Thank Heavens for Good sense in The Netherlands

I am so pleased that the recent elections, in The Netherlands, have put to rest the consideration, contemplation and possibility that a right wing party headed by a person whose only remit is to eliminate Islam from the country, have made clear that extremism, nationalism and xenophobia is not on the agenda.

 

It was interesting to note the BBC reporters and other Anglo reporters who had scurried over to Holland to await the outcomes; as in, if it went right wing, then a Nexit (referendum in The Netherlands to leave the European Community) as they had in the UK, would make the European community weaker and the disassembling and deteriorating UK, stronger. Well, they scurried off with their tails between their legs because they had not reckoned on a more modern and more developed society, overall. France in its imminent elections will now take note, as will the rest of Europe.

 

I need not go into intricate details and bore you - it is about a more balanced and sophisticated overall political view which is clearly moving beyond what the UK can offer these days on a world political stage. Insularity and xenophobia becoming more rampant on the streets of the UK has been the direct result of a thirty year spell of right wing politicians and a highly limited media and political elite, whilst the polarisation between rich and poor grew alarmingly.  The social infrastructure was starved. Then the elite blamed the immigrants for all ills.

 

I was genuinely concerned about what might happen in The Netherlands if they paid too much attention to the UK political world. But The Netherlands has a much more inclusive and social infrastructure - education and awareness is far more developed for the whole nation.  And so it is proven.  Roughly 80% of eligible voters participated.

 

Phew!!!

 

Comments

Mike Haluska Added Mar 16, 2017 - 4:49pm
Here's some basic math for you Europeans in love with Muslim immigration:
 
The average birth rate of Europeans is less than 2 per family.  It takes an average birth rate of at least 2.3 to keep the population stable.  This means that the European population is decreasing.
 
The average birth rate of European Muslims is over 4 per family.  That means that the Muslim population is growing. 
 
Taking into account the current populations of Europeans and Muslims in Europe, it will take about 25 years for the Europeans to become a minority in their own countries to a Muslim majority.
 
Crazy things can happen when the demographics shift like that.  The current Mayor of London is a Muslim - who woulda thunk???
Mike Haluska Added Mar 16, 2017 - 4:52pm
Eileen - when the NAZI's invaded, they were primarily hunting Jews and those who hid them.  When Sharia Law gets implemented in Holland, it won't just be Jews that get hunted.
Mike Haluska Added Mar 16, 2017 - 4:59pm
"But The Netherlands has a much more inclusive and social infrastructure - education and awareness is far more developed for the whole nation."
 
Let's see how that plays when people who treat women as 2nd class citizens and anyone who isn't a Muslim is an infidel are in charge.  Of course you're telling yourself this could never happen.  I mean after all - it's not like these guys overran much of Europe once before!
 
Europeans just never seem to learn from history.  Maybe the Maginot Line will protect you?
 
Eileen de Bruin Added Mar 17, 2017 - 4:39am
Mike, I acknowledge both your math and your fears.
It is understandable that you think this way, it really is. For me, I see things differently. I know whatever fears people hold, it blinds them to what is actually happening out there on the street and tensions build up.
I am also aware that those fears have played into certain political hands in the UK and Imhave seen and felt the results. I have seen and felt it in France, too.
 
Even with your facts that those muslims have more kids than we do and their kind dominating our kind ( whatever we are!) it reqlly does not bother me because I do not see these people as my enemy. I am also aware that the culture and the freedoms in Europe are liked by many immigrants and by their children who are born here and whomare educated here.
 
I was in Brooklyn about a year ago and I loved walking down a street there to get breakfast. There were asians, Polish, Russian, Arab, Spanish...allsorts.  In Coney Island, there are so many Russian shops.... We have been to America many times and done driving trips around different states and the mix and mash of different peoples is part of our love of going there. Immigration of peoples of whatever persuasion made the US great.
It made the UK and Europe great too.
 
Coming back to Holland. I walked into town yesterday and saw a young Muslim/ Turkish youth sitting atop a wall, with his mate, drinking a can of coke. He looked down towards me a bit apprehensively as I was about to walk by..  Given theTurkish and Netherlands crisis of the last days and then the elections, I could figure out why. 
I looked straight at him and smiled the happiness I feel at the election outcome.
He beamed back with a huge smile.
 
Mark, whilst I understand your calculations and your fears of being...overrun, taken over...what? Oh what is the real fea which justifies targeting and killing or just keeping away everyone?
 
I wonder now if we all might imagine, just for a moment, the fears of any and all types of peoples over the ages, the most recent being Jewish peoples and others on this very continent on which I live.
 
Dino Manalis Added Mar 17, 2017 - 8:40am
The Dutch are mainstream, they're not extremists!
Thomas Sutrina Added Mar 17, 2017 - 9:36am
The Muslim invasion was a realization that progressivisim/socialism had created a top heavy class society so they had to fill in the poverty class. Islam's iron fist enforcement and strict rules destroyed their society. They eliminated growth from experimentation so seemed pliable to the progressives and socialist. But as we now see the Muslim culture is rigid with strict rules and iron fisted punishments and with a rule that earth is its realm. It is a society that inherently self enforcing applies its static rules by force.
The people of Britain and Netherlands are not interested in achieving the goals of the upper classes, the classes of government.  And they see and reject Islamic culture that has been thrust upon them by government. We shall see if they see that government does not promote the people but has placed them in classes below theirs.  Recall the societies created in books by Plato, More, and Hobbes.
Mike Haluska Added Mar 17, 2017 - 9:41am
Eileen - the only problem with your reasoning is the cost of being wrong.  We could get rid of all airport security and trust people to be non-violent and 99.999% of the time our trust is rewarded with a safe flight.  We put extensive security in place because the price of being wrong is too high!!!
 
Let's suppose Europe's demographics shift to a Muslim majority and the government has a significant number of Muslims in Parliament/Congress.  It only takes ONE nutcase to gain power and cause a lot of misery and suffering. 
Eileen de Bruin Added Mar 17, 2017 - 10:39am
Dino, yes. Balanced, perhaps; preferring to consider that most people, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Atheist, has no desire to harm or destroy.
 
Thomas. I am not sure that we are dealing with a Muslim invasion; it is more a case of economic migrancy being the fundamental truth of man on earth since time immemorial. The people of Britain are not as well informed or as broadly educated (that is, not only at school) as are the Dutch people. The social structure in Britain has been broken down and this was the means through which redistribution or distribution of wealth serves and enriches the many, to the good of the whole society. Not just cash in fists, thus, as is the way in Britain and certainly the US. Appalled and amazed have I been with seeing the way my own family and friends have - sometimes - gone with the populist view that "it" is the fault of immigrants. It isn't. In the UK, it is the fault of government to provide a twenty-first century social structure, abstract and physical, for a modern and post-modern society. The distinct differences between the UK and The Netherlands lie herein - and I have witnessed and lived this, remember, for the past thirty-eight years.  That either the Dutch or the UK citizens reject the Islamic culture as such, is something that I cannot comment upon because I am not sure that it is as simple as that. I know, personally, three "muslim" culture ladies - all professional working women here. One is definitely an atheist, she told me, whilst being culturally and historically highly qualified and she curates a museum on Persian culture amongst others - outstanding work it is. The other lady is a professional Chemist working in the industry here; she is a Turkish lady and I still haven't remembered to ask her what her religion or faith is! I keep meaning to but the conversations have never led there. Perhaps it will come up this weekend having had the Turkish debacle and the election in Holland. . . .the point being it isn't the main issue at all!
 
