The Deep State Takes a Deep Hit

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The deep state took a deep hit Monday. The deep state is comprised of the unelected, unaccountable, and irresponsible bureaucrats, regulators and legal authorities who bear little or no consequence nor suffer any hardship while they enforce policies that they feel are correct, in spite of legislation, executive orders, and public policy decisions. As they are unelected, they cannot be voted out of office, only removed by impeachment or legislative review. The deep state is the political class who have insulated themselves from the decisions that they impose on the public, while pursuing a progressive liberal agenda (a more specific explanation of their ideology would be another essay) with little fear of consequences.

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President Trump issued a travel ban on immigrants from 6 primarily Islamic countries for a limited time, while the U.S. government sorts out the screening procedures. Several courts packed with “activist judges” ruled that the president could not impose such a ban. Of course, the courts had no standing, in policy and had no authority to represent the interests of immigrants. From my essay, “Unqualified Policy Makers Facilitating Potential Terrorists,” quoting  “first, aliens have no constitutional right to enter the U.S.; second, American citizens have no constitutional right to demand entry for aliens; third, the decision to deny admission of an alien must be upheld if it is based on ‘a facially legitimate and bona fide reason.’”

 

President Trump stated: "Today's unanimous Supreme Court decision is a clear victory for our national security," as reported online in USA Today, June 26, 2017. There are some restrictions, being if the immigrants have interests within the U.S., which would be understandable. Not to put too fine a point on my profound ability to predict judgments, but as I said in the same article cited above: “My money says the U.S. Supreme Court reverses the Fourth Court’s decision, and hopefully reprimands the court as well.” No reprimand, but it is time for the activist judges in the courts to shut up and start serving the American people, maybe they remember them, the people who pay their salaries? They need to stop thinking about how to get people into this country and start thinking about the citizens who already are in this country. We have enough problems without the nonsensical, precedent-ignoring judges making unconstitutional (remember they lost in the Supreme Court case) policy decisions for which they have no authority nor responsibility.

 

In many professions, when someone in that profession does something totally out of line and out of their purview, many of their colleagues will suggest that they were so far out of line, they no longer understand what they are doing, and need to resign, both for themselves before they make more decisions that they have no authority to make, as well as get themselves into trouble by making them. We’re talking here about ethical professions, of course, so law wouldn’t apply in this instance, and certainly not judges who think that they control the world.

 

The decision was unanimous. There will be more consideration in the fall Supreme Court session, but, if I may be so bold to predict again, the deep state will lose once more. Were it me, I would have requested the judges deciding these cases to step down, but that’s just me. The decision had already been made in Kleindienst v. Mandel, but the deep state folks showed their true colors and their primary mission by disrespecting and disregarding the precedents that had been established. The new ideology is disrespectful and disobedient to established laws and protocols, and will ignore any laws that constrain their agenda. The deep state’s interest is to change the U.S. in ways that the voters and citizens do not see as beneficial, but the deep state has no interest in following laws, traditions, or, for that matter, ethical and constitutional restrictions. The deep state wants to get it done, ram it down the throats of the U.S. citizens, all the while collecting their generous salaries living in their safe gated communities.

 

The decision has been made, and it was unanimous. The Supreme Court stopped before reprimand, but I wouldn’t and I would encourage Trump not to. It is time to remove the obstacles and the agenda-driven deep state appointees. Part of the deep state mission has failed, and I for one (aside from predicting it) am quite happy about it. President Trump more than likely was following the advice of his security advisors when he initiated the temporary travel ban, but the deep state mission cares little for the safety of the U.S. citizen, nor does it consider the expenses involved in following its policies. The unelected, unaccountable, and irresponsible bureaucrats, regulators and legal authorities who bear little or no consequence nor suffer any hardship while they enforce policies that they feel are correct have lost, and my hope is that they not only continue to lose but they are removed from public life, where they will have to rely on their private sector pals who owe them many favors and who they have helped line their pockets.The deep state needs to stop being citizens of the world and start being citizens of the United States, the people who pay their salaries, and the men and women who keep them safe.

God bless the Supreme Court of the United States.

Comments

Skip Stein Added Jun 26, 2017 - 3:20pm
Great Article.  Unfortunately, this decision will be viewed as a victory for President Trump when it really is a Victory for Our Constitution.  The liberal 'deep state' has co-opted so much of our Constitutional Liberty by legislating from the Bench and not just interpretation laws as is the court's mandate; ALL COURTS.
 
It is well past time for the Country to stop this deceitful lying and partisanship and start dealing with ISSUES.  The liberal left have positioned themselves as only obstructionists and have forgone their JOB of legislators and representing their constituents.  The RINO's in Congress are not much better, just more deceitful.  
 
We must put this idiotic political diatribe aside and begin to Protect Our Country from it's enemies; both foreign and more recently domestic.
Leroy Added Jun 26, 2017 - 3:22pm
It is of no small importance either, Jeff.  When Bill Clinton beat the impeachment rap, he came back stronger than ever.  People respect power.  To use a worn out sports analogy--considering this, the Comey testimony, and zero for four in special elections, I'd say the momentum has shifted.  The Democrats are already starting the downplay the Russian connection.  Even that now appears to be a Democratic concoction.  And, strangely enough, Trump's main Republican detractor, John McCain, apparently has some strong Russian connections himself.  The former AG is on the hot seat.  If the Deep State doesn't score soon, it may be a shutout.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 26, 2017 - 3:37pm
Hm. Create refugees but don't take them in. But let Saudis pass no problem. The brothers of IS. Irrational. But they get through with such contradictory shit.
Leroy Added Jun 26, 2017 - 3:49pm
No worry, Stoney.  Switzerland will gladly take them.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 26, 2017 - 4:11pm
Very funny. That's the goal of it. Create war and refugees and let others take them in to cause unrest and racism. How many did the Saudis in ? Their brothers in religion ? None.
 
Seems that the agenda is to make Europe Islamic. Seen their birth rate it will happen in 50 years latest.
 
I still wonder who profits. Surely not hard-core Christians...
Leroy Added Jun 26, 2017 - 4:23pm
No offense, Stoney, but it is your government that is letting them in.  If there is any conspiracy, it is by your government.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 26, 2017 - 4:33pm
Leroy
 
Not really. We have a lot of "green" borders and mountains where they get in. Not that easy to control. Most of them want to go to Germany (THEY let them in), but more too often they stay here. And the countries where they come from don't take them back.
 
We try to stop them, because we're too small to accept that mass. But what can we do when the EU doesn't do anything about it ? All countries around us are in the EU, and apparently there they're welcome there. All those indoctrinated young Muslims.
 
The day will come when we will be forced to take the army rifle out of the cellar for prevention. Every Swiss soldier has his gun at home - that's some millions. But I hope we'll never get to that stage.
 
But: That problem would never had appeared when the ME would have been left alone, without Western intervention. And when the West would have supported Africa in building a job infrastructure in Africa instead of merely exploiting it. Most refugees are economic refugees which would have stayed home when they'd had found a job there.
Leroy Added Jun 26, 2017 - 4:45pm
No doubt Bush the Younger destablized the region and O compounded the problem.  Compounding it again, like you say, is the EU welcoming them.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 26, 2017 - 4:46pm
Yep.
Jeff Michka Added Jun 26, 2017 - 4:57pm
Leroy, the human disposable plastic bag sez: If there is any conspiracy, it is by your government-OOOOOoooo! now yer talking the stuff perfect Priestess JenJen LIVES for: conspiracy!!!  Want to hear all about this one.  Like I asked in another thread, is this where the nuclear war comes in to make it easier for the EU countries to take refugees?  And will "appointed" president Clinton insist they do?
Jeff Jackson Added Jun 26, 2017 - 6:20pm
Leroy I’m all in. My support for Trump was that he wasn’t a member of the political class, and they deeply resent him for it. I hope people do not think I’m all Trump, it is just that he was the lessor of several evils. As I have said, Hillary was in it for Hillary, and I think that her façade of concern for the people finally showed itself.
Jeff Jackson Added Jun 26, 2017 - 6:24pm
Stoney- the fact that the countries they came from won’t let them back in says it all. Certain states that we back that will not take refugees?  Well, that might change, and if anyone can Trump can. Certainly, their fellow bothers in arms and people of religious similarity might have something to do with it, but up until this point, no. Bear in mind, Stoney, that the Palestinians are surrounded by Islamic states, none of which will take them, and that has been happening long before we intervened. What’s the problem? They won’t take their brothers, for reasons too complex to explain here.
George N Romey Added Jun 26, 2017 - 6:25pm
If Trump is to be successful and true to his words of remaking the US economic landscape to bolster a middle class he needs to get in front of this Russian thing, the Deep State and his enemies.  That means telling everything.  Yes that is dangerous.  The last President to go up against the Deep State ended up with a bullet in his head.  
 
