The unholy alliance of climate change & income inequality

The unholy alliance of climate change & income inequality
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The other day I read an article which referenced the NAACP’s climate justice program.  I thought to myself, why would an institution, whose purpose is to advance colored people, care about climate change?  Then I asked, what’s climate justice?  Then it dawned on me, the reason progressives care so much about climate change is because it’s a back-door way to advance their main concern. 

 

Put yourself in the shoes of the NAACP.  They want to make life better for blacks and the best way to achieve that, in their mind, is to tax rich white people.  Taxing the rich for the purpose of helping the poor will undoubtedly bring out the usual conservative talking points about how government should allow the free market to decide how income is distributed or the usual accusations of socialism.  But taxing the rich under the guise that it’s good for the climate is a creative way to skin the cat. 

 

Sure enough, in researching the program I found this on the NAACP website “Climate Change is about Katrina, Rita, and Ike devastating communities in Mississippi, Louisiana, Florida, and Texas, Climate Change is about our sisters and brothers in the Bahamas who will be losing their homes to rising sea levels in the coming few years. Climate Change is about people in Detroit, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and elsewhere who have died and are dying of exposure to toxins from coal fired power plants.”

 

Summarized, the rich are exploiting the earth while the poor are being made to suffer the effects of climate change.  Obviously it’s not a stretch to go from this belief to the belief that the rich should be made to pay reparations for their actions.  Accordingly, “climate change” is just another way to get access to the rich’s pocket-book. 

 

I forget, what degree did that scientist have that made that movie about inconvenient truths and climate change?

Comments

Kerem Oner Added Nov 15, 2017 - 12:51pm
If there is the word 'justice' in the name of any group, you can bet on it that it is a scam. 
Neil Lock Added Nov 15, 2017 - 12:56pm
It goes further than that, Phil. The whole pack of "climate change" lies and scares is only one part of the green agenda that is being driven, primarily, by the United Nations. And it's not just the rich whose pockets are being picked. It's all of us.
 
Here's an article I wrote a few months ago about the 1987 UN report that started all this crap.
 
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/04/20/our-common-future-revisited-how-did-the-roadmap-for-the-green-juggernaut-fare-over-30-years/
 
Kerem Oner Added Nov 15, 2017 - 1:10pm
Neil, none of the alarmist nonsense is anything but enviro-Marxism.  Marxists took over every movement including environment, feminism, and every other so-called rights groups. Climate change alarmism is nothing short of another mechanism to redistribute wealth globally and impoverishing people everywhere so that they end of depending on the government as much as possible.  Socialism begets more socialism.
 
Richard Plank Added Nov 15, 2017 - 2:09pm
People use all sorts of excuses to get to their agenda, whether it makes any sense or not.  It is often termed opportunistic behavior with guile and was developed by the 2009 Nobel prize winner in Economics back in 1978-80. When examining what people write over time you do find changes which indicate movement.  Such is the face of sustainability which is probably 25-50 years from having the human race make the turn.  There is all kinds of crap written from all points of view that fail the test of their assumptions. 
Critical thinking starts with examining assumptions.  Climate change is only one example and  the science while imperfect is overwhelming, and while we can't possibly measure exact human impact on it; it is clearly there.
It seems the assumptions of both capitalism and socialism are both dead, markets most of the time work poorly and sometimes not at all, at least in the short run; as one sage said in the long run we are all dead so any work in  that area is ex-post facto.  So in the short run we meddle with them and usually screw them up even more.
In order for socialism to work we need to give frontal lobotomies to at least the majority of the population and I am not aware such a procedure exists.  Exactly what direction the human race goes in I can't say nor can I predict the outcome, but what I do believe is if we keep believing the current rubbish and acting as we do we will go extinct.  I am part of a growing number of people on that front.  While science, as we can practice it, can not always give us a precise answer we want it can direct us.
 
And as far as alarmist goes I do agree that is probably not the right strategy.  The work done in psychology and marketing suggests that fear appeals and other similar attempts at influence have limited effect.  However, there are assumptions, as well, involved there.
 
Joanne Corey Added Nov 15, 2017 - 2:10pm
There are hundreds of peer-reviewed studies by climate scientists that show that the rapid rise in global temperature in the industrial area is due to human activity, chiefly through the extraction and burning of fossil fuels, which adds carbon to a system that was previously a natural system in balance. Climate change is not a scam. Many of us have already suffered at least one significant global warming related calamity; if you have not yet had that experience, you should count yourself lucky.
 
It is also a fact that poorer populations and countries bear a big burden from climate change, though they were seldom the ones who put a lot of carbon into the atmosphere. That is why there is a climate justice movement. Many of us, either through religious or social ethics, believe that those who have caused harm should amend the harm; we also believe that we are called to love our neighbor as ourselves. This is not Marxism or communism. For me, it is part of my Catholic faith. One of the best documents I know that addresses climate change and justice issues is Pope Francis's encyclical Laudato Si' which he wrote for all of humanity, not just Catholics.
Kerem Oner Added Nov 15, 2017 - 2:24pm
Richard Plank, huh?.....Just because we have a infinitesimally small impact in contributing to the 0.0037% of atmospheric gasses somehow makes the AGW hypothesis correct?  Only people who do not comprehend basic chemistry, physics, and are void of any geological knowledge can make such idiotic claims as do alarmists.  I suggest people learn some basic natural sciences and start thinking for themselves before believing crap.
 
On another point, I take exception to your characterization of Keynes as a sage.  Nothing could be further from truth than that claim.  The man was a despicable Fabian socialist whose theories proved to be miserable failures as he himself admitted to Henry Clay at Bank of England, merely a week before his death.
Phil Greenough Added Nov 15, 2017 - 2:49pm
Kerem;
I wouldn’t call it a scam.  Liberals are deeply concerned about income inequality and will use any means necessary to do something about it.    
 
Neil;
I don’t blame the United Nations for the behavior of liberals in America. 
 
Richard;
I’m sorry but I don’t follow what you just wrote.  I think you saw the phrase “climate change” in my title and offered the same thing you write to anyone that challenges the belief that the climate is getting warmer and humans are to blame.  This article approached the discussion from a totally different angle.   You’d know that if you had read it, so I’ll give you the Cliff Note version: Because liberals are concerned with taxing the rich, they use climate change as the means to that end. 
 
Joanne;
There has not been a rapid rise in global temperatures in the Industrial Era.  Many peer reviews studies have proved this.  As for the peer reviews studies that proved otherwise, are you including the ones that falsified the data?
 
There has been evidence of extreme weather events recently and historically.  There is no evidence these storms have been worse over time.  It wasn’t until 1973, well after the industrial period, that we even developed the hurricane classification system we use today.
 
Assuming you’re right and humans are to blame, I’m glad you concede that harming the rich in the name of climate change is about the justice movement.  On this point we 100% agree. As a good Christian, I know it’s wrong to take what’s not mine. 
Kerem Oner Added Nov 15, 2017 - 3:08pm
Joanne Corey, for science sake, I hope you are not a scientist or a teacher that teaches science.
 
Here are some facts for you that you either do not know or simply ignore:
 
- I would not tout peer review as if it were something other than an echo chamber for like-minded thought.  If you were a scientist (one with integrity that is), you would know that.  I suggest you read up on the joke that the process has become:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1420798/
https://www.nature.com/news/peer-review-troubled-from-the-start-1.19763
 
- As to what is causing the 'rapid increase in CO2 levels', it is all conjecture as there is no way of definitively determining our contribution.  This is especially true since we know for a fact that CO2 reacts to temperature, not vice versa.  I suggest you familiarize yourself with Vostok data.
 
- CO2 and temperature levels are both at geological lows.  In the earlier parts of the Paleozoic era, when life was really thriving, CO2 levels were nearly 20x higher and temps were also higher by about 6-8 degrees Celsius.
 
-  As to CO2's so called warming effect as the GHG that it is falsely characterized, in reality it has more of a cooling effect than a warming one:
https://principia-scientific.org/the-four-known-scientific-ways-carbon-dioxide-cools-earth-s-climate/
As to warming, here are some real experts:
https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatescience/climatesciencenarratives/its-water-vapor-not-the-co2.html
 
- What effects have you suffered?  Hurricanes?  There are far fewer severe hurricanes than there were in the past.  Heat?  Many parts of the world are suffering from colder than usual weather as well.  Sea rise?  Sea is rising at an average of 2mm per year - far slower than after the little ice age. 
STOP ASCRIBING EVERYTHING TO CLIMATE!!
 
The world has been coming out of an ice age.  Expect nothing less than warming and accompanying CO2 spikes.  We are still far from levels that would threaten humans.  For god sake, CO2 is not even toxic to humans up to roughly 60,000 ppm  Oxygen is far more toxic at much lower concentrations! 
 
As to the rest of your rant about social justice, etc, you are a kook....and a socialist one at that!  Go educate yourself.
Kerem Oner Added Nov 15, 2017 - 3:48pm
The Disaffected Lib, what is not much to ask is you statist leftists to come back with substantive arguments.  You can pick on whose ever grammar you were picking on but at least deal with the science as well.  Respond to my post above if you are a worshipper at the cult of AGW.  You made zero substantive points above.
David Bennett Added Nov 15, 2017 - 4:01pm
Good article. Even if what they say is 'true' (which it isn't) those filthy rich folk will suffer some of the same along with those 'poor' folk. Thanks for putting ink to the truth. 
Bill H. Added Nov 15, 2017 - 4:02pm
 
Joanne, TDL - Don't waste your efforts here, as all you will get in return is being labeled as a "Commie, Leftist, Progressive, Socialist, Democrat, Snowflake, Alarmist. No matter what you show as evidence, they will forever stick with what the Big Oil "Scientists" have fed them via their search engine filter bubble algorithm.
Phil Greenough Added Nov 15, 2017 - 4:46pm
The Dissafected Lib;
Nobody forced my belief upon me, they’re of my own and because I believe them so strongly, I decided to write this article.  Seeing all you have, are insults and grammar lessons, kindly go bother someone else.   On second thought, I just re-read my article and found no incorrect usage of the word they’re, their or there.  It would appear you’re the one in need of a grammar lesson.
 
David;
The liberals have no intention of making the poor suffer.  Their intention is to take from the rich and give to the poor.    
 
