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I've read that latest "debate" where Tom was accused by Expat to be a coward. I've read the whole shit on that article, the accusations, no, YOU, and no, YOU, and so forth.


What the fuck ? Which kindergarten is this now ?? I mean, we're all grown-ups, we have our different POV's, and that's it. Tom surely has a way to point out what he thinks (or he did), but he never said "Hey, that's it, believe it, or you're an asshole".


To me, there's absulutely NO taboo, be it the "holocaust" or any other genocides. As long as people forget about the other genocides in Africa caused by the West (the ancient colonies and the results), which include Ruanda, Congo, Sudan, Somalia - all influenced by the hunger for resources mainly in favor for OUR well-being - all that stuff is hypocrisy.


Or.....the genocide on Armenians by the Turks. Today a NATO member.....


And when it is a crime to mention doubts of THE holocaust happenings of the past it shows me that there is a propaganda in the game which is simply afraid that some people might question history. Was it a fake ? No. But was it as we know ? I don't know, I wasn't there.


But then I ask:


Whoever accused the French that they caused all the problems in West Africa up to now ?


No one.


Whoever accused the UK or the US of supporting Hitler before WWII ? 


No one.


But everybody cries shame when it comes to THE !!!! on everyone who simply tries to give another reflection about the past and tries to shed a light on EVERYTHING that leads to such.


Why ? Because their world view could get cracks ?


I want to point out for the last time here that I'm not in favor of any genocide ;-) But I want to reserve my right to question no matter what happened or happens on that planet. If not, I might as well go back to the barn and play the sheep.


Bäääääh :-)


Mircea Negres Added Aug 7, 2017 - 10:07am
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 10:10am
BTW: To the ones who might count dead corpses and decide on that I'd say: It's not a matter of how many are killed in a genocide. Be that millions or thousands.
When it'd concern YOU, you'd probably understand.
It's not about statistics.
Dino Manalis Added Aug 7, 2017 - 10:33am
All genocides have to be recognized to be prevented from happening again in the future!
Leroy Added Aug 7, 2017 - 10:35am
Well said, Stoney. 
If you can't handle alternative opinions or don't want to hear them, then it is extremely simple: Stay away.  I disagree a lot with what Tom says.  I generally stay away from his NAZI and Holocaust articles.  I have seen enough to convince me of the veracity of the Holocaust.  I have weigh all sides.  But, Tom is right.  There was some good in Hitler and the German military.  It is not PC to say it, but there were admirable qualities.  If Tom is wrong, then educate him.  Name calling accomplishes nothing.
JJ Montagnier Added Aug 7, 2017 - 10:40am
100% in agreement, Stone! All atrocities should be acknowledged, not only some, selectively. 
Thomas Sutrina Added Aug 7, 2017 - 10:45am
Please tell me which European caused the Rwanda genocide of one tribe murdering another tribe with mostly clubs and machetes?  Now the machetes may have been built in Europe.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 10:52am
Thomas history. Sorry. Ask François Miterrand, or, better, the ones which are left.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 10:56am
BTW: It would take too long to start with that. It would start with what was called once "le Soudan Français". Or google Belgium and Leopold II concerning the Congo.
But it all goes back to colonialism. ALL of the Europeans have a hand in it, even the Germans in Namibia.
But that does not mean that the US has to feel obliged to try the same in the Middle East today.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 10:57am
History repeats itself and the blame is always the other.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 11:01am
That's what I mean. The one who accuses only one side is as ignorant as the one who doesn't know anything, if not, he wouldn't simply accuse.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 11:06am
I'm biased as anybody. But I darn know well enough after all those years what I'm talking about when it concerns Africa.
So - why should I hide ? Because I'm a white guy ? I'm born that way, and color has no meaning to me. What counts is the inner values, and also the capacity to reflect about our world. Not repeating -isms and slogans according to media Zeitgeist.
Leroy Added Aug 7, 2017 - 11:35am
Stoney, there has always been tribal warfare.  In that sense, it gives colonialism a good name. 
Tubularsock Added Aug 7, 2017 - 12:03pm
And so it will ever be ..........
As long as the concept of US vs. THEM is practiced this dilemma will never stop. The old "walk in the other person's shoes" would go a long way to help people understand each other.
Simple, but neglected. Usually out of "fear of other".
It seems it is easier to hate than to love but in truth, love is way easier!
But Tubularsock is a "egalitarian-hater"! Tubularsock hates everybody equally! Saves a lot of time.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 12:03pm
You mean some sort of extended tribalism. Could be.
George N Romey Added Aug 7, 2017 - 12:30pm
Yes I agree there was a holocaust and that Hitler was evil.  However, Tom has encouraged me to do research and that research shows the US was not this virtuous white knight that saved the world for freedom and justice.  Our businesses were supporting the Nazis into 1941.  The Russians were the ones that took the brunt of the losses against Germany and we sold them out with the nuking of Japan.  
We may have not been Hitler evil but we weren't as pure and innocent as the driven snow.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 12:33pm
But - let's not focus on that again ;.)
George N Romey Added Aug 7, 2017 - 12:38pm
I have a tendency not to want to argue with people that see things vastly different than me.  Tom has a right to express his view point and we often find common ground on certain topics.  Respecting someone's right to their view doesn't mean you have to agree with it. Some of these childish arguments on WB are out of control and I strong suspect that the site doesn't get the kind or writer support it needs because newbies of quality see the petty arguments and quickly leave.  
Over the past couple of years we've lost a number of fair, balanced and intelligent authors because they go tired of the "hit pieces."
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 12:46pm
I have a tendency not to want to argue with people that see things vastly different than me
That's the problem. If not, you keep staying with the nod-pack and are never forced to review your opinions and make amendments here and there which could seem logical ;-)
BTW: What is a "childish argument" ? One that does not comply to yours or one that is expressed in a childish manner ?
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 12:47pm
BTW: No insult. Just asking :-)
George N Romey Added Aug 7, 2017 - 1:00pm
SEF the difference is for example I am never going to agree with what most of Billy Roper says or believes.  I'm not going to change his mind.  I can say he is respectful and therefore I've never attacked him personally. Some battles aren't winnable and quickly turn into childish gibberish.  I've argued points with other people here mostly namely Bill Kamps and sometimes you.  I know we have more in agreement than disagreement and we will never see eye to eye.  Same thing with Tom and he has never attacked for my views.  I'd rather talk about common ground.  Then you have a few other than think discussion is attacking people but never offering up much option.  We have some of that here on WB.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 1:14pm
The thing is: When you only talk to people who think as you, you get no challenge, you just start to think that people are all on your side, because you don't pay attention to other views.
And that's the danger on the net. One chooses the ones who agree and repeat endlessly his own POV because he knows he will never be attacked and has a good time.
In real life you will find people who say: Fuck, I think....and then you might see points of agreement. But culture, media and bringing up plays a big part in it and kind of limits some people.
I agree that one should refrain from personal attacks, because a personal attack is a lack of arguments. That's what trolls do. 
Some people call me anti-American, which I'm not. If I were, I'd never set foot into the US and I'd never worked there.
The people who accuse me of that have simply not understood what I mean. Black - White thinking. Being against a system does not mean being against its people.
That's what I mean when I say White-Black thinking. The grey is much larger.
wsucram15 Added Aug 7, 2017 - 2:13pm