There are certain factors not in Trump's favor.  Changing demographics, slowing innovation, $20 trillion in debt, state budgets falling apart, etc. Probably not since FDR and Lincoln has one President been faced with so many landmines.  He's got his work cut out for him.
Jeff Jackson Added Jun 26, 2017 - 6:34pm
Skip, you're right on target, and my thanks. Glad to see some other people see what the political class, or the deep state are doing. Trump said he will clean the swamp, but no one said it would be easy, simple, or quick. They wield a great deal of power, and as explained, bear no responsibility. I would move to impeach the judges who made this insane maneuver, not out of constitutional dedication, but because of their shopworn politically correct agenda to destroy this country.
They (the perpetrators of this resistance to national policy) need to be removed, legally, of course. They had their chance to represent the American public, but instead they chose to represent people from other countries who have no rights, and of which they have no legal authority to represent. They made their choice, and they chose to ignore their responsibilities to the American people and instead chose to try to circumvent policy. I say remove them by any means necessary. If anyone in this debacle was unpatriotic, it was the judges that took it upon themselves to attempt to make policy of which they had zero legal authority. Remove them immediately, and gets someone on those benches who understand their responsibility to the American public.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 26, 2017 - 6:41pm
Jeff Michka Added Jun 26, 2017 - 6:45pm
Well, seems we got a whole bunch of folks vested in the existEnce and plotting by "the Deep State."  Sorry to see J. Jackson in it, but no surprises conspiracy theory sells big on WB.  Mayb Jeff or Geo, with all their business ties, can tell us where deep state players meet and plot, and can tell us where their meeting minutes are kept.
John G Added Jun 26, 2017 - 7:32pm
I stopped reading at the part where you assert that the deep state has a progressive liberal agenda.
You are clueless. The deep state by definition is reactionary.
Jenifer Frost Added Jun 26, 2017 - 7:56pm
I agree with John, if anything the Deep State is a neoliberal creation packed with neoliberals like Hillary Clinton and the Democratic establishment. Plenty of neocons like John McCain in there as well. 
Jeff Jackson Added Jun 26, 2017 - 9:39pm
Sorry Jeff M no conspiracy in the deep state, just a bunch of selfish elites who consider you, me, Mr. Trump and the American electorate a bunch of stooges who should be led by them into the promised land, where they collect all the wealth and regulate us into misery and poverty.
Jeff Michka Added Jun 26, 2017 - 9:49pm
Jeff J sez: Sorry Jeff M no conspiracy in the deep state, just a bunch of selfish elites who consider you,-Whew, I'd thought you'd join the Deep State conspiracy theorists on WB.  If one of them reads this you might be in for a lot of being called names, since "how dare someone NOT BELIEVE EVERY ASPECT OF A DEEP MILLENNIAL THINKER'S "IDEAS" and "flawless logic?"  There's some interesting convergences out there, but not a bunch of them all meeting and plotting the downfall of the world, Clinton appointed pres and the start of WWIII.
Jeff Jackson Added Jun 26, 2017 - 10:59pm
Jeff-"Deep millennial thinkers" love the term. Yes, they're so deep, and we're so shallow. Gotta wonder how the world ever made it without them. I wrote an essay a long time ago on conspiracy theorists, but the website has been modified and I can't find it easily. I've given them great conspiracy ideas, and they stick with the silly ones. Oh well, they make it interesting sometimes. Thanks for the comment. 
DEEP MILLENNIAL THINKER'S
John G Added Jun 27, 2017 - 2:34am
So Jeff Michka thinks that the deep state doesn't exist?
Jenifer Frost Added Jun 27, 2017 - 2:57am
John writes "So Jeff Michka thinks that the deep state doesn't exist?" Yes he's said as much on many occasions. He's ranted that they are a "conspiracy theory" even though none of their actions are secret (but keep in mind that he seems to think that even obvious in-your-face acts are "conspiracies") and none of their organizations are covert, both requirements for actual conspiracies. But Jeff M. is a knuckle-dragging lunatic, it's best to just ignore his rants entirely. Same as with any kind of troll. 
John G Added Jun 27, 2017 - 3:40am
Jackson isn't much better, Jennifer.
Dino Manalis Added Jun 27, 2017 - 9:25am
Trump wants to keep America safe, but it has to be done right.  We should only ban terrorists, not everyone from these six countries, that's why we have to help them establish databases and monitoring systems as soon as possible, in the meantime, we need to do the monitoring ourselves in collaboration with foreign surveillance.
Billy Roper Added Jun 27, 2017 - 9:32am
The Deep State also took a hit when three CNN reporters had to resign over their article being pulled. Neither hit was fatal, though. That would be like trying to kill the cancer in a terminal patient: it's too metasticized.
Jeff Michka Added Jun 27, 2017 - 9:55am
John G asks: So Jeff Michka thinks that the deep state doesn't exist?  Nope not these slathering group of actors Perfect Priestess JenJen wants folks to ruminate about so they just sit and do nothing.  JenJen talk about "them" conspiring, not I, and got real angry when I said I BELIEVED IN THE DEEP STATE planning Hillary as president and starting a nuclear war with Russia as much as I BELIEVE IN SANTA CLAUS AND THE easter bunny.  at that point she just started name calling, and still is.  I've suggested she contact Alex Jones and get some Infowars web page space right with the Sandy Hook school shooting conspiracy.  I think there's just a lot of convergence in agendas.  Other than some minor subject matter changes, what is the difference between one oligarch's agenda and the nest oligarchs agenda?  And she still can't offer how/who/what/or why starting a nuclear war "advantages" the Clinton appointment as president.  huh?  now you got perfect JenJen on your side, John G.  What a lucky person!!!
Jeff Michka Added Jun 27, 2017 - 10:00am
Jeff J notes: "Deep millennial thinkers" love the term. Yes, they're so deep, and we're so shallow. Gotta wonder how the world ever made it without them.-Maybe JenJen will come down from Mount Millennial and tell us...or maybe just some more names to call her naysayers.  Then she can run to Autumn and complain.  She's pulling the name calling crap wanting me to do the same to her so she has a case,  Frankly, calling her "just another conspiracy theorist in the woodpile" seems enough.
Leroy Added Jun 27, 2017 - 10:55am
"The Deep State also took a hit when three CNN reporters had to resign over their article being pulled."
 
James O'keefe strikes again.  It is the final nail in the coffin for the CNN Russian investigation.  He exposed CNN as chasing ratings and following the narrative when they knew the news was fake.  It's not a good time to be a progressive.  Dreams of impeachment are growing ever dimmer.
Jeff Jackson Added Jun 27, 2017 - 3:09pm
The fake news comes out, and many of us expected no less, and the mindless followers of CNN are going, "well, that was only once." It's all over, and fake news is finally getting just a small portion of the trouncing it deserves. I'm reluctant to wish anyone ill, but the three "journalists" who plotted it need to be barred from "reporting" ever again. They understood their obligation, but like so many, they chose to follow their ideology over the truth. Good riddance. I hope not to see their names on any news ever again.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jun 27, 2017 - 5:44pm
Jeff
 
Swimming is a good thing, but sometimes diving is better LOL
wsucram15 Added Jun 27, 2017 - 6:59pm
It is my understanding the legal objection to the travel ban was people that worked or lived here on visas and that was upheld by S.C. for now.  I dont know anything about CNN reporters my BF mentioned it..
I dont know, I just had attorneys ,professors and classmates  I know at the airports.  But I really didnt get that involved with the issue of immigration, except for a meeting at a church here and some protests to calm people down.
Opes Added Jun 28, 2017 - 10:06am
The Veritas video is clear evidence of CNN wrongdoing, but the Deep State doesn't seem to be phased much.
Jeff Jackson Added Jun 28, 2017 - 11:00am
Opes, the deep state will take whatever measures to preserve themselves. They're already lying, so more lies won't matter much. One of the strategies of the deep state members is to remain anonymous, so that no one can actually hold them accountable. The judges (political judges, not law judges, political judges) who attempted to make policy and refute the powers of President Trump could not hide, we know their names.
It is interesting that the media addresses the decisions as Circuit Court 4, but it isn't the Circuit Court, it is judges, who, in my opinion, need to either step down from the bench or be removed, by any means necessary. The Supreme Court decisions had already been made about immigration policy, but like all of the deep state members, the law of the Supreme Court of the United States doesn't mean anything. As I have said, they knew, or should have known, that the decision had already been made. This is the characteristic of the deep state, and that is to make policy whenever they can, no matter if it defies the black-letter law already established. If they really wanted to make policy, at least they could have cited some exception that made Trump's ban unenforceable, but they didn't even do that. They should be held accountable for their brash and unrestrained actions, and removal from the bench would be ideal.
 
