Angry White Women, Good White Men, Brave Black Girls, and Loving Negroes

 

Democrats and Republicans View on Educating Blacks--a Waste of Money or a Waste of Talent?

 

If Blacks have the education, they could learn to fish instead of waiting for Jesus [the Democrats] to bring them a piece of fish. They could also reverse engineer the Chinese’s technique, of making plastic food (rice, fish, et al), to make loaves of plastic bread.

 

Perhaps Jesus had something to do with it, but many Whites think Blacks sit idly by and wait for welfare checks--their “benefits.” Paradoxically, early Whites were not providing Blacks with the education to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but held the view they were lazy welfare pimps.

Tellingly, when Blacks revved up their fight for public education in an Arkansas public school, a Democrat whom Blacks believe is their JESUS, said NO TO EDUCATING THE NEGROES. On the other hand, a Republican, who Blacks believe hate them, said YES TO THEIR EDUCATION.

 

The history books reveal: “Arkansas Governor Orval Faubus [DEMOCRAT] had surrounded the school with National Guard troops to prevent its federal court-ordered racial integration.”  

Therefore, “under escort from the U.S. Army’s 101st Airborne Division, nine black students enter all-white Central High School in Little Rock, Arkansas.  After a tense standoff, President Dwight D. Eisenhower (REPUBLICAN) federalized the Arkansas National Guard and sent 1,000 army paratroopers to Little Rock to enforce the court order.”

 

Herein is the genesis of the current and pervasive Black achievement gap: Many Whites’ belief that Blacks lack the mental capacity for education that did not tie them to a mule and a plow on a plantation. Additionally, they believe any attempt otherwise was a waste of taxpayers’ money and a denial of equal opportunity for the mule to elevate the talent of a lower animal, which it would teach "personal responsibility and hard work."

 

In that regard, Democrats already angry at Republicans for freeing their “slaves” harden their hearts against Blacks being educated. Notwithstanding, Blacks still love Democrats.

 

Just a note, the first Black college was established about 220 years after the first White college.

Source

Visual

Comments

Ari Silverstein Added Sep 11, 2017 - 10:27am
“Democrats and Republicans View on Educating Blacks--a Waste of Money or a Waste of Talent?”
 
Both Democrats and Republicans believe educating blacks isn’t waste of anything…what made you believe otherwise?
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 11, 2017 - 11:36am
I did not state a belief, I asked a question. But you would be surprised at the many monumental narratives along our country's timeline declaring such expenditure to be a waste.  That is why I support keeping the monuments as guides for us to not repeat the past.
 
As per waste of talent, the answer or a wry smile could be derived from here: "Many Whites’ belief that Blacks lack the mental capacity for education that did not tie them to a mule and a plow on a plantation. Additionally, they believe any attempt otherwise was a waste of taxpayers’ money and a denial of equal opportunity for the mule to elevate the talent of a lower animal, which it would teach "personal responsibility and hard work."
 
Isn't a Republican mantra regarding Blacks is: They lack personal responsibility and good work ethics?   Prior to that, was it not that they were lower than animals, making them good or enslavement?
 
 
Thomas Sutrina Added Sep 11, 2017 - 1:10pm
You are correct in the view of whites in America before about 1980 15 years after civil rights bills passed congress in two waves Eisenhower and LBJ many bills covered the same territory.  But reality never agreed with the perception.   Integration of schools throughout the nation has brought the truth home to the young adults starting in the 1980s.   The major problem that you Dr. Green point out are the neighborhood created by the FDR housing project policy of creating race neighborhoods.  That ended during LBJ's administration.  However; the damage had already been done.  The schools that you present as problems are those that are in the FDR created black ghettos. 
 
Lincoln as part of his society did not think Blacks were on average as intelligent and whites.  That did not change the fact that he and the north were against slavery.
 
Wikipedia presents reality, "According to the National Negro Business League, the number black-owned businesses doubled rapidly, from 20,000 in 1900 to 40,000 in 1914. . . . One of the most famous entrepreneurs was Madame C.J. Walker (1867–1919), who built a national franchise business called Madame C.J. Walker Manufacturing Company, based on her development of the first successful hair straightening process. . . . Booker T. Washington, who ran the National Negro Business League and was president of the Tuskegee Institute, was the most prominent promoter of black business. He traveled from city to city to sign up local entrepreneurs into the national league. . . . Although black business flourished in urban areas, it was severely handicapped in the rural South where the great majority of blacks lived. Blacks were farmers who depended on one cash crop, typically cotton or tobacco. They chiefly traded with local white merchants. "  The rate of Black entrepreneurs exceeded whites. 
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 11, 2017 - 3:15pm
@ Thomas. Your authority on all matters scholarly is noted and I respect your responsiveness on FB.  I also note your fixation on a topic of strength and sense your fear of departing from it, as some children fear departing from the security of their mothers' leg.
 
Scholars do not cite Wikipedia as a reputable sources. However, if I were to cite it, I would examine their sources--a lesson for you.
 
Yes, Madam C. J. did her thing, and I have the highest regards for her. She made it possible for the Blacks who perceived their nappy hair as abominable to strive for the attaining "perfect hair" of that of Whites.
 
She was hardly a stalwart for Afrocentricity, and you could see how she advanced the concept of Black self-loath behind the Clark Doll Test.  
 
Booker T. also did his thing, and I applaud him. I would have felt more comfortable if you mentioned  Dubois. Nonetheless, Booker T. advanced vocational training that would keep Blacks tied on the plantation behind a mule and a plow.
  
On the other hand, Dubois proposed advancement of Blacks' intellectualism and professionalism.   The Philanthropists funded Booker T. who traveled far and wide to have localities develop trade schools for Blacks.  Whites were not into Dubois shit. The philanthropists and the plantation owners were in collusion to advance education that tied the Negroes to the plow shares and the plantations. Booker T. was their tool.
 
Blacks, whose advocacy for quality education helped formed the common/public school, were not all into that cobbler training shit. As you see, I am spitting this empirical data without the use of Wikipedia or YouTube.  Should you need sources, just ask.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 11, 2017 - 5:17pm
Dr. Green notes: Isn't a Republican mantra regarding Blacks is: They lack personal responsibility and good work ethics? - Yup, and it's a mantra for WB rightists, too.  WEB Dubois chapters in some cities still advocate for educational opportunities and ventures.
Rusty Smith Added Sep 11, 2017 - 10:11pm
Dr. Rupert Green how can you attempt to make your case when it's obvious that the average Black child is currently given extremely preferential treatment compared to White children when it comes to every stage of the admission process, from what qualifies them for admission to the cost of their tuition.
 
