Congress Retaliates!

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Retaliates indeed.  Not against Russia.  Not against Trump.  Against its own citizens.

Congress passes 419-3 for new sanctions against Russia and reinstates the cold war.

 

If you are not convinced now that there is a serious problem in the "establishment" . . . aka Congress, not sure you will ever be.  But here I will try to make a compelling case.

 

First, there is zero evidence of any Russia meddling in our 2016 presidential election.  None.  All hearsay.  All invented by the MSM to justify to their cult followers why the MSM lied for an entire year that Hillary would win.  So they lie again.  Lie upon lie upon lie.  All lies.  Congress passes these new sanctions, they say, in response to accusations of Russia meddling.  More lies.  They didn't pass the bill because of meddling.  I'll get to that.

 

Does Congress actually believe Russia "meddled" in our elections?  A few probably, but the majority do not believe any of it.  Moreso, Congress has not justified, to the American people, that a new cold war is merited.  All hearsay evidence and broadcast nonsense from the MSM.  Congress uses this as an excuse.

 

Congress knew it had a fight coming with Trump.  Trump wants to clean up the corruption.  He has already begun to change the way Congress does business and wants more drastic changes.  These changes, giving power back to the people, Trump must remove the power from the government.  This is a very simple inverse relationship and this is the Big Rub in Congress.

 

"Don't you dare take our feed troughs or we are burning you down."  

One would think that alone is the Congressional motive for voting Russian sanctions.  It is not.  It is very much this . . .

 

 

Raises gun and points it at American voter's heads . . .

Congress,  "We will see about that".

 

This legislation was the PERFECT opportunity to wield this weapon against American voters.  The perfect opportunity.   And they know it.  

 

"Now we will make you fear".

 

Welcome to America.  The corrupted Republic.  Only God knows where this ends.  And everyone is at risk.  Not just the American public.  The only division of power now in the USA that has not been either wracked with controversy (President) or completely corrupt (Congress) is the Judicial branch.  The American government is broken.  And we may push the Great Bear into an economic corner where it may not have a choice but to strike back.

 

I hope we make the America PEOPLE great again.  Free from this blatant government corruption.  And great when power will be back in the arms of its people.   I trust it is not too late.

Comments

John G Added Aug 8, 2017 - 1:10am
He signed it. 
No principles anywhere.
EXPAT Added Aug 8, 2017 - 1:41am
There was an old TV show called The Liars club, where the biggest liar won a prize. That show has now been copied as a live play in Washington, D.C.!
 
How long before USA copies Venezuela? I think maybe a year.
 
Good article William, but nobody will care. They all have their own version of Liars Club dancing in their heads!
EXPAT Added Aug 8, 2017 - 1:43am
For once I agree with you John G. He could have sent it on without signature. No Principles anywhere!
Patrick Writes Added Aug 8, 2017 - 2:25am
Good post. I didn't know why the U.S. put sanctions on Russia either. 
wsucram15 Added Aug 8, 2017 - 3:14am
William, Expat, Patrick and JohnG..
Just one question if you all know its corrupt..why arent you doing something about it?  I see you bitching about opposition (which is me btw-on here), but I see you doing nothing to move the conversation in your direction.
I could go point for point with you William, like yourself, I am very well versed in the Trump vs liberal debate on most topics.
However, I liked your article.  Sometimes in all of this nasty mess I sit back and think to myself "why is this relevant or is this true?"
The thing that keeps me going _I swear this is true-
"I wrote a reply once to Mike Haluska and yourself where you both said you would listen to what I said if I could provide you evidence about Trump." - thats it.  I researched the hell out of that and I provided you  with a few bites of what I found.
You both agreed he had a questionable past but you overlooked my point about him completely.  Which to be honest I expected but at least you both stopped arguing with me.
The thing is though..I have dug so much more into that since then.
 
One thing I will say about all of this, no one on this site knows what evidence they have or how far Russia did or did not intrude into our elections.
Is it a ruse..another agenda?  Whats up?  Im listening and I will check it out.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Aug 8, 2017 - 6:01am
William
 
We may not agree on everything, but here Europe nods :)
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Aug 8, 2017 - 6:03am
Jeanne
 
It's about resources, nothing else in the end. And about who's the biggest on that planet. Be that in size or in economic power. Best would be both LOL
John G Added Aug 8, 2017 - 6:04am
What are you doing Jeanne or whatever the F your name is?
You're not the opposition to anything.
Who the F are you trying to fool?
William Stockton Added Aug 8, 2017 - 8:32am
Ya Expat.  I too was pissed he signed.  But then I realized something.  One, It was veto-proof.  Secondly, Trump is very concerned about a vote for impeachment.  Not because he would deserve it.  But for very much the same reasons Congress voted 419-3 against the American people.  This was an impeachment vote against the voters.  Trump sees his turn coming.  
Congress is also worried.  They saw the voters elect an outsider and disruptor.
 
I think it was wise to not fall on the sword and veto as merely a gesture and symbol.  A huge fight is coming between Trump and Congress.  The legislative branch will be dragged in the fight for sure.
William Stockton Added Aug 8, 2017 - 8:41am
Jeanne,  "One thing I will say about all of this, no one on this site knows what evidence they have or how far Russia did or did not intrude into our elections."
 
