Freedom Believing In Nothing

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Dark Matter.  It’s Nothing.  Believe That.

 

 

Follow the timeline of the progression of an individual's belief.  In most cases the timeline is a peak and trough cycle, bouncing along and through an array of philosophical or ideological concepts, from the peak of total dedication to the trough of complete severance, and back again.

 

Many times the adherent discovers, at some stage, the Big Lie behind what they believe in.  Then the divorce proceedings commence.

 

Then a new belief is needed.  To fill the void.

 

The cycle is complete, and then it commences again.

 

The World is full to overflowing with things you could believe in, like ‘trickle-down economies’, or ‘democracy’, or any nation-founding myth you care to choose, or that sky-fairies control and/or intervene in our personal destiny, … or ‘manifest destiny’, or celebrity, or any ‘-ology’, or science, or self, or that you are an indestructible cybernetic organism with lasers for eyes.

 

Name a thing, any thing that you could choose to believe in.  Now look for the Big Lie.

 

It’s there.  Sometimes you have to dig around a bit.  But it’s there.

 

My Advice: Don’t believe in anything anymore.  A Theory Of The Moment and a small arsenal of Alternative Pet Theories is all you should need.  Anything else is probably just a lie.  In only that should you have anything resembling faith.

 

There’s a freedom in believing in nothing.

 

Yours in disbelief,

 

Wick Burner

 

 

Note: This post was first published, minutes ago and in ever-so-slightly differently-edited form (I improved it slightly before publishing here), at my shitty web-log, still the current font of all my inane ramblings.

Comments

Tubularsock Added Aug 10, 2017 - 10:57am
Wick, Tubularsock has tested your new/old/medium “Theory Of The Moment” and found that the MOMENT constantly changes and by the time Tubularsock had gotten the “Theory Of The Moment” written down the moment had changed and proceed to write now the “Theory Of The Moment” for the new moment and yet again the moment changed.
 
It was at this moment, Tubularsock means that moment not this moment, no really THIS moment, ahh forget it. Anyway, at some moment Tubularsock jumped to his very own “Alternative Pet Theories” and ALL things became clear once again.
 
Tubularsock’s central theory is not to believe in ANY theory that doesn’t pay well, so fuck it!
Wick Burner Added Aug 10, 2017 - 11:02am
Tubularsock,
That's exactly correct - who can keep up? When moments are coming and going like ...  I don't know ... a sequential progression of a human construct called time, or something crazy like that...
I too live mostly in the realm of the Alternative Pets.  None of them get me paid, but, variety is the spice of life!
Tubularsock Added Aug 10, 2017 - 11:09am
Wick, you mean Tubularsock "IS EXACTLY CORRECT", really?
 
Oh shit .............. that moment past, damn!
Wick Burner Added Aug 10, 2017 - 11:18am
Yeah, but that was then.  They were good times, back then, when you were right, for a moment...
I've been there, man. Back in '97, I was right.  I think it was a late hour on a day in July. Yep, good times.
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 10, 2017 - 12:05pm
#wick burner and Tubularsock.
Dannl searched out the meaning of moment. It is strange to watch the graphic representations of  the letters ,M O M E N T change before Dannl's eyes. Now, sadly, Dannl must search for new moments.. They age so quickly. There's one! Grab it!
And I do not want to go to Mars, unhand me!!!
Wick Burner Added Aug 10, 2017 - 12:55pm
Those letters just changed, from one moment to the next, right before my eyes.
And again, every time I look at your comment...  little letters, big letters... and back again...
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 10, 2017 - 12:59pm
@wick. This was fun until the letters changed to say, He means it.
TFW you slap your forehead and say, Doh!!!
Dino Manalis Added Aug 10, 2017 - 1:03pm
Respect people's beliefs, but don't become obsessed with any idea yourself!  We should consider new paths!
Melina Ahl Added Aug 10, 2017 - 3:45pm
I very much hope I believe nothing.
Melina Ahl Added Aug 10, 2017 - 3:46pm
"Respect people's beliefs"
 
No: I refuse. Respect is earned, not granted.
George N Romey Added Aug 10, 2017 - 5:54pm
Ive abandoned most of previous beliefs over the past 5 years. I've learned they are lies.
Wick Burner Added Aug 10, 2017 - 6:04pm
@Dannl, don't go joining the small and shrinking collective of beings that take anything I say seriously. It's a trap.
Wick Burner Added Aug 10, 2017 - 6:05pm
@Dino - exactly.
Wick Burner Added Aug 10, 2017 - 6:06pm
@Melina - I probably still believe some things, but I *know* that I know nothing...
Wick Burner Added Aug 10, 2017 - 6:11pm
@George - I've certainly churned through a few beliefs in recent years as well.
John G Added Aug 10, 2017 - 7:40pm
Seeing through the lies is one thing. The trick is to not just pick up another set of lies.
 
Saint George Added Aug 10, 2017 - 11:12pm
The trick is to not just pick up another set of lies.
 
Pot + Kettle + Black = Hypocrite
Robert Wendell Added Aug 10, 2017 - 11:21pm
I believe in flexible beliefs continuously monitored for their practical utility and internal consistency within the belief itself and all it embraces and implies as well as consistency the broader field of all my beliefs. Do I believe one thing within subject matter A and the opposite in subject matter B simply because I filed them in different mental drawers and never the twain shall meet? Every belief I have must be compatible with everything else I believe or the internal inconsistency alarm goes off and I have to revisit the issue and resolve it.
 
