How about Productive Discussion-Is It Still Possible?

I have a question of Trump supporters, well probably more than one.  Now don’t get defensive, automatically.  While I don’t necessarily agree with you I can see some of your perspective, I say that with great reservation.

In watching media coverage on Trump, several stations, both supportive and not supportive of the idealistic approach he has of his policies and his first days in the White House, I questioned a few things. So I went back to statistics to see how prior Presidents were received to office and what they did in their first days in office.

Prior Presidents in their first 100 days have received just as much if not more media scrutiny since this is the time that by many accounts determines their Presidency and its policy moving forward.  Bush received a much better economic position than Trump has but he was improperly prepared for his tenure in the White House in foreign affairs and his media was poor.  Clinton was also good domestically and a good negotiator, but also not great in foreign affairs and his media ended up poor.  Obama likewise, brought the country back from as close to a depression as we could get when he took office,.  Also we were in a War in the Middle East which escalated our deficit, but overall his media was positive.  Could any of them have done more? Definitely.  But why were some positive and some not?  It wasn’t partisan.  I thought that but its not. 

But I didn’t write this as a debate, I wrote this as a question..its not even 30 days into Trumps Presidency.  Don’t complain about what could have happened…don’t talk about Hillary Clinton, she is not Trumps problem and to be honest I don’t care about her. During the march, some did and some did not, so she is NOT the factor.

I am asking what could Trump do to stop all this bad press and turn this around in his favor for the remaining time in his first 100 days to come out in history as the most positive by ALL PEOPLE, not just his base.  In spite of what you believe, people are not snowflakes and are very upset not so much by him, but his actions and although many don’t realize it, the actions of people in Congress.   Remember you felt the same way about the democrats and the things you felt they did.

This is not an argument or a place to rant, I will not argue.  I have heard reasonable debate on this from Trump supporters, if you want to discus, I want to hear about it. I would like the conversation to stay in this century and w/o religion if possible to relevant debate on the question.  Aside from that, I want to hear all sides of this as I cannot completely disagree that BOTH sides may have some issues.  Don’t you agree that when people criticize or inquire they want to help improve something they care about?  Perhaps just make you aware of an alternative view?  Look its not in ANYONES best interest for Trump to not be in the WH, so people need to talk not argue.

Just a thought. 

Comments

wsucram15 Added Feb 17, 2017 - 10:52am
Im just here to listen and observe ideas from this page.  Please be objective and not argumentative.
Bee Ess Added Feb 17, 2017 - 11:41am
Can you provide the data to back up your claim that past President saw just as much negative divisive and hate filled media reports in there first 100 days.
 
I am not a Trump fan.   I am very concerned on a number of issues.  
 
Obama news was ignored and buried many times over.    In fact, they did very little digging on his past (Much of which was sealed) before he became President. 
 
The establishment runs Washington and if you try to buck it, watch out from the media.  If you play along, the media will kiss your ass...
 
Even Obama made fun of them at his last presser, by calling them out as sycophants.  
Ryan Messano Added Feb 17, 2017 - 12:59pm
The press is completely blind, and so is everyone who voted for Hillary.  There is no compromising with blindness.  The petulant pansies have to be disciplined and it's going to hurt.  
Dan Paragine Added Feb 17, 2017 - 1:45pm
Since the AG, and now the SCOTUS, the executive branch is running amuck.
the free press is the only check and balance left. 
The dam on Russia ties with Trump, Tillerson ,Putin and Crimean oil will break.
Ryan Messano Added Feb 17, 2017 - 1:55pm
Excuse me! The idea that Russia hacked the election is fake news, and then when Flynn tries to reassure Russia about troop build up and our expelling Russian diplomats, he gets in trouble.  There are a lot more naive and gullible Americans than I suspected.  Ties between Trump and Russia are entirely unconfirmed.  It is absurd that Americans are so easily duped by their biases.
Dan Paragine Added Feb 17, 2017 - 2:14pm
Flynn engaged with Russia before Trump was in office,
illegal activity. There is a lot more to it. I never mentioned the election. There is proof now there was contact with Russia during the election.is Tillersons accepting Russia's high award from Putin un confirmed? There is a connection to Crimean oil.
We can't even get Tax returns. So you think the press should be silent?
wsucram15 Added Feb 17, 2017 - 3:06pm
Bee Ess, only news papers, media like Time and various reports in history on the media scrutiny of the Presidents first 100 days, I went back to Reagan who also had some serious scrutiny and other things to overcome in his first 100 days.  I was not making one President better or worse than the other.
But I was just asking, not getting confrontational or even trying to make a point.  I was asking for your opinion.
The establishment does run Washington, DC..some of that I have seen firsthand in working in and around there. But the media doesnt run DC, that is not real.   The media spins what happens and sells news.
But they are not the makers of the news. ..that falls far behind what we see.
No policitian likes the press..but again thats not my point unless you feel that the media is Trumps only problem..is this true Bess Ess?
 
wsucram15 Added Feb 17, 2017 - 3:56pm
Dan..
Thank you for standing up for the facts, but I really want to know w/o argument why the people on this site, feel that Trump has been treated differently.  I disregard some of the people but others I listen to..
I think its important for everyone.
wsucram15 Added Feb 17, 2017 - 3:57pm
Ryan..why are you arguing, you are smarter than that.  Talk to me, answer my question.
wsucram15 Added Feb 17, 2017 - 4:24pm
Roper..its Jeanne and I asked you to not comment my threads, especially if you have nothing constructive to say.
Dan Paragine Added Feb 17, 2017 - 4:56pm
Defense is a new mindset for the right after 8 years of offense against the Obama Admin.
wsucram15 Added Feb 17, 2017 - 5:15pm
I know, Im pretty involved in that..resist.
But after awhile, after you speak to people who arent screaming Trumps agenda and speak kindly to you about it, you want to hear from others who have a different point of view.  Im not even trying to debate it, I just want to hear what they have to say.
Thats why there will be no comments..understand Dan?
Dan Paragine Added Feb 17, 2017 - 5:21pm
I understand. Give it some time, I am sure we will hear soon.
Micahel Dolan Added Feb 17, 2017 - 5:26pm
Donald Trump became president how did it happen?. Well it happened because of the utter failed Obama administration and the Hillary email, Benghazi, and Hillary calling voters deplorable. Trump is not a politician-Trump will do what Trump said he will do. The media are in total meltdown and making fools of themselves. Trump's daughter under attack-his wife is being slandered- his young son is attacked-
We have street terrorist attacking people- burning down buildings- BLM Thugs are terrorist. The anti Trump Women's march was led by an Islamist in a Hijab. Linda Sarsour, she is a leader of so many of the causes that Hussein Obama promoted as president.
Occupy Wall Street-BDS-BLM-MBH. After 9/11, Sarsour rose in power by promoting the Jihad Fiction of Islama phobia. The Democray Party used this accusation too fight Republican national security measures.
Sarsour's Islamic group was a big success. It penetrated the NY Police Dept. from conducting surveillance of Muslim groups and Mosques the police expected of promoting terrorism.
Sarsour is a Radical Palestinian who supports international terrorism and the destruction of Israel. Sarsour supports Sharia Law in America. Wake-Up-----Americans*******
Dan Paragine Added Feb 17, 2017 - 5:42pm
 