Isn't THIS the problem?  I mean really . . . 
 
Shouldn't the American public know why we are being dragged into a new cold war?  I say this is craptastic & corrupt Congressional bullshit.
There is no good reason the public can't know the evidence of Russia collusion . . . unless there really is no evidence and Congress has nothing to justify.
 
Aside...it is good you didn't move to Canada and exit Writerbeat completely.  I'm sure we will have opportunities to argue more in the future.  :)
William Stockton Added Aug 8, 2017 - 8:53am
Oh and Jeanne . . . guess what started the American Revolution and the Protestant Reformation . . . oh ya.  That's right.  Writing!
 
I'm baffled you would argue we are not doing anything to change things unless you think changing the world is . . .  picking up pitchforks and torches and marching on the local town hall at midnight.
 
Come on!
James E. Unekis Added Aug 8, 2017 - 9:43am
Good post William.  I wish there was a big RESET button we could push but there isn't.  We are at a great divide.  I fear that the outcome will not be a good one.
Skip Stein Added Aug 8, 2017 - 9:50am
Russian sanctions, N. Korea sanctions, when have they EVER worked for any significant amount of impact?  Never as far as I can recall.  Sure there is a lot of moaning, weeping and gnashing of teeth but it really never amounts to much.  It's ALL just smoke and mirrors and many just fall for it.  Some may actually believe it accomplishes something but, I doubt it does.
 
No the only real impact is standing Strong and Backing your play.  That, is something Trump is and has shown to be consistent.  ACTION, not words.  Politicians, especially are big about talk but cave when pressure mounts.  They have no backbone, balls or faith in America and the American People. Most are self-serving megalomaniacal fools.
 
People talk about term limits, but we already have that.  VOTE the bastards out of office.  ALL of these career politicians and their bureaucratic cabal are corrupt to the core.  How else can they amass million$ on civil servants pay?  ALWAYS follow the money trail.
 
At least Trump is already a billionaire and that is a prime reason why I and many others voted for him.  That and his history of WINNING against the political machine (mostly in NY).  He scares the piss out of Congress and the establishment as he continues to, at least try, to follow through on ALL his campaign promises. When did you EVER see that happen?
 
Trump really is in a fetid swamp of sedition, crime and treasonous bastards who would all sacrifice their own mothers and their Country for another term in office and the power/graft that comes with it.
 
Just look at the post-election rallies.  WE The PEOPLE are fully behind Trump.  WE must continue to be vocal, here and everywhere on social media (no one believes the press any more), threaten these corrupt assholes with the one thing they fear most, loosing their re-election bid (do it anyway).  Call, write post on social media and support the conservative groundswell that elected President Trump.
 
And NO, I do NOT support everything he is doing and think some of his appointments stink; especially that little scoundrel Sessions.  But he IS shaking things up and scaring the hell out of the corrupt bastards in the D.C. swamp and Capitals everywhere.  But I DO support Our President: http://plant-basedconservatives.com/trump-card.html
Dino Manalis Added Aug 8, 2017 - 9:54am
We don't want another Cold War or World War III and Congress shouldn't provoke it!  They ought not tie the president's hands when it comes to foreign policy, it may be unconstitutional.  Trump has to improve Russo-American relations in pursuit of world peace and stability, including in Syria and Ukraine.
William Stockton Added Aug 8, 2017 - 11:32am
Great points Skip!
William Stockton Added Aug 8, 2017 - 11:33am
Yes Dino.  That Congressional vote was the most irresponsible legislative action I have seen to date.  It is NOT the will of the people.
William Stockton Added Aug 8, 2017 - 11:44am
James, Thanks for the comments.  I fear the worst, but hope and trust for the best.  I have faith in the American voter.  They are slowly waking up after decades of the guilt labeling and identity politics by the elites which do nobody good . . . except for the elite themselves.
RJGnyc Added Aug 8, 2017 - 1:05pm
1. Yes, there is evidence of election interference; it is not made up by a monolithic "MSM" conspiracy.
2. The sanctions law will not start WW III; that is hyperbole.
3. You lifted an old National Lampoon cover for your post, so I think your commitment to the rule of law is questionable.  Sorry, but that's the truth.  Feel free to delete this post if you like, but it will still be true.
wsucram15 Added Aug 8, 2017 - 1:32pm
William:
I will take these one at a time,
On the public information, sure we should, once this goes to trial.  During and investigative process however, in cases, that type of thing isn’t public in any case until charges or a case is brought against individual (s).   That is standard procedure.  I believe the first time anyone will hear anything is discovery.  Any federal trial in the past has been held this way, and even the trial for Nixon took 2 years why would this be any different? 
The leaks you are getting may or may not be real, and are most likely intentional.
But I don’t think he will ever reach the impeachment stage by H of R, I have money on it.  Sick I know but even if he is dead guilty, it will never happen.
 