You are talking about shades of gray here...this is outside the box thinking and most people can go so far with that and they stop.  There are a couple of people that were on here that actually got few reads btw, were very outside the box, intelligent as hell, and very shades of gray.  Autumn always promotes them, few listen though.
We are all very bright, talented people and its something I give everyone on here credit for, but in my time on here I have seen two, maybe three writers that were brilliant in just writing.  All the writers on here have outstanding ideas and I have my preferences, no doubt.  However, when I have time, I read articles by even people I wont comment because you just never know what you might find. 
I dont care about even the topic. Its style and flow..something I learned and hated in college.  Most everything on here is creative and a very informal style. 
The problem on here is that the comments are sometimes personal and often not related to the writing...which is what the site is about. Im not just talking about me now.  It has driven some really good writers away due to just too much hassle for having a different opinion.
Isnt that what this article is about?  The shades of Gray?  In my mind..on this site fit in or with some or you get harassed off the site.  Ive watched it happen and to be fair it was on both sides a couple of times.  So you cant blame one person.
 There are two other people that have been on here as long as I..Expat and SEF, (maybe Wiliam-not sure) and we have seen them come and go, its not fair to just treat people like shit because you dont like how they think.  I dont like how some of you think, some I will discuss it with and some I just dont comment but bear no ill will towards, I dont know you.  But....
This is an open site for various ideas, and its a decent site you do not pay for. Enjoy it.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 2:43pm
You know me, I'm sure. The only thing is that I'm probably the only non-anglophone person here that lasted so long and there might be some misunderstandings here or there. But all in all:
I'm all for tolerance and reflection - and against insults.
That's also why I defend Tom. Not because his "white preference" (how could I ??) but because he tried to make his point.
And I excuse a short fuse when it doesn't last. We're all emotional, even primitive at times when our feelings get hurt or our world belief is questioned to the point that it requires re-thinking....
But Tom never expressed HATE as I've seen some others here. I mean: I've been here very long, and MB attacked me the worst possible. But no one reacted.
So what's the fuss about Tom ? Is it only the word holocaust ?
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 2:51pm
BTW: We get off the subject somehow. I didn't want to get back to this - my fault I reacted.
I'm only human, you see ;-)
wsucram15 Added Aug 7, 2017 - 3:17pm
No SEF..he attacked Sara over her anorexia, after Roper insulted the hell out of her returning something similar to the pig comment she made and I asked the two of them to stop due to her not wanting to eat.
He specifically went after her mental state...everything, which it is a societal problem, it almost killed her once.
I cant tolerate a weak man like that...Im sorry, he interjected into a dispute that didnt involve him, wasnt about him and took it much farther than it needed to go.  Weak men hurt women, since some of you on here, like to shout about white privilege and testosterone. 
SO Anyone on here needs to take a step back about TOM with me, the only other person I dont care for on here is Roper, but I just dont comment him and he is respectful to do the same.
Sorry.that really pissed me off..beyond words.  If we had been in the same state holy shit.  I was pissed. Dont ever screw with a womans kids, at least not mine.
Im done with this conversation. Sorry SEF..Gotta go..
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 3:28pm
I don't know how I would have reacted, frankly, but you see, I'm not focusing on that shit but on issues, if not I've had mentioned how MB wished death to me and my family and all that. I was also honored by an article by him.
And that keeps on until today in comments now and then.
I keep delusional rants and subjects to discuss apart. If not, I've had quit long ago.
There are blogs which are full of rants and hate by people who foster their non-existant ego with such shit.
We're too old to get impressed, no ? LOL
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 3:44pm
Let's get back to the subject. I really don't want to open up another Tom thread here. It was just the thing to get into the subject:
WHY is it forbidden to doubt the holocaust and at the same time all the holocausts happening since are business as usual ?
Jeff Michka Added Aug 7, 2017 - 3:44pm
Tubularsock wisely sez: But Tubularsock is a "egalitarian-hater"! Tubularsock hates everybody equally! Saves a lot of time. - Yeah!
Ric Wells Added Aug 7, 2017 - 3:47pm
Stone two comments. This is a kindergarten when it comes to certain topics. And two "We're all adults". No We're not . Myself included at times. Sometimes emotions run high and logic goes out the window. Just my opinion.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 3:51pm
Sometimes emotions run high and logic goes out the window. Just my opinion.
How right you are on that. Except me, of course. I'm a ..... example or ....erm ....objectiveness.....cough...just like: I have my mistakes, but others have more LOL
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 3:52pm
BTW: Tube has it right. And Dino. Never get personal. So you never get stamped !
Ric Wells Added Aug 7, 2017 - 3:52pm
Who the hell is Jeff.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 3:55pm
BTW2: As I said to Leroy. When we'd have a beer together (referring to all the rants between people here) I'm sure that we'd all AT LEAST would try to get along.
Keyboard is not live :-)
Thomas Sutrina Added Aug 7, 2017 - 3:57pm