Bill Kamps Added Jun 28, 2017 - 12:03pm
Stone, I think you give too much credit, by implying there is a plan.  It is more a matter of people not caring what is the fallout of imprudent practices.
 
The travel restriction will affect a very small number of people, and yet Trump will spin it as some great accomplishment that makes the country incredibly more safe.  While it is common sense to ban people who come from places with barely any functioning government, it is a tiny spec in the overall picture of what keeps us safe.
 
I do agree with Skip that the winner here is the Constitution.  Trump made an executive order, it was challenged, it was modified, it was challenged again, and the SCOTUS upheld it.  We dont do things by dictator edict despite how many  on the left scream Trump is a dictator.
Norton Louis Added Jun 28, 2017 - 12:12pm
Jeff Jackson, thank you for your clear views on this situation.  Unelected bureaucrats and corrupt politicians are increasingly responding to "what's in it for me?" at the cost of our country.  I believe this corruption has always been there in politics and government, but with an increasingly world economy, the positions held by these folks are increasingly against our national interests.  The Trade Deficit sustained for over 20 years to the tune of 17+ Trillion dollars is just one case in point.
 
It's amazing to watch the self-interest of the Deep State play out in the news media.  For thinking people, it is becoming increasingly obvious that to a large extent, good journalism is dead, and most news agencies are taking their byline cues from their ownership.......... giving both ratings and Deep State agenda items preponderance over responsible journalism.
 
The prospect of Draining the Swamp and a President that is not owned by special interests is causing massive upheaval that will not end any time soon.  We should all remain cognizant of the fact that most of the US media is attempting to discredit President Trump; in many cases with outright manufactured news stories.  We should guard against the steady drip of negativity towards Trump and not let it influence our support of the only President in decades to broadly oppose the powerful that work against our national interests since President Kennedy. 
 
It's ironic that since Kennedy's time, many Democratic ideals have become Republican and vice-versa.  Both parties are corrupt however, at their core, and President Trump at this time is literally the leader of the People's Party.
George N Romey Added Jun 28, 2017 - 12:21pm
I still have doubts about Trump's ability and willingness to take on the Deep State, particularly with cabinet members like Mnuchin.  In any event the Deep State will do anything to remain in power.  JFK found out the hard way.  Luckily today we are a less naïve society and information is much easier to impart.  Anyone that believes in the two party system, Washington DC in general, Wall Street, and corporations to implement change is in la la land.
Norton Louis Added Jun 28, 2017 - 12:36pm
George, I have no doubt that Trump will have to play ball with the Deep State in order to start making inroads on key issues......you can't be a complete outsider and effect change.   That dynamic is probably at the root of your doubts.  However, Trump has demonstrated integrity in following through on his campaign promises in many areas.  What's the alternative to trusting the only guy that appears to have what's best for our Country as his core value?  Giving up?  I am making a conscious choice to support Trump because frankly he is the only hope we have at this time to stem the tide of those that would pick America's corpse clean of her wealth.
John G Added Jun 28, 2017 - 2:34pm
Trump is about half as popular as Bernie Sanders. If he's leading the 'people's party' you'd better get some more people.
John G Added Jun 28, 2017 - 2:35pm
Trump has totally surrendered. His campaign rhetoric is dust.
Norton Louis Added Jun 28, 2017 - 3:02pm
John G. Don't underestimate Trump's base.  Also, his activity in office looks nothing like surrender to me.
 
Opinion polls, like voting polls have been proven to be widely inaccurate when it comes to actual votes.  While most have an "opinion" that Trump is unlikable for a variety of reasons, when it comes down to voting for or against "Making America Great Again, I have no doubt Trump will be elected to a second term....particularly if he delivers on Tax Reform and continues to ignite the US economy.
 
Don't get your hopes up about Trump being done.....in every way possible (including opinion polls) this outsider with a platform of reform does not conform to current (corrupt) political convention.   
Jeff Jackson Added Jun 28, 2017 - 3:06pm
Thank you Norton-You are correct that Trump will have to play ball with some of the deep state in order to get things done- that is a given- you can't undo a system overnight and some needed changes are going to have to be done cooperatively. The big thing about this decision was that hopefully people who think of themselves as policy makers should now, (though this is surely not the end of them) realize that they need to clam up. As I have said, the best way for Trump to shut up these imbeciles would be to remove them, although that probably won;t happen. Imagine, though, if enough people wrote their congressman and senators and insisted that they be removed, that they were attempting to make policy without authority or constitutional approval. Imagine if every time one of the deep state showed their faces in their resistance to Trump's policies, we overruled them and then removed them. Talk about cleaning up the swamp...
George N Romey Added Jun 28, 2017 - 3:51pm
I'd say the Democrats are doing everything possible to keep them in the losing seat.  We are tired of hearing about Russia the big boogeyman when Russia seems not to have done anything.  We are tired of hearing about an election that was determine months ago.  Trump isn't get much done and the Democrats keep acting like spoiled children.
Jeff Jackson Added Jun 28, 2017 - 3:57pm
Absolutely George. I was considering an essay on the example of adult behavior that the Democrats are showing right now. Appalling..
Arrbyy Added Jun 28, 2017 - 5:16pm
"progressive liberal agenda" ???
Doug Plumb Added Jun 28, 2017 - 9:19pm
The deep state is a big bird with a left wing and a right wing. One wing is Zionist, the other Bolshevik.
Great article and thanks for the good news, although it isn't great news it is good news.
Jenifer Frost Added Jun 28, 2017 - 9:19pm
Arrbyy writes ""progressive liberal agenda" ???"
Best to just disregard that part of the article. Jeff had too much sugar the day he wrote that. 
Leroy Added Jun 29, 2017 - 8:15am
The only way we are going to progress is if the Deep State is deep sixed.  Hopefully, we are witnessing the beginning of the end.
Jeff Jackson Added Jun 29, 2017 - 8:52am
It will take time, and there will be things that Trump will have to do with them in order to get rid of them. They aren't going to go easily under any circumstances, mostly because they have it too good to leave. As stated, the judges who violated their constitutional authority by blocking the travel ban need to be removed, permanently. We should shroud it in the generosity of allowing them to keep their licenses to practice law, but removing them from the bench, a sort of, "we know you did wrong, but we're not going to completely disable you."  All these heathens will do is to keep putting up obstacles, and we need to remove the obstacles by removing them.
George N Romey Added Jun 29, 2017 - 10:25am
My sense it that is going to take another serious economic calamity to deep six the deep state.  No doubt the central bank and treasury whores will try to pull another multi trillion dollar fast one on the American people to bail out their criminal buddies.  Hopefully next time politicians see a backlash of epic proportions and scares the hell out of them.
Jeff Jackson Added Jun 29, 2017 - 12:27pm
While I hope another financial crisis doesn't happen, that would be a fantastic opportunity to thin out the scoundrels who are making policy they don't have to live with and looking out for their wealthy friends. "From chaos comes order" (Nietzsche) and maybe the new order that will emerge from the chaos will be deep-sixing the deep state; it would be the perfect opportunity. George, I don't think the American public will be as forgiving the next time, especially if it occurs within a short period of time like before 2025.
George N Romey Added Jun 29, 2017 - 1:59pm
Jeff I have to wonder now that "getting Trump" has failed will central bankers and financier types just let the already falling apart global economy just go to put the screws to Trump.  Remember its their financial gimmicks and wizardry that is keeping the joke of an economy going.
Norton Louis Added Jun 29, 2017 - 2:42pm
Jeff - agreed on the American Public not being so forgiving next time the economy blows up.  Change usually happens due to discomfort.....and conversely does not usually arise from comfort.  My grandmother lived through the Great Depression, and habits learned in that time where people struggled to get enough to eat stayed with her during her entire life.
 