Having no beliefs is about as possible as never doing anything at all...ever. Thought is the gate from simply existing to actually doing something of value (or not). I just read an article on research that showed that critical thought is more important than intelligence in making wise life decisions.
 
Unfortunately, other research reveals that only about 17% (about one in six) of the U.S. population ever develops the ability to use critical thought consistently outside the context of a particular field in which they happen to specialize. Put another way, many more than 17% can apply critical thought to solve a technical problem at work, for example, while nevertheless allowing poorly reasoned impulses to run the rest of their lives.
 
Sadly, about 20% of any large population has no ability to apply critical thought to anything at all. If you were to conclude from this that this 20% is identical to the lowest 20% in intelligence, you would be very wrong. They do correlate, but increasingly weakly at the higher levels of intelligence.
 
Intelligence varies relatively little over an adult lifetime while the ability to exercise critical thought is a learned skill that can vary enormously over a lifetime. Intelligence is no guarantor of the ability to exercise critical thought over the wide range of realities that constitute a human life.
Katharine Otto Added Aug 11, 2017 - 12:50am
Then, there's the belief that anything is possible, in the spacious present . . . 
 
Or, you could believe that moments are only sequential in a space-time framework.
 
MJ Added Aug 11, 2017 - 1:33am
Wick, freedom in believing nothing seems to me to be just skimming the surface of life, no meaning in life whatsoever.
I am a passionate person and cannot imagine not believing in something and go out full throttle to defend my beliefs.
Wick Burner Added Aug 11, 2017 - 8:00am
@John G, yes, breaking that cycle is, I think, what I was partly intending to say.  It was a bit of a stream-of-mind piece, to be honest.  I was in a cynical mood, and I'd imbibed some vodka...
Wick Burner Added Aug 11, 2017 - 8:06am
@Robert Wendell, clearly a very analytical and pragmatic approach.  That critical thought is what is needed to see the Big Lie I mentioned - and the percentages you quote sound about right (although I usually grossly exaggerate the numbers of the totally-incapable for sake of hyperbole...).
As you say, raw intelligence can be applied in an array of directions, for many different purposes, good and evil.
Wick Burner Added Aug 11, 2017 - 8:18am
@Katharine Otto, I like that belief, that anything is possible, I think I'd call that a core belief.  The space-time mathematical progression is overt, but is scary and has no soul...
Wick Burner Added Aug 11, 2017 - 8:24am
@MJ, you're right about skimming the surface.  It is doing only that.
As I only just commented above, there are also 'core' beliefs, and I think everyone has those.  I don't think that they ever include those 'false construct' beliefs that get imposed after initial imprint, and they are what I was aiming my cynicism at - in a sort of whimsical/faux-apathetic way.
George N Romey Added Aug 11, 2017 - 8:54am
If there is one thing I can say for sure is that critical thinkers are out and drone Compliant like humans are in. And yes along with hysteria. 
Wick Burner Added Aug 11, 2017 - 9:42am
George, Critical thinkers are a threat to many. Livestock are always an asset.
Robert Wendell Added Aug 11, 2017 - 12:20pm
LOL, that's a good one, Wick (and George).
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Aug 11, 2017 - 12:29pm
Robert
 
Sounds pessimistic, those 20%....how's life anyway ?
 
George N Romey Added Aug 11, 2017 - 1:29pm
Good to hear from Robert.  Please stay on, we need your wisdom and sanity. 
Infidel753 Added Aug 11, 2017 - 1:38pm
Respect people's beliefs
 
Many beliefs are not worthy or respect.  Most religious beliefs are ridiculous, and the beliefs of Nazis and Holocaust deniers are evil.
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 11, 2017 - 2:37pm
Most religious beliefs are ridiculous, and the beliefs of Nazis and Holocaust deniers are evil.
 
That puts your opinion where exactly?
opher goodwin Added Aug 11, 2017 - 5:05pm
Infidel that is a statement that I would concur with - Many beliefs are not worthy or respect.  Most religious beliefs are ridiculous, and the beliefs of Nazis and Holocaust deniers are evil. 
But I still think that respect is the basis for debate. Poor beliefs are shown to be inadequate in the light of reason.
opher goodwin Added Aug 11, 2017 - 5:11pm
Wick - In a sense I try to believe in nothing in that I do not attach myself to any religion or political party and I do not believe in facts.
But I do believe in many things - tolerance, freedom, love, compassion, respect, responsibility, equality and wonder.
I think life is there to be lived to the full.
I believe we should look after the planet.
I believe we should do our utmost to prevent war, put right poverty and suffering and oppose the greed and selfishness that is destroying the planet.
I believe violence is wrong and rarely necessary.
I believe in the power of education.
I believe that we need to find a global way of stopping multinationals, capitalism and the selfish and greedy from destroying the planet.
I believe that all religions are manmade.
And so on and on........
So while I believe in nothing I find myself a man of many beliefs.
George N Romey Added Aug 11, 2017 - 5:52pm
Too many evils are passed on as supposedly freedoms or self made man. 
opher goodwin Added Aug 11, 2017 - 7:10pm
Such as George?
Jeff Michka Added Aug 11, 2017 - 7:24pm
opher goodwin asks: Such as George? Geo won't answer, since he only lives for being told he's correct and right.  He never has answers, just complaints about his now low-status life, constant, along with wanting everybody to suffer.  Geo is a $3 bill.
Robert Wendell Added Aug 11, 2017 - 10:44pm
Opher, I agree with you on everything but parts of what you say about religion. It is my studied opinion that fundamentalism is the problem and not religion per se. Fundamentalism is belief in the superficial cultural trimmings and differences from other cultures as fundamental and absolute while ignoring all the things you mentioned, which are, by the way, also common to every great world religion.
 