Mike, I will return to my response later because something has just come up here, sorry.  Thanks for your responses, all of you. Back soon.
 
 
Jeffry Gilbert Added Mar 17, 2017 - 11:16am
Geert Wilders came in second and it goes to another round of voting. Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.
Thomas Sutrina Added Mar 17, 2017 - 12:56pm
Eileen, here are the numbers.  Native population in Cyprus 25.3%, Bulgaria 13.7%, and Russia 10%, inserted population in France 7.5%, Netherlands 6.0%, Belgium 5.9%, Germany 5.8%, Austria 5.4%, Greece 5.3%, United Kingdom 4.8%, Sweden 4.6%, Denmark 4.1%, Italy 3.7%, etc. with by actual numbers Germany, France, UK, Italy Bulgaria, and Netherlands between the range of 4.76 M to 1 M Ref Pew Research pub. 07/2016. Muslims represented 2% of the population of Europe in 1950 and 6% in 2020 Ref: http://www.ijesd.org/papers/29-D438.pdf.
Now I consider this an invasion or rather an open border invitation. The education level of the Dutch to the British or America I hope not a subject of this discussion.  The invasion occurred because of the actions of GOVERNMENT.  I do not recall the population having an option presented on a ballot.  Do you.  So the education of the population is not the issue. The issue is the the decision that even the dumb person in the country for some reason can make.  Do I accept welfare or accept a job at some level of wage.  They higher level of welfare will result in a higher minimum wage that natives will accept.  And why is welfare driving the countries bankrupt? Because welfare purchase VOTES.  So do not put the blame on people but on government wanting to serve the interest of special interest instead of the population of the country.
Economic migration is the creation of government Eileen.  The citizens reject rape and other crimes of the Muslims. They reject not being able to go out at night because they dress per the European Culture. They do not like Muslim religion defining non-Muslims as LESSER HUMANS. Eileen that is what the Nazis did to Jews before it was acceptable to kill them in a genocide. Citizens do not want to face genocide, that includes the dumb ones.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Mar 17, 2017 - 3:16pm
Mike
 
I agree on your POV although my wife is Muslim. I don't care about what color or race people are, but when their life and personality needs daily portions of archaic religions to be mastered, no thanks.
 
We don't need to back in time by let our societies be thrown back to middle ages !
 
 
Mike Haluska Added Mar 17, 2017 - 3:59pm
Stone - I personally know several Muslims (they're good engineers) from Iran (we went to Purdue University) and they love living in America.  It's the nutty fanatics that want to impose Sharia Law on the rest of the world that concern me. 
 
Remember when the Irish Republican Army (IRA) was terrorizing the UK?  These people were Irish Catholics - and the Pope strongly condemned their violence as unacceptable to God and peaceful people.  If I saw a similar reaction on a regular basis from Muslim Clerics and "Ayatollahs" I would have much more sympathy and compassion for Muslims as a whole.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Mar 17, 2017 - 4:46pm
Mike
 
What people don't understand is that poverty and unemployment drive people to those fanatics. And they're getting more here in Europe.
 
One may think it's an agenda when seen the "refugee policy"....
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Mar 17, 2017 - 4:52pm
BTW:
 
Islam is daily life for a Muslim. Christianity is NOT. The system of a 5-times-s-day prayer makes sure that almost EVERY decision is influenced by religion.
 
And our secular systems can NOT allow a fallback into middle ages, as Turkey is actually trying to do. But when the immigration of Muslims into Europe (for the most part they are NOT educated Muslims from Istanbul and the Western part but from Anatolia) in 30 years we native Europeans will be a minority.
 
And this has nothing to do with racism, but the PC agenda.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Mar 17, 2017 - 4:56pm
BTW2:
 
In the early middle ages, Islam was majority in Spain until the French stopped them. Now they use the refugee/immigration weapon to get to the same goal.
 
The Quran recommends that ever since, as the Bible did too. Be fruitful and reproduce so in time we will be the majority.
 
Simple.
Thomas Sutrina Added Mar 17, 2017 - 5:37pm
The immigrant Muslims are from cultures where the population is ~90% Muslim with a few pockets that are exceptions.  Governments are based on Islam and conformity is expected and failure to conform is punished because Islam has a judgmental theology.  Thus the Quran defines non-Muslims as lesser citizens and even lesser humans.  That has allowed ISIS and through out the centuries for genocide and other acts to occur without the worry of retribution.   Slavery and blacks in the USA up until recently were lesser humans.  They were denied the voting rights and received less justice in courts and the KKK was an enforcement arm of government, unofficially.  This in direct conflict with the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendment that were ignored.  That change is the mid 1960's and now discrimination is at par with all others.  For man naturally tries to find differences to use to raise those similar to themselves up. 
 
The immigrants did not choose to leave there culture by choice as the waves of immigrants that crossed the seas to get to the USA.  The took the risk of starting over and to start over knew that success could only occur by being totally committed in all aspects.  The Muslims that have come to the USA and Europe by choice are totally different then this wave. 
 
The results is apparent in their actions.  Some before came to proselytizer, and they did achieve success but only slightly.  Now they have received a gift from GOD so to speak.  The influx make everything easier since that now can use group methods.  So even those born in Europe or America have been drawn to the flame of religious excitement to follow the words of the profit and not the words of the tired old Muslims. 
Doug Plumb Added Mar 18, 2017 - 4:23am
Enter your comment here...
Doug Plumb Added Mar 18, 2017 - 4:26am
Do you want this ?
Eileen de Bruin Added Mar 18, 2017 - 4:43am
Stone Eater, thanks for your comments. Indeed, your wife is a muslim and all is well there and you are merely referring to the notion of an Islamic republic or sweeping take over.  
 
Thomas - welfare does not make countries bankrupt. This is a myth. Good welfare - spent on the social infrastructure - benefits all and, again I stress I am not talking about cash in hands as in had outs.
 
Broadly, about Islamic takeovers - please remember that trade and industry and "aid" is about manipulating other countries. Look at Nigeria - ask Stone - this country has so much wealth in natural resources and its people are dirt poor and ignorant.  Shell makes a fortune for the "west" and pays the corrupt government and so on it goes.  Boko Haram began from this - create the poverty and the totally unfair system which deprives its people of their own wealth and you create extremis. Boko Haram means "not western" education. this is why the Islam extremism is being fed, because the dirt poor people have nothing else to lose have they?  Please do look at the trade and industry of  "our" countries - we create the messes or contribute to them and create refugees and on and on.
 