I have black employees whose children are attending prestigious colleges for about $8K a year, at the same time as it costs me in excess of $60K a year for my white children to do the same thing.  
 
I'm not talking about fair in this forum, I'm addressing your forum topic which claims we're not doing enough.  
 
So if getting the same education at an 87% discount is not doing enough, what would be?  Should we just give them a diploma and skip the boring part?   Remember to some extent we tried that in the past and all it did was produce a whole lot of Black graduates that no one wanted to hire, because no one knew which one really deserved their diploma.
John G Added Sep 12, 2017 - 3:21am
I have black employees whose children are attending prestigious colleges for about $8K a year, at the same time as it costs me in excess of $60K a year for my white children to do the same thing.  
Do you have any white employees that you pay so little?
Otherwise the comparison is invalid.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 12, 2017 - 4:03am
@ Rusty. I will deduce that you are speaking about college.  The empirical evidence found in the link will show that at no time in the past 45 years has Blacks surpassed whites percentage wise in college attendance.
Percentage of 18- to 24-year-olds enrolled in degree-granting postsecondary institutions, by level of institution and sex and race/ethnicity of student: 1970 through 2015.
Your response, notwithstanding it inability to withstand rigorous scrutiny, raises interesting questions.
 
First let me applaud you, one stating you were unemployed three years ago because of your disillusion with the system, on being an employer now. However, given that, it is clearly a stretch and a statistical anomaly that ,lets say the, 5 of "your Black employees' children" are all paying the same amount to attend different prestigious colleges. 
 
"I'm not talking about fair in this forum, I'm addressing your forum topic which claims we're not doing enough." Rusty
 
Serious discussions from me are mostly about asking questions to facilitate thinking rather than my asserting facts.  Please note some of my responses to you are about getting my jollies from my analysis derived from an extrapolation of your response. That means you did not assert some of the things I am responding to, you implied them.
 
I see that you have been negatively impacted by that "reverse racism" shit. That is unfair to you. Only the best and brightest children should be in college.  What about the stupid Black child who can see in three-D and think in numbers? Could the military use such officers for asymmetrical warfare? What is the name of that autism woman who most everyone said was a waste to educate. She sees like cows do. Dr.... 
 
By your allusion, I see you are troubled that Blacks lack the gray matter to benefit from higher education not preparing them for being field hands. What a waste to have the fields not plowed for lack of a mule guide.  Such was the views of the eugenicists before they took off their sheets entered think tanks, and became policy makers in colleges and universities.  
 
Is the system showing mindlessness given your fact that schools earlier tried to educate Blacks with little success?  After all, they had diplomas with their names written on it and could not spell their names when asked to.
 
Yes! I see you believe the equity business is a shame because Blacks compared to Whites are getting preferential treatment from educational expenditure on them.
 
So here we have a situation where select gifted Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math minded high school children from all over the country are selected for a special Office of Naval Research training program.  The administrators have latitude with spending up to $80 K on each child, and you found out that a Black one is spending $40K on one group and $70K on another. Would you cry foul?
 
Treating children equally is not treating them fairly. One group of the all White students was from schools in silicon Valley and the other from schools in Appalachia. That administrator may have to spend on feeding, clothing, and providing healthcare for Appalachian children. Consider Black students in that regard.
 
If your White child who attended all White high school has to be splitting hair/point differential with a Black high school student from an urban ghetto to enter college, does it not say something for fairness? 
 
 
 
 
 
 
wsucram15 Added Sep 12, 2017 - 6:38am
Dr Green..apparently you and I have been having different discussions on here for some time. 
john guzlowski Added Sep 12, 2017 - 6:42am
Rusty Smith, black kids are given preferential treatment in the schools? 
 
I invite you you to come to Lynchburg.  
 
We we have a predominantly black high school and a predominantly white school.
 
The former is like a factory.  The latter is like a resort.
 
It's like this everywhere I've lived.
 
 
john guzlowski Added Sep 12, 2017 - 6:44am
Dr. green, thanks for the post.  Have you listened to the NPR Human Brain post on why white people think people of color are trying to sneak into the line? 
Thomas Sutrina Added Sep 12, 2017 - 8:47am
Dr. Green please tell me of an encyclopedia in publication and what are there sales?  Wikipedia has drive there sales very low and some are out of business.  That speaks for itself about the quality of Wikipedia.  I agree Scholars do not cite Wikipedia, and I am not doing scholarly work.  No one the writes here are doing scholarly work.
 
The point I was trying to make was that colored or black communities were as vibrant and as intelligent despite segregation and Jim Crow.  The lack of education did not seem to prevent people.  And many were educated.  Outside of the black ghettos in schools that I know small city America segregation worked quite well.  rural communities with on race super majorities obviously did not have a races to mix and the few they had went to the same schools.  The Problem was the super majority ghettos in the city created by government housing polity started when the Federal Government entered, FDR.  
 
Two segregation polities did the damage.  neighborhood shall be of one race.  Thus public housing by clearing land created public housing of a single race.   Second the government loaned to builders and realtors with the single race policy of ownership.  That is what created the suburbs and made them a single race.  Government decided the suburbs race was white and the city race was black from the 40s to 60s.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 12, 2017 - 8:51am
I could go over and correct my deviation from the Queen's grammar, but I wont. No one pointed it out. In the early morn when I am sleep writing, smoke may be obscuring my vision.
 
@Wsucram15.  "Dr Green..apparently you and I have been having different discussions on here for some time. " If you expound on quoth I will be on a level playing field. Perhaps you were referring to my saying that I mostly ask questions than assert facts. Of course when I am engaging you I will assert facts.
 
@ John. Rusty changed his watermelon in mouth avatar because he was enlightened as a result of our discussion. If you are to engage in group think, following some of the extreme views here, the reasonable person can be carried away with the foolishness expounded by fools. Thus one must be strong in his or her conviction. Rusty is a reasonable person, he will see the errors of his way.
 
