America: Under Attack and Dying

America: Under Attack and Dying
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In response to Nathan Kelley's bitch ass rant about smokers I have decided to publish an article on a far more deadly, and wholly preventable, practice that is killing Americans in record numbers. Yes, folks, I'm talking about stuffing your face until the girth of your ass exceeds the width of your shoulders … I'm talking about ... Fat Ass-itis.

Here are the FACTS:

  1. America is in throes of an obesity epidemic. We now have more of our population grossly overweight and morbidly obese than at any time in our history. Just how bad is it? Well consider this, according to the Center for Disease Control more than 1/3 of all American adults are OBESE.

  2. The number of obese Children has doubled in the last 30 years and the rate now stands at a shocking 18% of Children ages 6 – 11 years old.

  3. For adolescents the rate for the same time period is also 18% which translates to more than 1/3 of all Children being OBESE.

Folks, Fat Ass-itis in America is a full blown epidemic and I'm here to raise awareness. In his “Smokers Rights” article Nathan went on at great length about how revolting and disgusting it was to be in the presence of smokers. Let me tell you something, good people, there is NOTHING more revolting and nausea inducing than seeing some sweaty, fat assed, slob stuffed into Spandex. The Spandex makes all the large curd cottage cheese cellulite stand out like mole hills on the open plains. I need not mention the rolls of too gross for words fat giggling against the Spandex trying to break free and bounce about at will. I'm telling you point blank that whenever I have to see some waddling 300 pound plus fatty jammed into clothes three sizes too small I usually just throw up in my mouth and I've had enough of the visual abuse!

Just how bad is it really? Well, according to a study published in “American Journal of Public Health” obesity accounts for 18% of all deaths in Americans between the ages of 40 – 85 … which is more than three times the previously published estimate.

Again, according the CDC, Heart Disease, which is intimately liked to obesity is THE number one killer in America with cancer coming in second. An enlightened nation confronts and conquers the toughest problems first, obviously. Therefore, I respectfully submit that the enemy we should have in our sight picture is Fat Ass-Itis … The War on Fat is on like Donkey Kong!

Here's the War Plan – Task the police with citing anyone more than 30% overweight with “Crimes Against Good Sense”, “Gluttony with Intent to Distribute”, and “Assault with a Disgusting Visual”.

They are to be sentenced to ForcePro's “Camp No Fat Asses Allowed” for an indeterminate length of time. Once their BMI is within normal limits they are to be freed, however, they are on a Fat Watch program for a minimum of one year post release. During this time they will be barred from Thomas Donut & Snack Shop, Dan-O-Donuts & Deli, Krispy Kreme Doughnuts, Donut Hole, and Dunkin' Donuts, all ice cream parlors, and the snacks section of all grocery stores. The rehabilitated fat ass will also have to report monthly to a Probation Officer for being weighed in order to insure that “fat creep” does not set in. Those who fail to remain fat free are to be returned to “Camp No Fat Asses Allowed” for a time determined by their no longer a fat ass date times two … twice the normal length of time in order to reinforce the message of "Don't be a goddamned FAT ASS".  Okay, that's the game plan ... discuss among yourselves ...


Contractor Added Nov 13, 2013 - 7:59am
@ Nathan - "Bitch-ass rant?  Ouch!"
I am working hard on my PC-speak and making great progress if I do say so myself.
Steve Borsher Added Nov 13, 2013 - 8:46am
As of yesterday, all that is no longer a problem.  Cholesterol is no longer a "number", like testosterone. Instead, take a statin or don't; it's all the same.  I said elsewhere, as a comment on that article: "Will a Baconator a day now keep the doctor away?"
Contractor Added Nov 13, 2013 - 9:25am
Nathan, you hit upon the salient features of the obesity problem in American and it distills to "life style' which is a choice.
There are also some marketing forces in play that have completely distorted authentic Physical Culture to polar extremes. At one end we have ... "And you too can have a ripped body and six pack abs with no work while watching TV." and at the other extreme is "You have to suffer the angst of the damned to get into shape" ... both are total garbage.
Contemporary Sports Science studies clearly indicate that all that is required is one hour of properly structured exercise per week and it requires neither gym membership nor equipment.
The key feature is "intensity" of exercise and it really shouldn't be any more than 20 minutes in duration ... otherwise, cortisol production kicks in and that will make you fat.
Furthermore, that whole distance running, and exercising for extended periods of time thing has proved to be terrible for your heart. It is Heart Rate Variability that strengthens your heart, not steady state elevated rate for time. Sprint interval work, 6 sprints for approximately 20 seconds each, walking back to the start point is the rest interval. Izumi Tabata really tore down the Long Distance, and extended time training myths.
There are many places for pointing the finger ... personally, I blame the Weider Brothers for destroying Physical Culture in America.  "Body Building" was the death of holistic, healthy, and life long physical fitness. It is not by accident or coincidence that the feats of strength of old school strongmen have not been matched, much less bettered, by today's allegedly strength athletes.
Anabolic steroid (mis)use by High School aged people is a real problem that is ignored because it's very much underground.
At the other end of it I blame the consumer as caveat emptor applies. Anyone who buys into the ridiculous position that improvement, of whatever nature, comes about with little effort or work is either brain addled or delusional. 
@ Nathan - "If you go overseas, it odd for American how unsweet their sweets are.  Apple struedel in Germany is more like an apple bread."
Agreed, it's like that around the world from my experience. BTW, I saw a lot of Fat-Asses in Germany, back then it was the FRG. Entire families of wide bodies strolling along on volksmarches. I lived in Mainz, Gonsenheim for a couple of years and marched about every weekend. 
@ Nathan - "Now the poor are often the fattest among us."
That's changing and changing fast.
If people would simply follow your dietary advice they would cut fat. Here's what I saw just last night. I had to run out to the store for something. There were three people in front of me at the register, all three were Fat-Asses. The one directly in front of me qualified for a "Wide Load" sign for their ass. What was the fatty buying? How about this: Edy's Ice Cream, Oreo Cookies, Tasty Cakes, a big bag of Lays chips, and two regular Cokes. Oh, and they were in the store in their pajamas wearing shower shoes ... straight up, no lie.
I watched them get into their black Volvo S80 and drive away ... probably around the block ... nice car though.
Robin the red breasted songster Added Nov 13, 2013 - 10:33am
Walk more.   Not only do you get exercise, you also do less damage to the environment.   You also tend to socialise more with your neighbours and have much more fun as a result.
And, most importantly, you can drink as much as you like without worrying.
Last year I was a pedestrian whilst we lived in a town flat (we were building a new house).   It was great just walking into town to go to a concert, restaurant, pub etc.
However towns here are more compact.  They have a definite centre that is set up for pedestrians.
Perhaps the answer is in a new approach to town planning.
Steve Borsher Added Nov 13, 2013 - 10:38am
Your figures certainly explain why the Hispanics are taking over the country and not the Blacks. It also explains how 0bama got elected  twice: the Blacks were easy to pander to. But we already knew that. The important question is what do we do about it now?
And sex is the ultimate free beneficial pleasure.  It is an aerobic workout, if done properly; and everything you stick in your mouth is low cal. However, what precedes sex could be high cal, like a chocolate fondue. But then you burn that right off; again, if done properly.
Contractor Added Nov 13, 2013 - 10:56am
@ Christopher - "America is a Third-World country."
Uh ... NO is the correct answer. You might want to try First World Industrial Power. 
Contractor Added Nov 13, 2013 - 11:02am
@ Robin - "And, most importantly, you can drink as much as you like without worrying."
Not in American ... Public Intoxication is a crime.
Hey, check this out. Back in the 1970s I was visiting some people in New Hampshire. So, I go out to walk around a bit to get a feel for the place ... great architecture and history.
I stop into a pub and grad a bottle of beer to go and set off on my walk. Not knowing the area, and it being winter time, I go safe and walk around the block a couple of times to get some landmarks.
A cop stops, gets out of his car, and threatened to arrest me. I thought he was busting on me for having a beer in my hand in public (also a crime in some states) My crime? Walking around the block twice without another person. Straight up ... in New Hampshire, you have to have someone with you to walk around the block two times or more. 
Contractor Added Nov 13, 2013 - 11:04am
@ BL - "Is it safe to assume your solution to the problem of obesity was written in jest?"
Of course, I laughed my ass off writing that piece ... I crack me up. I also run one mean and lean fat-ass camp ...
Steve Borsher Added Nov 13, 2013 - 11:13am
Maybe the cop was joking.  I'll ask a friend who lives in NH about that.  I go to Key West to walk around with drinks.
And now we know your real secret for staying in shape: laughing your ass off.  Maybe you could market that to the Widettes.
Contractor Added Nov 13, 2013 - 11:18am
@ Steve - "Maybe the cop was joking.  I'll ask a friend who lives in NH about that." 
"Blue Law" and might not still be on the books. Nope, cop was dead serious.
@ Steve - "I go to Key West to walk around with drinks."