Spending money we don't have has been making us comfortable as US Citizens - think of the ever expanding entitlements including health care, for example.  When we run out of financial tricks to keep the deficit-spending going, then that will bring the Chaos that will allow a new Order.
 
Every US family now owes in excess of $150K to the $18 Trillion National Debt.  Big $$$.  If interest rates rise, we'll only have money to service the debt.  Ironic as it sounds, inflation will help us, but we can't seem to get it started with the same alacrity as we have in the past.
 
I am cautiously optimistic that Trump's efforts will help us to minimize the coming down cycle - if it occurs.  If the economy starts really booming again, we may even pull ourselves out of this tailspin without a default (hopeful thinking).   Unintended consequences will abound, however.  We are allies (albeit on a level the Mafia would appreciate) to those we have outsourced a large chunk of our economy - like China.  We may find ourselves in another major power Cold (or even Hot) War as we take back our economy from outsourcing.......we'll see.
 
I'm weary of sharing our economy with the world, however, at the cost of the US economy and jobs.  This is why I support Trump and donated to his campaign.  We have a big job to do to beat back the Deep State.
 
 
 
John G Added Jun 29, 2017 - 2:50pm
Louis. Every US family now owes in excess of $150K to the $18 Trillion National Debt.
Nope. The so called government debt is a private sector asset.
You can't be on both sides of the balance sheet.
Government liabilities = non-government assets.
I'm weary of sharing our economy with the world
No again. The wealthy countries take from the poor countries. The wealth may not be going to you. But that is because your oligarchs are diverting it to themselves.
Norton Louis Added Jun 29, 2017 - 3:09pm
Sorry John... unsustainable debt does not reside comfortably on the balance sheet when it approaches levels that threaten default.  Printing more money to "pay" for the debt devalues the dollar and hurts workers whose salaries never keep up.   One US dollar in 1915 had the same spending power as $2390.00 in 2017.
 
There is no free ride.
 
Countries like Greece that don't print their own currency simply default.  Look at their situation and tell me that debt is an asset.  LOL!  Technically yes, but unemployment is rampant (approaching 25%) and their economy is in a tailspin.  Default is looming.
 
As to the US economy (driven by the US Consumer), we will control our destiny under Trump and not listen to those from other countries that don't want their access to the American consumer reduced in any way.  Deal with it.
Norton Louis Added Jun 29, 2017 - 3:13pm
By the way, the above is why banks that make loans to private sector companies maintain standards by borrowers in the area Debt Ratios.  The US deficit has no such constraints.
Your perception of debt as an asset is incomplete and borders on naïveté.
Norton Louis Added Jun 29, 2017 - 3:25pm
Correction: $US100 in 1915 = $US2390 in 2017 (not one dollar as mentioned above)
George N Romey Added Jun 29, 2017 - 3:46pm
Norton a prospective from my life.  My father was born in 1921 and was raised in the Depression. My grandfather had a job repairing boats with the Coast Guard so he was employed the entire time but my father saw what it did to other families.  He then was dumped into WW2 as a young man but in the war got interested in engineering.  He attended college on the GI bill and got a degree in Engineering and had a successful career.
 
By the time I was in jr high both of my parents saw their careers take off (when we had social mobility in this country) and so my mother talked about moving into a much nicer house, possibly on the water and with an indoor pool.  All of us wanted to move to the most fancy neighborhood in our area but my father absolutely refused saying he never wanted to be around or live next to the super rich.  As a kid and even as a young man I could not understand his sentiment.  After all, shouldn't everyone aspire to be rich and live in a really nice house?
 
Now decades later after witnessing what has happened to this country over the past 15-20 years I understand his beliefs.  Now after spending considerable time studying the Great Depression (which was mostly skipped over in my high school and college) I gotten to understand why Americans then and now have a real hate for the elites, aka as the Deep State.
 
The Deep State eventually took a backseat because FDR threatened their demise if they didn't start to give something back to the masses.  Someday the Middle Class might come roaring back but it will look very different. Middle Class will require a college degree or specialized training and skills and force people to be much more proactive about their careers and employment opportunities.  We likely will never go back to a one working parent household and families will remain much smaller. 
 
 
Norton Louis Added Jun 29, 2017 - 3:58pm
George appreciate your comments.  Yes we took the perception of appearing wealthy to the extreme from our Depression and WWll hard won values....massive credit, McMansions, entitlements, etc.  The bill will come due someday......sooner and more painfully if we don't reject/eject the Deep State.
Jeff Michka Added Jun 29, 2017 - 5:17pm
The Deep Staters have all showed up- From Millennial Priestess JenJen to ol snortin' Norton,  here to tout the influence of The Deep State on everything, but still fail to say why a nuclear war advantages The Deep State or anyone else, or how this will put Clinton in as president. All you folks do is talk about The Deep State. but never give a hint or clue as to what you'll do about it.  So far, nada, save whine.  I guess people like wsucram15 should give up thir activites, not being able to withstand The Deep State.  As I've said, this is the call to surrender and blame shadowy "farces" for all our ills, excusing people from doing anything meaningful to "correct" the circumstance.  Wow, you have become political Geo Romeys, always whining up a storm but failing to ever do anything.  Geo mostly wanted back pats, you folks?  You don't know and have nothing to offer to defeat your enemy, The Deep State.  Makes for good conspiracy taslk, though.  Ask Perfect Priestess JenJen...calling the illuminati...
Jeff Jackson Added Jun 29, 2017 - 8:33pm
I sincerely think that the biggest blow to the deep state was to elect Trump. Certainly, HRC was the candidate of the deep state, otherwise why would they be so adamant about getting Trump out of office? The Supreme Court ruling for Trump was another blow to the deep state, and I think in the next three and one-half years you will see more.
Norton Louis Added Jun 29, 2017 - 9:44pm
HRC spent one billion dollars of other people's money......political donors betting she would  win and maintain the status quo of bothe the Left and Right of open borders, entitlement growth, so-called "free trade", deficit spending and trillion dollar wars to nowhere (picture the bridge to nowhere with our sons and daughters of the Military marching off the end)..
 
Jeff, agreed the Deep State is stinging from their spanking by Trump....more painful moments of realization are in store for the Deep State........I can't wait!
 
The biggest irony of this whole thing to me is that (according to wiki leaks Panetta emails),  HRC and DNC recommmeded to CNN and other "controlled" networks to avidly support so-called "pied piper" Republican Presidential primary candidates to knock off candidates like Jeb Bush........perceived at the time to be potentially stronger oponnents, . At one time during the primaries, Trump could do no wrong on CNN......quite a contrast to today.
 