Blacks are not given preferential treatment in public schools. Indeed , I appreciate Rusty's going to see the primary evidence in Lynchburg. However, I would be reticent to do so. I have a fear of ropes, train tracks, and strange fruits (;).
 
I will explore the NPR post. 
Lee Webster Added Sep 12, 2017 - 12:06pm
The state of affairs right now in the USA does have a lot to do with historical developments.  It is not one political party versus another, it is more about advantages gained and maintained.  World history is replete with aggressive human beings using and abusing other human beings for advantages.  Is it human nature to take advantage in such ways?  The differences among people are used to make a point for casting the group civil or uncivil or less than for the rationalizations to take advantage.
 
There are the advantaged and privileged people, and there are the people who have opportunities to overcome, but some have not opportunities to overcome for various reasons as the odds can be against.  But rewards should in truth go towards the merit of one's work, yes?  There is hardwired (biological) effects to this and that which societies and culture in part try to moderate.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 12, 2017 - 12:34pm
I have missed your policy description. I don't know anything about public schools in America, but one thing strikes me: they produce too many socialists. That has to stop.
Everybody says that Europe is more socialist than the US, and it's true but the number of die-hard Marxists who think they know better than people who LIVED under socialism, better than people who were FORCED to study Marx year after year, is astonishing. It's sickening.
I don't know your system in detail but it must be more decentralized to stop the ideological propaganda.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 12, 2017 - 1:42pm
@Thomas. "That speaks for itself about the quality of Wikipedia.  I agree Scholars do not cite Wikipedia, and I am not doing scholarly work.  No one the writes here are doing scholarly work."
 
To expound on the problem is not as easy as searching for a YouTube video or a Wiki statement.  There works of Lorene Bennett, J Hope Franklin; Francis Scott Weldon, and more.
 
You are incorrect in asserting that no one here employ scholarly materials. WB will chew you up if you come with crap as fact. I am glad that you admit that all the posts you have written here are not steeped in facts as you would want us to believe.
 
"The point I was trying to make was that colored or black communities were as vibrant and as intelligent despite segregation and Jim Crow. " 
 
Based on preceding, are you saying that the Supreme Court was wrong in saying separate but schools are abominable?
 
Anyway, I dont want to discourage you, but rather ask that you argue more facts as opposed to trying to score cheap points from old wives tale you are pushing as facts.
With regard to separate communities. The Government used the GI Bill to build all White communities in Levitt Town, Long Island and more place. It did not want Black and White soldiers marrying.
 
The ghetto projects were to keep Blacks in their place.
 
We should know this by now, so I will not labor the point.  What do we do going forward with a pending majority minority nation?
 
Suburb came about from White flight. As soon as Blacks moved in Whites moved out. That does not matter now, Whites are moving back to the city and pushing out Blacks. Good transportation, hospitals, restaurants, and more are the catalysis.
 
Still, a purpose of my post was to highlight issues extant to our growth as a multi racial nation. The graphic shows White men obeying the law, White women angry as hell, a brave little Black girl, and Whites in general wanting to perform a lynching. These are monumental milestones we must not tear down and forget, or try to make invisible with creative argument.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 12, 2017 - 1:48pm
@Lee. "The state of affairs right now in the USA does have a lot to do with historical developments.  It is not one political party versus another, it is more about advantages gained and maintained.  World history is replete with aggressive human beings using and abusing other human beings for advantages."
 
William's: How Europe Underdeveloped Africa is good reading. The exploitation of countries made some First World and others Third World. Then the Third Worlds are being ostracized for being a leeches on First World.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 12, 2017 - 1:54pm
A thousand years from now when archaeological digs are made of all digital blog sites, based on content analysis of posts, will they say WB was a shit pit or a finding of major significance?
Thomas Sutrina Added Sep 12, 2017 - 2:34pm
Dr. Green, you see the world through race glasses.  I do not, as an inventor engineer my standard approach is to know the history of a subject and then think through alternatives and check them.  It makes sense from personal experience.  Black people are as intelligent as white people and they figured out how to get around the Jim Crow and discrimination.  Thus I accept hearing from two sources.  they had a higher rate of entrepreneurs and some very successful ones at that.  This applies across the board to other areas from observation.  
 
This is out in left field, "Based on preceding, are you saying that the Supreme Court was wrong in saying separate but schools are abominable?"  
 
The federal court integrated the Rockford IL school system because the principles and board did not.  They though that they could continue what they were doing.  The action of the court is directly in opposition with your comment.  Rockford was not alone by a long shot facts I did look up some time ago.    The biggest complaint in integration was from parents both black and white that did not want there children bused. (also stated by Rockford parents)  Both wanted local schools to be improved instead of letting the schools stay the same and quasi fixing the problem by mixing up the race of the children by busing. 
 
The facts speak for themselves Dr. Green the schools themselves are only one part of the problem.  The homes of the children are an even stronger influence. (relative teachers with mixed race teachers and school said this often)
 
When a Black ghettos is created if follows logically also created are white ghettos etc.  (def of a ghetto is the gathering of one X into a neighborhood due to factors Y).  Economics and like me neighbors are the primary Y factors.  But government policy can create a ghetto by skewing economics same race as it did in the housing policy starting with FDR.  (city black ghettos suburbs white ghettos)
http://www.npr.org/2015/05/14/406699264/historian-says-dont-sanitize-how-our-government-created-the-ghettos
 
 
This is only one source so it is not up to scholarly standards, but Dr. Green it is also not an opinion.  The article also provided people and other sources that suggest accuracy.  
 
When you disagree with what I right at least provide ONE source of information.  So far I have just got your opinion with no supporting information. (trying to remember back)   Your comments apply to yourself far more then they apply to me.
Thomas Sutrina Added Sep 12, 2017 - 2:50pm
Dr. Green may parents-in-law did flee Markham IL  when the race of the neighborhood changed.  The housing value dropped so low that there house was under water and the defaulted on the loan as the only way to move out.  That did not always occur when a neighborhood mixture of race did not change above ~ 60%.  
 