I was born in Key West and I walk around with a 4G blunt whenever I get down there ... birth right don't you know ...
@ Steve - "And now we know your real secret for staying in shape: laughing your ass off." 
The down side is every time I go to sit down I wind up sitting on my shoulders.
Robin the red breasted songster Added Nov 13, 2013 - 11:28am
Laughter is, most definitely, very good for you.
Glad public intoxication is not a crime here... otherwise I would never have gotten up enough courage to sing solo in public.
I guess that booze and guns don't mix well.
Contractor Added Nov 13, 2013 - 11:34am
@ Robin - "Glad public intoxication is not a crime here... otherwise I would never have gotten up enough courage to sing solo in public."
Yepper, Jagermeister has launched many a Rock Star.
@ Robin - "I guess that booze and guns don't mix well."
More of a hold over from Puritan times than anything. 
Contractor Added Nov 13, 2013 - 11:58am
@ Carolyn - "The fat and ugly Conservative Tea Party Assholes love MONSANTO who is poisoning us with  GMO FRANKENFOOD!"
Well then, quit putting the goddamned shit in your mouth ... too easy.
@ Carolyn - "I am 56 years old and my Hawaiian surf instructors are hitting on me!"
And I'm 57 and my Son's 18 year old GFs hit on me ... absolutely vomit inducing thought.
@ Carolyn - "CONSERVATIVES love Subway sub and McDonald's and that is killing them and poisoning their fat brains."
And Liberals love Tasty Kreme and Penera that poison their Vegan atrophied brains and is killing them .. what's your point?
Steve Borsher Added Nov 13, 2013 - 12:04pm
It is a shame when people go blind at a young age.
The consensus from NH and from my research, is that the cop was treating you as a vagrant.  There were no open can laws at the time; even for drivers.  It is, or was, the "Live Free or Die" state.
Contractor Added Nov 13, 2013 - 12:13pm
@ Steve - "The consensus from NH and from my research, is that the cop was treating you as a vagrant."
It wasn't based on open container, it was based on my walking around the same block twice alone. Blue Law.
Vagrant? Sure, that makes sense. After all, everyone knows that vagrants are very much prone to walking about wearing a Brooks Brothers suit and Clarks shoes (they were still made in England at the time).
Steve Borsher Added Nov 13, 2013 - 1:15pm
Maybe he never saw a suit like that before, and thought you were an alien. Or, more likely, he was just jealous. "We don't take to your kind 'round here, Mr. Big Business man." 
Contractor Added Nov 13, 2013 - 2:19pm
@ Matthew - Solid comments and on point. Actually, being physically fit carries with it the advantage of being able to indulge in some vice from time to time without negative consequences. A BMI tilted heavily in favor in muscle tissue means a higher caloric sustainment level ... which basically means you can scarf down a bowl of ice cream once a week or so and it will be burned off. I like Moose Tracks frozen yogurt and usually do up a bowl once a week with no ill effect.
@ Diana - " ... integrate regular excercise into your life (for those who work, schedule it as an appointment each day if you must)."
It's simply not that difficult a thing to do. Three 20 minute intense exercise sessions per week. I've worked with people who had really tight schedules and wanted to get into shape. What I suggest such people do is start setting their alarm clock 10 minutes earlier every week for 3 weeks. They now have an extra 30 minutes of time without any sense of sleep deprivation.
If a person exercises first thing in the morning, before eating anything, they enjoy an approximately double calorie expenditure as the body is in a fasting state.
For those that find exercise to be physically uncomfortable first thing in the morning is best because pain receptors down regulate during sleep ... greater pain tolerance upon first awakening.
At any rate, it's possible to set up your exercise schedule so that you have one of the days on your day off when things are less hectic. One hour a week is not an impossible thing to find.
Of course, those suffering from Fat-Assitis are also predisposed to the illness known as Bull-Shitis-Excusis ... deadly combo I tell you.
Richard Plank Added Nov 14, 2013 - 4:00am
While I would not go to such draconian lengths as a metaphor to shake people up you have done your job.   The question is will people start to look at this seriously and weigh the possibilities to deal with this.  It certainly impacts our health care costs as a society and we can certainly draw some reasonable cause and effects to why our society has this problem.
It seems some people on this have to some extent taken responsibility for their own health and I think most people will argue that is good.  I would go some far as to say the biggest disease we have in most human societies is simply mental;  It is not about rights, but about obligations that is what makes a civilized society run, well "civilized".  So once people as a whole take that more seriously in their lives we can start to see some progress. But government can help and it should.  After all it is the glue that keeps most societies functioning at some level and in our somewhat democratic government we can all take some part in making it all work.  Another big issue not well understood, but worth talking about is we are all interconnected.  None of us are random digits immune from the impacts of others; so a major decision that has to be made is what degree of interconnectiveness are we going to argue for.   That is the same question for the global warming or cooling debate.  The question is not if, but what is the interconnectiveness of the human race with nature and what do we cause and can we rectify it.  Is past history holds NYC will be under ice sheets in 15,000 years, but are we doing things that either accelerate or dampen that and is that good?
With our current issue I think government must play a role. I think there are lots of sensible things we can do in terms of regulation that can impact on this problem.  Like any other problem there are some individual differences that impact the people so affected; so draconian solutions, which usually don't take that into account, are not a fair solution and will probably only create lots of negative backlash. 
Certain foods seem to impact this problem.  We can't outlaw them, history tells us that usually does not work, but we have many alternatives such as education, the tax system, and other socially impactful tools to get change.
Re exercise, we could do something draconian such as outlaw all professional sports.  If you are like me and believe that the average 5th grade teacher and police officer should get paid more than the quarterback of the local pro football team, because simply they are worth more to society then this is possibly attractive to  you.  After all if 5th grade teachers and police officers disappear we have a problem not so with professional sports teams, if they disappear there is some short term economic disruption, but it will work itself out in fairly short order.  Well that is not going to happen and it probably should not as they do make attempts to deal with the exercise problem of youth, although the impact they are having on that score is questionable in total.  So we have other  things we can do, a lot of it is with parenting and the roles models we play for our kids.  So while we can legislate and regulate to some extent it will still come down in the short run to what we as people do. 
Complex issue no simple answer.
Contractor Added Nov 14, 2013 - 7:38am
@ Richard - "The question is will people start to look at this seriously and weigh the possibilities to deal with this."
I'm going with "no" on this one. The supplement industry is making billions of dollars selling "snake oil" weight lost products ... and America is getting fatter.
@ Richard - "It certainly impacts our health care costs as a society ..."

