Patriotic Millionaires

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Finally a really good news story.  A bunch of very wealthy people, almost all millionaires have decided the economic path of the US is not good and not sustainable.  They believe that a strong middle class along social mobility which helps the poor move into the middle class and can make millionaires out of the middle class is much preferable to the current system that is increasingly destroying the middle class and eliminating social mobility.  The name of this organization, Patriotic Millionaires

 

Why have they banded together?  Simple.  They believe a viable middle class that grows every year is ultimately better for them.  They have nothing against the super rich and their wealth because they are the super rich themselves.  In fact, they want to see even more people in the US join the super rich.

 

However, they understand a world of falling demand, deflation, price comprehension and social instability isn't good for the country and in the long term not good for their own pocketbooks.  They favor policies that provide worker training, infrastructure development, educational assistance, fair tax policy, and the like.  The group believes that sensible regulation is good for Americans and good for business.  They are for trickle up not trickle down economics.  Their message to Congress: "Cut Americans a Better Deal."  Finally, the association thinks that patriotism should mean more than money.

 

They also believe that private enterprise should play a role.  Patriotic Millionaires believes the current system  undermines not only the economic success of the US but is self destructive to corporations in the long term.  They want corporations to provide good paying full time jobs instead of offering a sea of gig, part time and contract work.

 

I've checked out their website (patrioticmillionaires.com) and was impressed by a lot of what I saw.  Their own Chairman Morris Pearl is a billionaire.  Its refreshing that some of the 1% have finally said we've had enough economic destruction in the US and it won't benefit any of us long term.

 

I'm sure this article will get a backlash of critics either saying I'm clueless or these men and women are nothing more than a bunch of showboats.  But then again the critics won't bother to pursue the website.  I saw the Chairman on RT America the other night and like what I heard but was still a bit dubious.  Then I checked out the website and really liked what I read.

Comments

Paul Austin Murphy Added Jun 16, 2017 - 10:58am

Finally a really good news story. A bunch of very wealthy people, almost all millionaires have decided the economic path of the US is not good and not sustainable.” - George N Romey
 
Upward/social mobility” is anathema to all socialists and even to many Democrats. After all, if it exists (which is does – though not for everyone), then the “class war” is no longer on the table (or at least it looses its appeal). Thus many middle-class Leftists and Democrats (many of whom are millionaires themselves!) work hard keeping the poor as poor as they need to be to become their very own radical/revolutionary fodder. (The same is true of blacks as fodder for the Left and Democrats.)
 
In addition, altruistic and philanthropic millionaires have always existed in the U.S. and U.K. (You could write many volumes on this.) This too goes against the grain of socialist and much Democrat thought.
 
However, they understand a world of falling demand, deflation, price comprehension and social instability isn't good for the country and in the long term not good for their own pocketbooks.”
 
All that may be true. However, if we're stuck dead in the middle of a period, don't we always see the (decaying) trees rather than the (healthy) wood? Will today's “bad times” be forgotten when worsened or better times arrive? If times are bad in these economic senses, then relative to which period? This, again, isn't to say that the economic situation today isn't bad. To be honest, it's hard for me to tell.
 
wsucram15 Added Jun 16, 2017 - 1:05pm
George if that sentiment grows among the 1%, it would be helpful.  You need a prosperous middle class to fund and purchase things. Also have the ability to be upwardly mobile as well.
Capitalism is built on that.
Thomas Sutrina Added Jun 16, 2017 - 1:36pm
George sign up Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington.  The statist, Liberal, or progresive all socialist or communist because the end vision is the same.  The founders lived in a world where this same end vision existed, monarchies.  And taking from the "haves" and giving to the "have notes" was popular.  Ben Franklin serving the colonies in Europe saw the welfare in England  of the time in action and wrote a whole essay,"I have long been of your opinion, that your legal provision for the poor is a very great evil, operating as it does to the encouragement of idleness.  We have followed your example, and begin now to see our error, and, I hope, shall reform it." ref: Smyth, Writings of Benjamin Franklin, 10:64.  ... 
A survey of Franklin's views on counter-productive compassion might be summarized as follows:
1. Compassion which gives a drunk the means to increase his drunkenness in counter-productive Ibid 5:538
2. Compassion which breed debilitating dependency and weakness is counter-productive Ibid 5:123
3. Compassion which blunts the desire or necessity to work for a living is counter-productive Ibid 3:135-136
4. Compassion which smothers the instinct to strive and excel is counter-productive Ibid 3:136-137
 
The founders did believe in "calculated" compassion.  Help them to help themselves.  Allow them to climb the "appreciation ladder" of earning the gains they make.  Give emergency help but do not prolong it to the point where it becomes habitual.
 
The founders define the roll of government by defining responsibility for compassion.  First level is the individual himself, the second is the family, then the church, and the community.  This is all one to one compassion, personnel.  Above this is the county and state for emergency.  They left out the federal government because it would corrupt the government and those being served the poor.   Ref: "The Five Thousand Year Leap" Cleon Skousen p 90-91
 
Dino Manalis Added Jun 16, 2017 - 1:55pm
That's why the wealthy and corporations should be encouraged to invest in the poor, including public housing; schools; infrastructure; and R&D of goods and services that will be made only in America for a certain time period.
Duane Eugene Kirkland Added Jun 16, 2017 - 2:14pm
Duane Eugene Kirkland U.C.C. 1-207 1-308 w/o prejudice -reading and thoughts, enjoy, I did …..


Your thoughts
Finally a really good news story.  A bunch of very wealthy people, almost all millionaires have decided the economic path of the US is not good and not sustainable. 