The education level here in Holland is much higher than in the UK, broadly speaking and it has happened over the past thirty years. I have lived it and witnessed it in all of the time I have lived and worked throughout Europe going home to the UK regularly when I was not there.  The media and the government are totally right wing now and corrupt to the core. They have peddled the lie that everything is the immigrants' fault and it is believed as a norm now.
 
More people die in the US through lack of basic health care than they do through terrorist attacks. Consider why the US is incapable of dealing with a universal health care plan and when you look into it you will find that the lobbyists make it the status quo that the inequalities of access to good social welfare, keeps the masses down and ignorant. The same pattern is now being followed in the UK - they are mirroring the US more and more and have now left the European ideals. They left them in 1997 when Tony Blair became leader after he had promised a much closer alliance with Europe. He did what George Bush wanted and got us all into the totally destructive wars in the middle East.  Good lord, he is a war criminal, all but said in the Chilcott report and the man is walking free, parading himself as a peace politician and Middle Eastern expert! His government was worse than the previous conservative one because it pretended to be a socialist government.
 
I agree that the "threat' of islamic culture is a dark shadow and I understand the fear of something as  archaic as its apparent rules and sharia law etc. But I am equally sure that the manner of resist and hate and fight is not going to get us anywhere towards a more enlightened approach to peace in this world. Consider the number of refugees stuck in camps around the world and consider if these are not breeding grounds for radical Islam. What would any of us do being herded like cattle and treated worse inside camps not fit for any human being?  Perhaps we should put this at the centre of our political agendas and start thinking out of the box a bit more.
 
Thanks for all contributors. I am helping someone move house so will be back tomorrow!  Have a good weekend.
 
Leroy Added Mar 18, 2017 - 9:07am
It has been said that 5% percent of the people make life hell for everyone else.  All it takes is a few to turn our culture upside down.  European culture is being overrun.
 
What's wrong with that?  Yes, the US is a melting pot of different cultures coming together.  The operative word is "melting".  It merged into one.  At one point (I have heard more than once but don't have the fact to back it up), the liberal government decided that the immigrants let in were too similar to the population and it needed to encourage more diversity by bringing in a more dissimilar people.  That is simply wrong.  I'm all for bringing in immigrants who accept Western culture and have values similar to our own and who do not wish to change it.
 
Today, the US has no idea what it is letting in.  I'm sure Nancy Pelosi would say, "You have to let them pass the border to know who and what they are". The US has let in people with terrorist ties.  That's a fact.  The US lets in people on religious visas.  About a third are fake.  Most of European is blind about what is happening to it.
 
We like to think of European as being homogeneous, but it is not true.  It is the result of clashing cultures including Vikings, Greeks, Moors, Persians, Asiatic tribes, germanic tribes.  The result is what we see today.  Yeah.  We could mix it up again and see what results.  Western culture has served us well.  To the extent we have reverted away from it, we have declined.  To the extent we have embraced it, we have progressed.  Islam wants to replace it. 
 
Doug Plumb Added Mar 18, 2017 - 9:59am
re: "Please do look at the trade and industry of  "our" countries - we create the messes or contribute to them and create refugees and on and on."
 
  That is our banks that do that. Our communist/Bolshevik privately owned banks foment revolution so our banks can print their money. This is why we have wars, to overthrow the governments to put our financial system in place.
  Both the left wing and the right wing are wings of the same bird, the international banks. Our industry lifts people out of poverty, gives them electricity, food, shelter, etc.
  You are absolutely wrong in one of the main tenants of your belief system.
  This is how they trick the left, they create a set of premise to base a philosophy on and everyone accepts these as facts, when that happens the philosophy can be made to appear logical.
Doug Plumb Added Mar 18, 2017 - 10:05am
These immigrants are not here to accept Western culture, they are here to bring the very culture that made their homeland a shit-hole, and they want to make the West a shit hole, because that is what the Islamic Clerics want.
  They are being brought here to do this by Jews, because Jews also want to destroy the USA through Bolshevism (egalitarianism, multiculturalism, and collectivization). Bolsheviks murder Christians. Bolshevism cannot stand under Christianity because Christianity is based on reason, not authority. The people who run the wolrd now want to become Gods and Islamic or Talmudic law is the way to bring that about.
  This revolution is all about law, therefore it is all about religion. A commie based educational system that dumbs people down into accepting a version of Christianity meant for six year olds as what represents Christianity at its core creates adults that become atheists and therefore assume that religion doesn't play a role in society today.
  These adults are unable to put the clash of civilization into a proper context from which it can be reasonably evaluated. Instead they are mislead by phoney precepts.
Thomas Sutrina Added Mar 18, 2017 - 12:21pm
Eileen, welfare by itself does not cause a country to go bankrupt. The national debt is the culprit because the lenders require interest and will not lend at a low interest to high risk countries, those with a high national debt relative to GDP.  Welfare is one of the largest expenses of a welfare government.  Thus it contributes significantly to the debt.  Bankrupt is when the lenders can not be serviced or by choice will not be serviced.  Argentina when bankrupt.  Other countries are close to going bankrupt.  The economy of countries with higher then average national debt is sluggish.  Japan and Greece are to examples.  The result is a downward spiral to bankruptcy that is difficult to deal with and prevent.
 
You choose Nigeria as an example of the effect of manipulation. You are accusing Europe, but that is not always the case. Cuba and Venezuela are countries that have significant economic problems as the result of the government.  One need to take a critical look at the decision of the government before pointing fingers.
 
America is not incapable of dealing with universal health care.  The problem is that universal health care goes against the principles of the Declaration of Independence and the government defined in the Constitution.  We have two forces in the USA.  One that says follow the principles of the founders and the other that says those documents are just suggestion.  Significantly starting with FDR ~1938 that created a second Bill of Rights presented in his state of the union speech January 11, 1944 Ref: 1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EZ5bx9AyI4 2) http://origin.heritage.org/initiatives/first-principles/primary-sources/fdrs-second-bill-of-rights       He is also the starter of the welfare state that we have today with two major programs. Universal health care actually started in WWII and the requirement put on hospitals of not turning away those that can not pay.  Then FDR's party in 1960's added Medicare and Medicaid with price regulations.  Eileen, all the pieces of national health care in the second bill of rights exist except for the single payer which many suspect was the goal of Obama Care.
 