Your answer does not pass the smell test.  Rwanda genocide was caused by François Maurice who was President of France from 1981 to 1995.  Wikipedia does not mention France much less Maurice, " Germany colonised Rwanda in 1884 as part of German East Africa, followed by Belgium, which invaded in 1916 during the First World War. Both European nations ruled through the kings and perpetuated a pro-Tutsi policy. The Hutu population revolted in 1959. They massacred numerous Tutsi and ultimately established an independent, Hutu-dominated state in 1962. The Tutsi-led Rwandan Patriotic Front launched a civil war in 1990. Social tensions erupted in the  1994 Genocide . . . a UN Trust Territory after the Second World War, with a mandate to oversee eventual independence."  I am sure the Hutu and Tutsi were rivals for centuries long before they saw a white mans.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 4:03pm
Who the hell is Jeff.
See's your song going ? We just had a little break here from another topic I intended in the article but that's ok. It's worn-out anyway.
How's it going over there ? :-) I'll call your brother soon for a Jam session. That really made me happy !
Ric Wells Added Aug 7, 2017 - 4:08pm
Songs going well. Also writing another book. Its turning into an old west soap opera. About 100 pages in so far. Have a cast of approximately 8 to 10 characters. Writing a scene at a time. Took a break to briefly see what's on WB. Listening to a concert by one of your favorite bands LOL while I write. Pink Floyd Pulse concert. 
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 4:21pm
Oh sure. Pink Floyd. Puts me to sleep :-) Tell me when the book's done, gotta read it :-)
BTW: Didn't miss much. Actually I'm still too engaged here. As long as I'm in Switzerland I guess it will stay that way....but in 2018 I'm definitively gone. We're progressing a lot :-)
Ric Wells Added Aug 7, 2017 - 4:31pm
A long strange trip this one is. A lot of tongue in cheek and innuendo.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 4:41pm
I hope I get it with my limited English. But I'm sure there's a lot of between-the-lines. I'll try. Pity you have never met a dear friend of mine from Aussie whom I've met here on WB and who has visited me for a week here in Switzerland. His motto was "read-listen", then talk. A very wise guy and an authority who originates from Pakistan.
George N Romey Added Aug 7, 2017 - 5:09pm
Here's the thing for me I really don't want to debate something that happened more than 70 years ago.  As horrible as it was I'd rather focus on the here and now.  I'm not also here to totally change minds. As long as you respect me I'll respect you even if I think your views are totally out of whack.  
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 6:11pm
Here's the thing for me I really don't want to debate something that happened more than 70 years ago
My words....
Leroy Added Aug 7, 2017 - 6:26pm
Anyway, I expect sparks to start flying soon.  Let's sit back and enjoy the fireworks.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 6:28pm
Just closed my Facebook account and my 2 pages there. I'm gradually preparing my leave of the digital world. I'm still on LI, though.....for a while, until 2018.
But I'll stay here and will use email, but NOT google. Do you know that Google has started to filter YOUR emails now in the US ? Will start soon in Europe.
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Aug 7, 2017 - 6:59pm
I use Gmail but not for anything private. Which is why I find it humorous all the ridiculous "security" protocols they use. What good is security if there is no privacy? Also keep in mind that Google is now censoring search results, you may as well crack open the governments corporate mainstream media outlets if you search Google for information. 
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 7:08pm
Thanks - it just came to Europe now. I wonder if Tor or DuckDuck help out. I don't think so. But we know what we have to, right ? ;-)
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 7:12pm
LOL John is right. And that was not François Mitterand who started it, it was simply to keep the status quo the French had and still have in West Africa - I know - that's my business area.
But keep in mind that France is in NATO so who's got the say ? You see. That was the plan with Ukraine. Get them into the EU and thru the back door into NATO - another border to Russia.
It's so obvious when someone cares to look at a world map from time to time....
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2017 - 7:19pm
WE'LL get the sparks, not you. But maybe this time there will be an appropriate reply from someone which will make 9/11 look like a happy day LOL
I don't wish it to anybody, but how can these irrational warmongers be stopped when the US population seems to have no clue or interest ? I weep for 69 Vietnam.
Back then the people had guts.
Thomas Sutrina Added Aug 7, 2017 - 7:37pm
I am using Wikipedia John G. "François Maurice who was target="_blank">target="_blank">President of France from 1981 to 1995.
What the F drugs are you on?" 
You are getting your information from a Ouija board?
Thomas Sutrina Added Aug 7, 2017 - 7:43pm
Stone who and why it started is important, and why no one stopped it is also important.  It was not just the responsibility of the French.  Bill Clinton has taken some responsibility and so has the UN.  The news article I took those word of Bill C. from state the failure of the international community and America as a leader.  France was not even mentioned.  Bill Clinton did not consider them a big player.
Thomas Sutrina Added Aug 7, 2017 - 7:53pm
I think the basic facts can not be covered up John G.  Dead people.
George N Romey Added Aug 7, 2017 - 8:35pm
There are a few on this site that give the impression they are intellectually and morally superior to anyone else on this site.  It reminds me of a quote from Sammy Davis Jr. to Archie Bunker, "I've met many people in my life and I can honestly say you are no better than any of them" (or something to that effect.)
Besides if I really thought I was much smarter than anyone here I'd like to think I'd have enough common sense to find a site in which the contributors were more on my level.  
EXPAT Added Aug 7, 2017 - 8:42pm
Stone just keeps repeating the same old mantra. When he is presented with evidence that doesn't fit his world view, he just ignores it for a week or two, and then repeats the same o-same o.
I said I was finished with this, but you just won't let it go. You are not the grown up on here!
This will be my last response to your childish "stop picking on my brother Tommy" post.
I put it behind me, so should you. I once said you were a Nazi sypothizer. There is no need to keep proving it!
From the childish post he feels he is above:

Tom C. Purcell Added Aug 7, 2017 - 6:57pm


You have deleted every incriminating fact we've posted.  I'm inclined to invite the females from WB to post in an article, some of the sexual harassment you're guilty of on this site.  When Leroy and I point out the evidence, you just delete it.  You are begging for an expose on the 'Perversity of Charles Gully a.k.a. Expat'

Tom C. Purcell Added Aug 7, 2017 - 7:01pm


I witnessed harassment of Janie, directly and shamefully, from Expat a.k.a. Charles Gully.  You can run but you can't hide, pervert.  If you're going to mess with a bull, expect to be gored. 

Leroy Added Aug 7, 2017 - 7:10pm


No one should assuming anonymity here, not me, not you, not Little Ella.  When "Marilyn" and Tony exposed Cynthia, I showed her how quickly she could be exposed.  I know you, Expat, went uncover at that point, and, quite honestly, it is the best policy for everyone.  Marilyn and Tony did their best to get Cynthia fired simply because they were bested in an argument (and some personal feminine jealousy).  Then, we had that wacko north of the border who couldn't find Poland on a map reporting people to the FBI.  The wacko even threatened me for disagreeing with him.  He went undercover as well.  No one has to steal anything, Expat.  It's out in the open for anyone to see.

EXPAT Added Aug 7, 2017 - 7:18pm


Stone. I let this threat by little Tommy stay, just so you can see what a vile piece of garbage he truly is.
This is not opinion, this is not factual, this is pure hate! He wants to destroy me personally! He cannot tell reality from media. Kinda like a guy who smashes his TV because of a bad call by a Ref on his team.
He is truly demented, and would destroy me as if I were a JEW!
Jeanne posted comments of the vile assault by you and Billy on her and her daughter!
Little Tommy.I know you are not a man of your word, and will not leave. So I look forward to ignoring anything you post on WB in the months to come.
EXPAT Added Aug 7, 2017 - 8:48pm
Does this sound like a man who intends to do what he said, LEAVE? Mental illness is a sad thing. Purcell the coward is now threatening me and Writer Beat. You are a disgrace Stone, for perpetuating what you say is kindergarten behavior!