Kirkland comments.
Wisdom is always a good story, most wealthy men now days in the United States are not even true Americans, they are from another country living in the United States of America, capitalizing on our ways of life liberty and to peruse happiness, but however they are trying to change our fundamental ways of our nations traditions.
This is a major problem within. I only ask why do they com here and get rich, and don't even go back to there nation to help there own nation. Why stay in our nation and try to change our ways ? And break down our laws and our rule of law.
Even though those who think that the economic is not good and not sustainable. Every millionaire I have encountered is against our nation, except a handful who are true Americans. Trump is a perfect example of a true rich man who has everything he wants.
Therefor I believe Trump is the key to restore economic power for the United states because he is exposing the rich ones that are against our nations rule of life liberty and justice for all.
Trump is the way back to a sustainable economic control, against the governmental institutions who have for many years rob the branches purse and the people who they serve.
I believe Trump will fill the branches purse , because his is already full. Trump wants our children to be able to survive for another 250 plus years ahead.






Your thoughts...
They believe that a strong middle class along social mobility which helps the poor move into the middle class and can make millionaires out of the middle class is much preferable to the current system that is increasingly destroying the middle class and eliminating social mobility.  The name of this organization, Patriotic Millionaires
 
Why have they banded together?  Simple.  They believe a viable middle class that grows every year is ultimately better for them.  They have nothing against the super rich and their wealth because they are the super rich themselves.  In fact, they want to see even more people in the US join the super rich.


Kirkland's thoughts...
The super rich is the problem , because they think they are above the law, and they help create unconstitutional acts that put the pain and suffering on there slaves. But the news is the change is coming and the scrutiny test are coming , an the lines are drawn.
The lower classes are awake and they are learning the fundamental principles that the nation was built upon, and then only they can see who is truly our enemies within, and they shall perish, as history has always proven.
The gist of the problems is the double titles of nobility's and sectors of the nation. It s the rich judges and lawyers who are a very big part of the problem.
They take there positions and do governmental schemes on the masses to collect more direct taxed by trickery unconstitutional laws, and then fasten there institution and the there administrations .
 What do I see, I see rich men getting rich due to the facts of illegal laws that capitalize on the lower classes. And bringing more harm than good. By breaking down of our laws of the nation at a state level and a federal level.
By breaking the title USC 18 , 241,242, 1628. sedition by treason. And to many more to mention.


Your thoughts ….
However, they understand a world of falling demand, deflation, price comprehension and social instability isn't good for the country and in the long term not good for their own pocketbooks. 


Kirkland's thoughts………….
Duane Eugene Kirkland Added Jun 16, 2017 - 2:19pm
the rest of the story.................. 
 
Kirkland's thoughts………….
Yes I do agree, they are capitalizing on our basic fundamental God given rights to actually live. How ? Well by unconstitutional acts , and by states and administrations with no legal authority making basic decisions for the public lower classes and middle classes.
And to the fact of of a state turning a basic necessities of life into a crime. When they have you jurisdiction or legal authority.
The solutions is no more illegal laws and no more robing the branches purse. The problem is the very rich none American people trying to be kings and queens, and titles of nobility to control and tax those who are ignorant of the law.
Then the rich are protected by foreign titles of nobility and law firms that are not even American. The law firms are spies , in the simplistic way.
But again the American our people we the people are some what respect the uniform commercial codes and statutes that actually bring harm on society as a whole. To bad the masses will not understand because of the programed colleges and institutions they think are teaching them the correct way.


Your thoughts...
They favor policies that provide worker training, infrastructure development, educational assistance, fair tax policy, and the like.  The group believes that sensible regulation is good for Americans and good for business.  They are for trickle up not trickle down economics.  Their message to Congress: "Cut Americans a Better Deal."  Finally, the association thinks that patriotism should mean more than money.


Kirkland's thoughts...
  The solution is to to put those in positions that control society with the knowledge of the Constitutions in harmony and the true intent of the basic fundamental history in place, and to replace those who are placing there own history of the nation they come from.
What is our basic fundamentals ? the bill of rights , the declaration of independence, and magma carta and charters , and the Constitutions written by our four fathers of the nation, we must replace it with the truth of our countries history and remember our past.
If the rich people that are not Americans would enhance our true intent of the Constitutions of the states in harmony, we would live many more life times as a nation, but the majority of rich is not American , and they strive to change us within.
Thank god for the few rich are true Americans, because they will expose the Trojan horses within. Trump is doing this to the latter, of the true intent.


Your thoughts……….
They also believe that private enterprise should play a role.  Patriotic Millionaires believes the current system  undermines not only the economic success of the US but is self destructive to corporations in the long term.  They want corporations to provide good paying full time jobs instead of offering a sea of gig, part time and contract work.






Kirkland's thoughts….
  The fact of the matter is if the rich would follow the supremacy clause , the main contract of the United states of America , that is to be govern by constitution - and the that was the agreement between the government and the people.
If they would just follow it this would weed out the majority of the economic problems within. If the ones holding the tiles of nobility would actually know the legal authority of the nation, this would also help our nation. The key is the bill of right in all state sin harmony and the Constitutions in the union in harmony.


Your thoughts...
I've checked out their website (patrioticmillionaires.com) and was impressed by a lot of what I saw.  Their own Chairman Morris Pearl is a billionaire.  Its refreshing that some of the 1% have finally said we've had enough economic destruction in the US and it won't benefit any of us long term.
I'm sure this article will get a backlash of c
Bill H. Added Jun 16, 2017 - 2:20pm
George, all I can say is it is uplifting to see a group that really understands what makes the economy healthy in the long run. Here is the link to the site.
After trying to connect after a few tries, I searched and found out it was patrioticmillionaires.org, rather than .com.
It's too bad we don't have thinkers like this running our corporations instead of a bunch of greedy no-clue bean counters whose goal it seems is to keep up with unbalancing the economy as long as they can for the sake of their own bank accounts.
Until most Americans can earn a living wage and increase their buying power, we will remain stagnant or worsen. Keeping wages low and increasing product or service prices will only result in a worsening situation.
What the hell do they teach in High School economics classes these days? (or do they teach economics at all anymore?)
Duane Eugene Kirkland Added Jun 16, 2017 - 2:28pm
 
 
I'm sure this article will get a backlash of critics either saying I'm clueless or these men and women are nothing more than a bunch of showboats.  But then again the critics won't bother to pursue the website.  I saw the Chairman on RT America the other night and like what I heard but was still a bit dubious.  Then I checked out the website and really liked what I read.




