Himmler's Posen Speech

Heinrich Himmler's Speech at Posen is considered to be one of the most blatant examples of a leader of the Third Reich admitting to the Genocide of Europe's Jews. Holocaust deniers scoff at this, saying that either the bit that Himmler discusses is fake or that the word Himmler uses for "extermination" is mistranslated.

 

The controversy centers around this phrase:

"Ich meine die "Judenevakuierung": die Ausrottung des jüdischen Volkes.

 

Translation:

" I am talking about the "Jewish evacuation": the extermination of the Jewish people."

 

The key, of course, is the German word "Ausrottung."  It's translated as "extermination" but deniers refuse to accept that translation.  It's translated as "rooted out" or something similar, never extermination.

 

I actually think we need to look at additional phrases of the speech to get the context.  You can see all of the speech fully translated here:

http://codoh.com/library/document/891/

Now, our resident deniers need not fret, CODOH (Committee for the Open Debate on the Holocaust) is a denier site, the forum is essentially a denier echo chamber (I'm a member, BTW).

 

Now, Himmler talks about a multitude of subjects and breaks these down into subjects.  This makes sense.  

 

For example, this is what he talked about at the very beginning of the speech, entitled "The Situation in the Fifth Year of the War:"

 

"I have considered it necessary to call you all together, the High Leadership Corps of the SS and Police, now at the beginning of the fifth year of the war, which will be a very difficult year of the war. Hard-headed, as we always were, in a spirit of respect for the truth with regards to ourselves, there are several things which we wish to discuss at this Troop Leadership Conference. Just as I was accustomed to do in long years of peace, I wish to describe the situation as I see it, in as few words as possible, with regards to our responsibilities and that which we have already achieved and accomplished, as well as with regards to that which stands before us to be accomplished in the future."

 

Fairly standard stuff, Himmler is setting up what he wants to discuss.  During the speech Himmler ranges over a wide series of subjects.  My point is that Himmler discusses each subject on it's own, he doesn't cross reference partisans with the psychology of the Slavs.

 

Now, back to what he says about the Jews:

 

"I want to mention another very difficult matter here before you in all frankness. Among ourselves, it ought to be spoken of quite openly for once; yet we shall never speak of it in public. Just as little as we hesitated to do our duty as ordered on 30 June 1934, and place comrades who had failed against the wall and shoot them, just as little did we ever speak of it, and we shall never speak of it. It was a matter of course, of tact, for us, thank God, never to speak of it, never to talk of it. It made everybody shudder; yet everyone was clear in his mind that he would do it again if ordered to do so, and if it was necessary.

 

I am thinking now of the evacuation of the Jews, the extirpation (CODOH translation, I find it amusing they used "extirpation, it really means the same as "extermination") of the Jewish people. It is one of those things that's easy to say: "The Jewish people will be extirpated" , says every Party comrade, "that's quite clear, it's in our programme: elimination of the Jews, extirpation ; that's what we're doing." And then they all come along, these 80 million good Germans, and every one of them has his decent Jew. Of course, it's quite clear that the others are pigs, but this one is one first-class Jew. Of all those who speak this way, not one has looked on; not one has lived through it. Most of you know what it means when 100 bodies lie together, when 500 lie there, or if 1,000 lie there. To have gone through this, and at the same time, apart from exceptions caused by human weaknesses, to have remained decent, that has made us hard. This is a chapter of glory in our history which has never been written, and which never shall be written; since we know how hard it would be for us if we still had the Jews, as secret saboteurs, agitators, and slander-mongers, among us now, in every city — during the bombing raids, with the suffering and deprivations of the war. We would probably already be in the same situation as in 1916/17 if we still had the Jews in the body of the German people.

 

The riches they had, we've taken away from them. I have given a strict order, which SS Group Leader Pohl has carried out, that these riches shall, of course, be diverted to the Reich without exception. We have taken none of it. Individuals who failed were punished according to an order given by me at the beginning, which threatened: he who takes even one mark of it, that's his death. A number of SS men — not very many — have violated that order, and that will be their death, without mercy. We had the moral right, we had the duty to our own people, to kill this people which wanted to kill us . But we don't have the right to enrich ourselves even with one fur, one watch, one mark, one cigarette, or anything else. Just because we eradicated a bacillus, after all, doesn't mean we want to be infected by the bacillus and die. I will never permit even one little spot of corruption to arise or become established here. Wherever it may form, we shall burn it out together. In general, however, we can say that we have carried out this most difficult task out of love for our own people. And we have suffered no harm to our inner self, our soul, our character in so doing."

 

That entire section is about what happened with the Jews.  Now, deniers hem and haw about meanings and translations but to me the key is not the word meaning "extermination" or "evacuation."  To me the true keys are this paragraph in the beginning:

 

"I want to mention another very difficult matter here before you in all frankness. Among ourselves, it ought to be spoken of quite openly for once; yet we shall never speak of it in public."

 

Remember, Himmler spoke about Jews in this section.  Why the secrecy if this was about "expelling" or "deporting?"  The Nazis openly deported Jews, it was no secret.  In fact, public opinion halted the deportations in Bulgaria and later stopped the deportations in Hungary.

 

  "Just as little as we hesitated to do our duty as ordered on 30 June 1934, and place comrades who had failed against the wall and shoot them, just as little did we ever speak of it, and we shall never speak of it."

 

Himmler is specifically talking about the "Night of the Long Knives," the purge and murder of the SA leadership, among others.  Himmler is specifically linking the murders of June 30th, 1934 as a duty and linking this "duty" to what is happening to the Jews of Europe.

 

"It was a matter of course, of tact, for us, thank God, never to speak of it, never to talk of it. It made everybody shudder; yet everyone was clear in his mind that he would do it again if ordered to do so, and if it was necessary."

 

So, this "duty" was unpleasant but if it became necessary they would do it again, linking back to Jews.

 

Taken from the second paragraph:

 

"Most of you know what it means when 100 bodies lie together, when 500 lie there, or if 1,000 lie there.

 

That is self explanatory.  Again, Himmler is only talking about Jews.

 

"To have gone through this, and at the same time, apart from exceptions caused by human weaknesses, to have remained decent, that has made us hard. This is a chapter of glory in our history which has never been written, and which never shall be written"

 

Again, no mystery here.  If this was about expulsion, why can't this be celebrated and written about?

 

Third paragraph:

 

"Just because we eradicated a bacillus, after all, doesn't mean we want to be infected by the bacillus and die."

 

The paragraph talks about corruption but again, it's an odd turn of phrase.  Do you deport or expel a bacillus?  No, the body fights a bacillus and kills it.  This is simply a different type of war, against an infection that needs to be killed.

 

So, to me, it isn't about the translation of a single word, it's about the whole context of what Himmler is said.  He links a previous episode where the SS killed its opponents and refers to Jews as a "bacillus."  How could anyone mistake that as "evacuation" or "deportation?"