Peace occurs when plant earth is God's realm.  That is the GOD of Islam, clearly stated.  It is just as clearly state as the Jewish promise land in there Judgmental theology period that ended about 500 BC.  The history of the relationship of Islam to the world shows they mean to achieve this goal.   Eileen now this shows an inability to understand history of man, "But I am equally sure that the manner of resist and hate and fight is not going to get us anywhere towards a more enlightened approach to peace in this world. "
Doug Plumb Added Mar 18, 2017 - 1:42pm
It is a lack of worldly experience that creates a Leftist. They believe that all others think the way they do and that evil only happens in stories and in novels.
Mike Haluska Added Mar 18, 2017 - 10:04pm
It seems like Muslim nations (unlike non-Muslim nations) make no distinction between RELIGION and GOVERNMENT.  To them, government is secondary to religion.  They may have an elected "Prime Minister/President", but the Iyatollah has more influence behind the scenes.
Eileen de Bruin Added Mar 19, 2017 - 11:12am
Thank you so much for your comments.
Thomas Sutrina:  interesting about the healthcare.  But that was a long time ago and attitudes have changed. My pal, originally from Texas, went to Phoenix a few weeks' ago for a reunion and she told me that the entire focus is on health care and cost and that she simply would not be able to afford to live in the US now. I am aware of the healthcare issues in the US from general news and documentaries and, not least, this Obama care stuff which, effectively, seemed to be the seed of his downfall whilst in government.  Are you saying that there are no real issues then?
 
Leroy - no Europe is not homogeneous - we are a very mixed up bunch are we not?! On my Mother's side, via Ireland, this name is so singularly unusual that it is the only one in the whole of Ireland.  Going further back - not professionally - just trying to pin point where such an unusual name came from (it is totally accepted as Irish now) it appears on relatively superficial searching, ok, but still - that it could have come from India.......how long ago?  Goodness, possibly earlier than the 19th century....
 
Doug - only the banks?  Public policy and government is the driver, of course.  "Aid" programmes are usually controlling programmes and we dress it up with this euphemism methinks.  It is about trade and power and control.  That is the nature of the world and of man, non? Yes, Doug, I took a quick look at the link.
 
This fear that we all seem to have of Islam is something to be acknowledged, yes. Not to be ignored, no. But I am earnestly considering that the apparent opposition and intransigence generally towards "it" is making "it" stronger and more aggressive.  I do not like burkas or women having to be covered from head to foot. In Dubai, in a museum of clothing etc. it was quite clear that the garb was to be protected from the sun and the awful sandstorms.  It seems to have also been used to keep women down as the "temptress" that she is good Lord!  yes, there are things that I really find not nice at all and I am wary of this male dominated "religion".  Fifty years' ago, in the Catholic Church (in Holland anyway) women sat on one side and men sat on the other side.  The women wore head scarves. It doesn't happen now. 
 
Reactionary behaviour gives something more power than it would normally have on its own.  We feed the anger and intransigence. There are issues, yes; surely in the 21st Century we should be able to openly discuss everything?  Isn't this the greatest evil? That is, that we apparently are not able to do so. It requires mutual respect.
Doug Plumb Added Mar 19, 2017 - 6:18pm
The very notion that people can live peacefully together but with different laws is a fallacy in and of itself. This is how they get you leftists on your tangents: you ignore logic.
  Law is the basis of a society. A society is a group of people that agree to live under a given set of laws. Everything else about society is the smoke from this.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Mar 20, 2017 - 4:24am
Doug
 
It is a lack of worldly experience that creates a Leftist. They believe that all others think the way they do
 
Good one. I know such examples. And the ones they are concerned for them laugh about them....
Doug Plumb Added Mar 20, 2017 - 4:42am
Jordan Peterson does a good job of explaining this, although I had heard the idea earlier. Its an immaturity, children expect that the world is run by rules when they learn about rules. Lefties have rules that are very self centric and do not respect the construct of society. Society exists to suppress according to them (partly true but also very simplistic). There is a lot of very bad logic in lefty literature.
  Lefties do not understand that you must lose some freedom in exchange for societies comfort. Nothing comes for free.
Eileen de Bruin Added Mar 20, 2017 - 8:00am
Doug - regarding the same commentary that Stone picked up.
Am I a leftie then?  Perhaps. Perhaps I am immature. Or just an idealist. Of course I am aware of facts and that we are our own worst enemies and that, always, rules are made because of this!
 
But I do understand that some freedom has to be lost in exchange for societies' comfort, most certainly and nothing does come for free. I have witnessed that when something is given for nothing, it is devalued.  In the NHS, in the good days, it was ripped off mercilessly by people taking advantage of having free prescriptions - to the degree that medical appliances or bandages etc. were being taken and sold on. This was happening right up to 2011 - I was in the UK helping my Mum who had gone into demise in her aged state and I witnessed so much and people, including nurses and NHS contractors who provided equipment told me lots about this.
 
Yes, we are our own worst enemies. But, frankly, when I say that we need to address our approaches to how we handle politics and the Islamic "issues", it is only because we do not seem to move any further forward with the reactionary and hate-stoking blaming game. That, it seems to me, is a practical approach is it not?
 
Doug Plumb Added Mar 20, 2017 - 8:48am
There is no way of working around a logical fallacy, not even with idealism and the desire to live in a perfect world.
  The fact is that the West has largely been ruined due to another religious group, the Jews, who believe they have a god given right to rule over everyone and believe they have the right to instigate world revolution by any means possible. These are their words, not mine and there are a thousand Jewish writings that prove this. Talmudic quotes easily show it, also a speech by ex Establishment member Benjamin Freedman explains it (search Google) or HenryMakow.com. The New Testament explains it. Its obvious everywhere you look, in fact its like talking about water with a fish. But the mind warped education system and its ridiculous take (violations of the rules of arithmetic in the case of last centuries defining event, the holocaust) on history blinds people and warps their reason.
  I know that a lot of people replace feeling with fact because they simply do not like the facts, but communism is exclusively Jewish and its world wide implementation is a Jewish conspiracy. We have seen it all before in the Bolshevik revolution, which is uncontestedly a Jewish coup de etat on Russia where between 20 and 60 million Christians were killed. Jews absolutely hate Christians and Judaism requires all Christians to be decapitated. (This is their law, Talmudic law).
  They want absolute rule over all of humanity and the rest of us are merely insects. This is Judaism and it is quite independent of how you may feel about it. It can be proven a thousand times over, each time using different evidence. You have seen the evidence, I have, most cannot look.
  They control banking, publishing, education and culture as well as our politicans and courts. In Canada, 80 % of practitioners in law were Jewish. Our courts one said "fact is no defense in a Canadian court" when persecuting Ernst Zundel regarding his holocaust denial. English jurisprudence has the basic requirement of fact and right. Talmudic law has no requirements for no  Jews to be tried and convicted. Under Talmudic law there are no juries, and no rights.
  There are not enough Jews to destroy the courts completely, overtly, they can only do it covertly, consequently they import muslims for a gradual change to Sharia law, which is also totalitarian in nature.
  As one of the English Scholars of last century put it, the public will be no more capable of questioning authority than sheep are capable of questioning the practice of eating mutton. Its why many people are simply incapable of evaluating the possibility of a grand conspiracy. Politics has been full of conspiracy since it started. Conspiracies actually exist in reality.
  Left wing thinking that everyone is the same and evil doesn't exist makes the possibility of a international Jewish conspiracy ridiculous, even impossible. Communism is in fact Judaism is socialism, and has been the driving force behind all the wars and collapsing the economy as well as create the non Jewish degenerates (nihilists) that run the system.
  See my essay on why Christians are being persecuted (it has to do with key aspects of Christian doctrine). Also see my essay "A Psychiatrist Convention" on Writer Beat.
  I've been working very hard at learning the roots of all of this after seeing our Canadian Legal profession in action back in 2001. I spent years reading philosophy and law to figure out how people can be such degenerates.
  I've been putting more time into this than almost anyone. I had a software business that ran itself for 9 years and I just studied this and got street political experience.
 