And results in a lesser quality of life. Obese people are well aware of the fact they are lugging around a lot of excess  poundage and present an image of being lazy.

@ Richard - "... and we can certainly draw some reasonable cause and effects to why our society has this problem."

One reason is the continuing marketing driven shift to "virtual" world living. A good many people, especially youth, do not play ... they play at playing. A very bad habit to establish at a young age. I cannot begin to put a number on the adults I know who spend several hours a week "playing" Call of Duty rather than playing with real exercise.

@ Richard - " I think there are lots of sensible things we can do in terms of regulation that can impact on this problem."

I disagree. Government has proved to be ineffective at addressing the things it was designed to address. What you are advocating for is essentially going to a source of failure for a successful solution. Much like morality, you cannot legislate personal responsibility.

@ Richard - "Certain foods seem to impact this problem."

That's a bit of a mis-perception. Last year a researcher went on a total junk food only diet for several weeks. He lost fat, his cholesterol levels improved ... it's calories consumed.

Is it in the best interest of a person to eat healthy foods? Sure, however, the problem centers on a lack of physical activity. If you burn more calories in a day than you consume, you lose weight. Simple. 

@ Richard - "Re exercise, we could do something draconian such as outlaw all professional sports."

I fail to see the connection. I would favor outlawing video games for anyone under the age of 18.

@ Richard - "If you are like me and believe that the average 5th grade teacher and police officer should get paid more than the quarterback of the local pro football team,"

Wholly irrelevant and given the crappy job public school educators are doing I hardly see where a reward is in order. I'm a former teacher by the way.

@ Richard - "a lot of it is with parenting and the roles models"

Right on point.


Contractor Added Nov 14, 2013 - 7:42am
@ Richard - "Complex issue no simple answer."

I disagree, there is a simple and direct answer ... re-instate legitimate PE starting from Grade K. The majority of time in public education is eaten up by useless activities and social indoctrination. Expose Children to the joys of physical activity and I don't mean the useless garbage called "recess" ... real exercise. When was the last time you saw climbing ropes in a Junior High School gym and Children climbing them? We did it all the time, great fun. Go back to old school exercise routines and help Children establish an appreciation for physical culture. Establish good physical fitness habits at an early age. Too easy.
Steve Borsher Added Nov 14, 2013 - 11:11am
I'm sure you know that budget cuts have ended PE school programs in a number of locals. That is just another example of the erosion of our country via the random anti-American actions of the politicians.
My grandsons are all active in outside sports. They find it an enjoyable distraction from school; which they all hate, even though they are A students. Go figure.
Contractor Added Nov 14, 2013 - 11:49am
@ Steve - "I'm sure you know that budget cuts have ended PE school programs in a number of locals."
Yes, and you are, IMO, right on point regarding the further erosion.  
Switching gears - Steve, I owe you an apology for posts on another thread. It was rough play that got out of hand and I sincerely apologize for my part in it. I wish you nothing but peace, my friend.
Steve Borsher Added Nov 14, 2013 - 12:00pm
Accepted. Let's keep it cool from now on.
Contractor Added Nov 14, 2013 - 12:29pm
Dear Nathan:
I sincerely apologize for your bitch ass rant ... happy now are we? :)
Contractor Added Nov 14, 2013 - 1:17pm
@ Keith - "If I am fat, my fatness does not affect your health, if you fill the air with your smoke, you do affect my health."
A few things, one, your fat does affect my health, it affects my financial health as obesity related illnesses are driving up the cost of health care all around.
Secondly, take your punk ass away from smokers if it bothers you so much ... and stay the hell out of LA and W. Va. as well.
Thirdly, I have had all the fat asses with shitty health bitching about second hand smoke I'm going to take. Fat Asses don't care about their health, obviously, the slob brigade is just indulging in PC Nazi tactics at my expense.
Why should I have to suffer through the uncontrollable urge to throw up in my own mouth every time I see some sorry Wide Load waddling down the street with a bag of Krispy Kremes being rapidly stuffed into their triple chinned fat face?
We have laws regarding public decency and I'm pushing hard for Fat Asses to be put on the banned from public list. Maybe you are okay with blubbery displays of outright gluttony blobbing about ... but I'm not.
Steve Borsher Added Nov 14, 2013 - 2:14pm
Smoking tolerance all came down to $$$.  Restaurants first installed smoke eaters, then isolated smoking sections, and then limited to the bars, then got rid of it all together; in a segue that did not hurt them too financially.  And the government helped the cigarette companies the same way.  Those that continue to smoke pay the price for it in $$$, probably justified by lower economies of scale. But we all know where the money really goes.
Obesity tolerance is starting down the same path. Airlines charging for the extra size and weight, etc.  And health insurance companies should do the same; maybe some already do.  Yes, you have the right to be fat and/or smoke, but it is only fair to everyone else that you pay an extra cost for that; be it financially or socially.
What if I said that seeing a grossly obese person made my physically ill, as second hand smoke did others? Where is my mitigation or compensation for that?
Steve Borsher Added Nov 14, 2013 - 2:48pm
Do the fools on the hill pay more for healthcare because they smoke?  ForcePro may be covered by Government Insurance as well.
Contractor Added Nov 14, 2013 - 2:54pm
@ Keith - "Can't get away from smokers because they are everywhere and have not consideration for others."
Same with me and Fat Asses. So, I'm  getting a little R & R in Bahrain and I'm sitting in a restaurant having just ordered my meal. In walks a family of two legged elephants ... I mean Mom & Pops Fat Ass and five Fat Ass kids ... the goddamned Mom was so HUGE that the waitress had to move a table in order for her bigger than big Fat Ass to fit between the isles ... I kid you not.
I get over the shock of seeing an entire tribe of SLOBS, manage to suppress the urge to projectile hurl and go about my business. A short while later the two waitresses walk in with what I think is my order and someone else's. They proceed to walk right by me and up to herd of human elephants.
"Oh Hell No!!!" think I. I'm not playing that Arabs first bullshit. I turn around to rip on the waitress and am stunned into silence by what I see. The Fat Assess had each ordered their own appetizer, and I'm telling you each appetizer was good for 4 "normal" people. Straight truth.
@ Keith - "As for the cost of healthcare, I think the cost of care for the elderly is really the biggest reason for the increase in healthcare costs, not obesity."
Keep thinking, and while you are at it check the statistics for Fat Ass related diseases ... it's Number 1 with a bullet. 
@ Keith - "Just think about how much money you would save with both discounts?"  
Dude, I'm a Contractor. I hunt for things that go bump in the middle of the night in the desert badlands of the ME for a living. My insurance is paid for and dying of smoking is the least of my concerns ... you know, there are people over "there" that actually try to kill me? Can you imagine that ... I mean, me, of all people.
@ Keith - You should really think about quitting smoking.
Well ... okay, I've just finished my third work-out for the day and am all done now. So, I'll think about it ... while smoking a nice strong menthol and enjoying a cup of hot coffee.
Contractor Added Nov 14, 2013 - 3:00pm
@ Steve - Airlines charging for the extra size and weight, etc.
About goddamn time. A few years back I was flying home from the ME for vacation and I had a Fat Ass right next to me. That fucking slob easily took up a seat and a half. Fortunately for me there were a couple of empty seats on the flight and once we got airborne I told a Stewardess that the Fat Ass was all over my space and she moved me to another seat.
Sonsofbitches are a real inconvenience in elevators as well. One Fat Ass means two other people have to wait for another elevator ... and need I mention being behind one in a grocery store line? It's like their preparing for Armageddon every damn time ... wastes my time feeding their FAT.
Steve Borsher Added Nov 14, 2013 - 3:31pm
I'm sorry, but you're going to have to do better than that to tip the scales in your favor. Your ankles are probably already screaming for help; you just can't hear them.
I've stopped smoking and I've lost lost a lot of weight; both finally over 20 years ago.  Losing the weight was always far easier than stopping smoking.  That may not be true of everyone, I admit; but it really isn't that hard. Obviously, you just don't want to.
Send me an email address where I can send you something.
Contractor Added Nov 14, 2013 - 4:07pm
@ Keith - "You are much more expensive to cover than a fat guy like me;"
Dude, if not for guys like me you wouldn't have to worry about being a lazy Fat Ass ... Taliban or Al-Qaeda would blow your fat ass up or cut your fat head off ... too easy.
Steve Borsher Added Nov 14, 2013 - 4:59pm
Well, Keith, then you are not obese, See, that was easy. I knew if I worked long and hard enough on you, that I would figure it out. As I tell my grandkids: "Everything can ultimately be figured out".
I am obese under the latest medical definitions, based upon Body Mass Index; but I am not fat. And not one of my legion of drs has told me to lose weight.  Of course, all my drs are the type of dr that any intelligent person would die for (kind of negating the need to find one); and they all think that BMI measurements are a crock. What do yours say?
Is your cholesterol high? Is your blood pressure high? My are under control, sort of, by medication.  I would say that if you have neither of those conditions, then obesity suits you; and there is no arguing about that. So, you are not really the person that ForcePro is referring to; you are merely pleasingly plump. So, why are we all even having this discussion?
Contractor Added Nov 14, 2013 - 5:00pm
@ Keith - "As for you @ForcePro, as someone who served 24 years in the military I have learned that most braggarts are really just wannabe’s."
Probably true for pogues like you. Most of you knob jockeys never got a smell of war much less a fire fight so you steal the war stories of others and make them your own.
@ Keith - "The US Special Forces are unofficially known as “the quiet professionals” for a reason."

