White Supremacists

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My parents suffered under German Nazism
 
White supremacists told my parents they were subhuman, just mules and pigs.
 
My parents were enslaved for years and saw their family and friends slaughtered.
 
My family spent 6 years in a refugee camp in Germany waiting for America to allow us in.
 
We were told that America would be different.  
 
We were told that in America we wouldn't have to fear Nazism.
 
I want to believe this again.

Comments

Dino Manalis Added Aug 14, 2017 - 9:28am
Hate breeds more hatred, that's why we should promote peace; understanding; and brotherhood to start healing wounds!
john guzlowski Added Aug 14, 2017 - 9:46am
Yes. 
 
How?
 
most of these white Supremacists are Christian.
 
how do you get christians to be good people? 
 
If they won't listen to Jesus, they won't listen to me and you. 
Thomas Sutrina Added Aug 14, 2017 - 9:55am
First of all the media has chosen to present a skewed view of the violence in this country.   Saturday the white supremacy group had a license to march.  I do not know if the opponents had a license also.  The riot broke out when BOTH SIDED GOT VIOLENT.  But the media only presents that the white supremacy group was violent.   one hand clapping does not make a sound.   it takes TWO.
 
The media has not accurately presented the riots on campuses around the country against free speech that they did not like.  The dress of the leading rioters is black with almost a uniform feel since many have exactly the same cloth.  Are they hired rioters?  They destroyed property the second hand needed to make a sound of clapping.   
 
Dino Manalis  so who are the haters?  Not the people you disagree with on politics but those that hate and form a mob.  The person in the car was a hater but we had ONE CAR not a mob of cars.   There are always individuals that can be convinced to act.  that is what ISIS is counting on.  Finding those few haters.
 
President Trump condemned both sides equally, and the additional comments said the people the media is complaining about are included.  The original statement stands.   That is in contrast to President Obama on multiple occasions condemning one side when two sides like the protest march above.   Obama refused to call out the rioters like those against free speech on campuses and refused to call ISIS and other islamic groups terrorist.  They are terrorist because of their actions or the actions they promote.  They kill people.
 
The solution and the reason for the first amendment is MORE SPEECH NOT LESS.    So disagree with the white supremacist but do it in words.   That is the difference between Nazi Germany and the USA. 
john guzlowski Added Aug 14, 2017 - 10:32am
Thomas, who did the anti white supremacist Nazis kill?
 
 
Dave Volek Added Aug 14, 2017 - 10:33am
John:
One thing different about America today and Nazi Germany is that both sides have a "fair fight." We can argue for a long time whether the anti-racist demonstrators were doing the right thing or not , but they had a choice to participate in the way that they did. Under Nazism, they  would have suffered a lot of persecution for their actions.
 
And from what I'm gleaning from the media, the white supremacists groups were not all that local. They are still a small fraction of the population and no where near as big of a social movement as the Nazis. There are all sorts of voices to drown the racists out or make them appear to be fools.
 
And remember that the Nazis suspended their parliament and constitution in 1933--and gave themselves almost unlimited political power. I don't see any danger of that happening in the US.
 
In other words, I think you are overreacting. If anything good happens from this incident, it will help America recognize the bad parts of its history--and it is time to stop glorifying the confederate south. I can see a lot more confederate statues coming down in the next few years.
 
Thomas:
We had an interesting documentary in Canada about the America white supremacists. They are clearly supporting Mr. Trump politically. And it seems Mr. Trump is scared of losing them as part of his base. From the newscasts I saw, it seems the governor of Virginia and mayor of Charlottesville do not want the supremacists' votes.
 
I'm not too sure of how and when Obama couldn't call out ISIS and Al-Qaeda for what they really are. For sure, he did not recognize the khalifate in any way. I think you are making this Obama's position up.  Maybe you should clarify yourself.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
john guzlowski Added Aug 14, 2017 - 10:33am
The right to freedom of speech was denied by the Nazi lover.
 
He shut her up.  
john guzlowski Added Aug 14, 2017 - 10:43am
Dave, I'm over reacting?
 
My father spent 5 years in Buchenwald. 
 
My mother was raped repeatedly by German soldiers in exchange for food. 
 
How am I supposed to act when an hour drive from my house Nazis are walking thru the streets with guns and a woman is killed?
 
3 doors away from my house a neighbor put a confederate flag and a KKK symbol on his lawn. 
 
That's my America 
 
 
Bill H. Added Aug 14, 2017 - 12:47pm
 
Trump was very careful not to alienate part of his voter base during his Charlottesville speech, as he knew quite well they were watching.
Here is a comment on his remarks directly from a white supremacist web site: 
 “Trump comments were good. He didn’t attack us. He just said the nation should come together. Nothing specific against us. … No condemnation at all. When asked to condemn, he just walked out of the room. Really, really good. God bless him.” — Daily Stormer, a white supremacist website promoting the Charlottesville demonstration as part of its Summer of Hate edition.
During his campaign he refused to disavow the support of former KKK leader David Duke. Trump certainly shows his prejudices and actually seems quite proud to do so. He is supposed to talk again about the Charlottesville incident sometime today. I suspect that will all of the negative comments on his last failed attempt at a "unifying speech", he will listen to even what the majority of his own party thought about it and try to be a bit more unifying. (can Trump be unifying at all?)
john guzlowski Added Aug 14, 2017 - 1:09pm
Trump has been receiving support from Nazis since the start.  
 
Here's a link to the Southern Poverty Law Center's page on the connections between Trump and his advisors and the Nazis.
 
https://www.splcenter.org/news/2017/01/26/trump-team
john guzlowski Added Aug 14, 2017 - 1:51pm
Trump finally came out and spoke out against White Supremacists, Nazis, etc.
 
Took him 48 hours.
 
WTF
John G Added Aug 14, 2017 - 2:25pm
JG The world doesn't revolve around you.
opher goodwin Added Aug 14, 2017 - 2:42pm
John G - the world revolves around all of us. We are all equally important. The fact that people are starting to feel afraid again because of a bunch of Nazis is an indictment of the USA. A society is only as good as how it treats its minorities, its weakest and those in need.
Trump has caused such division and hatred and has emboldened the worst elements of society. It is tragic.
opher goodwin Added Aug 14, 2017 - 2:43pm
Dino - you are right - hatred breeds hatred. Trump stirred up that hate in his campaign. Now it is coming out.
opher goodwin Added Aug 14, 2017 - 2:46pm
Thomas - when people walk through cities wearing swastikas and doing Nazi salutes, supporting vile supremacist doctrines and spreading hatred, they need opposing. It wasn't the protestors who drove into the fascists.
opher goodwin Added Aug 14, 2017 - 2:49pm
John - you're not overreacting. These people need opposing. We fought a world war to rid ourselves of these scum.
John G Added Aug 14, 2017 - 2:49pm
Goodwin The Nazis are a fringe group. Islamophobic 'humanitarian interventionists' like you are a bigger danger imo.
Your liberal heroes don't shy from cuddling up to Nazis when it suits
 Like Ukraine.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Aug 14, 2017 - 3:10pm
Opher
 
Your liberal heroes don't shy from cuddling up to Nazis when it suits
 Like Ukraine.
 
