of the land they have squatted on are almost the only ones having children. Europe is on a fast track to become a Sultanate again with native whites on the fast track to become a minority in their own land. 
The US is also on course for a similar situation with Hispanics and people of African descent on course to become the new majority. Perhaps this is the cycle of life but people have to be conscious of it. 
Kaushik Venkatasubramaniyan Added Feb 28, 2017 - 4:04pm
Besides, if we look at Denmark, unemployment benefits aren't unconditional. People have to work at least part time for it doing their share in public or approved programmes. There are not many European countries with that kind of condition for unemployment benefits. Developed countries must encourage people to return to work by not abruptly withdrawing the full amount of benefits and/or all benefits as soon as the unemployed return to work instead phasing the withdrawal as the newly employed become more and more able to survive without assistance. Otherwise they will continue to build an unprivileged class 
Kaushik Venkatasubramaniyan Added Feb 28, 2017 - 4:04pm
Kaushik Venkatasubramaniyan Added Feb 28, 2017 - 4:07pm
Of course there should also be a deadline by which the unemployment benefits in receipt will be withdrawn so there's some urgency for those in receipt of those benefits. That's the way unemployment insurance payments would work. 
Eileen de Bruin Added Feb 28, 2017 - 5:09pm
@Kaushic. It still is important to have a good social infrastrucutre to benefit everyone. I think that focus on benefits as a wrong thing to,have, is misleading. What is the point of having people without means? 
Most people want to,work and prosper, not rob the country they are in. 
Kaushik Venkatasubramaniyan Added Feb 28, 2017 - 5:24pm
That last part is an assumption that isn't true for everyone at all times, indeed is not true for many people many a time. 
Kaushik Venkatasubramaniyan Added Feb 28, 2017 - 5:29pm
How many among us will say no to "something for nothing"? Humans both male and female are motivated by the prospect of "gaining advantage" which is the profit motive. It's a truism. Why would Welfare benefits be an exception? 
Eileen de Bruin Added Mar 2, 2017 - 4:36am
I agree. Something for nothing, as a norm, is not a good idea. This has caused part of the cultural shifts in the UK, but that is because it, the concept, has been mal used. Note that billions of legitimate benefits go unclaimed. More developed societies ensure that the two,extremes are not worlds apart. Public facilities including education, health etc. is the best way overall to make a more balanced society. Not the case in the US and the UK.
Back to impeachment: good lord, the man is all over the place with his ideas. Now he is big on war, whilst he said that he was not during the lobbying and his inauguration. What is going on now?