Why is the media treating Trump differently than other Presidents? Dolan?
wsucram15 Added Feb 17, 2017 - 5:46pm
Ok..but have you seen this personally.  I cant attest for all BLM members but I have protested with some and they protest peacefully and do not bomb buildings.  I was at the Womans March and not all were there for anti-Trump because I marched with Trump supporters. Most were there for Pro-Choice.   On those things I can attest and that is incorrect information on your part.  The anti-Trump protests began with the anti-muslim orders.
I also work with Occupy but only for dark money in politics and in DC.
I have never rioted or been arrested.  I have spoken in the Capital and worked with various Congress people and Senate members on both sides of the aisle.  I also worked with groups associated with the White House, for which I have the thank you letters.
 
But you gave me a history..which I am aware of.  Is this your opinion of what Trump could do to make things great and get all people to work together, its in everyones best interest to do so.
 
Doug Plumb Added Feb 17, 2017 - 6:46pm
re " In spite of what you believe, people are not snowflakes and are very upset not so much by him, but his actions and although many don’t realize it, the actions of people in Congress.   Remember you felt the same way about the democrats and the things you felt they did."
  I don't give a shit about how you feel or how I feel. I am interested in objective facts. Your subjective thinking is leading us into a hell you know nothing about. You can't even look. You admitted in your above article to using the press as a guide for your thinking.
  re "Roper..its Jeanne and I asked you to not comment my threads, especially if you have nothing constructive to say.  "
  This is no way to have a discussion of any kind.
Doug Plumb Added Feb 17, 2017 - 6:49pm
re "w/o religion if possible to relevant debate on the question". All the changes that are taking place are the result of religious doctrines. This whole mess is all about religious doctrine and if you miss that you miss the point.
William Stockton Added Feb 17, 2017 - 9:09pm
This sounds more like the Jeanne of past.  So I reply cordially and give you the respect as an old friend.
 
First, I am not sure what question you are asking but perhaps it is this:
"I am asking what could Trump do to stop all this bad press and turn this around in his favor for the remaining time in his first 100 days to come out in history as the most positive by ALL PEOPLE, not just his base."
 
Well I will tell you what the worst thing he could do . . . play politics and try to please everyone.  In doing so, he would please nobody and likely not accomplish anything.  Establishment anyone?
 
I see Trump as the bad-ass potus as to which he was elected.  The center of America (coastal poles not withstanding) hired Trump to turn the establishment on its head.  And for good reason . . . identity politics, race-bating, lost jobs, anti-American sentiment, pathological empathy, anti-nationalism, corrupt DNC, Hillary's corruption, corrupt government for that matter, failed foreign policies, domestic crime.
Holy cow.  Any one of these things could have been a reason any individual voter decided to cast their ballot to hire him.
All those things I mentioned were all the things Trump had stated he would fix if elected.  Do you honestly think that when he fixes any one of those that everyone will be happy about it?  Hell no!
 
There are people whose values are deeply intertwined with the left's political part which Trump's supporters (and Trump) vehemently opposes.  I think you may be naive to believe that Trump or any of his supporters don't expect a brutal battle the next four years to make these changes.  Assuredly, they sure as hell expected a horrendous fight, if not fatal, if Hillary was elected.  I know I expected that.
 
To have a press who doesn't favor Trump or whatever he says . . . who gives a hoot?  I know I don't.  And I know Trump doesn't care.  Hell, he's loving the fight.  Yep . . . he's a badass in Whitehouse.  And a bunch of people in America are badasses as well.  We know.  We elected him.
 
Stephen Hunter Added Feb 17, 2017 - 9:52pm
wsu you are so correct, why can't we just discuss things rather than name call and lay blame and spew emotional venom? 
If the press is a problem than where else shall we get the news? And how do we know how truthful alternative sources are? Is there some kind of unbiased fact checking machine that cold be devised to filter news?
 
Leroy Added Feb 17, 2017 - 11:17pm
Trump has had an adversarial relationship with the press since his nomination.  You can't criticize the press and expect to be treated with kid gloves.  And, of course, there is bias in the press.  No one should doubt that today.
 
How does he change it?  Keep doing what he is doing.  I've never been a fan of Trump, but I like what I see so far.  I think the people who voted for him like what they see.  They like the verbal assaults on the press.  The people that don't like it never liked Trump.  Everytime the press gets caught reporting fake news, they diminish in stature just a little bit more.  The epithet "Fake News" came from the MSM press to denigrate Trump.  Trump turned the tables on them.  The press no longer uses the term.  Today, "Fake News" is used to refer to MSM.  They are the fake news reporters in the mind of most Americans.  Trump won that battle.  CNN diminishes each time it tries to battle Trump.  Rumor has it that NBC is trying to be viewed as more conservative.   Maybe he is having a positive effect on the press. The latest news says Trump's popularity is at 55%.  He seems to be gaining ground.  So, Trump, keep doing what you are doing.  You are winning the battle with the American people.
Mark Hunter Added Feb 18, 2017 - 3:55am
The mainstream media loved Hillary Clinton, and in general they hate all conservatives and/or Republicans. They *really* hate Donald Trump, because he beat their anointed candidate, because he's a rich businessman, and because he doesn't care one whit about the politically correct that they treasure so much.
 
