Bill Maher and the "N-word" Debacle


There has been a rather ridiculous argument as of late for firing Bill Maher for his recent use of the "n-word" on his HBO television show. I say ridiculous because it stinks of hypocrisy in the light of the endless acceptance of use of said word by black rappers in daily life. As I see it either we can completely reject the use of the word or we can accept that assholes are going to keep using it regardless of whether or not they are black or white. It's really as simple as that.


For the record I am no fan of Bill Maher. I once was, but not after his idiotic endorsement of the neoliberal warmonger psychopath Hillary Clinton. I believe it is everyone's individual right to endorse and vote for whomever without fear or reprisal. However Mr. Maher used the pulpit of his television show to castigate everyone who chose to disagree with him. Now that the election is over it's obvious that Bill Maher was seriously wrong in his endorsement and even more so in his idioticy for attacking others who didn't choose the greatest of all evils by voting for Hillary Clinton.


I say that because of the endless Russophobic McCarthyism that has gripped the nation, all the byproduct of the Clinton loss. Clinton, being the warmonger that she is would had surely plunged us into an insane unwinnable war with Russia that would have turned nuclear and resulted in the end of civilization and brought about human extinction. Clearly nothing Trump has done could be said to equal such a evil outcome.


Many in politics and the military warned of just such an outcome should Clinton had been elected. The fact that she couldn't open her mouth without scapegoating Russia (for any and everything) before the election, and now the endless Russian Hysteria post election (some surely butt-hurt Clintonites seeking revenge, but a lot is the ongoing process of pushing us to war with Russia via the same Deep State agencys that were backing Clinton) certainly drives home the seriousness of the danger that a Hillary Clinton presidentcy would have produced. So in backing this monster Maher lost me as a supporter. I only say here that on this he should not be fired because my hypocrisy only goes so far. If Maher is to be fired let it be for something of consequence not something that small minded bigoted no talent scum get away with using constantly.


So yes, let's condemn Maher. Then let's likewise condemn the endless parade of hypocrite morons who belittle and degrade us fellow members of the black race by their own inexcusable use of the damnable word. Or until we are willing to do the latter, let's not have the hypocrisy to insist on the former. Personally, as a bisexual black woman I find a LOT more to be offended by in rap "music" overall than by the stupidity of Bill Maher.


Like Oprah has said it's time to retire permanently this ugly word from all our collective vocabulary. And by all, I, like Oprah do mean ALL of us. But until that happens we should have to endure the free speech of idiots like Maher as much as we may dislike it, because we continue to make hypocritical excuses for our own to do the same.


Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 5, 2017 - 6:37pm
Remember the Rule of Three applies (as well as Autumn's rules of course). 
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 5, 2017 - 6:38pm
Note I posted this on Medium originally as a reply to someone who said Maher was unforgivable. 
Leroy Added Jun 5, 2017 - 7:16pm
It's illogical to be offended by the word and not be offended by "black."  They literally mean the same thing.   Be it as it may, people of color are offended by it, and I respect the wishes not to use the word.  I'm ok if people of color use the word for themselves.  It is not uncommon for people to wear such as a badge of honor.  It's much like the JMC here calling me a cowboy as an insult to Americans.  I changed my avatar to that of a cowboy as a badge of honor.  So, I say it is acceptable use by people of color.
I know a young lady from South Africa who is offended to be called "black."  She wants to be called "colored".  We used to refer to blacks as colored.  We did it out of politeness.  But, eventually, it became offensive, for some strange reason.  I was confused as a kid.  Some wanted to be called "colored" while others wanted to be called "black."  It really doesn't matter to me what people want to be called.  If they are offended by a term, just let me know.  For example, I mean no offense by calling someone a Canuck.  Some people may find it offensive.  Calling someone a "yank" down South is not polite, but I understand and am not offended when Europeans refer to Americans as "Yanks."
Concerning Bill Maher, I don't care what happens to him.  He was wrong.  He was stupid.  What's new?  The liberals seem to be eating their own lately.  Maybe it is a good sign that the PC era will end soon.  If there is any justice, he will be fired, like the others before him.
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 5, 2017 - 7:31pm
Most black people are offended by that word, UNLESS it's another black person using it. I call bullshit. Either it's wrong to use by all, or alright to use by all. No double-standards. I personally find it crude and objectionable because it demeans and infers one is, or should be a slave because of their race. I translate it "race-slave" if I'm forced to refer to it beyond a sentence or two. 
As for Maher it's not like he was crazy enough to simulate carrying around the severed head of the President like some psycho... 
