Terrorism is not as bad as we are led to believe.

 

Every death is a tragedy. Every injury too. Terrorism is deplorable, evil and disgusting. The fact that somebody actually sits down in cold blood and plans ways to kill and mutilate innocent civilians is almost beyond belief. Those people are heartless scum. The act is somehow made worse when it is religiously motivated. For anyone to believe that any god would be pleased that they have mutilated women and children shows some sick thinking. For any religion or sect to believe that it alone has the correct insight into the thinking of god is arrogant stupidity. For any terrorist bomber of innocent people to believe they will be rewarded by any god and wake up in paradise is fanciful brain-washing. No sane god would sanction such a thing. If there was a god, which I do not believe, they would certainly book those callous terrorists into the worst hell imaginable.

 

Terrorism is horrendous because it is designed to terrorise. It is intended that the fear it creates is out of proportion to the reality. It is designed to produce terror and division.

 

To that extent Islamic terrorism has succeeded. It has produced widespread fear, division and hate. It has produced racism aimed against the peaceful Muslim community, distrust of Muslims and a rise in fascism and xenophobia. This fear was used extensively in the Brexit and Trump campaigns to divide and create hysteria which could be directed to produce a populist result. We now have what the terrorists set out to produce - chaos and division. Both Brexit and the election of Trump have brought Britain and the US into unnecessary chaos and division, stoked up hatred and emboldened fascist minorities.

 

I contend that this fear is out of proportion. Terrorism is horrendous but the terror it has produced, resulting in this chaos and siege mentality, is nowhere near as great as it appears in our imagination.

By creating such disruption and public fear the terrorists have achieved what they set out to do. They have made us weaker and divided us. Without this exaggerated fear they generated, neither the harmful disarray of Brexit or damaging election of Trump would have happened. Xenophobia, the fear of immigrants, demonising of Muslims and Mexicans, the building of walls, tightening of immigration laws, exclusion of foreigners, all go against natural warmth of welcome and openness of our culture. We have been fed lies about rape, murder, crime, terrorism, jobs, religions, no-go areas, Islamification and threats to our culture that are out of proportion to the reality. Yes there has been too much mass immigration and not enough integration. Yes there has been some crime, some rapes and areas where there are concentrations of minority groups. But these have been built up out of all proportion. Most immigrants are not extreme or terrorists but are grateful for being given a haven. They have escaped from war, starvation and horror. They have a new start.

 

Is this response to terrorism justified? I think not.

 

I am not belittling the effects of terrorism. It is horrendous. I am merely putting it in proportion and saying that it is not as bad as it appears. The horrors in the news show the terrible outcomes but the incidents are relatively few and minor in light of the bigger picture.

 

Death and injury are unfortunately part of everyday life. People are killed, maimed and become terminally ill all the time. Every one of those deaths, diseases and injuries is a tragedy for individuals, families, friends and colleagues. We are all touched by it. But terrorism plays a tiny part in this overall scheme of things.

 

I will illustrate what I mean by the statistics from the UK. I chose a 15 year period from 2000 - 2015.

All Deaths in UK (aprox) - 7,500,000

 

Deaths from road accidents - 51,006

 

Deaths from murder - 6,750

 

Deaths from Air crashes (estimate) - 6000

 

Deaths from terrorism - 90

 

In fact the deaths from IRA terrorism in the 1980s was much worse. Yet the effect of those terrible 90 deaths (and the hundreds of people maimed and injured) creates a public fear that is out of all proportion. You are 566 times more likely to be killed in an accident on the roads yet we do not get totally paranoid about driving. We accept that as a fact of life, an acceptable risk. Is that because we are under the illusion that we are somehow in control of what happens on the road? As someone who has survived a serious accident I know that we are not. When something happens at speed there is nothing you can do.

 

Terrorism plays on our psyche because of the deliberate callous act of mass murder. Yet your chances of being caught up in it are minimal.

 

I believe it is time to put this illogical fear out of our minds. We cannot allow the terrorists to win like this. These brainwashed evil extremists should not be allowed to cause such division, hatred and mayhem. They are not the menace we think they are. It is time to put the threat in proportion. Terrorism's whole purpose is to achieve this reaction from us. We cannot let them do this.

 

Don't let the evil, brainwashed monsters win. Unite and reach out. We're better together. Let's build a caring, open society, not a fear-ridden xenophobic culture skulking behind walls.

 

Comments

opher goodwin Added Oct 7, 2017 - 7:19pm
The sensationalism of the media likes to blow things out of proportion in order to get footfall. The 11,000 a year killed by guns in the USA is not something they want to focus on. The small number of people killed by terrorists makes a better story.
George N Romey Added Oct 7, 2017 - 7:27pm
It’s the fear factor designed to get votes. However here in the US it’s effectiveness is wearing off. People see through the bs.
opher goodwin Added Oct 7, 2017 - 7:30pm
George - I'm not sure they are here in the UK. The fear of terrorism has led to a whole new level of general fear, xenophobia, Islamophobia, and fear of immigrants and free movement. That's what created Brexit and Trump.
John G Added Oct 7, 2017 - 7:32pm
The fact that somebody actually sits down in cold blood and plans ways to kill and mutilate innocent civilians is almost beyond belief. 
We call these people the military.
opher goodwin Added Oct 7, 2017 - 7:33pm
John G - sadly, in many cases, that has been and is true too.
John G Added Oct 7, 2017 - 7:42pm
I'd say that 'terrorism' had nought to do with the Brexit vote or Trump's election though it's a nice meme if you're a liberal looking to absolve yourself and your liberal class of blame.
The fact is that people no longer believe the neoliberal bullshit that the liberal class has wedded itself to.
Listen to Mark Blyth on 'Global Trumpism'. 
And Brexit is a good thing for the UK. Ridding yourselves of the corporatist kleptocracy that is the EU can only be a positive.
opher goodwin Added Oct 7, 2017 - 7:46pm
John G - totally disagree. The media were awash with fear and hatred. The xenophobia, racism and Islamophobia was palpable. They scared people into voting Brexit.
There's lots wrong with the EU but being an inward, racist isolated country is not the way forward.
Nationalism is as bad as patriotism - detestable.
John G Added Oct 7, 2017 - 7:51pm
There's lots wrong with the EU but being an inward, racist isolated country is not the way forward.
Another of your false dilemmas. Being in or out of the EU has no bearing on that.
The media were awash with fear and hatred. The xenophobia, racism and Islamophobia was palpable. They scared people into voting Brexit.
'People' listen to the media less than you. People are sick of your liberal media and political class.
They hate Blairites and Nulabour more than they hate the Tories.
Getting out of the EU is a prerequisite for overturning the neoliberal orthodoxy and the stupid austerity obsession.
You 3rd wayers are finished. Get used to it.
Autumn Cote Added Oct 7, 2017 - 11:43pm
Some friendly advice...to improve readability, add white space between paragraphs.  As always, many thanks for your participation with Writer Beat!
Tikno Added Oct 8, 2017 - 12:07am
Opher, media more clever at picking the news that is considered best-selling for sale.
John G Added Oct 8, 2017 - 1:18am
So your brother was off duty at home when he was attacked by a terrorist?
John G Added Oct 8, 2017 - 1:50am
So he was active military in a foreign land. So how does that make it terrorism?
John G Added Oct 8, 2017 - 2:14am
Well the USA created Al Qaeda buddy. And your brother chose to join the US military, which terrorises the planet on behalf of US corporations that wish to economically rape the rest of us.
Whilst I appreciate the tragedy and wish your brother no ill will or harm, his actions and the actions of the USA have consequences.
The industrial slaughter of muslims by the US armed forces over the past few decades doesn't go unnoticed in the muslim world. 
To you, they are collateral damage. 
What do you think they think of your loss?
John G Added Oct 8, 2017 - 2:28am
Pathetic.
 