 
Doug Plumb Added Mar 20, 2017 - 9:05am
Its not ordinary Jews, but many will whisper under their breath that they know the holocaust was faked but are themselves tyrannized into Judaism. This system is no good for them either, it only serves the power elite and Talmudic / Sharia law is the best vehicle for gaining overt rather than covert absolute authority.
  I explain more about this in my movie on YouTube "Law, The Light Of Reason And Conscience". its complex 2 hrs and 40 min long but has a playlist as well with 10 different sections, explaining things like law and finance as well as key aspects of various ideologies.
 
Billy Roper Added Mar 20, 2017 - 9:13am
Wilders, even though he is a coopted shill for the Jews, did better than people would have us believe in the election. His party went from being the third largest, to being the second largest. They also actually gained 5 seats in the Parliament. So, Allen declaring victory over the election results would be like him saying that the Weimar Republic elections of 1929, 1930, 1931, and 1932 were resounding defeats of the NSDAP. Nationalism, even ersatz Nationalism, is the wave of the future, until LARPing becomes reality and the real deal comes into play. Something similar will happen with Le Pen in France, I predict.
Doug Plumb Added Mar 20, 2017 - 10:14am
Billy and I agree on my basic analysis of the problem. Billy looks at it all from a completely different point of view - and there is Tom too who also looks at everything from a history point of view. I look at it with philosophy and law.
  When we post wrt this, we just get insults, not arguments. If you don't have an argument you insult or lock up your opponent, which is what happens with people like holocaust deniers. It prevents them from exposing facts.
  That holocaust has given them billions - maybe trillions of dollars to carry out their agenda along with the licentiousness to operate above suspicion.
Doug Plumb Added Mar 20, 2017 - 10:16am
BTW Billy, Tom, Paul Craig Roberts just did an interview with Richie Allen regarding what Trump is up against. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GZAB2wue5o
Eileen de Bruin Added Mar 20, 2017 - 3:52pm
Blimey Doug, there is a lot here!  Gimme a bit of time to digest, consider and analyse - surely the Jews are not "Christian haters"!!! Yes, I am checking it all out. . . ..  more anon.
Doug Plumb Added Mar 20, 2017 - 7:31pm
More than anything, this is what they are. Since the times of Christ.
 
I'm glad there are people who can look at this who haven't seen it. I suggest that you look at Texx Mars videos on YouTube for overall info. He is an ex aeronautical engineer from U Texas and the air force. Very smart guy, very simple explanations. There are a thousand sources. Look at my channel "Doug Plumb" on YouTube.
Doug Plumb Added Mar 20, 2017 - 8:00pm
Eileen, deprogramming isn't an easy thing to do. I hope you take it gradually and not all at once. Its going to get a lot harder as you go on and its a while before you find peace in truth.
Thomas Napers Added Mar 21, 2017 - 2:40am
While I agree that any politician that runs on a pure anti-immigrant stance deserves to lose, that was not the only position of the far right party nor was a pro-immigrant stance the only position of the winning party.  There are many issues and voters pick and choose politicians based on which issue is most important to them and which candidate holds the same positions on that issue. 
 
In the case of the Netherlands, knowing very little of the politicians and just basing my opinion on what I’ve read, I think the anti-immigrant rhetoric from the right was too severe and hope that’s what turned-off most voters.  The fact of the matter is that the Netherlands has a really bad Muslim immigrant assimilation problem and no matter who wins, it must be dealt with. 
 
As to your analysis of politics in the UK, there is no thirty year spell of right wing politicians dominating British politics.  If anything, I’d argue they’re mostly leftists, with the Brexit vote being an exit from the norm.  After all, the polarization of the rich and poor is the playbook of all Leftists politicians.
Eileen de Bruin Added Mar 21, 2017 - 4:29am
Doug, it is more of an epic review. Yes, I shall take a look.
Thomas, as to thirty plus years of right wing versus left wing. Perhaps those terms are now too simplistic. The so called New Labour party became not the Labour Party, but just like the Conservatives under Thatcher. She, herself said that Tony Blair was her greatest creation. So I mean that the rigged and fenced political elite blossomed and grew into a self-serving model. It did not serve society well and is responsible for the disparate understanding of what, exactly, parties stood for. The current political elite alongside its media colleagues has been installed to the detriment of wealth distribution and recognisable policies. The brexit was a reaction to all of this, a symptom of people in confusion, not a solidly considered perspective. Current in fighting in Labour is the attempt of a re emergence from the left wing, or its original socialist fundamentals.
 
Doug Plumb Added Mar 21, 2017 - 4:48am
You can look at "The Protocols Of Zion". Fictitious or not, it does explain what is being done to us and this is obvious just from everyday observation.
  The Right and Left wing are the wings of the same bird created by international banks.
Shane Laing Added Mar 21, 2017 - 10:00am
Well I think I should chip in here. For starters the UK does not want to ban immigrants. There never has been any statement from the Brexit camp saying that.  What they did say was that they wanted controlled immigration not uncontrolled. They want a visa system much like Australia whereby we accept those we want and need and not have anyone turn up without any prospects of employment and just living off the British taxpayer (this goes against EU laws with regard to free movement).  Is this such a crime? As regard to Muslims.  The vast majority live here peacefully, work hard and do the best they can and I am all for it. We do have Sharia Courts in the UK to deal with domestic issues that can be dealt with within the Islamic community. It must be said that British Law has primacy. It is the UK governments position that it is better to help refugees while they are in their own countries rather them flood into Europe. As many are Muslims would it not be better for them to claim refugee status in a Muslim country? There is also the question of refugee status. If you are a refugee you make your way to the nearest safe country and whichever way you look at it the UK is not the nearest safe country if coming from Somalia, Ethiopia etc.  There were refugee camps in Calais northern France where these refugees refused to accept the invitations from the French government to settle as they wanted to get to the UK where the benefits system is so much better. We also think that it is better for the British Government to decide what laws we should have not have them foisted upon us by and unelected body such as the EU commission. We also don't want to see huge amounts of money go into the EU coffers to disappear never to be accounted for.  There is also the fact that the EU moves once a month from the Hague to Strasbourg at a cost of £35 million for no other reason than the French want it. These are some of the reasons the UK decided to leave not because we are a bunch of racists.
Billy Roper Added Mar 21, 2017 - 10:08am
Thomas said "While I agree that any politician that runs on a pure anti-immigrant stance deserves to lose..."
 