Phil Greenough Added Jun 5, 2017 - 7:37pm
What's the rule of three?
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 5, 2017 - 7:41pm
The Rule of Three are the three rules I enforce in addition to Autumn's rules. I wrote an article about it which you can reference in my Writer's Beat profile. 
Phil Greenough Added Jun 5, 2017 - 7:45pm
If you're not going to let me know what these rules are you can be sure I won't be offering you a comment.  Actually, even if I knew what the rules were, I still prefer commenting where there are no extra/unnecessary rules. 
Leroy Added Jun 5, 2017 - 8:02pm
The top two rules are:
1. Don't say anything that can be construed to be anti-Russian.
2. Don't say anything against climate change.
I fogot the third.
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 5, 2017 - 8:21pm
Very funny Leroy. 
And very rude not to mention lazy Phil! 
For the record the rules are 
1. No slander 
2. No threats 
3. No fake news 
Michael B. Added Jun 5, 2017 - 8:41pm
One time back in 2000 or 2001, I was smoking pot with some others behind an art gallery in LA when I saw Bill Maher and a small entourage of his lackeys walk by. I recall him being very bizarre-looking, with a very large head on a short and scrawny little body, kind of like a Lookie-Lou. I've never really cared for him too much; I know someone who watches his show religiously who used to try to cajole me into watching it, but I like political talk shows about as much as I like Mexican soap operas or Armenian news. Anyway, I think Mr. Maher got a little too full of himself, and was happy to see his chops get busted over it, but as much as I dislike him, I didn't think it was serious enough for his dismissal.
Tubularsock Added Jun 5, 2017 - 9:11pm
Negro, Nigger, Nigga, Tubularsock hates all three of these words personally. Don’t use them. The use by others only tells Tubularsock just how fucked up the user happens to be.
And Tubularsock does agree with you Jenifer about Maher but I left him when he closed up to the information about 9/11 and then when I heard his position on Killery, well that sealed the deal.
But what gets Tubularsock even more is, AS USUAL, the hypocrisy. What nerve and total bull shit!
A guy like Chance The Rapper calls for Maher to be fired while his songs run with shit like:

“Them niggas pissed, need potty training
They movement shit, that's a potty train
She ain't left yet, but she probably came”
Milly rockin', scoopin' all the blessings out my lap
Bitch I know you tried to cheat, you shoulda never took a nap, hey
Fuck wrong with you? What you were thinkin'?
Fuck you thought it was?
You talk that talk that make a lame ass nigga fall in love
This guy is going to lecture us with tweets about firing Maher for language use?
And fucking Orange Tweet “grab’em by the pussy” Trump calls for Maher to be fired?
Of course some of Donnie’s anger may have been left over from Maher’s joke back in 2013 ..... that Trump was the product of his mother “having sex with an orangutan”.
Some jokes are more true than funny.
Anyway, with all the killings this nation does around the world we are presented this as “news”. FUCK IT!
George N Romey Added Jun 5, 2017 - 9:54pm
Bill Mahr by nature is a "shock jock."  He is sarcastic (or tries to be) to get his point across and has at times landed himself in hot water. I'm no real fan of the man, he is nothing more than a mouthpiece for the HRC/Obama wing of the Democratic Party.  However, this is a lot of much to do about nothing (or a sarcastic tv comedian with an HBO television show.)  Surely there are more important things to worry about.
Tubularsock Added Jun 5, 2017 - 10:22pm
George, Tubularsock is with you 100%. These diversions are orchestrated and the music sucks!
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 6, 2017 - 4:18am
Thanks for the comments all. Well except Phil, I'm glad his lazy, rude ass hit the bricks for something more his intellectual level. Like reality TV perhaps. 
Tubularsock I think the chances I will ever listen to the mindless bigoted trash of Chance the Rapper are slim and none. Slim only if some idiot has it blasting from his car or the like and I can't avoid it. Good examples though of the bad and ugly complete with Mr. "Rapper" 's disgraceful treatment of women ("bitch"). Perfectly illustrates why I said rap is largely more offensive than some comic hack. 
And you are right George, this is not news, but it is what people are talking about and Billy asked me previously to do an article on my view of the N-word. I never really had the inspiration, until now. 
Mircea Negres Added Jun 6, 2017 - 4:23am
Nice post, Jenifer. We've got a similar problem in South Africa, after former Democratic Alliance and current Western Cape province leader (equivalent to a state governor, I guess) Helen Zille tweeted colonialism wasn't all bad, or something like that. People got outraged. As a result, she's currently subject of a DA disciplinary hearing and was sort of suspended (first they said she was suspended, then they said she wasn't) from the party.