opher goodwin Added Oct 8, 2017 - 4:36am
Tikno - they do pick the news to promote sales but there is also a political agenda.
opher goodwin Added Oct 8, 2017 - 4:41am
John G - you couldn't be more wrong. The segment of ill-educated lower class were bombarded with sensational, lying headlines about immigrants, rapes, terrorist infiltration, Corbyn's relationship with and support for terrorists and open access from Europe. It was a barrage that had a huge effect. The Express, Mail, Telegraph and Sun were relentless and scandalous. What they did was a brainwashing propaganda campaign and I know how effective it was at getting that false message out there from speaking to my family (all brexiteers), my ex-colleagues and the wave of responses on my blog. In a campaign that was so tight it was the wave of racism, Islamophobia and xenophobia that tipped the balance.
opher goodwin Added Oct 8, 2017 - 4:44am
John G - your world view is simply not shared by many people. You are far too partisan. The world is much more complex than you portray.
John G Added Oct 8, 2017 - 5:06am
 It was a barrage that had a huge effect. 
You think it had a huge effect because the press you read tells you it did.
The remainers engaged in equally scurrilous propaganda.
Not everyone is as gullible as you are.
John G Added Oct 8, 2017 - 5:07am
 You are far too partisan.
Really? Name the party then.
John G Added Oct 8, 2017 - 5:11am
 your world view is simply not shared by many people.
That may well be true.
I don't believe anything on the basis of its popularity.
Unlike you.
John G Added Oct 8, 2017 - 5:23am
The segment of ill-educated lower class
To me you are worse than ill-educated. You are misinformed and obtuse.
The people you refer to despise you and your class of ignorant snobbish tossers. And rightly so.
You know nothing about the economics of it all. Absolutely nothing at all.
John G Added Oct 8, 2017 - 5:55am
 In a campaign that was so tight it was the wave of racism, Islamophobia and xenophobia that tipped the balance.
But you're a racist and islamophobe and you voted to Bremain.
opher goodwin Added Oct 8, 2017 - 6:37am
John G - I know it had an effect because of the effect on the many people I know - nothing to do with the media telling me. I'm not gullible but you are one-track.
opher goodwin Added Oct 8, 2017 - 6:38am
John G - your party is the extreme narrow view of Western Culture. In your eyes everything is does and stands for is wrong while everything the rest of the world does is beyond reproach.
The truth is in the middle.
opher goodwin Added Oct 8, 2017 - 6:40am
John G - I didn't say your extreme view is popular. It isn't. You believe what you want to believe and are totally intolerant and abusive to anyone who believes differently to you.
opher goodwin Added Oct 8, 2017 - 6:43am
John G - To me you are worse than ill-educated. You are misinformed and obtuse.
The people you refer to despise you and your class of ignorant snobbish tossers. And rightly so.
You know nothing about the economics of it all. Absolutely nothing at all. 
An example of intolerant, abusive arrogant claptrap. You set yourself up as a spokesperson for people you know nothing about and claim to have superior knowledge and understanding of everything. Yet when you explain (rarely) yourself you merely gather information from dubious extreme sources that you believe implicitly and are unable to debate.
opher goodwin Added Oct 8, 2017 - 6:48am
John G - you see - more abusive stupidity - I am not a racist. I am not an Islamophobe. I voted to Remain. Your lack of being able to accept any criticism of things you hold dear is a failing of yours. I've challenged you on it many times and you always fail miserably to condemn abhorrent practices. As I said your silence on paedophilia, female genital mutilation, slavery, intolerance, and misogyny speaks volumes. You know - you can criticise a culture or religion. It is allowed. It doesn't make you either racist or phobic.
opher goodwin Added Oct 8, 2017 - 6:50am
Autumn - thank you - I have addressed that issue.
Dino Manalis Added Oct 8, 2017 - 8:29am
I don't blame terrorism for the lack of pro-growth policies, but protecting ourselves has tremendous costs, which require us to have a stronger economy, central banks can't lift the economy, only the executive and legislative branches can do that with policies that invigorate consumer and business confidence and spending.  Effectively dealing with terrorism has to be much more about defense than offense.
opher goodwin Added Oct 8, 2017 - 9:58am
Dino - thank you for that. That is an element of terrorism that I did not pick up on.
Katharine Otto Added Oct 8, 2017 - 2:45pm
Opher,
Good post and comments.  I'm glad you pointed out the media's tendency to sensationalize and exaggerate terrorist activities.  However, the US government has turned the 9/11 event into an excuse for perpetual war on all things Muslim, as well as huge power grabs at home.  Rather than preach tolerance, our government has led the way in preaching hate and fear.  We are paranoid for good reason.
 
I would contend that the US has brought Islamic terrorism on itself by meddling in places like Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan.  Also, we are responsible for displacing all those refugees, because we have contributed to making their homeland un-inhabitable.  If we were to stop all our wars, maybe the extremists would settle down, and the refugees could go home in peace.  
John G Added Oct 8, 2017 - 3:29pm
I know it had an effect because of the effect on the many people I know -
Anecdotes schmanecdotes.
Your assumption was that it was the major cause. Anyone with an ounce of economic or democratic sense would have voted to leave. You insult those people.
Nor does it account for those who voted to remain because of the scare stories from your side.
John G - I didn't say your extreme view is popular. It isn't. 
And clearly I didn't say that either. Are you drunk?
totally intolerant and abusive to anyone who believes differently to you.
Tone policing from a condescending fool doesn't mean much.
An example of intolerant, abusive arrogant claptrap. 
Oh what irony. Delicious. You've just slagged off a whole group of voters as "ill-educated lower class". 
That's exactly the sort of elitist shit that they were voting against you fool.
You set yourself up as a spokesperson for people you know nothing about 
Utter claptrap. I speak for myself and I don't pretend to speak for anyone. Wanker.
John G - you see - more abusive stupidity - I am not a racist. I am not an Islamophobe.
You don't want to believe so but your numerous posts smearing muslims and islam are testament to it.
As I said your silence on paedophilia, female genital mutilation, slavery, intolerance, and misogyny speaks volumes.
This is a pathetic, childish and low debating tactic only. You 'care' about those people so much that you want to kill them through economic sanctions and regime change.
Your continued slander of FGM as an islamic practice is a low racist act on your part.
You know the truth yet you continue to peddle the lie.
Just more evidence of your racism.
John G Added Oct 8, 2017 - 3:33pm
You believe what you want to believe and are totally intolerant and abusive to anyone who believes differently to you.
Hows about you worry about your arguments and I'll worry about what I believe. I don't need you inventing them for me. 
Thanks.
Dave Volek Added Oct 8, 2017 - 3:47pm
Good article, Orpher
 
The 911 attacks killed about 3000 Americans in a one-off attack. Road accidents cause about 40,000 deaths a year--every year. We could cut down road deaths by 50% with a stricter enforcement of current traffic laws.
 
I'm not sure people are getting the paradox here. I cannot make any headway with the stats in the above paragraph.
 
