The end of the Democratic Nations

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The age of Democratic nations is swiftly coming to a close. This is mathematically accurate.
The birthrate in the UK is too low for a sustainable society and culture. However, Muslims are immigrating, legally or illegally, to the UK by the thousands. By 2100, the Muslim population will be, statistically, greater than all other resident populations combined. As a result, by majority rule, they will vote to implement Sharia Law throughout the UK.
Canada will follow soon after as they have opened their borders to the Muslims and their birthrate is also not sustainable. The USA will follow by 2200. However, the US culture will be lost by 2100 as will Europe. The immigration of Hispanics and Muslims will greatly outnumber the current citizen makeup by then. But because of the large Hispanic influx, it will take much longer for the US to become a Muslim state. The US birthrate is way below a society's sustainable level.
This, the greatest nation on earth, the greatest nation in the history of the world, will pass into history. As a result, the world will sink into a second "Dark Age".
Prohibiting the Muslims from entering the USA could slow down this movement. True assimilation into our culture by both the Hispanics and Muslim immigrants could turn the tide. But neither seems to be the direction of the immigrants. Does anyone know of math facts that show something different? I sure hope so.

Comments

George N Romey Added Feb 21, 2017 - 3:23pm
Joe its very hard to know what society will look like in the future.  Do you think that 50 years ago Americans would have thought the talk of fascism would be again on the front burner?  I believe the US is failing because the corporate state has taken the means of sustainable living away from the production class due to outsourcing, insourcing, corporate downsizing, change the types of job. We are becoming a much poorer country which will ultimately cause another global economic class.  
 
This is the reason for low birth rates.  This will also impact Muslim and Hispanic populations as there is more competition for low wage jobs.  I see a much poorer and more unstable America, regardless of the racial makeup. 
Ryan Messano Added Feb 21, 2017 - 3:56pm
You are right, Joe.  Low birth rates are the doom of all societies.  The United States is destroying itself with contraception, porn, adultery, fornication, abortion, and homosexuality.  People don't realize their selfish choices affect societies and the world.
Ryan Messano Added Feb 21, 2017 - 3:57pm
Islam is already seeking to subvert our nation and if allowed to continue, they will make us into a Sharia nation within fifty years, while Americans sit and try to have fun.
Shane Dean Added Feb 21, 2017 - 7:38pm
I would think as someone of Asian descent, you would not be so quick to run to the typically white power idea of brown races or another religion being the downfall of the US or democracy.  First, Islamic nations have been going after the US almost since its creation, but no one really reads history any more so most folks aren't aware of that.  After over 200 years, Muslims have not toppled us.  Additionally, Mexico and the US have have troubles in the past, yet Mexico still has not taken back their territory.  
 
I do believe we need to be careful with immigration, but that has always been an issue.  While I believe there are real threats to our nation, I also know from history that we have met challenges before and I am confident the US will meet those challenges again.  The fact that the liberal haters of our nation were defeated this election cycle gives me hope that the US is not going anywhere. 
 
As a final note, I would say that all you have said about Muslims and Mexicans have been said about your ancestors and my Irish ones too.  The great thing about the United States is we all come from other places and our country is based more on the nobility of production rather than bloodlines.  I know this is not always the case, but this is still more a land of opportunity than just about anywhere else.
Ryan Messano Added Feb 21, 2017 - 8:14pm
Good point, Shane.  My ancestors were Italian and endured ostracism and racism, but the issue with Islam is Sharia is incompatible with our Constitution.  All religions are welcome to our nation, except those which seek to subvert our Constitution.  Islam will subvert our liberty and Democracy if we are not wise as serpents and harmless as doves.  Because the average American has never studied Islam's harms for themselves, we are badly endangered. 
Jeffry Gilbert Added Feb 22, 2017 - 10:33am
Those that really run things stopped giving even lip service to democracy decades ago. What we live under today is fascism - the melding of the needs of the state with the needs of the corporation. The only things that will cure it are the guillotine or thermonuclear weapons. I'm thinking the later will be used sooner rather than later. 
Bill Kamps Added Feb 22, 2017 - 10:51am
Joe, pretty good you can predict 200 years in the future.  I presume you are fabulously wealthy since you probably have made investments based on your ability to foretell the future.
 