Another relative left a neighborhood because of the increase in violence.  Did not want their boys in a gang.   One neighbor that their children played with was assassinated, contract killing because she broke up with a gang member a year before and he committed other crimes to end up in prison.  Her parent believe that her not wanting anything to do with him caused her death.   The first shots missed from the car.  It stopped a person got out and shot her as she hid while leaving the person she was walking with alone.  Assassinated. 
Jeff Michka Added Sep 12, 2017 - 3:44pm
Dr. Green writes: Rusty changed his watermelon in mouth avatar because he was enlightened as a result of our discussion.- Well, let's hope that was why.  Rusted Smith has some problematic views on things that haven't changed.  He would still run a black family out of his neighborhood on a rail, thinking it would devalue his "homestead" if they stayed.  Rusted couldn't back away from his trans hatred, attempting to hide behind "economics", despite a lengthy Rand study to the contrary.
John G Added Sep 12, 2017 - 6:46pm
Goldstein.  I don't know anything about public schools in America, but one thing strikes me: they produce too many socialists. That has to stop.
Comedy gold!!!!!!!!
John G Added Sep 12, 2017 - 6:47pm
Btw this Goldstein character believes that the Israel first hate merchant Pamela Geller is a scholar/philosopher.
Nut job.
Saint George Added Sep 12, 2017 - 7:06pm
By the way, this fluffer-nutter hater-character, skidmark-john-g, has posted from known fake news sites such as "MintPress" that intentionally propagate false stories about Israel. He also posts links to amateur videos on YouTube that he believes are scholarly or philosophical when, in fact, they're nothing more than propagandistic conspiracy-mongering. And now he's criticizing another poster for linking to something by Pamela Geller?
 
Pot-Kettle-Black.
John G Added Sep 12, 2017 - 7:10pm
known fake news sites such as "MintPress"
How very MSM of you. You anti-statist you. Lolz.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 12, 2017 - 7:39pm
Logical argument can be extended to absudity. Thank you all for your contribution.
Thomas Sutrina Added Sep 12, 2017 - 8:03pm
I dislike your lack of citations and then dumping this shit,"Anyway, I don't want to discourage you, but rather ask that you argue more facts as opposed to trying to score cheap points from old wives tale you are pushing as facts." I presented fact so where are yours?  FDR housing policy backed up.  successful black despite Jim Crow  backed up. 
 
Two pictures are not facts Dr. Green.  I can not find your facts.  I seem to never find your facts.  Your just hot or cold air.  
 
More facts:  http://www.investors.com/politics/columnists/thomas-sowell-if-black... (If Black Lives Matter, Why Doesn't Their Education?")
http://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/the-lefts-lies-about-u-s-p...(The Lefts Lies About U. S. Poverty Exposed)
Ref: "From No Choice to Forced Choice to School Choice: A History of Educational Options in Milwaukee Public Schools" Univ. of Wisc. Milwaukee UWM Digital Commons  These and Dissertations James Kenneth Nelsen  Aug. 2012
http://dailycaller.com/2011/06/04/walter-e-williams-on-welfare-as-govt-plays-father-blackmales-
have-become-dispensable/#ixzz40GiegQWe
http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2015/05/20/thetrueblacktragedyn2000459/
print

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/02/10/teacher-unions-fewer-half/23195433/
 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-04-07/news/ct-met-never-a-union-districts-20110407_1_school-districts-chicago-teachers-union-illinois-federation

http://www.thenewamerican.com/reviews/opinion/item/12791-unionized-teachers-flex-their-political-power
 
 
 
 
Saint George Added Sep 12, 2017 - 8:04pm
LOLzZ!
 
skidmark-g knowingly posts from fake news sites! Hee, hee!
Lee Webster Added Sep 12, 2017 - 8:20pm
Perhaps the intent is to capture the moral ground with descriptives of the problem and various causes without any hope for solutions to be analyzed.
 
Lets realize the horse is out of the barn, and realized beating a dead horse is not progress.  
 
If there is a solution, it is very complicated.
Rusty Smith Added Sep 12, 2017 - 11:56pm
Dr. Rupert Green yes I was speaking about college and you have done a very good job of pontificating on distantly related subjects without addressing the obvious question I asked, "So if getting the same education at an 87% discount is not doing enough, what would be?".
 
I did come right out and say I was not addressing fair, I was only addressing your own forum supposition which is that our current system denies Blacks the educational opportunities it give Whites.
 
You presented all sorts of cases where blacks have been discriminated against, and opinions why that happened, but failed to explain how come Blacks so so well with our modern college admission programs where contemporary Blacks clearly get given preferential admission and lower tuition than Whites, as a percentage of the applicants from both races.
 
Instead you parade out statistics about how few Blacks take advantage of these fantastic opportunities, and focus on how the overall percentage of Blacks who do go to college is less than Whites as though that means something.  Well I agree it does, but probably not what you think.
 
I have become convinced that the prevailing Black pity me attitude which causes a large percentage of Black children to grow up despising the thought of giving in to the man and doing well in school, is why they aren't doing as well as most Asians or Whites.
 
Quit blaming Whites for holding your kids back, and start blaming their parents, (when they are lucky enough to have both), for not insisting they get a good education and making sure they grow up knowing they are smart enough to do it.
 
There is a reason why most dirt poor Asians rise up out of poverty in one generation, and many Black families live in Generational poverty, and it's not because Blacks are too stupid to learn, or because White people have conspired to keep them out of college.
Rusty Smith Added Sep 13, 2017 - 12:05am
John G no I don't have any White employees who have had kids admitted to Ivy League colleges for any where near $8K, and I do know a few whose kids did attend them.  Some went into serious debt to do it, and one more is about to even though his son had straight A's all the way though High School.
 
The last one who did pay about $8k was a single mom, (never married dad, but lives with him), took all her and her kids money out of the bank over 6 months before her kid applied, and they are not White.  He was not stupid, he's quite bright and did a lot of community service before applying, that helps a lot.  She doesn't earn a real lot, that helped too.  The more the parents make, and more the parents and kids have in the bank, the more the tuition is.  I'm not sure if race helps but a lack of money on paper sure does and many times more Blacks come from "poor" families than Whites as a percentage of applicants.  That, not discrimination is why I think more Blacks than Whites as a percentage of race, get more tuition discounts.
John G Added Sep 13, 2017 - 1:16am
Well that's quite a different tune you're singing isn't it? Quite why you put scare quotes around poor is a mystery though.
Saint George Added Sep 13, 2017 - 2:46am
Probably because the word "poor", especially in the U.S., has no objective and uniform meaning, dunce.
 
