Trump Research Information Only...

My Recent Posts

In the months prior to Trumps election, I remember a writer on here saying the Trump campaign signs in New York  were everywhere and out numbered those of Clinton.  I argued Trumps popularity in NY and he did lose that state, people dont like him there.  However, I did ask around to people I know, especially in places like PA, OH, WI, VA, SC, NC,WV, TX, WA, CA where I know people.  In any event, there was a movement for Trump. But I was still shocked on November 9 at whatever time Clinton called Trump to congratulate him.  

 

In the weeks and months that followed, I personally saw in protests and eventually town halls some very upset people.  Some of the "liberals" were upset about Clinton and more so when actual totals came in.  What I did find though were really "poor losers" and even more "horrible winners".   So I wanted to find out why and that was not as simple as  winners and losers.  There has been a tension for a long time, in the last 45 years or so,  in the ugly side of  America.  The Obama administration however made that ugly side rear its head and Trump who was part of that, rode in on its fury.  I dont want to write an entire article on this so Im just leading into the research with my history on this.  I spent months and will likely spend much more time compiling my own data on the stories I have been told, what I have seen and researched, and my opinions of the situation as a whole.  I made sure that I got more data from the Trump side than any liberal source.  But I have many liberal sources.

 

At the end of the day, it is irrelevant HOW Trump got elected, he got elected.  So like probably thousands of others, I began some research on him, details on his background (historical stuff), politics and Trump supporters.  For the PEOPLE not of US descent, we actually do need your opinions and feedback.  It is relevant to us the United States much more than most of the citizens themselves realize, so hang in there.

Oh and I wanted to mention..we now have spudnick radio fm in the US..fyi, sorry I found that funny, oh and they have a liberal hour 5 days a week. 

 

This is a tiny fraction of the links (more current) about Trump and surrounding stories. Its all really interesting.

 

Here is some data for research and objective discussion.  I have some story lines that alone could be entire articles and in fact, many more I have spent a long time researching.  But I am going to give you some data and if you want to discuss the information fine.  I will be willing to do that, but unless you can refute this information with much more reliable information,(and I will check) please lets just have some civil discussions over the information I am providing you.

 

The timeline below was done by Bill Moyers staff , posted on his site but research and over time

added to by Steven Harper.  This is the most detailed timeline in the verifiable known Trump/ Russia incidents that have occurred in a very short time.

Bill Moyers for the record, served in both the Kennedy and  Johnson administrations. He is also a journalist and has worked for many major news outlets, written books and hosted documentaries on the history of American Government. 

Now Steven Harper is an attorney who battled legally with Jimmy Hoffa and because he has the research skills along with the Moyers staff can verify sources.  He stands by this data as accurate and nothing on the timeline is apparently in accurate in source.  Hes not a journalist, but is held to a standard of accuracy in ethics. 

 

Here is the link for his timeline, now we found out or heard these things at different times than on the timeline.  But they are put into the time they occurred...not when we discovered or heard the stories.

You will find some interesting (maybe) coincidences.

http://billmoyers.com/story/trump-russia-timeline/

Go down past the couple paragraphs and look at the timeline.  There to date are 425 occurrences of data about Russia.  Much you have probably never heard about.  I only have 123 on my list of stories so this  is very thorough.

Here are some things along the way, mostly newer stuff that I found interesting...

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/339411-cnn-imposing-new-rules-on-russia-stories

http://www.washingtontimes.com/quiz/2015/feb/11/us-citizenship-test-could-you-pass/#question-1

Dont cheat..they are easy

http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news/national-govt--politics/yachts-trump-financial-backer-russian-oligarch-seen-close-together/gI074W3JLqvEYrQ0hm9zlN/

Local news is by far the best source...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/14/politics/quigley-cyprus-russia-investigation/index.html

turned out so far to have some truth to it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/19/us/politics/paul-manafort-russia-trump.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/kushner-firms-285-million-deutsche-bank-loan-came-just-before-election-day/2017/06/25/984f3acc-4f88-11e7-b064-828ba60fbb98_story.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/russian-vnesheconombank-trump-toronto-hotel-2017-5

 The one above might be a big one...both in negotiations and in the scandal.

Just a few tidbits...you may or may not have some details on. Some things didn't get as much airtime as others...

 

 THIS MIGHT BE MY FAVORITE STORY OF THEM ALL..Trump tried to rip off South Carolina for the cleanup of a business he bought from his son to bail him out by lying about the purchase. I have seen the documents with the questionnaire and his signature.  Cost to SC state taxpayers - millions.  Come on they are a red state.  Now I spoke with both Lindsay Grahams and Tim Scott's office about this situation.  The first was aware and working on it and the second said they had no knowledge of the situation.   The state did not approve Trumps proposal for the state to pay for his sons mess.

See story below;

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/business/energy-environment/trump-organization-titan-environmental-cleanup.html

 

Here is another personal favorite, in the last week since Charlottesville, Trump has said that taking down the Confederacy statues was removing history. Right?  Well...maybe he has not always felt that way about HISTORY.  In fact, he has not and is blowing blue smoke up your asses.  In 1980 when building Trump Tower there were two magnificent rare deco pieces in the building that the Metropolitan Museum of Art wanted A LOT for their historical significance to NYC.  Now Trump had received 56 million in tax abatement's..this would have been nothing for him to help the Met.   The museum wanted them donated and would have contributed to the removal of the rare friezes, but Trump thought the delay was too long and even after he agreed, had his men jack hammer the pieces in half and the people from the Met watched as they fell to the ground in pieces.  He also lost a Bronze piece in the rubble. At the time he caught a lot of shit for this, but told the press they weren't of any artistic merit.   In truth, the friezes were in 1980 worth  a great deal and had a good deal of significance from the cities 1929 history.  Now this is a homegrown NYC boy...who destroyed his own culture.  But truth be told..he really has no culture (that part is my opinion-the rest is not).   https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/18/donald-trumps-first-media-controversy-is-a-really-great-story-just-a-really-fabulous-story/

The original story is in here- https://news.vice.com/story/trump-used-to-love-destroying-beautiful-statues

 

Another thing about the Confederacy..on the historical significance of those "artifacts" to Trump, on the campaign trail he was asked about the Confederate Flag and if it should be taken down and put into a museum for historical significance.  His answer..Yes, I believe it should.

"Two days after Donald Trump announced his presidential candidacy, Dylann Roof shot and killed nine African American worshipers at the historically black Emanuel A.M.E. Church in Charleston, S.C. Pictures of Roof holding Confederate flags soon surfaced — and so, too, did calls from Democratic and Republican politicians to remove the flag and other Confederate symbols from government property.

Trump was one of those politicians. Within a week of the shooting, Trump came out in favor of taking the Confederate flag down from South Carolina’s Confederate Monument in Columbia, S.C. adding, “I think they should put it in the museum and let it go."