John's got a good point there. But again: It's not about categories, drawers or -isms. They're simply used to cover economic and strategic interests.
Leroy Added Aug 14, 2017 - 3:32pm
The white supremacists come from the left.  There seems to be an attempt to smear the right, but this is not true.  They tend to identify with the NAZIs.  The NAZIs were socialists; i.e., from the left side of the political spectrum.  The fascist antifa group are brothers in kind with the NAZIs.
Thomas Sutrina Added Aug 14, 2017 - 3:34pm
I am in the same camp as John Adams that defended loyalist. I may disagree with there opinions, but I defend there right to peacefully speak.  Not one reporter has pointed out which group as a group attacked the other first.  Not one, simply because it didn't happen as a organized attack.
John you tell me who the white supremacist as an organized mob killed in America? Individuals have committed crime but you can find ministers of churchs and politicians, and policeman that have committed crimes.  Present RECO type crimes attached to white supremacist in America?
Nazis organization ended in 1945. World wide they have not been reborn doing anything of consequence.  Where are today's Nazis? We are talking about today also.
Opher Goodwin, we have free speech so people can burn that flag and wear swastikas (which have a history of uses by other societies many centuries before Hitler) and do the Nazi salute. So long as they do not break the law they are free to do that. Which includes get a permit to rally in Charlottesville VA. They are not responsible for the anti-protesters actions and they have a right to defend themselves, also the law.
Freedom is speech, title political correctness is denied by universities mostly run by Democrat voting and funding Modern Liberals. The governments in there communities deny free speech by not arresting the mob that destroy property. That has occurred in many riots during Obama's term of office. Thus Obama denies free Speech. 
Dave Volek the white supremacist would have supported an orange juice can over Hillary Clinton. Trump got a lot of support from bizar groups. So what.  Made insignificant effect on the election results.
Obama supported Iran nuclear program and the Islamic Brother Hoods in the Middle East. He help depose the people that resisted radical Islam and supported those that wanted radial Islam during the Arab Spring. His political position is crystal clear.
Bill H., Trump was not talking to the Daily Stormer. He was talking to the Citizens of the nation.  He disapproved of both groups and since we have no Idea how or who started the fighting then he has no reason to choose one over the other.  
Obama approved of the riots for the most part. Quit a contrast. He is unique in his stand. Even Bill Clinton was not that stupid.
 
Bill H. Added Aug 14, 2017 - 3:37pm
Trump's voter base is easily swayed by what he says and does. As I have stated before, if Trump suggested that all puppies and kittens should be killed, many in his voter base would take up the cause, just as if Trump shows any indication that being a white supremacist, Nazi, or a klansman is somehow cool or even OK in his eyes, then many of his voters would even sympathize with these groups, or even join them.
Thank goodness he had at least enough sense to realize his mistake and do the right thing, although I am sure he did it due to intense pressure from most of the other Republican representatives.
Leroy Added Aug 14, 2017 - 3:45pm
"... if Trump suggested that all puppies and kittens should be killed, many in his voter base would take up the cause...
 
And if he said all innocent animals should be protected, all they liberals would be up in arms, slaughtering every puppy and kitten they could find.
John Minehan Added Aug 14, 2017 - 4:11pm
"We were told that America would be different."
 
Human beings are never "different," especially when they are afraid.   
John G Added Aug 14, 2017 - 4:38pm
The fascists want people to believe that the Nazis were socialists. It is an absurd claim. The Nazis were virulently anti socialist.
John Minehan Added Aug 14, 2017 - 4:46pm
"The fascists want people to believe that the Nazis were socialists. It is an absurd claim. The Nazis were virulently anti socialist."
 
Well, certainly "virulently anti-Communist."  They came, in large measure, out of the opposition to Communist groups who tried to seize power in Germany after the Armistice, the "Spartacist Uprising."  (They were arguably one of the more minor groups of Freikorps.)
 
They were in the comparative mainstream of German politics in believing in more Government control of the economy than would be acceptable in the US, now and especially in the 1920s.  
opher goodwin Added Aug 14, 2017 - 5:00pm
Leroy - Nazis were never left-wing socialists. They were right-wing from the beginning. They adopted the socialist tag as a smokescreen. There was nothing left-wing about anything they did or stood for. White supremacists are as far-right as you can get. They are scum.
opher goodwin Added Aug 14, 2017 - 5:01pm
Thomas - free speech and hate speech are two different things.
Thomas Sutrina Added Aug 14, 2017 - 5:01pm
Both socialist and fascist and let me include monarchist, statist, Roman principate, Islam, etc. all share one belief that man is capable of making laws and that there are master minds that know the will of the people and have autonomy, be it one person or a group.   The results is the same, tyranny.
opher goodwin Added Aug 14, 2017 - 5:02pm
Thomas - you would justify driving a car into a crowd of people?
So it was alright when the Islamic nutjobs did just that?
Anyone who condones violence is an ass.
opher goodwin Added Aug 14, 2017 - 5:03pm
I'm a liberal Leroy and I wouldn't kill kittens and puppies whatever Trump says. That's just weird.
opher goodwin Added Aug 14, 2017 - 5:06pm
Bill/Leroy - there is psychology at work - when the leader of a group sets a tone many people follow. Trump set a tone of hatred and division. He thus condoned the right-wing hate groups and emboldened them. He altered the tone of America.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 14, 2017 - 5:07pm
Thomas the Sutrino sez: The person in the car was a hater but we had ONE CAR not a mob of cars.   There are always individuals that can be convinced to act.  that is what ISIS is counting on.  Finding those few haters.-Ah...So now ISIS is subcontracting to nazis and the alt right?...Domestic Terrorist as much as one SIMILAR in France or UK. No "illegal" immigrants involved.  Gee.  How is This possible in Trump's America?-that Bright, Shining, taped-off Crime Scene on a Hill...
Jeff Michka Added Aug 14, 2017 - 5:09pm
Leroy, the human, disposab;e plastic bag sez: And if he said all innocent animals should be protected, all they liberals would be up in arms, slaughtering every puppy and kitten they could find.-And you'd point the way?
Doug Plumb Added Aug 14, 2017 - 6:17pm
The Muslim extremists just want to cut your head off or enslave you. Islam is not like Christianity. You should be afraid of the people that understand the problem of the Muslim and are trying to stop it. They are arming up and training their youg to kill you. TV tells you otherwise.
Doug Plumb Added Aug 14, 2017 - 6:19pm
Learn something other than what you read on mainstream/corporate media. Its always good to really understand the material you write about.
opher goodwin Added Aug 14, 2017 - 6:23pm
Doug - Muslim fanatics are as bad as Christian fanatics. They are both obnoxious. Any religious nut who believes in doctrines from thousands of years ago and takes the teachings of nomadic tribes seriously and literally needs their heads testing.
Doug Plumb Added Aug 14, 2017 - 6:23pm
re "Both socialist and fascist and let me include monarchist, statist, Roman principate, Islam, etc. all share one belief that man is capable of making laws and that there are master minds that know the will of the people and have autonomy, be it one person or a group.   The results is the same, tyranny.  "
 
That is exactly it. Thomas, did you watch my movie "Dialectic" on youtube?
opher goodwin Added Aug 14, 2017 - 6:29pm
Doug - read the UN Charter of Human Rights. We're more capable of making laws than Arab nomads thousands of years ago.
Leroy Added Aug 14, 2017 - 7:36pm
"Trump set a tone of hatred and division. He thus condoned the right-wing hate groups and emboldened them. He altered the tone of America."
 