 

Comments

Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 27, 2017 - 3:19pm
http://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/himmler-poznan/speech-text.shtml
 
I pulled the German and English translation from the above website.
 
phdn.org is an excellent, I do mean excellent, resource.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 27, 2017 - 3:22pm
For those who need more information, this is about the "Night of the Long Knives:"
 
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/nazi-germany/the-night-of-the-long-knives/
Jeff Michka Added Jul 27, 2017 - 3:38pm
Thanks for the resources and cites, Jeffrey K.  Worth sharing with "doubters," you know, deniers still "on the fence."
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 27, 2017 - 3:44pm
Thank you, Jeff, I really do recommend phdn.org.  Their documents are first rate and I like the German and English translations.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 27, 2017 - 4:18pm
Not really the point, Tom.  Himmler specifically talked about extermination, the eradication of the Jews.  This was different than the atrocities the SS (and others) commited against Poles or Soviets.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 27, 2017 - 4:46pm
C.W. Porter, noted denier and obsessor over steam chambers translated the document from CODOH, Tom.
 
But, as I said, you have to look at context.  Himmler is specifically talking about killing.  When you match that with other evidence it leads to extermination.  Himmler talked about "eradicating a bacillus."  He spoke of the need for secrecy and equated it to another unpleasant duty, the murders committed on the "Night of the Long Knives."  That's deliberate, Tom.  That's covering something up.
 
Tom, look, I realize I'll never persuade you.  That's not the point.  I'm giving you an opportunity to see what I have and comment or refute.  I'm giving others an opportunity to learn something they didn't know and give resources to people that need or want them.
Saint George Added Jul 27, 2017 - 4:59pm
these men came up in a depression worse than what Americans faced
 
So that explains their plan to exterminate Jews?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 27, 2017 - 5:03pm
OK, so, now your point is that the Germans did attempt genocide, with all that entails, but it was OK because others have done it?
I guess that's one way to look at it.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 27, 2017 - 5:13pm
@Tom Purcell:
"If you want context, separate those times and eras into their context, not modern context. You have to understand these men came up in a depression worse than what Americans faced and therefore there was a callousness to many. It's also how things went back then and I hate to say it but human life was probably treated much differently than you or I can imagine, by everyone, everywhere."
 
There is a vast amount of difference between Communists and National Socialists beating the crap out of each other on the streets of Berlin or shoving "undesirables" into concentration camps to outright extermination, Tom.  Most of the combatants operated "camps" of some sort before and during the war.  But the key difference was the object was not extermination, no one had the equivalent to a Chelmno or an Auschwitz-Birkenau.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 27, 2017 - 5:16pm
@Tom Purcell:
"No, asshole, that's not what I said."
 
Now, now.  Don't get grumpy.
 
"There's a big difference between systematic genocide implemented early on in the war, and the despair the Germans and SS faced at the end."
 
Huh?
The Germans started wholesale massacres of the Jews in the Summer of 1941, Tom.  It was implemented early on.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 27, 2017 - 5:17pm
@Tom Purcell:
"To have "exterminated" six million Kahzars in the time they were supposed to have done it, they would have had to process an impossible amount of people and bodies."
 
Why?  They had four years to kill and clean up the mess.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 27, 2017 - 5:37pm
@Tom Purcell:
"Both of which might have been fitted to look like gas chambers years after the war. There wasn't, from anything I've seen or read, any decent evidence of Zyklon B used systematically on Jews. The most compelling evidence comes from David Cole and other's who did undercover journalistic work on the site."
 
That reminds me, I mean to get to David Cole and his "expose" but I haven't had a chance.
 
Cole only examined the original gas chamber at Auschwitz, Tom.  The Germans converted the original gas chamber/crematorium into an air raid shelter.  After the war the Poles and Soviets botched it and made mistakes while recreating it.
 
There were seven gas chambers/crematorium at the separate camp of Birkenau.  The Germans blew up those gas chambers before they left.
 
Between 900,000 to 1,000,000 Jews died at Auschwitz, I, II and III, the majority in the gas chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau.
 
BTW, did you know that David Cole now believes the Action Reinhard Camps and Chelmno were extermination camps?
 
"Korherr’s figure of “evacuees,” of “departed” Jews that are not accounted for in ghettoes, camps, work enterprises, or emigration, might be off by tens of thousands. But with a figure of almost 2.5 million human beings, take away even a few hundred thousand and you still have a massive number of people to be accounted for.
And deniers can’t account for them. They have no alternate theory to debate. I have made this point again and again.
So you know what? I’ll just turn Bradley Smith’s own language around on you guys. Bradley’s demand, repeated endlessly over the decades: “Where’s the budget? Where’s the budget for the Holocaust?”
If you think that the “evacuees” were sent someplace to be resettled, to be kept alive, to be fed, clothed, and housed for three years until the end of the war, where’s the budget for that? “Where’s the budget” is no longer lookin’ like a great talking point, is it, Smith? I mean, if you take nearly 2.5 million people on a one-way trip to being killed, the “budget” won’t necessarily have to be so big. I mean, you won’t have to take into account lodging, food, clothes, medical treatment, etc.
But caring for 2.5 million people for three years? Uh, dudes, there’ll have to be a pretty large fucking budget for that. And whereas it’s plausible to say that the mass murders during the Reinhardt period were paid for “off the books” because it was an operation so secret that Goebbels in his own diary stated that it should not be spoken of in detail, if the “evacuees” were treated with kindness and compassion, why hide that budget?
I guess I’m just sayin’, if you expect to see a “budget” for a secret and short-term murder program, why don’t you expect to see a budget for the long-term care and feeding of almost 2.5 million “evacuated” Jews? It’s insane to expect a budget for one and not the other.
So where’s the budget, man? Think of the expenses...food shipped to the “relocation town,” or “resettlement village,” or call it what you will (since it’s fictional anyway, I might as well call it “Unicornville”). Clothes, housing, medical supplies, sanitary facilities, running water, etc. Funny, but there are documents concerning the feeding and medical care of concentration camp inmates, and documents concerning the care and feeding of the Hungarian Jews sent to Auschwitz in ’44. But no documents, not one, concerning almost 2.5 million “evacuees” sent to Unicornville in 1942?
Not one? So the Nazis meticulously kept records of food (literally down to calculating calories, and literally down to Himmler suggesting meals for Hungarian Jewish women) and medical care for the camp inmates, but no documents covering the same concerns for Unicornville and its millions of residents?
Where are records of the shipment of supplies to Unicornville? Where are the records of the deployment of guards? Internal memos and coded transmissions about security concerns or black market trading (which we have for the camps, the General Government ghettoes, and the Ostland ghettoes)?
See, wherever Jews were kept alive, the Nazis kept records. Wherever Jews were kept alive, things like food, medicine, guards, security concerns, and black marketeering concerns were recorded. And no single camp would have had the enormous population of Unicornville.
Yet not a single document for Unicornville exists.
Shit, it seems to me there’s not one bit of evidence that Unicornville ever existed. Whereas, as I’ve painstakingly pointed out before, there’s plenty of evidence from contemporaneous documents that death was the ultimate destination of the majority of Reinhardt “evacuees.”
I am no longer going to debate the existence of Un
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 27, 2017 - 5:38pm
http://hooverhog.typepad.com/hognotes/2015/02/a-reply-by-david-cole.html
 
Lost some of the comment, scroll down to David's reply.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 27, 2017 - 5:43pm
https://archive.is/WZUwm
 
You can actually see all parts of what he discussed above.
 
BTW, he's wrong on Auschwitz but that's fine.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 27, 2017 - 5:55pm
@Tom Purcell:
"Most "holocaust" protagonists subscribe to the majority of the holocausting to have occurred in the last 15 to 24 months of the war,"
 
Um, no.
 