"Predictions are very difficult, especially about the future".  Yogi Berra
Joe Chiang Added Feb 22, 2017 - 10:55am
@Shane.  Correct on all points.  But I was just looking at the math.  No society or their culture have survived with less than 2:2 birth rate.  The US has less than a 2:2 birthrate as well as the entire UK.  It is economics that drives the lower birthrate.  As economic affluence increases, and the more affluent the family the lower the birthrate.  The Muslims and Hispanics are immigrating to this country in greater numbers than our birthrate can balance out.  Therefore, at some point, their numbers will be greater.  Its just the math
Billy Roper Added Feb 22, 2017 - 1:12pm
Replacement migration is cultural genocide. If what happened to the Native Americans was wrong, if colonialism was wrong, then importing third worlders to White nations is wrong, too. Shane is a self-loathing anti-White, and obviously not very well educated.
Shane Dean Added Feb 22, 2017 - 1:15pm
@Joe, you are assuming numbers will stay static, and humans just don't do that.  Also, the vast majority of Hispanics are Catholic and have established members of communities all over our country, and are very intolerant of Muslims.  If anything, the increase in number of Hispanic population will like push back against Muslim policy building.  You can't just look at numbers with people, you need to look at sociology and history, both of which yank the rug from your numbers game.  
I have known a lot of Hispanic folk in my lifetime, and while I may not agree with everything most of the have done, the vast majority of them just want a better life for themselves and their families.  They have no interest in upsetting how things work in the US.  Things work pretty much the way they want to.  If the Muslim population really tried to make fundamental changes in the US, I would bet every cent I will ever make that Hispanic communities would be one of the first to rise up in arms against it.  I have been to Mexico several times and they are extremely critical of Islam and Middle Eastern people.  Frankly, I am not even sure why you included them in your piece.  They are practically the polar opposite of Muslims.
Ryan Messano Added Feb 22, 2017 - 1:20pm
Doesn't matter if it is hispanic, Islamic, asian, or white.  No one is welcome here who does not come here legally, or who wishes to subvert our government.  Joe's post addresses this.  Shane, you are too hoodwinked by the media.  Maybe stop watching the idiot box, so you stop parroting liberal talking points.  We don't care about your individual experience, and neither should you.  History teaches patterns that are far more important than any of our subjective experiences.  
Billy Roper Added Feb 22, 2017 - 1:25pm
This is an interesting scholarly paper which discusses your point, Joe:
 
https://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/salter2002estimatgenetinter.pdf
Shane Dean Added Feb 22, 2017 - 1:41pm
How am I hoodwinked by the media, Ryan?  Have you heard one reporter say, "Don't worry about Muslims, the Hispanics will keep them in check."?  Seriously, do you actually read anything anyone says?  I swear you just comment without thought or context.  And I fully agree and support any measures to make our immigration process better, including singling out groups from areas that have been a threat to us.  I have stated this repeatedly.  And Joe's post is just a numbers game without any real facts or basis in the reality of human behavior, so no, he has NOT addressed this.  And what liberal talking points have I parroted?  Also, my "personal experience" is quite valid as I have known a very large cross section of Hispanic people, so actually have some background in this area, kind of like a sociological study of people.  And you are right, history DOES teach patterns, such as Hispanic people HATING Muslims and the threat they pose to Catholicism.  You sincerely do not know what you are talking about and seem to be around just to insult and demean people, rambling out of context or even completely off subject.  You also seem to have missed Joe's comment where he conceded I was correct on all points.
Finally, I am a Libertarian, NOT a liberal.  Read a book and discover the difference.  But please actually read all the words this time, don't just skim and make another unrelated comment to what you read,
Ryan Messano Added Feb 22, 2017 - 2:15pm
The liberal talking points are that we should have "love", "inclusion", and "tolerance" for all.  What they leave out is they have to break the law, and so are hateful towards the law, exclusive of the law, and intolerant of the law.  I know thousands of latino's as well, and am fond of many.  But my view of the issue is not based on personal feelings, it is based on the dispassionate law.  
 
That you resort to intellectual contempt to try and mask your irrationality is something liberals do.  I read your words, and understand you and liberals better than you understand yourselves.  You will get angry about this, and probably tell me I am conceited and arrogant, LOL, but it's true.  Libertarians and liberals are clueless about the moral laws that guide us, and are quite easy to figure out.  The problem is guiding them, when they haven't got the sense to guide themselves.  That is tricky.  
 