Most importantly, the Golden Rule is common to every major religion in the world. The greatest in every such religion have cited the Golden Rule as the essence and ground of all morality. Yet much of religious history is filled with killing "unbelievers" over superficial cultural claptrap and differences in ancient cosmologies that don't hold up to modern science.
 
Many of these cosmologies are actually at least partially valid metaphorically. However, fundamentalists insist they are not metaphorical but literal. The Torah, the Christian bible, the Koran, the Tao Te Ching, the Buddhist Diamond Sutra, etc. are not books of science.
 
I don't believe they were ever pretended to be. It's provincial, simplistic, black-and-white, literal-minded thinking that is responsible for the bad reputation of many spiritual traditions. Unfortunately that kind of mindset is the most common among human beings.
Robert Wendell Added Aug 11, 2017 - 10:45pm
I'm doing fine, Stone-Eater. Hope you're doing well!
Robert Wendell Added Aug 11, 2017 - 10:46pm
Thank you, George.
Robert Wendell Added Aug 11, 2017 - 10:48pm
Reply to Jeff:
Look who's projecting everything true about himself on anyone he disagrees with.
Robert Wendell Added Aug 11, 2017 - 11:01pm
Stone-Eater, I find it interesting that the 20% severely afflicted with Authoritarian Personality Disorder and/or Social Dominator Personality coincides very closely with the last figure I heard on Trump's hardcore supporters who stick with him no matter what (21%).
 
I don't think all Trump supporters are racist, but it would be stupid to deny that very many of them are. Those who are really don't care about the rest. They are single-issue voters who like his racism and really don't give a purple flying fig about anything else.
 
The Neo-Nazis only hate Trump because he doesn't go far enough in their sick little minds. The less virulent racists don't even perceive as racist all the thinly veiled euphemisms Republicans have been using for decades to garner votes.
 
They pretend to themselves they are not, but their criteria for what constitutes racism is extremely generous. We who grew up in the Jim Crow south know those euphemisms extremely well. They don't fool us (born 1944) or any blacks who've lived through their effects.
Eileen de Bruin Added Aug 12, 2017 - 2:44am
Having no beliefs is about as possible as never doing anything at all...ever.
 
Robert: beliefs can be just programs, with which we grew up and had instilled into us. A belief, in itself, therefore, is suspect.
 
Wick: it is a good idea to place all or any of our beliefs in a suspect area of our mind to clear it somewhat.
 
To believe in nothing at all might be a good opening to allowing the mind to become open to seeing and learning.
 
Faith is more subtle and is an inner conviction, This word is incorrectly used to denote a religious conviction. Faith and belief are not interchangeable.
Wick Burner Added Aug 12, 2017 - 8:35am
@opher goodwin,
You and me both.  Without playing semantics on the difference between 'belief' and 'conviction' (I'm sure there's plenty of overlap in many places) - what you believe, I may be convinced of...
I disagree with nothing on your list.  Although, there are some facts I believe - but that list is short.
opher goodwin Added Aug 12, 2017 - 8:39am
Robert - I agree that fundamentalism in all its forms and literal interpretations is the most harmful. But for me religion does not have to be fanatical to do harm. Many children are indoctrinated by ordinary religious people. The harm of threatening kids with hell or the guilt of doing perfectly acceptable things is in my view psychologically damaging.
opher goodwin Added Aug 12, 2017 - 8:41am
Wick - I'm not even sure I exist or the world is real. Glad you agree. What is on your list?
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 12, 2017 - 8:56am
perfectly acceptable things is in my view psychologically damaging.
Opher, Rape is acceptable in Muslim society, so is honor killing, so is wife beating and guess what? Too many of us do not want queers around our children.
It is being forced!
Perfectly accepted?? Not even!
opher goodwin Added Aug 12, 2017 - 9:05am
Dannl - What perfectly acceptable things?
I despair at religion. In the bible sacrifice of children was perfectly acceptable wasn't it? God said to Abraham kill me a son.
There is nothing acceptable about rape, slavery, honour killings, FGM, segregation of women, imposition of clothing, stopping women going out of doors or driving, indoctrinating children and hundreds of other things.
But homosexuals? Come of it Dannl. Aren't you getting confused with paedophiles? Someone's sexual orientation does not make them a danger to children. Get real.
In my book what two consenting adults choose to do in the privacy of their own homes is up to them. Why should it affect me?
Wick Burner Added Aug 12, 2017 - 9:18am
@opher,
Facts?
- Life (whatever that means)
- Death (whatever that means)
- Gravity
- Humans know very little
Beyond that, almost everything is up for grabs.  Current research interests are convincing me that almost all of modern history is a farce supported by a flimsy framework of fakery.  It puts one in a rather cynical frame of mind...
Wick Burner Added Aug 12, 2017 - 9:23am
@Eileen de Bruin,
I like your allusion to a cleansing/resetting achieved through compartmentalising suspect beliefs to enable objective re-assessment.
As for faith being delineated from belief, you've nailed the root of many ills there, where actions based on belief in a faith have caused so much damage and death.  If only that line weren't so blurry for so many...
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 12, 2017 - 9:38am
. In the bible sacrifice of children was perfectly acceptable wasn't it? God said to Abraham kill me a son.
 