Most of the Jews died in 1941 and 1942, after which the pace slowed down considerably.  The Germans began to value the remaining Jews for labor, the last great "action" dealt with the emptying of the Lodz Ghetto and the mass murder of the Hungarian Jews in 1944.
 
"but even if they had 4 years to make six million names disappear, there wasn't the means for them to do so. Even the most advanced crematoriums take 30 to 60 minutes per body. You do the math. There weren't enough crematoriums or petrol in Europe to have done what Zionists claim was done."
 
Why?
Not all of the bodies were burned, Tom.  The Soviets and Poles found mass graves in their countries and those Jews that died in the ghettos were buried in those respective cemeteries.  The Jews that died in the "death marches" were buried where they lay.
 
The Germans conducted mass burnings at Chelmno, the Action Reinhard Camps and Auschwitz-Birkenau.  The burnings at Auschwitz-Birkenau were spread over four years and the Germans had about two years to destroy the bodies at Chlelmno and about a year and a half to destroy the bodies at the Reinhard Camps.  Perfectly doable.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 27, 2017 - 6:17pm
Saint George Added Jul 27, 2017 - 6:22pm
and the despair the Germans and SS faced at the end.  
 
So the despair the Nazi hierarchy and SS faced at the end explains their extermination of Jews?
 
They despaired of leaving some Jews alive as the allies closed in, so people like Eichmann stepped up the extermination.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 27, 2017 - 6:25pm
@Tom Purcell:
"I looked. Same old pictures with new captions. You can put 2 or 3 actual photos in there, then add a bunch of unidentifiable corpses with grim captions and boom - it's totally a holocaustic partay!"
 
The moniker "denier" fits you so well.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 27, 2017 - 6:38pm
Why?
Steve Bergeron Added Jul 27, 2017 - 8:26pm
Ever notice how history tends to repeat itself, with slight variations?  The Nazis murdered millions of Jews, calling them "Untermensch" (subhuman) to make it sound more acceptable.  In our day, abortionists, flying under the flag of "pro-choice" murder millions of defenseless unborn, calling them "fetusus" and denying their humanity.  I think we were worse than the Nazis, because they only murdered about six million.  We've done many times more than that.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 27, 2017 - 9:14pm
@Dannl Yoder:
"Those masterful Germans! Had bon fires that Allied Planes never filmed. Had mass graves that took "Archaeologists" to find
Jeff says, it is perfectly doable."
 
Yup, perfectly doable.

"No Jeffrey, it is not!"
 
See my above comment.

"Get away from the Hitler channel, stop ordering their books advertised at the end of each sensational and punishing bombing of the Allies."
 
I don't watch the "Hitler" channel.
 
"Get some fresh air, bug some smart water, and For God's Sake put Netanyahu in an asylum!"
 
I'll agree with the last.
BTW, if they didn't die, Dannl, where did the Jews go?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 27, 2017 - 9:18pm
I'm sorry, Steve.  I'm pro-choice.
 
But, the biggest difference I see between me and Republicans, Steve, is that I still care about kids once they are born.  Republicans love them some fetuses but don't give a damn once they are born.
 
Ironic, wouldn't you say?
 
Now, just to be clear, I'm not really for abortions.  What I am for is teaching people about safe choices so that when they get pregnant it's a choice, not an accident.  If it's a choice then there is no reason to have an abortion.
Michael B. Added Jul 27, 2017 - 10:35pm
Interesting. As time goes by, I'm sure more and more such things will surface. From what I've seen, sometime late in 1941, Hitler essentially told Goering and Himmler, "Fuck it. Let's just kill all of the motherfuckers. You have my authorization, and I give you both the authority to carry it out by any way you see fit and by any means at your disposal; you both know what to do." The lack of a written and formal order by Hitler is the key missing piece to the puzzle, but to me, the sheer magnitude of the "program" and the resources necessary to "execute" it defies Hitler's ignorance of it; it would not have been carried out unless Hitler expressly and explicitly ordered it. I lived in Germany for several years, and I saw first-hand how, generally speaking, Germans are very organized and diligent record-keepers. William L. Shirer described Germany as "A great but baffling nation.", and I tend to agree.
John G Added Jul 27, 2017 - 11:38pm
OCD.
William Stockton Added Jul 27, 2017 - 11:41pm
Nice Jeffrey.
 
I guarantee you that if an old video was dug up somewhere showing Hitler admitting to killing Europeans in prison camps HIMSELF, you would still have Tom denying it.
 
You are correct, there is no arguing with a closed mind.   If Tom's mind was any more closed, he would need to be on life-support.
John G Added Jul 28, 2017 - 1:45am
Pot meet kettle.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 7:28am
Wow, look at that, John's brilliant insight blows me away. As usual.
John, do you want to discuss Himmler's speech at Posen? Or just be an obnoxious troll?
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 28, 2017 - 9:47am
Jeffrey:
    I don't think any religion teaches the extirpation of a religion or race, if that's what you're getting at, only the recognition of which ones are good or bad so that you can protect yourself(your nation)against bad people. So that you know whom to have ties with and whom not to  Does the United States do anything different?
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 28, 2017 - 9:51am
For example Jews often don't like Muslims, but that doesn't mean they can kill them all; they can recognize that they are not friendly though to protect themselves and vice versa.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 9:56am
@Barath Nagarajan:
"Jeffrey:
I don't think any religion teaches the extirpation of a religion or race, if that's what you're getting at, only the recognition of which ones are good or bad so that you can protect yourself(your nation)against bad people. So that you know whom to have ties with and whom not to Does the United States do anything different?"
 
Barath, my article is very specific, someone mentioned language in a comment in another article and I wanted to address this.
 
My main interest is history, specifically WW II, Nazi Germany and what is known as the "Holocaust."  If you click my name you will see the articles I've written deal with those subjects (along with a couple of other things that I wanted to talk about.
 
I'm a liberal, Barath.  I don't concern myself with religion, those are matters of faith specific to the individual.  I don't believe in "races" per se, I will say we all have ethnic identities but in the end we are all members of the human race.  Racism and discrimination disgust me, I'd hoped that humans were evolving past that but the election of the Trump is proof positive that we haven't.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 10:00am
@Barath Nagarajan:
"For example Jews often don't like Muslims, but that doesn't mean they can kill them all; they can recognize that they are not friendly though to protect themselves and vice versa."
 
There are specific reasons why Muslims don't like Jews, mainly dealing with the State of Israel.  Jews also have their specific reasons for disliking Muslims.
 