Bill;
The last time a Big Oil Scientist tried to speak his mind you folks tried to seek legal action to silence him.  To our credit, we haven't tried to silence your "scientists."  
Mike Haluska Added Nov 15, 2017 - 5:08pm
Phil -
The "Climate Change Gang" has gone way beyond just silencing critics.  Obama's Attorney General wanted to round up Climate Change "DENIERS" (Bill H's 2nd favorite term, right after "Big Oil Puppet") and PROSECUTE THEM!!!
 
http://dailysignal.com/2016/03/10/attorney-general-lynch-looking-into-prosecuting-climate-change-deniers/
 
Yeah Bill H - that's real science for you!  Round up the usual suspects and throw them in jail until they all shut up for good. 
Neil Lock Added Nov 15, 2017 - 5:42pm
Mike H: You're right there. Science, when done properly, criticizes the message, not the messenger. Climate alarmists go the other way.
Bill H. Added Nov 15, 2017 - 5:46pm
"You Folks".........
That said it all!!
Lynn Johnson Added Nov 15, 2017 - 11:57pm
Good post.  Leftist organizations will always throw support to each other and try to intertwine their various causes.
 
The NAACP is in the business of pimping the poverty in which their power is invested.  They have a common interest in the redistribution of wealth which is the end-all be-all purpose of the climate change crowd (as Kerem Oner correctly asserts); thus, the symbiosis.
 
You do have to hand it to the climate change barkers.  They were smart enough to transition their marketing from "global warming" to "climate change" so that they could then spin ANY change in the weather was proof of their theories; storms, droughts cold winters, warm winters... as if these have never occurred before or as if they are worse today.
 
They also enlisted and built up a pagan movement to bolster their numbers and now even Pope Francis has joined them.  Who would ever have predicted the most worldly and Marxist of Popes would throw his lot in with the secular humanists (worshiping man) and pagans (worshiping nature)?  (Note… that was sarcasm… pretty well anybody could have seen that coming.)
 
The left says the "science" of climate change is "settled" and then treat as heretics anyone who questions that.  That is not how true science behaves and exposes climate change for what it truly is.  THAT is how ideologues and religions behave.
Phil Greenough Added Nov 16, 2017 - 6:33am
Mike;
The Left believes the type of speech that should be free is that which they agree with...see any college campus.
 
Bill;
On cue, when backed into a corner the Left resorts to personal insult.
 
Lynn;
The Pope is a European and like most Europeans, they view Americans as a bunch of greedy capitalists.  In other words, his thoughts were not “enlisted” they are from the heart.  It would appear even the Pope can be wrong.  For the record, I’m the one that first asserted the link between climate change and income inequality / wealth redistribution. 
Lynn Johnson Added Nov 16, 2017 - 8:17am
PG >> The Pope is a European...
 
I thought this Pope was from South America... Argentina to be exact.  They made a big deal out of it... part of the new diversity program or something.
 
The main point is that he is a leftist (if not a Marxist) wherever he acquired the affliction.  Not even the U.S. is immune to such delusion.  We had one be a major candidate in the Presidential primaries.
 
PG >> It would appear even the Pope can be wrong.
 
This one seems more wrong that the others; and on a more consistent basis.
 
PG >> For the record, I’m the one that first asserted the link between climate change and income inequality / wealth redistribution. 
 
Oh yeah… I’ve been hearing this bell rung for quite some time by other leftist groups jumping on the climate change bandwagon.
Kerem Oner Added Nov 16, 2017 - 8:20am
Bill H.
I am talking about scientific facts.  There are no separate facts for different points of view.  As usual, you make zero arguments.  Aren't you tired of being an empty-suit yet?  Try educating yourself and then get back to us.
Socratic Gadfly Added Nov 16, 2017 - 8:20am
Ken, if you find the word "freedom" in a group's name, you can bet it's a scam. #fify
Kerem Oner Added Nov 16, 2017 - 8:26am
Socratic Gadfly, no groups with "freedom" in their names are NOT trying to turn the U.S. in to a collectivist hellhole.  Your collectivist ilk are!  You call yourself an environmentalist.  Bring some facts to the table, will you?  Want to talk science or just trash talk? 
Dino Manalis Added Nov 16, 2017 - 9:33am
We should expand economic opportunities for everyone, while reduce pollution and waste to make a better healthier world!
Kerem Oner Added Nov 16, 2017 - 9:56am
Amen to that sentiment Dino, except environmental pollution and AGW are two distinctly different issues.
Phil Greenough Added Nov 16, 2017 - 10:57am
Lynn;
My apologies, I thought the current Pope was from Italy.  My comments are even more relevant, as the average Argentinian considers Americans to be a bunch of greedy, fossil fuel-burning capitalists even more so than the average Italian. 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Nov 16, 2017 - 11:45am
"Summarized, the rich are exploiting the earth while the poor are being made to suffer the effects of climate change."
 
Which has the potential of putting money into the pockets of the activists, politicos who support such nonsense, and maybe even the poor. 
 
We can also insert the Zero Sum Rule:
 
"Every student of political economy knows that Adam Smith dealt mercantilist economic ideas a profound intellectual defeat in The Wealth of Nations (1776). The mercantilist had viewed economic interaction as a zero-sum game — that is, the benefit of one party had to come at the expense of the other. Sound economic policy, therefore, involved encouraging a favorable balance of trade (an excess of exports over imports), the acquisition of colonies, and the construction of a powerful navy to secure and maintain access to far-flung market" This sounds good until you look at the economic history of China and Japan. Those examples are not anywhere near zero-sum. But the left still demands that any economic imbalance is due to the greedy upsetting the zero-sum balance where if you have something more than the average citizen then that is proof that you got it unfairly. China and Japan still try to run their economies like a Ma and Pop store. They sell but will only buy when absolutely necessary. Colonization is not much different from looting. The Romans perfected that with Pax Romana. I wrote a term paper at SUNY that attempted to show that 'free trade' fails to protect those nations who sell commodities and such with a lower intrinsic value than other nations [e.g. sell diamonds--not rice] and results in a general flow of wealth from the poor countries to the rich. I think we have seen that in the last 200 years.
 
Jmnho
Lynn Johnson Added Nov 16, 2017 - 12:11pm
Phil >>I thought the current Pope was from Italy.  My comments are even more relevant...
 
Agreed.  The issue isn't one of origination, but of indoctrination.  This Pope's religion is leftism... he dabbles in Catholicism, trying to migrate the latter to the former.
 
Phil Greenough Added Nov 16, 2017 - 12:16pm
Ryck;
I’m not sure if I follow.  Is it your assertion that taking the rich’s money for the benefit of the poor is smart economic policy?  How does the Zero Sum rule relate?
 
Lynn;
What the pope is doing is true with some many people.  They let politics interfere with their personal life and professional life.  If the Pope cared so much about Catholicism he would embrace those that believe in climate change as much as those that don’t believe in it. 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Nov 16, 2017 - 12:16pm


Joanne Corey Added Nov 15, 2017 - 2:10pm
 



"There are hundreds of peer-reviewed studies by climate scientists that show that the rapid rise in global temperature in the industrial area is due to human activity, chiefly through the extraction and burning of fossil fuels,.."
 
It is of interest to note that ALL the climate models indicated a rapid rise in global temperature and then the temperature went down, so the embarrassed 'scientistsclub' changed from Global Warming to Climate Change which meant that they could progress with their phony science whether the temperature went up, down and remained stable. 
 
Note also the sleazy efforts of Phil Jones and Mike Mann who tried to push away critical comments by others in their procession forming a cabal of high ideological proportions. 
 

Science has progressed to lofty heights since Aristotle mismanaged the thought processes necessary to mathematically describe and unravel the laws that govern our environment. We have impressive mathematical theories and models that give us predictions like what we were prepared to experience from the Limit to Growth published at MIT in the 70s. Here, using the best minds and the power of the computer the ‘Club of Rome’ was able to confidently advise us that we would run out of oil and natural gas by 1992 and other disasters. This should have been a warning. This was hatched from hokum and blow from the beginning.
 
Then Al Gore predicted [2009] that all the ice would melt at the North Pole and the oceans would rise 200 ft. This places Florida under 185 ft of ocean water so vacation elsewhere. 
 
Science today is the willing harlot of propaganda. 

opher goodwin Added Nov 16, 2017 - 12:19pm
Phil - Seems to me that the premise is spot on. The rich aren't going to suffer too much through climate change. It is the poor that are already suffering. They are the ones in the cheap housing that is subject to damage and flooding. It pays the rich to convince everyone it isn't happening.
Inequality is a massive stain on human society. The rich are scamming the rest of us. 95% of all economic growth has gone straight into the pockets of the wealthy. They love having a gullible public.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Nov 16, 2017 - 12:30pm
opher goodwin
 
Then Marxism or socialism is the answer to the splendor of equality.
 
But, then, the wealthy seem to provide most of the jobs as I never had a job from a poor person. Why is this?
 
Raise taxes to 100% for equality!!
 
JMNSHO
Kerem Oner Added Nov 16, 2017 - 12:38pm
opher is a typical statist tool. Yes, he likely thinks Marxism was not a bad idea! Geesh....
Lynn Johnson Added Nov 16, 2017 - 12:41pm
JC >> Science today is the willing harlot of propaganda.
 
Very well said... the only addition I might have is that she is well paid for her services. (grants, jobs, the entire climate change industry...)
Dave Volek Added Nov 16, 2017 - 1:19pm
Lynn
 
I'm just wondering if you would offer your comments on this point.
 
News analysts reported that Hurricane Irma had the highest wind speed ever recorded in hurricane. This could be part of climate change making our atmosphere more volatile, but let's give this one report to the factor of coincidence or a natural anomaly.
 
Let's say in five years, another hurricane has a higher wind speed than Irma. Then five years later, another hurricane tops that speed.
 
At what point would you come a conclusion that a trend towards more volatile weather is happening?
 
 
Bill H. Added Nov 16, 2017 - 1:52pm
"The Left"-
Phil - You are very good (as many others out here) at labeling people just because their climate change beliefs differ from yours. Simply because I question your beliefs concerning climate change, you conveniently tag me with both the "You People" and "The Left" labels. How do you know that I am not a Republican Conservative that just happens to believe that humans are partially responsible for climate change? Maybe because I have also bashed Trump on other posts? Well, there are many dedicated Republicans who also hate Trump, as you well know.
 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Nov 16, 2017 - 2:57pm
Bill H:
 
"Phil - You are very good (as many others out here) at labeling people just because their climate change beliefs differ from yours. "
From the context of this curious retort we must assume that a belief in a lie or a blind allegiance to a political platitude is justified. After all this is tax business. 
When it comes to fraud, excessive taxes [Al Gore tried to set up an exchange in Chicago to trade carbon credits] the lefties generally ignore the facts for grunt and grab gains. 
When that freak-show loon Rachel Carson [author of Silent Spring] deliberately reversed a finding in the literature about DDT NOT affecting bird eggs no liberal stood up to correct or condemn her. 
Same for Phil Jones when he and Mikie  Manmn changed the data they used to generate the infamous 'Hockey Stick Curve' that showed us that the oceans would boil in less than 100 years. 
 