You're are not correct, Opher.  Trump condemned the National Socialism in the strongest terms.  The tone of hate was established by his predecessor who refuses the accept the democratically elected President.  It is people like WSU who protest everything Trump does.  When O revealed his antisemitism, it became ok for his followers to imitate him.  It wasn't until O that antisemitism became fashionable.  Just ask John G.
Thomas Sutrina Added Aug 14, 2017 - 8:22pm
Opher Goodwin, FREE SPEECH, is not and action defined as homicide which is murder by car. It is alright to stand on a soap box ans speak. So what did Trump say before the march in Charlottesville NOTHING. Your correct in that someone set the tone. It was the public officials of Charlottesville that when the fighting directed the police to left the scene. THE POLICE ALSO MOVE ONE GROUP TOWARDS THE OPPOSITE GROUP. That Opher Goodwin really sets the scene for the violence that happened. So one of those groups that Trump condemed should include the public officials of Charlottesville.
The policy of Rudy Giuliani when he became mayor the riots that occurred during the previous administration ended quickly when it became know that the police would arrest anyone committing a crime. If your throw a rock at for example the Charlottesville riots you will get arrested. And if the person behind you throws a rock they will get arrested.
Opher Goodwin, it works.
No Doug Plumb, I wrote about master minds because my reading and listening library is resonable size and I have been at it for a few years, "master minds that know the will of the people and have autonomy, be it one person or a group. The results is the same, tyranny."
.
Leroy, I agree with you. What came first? Isis over ran the areas of Iraq that Obama left and defended by troops that left their (our) weapons on the field and ran. Or the start of the 2016 campaign and Trump saying he is a candidate? The heads started rolling very shortly after the take over of the area.
john guzlowski Added Aug 14, 2017 - 8:36pm
Leroy, the fascists in America don't come from the left. 
 
Do some homework. 
 
 
john guzlowski Added Aug 14, 2017 - 8:52pm
John G, the world revolves around Trump and he's a fool. 
 
All we can hope for is that he and his fascist advisors implode into a black hole of confusion. 
john guzlowski Added Aug 14, 2017 - 9:00pm
Doug, the majority of people killed by terrorists in this country have been killed by white Christian terrorists. 
 
 
john guzlowski Added Aug 14, 2017 - 9:02pm
300 violent attacks by far right attacks every year in America
 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/bb/u-s-sees-300-violent-attacks-inspired-far-right-every-year
wsucram15 Added Aug 15, 2017 - 1:34am
The far right attacks many more people in the US than any other group.  They have committed far more crimes than that as well to fund themselves.
Everyone suffers under suppression that continues under the name of supremacy.
opher goodwin Added Aug 15, 2017 - 3:57am
John - you opened up a debate here. Unfortunately many of the far-right persuasion can't debate or refuse to accept the facts.
Thomas - I did not suggest Trump spoke before Charlottesville to stir things up. His Presidential campaign is what I was referring to. I saw the footage where he was encouraging his baying supporters to beat up protestors, making threats, coming out with racist statements, using division of race as a tool to divide, using Islam and Mexicans as scapegoats. When you set such a low tone you give encouragement to the right-wing minority scum to come out of the woodwork - as we've seen.
I lead a school. I know how important a leader in to set the tone of an establishment. That's why sports teams change managers regularly. Trump sets a tone of loutish arrogance.
Wsu - you are right. The Ku Klux Klan and white supremacists are an evil bunch of hypocritical scum hiding behind psuedochristianity to do their nastiness.
john guzlowski Added Aug 15, 2017 - 6:29am
Dannl, the FBI includes Mexicans in the black murder stats. 
Thomas Sutrina Added Aug 15, 2017 - 8:18am
Opher, I asked you to tell me about Trump inciting violence before the Charlottesville event.  And you pointed to his campaign.  So I think we need the full story of why he did that,  "Democrats have used trained provocateurs to instigate violence at Republican events nationwide throughout the 2016 election cycle, including at several Donald Trump rallies, using a tactic called “bird-dogging,” according to a new video investigation released Monday by James O’Keefe’s Project Veritas.".  http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/10/17/exclusive-okeefe-video-sting-exposes-bird-dogging-democrats-effort-to-incite-violence-at-trump-rallies/
John Minehan Added Aug 15, 2017 - 9:07am
"They have committed far more crimes than that as well to fund themselves."
 
See, e.g., The Order (AKA "Brüder Schweigen"). 
Dave Volek Added Aug 15, 2017 - 9:30am
John:
I acknowledge your family's history and the losses it incurred during the holocaust. And yes, we should not go down this path again.
 
While America has its problems, America today is no where near Nazi-Germany is in the 1930s. There are social and political forces that will keep the neo-Nazis an insignificant force. They are not running the show in any way. If they do too much "brown-shirt" activity, eventually the police will find them and put them in jail. 
 
Yes, we need to watch them closely--and let them know they are being watched. But we are in no danger of them running the government.
 
Thomas:
First off, I suspect that the neo-Nazis and their various shades of grey number less than 1,000,000 people. They are not enough to affect the electoral results. And we should acknowledge that Mr. Trump got most of his support from outside that group.
 
Second, I doubt the neo-Nazis participated much in previous elections. To say that they would have voted for an orange juice can had the Republicans put up that entity up for presidential nomination is stretching things. Remember 50% of Americans feel so alienated from the democratic process that they don't bother to vote. The Election 2016 was probably the first time the neo-Nazis had anyone of their liking.
 
Obama inherited a mess from the previous administration. America only upset a stable social/political order in Iraq  and created something worse. And it did so with the flimsiest of reasons.
 
Trying to pick the right side in many of these mid-East contests is a challenge for any world leader. Republicans have yet to prove that they are better than the Democrats.  Please stop spinning the Republicans are great at this task, then lay all the blame on the Democrats.
 
john guzlowski Added Aug 15, 2017 - 9:43am
Dannl, some black people support the white Supremacists. I saw a couple on Fox News and one on CNN.  
 
It's a mystery to me as great as how educated Americans can be neo Nazis, anti Semites, white Supremacists.
Thomas Sutrina Added Aug 15, 2017 - 2:35pm
David V., the Neo-Nazis, Semites, and white Supremacist would support an orange juice can instead of Hillary Clinton.  But why would they support Trump?   They are against Jews and Trump's daughter converted to and the son-in-law is Jewish.    Does not make sense that they would support Trump and more then Clinton.  So they supported the GOP approach over the Dem approach.
john guzlowski Added Aug 15, 2017 - 2:38pm
David V., don't be naive.  
 
