Has Writer Beat Been Infiltrated by the Russians or is Autumn’s Real Name Natalia?

Anyone who has met me on this forum has surely noticed my difficulties in finding my place among your illustrious community.  I am not mystified by the behavior and views of the U.S.  conservatives and libertarians.  As much as I find their beliefs distasteful, I have always been one to seek common ground and affirm our friendship and shared history as fellow citizens.  Early on I had some run-ins with conservatives mostly because I was not accustomed to communicating with civilized examples of opposing viewpoints.   Most of the right-wing blogs that I used to follow have converted to extreme fetish sites for Trump.  Most of the commenters on my favorite liberal blogs are little more than childish trolls.  Okay, so I learned something and I grew into a more tolerant blogger.


I have met some enigmatic personalities on the WB, to say the least.  I actually have less difficulty with the hardcore American conservatives.  Is it okay with you, SEF, if I simply refer to my countrymen as Americans?  Just for the sake of simplicity.  The first two people I met were Jenifer Frost and John G.  John G. is a problematic friend to be sure.  I can’t even imagine what could motivate a person from another country to hate the Clintons?  I thought that the thirty year war against the Clintons was mostly absorbed by the media obsessed Americans.  Hasn’t he heard of the good works of the Clinton foundation?  Oh, that’s right, it’s just a slush fund.  Maybe he just hates Americans like the beautiful man in the crashing waves at the crystal blue beach.  Whatever your reasons, John, you have made me understand that your hatred of all things Clinton is irredeemable.  You may have something else important to say.  I will stay tuned.


Then I met the Priestess Jenifer Frost.  Interesting to be sure.  A disillusioned former supporter of Obama?  That sounds like propaganda on the surface.  I have never met a serious person on-line who ranted about being disappointed by Obama unless it was that he didn’t reign in the Pentagon or fight harder for liberal policies.  What modern president has ever limited the activities of the Pentagon?  But hold on!  Jenifer made it clear that she supported Syrian president Assad, and get this, Vladimir Putin?  WTF?  Putin?  I support Pussy Riot.


So I look for more moderate voices on the WB.  Stone, aka SEF, seems like a very real person.  He left Switzerland to live in Germany?  Did I get that right?  He likes to condemn anything and everything to do with American politics.  Okay, fair enough.  But on Opher’s recent thread he actually said that many of his acquaintances are so disillusioned with the U.S. that they are looking towards Putin as an ally.  He actually proposed an EU allied with Russia to co-opt the vast resources of Russia as something of a counter force to the U.S.A.  Well, thank the Goddess that at least he still supports the EU.


Doesn’t he know that Putin supported and nudged the 2016 general election in favor of Trump?  Doesn’t everybody with a brain know that?  Wouldn’t that automatically make Putin a toxic player on the world stage?  Not on the WB!


Again, WTF?  This blog becomes more and more surreal with each reading.


So logically, it begs the question(s).  Why are there less than five democrats on this entire forum?  Who the hell are these maniacs that support Putin?  For the love of Christ, he is a totalitarian dictator who hijacked the newfound freedom of the former members of the CCCP.  He served two terms as the president of Russia, put in his puppet while he served as prime minister, successfully increased the presidential term to six years…  If he is re-elected in 2018 he will be the president of Russia until 2024.  What the hell is going on?  Haven’t you guys heard about political prisoners in Russia?  Haven’t you heard of the assassinations that took place under Putin?  Haven’t you heard about the condition of the prisons?


I don’t get it.  I’m just an ordinary American liberal.  I loved my president and I hate Trump to the core.  I have maybe three friends on this forum.  Are you guys infiltrated by Russian trolls?  What other possible explanation could there be?