Please understand, I'm not a huge Trump fan myself. Certainly in his position I'd try to moderate my words and work with people as much as possible--but as others have said, his personality is exactly why so many people love him. They're tired of lying politicians, so much that they'd rather have someone who says exactly what he means, even if what he says is sometimes wrong.
 
  And it's pointless for him to try, because when it comes to the press, there's absolutely nothing he could do: If Donald Trump scooped up asphalt from the street, turned it into gold, and handed it out to poor people, the media would jump all over him for causing potholes. They despise him, and will continue to work to undermine him no matter what.
Doug Plumb Added Feb 18, 2017 - 4:24am
re "Do you honestly think that when he fixes any one of those that everyone will be happy about it?  Hell no!"
 
If the people meet their true saviour, he would be hanging from a streetlamp shortly afterwards. We aren't yet ready to be saved by our "leaders" but hopefully one day.
 
Billy Roper Added Feb 18, 2017 - 8:51am
Oh, it's Jeanne using this account, now? I thought it was somebody named Sara. It's hard to keep up.
Micahel Dolan Added Feb 18, 2017 - 10:04am
The most important thing to understand how to make America-safe-prosperous and Great Again. Well simply do the opposite of what Hussein Obama did to America. 
Greg Sturmer Added Feb 18, 2017 - 10:50am
I do think, from an across the pond perspective, that the anti-everything brigade are in a strange form of denial.
 
My case.
 
1) Trump was ridiculed as a candidate.
2) Trump was attacked personally and his supporters attacked as racists, etc etc.
3) Trump won.
4) Trump is still being called every name under the sun.
5) Trump's popularity is still increasing.
 
In a very short and non-partisan way I just can't imagine why anyone would think that Trump would want anything to change. It isn't harming him at all. In fact it is strengthening him.
 
Once again we have a similar situation in the UK as the anti-Brexit people fail to realise their own behaviour has lost them all, but the hard line support. It's around 60% in favour of Brexit at the moment.

So my question is, if you make a mistake and it helps your enemy, why on earth would you keep making the same mistake everyday? The only answers I have are both implausible, but to quote Sherlock Holmes " when you have removed all other possibilities that which remains no matter how implausible must be the truth." So here is my truth, feel free to ignore.

1) CNN, WSJ, The Independent, the BBC et al, are actually on Trump's side and pro Brexit.
2) They are all negligent, incompetent and delusional having some how got themselves stuck into a group think where they simply can't accept their own behaviour is what strengthens their enemy.
 
I don't like either logical answer, but at the moment I can't see any other conclusions to the facts I outlined in making the case.
 
The solution as I see it, is a return to basic journalistic principles of sourcing and impartiality in the interests of a wider readership. But somehow I doubt that will ever happen. Hacks can't actually fill the 24h news requirement with in depth, well sourced, quality investigations so they don't, they resort to quoting each other inside their own narrow bubbles and claiming that another press outlet is a valid source on which to base a story when it obviously isn't.

Then then make it worse by spouting clever but futile, fact-less "agenda driven" opinions or unanswerable questions based on that secondary source, and act surprised when it is called out as fake news. 

This type of lazy reporting is actually so obviously "fake" (meaning loaded) that in the end it actually benefits the person it is aimed at, rather than hurting them or informing anybody else, because the public rightly sees the loaded questions as being loaded, so they take the side of the then underdog. (who is the one being attacked not the one attacking). 

I call it the Rubber Biscuit effect and Trump is one of its biggest beneficiaries. He throws the biscuit the press chase it straight into the wall, but the biscuit bounces back where it came from leaving the press with a sore head in the middle of nowhere. 
 
A similar thing is happening with protests as they are being done to death by the same increasingly irrelevant minority of intolerant activists and celebrities. 

The really scary thing is that we might actually need journalism and protest to protect our society one day soon, and, unfortunately these self appointed value signallers, will have ruined and devalued both, unless they stop their stupidity and learn from their mistakes.
Bill H. Added Feb 18, 2017 - 11:18am
Trump needs to depart from campaigning (he won) and remember that he was elected to do a job. He needs to put his ego (which apparently has total control of him) aside, quit being a showman, quit trying to cover his failures and mistakes by constantly lying, and actually begin to accomplish something, rather than pissing off who could be his best ally, the news media.
Even if he accomplished the above, he needs to remember that as the President, he is required to be a uniter and not a divider.
All of this requires one important factor, maturity and the ability to think logically. I don't believe Donald possesses either of these traits.
 
Greg Sturmer Added Feb 18, 2017 - 11:45am
Bill you may be right. But it wasn't my point. Everyone seems to focus only on the personality these days and they seem to miss the changes in the structure of the main pillars of a free society.
 
Example. 40 years ago the press was not owned by just a few people so they were in direct and real competition with each other. Nobody quoted rivals or gave them air. 20 years ago this ended as did the need to have your own sources for a story when the News Corporations arrived. Fast forward to today and after 10 short years of scandal and over reach, and after the cover up of the true scale of the financial crash and the total failure to investigate those actually responsible, journalism is ruined. It does not matter a hoot if they are spouting unwavering love for Trump or absolute bias, the fact they do either and they do it in editorial packs, is what gives rise to real concerns.

Trump will be gone in four or eight years so no one needs lose much sleep. All politicians say things, but very few actually do anything useful or long lasting. However it does seem that for much longer than that, society will be saddled with this bi-polar, out of touch and deluded press corporatism and journalism will fail to properly investigative that which a free society must have investigated. And for me that is a far bigger concern. 

