RELIGIOUS PEOPLE ARE EGOISTS !

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PROVOCATION ! SCREAM !

 

Why do I say that ? I don't want to insult anybody who believes in the old guy in the sky, Don't I....well....probably I do. Not insult, but well, give them a slap to the forehead for their arrogance to know the "truth".

 

Why ?  

 

Because I simply cannot understand how people can believe all that crap which is written by humans in so-called sacred books like a bible, a thora or a quran. That stuff is at least 2'000 years old and has been rewritten dozens of times to suit the powers of their era.  

 

Question.  

 

There is a pic and a story on Facebook about the attacks in Europe. Funny thing is, on each event the same "victim" is taken on a photo, crying, moaning. Now people look at that and say: Fake ! Photoshop !  

 

Ok.  

 

But they would never question if the mentioned "sacred books" or "god" could be fake, right ? Because there was no Photoshop or pictures ? Or isn't it rather because the whole thing is so OLD and therefore HAS to be true ? Finally even in the stone age people had their gods to imagine where they came from......  

 

I guess it's only a part of it. Of course, a kid will believe what the parents believe has to be true. And when this is the case since the n-th generation it HAS to be. That's one point.  

 

The second point is that religion provides comfort in life, sickness and in view of death. That's the most important point and it's understandable. We humans don't know anything else than being ALIVE. So death is something unknown, to be afraid of, also a deep feeling of loss comes into it - and that's the REAL reason why religions are still alive today. To hope that....something carries on, whatever it may be.   Not the talk of "love thy neighbor" and be peaceful.

 

Religion points at YOU, not at humanity as such. We're not an empathic and loving animal except for the ones which secure reproduction of the species.   We use religion for our own well-being and comfort, not because we care about others.  

 

And as long as it's like that, religion keeps on being an empty shell. As long as people don't understand the underlying philosophy of humanity and empathy - and act according to it.   I prefer an atheist anytime to a Sunday churchgoer who pretends because he can't afford not to be seen in church because talks could start. To my experience, maybe one out of ten people who say they are believers ACT accordingly. When it comes to real life, they do any shit and then confess it in church in hope to get some good time in heaven despite of what they have done.  

 

A man (priest) forgives another man. Hilarious !  

 

You don't need a "god" to be a happy and fearless man. You can understand the 10 commandments of the bible (for example) as a guideline, when they don't come to your mind naturally. That's what they're actually meant for.

 

Education for kids and - often also - grownups.

Comments

Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 8, 2017 - 4:01am
Sorry that some comments are lost. I posted the article too early, and therefore it was deleted ;-)
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 8, 2017 - 4:09am
First, thanks for not including the symbol of the Kemetian faith (the Ankh). Second, just for the record, us Kemetians don't worship a old guy in the sky but rather an ageless, no gender, nonhumanoid superbeing beyond space and time. And I hope you and others would not see us as egotistical given that we abor all forms of bigotry and accept all belief and non-believers so long as they also tolerate others. Anyways.... 
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 8, 2017 - 4:19am
Jenifer
 
And I hope you and others would not see us as egotistical given that we abor all forms of bigotry and accept all belief and non-believers so long as they also tolerate others.
 
That's one of the main points ! Most "animist" or natural beliefs are tolerant, as the ones I know of in Africa. They operate by "live and let live". Unlike those sects which have became world religions, namely Christianity and Islam.
 
Even Buddhism has its dark side. No matter which religion you take: It may provoke aggression sooner or later. It automatically gets involved in politics.
 
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32929855
Patrick Writes Added Jun 8, 2017 - 4:36am
"I prefer an atheist anytime to a Sunday churchgoer who pretends because he can't afford not to be seen in church because talks could start."
 
Fair point. 
 
The rest of this post is curious. The sacred book of the Bible is one of the most questioned, challenged, and doubted books of all time. Do you honestly believe, in our hedonistic Western culture, that if there wasn't something in that book, something that makes people say "that rings true for me", that Christianity would still be a force to be reckoned with socially, culturally, and politically? 
 
For example, why would countless people in Western culture want to wait until marriage to be intimate with a woman, like the good book says, unless there was something inward motivating them?
 
"Of course, a kid will believe what the parents believe has to be true."
 
Yes, of course. But how many adults do you know at age 40 are still living exactly how they were raised by their parents? Most throw off stuff that they don't believe makes sense when reaching adulthood. So that argument really doesn't hold water if you're talking about Christianity in a Western country today. Nobody is going to stay in a religion for their entire lives simply because "that's how mom and dad raised me". I can show you countless examples of people I've known personally who that wasn't true for. 
Patrick Writes Added Jun 8, 2017 - 4:45am
Since this post seems to have the Catholicism flavor of Christianity in mind, I wanted to add that many Protestant denominations of Christianity are world's different. They focus on the Holy Spirit regenerating the 'good person' inside of you. And works flow out from that inner change, which also brings you peace. It's not about following rules but having a relationship with God and the rule-following happens on accident.
Minister Peaceful Poet Added Jun 8, 2017 - 4:49am
SEF - we know each other, have for a long time, I don't even need to comment on this, but I will.
 
There a group who believe that the bible is the word of God and if you don't believe that, then you're going to hell.  How do they know that, they don't, that's the point.  But they are sooo sure about it.
 
As for me though, I remember before I was born.  I can't say for sure where that memory came from.  No more than we can be certain that we are not apart of another person's dream, or any other number of fringe ideas.
 
But seems impossible for me believe that all this happened by accident over a span of many, many, many years.  We became flesh and bone that walks and talks and thinks for themselves.  And all the other living things around us, accidents that just took a long time to happen, just can't believe that. 
 
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 8, 2017 - 4:50am
Patrick
 
that if there wasn't something in that book, something that makes people say "that rings true for me", that Christianity would still be a force to be reckoned with socially, culturally, and politically? 
 
You can say the same about all other "sacred books" of any religion. As I said there are philosophical, educational and even psychological parts in it worth looking at. I'm not pointing to that. I'm pointing to the fact that people regard is as "true" that an all-knowing and powerful leader exists somewhere who demands absolute obeying, if not.......down into hell, right ?
 
Archaic.
 
This exists in Christianity as well as Islam.
 
But how many adults do you know at age 40 are still living exactly how they were raised by their parents
 
Many. They live differently, but they are marked for life in their way of thinking. Not all, but many.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 8, 2017 - 4:55am
BTW: My main point is when one is not able to follow the 10 commandments WITHOUT believing in a god, he missed the original message: BEHAVE and be nice to each other. And since you don't do that without having a boss watching you, we'll give you one.
 
These books were written by philosophs which knew how to treat the people of their era.
Mircea Negres Added Jun 8, 2017 - 5:01am
I'm with you on this one, Stone-Eater. The biggest problem with religion (whichever one you pick) is not the religion itself, but the majority of the people and their often self-serving and hypocritical actions. Nice article, man.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 8, 2017 - 5:02am
Thanks Mircea. Although I know it won't change anything ;-)
Patrick Writes Added Jun 8, 2017 - 5:29am
Last point and I'll go away. If you're an atheist, aren't you also saying you know THE truth? Which is that there is no God?
 
From your article, you seem like you want to argue from an agnostic point of view but then claim you're an atheist. Seems inconsistent to me. 
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 8, 2017 - 5:43am
Patrick
 
I'm not saying I know the "truth". Truth is subjective. To me, things are logical or not. Imaginable or not when considering different viewpoints.
 
What makes you think I argue from an agnostic point ? It's not the main subject. I talk of religions in general, not about differences between agnostic and atheist. I'm NOT explicitely talking of Christianity.
 
When people perceive it that way it shows that they feel attacked in THEIR religion only.......maybe I should have used Allah in it too. To me, "god" means all of them, or in fact, the only and same one ;-)
Thomas Sutrina Added Jun 8, 2017 - 8:32am
Egoist means:  One devoted to one's own interests and advancement; an egocentric person.  I think Marx and those that do not believe in any religion are also egoist.   It is part of human nature.
Leroy Added Jun 8, 2017 - 8:55am
"Truth is subjective."
 
Truth is absolute.  Our perception can be subjective.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 8, 2017 - 10:11am
Thomas
 
I meant it provocative, as I said. The hypocrisy about it all. No matter WHICH religion.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 8, 2017 - 10:18am
Leroy
 
So then......
 
But the label is usually applied much more broadly to any view explicitly embracing the idea that truth consists in a relation to reality, i.e., that truth is a relational property involving a characteristic relation (to be specified) to some portion of reality (to be specified).
 
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/truth-correspondence/
 
I don't water it down to "some" portion of reality. There has to be a clear standing on that. What I can grasp with my senses, IS. What I can't grasp has to be proved by a technology so I can grasp it (radio waves, ultraviolet light etc.) and regard as reality.
 
A god can not be experienced by us, by none of our senses or technological crutches. Therefore, for me, it doesn't exist. Easy as that.
 
Believing is not knowing the "truth".
 
Dino Manalis Added Jun 8, 2017 - 7:25pm
Science and money cannot solve all our problems, that's why people turn to religion for answers and reassurance.  Life isn't perfect.  Religion helps the helpless and hopeless.  
Peter Corey Added Jun 8, 2017 - 7:27pm
> Most "animist" or natural beliefs are tolerant
 
No they're not. The Konkomba tribe in Ghana are animist and extremely warlike. Animist tribes in the Caribbean were not only warlike but also practiced cannabilism.
Peter Corey Added Jun 8, 2017 - 7:32pm
>What I can grasp with my senses, IS.
 
You can't grasp someone else's thoughts (nor can someone else's thoughts be proven or shown by any kind of technology); therefore, no one has thoughts except you.
 
>What I can't grasp has to be proved by a technology so I can grasp it (radio waves, ultraviolet light etc.) and regard as reality.
 
It's a very naive philosophical position, generally known as "solipsism". It doesn't get you very far in understanding the world, which is probably its main attraction.
 
>A god can not be experienced by us, by none of our senses or technological crutches.
 
Unless, of course, it can be experienced by us but we're so used to it that we simply take it for granted. 
John G Added Jun 9, 2017 - 3:05am
It's funny that Corey is offering his "insights". The guy is thick as a plank.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 9, 2017 - 7:26am
Peter
 
It doesn't get you very far in understanding the world,
 
I don't think that my understanding of "the world" depends on such subjects. I understand the world by participating in it, not by trying to figure out what invisible stuff is out there. The world is humans, and humans are pretty simple in the end. One can complicate things.
 
Unless, of course, it can be experienced by us but we're so used to it that we simply take it for granted. 
 
What am I supposed to do with that comment ? We take what for granted ? That a god exists ?
 
Well, I guess we're too far apart to properly understand each other.
Steve Bergeron Added Jun 9, 2017 - 11:58am
Stone-Eater, 
 
Do you realize you're guilty of the same exact thing of which you're accusing religionists, i.e., that you "know the truth?"  Or are you saying you don't know the truth, which means your post is completely meaningless.  Help me out here.  Either you know something, or don't, right?  Truth relativism is an intellectual disease.  Truth relativists are absolutely certain that they cannot be absolutely certain about anything. LOL
 
Today's atheists don't seem capable of rational arguments or thought.  They refer to God as "the guy in the sky" or some other cause in the universe.  Real believers don't believe that God is some creature living in the sky, either. That analogy is something used with children whose brains haven't developed enough to handle abstract thought yet.  Like the children being taught 1 + 1 = 2 by using apples to represent the numbers.  Cynicism is probably not your best bet with regard to making a rational argument as to the existence of God...except with the uneducated, perhaps.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 9, 2017 - 11:58am
Nosh
 
 Philosophy is branch of Religion
 
I would read it vice-versa. I googled Farohar. You see, I put this picture in not for a specific religion, but by talking generally. I don't care about how many religions exist and how they impress themselves. As I said, I like the philosophical part in those I know a bit, be it African native beliefs like the Dogon, or even the bible.
 
But what I strongly oppose is believing in a god which is not experiencable by any of our senses, and which wants us to obey rules which, in our world of today, should be common sense. Without needing a corset or a crutch.
 
BTW: The poem is not bad. Seen from a religious point of view - it is the truth. Religious people should be free of prejudice and self-righteousness, and be tolerant and open.
 
As their religion originally demands. At least the part which does not concern blind following, punishment or other stuff that shuts up the open mind.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 9, 2017 - 11:59am
Impress = express. Sorry...;-)
Phil Greenough Added Jun 9, 2017 - 12:07pm
“We use religion for our own well-being and comfort, not because we care about others.” 
 