I cant find the video I saw but here is link for the story..https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/18/in-2015-donald-trump-said-the-confederate-flag-should-go-in-a-museum-heres-what-changed/

 

Comments

wsucram15 Added Aug 18, 2017 - 7:56am
You guys on here might not like this, it requires reading, because it is a good bit of research.  But some of it is very informative and you might learn something.  Im not going to argue, but if you have reliable info to discuss, I would like to hear about it.
wsucram15 Added Aug 18, 2017 - 9:26am
My favorite story is at the bottom of the article. Not about Russia at all and its business related and not old.
The one below that is fascinating...should be big news today.
Dino Manalis Added Aug 18, 2017 - 9:50am
Americans generally don't like leftists, they want hope; progress; and growth, mainstream America felt Trump was better for them than Hillary.  She could have run a stronger campaign, she didn't meet expectations.
George Kocan Added Aug 18, 2017 - 10:33am
It is very simple.  Trump won because the Democrats did not cheat enough.  They thought, relying on the echo-chamber in the Democrat press, that they had the election in the bag.
Jeff Jackson Added Aug 18, 2017 - 10:59am
Trump was a political outsider, and he got elected. I'm just guessing here, but wouldn't Trump's election indicate that the voters wanted an outsider, because they were sick of the politicians who had been trying to get their votes? Trump's election was a victory for the people who were sick of the career politicians who, they felt, right or wrong, were not service them.
Leroy Added Aug 18, 2017 - 11:52am
There is one factual error, WSU.  The Confederate was not flying above the SC Capitol building.  It had long since been removed to State House grounds.  I had mixed feelings about it being removed from the capitol building.  It did not represent any authority and did not make any sense to fly it above the capitol building.  To remove it all together was a typical, liberal knee jerk reaction--even if Trump agreed for political expediency.  South Carolina even honors the British who fought against the Colonies in the revolutionary war and gave it one of the most humiliating defeats of the war.  Even though the Vietnam war was an unjust war, we honor the soldiers that fought in that war.  Some might say it needs to be removed because it represents the evil, misguided policies of the US.  Honoring those that fought for their homeland and/or their country is not a bad thing.  Anyway, nice smear job.
George N Romey Added Aug 18, 2017 - 11:56am
Trump is the not the problem.  He is a symptom of the problem.  Everyone is concentrating on Trump not realizing that its the problem that put Trump into office.
 
Trump won't like last until 2020 and if he does this is our future for another three plus years.  In the meantime the problems will only fester and get worst, a real threat of an economic meltdown that will make the Great Depression look quaint.  Its like watching your house burn down and worrying solely that your grass is well overdue for a cutting.
wsucram15 Added Aug 18, 2017 - 1:21pm
I did not contest Trumps elction..move on from that. Lets discuss my research on him.  I have tons more.  I dont care what people think, these are the facts and I have some much more serious that go back to the 70s.
Leroy..I believe this is a picture, however it is stated in the quote I used as the state house. The correct position as of June 19,2015 is at the Confederate Monument in Columbia, S.C, again according to WP. 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/19/why-south-carolinas-confederate-flag-isnt-at-half-mast-after-church-shooting/
George N Romey Added Aug 18, 2017 - 1:26pm
Jeanne no doubt Trump has a scum ball past.  The question is how did such a sleaze ball get elected and more to the point how did we have a national election for leader of the free world with two of the most despicable characters to come along in decades?  Seems to me solve the problems and the Trumps of the world go back to being on the lunatic fringe or hosting "reality tv."
wsucram15 Added Aug 18, 2017 - 1:40pm
Now Leroy..that is objective...
George #1..perhaps...but there  is more to it than that. There really is.  Democrats still have too many issues for me.
 
Jeff - you would possibly think so, and I think that is a part of it.  But he isnt doing anything in office. People wanted someone that wasnt a politician, I get that.  But a better choice would have been a public servant with some knowledge of how government works at least, you know policies.  I even know that.  The people that voted for him voted against Clinton or for a name.  Most that I spoke with hated Clinton or were in love with him..in spite of everything. They cared nothing about his political stance. Well maybe 15-20% (guessing) did listen to his rallies.
He has NOT drained the swamp, unless you consider the swamp the Democrats only or his version of the Democrats and you see how well that is going.
 
George- IDK..he is making A lot of money, in spite of that the actual pen on Art of the Deal who knows Trump well, says he wont make it through the year.  Not sure though.  I believe his name is Tony Schwartz..  The article is on Newsweek.
 
wsucram15 Added Aug 18, 2017 - 2:02pm
George..you might have some idea and some of it I heard stories about, he is now and has always been a dirty dog.
Im not talking about the kid you get fleas with either, the kind you get indicted and go to jail with including mafia members.
 
I have spent months researching this from old newspapers. Im not ready to talk about all of this yet and actually need some verification on a  couple of items.   
 
But I will ask this of ALL of you..a common sense question.  How can you expect a man with a past like that to have any honor or integrity (which you do need as President in certain matters) if he has never known those ideals?
Its just a question..and please I know he was voted President.
George N Romey Added Aug 18, 2017 - 2:57pm
Jeanne nothing about Trump surprises me. But you have to asked how desperate were Americans that a really bad con artist was able to fool so many. And BTW I also say Obama was a con artist albeit on a smaller scale and much better at it,
wsucram15 Added Aug 18, 2017 - 5:35pm
George..of course you can say that. I like Obama only in that fact that he and his wife had such grace in the White House. It is rare.
However, I had my issues with him as well and some of the things he did in office fell short.   We are ALWAYS going to dislike something about any politician and make no mistake he was an outstanding (much to everyones surprise, including mine) political force. But like most people when confronted with the horrible things Trump has done (and likely will do much worse) the narrative always switches to the evil Clintons or Obama.  It is a false narrative.
Here I would like to add, letting Bannon go for Trump is too little too late.  It is his typical response and Trumps speech and tweets were not written by Bannon. 
 
On the how desperate part..thats what I sought initially to discover after talking to the "trump women" at the march.  At first I believed some of the voters (mostly from talking on here) were desperate for a GOOD candidate and I still believe that perhaps a small percentage of really hardcore Trump supporters have convinced themselves that he is that person because he upsets the mix. 
But he isnt shaking up Washington, DC..thats the problem.  Maybe somewhat because of their constituent problem in 2018, but DC is NOT run by politicians.   Its run by money and enormous amounts of it. Lobbyists for special interests, huge businesses, the 1%, etc...and they care very little for us.
It happens on both sides and it has been going on forever.
 
Trump CANNOT change that.  NOT EVER.  Those politicians work with him to push through dangerous and sometimes heartbreaking EO or legislation you dont even hear about that gets passed on the party line vote to accomplish things for those people with money.
 
TRUMP is NOT DRAINING the SWAMP, in fact he feeds those people what they want.
Can people change this..ABSOLUTELY.  PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO SHOW YOU THIS NOW.  WE ACTUALLY TRIED TO SHOW TRUMP.
But people pay attention to the false narrative, not the truth.  Yes no one wants to hear the TRUTH George...it sucks.  It really does.
Tubularsock Added Aug 18, 2017 - 5:42pm
wsucram15, this is some great material you have collected together. Tubularsock likes research and vast amounts of information to help with the puzzle. But it does take time and much of the information is not always reliable. That is what we’ve got!
 
All “our” Presidents are chosen for us and then packaged and presented like chicken wings. Including with the plastic wrap around them to look like one of “us” citizens.
 
We elect what we are presented with NOT who we may want.
And it is all wrapped in a big Red, White, and Blue ribbon and called “democracy”!
 
And we have bought the bull shit.
 
George is correct that Trump is not as slick as a con artist as Obummer though both of them fit the bill.
 
But because of the failure of Obummer to “pay off” the idealism he created caused Trump to win. And the same may happen to Orange Tweet when his policies start to put the pressure on his follower’s lives personally.
John G Added Aug 18, 2017 - 5:48pm
This doesn't rise to the level of 'research'. It's just a bunch of links to media speculation. 
 