It is easy to imagine a world without Trump, but try to imagine a world where the only integrity, accountability and oversight for politicians and businesses has to be found amongst everything else in the fifth estate? Hard to imagine a worse future but it becomes very likely at the moment unless things change.
Bill H. Added Feb 18, 2017 - 12:31pm
 
Exactly why I avoid bubble news like Fox, MSNBC, and now CNN.
It does take some work and research to find the facts these days, but much of the work is simply unraveling and dissecting what is out there.
It seems like many people simply lock into what they see as a comfortable news source or person who always serves it to them in a way that does not require any thinking or reasoning, but simply "feels good" to them, and they eat it up like a plate of spaghetti.
I find the best sources these days to be many of the foreign and short-wave (what's left of them) broadcasters.
I recently heard that Trump is going to make a grab for the Voice of America broadcasting system. This should be interesting. 
Jeff Jackson Added Feb 18, 2017 - 12:33pm
I'm convinced that if the mass media such as the New York Times and their cohorts keep trying to denounce Trump it will have the opposite effect. Eventually, people will wonder why they have nothing good to say about the man and begin to see the good in him. The media can only carry on so long before people will begin to challenge their biased opinions and realize that they are not being objective journalists, but ideologues for the Democrats. Look at Richard Nixon, hated by the mass media, denounced at every turn, and elected in a landslide election in 1972. They would be better to be objective, because their ideological message is beginning to hurt their credibility.
Dan Paragine Added Feb 18, 2017 - 12:45pm
Why does it seem the media treats Trump differently?
Greg Sturmer Added Feb 18, 2017 - 1:16pm
Dan the "mess" media doesn't just treat Trump differently they go way beyond that. They slant every headline to create a reaction. Unfortunately each news organisation only knows or allows its staff to slant one way.

Call it click bait, call it what you like but the headlines are no longer being used for what they used to be used for (widest general appeal)  and people feel that targeted difference.

In the fifth estate "mockrage" insincerity, and value signalling rule the headline copy at the moment so anyone non-corporate in the spot light gets the same harsh treatment. It's not just Trump.

Just look at the so called hater "PewDiePie". The corporate backed media hates that a kid is more relevant than them, so they attack him, twist a joke in poor taste into a hate crime, and hey presto it's news.

Fake news, unless you think Swedish kids are racists.  But still news.  It is an obviously cynical profit motive to spin a shock headline into interest/clicks from his own supporters and it is highly unfair and unethical.

Anyone that actually thinks Disney didn't do full due diligence and hadn't checked every video the kid ever made is either mad or stupid. Disney knew.

The fact Disney knew and still went ahead, should be the real headline if the kid really is a racist and Disney paid him, but it doesn't even get a mention, because you can attack a kid or a President and plead the first, but Disney might take it personal.
 
 
Dan Paragine Added Feb 18, 2017 - 1:26pm
So the truth is no where to be found. How about Dan Rather's Facebook news?
(I don't Facebook)
So now there are no standards, no truths, just obfuscation. 
I will continue to get my news from the weather channel. Or they are full of it also?
Bill H. Added Feb 18, 2017 - 1:57pm
Even the Weather Channel has been deemed as "Socialist Liberal" because they occasionally run a program on climate change.
Greg Sturmer Added Feb 18, 2017 - 2:06pm
Unfortunately your are correct. The weather channel is perhaps the only channel that can be universally fact checked by simply sticking your head out the window.

It is  a good analogy. The only reliable system of news today is to have many feeds and to remember to stick your head out of the bubble from time to time.
 
I miss the good old days when the BBC actually reported its own independent truth. It was close enough. Comfortingly nationally biased not issue biased. It united not divided. It had patriotism in its heart. Then came the EU grants!

I'll bet CNN wasn't so dissimilar before the corporate owners. They all just forgot their own people in their race to conquer the world. We lost a free press but gained a fifth estate and it's time we all removed the rose tinted glasses and woke up to the new reality.
Dan Paragine Added Feb 18, 2017 - 2:13pm
Cable news seems to have changed the face of journalism for the worst.
Douglas Proudfoot Added Feb 20, 2017 - 3:08pm
I believe that the mainstream media would never accept Trump no matter how nice or mean he was.  Trump won the election because unlike previous candidates McCain and Romney, Trump realized he was in a bare knuckle, no holds barred, fight with the mainstream press.  Trump used the same rules to comment on the press that they used to comment on him.  Anything goes.
 
When the press is calling you Hitler and saying that you committed incest with your daughter, there's not a lot of room for being nice.  All presidential preference polls of the mainstream media and academia show they are 70-90% liberal Democrats.  They make no effort to hide their bias in their coverage.  They make up excuses for Hillary's email server while accusing Trump of treason with now names, places sources or any detail of any kind.  The only thing new about Trump is that he gets just as dirty and petty as the Pravda Press.  They aren't used to attacks on the level they dish them out.  So they say he is attacking freedom of the press.  That's not true.  Trump is counter attacking the yellow journalists who think they have a license to say anything they want about him without any return arguments.
Douglas Proudfoot Added Feb 20, 2017 - 3:27pm
In my opinion, Trump won because Barack Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D, Nevada) were so successful in working around the Republican Congress.  Every change after 2010 was done with an executive order, regulatory agency overreach or rogue court ruling.  Congress got to increase the federal debt limit and ratify Obama's budget in a singe vote each.  All small spending bills were filibustered so the Republicans could vote for bloat or shut down the government.
 
Republican primary voters felt that the regular suspects could not get the job done.  I felt that the Constitution and rule of law was singing not so slowing in the West.  Progressives felt that the ends justified the means.  The result was Trump.  We will see if he respects Constitutional norms or not.  So far the appointment of Judge Gorsuch to the Supreme Court is very positive.
wsucram15 Added Feb 20, 2017 - 9:40pm
Doug..there is more to that comment to Roper than this discussion. But I really didn't ask for your opinion on that, I'm not going to be apologetic for asking you to stick to the question I asked. Thank you
I do however care what people think when I ask their opinion on a TOPIC, it becomes of value to me.  I like people and I see too much contention, more so on here.  People in life are more courteous and speak more carefully  about this topic even though it isnt real. Some actually are conflicted and I can see that, but Im trying to untwist some of the contention.
Nothing more.
wsucram15 Added Feb 20, 2017 - 9:46pm
Also Doug..if you think Trump is religious, you have lost your mind. So explain how his assention could in anyway be attributed to religion except for manipulation?
Which I disagree with completely.  But I digress, I was not trying to dispute you..you just called me out as un knowing on religion.
 
wsucram15 Added Feb 20, 2017 - 10:13pm
William; ok lets say for arguments sake you are right and on a couple of things I completely agree with you. 
The fight never helps though, it kills people. Which I guess is fine if you dont live in a democracy, but we do.  Im just trying to understand your pov.
Remember though, this did not start on November 8th, this started long ago, and has been building for some time now.  Trumps election was a sort of catalyst for people I guess. 
Thanks for your opinion...
 