"Well, there are many dedicated Republicans who also hate Trump, as you well know"
 
Well, there are many dedicated Democrats who also hate the sleazy Clintons, as you well know, and I am one of them. 
Phil Greenough Added Nov 16, 2017 - 3:10pm
Opher;
My premise is the opposite of what you wrote. 
 
Bill;
If there’s one thing I can’t stand more than liberals are those that get so hot and bothered by labels.  What do you want me to call the people that generally support the belief the Earth is warming and to rectify the situation we should tax the rich?  What should we call the people on my side of the debate?  What should we call the people that say things like "you folks?"
Kerem Oner Added Nov 16, 2017 - 3:28pm
Dave Volek, does it look like hurricanes are getting stronger? 
Not to me:
 


RankHurricaneSeasonWinds
mphkm/h
1
Allen
1980
190
305

2
"Labor Day"
1935
185
295


Gilbert
1988
185
295


Wilma
2005
185
295


Irma
2017
185
295

6
Mitch
1998
180
285


Rita
2005
180
285

8
"Cuba"
1932
175
280


Janet
1955
175
280


Carla
1961
175
280


Camille
1969
175
280


Anita
1977
175
280


David
1979
175
280


Andrew
1992
175
280


Katrina
2005
175
280


Dean
2007
175
280


Felix
Kerem Oner Added Nov 16, 2017 - 3:28pm
Btw, those are wind speeds.  Sorry for the messed up formatting
 
Lynn Johnson Added Nov 16, 2017 - 3:50pm
DV >> I'm just wondering if you would offer your comments on this point.
 
Sure Dave :) Thanks for the opportunity.
 
DV >> News analysts reported that Hurricane Irma had the highest wind speed ever recorded in hurricane.
 
Step One (and I always do this) ... never trust "news analysts" who are in general on the left and have an agenda to push (in this case climate change causing stronger hurricanes)  A little skepticism goes a long way... especially with "news analysts".
 
Step Two... research and when necessary (which is quite often) refute said "news analysts".
 
Case in Point: That distinction "highest wind speed ever recorded" belongs to Hurricane Allen (1980) at 190 mph (vs. Irma at 185).  Interestingly enough, other hurricanes (in recorded history) have matched 2nd place Irma... one as far back as 1935.  (This is sustained winds over a minute; the measure by which scientist attribute the strength of a hurricane and set its category.  Would it surprise me if "news analysts" were cherry picking some obscure less scientific criteria to make their points?  No.)
 
(Thanks to Karem Oner… for also correctly refuting the original premise and for providing the raw data.)
 
So, to even begin... we must get past the fact that there are lies, dam lies, and news analysts (to paraphrase Mark Twain).
 
Additionally, we must totally ignore the limited sample the "news analysts" are using (less than a century) to make their claim of worse hurricanes over time.
 
One has to wonder how sure they are that the hurricane that hit Galveston in 1900 (the worst natural disaster in U.S. History) wasn't worse than what is "recorded"?  And what has the cycle been over the last 500 or 1000 years?  Yet!  The "science" is settled.  Hurricanes are worse due to climate change...
 
DV >> This could be part of climate change making our atmosphere more volatile, but let's give this one report to the factor of coincidence or a natural anomaly.
 
Let's not do that... since we've now established the original premise isn't true.  Instead, let's attribute it to a normal CAT5 hurricane that have been forming and hitting the coast of this continent for tens of thousands of years.  Instead, let's attribute it to another talking head pulling the news out of his posterior to push an agenda.
 
DV >> Let's say in five years, another hurricane has a higher wind speed than Irma. Then five years later, another hurricane tops that speed.  At what point would you come a conclusion that a trend towards more volatile weather is happening?
 
Taking the premise of your inquiry seriously despite relying on a flawed foundation...  I’ll do you the courtesy of continuing…
 
Off the top of my head… If you want to convince me over the next twenty years... let's see hurricanes on average consistently increase in intensity by 10%.  Let’s see that record broken 3 or 4 times.  Fair enough? 
 
I will add one more sign that would entice me to take the “science” more seriously… that the proposed solutions to the climate change problems sometimes be something other than more socialism and wealth redistribution with the U.S. footing the bill.
 
OK... now let's turn that question around?  How many disastrous prediction (from the experts) that DON’T come true will it take for YOU to finally conclude it's all a bunch of crap?
 
The answer seems to be “no amount” ... given the repeated failed predictions of the climate change oracles over the past decades.  Inconvenient truths my ^&*%!  Pagans looking at sheep entrails would have a better record.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Nov 16, 2017 - 3:54pm
IF the sun is causing this with varying sun spots over a 204-6 year cycle then the left is out of luck since you cannot tax the sun. 
 
They should pick another platitude. 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Nov 16, 2017 - 4:03pm
Lynn Johnson
 
"I will add one more sign that would entice me to take the “science” more seriously… that the proposed solutions to the climate change problems sometimes be something other than more socialism and wealth redistribution with the U.S. footing the bill."
 
Since the ultimate goal of the left here is to tax and control the rest of us ,then there can be no other options for them other than oppressive socialism, probably of the Marxist form.
 
As a Sr Scientist from a huge chemical company with 26 papers [yes, all peer reviewed!!] I cannot put any trust in the methods and such of the several climate 'researchers' and climate math modelers. Their models are always wrong, do not work in reverse and predict things that do not happen. 
 
Look at the pitiful efforts of the Club of Rome, Rachel Carson, Phil Jones, Al Gore and others. To use the term shabby with respect to their actions would be too kind. 
 
If 'climate change' is modulated by sun spots then we just have to deal with it 
Jeff Michka Added Nov 16, 2017 - 4:05pm
Bill H notes to the wise: Don't waste your efforts here, as all you will get in return is being labeled as a "Commie, Leftist, Progressive, Socialist, Democrat, Snowflake, Alarmist. No matter what you show as evidence, they will forever stick with what the Big Oil "Scientists" have fed them via their search-AND get Lynn Johnson textually screaming about nothing.AND "You People" and "The Left" labels.-yEAH BUT IF ITS RIGHTISTS LABELLING, IT'S Okay, cause the left "deserves it," if a leftist dare label, then its trolling.  These people (yeah) are all hypocrites, or trying to appease each other to themselves like syck ryck.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Nov 16, 2017 - 4:21pm
Jeff
 
Leftist platitudes and slurs gained from years of narrow political training. The left is a perverted group that strives for hate and high taxes and control of the population. 
 
syck [sic] ryck[sic]??
 
JMNSHO, RycK
Dave Volek Added Nov 16, 2017 - 4:23pm
Thanks Lynn
 
Yes, it's not a good idea to take any news media for their "facts." If "the highest wind speed ever recorded" was true, it should have gone a lot further in the news--in my understanding of the world.
 
I have read the analyses of both sides--and it's hard to know who has the better science. There are flakes on both sides, and there is an agenda both sides as well. 
 
These days, I'm on the side of climate change and we should do something about it. But there is doubt in my mind. My risk analysis says it's better to be proactive than wait for absolute proof. It might be too late to start then.
 
That's where I'm at.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Bill H. Added Nov 16, 2017 - 5:03pm
 
Phil - You can call me a "Climate Change Believer" and I can call you a "Climate Change Denier". How's that?
Belief that man is at least partially responsible for a warming climate has nothing to do with politics (unless one's belief is spurred simply by wanting to fit in with a political group that they recognize with). Just because one believes that the climate is changing due to human activity does not automatically make one a "Democrat", "Socialist", or "Liberal".
Labeling is childish. 
Jeff Michka Added Nov 16, 2017 - 5:23pm
SYC RYCK INSISTS: Leftist platitudes and slurs gained from years of narrow political training. The left is a perverted group that strives for hate and high taxes and control of the population.-Where did I get all this training, conehead?  THE KENNEDY FAMILY SHOULD SUE YOU FOR MISUSING JFK'S NAME BY ASSOCIATING IT WITH YOU.  Really, trying to boost your credibility by using JFK in your phony handle.  I'm sure other WBers are fooled, Syck...or is that Slyck?
Jeff Michka Added Nov 16, 2017 - 5:25pm
JMNSHO,-And what the f*** does that mean, pinhead?  funny I CAN'T GET ALL OFFENDED BY SILLY ACRONYMS i DON'T KNOW.  DO YOU KNOW WHAT "FO&D" MEANS, Syck?
Jeff Michka Added Nov 16, 2017 - 5:28pm
Kerem Oner sez: opher is a typical statist tool. Yes, he likely thinks Marxism was not a bad idea! Geesh...Well, if your name and av are correct, keep up the rightist cheerleading.  Most WB rightists here want you deported, or will become afraid of you.
Phil Greenough Added Nov 16, 2017 - 6:03pm
Bill;
I take offense to labeling me a “climate change denier.”  For starters, I believe the climate is constantly in a state of flux.  I also think the term “denier” is most commonly associated with Holocaust Denialism and I believe the Holocaust happened.  I don’t see what the big deal is.  If you called me a conservative, Republican or capitalist I would take no offense.  These labels also link the issue we’re discussing now to politics.  It’s in the political arena where the changes you and I seek can be accomplished.  So no, I don’t think these labels are childish in the slightest, they do a great job of cutting through all the bull shit. 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Nov 16, 2017 - 6:44pm
Jeff:
 
 DO YOU KNOW WHAT "FO&D" MEANS, Syck?
 
 DO YOU KNOW WHAT "STSSOMYGA" MEANS?
 