However, I still can't wrap my mind around how easily Americans seem to be influenced by the media, that it can work in a country with some of the biggest libraries and best universities in the world. Heck, you guys invented the internet, and should be at the forefront of leading the world into the light of knowledge and wisdom instead of still banging on about such trivial nonsense! From what I've seen, and it wasn't much, seems to me Bill Maher tried to sound funky/folksy/"with it" and screwed up. Well, there's the NAACP (among other organizations) and they can sue him for hate speech or some such- what are they waiting for, Kwanzaa?
Leroy, the reason that South African lady calls herself "Coloured" (with a capital "C" and a "U" after the second "O") is because she is part of a group of predominantly Afrikaans speakers which resulted from a mix of whites, Khoi San, black and Asian stock. That group is called "Coloured" in South Africa, but "colored" means something else in the U.S., so I understand your confusion. This was something I discussed in a post called "The Long Story Part 2", if memory serves, and reading it will clarify the issue. If not, there's a pretty good explanation on Wikipedia. As a photographic explanation, look for images of Tammy Anne Fortuin, a Coloured South African model. 
Phil Greenough Added Jun 6, 2017 - 6:05am
What's the difference between fake news and news you disagree with?
Stone-Eater Added Jun 6, 2017 - 6:10am
Most black people are offended by that word, UNLESS it's another black person using it. I call bullshit. Either it's wrong to use by all, or alright to use by all.
I like to use the word nigger or black in discussions (in German mostly), wait for the reaction of the opposite and then show them a pic of my wife. Great fun :-)
You're right.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 6, 2017 - 6:12am
I still can't wrap my mind around how easily Americans seem to be influenced by the media, that it can work in a country with some of the biggest libraries and best universities in the world. Heck, you guys invented the internet, and should be at the forefront of leading the world into the light of knowledge and wisdom instead of still banging on about such trivial nonsense!
Comment of the day. Europe scratches head about that too.
George N Romey Added Jun 6, 2017 - 6:15am
We the US are also number one at creating crap and vulgar culture, entertainment based upon stupidity and having the elites divide the population while they steal all of the loot.
Dino Manalis Added Jun 6, 2017 - 8:03am
Nobody should say the N word, white or black, it's wrong and racist!
Leroy Added Jun 6, 2017 - 8:42am
Thanks for the education, Mircea.  Folks around here wouldn't be able to identify the race of Tammy Anne Fortuin.  They MIGHT recognize that she was not white or assume she was Hispanic like some assume for my wife.  In my example, her skin tone and facial features were no different from the local population, but she didn't want to be confused with them.  She accused those who referred to her as "black" as being racist.  She seemed to be a bit racist herself not wanting anything to do with black men.  My point is that it is hard to please everyone.  Sometimes we go out of our way not to be offensive but end up doing it anyway.  She was a very pretty young lady, but the US diet wasn't kind to her.  She ultimately became disillusioned with the US and went back to South Africa.
The first time my wife came to the US, we were in the airport.  She used a term that was a direct translation from her language.  She called the ubiquitous black waitress, "Little girl" to get her attention.  I really didn't know myself whether or not it was offensive, but I cringed.  You never refer to a black male as a boy.  That is worst than using the N word.  But, girls like to be call ladies and ladies like to be called girls.
The Objective Observer Added Jun 6, 2017 - 9:02am
I agree that it needs to be either an OK word or not an OK word. Not this, well sometimes its OK if black people say it. You know what? That's racist. I wrote an article about this very topic a loooong time ago. I might have to dig it up...
The Objective Observer Added Jun 6, 2017 - 9:04am
Also, I'm no fan of Bill Maher, the guy is a tool, but I don't agree with him being fired over this. I think it is just racism on display yet again.
Leroy Added Jun 6, 2017 - 9:09am
I was shocked when I went to my nephews webpage.  He had on there, "Here's a shout out to all my n@**a's out there!"  He assured me that it wasn't racist and was perfectly acceptable and I was behind the times.  It likely comes from rap culture.  Is it okay in a certain context, like emulating a rapster?
Skip Stein Added Jun 6, 2017 - 9:55am
When I was growing up, I was always taught that "Sticks and Stones will break my bones but words can never hurt me!"  This sound advice has been long lost in the platitudes and idiocy of 'political correctness' where words are worse than actions!
We see horrid murderous happenings almost daily, yet the lame-stream press are more concerned about what the tragedy is called and the assailants named more than the innocent victims slaughtered by insane madmen from the savage cult of islam.