Tubularsock Added Aug 18, 2017 - 5:57pm
John G, the research part is when you read all the links and throw away the crap. It is a starting point not an end result.
 
Media speculation comes from someplace ..... remember "who, what, when and where"?
wsucram15 Added Aug 18, 2017 - 6:15pm
JohnG..it is research..The idea of the article is where my research lead me and things I have discussed with others on both sides. The stories That I have discussed with politicians..my stories.  I have to provide substance to the research and cannot present my opinion as fact. Some of my research like the narrative from the womans march I cant play, I dont have permission.
But I do have the discussions.
Below that IF YOU LOOK, is some of my research with more links to show you the stories that have broke and why I looked into these particular issues.  IT is for discussion and research, not for the lazy.
 
The Moyers timeline is simply fascinating.  But you usually are critical, so it is to be expected.
I have so much more research...and opinion based on that...but some is just not completely verified.
I just found a couple of pieces interesting and worth looking at, if you dont like them, its ok.
 
wsucram15 Added Aug 18, 2017 - 6:16pm
Thanks tubularsock..:)
John G Added Aug 18, 2017 - 6:52pm
Haven't you dismissed the claims of criminality by the Clinton Foundation in the past as baseless?
And haven't you claimed that the Wikileaks release was a Russian hack?
wsucram15 Added Aug 18, 2017 - 7:32pm
JohnG..write an article on that and I will be happy to discuss it.  But not on this feed, I spent a long time on this material and do not appreciate you on here detracting from my work. 
wsucram15 Added Aug 18, 2017 - 7:48pm
Wikileaks wasnt hacked by Russians..that stuff was handed over.   Now WE NOT WIKILEAKS- have been hacked for some time and something did just happen in the US regarding Russia and "fancybear" is still active.  ITs not over yet according to those who know about this stuff.
 
There was a counter defense and offensive launched about Hillary AGAIN on july 12, 2017.  Source Cyber Berkut- Its just propaganda for the US Conservative media.  Same type of data, just different story.
 
Now we have a Ukrainian operative...who is cooperating now with Mueller and intelligence I believe that worked on fancy bear, and the hack.  So we will see if it was real or not.
 
wsucram15 Added Aug 18, 2017 - 8:07pm
Tubularsock.  Thank you very much.  This research is nothing, you should see some of my stuff, goes back to the 70s.
But I thought it was interesting and glad you liked looking over it.
I thought the timeline was fascinating and that is what prompted me to put some of this data in a story so maybe you guys could see what I worked on for a long time.
 
Anyhow..the differences between Trump and Obama are too many to list.  I would not know where to start, oh ok...one is black and one isnt.
The divide gets wider from there.
Obama was groomed and knew how to handle himself.  Trump was not and does not, he is a good ol NYC boy, except he isnt..they really dont like him there.  I remember hearing bad stories about him when I was younger, when he was a wannabe and a joke. 
 
Obama..wasnt a wannabe or a joke, even though they tried in DC and Trump tried to destroy him. with that birther crap.  He was sneaky and ruthless, but eloquent and Presidential when the need arised. 
->The one true thing I liked about him, is he didnt take any shit. He let people think he did, but he did not. He was more than just a highly educated asshole and that I liked about him.  A lot of people didnt like that..I did.
 
He did his job...I did not agree with him on many things.  But he did his job.
Trump just does not..he wants things handed to him...this is not how public service works.  He is not the CEO of the US
 
John G Added Aug 18, 2017 - 8:14pm
So you DO believe that Russians hacked the DNC? 
Tubularsock Added Aug 18, 2017 - 8:29pm
John G, Tubularsock thinks that you may need a program for the hack performance.
 
From what Tubularsock see above wsucram15 didn't agree there was a Russian hack at all.
 
Tubularsock thinks you are playing the game "Who's on first  . . ."
 
Cheers
 
 
 
 
wsucram15 Added Aug 18, 2017 - 9:05pm
I dont know yet, I can tell you that the best research I have found in European sources indicates yes.   I dont know who did this, I have a tendency to think this is more complicated than one incident then fall like dominoes.   Its very neat and tidy.
I will say two things I do know; 1), at least some of the propaganda was done here in Maryland.  I spoke with (online) and also saw an interview with a young man who lived near the Centerville compound on the eastern shore. He spent time in Washington, DC because he bragged about it and IDK if he knew any of the Operatives there, but he admired them. I did not connect any of this until much later and he was GONE....
 
His thing was to post stories, he wasnt being paid, he did this to defeat our corrupt government.  I saw him on a blog being interviewed after that and he was living closer to Washington DC at that point.  After that he disappeared and another guy was doing the same thing for cash though on social media. He made a lot of money.
This stuff did catch on early.  I remember those stories. I didnt know then That there had been any hack..or emails, etc..
 
The other thing that happened positively, is that the election to some degree was tampered with aside from just the propaganda.
Reality Winner was arrested in June for forwarding the most comprehensive intelligence report to a news outlet.  It had already been sent.  AT that time, it had been the most detailed intelligence report on the hacking including government officials, employees, spear phishing, etc...
Now I know of two incidents (1996, 2008)  that carts were set up outside to sell thumb drives to employees and  Those drives then break into the secured computers. 1996 hacking US military system and then in 2008 - "Russian hackers accomplished a feat that Pentagon officials considered almost impossible: breaching a classified network that wasn’t even connected to the public Internet"  Oh yeah. 
"But when Sergey Tretyakov, the station chief for Russian intelligence in New York, defected, in 2000, he revealed that Moscow’s active measures had never subsided. “Nothing has changed,” he wrote, in 2008. “Russia is doing everything it can today to embarrass the U.S.”   NewYorker
This is VERY LONG and MORE COMPLICATED than ANYTHING I WROTE ON HERE..but its real and extremely detailed.   After this, Putin in a public statement said it was possible that Russian citizens acting as loyal citizens hacked the US. 
In fact read this..http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/06/trump-putin-and-the-new-cold-war.
 
Ive never seen so much detail..refute this John.
 
 
 
 
 
John G Added Aug 18, 2017 - 9:29pm
There was no hack of the DNC, Russian or otherwise.There was a leak. If you were genuine you would know that.
The New Yorker piece is predictable US propaganda.
If you wish to place your trust in the CIA et al, that's your business. But don't pretend that it has anything to do with evidence or research. It is blind allegiance and obedience to authority.
John G Added Aug 18, 2017 - 9:31pm
Plus a fair dose of Russophoobic racism.
wsucram15 Added Aug 18, 2017 - 10:07pm
I can see your point, I have heard it and will not say its impossible.
However, I disagree with you based on my current information at hand. Its all I can do.
I cant take your word, provide me with reliable data and I will consider it.
On the New Yorker, I researched the stuff I quoted you, its older news. Even the Sergey story but cannot completely confirm that one yet.
But like I said, you think what you like and I will do the same this is why we have the problems we have..you are being dismissive of my arguments with NO FACTS.
 
John G Added Aug 18, 2017 - 10:38pm
https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/
If there had been a hack, the NSA would be able to supply irrefutable proof. The NSA has been notably reticent to point any accusing fingers in this whole issue.
We also know that Podesta hatched the anti-Russia plan.
Bill H. Added Aug 18, 2017 - 10:44pm
 
Great article and research well done!
I learned a lot from this.
wsucram15 Added Aug 18, 2017 - 10:56pm
Thanks Bill.  Did you read this article?  I didnt post this one yet, but Im working on a doosey and this research is LONG
heads up...http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/06/trump-putin-and-the-new-cold-war.
 