Onto the “congressional” sanctions over Russian interference in our elections. Try to remember it is a REPUBLICAN Congress.  This has a good bit to do with a VERY large oil deal with Roscof and Exxon in the Arctic which was interrupted in 2012 and again by Obama.  The deal is worth multi-billions to both companies and is really stopping Exxon from becoming larger (a regulatory measure – wrong but true) and holding up Putin and his wealth until the finances can be tracked for laundering into American system.    Actually on that end, Exxon tried to get those sanctions waived and Trump himself denied them.  It is driving the cost of oil up in Russia who is a supplier to China.  I personally think until we get what we need done, it’s a smart move globally.  You are the people who bitch we blow everyone up and don’t deal with countries in a more intelligent way. 
 
It has to do with oil and money..like most things American, stop watching the news and learn to listen.  I thought William you had a “friend” in the news industry.  There isn’t much to this, it has been reported but some of the private enterprise people involved have sued (I swear) over mention of them in this venture.    I believe this happened in response to the G20 meetings and Trumps refusal to cooperate with Congress on this matter.  They were going to override him and this was the easiest way to get it done.    Also it does let mueller do his investigation and clear up this crap.  The alternative is for them to pass a Ken Starr type "Independent Counsel" investigation from all branches of government and I do believe if he fired Mueller you would have the same support for that.
 
 
Now onto the pitchforks..wtf, and why are you so demeaning to me?  I protest during the day and with a permit.  I have never been arrested..in my life.  Almost once at the FCC hearing but decided that I had filed my objections online (which I have done twice- since the topic has come up 2x) and no one else cares if they don’t have any quality or anything else. I can do without.
Off topic-
Also right now the FCC is going to pass a merger with Sinclair Broadcasting..a small company that will soon own most of your broadcasting experience in the US. They own many Fox stations, NBC, ABC, CBS locally in your areas. Right now they own over half the US local stations and its content after the merger it will be ¾.  Against monopoly laws right, well Trump changed the laws to help them.   If you thought your news was bad before..its really going to be bad.
Ive been inside this company 4 times, they call me on occasion to come in and interview.  Its never the same person, they always say they are restructuring and that the turnover is high. It is a high security bldg. and one that requires you have a specific opinion and specifically do only your job.  My question is always “then why did you call me because you see I have varied experience and I excel at multitasking and supervision between departments.”  The conversation usually ends there, because its on my resume.  The last time, I told my girl who calls me on this stuff to block them on my prospective employers list.   It seems not very organized and I know they were charged by the Federal government in 2014 for employment violations.  But it’s a weird company. 
Sorry to get off topic..but that merger has me concerned about the news…instead of it affecting it on the network level, this company controls the message on the local level and they are very locked down about it. You have to pass a security check for an interview.
 
Anyway Mike,  I always listen to your pov…its time for the Trump people, in spite of their stringent support of Trump to TRY TRY TRY..to stop arguing and at least listen to concerns.  Have patience with this investigation. We have had to sit few a few of your investigations and protests.
EXPAT Added Aug 8, 2017 - 2:11pm
William.
When a Bill is passed and sent to the President, he has  three options.
1. He can sign it. Which means he is in agreement
2. He can Veto it. But as you point out, that would be overridden
3. He can pass the Bill on without signature which means he does not agree, but is acquiescing to the will of Congress.
 
I believe he should have stood up to this deluded Accusation and sent the Bill on without signature. By signing he demonstrated that he is not a strong President.
 
He actually strengthened Putin's domestic power! The Russian people now have a threat to their sovereignty from a foreign nation, so Putin is the lesser of two evils.
Bill H. Added Aug 8, 2017 - 2:20pm
 
wsucram15 - The Sinclair merger is attune to the similar formation of "exclusive" news outlets in other dictator controlled countries. This is one of Trump's dreams since he was unable to start up his "Trump Television Network" that he was planning prior to the election, although he is still trying to change the FCC rules to allow this.
Most diehard Trump supporters will hear nothing other than what comes from their Orange Dictator's lips. It is the only reasoning they know.
wsucram15 Added Aug 8, 2017 - 2:33pm
I know..Have you written to the FCC yet to object.  I at least did that, even thought its fixed by Trump, its been documented by thousands and the procedure is objection by the people be taken into account.
 
I also know the small percentage of Trump supporters will not believe this until it happens.  It is a Putin like autocratic step towards absolute control over the media and the message.
 
At some point, other things will change as well.  He really is a dangerous man.
wsucram15 Added Aug 8, 2017 - 2:38pm
Expat..
if he would have vetoed that bill, "standing up to Congress", he would have lost his pride completely AND ALL his support on Capital Hill.
You dont seem to understand, without them, he cant legislate at all. 
They can legislate to a point, without him.    Im sure something was worked out in his favor before he signed the bill.
This isnt schoolhouse rock.
EXPAT Added Aug 8, 2017 - 2:45pm
Second point William.
Yes, Russia interfered with USA elections. But not like the Democrats portray it. This was a very cleaver turnaround of events.
 
Every nation that is capable, tries to influence political events in countries of interest. You can find a list of those Nations in the Clinton Speaking tours. As Sec. of State, Hillary had great influence over foreign affairs, and Influence Peddling was an old Clinton fund raising tactic. Remember when Bill sold the Whitehouse bedroom for donations? The Clinton foundation was their Political slush fund.
 