As seen by the countless religious charitable institutions, religious people, because of their belief in God, care about others.  In other words, I would argue that those that don’t believe in God, think their existence in this world is only about themselves. This is why atheists, such as yourself, are the egoists among us. You’re also mean-spirited to belittle something others believe in their heart and mind. 
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 9, 2017 - 12:23pm
Phil
 
As seen by the countless religious charitable institutions, religious people, because of their belief in God, care about others
 
This means to me that these people would either a) not be capable to act humanly without their "boss"'s order, and/or b) most charitable institutions make lots of PROFIT. The people who work and support them are simply naive.
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3357458/One-five-UK-s-biggest-charities-spending-half-public-donations-good-causes-spend-little-ONE-CENT-charitable-work.html
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3463094/STEPHEN-GLOVER-no-longer-charities-bosses-home-fat-cat-salaries.html
 
This is why atheists, such as yourself, are the egoists among us. You’re also mean-spirited to belittle something others believe in their heart and mind. 
 
Do you know me ? You judge me personally while I talk generally. By saying that you disqualify yourself, sorry.
 
Ric Wells Added Jun 9, 2017 - 1:05pm
If people use the tenets of the religious doctrine to prove their own superiority then they have aborted the very virtues they purport to support. This is why the use and abuse of religion is too limiting. It blocks expansion of thought and the human drive for  humanistic progress for the betterment of all rather than their select few. Rather synonymous with governments as well.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 9, 2017 - 1:29pm
Ric
 
Well said !!
Ric Wells Added Jun 9, 2017 - 1:32pm
I have my moments. LOL.
wsucram15 Added Jun 9, 2017 - 3:22pm
SEF..we have had this discussion.  Religion exists to those that believe in it, you have no right to take that away from them, just as they have NO RIGHT to tell you that you are wrong for not believing in a Superior being(s).
We have discussed the difference in Spirituality and Religion in which you saw no difference.  I see a vast difference in them both.
I also see a great ability to expand your mind specifically as a spiritual being.  It also depends on your concept of religion how restricted you are as to your understanding of thought and lets say God.  Im pretty Sure Ghandi or Mandella (both religious men) were far more for progress and the betterment of mankind than most people on here.  I also believe they were not limited in their thought process.  It is the human spirit that limits or releases your mind...  not religion or faith.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 9, 2017 - 3:49pm
Jeanne
 
It is the human spirit that limits or releases your mind...  not religion or faith
 
That's it. And one can be "spiritual" without believing in a god ;-)
 
To me...."spiritual" is very simple: Accept your next, whichever color or culture he has. Because at the bottom he's the same as you.
 
We should not try to be more complicated than we are.
wsucram15 Added Jun 9, 2017 - 4:35pm
I agree, Ive just seen alot.  So I choose to believe that there is a higher being, but I am not into organized religion. Faith I have found has more to do with Spirituality than Religion.
I would identify as a  Christian I guess  but I have some issues with  things I dont adhere to, like judging others.  I cant go there and again I dont like church.
But I can honestly tell you, I have never been limited to any belief or thought process. I am always open to listen and I understand the science behind "no possibility of God and Evolution".
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 9, 2017 - 6:03pm
Jeanne
 
So I choose to believe that there is a higher being
 
That is my problem. I was never able to "choose" to believe something - in all matters and subjects. Either it fits into my personal logic and thinking or not ;-)
 
I simply can't believe something just because I'm told it's true or that the majority of people believe it. Wish I could sometimes. Would make life a lot easier.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 9, 2017 - 6:09pm
I am always open to listen and I understand the science behind "no possibility of God and Evolution".
 
? The two are contradictory. You got the Adam and Eve story for the illiterate of their era and the science of Anthropology for the people of today.
 
The first was sufficient for the time people lived in. The second has, to me, LOGIC in it. And I believe that nature follows the primitive logic of "the stronger developes and survives". And we're talking of time frames of millions of years. Also logical to me.
 
As I said: The bible or the quran were at first educations books. But there had to be a story around it to make it understandable for the people back then. That led to Adam and Eve.
 
The rest was copied by the Greek and maybe other philosophers which explained humanity long before. 
Nancy Rexford Added Jun 9, 2017 - 6:10pm
Stone
I have never understood the sheep like adherence to any religion.
I was the 2nd generation of Roman Catholic my grandmother converted and raised my mother and aunt in the faith. She tried her damnedest to pour that stuff down my throat too.
 
But the small town we lived in had numerous people who while going to confession and church regularly continually broke the rules and commandments. To me it seemed like "confession" gave them a free pass to do the same things - hey as long as there was confession and no actual consequences for "sinning".
 
Hypocrites always bother me.
 
Religion scares me because you are suppose to give up your mind in addition to your immortal soul. 
At its worse it has killed off people who dared to think differently from the traditional Catholic doctrine  at its supposed "best" we are supposed to love everyone.
 
It reminds me of the Hitler rally films where blind obedience was required by the Nazis.
 
The same mindless soulless obedience is visible in the middle eastern fanatics regardless of their religion.  
 In each instance the public was supposed to tow the line, even now the fanatics will not tolerate people who do not  buy the philosophy they are preaching.
 
To me that means it is just a shell because if you terrify people into your way of thinking rather than let them discover the merits of a particular religious philosophy it truly is a sham rather than a philosophy you could live by.
 
 
 
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 9, 2017 - 6:11pm
Correction:
 
That led to god and Adam and Eve.
Steve Bergeron Added Jun 9, 2017 - 10:05pm
Nancy, what a sad commentary.  Did your parents 'pour' other objective truths "down your throat," too, like mathematics, science, history, etc.?  Did you reject those things, too?
 
Here's a different perspective, that may help you understand the "hypocrite" thing you seem stuck on.  The Church is not a magical box wherein everyone is perfect.  It has never claimed to be such.  It is more like a gymnasium with the world's best exercise equipment in it.  Folks like you are like folks who never exercise, don't believe in exercise, and point to the gym saying, "Those people that go there are a bunch of hypocrites and the gym is useless!  I've seen several people go in there fat, and come out fat!  Therefore, it is all a hoax!"
 
And, yet, there are people who belong to that gym that compete in body building competitions, iron man competitions, etc.  What's the difference?  They use the equipment "religiously" as the equipment was designed to be used.  Therefore, they get the benefits that the equipment is supposed to get them.  The folks that walk in fat and stay fat, don't use the equipment, or use it erroneously.  Or, maybe they're losing weight too slowly for your occasional snapshots to see.  
 
The proper definition of religion is the submission of one's will to God.  God is the ultimate good, the ultimate love, the ultimate everything.  He is the only one to giving complete submission of one's will to, making us like, yes, "sheep."  He is the Good Shepherd. 
 
My guess is that you rejected Catholicism because you wanted to make yourself your own god and do what you wanted to do, rather than what God wanted you to do.  So, you began looking for all sorts of "plausible sounding" excuses to sooth your conscience.  I suspect, though, that somewhere deep inside, you are not at peace.  Otherwise, you wouldn't come in here trying to justify your rejection of God and His Mystical Body, the Catholic Church.
 
Every individual has been created by God, in His image and likeness.  Every individual is totally unique, precious, and unrepeatable, with an infinite dignity due him/her.  God sent His only Son, Jesus, to die in our place, because of our sins.  He sweat blood in the Garden of Gethsemane because He knew, full well, that there would be some who would reject Him and His teaching, in favor of self.  And that thought was traumatizing to Him, due to His tremendous love for every human being...including you.
 
 
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 9, 2017 - 11:34pm
Steve writes "The proper definition of religion is the submission of one's will to God. " 
With all due respect, but while that may be the definition of your primitive and backwards form of "religion" it certainly is not mine nor that of many. We clearly have not only a extremely different concept of religion but an entirely different god/God. Please quit trying to speak for others you obviously have little to nothing in common with. 
Michael B. Added Jun 10, 2017 - 12:41am
One of my good friends said it best on a couple of levels:
 
"Religion is good for good people, and bad for bad people."
 
"Christianity is making people feel guilty for the air they breathe, and then charging them for it."
 
And my favorite one of all:
 
"A man needs Christianity like a fish needs a bicycle."
 
Don't get me wrong, it's not like I object to how different people feel the need to be spiritual in their own unique ways, but I begin to take exception when they try to impose their ways upon me, not to mention the judgements that often accompany the same.
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 10, 2017 - 2:06am
"A man needs Christianity like a fish needs a bicycle."
I think that's my favorite as well. Who needs a bicycle that demands submission? I think I rather take the bus. 
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 10, 2017 - 4:13am
BTW, as much as I try to prove otherwise, people like Steve make it extremely difficult to prove Stone-Eater's hypothetical that Religious people are egoists anything but true. 
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 10, 2017 - 7:26am
"A man needs Christianity like a fish needs a bicycle."
 
LOOL
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 10, 2017 - 7:30am
Nancy
 
Excellent comment. I can only nod.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 10, 2017 - 7:30am
Steve
 
I read your reply to Nancy and don't know what to say. I guess I better say nothing. We're worlds apart...
Paul Hosse Added Jun 10, 2017 - 10:39am
I think religion, of whatever variety, was meant to answer questions to things we didn't understand yet. Our natural nature to explore and explain has eliminated much of the need for it. However, religion was also created for the same of providing order, and that means control; by individuals and then, later, by the State. Misbehave here and we'll make sure you are punished in the hereafter, or obey us now and we'll reward you later....when you are dead. Religion has shrunk as our knowlege has increased. It is one of the few chains of our past left. However, that chain provides comfort to some and restraint to others or to put it another way, fear of god(s) versus meeting god(s) on equal terms. As everyone knows from mythology, the child always seeks to overcome the parent.  
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 10, 2017 - 10:43am
Paul
 
Good points and
 
I think religion, of whatever variety, was meant to answer questions to things we didn't understand yet
 
My words. But by saying that one often talks to walls...
Paul Hosse Added Jun 10, 2017 - 11:00am
Talking to walls...yes, I would agree.  We, as a species, were led by religion for so long. It provided meaning while we searched for answers. It remainds me of how children can sound so grown up on one hand and still want to be read nursey rhymes at bedtime. Now, we are led by science and technology; our intellect. But many are afraid to let go of the hand which provided them with comfort. It's like the child trying to walk for the first time on its own. We Humans are an advancing technological species but we are still very immature. A measure of this is our capability for creating great good or terrible destruction. Right now, our lack of collective wisdom has led up to do more of the latter than the former. Religion, in its fight to maintain control and provide order, has failed to adapt with our nature to grow and explore. 
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 10, 2017 - 11:19am
Paul
 
Excellent, I wouldn't know what to add. I wait for your next article :-)
Tubularsock Added Jun 10, 2017 - 1:12pm
Stone, this debate will continue forever. And everyone believes they are correct. Tubularsock believes that HE IS GOD so the debate is over just send unmarked bills in large brown lunch bags to The Tubularsock Truth Institute, Ltd.
 
And remember, the more you send the stronger the belief.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 10, 2017 - 2:48pm
T
 
LOL That's why I started it. Once and for all.
Justin Zhao Added Jun 10, 2017 - 2:52pm
I don't mean to insult the author (or do I?) well, I guess you can say I just want to slap some sense into him.
Maybe I can use a kind of bullet list since the article is wrong or screwy on so many different levels.
 
- There is no religion called 'religion' where 'religionists' practice religionism at Religion Temple. It would be just the same as describing people who believe in 'government' and pointing out how government types believe in this and that, how governmentalists think communism will work but governments also vote for city dog by-laws.
 
- While the author is of course a real manly man, a powerfully brave type who's stronger than Religionists he should probably understand that belief in an afterlife is not comforting to most or many of the believers. For many believers (and not only Christians) death, as they believe it to be, is also known as 'Meeting their Maker' and that is a terrifying thing, a humbling thing, its something that puts people through tremendous torments, good, bad. They keep short and long lists, they deal with regret, guilt as they suppose they will meet their Maker and He will judge them with all knowledge of not just their actions but their heart and soul.
 
- The very very old belief in the afterlife being 'the same as before you were born' and a state of 'nothingness' (considered the highest of all levels) this is the easiest one on the emotions if you wanted to choose a belief. Of course, the author needs great inner fortitude and powerful courage to believe 'when you're dead you're free from anything'.
 
- The Koran is about 1400 years old. Not 'at least 2000' and The Torah is in the typical bible as 'The Old Testament' (more or less).
 
- As to the age, I'm not exactly sure why the author believes civilization's understanding of philosophy and religious/spiritual ideas would be like Computers or Cars in that they are somehow less sophisticated the older they are? Does the author believe people had lower-IQs or because they hadn't built up the same technology as today they'd not understand issues like Existence, purpose, sin, justification, sanctification the nature of God or meaning of life? I'd strongly suggest to the author that someone like Moses coming out of one of the worlds greatest empires of Egypt as an elite student.. or Paul coming out of the Roman Empire and its Jewish Scholars and it's great gentile philosophers were engaging in spiritual and philosophical ideas that (much like artwork) have never been surpassed. A good argument could be made we haven't added a single improvement in the last 2000 year either. Nor have we improved on sculptures either. Because they were well at their peak 2000 years ago.
 