Eventually when my research has some clarity, I will finish it.  Until then this is an excellent source Bill.
 
wsucram15 Added Aug 18, 2017 - 11:36pm
Ok JohnG..
I just did a quick skim over the author, editor, history of story and botched someone out.
Now I am seeing this story is not done yet and ALL facts are not in by Mr Lawrence, perhaps just this piece?
So let me look at this for a hot minute...Im not convinced yet, but I did see something, which I know you didnt, that may work  with the article you sent, that makes some of this very uncomfortable.   (So I remember -its relative to a letter.)
Thanks...Ill look it over.
wsucram15 Added Aug 18, 2017 - 11:36pm
Sorry I meant to say bitched...someone out.
Bill H. Added Aug 19, 2017 - 1:08am
 
WSU - Looks like that link is dead
wsucram15 Added Aug 19, 2017 - 7:14am
wsucram15 Added Aug 19, 2017 - 7:15am
IT works...
 
George N Romey Added Aug 19, 2017 - 12:24pm
Jeanne Obama was just neoliberal politics dressed up to look like Progressives. Trump is a clear and present danger but a President Pence would be much worse. That's why Pence is so quiet on issues. Simply waiting in the wings to take over if called upon. Americans again will be fooled. For the Deep State it's always been about Pence. Trump is simply the past through vehicle.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Aug 19, 2017 - 2:15pm
Jeanne
 
The problem is, as I see it, that the "left" has come off its ideals and loses itself in gender stuff and "equality". I mean, equality is ok, but one has to choose the brains no matter which gender, and not according to a quota. Males and females are not better that the other per se. Thatcher was no better than Morales is, and Clinton is no better than Mujica was.
 
The left digs its own grave by wanting a 1984 societly - all are the same and all think the same. That has flip sides. PC doesn't solve problems - it creates them.
 
We should look at nature and to what we are. Animals. Genders have their role. A woman wants to have kids, and a man wants to be responsible for the family. That's nature. The only thing is that BOTH roles have to be respected and honored.
 
Happens in Africa, by the way...;-)
wsucram15 Added Aug 19, 2017 - 3:01pm
George..
You are RIGHT. I know this.  No matter what this clown does, you dont see me calling for his impeachment. I tell him what an idiot he is..but the HARD right knew they could NEVER get someone like that through a general election.
So they attached him to Trump.
The legislation they have passed already not counting EOs,  is heartbreaking for the US and Trump just signs the stuff and no one talks about it.
But with Pence..we will be living in the 1700s and thats not a joke.
George N Romey Added Aug 19, 2017 - 3:12pm
Jeanne Trump could be the greatest gift to REAL progressives.  Start talking about jubilee, pulling out of the Middle East, infrastructure, campaign finance reform, green technology, public health insurance, guaranteed employment and a real movement might catch on. 
 
Shut up about election hacking, Russia, Trump's big bloated mouth and stop whining.  Dump the Clintons, Schumer and Pelosi.  They are killing the progressive movement to honor themselves.  Who gives a rat's ass about what Trump tweeted.
wsucram15 Added Aug 19, 2017 - 3:29pm
SEF..maybe in an established society perhaps.
Not here..there has to be a divide and people have to fight for it.  I will NEVER bow down to a white supremacist or a person of that mindset.  I can have a conversation and agree to not agree but work together on something, AND I HAVE.  But thats as far as I go.
 
Im telling you MANY, not all..just MANY..still do not accept equality.
If they do, you must ask them what equality means to them and then what is equal to the rest of the world.    There is always some reason why people cant be just accepted. So there it is..
 
In 2013..I listened to the testimony of a woman who was beaten and abused AT HER JOB, by her boss. He locked her in a closet. He threatened her job and she feared losing her kids because she was involved in a divorce.   She was testifying about the emotional part of the abuse, where it pertained to her kids and having to take the abuse...it has a name.   It was interesting to hear that even today women are beaten.
 
I had 2 kids..but I always worked and supported them so I cannot in any way identify with your statement of the old standard of men hunt and protect and women have kids.  Unfortunately, for the MOST part..I did it all.  With the exception of my daughter who did have a father who was involved and helped me a couple of times with a child that was not his, which would be Marc.
 
 
 
Leroy Added Aug 19, 2017 - 3:47pm
"Im telling you MANY, not all..just MANY..still do not accept equality."
 
I suppose I am one of those.  None of us are equal.  Equality sounds fine, but it depends on how it is defined.  The devil is in the details.  I remember discussions from decades ago.  Secretaries wanted to be paid the same as tree trimmers.  What's the connection?  Beats me.  Women are different from men.  We have to face that fact.  We will never be equal.  Nor should we.  In my company, we have forced ranking.  Whatever the ranking, women are automatically bumped up a notch.  I was once asked if I thought evaluations were fair.  I said no for this reason.  They told me I was crazy.  I supplied the memo.
George N Romey Added Aug 19, 2017 - 4:31pm
We are never going back to the one person income anytime soon. Unfortunately many young women are sold on super careers and super moms and there starts the frustration. I saw it with my own mother back in the 70s. Some husbands will support or say they will but they really don't. Yes it might be unfair that men can be both but children tend to migrate towards the mother for developmental support.
 
A final word. Not all family situations are going to be perfect or ideal. I'd put a child with 2 loving gays before many heterosexual couples. 
wsucram15 Added Aug 19, 2017 - 6:19pm
Leroy..  maybe not now, but not that long ago (4 years maybe) I would say I was pretty tough. I have been through alot here in Baltimore.   I have been fortunate in both private and professional life, and on occasion had help..but did things mostly on my own. 
Men might be better at some things..but in my life, that was very limited in its own time and place.  Some of my best friends to this day are men, I have known some of them since shortly after I moved here. Some things friends taught me and some,  I had to learn on my own..how to fix a clogged elbow in the bathroom, how to repair a toilet, how to do some things on my car, you know stuff like that.
 
George.. I was always meant (I think) to be independent. However, I was 22 when I had my daughter and 30 when I had my son. Between the two, I had made 2 major moves, one of them on my own to a big city and I had to learn everything. 
 
When my son was 4, I was literally on my own,  I tried the relationship thing, one more time.  It cost me 20k.  Then I was on my own with 2 kids and my mother after her stroke.  I bought us a house and we struggled at times but survived.  I can honestly say, my daughter learned more from our experiences than my son ever did.  My mom helped but her finances were limited and she had to have money to do things.  She lived in the apartment connected to my house. 
 
I think about all that pressure now and cant imagine how I did all of that.  I worked 10-12 hour days and took care of everyone, when my mother passed away,I decided to enjoy myself more.  I remember right after my son graduated, he moved out to his friends "new apartment'.  He was 18..oh well, I did it.  
You know for that 6 months, I had my house to myself and I realized in my entire adult life, I had never lived alone. It was THE COOLEST time.   Eventually the new company who worked me even more than the old company moved on and it was a relief, it was very stressful. 
 
Less than a year later my boss died, I think that was it for me, I was exhausted.  I decided to check out different ideas, study  and try my hand at different things.  Its been interesting.  Ive done a lot with this time. 
 