Flying Junior Added Oct 16, 2017 - 2:41am
In defense of Putin, I will say this.  I have a Ukrainian friend who, at least before the revelations of Russian meddling in the general election, had some affection for Putin.  We laughed together about the media portrayal of Putin as a showboater.  Riding a horse with no shirt.  Hang gliding to guide cranes?
I enjoy my friend.  He told me a great deal of first-hand information about how Ukrainians feel about identifying as Russians.  Most of them speak Russian as their first language.  Ukrainian is an older dialect.
I will never forget the impact of reading, "Tales of Courage and Conflict," by Tolstoy.  I enjoyed the morality fables the most.  But I was very impressed with a story about Sebastopol.  It was a thriving seaport in the nineteenth century.  Among those who brought about its prosperity were the jolly Russian sailors with their money, youth and high spirits.
It does seem that the Ukraine has long been part of Russia.
Honestly, I don't really know who were the good guys and the bad guys in the recent conflicts.  I am not one to accept the U.S. position reflexively.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Oct 16, 2017 - 7:13am
He left Switzerland to live in Germany? 
I'm still living in Switzerland but returning to Africa, means Senegal, beginning of 2018.
He likes to condemn anything and everything to do with American politics.
Thanks for not accusing me to hate the American people, which I don't. I can very well differentiate between a people and the ones who are on top making politics in the name of the economy and the regular Joe which mostly doesn't know too much - either because he has no interest or is too busy working to have the time to get information.
I'm not a fan of Putin. He's a power-driven man as ALL high-up politicians are. But he has brains and can connect facts, and his conclusions are way more logical than Trump's tweets ;-)
It's a matter of respect. I respect Putin for his patience for not reacting harshly to all the provocations from the West. Not only from the US but also from their "allies".
I just wish that the US would have politicians which have brains and knowledge and are independent of the globals and the military who tell them what to do and say.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Oct 16, 2017 - 7:16am
Hasn’t he heard of the good works of the Clinton foundation? 
I have. And since then I also pray to Bill Gates every night.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Oct 16, 2017 - 7:22am
BTW: We're not Russian trolls. We simply live at places where we can have an easier look West and East. And we are almost neighboring Russia. So we know better how to judge them. Don't forget: They were not the source of WWII. But they lost millions of people due to Western war. And it was not only Germany who started it. But ok - that would lead too far.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Oct 16, 2017 - 7:26am
And since then I also pray to Bill Gates every night.
Forgot the ;-)
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Oct 16, 2017 - 7:48am
Doesn’t he know that Putin supported and nudged the 2016 general election in favor of Trump?
Proof ? Hard-ass proof ? None. And don't you know that the US nudged the general "election" of Porochenko in Ukraine ?
There's much more on that. Where was the outcry in the US that its government topples foreign governments ? Only ONE example.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Oct 16, 2017 - 8:09am
War in the Sahara
Worth watching ! Same as it ever was in all those proxy wars: Russia-USA. Big ones kill small ones. We're animals, pal LOL
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Oct 16, 2017 - 8:12am
The problem is only that 9/11 was a wanted attack by the US hegemonial circle in order to justify a war against "terrorism" in the ME. But it hasn't stopped since.....again:
It's the economy, stupid ! (Bill Clinton)
Leroy Added Oct 16, 2017 - 8:31am
Oh, my, FJ!  You better delete this article before JenJen sees it, else you will be a neofascist NAZI liar.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Oct 16, 2017 - 8:40am
My observation of the Author is that he's utterly intolerant of anything and anyone with the temerity to call out his country for its long long list of crimes whether ongoing or past and despite his protestations to the contrary does in fact accept them reflexively. That's just me, I could be wrong.
wsucram15 Added Oct 16, 2017 - 9:37am
There are more conservatives on here because they are so abusive to liberals online and the liberals leave. However, if you speak to them in person I dont find that to be the case, most of the time.  If you dont attack their principles and listen.
On here, like most of the people who attack me, I just present what I can verify.
Now on that topic..your opinion is your opinion.  But how are you forming that opinion?  The cable news, your upbringing, political positions?
Please understand..the media is completely biased on either side.  I can only watch certain shows and only for research purposes on my own.  Sometimes I find good stuff, other times not so much.  There are many investigative news sources that are not tv..and mostly w/o bias.
Thats where you should be looking for your news and you wont find bots there.  Definitely dont get your news on social media.   Im finding that sometimes, each side had a valid point.  I just state in my comments or articles that I dont agree for whatever reason.
No they have no heard about the man who lives in western Maryland who was poisoned twice in Moscow or the murders of journalists or anyone who opposes putin--> the fact that in his first year in office, he did EXACTLY what Trump is trying to do here now but cannot because of Congress.   Its what made him an autocrat.
Also they dont believe the many connections or they dont know..except my screaming about it which they dont believe to Trump and Russia going back to the 80s I think.  IDK I d have to look at my Trump stories I wrote, I have so much research on this guy , Actual hard copy research.  
People on here dont want to hear about Putin..and they dont want to hear about Trump. I believe their ties are financial and most likely illegal in the US, but I dont know that.  I believe we are in this for some time, and it should not be happening...he should have just come forward with whatever it is or NOT, and got this over with so we can move on with business.   He has so much money invested in bad financial moves in countries with questionable leadership (some of which are stalled currently) that the banking questions through VEB(not a bank-loans money through Putin) , VET (not sure on this one yet), Alpha and even Duetsche Bank and those transactions are questionable. 
Now those transactions panned out much better for Putin and his kleptocracy than Trump, which is the problem.  Although Trump fared well also, how well and if any laws were broken is the question.
I do not think anything will come of this...even if the transactions are improper.  I just dont, the problem is what SOME are screaming about on here, it just doesnt matter anymore about ethics, right and wrong.. govt is just bought and paid for.  All of this, is for the election cycle and the public outcry.  This is Washington DC, they already know what the outcome will be...
Leroy Added Oct 16, 2017 - 10:05am
"There are more conservatives on here because they are so abusive to liberals online and the liberals leave."
My impression is that Autumn seeks a balance.  At any given time, there is about an equal number of conservatives and liberals.  I use the terms broadly.  However, I agree that liberals tend not to stick around.
Most liberals come here with the expectation of receiving agreement for everything they say.  They seem to expect a group hug while singing Kumbaya.  When that doesn't happen, they pick up their marbles and go home.  They always support their fellow liberals no matter what rubbish they may espouse.   Conservatives have a thicker skin and cannot agree even among themselves.  They are quick to call out inconsistencies with fellow conservatives.  There is no expectation of group hugs.  They tend towards logic and reason, while liberals tend towards emotion.  Emotions simply cannot stand up to the light of logic and reason, so they just leave.  It is the reason why liberal talk radio is not successful.
Leroy Added Oct 16, 2017 - 10:15am
John G is so far out there that I have no choice but to believe he is from some bizarro parallel universe where everything is opposite to our own.  It is definitive proof of time travel.   I have respect for Wendel, however wrong he may be, but his embrace of John G is a prime example of the above.
Dino Manalis Added Oct 16, 2017 - 10:16am
FDR worked with Stalin to defeat Hitler, we should work with Putin to defeat ISIS and Al Qaeda.  There needs to be a balance between warning Moscow against aggression and working with Russians in pursuit of greater world peace and stability, not provoke them into World War III!
Mike Haluska Added Oct 16, 2017 - 10:24am
Personally I can't comprehend why anyone would fundamentally disagree with Libertarians/Constitutionalists.  If you disagree with following the Constitution and individual freedom, then what's your problem?
The Constitution serves as both a "Rule Book" and a document that specifies and limits the federal government's authority over the people.  If you're a person that just wants to "make up crap as you go along" or thinks the government should have unlimited power over the people . . .  then America is not for you.
wsucram15 Added Oct 16, 2017 - 12:05pm
On several issues there, I dont disagree which was my point to FJ before I was rudely interrupted.  However, common law is established in Article 3 of the Constitution. We are the only country in the world to establish a system of federalism and common laws. Also the 10th and 11th Amendments (1794) giving the State Courts Rights (also the Constitution) Therefore, subject to our current system of laws.
Mj..if you dont want me to comment you.. dont stir the pot with my comments.  I did not bother you at your request..please refrain  from indirectly doing the same.  You troll on here to shit on the US, period.   Im not going to put up with it unless you can write something worth reading which you have done once. 
With that being said..Dino..arent we both accusing the other of working with both?
if Congress felt Putin was even remotely working on the side we could support against Al Qaeda do you not think it would be done?  Russia is helping them in Afghanistan due to provision of weapons to the Taliban, however indirectly. Also from my understanding the Russian "terrorist" attacks are internal and they see these problems differently than other countries do.   IDK... I am not aware of anyone who lives there or is an actual authority on the subject, maybe Mircea.   On the ISIS front, we have been working on that as have the Russians, just for different reasons.   I think we have done pretty well in both cases.   But there is another reason for Congress and that is the 4+1 alliance that is supposed to be the new thing with Russia.  
I guess we will see. It would be good to end most of this.
Ian Thorpe Added Oct 16, 2017 - 12:39pm
Intrigued by the question "Has Writer Beat been infiltrated by the Russians," I started to read and found myself thinking that while I've been sunning myself by The Mediterranean, Writer Beat had been inflitrated by aliens who have little knowledge of this planet. For example:

"I have never met a serious person on-line who ranted about being disappointed by Obama"
Apart from this one, the author has never visited any websites other than Huffington Post and The Daily Kos

"he (SEF) actually said that many of his acquaintances are so disillusioned with the U.S. that they are looking towards Putin as an ally"
Absolutely true, many European economies have been hit hard by US sanctions on Russia, and others are fully aware of how American meddling in middle eastern politics has formented conflicts that have resulted in millions of deaths. It is proved beyond doubt that the USA under Obama funded and supported ISIS. That support was ended by Trump.