You do not understand history, but its not too late for you to start.  You need to learn history a lot better than understanding that Hispanics and Muslims are at odds.  You would do well to understand Muslims have been dangerous since Muhammad started them in the early 600's.  They are the biggest murder machine in history.    And they spread in stages.  
Shane Dean Added Feb 22, 2017 - 4:11pm
Considering you have mentioned a few times you consider yourself a Christian, I find it interesting you have no problem going completely against Christ's constant exhortations to love one another, without regard to anything else.  He even exhorted us to love our enemies.  Yet you never express any of that.  All the "liberal talking points" are what Christ directed us to do.  Apparently you glossed over his words as well as others.
 
My contempt for you is not based on any intellectual trick; I call out your fallacies as I see them and nothing more.  No smoke and mirrors.  
 
As far as history, you have again ignored many times when I have said Muslims are not historically very kind to any new culture they have come in contact with, but have introduced themselves at the point of a sword or a gun.  You also ignored, AGAIN, when I said I actually support Trump's plan for national security reasons.
 
As far as moral laws, it is very simple.  Don't hurt other people.  Don't take their stuff.  Treat all humans as equal.  Christ has said this, as well as many others of moral authority.  I don't think you are conceited; you are clueless to your own contradictions and hypocrisy.
 
All this is like I said before.  YOU DON'T READ WHAT OTHERS ACTUALLY SAY.  Or you only read another to go off on another unrelated tangent filled with contradictions.  And you will probably continue to ignore 99% of what I just said here as well.
Joe Chiang Added Feb 22, 2017 - 4:45pm
@Shane. What are you talking about???????? I am a Christian, but that has nothing to do with 2 + 2 = 4. I was citing the mathematics.
It is true that Christians are supposed to accept people, but your error is that refers to OTHER CHRISTIANS, not people trying to kill you. Even Christ said to turn the other cheek. That means to permit yourself to be struck twice. But we have 9/11 New York and the Pentagon. There are no scriptures to affirm accepting continued abuse from anyone.
I have not ignored your Muslim reference. It was just not relevant to the discussion, a mathematical discussion. Muslims historically have indeed used the force of arms to expand their religion. What is going on currently is a new attack strategy? They are planning to take over the west by immigration and overpopulating the west. They have almost succeeded in doing this in the UK and will have by about 2100. The US culture will no longer exist by about the same time, but will not be Muslim for another half century because of Hispanic immigration. But both Hispanic and Muslim together will end US culture by 2100 and the fight will be between those two subcultures as to which will replace the US culture and when.
As for President Trump's National security plans, I have no objections. I did not realize you needed personalized affirmation.
However, the insults and name calling are very childish.
Ryan Messano Added Feb 22, 2017 - 5:04pm
Shane, open rebuke is better than secret love.  Maybe read Matt 23?  Because if Christ ripped the Pharisees severely, he certainly would rip the baby killing Democrats, and barbaric Muslims even worse.  As a man, you really don't understand love.  Love does not sit idly by while major wrongdoing is in process.  
 
Your contempt for me does not bother me in the least.  Hurt people hurt people, and this is how you deal with those who perceive are threats to you.  Not the best way, but it's the way you use.  Contempt, despite, malice, and disdain don't bother me.  It's par for the course, and it's a common tactic used by those with a lot of pride and who can't be corrected.
 
I'm glad we agree on Islam, because they have been dangerous for 1,400 years and aren't going to change now because people play nice.
 
Au contraire, I do read and respond to what others say, simply not in the manner they like or expect, and that can be frustrating.
Shane Dean Added Feb 22, 2017 - 5:28pm
A threat?  YOU!  Now you have branched into comedy I see.  And funny you bring up the Pharisees because you are acting just like them.  Ignoring the message of Christ to pick it apart for your own inscrutable purposes.  And you talking about malice toward others brings you towering hypocrisy back around.  You throw malice at almost everyone, even those who disagree with you sometimes.  Also your accusing me of acting out of pride.  Pride in what exactly?
 