HRC and CNN outsmarted themselves....hilarious.  We are watching. slow motion voter revolt akin to a civil war..   History is in the making.
Jeff Michka Added Jun 29, 2017 - 11:13pm
Jeff J sez: One of the strategies of the deep state members is to remain anonymous, so that no one can actually hold them accountable.-Guess that's the super top-secret/eyes only reason nobody has mentioned a Deep State planning meeting where all this was thrashed out. eh?  And both Norton and Jeff J suggest Trump is putting it to "THE Deep State."  He barely knows what color to spray himself, let alone this huge conspiracy you keep talking about.-AND We are watching. slow motion voter revolt akin to a civil war..   History is in the making. - Well with one or two exceptions, nobody around WB is doing much of anything, or are just BEING revolting.
Jeff Jackson Added Jun 29, 2017 - 11:41pm
Could you name any appointed person in the BLM (Bureau of Land Management)? I could name dozens of governmental agencies that are run by appointees, who make policy with minimal legislative oversight. Who is the present head of the SEC (Securities and Exchange Commission?) Did you know that the SEC received 125,00 emails requesting that they refuse to apply the Dodd-Frank legislation that requires public corporations publish the salary of the CEO? Yup, they (the SEC) were asked to ignore the law, and the decision made by the committee to enforce the public release of CEO pay was a close vote, only voted to follow the law by two or so votes of the committee. Could you name as many as three of those members of the SEC?
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and I guess I'll have to dig up my essay on conspiracy theorists to convince you. The deep state are elites who run the government and enforce policies that have influence on you and me, and the SEC ruling was only one of many. You could argue that the Dodd-Frank CEO pay was irrelevant, but I buy stocks and I would like to know that the CEO is getting paid before I buy the stock, thank you very much.
I publicly suggested on this website that the judges who ruled against the immigration ban be removed from the bench. I'm not going to march with a sign in front of those courts insisting that the judges be removed, but if enough people feel the same way, perhaps they would have influence, if by no more means than voting for someone like Donald Trump who said he would remove those people who are making decisions counter to the safety and security of American citizens. Doing much anything? Suggesting the deep state people be removed, and voting.
Jeff, I don't have time to carry a sign in front of the court, but I can write on this website as well as write my representatives, and vote for people who feel the same way as I do. If the deep state is, as you suggest, really open, why didn't you see the names of the SEC members who voted to follow the law. Yes, they took it upon themselves as to whether they were going to actually follow the black-letter law. I could go on, but hopefully that situation alone would convince you of their anonymity, as well as their taking it upon themselves as to whether they follow the laws made by our elected legislature. Not a conspiracy, just the deep state, the elites who make policy without regard to the laws passed by our elected representatives. Just one example, there are others. 
John G Added Jun 30, 2017 - 3:49am
Louis. That's just a load of drivel. You're trying to pretend to respond to my comment but you clearly can't.
You're just just stringing a few memes and talking points together to try to sound like you know what you're talking about.
You clearly don't.
The maths is clear.
Every deficit has a corresponding surplus. Every debt has a corresponding credit.
 
George N Romey Added Jun 30, 2017 - 6:12am
As usual the pathetic trolls Jeff Mika and John G add no intellectual thought to the conversation just a put down of others.  I think these two must have gotten beat up a lot in school.
Norton Louis Added Jun 30, 2017 - 8:12am
George agreed.  It's hard to understand what these trolls get out of their mindless, repetitive insults.  
George N Romey Added Jun 30, 2017 - 11:13am
Norton they somehow think they are superior.  Just look at the way they right. But the joke is on them because no one respects what they say and they never provide original thought.  Sad excuses for human beings.
Norton Louis Added Jun 30, 2017 - 12:52pm
George, If you noticed, these guys purport to be US citizens, but the time of day they consistently post comments looks suspiciously like European time to me.  
 
As you so adroitly called out with your comment about being beat up while in school, they exhibit classic signs of an inferiority complex.  They crave attention for the sake of attention, even if it is in response to bad behavior.  This tells me their real lives are so craven that anonymous animus from fellow WB contributors beats no attention at all.  Sad, especially since socialist Europe is supposed to be such a workers paradise......
 
Jeff Michka Added Jun 30, 2017 - 6:24pm
Scion of "Good Manners" and literature, GEO Romey whines:Norton they somehow think they are superior.  Just look at the way they right. LOL right on, Geo the do-nothing.  Yeah, "We must be a plot, " hey Norton... You need someone else to frame things.  You are too obvious.
John G Added Jun 30, 2017 - 10:10pm
To Romey the Schiffbot, straightforward macroeconomic accounting is being insulting.
Proof positive that he knows nothing about economics or the monetary system.
John G Added Jun 30, 2017 - 11:22pm
Louis. George, If you noticed, these guys purport to be US citizens,
More dishonesty from Louis. I have never, ever claimed to be a US citizen. Quite the opposite.
Your beliefs about money and so called government debt are factually wrong. That you see being told so as 'insults' says much about your intellect and maturity.
Jeff Jackson Added Jul 1, 2017 - 12:25pm
Yes, Norton, some here are attempting a post-adolescent power strike because of the frustration they faced previously in life. They were so abused that they cannot focus on anything more than five minutes, so instead of making thoughtful comments they just spew blather and obscenity.
Jeff Michka Added Jul 1, 2017 - 3:28pm
Jeff Jackson blusters: Yes, Norton, some here are attempting a post-adolescent power strike because of the frustration they faced previously in life.- I'm sure if I endorsed this latest conspiracy, I'd get patted on the back, but won't.  And since when is your conspiracy theory not just: comments they just spew blather and obscenity.  You seem to stand up for Norton's declaration all my posts were "full of obscenity" but not true.  Gee you may actually ask yourself why Norton found it so important here? Have a good "deep state" conspiracy!!!
Norton Louis Added Jul 1, 2017 - 3:36pm
Jeff M.  More substance and less scathing hyperbole from you and John G would make your case in a more compelling manner.  Personally, I find boorish behavior to hamper substantive dialogue.  
 
But it it's not about the dialogue so much for both of you than the attention you crave...even if it is negative.  Sad.
Jeff Michka Added Jul 1, 2017 - 3:44pm
Norton Louis tries to claim: But it it's not about the dialogue so much for both of you than the attention you crave...even if it is negative.  Sad.- Uh huh, right.  You are framing again, Norton, trying to de-legitimize your opponents, but will still remain your opponents, conspiracy theorist.  Weren't you going to run for WB's new "sheriff?"  Better bad mouth Autumn by suggestions again, and preen your "expertise," but I'd run quick.  A bunch wanted either a hardcore evangelist or Nazi Tom to run WB when Autumn wanted out a while back.  I'm sure your campaign for "WB sheriff" will be interesting.  Then you'll be able to tell people what to do and think.
Norton Louis Added Jul 1, 2017 - 4:01pm
Jeff M.  You flatter unduly yourself by thinking you are my opponent.  The only way that I even remotely consider you as an opponent is in the area of your uncivil behavior and lack of depth in your comments.  
Donald Swenson Added Jul 1, 2017 - 4:15pm
Who might we identify as part of the Deep State? Does anyone have strong candidates which act as representatives of the Deep State? I think of Henry Kissinger as a Deep State operative. I think of George Soros as a Deep State operative. But who else might be added to this list? D
Jeff Jackson Added Jul 1, 2017 - 5:22pm
Identity of the deep state: SEC committee who voted on whether to actually follow the law, as outlined by Dodd-Frank on revealing CEO pay. Deep state: Judges who attempt to make policy when they have no constitutional authority to do so. These are the deep state people who make policy without authorization.
Could you name any appointed person in the BLM (Bureau of Land Management)? I could name dozens of governmental agencies that are run by appointees, who make policy with minimal legislative oversight. Who is the present head of the SEC (Securities and Exchange Commission?) Did you know that the SEC received 125,00 emails requesting that they refuse to apply the Dodd-Frank legislation that requires public corporations publish the salary of the CEO? Yup, they (the SEC) were asked to ignore the law, and the decision made by the committee to enforce the public release of CEO pay was a close vote, only voted to follow the law by two or so votes of the committee. Could you name as many as three of those members of the SEC?
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and I guess I'll have to dig up my essay on conspiracy theorists to convince you. The deep state are elites who run the government and enforce policies that have influence on you and me, and the SEC ruling was only one of many. You could argue that the Dodd-Frank CEO pay was irrelevant, but I buy stocks and I would like to know that the CEO is getting paid before I buy the stock, thank you very much.
I publicly suggested on this website that the judges who ruled against the immigration ban be removed from the bench. I'm not going to march with a sign in front of those courts insisting that the judges be removed, but if enough people feel the same way, perhaps they would have influence, if by no more means than voting for someone like Donald Trump who said he would remove those people who are making decisions counter to the safety and security of American citizens. Doing much anything? Suggesting the deep state people be removed, and voting.
John G Added Jul 1, 2017 - 5:53pm
John G would make your case in a more compelling manner.
I just gave you some macroeconomic facts and you skated over them and then pretended that I'd insulted you.
Romey channels nut jobs like Peter Schiff and insults anybody who doesn't follow his wild Fed conspiracy theories.
Here is a macroeconomic fact for you: the net Federal government 'debt' exactly equals the non-government's net US$ financial assets.
Government liabilities are non-government assets.
Too abusive for you?
Norton Louis Added Jul 1, 2017 - 6:13pm
John G agreed on your debt/asset comment as you narrowly define it.  Debt becomes a problem however when it can no longer be serviced without draconian sacrifices in other areas.  This is why most private banks pay attention to a borrowing company's debt ratios to ensure the company does not acquire so much debt that the company becomes unviable as a business entity and is unable to pay the debt back.
 