BillH..he is definitely moving on the Voice of America broadcasting system.  The things he is doing/has done concern me as a free person. I do believe based on the branches of government and commissions being eliminated (my own research) that we are losing our ability to check our government.  There are people keeping current data for some agencies, but it wont be ongoing.
This is what concerns me. 
The media is now one of our system of checks and balances, IDK how anyone can cite reliable sources unless you have access to either independent media (which is very rare), foreign PRESS or independent sources of research/studies which most people cannot afford.  I have watched all the news channels and looked online before I wrote this and I cannot believe some of the reporting on even channels I might prefer, I find problems with.
 
But Douglas..I think you are wrong, I believe if Trump reached out to everyone, all citizens of the US, not just the white people, he would get a break.  He does not handle himself well with minorities.
He really doesnt and I know everyone wants him to turn the country upside down..but part of that country began and will end, with African Americans, Hispanics and Women.
It really is in everyone's best interest for him to accept everyone that is a US citizen.  With citizens he must stop preaching to the base for his ego and theirs, and reach out to the country, it is his job.
 
 
wsucram15 Added Feb 20, 2017 - 10:38pm
Thanks everyone for not arguing...I just wanted some rational feedback on this topic.  I have to do a podcast on  an idea I had about what has happened and how we could stop the divisiveness. I dont think we can right now. 
Not yet anyway.  Its sad..but unfortunately true. There are very few people that are able to listen to both sides without cringing from the nails grinding down the chalkboard.
 
You know in this battle, I can ALMOST see both sides, (not quite on either) and its just unimaginable to me that I had to actually clean load and practice with my gun.  Why, arent we all ultimately fighting for the same things?
I go out and protest sometimes weekly now, and its difficult to watch. People are just as angry as you are, but they quietly protest and I wonder what the final straw will be. 
You know, I like the motivation of the new protests, but they arent motivated on all the right things.  Maybe on some things..but not on all things. We'll see, they are making progress, in spite of what you might hear.
Douglas Proudfoot Added Feb 21, 2017 - 12:59am
Trump made quite a few appearances in predominantly Black venues early in the campaign.  In those appearances, and in other statements about minorities' problems, Trump asked, "What have you got to lose?"  Republican issues for urban minorities are school choice, more job opportunities through a better business environment and lower crime. Trump spoke to all of these issues and addressed them specifically to Blacks.  Trump spent more effort appearing in Black venues than any Republican national candidate since Jack Kemp.  Democrats  prefer teachers' unions to educated minority children.  This conflict of interest is going to cost Democrats minority votes eventually. 
 
Trump is not just a white person's candidate, and he certainly didn't run like one.  The problem is that single party urban political machines have not really delivered for Blacks and Latinos.  To make these bad results irrelevant, Democrats have resorted to identity politics.  Since your identity doesn't change, you vote for the same party no matter how bad a job they do for you.
 
Democrats' preference for CO2 emission control over jobs has cost them working class whites.  I don't think Trump made a racist appeal for white votes.  I think Democrats' policies repelled formerly loyal working class whites.
 
The default reaction I got for any criticism I made of Obama in comment sections was that I was a racist pig.  A lot of older white guys like me met the same assumptions.  We all resent it.  
 
I grew up in Montana. My family was unpopular for paying Indians "white wages." My grandfather was Jewish.  My grandmother was a Methodist Minister's daughter.  I go to church once a year on Easter, whether I need it or not.  I'm a Protestant.  My wife and 5 of my 6 grand children are Jewish.  My sister-in-law is the best thing that ever happened to my little brother.  She's also Black.  I've worked in IT for over 40 years. I have worked with people born in at least 12 different countries and enjoyed working with all of them.  Is there any reason I should have to explain all of this before I can criticize the President of the US because his policies are wrecking the country? 
 
I think liberals need to check their privilege.  They are used to being able to attack their opponents as evil and malevolent, not just dissenting and incorrect.  McCain and Romney were both gentlemen.  Liberals ate them for lunch.  Trump is an abrasive and abusive bastard.  But if you think about it, he's just playing the game using the same rules liberals have used for years to suppress conservatives.  This vicious climate of political discourse is all of those people liberals called racists and Nazis, with no evidence needed, doing the needful to change government policy. 
Dan Paragine Added Feb 21, 2017 - 1:21am
Deconstructing America, removing standards and assessments, stacking the AG , is not fixing anything, except his alibi on Russian deal making. CrimeaRiver.
Our 2 party system is a sham to keep power where it should be and that's NOT with the people. AG/GOP controlled congress, stolen SCOTUS.
So journalists are our only guardians of a democratic republic left. 
Now, Why has Trump been treated differently by the press than other Presidents?
Bee Ess Added Feb 21, 2017 - 8:31am
The thesis of the article has not merit as it is not backed up by any empirical data...
 
Dan, I agree, our 2 party system is sham.   The game is rigged in thier favor.  
 
The media is made up of people and should not be openly trusted just like politicians should not be openly trusted. 
Bee Ess Added Feb 21, 2017 - 9:00am
Was this reported by the main stream teleprompter readers? 
 
Maxine Waters Busted Talking With Russians Hackers… “Impeachable Offense”
 
And then there are these two compete idiots:   
 
Russian hackers prank phone call to senator McCain
 
Russian hackers prank call to senator Lindsey Graham 
 
Only proving that since Graham and McCain are against Trump, it only matters if you are against Trump you will be be covered or not covered.
 
Douglas Proudfoot Added Feb 21, 2017 - 3:26pm
Dan Paragine:  Trump has been treated differently than Obama and both Clintons because he ran as a Republican and won. Obama and Hillary Clinton did a reset with Russia that included State Department approval of the sale of about 20% of US proven uranium reserves to Russian interests who were also big donors to the Clinton Foundation.   Trump's aides had some conversations with alleged Russian agents at some point, but few details that could be used to disprove the allegations are available.  Other than Mike Flynn lying about what was discussed when he talked to the Russian ambassador to the US, no other alleged details of these charges have stood up to scrutiny.  
 