I grew up near Detroit and the term 'nigger' was quite common.  The history of the word is usually lost and Huck Finn's best friend was 'nigger Jim'.  Go figure.
Words mean things but these meanings change over time.  The current obsession with political correct usage of simple words borders on insanity.  They are only words; assemblies of the alphabet that tomorrow will mean something different.
Ian Thorpe Added Jun 6, 2017 - 12:15pm
Is 'fried chicken' still considered offensive? I've had several bollockings for talking about 'fried chicken' when I was actually talking about fried chicken, i.e. breast of chicken beaten flat, marinaded in wine, oil and herbs and pan fried, or wrapped in Parma ham, sauted and served with a white wine, cream and coriander sauce. I've also been told we should never discriminate, because discrimination is racist. But faced with a decision I'd always discriminate in favour of either above ways of cooking chicken over KFC.
Political correctness is really getting too silly.
Mircea Negres Added Jun 6, 2017 - 12:38pm
Leroy, you're welcome. I hope it helped explain the issue. Anyhow, perhaps she translated directly the Afrikaans "meisie kind", which literally means "girl child". It might have been sort of appropriate in Afrikaans and South Africa when addressing someone younger than her, but in English it comes out as something else... One patronising way some white South Africans refer to their male and female black Africans is "boy" and "girl", as in "garden boy" and/or "tea girl". I cringe big time when I hear it, because more often than not they refer to people older than they are, and it's insulting (as well as racist) to say the least.
Opes Added Jun 6, 2017 - 12:55pm
Bill Maher is full of himself in so many ways, but is also evilly witty.  He is not a News show, just comedy posing as morally valuable to some people.
The profession of Journalism has suffered big-time lately.  The latest exposed CNN staged News event is just one of many examples of the media posturing a news worthy event as spontaneous, when it was actually staged in part or fully.
Billy Roper Added Jun 6, 2017 - 1:12pm
Bill Maher is the most recent of Jews to exploit POC, stretching all the way back to the days when they dominated the slave trade.
Mike Haluska Added Jun 6, 2017 - 2:36pm
Opes - I disagree with your comment:
"Bill Maher is full of himself in so many ways, but is also evilly witty"
I would say that a staff of 20 full time comedy writers and researchers with a month to prepare for conservative guests/topics may appear to make Bill Maher "witty" in front of a sycophant audience of dunderhead liberals.
Micahel Dolan Added Jun 6, 2017 - 4:18pm
Lets stop exaggerating about the road blocks to success  in this country and start inculcating our citizens with confidence and the tools to succeed.
Liberals need to stop preaching class and racial hatred. They need to quit promoting the politics and hatred and alienation. In this melting pot, all Americans can achieve if we can just overcome this nagging  obsession with skin colors and be mindful of thr truism that all human beings are equal in the eyes of God
Isaiah,  many blacks are slaves today, Slaves of the Liberal plantaion that keeps them for a vote. 
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 6, 2017 - 5:11pm
Like Objective Observer said, either a word is OK for all to use or none. Otherwise it's hypocrisy, that was my point. There is no place for double-standards. 
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 6, 2017 - 5:16pm
Phil you still here? I thought you would have gotten bored by now? Incidentally the answer to your question about Fake News was in the article you were too lazy to look up and read. See why I referred you to it now and why being lazy is a poor excuse? 
For those on Phil's level fake news is not news one disagrees with it's "news" that makes false claims it can't prove and presents said claims as fact when they are anything but. Obvious really. 
John Minehan Added Jun 6, 2017 - 7:23pm
Not your tradition, JF, but a nice statement of something all traditiions share: "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."

Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 6, 2017 - 7:26pm
The Torah is definitely not my tradition. It fact it is the tradition of the false "god" the Demiurge. 
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 6, 2017 - 7:28pm
For the record I follow the principles of Maat, they predate the Torah and all Western philosophy. 
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 6, 2017 - 7:36pm
Here is a link to what I believe, the 42 Principles of Maat
John Minehan Added Jun 6, 2017 - 7:44pm
All traditions seems to have what Hillel said or your  "I have not done that which is abominable," as a core value.  Maher was wrong for not considering that.
The Objective Observer Added Jun 6, 2017 - 9:51pm
Isn't it the very definition of racism to determine that something is OK or not OK based solely on the color of one's skin?
John Minehan Added Jun 6, 2017 - 9:55pm
Good general rule: avoid racial slurs of any kind.  
wsucram15 Added Jun 6, 2017 - 9:58pm
You know..this is an interesting conversation.  For the record, people should not be referred to by a slang word based on its historical use towards a specific culture.  Now this goes for all people, white people, black people (who ARE often offended by being called black), Asian people, Latinos and lets say it together...women.