But, just recently, both sides showed support to one another when their communities came under attack in the United States.  I find that very encouraging.
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 28, 2017 - 10:05am
Jeffrey:
     In a sense emancipation(that the U.S. did during the Civil War) was the opposite of extirpation the Germans did during WWII. Do you believe they would have gone that far if not for the War?
The speech was titled " The Situation in the Fifth Year of the War" correct?
We interned Japanese during WWII. The Supreme Court upheld it.
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 28, 2017 - 10:08am
Jeffrey:
    And I'm not saying it was justified, I just wanted to pose the question for the sake of a better understanding of what led to it.
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 28, 2017 - 10:17am
To speak plainly, that Southerners would have blamed black slaves in the South for the Civil War and would have "extirpated" them so Lincoln emancipated, the South went through Reconstruction.
Billy Roper Added Jul 28, 2017 - 10:23am
Just imagine, if the Germans had not skinned alive and then tossed into ovens 6 trillion Jewish babies to make soap and lampshades. Their whole country might be overrun by nonWhite immigrants, and the news and entertainment media and banking might be controlled by Jews. One shudders to think about it.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 10:26am
Just imagine if Billy Roper actually had brains instead of being an ignorant, redneck hillbilly.
Billy Roper Added Jul 28, 2017 - 10:28am
Just imagine if Jeffrey Kelly said that to my face, some time. ;->
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 10:32am
Just imagine that Billy's breath would be so foul it would undoubtedly knock me on my ass.
Billy Roper Added Jul 28, 2017 - 10:33am
No, Jeffrey, I wouldn't say a word to you.
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 28, 2017 - 10:41am
As a argument, not necessarily to Jeffrey because he doesn't deal with religion, Christianity says there are two Creators, one for good people wheat), one for bad people(weeds). You can see how that would be harmful. There is only one Creator for everything.
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 28, 2017 - 10:43am
But, then Christianity is a religion, I don't object if people believe that. First Amendment Freedom of Religion.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 10:47am
@Barath Nagarajan:
It's been a bit since I've studied the Civil War but I don't think Southerners ever blamed their emancipated slaves for the Civil War.  Exterminating them was never an option.  The Southerners blamed the federal government for interfering in their affairs, affairs they considered to be state's rights that didn't fall under federal jurisdiction.  The South also thought that secession was an inherent right.
 
We have to take a look at the differences in slave societies and what the Third Reich did during the war.  Slaveocracies, or societies built to some degree on slavery, generally value their slaves as property.  The owner either purchased or procured their slaves by other means (warfare, inheritance, etc.) so, the slaves have value.  It is in the owner's interest to treat their slaves with some modicum of care because the slave is an investment.  
 
This was different than what the Germans did during WW II.  The labor was completely expendable, the Germans had no interest in the upkeep of Jews.  It fit their interest to murder unproductive Jews so they didn't have to take care of them.  It also fit their interest to work fit Jews to death to extract every ounce of labor from them while killing them in the process.
 
Now, this fluctuated to some degree, when more labor was needed more Jews survived (we can see this towards the end of the war) when food supplies were an issue more Jews died.  You can see that in some of the other articles I've written.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 10:49am
@Tom Purcell:
"Holohoax six mill believers have wild imaginations.

"Just imagine if Jeffrey Kelly said that to my face, some time."

Billy, only you wouldn't know if it were he, because he is too ashamed to show his face. I suppose it doesn't matter though, he'd be soon forgotten anyway."
 
That is my real face.  Creepy, huh?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 10:52am
@ Billy Roper:
"No, Jeffrey, I wouldn't say a word to you."
 
You know what I find so amusing, Billy?  You (and the other racist douchebags you associate with) accuse blacks and others of behaving like animals....yet, here you are, wanting to fight someone you don't know because I said something to hurt your ❄️ feelings.
 
Who's the animal now, Billy?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 10:54am
@Barath Nagarajan:
"As a argument, not necessarily to Jeffrey because he doesn't deal with religion, Christianity says there are two Creators, one for good people wheat), one for bad people(weeds). You can see how that would be harmful. There is only one Creator for everything."
 
Barath, no offense, but, that's not Christianity.  Christians believe in only one creator.
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 28, 2017 - 10:54am
Jeffrey:
     I know, I was taught that too. The Civil War was because of slavery, it was about 'sectional tensions'. Lincoln himself in his Second Inaugural said it was about slavery. He mentioned slavery in both his inaugurals, and American history was dominated by the subject for decades even before the Civil War(free state/slave state controversy).
The accepted history!
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 28, 2017 - 10:56am
Sorry, typo. I was taught the Civil War was not because of slavery.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 11:01am
@Dannl Yoder:
"It fit their interest to murder unproductive.
Jeff! There it is! The answer to
"where did all the Jews disappear to?"
Someone said "Arbeit!" And the Jews took off. :))
Same as today."
 
Funny.
Dannl, if at all possible you display an even greater ignorance of the history involved than YouTube or Twitter deniers.  That's saying something.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 11:03am
@Barath Nagarajan:
There were a lot of tensions between the North and South before the war and slavery was a part of that.
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 28, 2017 - 11:14am
Jeffrey:
   Mathew 13. 27: “So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28“He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’
Jesus says he did not 'sow' them.
Yes, we hope to escape death by believing in goodness and Spiritual things, but even it has a purpose in the mortal world and all things are subject to it that are material and not Spiritual.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 11:16am
Ich will auch ein ganz schweres Kapitel will ich hier vor Ihnen in aller Offenheit nennen.
 
This is NOT German LOL. Google translate ????
 
It's copied from your link. In German that should read:
 
Ich will Ihnen hier in aller Oeffentlichkeit ein ganz dunkles Kapitel nennen:
 
Who has written that shit ?
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 11:17am
BTW: I didn't bother to decipher the rest. When the German "original" is presented in that way the English translation is more than nuts LOL
Dino Manalis Added Jul 28, 2017 - 11:19am
At least, he was honest and confirmed what people already knew!
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 28, 2017 - 11:25am
.  Save praise alone that soars on high, Nought lives on earth that shall not die.
Tamil poet,Thiruvalluvar
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 11:26am
BTW2: Only a hint how ONE word can change the meaning:
 
schwer = heavy (weight), difficult
dunkel = dark (light), obscure
 
So don't count on such sources. How many meanings has the verb "to get" in English ?
 
You see ?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 11:28am
@Stone-Eater Friedli:
"Ich will auch ein ganz schweres Kapitel will ich hier vor Ihnen in aller Offenheit nennen.

This is NOT German LOL. Google translate ????

It's copied from your link. In German that should read:

Ich will Ihnen hier in aller Oeffentlichkeit ein ganz dunkles Kapitel nennen:

Who has written that shit ?"
 
 
Sorry, just the messenger.  Perhaps the translator got distracted by trying to follow all the various 9-11 Conspiracies floating around the internet.  Or maybe his American handler held a gun too close to his face and he couldn't see the speech clearly.  Or, the Israeli Jew translator was fantasizing about all the Palestinians he was going to kill.
 
What do you think, Stone-Eater?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 11:33am
@Dannl Yoder:
" Jeffrey, but it is not possible my friend, you hold that title.

Are you enjoying the genocide America is conducting right now, for the Zionists?"
 
I think it's a hoot.

"You say you are white."
 
I am white.
 
"If you think you will be allowed to live, then you fail the "Astute Reader" award."
 
Who is going to kill me?  

"FDR was poisoned at the Malta convention. His reward for aiding the Jewish cause."
 
FDR was a very sick man.....is this some new conspiracy theory you are dreaming up?

"After he "returned" from Malta, his mole was on the wrong side of his face and his nose and ears were noticeably different.
Let that be a lesson to you,YT!"
 
Are you saying that the Jews/Communists replaced him?  With what, reptilians from Uranus?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 11:37am
@Stone-Eater Friedli:
"BTW2: Only a hint how ONE word can change the meaning:

schwer = heavy (weight), difficult
dunkel = dark (light), obscure

So don't count on such sources. How many meanings has the verb "to get" in English ?

You see ?"
 