Doesn’t he (SEF again) know that Putin supported and nudged the 2016 general election in favor of Trump?
The only evidence to support this ludicrous allegation exists in the deranged mind of Hillary Clinton.
Flying Junior Added Oct 16, 2017 - 1:17pm
You're just another cookie-cutter, conservative talking points guy.
Thank you for the honest responses.  I have had to come to terms myself with what the U.S. has become over the last few decades.  Most of what I see is not very pretty.  The media is out-of-control.  There is rampant and willful ignorance.  But as far as proof of Russian meddling?  How much proof do you need?  How about the Russians on FaceBook posing as Americans?  The meeting in the hotel with Putin’s lawyer?  We can’t really prove that OJ killed Nicole either.
That’s funny.  Liberals see ourselves as diverse and united only in a common sense of purpose driven by love for our fellow citizens and promotion of tolerance and opportunity.  We think that it’s the wicked republicans who vote in lock-step to oppose all sensible progress and allow as much destruction of our earth as is needed to make oodles of cash.  Yes, Autum seeks a balance.  But the authors here have a funny way of knocking liberals off-balance.  My two friends bailed almost immediately.  I have also noticed new authors that didn’t stick around to even answer comments on their first article.
You and I got off on the wrong foot.  What is it you like to say, “98.799% of Duh-mericans?”  Not going to fly with me.
Thank you for attempting to put this Putin thing in perspective for me.  I have a bloggy hero who has documented 45 assassinations by Putin.  The most obvious examples would be the guy poisoned by polonium and more recently the guy who was pushed out of his fourth floor window in Moscow.  It looks like you have provided some great source material.  I actually made of print of this thread so I could address so many comments.  I will definitely take a closer look at what you have to add.
I think Leroy would agree with you that conservatives are constitutionalists.  All good Americans know what is in the constitution as far as defining our government and protecting liberties.  Most strict constructionists that I have known about seem altogether too anxious to abuse their positions of public trust to promote their own activist agenda.   Scalia?  As far as Libertarians?  I thought it was great!  Dennis Kusinich and Ron Paul could have started the anti-war caucus!  But as it turns out, when push comes to shove, guys like Rand Paul are right with the rest of the pro-military crowd.  “Hey Doc, come on over later tonight to help my wife with the birth of our son and we’ll send you home with some chickens and eggs.”  Libertarians are actually quite interesting as people.  Typical republicans today are supporting some dangerous policies.
 Well that’s all the time I have right now!  Back later.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Oct 16, 2017 - 1:43pm
But as far as proof of Russian meddling?  How much proof do you need?
I never said it's IMPOSSIBLE that Russia meddled into US elections. But as long as the US practices the same through NSA, and not only that, but even ousts governments by using the military or covered legionaries of Blackwater style (or Academi today), I don't even discuss that shit. Hypocrisy par excellence, sorry.
The US thinks we're stupid. And the most dangerous thing is that they don't care what others think. Before such stuff happened under coverage. Today it's visible for everyone.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Oct 16, 2017 - 1:47pm
BTW: When the US would admit, hey we do the same as all governments who are capable technically - influence others for our economic interest - ok. No sweat.
But no. They play the victim although they know they're no better. I could fucking puke.
Be honest.....
Flying Junior Added Oct 16, 2017 - 1:54pm
Quite a stone I turned over!
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Oct 16, 2017 - 2:01pm
Only a small one ;-)
wsucram15 Added Oct 16, 2017 - 2:09pm
FJ..I didnt give ou ay sources..if you would like them ask.  I will be happy to provide you with a list.
I do think Russia is a threat..but NOT for the same reasons others think it is... you seem to understand what I am talking about.  I know about the woman in the elevator and several other reporters, the guy who was poisoned (2x) lives in MD or VA, I know his interview was in MD.  The guy who feel off the balcony and the guy shot in front of the Kremlin I am also aware of.
Flying Junior Added Oct 16, 2017 - 2:10pm
Thank you for your comment as well.  One side says the war on terror is a ruse.  You say we need to defeat ISIS.
I don't doubt that the threat of terrorism is very real.  But the only real way to defeat it is with peace.  I was shocked by Obama's willingness to bomb, arm and assassinate with drones.   Part of me wishes to believe that it was all necessary.  But I know in my heart that furthering the violence only perpetuates it.  Peoples of the world can only be won over with good works.  Sadly that is something that has been in short supply from our fair nation.  I did hear wonderful stories about U.S. soldiers helping Afghani farmers.  But that was a drop in the bucket compared to what we have done to harm them.
Why do people want to partner up with Russia?  Keep Russia at a safe distance.  I never laughed harder than when Trump told us all that he and Putin were putting together a joint cyber-security team.  Comedy gold.
Flying Junior Added Oct 16, 2017 - 2:15pm
I was referring to Alexander Litvinenko.  He is quite dead these eleven years. 
I guess my original skim of your comments was inaccurate.  But I always enjoy discussing and learning more about the constitution.
John G Added Oct 16, 2017 - 2:53pm
There is one true statement in your childish rant.
You don't get it.
Ian Thorpe Added Oct 16, 2017 - 2:59pm
Ian, You're just another cookie-cutter, conservative talking points guy.

So we can take it as read that you cannot answer any of my points. C'mon, let's just look at the first point I picked out, which is not a "conservative talking point" but YOUR  talking point.

"I have never met a serious person on-line who ranted about being disappointed by Obama"

FFS do you actually think WB participants are stupid enough to believe that. This time last year even Obama's most avid supporters were saying what an absolute waste of space he'd been and how the only thing he'd achieved in eight years was to push same sex marriage through. Against that we must set the doubling of the government debt, the wars, the waiter and bartender economy and a nation divided on wealth, political, religious and racial lines. And serious people, (not people who agree with you, but people who are well informed and articulate enough to argue their case,) have been talking about this. Yet you claim you have never seen a single one? You'll be telling us next that Harvey Weinstein must be innocent because he was a supporter of Hillary Clinton and Hillary would never tolerate a man who is a known sex abuser. ROTFLMFAO
Flying Junior Added Oct 16, 2017 - 3:22pm
You're just dead wrong, Ian.  Just about all of us were sorry to see him go.
Flying Junior Added Oct 16, 2017 - 3:24pm
I loved your comment about talk radio.  What does Rush promote, "The Institute for Advanced Conservative Studies?"  His network is "Excellence in Broadcasting!?!"  He just throws red meat to the hungry dogs.  No emotion there.
Talk radio is inherently a waste of time, but I'm certain that liberal talk radio is still thriving in Portland, Oregon.
John G Added Oct 16, 2017 - 3:35pm
There is a reason that liberals get on better with the right (even the extremist libertarians) and that is that liberals are right wing.
The DNC et al are pro-capitalist and anti-labour. More for the rich, crumbs for the poor. Neoliberalism as economic policy, 'humanitarian interventionist' neoconservative foreign policy.
And liberals hate the left more than they hate even the fascists.
Anyone who thinks the Clinton Foundation actually operates like a charity is a credulous idiot. It is an international bag operation for corruption  and influence peddling.
Your anti-Russian shit is comic book propaganda straight out of the McCarthy era.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Oct 16, 2017 - 3:53pm
Why do people want to partner up with Russia?  Keep Russia at a safe distance.
Why do people want to partner up with the US ?  Keep the US at a safe distance.
Now think about it. As I told you: We're neighbors with Russia. Not with the US. The US prefers its wars AWAY from the homeland. Think more......
Leroy Added Oct 16, 2017 - 4:22pm
If I were Russian, after Hitler and Napolean, I would not trust Europe.  No doubt some European bonehead will attempt to take over Russia again.  If I were Russian, I would have more confidence dealing with the US.  But, that is just me.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Oct 16, 2017 - 4:30pm
Flying J: We need more contributors who stay around.
I don't know if more conservatives or more liberals hang around here. It is possible that we have more conservatives.
There are multiple studies that show that conservatives are more likely to engage with people from different views. Conservatives are more debate happy than liberals. As a rule of thumb, liberals want to pronounce and be cheered, conservatives want to fight.
Most newcomers are liberals because Autumn picks up bloggers who want to pronounce. They don't last long.
I have a similar problem, though. My views are too unique to be shared by many people. Those who I align with most don't have a vested interest in the area where I live. I don't say that to brag about it, but to think freely makes you intellectually lonely. So I understand that you lack the cameradery which you are used of offline.
P.S. I hate the Russian government and the anti-Russian hysteria alike.
Mike Haluska Added Oct 16, 2017 - 4:31pm
The Left thinks that "it may be possible" can be construed as "proof it happened"!  They act as if irrational emotional behavior is a virtue.
wsucram15 Added Oct 16, 2017 - 4:50pm
Now Benjamin..I agree with your opinion on Russia the government and the current story-line in US.
However, to stay on WB for any length of time, you have to either enjoy arguing or be moderate.   I try to do both...which depends on the issue.
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Oct 16, 2017 - 5:11pm
This article is pure racist McCarthyism. Russophobic crazy, just like what is exposed here :
“Establishment Cult Leader: ‘Russian Propagandist’ = Anyone Who Criticized Hillary” https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/establishment-cult-leader-russian-propagandist-anyone-who-criticized-hillary-af94fe34fd1f