And you only respond to what you can argue or stir the pot with.  You ignore the rest, or just throw in comments on your agenda that have zero to do with anything anyone said.
 
And if as a man I cannot understand love, then neither can you.  Unless that isn't actually your picture you are using.  Do you even read what you write?  Seriously, you get more ridiculous with each self contradiction.
Ryan Messano Added Feb 22, 2017 - 7:52pm
Telling the truth is not popular, but it's not malice.  You simply wish to have your ego stroked and get indignant when it's not.  The entire NT is full of rebukes, but you love the mawkish sentimental nonsense that has nothing to do with scripture and everything to do with your imagination.  
 
I respond to much, but airplanes don't change course until they are off course, so sometimes it's not as profitable to praise what is right as it is to prune what is wrong.  It is a common liberal argument to discredit conservatives to throw up the smokescreen, "off topic".  Mark Henry Smith tried it on here many times, and so have many other liberals.  I've seen the argument at least 12 times in the last year.  LOL, and I just saw it in Antioch when I went to speak last week.  It never  fails.  Contradict a non conservatives and they will tell you you are off topic.  Because the only one's who are on topic, are those who agree with them.  LOL. Clever stratagem though.  
 
No, you don't understand that correction is very profitable, and unless you are a bastard, God uses chastisement, as Hebrews 12 says.
Shane Dean Added Feb 22, 2017 - 10:27pm
This reminds me of the Monty Python skit about a man who goes in for an argument.  An utter waste because you and I are not even talking about the same thing.
Joe Chiang Added Feb 23, 2017 - 8:59am
Guys, thank you for the discussion and I especially thank you for keeping it civil.  One problem in the US today is a lack of civility and serious discourse.
May I point out that my theorem is based on historical statistics.  It has nothing to do with what I want or believe.  The data says western civilization will fall and soon.  The Muslim world understands this and plans to be the society that replaces western civilization.  When they do, the world will enter a new "Dark Age" (a period of a lack of intellectual enlightenment).  So how do we or can we change the direction of history.  This course we are on is real unlike global warming. 
Billy Roper Added Feb 23, 2017 - 9:06am
Joe, I agree with your conclusion, and the reason behind it. My hope is that the coming collapse and balkanization will lead to a resurgence of ethnostates, which are inherently more homogeneous and stable, in the ashes of the glorious multiracial empires.
Billy Roper Added Feb 23, 2017 - 9:08am
Ryan, you and I disagree on many issues, but I respect your skill with prose and the written word in debate. Very adept rhetorical moves.
Joe Chiang Added Feb 23, 2017 - 9:15am
@Billy.  Your comments just triggered a thought.  Perhaps the tidal turn can be delayed.  If the USA breaks up into 50 states or larger regions, the Muslims can take over the willing liberal states that will embrace Islam at least until Sharia Law is enacted, then of course, it will be too late.  But the other states (Blue states?) could remain separate and sane. 
Billy Roper Added Feb 23, 2017 - 9:24am
Actually, it would be red states that unite into New America, more homogeneous and implicitly if not explicitly White, in the upper south and midwest. The region between the Appalachians and Rockies. Yes, the liberal coasts, the blue areas, can become Sharia law countries, since they support Muslim immigration, and we don't.
Tom C. Purcell Added Feb 23, 2017 - 11:44am
Joe,
 
Good article and I agree with your last comment.  Pardon the language, but the far left is begging to be raped and pillaged.  Sanctuary states?  What the hell is that?  Suicide states.
Joe Chiang Added Feb 23, 2017 - 11:53am
@Billy, you are right, I am switching my blue and red (maybe color blind?)  LOL
@Tom.  Agreed they are inviting being raped and pillaged just as the Koran says to do.
Dino Manalis Added Feb 23, 2017 - 12:34pm
We all dream of democracy, especially those who live under authoritarian or totalitarian regimes.  Democracy isn't anarchy, it's based on laws; values; and a constitution that people have to abide by.  We all need stability to make healthy progress.
Stone-Eater Friedli afronum Added Feb 23, 2017 - 3:36pm
Joe
 