A stockbroker who earns $200K/year is "poor" compared to Bill Gates.
 
Get it?
John G Added Sep 13, 2017 - 4:49am
You're ensuring that this web site as as successful as it deserves to be.
The attraction that this stuff presents to prospective writers and readers is immeasurable.
Saint George Added Sep 13, 2017 - 5:14am
Thank you for your contributions to this Web site. They fill a much-needed gap.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 13, 2017 - 5:40am
I told you Rusty is a reasonable person who subscribes to learning-- the change in behavior due to the acquesition of new knowledge.
 
@ Rusty.  "" yes I was speaking about college and you have done a very good job of pontificating on distantly related subjects without addressing the obvious question I asked, "So if getting the same education at an 87% discount is not doing enough, what would be?"."
 
Did not answer because I would be justifying a meritless question.
 
"You presented all sorts of cases where blacks have been discriminated against, and opinions why that happened, but failed to explain how come Blacks so so well with our modern college admission programs where contemporary Blacks clearly get given preferential admission and lower tuition than Whites, as a percentage of the applicants from both races."
 
You are right regarding financial aid distribution leveling the playing field for Blacks.  That is a result of addressing the Court orders and Federal legislation regarding equal opportunity and previous disparate treatment. I did allude that you would have to spend more on a bright Black child from Appalachia compared to one from Vermont to effectuate fair treatment. You can look at it in the context of giving a bright Black child whose parents make $40K PA a leg up on a White Child whose parents make $500K PA. Is such reverse discrimination in your view?
 
However, as sport scholarships once gave Blacks a leg up to college is being eliminated, so too is the opportunity to higher financial aid. The following is informative. 
 
"In 2007–08, a higher percentage of Black full-time, full-year undergraduate students received financial aid than did White, Hispanic, Asian, and Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander full-time, full-year undergraduates and full-time, full-year undergraduates of two or more races."
 
"If we look only those students attending four-year colleges and universities on a full-time basis, we find that 35.1 percent of white students and 26.9 percent of black students received merit-based grants. Nearly 40 percent of white students and 70.6 percent of black students received need-based financial aid.
 
Since whites are more likely than blacks to receive merit-based scholarships, the shift in financial aid toward grants based on merit rather than need, as was the case in the 1996 to 2008 period tracked in this study, will benefit whites and lessen the higher educational opportunities of African Americans."
 
Link.
 
I am not posting to advance learned helplessness in Blacks and to ascribe blame to the other man.  I have been a champion of quality education, outlining how Blacks must take the opportunity now available to them. (The future of our nation depends on it.)
 
My research papers explain factors such as the immigration effect, parent child raising style, and expectation as reason why foreign born Black children out perform native Black children.
 
I am an immigrant. Between three of my children, there are 6 Masters ( e.g., Chemistry, Computational Chemistry, MBE, MSEE) and three bachelors. I am a role model for higher educational attainment, not blaming the other man. My son being an Afghanistan vet and a Major in the Army Reserve demonstrates we pay it forward to defend our nation, not just being a leech on it.
 
 
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 13, 2017 - 8:00am
@John G. "You're ensuring that this web site as as successful as it deserves to be. The attraction that this stuff presents to prospective writers and readers is immeasurable."
 
You are absolutely right on above. When I want info to warrant my claims of foolishness or scholarly works, I consult the work of certain Writers on WB.
 
I Know we can make money and advance WB by select writers collaborating to write grant supported books, video, etc to do so. I will strenuously champion it after my political run.
 
 
Lee Webster Added Sep 13, 2017 - 8:23am
The conventional wisdom does seem to favor a strategy to reverse the historically 'unfair' advantages.  It's complicated because the advantages are too great, and the disadvantages are too numerous.
 
What ever the solution we attempt, someone will feel cheated.
 
Success in life is a matter of perspective. For some, having the elite Ivy League education and degrees is success whether or not a satisfying career comes along afterward.  That is the subjective component to this subject that must not be ignored.  It is extremely difficult to ensure that each of us has a healthy and balanced direction and goals for life.  Additionally, no one is static, we develop, we may advance from poor thinking to a pragmatic way of life or any other multitude of directions.
 
Social engineering does do its best to corral the human herd among the various countries and societies and cultures.  Hopelessness breeds chaos and anarchy which must be avoided so that the best of this society can continue to make progress towards the good.
Rusty Smith Added Sep 13, 2017 - 10:02pm
John G I would point out I have not changed my tune, just clarified what I previously said and put it in a fuller context.  Many people, sometimes including myself, jump to conclusions based on partial pictures they gleam from statements that they don't completely understand.
 
As for your question about why I  put quotes around "poor", well that to requires an explanation to understand.  I personally know of many "poor" single moms, who drive very expensive cars, live in very expensive neighborhoods, sport lots of very expensive clothes, go on very expensive vacations, but at the same time are considered "poor", because they are not married to their hubby's and either don't work or practically don't work.  Some only get alimony from X's they divorced, and don't want to loose it so they don't remarry, but it really doesn't matter, they are very affluent in every way but what counts when they apply for government assistance, and tuition breaks for their children.
 
It's rather amazing to me that I have neighbors whose kids get huge tuition discounts, and even handed grants and given jobs my kids don't qualify for because they are single, and my wife is married to me. 
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 13, 2017 - 10:35pm
Bad that family values has gone out of the door.   White ladies are "acting Blacks" and having out of wedlock children. It is being glorified on TV with "Baby bumps."
Rusty Smith Added Sep 13, 2017 - 10:36pm
Dr. Rupert Green  I don't think my question about how much is enough of a leg up to give to Black kids is irrevelant, you obviously think what's done is not enough and must have some ultimate goal in mine.  It would be nice to hear you state it so we can see how reasonable it sounds and when you refuse it does make you look as though you realize what you want is gong to sound totally unreasonable.
 
I do try to answer your questions, and speaking of such regarding your question about giving preferential treatment to a poor black kid from a $40K a year income over a white kid from a rich $500K a year family, I'm inclined to remove RACE from the picture entirely.  Where you view the color of a student's skin as a very important factor I only see the economics of producing the highest possible producing next generation workers we can, and don't see a benefit to social engineering them so that Blacks are equally represented.
 