Tom C. Purcell Added Aug 7, 2017 - 7:20pm


Well it's your choice, Charlie.  You either delete this shit or you've just made it very ugly for WriterBeat and yourself.   I know too well that you can't ignore me.  I mean, you write about me.  You probably dream about me, because I know what you are.
EXPAT Added Aug 7, 2017 - 9:03pm
P.S. The fact that you wish to perpetuate this shit, and continue what you call "Which kindergarten is this now ?? I mean, we're all grown-ups, "
Proves that you really enjoy this. The 6 people who like it are just as childish as you are!
Be careful, or Little Tommy will be threatening you next!
wsucram15 Added Aug 8, 2017 - 12:18am
Please listen to me, what happened was wrong. Perhaps things said to you were wrong.  But this has to stop and I am asking you to please take down just Toms picture on your post. He is not going to apologize to either of us.  Do you understand that?
 This has got to stop. Just because he said what he did does not mean he is a nazi.. or whatever.   And EVERYONE..hassles Janie.  Come on..
He is just like most people on here, just different pov or boiling points. When everyone understands that most people are about the same, we will all get along better when we just stop provoking each other. 
PS SEF..Google, Microsoft, and all their pals, have to filter content on emails.  There are entire divisions set up for this and they all communicate.  I dont get it, but privacy is gone.  You literally have to be OFF the net, away from a cellular device with no public utilities to have some sense of privacy.
EXPAT Added Aug 8, 2017 - 12:28am
I can't take any down.  My article has disappeared! If it was Autumn, I am out of here! If it was Nazi hacking, I will re post. The picture is what Tom has posted.
Ric Wells Added Aug 8, 2017 - 12:34am
Coulda swore there is a policy against personal attacks on this site. But what constitutes a personal attack and who determines it.
EXPAT Added Aug 8, 2017 - 12:47am
In case you didn't read, he is working with Billy to post on the Nazi home site.
Ric Wells Added Aug 8, 2017 - 12:52am
Frankly Expat I really don't care what either Tom or Billy do. Me paying any attention to their drivel is a total waste of my energy and I'm sure they feel the same about me. To quoteHone With the Wind. "Frankly Scarlet."
Ric Wells Added Aug 8, 2017 - 12:52am
That's Gone not Hone.
wsucram15 Added Aug 8, 2017 - 12:53am
No wasnt Autumn.  Im telling you it was your picture of Tom on your article. The ISP removed it, Autumn has nothing to do with this.  I told you to take it not post a picture that is of someone else or taken by another photographer w/o permission.
They do this for legal reasons, intellectual property and stuff like that.
This is a writing site, not a class for kids. There really are rules for this stuff, even if Autumn does not want a sheriff in town.
Ric ..there might be personal rules, but I dont know of anything other than what I just listed and some things I have not mentioned yet. But thats for the ISP and not site management.
Ric Wells Added Aug 8, 2017 - 12:54am
Jeanne its right on the policies of this site. No personal attacks.
EXPAT Added Aug 8, 2017 - 1:11am
Ric. You missed the part about hateful and offensive language. You are very selective on what rule to enforce. Taking statements out of context, should also be a rule.
EXPAT Added Aug 8, 2017 - 1:17am
Jeanne. I remember when you had  your photo removed from Jeffry Gilberts
article. But Autumn just clarified that my article remains, photo and all.
I hope you and Stone let this issue die. I never realized how many Nazi sympathizers there were on WB.
Maybe Little Tommy should stay to keep you and Stone happy!
EXPAT Added Aug 8, 2017 - 1:27am
This article will remain long after my Purcell the coward article slips into the WB black hole.
Strange behavior for people who want something to end. Kind of like taking a deep breath of a FART in a lift.
Oh, isn't that smell awful, (Deep Breath) yhea, how long will it stay. (Take another breath) it seems to be getting weaker. (another deep breath) yeah I agree, this fart must go, (Heavy inhale) yeah, I hate this smell. Somebody please open the door.
You all love this shit, but feign contempt, like a preacher in a porno movie! 
EXPAT Added Aug 8, 2017 - 1:30am
While I am in a sarcastic mood:
Stone, who is your wife? The pretty Black lady or the Sheep?
wsucram15 Added Aug 8, 2017 - 2:44am
If he owns that photo, you cannot post it. Autumn can say whatever she likes, she didnt take my picture down the ISP did or maybe they directed her to..IDK.  I was able to prove my photo was my property.  On that issue I dont care what Autumn says..she def didnt help me. do realize that Autumn is a bit Voyeuristic right? You have even told me she picks and chooses her favs. Right now you are because its drama.  But Tom was a fav until he made some demands and decided to it is what it is Expat.
You are just going to far..and I do not sympathize with Nazis, white supremacists or any of the ilk. Alright?
wsucram15 Added Aug 8, 2017 - 2:46am
SEF..thanks for the great try though...Im done with this....ttyl
Stone-Eater Added Aug 8, 2017 - 4:17am