Thanks, and when I was on ODA 735, and then 726 I was very, very quiet. I went Echo Tango Suitcase in the mid 1990s.

@ Keith "And I am pretty sure that an OGA operator would not be bragging about their job in an open forum."

And I'm pretty sure a shit bag like you is talking out his ass ... it's not OGA, it's ODA for"Operational Detachment Alpha" poseur.

@ Keith - "I suppose it’s possible that you are a contractor for a company similar to the now defunct Blackwater – those types of companies do not really seem to have standards."

And by all means, Fat Ass, tell me all about your experiences as a Contractor. Erik Prince's group required vetting as a SpecOps Operator and none of the groups I've contracted with accepted anything other than Combat Veterans with a Combat Arms MOS. As a US DoD Contractor we were held to much higher standards than slugs such as yourself. Weapons qualification as Expert every 4 - 5 months, when it was Black Flag we continued on as before while maggot regulars like you hid in shelters. Our primary mission upon contact was to force a stalemate and hold the enemy in place for 15 minutes until the lazy Fat Asses in today's Army finally showed up. Our PFT included full hang, no kipping pull ups in addition to the standard Army PFT and we were always graded on the 17 - 21 scale ... I maxed it with 300 every single time.
Hey Keith, seriously, this is getting boring; you're an idiot with a lot of mouth and Fat so why don't you just fuck off.  De Oppresso Liber, dirt bag, De Oppresso Liber ...
Robin the red breasted songster Added Nov 16, 2013 - 5:01am
Clinical obesity is a term which could quite happily be applied to most front row rugby players.  Yet these guys are extremely fit
Contractor Added Nov 16, 2013 - 8:03am
@ Robin - Not sure what you mean by "clinical obesity" ... however, for morbid obesity the definition is clear:
Morbid obesity is diagnosed by determining the Body Mass Index. BMI is defined by the ratio of an individual’s height to his or her weight. An individual is morbidly obese if he/she is 100 pounds over his/her ideal body weight, has a BMI of 40 or more, or 35 or more and experiencing obesity-related health conditions, such as high blood pressure or diabetes.
"Fitness" is a rather slippery term, Robin as there are many types of fitness. This was an argument raging in gyms "back in the day" and I'll give you an example.
A competitive cyclist is extremely fit, for their target activity. Yet, put them in a swimming pool and instruct them to swim 800 meters as fast as possible with whatever swim stroke they choose and they'll be exhausted before they even swim 200 meters. I use to do the swim test thing with guys who boasted about their fitness level ... I use to bet $100 on the outcome and always collected.
In America, our football linemen tend to be carrying around a lot of bulk and those guys are deceptively light on their feet as well as capable of playing  a full game all out. Are they fit? Sure, for their sport.
It becomes a matter of definition and my preference is make it as broad as possible. A Triathlete is probably about the best competitive athletic model we have today. I'm not really convinced we regular folks should pattern our physical culture pursuits on such a high end model.
"Good" physical strength, cardio-vascular, and flexibility are my guidelines. "All things in moderation." Aristotle
BTW, Rugby is a total beast sport, and those guys are truly phenomenal.  
Steve Borsher Added Nov 17, 2013 - 3:44pm
And the terminally obese are those who cannot even fit into the jetway; let alone into a seat on the plane. And yet they still try. God bless them; every one. That came from the holiday spirit in me.  And I'm leaving now to drink some more.
Contractor Added Nov 17, 2013 - 4:05pm
@ Steve - "And the terminally obese are those who cannot even fit into the jetway; let alone into a seat on the plane."
Those kind of people should be pumped full of helium and converted into blimps ... make a few bucks off lighted advertisement on their sides.
Steve Borsher Added Nov 18, 2013 - 10:56am
I know you are a fan of Fight Club. And that's all I will say on the subject of what to do with "those kind of people".
Contractor Added Nov 18, 2013 - 6:12pm
I have declared JIHAD on Fat Asses everywhere. There is no fast food joint to hide in from my wrath!!!
Steve Borsher Added Nov 18, 2013 - 6:33pm
But isn't it healthy excessive fat now?  Ever see the documentary "Super-size Me"?  Strange things happen when otherwise healthy people indulge themselves in junk food; especially when they OD on it.
Contractor Added Nov 18, 2013 - 6:54pm
Earlier this year of late last year a researcher went on an all junk food diet. For years a debate has been raging regarding diet, calories, and health.
So, he goes on a 1500 calories a day diet consisting of Hostess cakes and such. After several weeks he came off the diet and had blood panels done in order to assess his cholesterol levels checked, weighed in, etc. Bottom line, it's calories as his cholesterol levels had improved and his BMI improved as well.
Not something a person would want to do for an extended period of time due to micro-nutrients being absent and sugar content being high ... but it proved a point. It's not WHAT you eat so much as it is how MUCH you eat ... calories.
Steve Borsher Added Nov 19, 2013 - 7:54am
Steve Borsher Added Nov 19, 2013 - 7:59am
The times I lost the most weight, was when I would just start eating as little as possible.  No breakfast, which is really not a good thing, snack lunch, and a simple sandwich for supper.  Probably about 500-800 calories/day. But it always started out with a nasty withdrawal episode.  Sugar is just as addictive as any other drug.  Getting off those Twinkies must have been a bitch.
Contractor Added Nov 19, 2013 - 9:24am
@ Keith - "Anyone who really served in the military will immediately recognize that you are a fraud simply by glancing at your profile on this website"
"Funny" it's all on my DD214. Jealously does strange things to people, pogue.
@ Keith - " if you were really a special operator you would know about OGA's - especially if you were a contractor as you claim to be.  ODA - Special Forces; OGA - CIA.  Special Forces do not hire contractors, but the CIA does."
I was in 7th SFG(A) and on two ODAs ... you were on how many?
I wasn't a Contractor with the CIA ... I've been exclusively on DoD contracts. Seems you have a difficult time with reading and comprehension ... probably time lines as well.
You can't marginalize me, pogue, so why don't you play a few more rounds of Call of Duty ... pound sand, wannabe.
Contractor Added Nov 19, 2013 - 9:31am
@ Keith - "So if you are a contractor in Afghanistan and you do not know about OGA's, then maybe you are a contractor in KBR's laundry facility?"
Too funny!!! No doubt you're on a first name basis with laundry facilities. What's the matter Low Speed, High Drag, they staunch your tighty whiteys once?
I wasn't going to mention this, but since you're such a punk ass bitch, your total combat experience is "observing" and I don't see any wings on your chest ... a dirty, nasty, stinking leg "observer" ... what a joke.
