Most women in Hollywood deserve what they got

Today we're seeing one after another example that clearly outs Hollywood for being a place where sex was frequently the currency demanded from aspiring women who wanted to work in that industry.  Many actresses are speaking out as thought they are shocked, when in fact most used the "Casting Couch" to get in, and continued to take advantage of their sexual attractiveness for their entire careers.

 

I'm not saying the men who took advantage of them are not guilty, but women who keep going back long after the know what the game is, do deserve what they got because they knew they were trading sex for career advancement and decided it was worth it.  It wasn't just women, men took advantage of men and even a few women did that to the men. 

 

Hollywood is a sleazy place and no one who works in that industry didn't know exactly what was going on, and just looked the other way.  No actress met Harvey Weinstein for dinner and then went back to his hotel without knowing that wasn't likely to end well, unless sex and the resulting advancement were what they hoped for in the first place.

 

We've evolved since the days when we only went after prostitutes, today we also go after the Johns.  So I ask, perhaps we should think about the culpability of the women and men who chose a career that required they use their own bodies as currency to get ahead?

Comments

Bill Kamps Added Nov 2, 2017 - 9:51am
Riley, exactly right.  When two consenting adults have sex, and there is a quid pro quo, why is it wrong? 
 
I think there are more hypocrites than victims in this story.
Michael Cikraji Added Nov 2, 2017 - 10:02am
I think it's unfair to say Hollywood is a sleazy place. What we're really talking about is the entertainment industry in general, not Hollywood specifically. There are plenty of sleazy places in cities like Miami, Las Vegas, New York City, etc. 
Problem is, the entertainment industry often operates in that "gray area" between wholesome family entertainment and outright porn..... as an example, if you see someone's job description listed just as "dancer" what comes immediately to mind?
Did you know that Sesame Street regularly employs professional dancers? Now aren't you the one that now feels sleazy?
Riley Brown Added Nov 2, 2017 - 10:06am
Bill, I don't want people to forget that even if Hollywood is and has been totally corrupt in that way for over a generation, it's wrong and a sleazy way to do business. 
 
I am sure most women who tried to get in that industry knew about the game before they went there, but it still doesn't make it right or make up for the fact that many were innocent the first time and didn't deserve what they got.
Bill Kamps Added Nov 2, 2017 - 10:07am
MC, true enough.  However the word Hollywood could just be short  hand for the movie business.
 
The actors are all independent contractors.  Its like not Harvey was the supervisor of these women at Bank of America, and they had to have sex  with him in order to keep their jobs.  It appears that everyone knew what Harvey was about, and they all played the game hoping  they would get ahead.
The Burghal Hidage Added Nov 2, 2017 - 10:13am
Wow! You really step in it with that title! But in principle you are entirely correct Riley.  Everyone has it within their power to say no.
 
Riley Brown Added Nov 2, 2017 - 10:22am
Bill, yes I was focusing on the movie business, but I've also seen the same principals working in the modeling business too.
 
I don't know any women who have worked as models who havn't had to endure abusive sexual practices and accept it as the price they have to pay to work in that industry.
Bill Kamps Added Nov 2, 2017 - 10:23am
Riley, I think right  and wrong here is kind of a grey area.  Yes  there are real victims, and those who thought they could deal with the situation and were taken advantage of.  But there were also those who willingly did  what Harvey wanted because that was a short cut to success. People looked the other way, because it was good for business. 
 
His company made people millions, and who are we to say when it was wrong or right for those actors to have sex with Harvey for that chance to make millions.
 
Its a case by case  situation, instead we see a media  lynch mob, painting Harvey as an evil predator, and everyone is a "me too" victim.
 
By  the way this has been going on for more than a generation, try a hundred years at least, and before there were movies, there was the  theater.
Michael Cikraji Added Nov 2, 2017 - 10:33am
Hey Riley,
You do know when you speak of models, that many people blame the abuse on gay designers don't you? Supposedly gay male designers only choose models who look anorexic because they want them to look more boyish. 
Not saying that's really the case, just a view that some people have...
George N Romey Added Nov 2, 2017 - 10:34am
Yes its a grey area but some of the women (and men) were willing to offer "themselves" to advance their acting careers.  It happens far more than most people think.  Supposedly straight men have at times "played gay for pay" for such purposes.
Riley Brown Added Nov 2, 2017 - 10:38am
Burghal, yes, my titles are not designed to be forum content summaries as much as they are shocking statements designed to get readers to take the bait and open my forum to read the content.
 