This can be true for countries as well; especially those  that do not print their own currency to devalue their debt.  Case in point; Greece.  When companies and countries default, the "asset" of debt becomes a loss for the debt holder.  Elementary right?   When insolvency looms, it begins a cascade effect of increasingly poor economic conditions for the borrower. Car in point; Greece.  Every major economic measure in Greece is reporting a death spiral of the economy.
 
You are choosing to focus on the narrow definition of debt vs asset without admitting the reality that too much debt creates adverse conditions from cuts in core spending (to service debt) to declining confidence within financial networks.  
 
Why do you appear to be in favor of endless deficit spending?  There is no free ride...somebody must pay eventually.  Given that you are from Europe, I might accuse you of wishing the American dollar harm to raise your own prospects on the imperiled euro.
John G Added Jul 1, 2017 - 6:25pm
We're not talking about the Eurozone. That's a red herring.
And you have clearly not absorbed the macroeconomic facts.
Without debt there is no money. But government debt to a currency issuer is not debt as you understand it.
 
Why do you appear to be in favor of endless deficit spending?  
I favour running the economy at close to full capacity with price stability. In most western nations that necessitates deficits as standard practice. The fiscal position in and of itself is irrelevant.
 
There is no free ride...somebody must pay eventually.
No. Money is created from zero and it returns to zero. It is virtual and infinite. So called government debt never has to be 'paid off'. When a bond matures there is merely a ledger entry from the Treasury side to the Reserves side. That's it. Just accounting entries.
 
I am not from Europe.
John G Added Jul 1, 2017 - 6:27pm
I might accuse you of wishing the American dollar harm to raise your own prospects on the imperiled euro.
That tells me a lot about you mind set. 
I'm giving you facts.
Norton Louis Added Jul 1, 2017 - 6:37pm
John G, A narrow range of facts as you have offered many times on WB concerning assets/debt make for an incomplete picture.  Quoting one rule of a balance sheet is ludicrous to back an opinion that there is no such thing as too much debt.  This is the type of thinking that leads to insolvency.  The 2008 Real Estate Bust is a good case in point.  Your trick of endless debt worked until it stopped working.
 
In the end, there is no free ride...for anyone.  Somebody always has to pay.
John G Added Jul 1, 2017 - 6:43pm
You are confusing and conflating private debt and government 'debt'. They are 2 entirely different animals.
The private sector uses government liabilities aka dollars that the government has spent into existence.
I have not expressed the opinion that you claim. That's just a strawman tactic.
High private debt levels are economically dangerous and cause recessions and depressions because they drain private sector consumption to debt servicing. 
John G Added Jul 1, 2017 - 6:48pm
Without debt there is no money.
Norton Louis Added Jul 1, 2017 - 6:52pm
Greece is an excellent case in point that countries are subject to the same rules of too much debt as private companies.
 
Greece is on the road to default.  Countries that print their own currency devalue it when introducing more currency is used as a tool to hold more debt.
 
Debt, whether private or public in nature is the same....somebody always has to pay.  There is no free ride.  As the US approaches 24 Trillion in debt, you'll see some major shifts in financial markets worldwide due to what will have become an unhealthy debt ratio.
John G Added Jul 1, 2017 - 7:02pm
Greece is a currency user. It is not relevant to the USA.
A currency issuer like the USA does not borrow money. 
You just keep repeating your mantra because you don't understand.
The federal government's net debt (about $13 trillion iirc) is the net financial assets of the non-government sector.
The $US is a floating exchange rate currency. It does not 'devalue' and its exchange rate is irrelevant to the notional amount of theliabilities it can issue i.e. spend.
Donald Swenson Added Jul 1, 2017 - 7:05pm
Our currency $$$$$ is virtual. But the issue of too much debt is a reality. Why? Sentiment and confidence determine when enough is enough. John thinks that debt can continue forever. This mindset ignores the psychology of debt. At some point trader confidence will set of the short selling key. That's when the debt implosion will occur. D
Donald Swenson Added Jul 1, 2017 - 7:07pm
The implosion is likely in 2017 IMO. D
John G Added Jul 1, 2017 - 7:12pm
Nonsense. Taxation drives demand for the currency. As long as the US has the institutions to enforce taxation in its own currency there will be a demand for $US.
People aren't going to stop accepting state currency (government liabilities aka money) for trade.
Donald Swenson Added Jul 1, 2017 - 7:17pm
Confidence rules over psychological markets. Always has... always will. D
John G Added Jul 1, 2017 - 7:19pm
Nope. Tax drives money. Your religious beliefs are irrelevant.
Norton Louis Added Jul 1, 2017 - 7:35pm
To paraphrase a saying, debt is great until your run out of other people's money to pay for it.
 
There is a tipping point for any economy when increased taxation hampers optimal economic functioning .  John, you tend to focus only on areas of the balance sheet that support your arguments and ignore the cohesive whole of what is required for a healthy economy.
John G Added Jul 1, 2017 - 7:40pm
Government spending creates the money that pays the taxes.
So, nope.
Margaret Thatcher was an economic illiterate. Currency issuing governments can't run out of money and the money that they spend they create from thin air.
These are facts.
John G Added Jul 1, 2017 - 7:48pm
John, you tend to focus only on areas of the balance sheet that support your arguments and ignore the cohesive whole of what is required for a healthy economy.
I'm trying to get the basics of the system across to you. You can't have a cohesive whole if your basic assumptions are false.
 
Norton Louis Added Jul 1, 2017 - 8:08pm
Well one thing about WB is that it has hardened my resolve to oppose those that would take the US and the rest of the world over a financial cliff.
 
Its frightening to think there are plenty of people willing to play the endless debt game of musical chairs right along with John believing that debt is somehow at its root illusory and ergo carries no obligation for repayment.
 
We we need to clone Rand Paul....quickly!
John G Added Jul 1, 2017 - 8:10pm
How do you think a dollar comes into existence?
John G Added Jul 1, 2017 - 8:14pm
along with John believing that debt is somehow at its root illusory and ergo carries no obligation for repayment.
And there you go putting words into my mouth again. Strawmen arguments and ad hominem seem to be the lingua franca of the right.
John G Added Jul 1, 2017 - 8:17pm
We we need to clone Rand Paul.
The Austrian School and their 'libertarian' disciples would have the economy in a deflationary depression in no time were they to be given the levers of power.
It is the partial imposition of their ideas that have brought us to where we are.
Norton Louis Added Jul 1, 2017 - 8:31pm
John, it's the meddling of the US Fed and the hawking of complex financial derivatives by banks that distorts the underlying value of the dollar.  As to value, the base idea is an equal exchange (I.e. Labor for food) held in the minds of many.  Impossible now to gauge this equal exchange with the games we play with the Fed and the markets.  We have increasing been playing with fire since leaving the Gold Standard.  It's not a matter of if, but when the overvalued world economy will collapse back to something that better reflects its true value. 
 
I head one economist speak recently and his assertions was for various reasons the world economy is currently overvalued by about a factor of four .
 
But hey, debt is an asset- right??  Lol!
John G Added Jul 1, 2017 - 8:41pm
You are being dull. 
Every debt has a corresponding credit. That's what a debt is.
Money has no intrinsic value so your statement is moot. Money is not barter.
I can't imagine what 'the value of an economy' could mean. As a concept it is a nonsense.
I've tried to teach you some basics but you appear determined to not understand. It is simple arithmetic that you are denying. 
Well done.
John G Added Jul 1, 2017 - 8:43pm
Your debt is someone else's asset.
The government's debt is the private sector's asset.
Simple double entry balance sheet accounting.
Norton Louis Added Jul 1, 2017 - 8:50pm
John I don't disagree with the basic accounting principals, but I do disagree with the perception that because of how we deal with debt on a balance sheet, somehow not exceeding certain debt ratio thresholds is unimportant.
 