The much vaunted dossier from MI6 said Michael Cohen, Trump's lawyer, had met Russian agents in Prague.  Michael Cohen had never been to Prague in his life.  More recent allegations do not include any details about who, what, when, where, why or how any contact of Trump's staff members with Russians occurred.  So who did the Pravda Press accuse of improper contacts with Russians that amounted to treason?  Trump was accused, not Hillary Clinton.
 
Even the New York Times took notice of the Hillary connection, before burying the story closer to the election:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html?_r=0
 
Every Republican candidate for president has been called Hitler since at least 2004.  Nixon was called Hitler in 1968 and 1972.  No Democrat running for president has ever been called Mao on the verge of a much needed cultural revolution, or an aggressive agrarian reformer like Pol Pot or even a strong leader like Fidel Castro or Hugo Chavez.  Why do you think that is?
 
Most Republicans put up with the abuse from the press silently.  That's why George W. Bush, John McCain and Mitt Romney did so badly in public opinion polls and in elections as Republican party leaders or presidential candidates.  Trump gives as good as he gets from the press.  If they are going to call him Hitler and hint that he committed incest with his daughter, he's not going to be nice or polite to them.   For starters, Trump doesn't have to call on them in his news conferences.  He doesn't have to say he likes their honest coverage, since they are making things up about him all the time.  He can honestly say he prefers Townhall, an on line conservative publication.
 
Freedom of speech and of the press implies freedom of people attacked in the press to make derogatory comments in return with their speeches and in their own press.  The liberal mainstream media, aka the Pravda Press, needs to check their privilege.  They don't get immunity from snide comments if they are alleging incest and treason without any evidence whatsoever, and dreaming about government employee mutinies, CIA disinformation campaigns, military coups or presidential assassination attempts as ways to remove a legitimately elected president Trump.
Bee Ess Added Feb 21, 2017 - 3:38pm
....not to mention, Nazi stands for National Socialism.   How is Socialism Right Wing (even if Bush, McCain and Romney were Right Wing).    Those three clowns are Right of most Democrats, but liberal Progressives they still are...   they are just not as extreme as the Dems when it comes to Socialism...   In fact most politicians are advocates for Progressivism, directly or indirectly.     in the US, big government = big corporation.
Dan Paragine Added Feb 21, 2017 - 3:41pm
They are both shadows. I am not that familiar with clintons uranium deal. I did not support her either. Trumps associations with Russia and his cabinet choices are stacking up to a Crimean connection, that oil, Texas tea, sanctions , and ExxonMobile.. Tillerson and company smell like a deal in the making which included lifting sanctions. What other purpose does his appointments serve?heath care? Infrastructure? Education? US jobs? No.
if there is any truth anywhere it has to come from good journalism . Not an orange enigma or cable news.
wsucram15 Added Feb 21, 2017 - 4:26pm
BeeEss..not trying for your approval. It is an opinion article, but I will stack my facts against yours any day, those facts came from news papers, old time magazines, also historical sites, you cant research from google.  You need a research database. But I have explained that already.
Its how I got old articles on Trump from the 70s and 80s when asked a year ago to research both candidates, I did the same for Clinton.
But I asked peoples opinion..if you want to argue go somewhere else. Im not trying to give people a hard time..you are.
 
Douglas..outstanding remarks. That is what I was looking for, personal insight, like William. I just want your opinion on why you feel this happened and what Trump could do to change it if anything. I wish more people would answer this in a respectful way like yourself. TY
Also not all "progressives" attack opponents as evil, I think that is another image people have. Most of this is being done out of fear. iTs not going to stop either. I have tried to talk to so many people, even sat in on meetings here and in DC that I wont rally for and people are defending themselves.  There is SO much going on, it is head spinning. 
Dan you have done a great job on the progressive side, intelligent answers.
I am at a point though, with some officials, where this divisiveness must at least slow down in order for the President to get done what he needs to do w/o people getting hurt unless he is again violating the law. But it seems to be getting worse.
 
Greg Sturmer Added Feb 22, 2017 - 3:15am
Last night in London about 2000 people held an anti-Trump rally in Trafalgar square. It showed the three key features we are getting used to.
 
1) Embarrassing, childish and formulaic speeches quoting press articles as fact.
2) Paid sound systems and professional media and social media PR organisation with pre-scripted participation chanting of absurd and irrelevant slogans.
3) Complete avoidance of any UK based issues including the site chosen being right next to one of the biggest concentrations of regular homeless people in Europe.
 
I have no idea who is paying for these so-called protests, but somebody is. And it is beyond strange, to witness these triggered zombies regurgitating establishment media bias and thinking they are protesting. 
 
When people are protesting for the status quo on the back of establishment media articles only two things can be true.
 
1) The revolution is far wider than anyone cares to let on.
2) The masters are challenged and afraid and are not intending to go quietly into the night.
 
Those in the know will keep their eyes on the Stoke by election. It may be that all these silly and ultimately pointless protests on top of all the bias in the media, is moving the political centre of the UK even faster to the right than even the most optimistic conservative believes.
 
If UKIP take Stoke from the Labour Party you can expect a tsunami of panic to wash through the liberatti, and an avalanche of establishment media insults and name calling proffered to the zombies as a pacifier.
 
Americans should be aware that the UK as a whole is massively pro-Trump and many simply don't care what is in the press anymore because it no longer speaks to them.

Only an ever decreasing minority fail to understand the control and bias in the press in the USA is evidenced by and with exactly the same controllers in the UK. Global press corp only has one story and it isn't even really relevant to the UK.

It has got so bad that bias is now simply a given in polite conversation and the issue for most people has moved on to a discussion on whether or not the worst offenders in the media will give up this nonsense and go back to proper journalism before they lose all their readership? Or. as the majority believe, are they suck in their own death spiral, chasing a core readership that no longer exists outside their bubble?

Example: There were riots by immigrant communities in two European countries last night. The one in Sweden was in an area where 75% of the population are immigrants and it occurred because a drug dealer was arrested. These are facts.