opher goodwin Added Oct 8, 2017 - 6:45pm
Katharine - I agree with you. When 9/11 happened they had the sympathy and support of the whole world and squandered it.
opher goodwin Added Oct 8, 2017 - 6:47pm
Cheers Dave. I know.
John G Added Oct 8, 2017 - 11:15pm
John G - your party is the extreme narrow view of Western Culture. 
Oh really? There's a party for that is there?
Idiot.
 In your eyes everything is does and stands for is wrong while everything the rest of the world does is beyond reproach.
No. It is wrong when it is wrong. You just won't accept that it does much of what it does, so you reject all evidence that doesn't fit your bias.
The truth is in the middle.
No. That's where you place your 'belief'. And you get misinformed and misdirected away from the cold harsh reality.
The truth is the truth. There's no middle ground between truth and lies you fool.
you merely gather information from dubious extreme sources 
You mean sources that don't agree with the corporate state propaganda that you choose to accept without question. I've seen the BBC manufacture war propaganda repeatedly. I've seen the Grauniad tell ridiculous lies about all sorts of things.
And these are the major sources for your metropolitan cafe class elitists.
You are a rube. And you need to accept that you know two fifths of fuck all about geopolitics, the muslim world and the empire.
I've given you plenty of clues but you haven't pursued a single one.
So I know that not only are you ignorant, you are wilfully so.
opher goodwin Added Oct 9, 2017 - 3:58am
Works both ways John. You've got an extreme narrow view of the world, an inability to debate and an abusive nature.
The truth isn't your version of it.
John G Added Oct 9, 2017 - 4:09am
I don't have a narrow view of the world at all. I've been around it and lived it. You, on the other hand, read British newspapers and watch the BBC.
And it is you claiming to know the truth. 
I'm offering further information. 
You reject it out of hand.
Like your 9/11 comment.
You can't debate at all because you can't think outside the narrow confines of the establishment narratives that you so fervently believe.
And no, it doesn't work both ways.
opher goodwin Added Oct 9, 2017 - 4:17am
Aah John - at least you are not being abusive.
I too have gone around the world and lived in different cultures. I too do not trust the BBC or newspapers as purveyors of truth.
I do not claim to have a handle on 'the truth' behind the scenes like you do. But I know you don't really either and I'm not prepared to believe in the extremist views like you do.
I do not have an establishment view. I see good and bad in all cultures and, unlike you, criticise wrong whenever I see it. I don't take sides. In your world Muslims can do no wrong, they are the victims of the Western war machine. That's crap. A lot of their culture and beliefs are crap and need challenging. Anyone who criticises them is automatically an Islamophobe and that crap too.
It works both ways. You've absorbed a view and are entrenched. 
John G Added Oct 9, 2017 - 4:29am
I too have gone around the world and lived in different cultures.
Matey, you're a teacher. You've not done anything even vaguely comparable. 
I too do not trust the BBC or newspapers as purveyors of truth.
Clearly you do. Everything you cite as reality here is the establishment narrative.
I'm not prepared to believe in the extremist views like you do.
Your 'centrism' is extremist. Your political centre these days are out of control warmongers, looters and all round fascist.
They're the people you look up to and follow.
I do not have an establishment view. I see good and bad in all cultures and, unlike you, criticise wrong whenever I see it. 
But you close your eyes and ears to the world.
I don't take sides. In your world Muslims can do no wrong,
Not at all.
they are the victims of the Western war machine.
They are.
A lot of their culture and beliefs are crap and need challenging. Anyone who criticises them is automatically an Islamophobe and that crap too.
You have no right to dishonestly 'challenge' islam without being seen as a racist. It isn't automatic.
Your ranting about muslims and islam are racist because they are mischaracterisations and falsehoods.
You have the opportunity to educate yourself but you've chosen not to.
Neil Lock Added Oct 9, 2017 - 5:11am
I think you’re basically right Opher, the terrorists aren’t the real problem. It’s the politicians and media that make a meal of the issue for their own purposes that are the troublemakers.
 
I voted Leave; but racism and xenophobia had nothing to do with it. My main reason was that the whole European project was mis-sold to us back in the 1970s. We were lied to, and those of us with long memories don’t forgive such a thing. Then there’s the small matter that the EU is going to come apart at the seams before too long. Oh, and Cameron using my money to send me a booklet of Remainer propaganda.
 
opher goodwin Added Oct 9, 2017 - 8:43am
Neil - thanks for that. I too think the politicians and media exaggerate and use things for their own ends. We have been systematically lied to and manipulated. But is not to say that terrorism is anything other than abhorrent and requires dealing with.
I'm sorry to hear that you voted leave. I can understand your reasons. The EU has a lot of things that need dealing with. My view is that I do not believe it will break up and those things are best dealt with inside. We can't do anything outside it.
My biggest worry is that we will severely damage our own economy and future. The lack of cooperation will greatly impair collaborative work on the environment, crime, terrorism, science and the rest. I want an outward looking country with a more global perspective.
Good to talk.
opher goodwin Added Oct 9, 2017 - 8:52am
John G - I haven't always been a teacher thanks. I worked at numerous jobs around the world and in this country - from dishwashing and road-sweeping to lab tech and sewage work. I've worked in warehouses and factories. I don't need pigeon-holing out of ignorance, thank you.
My 'centrism' is a. far from centre and b. not extremist. I am a supporter of the left who believes in social democracy. And I do not close my ears to the world. I talk to people, listen and travel widely. I have had black, brow, Jewish, Muslim and Hindu friends thanks - and I get a wide range of views. I do not read the guardian and your attempts to try to nail me down are rather silly.
I challenged you on condemning the practices of certain sects of Islam - paedophilia, slavery, intolerance, attitudes to homosexuals, misogyny, FGM - you refused. I do not dishonestly condemn Muslims. My Muslim friends have no problem in condemning these practices - why do you?
Michael Cikraji Added Oct 9, 2017 - 9:48am
Hey Opher,
What terrorism is, is just the newest kind of Western boogeyman. We've always had at least one in the West. Since the Roman Empire, they've roughly been:
1) Germanic Tribes (like the Vandals)
2) The Vikings and Mongols
3) The Jews
4) The Muslims
5) The Jews
6) The Monarchy 
7) The Nazis
8) The Communists
9) The Terrorists
opher goodwin Added Oct 9, 2017 - 10:06am
Mike - and we've still got some of those operating now. I was always rather nonplussed at the bullying of kids with red hair. There are lots of derogatory put downs over here (I don't know it that is the same in the USA - I don't remember encountering it in the States). They date back centuries to when the Celts (red hair being a celtish trait) used to raid.
It is amazing how long these things last.
Michael Cikraji Added Oct 9, 2017 - 10:18am
Hey Opher,
America has always had such a mix of people, I think if anything red hair been seen as a little more attractive? Maybe depends on who you ask, but on a woman I think it's kinda hot.
Over a hundred years ago there were some "anti-Irish" feelings, but that had a lot to do with massive immigration at the time too. 
Maybe a stereotype has been that people with natural red hair get angrier quicker? And of course, others have exploited that idea!
Sheamus!
opher goodwin Added Oct 9, 2017 - 10:33am
Michael - I sent you a little info through about Scotland. Sorry I can't be more useful.
Bill Kamps Added Oct 9, 2017 - 1:16pm
opher you are correct that deaths by terrorists are small compared to the fear they create.
 
This  is similar to the zero tolerance we have for air plane deaths.  Some 30K people die each year in car accidents in the US alone.  Most years less than a few hundred die in commercial plane crashes each year in the US.   If we lost a plane a month, or some 1500 per year, we would ground the air lines until the problem were "fixed".
 
 
 
 
opher goodwin Added Oct 9, 2017 - 1:16pm
My wife loves red hair.
Bill Kamps Added Oct 9, 2017 - 1:18pm
Jamal, if you dont see the connection to the attack on the Cole, and the US invading Muslim countries, then I believe you are just not paying attention. 
opher goodwin Added Oct 9, 2017 - 1:55pm
Bill - a very good observation. They would wouldn't they?
Bill Kamps Added Oct 9, 2017 - 2:12pm
opher, I think we expect things like trains, buses, and planes to work without  a hitch because we are passengers of some other entity.  Car crashes  are something the owner does and yes as you mentioned, it is perceived to be more within our control.  Since most people think they are above average drivers, they dont think a crash will happen to them. 
 
Most people also dont know how many people die  a year in car crashes, and the media fails to put  this  into context for us.  When the US had the Ebola scare a couple of years age, exactly one person died from Ebola in the US.  We were washing down air planes with bleach, even though its not possible to get Ebola from contact with surfaces.  In the  US, 100 people a day die from influenza.  If 100 people a day died from Ebola, the  country would have been shut  down. 
 
A few years ago there was a new strain of flu thought to be more deadly than others.  Of course it was not easy to tell right away whether a child had the more deadly kind, or the average kind.  So principals decided that if  any child had the flu, they would shut the school down for a week to be safe.  They soon realized that the schools would never be open, because some kid always had the flu.
 
Terrorism is very much like our  reaction to other threats.  We dont have a good way of putting the threat into context, and  making our response proportional. 
 
opher goodwin Added Oct 9, 2017 - 2:22pm
Bill - that is spot on. The media and politicians control what threats are taken more seriously and which are ignored. There is no logic to it. Perhaps when we move to driverless cars we will see a big change in attitude to road deaths.
Bill Kamps Added Oct 9, 2017 - 2:31pm
There was a death from a Tesla not long ago, where the driver had put the car into automatic mode.  You would have thought 100 people had died from the reaction.  I dont recall the details, but I do recall that the driver had done something that wasn't recommended to cause the  accident.
 