If Hollywood wasn't overrun with cute sexy bodies and a huge portion of them willing to sell their bodies to get ahead, perhaps sex wouldn't have become the currency of the day.
 
Harvey and others like him may not have started out that way but if day after day women beautiful women threw himself at him, that may have inspired him one baby step at a time, to become what he is today.
 
First the more sexually aggressive applicants intentionally seduce them hoping it will help them get a job and eventually they become so accustomed to open sexual advances that they begin to think it's ok for them to be just as bold in return, even with women who aren't pushing their assets at them.
 
It's a sleazy industry, there is no other way to put it.  If your parents aren't already big in the industry or you don't have some other powerful influencing allies, the is no other way to get in than to submit to whatever demands are placed on you.
 
This is not the only place where that's true, look at all the women who chase professional athletes.  The girls who get to meet them after the game aren't selected for their religious values or brains.  Any girl that stands in that crowd and begs for a personal experience knows that if she's not willing to put out, she might as well just go home.
Bill Kamps Added Nov 2, 2017 - 10:48am
George, exactly right.  It is a grey area because we dont know what went on, who initiated things, when the sex was consenting, and when Harvey was taking advantage of people.  Im sure the whole gamut occurred from starlets throwing themselves at him, to him being way over the line. 
 
When millions of dollars are available, when sex unlocks that possibility, right and wrong become very difficult to sort out if you werent in the room.
 
What we do know is that many of the voices we are hearing are those of the hypocrites who now find it fashionable to bash  Harvey, despite being silent or complicit all these years.  We also know that Harvey is not unique, and that given his position in the industry his behavior is likely more typical than not.
Riley Brown Added Nov 2, 2017 - 10:49am
Michael, unhealthy thin, and to some extent tall, has been the "model" ideal for a long time even thought there has been a lot of push back from advocacy groups.
 
Fact is it's all about MONEY, and people buy what they are attracted to.  Savy advertisers and designers don't just do what they want to, they carefully study demographic and statistical data, and choose everything from the style to the race and yes even stature of their models to maximize their positive impact.
 
If I had a large clothing company and my advertising executive started directing his staff to use models that reduced our companies sales, I'd have a talk with them real fast.
 
If you want to be a jockey you need to be a lightweight, it's part of the job requirement.  If you want to be a model you need to be thin and willing to put up with a lot of unwanted sexual advances.   If you want to become a movie-star you need to be willing to use you body to get there.  Those are all generalities, not always true, but true often enough that no one in those industries can claim they didn't know about it.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Nov 2, 2017 - 11:10am
I don't give a darn about the women. I'm shocked about the pedophilia.
George N Romey Added Nov 2, 2017 - 11:14am
There are more people in power that are into pedophilia than the vast majority of Americans realize.  Many powerbrokers are sick and twisted psychopaths that get off on their ability to ruin lives, no surprise a good chunk of them are pedophiles.
Bill Kamps Added Nov 2, 2017 - 11:16am
George, exactly.  Look at the parents who took their kids for sleepovers at M Jackson's place.  Money does weird things to people, emphasis on the weird.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Nov 2, 2017 - 11:41am
Yeah, remember how sorry Streep was that Polanski was arrested. She led the cheers at some award show for him.
 
Then there is Whoopie "not rape, rape" Goldberg. I wrote an article about her on my blog. here
 
I didn't even mention how young she and her daughter became mothers and whether that was strategic.
 
Now the Kevin Spacey case. Spacey probably took Jeff Epstein's "lolita express". Rumors are older than his victims.
 
Leonardo diCaprio's manager was convicted of sexual misconduct to minors - when he was hawking child star diCaprio. My feeling is that diCaprio also used the casting couch.
 
There is the Corey Feldman thing.... It goes on and on and on.
Donna Added Nov 2, 2017 - 2:01pm
Riley,
I was 14, when i hit NYC and tried to become a model.
Long time ago now, not much has changed,from what i see or read.
I was young,and my Dad took me, so as soon as he realized it wasn't exactly as they stated on the phone, and that at 14 i would have to do whatever they asked of me, dad told them to go to hell. He said no daughter of his was for sale!
On this i agree with you, they knew, helped advance themselves, and at what cost to another? If the first had come forward, the second would have never happened.
Michael Cikraji Added Nov 2, 2017 - 2:09pm
Hey Riley,
You write:
unhealthy thin, and to some extent tall, has been the "model" ideal for a long time even thought there has been a lot of push back from advocacy groups.
 