So, do you oppose black nationalist and anti-colonial leaders in Africa, too? Or, do you only oppose Whites trying to limit third world invasions into our countries?
Doug Plumb Added Mar 21, 2017 - 11:41am
Doesn't it ever occur to anyone to ask: "We have been bombing these countries for the last 40 -50 years, helping the Israelis beat the shit out of the Palestinians for the sake of Jewish Supremacy and now they want to bring them here?" It just seems so silly not to ask these kinds of questions, but I'm not a liberal so I guess its just me. Maybe I am an anti-semitic racist bigot homophobic transphobic piece of shit for wondering.
  It seems to me that if someone wanted to build a garage they would get a book about carpentry, dig a well, get a book about digging wells, etc. But in politics and law everything is instinct- no reading required.
  Who is the force behind multiculturalism and why are they pushing it ? Is this a fair question ? Why don't they want Israel to have multiculturalism ? Is anti semitic to ask ?
  Is it possible that multicultiralism is being done to Christian countries ? Were Jews the most persecuted people in the last century or was it Christians? What was that Bolshevik Revolution, who was behind it ? How many Christians were systematically murdered in the last century ? Was the Bolshevik Revolution Jewish ? Why are we at war with all these Arab countries ? I guess in a feel-good world we don't need logic, we just need to feel good.
Doug Plumb Added Mar 21, 2017 - 11:49am
Why are the Jews Gods chosen people? Why were they chosen ? What did Christ mean when he said "judge a tree by its fruit?"
Eileen de Bruin Added Mar 21, 2017 - 12:23pm
Shane:"There were refugee camps in Calais northern France where these refugees refused to accept the invitations from the French government to settle as they wanted to get to the UK where the benefits system is so much better."
 
This is far too simplistic.  Benefits are better in France, by the way. But the twelve million pounds spent on reinforcing the fencing around the port, could have bought a couple of deserted chateaux over in Brittany and given everyone wonderful homes.  There is an argument for the whole of the EU sitting down and accepting responsibility for all refugees instead of this piecemeal approach. There is good, bad and ugly in everything and you cannot cherry pick the bits that you like and ignore those that you do not.  In France, as I witnessed personally having been based there for twelve years, acceptance of other people is just not in the overall psyche.  The immigrant peoples - with French passports - were and are sidelined and have never been absorbed into the general French communities.  Their prospects of going higher up the social scale are minimal. This attitude creates the very radicalism that we are now moaning about.
 
More anon.
Billy Roper Added Mar 21, 2017 - 4:00pm
Allen thinks that the reason for radical Islam is that Whites haven't promoted them upwards in society quickly enough. No wonder he wanted to be a woman, he wants everyone to take it laying down!
Doug Plumb Added Mar 21, 2017 - 4:15pm
lol
Doug Plumb Added Mar 21, 2017 - 4:21pm
Eileen is OK, she will come around. Anyone that has enough brains to look at the evidence comes around. It's the ones that are afraid to look at the evidence that will never see the truth.
Doug Plumb Added Mar 22, 2017 - 2:12am
Eileen, the best indicator of overall character of the Jewish establishment is the fact that white slavery was legal in Israel up until 2006.This means that if your daughter was tricked into going somewhere for a modelling job, she could end up working in a brothel in Israel in full view of everyone. It would be legal. It was made illegal in 2006. Prostitution worldwide includes children.
  Around 2006 movies came out and awareness of the sex slave trade ("white slavery") came out. The extent of secret society and child torture and murder was exposed by Ted Gundersen (ex FBI head) and those pictures of children missing stopped appearing on milk cartons.
  The Jewish establishment has goals of world domination and its ideals are a Jewish domination of the world where everyone exists to serve the Jew.
  This is not the ethic of most ordinary Jews. Some of them think it is good and right. The Jewish establishment is top down rule. Most people that expose the holocaust as a hoax have been Jewish. Most of the people that expose Judaism for what it is are Jewish.
  There is the Jewish leadership and Jews themselves, under this very central and totalitarian leadership.
  The first person to ever tell me the truth about the holocaust had a serial number on his arm. It was in a grocery store, I was about 11 or so, and saw the serial number on his arm. I was reading The Holocaust at the time and it had a profound effect on me. His whisper lasted only a few moments. Fortunately I was lucky, I met enough adults that told me the truth.
  I always believed the holocaust was fake, but I learned that it was in fact fake when I learned of the people that get persecuted for questioning it.
 
Shane Laing Added Mar 22, 2017 - 9:26am
Eileen, As for my comments being far too simplistic, well it doesn't need to be anymore complicated.   Those are statements from the refugees themselves.  As for not them not being absorbed into the general French communities whose fault is that? I would suggest not the UKs.  They of course don't need to stay in France they could go to anywhere in the EU.  So why are they trying to get to the UK legally or not? 
Eileen de Bruin Added Mar 22, 2017 - 4:47pm
Ok, I,am reading everything through, carefully. Thankyou for the posts, I need some absorption and assimilation time to respect your opinions and views. Time for reflection. Back soon.
Eileen de Bruin Added Mar 23, 2017 - 4:56pm
Doug: re. The Right and Left wing are the wings of the same bird created by international banks.
I like this one!
I am ploughing through the stuff. The holocaust. So many books, so many people including my own parents going through the war in the UK and my husband's parents going through the war in Holland. In fact his Mum was living in Amsterdam, witnessed the rounding up and disappearance of the Jewish community.
So many films, documentaries, books and local evidence and I have been twice to the Prinsengracht secret loft. If this were a hoax, my goodness it is one with many traces of reality! I worked on a kibbutz in the seventies and learned much about Israel, good, bad and ugly. I knew/met people who had been in the camps and had come to Israel for freedom, for a homeland, after much loss and grief. I do realise now of course that Israel is the back door for the US and others to fight the middle east wars from.
Shane, I do not think that the Brits are racist, per se, I think that government policy cultivates xenophobia especially now as it hides so much of their bad government. There are fears of Islam which I well understand.
These fears and the world war policy feed radicalism, although these terrorist attacks are by inadequate, criminal people who're not helping any Muslim immigrant, nor any good cause at all.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Mar 23, 2017 - 5:27pm
All these attacks in Europe lately. And all they say is "we have no proof yet". It's OBVIOUS !! Kick that scum out - now ! Who does NOT respect our values has no rights here !! We should rearrange our prisons the way they would find them in THEIR countries....
Doug Plumb Added Mar 23, 2017 - 9:04pm
re " witnessed the rounding up and disappearance of the Jewish community."
- to work camps. The Red Cross was allowed in (unlike Allied camps). Total casualties = 270,000 from disease mostly, bugs,typhus, etc.
  re " I knew/met people who had been in the camps and had come to Israel for freedom, for a homeland, after much loss and grief."
  I have seen many with that number on their arm in Canada. Evidence for my side of things - especially when Germany/Poland + only had a total of 4.5 million of them to start. Hitler kills 6 million + there are survivors collecting billions. This tried this in ww1 - there are newspaper records but no one bought it. Like the League of Nations, now the UN "Un". We needed TV to buy this crap. It had to be advertised on TV.
Doug Plumb Added Mar 23, 2017 - 9:06pm
re " nor any good cause at all.  " We are the infidels. They are to rid the world of infidels. That's why the Jews want them in here. The Jews want to be the only white people and they want Christianity gone.
Eileen de Bruin Added Mar 24, 2017 - 6:58am
Doug - whilst I am cognizant of the fact that your views and perspectives are well-researched - and I will look at them over the next month (travelling) - please also allow for the fact that I, too, do not react on the basis of going one way or the other according to how the wind blows. I have respect for anyone and their opinions. I am interested in looking at all you have cited.
 