We will have zero tolerance for deaths in driverless cars. 
 
It isnt only the media and politicians, some of it is human nature and our inability to properly deal with threats.  Interesting reading is the book "Thinking Fast and Slow" which looks at our reactions in some detail.
opher goodwin Added Oct 9, 2017 - 2:46pm
Bill - I think that guy went into the side of a white truck that the onboard system didn't recognise. They've tweaked it so that won't happen again.
It is going to be a journey to get people to relinquish control of cars - yet we do it with planes - they regularly land automatically.
It'll happen. We're being softened up with automatic lights, wipers and parking.
I haven't heard of that book. I'll give it a look.
John G Added Oct 9, 2017 - 4:46pm
I challenged you on condemning the practices of certain sects of Islam - paedophilia, slavery, intolerance, attitudes to homosexuals, misogyny, FGM - you refused. I do not dishonestly condemn Muslims. My Muslim friends have no problem in condemning these practices - why do you?
How childish can you get?
John G Added Oct 9, 2017 - 4:47pm
And dishonest. And racist.
opher goodwin Added Oct 9, 2017 - 5:46pm
John G - you see. To claim that I'm being childish by asking you to condemn paedophilia, slavery and FGM is frankly unbelievable. You seem to accept some cultures whatever their infringements of human rights.
That is not dishonest or racist in the least.
Your gullibility in falling for infringements of basic human rights on some silly principle of alignment is childish - either that or culpable. You either oppose these things or you support them.
John G Added Oct 9, 2017 - 6:21pm
To claim that I'm being childish by asking you to condemn paedophilia, slavery and FGM is frankly unbelievable.
No, what you are demanding I do is to condemn islam and muslims for practicing these things and thus agreeing with you that they do so.
You want me to join your culture war based on lies and disinformation.
Your gullibility in falling for infringements of basic human rights
One of us is a gullible, fence sitting liberal with no principles aligning himself with the 'humanitarian interventionists' of the fake left.
opher goodwin Added Oct 9, 2017 - 7:08pm
I am saying that you should condemn these things out of hand no matter who practices them.
It is no lie to say that certain sects of Islam hold these things to be part of their culture or do you not agree? Why deny it?
No you are the gullible one. I sit on no fences. I'm out and out against all forms of inhumanity no matter who does it. I'm against Western war on Muslim countries and I'm against Wahhabi doctrine, misogyny, slavery and paedophilia. I make no discrimination. If it's wrong it's wrong.
You sit on the fence and refuse to acknowledge that some Muslims do bad things and have bad philosophies.
I condemn all cultures who practice genocide, wage war, enslave and are intolerant. I criticise my own country, past and present, the USA, all religions, and you. You who sit on fences and refuse to condemn any bad practice because it offends your dogmatic ideology to do so. But not condemning you are tacitly supporting it. You are a moral disgrace pretending to be superior. You are ruled by a narrow doctrine that stops you thinking.
John G Added Oct 9, 2017 - 7:24pm
No I do not agree. You are propagating war propaganda.
Then start condemning your own culture that props up the Wahabbism for their own benefit. Hypocrite.
John G Added Oct 9, 2017 - 7:27pm
Define my 'narrow doctrine'. You couldn't begin to conceive my world view. You simply don't have the experience or the knowledge.
John G Added Oct 9, 2017 - 7:29pm
You dliberately link FGM with Islam despite knowing it is a falsehood. Why?
opher goodwin Added Oct 9, 2017 - 7:32pm
I do condemn them absolutely. The Saudis are warmongering Wahhabis who have been fostering terrorism and violating human rights. I condemn them completely and it is disgusting that my government has anything to do with them.
Now you, hypocrite, do you condemn the violations carried out by certain sects of Islam? Or do you continue to be silent and tacitly support them?
Are you still sitting on the fence?
opher goodwin Added Oct 9, 2017 - 7:34pm
John - your world view comes through clearly with everything you say and everything you don't. I'm no fool. I read you like a book. You subscribe to a very narrow and extreme view of the world. While I go along with some of that I do not swallow it hook line and sinker like you do. It does not stop me speaking up against violations of human rights because that might transgress my dogma.
John G Added Oct 9, 2017 - 8:33pm
What 'sects of islam' do you think practice these things?
 I condemn them completely and it is disgusting that my government has anything to do with them.
Do you and are you? I haven't seen that at all.
And strangely you are carrying your government's water by calling for sanctions and warfare in muslim lands.
And you refuse to entertain that western governments are behind ISIS, AQ and the other takfiris.
John G Added Oct 9, 2017 - 8:36pm
 your world view comes through clearly with everything you say and everything you don't. I'm no fool. I read you like a book. You subscribe to a very narrow and extreme view of the world. 
Yet strangely you can't identify it or elaborate.
You haven't a clue, old man.
You know nothing about the world that the elites play in.
You're inside the matrix and you won't take the pill.
You refuse (and I quote) to believe that your governments commit false flags or create takfiri terrorist armies.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Oct 10, 2017 - 2:37am
Gawd dang right! Its not that bad really. I say we stop foolin' around and get down to some serious terrorism instead of all this pussyfooting around. If you're gonna do something then do it right. Have some damn pride! 
John G Added Oct 10, 2017 - 3:31am
“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are moulded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organised. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.”
~ Edward Bernays, Propaganda, 1928.
Ironically, Opher is a credulous victim.
opher goodwin Added Oct 10, 2017 - 5:01am
John G - no I don't think the West is running ISIS. I think they were instrumental in setting them up though.
If you don't think I condemn evil wherever it is you should read what I write.
I think ISIS, practicing extreme Wahhabi doctrine, practices slavery and paedophilia, persecution of homosexuals, misogyny and death penalty for apostates. I think FGM is practiced in many Islamic countries. I think misogyny is quite widespread.
I am amazed that you did not know this and refuse to condemn it.
opher goodwin Added Oct 10, 2017 - 5:01am
John G - well you've obviously fallen for it. I'm doubtful.
opher goodwin Added Oct 10, 2017 - 5:03am
John G - good Edward Bernays quote. That is pretty much what I believe too.
John G Added Oct 10, 2017 - 5:16am
I am amazed that you did not know this and refuse to condemn it.
You don't know anything.
I note that you've completely failed, yet again, to answer the specific questions I asked.
You've gone from 'sects of islam' to 'practiced in may islamic countries'.
FGM is NOT an islamic practice at all and you know it.
 
John G - no I don't think the West is running ISIS. I think they were instrumental in setting them up though.
You must get a lot of splinters in your arse with all that fence sitting.
This is another one of your compromise 'truths'.
Your understanding of the world is superficial at best.
At heart though, you are wilfully ignorant.
opher goodwin Added Oct 10, 2017 - 5:26am
Pedantic silliness - evading the whole issue.
I know FGM is not an Islamic practice. It is cultural. The same goes for the Burqa and many other aspects of Islamic practice. All religions incorporate previous religious and cultural practice to bolster them up. But FGM has been adopted by Islamic practice in a number of countries. Try following please. I've said it a number of times now.
Are you ever going to admit it's wrong?
opher goodwin Added Oct 10, 2017 - 5:27am
John G - not believing that the West is running ISIS, Boko Haram and the rest is not sitting on a fence; it is not believing.
John G Added Oct 10, 2017 - 5:30am
But FGM has been adopted by Islamic practice in a number of countries. 
You really are a fucking moron.
John G Added Oct 10, 2017 - 5:32am
John G - not believing that the West is running ISIS, Boko Haram and the rest is not sitting on a fence; it is not believing.
And you probably give money to the White Helmets and believed the Koney 2012 thing.
You're a rube.
John G Added Oct 10, 2017 - 5:32am
Is FGM a Christian thing, Goodwin?
John G Added Oct 10, 2017 - 5:33am
A Christian practice that should be.
opher goodwin Added Oct 10, 2017 - 7:01am
John G - If FGM was practiced by Christians it would be wouldn't it?
You're good at calling people names but are still a paedophile supporter who refuses to condemn FGM, misogyny or slavery.
What are you hiding behind?
The moron is looking back at you from the mirror.
All you do is troll and abuse. Try writing a post of your own - or aren't you capable?
Jeffry Gilbert Added Oct 10, 2017 - 8:20am
At least he doesn't mentally masturbate all over WB with utter nonsense disguised as articles dear hall monitor.
opher goodwin Added Oct 10, 2017 - 9:54am
No - like you he trolls on everyone else's stuff. Those incapable of building just destroy. Isn't that it Captain Birdseye?
If you don't like what I write just fuck off eh?
Jeffry Gilbert Added Oct 10, 2017 - 10:56am
If you don't like what I write just fuck off eh
 
You've got me all wrong dear hall monitor. 
 