- Christianity does not have churches or a system where people ACT holy and perfect and then are claiming they do. Nearly the exact opposite is true. Not just 9 out of 10 churchgoers have done a dozen sins the previous week - 10 out of 10 have. 100% of them. They will become Christians by admitting they are hypocrites, they cannot keep the laws, they cannot be sinless. The author has an amazingly ignorant and near 'opposite wrong' understanding of the most basic of Christian ideas and is crowing and clucking how Christians aren't behaving the way the author thinks they ought to.
 
- Priests don't really do the forgiving. There could be 1000 pages written on this, however, the very idea is that Jesus provides the forgiveness. Here again the author is chortling and rolling eyes at his own misunderstanding.
 
- Again, the powerful superman that is the author wants to chuckle as he hands out a little lesson to the inferior children around him - you don't need God to be a happy and fearless person. Well the author is almost accidentally correct. You only need to believe in a godless Universe. (or at least one where you don't have to answer to a Maker). Then you certainly can be happy and fearless. For after all, then its simply 'eat, drink for tomorrow we die' and nothing will matter but to gratify yourself.
 
- There aren't any good reasons for the author to try and follow the 10 commandments by 'feel' or any other way. At any given time they may or may not suit the authors feelings of self empowerment and happiness. But there would be no compelling reason to obey any or keep any sort of rule with them.
 
-
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 10, 2017 - 3:17pm
Justin
 
What do you want to say by that exactly ?
 
And:
 
You might address me personally, otherwise your comment borders on sneering and arrogance.
 
There aren't any good reasons for the author to try and follow the 10 commandments by 'feel' or any other way
 
That shows me that you missed the message.
 
Christianity does not have churches or a system where people ACT holy and perfect and then are claiming they do. Nearly the exact opposite is true. Not just 9 out of 10 churchgoers have done a dozen sins the previous week - 10 out of 10 have. 100% of them
 
Sorry but I can't follow that. Maybe my English is not sufficient - or yours.
Paul Hosse Added Jun 10, 2017 - 4:16pm
Thanks Stone. I don't mind commenting on a few interesting articles from time to time, like this one. I've stopped posting on this site; to many hateful people just trying to make themselves feel better. However, I still post on AnotherOpinionbog.com and several other sites. Stop by anytime. 
Justin Zhao Added Jun 10, 2017 - 5:44pm
I'm sure everything I wrote went over the head of the OP. It would if I tried to reword the awkward paragraph. It was more for readers than the OP.
 
Atheism is a belief that goes back well over 2000 years ago.
There.
That is one simple point for the author to think about.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 10, 2017 - 5:51pm
Atheism is a belief that goes back well over 2000 years ago.
 
Link ? And would you mind explaining OP ? Not everybody in the world is American, although some people believe that.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 10, 2017 - 5:53pm
Paul
 
Thanks, I'll stop by !
Donald Swenson Added Jun 11, 2017 - 2:54pm
The above was very interesting. All the viewpoints and different perceptions. What does this reveal? To me, it reveals that we live on a planet with some 7.4 billion people who all are unique, different, and who perceive reality uniquely (to varying degrees). 
 
The idea of ONE absolute TRUTH is not realistic (to me) given that we all have perceptions and understandings which differ. Who can enunciate absolute TRUTH in real-time? Who knows anything with absolute 'certainty'? I am still waiting for this person to emerge.
 
So if all 'truth' is relative and changing then what might be a reasonable response to this situation? My view is that my view is singular and always somewhat uncertain. I may express my view as a firm belief but I must accept that what I believe can change and does change over time. My views today are not the same as when I was a youth (although) I do still believe in a Higher Intelligence (Power/Source/Creator). D
 
 
Nancy Rexford Added Jun 11, 2017 - 2:55pm
Steven, your comment
"The proper definition of religion is the submission of one's will to God."
Is precisely what gets us into trouble regardless of what religion and which God is being espoused.
I am sure when you make that statement you are choosing YOUR god and not the God of other groups.
 
Since the beginning of god based religions when others fail to agree and adhere to the tenets of that God his followers are not adverse of trying to wipe out the nonbelievers violently.
 
 
 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 11, 2017 - 3:00pm
To my way of thinking, my inner words, concepts, and ideas derive from the metaphysical realm. Socrates and Plato popularized the philosophy of Dualism. Personally, I view Dualism as reality (for me).
 
Dualism, says that my words, ideas, and inner beliefs derive from my spirit/mind/soul. I then view the 'outer' realm of matter/energy as part of another realm. In other words, when I look up at the heavens I view objects in the sky. These objects are part of matter/energy. I then give each object a 'name' and this 'name' derives from my inner self (my spirit or mind). This is an example of Dualism.
 
Stone-Eater, to me, is a Monist or Materialist (at the core of his beliefs). He does not perceive my inner spiritual nature. I use 'words' and 'ideas' to express my beliefs but SEF apparently views these inner spiritual phenomena as physical or material. This may be why he does not view an inner spirit Source as real. My first impression from reading SEF's views. Am I interpreting SEF falsely? D
Nancy Rexford Added Jun 11, 2017 - 3:02pm
Stone in my 50's I realized that I have lived up to the basics of the Roman Catholic doctrine.
 
With the 2 departures: not attending mass, confessing my sins and never having children.
 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 11, 2017 - 3:05pm
My view is that our Creator is not some 'man' in the sky. This, to me, is a false perception of reality. Thomas Jefferson derived this idea of a 'Creator' when he wrote the Declaration of Independence. T.J. viewed reality as a Dualist. The Great Creator is a self-evident reality (said T.J.) but many can not discern this reality (within themselves). Did T.J. have a point? Is their a Creator who is our Prime Mover in our greater material universe? Or was T.J. and myself living a deception? What do you think? D
Donald Swenson Added Jun 11, 2017 - 3:16pm
If fact, most of the founders of America and those who created our values believed in a Creator or God. George Washington believed. John Adams believed. Thomas Jefferson believed. James Madison believed. Abraham Lincoln believed. John F. Kennedy believed, etc. All these serious leaders/thinkers had different perceptions and core ideas about their beliefs, but the idea of a Source transcendent to themselves was basically self-evident. My estimate today is that some 80% of all the 7.4 billion on planet earth tend to believe in a Higher Source, Power, or Intelligence. Is this valid? D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 11, 2017 - 3:52pm
The Founders were mostly Deists Donald. You also wrote "The idea of ONE absolute TRUTH is not realistic (to me) given that we all have perceptions and understandings which differ. Who can enunciate absolute TRUTH in real-time?" 
This is a core tenet of my beliefs as well, and is why we are instructed to accept other beliefs as equals to our own - - EXCEPT for beliefs that teach their's is the absolute truth and only way and demand submission. Those are false teachings and rejected as spiritual cancer. 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 11, 2017 - 4:24pm
Jenifer: Yes, the founders were part Deist's and part Christian and part Evangelical (a mixture). Thomas Jefferson rejected the deity of Yeshua but he accepted his moral and prophetic teachings. George Washington appeared to be a mixture but certainly with Deist leanings. Benjamin Franklin was also a mixture with some Deist leanings. Others were more orthodox Christians and there also were Jews, Atheists, Masons, and Non-believers, etc.
 
I agree that truth is 'subjective' at the core. I am unable to enunciate any 'absolutes' which you must accept. Personally, I 'seek' truth and reality but my 'seeking' does not reach to the 'absolute' level. If I could enunciate 'absolutes' for you and everyone, I would be God (wouldn't I)? D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 11, 2017 - 5:00pm
Donald writes " I 'seek' truth and reality but my 'seeking' does not reach to the 'absolute' level. If I could enunciate 'absolutes' for you and everyone, I would be God (wouldn't I)?" 
Yes, and it is my belief that no one and nothing in this world can enunciate absolutes, nor can man communicate directly with God (we are not evolved enough). We can only seek Truth through personal mystical experience and certain divinely created teachers should we find them. 
 
BTW, Masonry isn't a religion but rather a occult fraternal religious group that requires a belief in God, but no specific religion. One can be Christian, Jewish, Wiccan, Muslim, Kemetian, etc as long as you believe in God. My grandfather on my mother's side was a Freemason. 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 11, 2017 - 6:25pm
Jenifer: I prefer the word belief system rather than the word religion. My Atheist friends are very committed to their belief system. I could call it their religion. But many don't like the word religion...so I now prefer the words Belief System. I could also use the word World View. 
 
Religion, to me, connotes an organized group think system... controlled by a hierarchy. D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 11, 2017 - 7:11pm
I for one do belong to a religion, the Kemetian religion, and specifically the Siaion of the Ancients Kemetian Temple located in Cincinnati Ohio to which I am the chief Priestess. We don't advertise or otherwise seek out people, we (like the Mason's also I might add) let prospective members seek us out. Just a FYI and disclaimer on that subject. 
 
It's interesting what you say about atheists and religion. I had to block about 100 atheists on Twitter because they refused to believe that an actual atheist church exists. It does, it's called The Church of Satan. They have a website and Wikipedia page but deniers come in all flavors it seems. 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 12, 2017 - 1:29am
Kemetian is a religion that I have never heard of. Who is the chief Deity? Who started this religion? When? Where? What are the core beliefs? D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 12, 2017 - 2:28am
The Kemetian religion and culture is that of Kemet (ancient Egypt). No one knows when it was founded or began but the Zep Tepy Texts place it before the construction of the Pyramids over 12,000 years ago and credit the Kemetian faith and culture being started by Heru/Horus the Kemetian messiah and Crst ("Christ") who is said to have been the incarnate Son of God who was born a man, lived a perfect life, was crucified, resurrected, and Ascended joining with the Netjeru/Aeons. The Divinely created teachers and messengers of God. Western culture has falsely thought of the Netjeru as the "many "gods" of ancient Egypt" but they are more akin to angels of the One true Kemetian God who is beyond understanding or comprehension at humanity's current state of evolution. We are therefore the world's first monotheistic faith and only have the One Deity, though He/She has many forms expressed through the Aeons. Our core beliefs center around upholding the 42 Principles of Maat (Divine Justice) and seeking to serve God through our spiritual teachers the Netjeru in this life. After death the Ka ("soul") of believers is weighed against the Feather of Maat. If the Ka is heavy in sin the individual must spend a period of time in punishment in Duat (the afterlife) before a chance at reincarnation is given. If the Ka is light the believer passes through the gates of paradise to spend a time of rest, reflection, and rejuvenation before being reincarnated to take the next step. Only the most evil face soul death and only the most perfect and evolved Ascend to join with Heru and the Petu Netjeru (Court of the Divine) in the higher dimensions and presence of God. The overall Kemetian belief system and tenets of our beliefs can be found in our core doctrines, which are The Book of Pylons, The Book of Vivifying the Soul Forever, The Pyramid Texts (Book of the Dead), and The Book of Coming Forth By Day. 
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 12, 2017 - 8:27am
Jenifer
 
Someone who believes in Satan is not an atheist. We think that neither exists.
 
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 12, 2017 - 8:27am
...nor god nor satan :)
 
 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 12, 2017 - 2:08pm
Jenifer: I googled the word Kemet and it says it refers to the land (black land of Egypt). Kemet was apparently not a real person. Also, the first pyramid was constructed around 2630 B.C. (some 4,700 years prior to today). Your idea of 12,000 years must be invalid. 
 
The gods of Egypt included Ra (Sun God), Amun, Atum, Ptah, and a host of 'names' derived from imagination. I think your religion is rather illusionary, Jenifer. You may want to question some of this dogma with various sources. Why believe in pure myth?
 
I think that gods emerge from our imagination and then get applied to objects within nature. My God, however, is the God of Abraham, Noah, Adam, Moses, and Yeshua. This God is 'inner' and lives within our spiritual realm (also our consciousness). You can read about my God in the book of Revelation (with emphasis on Rev. 4, 5, and 6). D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 12, 2017 - 2:43pm
Stone-Eater Google "Church of Satan" and read about them from either their Wikipedia page or their own website. 
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 12, 2017 - 2:53pm
Wow, either you are an ass or very very stupid #1 I never said Kemet was a person dumbass, maybe quit putting words in my mouth. I said it was the name of ancient Egypt (in the Ancient Egyptian language). #2 I also never said that Pyramids were 12,000 years ago I said the Kemetian religion was and that it was older than the Pyramids, dumbass slanderer. #3 I already explained to you that the Netjeru are not "gods" but rather messengers of the One God. Only Western culture has falsely mistaken them for being "gods" because of your peoples obsession with paganism. Idiot. You are a joke and a rude uneducated fool. Do not waste my time replying to me again shova cracker. 
 