Thomas and Shane and Stone:  vis a vis the refugee situation, the Jihadist apparent revelations and the latest attack in Westminster.  I really do have to ask you  to do a very serious reality check for me so would you do this on the following:
 
Khalid Masood had previous convictions for violence but not terrorism offenses, police said. He was born Adrian Russell Ajao and has a history of being a criminal.  He has "hung" his hat on Islamic terror and, apparently, his violent and rageful killing spree on Wednesday with his vehicle and his knife is being called a "terrorist attack".  In the Houses of Parliament tear-jerking speeches have been made about the "Mother of Democracies", "..making a cup of tea in the onslaught ..." (paraphrased) and standing firm in the "face" of terrorism.  A terrorist attack? What?
 
This was one, clearly deranged and utterly unstable, man. Perhaps, in the xenophobic-induced state of the UK given free reign during the Brexit campaign, it has served to give oxygen to his violence. Much like the white, Yorkshire, man, Thomas Mair, who killed the MP, driven by rage and right-wing or extremist views which fuel hate, in itself. A pair of raging loonies fuelled by the hate-media drive to blacken anything remotely, Islam is unleashed on the world.
 
Meanwhile, one Master Tony Blair, wager of wars, accused of being a war criminal - enabling perhaps millions of people to be killed or made into refugees - the Chilcot Report, remember that?
Chilcot himself said “We have concluded that the UK chose to join the invasion of Iraq before the peaceful options for disarmament had been exhausted. Military action at that time was not a last resort.” The origins of this Isis (mafia-like and illegal body) come from the time of the invasion into Iraq. So Blair contributed to this emerging axis of evil. A war criminal.
 
Yet he is walking free, being consulted regularly in terms of politics and embarking on a new career of some sort of think tank.
 
The British Prime Minister is not speaking about the damage done to world peace, to innocent people being bombed and the opprobrium that the nation might, or should, feel about this.
 
Could you please tell me that this is not a script from Ben Elton or what?
 
I really should be put back into my straight-jacket eh?
Thomas Sutrina Added Mar 24, 2017 - 8:36am
Eileen, I am always amazed about reading statements that are logical mish mash. Spaghetti like this one.
• Khalid Masood is a violent criminal
• changed his name to be a Muslim from Adrian Russell Ajao
• supports Islamic terror
• "clearly deranged and utterly unstable"
• "UK given free reign during the Brexit campaign" based on what? doing what, saying what, This is pure fabrication
• "give oxygen to his violence" Violent before Brexit, likely already changed name before Brexit, and supported Islamic terror before Brexit. Because if Brexit caused any of this that would have made the news. more Rubbish
• "Master Tony Blair wager of wars, accused of being a war criminal etc." Did not name the accusers because it is the opposition party and groups. This is pure political theater and you know it. Based on NOTHING. Take facts and give them meaningless connections. What you are saying simply is that your DISAGREE WITH HIS DECISION BUT HE HAD THE VOTES TO MAKE THEM.
• What does Blair have to do with him changing his name, being deranged and unstable, a violent criminal, and supporting Islamic terrorism. NOTHING.
So Eileen this is what the British think: "Daily Mail ahead of a television documentary on Muslim attitudes in Britain, Mr Phillips also warns:
• Extremist ideas have flourished while politicians claim ‘only a tiny minority hold dangerous views’;
• An estimated 100,000 British Muslims admit having sympathy with suicide bombers fighting injustice;
• Many believe it is divinely ordained that a woman should always obey her husband;
• Large numbers ‘do not accept the values and behaviours that make Britain what it is’.
Mr Phillips’ intervention comes after he was asked to analyse the findings of a major survey on Muslim attitudes in the UK, which will form the basis of Channel 4’s documentary.  He insists: ‘The reason why our fellow Britons seem so far out of line with mainstream opinion is that too many live in a different Britain to the rest of us.’
• A fifth have not entered the home of a non-Muslim in the past year.
• The poll found that 39 per cent of the 1,081 Muslim adult men and women questioned for the survey agreed that wives should always obey their husbands.
• One in three supports the right of a man to have more than one wife, even though it is illegal in the UK.
• Twenty-three per cent support the introduction of sharia law.
• Fifty-two per cent of the Muslims surveyed did not believe that homosexuality should be legal, and even more opposed gay marriage.
• Almost half thought it was unacceptable for a gay or lesbian to teach their children.
• And young Muslims were found to be nearly as far removed from the rest of British society as their elders.
• Mr Phillips says most Muslims in this ‘nation-within-a-nation’ reject violence in defence of their faith.
• But 4 per cent, equivalent to 100,000 British Muslims, had sympathy for those who used violent ends to defend Islam.
• The equalities campaigner pointed to the recent killing of Glasgow newsagent Asad Shah by a fellow Muslim.
• This life and death struggle: In a stark analysis, former equalities chief reveals how extremist ideals have been allowed to flourish
By Trevor Phillips
• Britain is in many ways a better place than it’s ever been – more prosperous, more diverse, more liberal.
• But for some of our fellow citizens, we’re heading in entirely the wrong direction. So much so that some of them would rather live under a wholly different system.
• Indeed, a significant minority of Britain’s three million Muslims consider us a nation of such low morals that they would rather live more separately from their non-Muslim countrymen, preferably
under sharia law.
• This sobering conclusion comes from the most comprehensive survey of British Muslims ever conducted, commissioned by Channel 4.  Having been asked to examine its results, I believe it holds a grim message for all of us.  There is a life-and-death struggle for the soul of British Islam – and this is not a battle that the rest of us can afford to sit out. We need to take sides.
• For the most part, Britain’s Muslims share most people’s preoccupations – jobs, homes, a future for their families. Nearly nine out of ten say they feel British.
• One of the reasons they like Britain is freedom to practise their religion as they see fit.
• But below the surface, the pollsters told us that a ‘chasm’ was developing between the attitudes of many British Muslims and their compatriots, driven by their adherence to their faith.
• More than half of Muslims think lesbian or gay relations
Thomas Sutrina Added Mar 24, 2017 - 8:41am
continue
• More than half of Muslims think lesbian or gay relationships should be illegal.
• Almost a third of British Muslims think polygamy – currently illegal – should be permitted.
• Young Muslims are nearly as enthusiastic for it as older Muslims.
• Two fifths (39 per cent) of Muslims say a woman should always obey her husband, compared to 5 per cent of non-Muslims.
• These views are not regarded as old-fashioned – they are seen by those who hold them as divinely ordained.
• Unfortunately, so is the Koranic injunction that a man may chastise his wife. It’s hard to avoid the conclusion that the instruction to ‘obey’ tells women that they should accept domestic abuse without complaint.
• Finally, there’s the small matter of the Jews: 35 per cent of British Muslims – compared to 8 per cent of others – believe Jewish people have too much power in Britain.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3533041/Warning-UK-Muslim-ghettoes-Nation-nationdeveloping-
says-former-equalities-watchdog.html
Doug Plumb Added Mar 24, 2017 - 11:29am
The Jews are concerned that the Muslims haven't had a life of holocaust indoctrination. We have, it is still in the papers once a week. Muslims tend to know about Jews, Westerners consider Jews to be their Gods, although not explicitly admitting it, they do so in their actions. Question Jews are you are labeled an anti semite, that is worse than a child molester in the minds of many.
Shane Laing Added Mar 24, 2017 - 11:54am
Eileen, Thomas has given you a bit a run down there.  Chilcot Inquiry was seen by many as a whitewash. No statements were under oath much to the publics annoyance.  We went to war so that the US could ensure it had adequate oil (2nd largest reserves). The WMDs intelligence was a joke we the public knew it (the word of a taxi driver was used).  George Bush and Tony Blair wanted Saddam to prove he didn't have them. How can you do that? The day before the attack the weapons inspectors told the UN that there was no evidence of any WMDs. Many of us believe the war was illegal and Blair should be put on trial. Irony is he was peace envoy to the Middle East.
As to the terror attack at Westminster.  It was a nut job running amok but the press over here really like to ramp the terror factor up.  I live and work here in London and everyone was going about their business quite normally after the initial incident.
Thomas Sutrina Added Mar 24, 2017 - 12:28pm
Shane L., I agree with the fact part of your comment.  Since I am not Blair or Bush and I do not know what advisors and the intelligence department told them.  So what is fact today may not have been the facts they were told when they made the decision.  Now how much effort was made to separate the chaff from the wheat will never be known.  But the buck stops at their desk.
Eileen tried to connect that which is unrelated together and did a bad job at it. 
Dave Volek Added Mar 25, 2017 - 10:49am
Eileen: I have read a few of your columns on WB. I like your perspectives and approach on dealing with people who have contrary viewpoints. 
 