I don't like YOU. 
 
YOU are a contemptible prat of the first order and it's a LOT of fun to trigger beta cucks like you. 
 
You present as so superior yet you're unable to see I'm playing you like a fiddle. 
 
So off you go now, mind the gap between train and platform. Bye. Have a great day!
opher goodwin Added Oct 10, 2017 - 12:02pm
Jeffry - you talk like an overgrown baboon and think your childish silliness is winding me up? Laughing at you. I find it incredibly hard to think that someone like you held down a job - let alone a captain - where was it? In a boat pond? You can't even talk proper English - beta cucks -Gawd dang. Impressive stuff. I leave your stuff up on my threads to demonstrate what an arrogant twerp you are.
BTW - unlike you I do not claim to be superior to anyone. But I must admit I prefer intelligent debate to your childishness. You are nothing but a worthless troll. You stupidity is amusing but limited. It does get tedious.
John G Added Oct 10, 2017 - 3:32pm
John G - If FGM was practiced by Christians it would be wouldn't it?
So why aren't you calling out Christians?
John G Added Oct 10, 2017 - 3:35pm
All you do is troll and abuse. 
I'm calling out your bullshit. And your 'defence' as always is to moan and whine like the right wingers that you pretend to oppose, but really appease.
Look at yourself carrying water for the warmongers.
opher goodwin Added Oct 10, 2017 - 6:01pm
I'll call out anybody who practices FGM. It is a barbaric practice that needs stamping out. It's sad you don't see that.
opher goodwin Added Oct 10, 2017 - 6:03pm
I'm not whining and moaning - I'm calling you an abusive troll. You rarely offer anything constructive, put nothing out yourself and come out with personal abuse instead of constructive dialogue. You're a totally negative force with a narrow viewpoint.
John G Added Oct 10, 2017 - 6:39pm
And yet you've completely failed when asked to define my viewpoint/s.
The fact is that your views are laughably mainstream media views and your understanding of the issues is superficial at best.
 
 
John G Added Oct 10, 2017 - 6:40pm
I'll call out anybody who practices FGM. 
So why aren't you calling out Christians for it?
John G Added Oct 10, 2017 - 6:43pm
 You rarely offer anything constructive, put nothing out yourself and come out with personal abuse instead of constructive dialogue. 
You're a monumental hypocrite and a whiner. You are incapable of constructive dialogue because you appear unable or unwilling to follow a rational sequence.
As above when you duck the christian FGM issue.
It's sad you don't see that.
Of course I see it you childish buffoon.
It won't make me carry water for western warmongers though. Unlike you.
opher goodwin Added Oct 10, 2017 - 6:49pm
John G - you are like a record stuck in the groove. Your viewpoints are:
a. you oppose anything the West does
b. You defend Muslims and condone everything they do no matter how barbaric.
c. You think that the West orchestrates all manner of covert operations (like orchestrating ISIS and Al Qaeda) to justify its bombing the hell out of places
d. You think that the Deep State runs it all
e. You are a hardline extreme leftist/fascist
f. You like to criticise and give personal abuse but never offer any constructive views
g. You like to destroy but not build
h. You have a policy of not doing any posts but like to snipe at others
I. You are a seasoned troll.
There you go. Now your turn to answer my challenge to criticise the barbaric practices of certain Muslim sects - you know - your condoning of paedophilia, slavery, summary execution, intolerance of homosexuality and misogyny. Can't can you?
John G Added Oct 10, 2017 - 7:06pm
John G - you are like a record stuck in the groove.
Says the serial whiner.
Your viewpoints are:
a. you oppose anything the West does
Nope. Childish.
b. You defend Muslims and condone everything they do no matter how barbaric.
Nope. Very childish.
c. You think that the West orchestrates all manner of covert operations (like orchestrating ISIS and Al Qaeda) to justify its bombing the hell out of places
Yes. That's because it's a fact and you just 'can't' believe it. You reject evidence out of hand that doesn't conform to your establishment bias.
d. You think that the Deep State runs it all
No. But it has much more influence and effect than you believe your fake democracy does.
And that's just a fact. We live in fascist oligarchies.
You don't seem to even understand what democracy is.
e. You are a hardline extreme leftist/fascist
What the fuck? A leftist/fascist?
You really are a loser.
f. You like to criticise and give personal abuse but never offer any constructive views
g. You like to destroy but not build
Idiot. I've done plenty of building. You're just desperate to hang on to the status quo,.
h. You have a policy of not doing any posts but like to snipe at others
I have posted articles, idiot.
I. You are a seasoned troll.
Pathetic. You just don't like to have your views challenged. You're no lefty or thinker.
You're just a cafe class whiney liberal.
You can't even follow a rational argument.
Your views are naive, superficial, infantile and irrational.
John G Added Oct 10, 2017 - 7:08pm
f. You like to criticise and give personal abuse but never offer any constructive views
You just don't understand the actual problem and think that deeper understanding and greater knowledge isn't constructive.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Oct 10, 2017 - 7:13pm
You're just a cafe class whiney liberal.
 
You give him too much credit. 
 
John G Added Oct 10, 2017 - 7:20pm
He's like the right wingers who'll never answer a direct question and then demand this and demand that.
Notice how he's skated over the Christian FGM issue?
Just ignores the point and continues on his own narrow minded version of reality.
John G Added Oct 10, 2017 - 7:36pm
the barbaric practices of certain Muslim sects 
You are yet to define or name these sects. You just keep skating the issues.
John G Added Oct 10, 2017 - 9:41pm
Goodwin. John G - good Edward Bernays quote. That is pretty much what I believe too.
LOLz. YOU are being manipulated you old fool. You credulously and dutifully believe every bit of establishment war propaganda they throw out.
opher goodwin Added Oct 11, 2017 - 4:54am
John G - here you go again - I'll call out anybody who practices FGM. INCLUDING ANY CHRISTIAN GROUPS, BUDDHISTS, HINDUS, JAINS, ATHEISTS or ZORASTRIANS.  It is a barbaric practice that needs stamping out. It's sad you don't see that. 
There I said it again.
Now your turn. For once in your life do something decent and deplore paedophilia, intolerance, misogyny, slavery and indiscriminate killings of homosexuals carried out by the like of Daesh
opher goodwin Added Oct 11, 2017 - 5:07am
John G - no I don't mind having my views challenged. That is not the issue. The issue is having dorks coming out with a stream of personal abuse and offering no debate whatsoever. That is being an abusive troll. That is unintelligent stupidity - the province of yourself and your fellow travellers. Strange bedfellows.
YOU are being manipulated you old fool. You credulously and dutifully believe every bit of establishment war propaganda they throw out.
narrow minded version of reality.
You just don't understand the actual problem and think that deeper understanding and greater knowledge isn't constructive.
You're just a cafe class whiney liberal.
You can't even follow a rational argument.
Your views are naive, superficial, infantile and irrational.
Pathetic. You just don't like to have your views challenged. You're no lefty or thinker.
You really are a loser.
You don't seem to even understand what democracy is.
Very childish.
Says the serial whiner.
Nope. Very childish.
Of course I see it you childish buffoon.
It won't make me carry water for western warmongers though. Unlike you.
And you probably give money to the White Helmets and believed the Koney 2012 thing.
Matey, you're a teacher. You've not done anything even vaguely comparable. 
You're a rube.
You haven't a clue, old man.
 