Trump's a businessman, a seller.  He knows how to put lipstick on a pig.
So he has a Jewish son in law, so that gives him license to continue being as outrageously nazistic as he wants.  
Look at the stuff his daughter posts on twitter, it's like she thinks her dad is St. Francis of Assisi.  
It's all BS.
There's no compassion in Trump, no human feeling.  Nazi to the core.
Mike Haluska Added Aug 15, 2017 - 3:07pm
Bill H - your allegation:
 
"Trump's voter base is easily swayed by what he says and does. As I have stated before, if Trump suggested that all puppies and kittens should be killed, many in his voter base would take up the cause, just as if Trump shows any indication that being a white supremacist, Nazi, or a klansman is somehow cool or even OK in his eyes, then many of his voters would even sympathize with these groups, or even join them.
 
is so offensive and repeatedly proved stupidly wrong I will simply let people read my other previous responses to your same old "re-paste" of a hypocrite who claims to fight prejudice by practicing it. 
 
You need to get off your East Coast Liberal ass and actually look around and see what decades of liberal/"Progressive" policies have done to the people you dumb-asses claim to support.  Take a tour of Gary, Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, Milwaukee, St Louis, Houston, Oakland and hundreds of other "Fly-Over State" towns and cities and witness the destruction the Welfare State combined with Social Engineering and anti-Capitalism has wrought.
 
You think "Trump's Voter Base" upset your Liberal Apple Cart last November - wait until 2018 when we purge another swath of left wing parasites out of office!  I can't wait until Democrats try and convince  liberated (economically and socially) minorities and poor who now have  real jobs thanks to President Trump that they should "go back to the Welfare State Plantation" where they belong and vote Democrat!!! 
Mike Haluska Added Aug 15, 2017 - 3:16pm
And by the way John Guz, all that name-calling does is prove your own ignorance and inability to find a legitimate answer.  The old days when honest, moral people would cower from fear that "Progressives" will label them "Nazi's" or "Fascists" is FRAKKIN' OVER.  It isn't working - and all you are accomplishing is getting more of us involved in the political process in the 2018 election. 
 
You would think that with a 100 year low National Participation Rate of 22%, the governor of Virginia switching to Republican Party, no sane, common sense Democrat leaders remaining, Republicans holding 36 state governorships, 3/4 of State & Local Legislatures, soon 8 out of Supreme Court Justices, you IDIOTS would think it may be time to kick the "Progressive Wing" the hell out of your party before you're irrelevant???  But NO - keep propping these clowns up because they have done SO MUCH for your party!!!!
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Aug 15, 2017 - 3:24pm
Mike
 
I hope that you guys can help ending that PC and identity killing shit over there so it will catch on here in Europe as well. We're starting the same shit here, remember the toilet unisex stuff and the n genders ?
 
This all is going too far. And the rest of the world only shakes head about our Western stupidity.
Leroy Added Aug 15, 2017 - 3:25pm
"Leroy, the fascists in America don't come from the left."
 
Fascists always come from the left.  It always leads to the same result.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Aug 15, 2017 - 3:26pm
BTW: 30 years ago I was a hard leftist here in Europe. But what today is called "left" is a bad joke. It's a bunch of people who have lost any sense of orientation.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Aug 15, 2017 - 4:35pm
Why do I have the impression that today's white population is made responsible for the errors and crimes of their ancestors all over the world ? PC. This does not lead to a new era of togetherness but to a level of frustration of the young white generations which can lead to a (planned ?) destabilization of today's Western societies. Today's American people are as much responsible for Indian slaughter and slavery as German people today are responsible for the holocaust ? Think about it.
Mike Haluska Added Aug 15, 2017 - 4:52pm
Stone Eater -
 
Thanks for the encouraging words.  I work at a large utility company as an engineer.  We have a large Flat Screen TV in the lobby always tuned to CNN and you would be amazed how many people watch briefly, shake their heads and turn away in disgust over the media's nonsense.
 
I do believe that the stranglehold the Left has had on public opinion has been broken by outlets like Fox News and conservative radio and tv programs on other "non-mainstream media stations.  The best thing to happen regarding the mainstream media during the past election is Trump having the courage and fortitude to call out the mainstream media.  Their blatant bias and endorsement and support of Hillary Clinton became so obvious that they just started openly admitting it.
 
The mainstream media isn't even giving any pretense to being objective journalists - they hate Trump for exposing their game and make it well-known.  Not even Saul Alinsky could save their sorry asses now!    
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Aug 15, 2017 - 5:22pm
Mike
 
I'm sorry but Trump can't survive in that post. He's a businessman who thinks that business is the best way to do. And he's right. But the powers behind him are stronger, as we see. And he's not able to outsmart them so far - he gets sucked in by them.
 
Too bad. He reminds me of JFK somewhat, but less intelligent. I hope for the sake of the world that he can beat those MIC bastards somehow.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Aug 15, 2017 - 5:27pm
BTW: How the hell can the mainstream media be stopped ? They act a lot more clever than Breitbart or Fox. They make an impression of being COMPETENT and avoid personal attacks. They appear "worldly", no matter what bullshit they spread.
 
I mean: Who started the battle against Russia ? The Bitch and her addicts.
 
Here in Europe we have Der Spiegel and BILD Zeitung who do the same - but since our people are less informed about the US a headline is sufficient.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 15, 2017 - 6:07pm
SEFa laments: I mean: Who started the battle against Russia ? The Bitch and her addicts.- Well, I'LL SAY IT AGAIN FOR YOUR BENEFIT, SEFa:  Clinton is not going to be appointed president or start WWIII (once again, to what advantage?)with Russia, throwing nukes over sanctions on Alpha bank.  I  realize you've bought into the "Deep State" conspiracy theory, as peddled here on WB, but save the dislike for the people that keep talking about it here, but can't produce a single name or other "factual." about it, but get real angry when it's questioned.  Yeah, American Foreign policy is the product of what smells like dead goats, deserving derision and comment, but don't blow yer self up over Clinton, non sequitor.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 15, 2017 - 6:14pm
SEFa spouts: PC and identity killing shit over there so it will catch on here in Europe as well.-Ah, yeah that's it....we need more tears shed over the failing identity of all "those good white people."  Who need to kill people that don"defend" their "identity."  What will happen to those "good white Germans" right over your border?  (Envisions swarms of Germans running into walls because they can no longer see their identity.)  Let all those good frau breed with immigrants, and then we can await the next gen. not caring about "white identity."  You always want a Europe free of American policy, but WANT its social divisions?  End justifies means, huh?
Jeff Jackson Added Aug 15, 2017 - 6:21pm
Both the left and the right have the constitutional right to publicly express their opinions. This right, constitutionally guaranteed, includes the KKK as well as Black Lives Matter. It appears that some of the people came with shields and sticks, prepared for violence. Violence is not free speech, it is not protected. I'm not for these people, but one must remember that they, along with everyone else, have the right to express their views. The KKK and the white supremacists are a long way from exerting any power, and are seen for what they are, a right-wing fringe group. The more publicity they are given, the more they like it; why else did they want to stir up a conflict so the media would give them attention?
Personally, I would be more afraid of the people who insist that the crimes of Nazi Germany never happened, rather than afraid of a bunch of whack jobs who cannot hardly get anyone who follows them on the ballot of even local elections. They are delightful of all of the attention that you are giving them. They love being talked about, and you all are giving them what they want. I would not be surprised if they offer their thanks to all the publicity you're giving them. The only worse than being talked about is not being talked about.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 15, 2017 - 6:33pm
Jeff Jackson duly notes: I would be more afraid of the people who insist that the crimes of Nazi Germany never happened, rather than afraid of a bunch of whack jobs who cannot hardly get anyone who follows them on the ballot of even local elections.-Then be concerned about those nazis and white supremacists we got right here on WB that believe "the good white Germans" get a bum wrap AND run for office, inept as they appear, Billy the Nazi ran for Gov of Arkansas, but would need the coat worn by Mel Brooks in "Blazing Saddles" with GOV in huge letters on the back.  And: I would not be surprised if they offer their thanks to all the publicity.  I'm sure you're right.  Look,  even SEFa wants too import the movement to Switzerland.  LOL
Jeff Michka Added Aug 15, 2017 - 6:40pm
opher goodwin sez: you opened up a debate here. Unfortunately many of the far-right persuasion can't debate or refuse to accept the facts.- Until 9/11, it was "good white people" that killed those folks in Oklahoma City.  Domestic terrorism has gotten a policy pass for years.  It's more fun to whip up idiots like Doug Plumb and others, screaming about Muslims, but unable to see their own shadows in terrorism if the terrorists are "good white people."
opher goodwin Added Aug 15, 2017 - 7:08pm
Jeff - I agree. Terrorism is mainly homegrown and the white supremacists have killed many more than anybody else.
opher goodwin Added Aug 15, 2017 - 7:09pm
Jeff J - I agree to an extent - but fascists need confronting. I'm all in favour of free speech but not hate speech. There's a balance.
mark henry smith Added Aug 15, 2017 - 7:20pm
I don't like agreeing with Mike because it feels irrational to do so, but I believe he's right when he says this movement of  groups who resent the liberal changes in American society and the world is becoming more aggressive and entrenched, is accurate. This is not a passing fad that we can ignore and the reason is that these alienated individuals do have valid questions that deserve answers.
 