The Russians, the Israelis, Saudi's, the Chinese, Japanese, OPEC, etc. All spend billions on lobbyists to influence Politics in USA. And USA does their best to influence foreign elections. Obama sending money and political operatives to Israel to defeat Netanyahu.
 
How cleaver to turn Democratic collusion into a, the Russians  wanted Trump investigation. If you want to end foreign influence in USA politics, investigate The Clinton foundation, and the hundreds of millions paid for speaking engagements to Bill and Hillary, so they could buy influence in the Democratic Party. Or should I say to destroy any chance of Bernie winning the Primary. 
 
Hillary said they were broke when she took the Sec. of State post. When she ran for POTUS her financial disclosure form said her personal worth was:  Jun 9, 2016 ... She has an estimated worth of $45 million, according to Forbes.
EXPAT Added Aug 8, 2017 - 2:54pm
wsucram15 Added Aug 8, 2017 - 2:38pm

 


Expat..
if he would have vetoed that bill, "standing up to Congress", he would have lost his pride completely AND ALL his support on Capital Hill.
You dont seem to understand, without them, he cant legislate at all. 
They can legislate to a point, without him.    Im sure something was worked out in his favor before he signed the bill.
This isnt schoolhouse rock.
 
 What part of not signing didn't you understand?
 
3. He can pass the Bill on without signature which means he does not agree, but is acquiescing to the will of Congress.
 
Is it your contention that POTUS must be a rubber stamp for Congress? How ridiculous. You live in fairytale land, with headphones playing school house rock.LOL
wsucram15 Added Aug 8, 2017 - 3:01pm
But he didnt do that..he agreed..just like he agreed on the sanctions he reinforced against the oil deal I talked about. 
He is just not who you think he is...it didnt benefit him, but I promise something did to get that signature.
Expat..its a corrupt system and you know that.  You think what you want over in Thailand...
EXPAT Added Aug 8, 2017 - 3:06pm
We live in an era, where the 4th. estate has become a propaganda machine.
Countries all around the world are clamping down on Media. The latest being Israel banning Al-Jazeera.
The Internet Giants are being challenged to monitor their content.
Leaking, Phishing, robo calling, fake news, fake polls, and rabid ideology, are mandating media control.
No Government can operate without secure information. Contingency plans are necessary, but friends might not like knowing they are targets.
wsucram15 Added Aug 8, 2017 - 3:18pm
Ok Expat...then you no longer believe in the Bill of Rights.
I have had enough of your ranting.
This comment was for William anyway...he will give me enough feedback but it will be levelheaded and perhaps can be discussed and not argued.
EXPAT Added Aug 8, 2017 - 3:28pm
Now you're having private conversations? You think facts are rantings. Little Tommy was right about you.
This wsucram15 is either the KID, or Jeanne is in change of life.
Your comment was addressed to me! DELUSIONAL!!!!
George N Romey Added Aug 8, 2017 - 7:42pm
In the interim millions of Americans are dying economically.  Where is their investigation?
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Aug 8, 2017 - 8:03pm
Expat
 
Jeanne is ok. WTF is up ? Do you like women with a clear mind or do you prefer genderless stuff like Clinton or Thatcher ?
 
Please.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Aug 8, 2017 - 8:12pm
BTW: I admire women not as sex stuff but as human beings that care for the next. Why ? Because they give birth and have another feeling towards life than we men. Men and women have the same responsability for their kids and -
 
- Men have to understand that they have to change and SHOW their emotions...don't be a macho
 
- Women have to understand that they are not born to do men's jobs.
 
Both had their roles - as animals (as we are) have their role defined by nature.
 
RESPECT each role. That's all-
 
And it works damn good - until now - in - Africa.
William Stockton Added Aug 8, 2017 - 8:58pm
Jeanne, I appreciate that explanation of your theory.  It very well could be that new information about Russian "interference" in our 2016 election comes forth.  Two reasons I doubt this.  One, it has already been 9 months since the election.  Nothing.  Secondly, in these days where the government is leaking information like a sieve and still nothing has come out . . . no smoke usually means no fire.
 
I am aware of the majority of Republicans in both house and senate.  That still does not change my opinion that these entrenched politicians are not operating on ethics or values . . . perhaps never were.  These establishment hacks are operating as opportunists to grab up as much of the pie as they can get.  These are career criminals.  They need to go.  I don't care which ticket carries their name.
 
Regarding the pitchfork and torches.  I wasn't even thinking of you when I wrote that.  It was actually Shrek that came to mind.  Sorry!
I commend you for all the work you do to make a difference.
 
William Stockton Added Aug 8, 2017 - 9:07pm
Expat, "Yes, Russia interfered with USA elections."
 
You know what you are saying there . . . right?  You are saying that you are positive some election tampering happened because hey . . . it's Russia.  We know they try to tamper.  And so does the USA.
 
Just replay that for a moment in a real-world scenario.
A cop pulls you over.  He says,
"No Sir.  You were not breaking the law now.  But I know you have some time in the past so I'm writing you up now."
 
That is how ridiculous your argument is . . . 
 
If you have proof, Expat, of Russian tampering . . . you might want to reveal that to the rest of us.  Oh, ya.  We have seen all the un-named sources for the "news" which prove tampering.  LOL  Media lies man.  All fabricated media bull shit.
 