How was this news reported to you? 

In our so called media they ran with Trump and his "Fake news" about Sweden, and many outlets ignored the riots all together. I kid you not, yesterday was a crazy day even by recent standards!
Bee Ess Added Feb 22, 2017 - 7:37am
George Soros and other global elitists who want to take down all western countries so they can implement the New World Order. 
 
Here is an example of how the news does not report news:
 
Freed to kill in a sanctuary city: Illegal immigrant gangster 'robbed then murdered man at rail station' weeks after being released in Denver despite request from ICE to keep him jailed for deportation

One officer killed and another wounded in California after gang member opened fire when they responded to a traffic accident


They have an agenda.   They only report and make up what they want you to hear.   Go look at the history of Hilter leading up to WW2.   He was an agitator (community organizer).   Sound familiar? 
 
@wsucram16, I am giving you my opinion based on your opinion.  I think you are being disingenuous with your excuse for citing your research.   I am not giving you approval or disapproval.  I am citing your lack of any slight piece of evidence.  
 
Obama did not get barely any scrutiny from the press and they fawned all over him as he left.    Most of the major outlets are sycophants.
Greg Sturmer Added Feb 22, 2017 - 8:31am
Yep I agree until there is something so dam crazy everyone is talking about it so they have to report it.  We also had just such a peachy news story yesterday. 

Get this ! A member of a migrant community in the UK went to fight for the Taliban in 2002, inspired by the attack on the WTC. He got caught by US soldiers and was sent to Guantanamo, Human rights lawyers got him released and the British public (that's me and a few others) paid him GBP 1 million pounds for illegal detention. Anyway yesterday he blew himself up for ISIS in Syria.

You seriously couldn't make that up. Any part of it. It is so crazy it actually made it into every newspaper. A first in many months.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/21/british-man-launched-isil-suicide-attack-guantanamo-bay-detainee/
Bee Ess Added Feb 22, 2017 - 8:55am
Bee Ess Added Feb 22, 2017 - 8:56am
Bee Ess Added Feb 22, 2017 - 11:06am



 


 






target="_blank">1. Nets Cater Exclusively to Liberal Criticisms of Trump’s New Immigration Rules
 
The ABC, CBS, and NBC evening newscasts seemed to be in a panic Tuesday after the White House signed off new directives to the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) instructing them to crackdown on illegal immigration. “Tonight, President Trump's immigration crackdown revealed,” anchor David Muir freaked during the tease of World News Tonight, “The new and sweeping plan to deport undocumented immigrants across this country. Who will be targeted?” 










target="_blank">2. Nets Ignore Violent Immigrant Riot in Sweden After Mocking Trump
 
After spending literally days mocking President Donald Trump for inventing a “Sweden Incident” involving Middle East immigrants, the liberal Big Three networks were hanging their heads in shame Tuesday morning in the wake a violent immigrant riot that broke out in Stockholm the night before. “Police in Sweden are investigating a riot that broke out overnight in a predominantly immigrant suburb of Stockholm,” announced Fox News anchor Bret Baier during Special Report, yet it went unreported by the nets all day. 










target="_blank">3. Reporter: Trump Thinks ‘White America’ Built Country
 
Of course, Donald Trump visiting the African American History Museum in Washington D.C. is a problem for journalists. April Ryan on Tuesday wondered what was the point of the President’s visit, considering he thinks that “white America” built the country. ABC reporter Cecilia Vega also demanded to know if Trump will show forgiveness to illegals. 










target="_blank">4. USA Today’s Przybyla Suggests Anti-Semitism Is Now ‘Mainstream’ Behavior on the Right
 
Appearing as a guest on Tuesday’s Hardball, MSNBC political analyst and USA Today senior political reporter Heidi Przybyla brazenly argued that anti-Semitism is becoming “mainstream” on the right after having been only a “fringe, alt-right, white nationalist movement.”










target="_blank">5. CNN Allows Left-Wing Guest to Accuse Trump of Creating 'Cancer of Anti-Semitism'
 
On CNN Tuesday afternoon, Steven Goldstein, director of the Anne Frank Center for Mutual Respect bashed and lambasted President Donald Trump for his statement that morning denouncing bigotry, especially anti-Semitism, and pinned recent Jew hatred on Trump's campaign, and now, administration. Beforehand, a panel on the network's Inside Politics discussed Trump's campaign and presidency's possible affect on hate crimes against Jews.










target="_blank">6. Andrea Mitchell Praises Lefty Protests, After Being Frightened by Tea Party
 
At the top of her 12 p.m. ET hour MSNBC show on Tuesday, anchor Andrea Mitchell enthusiastically touted liberal protesters showing up to congressional town hall meetings: “Republican Congress members getting an earful back home as they prepare to rollout their plan to repeal ObamaCare.” However, back in 2010, Mitchell was frightened by such “angry” displays by Tea Party demonstrators attending public meetings with Democratic lawmakers.




Greg Sturmer Added Feb 22, 2017 - 2:20pm
Interesting stuff no idea what is real and what is not anymore. But Trump being an anti-Semite is pretty stupid given the love shown for him by Israel.  I am guessing but no Jew would be unaware or against  the first American prepared to entertain moving the Embassy to Jerusalem.
Bee Ess Added Feb 22, 2017 - 3:30pm
True.
 
I love how the pink vaginal hats are excreting their fluids over a comment caught on tape over 10 years ago by Trump, but they are cold when it comes to Hillary on the cover up and smearing of Bill's sexual assault victim's as well as THE MEDIA.
 
...and, I am sure Hillary said the same thing about grabbing vaginas as well...
wsucram15 Added Feb 22, 2017 - 5:14pm
OMG..it was information that was historical. Jesussssssss. You dont have to like my sources.
I am aware of the incident in Sweden and NEVER said one side was better than the other.  ALTHOUGH you and others like you push for me to do so.
I just dont like Trump. Period. Not from media but from my own research on my own time.  You know there are those of us that actually do that.
I also dont care about Hillary.
Douglas Proudfoot Added Feb 22, 2017 - 7:02pm
Enter your comment here...
Bee Ess Added Feb 23, 2017 - 8:12am
What sources?
Bee Ess Added Feb 23, 2017 - 8:12am
Doug, nice comment...   :-)
Douglas Proudfoot Added Feb 23, 2017 - 10:19am
The discontent in Western democracies is due to their becoming less and less democratic.  The problem is increasingly arbitrary decisions governments are making supposedly to take care of their people.  Progressives world-wide seem to believe that large segments of the population are too ignorant and stupid to make their own decisions.  This runs counter to John Locke’s basic principle that government requires the consent of the governed.
 
