Walk Away

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WB has again become a source of vitriol and ugliness.  Comments and some articles are childish and juvenile to say the least.  And I'm guilty of it too.

 

Here's the thing.  Some people are never going to agree with you.  And you might even be right.  So why go down that road.  It just turns into a theater of the absurd.   Sometimes just ignore the article and the comments and walk away.  We have some very good writers here with excellent points of view that will discuss and debate in a respectful manner.  Forget the lunacy of fighting with someone you don't know, never met and will never agree with.

 

Autumn says she has issues attracting new writers.  If they read some of the articles and comments on WB do you think they'd actually have any interest?  Yes they would if they were nothing more than Internet trolls wanting to make curt and obnoxious statements.  If you consider yourself someone of intellectual capacity and understanding why would you ever engage the troll?

 

Some people need constant attention and like to get it in a negative way. Ignore them and they go away.  They can't be reasoned with, so why would you try?

 

This is an open forum.  Everyone is allowed to post their opinion.  However, that doesn't always mean your opinion is always needed.  Walk away and keep the karma.   Find people that will be respectful. Respectful enough not to engage in serial tit for tat.  No one is forcing you to read their article. 

Comments

john guzlowski Added Aug 8, 2017 - 8:58pm
Yes.  
 
Theres no no point in arguing with people who don't want to dialogue.  Those people just want to express there own views over and over.  They don't want to know what you think.  
 
And as I've seen here and elsewhere, if you do try to discuss something with them, they get ugly.
 
Better to just automatically delete the notes from Autumn that tell you they are commenting.
Infidel753 Added Aug 8, 2017 - 9:24pm
Well, I'm glad to hear it's apparently not like this all the time.
 
Obviously you're right about the name-calling and nastiness in some threads repelling potential readers (although I think the prominent attention lately given to the presence of a Holocaust denier here would be an even bigger turn-off).  The real problem is that for some people it's their natural pattern of behavior.
 
I don't like conflict.  I've done my share of arguing over the years and I'm burnt out on it.  If I sense I'm about to get drawn into a conflict, my instinct is to disengage.  But some people are just drawn to fighting by nature.  They seek out people they can argue with and they find a fight exhilarating.  It's just the way they are.
 
I don't know what can be done about this.  Over the years I've noticed that forums which keep moderation to the minimum tend to become dominated by extremists and crazies and ugly, even obscene rhetoric.  Once this happens, it's very hard to reverse, because attracting and keeping posters who don't share that tendency becomes impossible.  They quickly leave because of the ugliness they see.  This site isn't yet at that point, but the problem bears close watching.
Katharine Otto Added Aug 8, 2017 - 9:44pm
George,
I'm okay with the provocateurs and actually like the variety.  Yes, they are childish, especially when they get into the personal insults.  I figure they will grow up, eventually, as more mature minds prevail.
 
I don't like arguing, especially when people say the same things over and over.  However, I've found that some people argue in order to hear more, and the dialogue can get deeper if I approach their disagreements in a reasonable way.  
 
I tend to overlook the insults and focus on points that make sense.  And, I'm guilty of writing long comments but not reading others' very carefully, so I'll stop here.
 
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 8, 2017 - 9:57pm
However, I've found that some people argue in order to hear more, and the dialogue can get deeper if I approach their disagreements in a reasonable way.  
 
Great point, Kathrine!
I think that after some clash of personality type, the grind gets sparky, but, personal insults are part of every room.
Christian? Go see the arguments about water to wine.
Athiest? Go see how their insults fly. 
It is part of the package.
Even the conspiracy sites, that go beyond Saturn,Have some insults waiting for you on one or two of their rings.
Nice guy? Learn self defense.
Shrug it off, like Stone eater days, just shrug it off.
 
Mircea Negres Added Aug 9, 2017 - 1:27am
George, I agree. Still, John G gets under my skin once in a while. If anybody ought to go, it's him/her/it.
John G Added Aug 9, 2017 - 1:58am
If you want an echo chamber, fine. If you want to expand your mind on the other hand .......
EXPAT Added Aug 9, 2017 - 2:45am
Come on George. Get a stiff upper. If you don't like an article, don't read it. If you don't like a comment to your article, delete it!  If you think somebody needs to be exposed for malfeasance, write an article about them.
It is done constantly on WB
You'll never get a Wild West Bumper sticker being a wimp!
EXPAT Added Aug 9, 2017 - 2:51am
P.S. I left for the reasons you state, but I found the same conditions and worse on other open sites. The only sites that maintain a high standard, only accept their ideology.
Perhaps you should start your own site, and set your own standard.
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 9, 2017 - 6:13am
Good advice George. There are some people I will just ignore. I dont delete comments from my posts. If it is not worthy of acknowledgement then I simply dont dignify it with a response.
When I encounter a piece which I find patently absurd I must admit that I will sometimes post a comment that says so. I dont resort to personal attacks because I dont need to. Generally I will simply say nothing and ignore future posts from that author.
 