I would not allow race in the equation at all, not as a discriminating factor or as an enhancing factor because it has nothing to do with academic performance.  If I can solicit applicants for jobs in other states, interview and hire them without knowing what color their skin is, certainly colleges can admit students based on their previous academic performance and testing without knowing what color their skin is.  The last person I hired is 2,000 miles away, I've had many conversations with them but won't meet them for another few weeks.
 
About those scholarships, I may not know much about sports but one of my friends at work is a part time recruiter so I know a little about that game.  Most Black athletes who get athletic scholarships do very poorly academically, and according to my friend it's because serious workouts take a lot of time so it's very unusual to find an athlete who excels in sports and academics.  White students tend to pursue academic scholarships as a means to get into college, they go for academic performance and when they do get in college are much more likely to pursue and achieve academic goals than the average Black student.
 
If indeed if you and your children have excelled as much as you say above, that proves to me that your skin color did not hold you or them back from success and neither should it hold most other Black kids back, if their parents gave a damn like you did.  I'm sure you didn't tell your kids school is a waste of their time and encourage them to blow off the teachers.  
 
I rather doubt your skin color is what made you a success, or that you wouldn't be successful if the system hadn't pushed more qualified White people out of the way so you could pretend you were better than they are or give you a chance you otherwise weren't smart enough to earn though your own efforts.
 
Every time you push for rules that push Black kids to the front of the line so they can become equal to White people, you inadvertently tell them that you think they aren't smart enough to do it themselves.  I'd like to think that's not what you really want to do.
Lee Webster Added Sep 15, 2017 - 9:05am
Just because the solution is extremely complex does not mean that attempts to resolve disadvantages should be ignored.  But, when the advantages are won by the distance ancestry it does look to be unfair to blame the modern day influential and economic prodigy.
 
In most cases the advantages are not so straight forward nor are the disadvantages as to who is in that particular group due to the mix of populations over time.
 
The American Indians however, do seem to be one of the most visible to have directly have straight forward evidence.  The strategies there for reversing disadvantages with casinos and other special treatment are piecemeal but better than nothing. At the same time it is all an attempt to help show some sort of repentance for past deeds.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 15, 2017 - 10:11am
@Rusty. "I rather doubt your skin color is what made you a success, or that you wouldn't be successful if the system hadn't pushed more qualified White people out of the way so you could pretend you were better than they are or give you a chance you otherwise weren't smart enough to earn though your own efforts."
 
I am an immigrant. Immigrants accounts for more than half of the advance STEM degrees given by US universities. Immigrants outperform native born Americans. c  Cannot see how an illegal immigrant sleeping on the train and accepted into an Ivy League university did so at the expense of a White.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 15, 2017 - 10:28am
@ Mr. Yoder. "Rupert, in all honesty, what the white people are saying by lowering standards, "No child left behind, and now the Pope kissing and washing "Colored" feet.
( notice no American Indians on his platform) is simply just what you fear; patronization."
 
Dont be misled, No Child Left Behind (NCLB) was not about lowering standards, it is about advancing America's Democratic Ideals and way of life. It is also a God send for Blacks, Latinos, and Native Americans, whose education it stipulated. 
 
Consider in the past when monies were sent to educate minorities, schools spent the monies on wealthier Whites, offered Blacks inferior education, and fudge the books--hihiding the poor performance of Blacks among the data.
 
NCLB calls for dis aggregation of data all groups by race and other metrics. That is why state fought it for more than 10 years.
NCLB is futuristic in seeing the nation would one day be a majority minority. Can dunces defend America and the world in an increasingly dangerous and high tech world?
 
 
Lee Webster Added Sep 15, 2017 - 11:42am
Can we agree that the idea of a 'majority minority' is a prediction and not a fact?  It is a forecast and not a reality?  A lot can happen to determine population mixtures that can be unexpected and unplanned.  Wars happen, diseases happen, laws on immigration happen, economic changes happen, etc., etc.
 
There are extreme generalizations about various groups and what is expected/anticipated of them all around us.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 15, 2017 - 4:41pm
"Tap dance for me! Sing for me!
That is all you are allowed to do.
If that cuts you, I have some salt for your wound.
Be yourself."
 
Mr. Yoder. In my post I apply the snake style. The mother fucker walks without feet, so he must have some smarts I could use or learn from.
 
"Nothing in politics happens by accident; if it happens you can bet it was not by accident"
 
You mean offering the Native Americans blankets laced with talcum powder to whiten their skin. and they ended up mysteriously dying? Shit, the cat, Lee is onto something. They can put chicken pox in chicken wings. You know who that shit would kill.
Lee Webster Added Sep 15, 2017 - 6:30pm
Some humans do not behave humanely.  The worst can happen but there are also good people.  The problems do include that good intentions do not guaranty good solutions with appropriate results.  Certain aspects of limited freedoms tend to allow individual failures.  Should you blame those who are followers, or blame the leaders?  The most clever do rise to the top in the control process.
Rusty Smith Added Sep 15, 2017 - 8:41pm
Dr. Rupert Green  well let me help you, but without the reference to race that you seem so preoccupied with.
 
Whenever an institution offers one person a substantial discount on services below the cost to provide those services, they must raise the cost to other customers in order to break even.
 
The reason is not important, the fiscal equation doesn't have a "race" or "disadvantaged", "legal status" or a "poor" factor, it costs what it costs to provide the service and providing it for less for any reason requires an equal adjustment be made in the other direction.
 
So in your example, providing a poor disadvantaged illegal immigrant with something of value for free without taking the money to provide it from someone else and when you do you should not be surprised if the people you take it from are not too pleased.
 
I know many middle class families that might be able to afford to send their own kids to college if the tuition were not so high and taxes and fees used to help less affluent kids was not TAKEN from them.  If I were in that category, yes, I'd be pissed too, because before I help put any disadvantaged person in college, I think I need to be able to put my own kid in college.
 
So tell me would you have been pissed if your children hadn't been able to afford college because the price had been raised enough to subsidize even poorer students?  Or does the fact that they are probably Black somehow make it ok for you to be pissed, becasuse they aren't White?
Lee Webster Added Sep 15, 2017 - 11:06pm
Is there a proper method to resolve imbalances and poverty? Is it even fair to resolve imbalances and poverty; and if so, why?
 