BTW, not the point.  The point is what Himmler said throughout the entire section regarding the Jews.  What he related Jews to, what he compared the action to.  
Get it?
You are right, words can have many meanings, it's how you relate those words is what counts.  If I compare what I am doing now to a murderous action in the past it obviously means that I am committing murder now.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 11:39am
@Barath Nagarajan:
"Jeffrey:
Mathew 13. 27: “So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28“He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’
Jesus says he did not 'sow' them.
Yes, we hope to escape death by believing in goodness and Spiritual things, but even it has a purpose in the mortal world and all things are subject to it that are material and not Spiritual."
 
I think you are being too literal.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 11:44am
Es soll zwischen uns ausgesprochen sein, und trotzdem werden wir nicht in der Öffentlichkeit nie darüber reden.
 
We will have agreed on that, but nevertheless we won't talk in public about it.
 
Genau so wenig, wie wir am 30. Juni gezögert haben, die befohlene Plicht zu tun und Kameraden, die sich verfehlt hatten, an die Wand zu stellen und zu erschiessen. 
 
As we did not hesitate on June 30 to fulfill our duty and shoot (kill) comrades which have failed (put against the wall).
 
Das war so eine Gottseidank in uns wohnende Takt, Selbstverständlichkeit des Taktes, dass wir uns untereinander nie darüber unterhalten haben, nie darüber sprachen, es hat jeden geschauert und jeder war sich klar, dass er es das nächste Mal wieder tun würde, wenn es befohlen wird und wenn es notwendig ist. 
 
This makes no sense, really. Too many errors to really capture the sense of it.
 
Ich meine die "Judenevakuierung": die Ausrottung des jüdischen Volkes
 
I'm talking of the extermination of the Jewish people.
 
What I lack is a connection between the paragraphs before and that last sentence. It seems to be that there's something missing. It's not a speech with a red line in it. It sounds .... like a patchwork to me.
 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 11:49am
@Stone-Eater Friedli:
"What I lack is a connection between the paragraphs before and that last sentence. It seems to be that there's something missing. It's not a speech with a red line in it. It sounds .... like a patchwork to me."
 
Of course it does.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 11:50am
BTW:
 
It makes a difference if you write:
 
Ich meine die "Judenevakuierung": die Ausrottung des jüdischen Volkes
 
or
 
Ich meine die Judenevakuierung: die Ausrottung des jüdischen Volkes
 
The first means: We talk about "Evacuation" but we kill them. The second would mean: We kill them.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 11:54am
And, Stone-Eater?
 
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 11:55am
Tom
 
This speech is certainly not an original. It simply has too many mistakes in it, in sense, in grammar and structure, the original as well as the translation. I'd like to hear that, and then I could say what's real and what's not.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 11:57am
Jeffry
 
I don't think that this site is a recommendable one, but maybe they fail only on proper translating ?
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 12:03pm
BTW Jeffry:
 
Of course it does.....what ?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 12:15pm
Stone-Eater, I use CODOH for the full speech, they translated it.  
 
Are you talking about an audio recording or the translation?
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 12:27pm
Jeffrey
 
Audio if possible. Then I could really say what he meant.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 12:30pm
I mean the original in German.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 12:47pm
Tom
 
Get it. Watching it.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 1:26pm
@Stone-Eater Friedli:
Here:
http://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/himmler-poznan/index.shtm
 
That link has the German, along with a simultaneous translation/transcript of the German and English.
Michael Cikraji Added Jul 28, 2017 - 1:50pm
Ahhhhh.... so tired of the Holocaust deniers. This Himmler speech is good evidence, but not the best.
You have to look at people's motivations, and what the consequence of what they say will mean. The best evidence, HANDS DOWN, has always been the Nuremberg Trial testimony of Rudolf Hoess, the longtime Commandant of Auschwitz.
He knew that he could argue the whole "just following orders" bit, or refuse to talk. No. He splayed it all out there... knowing well that he was probably signing his own death warrant. He had every reason to lie or cover things up. He didn't.
Rudolf Hoess Testimony
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 2:09pm
Jeffrey
 
Heard it. The translation is correct. Himmler himself brabbled some stuff there which was translated word for word.
 
I think it's clear. He talked about extermination in the sense of the word.
 
I simply wonder what led all those people to such a hate. When you are hated by people you gotta have done something wrong first.
 
I guess the Jewish money elite were the reason that finally ALL Jews were put into the same pot. And THEY weren't gased in a KZ. THEY would have deserved it.
 
Just like today. We're still the same stupid generalizing bunch. The negroes, the homos, the sliteyes, the whatevers. Bullshit.
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 28, 2017 - 2:20pm
Okay Michael I think you're lying. If your government did it you would say "way to go White Christians are superior, you shouldn't mess with America. We're the best." That's the way you lying bigots are. Win at any cost and only some decent conservative people ( mostly Christians)would oppose you.
  You're playing a card in a vengeance competition that's all.
   "I've seen it before, it happens all the time, my country wrong or right"
Jackson Browne
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 2:28pm
@Michael Cikraji:
 
Really it's a combination of testimony, documentation, site investigations, etc. that prove it.  Deniers can't dispute it.
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 28, 2017 - 2:37pm
This is like the "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, did it make a sound argument".
     The Germans covered it up for a long time, Hess didn't sign a confession until (April)1946, after Germany had lost the war. Why didn't he inform our government sooner? The U.S. Government was aware of it before then, but didn't enter the war until Pearl Harbor.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 3:20pm
LOL
Yes, the British mistreated him initially but he was not "tortured" at Nuremberg.
 
Tom, look at his statement.  He says that starving prisoners were the allies fault, not the Germans.  If someone was torturing him why would they allow something like that to make it on the record?
 
Also, Hoess (BTW, I prefer this spelling) later stated the death toll at Auschwitz was around a million, not the four million the Soviets stated.  He did this while the Poles held him.  Wouldn't his "torturers" make him claim four million?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 3:20pm
Looks like you prefer "Hoess" as well.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 3:22pm
Tom
 
I think Höss, or Hoess, was having scrupules after all. And he was right. It's always the same thing: Innocent people get killed for crimes of a few of their kind and THESE get away with it when they are useful for other purposes - just like Oppenheimer and von Braun. The Rothschilds are still on stage, are they ?
 
So what's the fuss ? THEY should have been disposed of.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 3:31pm
I'm struggling with your logic here, Stone-Eater.
 
Most of the dead Jews were Polish, Soviet and Hungarian Jews.  Most of that population were poor and hard working.
 
There were no Jewish German or Austrian bankers, none of them lasted to the start of the war.  The Nazis drove them out.  A lot of them got away.  If they idea was to drive out those Jews, why were these other Jews punished?
 
Most of the manufacturers of military equipment were not Jews, Krupp being a  good example of this.  Much of the German military equipment came from the Skoda Armory from Czechoslovakia, not owned by Jews even before the German takeover.
 
So, who is this "they" you say deserved death?  Do you have names and the nature of their crimes?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 3:36pm
I don't give a fuck what people call me, Tom.
Michael Cikraji Added Jul 28, 2017 - 3:36pm
@Barath,
What are you talking about? You say, Why didn't he inform our government sooner? 
What? They were fighting against us, why would he inform our government about anything?
I think the point that he was making was that he was tasked, like many others, with Jewish extermination. But was quietly proud of his accomplishment in being the best at that business... as gruesome as it was...
 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 3:38pm
Oh, BTW, Tom, that's not an answer to my query.
 