Just more crazy from a neoliberal Clintonite cultist. I'll pass. But if you can provide proof I'm Russian I'll give you $10,000. Put up or shut up. 
Flying Junior Added Oct 16, 2017 - 5:56pm
Thank you for weighing in, Lady Sekhmetnakt.  Sorry to have used you as an example of how the WB seems to bewilder me.  I had quite forgotten about your source, Ms. Caity Johnstone.  She is indeed a gem.
I can take some comfort that 65,853,515 other Americans voted with me.  It is a popular cult.  That puts us in the majority, does it not?
I'll take a look at what she has to say today.
Flying Junior Added Oct 16, 2017 - 6:02pm
That really is something.  Honestly, I was disgusted by Verrit.  I thought it was at best extremely embarrassing.  I guess the Russian troll thing is just too tempting.  I apologize.  I'm sure that I have met some on-line.  Most likely on The Field Negro.  But there really is no way to tell.  Americans are so easy to impersonate and caricaturize.
No, the haters are not de facto Russian propagandists.  Most of the Hillary haters live right here in the good old U.S.A.
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Oct 16, 2017 - 6:03pm
BTW my position on who I supported and when is public record via my Twitter account (@Sekhmetnakt) which goes back to 2011. So much for your "I'm a fake disgruntled Democrat" theory.
Also I'm pretty sure that not everyone even who voted for Clinton is half as crazy or bigoted as you. 
John G Added Oct 16, 2017 - 6:06pm
If FJ is not  a David Brock paid DNC troll he's doing a pretty good impression.
Leroy Added Oct 16, 2017 - 6:13pm
"Also I'm pretty sure that not everyone even who voted for Clinton is half as crazy or bigoted as you."
I was close.  Give it time and you may become a neo-fascist NAZI liar.
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Oct 16, 2017 - 6:23pm
Only Leroy would think that someone countering a paranoid conspiracy theorist's unhinged bigotry deserves a counter counter attack. Maybe I should write an article about Leroy the Chinese spy, and see if I get (rightfully) called a liar and slanderer. Or do you insist on limitless hypocrisy Leroy? 
Jeff Michka Added Oct 16, 2017 - 6:26pm
MJ (from South Africa) sez: we all had enough of thewhimsical Obama!  Ah, all your buds in SA HAD ENOUGH OF oBAMA, EH?  You can always express an opinion here, but you've no stake in US politics.  Perhaps your pard, Zuma will pluck up the courage and imprison all you white people in SA and have a mass war crimes trial.  The era of "go along to get along" in SA is over.  I bet you still have a de Klerk shrine somewhere in what you live in, and regularly pray for him to come back and put "those people" back in prison and townships, but most where they can't be seen, right?
Leroy Added Oct 16, 2017 - 6:33pm
Knock yourself out, JenJen.
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Oct 16, 2017 - 6:36pm
That's not the kind of person I am Leroy. 
John G Added Oct 16, 2017 - 6:40pm
Leroy the knuckle dragging cracker: If I were Russian, after Hitler and Napolean, I would not trust Europe.  
Oh the irony. Coming from an American that's rich.
John G Added Oct 16, 2017 - 6:43pm
The rich irony of all this anti-Russian propaganda is that it is being manufactured by the very forces that have been attempting to subvert Russian democracy, including trying to interfere in their electoral process.
Which as it happens is far more transparent than the USA's electoral system, which is an absolute farce.
You people are in upside down world.
Jeff Michka Added Oct 16, 2017 - 6:49pm
lady segmentyerhat sez: Maybe I should write an article about Leroy the Chinese spy, and see if I get (rightfully) called a liar and slanderer.-You always can. Would have to be more entertaining than your Putin praise articles, full of the none existent deep state and tell us once again how Hillary Clinton will be appointed president and immediately start WWIII. And you've already demonstrated you are a liar and slanderer (libelist) already.  Would think even you would have tired, but perhaps not.  You can publish the article about Leroy on The Medium, and call it "jounalism."
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Oct 16, 2017 - 6:51pm
Troll spam comment above ^
Flying Junior Added Oct 16, 2017 - 6:51pm
My apologies again, lady Sekhmetnakt.  I honestly thought that I remembered you saying that initially you supported Obama.  My memory seems to have tricked me.
John G.
Years Putin will presumably remain in power, 2000-2024.  That's your idea of a democracy?  Maybe you like Robert Mugabe as well? 
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Oct 16, 2017 - 6:55pm
I did initially support Obama. In his first bid for president I campaigned for him. Again, you can check my Twitter account to verify that. I grew up and figured out that the so called "liberals" are no different from the corporate conservatives who they in fact support over the poor and working people. 
Jeff Michka Added Oct 16, 2017 - 7:03pm
lady segmentyerhat sez: Troll spam comment above-I didn't see your comment, and btw you and pal Geo have trolled and trolled and trolled, but one expects that from a puntinista.  Flying got your range, segmentyerhat.  Think or actually learn something about McCarthyism. You babble like you know something about it.  Maybe someone has something on the Medium that will suit you, then after reading what it really is, think very carefully.  Remember, you, by your own "acclaim" are a putinista.  What happen to people who ran afoul of McCarthy? 
John G Added Oct 16, 2017 - 7:24pm
FJ. What's so great about term limits?
It's an American obsession. There are good arguments for and against.
Putin keeps winning because Russians like the job that he's done.
Russia is every bit as democratic as the USA plus some. Despite the madness and destruction of the USA/Yeltsin years.
And despite your ranting, Putin is by far the most popular political leader on the planet by a wide margin.
FYI, Mugabe remains popular in Zimbabwe.
You swallow western propaganda without any skepticism it seems.
That's the problem when people don't understand how things work in the real world and they start to see what the media is feeding them as real.
Orwell was right.
Flying Junior Added Oct 16, 2017 - 9:40pm
I'm sorry Jeff, but I'm sure your first two comments expressed your feelings quite elegantly enough.  The invective was getting a bit rough.  I don't have formal guidelines, but name-calling and profanity...  I do it too.  Welcome to the club.
Michael B. Added Oct 16, 2017 - 11:43pm
FJ, if only you were here last year, in the salad days of Ryan Messano and "Marylin French". Things have simmered down somewhat ever since, lol.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Oct 16, 2017 - 11:52pm
Michael I could have gone all year without hearing that cunt's name. Wherever she/it is I wish great suffering upon her/it. 
Michael B. Added Oct 16, 2017 - 11:56pm
Captain Gilbert! LOFL!!! Somehow I knew the utterance of either of those creatures would get a response, but in your case, a welcome one! LOL
John G Added Oct 17, 2017 - 1:13am
John G is so far out there that I have no choice but to believe he is from some bizarro parallel universe where everything is opposite to our own
No Leroy, you're just an economic illiterate who doesn't have the intelligence to get your head around anything more complex than a household budget.