Did Putin make a trip over to the USA and in front of our national assembly advocate Trump?  Did that happen?
Well, Obama did that exact thing in the UK for Brexit.  Now tell me who is meddling in the elections of other nations?
 
William Stockton Added Aug 8, 2017 - 9:17pm
Robert,  "The sanctions law will not start WW III; that is hyperbole."
I didn't say that.  Starting WWIII . . .  haha.  Now you want WWIII? 
 
I wouldn't delete your comments.  They were funny!
William Stockton Added Aug 8, 2017 - 9:20pm
George, "In the interim millions of Americans are dying economically.  Where is their investigation?"
 
Nice and succinct.  Bravo.  However, there is a long line of government corruption remaining to be processed.  Years of processing.  Miles and miles and big brown piles.
William Stockton Added Aug 8, 2017 - 9:27pm
Bill H, "Most diehard Trump supporters will hear nothing other than what comes from their Orange Dictator's lips"
 
Did you say something?  I can barely hear you.  
EXPAT Added Aug 8, 2017 - 9:49pm
William.
Every nation that has the means, interferes/influences the elections/political process of every nation of interest.
I don't know how to say that anymore clearly!
 
Thomas Napers Added Aug 9, 2017 - 3:38am
William - So do you deny the assertion by US Intelligence that Russia has a state sponsored cyber espionage program that hacked into the DNC email database and leaked emails that harmed Clinton?
William Stockton Added Aug 9, 2017 - 6:48am
Thomas, I have read the pros and the denials about that claim.  The problem with that claim is that even if it were true that there was a hacking of some DNC server, there are no fingerprints.  It gets even harder then to prove who the hackers really were.  People can claim to know because of some hacking code left behind.  Really...as if hacking algorithms are not prolific on the dark web. 
 
Lastly, There was no investigation as the DNC would not let the FBI look at their servers to verify (hmmm).  So this claim has never had government verification and is solely made by the DNC. 
Well....how convenient.
Stephen Hunter Added Aug 9, 2017 - 8:31am
William, are you at all concerned about the rise of populism around the globe? Whipping people up by saying how much people from "other countries" or from other ethnic groups within their own country " are taking away jobs etc ,  things that just make people want to fight? Whip up emotions and logical thought is out the window. 
Putting up walls will only keep people out for so long. 
William Stockton Added Aug 9, 2017 - 9:38am
Stephan, "William, are you at all concerned about the rise of populism around the globe?"
 
What should I be concerned about?
With the definition of populism (support for the concerns of ordinary people), I'm struggling to understand what would be my concern? You mean the rise of the middle class? Do you mean the new focus on meeting the needs of the majority instead of hyper-focusing on special interest groups?
Special needs projects for the elites who would turn a society (the majority) upside down to cater to a few.
 
In rock climbing, the better climbers go first. The reason? They can guide the weaker climbers and provide a taught safety line in case the weaker climbers fall. If the sport of rock climbing said that they need to put weak climbers first, everyone would be in danger . . . including the stronger climbers.
I'm all for safety lines in society and helping the weak. However, the strategy by progressives is all wrong and dangerous to everyone.
 
And how does your question relate to this article?
wsucram15 Added Aug 9, 2017 - 12:23pm
William..I have no idea what happened in the elections, nor do you.  I have an inclination this entire mess has more to do with oil and money (as usual) on the side of those in power than election interference which has gone in their favor, intentional or not.
 
There is a large subtext coming out of this that has gotten people concerned about this mess, whether it was interference in the investigation to lawyering up.  Thats what I am getting out of this and what the specialists investigating this appear to be after. 
 
Either way, you rant and rave all you want..this went on for years with Democrats, specifically the Clintons to the tune of 100 million.  I dont even like them but I dont want to hear this partisan story line.  This needs to be cleared so we can move on ...he is no one special, except that he is a public servant being being paid and spending tax dollars, therefore investigated as requested by a large majority of the people.  Now he isnt being detained, if he was, I could see your objections..but he is not.
Bill H. Added Aug 9, 2017 - 4:09pm
wsucram15-
I believe you hit the nail right on the head.
I think we will discover that the secret formula is Russia + Rex Tillerson + Oil = Profits (not to include the chance to build a few hotels or skyscrapers).
Donna Added Aug 9, 2017 - 4:45pm
@ William, i liked the article, move you up is status, however i agree with Bill H. all for profit..
wsucram15 Added Aug 9, 2017 - 7:53pm
BillH..
Ehhh, well its more complicated than just Exxon and Tillerson. Rosneft could own part of Citgo as well.  Now Tillerson has had something to do with this for sure and perhaps part of the Exxon...
Exxon has been compliant so far with the sanctions.  But what is happening now, according to news outlets ..INCLUDING FOXXXXX BUSINESS, is that the venezuela company is going to default on a loan and then Rosneft will own a part or controlling share in 3 of our oil suppliers.
In May Senators posed legislation to stop Rostneft from seizing Citgos assets.  The claims are said to be in the multi- billions and will take years to work out.  They did not default in May and its all I know as of right now.
But we have major financial interests involved here.  Not that we could take, but that we could lose.  I dont think people understand what would happen if another country (lets think back to the 70s) owned all the oil in the US.
This is all about money and oil, the purchase of and transfer of illegal monies to US via VEB,Cypress or possibly just large property purchases.
Bill..lol, Im sure its not even close to that simple or they would have figured it out by now.
John G Added Aug 9, 2017 - 8:29pm
Illegal money?
Wowsers. 
wsucram15 Added Aug 9, 2017 - 8:51pm
ok..transfer of Russian mob money through US banks, how about that?  But right now they are only looking at two banks i believe.
Now John, if you have nothing constructive to say, find someone else to bother.
William Stockton Added Aug 9, 2017 - 9:05pm
Well, you guys say this 419-3 vote (the biggest bipartisan vote in decades) was for profit, I say for power . . . even more nefarious . . . a direct threat to the voters.
 