P.S. The oldest copy of Revelations is from the 4th century C.E. written in a language it's supposed author never knew in a style he never used. It is obvious Church of Rome scare propaganda. Obvious to all but servants of false "gods" dumbass fools like yourself. Have a shitty day fuck face. 
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 12, 2017 - 2:56pm
Should maybe change the title of this essay to "Christian fools are rude ignorant egotistical asshats" would be more accurate. 
Justin Zhao Added Jun 12, 2017 - 3:01pm
To the OP: Internet Jargon habit. The acronym for 'Original Poster' in this case Mr. Freidli
 
If you were interested in being an expert on religion and the moral superiority of your atheism you really want to start with the basics:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_atheism
 
Atheism is certainly much much older than Christianity and as near as we can tell it - older than Moses.
A very ancient belief.
It has had a popular revival in the Western world in the last 100 years as our world grew much smaller and Western scholars, scientists and explorers brought back more and more Eastern Religious ideas from Buddhism and Taoism and Indian religious ideas.
 
But the author should know his beliefs are very very old. Christianity is the new thing. Atheism is the very old thing.
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 12, 2017 - 3:04pm
Note:
Here is a link to what I believe, the 42 Principles of Maat 
target="_blank">https://truestrange.com/2008/03/11/42-principles-of-maat-2000-years-before-ten-commandments/
Note that the Christian Ten Commandments are predated by 2000 years and are in fact stolen from the 42 Principles of Maat. Just like the Christian Jesus is a plagerism of the Kemetian messiah Heru but predates him by 4000 years. Everything that the ignorant slandering paganized Christians have they either stole from us or the Jews, or like Revelations just made out of whole cloth and attributed it to long dead people. They are nothing but a group of murdering liar slandering paganized thieves and amoral bigoted backwards fools ONE AND ALL. 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 12, 2017 - 3:10pm
Jenifer: Sorry for misunderstanding your post. After reading it again I could interpret it differently. But my first read led me to the view that Kemet was a real person and the pyramids were over 12,0000 years old. Obviously, you did not 'mean' this but words can be confusing when written. Sorry for this misunderstanding. D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 12, 2017 - 3:12pm
BTW Stone-Eater I didn't say all atheists are Satanist, just Church of Satan Satanists are atheists (note not all Satanists are atheists either, just Church of Satan Satanists). Like I said before Googleing their own or the Wikipedia information on them (which is accurate in this case) is the easiest way to find out more about them because I'm not a representative of their religion. 
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 12, 2017 - 5:06pm
Donald if this was just a misunderstanding then I accept your apology... 
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 12, 2017 - 5:49pm
Jenifer
 
I'll check into Ma'at :-)
Donald Swenson Added Jun 12, 2017 - 11:06pm
Yes, Jenifer, I interpreted your words incorrectly... without knowing it. My response was based upon this incorrect interpretation. Sorry! D
Justin Zhao Added Jun 13, 2017 - 1:06pm
"Everything that the ignorant slandering paganized Christians have they either stole from us or the Jews, or like Revelations just made out of whole cloth and attributed it to long dead people. They are nothing but a group of murdering liar slandering paganized thieves and amoral bigoted backwards fools ONE AND ALL."
 
and with that violates half the commandments in the Book of the the Dead.
Which isn't nearly as much like the 10 commandments as Jenifer seems to think (though some pretty standard rules found around the world are surely 'stolen'):
 
Here is the Egyptian list (from Wikipedia):

I have not committed sin.
I have not committed robbery with violence.
I have not stolen.
I have not slain men and women.
I have not stolen grain.
I have not purloined offerings.
I have not stolen the property of the gods.
I have not uttered lies.
I have not carried away food.
I have not uttered curses.
I have not committed adultery, I have not lain with men
. I have made none to weep.
I have not eaten the heart [i.e., I have not grieved uselessly, or felt remorse].
I have not attacked any man.
I am not a man of deceit.
I have not stolen cultivated land.
I have not been an eavesdropper.
I have slandered [no man].
I have not been angry without just cause.
I have not debauched the wife of any man.
I have not debauched the wife of [any] man. (repeats the previous affirmation but addressed to a different god).
I have not polluted myself
I have terrorized none.
I have not transgressed [the Law].
I have not been wroth.
I have not shut my ears to the words of truth.
I have not blasphemed.
I am not a man of violence.
I am not a stirrer up of strife (or a disturber of the peace).
I have not acted (or judged) with undue haste.
I have not pried into matters.
I have not multiplied my words in speaking.
I have wronged none, I have done no evil.
I have not worked witchcraft against the King (or blasphemed against the King).
I have never stopped [the flow of] water.
I have never raised my voice (spoken arrogantly, or in anger).
I have not cursed (or blasphemed) God.
I have not acted with evil rage.
I have not stolen the bread of the gods.
I have not carried away the khenfu cakes from the spirits of the dead.
I have not snatched away the bread of the child, nor treated with contempt the god of my city.
I have not slain the cattle belonging to the god.

Never mind that these are said to many different gods and the Ten Commandments starts with the most blatant contradicting commandment to put no other gods before the One True God.
 
Or never mind that the Ten Commandments are for a purpose of establishing a covenant between one God and a living Tribe of people and the Book of the Dead is a series of 'Spells' one is to read out loud to various gods after death and to enter the underworld. So two very different and nearly opposite concepts entirely.
 
Also, Egyptians weren't Subsaharan Africans and there isn't some genetic 'magic and holiness' passed on through 'melanin genes' sorry to say.
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 13, 2017 - 3:44pm
Once again Justin there is but ONE God of Kemet the many Netjeru are emanations of the One not separate Pagan gods as per your Western pseudoreligious nonsense. Incidentally Wikipedia is FAR from scholarly, the link I provided shows exactly how the 42 Principles of Maat were turned into the Ten Commandments. Finally no one has injected race into this, that was until you did. Racist much? 
Patrycja M. Added Jun 13, 2017 - 4:06pm
As Marks said, people need religion to find the sense for their suffering. For many, religion makes life more bearable.
wsucram15 Added Jun 13, 2017 - 4:09pm
SEF..I told you before, I dont believe in organized religion.  I have had bad experiences with that.  So believing in something I have not experienced is not my style.  There is more, I wish I could explain it to you, but I can only say its more like a feeling than a great enormous light or entity that guides you.   A spiritual being not only understands but pursues this concept. 
Have you not ever had a rush of powerful emotion about something for absolutely no reason?  Its like that but for a long long time.  People that are gifted in religion (and I know a couple that I believe to be spiritually gifted) feel that way all the time. You might call it positive energy maybe..but its a lot of positive energy and its infectious.  
Perhaps its a weakness in the human psyche to want to have a crutch, but most people want to believe there is a better place.  Someplace they will be forgiven for their indiscretions,  or at least adhere to a strict set of moral codes..   But it does give people hope, and why take that from them?  I dont agree with all of it and used to call myself agnostic, but cannot do that anymore.  Which is what I believe you are.
But I  am open to the ideals of others and am a spiritual person.  I cannot close my mind to something greater than myself.
 
Justin Zhao Added Jun 13, 2017 - 4:27pm
is but ONE God of Kemet the many Netjeru are emanations of the One not separate Pagan gods
 
Eh, no. They are most definitely 'gods' and no they aren't just different revelations or 'emanations' of one inseparable God. They had a pantheon.
 
Incidentally Wikipedia is FAR from scholarly,
 
Wikipedia can get it wrong and sometimes they can't afford to be 'too scholarly' and will give standard and simplistic translations of the original Egyptian texts (pictographs) without spending 25 pages explaining to you the who, what and why of every angle of language translation, the problems and so on.
 
And that can be a problem if you try and get easily amazed how a sentence from 'The Book of the Dead' sounds just like a commandment. But the truth is, Hebrew and Egyptian language scholars would be able to explain in greater detail why they would or could be translated in much more varying ways.
 
>the link I provided shows exactly how the 42 Principles of Maat were turned into the Ten Commandments. 
 
But it doesn't. It just selected out some commandments that also sound like declarations to be made by Egyptians. It does nothing else, cracker.
 
But i have to tell you something that made me laugh.. the 'Kemet' nutters, almost like most Muslims, they cannot quite figure out that Christianity most definitely borrows everything out of Judaism. But these kooks (like you) are all excited about 'Christianity' copying 'Kemet Religion'.
 
What you'd want to do is show that Moses 'stole it' from Egypt and the Jews (Israelites) then developed it. Then Christianity would have just arisen from that. It's not like a bunch of people would have any need to say 'Let's start a new religion' then inexplicably go to Egypt to plagiarize this. Then return to Judea where Jews already had Moses, the 10 commandments.
 
Anyways, its all nonsense, stupidity, illogical, makes a mockery of history and is so full of fucktarded thinking that it's really wasting my time (and yours) trying to pretend you could sort it out lol, cracker.
 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 13, 2017 - 4:37pm
I think we need to recognize that each of 'sees' imperfectly when it comes to deep issues of reality. Why are there millions of guru's with different religious messages? Why some 30,000 denominations within Christianity? Why all the sects within Islam and Judaism? Who can enunciate reality with total objectivity? I think none! This means I need to present my view as subjective and singular. When I look at our planet it seems that we now have some 7.4 different unique points-of-view. This suggests diversity and difference. D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 13, 2017 - 5:04pm
I think someone who has spent their entire life studing their own faith knows more than some slandering historical revisionist racist Wikipedia jokey like Justin. AGAIN as an ordained Priestess of the Kemetian faith I can assure you that we are monotheistic, the Netjeru a and always have been our teachers not many "gods" anymore than Catholics with their many saints are Pagans. Justin is just a Westernized slandering fool beyond contemptible. 
wsucram15 Added Jun 13, 2017 - 5:22pm
Donald..I think you are correct.
Justin Zhao Added Jun 13, 2017 - 6:11pm
AGAIN as an ordained Priestess of the Kemetian faith I can assure you that we are monotheistic,
 
'Are' (present tense)
 
Yes, that is because you've made up your own new religion that is a plagiarist mix of Christianity and Ancient Egyptian religion(s).
 
It's bound to be popular with two groups of people:
- Racist Black Americans who are on the lower end of the IQ scale and will get lost and looped into slightly more complex concepts.
- Bored white males who want to create an online 'character' to troll people with.
 
But hey, the Nazis were first ridiculed for creating a very similar religion. Of course they also insisted it was ancient and was the 'true story' of Jesus and the Creation. They also introduced racist ideas and mixed Eastern mysticism with Christian worldviews. People ridiculed it but just take a look at how far it went, how much change it created (aka death and damage) but they definitely reached the 'Big Time' with their made-up goofy religion! Maybe you can too!
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 13, 2017 - 6:21pm
The racist plagiarist Zhao cries racism and plagiarism, nothing hypocritical about that. Of course someone like Zhao with zero credibility or credentials has little more to offer than insults and slanders. 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 13, 2017 - 9:02pm
Religion and beliefs are (to me) subjective attempts to find ultimate meaning from our real-time experiences. Personally, I find meaning in looking inward and asking myself questions. Who am I? Where did I come from? Is there a Higher Intelligence greater than myself? I don't discover any absolute 'truths' when I do this, but I do discover that asking questions helps me to grow and develop spiritually. D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 13, 2017 - 9:22pm
Here is some information to backup my statements about Egyptian monotheism:
Actually the greatest Egyptologists were not deceived, and since the year 1869 they saw a tendency for the Egyptian religion to bemonotheistic rather than polytheistic. It is necessary not to forget that Champollion died in Paris in 1832, leaving his brother the responsibilty of publishing in 1836 and 1841 a grammar and dictionary of Egyptian that he had not had time to finish. But in twenty years many experts came to Egypt in order to study the history and messages of antiquity.
Emmanuel of Rougé declared in a conference held in 1869 :

One idea predominated, that of One God, primitive, Eternal. He was everywhere and always present like an entity existing by Himself, but unapproachable because He was an Immaterial.
The essential characteristic of the religion (Egyptian) was the One monotheistic god who was expressed by the formulae:
The one and only GOD, Unique and Incomparable.
Thou art the only Being living always in the truth.
Thou art the only Eternal Being who was not created, but who created some millions of beings.