Actually, it isn't that long of time, really. It all started with a model nicknamed "Twiggy", who is still alive and active in the industry. Prior to that, models were actually much larger and voluptuous. Ever see a photo of Marilyn Monroe? She was seen as gorgeous in her day, today designers would dub her a fat slob...
Edgeucation Newmedia Added Nov 2, 2017 - 2:33pm
I believe that nobody deserves to be made to have sex or perform a sexual act to get ahead. If that is what is required for advancement in any system or culture then the fault lies in the system or culture that requires it weather it is films, TV, politics, corporate culture or whatever. Further, being forced to have sex or perform a sexual act is often considered a crime. I know it happens a  lot on a global scale and extends into sex trafficking of adults and minors but just because it happens doesn't make it right. 
Dino Manalis Added Nov 2, 2017 - 2:47pm
Most seem to be satisfied with Hollywood, some aren't, that's normal, men and women should mutually respect each other.
Riley Brown Added Nov 2, 2017 - 3:18pm
Michael I'll concede that "a long time" is a relative term, but would use it again; most of the living people in this country are not old enough to be remember a time when models weren't "skinny".
 
You're letting your age show thought.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Nov 2, 2017 - 3:25pm
Riley: And most straight male would not see Monroe's beauty as an awkward absurdity of a gone past. I think even you see that clearer than Michael.
Riley Brown Added Nov 2, 2017 - 5:26pm
Benjamin my focus was a reply to his concern about thin models being so in rage.  I am young enough to look at the comfortably plump women in many much much older pictures and wonder how any man might have found them more attractive than a much more trim athletic looking woman, but I think that just shows my age.
Leroy Added Nov 2, 2017 - 9:39pm
It is disgusting that anyone would have to sell their soul to get an audition and a fair chance.  Having said that, who is the real victim?  If you own a studio, you have the ability to make or break an actress or actor.  I can imagine that many, many women use their feminine wiles to play on their vulnerabilities to get what they want.  Who is using whom?  I can imagine that after a while of having women throw themselves at you, you succumb after a while.  From their, it becomes easy to take advantage of it or even to expect it.
 
I don't think Trump was far off the mark.  If you are rich and powerful, you can do what you want with many women.  I think you learn after a while which ones are off limits. 
 
I've watched the career of a young musician.  He plays with others on occasion, but, for the most part, he is a one-man band.  He was balling a 60 something wife of one of the pillars of the community.  She was using him to get back at her husband for balling a younger woman (girl).  He may not have been eighteen at the time.  Then he went to live with a well-respected member of the school system (Director of Special Needs), also in her 60s.  He's not an especially good looking.  Women are just attracted to band members.  Women of all ages throw themselves at him.  I was set up on a blind date with a woman who was a groupie, following bands around and balling members of the band.  She bragged about banging Mick Jagger.  I wasn't impressed.  I thought she was depraved.
 
Yes, it is part of the nature of man, but it is also part of the nature of women.  Weinstein is a slimeball and deserves what happens to him, but he is not 100% culpable.
Michael B. Added Nov 2, 2017 - 10:23pm
Nothing's new under the Sun, and the Casting Couch always has been, and will always be alive and well. There will never, ever be a shortage of men and women who will prostitute themselves as the means to an end, with "end" being the operative word.
 
All of these people suddenly sounding off about it only adds to the hypocrisy, but that is pretty self-evident.
 
During the filming of Gone With the Wind, the original director was George Cukor, but he was replaced by Victor Fleming because lead actor Clark Gable felt uncomfortable around Cukor, having allowed Cukor to "service" him earlier in his career.
Fred Friedman Added Nov 2, 2017 - 11:11pm
Riley ask yourself a simple question. Would you be upset if your sister or mother were sexually assaulted at work? This happens in nearly all segments of society-politics, fashion etc. The fact of the matter is that many men are pigs and have no respect for the moral autonomy of women, or, in some cases, men. No one should have to tremble in fear that their dignity will be violated because they happen to be physically attractive. No women ask to be assaulted and people like Weinstein are scumbags who need to be put in prison for a long time. It's long past time that society started holding people who sexually assault anyone accountable for their behavior. Publish their names, bar them from employment, try them and, if found guilty, sentence them to prison and allow monetary civil penalties to be disbursed if the victims sue for civil damages. Enough is enough.
wsucram15 Added Nov 3, 2017 - 7:28am
Wow..you really look at things in black and white. I cant justify everything in life...but in some instances I can.  How about Gwyneth Paltrow, who at the time was going out with Brad Pitt?  Do you know what happened?
Not everyone was abused by this man...HOWEVER, women are abused EVERY SINGLE DAY..by their bosses.  I listened to testimony in a special session of the Maryland General Assembly a couple of years back, about a single mother of two kids.  She was not only sexually abused, but smacked and locked in a closet. 
Now she tried to find another job, but the boss prevented it, by giving her a bad reference and at some point, she just walked out.  But she had two children to support and had no self-esteem.  Now predators like control and are keenly aware of the weak.
Just like Weinstein..actresses are notorious for insecurity as are actors.
Hence that situation..your lack of empathy for others in your articles is alarming.   I dont mean you have to agree with everything that is done, but feeling bad for another's misfortune is sometimes "just the human thing to do."
wsucram15 Added Nov 3, 2017 - 7:32am
I will say however, that the people that knew and allowed this to go on, are just as bad as Weinstein himself.  They allowed further victims to fall prey to this man.   It is unacceptable behavior, career or not.  There was a woman who tried to report it, and she was told it was "just harvey" and it would go nowhere.   Those people are just as guilty as he is.
William Stockton Added Nov 3, 2017 - 11:30am
If people are willfully agreeing to be manipulated, are they really being manipulated?
Every one of those actresses could have merely walked away from a career that would have compromised their sanctity and sensibilities . . . even up to the very moment of the impious bargain and salacious proposal.
 