Greece felt this way.  Their citizenry produced less and less on a per capita basis over time in response to all of the "free money" and now they are marooned with no way but cut-to-the-bone sacrifice left to avoid default on their country.
 
Its just not as cut and dried as you'd like to make out it is in my opinion, but great debate!  Thank you.
Jeff Michka Added Jul 1, 2017 - 9:02pm
I'm curious as to what all the WB economists think of the Kansas state @ Missouri think of folks like their Bill Black?
John G Added Jul 1, 2017 - 9:07pm
As noted earlier Greece is irrelevant to the USA. You clearly can't understand the basic premise of money.
 
Greece's problem is being in the Euro.
Ironically Greece's problem can be easily explained using sectoral balance sheet macroeconomics. It has a trade deficit with (particularly) Germany but no way to replace the drain on savings that that represents because there is no government currency issuer.
Nothing to do with productivity or 'free money'.
(I – S) + (G – T) + (X – M) = 0
 
It's a shame you don't wish to understand. It's not that difficult. My kids understood it all by the time they were 12ish.
John G Added Jul 1, 2017 - 9:09pm
The interest on so called Federal government debt is private sector income. Your rich people would scream blue murder if you took that away from them. 
It happened in Australia
Norton Louis Added Jul 1, 2017 - 9:32pm
You make a good case for addressing the US Trade Deficit.  
 
I would settle for not adding to our National Debt at this time and tecognize it won't be paid down any time soon.
 
Greece demonstrates what happens when debt ratios are allowed to swing too far in the debt area, regardless of the euro.  Debt ratio is also a fundamental premise of a healthy balance sheet.
 
Diluting currency is one way to pay it back the national debt, but the US consumer ends up paying anyway with reduced buying power.
 
Again not disagreeing with basic accounting principals but still maintain that when it comes to massive debt, the game gets much riskier and there are costs to confidence that have economic impact not predicted by balance sheets.
 
 
John G Added Jul 1, 2017 - 9:36pm
I'm curious as to what all the WB economists think of the Kansas state @ Missouri think of folks like their Bill Black?
I'm an MMT person. MMT describes the actual functioning reality of a modern fiat monetary system.
UMKC is where the best economics in the USA is being done.
John G Added Jul 1, 2017 - 10:05pm
I would settle for not adding to our National Debt at this time and tecognize it won't be paid down any time soon.
Attempting a fiscal balance in the US would be disastrous. It would drive the economy back into recession.
And it would widen the deficit anyway.
There's no such thing as 'diluting currency' and the 'national debt' doesn't get 'paid down'.
You haven't understood a single thing that I've said.
Norton Louis Added Jul 1, 2017 - 10:15pm
John I recognize is took us the better part of 30 years to get to this place and it will take time to get out.  However we can't keep adding to the national debt at the rate we did under Obama and expect to keep our economy.  There is a balance to be struck between debt increase and economic growth that we'll need to strike to begin a decades crawl out of this hole.
John G Added Jul 1, 2017 - 10:21pm
The 'national debt' is national savings. Do you want to drain private savings?
Do you want more private sector debt to grow the economy?
Norton Louis Added Jul 1, 2017 - 10:36pm
Do you want to spend most of our annual national budget on servicing out of control debt if interest rates rise?
John G Added Jul 1, 2017 - 10:41pm
The government has complete control of the interest it pays on Treasuries. That's one reason they issue them i.e. to hit their target interest rates.
Again, that interest is private sector income. It's not your budget btw. 
So why do you want to drain the private sector of its savings and reduce its income?
 
John G Added Jul 2, 2017 - 1:58am
I've asked you two straight forward questions that you've failed to answer.
And you complain that others are rude.
Your tone policing appears to be a tactic.
Norton Louis Added Jul 2, 2017 - 12:17pm
John sorry for the delay in answering.....I do have a life outside of WB.
 
As to "tone policing", is it really hard to believe that civility is important to others?  
 
 The answer to most of your questions for me is essentially "everything in moderation".  Do I want to drain the private sector of its savings and reduce its income?  Of course not.  I merely want to moderate out of control deficit spending in Washington DC where a reduction in the rate of growth is considered to be a draconian cut that  "will kill people".  
 
I want to augment our incomes by using our leverage with other countries more intelligently to address trade deficits.
 
I want to decentralize the inefficiencies of a "one size fits all" bloated federal bureaucracy and cede more decision making and spending to the local and state level.
 
In short, business as usual in this country is not working for me.  I recognize we will have to add to our national debt with tax reform to pull ourselves out of this mess we are in.  Paying down the national debt would make things worse without also acting on the other measures Trump is advocating, including restoring nationalism and preventing Corporations from acts that enrich themselves while weakening the Country.
 
Mindlessly allowing the National Debt to bloom without reform will land us in a place where we don't want to be either.  There is no free ride.
Norton Louis Added Jul 2, 2017 - 12:57pm
Oh and by the way.....our Social Security Trust fund owns most of the National Debt (though China gets a lot of press for their 2-3 Trillion).  I don't want to make it easy for politicians to deficit-spend ourselves to the point we're faced with writing down some or all of that debt.  My perception is that Washington already views that money as "gone" to some extent and does not have the same black and white view of double entry accounting that you do.  You are correct in principal though, but most "owned" politicians base their principals on what their owner- deep state donors want and what they also need to do to be reelected.  "Principals" and politicians are not generally synonomous with each other, though Trump is increasingly forcing many to choose to do the right thing.
 
Put another way, that is MY social security money DC has invested in our National Debt.  I am not happy at the rate of return we're getting compared to the stock market, and I am increasingly looking at this as a bad investment that my give me limited or no returns by the time I am ready to retire. 
 
If my Social Security Trust fund were a 401K, I would have already moved the bulk of it away from low-yield, high risk National Debt investment.
John G Added Jul 2, 2017 - 2:49pm
 There is no free ride.
You seem to have based your thinking on a slogan rather than factual economics and maths.
Your expectations and remedies are pie in the sky. 
Jeff Michka Added Jul 2, 2017 - 2:58pm
John G sez: UMKC is where the best economics in the USA is being done.- So it seems, and also seems you know your economics, Romey and Norton are mere posers.  Romey wants back pats; Norton wants ego boosts. 
Norton Louis Added Jul 2, 2017 - 4:24pm
Well "uninformed' guys like me elected Trump so we'll see whose theories Make America Great Again.....
 
Happy Indepedence Day! Down with the Deep State!
Jeff Michka Added Jul 2, 2017 - 6:30pm
Norton the salesman/marketer Louis sez:Well "uninformed' guys like me elected Trump so we'll see whose theories Make America Great Again...-Love your personal branding.  Happy Indepedence Day! Down with the Deep State! - Wishing you Happy enslavement and deprivation.  Can't wait til I get my Deep State AND George Soros paychecks so I CAN SEND THEM to Bill Clinton...idiot.
Norton Louis Added Jul 2, 2017 - 7:45pm
Well Jeff M, we can always count on you for mockery and name-calling.  Have you ever heard of the psychological term of "projection"?  Look it up.  You betray your insecurities with your comments. 
John G Added Jul 3, 2017 - 2:54am
Romey has ad hominem to support his wacky gold bug rantings.
If I disagree with him, I must have been bullied at school.
I played open side flanker for my high school's first XV rugby team for 3 years. I was the youngest player in the competition for 2 of those years.
Believe me, I was never, ever bullied at school.
Norton Louis Added Jul 3, 2017 - 11:37am
Jeff M you obviously did not look up the psychological term of "projection".
 
Negative experiences at school are not the only potential driver of insecurity as an adult.  A severely negative experience of any kind can cause us to compensate for trauma in ways that may cause us problems.
 
Name calling and insults often give us clues to how the person initiating those acts feels about him/herself.  Every heated accusation is potentially a window into who YOU are as a result of trying to deal with a traumatic situation that happened earlier in your life by yourself.
 