Contractor Added Nov 19, 2013 - 9:47am
@ Steve - "No breakfast, which is really not a good thing, snack lunch, and a simple sandwich for supper.  Probably about 500-800 calories/day."
Actually, if you work out prior to breaking fast, you get an approximately two fold increase in calorie burn. 
@ Steve - Uh-oh.
No problems, Keith is just another Payne ... typical "liberal" as in all mouth no action. I'm waiting for him to post up how anyone who had been in the military would know I was a liar based on my profile. My awards and skill badges are all strictly legit and I EARNED every one of them. I'm not about to let some knob jockey "observer" break stupid and skate away unbloodied.
Steve Borsher Added Nov 19, 2013 - 10:45am
Maybe his military knowledge all comes from reading Tom Wolfe novels.  Wolfe's works were very technically detailed; so much so that he had to remove much of the details from Hunt For Red October.
Contractor Added Nov 19, 2013 - 12:50pm
@ Steve - "Maybe his military knowledge all comes from reading Tom Wolfe novels."
I gave him credit for having been there, done that as his information concerning some things unknown to outsiders is on point. He in turn got all butt hurt and actually thought he can diss or marginalize me ... no way. I'm thinking he was either CA or MI ... perhaps a Mud Puppy.
Regardless, if he wants to flame rather than just admit we both stepped on it in our posts and set past differences aside I'm down with it. Personally, I'm good with admitting my part of it and moving forward. He served and I respect that.
Contractor Added Nov 19, 2013 - 2:33pm
@ Keith - Then I eat your air, Jump Master, 7th SFG(A) JM School, first time go, and set the record for JMPI ... not that you would know anything about that.
The 7th SFG(A) was combined Jump Master/Pathfinder, Bronze Star as a lowly Specialist when the award was reserved for Field Grade Commissioned Officers ... eat it again, Major. Lowest ranking NCO to ever hold a permanent slot on the XVIIIth Abn Corps 64 Man RDF fly away package and Gary Luck was good with that. I only have a handful of significant accomplishments in the short time I was in ... but the ones I do have rock.
And by the way, Keith, you are living proof that the old saw regarding Majors is straight up truth, pre-frontal lobotomy and you forgot every thing you ever knew as a CPT ... and I mean that in the nicest way possible.
Steve Borsher Added Nov 19, 2013 - 2:43pm
And you don't hold it twice; at least not the grudge.  I was wrong about you, you are a big guy. And I'm just taking pot shots, here and there, to try to reduce some of the tension. "Why can't we get along?"
I don't know enough to uncover anything from FP's profile. All I know about the military is from my father-in-law.  He just turned 90, and for that birthday I sent his name and service record in for recognition by the French. They consider anyone who served any time in France during WWII, and award the Legion d’Honneur based upon their contribution.  He, and another vet, were awarded it last April, by the French Ambassador, in Boston Harbor on a French military ship. I missed the ceremony because of a flare up in my illness. The medal is extremely cool. He also has a bronze and a silver star, and a Purple Heart; among other citations. His wife just had them all framed, along with the Legion d’Honneur certificate for his recent birthday. I know he is not lying when he tells us about his experiences. I have seen his medals and citations first hand. I also made sure he got into the DC memorial database; along with my father, who was a state side doctor. 
My father-in-law was a sargeant throughout WWII. He trained and took platoons into battle; over and over and over. He was 18 when he entered, and was out be 22.  In France, he took over his company when the captain was killed. That is probably what got him the award from the French; I played that up big time.  He got the purple heart after he got a concussion from a nearby grenade.  They threw it on his hospital bed, just as he was leaving to return to battle; after only about 3 weeks.  He had a mild stroke after bypass surgery in 1997, and only then did anyone discover the brain damage he suffered from that grenade; he just came back from the war and helped built our country into what it was; until recently. So, I really don't care what anyone else claims to have done in any subsequent military action; there is no surpassing my FIL's stories, in my mind. The SCrOTUS recently ruled that it is within one's 1st Amendment right to lie about their military record. So, have at it.
Contractor Added Nov 19, 2013 - 2:44pm
@ Keith - The only trigger time you have, Keith, is at that sorry ass once a year qualification on the range ... engaging in "marksmanship" ... NOT "combat shooting" ... just thought you should know. Took some fire and got saved by a Patriot battery ... *ROFLMAO* what a fucking SLUG.
Contractor Added Nov 19, 2013 - 3:06pm
@ Steve - Silver Star? Now that's rocking.
& Keith - I'm going with "bullshit" on your 5 jump chump and bull winkle wings claim. They aren't on your in your pic and no one I ever met wasn't proud of having made it. Pin on if nothing else and that was in a war zone.
Your rank claim makes sense.
Steve Borsher Added Nov 19, 2013 - 3:42pm
I'm getting the medals frame fixed.  Some "well known" framer of military medals must be saddled with political nepotism. I'll try to remember to take pictures of the medals and certificate when I return it and hang it on the wall.  These medals are duplicates of his originals.  Did you know it is possible to get them replaced?
Contractor Added Nov 19, 2013 - 4:03pm
@ Steve - "Did you know it is possible to get them replaced?"
No I did not. I gave everything to my Son. 4 1/2 rows of ribbons as SGT, and I always had to make a choice as to which foreign Army award I was going to wear. I turned heads on Ft. Bragg was was and is not an easy thing to do. Even at that, all my "I love me" shit combined pales when compared to a Silver Star earned by an enlisted troop.
Frame it all and put it in your Will to someone who will respect and cherish it.
Steve Borsher Added Nov 19, 2013 - 4:30pm
It will never be in my Will.  It will pass from my FIL to my MIL and then to my wife.  Maybe when we get it, we will find a museum that might want it. Any suggestions?
I think he got the medals replaced only about 10 years ago, when he started attending his division's reunions. He never talked about the war or his commendations until then. I have the acknowledgement of request, with the physical and Internet addresses on it.
Contractor Added Nov 19, 2013 - 4:51pm
 @ Steve - "Any suggestions?"
Sure, West Point would love to have them. They will be viewed for as long as there is an America.
Steve Borsher Added Nov 19, 2013 - 9:11pm
"Excellent!" Thanks, Garth.
Contractor Added Nov 19, 2013 - 10:24pm
@ Keith - "If you were in the military, Steve, perhaps you can look at his profile and tell him how I know he is lying?"
I believe you were a Major as only a Major could be so blatantly retarded. You're telling someone else to tell me and the reason you won't say is because I would go "fix" it. Huh? 