Well, you have a long way to go yet in saying there were that many Democrats voting for oil profits.  Wow, people.  Did I miss something?
wsucram15 Added Aug 9, 2017 - 9:18pm
Sorry William I came in somewhere in the middle but I disagree that any of this Russian mess is just a bout the vote.
Thats where I was headed anyway.
As far as your article, it was fascinating that Congress lit up like a bell for this one, but like I said, I think it was more about holding Trump at bay in order to see what would happen in other areas first.  I dont think they want him doing anything with Russia until they have the financial stuff cleared up. 
 
They did just raid Mannaforts house... what they are looking for is financial...you can laugh but this is what is happening.
 
 
John G Added Aug 9, 2017 - 9:25pm
Jeanne, $US can only exist as reserves in US bank accounts, as treasury bonds or as paper notes.
So your premise is just more paranoid drivel.
Your characterisation of Russian businesses as 'the Russian mob'  is pretty distasteful. 
I guess you are one of those American exceptionalists who don't think that they are racists.
William Stockton Added Aug 9, 2017 - 9:52pm
 Not surprised at the raid.  Not the least bit.  This is the left's last opportunity for revenge in losing 2 billion dollars in an election and bankrupting the DNC.  And to also mention the ongoing lawsuits against the DNC for election fraud that will ensure it remains in a financial hole through 2020.
 
If Muller does not get a head . . . the Democrats lose again!   And we know that is not going to happen.  They will probably find some campaign irregularities and call it fraud.  Ok. 
 
If they don't take down Trump with this, there will be hell to pay in the next 7.5 years.  The DNC robbed its own voters blind.  That DNC corruption, a putrid cancer in American politics, is just lying below the surface and will be excised for all to see if Trump remains.  They absolutely should take the best shot they can now. 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Aug 9, 2017 - 9:59pm
It is simply a fact that Russia meddled in the last election.
Period.
It is also a fact that Russia has been interfering in other elections in other countries.
Period.
Now, I dispute that this got Trump elected.  The man has all the sleazy charm of a used car salesman, he managed to tap into populist feelings (among other things) in this country to get elected.  It's unfortunate but that's how things wound up.  
Now, what is in dispute is how much contact Trump or his proxies had with the Russians before the election or afterwards.  This is something we don't really know yet.  We know there was some, we just don't know how much or even if it was illegal.
I do feel sanctions are justified.  Simply allowing Russia to skate free is intolerable.  Squeezing them is a way to get them to hurt enough to knock it off.
If they don't, squeeze more.  And reciprocate. 
John G Added Aug 9, 2017 - 10:07pm
Kelly. It is simply a fact that Russia meddled in the last election.
Period.
Oh stop it you troll.
I do feel sanctions are justified.  
Then you are a warmonger with no regard for law or due process.
You 'centrist' dems have crossed into militant neoconservatism.
wsucram15 Added Aug 9, 2017 - 10:10pm
William..
I am sorry I got sidetracked and then my computer updated. Hey look, I do believe most of this situation is financial and Congress is doing this to hold him back from other things.  As I said there are vested interests for many people right now, and they are stopping it until there is an answer to the political nightmare going on right now.
 
Mannaforts house got raided with a federal warrant, first thing in am..
something is up, they were looking for financial stuff.  In his case it would be Cypress Bank, VEB and other links coming into US.
 
You dont really think the motivations of the people for things being done are really in the news... do you? 
 
William Stockton Added Aug 9, 2017 - 10:12pm
Jeffrey, "It is simply a fact that Russia meddled in the last election."
 
Just like I asked Tom (our resident German), prove it!  It seems you and he have more in common than you might think!  That would be inventing facts to meet your results.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Aug 9, 2017 - 10:22pm
@John G.
"Kelly. It is simply a fact that Russia meddled in the last election.
Period.
Oh stop it you troll.
I do feel sanctions are justified.
Then you are a warmonger with no regard for law or due process.
You 'centrist' dems have crossed into militant neoconservatism."
 
John, did I accidentally call your mom a name or something?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Aug 9, 2017 - 10:24pm
@William Stockton:
"Just like I asked Tom (our resident German), prove it! It seems you and he have more in common than you might think! That would be inventing facts to meet your results."
 
Please don't ever compare me to Neo-Nazi Holocaust denier, William.  That's unnecessarily insulting.
 