Just one long string of personal abuse, arrogant shit and nastiness from a twisted mind with too big an opinion of itself. You, and a bunch of other twisted fucks on this site, sing from a nasty bullying hymn sheet. You keep strange company with the right wing trolls.
Well good luck to you. I'll continue to talk to the people who are more intelligently involved thanks.
John G Added Oct 11, 2017 - 3:28pm
There I said it again.
But you haven't said it at all.
You're either being obtuse or you are genuinely stupid.
John G Added Oct 11, 2017 - 3:32pm
 For once in your life do something decent
You have no clue. What the F good would my 'condemnation' do?
and deplore paedophilia, intolerance, misogyny, slavery and indiscriminate killings of homosexuals carried out by the like of Daesh
The underlined bit is why I won't submit to your demand.
But I'm sick of you ignoring the explanation and the rationale.
And I'm sick of you whining about having your views challenged.
John G Added Oct 11, 2017 - 5:21pm
Just one long string of personal abuse, 
If all that is 'personal abuse', what are your similar comments to me?
You just want an echo chamber where no one disagrees with you.
opher goodwin Added Oct 11, 2017 - 7:43pm
John G - rubbish - if you abuse me then I will answer back in kind.
The explanation and rationale????? I've haven't had a whiff of that. That's what I keep asking for. The only thing you come out with is that this pernicious sect is American. Bollocks.
opher goodwin Added Oct 11, 2017 - 7:45pm
John G - here you go again - I'll call out anybody who practices FGM. INCLUDING ANY CHRISTIAN GROUPS, BUDDHISTS, HINDUS, JAINS, ATHEISTS or ZORASTRIANS.  It is a barbaric practice that needs stamping out. It's sad you don't see that. 
There I said it again.
Now your turn. For once in your life do something decent and deplore paedophilia, intolerance, misogyny, slavery and indiscriminate killings of homosexuals carried out by the like of Daesh 
I can't be clearer than that. You asked me to condemn Christians for FGM. I condemn every bastard who does it - the majority being Muslims.
John G Added Oct 11, 2017 - 7:58pm
 I condemn every bastard who does it - the majority being Muslims.
You can't help yourself.
If you want to run around screaming about FGM, fine. But leave the muslim bashing out because it has nought to do with islam.
All you are doing is warmongering.
John G Added Oct 11, 2017 - 8:00pm
The explanation and rationale????? I've haven't had a whiff of that. That's what I keep asking for. 
No, your problem is that you are waaaaay too arrogant to accept that I may know a lot more about the issues under discussion than you do.
'ISIS' is a US creation. I've pointed you to solid evidence of that and you've rejected it out of hand like the arrogant yet credulous ass that you are.
John G Added Oct 11, 2017 - 8:02pm
What do you think of the White Helmets, Opher?
opher goodwin Added Oct 12, 2017 - 9:06am
I don't know John. I don't know much about them. As far as I know they are funded from the West and carry out humanitarian aide for bomb victims in Syria. You are going to tell me that they have some sinister purpose aren't you?
opher goodwin Added Oct 12, 2017 - 9:10am
So who do you think is carrying out FGM John? Here's a report:
The practice, prevalent in some majority Muslim countries, has a tremendous cost: many girls bleed to death or die of infection. Most are traumatized. Those who survive can suffer adverse health effects during marriage and pregnancy. New information from Iraqi Kurdistan raises the possibility that the problem is more prevalent in the Middle East than previously believed and that FGM is far more tied to religion than many Western academics and activists admit.
Many Muslims and academics in the West take pains to insist that the practice is not rooted in religionname="_ftnref1">[1] but rather in culture. "When one considers that the practice does not prevail and is much condemned in countries like Saudi Arabia, the center of the Islamic world, it becomes clear that the notion that it is an Islamic practice is a false one," Haseena Lockhat, a child clinical psychologist at North Warwickshire Primary Care Trust, wrote.name="_ftnref2">[2] True, FGM occurs in non-Muslim societies in Africa. And in Arab states such as Egypt, where perhaps 97 percent of girls suffer genital mutilation,name="_ftnref3">[3] both Christian Copts and Muslims are complicit.
But at the village level, those who commit the practice believe it to be religiously mandated. Religion is not only theology but also practice. And the practice is widespread throughout the Middle East. Many diplomats, international organization workers, and Arabists argue that the problem is localized to North Africa or sub-Saharan Africa,name="_ftnref4">[4] but they are wrong. The problem is pervasive throughout the Levant, the Fertile Crescent, and the Arabian Peninsula, and among many immigrants to the West from these countries. Silence on the issue is less reflective of the absence of the problem than insufficient freedom for feminists and independent civil society to raise the issue.
John G Added Oct 12, 2017 - 3:35pm
You are quoting an American war propaganda outlet.
You lose, buddy.
And you still refuse to name it as a christian practice in the same terms as you smeared islam with it.
 
John G Added Oct 12, 2017 - 3:38pm
You are going to tell me that they have some sinister purpose aren't you?
See that about yourself?
You are automatically firmly following the establishment line and are going to defend it  even without knowing what evidence there is to the contrary.
You're an authoritarian on your knees.
opher goodwin Added Oct 12, 2017 - 7:04pm
John G - everything is government propaganda to you.
FGM is occurring mainly in Muslim countries. It has become part of the religious practice in those countries. There are some Christian communities that have adopted the same disgusting practice. Whether Christian or Muslim I condemn it out of hand.
John G Added Oct 12, 2017 - 7:29pm
FGM is occurring mainly in Muslim countries.
We've had this discussion before so you are aware that this is not the case.
You are deliberately spreading islamophobic propaganda.
You are simply unable to jettison your innate British Orientalist racism. And your British imperialist sense of moral superiority.
 