Nazis will never get much play here, and from what I've heard they weren't really part of the reason for the demonstration, just looking for an excuse to start something. We can expect this kind of confrontation to happen with more and more regularity.
 
Be prepared. What happened shows the extent to which some people will go to release their demons and kill others. 
John G Added Aug 15, 2017 - 7:20pm
Goodwin I'm all in favour of free speech but not hate speech.
Except when its against muslims, eh Opher?
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Aug 15, 2017 - 8:01pm
Jeff
 
I  realize you've bought into the "Deep State" conspiracy theory
 
Get me a link that debunks that "conspiracy theory", then I can weigh what I find more logical.
John G Added Aug 15, 2017 - 8:11pm
Nazis are the stormtroopers of the establishment. They are anti-revolutionaries. That's what fascism is.
The left thinking population will always outnumber them but the left never organises and is easy prey for the better organised and monied establishment forces.
The establishment has infiltrated all the traditional centres of labour organisation in the unions, the 'labour' parties and universities and the independent left media is all but shut down now.
 
 
Bill H. Added Aug 15, 2017 - 9:39pm
And of course Trump was feeling guilty that he let down a portion of his voter base with his second (forced) attempt at making amends with the majority of Americans who are against Nazi and White Power groups, so he had to come out once more today and really mess things up with another off the cuff rant, again showing his true colors this time.
It will be interesting to see if he plummets to the 30% or less support level over the next week.
So, Haluska - I'm guessing you either support or sympathize with the Nazi and/or White Power groups that Trump seems to respect so much? 
opher goodwin Added Aug 16, 2017 - 5:01am
John G - I never use hate speech. I criticise things that I perceive are wrong. I do not single out Muslims. I criticise all religion. But I do not like mistreatment of women or children.
Barath Nagarajan Added Aug 16, 2017 - 7:11am
Opher:
   You want to punish speech in a public forum on public issues on the basis of content. There is a content neutrality rule. The illegal action can be punished under the criminal statutes, but I thought the content of speech was protected. Why do you want to go after the speech? I don't think there is a "hate speech" exception to the first amendment without incitement, intent and advocacy of law violation, though assault with a motor vehicle is punishable.
    Lots of people have threatened me lots of times illegally. The Law can't be enforced invidiously. There is also a "captive audience rule", detestable speech can be avoided.
Mike Haluska Added Aug 16, 2017 - 9:47am
Bill H - your stupid, uninformed, repetitious comment: 
 
"So, Haluska - I'm guessing you either support or sympathize with the Nazi and/or White Power groups that Trump seems to respect so much?  "
 
is just more of the same old Saul Alinsky bating that doesn't work anymore.  President Trump NEVER said he supported ANY such groups but you Frakkin' morons on the left have your ears plugged and hate-filter on maximum whenever he speaks.
 
I have a challenge for you that I know your smug, narcissist, pseudo-intellectual ass will run for cover from:
 
Find me ONE statement that President Trump made endorsing, supporting, rationalizing Nazism, Fascism, hatred, racism, etc. 
 
All you assholes can do is take the period of time from when President Trump IMMEDIATELY condemned ALL OF THE GROUPS INVOLVED (something the left can't get a grip on) to his next comment and claim that his not being on the radio/tv 24hours a day is PROOF OF HIS RACISM!
 
Do you remember President Obama saying AFTER that the racist black guy who shot the police officers in Dallas IN COLD BLOOD that we "shouldn't rush to judgment" about his GUILT??? 
"So, BILL H - I'm guessing you either support or sympathize with the Racist Black Power groups that Obama seems to respect so much?"
 
What's your smug-ass response to the above????? 
Mike Haluska Added Aug 16, 2017 - 10:00am
Something else for you President Trump haters:
 
Where is your condemnation for the professional thugs and troublemakers from the "ALT LEFT" that show up (paid for by Democratic supporters like George Soros) to disrupt and cause violence at ANY EVENT that has an opposing view to the politically correct dogma?  I can't wait to see who the "ALT LEFT" protesters were and where they were from.  $5 will get you $10 that many were from out of state since this event had a permit and known about in advance!
 
Here's the difference between us President Trump supporters and you whack-job "Progressives":  When you guys throw a "rally" NOBODY from the "ALT RIGHT" shows up to cause violence or disrupt the speakers.  We RESPECT your right to FREE SPEECH!!!  It is obvious that the same cannot be said of your side.  
 
So keep up with the insults, lecturing, pompous, self-righteous, hypocritical talk and action.  The only people buying it are the "Progressives" in their Echo Chamber!  The people you are trying to lump in with hate mongers REALLY DON'T APPRECIATE IT and they will call you out in 2018.  The Democratic Party can kiss EVERY SOUTHERN STATE GOODBYE in the next election!!!        
Mike Haluska Added Aug 16, 2017 - 10:06am
p.s. I can't wait for President Trump to run against the next likely Democratic Presidential Ticket -
 
                                Maxine Waters & Elizabeth Warren
 
Talk about a virtual "Fountain of Nonsense & Jibberish"!!!!!
wsucram15 Added Aug 16, 2017 - 10:14am
Mike..please listen to me, please.
I agreed to a degree with the President for once. I really think I might have heart failure. JK.
Its not ok to take away one history and replace it with another. They have to coexist.  It is what happened in history, it is.
In Baltimore today, they took down ALL the Confederacy statues.
I dont know how I feel about the replacement statues.
 