In the US, consent of the governed is the basic principle the country was built on.  John Locke first coined the phrase as part of his “Two Treatises on Government,” published in 1690 to justify replacing King James II of England with William and Mary in 1688.  So it’s important in Britain as well.  Consent of the governed is what allowed Parliament to legislate the Act of Settlement in 1701, which set the rule of Succession for the British Monarchy that’s still in force today.
 
Locke thought that government exists to preserve the life, liberty and property of each person it governs.  This phrase, edited to make it more user friendly, was used in the Declaration of Independence in 1776.  The chief purpose of government in Western democracies today is to regulate life, constrict liberty and redistribute property, usually without the consent of the governed.
 
Current US government practice is that almost all new laws that pass Congress are passed as shells, which are filled in later by regulatory agencies, executive orders and court rulings.  The problem with regulations, executive orders and court decisions is that none of the processes used to make these things is designed to get the consent of the governed.  Conversely, the voters can’t hold the regulatory agencies, executive departments and judges responsible for their actions.  In the US, regulatory boards are appointed by the president with the advice and consent of the Senate, to fixed terms of office.  Judges are appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate for life terms.
 
While I’m not quite as clear about how things work in Europe, it appears to me that the European Union does business the same way.  Most of their important policies seem to be the result of regulatory agencies or court decisions.  Voters don’t get to hold the decision makers accountable.
 
Bypassing legislatures makes the flow of new regulations arbitrary and largely unpredictable.  What are, in effect, laws come out of murky processes in back rooms at regulatory agencies or government executive departments.  Then they are subject to review in the courts where the decisions are also hard to predict.  The process is like a ping pong match, and the ball bounces around with almost no attempt to gain the consent of the people who will bear the burden of the new rules.  The chaotic nature of regulatory processes inhibits long term private sector investment.  You’re not going to invest in something which takes 5 or 10 years to pay off if it could be regulated out of existence in 3 to 6 months.
 
In the US, we have an especially virulent form of this chaos called the “Living Constitution.”  Most people probably think that the Constitution is like a contract.  The meaning of a contract is fixed when the contract is signed.  So logically, the meaning of the Constitution or a Constitutional Amendment should be fixed at the time it’s ratified.  The “Living Constitution” doctrine says that the meaning of the Constitution changes over time, based on changing modern conditions.  This works out as an excuse to alter the Constitution in the Supreme Court by finding new meaning in the Constitution to suit progressive fashion.  In the past, Justices had to decide based on what the law or the Constitution said, whether they like it or not.  Now Justices can decide cases based on what they would like the law to be.
 
The president wields almost all of the power of the modern regulatory state in the US.  He or she issues executive orders, in effect controls all regulatory agencies and appoints all judges, including Supreme Court Justices.  The appointment of “Living Constitution” Justices was extremely important to the left.  Because of Antonin Scalia’s death and the age and ill health of 2 or 3 other Justices, whoever won 2016 was going to be decisive in deciding whether the “Living Constitution” doctrine prevailed or not.  The normal ways to change the Constitution require 3/4ths of the States to ratify an amendment.  Since Republicans control at least one house of the state legislature, that isn’t going to happen for progressives.  Their only shot at big changes was cheating with a “Living Constitution” in the Supreme Court.  Th
Douglas Proudfoot Added Feb 23, 2017 - 10:31am
.  The appointment of “Living Constitution” Justices was extremely important to the left.  Because of Antonin Scalia’s death and the age and ill health of 2 or 3 other Justices, whoever won 2016 was going to be decisive in deciding whether the “Living Constitution” doctrine prevailed or not.  The normal ways to change the Constitution require 3/4ths of the States to ratify an amendment.  Since Republicans control at least one house of the state legislature, that isn’t going to happen for progressives.  Their only shot at big changes was cheating with a “Living Constitution” in the Supreme Court.  That’s why Trump published a list of 21 judges he would consider appointing to the Supreme Court.  All of them were original meaning judges, not “Living Constitution” judges.  This list gave conservative Republicans, like me, the confidence to vote for Trump no matter how bad his manners were.  Voting for Hillary would have erased the Constitution by allowing it to be completely redefined.
 
President Obama was especially energetic in concentrating as much power as possible into the Oval Office.  Obama used his pen and phone without restraint in his second term to avoid having to deal with Republicans in Congress.  He created precedents that were safe only if Hillary Clinton succeeded him.  The Democrats went all in, betting that Hillary Clinton would win in 2016 and secure Obama’s legacy.
 
What happened was a Trump victory.  All of the pen and phone power Obama concentrated in the Oval Office will be used to undo the entire hope and change of the last 8 years.  Trump will make at least two Supreme Court appointments.  The Justices Trump appoints will be deciding cases for about 20 years.
 
This suddenly disastrous outcome has completely unhinged the American left, and even some of the Republican establishment.  Instead of permanently remaking the country, the left lost everything to a loud mouthed reality TV star with a lower class accent and abrasive manners, who insults the press constantly with tweets at 3 AM.  The Us mainstream media dreams of ways to bring down Trump because they have no other way to fundamentally remake America the way they planned.  They have even gotten as far as speculating about a CIA mutiny or a military coup in the US.  The Pravda Press is in complete denial, looking for any way to roll the dice again for even a small chance to undo the damage..  The left's desperation measures the magnitude of their reversal.
Bee Ess Added Feb 23, 2017 - 11:34am
Doug, very well said.  The other lie besides "living constitution" is that the Supreme Court is a co-equal "branch" of the government.    
Bee Ess Added Feb 27, 2017 - 8:59am
http://clashdaily.com/2017/02/official-federal-judge-finds-cnn-guilty-pushing-fake-news-not-satire/?

Recent Articles by Writers wsucram15 follows.