As for proof, I'm on my way to bed.  It'll have to wait for tomorrow.
John G Added Aug 9, 2017 - 10:29pm
Yep, Kelly only ever responds with trivial questions. It can never back up his blanket assertions and cannot be honest.
Dodge, dodge, dodge.
Saint George Added Aug 10, 2017 - 3:14am
For whom do you shill, John-g? Russia? Who is your cadre officer?
 
Do tell.
 
Curious minds want to know.
William Stockton Added Aug 10, 2017 - 10:10am
Jeffrey, "That's unnecessarily insulting."
 
Sorry.  I didn't mean it as a direct comparison.  You and I argued side by side against Tom who was making claims without substantive proof.   I would have expected you to be consistent as you had been previously.  
William Stockton Added Aug 10, 2017 - 10:27am
Jeanne,  "and they are stopping it until there is an answer to the political nightmare going on right now"
 
If that were the reason, it doesn't explain the threat against voters . . . unless their new plans are to punish the voters to stop Trump (hence my article).
 
As far as the raid it is pretty simple.  They are turning the screws on Mannafort . . .  Intimidating him to "confess" some dirt on Trump.  Mannafort could have pleaded the 5th but instead agreed to testify at the Senate Judiciary committee.  The committee then dropped their request for him to testify.  Now he gets raided?
Bill H. Added Aug 10, 2017 - 11:46am
Trump was headed downhill even before he was elected. I predicted a much earlier departure than what reality will dictate, but it will occur.
I guess that says a lot for our system in that it doesn't allow unwarranted impeachment or frivolous use of the 25th amendment. Also the safeguards in-place to allow a full-on Dictator to operate appear to be working well so far, even as Trump tries to eliminate them.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Aug 10, 2017 - 11:48am
William, reading about the raid on Manafort, it seems the FBI is doubtful of his full cooperation and raided his home to collect information.
 
In any case, here is a timeline of the investigation, up to July of this year.  It includes links to articles and papers:
http://www.factcheck.org/2017/06/timeline-russia-investigation/
 
This is just easier than me trying to go line by line with you.  As you can see, the investigation stretches back to 2015.  This is why I call this a fact.  Whether or not Trump actually knew something is yet to be seen.
 
 
William Stockton Added Aug 10, 2017 - 12:22pm
Jeffrey, In the article you posted:
"At this point, no evidence of collusion between the Russians and the Trump campaign has been made public. It may or may not exist. However, there is an ongoing investigation."
 
No new news here.  The establishment will fall all over themselves to turn Russian "foul-play" into the cause of a $2 billion election loss.  Why should anyone expect the swamp to just lay down and accept defeat?  I welcome this fight as it will expose motives and corruption for all to see.  
 
Muller will get his "evil conspirator" eventually.   But the public will rightly see this for what it really is . . . 2017 DC Witch Trials.
wsucram15 Added Aug 10, 2017 - 2:15pm
I dont understand how tying trumps hands from releasing sanctions for personal profit (maybe not his) or election tampering by another country, is a "threat" to any person not directly involved.  All Congress did was put the sanctions in place and limit his ability to override the sanctions.  Its something you people wanted done and complained about during Obamas time in office. 
 
William..I just want the answers as much as will be told anyway, I am a fact person-all cards on the table.  I dont give a damn about the politics involved, Trump, Clinton, Mannafort..etc. are just the players, I want to know how this happened and why. 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Aug 10, 2017 - 2:30pm
Look, William, I understand we are going to look at this differently.  I loathe Trump and all he stands for.  He ran on a demagogue's platform and tapped into a really sad underbelly of US society.  Hey, my brother and sister-in-law voted for him (though they are staunch Republicans and would have voted for whoever the Republicans tossed up).
 
Now, I've never believed that all Trump supporters are racist or whatever, that simply is not the case.  He tapped into the disaffected and disappointed to get votes, that's what demagogues do.  You and other Trump supporters (versus those that voted for him because they always vote Republican or those who didn't want Clinton) honestly believe in #MAGA and "Drain the Swamp."  That's certainly your right to believe that.
 
But, William, that whole "Drain the Swamp" thing is crap.  His cabinet reads like a pamphlet on how to dig a swamp deeper.  Trump has no clue what he is doing and that's a dangerous person to place in the position of president.  
 
I gave him a chance, William, I really did.  I thought the office might humble him and he would grow while putting good people around him.  Instead I got Steve Bannon, Betsy DeVos and Jeff Sessions.  
 
I read an article on this the other day and I agreed with it.  It said that if Trump had moved to the center very early and concentrated on populist issues like the infrastructure and fixing healthcare while throwing the occasional sop to the right-wing loonies it would have worked out pretty well.  Instead his program reads like Breitbart, Infowars and the Tea Party platform.  We also have this lingering scandal regarding the election.
 
You can continue in the same vein, William.  Sorry if I can't drink the Trump Cool-Aid.
 
 
wsucram15 Added Aug 10, 2017 - 3:45pm
William..I agree with some of what Jeffrey Said, only some.  I have been around many people since this election.  Both sides.  Some of the Trump supporters, while they are still firm Republicans, are beginning to question him. 
The "liberals" I know personally, would have done like they do with most Presidents and gone alone if he had tried to work the THEM, you know the people of the US, (not just his base which now stands at 34% or thereabouts)
EVERYONE..wants a President William...no one wants this crap.  This is not the Democrats doing this, the media might be in overdrive a bit..but it is their job.  If he is going to attack them..do you really think they wont come after him?   This is a first amendment right to speech he is trying to impede and he has moved things within the FCC to change the message throughout the US.  This is the 1st step Putin took in an autocratic society.
 