William Stockton Added Nov 3, 2017 - 12:04pm
Jeanne, I would like to point out a recent example where Hollyweird calls out itself on this topic.
 
The movie La La Land.  This scene where the actresses playing would-be-actresses, dress up in their whore costumes (exact same thinly veiled dresses but different colors) and are going to a Hollywood party. 
In that scene, they are saying (actually singing) exactly their intentions to "land the role" and it being "the real audition" to make that chance encounter with the "right" man.
 
In regular business for regular Americans, women who dress like that at work are ridiculed.  Hollywood business IS different.
 
It's a joke.  A big, real, serious joke in Hollywood.  These women are being the biggest hypocrites right now.  These are third wave feminists, launched to fame on their backs, now going after powerful men in the same institutions that made feminism a "thing" and had turned mysandry into a cultural norm.
 
Nice to see feminism devouring their own kind now . . . as opposed to years prior when they were sucking a dude on a couch for a chance at fame.
 
Riley Brown Added Nov 3, 2017 - 9:14pm
Fred, I beg to disagree, most of the women who are chiming in about Harvey did beg to be taken advantage of by knowing what was likely to be demanded and willingly going along anyway, if not actively trying to use their sexuality to their advantage.  His behavior was one of the worst kept secrets in Hollywood.
 
You've asked me how I'd feel if my sister got taken advantage of?  For starters I'd ask her what the heck she was doing, pandering for work that she had to know is unlikely to be given to anyone who doesn't put out. 
 
It's not right that if you frequent bad places at night you are likely to get mugged, but its no secret either and if you choose to ignore the risks, or perhaps even enjoy taking them, don't come running to me for sympathy after you get mugged.  It's not like you had no idea that might happen or even took what I'd call reasonable steps to avoid it.
 
I have told friends what to expect when they told me they wanted to peruse jobs as models, and in acting, some listened and some went shopping for more revealing interview attire.
 
 
Riley Brown Added Nov 3, 2017 - 9:17pm
Wsucram, I have news for you, men get abused just as often at work, but since "Real Men" don't wine about it, it's pretty much swept under the rug.  They are as invisible as the men who get beat by their wives, they prefer to be invisible.
Riley Brown Added Nov 3, 2017 - 9:20pm
William, I agree, the vast majority of the women in Hollywood may not want to be abused, but their hardly beyond using their "charm" and bodies to help them rise to the top of the interview pool. 
 
Women who don't make it clear they put out might as well not bother to apply.
John Minehan Added Nov 4, 2017 - 10:00am
Nothing new, here.
 
Vincent Price said of the Ten Commandments (1956), “The Ten Commandments went on filming FOREVER. It went on so long that near the the end, two actresses asked, ‘Who do you have to fuck to get off this picture?
John Minehan Added Nov 4, 2017 - 10:01am
Sorry, not sure you can use that word (although Mr. Price did first.
Riley Brown Added Nov 4, 2017 - 11:11am
John, in my forum you can use whatever language you think is appropriate.   This is an adult topic which is not suitable for children and as you pointed out, that is what was said.  Of course you could go with variation like f**k in an attempt to pander to more sensitive eyes, but what good would that really do, EVERYONE even children know what the word is.
 
It's not like you were swearing at forum participants you disagreed with, I think that's worse and it often done and allowed.
Riley Brown Added Nov 4, 2017 - 11:22am
There is another whole forum topic we could do about whether or not Prostitution is moral and should be legal, and I believe many of the same principals apply to the type of women who throw themselves at the movie industry and very willingly include access to their bodies.
 