 
Jeff Michka Added Nov 16, 2017 - 7:29pm
Slyck ryck sez: DO YOU KNOW WHAT "STSSOMYGA" MEANS?-I guess I'm suppose to ask, then get all angry and offended when you tell me, but I still feel sorry for lower animals like you.  Still pondering FO&D?  WHEN YOU FIGURE IT OUT, do it. 
Bill H. Added Nov 16, 2017 - 9:38pm
 
So simple - Just flow with the party commandments and platform.
What if the party decided that all puppies and kittens must be exterminated? What if Trump decides and preaches that all vehicles must be powered by "clean coal"? Will you go with those? 
I don't follow either of the current dysfunctional/corrupt parties and choose to follow my own beliefs.
Tamara Wilhite Added Nov 16, 2017 - 10:18pm
Liberal authoritarians seeking wealth distribution and totalitarian control of society found that "for the planet" works better than "for the children" when a large percentage of the population doesn't have kids. The ever apocalyptic predictions proven false for 40 years only change in the disaster they predict. The fear they seek to induce is the same, so that people will do whatever they say to save themselves.
Bill H. Added Nov 16, 2017 - 11:16pm
 
The Orange Buffoon just struck down a law prohibiting the importation of body parts from African elephants shot for sport.
I am going to just love listening to devout "Conservative Republicans" try to justify that one!
March in-step!
Phil Greenough Added Nov 17, 2017 - 6:30am
Bill;
I make up my own mind.  In that capacity I have chosen to align myself with the groups most similar to my positions on things.  I don’t agree with every Republican, capitalist and conservative, but I certainly agree with them a lot more than I agree with liberals.  Just look at yourself constantly badgering Trump, conservatives and Republicans and saying what a terrible people we all are.  With behavior like that, can you look in the mirror and say you’re not a liberal?
Kerem Oner Added Nov 17, 2017 - 9:03am
Bill H,
sure man is technically partially responsible as CO2, as minute as it is in atmosphere and as weak a GHG as it is, theoretically contributes to warming, but so does peeing in the ocean contribute to rising sea levels................. but wait a second.....how does that happen again since it is rising temperatures that release the trapped CO2 from the oceans???
 
Ahh, science is a bitch, isn't it?
Kerem Oner Added Nov 17, 2017 - 9:05am
And yes, believing in a made up phenomena does have strong correlation to ideology.  AGW is clearly used for ideological purposes.  Aren't you familiar with political rants of key figures like Christina Figueres? 
Kerem Oner Added Nov 17, 2017 - 9:24am
ONCE AGAIN......
 
I ask any OBJECTIVE party to observe and answer this:  Has any so called 'warmist' defended any of their points with SCIENTIFIC FACTS??
No, and they will not because they cannot.  Take my word for it as I am speaking from almost two decades worth of experience here.  I belong to discussion groups and even so-called scientists who defend AGW avoid the subject in a debate.  Oh it is so easy to spew crap while telling everyone else that the debate is over when it has never even been conducted.  They resort to pathetically doltish sites like Skeptical Science as their reference, which in turn gets its sources from 'peer reviewed' (what a joke as the process is broken) papers written in an echo chamber.  However none of these jokers can make a logical, scientifically sound argument on their own.
 
Educate yourselves.  I know that American education system is crappy (embarrassingly weak in STEM especially) and does not prepare one to think independently but people of above average intellect can educate themselves.
Jeff Michka Added Nov 17, 2017 - 1:37pm
Bill H notes: I am going to just love listening to devout "Conservative Republicans" try to justify that one!-That's easy...Trump found it really unfair uberwealthy people that go to Africa on animal shooting safaris, paying all that money, really need something to show for their expenditures.  So it's just a matter of being "fair" to the rich, who labor under their heavy tax burden and need a break like this.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Nov 17, 2017 - 2:06pm
Jeff
 
"Slyck ryck sez: DO YOU KNOW WHAT "STSSOMYGA" MEANS?"
 
You asked me a similar question? Forgot?
 
Are you angry?
Jeff Michka Added Nov 17, 2017 - 2:35pm
syck ryck sez: You asked me a similar question? Forgot? Are you angry?-Nope.  and seems you are "just noise" when it comes to answers.  You obviously didn't follow my advice to FO&D, because you're still writing, precluding the "D" part of that.  please comply. 
Mike Haluska Added Nov 17, 2017 - 4:00pm
Bill H - here is what I found on the major crisis of our lifetime:
 

The Trump administration on Thursday said it had target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">reversed a ban on hunters importing elephant trophies from Zimbabwe and Zambia, according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS).
 
The FWS said the move, which reverses a prohibition enacted by the Obama administration in 2014, follows a revaluation based on new information about the elephant populations and their management in those countries. New estimates show there are 80,000 elephants in Zimbabwe, according to the FWS. The agency does not say what the estimate was in 2014. The government of Zimbabwe issues permits to hunt 500 elephants annually, collecting fees that hunting backers say supports conservation.

 
“Sport hunting, as part of a sound wildlife management program, can provide benefits to conservation,” the FWS said in a bulletin announcing the decision. “When the Service announced an interim suspension on the import of elephant trophies from Zimbabwe on April 4, 2014, we based our decision on the limited information available to us… the facts on the ground have changed and improved.”
 
That being said, I personally think it's pathetic that a so-called "Big Game Hunter" shoots any animal just to amputate the creature's head and mount it above their fireplace.  My belief is that if you are not going to eat it, then don't kill it.

Bill H. Added Nov 17, 2017 - 4:11pm
 
Me thinks that if a species is near extinction, it's not a good idea to continue killing them. The only reason Trump would kill a law like that is to keep his trophy-hunting kids happy.
The picture of DT Jr. holding the amputated tail of an elephant he just murdered was one of the most pathetic sites I have seen. What a sicko!!
Mike Haluska Added Nov 17, 2017 - 4:12pm
Bill H -
Please calm down and be rational.  President Trump NEVER said he wants coal to "replace" any energy source.  What he advocates is that ALL POSSIBLE ENERGY SOURCES BE FULLY EXPLOITED!  In addition, coal is a necessary material for making steel - and I think you agree that our nation's infrastructure is in dire need of repair/replacement - we're going to need LOTS of steel.
 
Look - it's going on a year since President Trump took office.  Has anything been done that has drastically altered any of your freedoms?  Lots of great things are happening with the economy, stupid job killing trade agreements were cancelled, we're about to have our tax code greatly simplified and taxes lowered, the problems with the VA are finally being addressed, etc.  If you won't actively endorse him at least give him a chance and acknowledge when he does something good for our country.
Bill H. Added Nov 17, 2017 - 6:52pm
 
Mike - Of course, joking about the "coal-powered vehicles", but just trying to raise a point that is seems like almost all self-labeled "Conservative Republicans" out here literally march in-step with anything Trump endorses or wants. I am totally for secure borders (still waiting) and more funds for law enforcement (still waiting). I think that if you deeply research his tax plan, you will find that it will screw both you and me over time, but Trump will be smiling all of the way to the (offshore) bank.
My biggest concern even before he took office was his appearance of being not only a bigot, but a possible threat to the unity of the country, which has proven true (after all, we call ourselves the United States of America). To me, this is of major concern as is his constant taunting of NK, which I am afraid will end up resulting in a nuclear confrontation. Personally, I find his style of ego and obsession with himself as being obnoxious. Any REAL President would make their first priority that of uniting the country around his or hers ideals. The only Presidents I remember who were able to do this were JFK (big time) and Ronald Reagan (for the most part).
Sorry, Mike - I can't support this guy at all.
Phil Greenough Added Nov 17, 2017 - 7:30pm
Bill;
The US Fish & Wildlife Service believes it’s beneficial to the species to allow trophies to be shipped.  The argument is that wealthy hunters from America’s money could go a long way towards saving the species.  Besides, just because America bans it doesn’t mean the practice won’t happen.   You see, when you take off your “hate-Trump” blinders he’s not so terrible.  Perhaps one day you'll even give him the benefit of the doubt and explore the stories rather than just focusing on the "gotcha" headlines repeated by liberal leaning media outlets.    
Jeff Michka Added Nov 17, 2017 - 9:10pm
PG pontificates: The argument is that wealthy hunters from America’s money could go a long way towards saving the species.  Besides, just because America bans it doesn’t mean the practice won’t happen.-AND then son USAY CAN GO BACK AND GET AN ELEPHANT'S HEAD.  Once again, the money is the key.  Saving animal species is a waste of time for a Trump.  Animals (4 legs) don't play golf or stay in hotels, so what possible good are they?  Something about "I told you so..."
Jeff Michka Added Nov 17, 2017 - 9:11pm
Killing all those animals will surely get all the coal miners back to work as the Orange stain promised...
Bill H. Added Nov 17, 2017 - 10:13pm
So continuing to shoot elephants could "go a long way to saving the species"? Somehow I knew this one would be pushed as a defense for yet another Buffoon Blunder.
That certainly worked for woolly mammoths, giant armadillos and camels here in the US way back when.
I don't believe the US Fish and Wildlife service really believes this, as I suspect they have received mandatory talking points from Trump to defend the favors that he has extended to his kids.
And for sure any money that would be generated and earmarked for conservation would inevitably end up in the hands of the local government and spent on other priorities.
I just can't wait to hear how Sarah "Next Question" Huckabee spins this one, as Trump surely won't say a word about it.
Phil Greenough Added Nov 18, 2017 - 6:14am
Bill;
All I’m trying to say is that Trump is not some major gun lover that wishes elephants harm as the liberal media would like for us all to believe.  There is a sound argument for why the ban should be lifted, the fact you choose not to make yourself aware of it, simply shows your liberal bias. 
 
Jeff;
I’m sorry but I don’t read hieroglyphics. 
Simply Jews Added Nov 18, 2017 - 9:56am
If I am allowed to return to the subject of the original article: the pairing of "climate" and "justice" is definitely allowed and valid under the principles (oh well) of the intersectionality - the relatively recently minted example of politically correct idiocy.
 
Not sure whether you remember, but both Obama and Kerry connected terrorism with global warming. So why not connect climate with some kind (any kind, actually) of justice?  
Bill H. Added Nov 18, 2017 - 11:16am
Sorry - one last comment on the elephant issue:
You can label it as "Liberal Bias", but I am sure many would see it as common sense. Donald Trump himself may not be a "major gun lover", but his two son's are certainly trying there best to make up for their lack of manhood by their lust for killing exotic wildlife for trophies as can be seen in these photos.
The only sound argument is for the US to work with other nations to ban the importation of ivory from African elephants to all countries. It just so happens that over 70% of the poached ivory is being routed to China, even though they have recently banned the ivory trade.
I have no issues with hunting for well-managed species as long as the meat is consumed. I used to hunt rabbits with my grandfather during my teen years. I am an avid fisherman who practices catch and release fishing, but will occasionally keep some fish to consume during backpacking trips or if one is injured by the hook. And yes, I actually have 3 guns for home defense and target shooting.
Trump's decision to lift this ban was one of his most ill-conceived moves yet, and one that will cause his to loose more support, even with his own voter base. 
Jeff Michka Added Nov 18, 2017 - 5:42pm
PG sez: Jeff; I’m sorry but I don’t read hieroglyphics.-Do you read?
Jeff Michka Added Nov 18, 2017 - 5:44pm
Of course, joking about the "coal-powered vehicles",-I'm not.  How are we gonna get those poooooor coal miners all back on the job, unless we start driving coal powered Teslas?  If it doesn't run on coal, what good is it? Bah.  More Trumpism in a jar.
Lynn Johnson Added Nov 18, 2017 - 7:43pm
Bill H >> So continuing to shoot elephants could "go a long way to saving the species"? Somehow I knew this one would be pushed as a defense for yet another Buffoon Blunder.
 