Now with regard to free speech...eveyone has a right to free speech.  But the town had the permits set up to keep the police in order and both sides separate-on opposite sides of town.
The ACLU and a judge stepped in and allowed the Friday night and Saturday marches to occur closer, they did not have the manpower to separate that amount of people.
 
I dont think people are arguing that WS have a right to free speech, I am not..you cant give one side free speech and not the other.
The laws in that state also allowed for 2nd amendment, but I feel in that type of situation, it should have been suspended and not used as intimidation.  No weapons should have been allowed.
I know you will disagree but those were college kids and out matched by the WS, except in number.
 Lastly, the violence is not part of a march...which is how a permit is obtained. I know this because I will only march on a permit and have obtained a few.  Once that occurs, the permit is in violation which in this case is the least of anyone's problems.
Someone died Mike..dont give me a hard time about that.  I dont care what conspiracy theories are online or excuses there are...she was killed at a high rate of speed.  No excuse for that.  None.  You are responsible for your actions behind the wheel of an automobile.
 
Ive been in a car with people attacking it in 1968 riots, its scary..but my parents didnt run over people and kill them.
 
 
Mike Haluska Added Aug 16, 2017 - 10:21am
wsucram -
 
I agree with everything you stated.  Please tell me where anything I stated is in conflict with your position.  You cannot find ONE word where I condone violence on EITHER side, much less someone killing people with a car! 
 
The "Progressives" have been on the wrong side of this argument since President Trump was running for office.  Show me ONE instance where Trump supporters dealt out ANY violence at a Democratic function.  Surely in your zeal to appear "fair and balanced" you can't ignore that fact?
wsucram15 Added Aug 16, 2017 - 10:23am
Also why are you insisting that the ALT left is paid for? Its not, I have until recently due to a foot injury been a huge part of that, including organization.
Its not paid for Mike, there are donations for buses and things like that but not paid people. 
People in this country (on both Sides Mike-I have spoke with them at town halls) are pissed off.  Trump has lost a good bit of support.  The only way the South will go anywhere is if the WS physically force them to.
Also the land is federally owned...its not independent.  So this is a problem. But I dont think some of the states will follow even if just for funding.
Mike Haluska Added Aug 16, 2017 - 10:27am
wsucarm - your statement:
 
"I know you will disagree but those were college kids and out matched by the WS, except in number."
 
is simply rationalization for the offensive behavior of those who tried to silence the voice of opposition.  At some point "college kids" have to recognize that their own actions have consequences.  If you want to confront, silence and fight with sociopaths on EITHER side, you can expect the worst to occur.
 
NOBODY would have died if the "ALT LEFT" kept to their side of barriers and not antagonized the sociopaths.  You may as well condone rattling the cage of a Bengal Tiger and then walking into the cage!
Mike Haluska Added Aug 16, 2017 - 10:36am
It still amazes me that with all of the present day problems facing Americans that the "Progressives" that want nothing more than to cause violence and revisit events that OCURRED OVER 150 YEARS AGO!  Tell me my "Progressive" friends - just how do you consider this activity "progress"???
 
You guys really need to rename (again) your movement from "Progressives" to "REGRESSIVES"
wsucram15 Added Aug 16, 2017 - 11:22am
Mike..the "progressives were on their side of the park in a pedestrian area talking.  To my understanding, NONE of the vehicles belonged there. It is like a  hangout area for the people, it is a college town.
Im not sure what you read, but this is from the people that live there.
The alt-left may have fought with the WS, but like I said, my parents drove through the riots in 68 over MLKjr..I remember that vividly. The car was bashed up, window cracked..my Dad was a cop.  But he didnt run anyone over. I want to add at this time, I think my father was most likely the largest bigot I ever met in my life.  He hated anyone not white and he and I fought constantly about that.  But he still didnt kill the black people beating the shit out of his new ford falcon or making my Mom and us kids scream.  He had a badge..come on..
 
The WS guy did kill someone.  Big difference...and you cant excuse that Mike no matter how much you rant and rave about progressives and the left.
They didnt kill anyone and that part was not on them.
 
Bill H. Added Aug 16, 2017 - 11:54am
 
Mike - Trump dug a hole for himself by simply equating the protestors to the same stature as the Nazis and White Power groups.
Believe it or not, yes there were also Republicans and "Conservatives" in the crowd that was protesting the Nazis and WP groups. These were simply US citizens who do not want the see racial hate groups rise to power in our country.
You seem to automatically classify anyone who is against racial hate groups as "friggin progressives", "alt left", or Democrats, so I am assuming this is your thought train. 
Mike Haluska Added Aug 16, 2017 - 12:14pm
wsucram -
 
Again - point out where I claimed ANYTHING you just said was wrong.  I didn't absolve either side of wrongdoing and I certainly didn't approve of the killing.  You are also assuming that EVERYONE there was a White Supremacist - not even close!  The permit for the demonstration was to protest the removal of Robert E Lee's statue.  The vast majority of those present were NOT Neo-Nazi's, White Supremacists, etc. . . . just as the vast majority of college kids were NOT violent professional protest thugs. 
 
People that live "up North" don't understand that many Southerners feel very deeply about their history and the ancestors that sacrificed their lives for their way of life - as wrong as you personally may feel about it.  When some group of "moral crusaders" decides that they want to wipe out any memorials to their past, they understandably get upset.  Now, I hope you're NOT going to interpret that statement as me supporting slavery, Nazis, Fascists, etc. 
 
Bottom line - this shit has to stop!  The "Progressives" are the instigators since President Trump was elected.  The mainstream media doesn't even pretend to be objective journalists anymore.  I personally counted 32 times the same "why hasn't President Trump denounced the White Supremacists since 2 days ago" question was asked and answered!  The mainstream media isn't interested in an honest answer, they're trying to overturn an election that they were so Frakkin' wrong about its absurd.
Mike Haluska Added Aug 16, 2017 - 12:24pm
Bill H - your allegation:
 
"Mike - Trump dug a hole for himself by simply equating the protestors to the same stature as the Nazis and White Power groups."
 
makes NO sense!  The mainstream media REFUSES to accept the answer President Trump gave immediately after - that the individuals of BOTH parties who resorted to violence are wrong and responsible.  YOU (and the left) want desperately to portray President Trump himself as a racist, xenophobe, fascist, etc.  You (and the left) are trying to tie President Trump to hate groups - read your own posts, you accuse him yourself!!!
 
Here's the bottom line.  NOTHING would have happened if the ALT LEFT didn't go to the opposition armed with baseball bats to deliberately confront the opposition demonstrators.  The difference between me and you is that you are always absolving the left of their hatred and violence towards anyone who doesn't buy their politically correct dogma.  Again - a challenge you will ignore:
 
Find me ONE instance where President Trump supporters actively sought out an opposition rally or demonstration and caused violence.  It doesn't happen because President Trump's supporters by and large actually WORK FOR A LIVING and don't give a crap about ALT LEFT bullshit!
Mike Haluska Added Aug 16, 2017 - 12:29pm
wsucram - one other thing.
 
If you're going to paint everyone at the Robert E Lee Statue protest "WS", the you better damned well paint everyone on the other side "Fascists" because they are the ones who sought out to violently confront and silence the other side. 
 