OK, let's quit that shit. Doesn't lead anywhere, I'm afraid. The positions are too hardened.
opher goodwin Added Aug 8, 2017 - 4:38am
SEF - far too many genocides and atrocities all over the world - black on black, brown on black, brown on brown, white on black, white on brown and white on white. Colour is immaterial.
Every race has its list of its own atrocities. None are exempt.
Looking at slavery - it was a mishmash of races. Black tribes raided black tribes and sold slaves to Arab traders who sold them on to the white traders. Nobody comes out smelling of roses.
The Holocaust was real and terrible and only one, albeit huge, in a long line of genocidal atrocities.
Tom was completely wrong to deny it but right to point out that it was just one in a long line. I stand for the right of people to say and debate what they think.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 8, 2017 - 4:47am
Exactly. What more is there to say ? What I want is that people pay more attention to other genocides and don't let that old shit overshadow eternally everything else.
I guess some people are more worth than others....
Thomas Sutrina Added Aug 8, 2017 - 8:40am
Still getting your information from a Ouija board John G..  
The thing of it is Stone:
Airplane crash in 1994 carrying the presidents of Rwanda and Burundi.   Some say it was shot down but not proven to my knowledge.
Hutu rebels surrounded the capital and took over the streets of Kigali.
Hutu men without a white man involved picked up a machete or club, joined a MOB, Directed by radio to where the Tutsi were
when to the home of a black family from the minority (but the governing tribe during colonial days) Tutsi
 estimated that between 250,000 and 500,000 women were raped
Hutu government, the UN there for the Civil war that was brewing, and President Bill Clinton as policemen for the world did nothing for the next 100 day, 7 April – 15 July 1994, resulting the murder of mostly unarmed women, children, and men estimated 500,000–1,000,000 about 70% of the Tutsi's in the Rwanda.
To deal with the thousands of accused and to foster reconciliation, the traditional community court system known as “Gacaca” was used, leading to over 1.2 million cases being tried. The ICTR has also determined that the widespread rapes committed during the Rwandan genocide may also be considered an act of torture and genocide on their own. The ICTR closed at the end of 2014.
Thomas Sutrina Added Aug 8, 2017 - 8:46am
Stone you started with these words, "genocides in Africa caused by the West (the ancient colonies and the results), which include Ruanda, Congo, Sudan, Somalia."  Where were the Whites from the West in Rwanda?
opher goodwin Added Aug 8, 2017 - 1:35pm
SEF - all equal in my eyes.
opher goodwin Added Aug 8, 2017 - 1:37pm
John - I'm not sure that's true. Rwanda, Cambodia, Burma, Congo, Nigeria.
But who's counting? Wrong is wrong. Atrocity is atrocity. Down the ages it has been the same. Humans are vicious and cruel. What we are currently doing to the wildlife on this planet is the biggest genocide of all.
opher goodwin Added Aug 8, 2017 - 1:39pm
Thomas - all that is true. The UN should have done a lot more.
Leroy Added Aug 8, 2017 - 1:43pm
"What we are currently doing to the wildlife on this planet is the biggest genocide of all. "
That statement doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  Do you mean slaughter?
wsucram15 Added Aug 8, 2017 - 1:55pm
SEF..people are all the same. I stand by that statement.  Its when human beings, treat others as "less than" or different that problems happen.  The US is very guilty of that as are other nations, yours included.
SEF and Thomas- This involved more than the US. The US  just watched Rwanda which was the horror of the situation, Clinton, French President and Kofi Annan  promised protection from genocidal governments and stop the pending plans of which they were aware.  It never happened.   In addition I believe we trained the Tutsis (sp?)  and the French armed them for a time after this started.  The UN knew and stopped nothing.   The fact that this went on for months and we dont tolerate humanitarian mistreatment, says a lot about the CLinton Presidency.   He was good domestically but questionable international leader.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 8, 2017 - 1:57pm
I know all that. But without the French having favorized the Tutsis since colonial times this would never have happened. The source and history explain the present.
opher goodwin Added Aug 8, 2017 - 2:09pm
I see the extinction of so many species and the wholesale slaughter as a genocide Leroy.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 8, 2017 - 2:29pm
We Whites have a tendency to see other "colours" or cultures to be worth less, I know that better than a lot of people I guess.
Although since I can't read Chinese and have never been there, and in India I had not much contact with locals, and I've missed South America altogether (I'm not really into Spanish ;-) I can't say how they judge us as a "race".
But if I look at our behavior and politics I can imagine quite a bit....
opher goodwin Added Aug 8, 2017 - 2:33pm