Do you know what you call someone different from you?  By their NAME...if you dont know it, recognize them as a person equal to yourself and think " how would I want to be treated in this situation"?  Then proceed, if you treat people how you want to be treated, this would be a better place.
On the Bill Maher comment...I watch him, sometimes he is funny,  Sometimes he isnt.  This was one of those times he was a complete ass.  But I have Ice Tea to look forward to opposing him on this debate.  It should be interesting.   Its difficult for me to see the comments on here giving Maher a hard time for a screw up, in doing what they themselves do either directly or indirectly.  Writers have a great deal of power and many abuse it...just like Maher did for a laugh.
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 6, 2017 - 11:31pm
Objective Observer writes "Isn't it the very definition of racism to determine that something is OK or not OK based solely on the color of one's skin?" 
I completely agree. 
Michael B. Added Jun 6, 2017 - 11:53pm
A bit of dialog from the movie Clerks II:
Randal Graves: Well, I still don't think that porch monkey should be considered a racial term. I've always used it to describe lazy people, not lazy black people. I think if we really tried, we could take back porch monkey and save it.
Dante Hicks: [fed up] It can't be saved, Randal. The sole purpose for its creation, the only reason it exists in the first place, is to disparage an entire race. And even if it could be saved, you couldn't save it because you're not black!
Randal Graves: Well, listen to you—telling me I can't do something because of the color of my skin. You're the racist, man!
I couldn't agree more, lol.
Minister Peaceful Poet Added Jun 7, 2017 - 5:47am
I don't like Bill either, but I agree, if black people can call themselves and each other nigger, than so can we. If its ok for them, then its ok for us. 
Billy Roper Added Jun 7, 2017 - 9:18am
I think it's funny that some Jews, when obfuscating the issue, try to deny that Maher is Jewish.
Opes Added Jun 7, 2017 - 9:51am
Censorship of words are in the eye-of-the-beholder.  Words are power and are powerful!
Words in context is a standard, and words out of context is another standard, but either way, people want to control what other people are allowed to say.  Two or more standards makes it a double standard, tri-standard, etc. and so on, but so what?  People are upset, that's the so what.  Hate speech is a thing that in some places in this world can get you locked up legally, but beyond the law can get you hurt or killed.
Hollering 'Fire' in the crowded theater when there is no fire is banned because people could get killed in a stampede.  That is context.
Where does this lead?  The way people think, and what people say does have consequences of hurt feelings as well as disastrous events that at times cause wars.  Misunderstandings happen just as the intentional jab.  Many application form ask for the color of people to be reported as an identifier, the terms used are considered racist to some people.
We cannot please everyone.
Opes Added Jun 7, 2017 - 10:06am
p.s. the latest behavior of Bill Maher is News, and it is News worthy, it is real News because it did happen, and it is generally known/reported within the true context of his show.  It is in bad taste to a majority of people in the U.S. it seems, but do we really know that the majority feel that way? 
It would be Fake News if it is reported that a majority of people didn't care about it when in fact they did.
Bill Kamps Added Jun 7, 2017 - 11:16am
Then there was the word that LBJ loved to used, nigra, which was supposed to be negro said with a southern accent, lol.  As if....
mark henry smith Added Jun 7, 2017 - 5:00pm
A professor at Villanova University used the word niggardly in a class and was reported by a black student for using a racially offensive term.
Our greatest problem in this country isn't political correctness, it's stupidity.
So here goes.
Why all of the talk about Russians messin' with our elections when the Israelis have been doing it for like fuckin' ever. Sorry Jews.
Did you know that the Israelis were prepared to detonate a nuclear bomb in Egypt if they thought they were losing the 1967 war? Their strategy was to create fear and if that didn't work then fuck everybody.
Hip hop in other countries is so much smarter, but the man here in the US uses racial biases to keep wealth disparity from being the main issue. So of course Bill Mahrs gets more attention than an IS bombing in Iran.
Don't tell me how we can make our country less offensive. We can't. Everything about the US is offensive to somebody, our military, our corporate structure, our bizarre sexual practices where we allow the most graphic violence to be shown to kids, but not sexual intimacy. No wonder boys treat women as sex objects and women treat men as little boys. It's what were being taught in the marketplace of ideas.
And would Trumpophiles be offended if someone stood up holding a bloodied head of Hillary? I think not. And let's not forget what Trump said about that woman, that she had blood coming out of everywhere.  
Patrick Writes Added Jun 7, 2017 - 9:36pm
Leroy is right. The N word is a corruption of the Spanish word for black. Literally in Spanish black when translated is negro. 