Kirkland thoughts , closing
I enjoyed elaborating and sharing my thoughts and thoughts of responding. But the main issue of the big picture is regardless of the economic riches of individuals , all come down to the follow the true intent of the law at all levels, and the rich does not seem to have the same standards as the rest of all of the other classes.
But this in the change, the scrutiny test are being- given by the true whole men who are inspired by God, the new administration understands this , and this will have a major impact on the nation to the good and its economic issues at home and abroad. Read your Constitutions and read the true intent of the nations laws
wsucram15 Added Jun 16, 2017 - 6:50pm
Duane...commenting is casual...no format required, you sound like R2D2.
Try to keep the comments shorter than the article. Just a smidge.  We all know what he said, just your opinion is cool.  Like BillH above.
George N Romey Added Jun 16, 2017 - 7:04pm
Bill I'm glad you checked out the site and thanks for correcting me. Unfortunately for now they are in the minority.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 16, 2017 - 8:11pm
Patriotic Millionaires believes the current system  undermines not only the economic success of the ... but is self destructive to corporations in the long term
 
Wow. What geniuses there are. The caretaker of our house told me the same thing 10 years ago.
wsucram15 Added Jun 16, 2017 - 8:34pm
SEF..the idea was not your caretaker but that some of the 1% were accepting the idea..come on.
Jeff Jackson Added Jun 16, 2017 - 9:36pm
The few 1%'ers that understand what patriotism is all about. It isn't about what I can cheat, leverage and use my influence to get richer, it is to help my fellow Americans, and we all get richer. Finally, someone gets it. I hope they either run for Congress or make some donations to the people what can turn America around.
John G Added Jun 16, 2017 - 10:02pm
So what are they actually advocating? A whole lotta nothing by the looks.
John G Added Jun 16, 2017 - 10:06pm
What the hell do they teach in High School economics classes these days? (or do they teach economics at all anymore?)
They teach neoclassical Econ 101, which is a pack of lies and falsehoods. That forms the basis of the misinformation that the general public and economics students are conditioned to believe and thus act against their self interest.
Mircea Negres Added Jun 17, 2017 - 7:54am
George, I once prevented over 10 burglaries within the space of 3 months (stopped one guy who tried to break into 4 homes one after the other right in front of me- he was caught, got 7 years, but not before incompetent police dispatcher got descriptions mixed up and I was nearly shot dead by cops), in a neighborhood full of lawyers, doctors, accountants, tennis courts, Olympic-sized swimming pools (no shit, the pools are that big) and trust fund babies. Their reaction to crime spiraling upwards in their neighborhood? Sleep through it, live in blissful ignorance, then ride in a convoy with all lights on and families in the back seats while escorted by police and private armed response firms' vehicles with their lights flashing- then retreating to their luxurious homes while they paid two private security firms to handle the security measure deployments, patrols, arrests, fighting and dying. Millionaires I've known a few, and patriots a few more, but when push comes to shove, what needs to be done gets done by even fewer. "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious", said Oscar Wilde. "Wealth is the province of the greedy, deceitful and rapacious cowards", said I. I admire your optimism and search for answers within paradigms you can understand, but the world of patriots and tyrants is very different from balance sheets and paying for wars from the comfort of the country club. Don't look up to these guys, brother. Rather speak to me and others, for we've been there and done that. We know what's out there, and what needs to be done. Millionaires know nothing beyond money, and that's a fact. And now for a "Like" from one of your buddies... Piiiing!
wsucram15 Added Jun 17, 2017 - 12:49pm
Mircea..at least someone tried, but you are most likely correct.
Duane Eugene Kirkland Added Jun 17, 2017 - 1:42pm
My main thought is the police would live a lot longer if they new the whole purpose of there job.


What is the whole purpose of the job ? 
The main purpose of a police officer is to protect life and limb, and to protect property and the Constitutions of the states in harmony.  Many don't know that. 


Under the 10 Amendment powers.  If they would just follow the law and  know  what a actual crime is. 


In the United States, state police power comes from the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution, which gives states the rights and powers "not delegated to the United States." States are thus granted the power to establish and enforce laws protecting the welfare, safety, and health of the public.


Violating  people'- society the ones they work for , or treating them like a enemy, and enforcing direct taxes, bill of pain is violating the laws they are bound to.


No officer should  Justified by a recuse of safety reasoning. 


They are to not violate individuals privacy nor the bill of rights, nor the Constitutions. They have promised to preserve. 


Example the 4th amendment..
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Elements of a crime has to have a victim or property damage, or a violation against the Constitution.  


The main purpose of a police officer is to protect life and limb, and to protect property and the Constitutions of the states in harmony.  Many don't know that. 


I can go on forever on the issues, but from my personal investigations why cops get shot is simple, they don't know the law, and if they did they would probably live a lot longer. 


It appears that society is educating there self from the history of the United states basic history of the Constitutions and civics. 


They seem to know the law more than the tax collectors, obeying operation orders instead of the letter of the law.  sad to say. 


The fact of the matter is there is good and bad, in all.
The police are not military, and they are not to shoot and ask question later.  They are to protect life and limb.


You have to remember , many are returning from wars, and are well armed and trained, even some are better trained than officers. The majority of society is bread and well armed to counter encroachment and infringement upon the private person. Its in there blood.


The public is awakening and learning the bill of rights and what a officers limitation by the powers delegated to them.  


I predict that more officers will be shot until they figure out to not violate the 4th amendment and privacy that is essential to a free society.


Duane Kirkland/investigator and bill of rights advocate, 11brv ..infantry. 
 