SEF - it was sobering to me to do a big trip around the world and see magnificent colonial buildings left to rot. I think they saw them as symbols of oppression.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 8, 2017 - 2:46pm
I see a difference here. In Cameroon, where the Germans had a short-time colony until WWI, they are still seen as people who are able to set up stuff that lasts - quality. And they don't regard Hitler as he is seen here (and countries in Asia as well, I've seen Photos of "Hitler's Snack" !!). Buildings built by the Germans still stand, while French stuff crumbled long ago (seen in Kribi for example). But Cameroon is not Namibia....
It's funny how people differ in their views of a same event when they grow up in different cultures. But let me tell you that the German colonists are seen in a much better light. The English is a so-so, and the French are outright hated by a majority.
Of course there's exceptions, for example in Namibia where the Germans also committed a genocide among the population.
But at least they are aware of it and try to pay reparations. France doesn't even talk about it (Senegal, Algeria, Mali etc.)
Stone-Eater Added Aug 8, 2017 - 2:58pm
The reason why the English are seen in a better light is because the UK had let the populations keep their local customs, they had a "loose" grip on them, while the French centralized everything and even rewrote the school books (in places where that existed) in favor of them, and they "francophoned" the population to the fll extent.
When I look at school books from Senegal to Cameroon, they all have images of "Western behavior" in them, and the protagonists in those drawings are "brown" at best. They draw European suburb images for the kids which live in slums....
...and in schools net printouts are now allowed, only "state approved" material as described above, which many families can't afford. No books, no school. That's reality I see until today.
When I was last in Cameroon, two of my kids told me "Papa, we need new books." I said, well, we got the net here now, I save and print what you need in a Cyber cafe tomorrow. He said: Not allowed. I said huh ? and went to see the director of the school the next day. He simply said: Monsieur, I know the problem. But we teachers can't do anything about it.
Maybe Bill Gates isn't too serious about what he does. He'd have enough cash to influence the regime. But maybe he doesn't know that Cameroon knows no copyright and I wonder who pays for any Windows version LOL
Stone-Eater Added Aug 8, 2017 - 2:59pm
NOT allowed I mean. Grrr...
wsucram15 Added Aug 8, 2017 - 3:14pm
SEF..I just dont though, human beings are all the same. I run into that quite a bit because I am white in a majority black city.  It is very uncomfortable at times, especially now.
I used to work with a guy his name was Gary, because of our business he had been all over the world and he explained the world views of the US to me.  Eventually I began to deal with companies for various reasons in other countries and talked to the people on the other end.  It is interesting the view that people have of the US and also the prejudices.  Now that is from specific people but I can only assume this is what they read or see around them.
I just wasnt sure of how I wanted to handle the data back then, since that time, I have learned so much more. It caused me at one point to want to leave here. In fact, if I can when I completely retire I may still do so.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 8, 2017 - 3:43pm
I understand. The problem is always prejudice. Sometimes when I go places, people tell me: "Are you also one of the Swiss who whitewash money because you can afford to come here ? Or is it because Switzerland prints all the money of the world ?"
wsucram15 Added Aug 8, 2017 - 4:54pm
I know SEF..I know.  I hear it in Baltimore often if I march here. there is a large protest going on here now, against shootings. I was supporting it (like most things lately) by phone, twitter and email due to my foot. I just caught some grief for not coming out.. "like are you afraid".  Stuff like that. 
Stone-Eater Added Aug 8, 2017 - 5:01pm
It was the French at first. You know, lost empire, just like the UK. But of course all that happens when Europe is involved is in fact a NATO thing and has to be approved by the US.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 8, 2017 - 5:09pm
I admire your persistence in standing up, I guess women are more sensitive in general.....because they give life.
Admittedly, I don't do anything for Switzerland. Why ? Because we don't need it. We can help ourselves using our brains. The instruments and infrastruture are here.
A lot of people in other countries can't - despite their brains.....and then people tell me: What kind of Swiss are you ? Is Africa our problem ? You could do something here !
25 years ago, when I started, I could somewhat understand their point. Now, with all the economic refugees from Africa we get here they fucking swallow their ignorant responses !
opher goodwin Added Aug 8, 2017 - 6:22pm