Perhaps you can answer it.
 
Who were these people that Stone-Eater described?  Are there names?  What was the nature of their crimes?
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 3:44pm
Jeffry
 
I first of all talk of the financial elite which are present since the time of Amshel. Even back then it was a conglomerate of powerful business people from Prescott Bush to IBM to Krupp and IG Farben etc. 
 
But the financing came from powerful Jewish bankers. Remember what one of the Rothschild's said about Napoleon ? They financed wars and still do until today.
 
They don't care about their fellow Jews or other people are killed. Like today, They are above race or nationality. The IDEOLOGY binds them together.
 
Races and color, religion and -ism arguments are for us people on the street. THEY use that to distract is from their plans. And we're dumb enough to believe it.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 3:48pm
No, I haven't so I'm asking you.
 
Who were these people Stone-Eater is describing?  I assume that if there were crimes we have names, yes?
 
Who are the people that Zundel is describing?  I assume he is talking about Jews, yes?  
 
I know about the Rothschilds, they are a definite bugaboo of yours, but, which Rothschilds?  Do we have specific names and what they did?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 3:56pm
@Stone-Eater Friedli:
"Jeffry

I first of all talk of the financial elite which are present since the time of Amshel. Even back then it was a conglomerate of powerful business people from Prescott Bush to IBM to Krupp and IG Farben etc."
 
OK.

"But the financing came from powerful Jewish bankers. Remember what one of the Rothschild's said about Napoleon ? They financed wars and still do until today."
 
Which ones, Stone-Eater?
I want you to be specific, names and countries of origin.  We can limit ourselves to WW I and II if that will be easier.
Also, banks only finance what people want.  Militaries want weapons for obvious reasons.  Bankers don't build weapons but they finance what is wanted by militaries, also, militaries become self-perpetuating.  They need to justify their existence.

"They don't care about their fellow Jews or other people are killed. Like today, They are above race or nationality. The IDEOLOGY binds them together."
 
What ideology?

"Races and color, religion and -ism arguments are for us people on the street. THEY use that to distract is from their plans. And we're dumb enough to believe it."
 
"They" again.  We can also use (((they))) or (((them))).  
Again, be specific.  Names and countries of origin, what they did or are doing.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 3:57pm
@Tom Purcell:
"Do your own homework, Jeffrey. Stone is right and you know it. I listed all of the original Rothschilds in my article, 'The Supremacy of Rothschild'. Start there if you need to."
 
No, this is your point.  I want you and Stone to make it.
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 28, 2017 - 3:58pm
But, technically America is still the best and most Americans believe in Angels by a wide majority(polling data has shown).
 Moslem and Jews are making peace? Which Moslems? Last time I checked Israel was occasionally bombing Syria.
     Jews don't accept the Koran came from their God, the Koran says Jews are bad because they changed the Word of, or Covenant with, God.
     That's only going to work out if both sides are fair and decide to be good.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 4:31pm
@Dannl Yoder:
"@ Jeffrey, you always demand names. Name these 6 Million that died in WWII, and name the "millions" of witnesses. "Hitler" and a few others just isn't going to get it!
Heck at least name them by "Tattoo number" pircr of cake!
No? Then name the "Witnesses" at Nuremberg...these WWII soldiers that liberated them.
Surely Nuremberg called upon these American "Soldiers"?"
 
All I want are names, countries of origin and the crimes of a small circle of (((people))), Dannl.  Why is that hard?
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 4:49pm
Jeffrey
 
Names don't change facts. And we're not on a quiz game here. You can google that anytime, as for example:
 
http://www.mindcontagion.org/banking/hb1815.html
 
The rest you can google yourself. It might not make sense to you, but to me it does. History has a red line into the future. But the Twitter generation isn't aware of that.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 4:54pm
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jews-in-the-george-w-bush-administration
 
You wanted names, Jeffrey. Here you go.
 
And I want to point out that this is NOT against any ordinary Jew. As it is not about an ordinary American when I rant against the US "government".
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 4:57pm
...but I'm sure THESE Jews had an effect that Bush went to war in the ME. If not, you're blue-eyed LOL
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 5:00pm
BTW: We have a large community of Jews in Zurich. And the 
 
Bank of International Settlements
 
is in Basel, Switzerland. I'm not proud of it.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 5:04pm
And I hate it when every fucking body accuses all us Swiss of being profiteers and money launderers. It's the same as saying all Blacks are stupid criminals and all Germans are Nazis. People who generalize are stupid. Period....
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 5:08pm
@Stone-Eater Friedli:
"Jeffrey

Names don't change facts."
 
Uh....what?
 
 
"And we're not on a quiz game here. You can google that anytime, as for example:

http://www.mindcontagion.org/banking/hb1815.html"
So, let's see, Napoleon escaped and borrowed money to get weapons.  Gee, that didn't work out.
Then we have an agent misrepresent what happened and made a killing.  Sounds like what happens on Wallstreet everyday.
 


"The rest you can google yourself. It might not make sense to you, but to me it does. History has a red line into the future. But the Twitter generation isn't aware of that."
 
I'm not a member of the Twitter generation, I'm a Gen X'er.
 
So, let me get this straight:
 
Supposedly there exists some great conspiracy, tied together by Rothschilds and some other people.
I think.
 
These (((others))) rule the world through the banking system, do I have that right?  Something to that affect?
 
Anyway, they start wars to benefit themselves....is that right?  Or is it something else?
 
Anyway, deniers like Tom think these people faked the Holocaust in order to get Israel.  Is there something else I'm missing in regards to that?  Deniers also believe the allies consented to this to justify what they did to Germany.  Something like that.
 
Stone-Eater doesn't deny the Holocaust, it just annoys  him when we talk about it.  He also believes the wrong people died.  Let me know if I got that right.
 
Anyway, this vast conspiracy is well known among the people that "know" yet somehow they can't give me names or how this ties together.  But, they all believe in it because apparently specifics are not important.
 
M'kay.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 5:08pm
Last word:
 
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=24369
 
When all this is fake, what is NO fake ? Especially today in the digital age ?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 5:10pm
@Stone-Eater Friedli:
"http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jews-in-the-george-w-bush-administration

You wanted names, Jeffrey. Here you go.

And I want to point out that this is NOT against any ordinary Jew. As it is not about an ordinary American when I rant against the US "government".
 
OK, did these people commit crimes?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 5:13pm
@Stone-Eater Friedli:
"Last word:

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=24369

When all this is fake, what is NO fake ? Especially today in the digital age ?"
 
That reminds me, I wanted to talk about these other "Holocausts."
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 28, 2017 - 5:20pm
I thought I would conclude my participation in the discussion with a quote from Shakespeare:
      The quality of mercy is not strain’d, It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven Upon the place beneath: it is twice bless’d; It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
    The Lord does not imitate death(on the crucifix) does he? But life imitates its Creator(as in metaphor)doesn't it?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 5:20pm
@Dannl Yoder:
"Surely Jeff, you got to tire of this shoah sometime? One day?"
 