Women who don't get the jobs because they don't want to put out have good reasons to resent the entire industry for denying them the right to pursue that type of career just because they are unwilling to prostitute themselves to succeed.
 
At the same time women who do put out and get them, lose the moral right to scream about the fact that they owe their success to a willingness to prostitute themselves for those jobs.
 
The women who Harvey shocked by dropping his pants and telling them sex was the currency, and walked out the door and looked for another career, are the only ones who aren't hypocrites. 
 
Many prostitutes argue that consenting sex between two adults is moral even if one is being paid for servicing the other and also argue that the public has no right to deny them a way to make a living.  Most female movie stars would probably say the same thing if you asked why they didn't walk away.
John Minehan Added Nov 4, 2017 - 11:23am
The bad part of human nature is a natural desire to exploit others. 
 
The good part of human nature is we can make deals and trade what we have and don't need for what we need and don't have. 
 
The problem with this issue is that both elements are present. 
mark henry smith Added Nov 4, 2017 - 12:54pm
Thanks Riley. The good part of human nature is that we can learn to behave differently if punishments and inducements push us. There is a terrible male myth that women really like to be raped, because often women who are initially raped, or coerced, keep coming back. Why is that? Maybe the women think all men are beasts so if that's all you're gonna get, why not get some goodies with it?
 
I've been thinking a lot about women's sexual pleasure from the perspective of a straight male and I have to ask about the connection between pain and pleasure in female orgasm, and if pain is part of the process, maybe the emotional and psychological pain of being "forced" into sexual activity makes the experience more satisfying in some way I can't explain in a short burst.
 
I'm not saying that forcing women into sexual activity is good or desirable at all, but that it appears to be a large segment of our reality because we are so uncomfortable about sex, talking about it like adults, or behaving like responsible adults.
 
Hollywood is a big part of America's emotional immaturity regarding sex, having painted a portrait of a good life being an asexual activity for decades and decades for the most part, with sex an activity implied, actively sexual people being sluts, creeps or predators, not good people, while the people running the business, making these value judgments, were carrying on like they were living in Caligula's reign.
 
When I was growing up watching movies, sex was always going on behind closed doors with one foot on the floor. And the consequences of being sexual were severe. These attitudes still dominate despite a more libertine, modern, sexual model being sold. That's the real reality, sex is just another commodity with hidden consequences.
Riley Brown Added Nov 4, 2017 - 5:25pm
Mark Smith, I've never heard any women say they would really like to be raped, or heard a man seriously suggest that might be true, but if you say you know people like that I'll take your word for it.
 
I do know lots of women and a few men who really get turned on by very sexual aggressive partners, they like a partner that acts like they want them so much that they practically act like an animal in bed. 
 
I've even had fun with partners who were aggressive when I wanted them to be, and must admit that from the viewpoint of a third party observer, those acts taken out of context would appear to be rape.  They certainly aren't, we were just having fun, and so do a lot of other people the same way behind closed doors. 
 
If you watch many old movies you are likely to notice that Real Men were expected to be the aggressor not that long ago.  I think it's less today, but lots of women would still rather have a man whose aggressive in bed than one who begs for permission each time.
Bill Caciene Added Nov 5, 2017 - 5:34pm
In some cases, perhaps they decided to trade sex for an acting career and got the part.  Those women got what they wanted, not what they deserved.  In other cases, perhaps they refused Weinstein’s advancements, said “no” and then found themselves blacklisted.  Did those women deserve what they got?  Did the women that honestly had no idea what was going to happen to them, deserve what they got? I don't think any woman deserved what they got.  
John Minehan Added Nov 5, 2017 - 6:03pm
Little Bill Daggett: I don't deserve this... to die like this. I was building a house.
Will Munny: Deserve's got nothin' to do with it
 
The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.
Will Munny: We all got it coming, kid.
 The Unforgiven (1992)
Riley Brown Added Nov 5, 2017 - 7:49pm
Bill, in a perfect world sex wouldn't sell anything, but we know it doesn't work that way.  That even applies to job applicants who dress up for interviews when their attire really has nothing to do with the job.  Have you ever dressed up for an interview hoping your appearance would help you get the job?  I know I have and that might be why I got the job.
 
Women who offer their bodies as part of the deal, are just taking the same idea to an extreme, and I don't blame interviewers who have had loads of women overtly throw themselves in with the deal, for starting to believe they deserve it.
 