As far as the Dutch voting the right way, the PVV still acquired 13% of the vote. They were the second largest party in the last election. There is still an underlying base of simmering resentment that is still going to shape political events for the next couple of decades. 
 
Plus when one adds that these western democratic elections can flip the result because of one wise move or one dumb move from a political leader, I'm not so sure we should deem a 13% vote as a resounding defeat for the PVV.
 
In your various articles, I sense that you are seeing some imbalance between how we are governed and results of our western society. In other words, the system really can't fix things for us. 
 
I invite you to inspect Tiered Democratic Governance. No political parties; no election campaigns; voting based on good character and capacity for governance.
 
Eileen de Bruin Added Mar 26, 2017 - 4:30am
Hello and thanks again for the commentary.
Thomas Sutrina, the Chilcott report is damning in its evidence against Tony Blair, you can check this out on many legitimate sources. It is all out there. He is a war criminal and he has caused much misery in the world, this is his greatest legacy. But he has amassed a fortune ans ten houses and now wants to be back in politics so is creating a think tank. Better name would be a Stink Tank.
Shane L, yes indeed and thanks. Ultimately these wars are about control of the oil, trade balance of world power. It is a shame that Blair went this way instead of following the mandate he was elected on. He never fulfilled any of that.
The consequences of the wars in Iraq include the founding and fuelling of radicalism borne of utter despair. Refugees are created through wars and in the case of the ongoing middle east wars, more refugees are emerging with no,where to go other than camps.
 
 
Again, thanks Shane: the attack on Westminster was by a deranged individual, whose purpose had nothing to do with Islam at all. Similarly, the attacker of the MP in Yorkshire, claimed Nazism to embed his own feelings of derangement and anger.  They were both unhinged and mentally ill.
The xenophobic outpouring from hate fuelled media has fed these stupid and utterly inadequate people. The awful hate against that Muslim woman whose photograph was taken on the bridge, is testament to this outpouring of irrational hate. Note that the government is happy to let all,of this take the focus away from very bad policies and illegal practices during the last election. 
 
Dave Volek, thank you. Yes, I am aware that the increasing seats of the PVV ishowing an increasing fear from ordinary people. Wilders participated barely in the debates running up to the elections as his only policy is to get rid of all Muslims full-stop. None of the other parties seem to want to work with him, which is the beauty of a coalition in its balancing capabilities. I fully understand the fear of Islam, but being aware that many ordinary Muslims are not even big believers and just getting on with their lives is a fact. Demographics will sort a lot out in the future maybe! But living in the now, it is important not to over react and allow irrational hate to enter us without challenge. It is in the interests of the current UK government to let this flourish, which they are doing. It is the old divide and rule strategy and tactics.
 
I will take a look at that link, thanks. Have you read Tressel's The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists?
 
Have a nice Sunday everyone.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Eileen de Bruin Added Mar 26, 2017 - 4:58am
Oops, by the way Stone-Eater, chuck whom out? British born people who go for radicalism? How would that fanatic on the Westminster bridge have described himself, I wonder? 
Doug, about the Palestinians. These Arabs are at the bottom of the Arab hierarchy and are often slaves in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia etc. There is little or no,respect for them from their Arab neighbours. when Kuwait was invaded by Iraq, do you recall...? Well it was hidden in despatches about the slaves working there being Palestinians. There was a case going on in London at the time about  Kuwaiti family abusing its Palestinian slave woman....she got a handsome payout thanks to the war and this family and its government not wanting any light shone on their true behaviour.
 
The truth behind the various situations in the Middle East is obscured if we are not aware of its hierarchies. The PLO's leaders tend to live richly in the Lebanon, fly around the world first class and don't bother spending much money on basic practical welfare for the people they "represent", and never mind education. It helps to keep the masses out there ignorant too. For whom? The elite mirrorring ours these days increasingly so.
 
By heck, I have much to read via you and Dave! :-)