No! A thousand times no!
And don't you dare call yourself a researcher and bring stuff like this to the table.. This stuff came from your grandfather's colostomy bag!!
"Sacrifice" was what the savages were doing. It was called "Holocaust" bug you would not know that, would you  Mr."pure science"?
God, Told Abraham to sacrifice his only son, it was not to fulfill that And Abraham knew it.
Here is where we must look to the times.
Must God follow our modern protocol and say to Abraham, " Dude! Let's get something straight obedience is better than sacrifice!"?
God is not allowed, according to Mr. Buck Rogers, to walk Abraham through this!
You are not going to fool me, Opher, And I intend to withstand your colostomy bag of OPHALL!
YOU ARE AN ENEMY TO GOD AND THEREFORE AN AGENT OF CHAOS!
How dare you sprinkle fetid water on queers and call them anointed?
"What they do in privacy..."
Are you an idjit????
Go to San Francisco, see what they do, in the streets, in the windows, in front of shops and drag their children by the hand to force this on them!
Hell no! Ophall! Hell no!
Not in my life!
You and your armchair social workers are not the esophagus for a righteous society. GodDamn everyone of you! And maybe put it this way for you secular blood ticks....may a meteorite strike earth with San Francisco as ground zero!
As for the "all encompassing love" of Jesus all of you queers secretly and vainly hope for, here it is,
"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'" Luke 19:27
That is your "hope" enemies of God!
 
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 12, 2017 - 9:53am
All many of you do on WB is pretend intellectual maturity, with endless quotes, links and book reviews.
An old trick is to cut a foot off the top of a blanket, see it to the bottom and tell idjits you made it longer.
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 12, 2017 - 9:57am
Someone quoted Kurt Vonnegut, for crying out loud!
Vonnegut? "Billy Pilgrim pretended to be dead ehile a ',Nazi' knocked his gold tooth out with a rifle butt"
And you believed that???
opher goodwin Added Aug 12, 2017 - 9:58am
Wick - I like your list. I agree with life and death - with the provisos - not sure about gravity - I've experienced moments when it seemed to not be there (normally after I've hit something at speed). As for humans - I'm hoping they are an illusion.
There is nothing wrong with cynicism. It's the antidote to gullibility.
opher goodwin Added Aug 12, 2017 - 10:05am
Dannl - "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'" Luke 19:27 - so is that then OK to kill or is it still Thou Shalt Not Kill?
As I said - all ambiguous contradictory medieval crap full of prejudice and cultural rubbish from the dawn of time fuelling intolerance and justifying violence, aggression and viciousness.
Quite a tirade of bile and fury hurled at a minority who you don't approve of.
It is that intolerance and violence that I stand against. religious people are full of it. You know - righteous wrath - because it is written.
And you wonder why I am an antitheist? You demonstrate the reason. Religion is fostering hatred. 
opher goodwin Added Aug 12, 2017 - 10:07am
Dannl - didn't you just cut and paste a quote? It is spelt idiots BTW.
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 12, 2017 - 10:47am
 Dannl - didn't you just cut and paste a quote? It is spelt idiots BTW.
 
No, Mr research, I did not cut and paste.
The word 'idiot' is 'idjit' in Scots language ( My Father) as is "injun" for Indian. You OK with that?
As for, Thou shalt not Kill..means murder Mr. Researcher 2017! Murder. The execution of criminals is not murder. The culling of rams that Gore and bully is not murder.
 