@ Keith - "Then again, I really doubt that ForcePro has seen any combat either."

Sure, bullet counter. I've got more trigger time in one deployment than you have in your entire 20 years. Of course, you got me beat on the paper cuts ...
Contractor Added Nov 19, 2013 - 10:27pm
@ Keith - And quit the double posts. It breaks the flame war rhythm. Brain dead Majors. They're all alike ... useless.
Contractor Added Nov 20, 2013 - 8:49am
@ Keith - " ...  you and I both know that you never earned a Bronze Star with Victory Device."
Absolute bullshit ... that's your "proof"? 
A declaration by "you" and nothing more? Pathetic. Jealousy has rotted you to the core.
Okay, I've just been playing up to this point, but quite obviously you are a total shit bag and I sincerely mean that.

I'm going to have my Son bring it with him when he visits for Christmas, and I'm going to PDF it to Autumn with my DD214, and I'll see about providing her with an independent means of confirming it as awards and DD214s can and have been forged.

And then, you substandard piece of shit I'm going to hound your sorry fucking ass right off this forum. Keith "The Liar" Fitzpatrick. 
Contractor Added Nov 20, 2013 - 9:10am
Hey shit bag, you are the one saying it isn't true so the burden is on you. I'll provide Autumn with the proof and then you can just crawl under a rock and disappear from here.
It's in the award narrative, you sad sack of shit.
Contractor Added Nov 20, 2013 - 9:27am
Found a copy of my DD214 as an attachment to an old job application ... Bronze Service Star - 21. Attaching and sending it to Autumn now. Pack your gear, shit bag, you're leaving.
Steve Borsher Added Nov 20, 2013 - 10:18am
I'll save FP the trouble of sending photos.  Here is a similar "discussion". There does seem to be some confusion over it.  It only takes a quick Google to solve these arguments.  But I have another friend who is severely Google challenged. but, then, he uses a Mac.
Steve Borsher Added Nov 20, 2013 - 10:27am
And my FIL had an oak leaf cluster on his Bronze.  This gave me the chance to look that up. So, thanks; sort of.
Steve Borsher Added Nov 20, 2013 - 10:42am
So what is FP saying that is not correct?  Looks to me like you proved him right.
Steve Borsher Added Nov 20, 2013 - 11:35am
I don't get your distinction, and I think you are slitting hairs.  If he has a Bronze Star with the V device on the ribbon, I think the way it is described in his profile is acceptable; but, as I said, I have no military experience.  Even if he did show you a picture, I doubt you wold be satisfied at this point. I don't know whether you are right or wrong about FP, or he is right or wrong about you; or none of the above.  But I do know that it will not get answered here.  For absolute proof, I would need to see, up close and personal, the supporting documents.  I have my FIL's so I know what they look like. Anything short of that would prove nothing to me; and even then I would not bet hard cash on the authenticity. Is there some online database of such things?
Contractor Added Nov 20, 2013 - 11:39am
"A few of the medals authorized the Valor Device include the Legion of Merit Medal, Bronze Star Medal, the various service-specific Commendation Medals, Air Medal, some service-specific Achievement Medals, and certain other unit awards."
"Victor" is the military V and my bad on the "Victory" as opposed to "Victor" end of it.
Steve Borsher Added Nov 20, 2013 - 11:48am
"What's in a name?"  Obviously, enough to start a thinly based argument.
Contractor Added Nov 20, 2013 - 11:54am
Steve - ""What's in a name?"  Obviously, enough to start a thinly based argument."
I think it is as Keith is right on point. It's not "Victory" ... it's Victor and it stands for Valor.
Contractor Added Nov 20, 2013 - 11:59am
@ Keith - "Someone who was really awarded a valor award, would not mislabel the award on his profile."
Checked my profile on a couple other sites ... Bronze Star with "V" device ... same on my resume which I send attached to a Cover Letter along with my DD214 for Vet hiring preferece.
As for "ego" ... I gave my then young Son all my stuff, including military, when his Mother and I divorced. I kept none of it and he still wears my Field Jacket when camping.
If the "Victory" versus "Victor" thing is the sum of your argument accusing me of being a liar, Keith, then I accept the blame as it was by bad.
If not being awarded a Bronze Star with "V" device is your assertion, then I'll appeal to the site owner and let her make the decision. JPEG won't attach to my email right now but it will some time today and I'll go with it. Your call.
Steve Borsher Added Nov 20, 2013 - 12:46pm
Yes, I have seen it referred ti as Victor(y) and/or Valor in a number of places; but the military description, as supplied by Keith, says only "V". So, it would seem that a full word description is at the sole discretion of the holder of it. I would have chosen Valor, because that is a more powerful word to me; and dies not depend on there having been a Victory.
Contractor Added Nov 20, 2013 - 12:50pm
@ Steve - My bad, simple as that and it's right everywhere else ... maybe I should start taking Gingko.
@ Steve - "ust the difference between a hero and someone trying to steal honor from real heroes."
Which is precisely what you are attempting to do. Never reluctant to try to bring down those above you, eh? Wonder how that squares with "personal integrity"? 
Steve Borsher Added Nov 20, 2013 - 1:24pm
As I said before I am just trying to cool things down; don;t ask me why.  I am not siding with FP, just point out my observations along the way.  I neither agree nor disagree with either of you. That would only occur given the irrefutable proof I mentioned above. You reading things into what I say does indicate to me, however, that you are taking the more extreme position; as I am completely neutral.  You will now when I am against you, as I will start to make fun of you; as I have done previously.  I don't hold grudges, and I don't carry insults from one discussion to another; well, maybe once in a while. FP and I had a serious argument early on, but we got over it. That does not me we got married, however. We sill disagree on things; but civilly, which is always my preferred method. 
As far as the name, I did not see in print, officially, anywhere that V stood for any word.  In the links I sent, and elsewhere, I saw all descriptions.  I don't care any more than that.  If you want to continue with FP to the "truth" then you need to see his certificates. Arguing about the verbal description will get you nowhere. Maybe FP showed something about himself, or maybe he just typed that into in his profile because he never "knew" what it stood for exactly.  Maybe he preferred Victory to Valor. Really, at this point, who the fuck cares; except you.
Contractor Added Nov 20, 2013 - 1:57pm
 @ Keith - "Perhaps the revelation that ForcePro is a fraud will make others think twice about his opinions so they will not fall for his line of crap."
And when you are proved wrong I will dog you out so your credibility is on par with your integrity ... -0-. 
Since I've admitted that I put the wrong word in there's no mileage their for you. 