But it has historical baggage, so fine. Maher should be fired but looks like he won't be.
It's par for the course. Strom Thurmond (U.S. Republican Senator for 30+ years, died in 2003) was bad and not allowed to be in the first Bush Administration because he allegedly had "KKK links" in the 1960's. But Robert Byrd (U.S. Democrat Senator for 30+ years during the same era) was good even he was IN the KKK in the 1940's and early 50's. He was a card-carrying KKK member.
Obama wrote a moving portrayal of the man in The Audacity of Hope as if he was some great guy. Double standard maybe? 
It's alright, nothing needs to make sense in Left / Right politics in America, especially with the main stream media being in the bag for the Left. 
William Stockton Added Jun 8, 2017 - 7:39am
Context is everything, especially in language.
So when a white(ish) person uses the n-word, the context is racial dominance.  If a black(ish) person uses it, the context is brotherhood.
The problem with subtle context like this, although very real, is that it becomes very easy to misplace context or completely misunderstand it.  I used to think it was hypocritical for any black person to use the word and think it is ok to do so.  I have changed my stance on this.  
The problem with Maher is that he did not understand this.  How he never did is more interesting about Maher than his actual use of the word even in the context of using about himself.
On the flip side, you have a black culture, having been given the keys to society by the Democratic party, and they are lifted beyond reproach.  Until the black society can be scrutinized as individuals, their actions judged without the context of skin color, white(ish) folk will have to comply with these rules and be judged harshly for their insensitivity and/or ignorance (as is the case with Maher).
Opes Added Jun 8, 2017 - 7:56am
The fact that both Strom Thurmond and Robert Byrd were elected U.S. Senators from the 2 political parties just signifies a background of racial preference and racial disparagement as apolitical.  Neither political party (Dem or GOP) is color-blind, but maybe no one can be.  It all comes down to dominance issues and how we as people tend to treat each other ethically, but that's another long story, that is off topic here.  
Opes Added Jun 8, 2017 - 8:08am
I would venture to say that Maher had no misplaced context nor misunderstanding of it.  Maher uses jokes in trying to break cultural rules quite often that are in bad taste in the view of likely many people.  He tried and failed in the joke.  The consequences are to be dished out by way of public reaction that can possibly effect his future actions.
wsucram15 Added Jun 8, 2017 - 7:00pm
Also in watching the comment, he wasnt referring to anyone else, he was referring to himself in the derogatory.  Which may have made it worse to some people considering his social stance.  However, I do agree with Opes..he has  crossed many social norms  for most of his career..making people very angry the entire time. Mostly those with a religious or spiritual affiliation. He is an atheist, but was raised a catholic, his distaste for religion therefore, easy to understand.
Dont worry..he is going to face Ice Tea on the next episode...should be great.
The Objective Observer Added Jun 8, 2017 - 7:55pm
Jenifer, you inspired me, I dug up my article from almost 15 years ago that has a remarkably similar theme, albeit a bit more provocative.
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 9, 2017 - 12:44am
Glad I was able to inspire you OO, and I'll be sure to check that out tomorrow! 
Opes Added Jun 9, 2017 - 8:43am
From what is being said (including the OO reposted article), it could be fair to conclude it's more complicated than some people want to accept or admit. The easiest is the emotional reaction to the whole thing.  Emotions come easy, but understanding them is not always so simple. Words are loaded with a lot of meanings that vary from person to person for emotional triggers. So much baggage there is. Intentions do matter.
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 10, 2017 - 6:46pm
This is true Opes, but while words may have different meanings for different people, having a common and universal understanding that certain words are just off limits FOR ALL makes for an easy solution. Double-standards and hypocrisy only cause chaos and resentment and is never an answer. If certain members of the black community only understood this they would realize that their racist attitudes are only making things worse for themselves (& the rest of us). 
wsucram15 Added Jun 11, 2017 - 10:13am
I also have to apologize it was Ice Cube...still a great episode.
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 11, 2017 - 11:15am
Well I'm glad it was Cube who I couldn't give a rat's ass about and not T, who's work I enjoy on Law and Order SVU. As I said, these double-standards will just keep all of us in chains. 
Dr. Rupert Green Added Jun 12, 2017 - 11:56am
Nig'er usage is not the same as Black.  Try emphasizing each word three times and see how you feel. Of course, without the historical pedigree of its usage to ground you, Nig'er means nothing to you.
However, the Blacks who were so castigated and the White who used it on them spoke to inferiority and superiority, a power dynamics, and the need to emphasize Blacks' lower place (less than animals) in that relation.