 
The Egyptologist Erik Hornung in his book "The One and the Many," mentions Eugène Grébaut, who affirmed in 1870 that: " In the ancient Egyptian religion,monotheism is incontestable. "
This same author also mentions the affirmation of Jean François Chabas that " The multiple gods of the Egyptians are only different aspects of the One God, of the Supreme. "
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 13, 2017 - 9:27pm
Sorry I forgot the source link:
The presence of Monotheism in the Egyptian religion - http://www.historel.net/english/egypt/10egypt.htm
In any event this debunks Mr. Zhao's slanders, even though my sources aren't as esteemed as, Wikipedia... (*sarcasm*) 
And I have much much more, he has nothing, except multiple racist comments which alone are enough to discredit him. 
Ric Wells Added Jun 13, 2017 - 11:23pm
Just testing my laptop buddy.
Ric Wells Added Jun 13, 2017 - 11:23pm
It works.
Donald Swenson Added Jun 14, 2017 - 12:15am
Jenifer,
I also believe in one monotheistic Creator. In fact, America was founded upon this concept. Read the Declaration of Independence by Thomas Jefferson, et al. This Source is immaterial and beyond human comprehension. D
Donald Swenson Added Jun 14, 2017 - 12:17am
Let God be TRUTH...and every man a liar (less than TRUTH). My mantra. D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 14, 2017 - 12:51am
That's a good mantra Donald! 
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 14, 2017 - 10:02am
Donald
 
Good for you that you can believe. I can't. It's against my logic. As I stopped believing in Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. I never even started to believe in god, thanks to my parents which let me get to my own conclusions without pushing me into a direction.
wsucram15 Added Jun 14, 2017 - 10:18am
SEF..I was pushed, I was brought up catholic. I have no respect at all for the faith or the church.  It comes from your education and experiences in life. Its just that simple.
Steve Bergeron Added Jun 14, 2017 - 10:54am
What we're seeing in some of these posts are the effect of the bad philosophy of Friederich Nietzsche, where he proposes the Ubermensch (Superman), who was supposed to be above good and evil, determining the meaning of life simply by his own will and power.  Yes, let's not "push" objective truth onto our children.  Let's allow them to wander aimlessly and see if they can find it for themselves.  The problem, of course, is what happens when two Supermen clash, when two limitless wills collide. The only path forward, Nietzsche correctly concluded, would be warfare. and let the strongest survive.  
 
We're seeing the effects of this view in our society now.  The congressman and others who were shot today by the lone gunman with a rifle in Virginia, were victims of this viewpoint.  The man asked if they were Republicans or Democrats.  When they said Republicans, he got his gun and started shooting.  He evidently had no ability or desire to argue the point intelligently, whatsoever.  He acted solely on his own beliefs and "his own truth" as if objective truth is somehow "owned" by anyone.  Objective truth just "is."  We were "manufactured" to seek it.  It's very helpful if someone who knows objective truth to share it with others, like our children.
MJ Added Jun 14, 2017 - 12:23pm
Stone, religion/religious ---- too wide a concept and does not exist anymore!
Paul, good to hear from you again!
Justin Zhao Added Jun 14, 2017 - 2:17pm
Jenifer, insists that ancient Egyptians were monotheists.
 
I explain to Jenifer that Egyptians were Polytheist.
 
Jenifer then proves me right by pointing to Frenchmen 100 years ago when just a little European knowledge of Egypt was getting on the way who were just becoming aware that:
 
Yes indeed, much later Akhenaten decides to be a monotheist and in his reign other lesser gods are besmirched and are supposed to have died and been conquered.
 
After he dies Egypt returns to its old Polytheism.
 
So now Jenifer has to ask themselves - now what?
 
Now what the hell do you do? You now have your ancient Egyptians being polytheists. The one ruler who tries to introduce Monotheism isn't successful and even worse when he dies is despised, his legacy hidden or smashed.
 
How can you reconcile all this? You really can't. Only by mental illness can you make it stay alive in your head. Forcible cognitive dissonance!
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 14, 2017 - 2:49pm
Zhao the idiot racist bigot makes more empty claims with no proof or evidence. One is left to ask themselves who do you trust about the Kemetian faith, an ordained Priestess of the Kemetian faith backed by the word of noted Egyptologists and scholars or a bigoted know-it-all with no credability or resources. I'll leave it to you the reader to decide and determine who is so mentally disturbed that they can't figure out they lost the debate. 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 14, 2017 - 9:40pm
Steve, et al: I agree that we all live within our own inner WORLD. This killer in D.C. lived in his world and sadly his 'dark side' prevailed over his higher nature. My sense is that we 'all' live within TWO inner selves (light and dark). I tend to suppress my 'dark side' because I don't want any of you to think that this side of me lives. But, in reality, I have 'both' a light and a dark side. I call this TWO natures. I could also say TWO inner voices. Suppressing my 'dark side' voice provides me with the control to NOT kill another (except in self defense). But as Steve says, the world works as if 'two wills collide' (both 'wills' think that their will is 'objective' and right). Who can change human nature as we live it? We have lived with dark and light from the beginning. Is our Creator dual? This would be an interesting discussion! D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 15, 2017 - 12:00am
Donald writes "Is our Creator dual?" The Kemetian belief is that the God of the Cosmos is equally light and darkness, although the darkness is natural destruction not evil (which is essentially the absence of the divine). Our vision of the Divine is duality, although our idea of light (creation) and darkness (destruction) is not the same as good and evil. There obviously can be no duality of good and evil in God or elsewhere. Evil is physically like a black hole, absolute absence of the radiance of "light" (God) that is never sated, always mindlessly destroying and wanting more. 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 15, 2017 - 12:16am
Duality is what I perceive also within our Creator. The bigger issue is the issue of The Potter and the clay. 
 
If our Creator is the Potter and I the clay, do I have any real free will? Am I an agent with no ultimate control over my destiny?
 
If an agent, then is my behavior also a result of my Creator's direction? Who is ultimately on control...the Potter or the clay? D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 15, 2017 - 2:29am
It's an interesting question Donald. My faith firmly believes in both free will as well as a God who knows all things, including all things to come. This doesn't necessarily mean predestination but rather simply Divine foreknowledge and what quantum physics calls entanglement.
 
It has been shown in quantum physics that certain subatomic particles can become entangled, wherein the behavior of one results in reaction in the other regardless of how far the two particles are separated (and through an invisible and undetectable almost mystical bond). I believe that there is a certain kind of entanglement between us and God, therefore each connects to the other. But we must align ourselves with the Divine to make this connection. Those who disconnect from the Divine operate outside of His will and may become lost in the world of darkness. For those who connect with the Divine the mind of the Divine is open to them along with infinite knowledge and potential. 
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 15, 2017 - 7:26am
Donald
 
Who is ultimately on control...the Potter or the clay
 
We should get accustomed to the idea that outside of ourselves there is no control. Physics are not a control unit, but merely a system that developed over a time frame of about 4 billion years. Plenty of time to get the machine running smoothly - see nature.
 
We're part of that nature - and we're destroying our part until extinction.
 
The fact that the whole system is so perfect doesn't require there to be a creating or controlling unit. That's HUMAN thinking. WE create and WE control [our environment] (or we think so, anyway). We have to get off HUMAN reasoning when it comes to nature and physics.
Donald Swenson Added Jun 15, 2017 - 4:26pm
SEF: My perception says that my 'words' and 'thoughts' derive from outside myself (mostly). Where do 'words' and 'thought' derive from. My assumption is that there is a Higher Intelligence which provides these 'words' and 'thoughts'. So, to me, the concept of a Creator seems self-evident logic. I comes naturally to my thinking. D
Donald Swenson Added Jun 15, 2017 - 4:28pm
Our founding fathers, Jefferson, Franklin, Washington, Adams, Henry, etc. believed in a Higher Intelligence (called the Creator). It all derives from getting in touch with one's INNER self. D
Donald Swenson Added Jun 15, 2017 - 4:28pm
Jenifer: My logic says that predestination (and/or determinism) is logical. D
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 15, 2017 - 5:23pm
Donald
 
My perception says that my 'words' and 'thoughts' derive from outside myself (mostly
 
Mine come from myself and are a synthesis of what I've heard, read and seen throughout my life.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 15, 2017 - 5:25pm
BTW: Can't talk about founding fathers. We had none, luckily. So we don't have the tendency for heroism. Finally these people also were people like you and me, but luckily not dumb. not poor and at the right time at the right place.
 
Sometimes life is simple.
Donald Swenson Added Jun 15, 2017 - 5:45pm
I think you DERIVE most of your words, SEF. Derive means they come from outside yourself. D
Justin Zhao Added Jun 15, 2017 - 6:09pm
Jenifer (unaware that there are links and records) writes:
 
One is left to ask themselves who do you trust about the Kemetian faith, an ordained Priestess of the Kemetian faith backed by the word of noted Egyptologists and scholars or a bigoted know-it-all with no credability or resources.
 
The noted Egyptologists and scholars you are talking about and linking to fully agreed (and your links verify this) that Egypt was Polytheistic up to the New Kingdom where a single Pharaoh tried to introduce a kind of Monotheism and failed to do so.
 
Your links. The scholars YOU are asking us to look at. The articles copied from Wikipedia but pasted on another website YOU said is better than Wikipedia confirm that.
 
So at this point you are butt-naked with nowhere else to go, cracker.
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 15, 2017 - 6:45pm
Mr. Zhao the liar slander racist continues with his pathetic attempts to slander the Kemetian faith with more lies. Only an uneducated fool can't read basic and unmistakable stuff like " The multiple gods of the Egyptians are only different aspects of the One God, of the Supreme. " and come to any other conclusion except what it says. Zhao lied about Akhenaten who did indeed force his perversion of Monotheism on Egypt (it was only even temporary accepted because Egypt was always monotheistic, but Akhenaten outlawed the temples of the various Netjeru and insisted that his one, singular aspect deity, was the only god thus according to him that Netjeru were false, certainly not aspects of his singular aspect deity (this thus proves Zhao's ridiculous claims disconnected from the quote above about the Netjeru being multiple aspects of God and proves Zhao a liar). Akhenaten for his banning of service to the Netjeru became the only Pharoah ever to have a Coup put against him. He and his traitorous band of followers and priests were driven from Kemet. Akhenaten changed his name to Moses changed the 42 Principles of Maat into his Ten Commandments, his followers became known as the Hebrews and Akhenaten/Moses deity became the one, also singular aspect deity, of the Hebrew Israeli people. Christians stole the multiple aspect God idea from us Kemetians who resumed said practice after Moses was driven out (he was hunted down and killed as a traitor to God by Pharoah Seti I). I have further links to support this all as I have already shown definitely that the ancient Egyptians were monotheistic. I will be happy to provide proof if anyone other than Zhao asks for it. But as Zhao has proven only that he is an asshat troll racist slander who can't even afford to let others look at the facts I presented (he presented NOTHING just typed shit out like his zero reference zero credability words hold any kind of weight) and let the reader decide for themselves. Too much to ask for a fraud like Zhao who has only illogical zero-evidence lies and slanders to offer. 
 
P. S. In a continuous demonstration of Zhao's racist ignorance he ends his rant with the racist insult "cracker" to damn stupid to even use an appropriate racial slur as everyone knows I am a black woman. DUMB AS A ROCK Zhao is a disgrace to even other racists here. Pathetic indeed! 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 15, 2017 - 9:28pm
The concept of Monotheism, for me, starts with old testament scripture. When I read the old testament I discern a Monotheistic Creator or God. The 'name' is not important but the concept of a singular God or Source seems very logical. There are thousands of 'names' for this singular Creator God, but selecting a 'name' does not describe this Source. Thomas Jefferson, our founding father, and author of the Declaration of Independence concluded that the Creator was a singular Source (not multiple sources). Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, and a host of others who were sound thinkers on this issue also concluded that our Creator is singular.
 
This reveals, to me, that there is strong evidence (among many thinkers) that Monotheism is logical and sound. I don't know much about Jenifer's beliefs because I have not studied any of her historical sources. But the idea of Monotheism seems logical and sound to me. Christianity does not really accept a singular Source as their God. Christianity mostly views God as a Trinity (three persons). This, to me and also Thomas Jefferson, is illogical and not well supported historically. 
 
Monotheism does lead to Dualism and the idea that our Creator is equivalent to Providence (determinism of all events). Many of our founding fathers viewed America's founding as part of Providence. D
Donald Swenson Added Jun 15, 2017 - 9:33pm
The Islamic view of our Creator is also based on the idea of Monotheism. Allah is the Source (name) and he/she is Singular. Judaism also has this Monotheistic concept as their Creator. So some 2 billion or more on this planet would lean towards a Monotheistic Creator. If we add Christianity to the mix (and assume that their Trinity is Singular) then we end up with over 4 billion who are Monotheistic. D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 15, 2017 - 10:25pm
I think it's no surprise that I have a rather huge beef with Mr. Zhao. HUGE is putting it mildly. His unprofessional and unprovoked attacks on my culture and heritage are beyond reprehensible. His stupidity beyond anything I've came across since I've been online. Not only does he not understand the basics of debate but he is so immensely disturbed that he doesn't even know the appropriate racial slurs to throw to be an accomplished racist. I'm beginning to think he is some kind of semi-adult teenager living in his mommas basement trolling to be a basic douchebag shit-disturber.
 
But for the record in a debate if you make a claim and are called on it you must either concede defeat or provide reputable references to backup your claim. I did just that, twice, on both my claims about the Ten Commandments and the Netjeru of Kemet. Zhao on the other hand has provided no form of scholarly evidence whatsoever to either debunk my claims, nor none to backup his own. As he has no credability or experience in the area of the debate his evidence-free words carry zero weight in the argument. I am willing to give him one last chance to provide reasonable proof of his claims. If he has none and any honor whatsoever (which is highly doubtful given his racist statements) he should admit as such and walk away. In the very least he should shut up and let others decide based on the evidence I (and I alone) provided who and what they which to believe. Either way if he continues as is this can do nothing but further descend into a meaningless flame war which would prove he is nothing but a useless troll.
 