What's to tire of?  There's so much more to learn.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 5:23pm
@Dannl Yoder:
"Here's a start Jeff, happy hunting! These names keep coming up. Nothing to it,ay?

http://awarenessact.com/finally-exposed-the-13-families-that-secretly-run-the-world/"
 
How many of those families are Jewish?
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 28, 2017 - 5:29pm
srry..cont.
    It is enthroned in the hearts of kings, It is an attribute to God himself, And earthly power doth then show likest God’s When mercy seasons justice.
But, your not supposed to imitate God, right?
The Lord is both immanent and transcendent.
He is within his creation and beyond it.
I ween.
End...
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 5:31pm
Jeffrey
 
OK, did these people commit crimes?
 
Are you seriously tellling me the Bush administration committed no crimes ?!?
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 5:33pm
Dannl
 
Most of those families were already powerful in medieval ages......no surprise there. I always say we're living in a New Feudal era....masked as neoliberalism.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 5:40pm
Plantagenet, Habsburg and Hanover (Windsor comes into that on some point) have been present since the 12th century, when France (Normandy, Hastings) and Britain kind of interbred and kicked the Vikings out.
 
Jews came into the game around the 16/17th century. They also interbred with the aristocracy later.
 
But their secret clubs exist until today. Elite universities with their circles. They have a stable network since then, supported by wealth, and it eventually extended to the US where Harvard and others are members as well.
 
Keep power in the extended family, so to say.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 5:42pm
@Stone-Eater Friedli:
"Jeffrey

OK, did these people commit crimes?

Are you seriously tellling me the Bush administration committed no crimes ?!?"
 
No, I asked you if any of the people on the list committed crimes.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 6:28pm
Jeffrey
 
No, I asked you if any of the people on the list committed crimes.
 
What kind of game is this ? Did you ever read non-mass media papers since 2001 and talked to people about it ? Do I really have to do your work and pick one of about 1000 links to it ?
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 6:31pm
OK, I give you ONE hint. Powell. Spreading false information that helps preparing an unjustified war is not a crime ?
 
What is it then ? A joke or sorry, I expressed myself wrong ? Get a 10 $ fine for playing dumb ?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 6:33pm
Colin Powell?  Is he Jewish?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 6:39pm
@Stone-Eater Friedli:
"Jeffrey

No, I asked you if any of the people on the list committed crimes.

What kind of game is this ? Did you ever read non-mass media papers since 2001 and talked to people about it ? Do I really have to do your work and pick one of about 1000 links to it ?"
 
Stone-Eater, you provided me a list of Jewish people in Bush's government.  That's all you did.  Did anyone (or everyone) on that list commit a crime?
 
See, I don't get it.  You, Tom and Dannl want me to believe something.  I'm asking for proof, I assume you are basing your belief system on proof, yes? So, I want to see your proof.
 
Whenever I write something I hold myself to the standard of providing proof when asked.  I did that for you earlier, you asked for an audio recording of Himmler.  I provided it.
 
Why do I feel like I am being unreasonable for asking for proof?  
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 6:59pm
@Dannl Yoder:
Why would I wear a yarmulke?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 7:08pm
LOL, huh???
 
I'm "laboring" for the Jews????
 
LOL, Dannl, I don't know any Jews personally.  I do know some on-line but we clash sometimes over my views on Israel.
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 28, 2017 - 7:10pm
Jeffrey:
    Sorry, I'm breaking my own rule. I signed off. 
      If a theory has elegance and symmetry it is correct. 
Nature loves beauty(symmetry, elegance).
If you want to collect (more) data, then then people can find it once they have a correct theory. But, one should know it's correct because the theory has elegance, and symmetry.
   Now the question is does the theory have symmetry, beauty?(I thought we covered this with physics/science stuff/Einstein/Relativity/Quantum theory.
  For example, how do you know no particle travels faster than light, because it has zero mass. You want to prove it experimentally go ahead collect data. It's not necessary. Much science in physics is based on the speed of light being a constant(measured in a vacuum).
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 7:23pm
Jeffrey
 
I'm asking for proof, I assume you are basing your belief system on proof, yes? So, I want to see your proof.
 
Where's the proof that the color red is red ? It's a system where a bunch of people tie the strings, it's a geopolitical agenda about resources and strategic advantages. Strait of Hormuz, Bering strait to come and Dakar as a hub. Check a world map and watch the moves which the US made, where they ousted regimes. NATO. Which countries lack to surround Russia by NATO ? Right - IRAN. And China. That's all.
 
Sometimes you don't need a "proof", you can see the agenda using an map and knowing a bit about history. Resources and the question Who Profits ? is enough.
 
And if you ask for "proof" - who would deliver it ? When a "conspiracy" site delivers one, it's dismissed, and when a mass media slogan shows up it's takan as proof.
 
To me, proof is when I see that a plan was created over a time frame and the steps have become visible one by one. 
 
Wesley Clark had a good one on this:
 
https://youtu.be/f7NsXFnzJGw
 
https://youtu.be/9RC1Mepk_Sw
 
Hey, this is a general of the US army. What the fuck do you need more ?
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 28, 2017 - 7:58pm
 Elegance: the quality of being pleasingly ingenious and simple; neatness:
"the simplicity and elegance of the solution"
 
Symmetry: Symmetry in everyday language refers to a sense of harmonious and beautiful proportion and balance.(Wikipedia)
    The pieces of the puzzle fit together correctly, or in a way that is predictable.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 9:41pm
@Stone-Eater Friedli:
"Jeffrey
Where's the proof that the color red is red ? It's a system where a bunch of people tie the strings, it's a geopolitical agenda about resources and strategic advantages. Strait of Hormuz, Bering strait to come and Dakar as a hub. Check a world map and watch the moves which the US made, where they ousted regimes. NATO. Which countries lack to surround Russia by NATO ? Right - IRAN. And China. That's all."
 
So, you are looking at a map and calling that proof of some kind.

"Sometimes you don't need a "proof", you can see the agenda using an map and knowing a bit about history."
 
I can use a map and I know a shitload about history.
 
"Resources and the question Who Profits ? is enough."
 
Yes, but you are connecting all of this to some sort of nebulous "conspiracy." I want to know more because I frankly don't believe it.
 
"And if you ask for "proof" - who would deliver it ? When a "conspiracy" site delivers one, it's dismissed, and when a mass media slogan shows up it's takan as proof."
 
Well, you could show me proof and I can research its validity on my own. The problem is that most of those conspiracy sites also talk about lizard people so I laugh them off.
 
"To me, proof is when I see that a plan was created over a time frame and the steps have become visible one by one.
Wesley Clark had a good one on this:
https://youtu.be/f7NsXFnzJGw
https://youtu.be/9RC1Mepk_Sw
Hey, this is a general of the US army. What the fuck do you need more ?"
 
So, let's see. The US takes advantage of a series of terrorist attacks to attack some countries on a list. I can buy that, sure. I felt the same way after 9-11.
But, the key is TAKING ADVANTAGE OFF, in other words using the attacks to further US interests. That's plausible. But to pin the attacks on the Mossad or CIA is ridiculous because there is no actual proof of that. So, to me, the research I did on it, convinced me that 9-11 conspiracy theories are horseshit.
 