Democracy never existed, same as communism or socialism. It was ALWAYS economic dictatorship with a pseudo-intellectual cover-up.
George N Romey Added Feb 23, 2017 - 4:17pm
SEF the realization for Democracy in the United States did not occur until the 20th century.  Prior to the industrial revolution people lived mostly on family farms or small towns.  Feuds were local and often solved by a gun or a fist.  Its only when we began to live like pack rats and work under the state of the corporation did anyone start to give a damn about "democracy." 
Eileen de Bruin Added Feb 23, 2017 - 4:51pm
Hmmm. In the gene bank of we great mongrels in the world, is a huge mix of all nations and races. At some point or other, their effects will emerge - as they are doing now.  In a situation whereby a people would introduce sharia law, even their own intellect will be questioning its relevance. It is subtle, I grant you, but I could not imagine following the rules of the Methodist Church that my grandparents belonged to, let alone live by some idealism that this was the only way to be on earth. There are many people, many of us, who think for themselves without having the fear of eternal damnation for that rationale or pondering or witnessing. Getting in touch with ourselves can include our ancestors and can include our potential higher view point, with the benefit of history or hindsight. 
The US of A is a huge pool of all of the nations of the world. Look at Europe and its rich mix.
In Arab countries are people living normal lives and who might be atheist or agnostic or just cynical. We are afraid of a label: "muslim".
That radicalism is engendered because of the war politics and the idea that we need an enemy to point our finger at, is a cleft stick. 
If we have to fear being inundated by a newer civilisation then perhaps we can ponder and wonder at how all of the historical genes will play out in individuals in the future.
What is it that we are trying to protect, I wonder? What is it that we fear explicitly? Ok, I know that we have had 9/11 and all of the other acts of terrorism - but what about the acts of terrorism going on in the middle east in the name of valid war mongering, apparently "fighting" Islam where thousands of people have been slaughtered? This is terrorism too. We are not fighting "Islam" we are cultivating radicalists who just want power and money and/or ways to get out of their bombed cities and "get back" at some general enemy in the "West".  
What is it that you fear? Is it valid?
 
 
Ryan Messano Added Feb 23, 2017 - 5:08pm
And that reminds me, Shane, that using television as an arbiter or guide in life is utterly futile.   If you stopped relying upon it for so much of your thinking, we'd agree on a lot more, I'm convinced.  
 
Welcome, Joe, and I agree with you.  Personally, I'm convinced unless we take our advanced technology and go back to 1776 morality, and get rid of the useless tech, like television, that there will be no salvation from our predicament. What a nightmare scenario, having to be under Islamic rule.  I would rather die. I guarantee you, I will die resisting the Islamic death cult, before I will ever submit peacefully.  
 
Thank you Billy, your calm and poise is exemplary as well.  While I do disagree on much as well with you, your calm certitude is admirable. 
 
Oh, disagree, Joe.  Islam can never be given an inch.  They will never be at peace until the entire world recognizes Allah.  The only time they are the religion of peace is when all of us unbelievers are conquered, in pieces, or have surrendered.  
 
Also, Dino, our Founders hated a Democracy, because they didn't want the inept, corrupt, and incompetent (today's Democrat party) to band together and rule in a kakocracy (rule or government by the worst of the people).  They designed the electoral college to avoid this.  They also realized time exposes all fraudulent ideas, and the Democrats huge lies are being exposed to the light of day, along with their hate, and ignorance.  The Republicans are only growing stronger with the Democrat hysteria on full display.  
 
Eileen, respectfully disagree.  While your grandparents Methodism may not appeal to you, (and Methodism doesn't appeal to me either) the Christianity that our Founders followed is what made us great, and it is by departing from that, that we are being made weak.  
 