There are no perfect family situations..but there are better ones and you can always try to improve the one you have.  Nothing wrong with a gay couple raising a child. Nothing at all.
wsucram15 Added Aug 19, 2017 - 6:28pm
Dannl..I am an equal to any other human being and they are my equal.  This isnt GOT and Im not taking the knee, there is no strategic reason for me to do so. 
We are all the same.
I have said this to CEO's, of HUGE corporations, former bosses, employees, bums on the street, rape victims, women in prison, people in rehab, people at Goodwill, so many place and ON HERE!
"We Are All The Same."  I have been saying this since I was young, I learned it from my Grandmother. 
When people learn that..we might stop destroying one another.  I have to go now. 
Jenifer Frost Added Aug 19, 2017 - 7:23pm
Not to go off topic, but being that the Russia thing was mentioned, I thought it only fair to provide a counter to the author's "Trump/Russia" assertion: “The Russiagate Hoax — Cutting to the Chase” https://medium.com/@markfmccarty/the-russiagate-hoax-cutting-to-the-chase-451fda21845
John G Added Aug 19, 2017 - 9:39pm
Jen. Good piece that. One of the ironies in the whole kerfuffle is that Crowdstrike have links with Ukraine intelligence. So the fact that the DNC conspired with them to subvert the election process seems to have been lost in the mire.
wsucram15 Added Aug 20, 2017 - 12:43am
 I wish what? 
Dannl..you just called my Grandmother a communist, you asshole.
 
Take your shit somewhere else you crazy conspiracy nut job.  Dont come on here giving me grief over a philosophy of mine because I dont agree with your politics. Which one of you is this..Tom or Billy.
 
 
wsucram15 Added Aug 20, 2017 - 2:04am
Jen
I am looking into some John sent. I research everything that seems reliable.  The stuff in this article is NOT simply about Russia, READ IT.  There is some good stuff I heard and researched myself for verification.
Some of these stories are local stories an have no connection to russia.
 
I will say this about Russia as I have said before. Right now it is my stance that Russia did have something to do with the propaganda and possibly more in the elections. I am for the moment sticking to the fact that a hacker handed the information to wiki leaks (mostly based on things Assange said at that time). 
I see the stuff John gave me and I like this kind of stuff so will fish it out.   You cannot go by one source and one writer.  Although the reputation of the source publication he gave me is outstanding and actually rare for this type of story, they are NOT REALLY investigative type journalism. 
 
Jen- Ok first off, this author is doing EXACTLY what I have done and to some extent Johns author has done.  I wont discount either because I know how much work I have put into this.
But this story is in the first part based on a dead guy conspiracy theory, which I like for entertainment but not factual data.  Now it could be true but if it was a true story and the guy was murdered..this would be ginormous, bigger than that.   He was "murdered mostly by hitmen"..are you kidding?   What does that even mean? 
But Im open even on that, how does he know it was hitman? no evidence of that, it is listed as a robbery.  Im betting hitmen dont shoot you in the back, multiple times.  Too much noise in an open area..stuff like that. If someone paid to kill him..he would just be gone.
 
I know personally a couple of people that do this hacking/ security stuff, not at NSA level  more so at FBI level. I actually do know a NSA guy at Ft Mead, but he cant say anything and I would not ask him.  This is definitely traceable with various data analysis tools.  I have no details at all.  I was  advised by another computer person, there is a time code thing and also a sender/ recipient aspect that doesnt match, not sure yet what that means..but most people writing about this over look details like that.  There are many inconsistencies to this stuff and I am trying to understand more in this area. but we do not have the actual intelligence data so its really subjective.
 
 However,  They know exactly what happened and each agency especially NSA does not like to show the intelligence for fear of revealing expensive source and methods of collection. I have read they are really anal about it, particularly within divisions.
 
When Sony was hacked in 2015, the FBI provided  information about the hacking and who did it for the first time.  So they had re covered from Snowden and traced the hack with accuracy.
But you are talking about something much different with confidential material.  
 Your authors sources are in some instances reliable but he draws his own conclusion based on something that is conjecture...he has no verifiable proof.  Its what we all do, but looking at the research is really important, even if you dont like where it takes you.  Im going to keep the story though..just in case..thanks.
Melina Ahl Added Aug 20, 2017 - 9:18am
Gerrymandering and Russia got Sex Offender "elected." Note that if the United States Supreme Court had stated decades ago that Gerrymandering was unconstitutional (when the USSC was first asked to settle the issue), Buxsh1 would have been the most recent Republican Party fascist to be elected.
George N Romey Added Aug 20, 2017 - 9:49am
The way I look at it the US meddled in Russia elections so turnabout is fair play. I'm more concerned where do we go post Trump or even post Pence. I see zero from both parties. They both need to be put out of existence.
Jenifer Frost Added Aug 20, 2017 - 3:13pm
WSU writes "
The stuff in this article is NOT simply about Russia, READ IT."
I'm only interested in Russiagate related stuff when it comes to Trump because I know that Russiagate is a complete hoax (see John's post from The Nation as well as “What’s Left of Russiagate — Are We Down to the 1,000 Paid Trolls?” https://medium.com/@markfmccarty/whats-left-of-russiagate-are-we-down-to-the-1-000-paid-trolls-222bb4c3b3ff
Seymour Hersh Says Report of Russian Hacking Is CIA Disinformation - http://PaulCraigRoberts.org - http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/08/03/seymour-hersh-says-report-russian-hacking-cia-disinformation
“There Are No Russian Hackers” @andsat https://medium.com/@andrewsaturn/hackers-everywhere-139d36f01169 )
As such Russiagate has zero chance to be used as a tool to impeach Trump, and I believe the Clintonite Russiagaters know this. They are a death cult intent on using this fake "act of war" (their words) to push the United States and Russia into a omnicidal nuclear war and bring about human extinction (“We Are Inches From A New World War, And Clintonists Are To Blame” https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/we-are-inches-from-a-new-world-war-and-clintonists-are-to-blame-da51d09e4fac & “Neoconservatism Is An Omnicidal Death Cult, And It Must Be Stopped” https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/neoconservatism-is-an-omnicidal-death-cult-and-it-must-be-stopped-df9ddddcff46
) So feel free to investigate Trump for actual crimes that he could actually be impeach for and I will not oppose you (see for example “Want To Resist Trump Without Being A Corporate Tool? Focus On War Crimes” https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/want-to-resist-trump-without-being-a-corporate-tool-focus-on-war-crimes-4ef541896e7c ). I also am not interested because my objective of stopping WWIII is far more important than stopping one bad president who is only somewhat worse than Obama ("Trump Is Continuing And Expanding All Of Bushbama’s Worst Policies” https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/trump-is-continuing-and-expanding-all-of-bushbamas-worst-policies-7c6b6df3c800 )
Incidentally Assange (who has never been documented as lying) has repeatedly said that the leaks are leaks, he has never said anything about them being "hacks". Only the lying "intelligence" community (see Operation Mockingbird, Operation Condor and Project Phoenix) have said that nonsense AND WITHOUT EVEN EVER HAVING EXAMINED THE DNC SERVERS! So the only way they could possibly know the DNC was hacked is if they employed psychics or used magic. In any event I will push back against this reckless conspiracy theory based on psychics and wizards (not to mention outright bigotry “US Anti-Russia Sentiment Is Built On Racism, Xenophobia, Homophobia, And Demagoguery” https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/us-anti-russia-sentiment-is-built-on-racism-xenophobia-homophobia-and-demagoguery-b1ebef57ddb6 )
until it is publicly exposed as the bullshit it clearly is. As for Seth Rich, "Seth Rich Is A Whistleblower” @trentlapinski https://medium.com/@trentlapinski/seth-rich-is-a-whistleblower-b348767699eb
@JulianAssange: ...what can I say? Liberals ain't liberal. They've fallen into bed with the worst elements of state hardpower & love censorship and death.
wsucram15 Added Aug 20, 2017 - 5:08pm
Jen..
You have refused to read my article or discuss the data I provide which is actually rude since I spent months on this work.  You are attempting to change months of my own research, verified research online, and irrefutable sources of factual material for
a medium?
Please stop trying to change the narrative with insane conspiracy theories (not that I can discount all of them), because your medium says so? https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone
Its bad enough you had me look up that stuff last night based on her assumptions, but you have to be kidding.
I love Notradomus and I thought he was actually quite accurate in old world predictions.  I can remember people selling their homes and sitting outside in the 80s over end of the world predictions.   People have credited him (from the 1400s) with predicting the french revolution, rise of hitler, and even 9/11 (although new world prediction changes with decade). 
In any event, he said some things that were accurate and its odd. But we only have 100 more predictions left and another 1790 years until he predicts the world will end.
All of this is subjective..you know whats not, Seth Rich was murdered and it was a robbery. Unless they come up with come forensics..not a hitman with a crazy DNC plot.  
 