Blacklisted is a funny word to use, I tend to think the women who didn't accommodate Harvey's advances never stood a chance in that industry.  Harvey was hardly unique, I think he was the norm.
 
If I couldn't stand porn, I wouldn't apply for a secretarial position with a company that made porn movies.  Similarly I believe women very quickly found out what Hollywood demanded and the only ones in that industry, kept going despite that requirement.  The ones that ran away, weren't' owed a chance to be a star, they just aren't compatible with industry requirements.
Flying Junior Added Nov 6, 2017 - 1:03am
You are clearly a hardcore misogynist.  This article alone is offensive enough, but coming in on the heels of your thinly disguised defense of spousal rape, it only becomes all that much more clear.
 
Bruce Hornsby sang a song about people that accepted wrongdoing, injustice and discrimination as something that would always be with us.  "That's just the way it is, some things will never change."
 
But the substance was, "Oh, but don't you believe them."
 
You, sir, take this one more step in the wrong direction.  You not only accept violence against women.  You have the misguided courage to celebrate violence against women.  That's what rape is, little boy.  It's violence.  It has nothing to do with sex.  Do you really believe that we, as a society, need to accept antiquated mores of sexual harassment and coercion?
 
Tell that to Gloria Allred.  She could set the record straight.  Even though you are a very young man, your way is rooted in the evils of the deep past.  Such as you will not survive in a world which values women and respects their right to choose their own lovers.  Hopefully your main squeeze never reads these disgusting screeds.
 
It was a huge surprise to see you post about condoning rape when the first post I ever read by you was about gender definition.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Nov 6, 2017 - 3:03am
@ Riley. "I'm not saying the men who took advantage of them are not guilty, but women who keep going back long after the know what the game is, do deserve what they got because they knew they were trading sex for career advancement and decided it was worth it.  It wasn't just women, men took advantage of men and even a few women did that to the men. "
 
Yes they did know the way to the top was on their backs. The real victims are the young actresses that the older actresses, with miles of thread-ware, let the molesters take advantage of, knowing they could have said something because they felt something. Perhaps the sources of the good feelings would be eliminated, denying those older actresses the opportunity to have repeated back actions.
 
Robert Burk Added Nov 6, 2017 - 5:19am
I worked at one place for 8 years, first year or so as regular employee, the last 6 as a supervisor. I instantly gained sex appeal after the promotion. We all see this everywhere. Woman find wealth and power attractive and men take advantage of it.
 
Robert Burk Added Nov 6, 2017 - 5:20am
Not me by the way ..As a 16 year old delivery boy I was met by naked woman at the door and asked to come back after work by more than one lonly housewife.
 
mark henry smith Added Nov 6, 2017 - 1:11pm
Do any of us really get what we deserve? Who decides? Riley, have you read Zorba the Greek?
 
One problem in our society is that we do not have mindful discussions about sex. We have lectures about what sex is, what it does, how to do it better, but we don't discuss where sex fits in a good life, not realistically.
 
Do any of you know where it fits? It fits where it doesn't get in the way of more important activities, like all things. Sex is not the end all. I know it's up there, but if you're living for sex I feel sorry for you because sex is so limiting. You can't do it all day every day and have it be your main activity and be happy, I wouldn't think, since I've never tried that lifestyle.
 
Sex is like pot. It makes some people feel really good. It makes some people feel really bad. Some people use it well and some people use it badly, some people abstain. And just like pot, and guns, it's not the sex that kills people. It's the getting, the possessing, the additives, the consequences of unfettered indulging that kills people, or at least makes them boring when you hear the same story about the prostitute in Vegas for the umpteenth time.
 
I remember a poster here named Ryan, who posed as a religious fundamentalist, I have no idea what he really was, who said sex should only happen in marriage and that should be the law. What really shocked me was how appealing that idea is to some people.
 
Oh, and new studies show that rape is also about sex, because when they gave rapists access to prostitutes, most of them stopped. I think they should have a health plan for molesters and predators that provides them with government funded prostitutes. Or if they prefer, pot.  
Bill Kamps Added Nov 6, 2017 - 2:04pm
Mark, I think the point many of us are making, is that not nearly all the women on the casting couch were raped, many were there willingly.
Riley Brown Added Nov 6, 2017 - 11:22pm
Hey F Junior, I hate to burst your bubble but women aren't the only ones in Hollywood who sold their bodies to improve their careers, men did it too.  Do you even know anyone who has tried to become part of the Hollywood scene and succeed even a little?  I didn't think so.
 