If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
 
George Orwell
opher goodwin Added Aug 9, 2017 - 6:48am
Debate is good. That's why we write here. It is good to have debate around issues. Sometimes it is pointless talking because we are all entrenched in our views. But it is good to hear what people have to say.
Respect is the key. We might not agree but we can still be respectful of people who think differently (with some exceptions - promotion of violence or abuse). I think that having a platform to air views is healthy. Even obnoxious views need exposing to the light of day so that they can be intelligently dealt with. Without intelligence and respect you can't have debate.
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 9, 2017 - 7:10am
Opher -
 
You are nothing if not respectful. Horribly, dreadfully, hopelessly misguided and wrong, but respectful nonetheless ;)
 
 
Stephen Hunter Added Aug 9, 2017 - 7:57am
The negative mud slinging comments are usually from  'emotional brain' driven reactions, because someone has upset their "tribal think" view of the world. 
George N Romey Added Aug 9, 2017 - 8:32am
I'm talking about when the conversation turns to insults and threats along with outrageous statements.  The conversation ceases to resemble anything to do with the original argument.  Ultimately who cares what someone thinks about you on WB? 
 
Also even very opposing views can help shape your thinking.  I have no support of Hitler/Nazis and fully believe in the Holocaust. However, I've come to realize that the US is no better than Hitler when it comes to violence and the killing of innocent people. Just look at our the Iraq War.  Millions of Iraqis killed and for what?  Or Syria, Yemen, Libya.  Is the US any better than Hitler Germany?
Stephen Hunter Added Aug 9, 2017 - 8:47am
Unfortunately George you are correct, when the blanket gets pulled back there are a lot of dirty little secrets, which the US and other 'modern democratic' countries would rather that people remain ignorant about.
No country, no religion, no group or no person are totally good or evil. If people could get that through their heads, the emotional crap would diminish, and more intellectual dialogue would exist. 
john guzlowski Added Aug 9, 2017 - 9:13am
I've been in social media since about 1995. 
 
I've never encountered as much ugly talk as I have here.  I asked Autumn Cote if she could control it.  
 
She basically said that she liked to see it. It brought readers to the site.
 
 
Dave Volek Added Aug 9, 2017 - 10:28am
I've been here off and on for about three years. Yes, there is also some nasty comments---which are not going to change the world in any positive way. But there are also some good thinkers who can portray their insights with tactfulness, intellect, and logic. While I may not agree with these contributors, I haven't found that kind of discussion much on other discussion groups. So WB has been my choice of where to "pontificate" and see what happens.
 
Jeff Jackson Added Aug 9, 2017 - 10:43am
There are some very smart people on WB. There are also some childish, ill-informed, vulgar, insult-throwing whack-jobs, who wouldn't know the truth if it came at them traveling 1500 feet per second and went straight through their heart, or their brain. Fair enough to offer them a forum for their outlandish views and positions. After all, no one said this was an academic journal. There are plenty of writers here that wouldn't make it past the first midterm. Free speech and the free exchange of ideas is one of the blessings of our democracy. To be honest, there are some that I will not bother reading, because I already know what they are going to say. Still, it is a nice forum, even with the trolls, although I think some of the name-callers should be removed, as they are, in my opinion, hurting the website just as John Guzlowski says.
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 9, 2017 - 11:44am
Jeff touts that:
"There are also some childish, ill-informed, vulgar, insult-throwing whack-jobs"
 
"I think some of the name-callers should be removed, as they are, in my opinion, hurting the website "
 
Let that sink in.:)
Dino Manalis Added Aug 9, 2017 - 12:07pm
Maturity is essential to stop the childishness!
wsucram15 Added Aug 9, 2017 - 12:38pm
George..
You and I both know this used to be a far different place. I know what changed it..do you remember?  Just say yes or no,  no need to answer.
It became VERY argumentative at that time. Completely different people then and many have left because of that.
I have always been very vocal about a couple of topics, mostly because this is predominately men on this site writing all the time.
Other than that, there are some very intelligent people on this site and I have begged multiple times for people to stop the fighting.
It got so bad that I had to leave for a long time, but I was busy in Washington then anyway. 
I come on here to talk to a couple of people I like having conversations with and write something here and there, nothing more, nothing less. 
I do my best, and I pretty much perfected it at one point, ignoring people who like to annoy.  Im doing it right now...in fact.
But once in awhile, over certain things that arent politics,  you have to stand your ground.
 
john guzlowski Added Aug 9, 2017 - 1:08pm
I think Autumn ought to set one rule for this site.
 