MJ Added Jun 17, 2017 - 1:52pm
George good story!   Only money can make more money.
A Jewish friend once told me a poor man cannot help another one otherwise both of them will be in a mess. Sad but true.
Donald Swenson Added Jun 17, 2017 - 8:46pm
George: Are you aware of Agenda 2030? Pope Francis and our United Nations set off this agenda in September of 2015 and the agenda became official policy on January 1, 2016. The Agenda 2030 program is meant to create an environment for Utopia by 2030 with a New World System under the management of select elites. The elites who now promote Agenda 2030 are of the view that Capitalism is basically OVER. We do not have Capitalism today as our financial system is centralized with some 6 major Central Banks ruling over the entire edifice. Our Federal Reserve System (privately operated) and the Bank for International Settlements (the bank for all Central Banks) are the key movers today (along with the Bank of England, Bank of Japan, Peoples Bank of China, and the European Central Bank). Our entire global cyber stock market edifice is now a electronic edifice operating within cyberspace. We have virtual currencies, virtual stocks, virtual bonds, and virtual everything (mostly). A cashless world is emerging rapidly (Sweden is now nearly 100% cashless). I think we need to recognize that the Deep State boys are ruling our system and we don't have Capitalism as many are assuming. We have a Centrally Planned (centrally controlled) financial system which is digital/virtual/cyber. And Agenda 2030 along with AI and Robots are being designed for our Mark of the Beast economy going forward. D
Mark Hunter Added Jun 17, 2017 - 9:35pm
Absolutely a great idea. And maybe evidence that just because a person's rich doesn't mean he's bad.
MJ Added Jun 18, 2017 - 1:50am
Donald, I agree with you on Agenda 2030.
There is nothing anyone can do to stop this coming 'mark of the beast" economy. We just need to prepare ourselves and our families to hang in there and to be able to withstand the onslaught from all sides.
Donald Trump cannot do anything to stop this, he needs every citizen to stand behind him to prolong this waiting period until it is in full effect as long as possible.
At the moment the people on the left hasten this to the disadvantage of all citizens on the planet.
Peter Corey Added Jun 18, 2017 - 3:51am
>A bunch of very wealthy people, almost all millionaires have decided the economic path of the US is not good and not sustainable. 
 
"Patriotic Millionaires" are shills for the far left. In various interviews, most of them were unable (or unwilling) to analyze critically any of their own policy positions; they simply parroted them, repetitiously, as the usual far left, Democratic Party talking points.
 
Dan Berger, a millionaire lawyer and member of Patriotic Millionaires, admitted in a radio interview that he uses an accountant to prepare his taxes. Why? Is Mr. Berger incapable of filling out a 1040 form correctly on his own, despite his legal education and expertise? Yes, of course, he could fill out his own 1040; but he wants an accountant to do it in order to MINIMIZE the amount of tax he pays. So much for his bullshit about "I think rich people like me ought to pay more tax!"
 
Income tax forms have a line item that allows individuals to voluntarily pay more in taxes if they feel they are not paying enough. If any member of Patriotic Millionaires really believed in what he said, he would simply fork over more taxes to the government; a congressional mandate to do so is unnecessary. I don't see any statement on their website asserting that each one of them voluntarily pays more in taxes in order to "feel more patriotic," and hey, all you other millionaires and billionaires out there! You should follow our example! Um, excuse me. They have not set an example. As always with hypocrites, they're position is, "Do as we say; not as we do."
 
Chuck Collins, another member of "Patriotic Millionaires" is a member of the Institute for Policy Studies, a far-left think tank with an interesting history of its own. It was founded in 1963 with seed money (derived from a fortune made in perfumes and cosmetics sales under the Faberge trade name) from the Samuel Rubin Foundation.  Samuel Rubin (1901-1978), who established the foundation that bore his name, was a dedicated socialist and a Communist Party USA member. His daughter, Cora Weiss, headed the Samuel Rubin Foundation from its inception. Cora's husband, Peter Weiss, served as chairman of the IPS board of trustees from the group's founding until the 1990s. He has also held prominent positions with the Center for Constitutional Rights, the International Association of Lawyers Against Nuclear Arms, the Lawyers Committee on Nuclear Policy, the National Emergency Civil Liberties Committee, and the National Lawyers Guild.  IPS holds a "political outlook" that is "classically Marxist" and portrays capitalism as the chief cause of human suffering, not only in the U.S. but worldwide. "Since its founding in 1963," CRC elaborates, "IPS has attacked capitalism as the scourge of the poor, the economic system that props up the nation-state, and the cause of war and 'imperialism.' Only the business class—the 'bourgeoisie'—prospers under capitalism. The rest of the world suffers."
 
And one of its members is also a member of "Patriotic Millionaires"? Kind of makes you say, "Hmmmmm . . . .?"
 
Another member of Patriotic Millionaires is Ryan Smith. Ryan works in venture capital, and has been an activist in a lefty organization called Democracy For America (DFA). DFA was founded by Howard Dean, and is chaired by Jim Dean (Howard's brother). DFA has also partnered with George Soros's group, "MoveOn.org" and "America Votes."
 
Joe Zimlich is a member of Patriotic Millionaires and is also a member of "America Votes", claiming to be a grass-roots, "get out the vote" committee, but which in fact is a constituent of the Shadow Party: a network of non-profit activist groups organized by George Soros and others to mobilize resources -- money, get-out-the-vote drives, campaign advertising, and policy initatives -- to advance Democratic Party agendas, elect Democratic candidates, and guide the Democratic Party ever-further towards the left. The Shadow Party in this sense was conceived and organized principally by Soros, Hillary Clinton, and Harold M. Ickes (Bill Clinton's White House Chief-of-Staff). Its efforts are amplified by, and coordinated with, key government unions and the activist groups associated with the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN). The key organizers of these groups are veterans of the Sixties left.
 
"America Votes" has also received large donations from George Soros: $2.15 million in 2006, and $1.25 million in 2010.
 
Etc., etc.
 