Actually, if you follow the organization Ducks Unlimited (founded and comprised of duck hunters); they have done more for duck habitat and thus the duck population than pretty well anybody... including all government agencies combined. So yes... hunters often do a lot in the realm of conservation.
Bill H. Added Nov 18, 2017 - 8:13pm
Lynn - That works here in the US, but certainly would not work in Africa.
Ducks are not an endangered species.
I am a member of Trout Unlimited and have an idea how this works, at least in fisheries.
Phil Greenough Added Nov 19, 2017 - 5:57am
Bill;
The primary reason elephants are endangered is because of loss of habitat.  These hunters make it so that elephant habitat is more profitable than crop land or something else.  It preserves the species potential to exist in the wild rather than in zoos.  No African nation is going kill the golden goose by allowing too many elephants to be end up as trophies.  I should also remind you that US Fish and Wildlife Service and the country of Zambia and Zimbabwe support the decision to lift the ban.  Do you really think all of these entities wish elephants harm?  You should be thanking Trump for saving the species.  Of course that would force you to thank that which you and your liberal brethren call an elephant killer, racist, misogynist, anti-Semite, etc. 
 
Jeff;
That one made sense.  Trump doesn’t wish for there to be coal fired Teslas.  What made you think a thing like that?
 
Simply Jews;
Good example.  I guess that means liberals believe to combat terrorism we need to tax the rich. 
Bill H. Added Nov 19, 2017 - 11:45am
 
Trump ended up backing off on his "decision" (reaction) to end the ban due to the expected backlash he received. Now maybe rather than reversing decisions simply because they were made by his predecessor, doing favors for his kids, The NRA, or knee-jerk reactions to his prejudices, this can be actually researched and evaluated by other than his arena of "Yes" people who move on his every whim. If this decision was actually made by people who are experts in the field and were not being financed by special interests (Safari Club International) and only concerned for the survival of the species, then I would have faith in what was decided.
For a person of Trump's caliber to make a decision like this gives me no comfort.   
Jeff Michka Added Nov 19, 2017 - 1:02pm
PG spouts: Trump doesn’t wish for there to be coal fired Teslas.  What made you think a thing like that?-He doesn't?  How are all those coal miners going to get back mining coal without the 19th C technologies just waiting for a break they've not gotten for 118 years.  Mount dead elephant heads on big lumps of coal means hundreds of safaris shooting down elephants.  In the R tradition, LIKE Dick Cheney's "hunting", they can tie elephants to stakes so Usay (Don Jr.) can shoot them and not break a sweat.  Trump is only a reactive lump of garbage, so coal-fired Teslas must be on the drawing boards, right?
Phil Greenough Added Nov 19, 2017 - 7:11pm
Bill;
I wouldn’t believe everything the MSM reports.  The reporting from the media sources I ascribe to translate this story as follows: The “gotcha” headlines of Trump paving the way for elephants to be unnecessarily killed was too much to overcome.  The truth is that the liberal media was for more interested in taking another bite out of Trump than they were in preserving elephant habitat.  Because of their politics, elephant habitat is now more endangered and because of that, elephant populations are more at risk as well as the populations of many other species.   
 
Jeff;
While China and India build coal power plants at the rate of 5 per week, it makes no sense to close ours.  Especially in light of the many advancements in clean coal technology and other measures to make coal more environmentally friendly.  So yes, for reasons unrelated to Tesla, coal workers should be thankful Trump is president.
Bill H. Added Nov 19, 2017 - 11:46pm
 
Well, all I can say is that Trump is lucky to have people who will go along with virtually anything he cooks up no matter what. I call it the Huckabee (formerly the Spicer) Syndrome. I especially have to laugh when I hear the term "Clean Coal". Is that like "Safe Poisons" or "Living Dead"?
Eileen de Bruin Added Nov 20, 2017 - 10:21am
Why would NASA go to the trouble of pointing out the effects of climate change and show a world map of the changing polar caps over a period of twenty years?
 
“Nasa map on Earth’s 20 years of seasonal changes highlights climate change
Nasa map visualization shows spring coming earlier and autumn lasting longer. Also noticeable is the Arctic ice caps receding over time — and, though less obvious, the Antarctic, too.” Easy to look this up, folks.
 
Erm, Phil, what has the right wing and left wing of politics really got to do with the fundamental issues of making the planet unable to support human life?  It, as in the earth itself, will go on anyway, the human species....whatever its wealth, health and happiness and political views.....will be gone.  
 
It is a fact that if you rip out forests, you create deserts because the top soil blows away ...there are also fewer trees absorbing the carbons and giving us oxygen.....this isn’t rocket science, it is basic science. Even though I was bored at school, all of this was obvious without too much thought of any particular political flavour!
 
Bill H. Added Nov 20, 2017 - 11:33am
Eileen - What you state is quite obvious to many. To others, it is the fear of having to make the required sacrifices and changes from "business as usual", and factors like the loss of short-term bottom line business profits to satisfy stockholders (Discussed in a different article).
When it comes to this, fear overcomes logic and we are forced to follow the wrong path, constantly making excuses to do so and constantly trying to convince ourselves and others that we are right.
Mike Haluska Added Nov 20, 2017 - 12:27pm
Eileen - your question:
"Why would NASA go to the trouble of pointing out the effects of climate change and show a world map of the changing polar caps over a period of twenty years?"
is answered in many places but you want learn about from the Mainstream Media.  First of all, the main culprit at NASA behind this abuse of resources and misinformation is James Hansen.  If you do any amount of research, you'll find he is a fraud and self-promoter who was trying to build an "empire" of his own at NASA.
 
Second - what is so impressive about showing the arctic growing and receding?  It has been doing exactly that for millennia!  What you should be wondering is why you have been duped into believing the prognostications of frauds who have been making one "Imminent Doomsday Forecast" after another for the PAST 40 YEARS AND NEVER GET ONE RIGHT!!!
 
You people who believe this crap despite the irrefutable fact that they have NEVER BEEN RIGHT are like those religious nutjobs who go out in the woods every year and wait for Jesus to come in a spaceship and take them to Heaven!  Every year they go, and every year Jesus never shows but that doesn't deter them!!!
Mike Haluska Added Nov 20, 2017 - 12:30pm
Bill H -
Since you are so "intellectual honest" and "morally above us all", how about if you renounce any benefit that comes your way due to the Trump Administration?  When your taxes get lowered, add the amount you saved and remit it to the government. 
Eileen de Bruin Added Nov 20, 2017 - 12:41pm
Bill H, I shall take a look at that article then.
 
Mike, what on earth are you going on about? This has NOTHING to do with nipping out to the woods to meet a space craft.  It is basic stuff. Fewer insects this year, haven’t you noticed?  Even Michael Gove has noticed it and he is now endeavouring to stop the pesticides used i. agriculture.  He is about as right w8ng as you can get and I really do not like this guy at all.  But he, even he is getting the message: no bees, no food cycle at alll...that is what I mean, it is not rocket science is it?
Mike Haluska Added Nov 20, 2017 - 12:44pm
Bill H - your asinine comment:
"If this decision was actually made by people who are experts in the field and were not being financed by special interests (Safari Club International) and only concerned for the survival of the species, then I would have faith in what was decided."
needs rebuttal.  Your criteria has NOTHING to do with elephants, hunting, conservation, etc.  If President Trump does "A" you object to it - that is your sole criteria.  I live in Indiana, where there are LOTS of deer running everywhere.  We deliberately allow hunting of them because without many natural predators, the deer population expands forcing them into residential areas.  When this happens, lots of people get killed when they hit/try to avoid hitting a deer while driving their cars! 
 
In Africa and Asia, healthy adult elephants have no predatory threat.  They can easily overpopulate a territory causing great harm to other species in the food chain by exhausting the plant life food supply for those species.  Guess what large predators like lions do when the normal population of game dwindles and they are facing starvation?  They sure as hell don't blame President Trump - they start hunting humans.     
 
Bill H. Added Nov 20, 2017 - 1:03pm
Mike, I stated earlier that US wildlife management techniques work great so far. The problem in Africa is poaching and demand for ivory. The efforts need to be directed at stopping poaching (i.e. stopping killing), not promoting killing to stop killing. You damn well know as well as I do (but won't admit) that Trumps idiotic short-lived decision was made simply to satisfy both his children and their buddies in the Safari Club International. Even China has recently banned the importation of ivory in an effort to help.
In the mean time, I will patiently sit back and wait for something beneficial for me to come from the Orange Buffoon.
So far it's been nothing but division, hate, negativity and bringing us to the brink of war, but I will continue to have patience, sir.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Nov 20, 2017 - 1:55pm
Kerem:
 
"- I would not tout peer review as if it were something other than an echo chamber for like-minded thought.  If you were a scientist (one with integrity that is), you would know that.  I suggest you read up on the joke that the process has become:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1420798/
https://www.nature.com/news/peer-review-troubled-from-the-start-1.19763"
 
With 26 papers, all peer reviewed, and 450+ citations from the Citation Index, I can confirm that many journals have their own gurus and tend to fend off many contributions to that particular part of science. I refereed papers in the area of chromatography for a dozen years and tried to be fair, but many never made publication even after I put in positive remarks about the submissions and the quality of the science. 
 
Each journal has a cabal of some size driven by the politics of the 'currently accepted' notions of scientific review. Most of the time they are very fair. 
 
Phil Jones and Mike Mann are extreme examples of dutifully excluding papers that offer negative results or negative commentary on the papers of that pair. 
 
This follows in a parallel fashion for research grants as as there are 'clubs' of 'friends' who want to do much of the research in that area so they tend to exclude others. 
Phil Greenough Added Nov 20, 2017 - 4:21pm
Bill;
Just when I think we’re getting somewhere on climate change you change the subject to elephants and after thinking we might have shown you the light on elephants, you change the subject to coal. I give you credit for being slippery. 
 