True, no one should be fired for using it if Blacks use it on each other. But its a hate word that must be extinguished and not developed in a new generation of Americans.  Perhaps the sting of the word could be neutralized by making it a legally acceptable word as  weed was legalized to make it taxable and its usage palatable. 
Another word that drew the ire of group of people was "Mongolian Idiot." The groups so described are currently the smartest in the US. The swastika, a sacred African fertility symbol, was made unusable by the horror associated with it. The horror associated with the use of Nig'er was over 500 years long and as horrific as the association with the swastika and the Jewish people. Why then has the outcome been different?
It is important to note in my writings, I use the word Jewish people as opposed to the "Jews." That word can be used as a hate crime.
Whites who were deemed Nig'er lovers could end up at the end of a White lynch mob's rope as the the Blacks who were rounded up with the call, lets go get ourselves a Nig'er.
Everyone despites the Nig'er. The Mexican hawk and spits at the appearance of a Black person. The Dominican speaks Spanish to distinguish that they are not a one. Unprogressive White women latch on to their pocket even at the site of a crawling Nig'er baby. 
But across the board  categorization is unwise because in the times when being a Nig'er lover was a death sentence, a particular White school owner taught Whites by day and Blacks by night.  Whites such as Wilberforce and a certain politician ( I believe he chose to be buried with Blacks) championed for justice on their behalf.
mark henry smith Added Jun 12, 2017 - 2:08pm
Really? Jew is now a hate word? What about cracker?
Man, we're getting so PC it's sickening. Let 'em talk, is what I say. If you want to use the word nigger to refer to someone, do it and be prepared for the consequences. I much prefer people saying what they feel so we have a real sense of where they're coming from. A guy called me a cock-sucker yesterday and since I'm not a cock-sucker, I told him to go F himself. It could have come to blows, but I don't think he's gay either.
And all this does is create room for a new, equally offensive term, which has not hit the radar yet, like Porch Monkey, which I just learned. Can I use that term without being called a racist? What if Bill Mahrs had said, "I'm just a well-paid Porch Monkey?"
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 13, 2017 - 12:20am
I don't think Porch Monkey can be rehabilitated Marko, although one of the guys from the movie Clerks 2 thought it could. As for Jew, I agree, I've never heard of it as an offensive thing, just a basic label. Too much of anything can be bad particularly PC. 
Opes Added Jun 13, 2017 - 10:10am
Jenifer, You said - "...having a common and universal understanding that certain words are just off limits FOR ALL makes for an easy solution."
I would like to see if somehow your thinking could really work, but I'm needing more convincing.  Don't you think that a lot of people logically counter your idea here on who gets to decide for everyone which words are universally off limits?
Just thinking this out further a bit, maybe it is also bad and should be off limits to refer to a group(s)/individual(s) as uncivilized, barbarian, the enemy, deplorable, etc.?
There was a saying that kids were taught long ago that "Sticks and stones can break your bones, but words will never hurt me."  Well, that was a saying for kids that was suppose to teach them not to physically harm someone due to words said, isn't that the moral of that?
That saying we know is not true however, because words can hurt, and words can be the cause of physical reactions.
When you say 'universal', I assume you mean worldwide in ever corner (seen and unseen).  When a word is off limits, it matters greatly what will be done to the violators.  Slips of the tongue included.
Opes Added Jun 13, 2017 - 10:17am
p.s. It is obvious i think to most people that name calling is labeling, describing, characterizing, defining, based on varied characteristics and linguistics that sometimes include the effects from ethnicity, race, gender preference, religion, culture, politics, society, etc.
mark henry smith Added Jun 13, 2017 - 2:04pm
In my mind free speech is the most important constitutional amendment that needs to be protected, even more than guns, because if we're not free to speak our minds our minds are not free to think.
The Supreme Court justices have argued this repeatedly over the years and the old standard was you're free to speak as you like as long as your not speaking to cause a riot. Well how the hell am I supposed to know that before it happens? And if that was true, the jury that didn't convict the officers who beat Rodney King should be arrested.
We are not compelled to know the consequences of our actions in all situations, but we are compelled to accept that our motives speak volumes. I don't know Bill Maher's motives for using the word nigger, but I don't imagine he thought it would get him fired, wait, it didn't, right?
Let's remember George Carlin here and his list of words that you couldn't say on television, words that most people were perfectly comfortable with and which now greet you when any car playing rap cruises by. Let's remember that word control is mind control. Let's encourage people to build their vocabularies so offensive words aren't necessary for their expression, since most offensive words add little or nothing to meaning.