And you're a cracker.
Flying Junior Added Oct 17, 2017 - 1:18am
Post Script.
Thank you so much.  I guessed that this post would most likely fall flat.  Maybe there is one thing that most of us can agree upon.  The exploitation of indigenous peoples and their lands by colonial or imperialist powers is an injustice.
Stone linked me to a report on the new resource wars in Africa.  G. and I touched upon the subject of Zimbabwe.
I don’t really know Zimbabwe or much about the continent.  I do have some knowledge and affection for Nigeria.  I even met a fascinating Nigerian about ten years ago who remembered being taught in British schools the arts of singing in a choir and the trumpet.  “Onward Christian Soldiers!”  I know about the ruthless destruction brought about by the oil companies upon the precious rivers which once provided fish for the people.  The worst examples to my knowledge were the abuses by Chevron.  The river habitat was devastated by the oil pollution.  Chevron walked away unrepentant and unpunished.
My love for Nigeria comes from my school days when I researched the post-war music of Lagos and the clubs popularly known as Highlife.  Although the music was described in histories, I never really found any recordings of Highlife, but I pitched in and proceeded with a more complete study of Ju Ju Music, particularly as performed by King Sunny Adé.  I often wondered if the Nigerian man I befriended was a type of prince or nobility.  These noble lines come from the mighty Yoruban tribe.  There are many princes and kings.
I became interested in Nigerian music after listening to the African Beat on KCRW Los Angeles.  I heard many fascinating examples of world music spanning a period from 1979 to 1985.  I recorded as much as I could on cassette tape, but all is lost today.  All except for my memories.  My two most vivid memories were of songs by Fela Ransome Kuti, who changed his name to Fela Anikulapo Kuti.  Fela studied music in London beginning in 1960.  He was influenced by American jazz.  Ten years later he had founded a group he called the Afro-Beat 1970.  Fela is beloved to this day as the foremost pioneer of African protest music.  His songs are very long, fifteen minutes or more.  They begin with a bass groove with percussion.  An electric organ or piano or both bring in the melody before the saxophone enters.  After several minutes, the songs begin.  He smoked Ganja.
I remembered two songs which with the help of googol/youtube I actually found nearly forty years later.
“Who No Know Go Know,” and “Upside Down.”  This is my clumsy gift to all of you.  There is not much else I can offer today of any value.  You like music, right John?
One of the commenters on the YouTube thread touched me.  He said that if Fela could see his beloved Nigeria today he would be heartbroken with 70% of the population living on as little as one dollar a day while the economy produced more than $600 Billion per annum.  And, tragically, the Boko Haraam.
I hope you enjoy this music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX81sSnfvi4  “Who No Know Go Know.”  (The only thing that I really remembered was, “Oh No No Kono.”  Bless the googol algorithm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Eh_1m0JhM0  “Upside Down.”  All I really remembered of this song was a D-minor groove with an extended electric organ introduction by Feli on a particularly bright and pretty late 1960s or early 1970 electric organ, presumably a Vox.  I listened to about fifty songs until I found it.  I did remember the female vocals once I heard them again.
Flying Junior Added Oct 17, 2017 - 1:26am
Oh yeah.  And the tightest horn section you ever heard.  Dig about three minutes in on, "Upside Down."
Maybe James Brown.  That's the only guy I can think of who even came close.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Oct 17, 2017 - 1:30am
I've been to Nigeria. We're someone to hand me an enema tube and a globe and tell me to place the tube anywhere I would choose Lagos. 
Flying Junior Added Oct 17, 2017 - 1:47am
Social injustice.  Exploitation.
John G Added Oct 17, 2017 - 2:12am
Well that was all pointless.
Flying Junior Added Oct 17, 2017 - 2:15am
Give it a listen, Johnnie.  What have you got to lose?  Can't sit still for ten minutes?
John G Added Oct 17, 2017 - 2:28am
You've made your article pointless by not defending your assertions.
Lady Sekhmetnakt Added Oct 17, 2017 - 2:36am
I can accept when someone admits they are wrong. And the music is pretty good. 
John G Added Oct 17, 2017 - 3:51am
I can accept when someone admits they are wrong. 
Where did he do that?
And the music is pretty good. 
Not my cup of tea.
opher goodwin Added Oct 17, 2017 - 4:05am
Flying Junior - It is as Jeanne said - the extremely abusive right-wingers on here + John G, who is an abusive Muslim sycophant, are so obnoxious that they drive people away. I know of a couple who I am still in contact with who simply got pissed off with the nastiness and reckoned they did not need it. I think that is the intent.
It does make it hard because if you are interested in hearing the other side of an argument or finding out anything you have to engage in intelligent debate. There is no intelligent debate to be had with these people. They are either sending you links to bogus sites that back up their extreme views or hurling vile personal abuse. What they never do is discuss things in a reasoned manner. It is very frustrating.
Their whole purpose seems to be to troll your threads, disrupt any debate and be as obnoxious as possible. They are so stuck in their own rut of total belief that there is no room for argument. Their tactic is to shout and abuse.
It upsets the balance of the site.
opher goodwin Added Oct 17, 2017 - 4:10am
Flying Junior - I'm on the side of Pussy Riot too. And think that Trump is a sick sociopathic narcissist who is putting us in extreme danger and making America look silly. Every American I've met is embarrassed by him and apologises profusely. But he's not only an embarrassment - he's dangerous - and IMO he reflects something very sick in the American psyche that is even more dangerous.
John G Added Oct 17, 2017 - 4:17am
 John G, who is an abusive Muslim sycophant,
I genuinely laughed out loud at that. 
I'm on the side of Pussy Riot too.
Of course you are. You are on the side of Washington against the rest of us.
You can't back up any of your stupid allegations Goodwin. You just can't take criticism.
John G Added Oct 17, 2017 - 4:19am
It upsets the balance of the site.
Between the extreme right wing and the ultra extreme right wing?
John G Added Oct 17, 2017 - 4:20am
We're someone to hand me an enema tube and a globe and tell me to place the tube anywhere I would choose Lagos. 
Really? Texas would be my choice.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Oct 17, 2017 - 4:25am
Texas would be my choice.
So you and DOHpher agree on something afterall.
John G Added Oct 17, 2017 - 4:38am
Probably for different reasons. 
I spent some time there and hated it. Everything about it.
I had an office in St Louis, Missouri for a while that I had to visit once a month. That would be my second choice.
Mircea Negres Added Oct 17, 2017 - 6:21am