Im not going to tolerate anyone who does something like that, for any reason.  Changing laws to suit himself or his friends.
 
I dont listen to news..I look at actions and I watch what he has done in his Presidency, with his friends and certain IRS regulations. ETC. 
 
 
John G Added Aug 10, 2017 - 5:37pm
Jeanne, you know as much about Russia as you do about quantum physics. Absolutely nothing.
You're just a thick as mince paranoid racist.
wsucram15 Added Aug 11, 2017 - 9:00am
John;
Like most people, I talk to other people if I want to know something of consequence and I research it (unlike most people.) I have a Professor who lived in Russia and has been informative about the country and other global matters.  There are people and newspapers (independent of the state) online and I have had conversations with people that oppose the Putin Government, that I guess travel there, I dont understand that,  But they do it.
 
my understanding-There is an air of democracy but...opponents are removed, freedom of expression is suppressed, women have few rights even in criminal matters, and their electoral system is just something that needs to be done because the executive branch retains control of the courts.  When Putin  decided on how to overrule the Russian Constitution,  he needed look no further than his friend Dimity Medvedev who at one time was President of Russia (now prime minister) -to change the rules for him and then nominate him for a third term (going against the constitution) so he can continue to rule Russia with Medvedev. 
 
Oddly enough and this to me is weird; There are people though that I have spoken to that strongly support Putin, no matter what he and any of his friends have done to people.  They have insisted to me that people taken back into the Russian fold are happy. In spite of what you read or hear.
then there are the "liberals" who tell you what is happening and either go to jail (losing everything you own) or die fighting back.
 
So I dont like the 'semblence. John...not one bit. I dont need to be a physicist or a global specialist.   I can anyalze a situation and having some knowledge of Putin and how he assumed and kept power, that there are similar things I dont like here.   This is NOT to imply Putin is changing the government..but I see a change.  It will be slow, but it is happening.  But I am open for your ideas on this as these ideas here are my observations.
 
If you dont like the comparison.. explain why or shut up.  You insult many people on here like you are very knowledgeable, but I dont see it.  There are others on here that when I read their comments, I can see some sort of intellect.  Interact with people and stop insulting them.  If you feel I dont have a grasp on the situation, please explain..I am happy to listen..but you must answer questions.
John G Added Aug 11, 2017 - 4:58pm
You're just regurgitating US propaganda with no context. I suggest you go there and have a look for yourself how you are being lied to by your media.
Putin is hated by your oligarchs because Russia has regained its independence under his government. That's the biggest crime to the empire.
 
Dave Volek Added Aug 12, 2017 - 10:13am
I don't think much is going to be proven with the Russian investigation. Mr Trump had enough support to be a serious contender for the presidency without any Russian help. And my analysis of the election is that Ms. Clinton put herself in a coin flip decision in an election she was supposed to win. To say that the Russians determined the outcome--even if they managed to sway 200,000 votes--is a bit naive.
 
But if certain people in the White House are indeed innocent of Russian influence peddling, why not let the investigation carry itself through? 
 
 
John G Added Aug 12, 2017 - 5:38pm
The Nation target="_blank" rel="noopener">reports:
Forensic investigators, intelligence analysts, system designers, program architects, and computer scientists of long experience and strongly credentialed are now producing evidence disproving the official version of key events last year. Their work is intricate and continues at a kinetic pace as we speak. But its certain results so far are two, simply stated, and freighted with implications:
∙ There was no hack of the Democratic National Committee’s system on July 5 last year — not by the Russians, not by anyone else. Hard science now demonstrates it was a leak — a download executed locally with a memory key or a similarly portable data-storage device. In short, it was an inside job by someone with access to the DNC’s system. This casts serious doubt on the initial “hack,” as alleged, that led to the very consequential publication of a large store of documents on WikiLeaks last summer.
∙ Forensic investigations of documents made public two weeks prior to the July 5 leak by the person or entity known as Guccifer 2.0 show that they were fraudulent: Before Guccifer posted them they were adulterated by cutting and pasting them into a blank template that had Russian as its default language. Guccifer took responsibility on June 15 for an intrusion the DNC reported on June 14 and professed to be a WikiLeaks source — claims essential to the official narrative implicating Russia in what was soon cast as an extensive hacking operation. To put the point simply, forensic science now devastates this narrative.
Any comment from the screamers?
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Aug 16, 2017 - 2:45pm
Dave
 
Mr Trump had enough support to be a serious contender for the presidency without any Russian help.
 
Right on. All that is simply a game to keep the MIC machine running.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Aug 29, 2017 - 1:02am
Jeanne remains steadfast in her belief that the system works and government agents give a shit what we think. Citizens United changed it to one dollar one vote and we're outvoted billions to one. It's no longer admirable to believe in something that no longer exists. 

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