Thou shalt not Murder. As in Sadat, As in Saddam Hussein, as in Quadaffi, as in Bin Laden and as in Kim Jung Un.! That is what that commandment is for.
Dang, your own President of the US is not safe, boy!!!
Raise your hand JFK. A little higher please, Jack, you are in a coffin.
You murdering bastards have the nerve to condemn anyone while you sodomise each other and parade  naked down public streets?
30,000 children disappear every year and not a single whimper out of you ' I hate Christians' libtards?
Not a clue about these children??not one?
When the Apollo blew up, ( named after a queer God ) every shard and sliver was found, but let 30,000 children disappear and you murderers don't have a clue!
A Black church is bombed in the South, the FBI kicks through the ashes, scratching their heads.."ain't gots a clue.. Musta been Jim Crow dun it!"
And you murderers, bombing the crap out of this planet saying, ' I grew up in the Jim Crow era.. Sounds like rednecks for sure'
Well Jim Crow, does not even bomb mosques or Synagogues, idjits!
You think he bombs churches??
Who would bomb a church and have no remorse? A queer with credentials!
Now, let's go find a dictator who is " gassing his own people " how dare he?
That is our job to murder his people!
opher goodwin Added Aug 12, 2017 - 10:54am
Dannl - what a muddled heap of hate-filled invective.
Excuse me - I haven't kidnapped anyone, bombed anywhere or condoned any such crime. I'm not a racist either. I do not condone violence. I am a heterosexual but I am not a homophobic dickhead. Neither do I condone state murder or tolerate prejudice.
You come over as a hate-filled religious fanatic to me.
opher goodwin Added Aug 12, 2017 - 10:56am
Dannl - weird Scot's dialect. We now use injun and idjit in the English language do we?
opher goodwin Added Aug 12, 2017 - 10:59am
Dannl - you prove my point with every utterance. As I said - the ambiguity and contradiction in the bible and other religious texts allows imbeciles to come along and interpret it in any way they like. It is wrong to kill - unless it is someone I hate - then it's alright. Very clear. Killing means murder. We'll define what murder means. If it the state murdering people it is legitimate. If it is gays then that's alright. Do you have any morality?
Katharine Otto Added Aug 12, 2017 - 11:06am
Wick,
Your mention of "core beliefs" reminds me of the channeled entity "Seth" in the Jane Roberts series.  I know "science" and "religion" condemn such hokey contributors to the mass mind, but Seth has a substantial following and makes good sense.  I've found the books confirm many of my beliefs and take them further.
 
Seth says it's important to recognize core beliefs, such as the mass belief in space and time.  Beliefs about reality are not the same as reality itself.  Man is limited by many of his beliefs but is ultimately creative and "the point of power is in the present." He talks about the "spacious present." He insists we create our own realities.  You get what you focus on, for good or ill.  Religion, by the way, has served a valid purpose in helping man strive for ideals, but both religion and science can be limited by dogma.
 
 
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 12, 2017 - 11:09am
Dannl - weird Scot's dialect. We now use injun and idjit in the English language do we?
Go see what your effeminate Vonnegut used as a license.
Cut your crap with me boy, I will use what ever verbiage I choose, you use your nigger language, F word, submit that sodomy is "perfectly acceptable' and ask me if I have morality???
Argue about Killing all you desire. You have hit how many animals, birds, and insects with your car and pretend the coffers of morality are rich with your divine shillings??
You are trying to fool the wrong one little tinker toy!
opher goodwin Added Aug 12, 2017 - 12:00pm
Dannl - we all kill to live - though not with malice, hatred and intent.
You are a strange one - it's alright to hate, kill, use racist language, be violently homophobic but you can't say fuck.
Can't see what was effeminate about Kurt Vonnegut though. That's another weird one Dannl.
I can see you do have morality - it's just fucked up.
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 12, 2017 - 12:24pm
No Hypocrite crap from you "we all kill to live"
How many birds have you left fluttering on the highway, desperately  attempting to fly away?
His many deer do you think are left on the side of the road to languish for days until the vultures which have plucked it'd eyes out and it's tongue, finish it off? Because the psychotic professor hit it with the car, and sped off..it is just s deer..no investigation who gives a F ?
The deer doesn't need to live. Now how about those courageous queers coming out of the closet?
As your ilk drive smugly to the town hall to sip your latte and talk about the need for queer rights.
Visit, a slaughter house, Opher, any of them. Have you ever heard a cow scream for its life?
Hell no you haven't. You are too busy at your armchair coliseum putting Christians to death..gotta love those faggots though! Jesus said so! ( no he fix NOT!)
Watch the man poke the cow with an electric rod. He sure doesn't want one put to hid arse! Watch him force the cow down s chute to its death.  
Learn at this point that the cow knows what is going on and is screaming. ( grammar Nazi, I do not mean ' bellowing' I mean bone chilling Screaming!!)
Then watch as a man in a tow motor drags a cow with a broken leg,to her doom.
God damn everyone of you Hypocrites, and when you die, God will tell you Dannl Yoder testifies against you next!
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 12, 2017 - 12:28pm
but you can't say fuck.
 