Well FJ, a democrat is having problems with expensive prepaid data and has thus been a bit scarce lately... My thinking on the matter is that at least one person here is a troll, possibly Russian, but by far it is best to avoid feeding the m^&%^$U#er and stick around. Give yourself some time to figure out the currents in this place, then finding a niche will come soon after.  
Leroy Added Oct 17, 2017 - 7:53am
"Maybe there is one thing that most of us can agree upon.  The exploitation of indigenous peoples and their lands by colonial or imperialist powers is an injustice."
It was unfortunate, but we did nothing more than what they did themselves.  It was at that point in history the way of the world: conquer or be conquered.
wsucram15 Added Oct 17, 2017 - 9:16am
Oh MichaelB..those were the days..French and Messano.  Wow.
JohnG..pussy riot..what the hell do they have to do with DC? Seriously?   John..aside from the one reliable article you sent from the intercept which showed some damage to the Russian argument (however not the financial aspect), people need to see this for themselves. 
Just like you need to see Trump is not the genius everyone (him) proclaims he is and a longtime criminal. He may not have done all the things alluded to by the press but before this is over, (when he is exonerated), people will be more aware of who he is and what is happening in the government overall. Perhaps.   He will have exposed that at least.
John G Added Oct 17, 2017 - 3:39pm
JohnG..pussy riot..what the hell do they have to do with DC? 
You're beyond help, Jeanne.
Michael B. Added Oct 17, 2017 - 8:00pm
Pussy Riot. That has to be one of the best band names ever, ever, ever fucking ever! LOOOOL!!! Too bad that their "music" sucks Russian ass, but that's OK, much like most women, I'd rather look at them than hear them anyway!
John G Added Oct 17, 2017 - 8:23pm
Employees of the US State Department via the National Endowment for Democracy.
Credibility - zero.
Of course the pathetic liberals will swallow it whole.
Flying Junior Added Oct 18, 2017 - 12:57am
You have all seen this, right?
Make American Great Again!
John G Added Oct 18, 2017 - 5:05am
Liberals are getting more and more Republican every day.
Saint George Added Oct 18, 2017 - 8:17am
Extreme leftists and extreme rightists agree on most things. Because extremes always meet.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Oct 18, 2017 - 8:24am
Thanks for mentioning Nigerian music. I especially like Femi Kuti, the son of Fela, and Davido. The latter is more kind of for the younger, but still the energy is there.
Aye - Davido
Flying Junior Added Oct 18, 2017 - 11:34am
Very pretty.  Right now, the raw power of Fela is speaking to me.  I'm still thrilled I found those two songs.  Most definitely I will check into Femi.
Zachery d Taylor Added Oct 19, 2017 - 2:24pm
HHMMmmm interesting conclusions but I doubt it Writer Beat doesn't get enough traffic to make it worth the Russians while; and if there is anything to the Russian conspiracy theories they can't be nearly as important as rigging by the mainstream media that enabled two crooks to get the nomination, which could never have happened if they provided diverse coverage for honest candidates! 
"What other possible explanation could there be?"
How about A Social Psychology Research Project?
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Oct 20, 2017 - 9:37am
Here's something from Senegal, not new but still....
And yes, this comment is not suitable for a social psychology research project :-)
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Oct 20, 2017 - 9:40am
Or here's some Mali stuff...
Salif Keita - Mandjou
Even A Broken Clock Added Oct 20, 2017 - 9:47am
FJ, here's another liberal voice who has not had a bad problem with opposing viewpoints so far. Especially on my own posts I try to comment reasonably with those who disagree. I will admit to being snarky on a few posts that seem to be over the top from time to time.
This is a small enclosure of writers and readers. My own posts do get read more often here than on my own blog, and do get comments here which I seldom do on my own blog. There are many who write on this site who I have come to respect for their writing ability, even if I think their perspective is incorrect. Engaging in dialogue is enjoyable for me so far.
Flying Junior Added Oct 20, 2017 - 10:24pm
Zachery,  I think the explanation is that there is a chasm every bit as deep as the distance between Lazarus as he rested with Abraham and the rich man who languished in Hades.  That chasm is the great American divide.  I am frightened by the widespread support for Trump and the utter contempt for traditional U.S. principles of democracy.
Stone and Even a Broken Clock.  Thank you.  Nice to see you guys.
John G Added Oct 21, 2017 - 12:00am
traditional U.S. principles of democracy.
Simply Jews Added Oct 21, 2017 - 1:29pm
"Has Writer Beat Been Infiltrated by the Russians?"
A short answer will be "да, конечно". The longer version of the answer: no more than any other internet forum, infested as soon as a critical mass threshold is reached.
I enjoyed your post more than anything I have seen on WB so far.
And your reference to a specific pair of characters (I am still not sure it is a pair and not one person and his/her sock puppet) is more or less on the money. But every village must have its... er...   entertainers. 
Of course, they (he/she) might have gone more lightly on the adoration of a certain KGB colonel. But being fed most of the input from a ridiculous  Russian circus show named RT (which no self-respecting Russian will ever watch) definitely causes calluses on one's remaining brain cells. 
Surely, when one is able to write stuff like "Russia didn't annex Crimea" and keep trolling other people's posts incessantly, it is a sure testimony of steel nerves and and unswerving loyalty of a highest degree. But are these two examples of Russian infiltrators? 
Anyway, it was refreshing.
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Oct 21, 2017 - 2:20pm
write stuff like "Russia didn't annex Crimea" and keep trolling other people's posts incessantly
You're an ok guy but you really have no idea about that. Was the Kosovo hindered to form its own country ? What's the difference between Catalonia and Eastern Russia ? We'll see.
Please. Don't repeat stuff without considering the facts behind it. "Annexation" is a headline catcher.
John G Added Oct 21, 2017 - 6:02pm
The word 'annex' wasn't the one used. Typical hasbara type tactic there.
Flying Junior Added Oct 21, 2017 - 7:10pm
I'm glad you enjoyed it SJ.  It was more or less a cry for help.  I am happy to have found some sympathetic voices here on the WB.  I am learning to simply avoid troublesome characters.  I appreciated your article from two years ago.  It is amazing how minds are manipulated and shaped.  It didn't begin with Russian interference.  The phenomenon is made in the U.S.A.  Now there is an entire network of rumor mills, false narratives and any quantity of untruths that are more or less taken for factual accounts by the adherents.
It doesn't look like it is going to go away any time soon.
I keep telling myself I will write a post on the role of literature in the struggle for civil rights.  Unfortunately my premise is that we were on track with that more than seventy years ago.  My first example is a short story from 1940 entitled, "Color Trouble," about a problem with two African-Americans being asked to move to the back of the bus in North Carolina.  The second example is, "An Act of Faith," by Irwin Shaw from 1945.  The latter is quite famous and there is abundant source material to compare with my own conclusions.  I would like to trace progress from 1940 to the present and maybe understand what went wrong.