Now I dont care about CLinton but I do give a shit about my verifiable work.  Provide mw with some hard factual data I can research and not this crazy subjective conspiracy crap.  I cant prove that, nor can you.  It sounds crazy.  Sad thing is..there might be something to it...but I have worked on this myself for months...nothing to research..just ideas that do not pan out.
 
 
 
 
wsucram15 Added Aug 20, 2017 - 5:10pm
Sorry Nostradamus
wsucram15 Added Aug 20, 2017 - 5:15pm
Jen..one more tip..stop using other peoples work.  Dont you work at the government?
Its kinda shut down right now..but open a stupid blog page and get a press pass.  It takes a bit but get one..go out and work the beat.
Investigate from that angle and you will be posting the same thing over and over like much of the media.  Investigative journalists dont do that.  
To get the stories you have to hunt and you cant do that from this box.  On this story..the news comes from everywhere. 
 
Gotta go..have a phone conference.
Jenifer Frost Added Aug 20, 2017 - 5:55pm
Dannl is right about you WSU, you are a crazy conspiracy theory nutjob. I presented facts which you misalign as "conspiracy theories" (never mind the fact that zero people are conspiring with anyone in the factual revelation that no Russian hacking occurred), while you present wild (literally) magic based conspiracy theories and call it "research". I'm just going to avoid your bigoted, ignorant, Russophobic ass from now on, and invite you to steer clear of me as well. Either you are immensely stupid, or part of the push for nuclear war with Russia and human extinction. Either way I'm done wasting time on your neoliberal warmonger hypocrite dirtbag ilk. Good riddance. Julian Assange was certainly right in his quote above. Oh and NO I don't work for the government, I never said anything remotely like that crazy bitch. You forget to take your meds today or something? I'm out of here. 
Jeff Michka Added Aug 20, 2017 - 7:13pm
wsucram15 notes: Its bad enough you had me look up that stuff last night based on her assumptions, but you have to be kidding.-I see you ran afoul of perfect priestess JenJen's pet conspiracy theory, and attacked.  I refused to tuck my tail in and run from her nonstop BS.  The freakin' Medium?  Of course, don't even think about  questioning it.  Thanks for a well thought and done piece.  At least she didn't call you a murderous troll.  BTW she claimed, at one time, to be some Ninetendo telecommuter type.  Got a feeling she is real popular when people question her on the job, or just say "no."  AND calling you a neoliberal warmonger hypocrite dirtbag ilk. Good riddance. - Huh? Think JenJen wants you to be soooo offended you leave WB and leave "the field" for only those that will buy into her conspiracy theory without question.
wsucram15 Added Aug 21, 2017 - 5:57pm
Jeff..Ive been writing a long time, and on WB for about 4 years. 
Jen, Dannl and their ideas arent incorrect, they just arent verifiable.
 
I have seen the story many times about the young man Seth Rich, its not that I have not had my own questions.  Any one who writes should ask these questions it is an interesting angle or possibility, but it would seem there is no evidence there, only suspicions.  I have explained, I would love for something like this to pan out, it would give me credentials I dont have now...but there is no substance to support the story  and If either had a source at the Washington police department, I might be inclined to research further, but they dont.
A lot of credible people have looked into this and found nothing..and I dont have strong enough credentials to screw around with a dead story on no leads. I am especially not going to do something like that for two people insulting me.
 
The only person who has provided me with something that I can look into is JohnG.  So Im doing that.  But I am getting some flack about it so it makes me curious. The weekly source is substantial so on that merit, Im looking into it.
opher goodwin Added Aug 21, 2017 - 6:44pm
Observations from Britain was that Clinton was deliberately scuppered by the FBI. I don't know who was responsible for pulling that trigger. Clinton's whole momentum was halted dead.
Both candidates were poor but Trump was seen as unelectable and far worse - uncouth and a braggart. The Tea Party were openly ridiculed here as being total nutcases and Trump was to the right of them.
He used all the tactics of a populist - dividing communities, using inflammatory speech, promising stupid things, using xenophobia and racism, ratcheting up fear of Islam and terrorism.
In the event he lost the vote but got in by the electoral college.
Since then he has been even worse than predicted.
I read your articles with interest. It clearly demonstrates the lying cretin he is.
He's in it for the money.
 
Jeff Michka Added Aug 21, 2017 - 7:49pm
I dont have now...but there is no substance to support the story And I am especially not going to do something like that for two people insulting me.-You did some work here obviously, and cannot tell you if it was a "waste" of time, or effort, but I've always thought, from what you wrote in article and comments, to be a very active participant in matters.  That's a rarity, in and of itself, and you must ask yourself if this is worth it.  The Seth Rich deal, as you note is interesting, but seems trails that a reporter might follow are bare.  The furor over it reminds me of the Vince Foster "was murdered by the Clintons" sort of thing.  heat, noise and not much else factually.  All the stuff abouT "Russian hacking" is, at best, a distraction that absorbs peoples' time and deflects away from other legislative issues and matters.  I personally feel the conspiracy theorists have made it a religion out of it, without a portfolio.  JenJen's "sources" do not follow the better model you suggest about investigative reporting.  IT'S EASY TO WRITE MATERIAL WITHOUT DIGGING OUT THE FACTS, OR AS YOU SAY, WALKING THE BEAT. I also believe this grand "deep state" conspiracy is a cross of convergent agendas combined with government agencies acting like government agencies, not some complex and convoluted plots.  Sometimes simple is best, whether it's a recipe or a "foul plot."  John G has been the only "Deep State conspiracy promoter with any real information you might get a hold on, and despite his comments, at least been helpful, but funny, there are no names for all these deep state actors the WB Deep State Religion member can provide without buying into, for example 9/11 conspiracies.  Nope.  There were these Saudis that got cockpit on some big jets and used them like kamikazes.  There wasn't this convoluted plotting to 9/11...what it was was bad enough, but noooooo....a "conspiracy by any other name is still a rose..." Let's make sure people think there's nothing they can do to change things, so they will do nothing, which seems the conspiracy promoter's goal.  Then there's the "I'm stopping nuclear war, sez JenJen and others, but can't tell you who that would advantage in scope of any nuclear reality.  So, it must be that universal lightning rod, Hillary Clinton, wanting to be appointed president AND start WWIII. IF not Hillary, then Putin will start WWIII over banking sanctions.  THAT LINE OF THOUGHT DOESN'T PASS A SMELL TEST.  Forget D anal's comments, he's having a ball fooling people into defining who he "is", but never really commiting to anything outside 666+666=121212, since numerology sucker the "prophets" in.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 21, 2017 - 7:56pm
I suppose I look at things this way: Vince Foster, was the real owner of Foster Farms poultry.  They don't kill chickens there, the chickens kill themselves...Back in the day, saying that to my wife while at the grocery store got the guy at the meat counter to groan.  I knew the Foster "conspiracy had become "pop culture". LOL
wsucram15 Added Aug 21, 2017 - 9:56pm
Opher;
Whatever happened, it damaged her enough that with her overconfidence in her chances, her election was over.  In retrospect now, I dot think she ever stood a chance and some of it was ego. Another part of that was lack of action by officials in Government. Who when confronted by VERY SERIOUS situations, are really notoriously bad at this.
 