No name calling!
 
One anti-semite SOB on this site, kept referring to me as Jewzlowski.
 
That's just childish and stupid.
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 9, 2017 - 1:43pm
No name calling!
 
One anti-semite SOB on this site, kept referring to me as Jewzlowski.
 
Let that sink in.
 
" Oh, Autumn! Sob, sniff, please make the SOB stop calling me names! Sob, sniff, choke, I hate that Nazi sub human, sob, sob, make him stop! Oh, God! What if the Bawstard returns and calls me names? Pleeeese, Autumn! Do something, that S.O.B is nearby, I can feel it! Sob, sniff, whimper, squelch,"
Stop the name calling! You Hitler loving, Gestapo Bawstard!'
George N Romey Added Aug 9, 2017 - 2:43pm
Jeanne to be honest I'm not sure. Certainly Ryan (now gone) is a factor. Let me be honest. I have little desire to fight deep seated opinions. As I've said Tom has forced me to see things I've never considered. I know there are many things we disagree on. I know changing someone's deep rooted opinions on a website isn't happening.
 
If it gets to the point of personal insults the arguments are lost. It's why I won't reply to John G again.
 
 
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 9, 2017 - 3:06pm
 
If it gets to the point of personal insults the arguments are lost. It's why I won't reply to John G again.
 
George, if you do not think that name calling is at the highest levels, you need only speak with Signal personnel ( US Army) to set that straight.
It is they who guard the deep secrets of POTUS, the Pentagon ,et Al. Because they are in charge of communications.
No one gets past them. They know and hear it all!
The horrible names fly back and forth.
You see diplomatic speech reported in the news: the actual names US, China, NK etc. Call each other are not reported.
 
Tom and Ryan gave you much to think about. And honestly who else will?
Effinate men will not go to war against King George,  Biv Brothdr, fake news phoney history.
 Teams of people piled up on Tom and Ryan, but they fought.
If does not take courage to bounce an ideal when the whole court is with you, but to bounce that among hostiles is quite the act of Bravery.
You believe opposite of Tom, Ryan and others?
Find.
But that does not demean their fearless approach to challenge us all to THINK.:)
john guzlowski Added Aug 9, 2017 - 3:14pm
Good lord, Tom Purcell is back and wearing his swastika.
 
Honestly, somebody has to stop him.
 
 
john guzlowski Added Aug 9, 2017 - 3:20pm
Dannl, any time, any place.
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 9, 2017 - 3:25pm
Dannl, any time, any place.
 
What do you mean Guzlowski?
 
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 9, 2017 - 3:26pm
@Tom, nice avatar!
( you do know that it is kryptonite to God's damned?)
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 9, 2017 - 3:28pm
 
Honestly, somebody has to stop him-Guzlowski
 
I sure love my freedom, don't you John?
Micahel Dolan Added Aug 9, 2017 - 3:58pm
TO EACH HIS OWN. Opinions are needed to have debates bring about a juicy conversation. Have an opinion-write it and hopefully a rational back and forth will pass muster.
 
Foot-Note If you are a conservative you will probably be headed to a very bad day.-If your a Trumpster -Forget About It-your Done. But I enjoy all the backlash-Makes My Trump Day. 4more years.
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 9, 2017 - 4:00pm
John G.
I looked up " anytime, anyplace "
Surely you do not mean physical?
John, for your safety, I decline.
I am 74, boy, And my life has been in a field plowing.
I still leap up on bareback horses, I still train them, I still round up sheep and I outwork men 40 years younger. Surely the suit and tie you wear does not fool you into thinking you could handle me?
Don't let your crocodile mouth overload your hummingbird arse.
Did you mean mental, then?
John, If I wanted to commit suicide, I would leap from your ego down to your I.q.
Good day... Peace!
George N Romey Added Aug 9, 2017 - 4:02pm
I don't have issues with people that want to post articles about anything.  I just know that at some point people's opinions aren't going to change and its best to leave it that.  Ryan unfortunately was just gibberish.  Tom and even Billy Roper can make you think.  People see Hitler as a monster and my view he was but so is the United States of America.  Its hypocrisy the whole way.  As I said at some point just walk away.  You are not forced to live with people here on WB.  You aren't forced to participate in their articles.
Donna Added Aug 9, 2017 - 4:18pm
George,
I think all here can teach something if you look hard at the article, not speaking of Ryan, as all he did was preach. Never could he look  at another view. It was always his way and his religion. 
Tom, i have learned from, not just his views on Hitler,but as a whole, his articles are very interesting. I also found Tom to be well, a nice guy, with different opinions, than most, which leaves him open to anything one would like to say or call him. We do not agree on all, but i found he is a kind soul. That appeals to me, on a personal level.
I miss a few who were here form the start of my time. Some were awesome writers, some were simply like me, we commented more than we wrote. 
I don't think the site will,ever change, but as you state, simply leave it alone..no need to comment, no need to argue.
Unless that is the choice one makes.I have argued with some on here, and will admit it, with no shame. I am learning to walk away.. )0(
George N Romey Added Aug 9, 2017 - 4:47pm
Donna I agree Tom is a likable person and have found his articles interested.  I don't think the German people were evil.  People forget how Hitler transformed the horrible German economy essentially within a year.  No surprise the Germans originally loved him and were willing to follow him into WW2.  The most horrible tragedy is human beings finding a reason to kill other human beings.
 