Have you even listened to what Harvey's "women" said? All of them described similar situations where they knew they were putting themselves in sleazy positions, and did it anyway and stayed in that career despite how sleazy they already knew it was.
 
I might have much more sympathy for your cause if you championed the women who said no and walked away but you are championing the ones who prostituted their bodies and acting like they didn't deserve what they got.
 
Do you also champion women whose only avenue to self support is "acting" in the porn industry?
Dr. Rupert Green Added Nov 7, 2017 - 5:43pm
@ Mark. 'Oh, and new studies show that rape is also about sex, because when they gave rapists access to prostitutes, most of them stopped. I think they should have a health plan for molesters and predators that provides them with government funded prostitutes. Or if they prefer, pot.  "
 
That is a riot and typical of Democrats--giving something for nothing. The Republican approach would have them giving back to society. Why not have them made into castratas to sing for their supper?
 
"A totally sacrilegious castration was the one practiced in Europe between the sixteenth and eighteenth centuries and beyond: the boys with a good voice were sometimes castrated in order to be able to sing at church due to the ban on the Roman Catholic Church to use female singers and early opera works often contained roles written specifically for adult castrates"
Mike Haluska Added Nov 8, 2017 - 2:54pm
Why aren't really good looking men ever accused of "sexual harassment"???
wsucram15 Added Nov 9, 2017 - 12:34pm
They are Mike.  What about BEN AFFLECK, his wife left him remember? He actually apologized for his behavior.
Lockhart Steel..he looks like a young paul McCartney, Roy Price- not my type but cute, Chris savino..not bad looking, john Besh- great eyes and an awesome chef, Andy Sigapore, Mark Halperin- again not my type but not disgusting and unable to pick up women. 
YOU as usual have to look before you speak...ALSO this is about power over women and control, not sex.
Riley Brown Added Nov 9, 2017 - 9:14pm
Wsucram, when one partner wakes up horny and wants sex, all it's about is SEX. 
 
I've never heard someone say otherwise, but I have heard many complain that they want it to be about Love, and when they get rolled over for sex, they don't feel loved.
Gone Away Added Nov 10, 2017 - 5:04am
Wow Riley: you have obviously never been on the receiving end of sexual abuse!
 
Just say 'no' eh? We should know what we are walking into eh? ( Woman, Man or Child)! We know the score?
 
I don't believe that I am seeing such negative, mysoginistic, uninformed twaddle in this 'enlightened' world that we live in.
 
We are obviously not living in an enlightened world. How sad.
Riley Brown Added Nov 10, 2017 - 9:36pm
Colettebytes, please be much more specific, which of my statements are you referring to? 
 
Do you think I'm being unfair with Wsucram when I said, "when one partner wakes up horny and wants sex, all it's about is SEX."  She says it's about power and control.
 
Maybe that's why women like you often call it rape, when the women who didn't want to have the sex but did anyway, don't consider it rape, when they are asked. 
 
Do you realize that if the situation I described is Rape, half the men in the US should be in prison, but if you are as bitter as you sound that might just be fine with you.
Gone Away Added Nov 11, 2017 - 9:42am
I have plenty of consensual sex thank you!
 
I object to being slammed up against a wall and forced into sex, just because the man of the moment wants to turn it into something violent, controlling and a power play that makes me a submissive victim.
 
Your statements are vile misrepresentations of what should be a caring consensual act between consenting adults.
 
PaganTeaPartier Added Nov 11, 2017 - 9:48am
I realize that this is in response to a question way up near the top of the comments, but the answer is relevant, if a bit delayed.
 
Anorexic, stick figure models, are favored because the model is really only supposed to be a walking hanger for the clothes.
 
While commercial magazine and catalog photography might be more focused on making sales, the modeling industry itself is focused on the big name, runway shows, where the last thing that world famous fashion artists want, is for the model's bust line to distract from their designs.
Gone Away Added Nov 11, 2017 - 9:54am
Riley, I actually take issue with most of your statements. I won't be back to comment on this again. I have one thing to say to someone who just wants sex and no intimacy or caring... Go find a prostitute and pay for the privilege to be an uncaring @#*%!
PaganTeaPartier Added Nov 11, 2017 - 10:16am
If all that he is to you is, "the man of the moment," to begin with; then your "caring consensual act between consenting adults," is a lot more one sided than you think it is.
mark henry smith Added Nov 11, 2017 - 10:47am
Women you can't live with 'em and you can't have heterosexual sex without 'em. Sex is so simple and so complicated like all things where consent can be implied and inferred. Rape has been a part of human behavior since humans became aware of individual identity.  It used to be clear. It was a physical act. The definition has been broadened to include coercion and that means that so much of what sex was is now verboten unless the object of your affection is into it, which you can only find out by trying.
Is it any wonder that so many people feel trapped in a sexual maze of dead ends?
Riley Brown Added Nov 12, 2017 - 7:59pm
Colettebytes, you have mixed what I consider to be several different issues and called them all Rape; I disagree.
 