It is NOT the first time we were hacked by Russia and in fact LONG before this election thing, I had read about the military hack in 96 and in 2008 something different happened but it was again Russia.   Now I dont know why they didnt expect something of this magnitude.
IT seems inept of them.. and also they knew about the Russian Interference before the DNC hacking in September of 2015 and felt the DNC may have already been compromised, no one took the call seriously.
 
 
To anyone else- Look there is a good bit of conspiracy in all government, particularly in corrupt government. BUT you would have to be an absolute idiot, to believe that a man on a salary, some time ago is now the wealthiest man in the world (along with all his buddies) without being the most corrupt man in the world. People that oppose him, die. Journalists that investigate him..they are murdered.
35% of all Russian wealth is held by 110 people. The number of Russian Billionaires has doubled since 2005.  13.2% of their population exists on about 132.00 per month. While Putin and friends are all Billionaires, some of them, from companies stolen by the state. Putin is estimated to be the wealthiest man in the world with approximate totals to be between 100-200B, more often to the higher amount. 
You guys think US has income inequality? Wow...
 
I have looked into that and actually spoken to Russians about it.  Those stories are true.  Some love the guy, just like some of you love Trump and then some dont.
 
Does that prove anything..no it doesnt, but all those "coincidences" are too coincidental. You know, much like your conspiracy theories.  There are too many of them with Trump and so many people now I cant name them all without actually looking at notes.
 
Trump is a populist, an egomaniac and he has always been this way. He has no central core values, he proves that every day and his ego is dangerous. He literally has to have that fed before he eats breakfast.  He has always played just inside the edge of the wrong side of the law, sometimes deeper than that, and call it a sister that is connected or FBI connections..he walks when others go to jail including people from the mafia he has had longtime ties with. 
 
He is not a great business man, he is not a lover of the people. What he is, is a marketer and along with some pretty slick help, he knows what people want and need to hear. 
I hope for everyones sake, his ass falls into some lucky well somewhere and bails us out, because his worst nightmare (and ours) is Pence.
 
 Jeff..I worked at a chicken plant a long time ago..if you only knew.
wsucram15 Added Aug 21, 2017 - 10:07pm
Also at the end of all of this research..one thing I have concluded is that people need to start ignoring the news and either watch Cspan (congress in session) or start looking for upcoming bills online.  There are things being passed we are not going to be fond of later.
 
Im telling you that now..land, water, endangered wildlife not being endangered anymore so access to land can be granted, shady IRS deals for buddies. The election commission that protected our federal election services was closed. Yeah, its outdated. We dont own things that used to belong to the US., Im not sure when that started but it was before Trump.
People they are counting on us fighting and our stupidity. Theres your conspiracy theory.
 
I watch this stuff, not the news..I watch the Congress do this stuff when I know its coming up. Unless I am out in front of the damn building fighting it. 
John G Added Aug 21, 2017 - 10:51pm
Oh FFS. 
If you believe Putin is rich, let alone the richest man in the world, you're beyond hope.
The oligarchs became richer than Croesus under Yeltsin and the Harvard School economists led by Jeffrey Sachs. 
Putin reined them in to some extent.
Seriously, what you call 'research' consists of reading baseless state propaganda.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 22, 2017 - 11:15am
wsucram15 notes: Jeff..I worked at a chicken plant a long time ago..if you only knew.-Was it Vince Foster farms?-AND-because his worst nightmare (and ours) is Pence.- Pence is Trump's "impeachment insurance"  I  agree, under Pence it would instantly become the mid 1700s again.
wsucram15 Added Aug 22, 2017 - 3:28pm
Jeff
No, it was Purdue,  it was the 80s and I de-boned chicken breast. I lived near a bunch of the farms though.  Then it was bad, really bad.   I didnt eat chicken for years unless my brother (who has his own farm) brought it for me. We used to go to Turkey shoots to get thanksgiving turkey or I bought fresh meat. 
I stopped eating all processed meats altogether when friend worked at Esskay and I saw what went into the stuff like hot dogs and bologna. Neither of my kids will eat anything like that.  
I think I had a bite of a hot dog at a baseball game once since 1989.  
 
Anyway..Pence is Trumps biggest problem and I dont know why anyone cant see that.  But he would become a problem for the people of the US as well.  He is a hard right Republican that is definitely from the old school of politics.  He is believed to be a federalist of the Federalist Party.  His core values are so strong they have been compared to those of people that abide by sharia law. For example so people dont think Im calling him a muslim, he has strong religious values, those he feels ALL Americans should have.  
For example..he will not sit down to dinner with a female, even at a public event, unless his wife is present.  It is wrong for multitudes of reasons by US law, but you have to respect his respect of his marriage.
He is however a person of integrity in spite of the fact he is probably the most right wing christian conservative in office since the 1700s.
 