Now we are inching to WW3 after disasters in the Middle East.  Seems as though we never learn our lesson.
 
Donna Added Aug 9, 2017 - 5:00pm
George,I agree. i do not want WWIII, however it appears we are not the majority. On the whole Tom issue, my dad did a lot of Questioning of the truth about Germany. As he said, history is taught by those who make the books, not a true historian..Me i am on the edge on that..Just not sure..i see how he made the Germans a better country, yet i see the deaths, and think this could be US, today, or tomorrow, not real secure with the new administration. I am not a believer of war.. )0(
George N Romey Added Aug 9, 2017 - 5:09pm
Donna in the 90s very few knew the evil of the Clintons. Just look how Americans trusted Bill Clinton.
George N Romey Added Aug 9, 2017 - 5:16pm
Remember people like Truman thought entering the European theater stupid. He and others thought we should just let Germany and Russia fight amongst themselves. Nothing is as the history books write. Question the official narrative.
John G Added Aug 9, 2017 - 5:41pm
If it gets to the point of personal insults the arguments are lost. It's why I won't reply to John G again.
Oh good lord. Calling people trolls because they don't believe in your Fed conspiracy theory is name calling.
Where I come from, robust argument, swearing and hard fought political concepts are daily bread.
That's politics.
Tone policing is pathetic.
wsucram15 Added Aug 9, 2017 - 6:31pm
 
 
You are right George, thats when it changed. It got a little darker more regressive.  Whole slew of new people, most of them are gone now along with the regulars, a couple of whom  were very educated and really good writers.  I liked Ryan though, even though it was a fight with everyone on here.  He is a really smart guy, made things very lively.
 
 
Jeff Michka Added Aug 9, 2017 - 6:47pm
The very first time I posted a comment I got full barrels of Ryan Messano.  Called every name in the book, accused of drug use and had my family defamed in one comment post he made. Look back to when WB was at a point it might disappear.  Too many clowns here were quite willing to turn WB into Ryanland, without question by giving him control over something they didnt own, then the same mob tried this by elevating Nazi Tom Purcell to become der Fuhrer of WB.  Now, we've got the WB's chief nostalgia officer, Geo Romey lamenting "the good ol days" of WB.  Part of what Dishonest Geo won't say is how he changed things by trying to wring sympathy out of WBers for his personal job plight.  When that didn't work out, Geo had live for the "you're so right, Geo,' and other "Atta boys" from people.
wsucram15 Added Aug 9, 2017 - 6:56pm
OMG..Tom who is chasing you off of here? 
You wrote an article saying you were leaving...make up your mind.  This is a writers blog and you are free to write as you wish.  People that like your stuff will comment it.  You and everyone else on here are the same, why are you taking any of this so personally?  You are a good writer, your writing is solid.  I really do disagree with some of your foundations but I have only challenged one that I know you are wrong on and we discussed it. Other than that..I dont have the knowledge to do so.
 