The first you describe well when you say you don't want to be slammed up against a wall and forced into sex and I'd like to differentiate between that and the other two other extremes.  One where a partner says I'd rather sleep and gets taken advantage anyway and the other extreme where jogger is mugged and beaten into submission by what I call a real Rapist. 
 
I get it, you think those are all RAPE and anyone who does that needs to spend 20 to life in prison.  We'll just have to disagree, and by the way most women whose partners lustfully ravage their bodies at night, even when they would rather sleep, also don't call it RAPE.
 
If partners don't agree and one can't tolerate the sex drive of the other they need to break up, not charge the aggressive partner with Rape and get them locked up for life.  It's not RAPE, it's sexual incompatibility.
 
 
PaganTeaPartier Added Nov 12, 2017 - 10:51pm
Riley
 
Much as with your last article, you are talking to people who do not believe that men have valid feelings to begin with.
 
They do not think that there is anything wrong with taking advantage of the benefits of having a man in their lives, and then sexually starving him. Since they don't believe that he has any valid feelings in the first place, its inconceivable that treating him that way could actually be causing real harm.
 
That blindness was what I was trying to point out. Its not possible to have a deep and meaningful act of mutual caring and respect, when you consider someone so disposable that they are nothing more to you than, "The man of the moment," because if that is the case you don't actually care about or respect him in the first place.
 
To people who hold all men in such contempt, the idea that there might actually be legitimate mitigating factors, is a possibility that they cannot wrap their minds around.
 
To them, a woman who has not had sex with her husband in five years, and then upon discovering that he had been cheating on her, flies into a rage and murders him, is deserving of compassion, understanding, and should receive a lesser charge.
 
But if that same man had remained faithful, and one day lost it and took her by force. They don't believe that the prospect of continuing to live with the situation as it was, or losing his house, his retirement, and his kids in a divorce, could actually have put him under real psychological and emotional strain. Therefore his mental state shouldn't be considered when determining what charge he should face.
Gone Away Added Nov 13, 2017 - 4:14am
Pagan Tea... You are way off base! 'Man of the Moment' was my loose term because I would never implicate my husband in something so nasty as what is being written here. My particular 'Man of the Moment' was a charlatan who deceived me (a vulnerable, shy Eighteen-year old), hurt me, robbed me and left me destitute in a strange town. To compare your drivel to real abuse is an insult to any intelligent people here. You sir, have no idea how much your words hurt real victims. I would not utter your name in my husband's presence, because you are not worthy enough.
Gone Away Added Nov 13, 2017 - 4:20am
And just for the record...I am done here at Writer Beat.
 

Autumn: Take note. You are encouraging the dark and nasty side of life to congregate here.
Reading through these blogs and worse, the comments, I have no desire to be here any longer.
You may like to feed off the energy of all these negative, decisive comments (indeed you seem to encourage them), but people like me have a choice.
Riley Brown Added Nov 17, 2017 - 8:12pm
Pagan I know there are many women who use sex to sucker men in and then practically demand they take care of them even if they no longer want to put out, but there are equal numbers of men who like to sucker women in, make them dependent and then subject them to spousal abuse that no one should have to endure.
 
When a partner finds out they are no longer compatible they should leave, but unfortunately our legal system often makes that real hard to do, especially economically.  Life might have been better before Marriage and all the obligations that go along with it was invented.
PaganTeaPartier Added Nov 18, 2017 - 5:49am
Yes, but as you have been experiencing, its extremely difficult to have a rational conversation with someone who believes that only one of the two situations that you mentioned, is actually wrong.
 
I don't think that I would expect things to have been easier before Marriage existed. Its been with us since before recorded history, since before civilization itself; it might have been backed up by the offended family of the discarded woman rather than by laws, but one way or another its been with us indefinitely. And all aspects of life were a lot more harsh in those days.
 
But while I do think that the court system should be a lot more fair in the consideration of marriage dissolutions, a lot of times it could be unnecessary simply by mutually facing up to the reality of those compatibility issues you speak of.
 
Marriage, with kids, and family life, there is never any shortage of pervasive problems that have to be continuously managed. Significant sexual divergences between partners can in fact be effectively managed, but not if one doesn't believe that it actually is a real problem.