Opher, I can say it. I can say all the 259 words in the Nigger language. I choose not to.
There are better words, I feel that express higher ideas than the low I.Q. F word.
But you go on and prove what the critics say about Geo. Bush's plan, ' no child gets ahead!'
opher goodwin Added Aug 12, 2017 - 2:07pm
Dannl you are a simple minded headcase. If any god takes notes from you he's one sad case.
What is all this nigger language you keep on about? Is that just your twisted racist mind?
You claim higher ideas? All I've heard from you is vile diatribe of the most unintelligent, uneducated variety. Low IQ? Sounds like you.
Fuck is about sex. Sex is OK too. Unless of course you are a guilt-ridden Christian paying heed to the customs of the Arab tribes back in the deserts thousands of years ago where it all sprang from.
You talk gibberish. Sounds like nearly every child got ahead of you.
opher goodwin Added Aug 12, 2017 - 2:10pm
Dannl - as a biologist I have always celebrated living creatures. I'n no more leave an injured animal at the side of the road than a person. I've never hit a deer, though we do have them in England, and I've only once hit a bird. Very upsetting.
Your post about the cruelty in abattoirs is very salutary. All it tells me is that they need to clean their act up. I'm not opposed to killing animals but I'd like it done painlessly and humanely.
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 12, 2017 - 3:54pm
. I'm not opposed to killing animals but I'd like it done painlessly and humanely.
HUmanely. 
I see, like what you are?HUmanely?
You hit a bird once? Poor babeeeeeee.
Stop driving_Hypocrite or shug up.
You love that F word, I see that. You will even defend that.
To accept your vilr motion that "sex' is OK. Is to insult my own pekple, parents and relatives that protectedtheir children from ravenous wolves like you!!
And you did not answer my question. You are a woman, also a Jew. 
Oh Gawd, Dannl don't reveal the wolves! that is not new age and NWO! 
You don't have to answer the Question. I already know.
As for your slam, being left behind by everyone.
You are in the wrong circus MS. Goodwin, this race is not to the swiftest... Good for you because I am light years ahead of you.
opher goodwin Added Aug 12, 2017 - 4:03pm
Dannl - I already answered you. No I am not female. Last time I looked I had all male parts in full working order. I am also English and non-Jewish. Though I can't see what that has got to do with anything.
So we have another string to our bow - racist, homophobic and anti-Semitic.
I'm certainly reviewing my view of Amish. I thought they weren't toxic. If you are typical then they are guilt-ridden, hate-filled and totally intolerant.
I suppose the Amish are another bunch claiming to be god's chosen. The list gets ever longer and more pathetic.
If you doubt me then check out my books on Amazon. There's a picture of me.
opher goodwin Added Aug 12, 2017 - 4:05pm
Dannl - Light years ahead? You're back in the Dark Ages son. You still live in medieval times. You're light years back in my dust. You talk about me having a big ego. Hold up a mirror. I'm in the 21st century where we look down on bigots, racists, homophobes and intolerant people. We've moved on. Which century are you stuck in?
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 12, 2017 - 4:18pm
"Check out my book on Amazon"
Here it comes. " I am accomplished!"
Your idea of dark ages and the century you live in is equinamous.it is where you find your homoPhalic peace.
I am not the typical anything, I do not speak for the Amish, I speak my own mind. Yours is rubbish, and can be read in any "Amazon.com book store"
You are part of a movement, that is all. You have nothing original, you are encapsulated!
The 'Nigger' word? You want to know "what's with that?"
I believe it was satchmo, a black musician who said," I can explain it to you, but you will not understand it."
 
 
 
Eileen de Bruin Added Aug 12, 2017 - 6:25pm
Wick, thank you for that acknowledgement, realisation. Yes, faith is distinct from belief. Let's re set, re think, ponder perhaps. Pondering is the stillness of the soul. Thinking is the action of the ego.
Let us .ponder on.
Robert Wendell Added Aug 12, 2017 - 8:24pm
Opher, you said, "The harm of threatening kids with hell or the guilt of doing perfectly acceptable things is in my view psychologically damaging."
 
So that is one of the superficial cultural trappings I was talking about. Fundamentalists take hell literally, and heaven, too, for that matter. Jesus himself said, "And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."
Luke 17:20-21 King James Version (KJV)
 
 
So the Christian bible has Jesus saying here that the kingdom of heaven is not a physical place, didn't he? It's amazing how fundamentalists rationalize their way around the truly deep stuff and elevate superficial, spiritually irrelevant details, if we discount metaphor, to absolute truth. The Catholic church in earliest times accepted reincarnation as fact, for example. The church changed this later to one life and heaven, purgatory, or hell afterward because they felt reincarnation didn't inspire enough incentive to do right.
Robert Wendell Added Aug 12, 2017 - 8:25pm
Opher, you said, "The harm of threatening kids with hell or the guilt of doing perfectly acceptable things is in my view psychologically damaging."
 
So that is one of the superficial cultural trappings I was talking about. Fundamentalists take hell literally, and heaven, too, for that matter. Jesus himself said, "And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."
Luke 17:20-21 King James Version (KJV)
 
 
So the Christian bible has Jesus saying here that the kingdom of heaven is not a physical place, didn't he? It's amazing how fundamentalists rationalize their way around the truly deep stuff and elevate superficial, spiritually irrelevant details, if we discount metaphor, to absolute truth. The Catholic church in earliest times accepted reincarnation as fact, for example. The church changed this later to one life and heaven, purgatory, or hell afterward because they felt it didn't inspire enough incentive to do right.
Robert Wendell Added Aug 12, 2017 - 8:26pm
Opher, you said, "The harm of threatening kids with hell or the guilt of doing perfectly acceptable things is in my view psychologically damaging."
 
So that is one of the superficial cultural trappings I was talking about. Fundamentalists take hell literally, and heaven, too, for that matter. Jesus himself said, "And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."
Luke 17:20-21 King James Version (KJV)
 
 
So the Christian bible has Jesus saying here that the kingdom of heaven is not a physical place, didn't he? It's amazing how fundamentalists rationalize their way around the truly deep stuff and elevate superficial, spiritually irrelevant details, if we discount metaphor, to absolute truth. The Catholic church in earliest times accepted reincarnation as fact, for example. The church changed this later because they felt it didn't inspire enough incentive to do right.
Robert Wendell Added Aug 12, 2017 - 8:28pm
Opher, you said, "The harm of threatening kids with hell or the guilt of doing perfectly acceptable things is in my view psychologically damaging."
 