Answering the question of why will get you to a point of discussing unjust rules and immoral authorities, but also we need to deal honestly with what is natural in the way the world has been working for human beings that gain, have, loss, and regain power and control over others.
 
Academic education is as important as learning basic values for emotional intelligence. Systemic, generational poverty does exist. There are educated homeless people living on the streets in the USA also.
Rusty Smith Added Sep 16, 2017 - 11:36am
Lee Webster you've asked a good question and I think most people think it's a good thing to help people who can't help themselves, but lots like me no longer believe it's helpful to the majority to offer that help by handing them money or "unfairly" giving them obvious and unearned advantages.  Doing so does many things.
 
First we know it creates jealousy and creates hostility against those getting unfairly distributed benefits, especially when the cost of giving them a leg up makes it difficult or impossible for those who are being asked to dig a little deeper can't afford the same benefits as they are sponsoring for the poor.
 
In the educational world we have a large segment of the middle class who don't qualify for substantial assistance and are not sending their kids to college as a result, at the same time as they see their taxes sending "poor" families kids to college for prices they could easily afford.  Of course they are not pleased.
 
Now about "unfairly", I and Dr Rubert Green are probably going to have to disagree on this one.  He seems to believe the sins of past generations do entitle future generations for special considerations from the decedents, and I don't think that can or should be applied in educational settings because the decedents are not responsible or substantially held back by transgressions in the past.  Obama's past did not hold him back and at this point in time don't see any reason why other people born today can't work hard in school and excel on their own.
 
Dr. Rubert Green is also very fond of statistics that show Blacks in particular are not equally represented proportional to their population statistics, in many ways that he considers discriminatory.   I strongly disagree with his statistical foundation.
 
Poor Blacks in particular are underrepresented in many places because their general cultural values tend to push them in other directions.  Even Dr. Green is unlikely to try and make us believe the focus on getting a good education in most poor Black neighborhoods is as strong as the focus is among dirt poor Asian immigrants who don't even speak English when they get here.  It is that focus, not a racially discriminatory disadvantage that I blame for the ongoing failure poor black families inspiring their children to get good educations, at the same time as equally poor and often language challenged Asians do generally inspire their kids to get great educations.
 
I grew up in a world that was 90% White but my children grew  up in a world that was very diverse and their public schools were all about 15% white.  They constantly told me how the students segregated themselves into groups and had totally different attitudes towards schoolwork.  The best seemed to be the Asians whose families often gave them heck if they weren't at the top of their class.  On the other end of the spectrum were the Black students who made fun of each other if they did anything that resembled paying attention, cooperating with a teacher, or "wasting their time" on things like homework.  With attitude differences like that how can anyone be surprised fewer Blacks get admitted to college, or that if they lower the standards so they can be admitted with lower test scors, that they don't do as well once they get in there.
 
We've tried the throw money at it thing, and the "just let them in", and it's not succeeded in making them "equal".  It's time to try something else like improving educational values in the poor Black communities.
Lee Webster Added Sep 16, 2017 - 7:30pm
True there are winners and losers.  But there are also groups carrying remnants of hopelessness that manifest in self destructive fashions. It seems foolish to blame ancestry without having viable answers. Education can't be forced on some towards ensuring positive productive outcomes. The needs are much deeper and more complicated. But that goes down towards victim hood.
 
One problem that seems often missed is that the solutions and theories tend to end up with unintended bad consequences that lower the quality of life for an increased number of people than if things were left alone.
 
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 17, 2017 - 11:30am
@ Rusty. You said some poignant and true shit that speak to family value, teachers and parents' expectation, parent child rearing style, the immigrant effect, acting Black, and acting White that I have written about in various studies. We cannot over look that despite the government massive spending to offer Blacks quality education, unscrupulous Whites educrats have siphoned money off and offered inferior education. The government is now offering billions in grants to offer alternative STEM education to augment public school education. It is concerned that in an increasingly dangerous and high tech world, we cannot have dunce running America. In less than 25 years, Blacks combined  with Latinos and another "minority" group will assume majority status. 
Lee Webster Added Sep 17, 2017 - 4:51pm
If you have not seen the movie Idiocracy, I would recommend that you watch it for learning another perspective on the over reliance on technology.  In that movie the general common-sense was nonsense as the people lost the ability to think through simple mundane  problems because tech had been relied on to do so many daily tasks.
 
The current tech and statistical gurus are assuring us a lot of future occurrences, including what the population mix will be in the U.S.  These same folks were seemingly assured of the last election results too, but they were very wrong in their miscalculations.
Dino Manalis Added Sep 17, 2017 - 5:38pm
We need to take poverty out of our education, public school choice has to be universal, while private schools, like colleges, ought to provide financial aid.  Pre-K needs to be part of every elementary school, while high school graduation must be required in the 21st Century.  Colleges have to be affordable with extremely low interest rates on loans, while tuition hikes should be limited to inflation.  It's very important for recruiters to advise students and schools on pertinent job skills and schools have to deliver.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 18, 2017 - 7:17am
@ Lee. "If you have not seen the movie Idiocracy, I would recommend that you watch it for learning another perspective on the over reliance on technology.  In that movie the general common-sense was nonsense as the people lost the ability to think through simple mundane  problems because tech had been relied on to do so many daily tasks."
 
I dont have to watch movies to see the impact of technology dumbing down of people. I saw a picture on FB of a buzzard proceeding to eat an emaciated child put out to die and people clicked "LIKE."  The grocery lost power and the supermarket cashiers could not check out grocery.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 18, 2017 - 7:20am
@ Dino. "We need to take poverty out of our education, public school choice has to be universal, while private schools, like colleges, ought to provide financial aid.  Pre-K needs to be part of every elementary school, while high school graduation must be required in the 21st Century. "
 
Compulsory education is required in the US. I propose socioeconomic integration, where no school has more than 30% of students on poverty.
Lee Webster Added Sep 18, 2017 - 10:16am
Irrationally throwing $$$ to solve problems is a thing that helps to make people rich. Irrationally throwing education at problems to solve social ills is a thing too.
 
The unresolved fight is whether or not that educating ought to be standardized federally, statewide, regionally, and/or by BOE district, etc. It is a very serious matter as to what is being taught, and how the subject matters are taught, and also the ultimate purpose of what is to be taught.
 