So the ball is in your court Zhao, last chance. Put up or shut up. I believe we all have had more than our fill of your bullshit. It's time to move on and let others decide which of us to believe if you have nothing more to offer except your personal nonsense. 
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 15, 2017 - 10:30pm
Donald I believe Christianity adopted the multi-aspect (in their case 3 aspect) God from Kemet. Wherein all the Kemetian Netjeru are considered aspects of the One God three in particular are venerated as Supremely Holy the Holy Trinity of Osiris, Isis, and Horus which corispond to the Christian Trinity as well as Isis and Horus corispond to the Virgin Mary and Jesus. 
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 15, 2017 - 10:41pm
Donald my belief is very much against predestination. It would take away free will and make punishment of evil injustice. Entanglement makes much more sense to me. It's more a complex idea but God is complex in many ways beyond our understanding. God knowing our future does not equal predestination.
 
It's like you watched a movie documentary and know the outcome because you seen it before. Because it is a documentary and not scripted (preordained) neither you nor anyone predestined the outcome, but to someone who doesn't understand that you already seen it it could appear as if you did because of your foreknowledge. Time is very complicated but I believe that the past, present, and future all coexist at the same time in God's perception. He is beyond time as we perceive it. So he always has the insight into everyone's future, but that's not the same as controlling it, although those that work with the Divine co-create their destiny via divine entanglement. Anyhow that's my understanding of the matter. 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 15, 2017 - 11:06pm
Jenifer: What is your view on prophecy? I, personally, am a believer in prophetic events. I read the old testament, the new testament, and especially the book of Revelation (a prophetic book about events being determined). 
 
The apostle John wrote Revelation and if one believes this revelation it becomes a prophecy of events that have happened, and will happen. This implies that events are determined and/or predestined by our Creator source.
 
Prophecy implies that providence creates our ultimate reality. You or I can not create events beyond what we think (as individuals). But if our thinking derives from the spiritual realm, then the concept of prophecy and determinism is logical. It appears that most of the prophets, including Jesus, Mohammad, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Moses, David, and many others prophecized about events yet to happen.
 
In fact some of our founding fathers (of America) believed that our country was an event of 'providence' (determined). Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson seemed to think this and publicly said so. What is your view on this idea of 'prophecy'? D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 16, 2017 - 3:02am
Donald I believe in prophets and prophecy. There were several noted Kemetian prophets in our religious texts as well. 
 
I do not believe John had anything to do with Revelations nor do I consider it legitimate prophecy. The oldest copy comes hundreds of years after John's death, written in a language he never knew in a writing style alien to him. It introduced Pagan elements such as mythical beasts (multi-headed dragons) and an anti-christ (anti-God/multiple gods) concepts. I believe it was written by elders in the early Church of Rome as scare/conversation propaganda and nothing more. It says a lot that characters like this mythical paganized "anti-christ" figure are not mentioned anywhere else in the entire Bible or Tanaka (or the Islamic Koran either). 
 
Furthermore thus far no supposed "prophecies" have Revelations have ever came to pass and I would be eternity shocked if any ever do. For one in the scriptures of my faith God has no equal or challengers to play the anti-christ/anti-God role and there is no prophecy of end times other than the possibility of Mankind ourselves destroying the earth our home and dooming ourselves to oblivion. We believe in no devils or similar ultimate evil intelligence characters, who, if they even existed would be insane to plot against an infinite and indestructible God. To me the ideas conveyed in Revelations are ludicrous and cartoonist, beyond rationale or meaning. 
 
But the idea of prophets is easy to understand. It's people who work in unison with the Divine. Their connection allows them to virtually see through the eyes of the Divine and as mentioned before to God time is all happening concurrent past, present and future at the same time so seeing the future is nothing more than seeing the now to a genuine prophet gifted with Divine vision. 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 16, 2017 - 1:01pm
So you reject Revelation. What about the book of Daniel?
 
Daniel is loaded with prophetic events...from chapter 2 to 12. Supposedly, Daniel received his visions from YHWH.
 
If​ you also reject Daniel then you might as well reject all prophets. Have you read the book of Daniel? 
D
Donald Swenson Added Jun 16, 2017 - 1:05pm
The fact that John's vision in Revelation was documented much after his death on Patmos, does not mean (necessarily) that the vision is anathema. All the symbolism can be interpreted using old testament Scriptures. D
Donald Swenson Added Jun 16, 2017 - 1:07pm
I agree that there can be no Challenge to the ONE singular Creator. D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 16, 2017 - 2:33pm
Donald I believe that there is merit in the other Bible prophecies, just not Revelations, for the reasons I mentioned above. The Bible is a complex book but Revelations just doesn't fit with rest or the ideas of the Divine as a perceive them.
 
If you look at it objectively it is very much out of place, as if man being limited needed to also put limits on God (such as with all the endings). God does not have an ending nor his creation an expiration date, that's human thinking.
 
Things will change but, certain things are going to remain a constant in our universe otherwise it would become stagnant and meaningless. I can't see God pushing the material plane of existence into such a direction, it would negate our universe's reason for existence as well as our own and throw the entire Cosmos out of whack. Everything is as it is for a reason, the Cosmos is not a grand mistake that needs fixing. 
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 16, 2017 - 2:42pm
Jenifer
 
God does not have an ending nor his creation an expiration date, that's human thinking.
 
The universe does not have an ending nor an expiration date.
 
That's universal thinking.
 
And the word "creation" itself points to human thinking. You can't "create" something out of nothing. I'd say the universe always was and always will be - in one form or another. Independently of a "god" which people believe in, living on one of about 1'000'000'000'000'000'000'000'000'000'000'000'000'000'000'000'000 planets ;-)
 
We're simply not intelligent enough to understand the concept of physics and nature without a superior force having to do with it, because it's so PERFECT. We can't even imagine what a billion years are. Huch much time that is and what is possible to happen in such a long time. Perfection doesn't happen overnight. And we're about the most imperfect species there is seeing the way we destroy our own base of existence.
 
Homo Sapiens is UNDER CONSTRUCTION. Hope we will give nature time to get to a Homo Intellectus in about a million years LOL
 
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 16, 2017 - 2:43pm
BTW: "Time" is not the same everywhere ;-)
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 16, 2017 - 2:44pm
Huch much = How much.
 
See how imperfect I am. ;-)
Donald Swenson Added Jun 16, 2017 - 6:35pm
Yes, Jenifer, the Cosmos is not a mistake. Also, our Creator does not have an ending.
 
The vision of John, however, does not change the NOW (our real time living). His vision revolves around the idea that a System ends...and a New System begins. An AGE ends and a new age begins. Daniel's vision of the Statue (head of Gold, breast of Silver, etc.) was similar.
 
Our Creator has a plan and purpose for his CLAY (you and I). This plan gets revealed gradually as the human race lives out their destiny. D
Donald Swenson Added Jun 16, 2017 - 6:37pm
SEF: I would challenge your conception of TIME. Time does not exist. We all live our lives in the NOW... and successive moments of now. D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 16, 2017 - 7:04pm
Time does exist. Einstein showed us how it and gravity interact with General Realitivity. Time slows under gravitational pull, it slows noticeably around black holes the gravity is so immense. It takes a exact set amount of time for light to travel. At great distances we only observe the past. When astronauts went to the moon there was a notable time delay of several minutes before their radio transmissions could reach them, or ours reach them. The light from. from the sun takes twelve minutes to reach the earth even at light speed. And distant stars are all seen in their past. Light from them takes hundreds or thousands of years to reach us. All we see of them is their old photographs. Some have died long ago but their light still shines here as if they were still burning. At very distant observation (billions of light years) time appears to bend based on if the observer is moving towards the distant object or away, either the objects past or future can be observed respectively. Thus the past and future are set realitys, which is why the Divine can observe both seeing all things. If the past and future were did not exist no one and nothing could observe them yet we know this is not the case. 
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 16, 2017 - 7:06pm
The age we are in will end but not as Revelations describes because it foretells stagnation, the end of human evolution. This is not the plan of the Divine but rather the opposite of that. 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 16, 2017 - 8:10pm
Revelation, to me, Jenifer, reveals that the NEW AGE emerging begins as the old age ends. The circle is completed. There is no stagnation that I discern.
 
With respect to time you said: Time slows under gravitational pull, it slows noticeably around black holes the gravity is so immense. It takes a exact set amount of time for light to travel. At great distances we only observe the past.
 
I would differ, Jenifer. 'Time' needs to be separated from 'motion'. I rotate with the planet at 1000 m.p.h. I revolve around the Sun at 67,000 m.p.h. I revolve around the Milky Way at 550,000 m.p.h. All this happens in the NOW moment (simultaneously and continually). Where is 'time' during this motion? Time is always a NOW conception (within me)! Time is an inner notion! Time is a metaphysical concept! Time is a spiritual idea!
 
Motion, however, happens as I live in the NOW moment. I rotate, revolve, and move in all kinds of directions (simultaneously and continually). All this 'motion' is real and discernible. Time, however, is purely 'inner'. There is no such 'thing' as TIME. We created the concept of 'time' to give us order (mostly for farming and seasons).
Donald Swenson Added Jun 16, 2017 - 8:16pm
Time does not 'slow under gravitational pull'. An 'object' affected by gravity can 'slow'...but 'time' is always a NOW experience. There is no slowing or speeding up of 'time'. 
 
Frequencies (photons) are measured from the Sun to the Earth. The clock time is around 8 minutes. This is a calculation based on a prior 'invention' of this concept called 'time' (days, hours, minutes, seconds). In reality, 'time' is not a photon or a frequency. Time is an 'inner' notion...a subjective unit of consciousness. 
 
Time is similar to this economic concept called 'value'. It is 'inner' and 'subjective' at the core. I would suggest that these concepts are best described as 'units of consciousness' (spirit phenomena). D
 
 
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 16, 2017 - 8:30pm
Donald I completely disagree with you on time, as does every single physicist on earth. I'm sorry but as a Kemetian we are taught to embrace science as a gift from God. I do, and therefore I embrace the science of time. I would no sooner reject science as you apparently do for this weird metaphysical anti-science, than I would reject logic, reason, or God who created them to help us understand the universe. I find it is false "gods", and their teachers who push anti-science, and thus anti-God ideologies. I reject them for what they are. Unsupported irrational nonsense. 
 
As for Revelations it describes a stagnant docile inert human society devoid of evolution or progress. This is also anti-God, part of the teachings of the Demiurge, a false "god". I want no part of it. 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 16, 2017 - 8:38pm
The great thing about dialogue is that we do not need to AGREE on everything. We can 'agree to disagree' on some issues. You have a great mind.
 
Some time you might check out the website of Peter Russell (www.peterrussell.com). He was a scientist and is now a philosopher (he promotes non-dualism). Scientists are now changing much of their thinking as new experiences emerge in our interconnected internet age. The ideas you present are being rejected by many scientists. Another good website to check out is: www.closertotruth.com. Scientists from all over the planet are being interviewed about issues like we have discussed. Enjoy! D
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 16, 2017 - 9:10pm
Donald
 
Time does not exist
 
Time varies according to our perceptions and definitions. Earth has defined movements which define our time whereas in outer space time does not exist.
 
And - strictly seen there is no NOW. NOW would be an unrecognizable nanosecond which has passed already when we notice it. There is only past and future - no present.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 16, 2017 - 9:11pm
WTF...getting out of the subject again, oh well ;-)
Donald Swenson Added Jun 16, 2017 - 10:49pm
SEF, I view the Now as reality. The past is a Now memory. The future is a Now expectation.
 
I live my life as successive moments of now. D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 16, 2017 - 11:41pm
Donald then yes, we will indeed have to agree to disagree on these issues. Because as a Kemetian I accept the space-time continuum as theorized by Albert Einstein in General Relitivity and elaborated on in Quantum Physics, documented and proven as scientific fact in observation of atomic clocks started at the same time but shown to display divergence as their velocities relative to one another changed. This and of course the common sense observations of distorted time and of the past and future as I previously mentioned can only logical be explained fully by those aforementioned universally accepted scientific theories and laws, which I assure you that no creditable mainstream scientists are rejecting. I keep very much abreast on science and nothing you have floated here is being brought up seriously by professionals anywhere. Essentially all the accepted theories and scientific laws of the last few hundred years would have to be thrown out for you to be correct. No offense but I'm not buying it. Like my mother use to say, if it doesn't make sense, it isn't true.
 