Islam is a horrible religion, and has  been for 1,400 years. Muhammad would be in prison, being severely abused by the inmates, as a level 5 sex addict today.  He beheaded entire tribes who had done no violence to him, and he slept with 9 year old Aisha, his best friends daughter!  Also, how can you think there is nothing wrong with Islam, when they have 30,000 terror instances in the last 15 years, and the rest of the religions have a combined 18?  
Shane Dean Added Feb 23, 2017 - 6:14pm
Actually Ryan, I hardly ever watch TV because 99% of it is pure trash. But good job making assumptions based on nothing...again.
Ryan Messano Added Feb 23, 2017 - 6:48pm
Well, you use it as a rationale for your thinking, and Monty Python was a nonsense movie if ever one existed.  I've never seen it, but I know people who quote it religiously.  
Eileen de Bruin Added Feb 24, 2017 - 3:43am
Ryan Messano: thank you for your comments. These are important points to raise. I need to ponder this for some hours. Whilst I struggle with identity due only to Christian or Islamic culture ( or Jewish or Buddist etc...) there are key fundamental issues which have to be addresses. I shall be back later.
Billy Roper Added Feb 24, 2017 - 8:48am
Ryan, "Eileen" is a transgendered male. Check out HIS recommendations and endorsements on HIS Linked In profile.
Almudena Alonso Added Feb 24, 2017 - 9:40am
I find the assimilation between Hispanics and Muslims very inappropriate. Hispanics are Christians, mostly Catholics, and their religion does not encourage killing the unfaithful.
What would the author think if we assimilate them also to the Orientals? Just as unfair.
Joe Chiang Added Feb 24, 2017 - 12:50pm
I teach history as well as math. Historically, the Orientals WERE discriminated against by the US. They were greatly hindered in immigration until will after the Korean Conflict. The reasoning was because their presence would pollute the white race majority.
In history, we can go back to origins for what the pure religion taught. Considering the religions based on The One True God, the Jewish religion began first. That came from Abraham and Sarah and their line. But, the Jewish religion did not really form as a religion until the 10 Commandments were given, followed by the first 5 books of the Bible. All those who obeyed Gods Commandments would go to Heaven.
Abraham also had a child by his wife's maid, Ishmael. Ishmael began the religion of Islam. After Muhammad, he modified Islam with the Koran he wrote and this became the Muslim religion. Muslims are rapists, thieves, and terrorists. Those following Islam are not necessarily bad. They are still following the One True God they call Allah. This is still the God of Abraham.
Christ's lineage has been traced from Adam through both Monarch lines and both Monarch and Priesthood lines to end with Christ. He is the last legal Jewish Monarch and Priest. He lived a life that followed all 10 Commandments in letter and spirit. Followers of his teachings were eventually called Christians maybe 100 years after His death and resurrection (witnessed by over 5000 => way more than need in any court of law currently or throughout history. All denominations, including Catholic, vary from Christ's original teachings.
Original Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are all teaching to obey God's commandments.
Eastern religions, Confucianism, Buddhism, Ancestor worship, etc. are all self-sacrificing and often include self-deprivation. I know, this is very generalized and could be a year-long high school course or semester college course.
@Eileen. Mutts may be more accurate. LOL. But, there is the issue of the influence of heredity and environment on the individual. This alone makes a great discussion. But today, I believe the environment exerts the greater influence. I teach on an Indian Reservation. Native Americans, historically are very intelligent and very hard workers or their tribes would not have survived.
The white man corrupted their culture and destroyed it. There are a few who try and keep some parts alive. But apathy is now the general culture. They do not have their traditional culture and they do not want to accept the white culture, the result is no culture, apathy. This is learned from their environment and is not natural.
@Almudena. No one has said Hispanics and Muslims are assimilating, as they are not. If they did assimilate into US culture, then there would be no risk of our culture dying. It is the very fact that they are not assimilating that will result in the extinction of Democratic nations, in my opinion.
Thomas Napers Added Feb 25, 2017 - 3:54am
The hour before the 2016 presidential election, it was predicted that Trump would lose in a landslide.  With only a quarter and a half to play, the Patriots had a .02% of winning the Super Bowl. 
 
Hopefully those anecdotal examples gives you an idea why predictions of what’s to come in 2100 or 2200 are likely to be wrong.  I would also add that most Muslims don’t follow Sharia Law. 
 
Will you point me to the link which shows that by the year 2200 America will be mostly Muslim?  If you said Hispanic, I’d believe it. 
Eileen de Bruin Added Feb 25, 2017 - 5:46am
Ryan, as Joe has already written, Islam goes back to the time of Judaism. It is about nations forming from the same seed as it were. Whatever Mohammed brought to Islam, he was persecuted in his lifetime and had to flee.
 
In the history of the world and  in the bible's old testament, we can read about wars, slavery, adultery,  every abomination known to man and it is about world history and the state of being of man. To call Islam a war machine in itself is part of what is wrong with our perspectives. Many beautiful and peaceful people of Islam heritage, atheist or agnostic or whatever just like we "Christians" are just living their lives without plotting to kill or terrorise.
 