So that is one of the superficial cultural trappings I was talking about. Fundamentalists take hell literally, and heaven, too, for that matter. Jesus himself said, "And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."
Luke 17:20-21 King James Version (KJV)
 
So the Christian bible has Jesus saying here that the kingdom of heaven is not a physical place, didn't he? It's amazing how fundamentalists rationalize their way around the truly deep stuff and elevate superficial, spiritually irrelevant details, if we discount metaphor, to absolute truth. The Catholic church in earliest times accepted reincarnation as fact, for example. The church changed this later because they felt it didn't inspire enough incentive to do right.
opher goodwin Added Aug 13, 2017 - 5:00am
Robert - I believe that all religions are used by men as power bases. The teaching hardly matter. It is a numbers and power game.
I'm an antitheist because I believe religion was created by people, used for power and does more harm than good. We'd be better off without it.
Christianity was a minor Jewish sect until Constantine used it to consolidate his power.
I am quite happy for people to have their personal faith. But I am not happy when it is foisted on others. Fundamentalists, who take the words literally, are beyond belief. Those words were collected long after the death of all the disciples and were part of an oral tradition before being committed to papyrus. We all know about Chinese whispers.
One can use the bible, koran or any other religious book to make a case for diametrically opposed stances simply by selecting the texts you use.
Whatever Jesus stood for has been masked in translation.
I look at these works as interesting historical documents about a period of time long gone with all its customs, beliefs and idiosyncrasies. There were some beautiful passages and great ideas too. But as a blueprint for the 21st century? Not for me.
George N Romey Added Aug 13, 2017 - 10:08am
Opher the biggest one is the "free market" myth.  Or the 'we have to fight them there or they will fight us here."  Or globalization (or at least the version we have) is helping to alleviate poverty (its only transferring its effects.)  Or that you can be anyone you want to be with self determination. Or that the Russian is bad and wants to destroy the US.  You get the picture.
Robert Wendell Added Aug 13, 2017 - 2:24pm
Opher, there have always a very rare, wise human here or there who had deep spiritual insights and communicated them with allegory and metaphor that others seeking power used and abused as you describe. I just don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are components of every great religion that are in common with each other.
 
Those are generally the genuinely insightful parts. Power mongers ignore them and use the irrelevant stuff to justify their evil intentions. They do this by manipulating the unthinking, literal-minded majority of their subjects using ill-founded dogma and their differences with that of others to start wars, persecute "unbelievers", etc. This does nothing to impugn genuine spiritual insight unless you've never experienced any yourself.
opher goodwin Added Aug 13, 2017 - 2:29pm
George - I'm right with you.
opher goodwin Added Aug 13, 2017 - 2:32pm
Robert - there is wisdom in those books - inbetween the stupidities - human beings have always been intelligent, thoughtful and good at thinking. They were put together by the best minds. But they are culturally of their time and have to be read as historical artifacts bearing that in mind. To take them literally is absurd. To take them as the word of god is even more absurd.
I'm all for 'spirituality', even though I don't know what I mean by that, but religion is an abuse of those books.
Robert Wendell Added Aug 13, 2017 - 4:03pm
Then we have no disagreement on that, Opher, unless you take exception to my belief that the ground of the universe is not inert or material, but the essence of everything and is both conscious and intelligent. I believe the Unified Field, whenever they discover it, and I believe they will, is intelligent and conscious. As defined, they are looking for the root of all that exists. I believe our experience of consciousness and intelligence is merely a local, holographic manifestation of that Abstract Wholeness. To believe otherwise, in my opinion, is to believe in a violation of conservation law at the most fundamental level possible.
opher goodwin Added Aug 14, 2017 - 4:58am
I don't have a problem with that at all Robert. It is something that I have always had an inkling for. I don't believe in god but when pressed talk about a spirituality that is akin to atomic energy. It is probably not what I really believe in but I hope it's true. I'd like to think there was intelligence somewhere in the universe because there's scant sign of it on this planet.
Eileen de Bruin Added Aug 14, 2017 - 6:20am
Dearie old me. It doesn't take mich to get the bashing of each other's beliefs or views does it?
 
Perhaps adopting Nothing as a starting point is not a bad idea at all.
 
Clear the mind. Look at an object. A flower, say, but without using your knowledge of the petals, the stalk, the colours and the name given to it. Just see it and think nothing. That is a very difficult thing to do, but it can still the mind and it can bring you to a different sense, without labels or prejudices, of the flower.  Or a candle. Or a table or a chair. Or whatever. See how difficult it is to NOT defining it or using your past knowledge to allocate it somewhere. Just SEE it, witness it ...
 
I like Nothing. It is above something. It is not anything at all. It is no thing.  No thing is no object. 
 