If I was that concerned about it I would have changed my profile as soon as you mentioned it. Note: I am not worried in the least as my DD214 stands as is and can be verified.
Rip away, Keith, I have shots of all your comments in this matter and I'm going to make sure they appear in many places. 
Contractor Added Nov 20, 2013 - 2:00pm
Again, Keith, it's Alpha, Bravo ... Victor.
20 years and never earned anything close to a Bronze Star ... figures.
Contractor Added Nov 20, 2013 - 2:06pm
By the way, Keith, it's my award, my medal, I'm no longer in the Army, and I'll call it what I damned well pleased. It still comes down to the same thing whether you like it or not, I have one, duly awarded, and you have ... some crap medals everyone gets for just showing up, which was mandatory at that.
Steve Borsher Added Nov 20, 2013 - 2:37pm
And not to repeat myself, but the SCrOTUS made your reasons moot. People do it all the time, and the SCrOTUS fully sanctions it.  Maybe you need to try a new country.  This one treats their soldiers like shit anyway. Remember how they sent our boys into Afghanistan with only their dicks for weapons?
Contractor Added Nov 20, 2013 - 3:15pm
Well, to me it is a Vet pride thing. Since Keith has called me a liar with regard to my service to country award I will smoke him like a cheap cigar.
It's difficult to explain, however, as a Contractor I kept a copy of DD214 on me in a plastic sandwich bag at all times. Keith's correct in that many former soldiers (as opposed to Vets) just make up crazy shit about how wonderful they were. I was always quick to break out my DD214 and say "Let's compare."  The infinite vast majority just kind of went quiet and suddenly had more important things to do.
@ Steve - "Maybe you need to try a new country.  This one treats their soldiers like shit anyway."
Steve, with regard to today, we all volunteered. I have never volunteered and then stood around expecting recognition. For those conscripted and then starred down in the big show ... sure, they DESERVE recognition and appraise. Those of us that volunteered deserve NOTHING. Which is a good thing since that's what we get.
The A-16 series are all pieces of shit that jam as a matter of course. The M4 Carbine is also a piece of shit that jams all the time ... especially when exposed to sand (yeah). At least my dick works most of the time :)
Steve Borsher Added Nov 20, 2013 - 3:28pm
But a little armor always helps. The Humvees initially sent to Afghanistan were made by Matchbox. Eight years of minimal war under Clinton, leading to the false sense of peace and security,  fueled 911.  I read the newspapers; and through the newspapers. The national disgrace that was Walter Reed Hospital was primarily the basis for my shit rant; but their are plenty of examples beyond that, a recent one being the body returns halted by the shutdown, as well as the death benefit payments.  It may be a volunteer army, but there are plenty of promises to be kept.  0care is just another in a neverending string of broken government promises.
Contractor Added Nov 20, 2013 - 4:14pm
In Desert Shield/Storm we used sandbags ... how's that for high tech?
Keith - Steve,   The "V" device is not known as the "Victory" device anywhere.
Wrong. WWI.
@ Keith - Service members are not authorized to just change the name of their awards. 
ETS'd in '94. I'm really enjoying this ... a pogue never fired shot one getting all blue in the face over something that's completely out of his experiences ... too funny, "observer".
Steve Borsher Added Nov 20, 2013 - 4:22pm
And WWII. So those vets may still call it that. Of course, there hasn't been a clear victory since then; so it would be an oxymoronic misnomer.
Contractor Added Nov 20, 2013 - 4:49pm
Of we kicked the crap out of Iraq, twice. Desert Shield/Storm was an awesome display by the Air Force. A10s turned their tanks into ready made coffins and did so with ease.
The 82nd Abn Engineers just tore up Iraq's desert fortifications and Mech Inf rolled right over top of Iraqi soldiers ... literally burying them in place.
SCUDs were largely ineffective ... Patriot Batteries rocked although I once read a Congressional report that concluded no SCUDs were destroyed by Patriots. Funny, I have a photo of a SCUD being reduced to scrap directly overhead where I was standing. Photos weren't authorized so I never pushed it.
The "Mother of all wars" was a Mother all right ... and Saddam probably wished he was an orphan many time.
Contractor Added Nov 20, 2013 - 5:53pm
@ Keith - "Steve,   The "V" device is not known as the "Victory" device anywhere."
Keith's a liar ... here's proof.
Thanks for trashing your credibility, Keith, I couldn't have done it without you.
Contractor Added Nov 20, 2013 - 5:53pm
Oh, almost forgot, great use of bold italics to emphasize your lie.
Contractor Added Nov 21, 2013 - 8:31am
@ Dovell - "Weight loss is not impossible. A friend of mine a decade ago was nearly 330 lbs. Then 300lbs and is now 220lbs and getting to be even less. He's walking where he lives as where he was there was a lack of sidewalks. I have no doubt he will continue to lose weight."
Excellent example and right on point. It's not impossible, it simply requires a change in life style.
Contractor Added Nov 21, 2013 - 9:16am
@ Keith - More LIES by Keith: "I suppose it’s possible that you are a contractor for a company similar to the now defunct Blackwater – those types of companies do not really seem to have standards."
Quite the contrary. Armed DoD Contractors are held to standards far higher than those imposed by the US Army.
All anyone has to do is go on line and read the different criteria for themselves. Typically, a Contractor must have documented and verifiable combat experience of a least one year and hold a Combat Arms MOS. Not required for admission into the military.
A Contractor must be able to pass the Army PFT, qualify with weapons, and be vetted, just for consideration. Nothing of the sort for entering the military.
Then, a Contractor must pass the hiring entities Contractor qualification course which is in person attendance and typically 2 - 4 weeks in duration. Nothing like it in the military ... just sign the contract.
A Contractor must be able to obtain and maintain a Secret Security Clearance as well. For admission into the Army it's not a requirement for many MOSs.
Then, once in country a Contractor must pass the hiring entity's in country certification school which is usually 30 days in length ... 90% and above on all tests which are a combination of pen/paper and performance based measures, e.g., demonstrating mastery of a job specific action. No such standard in place for the military.
A Contractor must have a NACI in place 
shortly after coming onto contract. Not required in the Army.
Finally, a Contractor is required to re-certify every 12 months which means the testing is conducted all over again. In the US military once you graduate from your MOS producing school that's it. You test for proficiency annually, but your position isn't terminated if you reflect poorly on it.