Whatever happens in the future, we are part of its forming with our own perspectives and the way we live our lives as individuals.
 
Joe Chiang Added Feb 26, 2017 - 11:31am
@Thomas.  What I wrote was not a prediction, it was math.  To simplify the math concept, if you have group A decreasing at .5 a year, and group B increasing at 1 per year, at some predictable point in the future, group B will be larger than group A.  The growth pattern point to 2100 being close to that crossing point.
Shane Dean Added Feb 27, 2017 - 3:03pm
Eileen, you do realize that Judaism was around a several hundred years at least before Islam showed up?  And after Christianity started for that matter.
 
Joe Chiang Added Feb 27, 2017 - 3:49pm
Shane, you are correct.  Mohammad has Christ mentioned as a Prophet in the Koran.
Eileen de Bruin Added Feb 28, 2017 - 5:43am
Shane, the fact that the Abrahamic religions stem from Abraham, suggests that their roots and origins are the same. I think that the distinction between what Mohammed brought to Islam - consolidated later as a distinct religion - indeed after Christ - is confusing the issues.
 
"Ishmael (Arabic: إسماعيل‎‎, Ismā'īl) is the figure known in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam as Abraham's (Ibrahim) son, born to Hagar (Hajar). In Islam, Ishmael is regarded as a prophet (nabi) and an ancestor to Muhammad." 
 
"As all scholars of Islam, Judaism and Christianity agree, Ishmael was born before Isaac."
 
The root goes all the way back to Abraham.  To be a Muslim, it is required to accept Christianity and Judaism as true religions and it is accepted, in all three faiths, that the God is one and the same.
 
The story of the Jews and the  Arabs is intertwined. The roots of the Abrahamic religions are the same. It is not as simple as saying that Judaism was around several hundred years before Islam showed up. 
History, in fact, doesn't have distinctive lines, it has indicators and very fuzzy edges. Around 1800 years before Christ Judaism began. It took a long time, it is a story of evolving and learning. The Ten commandments came about 1250 BC and the Torah. It is all a gradually and evolving process.  It is a story of accepting only one God - as in  monotheistic, as opposed to multiple Gods.
 
Mohammed was of the Arab nation and Tribes, going all the way back to Abraham. He brought a distinct change to the existing tribal laws, as did Christ bring to Judaism some five hundred years' earlier.
 
There is much written on all of this - it is important to understand, in my view, the key and root connections.  it is wonderful, really, to consider the richness of history. Rather than see the differences, it might help us all if we consider the commonalities and, importantly, evolution and world history in its development.
Joe Chiang Added Feb 28, 2017 - 9:59am
@Eileen.  Excellent.  Many Christians argue that Allah and God are not the same, they are as much as Christ, The Holy Spirit, and God are the same.  You have done a wonderful job of outlining the basic historical record.
Eileen de Bruin Added Feb 28, 2017 - 4:56pm
@Joe, thankyou for your kind compliment, most appreciated.
It is perhaps a mistake for us all to see things with clear dividing lines instead of how life really is with its lack of clarity.
Having said that, it is also surprising that we do not seem to seek common ground across the religions and peoples as a way of moving forwards.
 
@Ryan, what you said about my Grandparents Methodism, well my Gran was embittered with some punishment dealt. I think that my Dad was atheistc for a long while as a result of all this! But, your American values of  the Founding Fathers, say, are a part of the whole, shaping and forming, gradually. It is also,about how the land, geography and survival, as well as whoever the indigenous peoples are, shape its new immigrants. I am sure that remaining in a certain period of time with the same values is not a natural progression towards growth. It will stunt, not enrich, growth. But I understand a grasping for a past that appears to give some solidity, some guarantee of survival, out of fear of the moving times.
What is it that Christ said: ". the only thing to fear is fear itself" ?
 
Eileen de Bruin Added Mar 2, 2017 - 12:59pm
@ Joe, in relation to what you wrote then:
By 2100, the Muslim population will be, statistically, greater than all other resident populations combined. As a result, by majority rule, they will vote to implement Sharia Law throughout the UK.
Canada will follow soon after as they have opened their borders to the Muslims and their birthrate is also not sustainable. The USA will follow by 2200. However, the US culture will be lost by 2100 as will Europe.  End of quote excerpt...
 