All kidding aside, and I mean this genuinely, you might want to consider some counseling.
 
Peace.
Jeff Michka Added Jul 4, 2017 - 6:44pm
Have you ever heard of the psychological term of "projection"?  Look it up.  You betray your insecurities with your comments.- Still "framing" Mr. salesman.  Gee, perhaps it's that I don't like what you say.  You can't help you're wrapped in your ego. 
 
No peace.  You are a pretentious jerk.
Donald Swenson Added Jul 4, 2017 - 7:05pm
The unexamined life is not worth living, so says Socrates. I agree. D
Jeff Michka Added Jul 5, 2017 - 5:22pm
Norton "Mad Men is no longer on TV" CLAIMS: Every heated accusation is potentially a window into who YOU are as a result of trying to deal with a traumatic situation that happened earlier in your life by yourself.-Uh huh, Mr. used car salesman.  When you conspiracy theories got holed. and you made your ego more important than anything, you've resorted to "Kindly Sherriff Louis", giving advice about "my traumas" when your paranoia is on display, and that reflects on "my background." All your "wisdom" can't be saved by simply painted your opposition as crazy, jerk off. Your conspiracy theory buddy, Perfect Priestess JenJen already slandered me that way when I TOLD HER WHAT i told you:  your Deep State conspiracy is believable as much as Santa Claus and the EASTER bunny.  SEE? They did get mentioned again.  Better give Autumn more of your outrageously condescending "marketing advice" while you're at it.  AND "All kidding aside, and I mean this genuinely, you might want to consider some counseling." OH YES, sheriff!! If you command it, and now I'll give you a bit of what you accused me of falsely:  Fuck off, Louis.  I suspect you hear that a lot.
 
 
Norton Louis Added Jul 5, 2017 - 6:43pm
Jeff M.  This link is to a lighthearted and well written book that may help give you some perspective on your behavior on WB.
Donald Swenson Added Jul 5, 2017 - 7:20pm
Government debt and private debt will grow until our markets crash. Keynesian economics is based upon credit/debt forever. It's a one-way street and the Authorities MUST keep the debt/credit game going until confidence crashes and our markets crash. This could be soon or maybe months away. No one knows on planet Earth. All I can do is wait and watch. Check out: www.usdebtclock.org. D
Jeff Michka Added Jul 5, 2017 - 9:48pm
Norton "Mr, Marketing" Louis tries: some perspective on your behavior on WB. Good try, Norty!! You've worked very hard to DEFLECT the substance of this comment thread from being, originally, about your BS fear-mongering The Deep State Conspiracy Theory; so lacking any real answers, you needed to make it about me, instead. No I won't look at your forgone conclusion link and waste my time, but will ask you to to back to the BS about how the Deep State is made up of SEC and BLM. Wow!!! Real powerhouses that can manipulate politics, install Hillary as President, and start WWIII. That crap IS ALL YOURS and other conspiracy believers, Nort. And nary a factual link, which says volumes about your conspiracy. Alex Jones would be so proud!! Well, are we back to the Deep State cabal, or you want to continue making this all about me? Maybe your pard, priestess JenJen can join you since she's released her next "conspiracy," again, a 9/11 TRUTHER conspiracy. "Conspiracies" are so loved by Millennials like her since it's instant reason not to do anything, AND LIKE YOU, TRY AND BE BIG DEALS online by "leading the way". You were just unhappy about being made fun of...You cultivated Nazis as "good discussion, " but refuse to wear it. They're bloody Nazis, Nort, not "normal" people.
Jeff Michka Added Jul 5, 2017 - 9:52pm
Your Deep State conspiracy is believable as much as Santa Claus and the EASTER bunny.-PROBABLY OUGHT TO THROW IN Tooth Fairy for balance, as well as add
"weight" to your conspiracy.
Norton Louis Added Jul 5, 2017 - 10:10pm
Jeff M. not sure what you are talking about, but its obvious talking to you in any way at all just encourages you to write more wacky stuff. 
Norton Louis Added Jul 6, 2017 - 12:22am
In other words, we need a sign on WB that says "Don't Feed the Trolls"
John G Added Jul 6, 2017 - 12:30am
If you took as much time to get informed as you do engaged intone policing, ad hominem and other anti-intellectual trickery, you'd be a better person.
When it comes to money and government you don't know what you're talking about. You're a useful idiot of the oligarchy.
Norton Louis Added Jul 6, 2017 - 10:23am
John G.  Nice attempt at a  reversal.  If you look at every single comment I have ever made on WB, you will not find a single swear word, or an ad hominem (personal) attack. 
 
Jeff M. however, employs these things in nearly every comment.  My focus on the reason he seems to be such an SOB  on WB was intended to help him and the rest of us that have to see his actions......the first step to recovery is admitting there may be a problem after all.
 
Don't worry, I won't make this mistake in the future.  I've learned my lesson; a response of any kind whether well intended or not just feeds the flames. 
 
Don't Feed the Trolls.
 
My apologies to the author of this article for hijacking the dialogue.
Jeff Michka Added Jul 6, 2017 - 12:16pm
Norton "I'm so wonderful" Louis goes on and on:  You still haven't responded to your conspiracy theory issues and still want to make me the focus of this thread. You apology to Jeff Jackson, like your other comment, lack sincerity. AND norty goes on: I won't make this mistake in the future.  I'm sure you won't spend any more time defending or explaining your cheap conspiracy theories, "Sheriff."  You still haven't ran for being the new sheriff in WB.  Hey WBers were all for turning WB over to a Nazi or irrational Xtain evangelist.  So they may be willing to demand you be installed as "the cop on the beat," keeping them "safe from trolls."I think anyone reading this thread will agree you've just continued to deflect as noted, trying to make me the object instead of you BS theories you obviously can't defend.  Classic "Facebook" tactics, I've been told.
Donald Swenson Added Jul 6, 2017 - 12:43pm
We all have different beliefs and views. This reveals our uniqueness. There is no need for us to agree on all issues. My worldview is unique and I expect disagreement on some issues. John seems to desire that only his view is valid. This is an unrealistic attitude IMO. D
Jeff Michka Added Jul 6, 2017 - 6:38pm
John G COULDN'T BE FOOLED, noting to norty: If you took as much time to get informed as you do engaged intone policing, ad hominem and other anti-intellectual trickery- That's all norty has, John G.  He's "clever" and thinks he'll fool everyone, using the Halley's comet deception.  "Oh, look! [points to the sky] Halley's comet," and every one will look and forget the original thread he can't/won't defend, knowing it will sound even sillier than it originally did.  Norty has heavily vested himself in "the Deep State conspiracy theory".  One wonders if he thinks he'll benefit from his lack of substance and "all seeing eye" he thinks he has.  Remember folks, it was Norty's "Deep state conspiracy theory" being discussed here, not me, as he would like it to be as a distraction from a failed theory. Norty: corncob, post chickens.
John G Added Jul 6, 2017 - 6:57pm
Louis. If you look at every single comment I have ever made on WB, you will not find a single swear word, or an ad hominem (personal) attack. 
Lolz. If you scroll up you'll read yourself engaging in an ad hominem attack against me and Michka along with the ad hominem specialist Romey.
Swearing is just words. What you and Romey engage in is worse. It's intellectual fraud.
Saint George Added Jul 16, 2017 - 11:23pm
 It's intellectual fraud.
 
Takes a fraud to know a fraud.
Donald Swenson Added Jul 16, 2017 - 11:59pm
I maintain that having different points-of-view is not all bad. Why do we need to agree on every detail. John has his perspective and it would be wise if John would allow alternative perspectives. What I witness is a desire from John (his comments) that we must agree with him on all the essentials. This is totally unrealistic!!! 
Donald Swenson Added Jul 17, 2017 - 12:02am
I teach economics and monetary history. I find that each and every student will discover and then comprehend the issues of economics uniquely. Some comprehend the big picture quickly and others prefer to focus on less strenuous issues. Take the issue of 'what is money'? Is there room for many points-of-view? I think so!
Jeff Michka Added Jul 17, 2017 - 9:33pm
CAREFUL, Swenson....the Deep State is listening!! They're everywhere!!