John G Added Oct 12, 2017 - 11:09pm
John G - everything is government propaganda to you.
Do you have any idea of how childish that is?
You're pathetic.
John G Added Oct 13, 2017 - 3:34am
What did we learn from this vicious war against Syria, during which the Syrian Army, its allies, and friends held fast, giving hundreds of thousands of martyrs, wounded, displaced, and untold destruction? What did the Arab World learn from similar western-terrorist wars against Iraq, Libya, Yemen, and Sudan?
What did the Arabs learn from the suffering of the Palestinian people, whose experience in the struggle against racist colonial zionists is comparable only to the struggle of the people os South Africa against apartheid? Did the ongoing battles prevent everyone from learning lessons, and therefore events might replicate themselves year after year?
These questions and many others need to be asked today, now that all our expectations about the nature of the war on Syria turned out to be true, especially about those who funded and facilitated terrorism and propagated it in the media under the guise of democracy and human rights, while the main goal was to destroy the structures of the state in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and Libya. If these questions were not posed, we will remain stuck in a vicious cycle, constructed by those who change their plans, but do not change their objectives of looting our wealth, carving up our geography, and destroying our civilisational identity, with the hope of eliminating the Palestinian cause and the role of the Arabs in the region and the world once and for all.
Did we have to wait until today to learn that tens of thousands of foreign terrorists crossed the Turkish, Jordanian, and Lebanese borders into Syria, funded and armed by Saudi Arabia and Israel? Did we have to wait the nearing of their defeat in order to prepare accurate studies about their nationalities and the parties that funded them and sponsored them to reach their destination? Did we have to wait and see how ISIS hands over its positions in Raqqa and Deir al-Zor to US forces and the SDF mercenary, or did we need to examine carefully how ISIS handed its territory to the Peshmerga years ago without a fight? Should these events, after they were proven as facts, remain up for media debate, or should they become legal cases to be raised in internal and subsequently international tribunals against the parties involved in this overreaching criminal act? The question is how could this have been done in the past, and how could it actually be done in the future?
I pose these questions today because I see a change in the scenarios that target us, with a new wave coming, which in itself will not be the last one. Especially that the hypocrisy that blinded everyone at the beginning of the war against Iraq, Syria, Yemen, and Libya is being practiced again in regard to the Kurdistan referendum, as the countries that stand behind the plans to dismember the Arab Nation pretend to be against the referendum, while actually they support it as a substitute to the earlier terrorist schemes that did not succeed in establishing takfiri states in Syria, Libya, Iraq, and Yemen.
The most important lessons that we need to learn from this difficult experience is that war against us takes many facets, and it is wise that we do not ignore any of these facets even during the fiercest military battles. While the Syrian Army and its allies are on the frontline fighting, civilian teams must be set up across the country to support the military effort.
We need to have research, media, and legal teams that are ready to devote themselves to support the military forces and face the other facets of the battle on the internal, regional, and international levels. In this regard, research and documentation teams have to be formed since day one, which would get its material from the filed, so that future generation could learn the true history of their country and learn the important lessons.
A media research cell should be formed to study all the media directed against the people who are the victims of this terrorist war, in order to study, refute and treat it from media and psychological perspectives, and suggest appropriate responses to protect the soldiers of the Army and their families from the lies of terrorist media machines such as Al Jazeera, al-Arabyia and many others.
In addition to these two tracks, it is necessary to establish a human rights cells that examine all these files and evaluate cases against individuals, parties and states involved in supporting criminal terrorism, it should also deal with all UN resolutions issued, and keep the issue alive in the media and the judiciary. These same cells should keep following the actions of countries that violate United Nations resolutions by sponsoring, financing and arming terroirsts, and keep these issues hot in the minds of nations and peoples. That is to say, the main lesson learned from this despicable war against our countries is that we have to organise society since the first day with all its specialities. We must never forget that the educationa
John G Added Oct 13, 2017 - 3:35am
That is to say, the main lesson learned from this despicable war against our countries is that we have to organise society since the first day with all its specialities. We must never forget that the educational process should remain in place and that measures should be taken to ensure the continuity and efficiency of the State's work at all stages. The continued efficiency of the work of the state and the readiness of the people, mobilising them and organising their ranks in all fields constitute the basic guarantee for achieving victory. On this day when terrorists and their masters change their faces, clothes, skins, tools and plans to achieve what they have been unable to accomplish in seven years, it is worth noting that we are on the verge of entering into a new battle of a new kind, aimed at ethnic and sectarian fragmentation, to sow division in service to the Zionist project and its expansion, and the creation of entities similar to it. If we complete this missing link in our battle, we may fight our next battles with greater efficiency and less sacrifices.
#Bouthaina_Shaaban
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Oct 13, 2017 - 10:42am
Terrorism is not as bad as we are led to believe.
 
Yep. The ones who believe that are badly mistaken. No further comment. We all have brains....
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Oct 13, 2017 - 10:43am
......"terrorism" killed maybe 5'000 people in the last 30 years. How many in wars AGAINST "terrorism" ?
 
Fuck that "argument".
Zachery d Taylor Added Oct 13, 2017 - 11:37am
Your statistics about other deaths being much more than terrorism, is, as far as I know, right, and even if the numbers are wrong  the idea is still right, so your right about priorities. 
 
However, I don't believe the terrorists are winning at all, unless you consider the terrorists to be our own government, which to some degree it is. They use the threat of terrorism to scare people and maintain control and use as an excuse for secrecy deception and wars based on lies. 
 
Jack Kennedy once said something like those that don't allow peaceful protest to address legitimate concerns will guarantee violent revolution, which to some degree is what is happening although it is failing. 
 
They're striking back at us because we keep bombing them and supporting tyrants in their countries. This is a form of state sponsored terrorism.
 
The solution, or partial solution to terrorism is surprisingly simple address legitimate social concerns, stop fighting wars based on lies and provide people with accurate news and education so the rest can be accomplished, instead of deceiving everyone to preserve the oligarchy system. 
opher goodwin Added Oct 13, 2017 - 12:07pm
ZDT - The solution, or partial solution to terrorism is surprisingly simple address legitimate social concerns, stop fighting wars based on lies and provide people with accurate news and education so the rest can be accomplished, instead of deceiving everyone to preserve the oligarchy system.  
That sums it up for me.
Thanks for commenting.
Dave Volek Added Oct 13, 2017 - 12:46pm
ZDT
 
Well said, indeed.
 
I would add that we still need to watch those who are most likely to commit acts of terror and step in when they are close to committing their acts. At this point, there should be enough evidence to put them in jail.
 
And we should recognize that even with the best of surveillance, we will not be able to stop all acts of terrorism.
 
When an act of terrorism is committed, the perpetrator must be found, tried, and convicted under the current laws. When we short circuit this process, we just create more terrorists. 
 
 
 
opher goodwin Added Oct 13, 2017 - 1:10pm
Dave - well said. We've always had to live with a level of terrorism - from anarchists, suffragettes, Irish nationalists, Baader Meinhof, weathermen, Basque separatists or religious nutcases. Some people seem to think that violence is the only way. It's a sad state of affairs.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Oct 13, 2017 - 1:35pm
I'd say that 'terrorism' had nought to do with the Brexit vote or Trump's election though it's a nice meme if you're a liberal looking to absolve yourself and your liberal class of blame.
The fact is that people no longer believe the neoliberal bullshit that the liberal class has wedded itself to.
...
And Brexit is a good thing for the UK. Ridding yourselves of the corporatist kleptocracy that is the EU can only be a positive.
 
Great! Now John G makes more sense than opher goodwin! Tho follies of life.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Oct 13, 2017 - 4:12pm
Ben
 
John sure is right on that. Very many people here in Europe share that opinion. Only: The "special relationship US-UK" will not be affected.....how much is show ? Is Corbyn another Bernie in the end ? Who knows......
opher goodwin Added Oct 13, 2017 - 4:47pm
Ben - from my perspective neither Brexit or Trump have anything to do with terrorism apart from the disproportionate xenophobic/racist fear that it generated in the population. It caused a fear of migration and a panic to shut borders and clamp down.
That rise of nationalism, racism and fascism is deplorable. Both Brexit and Trump are poor choices that we will all come to regret. Looking inward, being isolationist and building walls is negative and retrograde. I want to be part of the big world, not insular in a country that is divided, full of hate and suspicion and has shrunk in on itself. I want to be out there. We are all the poorer.
Right now the terrorists are winning. We're doing just what they wanted us to do.
SEF - I hope Corbyn is our Bernie. We need him. I think he is.
John G Added Oct 13, 2017 - 5:04pm
 Both Brexit and Trump are poor choices that we will all come to regret.
It's beyond my ken why anyone who is awake would want to remain in the EU. What is it that blinds you to it?
SEF - I hope Corbyn is our Bernie. We need him. I think he is.
I think you've totally missed SEF's point.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Oct 13, 2017 - 5:33pm
Opher
 
John is right again, I'm afraid. Why ?
 
a) The EU was and is a prolonged arm of the US to keep power in Europe. Easier by a centralized Brussels than 28 decentralized countries,
 
b) Corbyn in my view is just another way to PRETEND that there is a democracy and all opinions are allowed. How do you pretend democracy ? By allowing n candidates into a campaign, from far-left to far-right, but by KNOWING that the ones who will bet through are the ones who follow economic agendas.....if not now, then AFTER.
 