Additionally the Kemetian creation story in the second of the Books of Foundation (Cosmogenesis) specifically mentions a time before time ("Before the beginning there was κενότητα και τίποτα - emptiness which became το άπειρο - the infinite - and then there was άπειρο φως - creation"), there could not be a before time without time. Actually even God couldn't know the future if it didn't exist. Most convincing to me though is the fact that time is specifically is mentioned in the creation story as a basic element of the universe
("In this manner He fashioned the world of nature (physis), whose main elements are time (chronos), space (kenos) and change (rheos).
Out of space was formed matter (hyle), and from this the He formed, from the distorted patterns on the Katapetasma, the cosmos and all living creatures including, on this world, man.") to me this is the deciding information because it is dogmatic scripture, which supported by all mainstream science, is what I shall believe.
 
As a Kemetian I find Revelations offensive because we Kemetians understand the purpose of humanity is as individuals and as a species to be Ascension. That is one day in the very distant future (many thousands or even millions of years according to prophecies), we will evolve spiritually, physically, and intellectually to a high plane of existence and become beings of pure energy like the Netjeru. One step closer to the Divine. This closeness of Perfection can not be gifted, anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar and a deceiver. Perfection and even Ascension can not be achieved by stagnation which is akin to spiritual death in Kemetian teachings. The supposed future purpose of humanity according to Revelations is to become stagnant mindless worshipers. Sounds like Hell to me, and again it's anathema to core Kemetian teachings regarding our very purpose in the universe.
 
Oh, and we Kemetians have no "devil" or Satan (which is just a no name title anyway) in Kemetian theology. The Demiurge is the closest thing to that, he would authorize something as anti-God as I see Revelations to be, which is why I believe it is his handiwork. So yes we will agree to disagree on these things.
 
Have a good weekend.
 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 17, 2017 - 12:01am
Jenifer, I appreciate you explaining your philosophy. I can discern that you believe your beliefs. I can buy into some but must reject much.
 
Have you read the book of Job? The Most High welcomes Satan for a conversation and then an operation or assignment. Satan is merely a servant of the Most High but plays a role in our universe.
 
My beliefs derive from my experiences and also my view of our Creator God. You have derived different conclusions based on your experiences and culture. So be it. We can agree to disagree on issues.
 
It is positive to comprehend where you are coming from​. I now better understand your beliefs. 
 
My beliefs are not cast in stone but I have developed a comprehensive philosophy. I am comfortable with what I believe and what I view as my core principles of reality. I assume you feel likewise about your beliefs. 
 
Thanks for sharing your thinking, Jenifer. You have a great mind. D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 17, 2017 - 8:21pm
Thanks for your comments Donald. Just for the record, my objective is not to persuade you or anyone else to adopt my beliefs, but rather just to share and explain where I'm coming from. 
 
As for Job yes I'm actually very familiar with that book. My father is a historian and Biblical expert, he has traced the original names of all the various "Satans" of the Bible from the manuscripts in their original Hebrew and other languages. Of the various Satans there are Pagan gods, the Netjeru Set (the New Testament Satan excluding Revelations), numerous demons from several nations, and one angel, the Satan of Job is the angel Sammeal which means the Poison of God. He is God's heavenly prosecuter. His only Biblical appearance is in the book of Job. Incidentally Satan means Adversary. There are even occasionals of humans being referred to as "Satans" because they are Adversaries. Also of note is the fact that the name Lucifer never appeared in the original Old Testament. It couldn't. It's a Greek name of a Greek Pagan deity. The same way the early Church of Rome put Revelations into the Bible they likewise added in the name Lucifer in the Old Testament. A name from a language that didn't even exist at that time. 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 17, 2017 - 8:59pm
Jenifer: What is your view on the Satan of this book, called Job? Is this a servant of the Most High who did what was outlined in Job, chapter 1 and 2? I have never heard of this angel called Sammeal. Can you explain where this originated and why your father thinks this is the Satan of Job? If so, what difference does it make?
 
Your claim that Revelation (this vision of John the apostle of Yeshua) who wrote from the island of Patmos is bogus, needs more revelation. Why do you claim that it is bogus or irrelevant? I have read the entire book and find much of it meaningful (especially the first 6 chapters). Chapter 4 and 5 gives us a image of the Throne Room of the Most High. It reveals that none are worthy and that the Lamb will execute the seven seals (judgment)...yet to happen!  Do you have any hard evidence that these words are not from John or that the book is bogus? D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 17, 2017 - 9:48pm
Actually you got it backwards Donald. I don't have to provide any hard evidence that Revelations was not written by John, that's called a logical fallacy, proving a negative (which is also impossible) being that you and other Christians make the claim that Revelations was written by John it is on you to provide proof of your claim. I see none. I see a book from the 4th century CE (Hundreds of years after John lived) written in a language he never knew in a style alien to his prior writing. May as well attribute the Harry Potter novels to John, it's ridiculous. Plus the Pagan elements alone make Jewish and non-Christian theologians like myself laugh. Multi headed dragons? The deification of evil through an evil god/anti-God/anti Christ figure? None of this is consistent with the rest of scripture. The whole thing reads like bad fantasy with a shallow cliche ending--everyone lives happily ever after, but trapped in a pointless material world existence, bad guys are defeated, but unless they are themselves on par with the (false) "God" of Revelations why were they even a threat to this "God" to begin with? I'm not buying it. You make the claim it's from John, I want to see the proof as is yours it is to provide in a logical debate. 
 
Oh and my father knows that is the name of the Satan from Job because that's what is written in the Hebrew texts. How do you pretend to study a religious text in languages other than the original it was written in? I only study Kemetian texts in the original Kemetian (Ancient Egyptian) language and Ancient Greek for the latter writings. Job's "Satan" is only Satan in English and other translations. In the original Hebrew it's Sammeal. The difference it makes is Sammeal being an angel is a servant of God. Other than Set in the New Testament (except Revelations) all the others are just minor Adversaries (mostly demons, like Azazel for instance). Note that the Satan of Revelations is the only one in the entire Bible that doesn't have a real name, just the generic title. That's another way that Revelations differs from legitimate Biblical texts. You really trust the early Church of Rome to be trustworthy? The same liars who put Lucifer into the Old Testament? You realize besides producing this mysterious text that no one ever heard of before supposedly from John several hundred years after his death (& verified by absolutely no witnesses) the same "honest" and "holy" people excluded all of the Gospels except four. Why four? Because four is a sacrate number for PAGANS (represents the four Pagan elements). Have you ever tracked down and read the other Gospels or other Biblical books they excluded. Far more enlightening than the bad fiction they wrote and attributed falsely to John. Of course maybe you have some proof it was written by John since that is your claim, can you provide proof of it? The evidence that I've seen sure doesn't support that wild conclusion.  
Donald Swenson Added Jun 18, 2017 - 12:02am
Jenifer: I have no proof for any of my beliefs. In fact, I agree that much of scripture and past writings could be false and could have been written by believers who merely thought that prior writings were from one of the apostles. Revelations could be bogus. My sense, however, is that it is not (at least not all of it). But again, that is my view and opinion and I can not prove anything to you or anyone.
 
Yeshua was supposedly the Messiah or Christ, yet he wrote nothing down. The words in scripture could be bogus and I would not know it. So, yes, I have zero proof for any of my beliefs (including Revelation, Job, Daniel, the old and new testament, etc.. I still read scripture for valuable wisdom and for prophecies which I think might have relevance for today. 
 
It sounds, to me, that the Satan of Job (if called Sammeal in Hebrew) does not change the message of Job. Sammeal would be the Adversary (a spirit adversary) who can destroy and kill by entering the consciousness of people. I sense that this happens today. This means (to me) that Satan is a real Adversary today and works upon the 'inner' being of people (their consciousness).
 
So, yes, don't expect any proofs from me. My philosophy is based on NOW...and successive moments of NOW. Reality, for me, is a NOW experience and I live my life as Now, Now, Now, Now, Now, ...daily and forever. When you think of my opinions think of them as 'subjective' and 'singular' (with no proof provided). D
Donald Swenson Added Jun 18, 2017 - 12:07am
My model from history is Socrates. Socrates went out in the marketplace and asked 'questions'. He discovered that people (generally) don't know what they 'think' they know. His peers thought he was corrupting the youth and decided to kill him. He ended up drinking a hemlock brew to end his life. But Socrates, to me, had what I view as a sound philosophy. Life, to him, started with a 'question' and ended with a 'question'. The unexamined life is not worth living was his mantra. He view himself as immortal and did not view death as final. I have a similar view of reality. D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 18, 2017 - 7:03pm
My point on Job was that Sammeal being an angel of God is clearly NOT an adversarial figure. Thus the "satan" label regarding him is a mistranslation. He serves God's will at God's pleasure. Just because you as a human cannot either understand his purpose and mission or disprove of it does not change the fact that Sammeal is a soldier of the Divine doing His will. It is not our place as mortals to judge God (or His messengers) which is what this strikes me as.
 
My other point about this was, as with the other examples given, this proves one can't trust modern English translations of ancient texts. No where in Tanaka or Torah in the original Hebrew is the word Satan used as a proper noun, always proper true names are given when referring to angels, demons, powers and principalities. The same is true for the original ancient Greek in the New Testament, Satan is never found used as a proper noun, only ever used as a pronoun in the original languages. Satan is a title not a proper name, ever, period. May as well refer to the Queen of England as "Queen" genericly. It's ignorant and worst, deceptive. 
 
Ultimately there is little to no value in studying ancient texts in modern language translations. If one is serious about whatever faith they claim to follow, or historical studies, one owes it to themselves (& their God if appropriate) to learn the necessary ancient languages and study the ancient texts only in their original words. This is what I have done, as my father before me, my husband as a Kemetian Priest as well. It just takes some time and dedication, but the reward is well worth it. No serious in depth mystical revelations can be gleaned by taking shortcuts. 
 
As to the notion of spiritual beings entering one's consciousness, this can only happen in one of two ways. Either by inviting such an entity in, or involuntary in the case of those with weak wills (which includes mental illness) who allow themselves knowingly or otherwise to be associated with a place or object that is tied to a dark entity. Only a dark entity like a demon would enter the consciousness of someone against their will because servants of the Divine respect free will. Using a Spirit Board ("Ouji Board") is a "great" way to achieve this, if one is stupid enough to desire such a ridiculous idiotic thing. Spirit Boards open gates to the Astra plane and allow indiscriminate beings to interact with the users. Very dangerous and dumb. Anyhow other than idiotic nonsense like that or roaming haunted places random possessions are pretty rare and always evil spirits. 
 
As a Kemetian I accept the doctrinal religious texts of the Kemetian faith as absolute, but I have a fairly open mind regarding other things spiritual as long as it doesn't speak counter to the scriptures or is otherwise illogical or anti-scientific. Logic and science are cornerstones to Kemetian belief. Ours is a living faith and believes heavily in personal mystical experience. The Christ was the example and opened the way for us to Ascension and the afterlife, but we must do our own personal work for ourselves to get there. 
 
I am very much in agreement with the Platonic schools of philosophy, as far as that goes. That's where the term "Demiurge" comes from. In Kemetian teachings he has no known name, because speaking it is dangerous as it can attract his malicious powers. Like the serpent demon prince Apep these dark entities usually have various names, and it’s always best to avoid using any of them spoken especially but even in print. Words can have power, so we use titles for such beings. Satan, Demiurge, even Apep are titles, not proper names. That's why the ancient texts with the proper names are treated as dangerous and treated as such. And in the case of certain powerful evil even in the original writings the names are omitted. But it's always understood why and obvious. In respect for the power of the Divine in Jewish manuscripts even the name of God is not written (but rather written as "G-d"). Similar is done regarding powerful dark beings. 
 
As to regarding "immortality" the flesh dies, and in that way we are mortal. Kemetians believe in soul death for the most monsterious of evil. Since this is a possibility for anyone, we like to say that immorality is earned, even if it just by not doing monsterious deeds. For those of us who serve God through His messengers the Netjeru after death there is a judgment based on the full accounting of the deeds of one's life. If one's deeds are mostly good they go on to paradise for a time of reflection, rest, and rejuvenation. After which they reincarnate and continue their spiritual journey. If one's deeds are mostly evil they are sent to a Hell world of punishment until they have paid for their own mistakes and sins. Then they too return to the world of the living to try again. After enough
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 18, 2017 - 7:04pm
(continued) 
After enough times around the life-death cycle one may reach Enlightenment and achieve Ascension to a higher level of existence and higher plane of being. That is the goal for us Kemetians. We do accept other religions and other ways of belief in others so long as they accept us. We are only intolerant of the intolerant, bigots, and those who claim there's is the only way and everyone else is "wrong."
Donald Swenson Added Jun 18, 2017 - 8:04pm
Jenifer: Thanks for your explanations. I view your beliefs as totally valid for you and would not suggest that they are not valid. It is obvious that you have strong beliefs. Since I view reality as subjective, I can not criticize anyone who views reality different from myself. I am always uncertain (to a degree) and my view is similar to Socrates...the more I know the more I know that I don't know!
 