I haven't gone through every member's profile and vetted the groups to which they admit belonging, but the entire "Patriotic Millionaires" gang looks like not
Peter Corey Added Jun 18, 2017 - 3:51am
I haven't gone through every member's profile and vetted the groups to which they admit belonging, but the entire "Patriotic Millionaires" gang looks like nothing more than a front group for far left causes; and its rallying cry of "It's patriotic to pay taxes!" was something the moron-in-chief, Joe Biden, used to repeat often during the 2008 campaign. 
 
We're 17 years into the 21st century, and the only thing those rich fools have to offer is reheated New Deal thinking from the 1930s about higher taxes and infrastructure spending? Really? I mean, Holy Shit.
 
The group doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
George N Romey Added Jun 18, 2017 - 11:37am
Donald I am very well aware of the New World Order and yes more than likely they will prevail. They envision a world of a couple million wealthy elites, another maybe 10% to 15% of professionals and middle class centered around certain major cities and the remainder the working poor. One of their goals is mass depopulation which will happen with so many poor. It will be an ugly world assuming no revolution to smash this idea. I do not know if revolution is coming but I wouldn't discount it either.
John G Added Jun 18, 2017 - 2:44pm
A bizarre view of the "far left" from our far out, far right Austrian cuckoo there.
Peter Corey Added Jun 18, 2017 - 7:34pm
Any millionaire who belongs to a group receiving donations from socialist billionaire and social-engineer, George Soros, cannot at the same time call himself a "Patriot." That shouldn't be too hard to figure out.
Donald Swenson Added Jun 18, 2017 - 8:33pm
When I attend conferences like AI or Robot shows, the 2030 agenda is often mentioned. It seems like the U.N. Agenda 2030 is now fully official and the USA and the West is on-board with this agenda and its goals. China is also fully on-board with this Agenda. This means that it will be difficult to stop without a serious revolution (among all the people).
 
My concern is that we have tried Socialism and Communism and neither work for the vast majority of people. We have some 7.4 billion on our planet and given the plans of this hierarchy of elites this is ominous for the masses. Those in power may benefit but the vast majority of common people could become slaves to this communal system of Central Planning. D
Rusty Smith Added Jun 18, 2017 - 10:25pm
The super-wealthy can do many things with their money but in the US it's tough for them to spend most of it on themselves.  
 
If they build an extravagant custom house, they employ everyone from the designers to the people who clean up the job site for a year.  
If they buy a fleet of fancy cars, someone gets the sales commission and others charge them a fortune to maintain them.
 
If they don't have time to raise their kids, they pay people to do that, and most of them pay gardeners and housekeepers to take care of all their homes even if their not living in them.
 
All the super-wealthy leave behind lots of money that their heirs usually spend in one generation if they haven't put it in an endowment that also hires people.
 
You may think their wealth is sinful, I just see it as very temporary in the big picture, and realize it all goes back to the people.
Donald Swenson Added Jun 19, 2017 - 12:05am
Rusty: You are describing historical Capitalism and Free Markets. Unfortunately, we do not have this anymore, Rusty. The 1% now own something like 70% of all the American wealth. Our Central Bank (called the Fed) now creates virtual money out of thin air (nothing). These virtual money units go mostly to those with existing wealth (the 1%). The 50% who do most of the labor are not even in the stock markets. The average retired person can not save even $1,000 for unforseen events. Is this historical Capitalism? I don't think so! We now live with socialism and our elites have adopted Agenda 2030 to bring the whole planet into a socialistic/communistic utopia. Obama committed the USA to this United Nations Agenda. It started in 2015 and is not official policy. D
Donald Swenson Added Jun 19, 2017 - 12:06am
and is now official policy. D
John G Added Jun 19, 2017 - 2:56am
Socialism works. Capitalism always has to destroy socialist movements and governments because they present the greatest threat of all to them.
The threat of a good example.
John G Added Jun 19, 2017 - 2:59am
The 1% now own something like 70% of all the American wealth.
The capitalists are winning but you're yelling at the left.
Retarded.
Peter Corey Added Jun 19, 2017 - 3:16am
>Socialism works.
 
Only for members of the political party in power. It doesn't work for the ordinary person who simply wants to improve his lot in life. That's why when you watch how people in socialist countries vote with their feet, they always tend to leave socialist countries for capitalist ones, and not the other way around.
 
Why not study a little history while you're catching up on your Econ101?
 
>The 1% now own something like 70% of all the American wealth.
 
Even if true, it's utterly irrelevant to economic well being and economic progress. 1) That 1% you fear so much is not static, but always changing: today's 1% are tomorrow's 99% and vice-versa. Happens all the time under capitalism . . . though not under socialism, because under socialism there's little or no competition, so incumbents at the top simply stay at the top forever, and innovative upstarts don't stand a chance.
 
The measure of economic progress is how wide the array is for consumption choices: have they expanded for the ordinary wage earner or have they contracted? I think any intellectually honest answer is that consumption choices — especially in the market for goods and services that used to be considered luxury items for the rich alone — have greatly expanded. 
 
Ownership shmownership. You don't know what you're talking about. From what school did you obtain your "degree" in economics, GaGa? You mumbled the name so softly it was unintelligible. Do tell us again.
Peter Corey Added Jun 19, 2017 - 3:36am
The main economic reason socialism always malfunctions is that it cannot perform economic calculation; i.e., without private ownership upstream and downstream (that is, farms, mines, factories, etc., wholesale outlets, retail outlets, as well as final consumer goods), it cannot rationally allocate factors of production (land, labor, capital) in ways that are optimal for responding to consumer wishes. Under capitalism, consumers — through buying and abstention from buying — ultimately tell producers what goods to make and by what means to make them. That's all done through prices. But for prices to relay accurate information regarding consumer wishes, each step of the production process has to be privately owned by someone who has "skin in the game" and either stands to lose by miscalculating consumer wishes, or stands to profit by correctly doing so.
 