Eileen;
Mike is making a lot of sense, I highly suggest you pay attention rather than pretend you don’t know what he’s “going on about.”  The fact NASA is spending time and effort on climate change is probably one of the reason we don’t much of a space program anymore.   You may think everyone that disagrees with you on climate change he is right-winger, hell-bent on watching the destruction of the Earth.  The truth is the matter is that Mike and I wish very much for the environment to be healthy and well.  However, we recognize that we live in a world of limited financial resources.  The climate change boogeyman, if he even exists, may not be stoppable.  However, in the interim, let’s spend our money wisely and do things like save elephant habitat.  Or, like Bill, are you more interested in playing politics?
Bill H. Added Nov 20, 2017 - 5:24pm
Many times the truth about political agendas overrides the truth about the subject being discussed. This is the factor in both discussions going on here.
I apologize for taking this off-subject. 
Jeff Michka Added Nov 20, 2017 - 7:45pm
Tamara Wilbwhite sez: Liberal authoritarians seeking wealth distribution and totalitarian control of society found that "for the planet" works better than "for the children"-I guess that explains why fascist lawmakers title legislation with things like "An Act relating to the Protection of Children" I HELPED CONVINCE A governor in this state to veto.  It had nothing to do with children, it was just another rightist censorship bill that wanted to put "blinder racks" on the Internet so nobody could see what the rightists didn't want them to see, including sculpture and art, and make site owners liable..  You cryptofascists always beat the same drum.
Jeff Michka Added Nov 20, 2017 - 9:36pm
EdeB asks: Erm, Phil, what has the right wing and left wing of politics really got to do with the fundamental issues of making the planet unable to support human life- Bill H answered that well, and it's pointless to argue climate change with WB's new crop of climate scientists, who will never ever change their minds, respective of anything.  They are, as suggsted,"CLIMATE CHANGE DENIERS", who cares if Phil GREENHOLE TAKES OFFENCE AT BEING CALLED ONE?
Mike Haluska Added Nov 21, 2017 - 10:10am
Phil - excellent thoughts!
 
After practicing engineering for almost 40 years now, I am sad to see that the level of scientific ignorance has fallen so low in the past  few decades.  I'm not referring to ignorance of scientific subject material, but ignorance of how science is legitimately practiced.  In the minds of those who call skeptics "Deniers", the basics of logic and Scientific Method have been replaced with a politically based methodology.
 
Instead of appealing to rationality, the "Climate Change" gang appeals to ignorance-based fear mongering.  When fear doesn't work, they appeal to the basic emotion of wanting to "fit in" or appear "compassionate" so that supporters are granted a status of "caring, compassionate, principled individuals fighting the evil "fossil fuel/Big Oil" multi-national corporations", while legitimate skeptics are denounced, cursed, admonished and castigated as "DENIERS".  God help you if you are ignorant of legitimate scientific methods, generally like to get along and avoid confrontation and dare question the "Climate Change" pseudo-scientists!
 
Applying basic principles of logic has been perverted to the non-sensical and statistically wrong belief that  "correlation is equal to causality".  Gathering ALL data and then evaluating/drafting a theory/testing the theory has been sidetracked by determining the desired conclusion and then looking only for data that supports the pre-determined conclusion.  Constructing experiments to verify/disprove the theory has been replaced with "peer review" and "Consensus Science" - as if the "opinion" of a group holds any scientific validity whatsoever.  Rather than testing the predicted outcome of the theory against reality, computer models using historical data are "force fed" modified data and manipulated variable coefficients until the model fits the reality of the past.  Whenever the computer models are challenged to forecast (not match up to past data) even the IPCC admits they are so inaccurate as to be rendered useless.
 
The typical WB writer has no awareness of the origins of "Consensus Science" and the terrible consequences of practicing it.  When I bring up the story of Eugenics they stare blankly at their screens and even if they look it up they are incapable of seeing any parallels between it and "Human Caused Climate Change".  They can't even recognize the immediate history that many of them experienced and how for the past 40 years the "Climate Change" gang has annually predicted hundreds of "Imminent Doomsday Forecasts" and they NEVER MATERIALIZE!  It's not like they're 50% accurate so maybe they have some credibility . . . they are NEVER EVEN CLOSE!!!  Yet the "believers" won't accept reality and keep chanting their "DENIER" mantra!!!    
 
Mike Haluska Added Nov 21, 2017 - 10:14am
For those of you actually think for yourselves and are curious about "Consensus Science" and "Eugenics":
 
http://www.michaelcrichton.com/why-politicized-science-is-dangerous/
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Nov 21, 2017 - 10:53am
" In the minds of those who call skeptics "Deniers", the basics of logic and Scientific Method have been replaced with a politically based methodology."
 
This and the failure of their predictions shows that they have only politics to offer with myths and threats to strengthen their worthless case. 
Bill H. Added Nov 21, 2017 - 11:20am
 
Here is a paper that I came across recently that helps explain why individuals tend to agree with whatever platform their particular political party adapts, and why many attempts to reason with others here on WB end up resulting in even more conflict.
 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Nov 21, 2017 - 12:01pm
Almost an entire book was written on the subject of True Believers. by Eric Hoffer. 
 
"The famous bestseller with “concise insight into what drives the mind of the fanatic and the dynamics of a mass movement” (Wall St. Journal) by Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient Eric Hoffer, The True Believer is a landmark in the field of social psychology, and even more relevant today than ever before in history. Called a “brilliant and original inquiry” and “a genuine contribution to our social thought” by Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., The True Believer is mandatory reading for anyone interested in the machinations by which an individual becomes a fanatic."
 
Another valuable source is the administration literature  of the gulags by Lenin and his followers. They found ways to re-educate many and made them True Believers in Marxism's later variants. Mao had a good version as well. 
 
Left-liberals are True Believers and wannabee Marxists but with poor test scores. 
 
Drugs help facilitate this process.
Eileen de Bruin Added Nov 21, 2017 - 1:04pm
Phil, anything can be made into a political item, subject or object.
 
Belief, in itself, has no purpose because a belief is a programme or something told to you so many times, that it is taken as a given.  Question belief, I say.
 
The effects of human living on our climate are being felt and the rubbish and waste and by products are poisoning the earth, the seas, the waters, the creatures, us.
 
I love Blue Planet, narrated by David Attenborough eho is into his nineties and has no political agenda.  
 
I walk down the street and into the woods and see the effects of farming poisons, cattle breeding on the trees. I am not coloured by any political argument. I can witness what is happening.
Bill H. Added Nov 21, 2017 - 2:15pm
 
Myself and others have been around long enough and have taken the time to observe the abnormally rapid changes that are occurring in our local geographic areas, which include rises in local timberlines, insect, bird, and plant species changes, average ocean temperature and species changes, precipitation patterns and storm intensities, a 4" to 6" increase in local sea level to name a few. These are factors that have convinced myself and others in my area from all political arenas. I have had many discussions on related subjects, and I am sorry to report to the staunch "WB Rightist" group (as JM calls you) that yes, there actually exists CONSERVATIVES AND REPUBLICANS, EVEN TRUMP VOTERS who agree the climate is changing rapidly and that humans are at least partially, if not for the most part responsible for our recent, rapid (at least 10 times faster than past events) warming trend. The group I am referring to in my area includes hikers, fishermen, marine biologists, land owners, several FAA and TV Meteorologists, and a local forest service biologist, all of whom are self-professed Republican voters. I suspect most of them don't sit around watching FOX News all day or reading the ranting on Breitbart.
 
Mike Haluska Added Nov 21, 2017 - 2:40pm
Eileen - your statement:
"I love Blue Planet, narrated by David Attenborough eho is into his nineties and has no political agenda."
emphasizes a problem with the "Human Caused Climate Change" debate.  I found repetitively that the proponents of "Human Caused Climate Change" try to deflect skeptics by putting up a false dichotomy:
 
If you are a "Human Caused Climate Change" proponent you are an environmentalist
                                              vs.
If you question "Human Caused Climate Change" it is because you want to pollute the Earth and kill innocent people
 
You can question "Human Caused Climate Change" and still be a responsible environmentalist.     
Mike Haluska Added Nov 21, 2017 - 2:46pm
Bill H - your statement:
"there actually exists CONSERVATIVES AND REPUBLICANS, EVEN TRUMP VOTERS who agree the climate is changing rapidly and that humans are at least partially, if not for the most part responsible for our recent, rapid (at least 10 times faster than past events) warming trend."
 
applies to the small corner of the Earth where you reside.  You are drawing planetary conclusions from a microscopic sample size.  I could just as easily come up with a dozen locations where the exact opposite is occurring!  Does that make my assertion "correct"?  Of course not!  Legitimate Science is NOT:
1) Voted on
2) The result of "polls"
3) Done by "sampling"
 
You also keep posting the totally false and unsubstantiated "10 times faster warming trend"!   
Bill H. Added Nov 21, 2017 - 3:26pm
 
Right on cue, Mike!
I knew you would be the first to rebut.
Just saying that just because one calls themselves a "Conservative Republican" does not necessarily mean they always agree with the "Party Line" on climate change. As is the case for some Democrats.
Phil Greenough Added Nov 21, 2017 - 4:44pm
Jeff;
My secret decoder pen ran out of ink, otherwise I would have issued you a response.
 
Mike;
Those that disagree with you and I aren't ignorant.  You’re asking them to not let their bias interfere in their analytic thinking.  Even our respective bias has probably clouded our analytic thinking ability.  Frankly, raising a fuss about climate change is the smartest argument I’ve heard for those that wish to increase taxes on the rich.  The best we can do is to keep pointing out the fallacies of their argument and hope it resonates. 
 
Bill;
What you said about bias and political party couldn’t be more accurate.  The good news from my perspective is that rather than dismiss us as crazy deniers, you’re paying attention.  Most liberals/Democrats won’t even give us the time of day.
 
Eileen;
To be sure, the effects of humans on our environment are being felt.  From toxic waste to loss of wildlife habitat, humans have fucked up our environment pretty good.  However, you have no idea what humans have done to the climate.  You don’t even know if it’s getting warmer or cooler, that’s why you changed your spiel to climate change.  So long as the phrase “climate change” is uttered we stand very apart, but should you decide to stop playing politics with the environment, we could stand together.    
Bill H. Added Nov 21, 2017 - 6:17pm
I'm actually not a Democrat, I have voted for some Republicans in the past, and I am all for closed borders and sane people's rights to own guns.
Oh, and I am for the death penalty.
I don't make a very good example for the "Liberal" label.
Jeff Michka Added Nov 21, 2017 - 7:56pm
PG claims: Jeff; My secret decoder pen ran out of ink, otherwise I would have issued you a response.-Try reading what I wrote.  You'd rater not reply, but keep using this sort of excuse.  You are a "text denier" along with being a climate change denier.
 