STEM education is necessary but it should not be so much of a priority that vocational trades education is pushed into obscurity.  There is also concerns about the lack of Civics Education.  The nation has been undergoing gradual shifts socially that have caused confusion about identity individually and as a peoples, or as a country.  In some locales patriotism is a negative idea.
George N Romey Added Sep 18, 2017 - 1:24pm
Unfortunately education is no longer the cure for eliminating poverty. If it was this would be an easier fix. Instead a change in our business mix that is based upon low wages and technology replacing human effort have killed social mobility. We need to rethink and restructure the world of work and types of business. A study of jobs created under Obama showed 94% of those jobs to be part time, temporary or gig. We aren't curing poverty we are adding to it.
Lee Webster Added Sep 18, 2017 - 5:39pm
Reminiscent of the "War on Poverty" ; "War on Drugs" proclamations that failed in the communities, but the $$$ did line the pockets of the few on the inside track.
Mike Haluska Added Sep 19, 2017 - 11:00am
Democrats and the Teachers Union have had a monopolistic control over Public Education for decades.  They have deliberately "dumbed down" the population, filled students with politically correct crap, got rid of hard sciences in favor of "gender studies" and replaced "Huckleberry Finn" with "Heather Has Two Mommies".  The center piece of their colossal destruction of public education has been the elimination of Civics class - God forbid that students are taught how the government is supposed to function!!!
Mike Haluska Added Sep 19, 2017 - 11:09am
Dr Green -
 
The primary reason that Black children do poorly in school, get involved with gangs, use drugs, have children out of wedlock, etc. has NOTHING to do with economics and everything to do with the Democratic Party's Welfare State.  The Welfare State policies reinforce behavior (having children out of wedlock) that keeps them in poverty and punish behavior that lifts them out of poverty (working).  They are deliberately kept poor and ignorant to maintain their dependency - thus ensuring an ever growing voter base.
 
What the Democrats do is appalling - what people like you who endorse it and call for more of it is immoral and traitorous. 
Lee Webster Added Sep 19, 2017 - 1:26pm
The cause(s) for the cycle of poverty and despair is/are varied.  It's old News.  The real issue is an unwillingness to craft together the myriad of strategies that actually work.
 
There are certainly pragmatic approaches that could work, but the medicine (package of solutions) would be bitter and painful initially.  It would have to involve things that are voluntary and involuntary upon the needy.
 
That package of solutions might have to include such things as reconstituting the systems of institutions of the past with a more modern structure where orphanages could be used to break the cycle of welfare among the youth that live in despair and in crime ridden, gang infested communities.  The package of solution might also include expanded mental inpatient institutions, but that will only work when the experts become more responsible with demanding for more involuntary inpatient treatment.  Allowing people with limited mental capacity to make decisions about being committed seems off the mark.  How can someone who is irrational be asked to honestly make a rational decision?  
Mike Haluska Added Sep 20, 2017 - 9:54am
Lee - your "package of solutions" applies to those individuals that are either physically or mentally nor capable of caring for themselves.  The vast majority of those on various "anti-poverty programs" are fully capable of working and CHOOSE NOT TO!
 
It is unjust to those who do work and immoral to those on "anti-poverty programs" to allow anyone capable of work to receive aid and not perform some public service in kind. 
Lee Webster Added Sep 20, 2017 - 10:36pm
Mike Haluska
What you said makes good sense - "It is unjust to those who do work and immoral to those on "anti-poverty programs" to allow anyone capable of work to receive aid and not perform some public service in kind."
 
The package of solutions would have to include more than what I mentioned of course.  The portions that I stated as part of that package that would refer to the children are necessary to interrupt the cycle of generational welfare and poverty.  Those kids need to be raised by rational people who live in a safe and structured environment to reverse the delinquent behaviors to a point that as adults they will be productive.  
 
The Welfare to Work programs of the 1990s did have a component that required able bodied people to do a work activity in order to receive welfare.  That program has slipped backwards, and needs to be revived, modernized.
Mike Haluska Added Sep 21, 2017 - 12:11pm
Lee - thanks for the supportive post.  I also am convinced that if we drastically reduced the size and cost of government by eliminating all government agencies not called for in the Constitution, the full economic benefits of Free Market Capitalism would be unleashed and the need for so many programs would be minimalized.
Lee Webster Added Sep 23, 2017 - 2:06am
It is true that government bureaucracy often stymies the free market system, but so does the avalanche of law suits.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 23, 2017 - 7:49am
Can we trust businesses to do the right thing when the quest for profit resulted in businesses feeding animal remains to cattle, people replacing deceased human bones with PBC pipes, selling the bones, and so much more?
 
Lee Webster Added Sep 23, 2017 - 12:27pm
Businesses are people!  Trusting people is a dicey art.  That is why the attempt for checks & balances.
 
Some people do not behave humanely.  The worst can happen but there are also good people.  The problem is that good intentions do not guarantee good solutions with appropriate results.
Mike Haluska Added Sep 26, 2017 - 1:58pm
Dr. Green:
Nobody wants to eliminate common sense regulations and laws.  Our existing Civil & Criminal Code covers 99.99% of the type of activities you describe.  I oppose regulations, taxes, laws, tariffs, etc. that restrict/forbid the entry of competition into a market.  I oppose government subsidies of all types for any purpose - no matter what industry.
 
The government should function as a referee, not giving an advantage or preferential treatment to any individual, business or industry.  In the area of foreign competition, I would only trade with nations that allowed their currency exchange rate to fluctuate freely according to the market. 
Jeff Michka Added Sep 27, 2017 - 4:44pm
Lee W CLAIMS: Businesses are people!  Trusting people is a dicey art.  That is why the attempt for checks & balances.-Guess that means Citizen United was a good ruling, eh, Lee?  Those corporations only needed the protection of being people to behave humanely.  That's worked out real well, hasn't it?
Jeff Michka Added Sep 27, 2017 - 8:35pm
Geo "do nuthin'" Romey sez: A study of jobs created under Obama showed 94% of those jobs to be part time, temporary or gig.-I'm sure you have a cite for that, right? Or is this just another line in the "Geo Narrative?"  Got a feeling it's a line in your narrative, Geo.