The most that can be done (and has been done) under government ownership (so called "public ownership") of the means of production, on the one hand, is to command quotas from producers, usually in units that have nothing to do with what consumers actually want (e.g., "We direct the Public Metal Works to manufacture for next year 2000 tons of nails", irrespective of specifically what kinds of nails — tacks? Roofing nails? Drywall? Masonry? Railroad spikes? How many of each? No. Just "2000 tons"); and on the other hand, simply to tell consumers, "This is what Central Economic Planning has decided is best for you. You can buy whatever nails we've decided to make, or you can do without nails." In fact, under socialism, what inevitably occurs is that a real, capitalist, free market appears — secretly and "under the radar", so to speak — but it's technically illegal: it's called the Black Market. So most consumers under socialism will turn (and do turn) to the illegal black market (or often a semi-legal "gray market") to obtain the goods they really want).
 
So much for fantasizing that "socialism works."
 
Paraphrasing Churchill:  If a young man of 20 is not a socialist, he has no heart. But if he's still a socialist at 40, he has no head.
 
Quite so.
John G Added Jun 19, 2017 - 3:50am
More nonsense from the religious right.
Peter Corey Added Jun 19, 2017 - 5:55am
Regarding nonsense from the vicious Godless left, let us never forget that socialism and Keynes were greatly admired by fascist tyrants like Benito Mussolini:
 
"Socialism has to remain a terrifying and a majestic thing. If we follow this line, we shall be able to face our enemies."
— As quoted in Il Duce: The Life and Work of Benito Mussolini, L. Kemechey, New York: NY, Richard R. Smith (1930) p. 54. Written just before taking editorship of the Italian Socialist Party newspaper Avanti in 1912.

"The law of socialism is that of the desert: a tooth for a tooth, an eye for an eye. Socialism is a rude and bitter truth, which was born in the conflict of opposing forces and in violence. Socialism is war, and woe to those who are cowardly in war. They will be defeated."
— As quoted in Il Duce: The Life and Work of Benito Mussolini, L. Kemechey, New York: NY, Richard R. Smith (1930) p. 56. Written just before taking editorship of the Italian Socialist Party newspaper Avanti in 1912.
 
"Fascism entirely agrees with Mr. Maynard Keynes, despite the latter's prominent position as a Liberal. In fact, Mr. Keynes' excellent little book, The End of Laissez-Faire (l926) might, so far as it goes, serve as a useful introduction to fascist economics. There is scarcely anything to object to in it and there is much to applaud."
— As quoted from Mussolini's review of Keynes' new book in Universal Aspects of Fascism, James Strachey Barnes, Williams and Norgate, London: UK, (1928) pp. 113-114
George N Romey Added Jun 19, 2017 - 8:01am
1% of stock is owned by about 70%, mostly large institutional investors.  Stocks are traded more and more by AI.  The world of BOD is a clubby world with CEOs serving on multiple boards.  The free market left a long time ago. 
 
This group unfortunately is small and likely is dwarfed by more millionaires that have no concern about an American Middle Class.
Donald Swenson Added Jun 19, 2017 - 1:28pm
Good discussion. Peter makes many valid points​. Socialism does lead to Communism and choices are then dictated by a few elites. This system can not work without a change in human nature. The bottom line for all systems is man's HUMAN nature.
 
Can human nature change? Only if our Creator intervenes and changes our inner consciousness. As of today, Socialism and Communism lead to enslavement of 7.4 billion humans to the dictates of a few crazies like we now witness governing this plant. D
Donald Swenson Added Jun 19, 2017 - 1:30pm
We need to get real and learn about the Big Picture...Human Nature and who gave us this nature!!! D
John G Added Jun 19, 2017 - 2:55pm
There is nothing within socialist thought that opposes private ownership. On the contrary. 
So it's garbage in, garbage out again.
In 1926 Keynes was an adherent of the Walrasian classical school. Which forms the basis of Corey's current beliefs.
General Theory came somewhat later and rejected that school of thought and introduced macroeconomics as a discipline to the wider world.
Corey is a cheap sophist.
Thomas Sutrina Added Jun 19, 2017 - 4:00pm
John G. Communism is socialism.  So John the spectrum of Socialism includes ownership of the means of production.  And By owning those means they in effect own the workers.  Every socialist state tries to own the means of production.  The economy starts failing so they step back from full ownership. That is what happened in China.  So in practice John G. they have the desire to own everything but they do not want to get overthrown.
Donald Swenson Added Jun 19, 2017 - 4:26pm
The core conclusion of Karl Marx was that 'private' property creates Capitalism. Marx desired to abolish 'private' property. Socialism leads to communism which leads to enslavement of everyone except those running the Ponzi. Central planning by deceived elites (who can not discern the real wants and needs of the masses) is what emerges. Central planning then produces alienation, crime, killing, jail time, subversion of creativity, mental slavery, marshal law, lack of essentials, and eventually global destruction via nuclear war to rid this menace from society. Central planning is what Socialism and Communism is all about. It's been tried! What happened? D
Peter Corey Added Jun 19, 2017 - 6:28pm
>There is nothing within socialist thought that opposes private ownership. On the contrary. 
 
Marxian socialist thought — "International Socialism" — opposes private ownership of property on principle. Marx agreed with Proudhon: "All property is theft." So much for International Socialism.
 
Sombartian socialist thought — "National Socialism" — allows private citizens to own title to property, but not to exercise the usual rights and privileges that go along with actual ownership such as: the right to offer it for sale at any price you wish; the right to build on it anything you wish; the right to employ people to work on your property at any wage you and the employee decide on; the right to hire/fire employees freely; the right to sell whatever good or service your property provides at any price you wish; etc. In other words, under the National Socialism of fascist economists like Werner Sombart, a private citizen was allowed in theory to "own" a cow, but what he really owned was not the cow, per se, but simply "title" to the cow; all of the goods that derive from the cow — milk, butter, cheese, beef — were regulated by government diktat in some or all of their respects, such as the amount, the quality, the price, etc. That isn't ownership.
 
Obviously, then, as a crypto-fascist, you subscribe to Werner Sombart's notion of socialism. That explains why you and Benito Mussolini both admire Keynes.
 