Weapons qualification in the Army is conducted once a year and you don't lose your job if you do poorly on it. Contractor's frequently are required to qualify every 4 - 5 months and the ranges are often times just make shift without the conveniences of an Army range. The qualification tables for Contractors are often more complex and demanding than those of the Army and the acceptable standard for qualifying above that of the military. Fail to qualify and you are immediately terminated from contract.
So, once again, Keith LIES and expects people to just accept his word on matters. I note, Keith has never been a US DoD Contractor and was, as usual, talking out his ass, a.k.a., LYING.
Steve Borsher Added Jan 3, 2014 - 8:24am
"First off if smoking bothers you then stay away from me because I will blow my smoke in your direction simply because it irritates you and amuses me." I like your attitude, but maybe you can explain to me why you still smoke. There seems to be a big backlash against the government telling US what to do; so much so that people will refuse to do what would be beneficial to them.
I had a recent discussion with someone about the demise of incandescent bulbs.  A year ago I bought a case of 100 watt ones, in advance of their demise.  But then I started to look into the CFL and LED replacements, and have now replaced almost all my incandescent, even jumping through hoops to get them to match incandescent color.  But the electricity cost savings has been significant; and even more important now that our rates have just gone up 12%.
So, with the obvious health effects, why do you still smoke?
Steve Borsher Added Jan 3, 2014 - 4:59pm
I have spent a year experimenting with them.  What you say was true a year ago, but no universally now.  I have recently bought a number of deeply discounted LED and CFL replacements from National Grid, and am completely satisfied with most now; but not out of the box. I just wrote a note to them asking if I could return some of them.
A year ago, I replaced all the 100W bulbs in my unfinished basement with CFLs. They are all different colors, but I don't care.  Some turn on fast, some not so fast, but they are all fairly bright by the time I get down there. All the ones I have bought in the past 3 months are all instant on; except the outside floods, which take close to 5 minutes to reach useful brightness.  And, yes, we were in the house before we could see. After testing a couple different types I bought new halogen ones, for about a 30% savings. 
After much experimenting, we settled on 2700K as the best color to match that of legacy incandescents.  All CFL types are now available come in that color. I am actually replacing several from over the yeasr with the new color and more appropriate wattage. Even the 3 way CFLs match incandescent now.  My wife is also very sensitive to flourescent flicker, and the latest CFLs don't seem to have any.
The LED color os a problem.  It's much cooler. So, again after some experimentation, I bought 1/2 orange filter gels to cover those bulbs.  I replaced all the indoor recessed spots with them, and now I am replacing the recessed well with glass lense overlays to hid the filters. Yes, it has been a labor of love, but all I have spent on bulbs and such will be paid for in under 2 years.
Robin the red breasted songster Added Jan 6, 2014 - 12:41pm
I question the accepted logic behind "low energy" light bulbs.
First I would like to know whether any comparisons have been done about the amount of energy / environment / resource damage required to make these bulbs versus traditional types.
Second:  In many cases you have to wait for the light to get bright enough to do what you want to do.  This both means that you have the light on for longer and that you may be expending more energy on other things whilst you wait
Third:  Traditional bulbs may produce more heat than light... the so called "wasted" energy.  But is it really wasted.  Most lights are needed most of the time when it is dark.  It is dark most often in the winter... when it is also cold.  So the "wasted" heat actually contributes to warming the house.  So what percentage is truly "wasted"?
Steve Borsher Added Jan 6, 2014 - 1:38pm
"This both means that you have the light on for longer and that you may be expending more energy on other things whilst you wait." Kind of the way I feel about people who accelerate their car slowly.
"So the "wasted" heat actually contributes to warming the house" I have CFLs in my office, and I heat it with my desktop PC.  Lately, this winter, it is 66 when I get in there, and 70 within a few minutes.
For better or worse, I now have CFLs and LEDs everywhere but where they are not esthetically pleasing, or do not come on instantly.
Pamalien TW Added Jan 7, 2014 - 11:54am
Fair points of course you fail to address the readily available crap and I won't be happy until we are living in the Demolition Man film's Taco Bell Utopia. That said, I destroyed a friendship with a morbidly obese girl recently. Not because she is obese but, because she may be the laziest human being I have ever met. She won't even take her large, high energy dogs out for a walk; she works from home and they are lucky to get out of their crates, of course they just defalcate everywhere immediately upon being let out.... According to her, she tried walking once and it took her 2 hours to get a mile so, she gave up and got a ride home. With that introduction, she announced she is trying to get pregnant and I couldn't take it anymore.
Steve Borsher Added Jan 7, 2014 - 1:22pm
Yet another of 0bama's beneficiaries.
Pamalien TW Added Jan 7, 2014 - 1:26pm
And she's white. Go figure.
Steve Borsher Added Jan 7, 2014 - 1:58pm
Nothing to figure. Sloths come in all shapes, sizes, races, creeds, and colors; that's sloth, as in one of the 7 deadly sins.
Steve Borsher Added Jan 7, 2014 - 7:45pm
People who live alone and don't cook eat out. And of that group, the low end of the financial spectrum eats cheap.  How many people is that? Maybe 1/5 of the population: 65 million people? Don't you wish you owned a burger joint?  When I lived alone and worked all the time, I ate at Wendy's every night around 10.  Fortunately, they had baked potatoes with broccoli. That was a healthier break from pizza; which isn't all that bad anyway, depending on the toppings and the amount.
Pamalien TW Added Jan 13, 2014 - 2:55pm
Or they could just buy canned, frozen, raw or dried vegetables and beans and make an effort to cook. I also brave the discount meats with discernment from time to time. Coupons are cool. My grocery bill for 2 people usually hovers about $200 a month or less... I used to take advantage of group buy groceries from "angel foods" or something... It shut down a couple of years ago and I supplemented with food banks when the government ruled an unemployed student doesn't need to eat as badly as an unemployed college graduate... There are options to eat cheaply and healthfully. It just takes effort. Almost as much effort as getting a job that pays enough to afford your own damn food...
Steve Borsher Added Jan 13, 2014 - 3:07pm
Come do our food shopping.  Even if I paid you to do it I would save money. I go in and out of using coupons, even though I figure we are overpaying if we don't; lately they haven't been very rewarding.  Time was you could get $1 off one item with it being tripled by the supermarket.  Those days being gone is another form of inflation.