Simply Jews Added Oct 22, 2017 - 12:45am
"What's the difference between Catalonia and Eastern Russia ?"
From the point of view of the Creator (if you believe in such) there is indeed no difference. What are borders, after all? They are for the weak and conservative ;-)
Simply Jews Added Oct 22, 2017 - 12:46am
"It doesn't look like it is going to go away any time soon."
Right. If ever...
Leroy Added Oct 22, 2017 - 7:40am
"I am frightened by the widespread support for Trump and the utter contempt for traditional U.S. principles of democracy."
Me too--but for the opposite reason.  Like it or not, Trump is the duly elected president.  Too many people are trying to nullify the election because they don't like the results, including many Republicans.  It's funny how some people call this democracy.  It drives at the very point of having contempt for traditional US principles of democracy.  It is truly remarkable how blind hatred of Trump has made it acceptable to undermine the democratic process.  
It is not Trump who is causing the division; it is those with blind hatred of the democratically elected president who use every means available, including violence, to undermine the choice of the people.
I lived under eight years under a president who usurped the power of Congress, yet I did not hear the same cry from the liberal crowd about undermining democracy.  Obviously, we have a different understanding of the meaning of democracy.  I interpret democracy as self-rule.  Apparently, the liberal definition is authoritarian rule.  I understand that liberals have a different view and they believe their view in the correct one.  I get that.  What I don't get is trying to force that view on everyone else, even if it comes at the expense of democracy.
Leroy Added Oct 22, 2017 - 7:49am
I understand that the liberal crowd believes it has the moral high ground and stood by its fierce leader as he undermined the power of Congress and the Constitution.  Right make the use of force right.  I see absolutely no difference between this and those trying to enforce Sharia law on the US.  The liberal crowd believes it is right; therefore, all means are justified to install its version of Sharia law on the American people.
Jeff Michka Added Oct 22, 2017 - 12:37pm
Leroy actually sez: I see absolutely no difference between this and those trying to enforce Sharia law on the US.-Who do you "see" doing that. Leroy? Just who is getting Sharia law on the books and enforcing it here in the states?  Where is this happening?  The "Sharia law is coming" crap is more rightist noise to frighten the stupid.  It has worked, apparently.
Flying Junior Added Oct 22, 2017 - 2:18pm
I think blatant cancellation of voter registration is a disruption of the democratic process.  I think laws that make it more difficult to vote in the guise of preventing non-existent fraud subverts the democratic process.  I would say that using budget reconciliation to pass a 50% tax cut for the über-wealthy is questionable, although not without precedent in major legislation by both parties.  I'll say it is unjust and despicable.  I believe it spells economic suicide for the federal government.  But that's what they want, isn't it?
Leroy Added Oct 22, 2017 - 4:37pm
I didn't have my voter registration canceled.  Should I feel left out?
John G Added Oct 22, 2017 - 5:58pm
I think blatant cancellation of voter registration is a disruption of the democratic process.
It's been going on for 20 years. Why haven't the Democratic Party addressed it?
Considering the DNC did it to stop Bernie Sanders winning the primary, they might be a bit averse to a serious investigation. 
The fact is that the Dems would prefer to have Republicans win office than progressives.
Flying Junior Added Oct 23, 2017 - 3:35am
The DNC removed voters from the rolls to stop Sanders?  That's laughable.  How did they know which people to eliminate?  It's not quite as clear cut as oppressing the poor or black and brown people.  Pretty soon it will be house by house, Goddess help us.  Most of the misinformed go off about superdelegates.  The fact is that more  people voted for Hillary in just about every primary.  You don't live here, I don't expect you to really know what is going on or what has happened.  How about you and I just have a gentleman's agreement to stop bitching about HRC?  I doubt I will have much motivation to mention her name in the future.  Not on the WB.  Once bitten...
Now the 2008 victory by Obama over Hillary was flawed on many levels.  But I don't expect you to have much knowledge of that situation.  Why would you even care? 
John G Added Oct 23, 2017 - 7:45pm
The DNC removed voters from the rolls to stop Sanders?  That's laughable. 
It happens to be true. And they flipped the vote in several states
You are just incredibly poorly informed.
You don't live here, I don't expect you to really know what is going on or what has happened. 
This is typical right wing stupidity. We do have the internet out here in Furrinerland, numb nuts.
Leroy Added Oct 23, 2017 - 8:26pm
Welcome to John G's bizarro world where everything is opposite from what it is and where even Flying J is a rightwing nut job.
Flying Junior Added Oct 23, 2017 - 9:12pm
I like you Leroy.  I think that conservatives and liberals need to come together.
John G Added Oct 23, 2017 - 10:27pm
Today's liberals are the Reagan conservatives of the 80s.
John G Added Oct 23, 2017 - 10:28pm
Welcome to John G's bizarro world where everything is opposite from what it 
Another wingnut who doesn't believe that the DNC removed voters from the rolls in several states. Most notably in NY.
Flying Junior Added Oct 24, 2017 - 1:07am
I guess this thread is getting a bit stale, but I just wanted to thank Stone for the music from Mali and Senegal.  They were both terrific and led deeply into the YouTube sphere of musical influence.  Mrs. Junior and myself particularly enjoyed the Salif Keita.  The song you linked had the old school African Beat groove to it, but was clearly more recent.  YouTube served up a concert he did which began with a solo song he played on an acoustic.  Enjoyed all 1:13 minutes of it.
Thank you.  I used to hear so much world music on Los Angeles radio.
Leroy Added Oct 24, 2017 - 7:45am
"I like you Leroy.  I think that conservatives and liberals need to come together."
I come from what used to be the most conservative city in the most conservative state in the union.  But, even here, most people identify with being a social liberal.  I don't think we are that far apart in that regard.  I used to like Patrick Moynihan a lot.  He was an honest liberal.  We need more people in government like that.  The liberals of today distance themselves from him and I think it is unfortunate.
Somewhere along the line, the liberals took a hard left and threw the Constitution out the window.  They celebrated O's abuse of EO's because it moved them closer to the dream.  Today, violence is acceptable to get the message across.  The KKK used similar methods in the past and is a black spot on our history.  It seems to me that the progressives believe they are right and any means used to obtain the dream is acceptable.  First and foremost, the Constitution must be thrown out the door.