Just like when "wannabe" writes her "fluff about overrated musicians", then you dont need to read it.  I write for me, not you.  There are people I enjoy talking to and I write stuff to converse with them. I learn from them.   If you want to join in fine..if not, thats ok too.  But your buddy Hitler was a big music fan or at least I have read that.  Also there are no overrated musicians...it takes talent to play music, even the worst man in history appreciated music.   (my opinion)
 
This is a social media page for writers so I write something I like.  I dont want to talk about death, gore and War. Thats your thing.  I like to make people forget about all the daily crap they deal with, this is my thing.
There are many talented people on here if you gave them a shot, they just talk about different things.
George N Romey Added Aug 9, 2017 - 7:09pm
Jeanne I suppose its the sign of the times. Its refreshing to sometimes
See something not politically motivated but again there's lots of unhappy people in this country now.  Ill miss Tom he did make me think & I wanted to converse on what we could agree on. 
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 9, 2017 - 7:21pm
Read more slowly, sound out the consonants and vowels separately then put the words together.  :)
 
Haha, Tom was that for Jeffrey? ( good for all of us, but it did include him, ay?)
Doug Plumb Added Aug 10, 2017 - 6:57am
There would be no point in posting if everyone agreed with you. John Ralston Saul has some interesting things to say about discussing politics (GREAT books too). WB is the way its supposed to be. This is great political discussion. Lots of people on here get it as well as I do and I don't find that often.
Wick Burner Added Aug 10, 2017 - 6:57am
This is a great post that has successfully brought people together from all points of the spectra, and most of the discourse between them has been civil, if not outright polite.
Friendship across the divide, and all that...  A wonderful job George.
I don't mind occasionally sharing a platform with people of diametrically opposed viewpoints.  Life is full of those occasions (train platforms, on the bus, at the market, the kids your kids go to school with, etc., etc.), so why should the inter-webs be any different...
People are people - you can talk to them, and they can talk to you, sometimes that might be yelling, but there's almost always some common ground in there somewhere.
A nice blend of heightened initial respect one one side and slightly thicker skin on the other, and much of the angst and aggravation evaporates...  But, we are only human, I suppose, and humans are fragile and emotional things...
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Aug 10, 2017 - 7:46am
George
 
I walked away too and came back. Humans are animals with habits....;-)
wsucram15 Added Aug 10, 2017 - 8:50am
George..I dont begrudge anyone that, and he is a good writer. I only have one difference of opinion with the man and thats it.
SEF..you are alright in my book.
George N Romey Added Aug 10, 2017 - 10:21am
In the past year we have gotten some great new writers.  They keep me here.
Steve Bergeron Added Aug 10, 2017 - 2:06pm
What happened to the good old days when people who disagreed could present their viewpoints and supporting facts, and both could honestly seek out the truth wherever it was to be found?  It seems that the majority of folks in our country have been "dummied down" to operating solely out of emotion and instinct.  What a loss!
Jeff Michka Added Aug 10, 2017 - 7:07pm
Geo Romey sez: This is an open forum.  Everyone is allowed to post their opinion.  Guess that makes your deletions the act of a hypocrite. LOL So keep deleting to keep what little exists of your "face."  I think most on WB know you're both an intellectual fraud and instant gratification seeker that sits on your intellectual fraud like whipped cream. "I don't read what he Writes..." LOL Yes you do.AND They keep me here.  No "they" don't, people telling you how "right you are, Geo" do.  That's what you probably didn't like about Mifume, or whatever site you were going to go to.  Nobody cared enough about Geo to leave "Atta boys" and ego strokes.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Aug 14, 2017 - 3:25pm
George
 
Get a thicker skin. I mean, now and then I'm attacked too, but so what ? How many times I'm called anti-American just because I try to bring up the European view on some things happening over there concerning US policies ? They don't understand that their actions affect the whole planet, so everybody HAS to have a say !
 
Live with it. Some people like to generalize and when you reply not as expected, they get personal. If that gives them what they need, so be it.
George N Romey Added Aug 15, 2017 - 11:07am
SEF I've long giving a damn about what Mika says. As I see he has no support on this board and no one agrees with him.  Wrong and stupid.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 16, 2017 - 9:48am
SEFa pontificates: Live with it. Some people like to generalize and when you reply not as expected, they get personal. If that gives them what they need, so be it.-What need, "Out of Africa?" More righteous crapola.  Geo can only delete because he has no answers.  Hey, is ol Geo joining all you folks in Africa.  That job talk is all he ever does...talk...talk...talk...cry.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 16, 2017 - 1:54pm
Geo Romey sez: SEF I've long giving a damn about what Mika says.-Then you should stop watching MSNBC, Geo. As I see he has no support on this board and no one agrees with him.  Wrong and stupid.-Oh, so now Geo is using Trumpist comments in absence of any facts or actions.  Geo, whiney sad.  Tears for Geo, he has no job where they "dress to his station in life..." AND unlike you, Geo, I DON'T LIVE FOR BACK PATS AND STROKES from WB ers like you so  desperately need.  Quick!! Delete or somone may notice you are a complete fraud.  Whine, cry, gloom and destruction for everyone but Geo...

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