Now why do I say that ? Bernie is 75. He had ALL reasons to say: Let's do it right to the end, I've got nothing to lose. He didn't. Why ? Because he was set up as a counterweight to PRETEND there's democracy.
opher goodwin Added Oct 13, 2017 - 6:34pm
SEF - I don't go for these conspiracy theories. I don't think that the USA controls Europe. I don't think America is in favour of the EU. It sees it as too powerful. And I think Corbyn is authentic. He has a long history behind him and is no establishment figurehead.
Democracy is a fraud in that the media and establishment load the dice but I still believe that it is possible to buck that and I have faith that Corbyn just might do it.
I haven't given up totally on democracy.
Bernie was undermined by those same people who load the dice. He had no choice. The establishment wanted Hilary.
Is democracy a complete pretence? Nearly, but not quite.
The EU has to be the correct choice for a large number of reasons including the psychological reason of being outward looking and unifying laws to protect the environment and collaboration over many issues - science, terrorism, the environment, crime...... Anything that brings people together can't be bad.
I do not accept this jaundiced view that because it has flaws it should be dumped. In my view it is a stepping stone towards more international cooperation and unity. This isolationalist, nationalistic retraction stinks. We should be out there working to put it right.
John G Added Oct 13, 2017 - 7:01pm
Is democracy a complete pretence? Nearly, but not quite.
You really don't understand the concept of democracy do you?
It doesn't mean the electoral system we have. 
The EU has to be the correct choice for a large number of reasons 
What about all the reasons against? Had a look at what the EU has done to Greece lately?
Want to keep neoliberalism and austerity economics?
You never address the issues. You just reply with meaningless 3rd way platitudes and bark at anyone with an actual opinion as being 'extremist'. 
Well your EU masters are extremists. Extreme neoliberals.
 
opher goodwin Added Oct 13, 2017 - 7:16pm
John G - I am not saying that the EU is great or that there aren't major problems with democracy, the way Greece was treated or the people involved in running it. My contention is that it has a lot of positive features and in the balance they are more important to me.
This use of neoliberal as a form of abuse is pointless. I do not subscribe nor fit within the remit of any classification. I have no affiliations. I want a fair world and a global body. I want the economic global structures regulated and controlled. I want a democratic system that works on a democratic socialist format. I want the social elite who control things exposed and ousted. And I do not attach myself to any ideology nor can be pigeon-holed by you. I have read your thoughts and views. I find them interesting and with some validity but I do not believe things are as controlled or evil as you do. I am not that cynical. I remain an idealist.
John G Added Oct 13, 2017 - 7:28pm
This use of neoliberal as a form of abuse is pointless.
Excuse me?
John G Added Oct 13, 2017 - 7:29pm
My contention is that it has a lot of positive features
Such as?
John G Added Oct 13, 2017 - 7:34pm
 I want a fair world and a global body. I want the economic global structures regulated and controlled. I want a democratic system that works on a democratic socialist format. I want the social elite who control things exposed and ousted.
You can want things all you like. But until you actually subscribe to a means of getting those things, it's actually worse than pointless because you are wasting other people's time and energy.
The rules of the EU (that are not going to change as long as the Germans are in it) specifically forbid anything approaching socialism.
 I am not that cynical. I remain an idealist.
I believe you are cynical. And you are no idealist at all. Your beliefs change with the establishment narrative of the day. You're deep in the matrix, old boy.
They want to bomb.... say ..... Syria, they manufacture a story about big bad Assad. You believe it and hey presto.
opher goodwin Added Oct 13, 2017 - 7:50pm
John Go - I have already stated the benefits - I'm not going through them again. Read back.
The means of getting them is to support structures that lead to them. The EU for me is a stepping stone towards a global regulatory body. I'd like to do away with nations altogether. I don't want boundaries, walls and the bureaucracy that goes with them.
My views only change if I find something worth changing to. Over the years I have changed views on a number of issues - including spirituality and religion. But fundamentally I am consistent.
Absolute crap. I have consistently opposed all the wars in the Middle East. The only exception to that is ISIS. I think they are an evil bunch of extremists whose barbarity is such that they should be exterminated.
John G Added Oct 13, 2017 - 10:23pm
They created ISIS just for that purpose. 
You're so arrogant that you think they can't fool you with a few scary videos that you probably never watched anyway?
Sucker.
Look at what Syrians and the Russians are saying about the US and ISIS.
opher goodwin Added Oct 14, 2017 - 4:15am
John G - you have a very high opinion of their abilities coupled with a huge cynicism of their aims.
I don't share it to that extent.
John G Added Oct 14, 2017 - 4:24am
Of course you won't look at what the Russians and the Syrians are saying. It might threaten your security blanket.
You're in the matrix Goodwin. Willingly.
 
I know what they're capable of. I've been inside it. You haven't.
And you're not a good person at all.
Your ilk are largely responsible for where we are at today.
You've enabled, if not outright caused, the slide into fascism.
Your whole hippy act is just a pretence.
The pretend left sickens me as much as the fascists they're pretending to fight. Funny how you keep losing.
John G Added Oct 14, 2017 - 4:27am
John Go - I have already stated the benefits 
You've made bland motherhood statements that have no bearing on the institutional realities of the EU or address implementing what you think the EU should do and be.
So once again, you come up short. You may as well be writing copy for a PR firm. Not discussing politics.
John G Added Oct 14, 2017 - 4:31am
This use of neoliberal as a form of abuse is pointless.
Excuse me?
opher goodwin Added Oct 14, 2017 - 5:39am
John G - what hippy act? I say what I think, that's all. I have a view and I know what I want.
John G Added Oct 14, 2017 - 6:09am
This use of neoliberal as a form of abuse is pointless.
Excuse me?
John G Added Oct 14, 2017 - 6:12am
I have a view and I know what I want.
You haven't a clue of how to get it.
And you're too closed minded to learn.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Oct 14, 2017 - 6:23am
Opher
 
I don't think that the USA controls Europe.
 
They do, believe me. How else would it have been possible that the EU "accepts" sanctions against the Russians that damage their OWN economy ?
 
I don't think America is in favour of the EU.
 
That confirms my comment above.....
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Oct 14, 2017 - 6:24am
BTW: Nuland said "Fuck the EU". When we had guts we'd say "Fuck the US".
 
Right or wrong ?
opher goodwin Added Oct 14, 2017 - 10:24am
SEF - controls is a very strong word and I do not believe it goes that far.
opher goodwin Added Oct 14, 2017 - 10:27am
SEF - well I'd certainly say fuck the US at the moment with its belligerent policy and shot from the hip attitude. We look to be heading for a major conflict or two. Very popular with the John Wayne types and always ends in tears. As I have repeated many times - the Americans have adopted that tough-guy approach time after time and had their arses kicked every time from Korea through Vietnam to Iraq. They've been kicked out every time. Belligerence simply doesn't work (except for the wealthy who make a killing out of it every time).
John G Added Oct 14, 2017 - 3:44pm
Can'y you ever back up your arguments, Goodwin?
 
Saint George Added Oct 14, 2017 - 10:43pm
Terrorism is not as bad as we are led to believe.
 
 
Neither is carbon dioxide.
 
You're priorities are inverted, Opher.
opher goodwin Added Oct 15, 2017 - 11:40am
John G - coming from you that is shite. I always explain. You never do. What do you stand for Joh? The right to troll?
opher goodwin Added Oct 15, 2017 - 11:53am
Saint - I think not. Global warming is real and will be a massive problem and in comparison terrorism is of little consequence.
John G Added Oct 15, 2017 - 4:13pm
 I always explain. 
Telling us you 'think' something is not explaining.
You can never ever justify yourself. And you call anyone who questions your fucked up thinking a troll.
You just don't like to be questioned.
opher goodwin Added Oct 15, 2017 - 6:14pm
John g - no I just call those arrogant shits who peddle their version of dogma through abuse on other people's posts Trolls. Keep your pathetic abuse to yourself. You need to grow up and learn how to conduct yourself in an intelligent, adult manner. Debate is not about abusing people and arrogantly setting yourself up as some purveyor of truth. Your twisted version of truth is rather sad and certainly a distortion of reality. Believe what you like. What you stand for is disgusting.
John G Added Oct 15, 2017 - 10:53pm
You don't know what I stand for because you're too arrogant to see.
And you effectively stand for nothing.
You talk and talk. You want this and you want that.
But have no idea of how to achieve any of it.
And you demonise the real left, as you are trying to do with me.
Even joining in with the fascist witch's lies, you disgusting scum.
John G Added Oct 15, 2017 - 10:54pm
Dogma?
What dogma do you see from me?
We see yours all the time. That's about all we see apart from your narcissistic self promotion.
The world is this therefore we need that type simplistic dogma.
John G Added Oct 16, 2017 - 1:53am
coming from you that is shite. I always explain.
And yet you won't explain this. Having ignored it 3 times.
This use of neoliberal as a form of abuse is pointless
Excuse me?
opher goodwin Added Oct 18, 2017 - 1:10pm
John - you talk shit.
John G Added Oct 18, 2017 - 4:01pm
You can't tell me what your own comment means?