I'm not a conservative, but, in a broad sense, I accept that label.  In order for liberals and conservatives to come together, there has to be a solid foundation upon which to build.  I happen to think our Founding Fathers got it right.  Therefore, respect for the Constitution is paramount.  If we don't like it, then change the Constitution, but don't legislate from the bench.  Don't let the executive branch usurp the powers of Congress.  Don't let Congress overstep the bounds of the Constitution.
If we can agree that the Constitution is the foundation upon which we will build, then conservatives and liberals can come together.  Otherwise, it will come down to civil war.
Simply Jews Added Oct 24, 2017 - 8:18am
"Somewhere along the line, the liberals took a hard left and threw the Constitution out the window."
Not being an American, I take an exception to the distortion that happened during the last... 20, I would say... years with the term "liberal" in US of A. I would say that the people you have in mind in that quote are not liberals in the original sense of that term. 
In modern American liberal means "pinko commie", rather than its original meaning: 
"Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally they support ideas and programmes such as freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free markets, civil rights, democratic societies, secular governments, gender equality and international cooperation."
A real liberal today will be hated by both ultra-left and extra-right. 
Leroy Added Oct 24, 2017 - 12:15pm
SJ, I consider myself a liberal.  However, in today's context, anyone who believes the Constitution is still relevant is a conservative, rightwing nutjob.  More precisely, I call myself a Classical Liberal.  And, yes, I am not loved by the far right and hated by the far left.  Your point is well-taken.
Many progressive liberals have good intentions.  They want to right the wrongs that they see.  But, they lack the patience to change the world slowly.  They rarely take a longterm view.   They are prone to knee-jerk reactions.  Society doesn't turn on a dime.  Past prejudices can't be legislated out of existence.  It's almost always a mistake to force something on people.  There will always be pushback.
If a liberal, progressive Democratic president picks a Supreme Court Justice nominee, it won't be one who believes the Constitution says what it means.  He will believe that the Constitution is open to modern interpretation.  Our Forefathers weren't all-knowledgeable and couldn't have known what modern technology would bring.  But, the Constitution is a living document that can be changed.  It should not be changed by reinterpretation and edict but rather by legal means.   Otherwise, you see the conflict that we have today.  O legislated from the executive office.  A large number of people didn't appreciate it.  But, once given, a gift is difficult to take away.  Now Trump is undermining just about everything O did.  A large number of people don't appreciate it.  What results?  Conflict.
Simply Jews Added Oct 24, 2017 - 12:45pm
Yes, a quandary indeed.
John G Added Oct 24, 2017 - 4:56pm
The political centre in the neoliberal era has moved way to the right. The Democratic Party is being run by people that should be in the Rs and would have been in the Reagan era.
The majority of WB readers seem to only use identity politics and social wedge issues as determinants of their left/right view.
The differences are economic.
You can't be pro-capitalism and anti-labour like the DNC and be considered a leftist.
John G Added Oct 24, 2017 - 4:57pm
Leroy is a classic fascist. FJ is a right of centre liberal.
Flying Junior Added Oct 25, 2017 - 3:08am
I'll take that as a compliment.  Cheers!
John G Added Oct 25, 2017 - 4:16am
Certainly not. Liberals are idiots that are handing power to the fascists and blocking the left.
When you cuddle up to George Bush and the McCains of this world, you are as bad as those you pretend to oppose come election time.
Leroy Added Oct 25, 2017 - 6:12am
John G's bizarro world....
Whatever he says, we must assume he means the opposite.  Right of center actually means left of center.  Fascist means capitalist.  Conservative means liberal.  Liberal means conservative.  Try substituting the terms and he actually makes sense.
John G Added Oct 25, 2017 - 4:59pm
Your problem, and his, is that you have no idea of what capitalism actually is. Your head is full of bullshit courtesy of capitalist conditioning e.g. the Nazis were socialists and fascism is socialism nonsense that seems to have currency here.
This was the message of 1984. Change the language, change history, control the people.
Leroy Added Oct 25, 2017 - 7:52pm
I know that it is stretch for some to accept that National Socialism (NAZI) is a form socialism.  But then, if I take the opposite of what you say, then it all makes sense, Bizarro John.
John G Added Oct 25, 2017 - 9:09pm
Well I can't stop you being a knuckle dragging moron.
Leroy Added Oct 25, 2017 - 9:54pm
Thanks for the compliment, Bizarro.
John G Added Oct 25, 2017 - 10:01pm
Sure thing, cracker.
John G Added Oct 26, 2017 - 1:21am
FJ: The DNC removed voters from the rolls to stop Sanders?  That's laughable.  
NY Faces Demand For Election Reforms After Illegal Primary Voter Purge
I can't hear you........
Flying Junior Added Oct 26, 2017 - 2:02am
Thank you for that information, John.  I'm not sure exactly how to process it.  HRC won by more than 3.7 million votes or a 12% margin reflecting over 55% of democratic voters versus Sanders' 43%.
But I do appreciate your input.  It is good when we can learn from others.  Rarely do we change minds, but that has been known to happen.
John G Added Oct 26, 2017 - 2:51am
 HRC won by more than 3.7 million votes or a 12% margin reflecting over 55% of democratic voters versus Sanders' 43%.
No she didn't.
Clearly you haven't 'processed the information'.
You are quoting the fake figures from the corrupt DNC.
Ian Thorpe Added Oct 26, 2017 - 10:42am
SJ, you show courage in posting a reminder of what 'liberal' actually means, the Obama and Clinton adoring authoritarians will not appreciate it, but they need reminding frequently.
Simply Jews Added Oct 26, 2017 - 10:53am
Ian, it is just a dictionary quote. No courage at all...
John G Added Oct 26, 2017 - 6:04pm
Liberals are the petit bourgeoise. The receivers of crumbs from the capitalist class that have traditionally been the circuit breakers that ensured the oligarchs and banksters didn't get hanged from lamp posts.
They are NOT progressives in any real sense but they have differing stances on wedge issues from the more authoritarian right.
Jeff Michka Added Oct 26, 2017 - 7:14pm
Whether Leroy is a fascist or a liberal, he hasn't stopped by and warned us WHERE Sharia law was being implemented in the states.  Would be big news, if it was anywhere, which it's not in the US.  That's another rightist fantasy to gin up "the base."
Jeff Michka Added Oct 28, 2017 - 5:11pm
Leroy asks: didn't have my voter registration canceled.  Should I feel left out-Yup, but do keep commenting.  One puntinista will call you a Zionist Nazi troll.  Sooner or later she calls everyone that. LOL  BTW, where's all he Sharia law you were going on about? Uh huh.