I don't believe in nebulous conspiracies because, let's face it, humans suck at keeping secrets. After what, 16 years? No one has come forward to confirm anything about some "conspiracy."
So, that's where we are, Stone-Eater.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 9:44pm
@Dannl Yoder:
"Jeffrey, FDR did not return from the Malta. A double did.
Too much for your mind to bear?
Are there clones?
Good question.
I will tell you this ( for other readers) science is amuk!
THE Rock is not the Rock ( not the original Dwayne Johnson)
Angela Jolie is not the original and you know what Jeffrey? I do not cars what you make of that.
Those are just facts..live with it. There are doppelgänger. I will say that, but the fact remains: the originals are gone."
 
Dannl, I like you OK even though you are a crazy, old, Nazi-Amish bastard.
 
But....seriously, brother, you need some help.
 
 
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Jul 28, 2017 - 9:50pm
Jeffrey
 
 I want to know more because I frankly don't believe it.
 
What DO you believe ? Tell me. The we'll go from there.
John G Added Jul 28, 2017 - 10:03pm
You won't get any honesty from Kelly. He's like Corey. 
John G Added Jul 28, 2017 - 10:07pm
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 28, 2017 - 10:16pm
Well, John, at least you got my last name right.
John G Added Jul 28, 2017 - 10:40pm
You're a hypocrite and a fraud.
John Minehan Added Jul 29, 2017 - 12:44am
"You're a hypocrite and a fraud."
 
And you, John, are incredibly repetitive and dull. 
John G Added Jul 29, 2017 - 3:57am
As are you military boy. Like Kelly you can never answer a straightforward question.
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 29, 2017 - 7:50am
So for example a Maple tree has beauty, but a lizard that imitates a Maple leaf is a disgusting imitation of beauty (but still you shouldn't kill lizards because they aren't harmful).
   Really, nature loves goodness; fairness, justice, mercy and truth.
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 29, 2017 - 8:17am
Mahabharata, book 4
Yudhisthira said:
     Knowing as I do the true course of virtue, which, however is so very difficult of being known, how can I forcibly grind virtue down like grinding the mountains of Meru?'
Ganguli Translation.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 29, 2017 - 9:57am
@Stone-Eater Friedli
"What DO you believe ? Tell me. The we'll go from there."

Well, I agree that governments do crappy things to its citizens. MKUltra and the Tuskegee Experiments prove that. I also agree that governments will take advantage of tragedies to push agendas, 9-11 proves that. But, governments also suck at keeping secrets, which is why they are always found out.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 29, 2017 - 10:55am
No, I'll keep my avatar the way it is, thanks.  I'm rather fond of it.
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 29, 2017 - 11:11am
When I say " Nature loves beauty" I'm not just talking about appearance, I'm referring to a basic principle underlying nature.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 29, 2017 - 11:31am
@Tom Purcell:
"It suits you bud, that avatar. The eye sockets are empty, and you can't seem to see what's right in front of your face."
 
I actually like it because it suits my Hasbara disguise.
 
LOL
I picked it out because Autumn told me I needed an avatar.  When I use avatars I like things that are different.  Also, I don't consider myself particularly photogenic (I exasperate my wife when she forces me to take pictures).
 
So, that's the story of my avatar.  I see just fine, thank you.  
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 30, 2017 - 12:57pm
Jeffrey:
      They were just misguided men who wanted to save their country, and every moral consideration was subsurvient to that interest. As the speech says they shot servicemen who failed to do their job.
The country is in peril, save the nation. They went way too far as many nations do during war. Even in our country, in this period, people dislike a "cockeyed, crusading bunch that won't go along".
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 30, 2017 - 1:09pm
If a government gets it's hands caught in the cookie jar(i.e. breaking the law), the only thing it can do is keep going till it's empty.
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 30, 2017 - 1:15pm
Christian countries, especially the Great Powers, are not supposed to go to war with each other since the time of the Peace of Westphalia, and after the Congress of Vienna and Metternich, Napoleon violated the rule he was punished.
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 30, 2017 - 1:22pm
In Great Britain there was a lot of competition for the Crown, but those were really civil wars which ended with the Glorious Revolution and the Declaration of Right.
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 30, 2017 - 1:32pm
See World Order:
     The Westphalian peace reflected a practical accommodation to reality, not a unique moral insight. It relied on a system of independent states refraining from interference in each other’s domestic affairs and checking each other’s ambitions...
Henry Kissinger..
Barath Nagarajan Added Jul 30, 2017 - 1:41pm
The Crimean War showed the Congress system didn't work, it was over Christianity, the Great Powers couldn't prevent it, it also broke up alliances.
   That Russia annexed Crimea is more for symbolic significance.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 8, 2017 - 9:51pm
Jeffrey Kelly sez: So, that's the story of my avatar.  I see just fine, thank you.- Now, aren't you gonna miss ol Nazi Tom?  LOL 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Aug 8, 2017 - 10:17pm
LOL
Jeffrey Kelly Added Aug 8, 2017 - 10:18pm
I figure I'll write some more on Tom's Auschwitz thread.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 9, 2017 - 6:15pm
Nazi Tom tries to incite with his swastika av....Billy must be busy with his fist in lap, exciting himself with the image and thinking about killing Jews in wheelchairs.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 11, 2017 - 7:08pm
Well,well...it does seem that Nazi Tom Purcell has left us, taken his comments, nazi toys and nazi playground ball and gone home, leaving Billy the Nazi and a few symps to front for him, instead of the other way around.  Just sorry ol Tom took his "Nazi revenge time machine" material with him.  He got openly caught lying and being inaccurate, all in an attempt to fool a weak WB audience who'd believe anything Tom said.  Afterall they wanted him to be the WB gruppenfuhrer if Autumn pulled out.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Aug 11, 2017 - 7:45pm
LOL
Jeff Michka Added Aug 13, 2017 - 6:53pm
Jeffrey Kelly notes: Just imagine if Billy Roper actually had brains instead of being an ignorant, redneck hillbilly-Now, wait for it...I'm sure Billy will be with us soon, fresh from the "battlefield" of Charlotte VA, telling tales of how he single-handedly fought off wave after wave of "antifa" trying to overwhelm his Nazi buddies.  Single handed?  of course, Where do you think his other hand was? LOL
Jeff Michka Added Aug 16, 2017 - 6:07pm
I assume that if there were crimes we have names, yes?-Not if you're on WB.  REGARDLESS OF CONSPIRACY, and assurances it's "all in the open," never names for anybody responsible for issue or theory.  People are suckers for not asking names, and shouldn't give up asking the obvious,"Who are these people?"  They can't tell you, or make you guess. LOL
FOUSESQUAWK Added Sep 18, 2017 - 9:15pm
Notwithstanding any arguments over the meaning of the word, "ausrottung" in Himmler's speech, the context makes it obvious as Kelly says. Many historians think that Himmler's purpose was to make sure his audience knew what was happening and that they were all in it together.
 
Prior to the outbreak of WW2, Hitler spoke to the Reichstag and stated that if the Jews led the world into another world war, it would lead to the "destruction (vernichtung) of the Jewish race in Europe".
 
Also reportedly present at the Posen speech by Himmler was Albert Speer. (He claimed that he left before Himmler's speech). Had the prosecutors at Nuremberg had this info and other details of Speer's war crimes involvement, he likely would have been hanged.
 
Holocaust deniers have a hard time explaining why if it were a hoax, Germany to this day educates their youth about it and acknowledges guilt. It is also hard to explain why the commandant of Auschwitz, Rudolf Hoess wrote a book admitting his guilt before he was hanged.

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