SEF - that is strange - I was looking at the Spanish and Portuguese in South America and the British in Indonesia, Singapore etc. Some of the British stuff was still maintained but the Spanish and Portuguese stuff was decayed.
opher goodwin Added Aug 8, 2017 - 6:24pm
SEF - I'd Grrrr too.
Cultural stuff is very important. I'm glad the British recognised that. It's a matter of respect.
Ric Wells Added Aug 8, 2017 - 6:27pm
You know ever since humans could pick up a stick or rock and bash somebody's head in firms of genocide have been taking place by all ethnicities. So to point out who did what to whom reminds me of the Abbot and Costello routine "Who's on First." My question to the human race is. How's that working out for ya?
Stone-Eater Added Aug 8, 2017 - 7:08pm
Right on. I imagine you sitting on a mountain top at sunset, scratching your head and thinking why the hell do we waste our intelligence for a dead-end street ?
Stone-Eater Added Aug 8, 2017 - 7:13pm
I like the Brits. They're friendly. and they see no difference in having a queen, an Anglican Church and Monty Python at the same time. To me, they're so controversional and refreshing because they LIVE with that and when they're told that don't match they just say:
So what ? LOL
Stone-Eater Added Aug 8, 2017 - 7:16pm
...and British humour is the best there is. They perfected sarcasm and irony :-)
Stone-Eater Added Aug 8, 2017 - 7:22pm
BTW: No one wants a genocide anywhere. It's NOT the people who start that. It's propaganda and psychologic warfare that gets people to hate others which they in fact don't know anything about them.
Make America great again !
We're the chosen people !
Kraft durch Freude !
Vive la nation Française ! Egalité, Fraternité !
Up my ass. mate.
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 8, 2017 - 7:36pm
Where I come from they have on old saying, some of you may have heard this.
When you get down in the mud to wrestle with a pig at some point you must realize that win or lose the pig is enjoying it.
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 8, 2017 - 7:38pm
Ganz klar, ich denke. Ja?
Stone-Eater Added Aug 8, 2017 - 7:48pm
Sorry, can't quite get that. Language barrier.
Was heisst das ? Zwischen-den-Zeilen stuff LOL
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 8, 2017 - 7:55pm
Ja, man sagt so. Sicherlich gibt es ein aehnliches sprichwort auf Deutsch?
Stone-Eater Added Aug 8, 2017 - 8:16pm
Keine Ahnung, sorry.
It sounds like: Whatever you try earnestly the other just laughs at you and makes fun about you trying to be serious...
Ich gebe auf :-)
opher goodwin Added Aug 9, 2017 - 3:49am
Ric - yes - but it is important to recognise the wrongs being done and the wrongs that have been done so that we can get it right in the future. My mum used to say 'two wrongs don't make a right'.
opher goodwin Added Aug 9, 2017 - 3:50am
British humour - well who am I to judge? I just love humour. Monty Python, the Goons - great stuff.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 9, 2017 - 11:38am
Me too !
wsucram15 Added Aug 9, 2017 - 10:00pm
When you get down in the mud to wrestle with a pig at some point you must realize that win or lose the pig is enjoying it.
TBH- love this..I sincerely do, but you have to know that there are times, pig or not, you have to roll in the mud for your kids.  I am easy to get along with aside from my two little gems.
Now I have grandkids..go figure. 
Jeff Michka Added Aug 13, 2017 - 4:27pm
EXPAT sez: google Belgium and Leopold II concerning the Congo.-Or for another perspective, read "The Heart of Darkness" by Conrad, and in reading it, read perhaps the best written short story in history.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 13, 2017 - 5:56pm
Belgium and Leopold II concerning the Congo
Very sad story. Look at Belgium today. They're the "third world of Europe". I've been there just lately.
Bill H. Added Aug 13, 2017 - 11:01pm
Back in the mid '60s to at least the early '80s, race relations in the US seemed to me to be doing quite well in most areas. We were at a point where we could joke about past race issues and laugh it off. I know you hear this often from me, but it seems as though separation of the races or the retention of cultural differences is actually a profitable mode for businesses and therefore it is in there best interest to keep up the divide in the name of profit.
I know for a fact this is the case in the broadcasting industry and the clothing and apparel industries. Again, corporate control at it's best.
Any thoughts?
Stone-Eater Added Aug 14, 2017 - 5:58am
the retention of cultural differences is actually a profitable mode for businesses 
I'm not sure. When all the stuff goes unisex and uniculture, it can become trendy and be sold from Reykjavik to Peking. Like Hip Hop "culture", brand clothes or junk food.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 15, 2017 - 7:18pm
Bill H sez: I know for a fact this is the case in the broadcasting industry-Can you flesh this out a bit more?  Writing about broadcasting and FCC at the moment.
opher goodwin Added Aug 20, 2017 - 6:14pm
Bill H - I certainly thought we were getting over all the racist stuff in Britain. The kids in my school were well into equality.