Given the above mantra (of mine), I would suggest that a title (like Satan) or a name (like Sammeal) can be used interchangeably. If I am Chairman of the Board and Donald, you can address me with a title or personal name and both would work. In my Bible, Job uses words like these "Now there was a day when the sons of God (YHWH) came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them". YHWH said to Satan, wence have you come? Satan said ' from going to and fro on the earth'. 
 
The above suggests (to me) that the word 'Satan' can be either a title and/or a name and in my Bible YHWH (the LORD) seems to use it as a name (per above). It may also be viewed as a title. Anyway, the message in my Bible (per my interpretation) is that Satan (Sammeal to you) is reporting to the LORD and doing the will of the LORD. His assignment is hedged by this Creator God. He then goes and destroys all of Job's children, their houses, Job's animals, etc. The means is not given (fully) but since Satan is a spirit being it would seem logical that Satan (the Adversary) could use others (by entering their consciousness) to accomplish his goals. Satan then creates mental and physical issues for Job which also could be viewed as involuntary actions that were not expected by Job (nor did he allow this to happen to him via his freewill). 
 
If my interpretation is valid, then I would suggest that Satan (Sammeal to you) could play this same role today on this planet called Earth. The LORD (YHWH) could choose to treat me in a similar manner as he did to Job...if he so chooses. This means that I am a victim not a principal. I am 'at effect' not 'at cause'. How would you interpret this ordeal within the book of Job? Do you have a different interpretation? D
Donald Swenson Added Jun 18, 2017 - 8:18pm
With respect to the vision of John in the book of Revelation, I would suggest that we can not prove who actually wrote these words. The manuscript evidence has been destroyed and only copies of copies can be documented. The onus is on the reader to discern if the vision has meaning and relevance. 
 
To me, this book has important meaning and relevance (as of today). I find that the vision seems logical and the messages to the churches and then the events to happen during a tribulation period seem relevant and probably yet to happen. I call this potential prophecy. Naturally, I could be deceived and unaware of my deception. This is possible. But who actually wrote the words are less important to me than the message being conveyed.
 
My sense is that some of the symbolism is exotic and there is no way to create an objective story from all this symbolism. But the first six chapters seem to convey a message that is logic and relevant for human beings today. At least for me. After all, human nature is similar today as whenever this book was written. So you can dismiss this book and I would not criticize you for doing this, but at the same time I could derive meaning from this book (for my view of reality). We could both be 'right'??? D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 18, 2017 - 8:18pm
In short my interpretation of Job is that God used Sammeal to test Job. Sammeal was therefore no more a satan than any other angel of God (unless one considers God to be an Adversary/Satan). And again, in the original Hebrew Tanaka Sammeal is never called Satan in Job. As I said modern English translations are useless and corrupted. 
 
And for the record, no where in Job does it mention or infer that Sammeal "entered Job's consciousness" or otherwise possessed him. Something like this would never happen for two reasons, one, an angel of God never acts against the free will of man (wouldn't be much of a test like that anyhow). Number two, an angel as powerful as Sammeal would produce so much thermo-electric energy that if he tried to enter a human in anyway it would cause SHC (Spontaneous Human Combustion). Since Job didn't die bursting into flames one can be fairly certain this did not happen. 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 18, 2017 - 8:22pm
And we could both also be 'wrong'??? D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 18, 2017 - 8:23pm
Not exactly regarding Revelations specifically, but my take (& the official Kemetian view) on other religious beliefs is that many if not most contain some truth, and may in fact have a basis in reality. This is why we do not Condemn non-Kemetian beliefs so long as they are themselves tolerant of other beliefs besides their own. 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 18, 2017 - 8:46pm
Your interpretation seems unconvincing to me, Jenifer. But if my version of scripture is not accurate, then I would agree that my interpretation could also be inaccurate. But given my Bible and its words, I must disagree with your interpretation. To me, Job, was a victim and a test...which was initiated by the Most High God (using a spirit son called Satan as the means). Since this spirit being works 'spirit to spirit' it makes sense (to me) that Job's inner spirit (consciousness) was violated. He did not have any freewill in this test/situation IMO. D
Donald Swenson Added Jun 18, 2017 - 8:47pm
How could Job suffer mental and physical issues without the mind and body being violated? D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 18, 2017 - 9:13pm
Donald you seem to be of the belief that God would violate an individuals' free will. Or by actions of His servants allow for such. All I can tell you is that such a thing is absolutely against core Kemetian concepts of the One God. Any "god" that would behave in such a fundamentally evil and unconsciable way is not the God I serve or would ever. We Kemetians are taught that God has several indisputably Holy characteristics, Truth, Justice and Balance are the three primary virtues. Justice is impossible without free will. Therefore any being acting against the free will of another can not be God or in His service. 
 
In the end Job was tested by God's servant, Job passed the test through his own faith and free will. Job was restored to his former glory and much more in the afterlife. I don't really see what is questionable here. 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 18, 2017 - 9:55pm
You say: In the end Job was tested by God's servant, Job passed the test through his own faith and free will.
 
What I read, Jenifer, is clear to me. The Most High 'allowed' Satan to violate Job's freewill. Are you saying that the Most High has no power to act in this manner? This would make the Most High my/your servant (not the other way around). I don't think your logic would stand up with others reading this scripture.
 
The Most High Creator is the 'Potter' and I am the clay. This seems clear in scripture and our history. I can not subvert the WILL of a Higher Source. If the 'Potter' desires that my freewill be violated so be it. I have no choice in the matter. This is how I interpret this story.
 
Yes, Job, was restored to a fulfilled level later. But he lost his first family, all his first wealth, his health, and his mental integrity for a season. The Most High then challenged him when he complained with words which made Job repent and accept all that had happened to him. 
 
It's a humbling story which I believe actually happened. D
 
This is my interpretation, Jenifer. You have a right to yours! D
 
 
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 18, 2017 - 10:08pm
Yes and my interpretation is Sammael did as he was instructed by God, he tested Job, nothing more. Job suffered but eventually passed. No one's free will was violated. I can't see how you think otherwise. A test is not a violation of free will, you have a very strange interpretation of free will being violated. Job's flesh is not his free will or his spirit. 
 
But to answer your question does God essentially have the power to violate his own covenant with humanity and do evil (which is what you are suggesting). Yes, but he would no longer be God, he would become something else, something unknown and sinister and the very foundation of the Cosmos would implode. This is akin to asking if God can make a rock too heavy for him to lift. God doesn't play silly games like this or corner himself into treacherous situations. 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 18, 2017 - 11:57pm
Jenifer: Let's assume that I am Job. The last event I want is for God to kill my family and destroy all my wealth. My freewill would not allow God to do this to me (with my approval). This is beyond any desire that I might want. Yet this is precisely what God did to me (I am Job in this scenario). God killed my family of 10 children, my servants, all my goats, camels, etc. and burned down my children's house, etc.
 
God then left me with unbearable mental pain and sickness which brought me to near death (Satan was not allowed to kill me). This set of events was certainly not part of my freewill or my doing. This was God revealing to me that he is GOD ALMIGHTY, the Creator of the Universe (including me). I could curse God and die or I could accept that a Higher Creator was demonstrating his Sovereignty and Power (Job would not curse God during this whole ordeal). Job's wife, however, recommended that he curse God and die. Jenifer: God is Potter and I am Clay. That seems to be the message!!! D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 19, 2017 - 12:10am
To me the message is faith in God will always win out. Maybe not immediately, or even in this lifetime, but eventually faith when tested has it's reward. Also tests are often not voluntary, but you always have the free will to wash out. 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 19, 2017 - 12:40am
Can't buy into your interpretation but I also recognize that my view is based on my subjective assumptions. I certainly hope God does not make me similar to Job. But God is Creator, not me. D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 19, 2017 - 12:48am
There is a saying, God never tests you more than you can handle. 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 19, 2017 - 12:54am
Jenifer: WE agree on that! This gives me hope! D
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 20, 2017 - 12:53pm
faith when tested has it's reward
 
When "faith" means thinking that "god" wants to do us good, and then we DO good, we will be rewarded. True - but this also works out without "god". You will be rewarded in THIS lifetime, though. There's no other one which can be experienced, because NO existence is possible without a supporting body. Cars don't run without motor.
 
The only thing I could possibly agree on when "god" would be defined as "empathy". No more no less.
Donald Swenson Added Jun 20, 2017 - 6:09pm
SEF: Prior to being chosen for enlightenment...on the issue of a Higher Intelligence, I could not respond. My experience has been that I live my life from day to day and if God enters my consciousness, then I can respond to this encounter. I can not access this H.I. on my own. The enlightenment must come from the Logos/Source first. I then can respond. D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 20, 2017 - 6:23pm
All I can say is that I have past life experiences and after life experiences. I have no fear of death because, been there, done that, and I have the memories of those experiences to guide me. 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 20, 2017 - 7:11pm
And from where did you get your life experiences, Jenifer? I think I know your view. I would agree. D
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 21, 2017 - 4:02pm
if God enters my consciousness, then I can respond to this encounter
 
I'm probably too pragmatic to get into hallucinations or self-hypnosis. I like dreams, though. I never dream of existing people or places, I often fly, that's fun. Seeing myself lifting up (apparently I have no body) and right above the clouds, flying over landscapes, walking through towns I've never seen and talking to people that don't exist. Playing instruments with shapes that are so weird that they couldn't produce a tone. Once I saw a truck stopping at night, a black guy driver stepped out and said "I'm your father".
 
Then he went back and drove away. Or I walk a street that was my way to school (a rare part of reality), but suddenly it ended at a lake that does not exist as well...
 
I have thousands of dreams like that, mostly they happen in the early morning when I'm halfway awake but doze on.
 
Often I get the message. I look for something I lost but I can't find it. I walk, check out, but no way. I search buildings, offices where people work, they don't notice me. In the end, the dream stops and I feel relieved that it was a dream, because that search stressed me.
 
In reality I don't look for something. But there HAS to be something I'm not conscious of.
 
That's about as heavy my dreams get. I never crash when flying or am in danger otherwise.
 
That's "god" for me. My unknown brain that knows and feels so much more than I'm aware of.
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 21, 2017 - 6:00pm
I must have some extraordinary dreams is one is trying to interpret my past life memories as dreams. My memories include the accurate spoken and written full knowledge of five ancient languages including Hebrew, ancient Greek and ancient Egyptian, all of which I was able to communicate in by age two with no prior instruction (in this lifetime). After my parents taught me English I taught them the ancient tongues. If that's not recollection of previous life knowledge then I must be some kind of demigod able to pull information from thin air. I always accept the more reasonable and logical explanation, past life recollection seems to be more rational than the alternative idea. 
Donald Swenson Added Jun 21, 2017 - 6:14pm
I have the view that my inner self is spiritual and this means (for me) that words, images, dreams, ideas, all derive from this spiritual realm (ultimately). I am a servant not a principal. I am an agent not an originator. I am 'at effect' and not 'at cause'. This means that a Higher Source is real to me. The God of Job in scripture seems like the God of our Universe (to me). What do you think? D
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 22, 2017 - 11:26pm
"I am a servant not a principal. I am an agent not an originator. I am 'at effect' and not 'at cause'." 
I am both. 
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 23, 2017 - 5:19pm
Jenifer
 
My memories include the accurate spoken and written full knowledge of five ancient languages including Hebrew, ancient Greek and ancient Egyptian, all of which I was able to communicate in by age two with no prior instruction (in this lifetime).
 
Huh ?? I guess you won't be angry when I have problems to believe that :-)
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 23, 2017 - 10:59pm
Doesn't matter Stone-Eater, it's been documented by my parents and teachers. I speak 7 languages and am learning a 8th (Japanese) currently. But only English and Russian (& now Japanese) did I have to learn. People who know me know that I never lie. 
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 25, 2017 - 5:16am
Jenifer
 
Wow. Chapeau ! I'm only at 3, German, French and English. Although I do also speak a bit Italian, Bambara (the language of my wife) and Wolof (Senegal).
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Jun 26, 2017 - 11:19pm
Well I sort of cheated, or at least I got a head start :-) 
Plus there is not a lot of call for Ancient Egyptian, Ancient Greek, Latin, or Cannannite. At least Hebrew is still in use. I learned Russian from a Russian friend back in high school (and completed my knowledge of Russian through a college course on it). I'm taking a internet course on Japanese (Rosetta Stone) plus my husband who is Japanese is helping me learn it. Knowing Japanese is kind of a must for us video game designers. 
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 27, 2017 - 8:30pm
Ah ok I see.
 
The second name of my oldest daughter is Sayonara. Reckoned when she's older she'll like that. She does. She calls herself Sayo ;-)

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