John G Added Aug 22, 2017 - 4:40pm
Wow. I think we've found the liberal version of Sutrina.
RJGnyc Added Aug 22, 2017 - 5:29pm
So many comments on this thread that I couldn't wade through them all.  I appreciate the many links provided, though.  I had forgotten the debacle when the tower was built, and you brought back those memories.
Now, FWIW, there is clear proof that Russia tried to influence the election -- although all of the known direct hack attempts (mostly of voter registration rolls) appear to have failed.  The Russian influence took the form of leaks, of bot-created Facebook posts, of bot-spread tweets, of false stories planted as news items, etc.  All of this effort was just enough to tip the scales and lose the election for Clinton in the Electoral College despite her larger share of the popular vote.
I think the reason the scale was tippable at all can be attributed to the fact that support for Clinton was often lukewarm.  I was one of those who voted for her, but I also know how it felt a little bit ... uncomfortable.
Sure, there was no risk of my vote going for her terrible, inept, willfully ignorant opponent (as a NY person I know his BS far too well) -- but despite her obvious skills, her long experience, her established lifelong dedication to many of the causes and positions I support, I still felt that she was somehow not genuine.  Insincere, perhaps.
As I said, this didn't stop me from voting for her; for me, the choice was clear.  However, those same misgivings could have resulted in changed votes (or a refusal to vote) for many other people.  At rock bottom, they just didn't like her.  The only reason stupid dead end stories like Benghazi or the e-mail server had legs arose from that mistrust.
The Republicans won't impeach the President because every one of them wants a shot at the White House, but it would be harder to run against an incumbent if it were Pence.  In response, the Democrats would be in serious danger if the party brings Clinton back as a candidate, because ... well ... people still don't really like her.
John G Added Aug 22, 2017 - 5:55pm
 there is clear proof that Russia tried to influence the election 
Liar. You are a concern troll for the DNC.
RJGnyc Added Aug 22, 2017 - 6:28pm
Dear John G - Thank you for your measured, thoughtful, not-at-all bizarrely over-the-top insulting contrarian post.  I will treasure it whenever I am tempted to share an opinion with the misperception that the internet is not patrolled by angry boobs.
wsucram15 Added Aug 22, 2017 - 7:32pm
JohnG..are you implying I am like Sutrina? Thats really nice. Thanks.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 22, 2017 - 7:33pm
Robert G sez: Democrats would be in serious danger if the party brings Clinton back as a candidate, because ...-she's a lousy candidate that ran a lousy campaign.  Reason right there without all the drama.  Ds would be stupid and foolish allowing her to do that again.  Hillary was, like in any political contest, ultimately responsible for her campaign, and it was badly ran and led.  She needs to be held accountable for her campaign.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 22, 2017 - 7:40pm
wsucram15 sez: but you have to respect his respect of his marriage.-I don't believe you have to respect a rigid wowser in terms of his views having to be everyone elses' concern. Therein always lies the rub with dogmatics like Pence, or in WB terms, a Ryan Messano.
wsucram15 Added Aug 22, 2017 - 7:41pm
Robert..I think you are right.  The thing you are the most right about is the NY stories about Trump.  My cousin lived there and I spent summers there growing up.  I heard plenty about him, I really think he enjoyed being in the papers.  He must have an enormous ego..I remember having a conversation along those lines with a friend of my cousins and her boyfriend and they just laughed.    Look they all hung at Studio 54 way back when.
I still to this day cant believe some of the things he has done and gotten away with, yet his people love him.  I spent months pulling up all those old papers...this is newer stuff. 
Jeff Michka Added Aug 24, 2017 - 9:28pm
wsucram15 relates: I didnt eat chicken for years unless my brother (who has his own farm) brought it for me. We used to go to Turkey shoots to get thanksgiving turkey or I bought fresh meat.-I hated butchering chickens, but loved being able to control the quality and we'd have excellent end results, roasted, fried or bbq'd.  I've heard similar tales of disgust from others. Slaughterhouse workers, etc.  And good re process meats.  hot dogs, conventional wisdom: Lips and assholes, but I've always suspected worse.  Sorry. 
Flying Junior Added Aug 25, 2017 - 1:59am
Maybe we can spend some time and energy researching Trump once we have relegated him to the dustbin of history.
 
So far, we have way too much information about this creep.  Why not spend your time researching why the media are not smart enough to ignore him?
wsucram15 Added Sep 11, 2017 - 11:23pm
Hey Jeff..he brought me the chicken from his farm because he was in another state.  If not, I would have butchered and cut it myself.
 
I didnt like working in the chicken farms no..its gross..ever try it? There is a huge difference between cutting a fresh chicken up for yourself, and taking chicken breasts out of a wooden barrel in a freezing cold wet room, slippery as hell, and cutting the meat off the bone with a thin knife that would take off your fingers. You were timed and had to cut IDK, so many in a minute or the line backed up.  You had to separate the tenders from the breast meat also and they went in separate wooden barrels or buckets.  Think about that just for a minute.  Im not going to apologize for letting the disgusting dirty nature of the place bother me nor the fact I didnt want to eat chicken after that.
 I will also NEVER apologize for not eating processed meats. 
 
The meats you get are processed...I wasnt raised that way.  We grew our own vegetables and farm-picked those we didnt for canning or freezing.  Its how I grew up.
When we didnt have enough food, we bought from the butchers or the Amish place near my Grandmothers.  We ate a lot of meat that we either bought when my grandfather bought his annual allotment of beef and pork, or we ate weird stuff like rabbit, venison, crab, fish, stuff we had caught or my brother gave my dad. My father went to Baltimore once a year with his brother Harry and my older brother and they went crabbing and sometimes fishing.  Later I went, I still love to fish for flounder.  My son actually won an award in Ocean City Maryland one year for largest Flounder caught by under 12 class.  It was 18 3/4 " long. 
I didnt always live in a city.
 
Also my mother made my clothes.  Its not like we couldn't buy clothes..she just chose to make them (until she finished her degree and went to work).  I wasnt very appreciative of that as a kid though
wsucram15 Added Sep 11, 2017 - 11:48pm
Flying Junior..Maybe you can research something...try it.
I did that research during the campaign and there is a ton more. Two, maybe three articles worth of stuff. When I find something that interests me..I research it.   I have recanted why I researched Trump multiple multiple multiple times in this thread.  If you dont like it.. find a better topic to research yourself or be patient until my stuff is done and I move on to my other stuff.
 
The amount of ignorance to fact astounds me, but honestly..it goes both ways. I get arguments from both liberals and conservatives both, on this guy, but facts are facts. 
 
Jeff Michka Added Sep 13, 2017 - 6:45pm
"Flying" Jr. sez: Why not spend your time researching why the media are not smart enough to ignore him?-Why don't you spend the time if it really interests you, or you feel it's a burning issue worthy of a whipping.  wsucram15 does a lot of research.  Just because she didn't immediately offer to follow your lead, no reason to give her a hard time over it.
John G Added Sep 15, 2017 - 7:41pm
Hey Jeanne, I'm sure you've read Skip Folden's report.
Any thoughts?
Saint George Added Sep 15, 2017 - 7:53pm
Its how I grew up.
 
And everyone should be required by law to grow up exactly as you grew up.
Saint George Added Sep 15, 2017 - 7:57pm
Concern Troll?
Culture Warrior?
 
These are pre-fabricated, pre-digested phrases that require no reflection or deliberation to deploy. They mean nothing but appear as if they do.
 
They're the rhetorical equivalent of partially hydrogenated soybean oil in processed, refined carbohydrates: no nutritional value by themselves but a useful filler.
John G Added Sep 15, 2017 - 8:00pm
New Rule – Saint George and John G are no longer allowed to communicate to each other.  Any specific addressing of the other or quote of the other’s words on this site will result in suspension. 
Saint George Added Sep 15, 2017 - 8:08pm
Clarification of New Rule:
 
No communication has taken place between Saint George and John G. No quotations have been tendered.
 
No "specific addressing of the other" has occurred. Verify this with Calamity Jane in Carson City.
 
Whiners should either leave or grow up.
John G Added Sep 15, 2017 - 8:18pm
Any specific addressing of the other or quote of the other’s words on this site will result in suspension. 
Saint George Added Sep 15, 2017 - 8:24pm
We're quaking in our Birkenstocks.
 
No specific addressing OF THE OTHER has occurred.
 
Criticisms of trite and overused buzz-phrases and weasel words like Culture Warrior and Concern Troll are not examples of "specific addressing OF THE OTHER" as no usernames, monikers, avatars, etc., were employed.
 
Whiners should leave or mature.

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