As for Walras, the marginal-utility revolution in thinking, along with the subjective notion of economic value occurred more or less simultaneously among three different thinkers: Carl Menger (Austrai), Leon Walras (Switzerland), William Stanley Jevons (England). I'm with the Mengerian school of thought, not the Walrasian one. You clearly don't know the difference.
 
>In 1926 Keynes was an adherent of the Walrasian classical school.
 
Actually, no he wasn't. He knew almost nothing of the innovations in economic thought that were occurring on the continent. He had only studied some economics with Alfred Marshall at Cambridge. Otherwise, he knew very little about the subject. His major interest, in fact, had always been mathematics. Friedrich Hayek and Keynes knew each other well, and in fact, were friends at the London School of Economics in the 1930s. In a videotaped interview available online, Hayek claimed that Keynes knew less about the new thinking in economics (subjective value; marginal utility) than anyone else he was acquainted with, which accounts for why he (Hayek) didn't bother critiquing the General Theory when it was first published: he realized it was just old, monetary-crank theories dressed in a modern tuxedo, and wasn't worth publishing a long refutation. He was right about the first point; wrong about the second.
 
As for the glories of ignoring individual decision-making and concentrating only on broad aggregates, the maxim has always been, "There may, indeed, be such things as macro-economic problems, but there are ONLY micro-economic solutions."
 
Individuals matter far more than amorphous aggregates.
 
Return to your closet, you fraud, and continue sucking eggs through your beak.
 
By the way, where did you obtain your "degree" in economics? We couldn't hear you the first time when you mumbled it.
 
Rusty Smith Added Jun 19, 2017 - 9:36pm
Donald Swenson the wealthy can't eat their money, they have to spend it to have fun and when they do it gets earned by the rest of us.  What they can't eat or spend usually goes into huge endowments that hire lost of other people for decades or even centuries after they are long dead.  
 
If the government takes it from them and hands it out to other people all that does is put a middle man in the process and ensure fewer of those receiving the money will see any need to work for it.
Donald Swenson Added Jun 19, 2017 - 11:51pm
Peter Corey makes many great points in his comments above. He seems to understand the flaws of Socialism and also the flaws in the thinking of Marx. The ideas of Marx can be summed up in this statement: 'eliminate private property' and let the STATE assume rulership and control. The State, to me, is someone like John G. (who I would not want dictating my survival). Sorry John. I like you as a person but would not support you as running Socialism of any other centralized monstrosity. D
Donald Swenson Added Jun 19, 2017 - 11:52pm
Rusty Smith also seems like a nice person to have coffee with. But I also would not want him running a centralized Socialistic State (with his elite friends). D
John G Added Jun 20, 2017 - 2:36am
Just ridiculous. None of you know what either capitalism or socialism are.
You just make shit up that suits your tribal alliances and bigotry.
Swenson, I don't even like you as a person. I don't like liars and I don't suffer fools gladly.
John G Added Jun 20, 2017 - 2:39am
the wealthy can't eat their money, they have to spend it to have fun and when they do it gets earned by the rest of us.
The wealthy, by definition are net savers. Thus they are removing financial assets from the rest of us.
Saving has the same effect on consumption as taxation. It suppresses aggregate demand. Recessions and depressions occur due to net saving.
 
Thomas Sutrina Added Jun 20, 2017 - 8:35am
John G., & Rusty S., the wealthy do not put there money in a hole in the back yard.  Criminals or scared people do that. PS gold coins found in California.  They are net investors.  Most enjoy seeing the money increase of in a sense that do have fun with it.  In the end all money is invested in the production of wealth and human labor is paid for its part in creating that wealth.  The wealth is consumed by us humans.   You dog or cat has no use for money.
Mike Haluska Added Jun 20, 2017 - 8:47am
George -
 
Without exception, every "economic ill" you mention is the direct result of government intrusion into the operation of the Free Market whether its Obamacare, taxes, trade agreements, union legislation, "Crony Capitalist" protection, etc.  Would you like to see an economic boom that would far surpass anything in history? 
 
                                  ELIMINATE THE INCOME TAX 
George N Romey Added Jun 20, 2017 - 12:16pm
How would eliminating the income tax alone spurn business.  If people's wages are depressed the elimination of the income tax won't make them rich over night.  How do you propose funding the government.  The elimination of the income tax would need to be replaced by something like a sales tax which would prohibit consumption.
Thomas Sutrina Added Jun 20, 2017 - 12:55pm
George R., income tax did not exist until Amendment 16 - "Status of Income Tax Clarified. Ratified 2/3/1913.
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."  Thus the most expensive war, the Civil War, occurred before the 16th Amendment.  Income tax is absolutely required for a welfare state to exist. 
 
So George the solution to end income tax is to increase employment.  End the minimum wage because it is the primary method of teaching responsibility and working skills.  Provide welfare to supplement work for those that need it.   Teen age had high employment without a minimum wage and there was not race differences.  This carried on to adulthood.  
 
LBJ due to discrimination in the local control of welfare took federal control of welfare.  Government needs to perform over-site.  Welfare need to be local and person to person so even the state need to also have an over-site responsibility.  The original Constitution allowed the states to have an income tax.  Since citizens can vote with there feet the movement of the population will help balance the states.  The Civil Rights laws that actually enforced the 13th 14th and 15th Amendments.  
Mike Haluska Added Jun 20, 2017 - 1:16pm
George - your question:
 
"How would eliminating the income tax alone spurn (sp? I assume you meant spur) business."
 
is best answered with a question. 
What do you think all of the "Capitalist Pigs" around the world would do if it was announced that the Income Tax was being eliminated (not just reduced) effective January 1st, 2018?  Where do you think huge foreign manufacturers like BMW, ABB, Komatsu, etc. would start planning to build their next factories and distribution centers?  Where do you think American manufacturers would do the same - in addition to relocating planned/existing manufacturing plants in Mexico, China, etc.?
 