If it is meant to be, then so will it be.  The world has been turning and moving as has immigration and trade and wars and on and on and, perhaps, it is to witness now, rather than judge.  
The Sharia Law thing - perhaps there are enough Arab peoples who see the folly of old, tribal laws which were fit for another time. 
 
I am reading Norman Davies' book "Vanished Kingdoms - The history of half forgotten Europe" and it is clear that things change.  Kingdoms disappear out of the history books in which they might never have "deserved" to be written about in the first place! Transience is the only stable factor. We cannot "fight" the inevitable for some idea of what believe is the right way to live, whether we like it or not. He writes that the demise of the UK began in 1922.....
 
Perhaps that is what Christ meant when he said that His Kingdom was not of this world.  In that it is everlasting and all kingdoms on earth are temporary.
 
Good thread - it has made me think a lot.
 
 
 
Joe Chiang Added Mar 2, 2017 - 1:47pm
Good thoughts Eileen.  My goal as a teacher is to get people to think.  I too hope the Muslim majority will realize the folly of Sharia law for the general public.  But hope is not something that WILL happen, but just something that may happen and WE want that to happen.  You must remember that the terrorists are going to the general Muslim community and telling them if they do not agree with implementing their idea of Sharia Law will mean they are bad Muslims and as bad Muslims, they will be put to death.  The pro-Sharia Law Muslims will wind up, through threats and/or murder of those who do not agree, in the minority.  Eventually, only Muslims or even non-Muslims will agree to Sharia Law.
Even Atheists will agree to implement Sharia Law if the choice is implementation or being burned alive.  That, I believe is a reality as currently done in ISIS-held Middle East.  I believe this is awful but will become a reality in my lifetime.  I just hope Christ comes first. 
What has to happen before Christ returns?  One rule government with the Anti-Christ at its head (Centralization of government is being done to prepare the way for the anti-Christ).  One world religion that is anti-Christian and anti-Jewish (the Muslim religion fits this and their promised world leader could fit the description of the anti-Christ).  One world currency which means the end to US currency as dominating, this is in the process now as well.
The end is near, I believe.
Eileen de Bruin Added Mar 3, 2017 - 3:34am
Hello Joe. Hope springs eternal.
The reason that rebellion, rebelliousness and unbridled anger has come at "us" is because of the unfair trade and arms and control of the ME and Afrika. Boko Harem means "not Western education". The cultivation of the extremes from Islam has been of our own doing. Nation has not spoken peace unto nation. Maybe that is the way it must be. On the World Clock of history, man has been around a couple of minutes and we have brought the wild life to near extinction, flattened the forests and wrecked the sea life and the entire eco system. The world will never end and it will always repair itself long after man has gone. We fear what we call the end of the world, but it will not end! Only we, as a species may end because the eco,system will not support our life anymore. Einstein said, after the invention of the atom bomb, that there would be a fourth world war, with bows and arrows. 
So, I am not going to worry about Sharia Law sweeping in. We live for about seventy years and then we are gone. However much damage we, as individuals have done, however much power or goods we hold, we are going. This is the great leveller.
Earlier in this thread, Ryan Messano,wrote words to,the effect that our departure from our old Christianity values was our demise as it made our countries great.  
Wars and mercenaries for wars have come from every " religious" people, 
 
Whatever the "rights" and "wrongs" are, we are where we are.
A saying:
Everything is neither good nor bad, only thinking makes it so.
 
Shall we all seek wisdom and view events with kindness, with pity, with sadness but not with anger and hatred? Action and reaction is a constant guaranteed fuelling for the arms industries. Did these come out of our Founding Fathers' values I wonder?
 
jon vonn Added Mar 6, 2017 - 6:45pm
  We have a chance.  There are powerful idealistic elites who live in a different world. Their power is money.  Islamic countries do differ in sharia.  Hardliners will use violence to achieve their ends.  Yet, the modern Western generations have been raised on the indoctrination of Multiculturalism and Political Correctness. 
      Humans have fewer children as they achieve affluence.  The "soft invasion" is not yet instilled in the European people.  The European "hate" laws are far more all encompassing than those of the US due to our constitution.