Jeff Michka Added Nov 21, 2017 - 7:57pm
Bill H SEZ: I'm actually not a Democrat, I have voted for some Republicans in the past, and I am all for closed borders and sane people's rights to own guns.
Oh, and I am for the death penalty.
I don't make a very good example for the "Liberal" label. -Oh, this will cause rightist heads to explode.  They won't know how to pigeonhole you.
Bill H. Added Nov 21, 2017 - 10:15pm
 
No worries, Jeff! They always label me a "Liberal Progressive Socialist Democrat" when I don't see their way about climate change, corporate greed, and killing Elephants. It's all in the "platform".
Eileen de Bruin Added Nov 22, 2017 - 3:12am
Phil, well that is interesting! It is merely the term “climate change” and specifically “human caused climate change” and even more specifically those phrases being added to any given cause which wants to be on this band wagon, to obtain interest in its real cause.
 
Well, yes, got it!  Whichever band wagon any kind of religious or politically fuelled debate can attach itself to to get publicity, yes, that sounds like politicking.
 
Environmental issues and climate issues are, of course, related at various levels but, yes, I understand your distinctions and the real point that you wish to make.
 
Phil Greenough Added Nov 22, 2017 - 8:41am
Bill;
I think you’re making a mistake.  One with a belief structure such as yours should be voting the Democratic ticket. On occasion you may choose a Republican for Register of Probate, but the Republican Party is not the party for you.  For whatever it’s worth, I vote the Republican ticket at every election and believe immigrants make America great. 
 
Jeff;
Allow me to provide you some grammatical advice so that I and others don’t have to sift through our cereal boxes for secret decoder pens. 
-stop writing in all caps
-when quoting someone use quotation marks
-try to be less confusing “EdeB asks: Erm, Phil,” is nonsensical
 
Eileen;
Just so I’m clear, what is the “real” point I wish to make?
Bill H. Added Nov 22, 2017 - 11:08am
 
My reasons for closed borders may not be what you suspect. My concern is diminishing resources, jobs, open space, and the resulting negative byproducts of overpopulation. That should certainly put me back on the "Liberal Socialist" watch list! 
Eileen de Bruin Added Nov 22, 2017 - 3:09pm
Phil, ok. That whatever bandwagon is in the vogue, in this case climate change, any progressive party or movement will hang its satchel in the same band wagon, in order to obtain exposure for their cause.
 
Frankly, I should have read your first post properly, rather than react emotionally to climate change deniers ( perceived).  Ok, is that suitable?
Jeff Michka Added Nov 22, 2017 - 8:58pm
Phil Greenhole demands-stop writing in all caps
-when quoting someone use quotation marks
-try to be less confusing “EdeB asks: Erm, Phil,” is nonsensical.  Only to you, and gee when text is presented in italics, and someone else obviously wrote it, that seems to suffice, but not for ol Fill, it seems.  You want things so you don't have to answer, and that's okay, your answers aren't that illuminating.  After all you're just a run of the mill climate change denier.
Phil Greenough Added Nov 23, 2017 - 5:54am
Bill;
Get a load of this, I think every illegal currently residing in the United States be granted the legal right to both live and work here.  For an additional fee, they can be put on the path to Citizenship.  Despite having these views, it’s been decades since I’ve voted for a Democrat in any election.
 
Eileen;
I’m sorry but what you just wrote has nothing to with my views.  I think you should re-read the article.
 
Jeff;
One more tip to increase your coherency. Press the return enter bar more often.  “Only to you” should have been on the next line. 
Eileen de Bruin Added Nov 23, 2017 - 10:36am
Ok Phil, well I didn’t give you the credit for being extremely cynical and.....emotionally disturbed when it comes to your belief system that needs to protect “the rich”at all costs, so your comment in the original post:
 
Accordingly, “climate change” is just another way to get access to the rich’s pocket-book.
 
 
Is just about it!  Blimey, you are more narrow minded and on the band wagon of protect the rich at all costs, than I ever have been or will be on climate change, whilst realising the environmental factors created by the big boys, the rich and famous etc.   will actally affect us all, rich and poor and black and white.
 
Now, think about your own belief system.  What pre judice , as in what judgements have you owned, to make you this narrow?
 
Jeff Michka Added Nov 23, 2017 - 1:50pm
Fill Greenhole insists: One more tip to increase your coherency. Press the return enter bar more often.  “Only to you” should have been on the next line.-You are the prig your writing suggests.  Try actually reading what people write, even though that may expose you to views contrary to your limited "world view".
Jeff Michka Added Nov 23, 2017 - 5:44pm
Fill Greenhole demands: Jeff;Allow me to provide you som-Nope I won't, but am in the mood to tell you to take your advice and go f*** yourself with it, rightist.
Phil Greenough Added Nov 23, 2017 - 9:50pm
Eileen;
Now we’re getting somewhere.  I’m not trying to protect the rich at all costs.  I’m simply making the point that your climate change alarm-ism, is really a back door means to harming the rich.  My intention is to protect capitalism.  There is no capitalism when liberals like you decide the rich must continually pay more.  I also deeply care about the environment.  Watching liberals like you throw good money after bad to do nothing about climate change, is very disheartening. 
Eileen de Bruin Added Nov 24, 2017 - 3:54am
Phil,
the rich need no protecting from the likes of me. I am not a liberal mainly because I do not know either what it is in American terms and definitely not in what your terms imply!
 
Some of the very rich are trying to educate people about crass wealth hoarding and the creation of extreme poverty which results in extremism fanatics trying to fight back. And which also creates wastelands and soil erosion and poisoned. waters and people filled with sugars and belabouring with diabetes and hefty obesity...and addiction to drugs in the normal pharma driven world of down town US.....all in the name of free enterprise and making a buck. And fuck the world.
 
It would be wise for all of us to take a good look at ourselves, our values and our real, underlying, drivers. I can be astonished at some of my latent prejudices.
 
My tendency to think that I have earned what I have and therefore owe nothing to anyone, is one that I am tempering with a realisation that it would be a lonely and sad place without everyone else. And, without everyone else, I would have achieved nothing and no material wealth at all. So, instead of retiring to the UK where I would pay next to no tax and have a big house and great, private health care, I settled in a European country where I have to pay taxes and contribute to the social healthcare which I share with everyone else.
 
I introduce you to the band wagon of Depth. 
 
Bill H. Added Nov 24, 2017 - 11:42am
 
There are two mindsets.
One is to plunder resources and pollute for immediate profit with no regard for the future, and the other is to use resources wisely in a way that all life on earth can continue to survive and enjoy this beautiful planet.
It pretty much comes down to the "Me" or "Us" attitude. 
Jeff Michka Added Nov 24, 2017 - 2:04pm
Lynn "bully boy" Johnson complains: I thought this Pope was from South America... Argentina to be exact.  They made a big deal out of it... part of the new diversity program or something.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
I'll format like ol angry Lynn boy. That way, maybr his wife and kids will take a punch or two less from him if he gets some "online appeasement".
 
 
 

 
The main point is that he is a leftist (if not a Marxist) wherever he acquired th-And here I THOUGHT AND READ this article was about climate change, but noooo...according to Lynn's comments, it was about the pope. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Maybe ol Lynn boy can take his own "advice" and stay on topic.  Seems the pope works ol Lynn into his cryptofascist frenzy.  Good one for Pope Frank, who cares less about Lynn boy than I Do, but he wants a fight.  Perhaps another hit article on me will fulfill him.
 
Now this comment is formatted like  a LYNN COMMENT, SO HE CAN GET LESS EXCITED WHEN HE TROLLS...
 
 
 
 
HE REALLY OUGHT TO STAY ON TOPIC, BUT i KNOW HIS NEWEST "GOOD FRIEND," Fill Greenhole doesn't care. Lynn's formatting is to hide the fact he really doesn't say much, but wants to look like he does. 
 
 
Delete on, kiddos.
Phil Greenough Added Nov 24, 2017 - 9:24pm
Eileen;
Liberal to me basically means anti-capitalist.  As an anti-capitalist it doesn’t surprise me one bit that you look at the rich as some personal piggy bank, whereby any amount of money you take is perfectly acceptable.  You justify your theft on account of their greed but never look in the mirror at your own greed, or envy, if that’s the better term.  As it relates to this article, the climate change crusade is merely a mechanism to take from the rich under guise it’s for the well-being of mankind.  It’s all a bunch of bullshit and I’m happy to be on the just side of this debate. 
 
Bill;
Nobody I know seeks to plunder resources and pollute with no regard for the future.  Put yourself in the shoes of some rich person with a fabulous business and a full family, do you really think this person doesn’t care about the future?  Do you realize that the longer his business is projected to make a profit the more he can sell it for?  What you believe doesn’t make any logical sense.
 
Michka;
What’s the deal with all the unnecessary blank space in your latest comment?  Are you sane?
Bill H. Added Nov 25, 2017 - 10:27pm
Have being in a position of business power at one time, the only driving factor was the year end bonus, which in our sector was only geared towards the keeping the month-end stockholder report looking good. All other factors that related to operating a profitable business long-term were a lost art. There was virtually no regard for either happy customers or happy employees.
The only future that was of concern was the financial future of the CEO and the other "C"s.
Eileen de Bruin Added Nov 26, 2017 - 4:33am
Phil, I am not anti capitalist. Not at all. I have done well out of capitalism as a part of our lives alongside other facets of our lives. So, I am not at all sure what your real message is, other than being apparently paranoid about anyone endeavouring to seek balance and rationalisation.
 
Bill, me or us, yes.  The quarterly focus on increasing margins means that longer term and more balanced investment is sacrificed. It does rip out the soul of many businesses. The concept of long term planning is alien to the US model of business.  The band wagon of environmental issues or climate effects is just pushed away or ignored.  
Jeff Michka Added Nov 26, 2017 - 12:03pm
Well, well ol Fill Greenhole, the crypto fascist deleted my reply.  Figures, since it addressed his duplicity and had to do with referencing his "good fiend," Lynn "Bully boy" Johnson and addressed FG's  "form over substance" stances on everything. 
Phil Greenough Added Nov 26, 2017 - 2:23pm
Bill;
You don’t any logical sense.  If you have no happy customers, you wouldn’t make any money and there would be no year-end bonus.  I see nothing wrong with paying employees a bonus for a job well-done, which usually translates into happy customers. 
 