In writing fiction, it's important to be able to use the words that help define the characters and offensive characters will use offensive words, and if we weed out all the offensive words from all of the stories, what will we have?  
Doug Plumb Added Jun 15, 2017 - 6:03am
PC is an avalanche that starts with restrictions on certain words. Its stupid to actually restrict the use of words - and its dangerous. If you are offended then you should just go fuck yourself.
Shane Laing Added Jun 15, 2017 - 6:04am
Porch Monkey, Fried Chicken, could someone enlighten me as I have never heard those terms.
Doug Plumb Added Jun 15, 2017 - 6:05am
I've been thinking about writing another book, the word nigger is a necessity in part of it. (You have to write about 5 before you get any good at it. (I think my Dr Treekenstein may an exception)
Opes Added Jun 15, 2017 - 9:41am
As has been said before, it is a complicated issue.  Who decides/  What is the punishment for violators/ Do slips of the tongue count/ Does artistic liberties count/
Even when the violation rule is towards the incitement of violence or unnecessary stampedes or physical harm and (Facebook bullying) etc. it is complicated.
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 15, 2017 - 11:06pm
Opes, to answer the questions, #1, society at large decides. And society has decided that racist slurs are unacceptable. It just needs to be enforced equally on all. #2 punishment is generally being banned, fired, or otherwise ostracized by the majority of people. #3 No they shouldn't. #4 I would say yes, but it depends if it's taken to far and is really art. Is a rapper's 30th "song" about race-slaves and Bitches "art" or depravity taken to far? I vote the latter. Generally speaking my observation is ignorant thugs lower themselves to using racist slurs. Individuals with nothing worthwhile to offer anyone. 
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 15, 2017 - 11:11pm
Shane, Fried Chicken, it's a wonderful American dish, you got to try it. I know people of pretty much all races enjoy it, nothing racist about it I've ever heard of. Poach Monkeys are lazy black people who allegedly sit around on porches doing nothing. Like the guy from Clerks 2 said I would be good if it was a omniracial term because I've seen plenty of the white variety also. But a lot of people just don't like it. 
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 15, 2017 - 11:15pm
Doug what's stupid is when ignorant thugs can't think of a better insult (or something more "artistic") than a racial slur. I would say they pretty much pushed the envelope with it in Pulp Fiction, although I can accept that as art because it was somewhat entertaining although not entirely tasteful. 
mark henry smith Added Jun 16, 2017 - 4:13pm
In art, if we're really trying to create truth, in writing, if we have a character who takes a shit and we change it to poop so as not to offend anybody, the character is no longer legitimate. The way people use words is integral to their identity and writers know this.
I listen to NPR because I'm listening to folks just like me, educated, willing to debate, not bluster, but I have to say that they have some segments that are about as stupid as anything you've ever heard. Like the black woman today who was talking about being overweight. She's decided that she's not fat and nothing anybody says to her matters. She's tired of being called fat. And then she said that nobody who's not experienced fatness has any right to comment on it. Just as somebody who's never been black has any business assuming that they know what it's like to be black.
Really stupid stuff and the audience applauded like they'd just heard Gandhi speak. I don't think they thought about one thing this women said, they were just applauding her self defiance. Of course a person can know what it's like to be fat by carrying around a heavy backpack for long enough. And a person can know what it's like to be black because they've experienced a similar degree of persecution. I think Christ might have known what it was like to be black, or maybe he was black.
This ridiculous craze that only people have an identity, a racial, or outwardly imposed identity can own it, is stupid thinking for stupid people. It shows a real lack of respect for study, learning, and the sometimes shockingly accurate ability of a perceptive imagination to create a character bigger than life.
Damn I'm good at this. LOL. Love ya', Jen        
Opes Added Jun 28, 2017 - 8:48am
Thanks for your reply to the questions posed.  You stated:
Quote -
#1, society at large decides. And society has decided that racist slurs are unacceptable. It just needs to be enforced equally on all.
#2 punishment is generally being banned, fired, or otherwise ostracized by the majority of people.
#3 No they shouldn't.
#4 I would say yes, but it depends if it's taken to far and is really art.
On #3 you stipulate on whether or not slips of the tongue count by saying No they shouldn't.  That goes to intent.  I just believe that intentions are sometimes very difficult to delineate.
Shane Laing Added Jun 30, 2017 - 2:19am
Jenifer, thanks for definitions. Sorry thought fried chicken was a derogatory term for a white person just wanted to check.  Agree with you regarding the use of the N word either all can use it or none. Personally I find it repulsive, maybe because I have black friends from both Africa and the Caribbean. Saying that they really don't get on together.

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