 
Robert Wendell Added Aug 14, 2017 - 12:07pm
It sounds a lot like you're talking about transcendence, Eileen, which is something I experience frequently during meditation. However, it is both nothing and everything, both empty and completely full and deeply blissful. If you truly experience it, you realize it is the essence of who we all really are and out of which everything else manifests.
Robert Wendell Added Aug 14, 2017 - 12:12pm
Good, Opher. The only thing I would add is that I believe that essential unity is the Supreme, Conscious, and Loving Intelligence that runs the whole show. What people suffer is just the result of bad action, no matter what the source of that action. I personally believe in a just universe when viewed as a whole. You can't believe that and not accept the idea of reincarnation. There cannot be a just universe without reincarnation. There is no obvious justice in a three-year-old child losing legs and an eye in the Syrian civil war. However, we don't know what that person did to earn that no matter how many lives ago it might have been. That's just my view, but I have what for me are solid reasons for it.
opher goodwin Added Aug 14, 2017 - 5:26pm
I wish I did Robert. I'd love to believe in Karma. I have no belief in reincarnation either.
Why should there be a just universe?
Robert Wendell Added Aug 14, 2017 - 7:24pm
You need to experience transcendence to understand why, Opher. See my reply to Eileen. That's not nearly enough, but I don't have time to elaborate right now. However, here's a link to an old article of mine here on WB:
Spiritual Minimalism
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 14, 2017 - 8:18pm
Here,I furmly agree with you Opher.
" I have no belief in reincarnation either."
Reincarnation is absolute nonsense. Two people are reincarnated in a world where there are 4.
4 are reincarnated knto a world of millions...the millions are reincarnated into a world of Billions...no word yet where any of them come from...wait for it....Eastern religion.
Karma, is a trap into the ancient East Indian rubbish.
True Karma can only be obtained through a violent death. 
The spiritualist, Edgar Cayce warned about "transcending" you invite spirits into your body who refuse to leave and eventually destroy you...their purpose.
 
They do tell you things and astonish you with parlor tricks. It is a trap. I stay away from it...far away
Katharine Otto Added Aug 14, 2017 - 11:01pm
Robert,
I have a theory that the Universal Field is "life force," a component Einstein didn't factor in.  The Orientals call it "qi."  
Robert Wendell Added Aug 15, 2017 - 12:19am
It is the source of life and is infinitely intelligent. Qi emanates from It. The Indians call it prana. The idea that transcendence opens you to invading spirits is born of total ignorance of what it actually is. It repels evil of all kinds from those who experience it. It is both no thought and complete fullness of intelligence. Just as a drawn bow has only great potential before releasing it to act, transcendence is the fullness of potential without anything yet manifest, including energy and life force.
opher goodwin Added Aug 15, 2017 - 4:51am
Katharine/Robert - it's a nice theory. I'd like to believe it's true.
Eileen de Bruin Added Aug 15, 2017 - 8:26am
Robert Wendell, no I am not talking about transcendence, I am talking about nothing like that.
 
It is purely a practical exercise, which anybody can do, which challenges us to look at something without defining it.
 
It is allowing no thing to be decked with our views on it. It is looking and seeing and nothing else full stop.
Eileen de Bruin Added Aug 15, 2017 - 8:28am
Opher, why should there be a just universe? As in, everything is just, as in as it should be just or do you mean something else?
 
Why shouldn't there be?
opher goodwin Added Aug 15, 2017 - 7:15pm
Eileen - I would like to believe there is a just universe but I am not convinced there is. I do not believe the universe cares for us or anything else. It just is.
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 15, 2017 - 7:33pm
s. I do not believe the universe cares for us or anything else. It just is.
Opher, how I'd it you breathe oxygen and cannot see that it is a gift from someone who cares?
When you give your grandchildren things do you say, " it just it just is; I care nothing for you"?
Eileen de Bruin Added Aug 16, 2017 - 2:21am
Opher, that is interesting. To be "just" must imply good or positive to you then?
 
If it is not just, then is it by default unjust? What does unjust mean to you?
 
Or is it both just and unjust?  
 
Or is it none of those?
opher goodwin Added Aug 16, 2017 - 6:42pm
Dannl - oxygen is a biproduct from plants.
opher goodwin Added Aug 16, 2017 - 6:44pm
Eileen. I would love to think there is some benevolent, conscious force at work in the universe. I don't think there is. I think the universe is the result of random chance. It is neither just nor unjust. It just is. We should relish its wonders.
Dannl Yoder Added Aug 16, 2017 - 6:45pm
So plants care about you too!;)
opher goodwin Added Aug 16, 2017 - 6:53pm
Dannl - I would like to believe that but it would not be true.
Wick Burner Added Aug 18, 2017 - 10:20am
Thanks all for continued utilisation of this space for banter and exchange of words.
@opher goodwin, momentary absence of gravity is just one half of the old equal and opposite.  Proof! ;-)
@Katharine Otto, I admit I am ignorant of that series, your description inspires me to look it up.  Thanks.
@Eileen de Bruin, thank you.  Ponder on, indeed.
The rest of you, behave.
Eileen de Bruin Added Aug 19, 2017 - 3:04am
You are welcome Wick.
 
Katharine, the mention of getting what one focuses on, for good or ill, Seth saying to create our own realities harkens back to yogiism. As in we do indeed create our own lives.
To relate this in a practical exercise right now, if you choose any object, say an elephant or a caulifower or a ballet dancer or a word.....at the beginning of a day, then pop it into your mind having focused on it for a while, see what happens during the day.
It is said that what we seek we shall find.
 
Opher, plants and trees are everything that we need to live on the planet. They have energy fields just like we do and everything else. We are all part of the whole and entirely connected and we, especially, are dependent on the natural world.  That is a huge something.
 
To be or not to be eh?  Nothing like it Wick! Great thread.
 
 

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