AGAIN - show me ONE instance where President Trump supporters are showing up at ALT LEFT events and causing any trouble.
John G Added Aug 16, 2017 - 5:50pm
Haluska, you are a perfect example of the irrational hatred that is coming from the right. Your speech is full of violence and unnecessary confrontation.
Is it any wonder that some on the left will take up extreme psoitions against the sort of inflammatory rhetoric and threats that you spew?
Do you have any sense of self awareness?
opher goodwin Added Aug 16, 2017 - 6:30pm
Barath - I'm not American. I don't have to abide by any American constitution. I believe incitement to hate or to violence is wrong. That is British law.
opher goodwin Added Aug 16, 2017 - 6:35pm
Nazi Fascists need opposing. Their hatred is despicable.
opher goodwin Added Aug 16, 2017 - 6:54pm
Why nor Dannl - as long as it's true.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 16, 2017 - 7:00pm
Mikey HaHaHaluska sez: AGAIN - show me ONE instance where President Trump supporters are showing up at ALT LEFT events and causing any trouble.-That's impossible, Mikey...there is no Alt left.AND Do you have any sense of self awareness?-Not even when Mikey stares into a mirror.  There's no reflection.
 

 

 

Jeff Michka Added Aug 16, 2017 - 7:02pm
You seem to automatically classify anyone who is against racial hate groups as "friggin progressives", "alt left", or Democrats, so I am assuming this is your thought train. -Any thoughts left him at the station a long time ago.
opher goodwin Added Aug 16, 2017 - 7:04pm
Jeff - I agree. They can't push me into a pigeon-hole.
Barath Nagarajan Added Aug 16, 2017 - 7:58pm
Opher:
    I wondering how you differentiate between a point of view, and what you call "hate speech". Certainly it's not just that speech you disagree with is hate speech. If you dislike the idea it's hate speech. Then we're getting into the government saying what ideas are acceptable.
John G Added Aug 17, 2017 - 2:28am

Goodwin. 


John G - I never use hate speech. I criticise things that I perceive are wrong. I do not single out Muslims. I criticise all religion. 
But you save your main condemnation and lies formuslims and muslim countries. Just like Sam Harris and that fraud Dawkins.
I bet you were a big Christopher Hitchens fan and dote on Bill Maher's every utterance too.
Racist fraud.
Barath Nagarajan Added Aug 17, 2017 - 6:50am
John G:
   Your, knowledge, your work, your life are in vain. Maybe someone else appreciates your garbage work, that's the free market. I think your full of crapola. That's okay because most people are full of their own insignificant crapola. Like scientists.
Barath Nagarajan Added Aug 17, 2017 - 6:56am
Scientists think their technology is so advanced, that they are so advanced. They're not. They're sad. The World is primitive.
Barath Nagarajan Added Aug 17, 2017 - 7:01am
Yeah John G. you the man.
Barath Nagarajan Added Aug 17, 2017 - 7:03am
They build a F-35 they think it's a great marvel. I think it's just a flying tin can. Power is in the Lord.
opher goodwin Added Aug 17, 2017 - 7:56am
John G - you talk utter garbage. Try putting forward some views instead a diatribe of abuse. You have nothing to say. Your voice is one long round of nastiness. Argue your case with reason and intelligence or shut up.
opher goodwin Added Aug 17, 2017 - 7:57am
Barath - there is something better about the technology scientists have built than all the garbage, division, racism and war that has come out of medieval religions.
Barath Nagarajan Added Aug 17, 2017 - 8:58am
Opher:
    There is more value in the Lord than all the gadgets science and technology has built; they are only tools for one who believes in the Lord.
Tamara Wilhite Added Aug 17, 2017 - 10:52am
There were perhaps 500 nazi idiots at that event, far more than that Antifa bullies. The white supremecists are few in number, despise by everyone and hold no power.
In contrast, Antifa and liberal bullies are shutting down political rallies, speaking events and attacking people in general from Berkley to Vancouver to Seattle to Middlebury. They have political support from the Democratic party, are excused and justified by many classic liberals who buy into their arguments based on empathy and fairness to justify silencing and physically attacking others, and there are hundreds of thousands of them if you count social justice program graduates trained to do exactly this.
Antifa and social justice warriors in general are a far greater threat to society than the ignorable remnant of nazis. It is social justice warriors who are getting speech censored on the internet, threatening people from Scott Adams of Dilbert fame to Sargon of Akkad (Youtuber) to Ayan Hirsi Ali physically.
It is social justice warriors, Antifa's allies, that are bullying little girls for having Japanese tea parties, bullying people on the street for their hair styles and clothing choices, teaching in schools and businesses the approved and unapproved words that usage of will result in loss of your job or justified (to liberals) assault.
Nazis don't have the power and haven't since the Democrats had them walking in mass in the 1920s for the DNC convention. Social Justice Warriors have the power and are using it. Millions of classic liberals were so scared of this fascism wrapped in warm fuzzy feelings that they voted for Trump to prevent Clinton, who endorsed the liberal bullies, from taking power.
john guzlowski Added Aug 17, 2017 - 11:04am
Dannl, you called my mother a whore!
 
You are an evil person.
 
 
john guzlowski Added Aug 17, 2017 - 11:04am
anytime someone tries to equate the two sides, i take the opportunity to remind them that of at least 372 murders that were committed by domestic extremists between 2007 and 2016, 74 percent were committed by right-wing extremists.
source: https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/documents/MurderAndExtremismInUS2016.pdf
for reference, left-wing extremists made up less than 2%. pointing out that 74% < > 2% leaves them in the position of denying math exists.
Mike Haluska Added Aug 18, 2017 - 10:38am
John Guz -
 
Your math sucks.  First of all, the ultimate "extreme" act is taking another person's life.  I'm quite sure that it doesn't make a difference in the ultimate outcome if a murder victim was killed by a Muslim, Jew, Nazi, IRA, etc.  So anyone who commits murder is an EXTREMIST! since the most "extreme" harm you can cause is death!!! 
 
- Does "Keeping an Extremist Category Scorecard" make you feel better about your particular political affiliation? 
- Does it make you feel better if your ideological opponent has a "higher murder scorecard" than yours? 
- Are you able to rationalize your own group's violence because the other side is even worse than yours? 
 
This discord will gradually turn the United States into the Middle East if it doesn't STOP!  We have a democratic republic with elections every Frakkin' 4 years.  We all agree as a "peaceful society" to peacefully transition political power (based on Rule of Law & Constitution) according to the results of the election.  There are a significant number (not all, not even a majority) of Democrats who are flat out refusing to accept the election results and want to have a "Do-Over".  It's time that these people GROW UP and accept the fact THEY LOST, compose themselves and do their best to win the election next time.
 
If the Democrat's strategy is to simply oppose every single thing the Republicans want, I have no problem with that.  Vote on the legislation and let it be known you opposed it.  But STOP with the endless accusations of "cheating" during the election, "colluding" with Russia, etc. and STOP with the endless "Symbolism Over Substance" bullshit!  
Barath Nagarajan Added Aug 18, 2017 - 11:01am
Mike:
    Johnny  Cash played Folsom Prison, the Man in Black wrote a song(Folsom Prison Blues)and he said that's not a Christian attitude.
   I never really liked Johnny Cash.
Barath Nagarajan Added Aug 18, 2017 - 11:09am
Mike:
   People that cause suffering, corruption and evil in the world should be put down and fought as the Basta Mukha.
That's justice.
Barath Nagarajan Added Aug 18, 2017 - 11:11am
Mike:
   Suffering is the ultimate evil.
Barath Nagarajan Added Aug 18, 2017 - 11:25am
Mike:
    I voted for Trump, as most people know, I take it you're a sincere conservative. 
     I'm arguing for a consistent ethical standard. Bill BuckleyJr said by definition, "Justice is the  impartial application of the law".
 