Instead of punishing capitalists for acting in their rational self-interest, why not participate in their success?  The results of such economic growth would be a huge increase in high-paying jobs with benefits - drastically reducing the need for "Welfare State" solutions. 
 
In lieu of income taxes, we negotiate with corporations to provide:
1) help finance new schools with state of the art teaching technology so that they get the skilled workers they need and the students get a valuable education. 
2) real estate development to provide their workers access to new housing
3) partner with universities to educate engineers, doctors, etc. Purdue does this today at several Industrial Park Campuses around the state of Indiana.
4) partnerships with the VA to retrain our Vets for industry jobs (new version of the GI Bill) 
 
This is just stuff off the top of my head - I'm sure there are a lot of Writer Beat authors who could come up with mutually beneficial private/public solutions to meet national and local needs.
John G Added Jun 20, 2017 - 2:46pm
Sutrina Added Jun 20, 2017 - 8:35am
Sutrina that doesn't even rise to the level of a logical fallacy. You're just putting strings of words in a comment box.
Mike Haluska Added Jun 20, 2017 - 3:42pm
Thomas - your suggestion:
 
"Provide welfare to supplement work for those that need it."
 
is certainly a much better solution than giving welfare to an able-bodied, young men without any requirement for work in return.   
James E. Unekis Added Jun 21, 2017 - 10:51am
George, good post and I pray that it be true.  Still I suspect that billionaires and their ilk would rather enslave millions than provide reasonable wages to the same.
 
We shall see.
Mike Haluska Added Jun 21, 2017 - 12:10pm
James -
If you were a billionaire and wanted to keep making money, why would you deliberately suppress wages to the people you want to buy your products???  Just because companies try to hold down costs (who doesn't - do you spend more than you have to on gasoline, groceries, clothing, etc.???) doesn't mean they're evil.
Rusty Smith Added Jun 21, 2017 - 8:54pm
Many of our poor live on subsidizes by choice because they can work but refuse to.  I've had the opportunity to offer many work that claimed to be looking for it, but all they really wanted was free hand outs and refused my offers.
John G Added Jun 22, 2017 - 2:14am
Haluska, does it ever occur to you that someone with a billion dollars wanting to accumulate more isn't exactly a sane, rational human being?
Thomas Sutrina Added Jun 22, 2017 - 8:19am
John G. let met reminded you I did not raise to the level of logical fallacy yet someone with billions wants to accumulate more isn't a sane, rational human.  I guess you have to ignore the history of man to come to that conclusion or human nature is insanity.  So who determines what is sane? 
 
So as I said to get your comment of putting their wealth in a hole in the back yard.  Seem that you now agree that is logical since it does not grow in that hole, accumulate more. 
 
To invest the money, accumulate more, means people are put to work.  Now that John is better for society.  Natural law is 1. love the creator and 2. love thy neighbor.  Putting the neighbor to work so they can achieve life, liberty, and property that brings happiness.
put there money in a hole in the back yard.
put there money in a hole in the back yard.
Sutrina that doesn't even rise to the level of a logical fallacy.
Sutrina that doesn't even rise to the level of a logical fallacy. You're just putting strings of words in a comment box.
Sutrina that doesn't even rise to the level of a logical fallacy. You're just putting strings of words in a comment box.
Sutrina that doesn't even rise to the level of a logical fallacy. You're just putting strings of words in a comment box.
Sutrina that doesn't even rise to the level of a logical fallacy. You're just putting strings of words in a comment box.
Sutrina that doesn't even rise to the level of a logical fallacy. You're just putting strings of words in a comment box.
Sutrina that doesn't even rise to the level of a logical fallacy. You're just putting strings of words in a comment box.
Thomas Sutrina Added Jun 22, 2017 - 8:21am
Ps my  copy and paste did not show on the screen so I thought it did not occur.  I need try to figure out why. 
Mike Haluska Added Jun 22, 2017 - 10:53am
John - in response to your question:
 
"Haluska, does it ever occur to you that someone with a billion dollars wanting to accumulate more isn't exactly a sane, rational human being?
 
my reply is:
 
Only in a universe where John G grants permission for people to exceed John G's pre-established personal goals, desires and objectives for others.  The sooner you get the idea that wealth created benefits everyone, the happier you'll be.  But it won't happen since you're stuck in your "Wealth Redistribution" paradigm, in which somehow people who have nothing are "robbed" by billionaires.  
 
Phil's Personal Perspectives Added Jun 23, 2017 - 2:32am
George, I tried to access the website but couldn't.  I will try again later.  Regardless, although I may not agree with some of what you write, I believe you do your homework.  This is potentially one of the most economically beneficial actions I have heard of in a while.  I know Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and others have made significance contributions with their time and their money.  Hopefully billionaires now recognize that they do better when everyone does better,  Perhaps their motivation is altruism, a belief that this change is necessary, or maybe it is self preservation.  I don't care but hope it is to be good citizens who are paying back and paying forward.  Thanks for finding this group and sharing the information.  Good news right now is great news.
George N Romey Added Jun 23, 2017 - 11:08am
Phil many millionaires, particularly older ones are self made.  I think they realize that only in the US (probably not in Europe and certainly not SA or Asia) would their story be possible.  If social mobility gets killed along with the middle class then like other countries are destiny is solely a function of our birth right.  The entire world would suffer, including those same millionaires that made fortunes selling products and services to people that could afford them.
Phil's Personal Perspectives Added Jun 23, 2017 - 12:11pm
How does the saying go?  When you're right, you're right.  George, you're right.
Mike Haluska Added Jun 23, 2017 - 12:56pm
George - that was a lucid, thoughtful and rational post. 
John G Added Jun 24, 2017 - 1:41am
Haluska. Like all the right wingnuts here, your comment bares no relation to my comment. 
A billionaire accumulating another billion in financial assets is not creating anything. Quite the reverse, he/she is removing a billion in financial assets and more than that in income from the real economy.
You don't know what you're talking about, again.