Mike Haluska Added Aug 18, 2017 - 11:40am
Barath -
 
I don't disagree with your sentiments.  What I disagree with is the claim it is the full time job of the President of the United States to "condemn" stuff!  Do you really think sociopaths, terrorists, etc. give a crap if the President (whoever he is) "condemns" them 24/7?
 
The local authorities and FBI have direct responsibility and resources to address this problem full time and report to the President.  What the mainstream media is trying to do is overturn the election by making it appear as if President Trump condones racism, violence, etc. by not talking about it exclusively.
 
Barath Nagarajan Added Aug 18, 2017 - 2:28pm
Mike:
    Generally, Presidents and often most politicians say one thing and do the opposite, so I don't mind having a President who plays traditional politics less.
I would trust him less if he said all the right things, but did the opposite. 
    It's easy to do the civil rights march from Selma to Montgomery to get votes when you don't really believe in equal rights, then drink Tennessee Whiskey while the band plays " Stand by your Man".
Mike Haluska Added Aug 18, 2017 - 4:22pm
Barath - I have been around the block a few more times than you.  And you have discovered what most people ignore at a young age - what people SAY is insignificant compared to what they DO.  Keep up your writing and analytical skills - nobody will pull the wool over your eyes!
mark henry smith Added Aug 21, 2017 - 1:28pm
I'm sorry, but Trump isn't saying anything extraordinary when he says there were good people pn both sides and bad people on both sides. What is wrong with liberals and progressives, and conservatives and Fascists, isn't that bad people populate their numbers, it's the means by which they want to institute change.
 
We just can't allow random acts of violence against people who aren't threatening violence. We can't allow non-state actors to use violence as a means of social control. We can't find any logical argument for why skin color makes anyone a better or worse person. But we do.
 
If the government truly is the enemy, then we are the enemy, because we are this government. If the economy is the enemy, then we are the enemy because it is our actions that create the economy. We hold the power in our hands to change this.
 
And Mike, even though I don't think Donald Trump is a bad person, better or worse than Hillary, his statement about who's next, Washington, Jefferson, is totally dubious. Those men were not traitors to their nation. We cannot allow the worship of traitors in the public forum plain and simple in this time of inclusion.
Mike Haluska Added Aug 22, 2017 - 4:58pm
mark - your statement:
 
"his statement about who's next, Washington, Jefferson, is totally dubious. Those men were not traitors to their nation."
 
is not equivalent.  The reason the "protesters" oppose the Confederate statues is because in their eyes the statues are a symbol of racism - not treason!  President Trump made the perfectly valid point that if the "protesters" want to abolish all statues of slaveholders, then what about George Washington and Thomas Jefferson?  They were both slaveholders - should we tear down the Washington and Jefferson monuments?
 
Mark - you have to admit that timing, scale and attention this has gotten is suspicious.  Those statues have been standing there for over a century - why is so urgent that we have to destroy them NOW!!! 
 
The Democrats are getting desperate - the "Russia-Trump Investigation" is going nowhere and starting to throw more suspicion on Obama, Hillary, Comey, Rice, Lynch, Abedin and other key Democrats than anyone in the Trump Administration.  Even the mainstream media is getting tired of covering an "investigation" where no evidence is found and nobody gets indicted!  Factor in the abysmal fund raising, having no clear party leadership, Nancy Pelosi's unpopularity and reputation as an idiot, etc. and the Democrats can only think "Bash Trump"!
 
Mike Haluska Added Aug 24, 2017 - 10:07am
Mark - I agree 100% with Dannl.  Yes, there were many abolitionists in the North before the start of the Civil War and they were spoiling for a fight to end slavery.  But the South interpreted (quite correctly - see Article 10) that there was no Constitutional basis for the Federal Government to intervene in a state issue.  
 
Even today, many Southerners call the Civil War the "War Between the States".  When push came to shove, the Southern States decided to secede from the Union - that's what set off the Civil war.  Even Lincoln said that if given a choice between ending slavery and saving the Union, he would save the Union. 
 
And when people point out how "unpopular" President Trump is, keep in mind that President Lincoln was much more unpopular until the Civil War was won.  Doing the right thing for the country initially often upsets a lot more people than it pleases. 
mark henry smith Added Aug 25, 2017 - 12:58pm
Okay, Mike, that's true that there were disagreements about the extent that the Federal Government could impinge on state rights, but when slavery was made illegal in the emancipation proclamation and became the law of the land, it was time obey the law, or at least acquiesce to the law until further arguments could play out in court.
 
And I agree that people are confused when they say the war was solely about slavery, and I further agree that there is no good reason for all of these statues to suddenly become objects of contention, except that's what they've become and we can't sit around and continue to let people gather and fight about their removal or protection. The statues just aren't that important.
 
I don't hate Trump, because I play golf and I've met lots of men like him, controlling, bombastic, willing to say anything, do anything to win. What I've seen is that most people don't choose to play golf with them, unless there's another reason. 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 26, 2017 - 6:51pm
@Leroy:
"The NAZIs were socialists; i.e., from the left side of the political spectrum."
 
Wow, that's ridiculous.  No, they were not.
John Minehan Added Sep 26, 2017 - 6:59pm
"Wow, that's ridiculous.  No, they were not."
 
Certainly weren't from the Left side of the political spectrum, but they were Statist.  Government controlled the means of production . . . but left them in private hands, rather than nationalizing them and running them for the benefit of the workers.   
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 26, 2017 - 7:23pm
@Opher Goodwin:
"I'm a liberal Leroy and I wouldn't kill kittens and puppies whatever Trump says. That's just weird."
 
Yeah, I didn't get that one, either.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 26, 2017 - 7:40pm
@John Minehan:
"Certainly weren't from the Left side of the political spectrum, but they were Statist. Government controlled the means of production . . . but left them in private hands, rather than nationalizing them and running them for the benefit of the workers."
 
I've started seeing this idea that Fascism is from the left end of the spectrum, particularly National Socialism is from the "Left."  Usually it's from Right-Wingers embarrassed by the association with Nazis.  I had a long running argument at the Skeptics Forum with such a person.
 
I think this confusion stems from the "Socialist Worker's Party" in "National Socialist German Workers' Party" (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei), which shows me the rather sad state of education in the US.  Some rather simple research shows that the roots of "National Socialism" began with nationalist, antisemitic groups formed in the German and Austro-Hungarian Empires in the late 19th and early 20th Century.  They were fringe groups for the most part but it's likely Adolf Hitler was exposed to their ideas when he lived in Vienna.  
 
I also think some of confusion extends from late 20th Century-early 21st Century US Right-Wingers myopically imposing their view of what is or isn't "Right-Wing" on societies where the definition doesn't really apply.

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