Eileen;
The balance you aim to seek is one in which the rich are penalized for making what you think to be too much money, for the benefit of those that aren’t making a lot of money.  It’s forced wealth redistribution and it’s highly anti-capitalistic.   It also makes no rational sense for the government to reward the unsuccessful for being unsuccessful. 
 
Jeff;
Nobody is deleting your comments.  Paranoid are we?
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Nov 26, 2017 - 3:01pm
Jeff:
"Well, well ol Fill Greenhole, the crypto fascist deleted my reply."
 
Good and more to come I hope. 
 
Phil:
" I see nothing wrong with paying employees a bonus for a job well-done, which usually translates into happy customers. "
 
Have to fully agree here as I was a recipient of several such boni. I was getting promoted while the leftist losers were whining about the need for some secretary or other lower rank employee having more brains and talent than the current CEO and they should be at the top. 
 
at Eileen  from Phil:
" It’s forced wealth redistribution and it’s highly anti-capitalistic.   It also makes no rational sense for the government to reward the unsuccessful for being unsuccessful." 
 
Doesn't this comment remind us all of Marx in 1848? Does this remind us of Obama and his phony 'alternative energy' gifts to his friends?
 
Very few can rise to the top in the capitalist pyramid, perhaps less than 1% of business employees. The left despise capitalism since it crushes their phony wealth-distribution nostrums and puts their enemies in power. They would tax us 100% if they could and put some yoyo in charge. 
Jeff Michka Added Nov 26, 2017 - 3:11pm
Fill Greenhole sez: Jeff;-Nobody is deleting your comments.  Paranoid are we-Liar, are we, ol Fill?
Jeff Michka Added Nov 26, 2017 - 3:13pm
Filled Greenhole sez: Doesn't this comment remind us all of Marx in 1848? Does this remind us of Obama and his phony 'alternative energy' gifts to his friends?-Nope,  so why don't you tell us, Filled?
Lynn Johnson Added Nov 26, 2017 - 5:13pm
Phil, if you're not deleting the Mitchka's comments... you should; as a service to your readers. Just ask yourself each time you see a Mitchka comment "What value does this add to the discussion"?
 
I would encourage everybody to remove any Mitchka comment that is abusive, vulgar, or lacks coherence/relevance. Granted, that would pretty well cover 90% of what the little troll has to say.
 
"Be off with you, you lair, Filled, crypto fascist, anti-left, bully boy!" screamed the Mitchka (troll). He then threw some poo (his version of a comment) at the poor Billy Goat Gruff (Phil) to really make his point.
Eileen de Bruin Added Nov 27, 2017 - 5:37am
Phil. and Lynn. all commentary here, from all participants is useful. It is funny or illuminating or highly contributory to finding out that which we endeavour to discuss!
 
Phil, I do believe that your own obsession with the capitalism for the one per cent ...as it is now... is blinding you to anything at all, never mind whether it be climate change or pies in skies.
 
There is a good old Yorkshire saying that applies to you:
 
Do you know what “thought” did?
He followed a mud cart and thought it was a wedding.
 
 
 
Eileen de Bruin Added Nov 27, 2017 - 6:46am
Good morning Phil, this is one of the headlines in this morning's Guardian on line:
"American leaders should read their official climate science report
The United States Global Change Research Program report paints a bleak picture of the consequences of climate denial.."
 
Check it out and remember that it is their own report.
Phil Greenough Added Nov 27, 2017 - 12:54pm
Eileen;
With the exception of Michka, who I either can’t understand or seems mostly interested in disrupting this conversation, I agree.  I take offense to your characterization of my thoughts about capitalism as an “obsession.”  I also disagree completely with the notion it’s a system that only benefits the one percent.  Only a socialist would make statements like that.  
 
Regarding the United State Global Change Research Program report, I’ve never heard of the report before.  So I did some research and I have the following comments:
 
1) Do believe everything the government tell you?
2) Science is not a matter of consensus opinion. 
3) There is a figure in the report showing that heat waves are no more frequent today than in 1900.
4) The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration recently stated that it has been unable to detect any human impact on hurricanes.  This contradicts what was asserted in the report by the same agency. 
5) Most of the points highlighted above came from this excellent article: A Deceptive New Report on Climate
Eileen de Bruin Added Nov 27, 2017 - 1:30pm
Phil,
 
on clicking on your link, I may not read beyond the first paragraph without paying to subscribe.  The report you mention is published in the Wall Street Journal.  Its owner is one of the most deceptive people on the planet - Murdoch. 
 
The family who used to own the WSJ were horrified that they had sold out to him (via Dow Jones). Note the quotation here below and your link to read the full article without having to pay.  Further more, I do wonder at your research capabilities if you would actually accredit this article with any credence given its owner who is an outright controller of government ministers and has served the public very badly by feeding their minds with lies and hate, all for his own ends - whereby the most raging type of capitalism is the only way.  He did a deal with Blair in the nineties (in order to support the Iraqi war and he did a deal with Cameron more recently).
 
"A number of key members of the family that controlled the Wall Street Journal say they would not have agreed to sell the prestigious daily to Rupert Murdoch if they had been aware of News International's conduct in the phone-hacking scandal at the time of the deal.
"If I had known what I know now, I would have pushed harder against" the Murdoch bid, said Christopher Bancroft, a member of the family that controlled Dow Jones & Company, publishers of the Wall Street Journal.
Bancroft said the breadth of allegations now on the public record "would have been more problematic for me. I probably would have held out.'' He had sole voting control of a trust that represented 13% of Dow Jones shares in 2007 and served on the Dow Jones board.

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Lisa Steele, another family member on the board, said "it would have been harder, if not impossible'' to have accepted Murdoch's bid had the facts been known. "It's complicated," she added, and "there were so many factors" in weighing a sale. But she said: "The ethics are clear to me – what's been revealed, from what I've read in the Journal, is terrible. It may even be criminal."
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2011/jul/13/wall-st-journal-murdoch-bancroft
 
I would suggest, Phil, that your obsession is completely skewing any kind of balanced view at all.
 
Now, my question to you is do you believe everything in the WSJ and/or everything that the government tells you?
 
And would you ever believe Rupert Murdoch has ethical or worthy motives on any kind of scale?
 
 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Nov 27, 2017 - 3:00pm
Lynn Johnson,
 
"Just ask yourself each time you see a Mitchka comment "What value does this add to the discussion"?"
 
I suggest no value other than to assault writers who share opposite political views. In decent chat rooms he would be banned for life. 
Phil Greenough Added Nov 27, 2017 - 4:18pm
Eileen;
The Wall Street Journal is the second biggest newspaper in the United States and third biggest in the world.  Accordingly, I wouldn’t dismiss what its journalists have to say on account of you not liking Murdoch. As for Murdoch, he is honorable man and should be remembered fondly as having provided the world with an alternative view point to the liberal one coming from every other major newspaper.   I think that’s your problem, rather than close your mind to alternative thought, you should open your mind to it. 
 
I would suggest that your obsession with socialism is completely skewing any kind of balanced view at all.  Do you believe everything you read in the New York Times?  Sound familiar?  Look, you want to start slinging insults and acting like Michka, I will find other people to communicate with. 
Jeff Michka Added Nov 27, 2017 - 6:07pm
Lynn "Bully boy" Johnson, after beating his wife and kids, come in a bullies ol Fill, who collapses like a stack of marked, cheap playing cards: Phil, if you're not deleting the Mitchka's comments... you should-ANDI would encourage everybody to remove any Mitchka comment that would pretty well cover 90% of what the little troll has to say.-Everyone better do what Bully Lynn tells you to do, or he won't be "you good fiend" anymore.  Thanks for showing the Bullying, Lynn boy.  Did your wife's nose finally get broken? Once again, rightist tone cops want to run things here, regardless of how lame they sound or how little they know.
Jeff Michka Added Nov 27, 2017 - 6:08pm
Well, well ol Fill Greenhole, the crypto fascist deleted my reply like he was told to do. Figures, since it addressed his duplicity and had to do with referencing his "good fiend," Lynn "Bully boy" Johnson and addressed FG's "form over substance" stances on everything.
Jeff Michka Added Nov 27, 2017 - 6:09pm
Filled Greenhole sez: Doesn't this comment remind us all of Marx in 1848? Does this remind us of Obama and his phony 'alternative energy' gifts to his friends?-Nope, so why don't you tell us, Filled?
Eileen de Bruin Added Nov 28, 2017 - 2:47am
Phil, touchee.  But, wherein lies the bridge? Murdoch is a criminally motivated guardian of the news, sadly, and his works on earth are being felt steadily and much more profoundly than a decade ago, due to stealth. Of course journalists on some papers are worth reading, anyway, but the overall view point filtering out is Murdoch’s brand of politicking.
 
I ask you, what do you think about the pay wall even to readmthe article that youndirected me towards? And did you read any other article around this issue?
 
Whilst I agree that any political obsession will skew any balanced view I am seriously unable to label myself either as a socialist or an English Liberal, but I am not, indeed not, a Conservative.  I believe in change, not conservation of archaic notions of serfdom.
 
What I am sure about though is that we will all believe what we wish to believe, which means that we are driven by notions other than balance, don’t you think?
 
If I look at President Trump and PM May, it is neither heart warming nor giving any hope of universal development or aspirations, no! Neither has anything to offer of themselves to the world, no ideals, no framework, just the continued war game and its industries. I would like to aspire to higher things than this.
Wouldn’t you?
Shane Laing Added Nov 28, 2017 - 2:47am
Wonder what cars the leaders of the NAACP drive? Are they driving a Prius doing their bit for climate change? I'm guessing not.
Phil Greenough Added Nov 28, 2017 - 5:57am
Eileen;
I know this may come as a shock to someone that has been brainwashed into thinking conservative thought is evil, but Murdock is not a criminal.  He happens to be one of my personal heroes.  If you wish to stay uninformed, that’s your choice.  I consider myself very informed because I haven’t excluded news and opinion I disagree with.
 
Your first question is nonsensical and your second question has been answered above.
 
I get the fact you don’t label yourself a socialist.  However, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that a capitalist like myself and you are having such a heated disagreement.  Your own words out you as a socialist even if you won’t admit to being one.  Oh and by the way, I don’t believe in archaic notions of serfdom either. 
 
I don’t know enough about May and British politics to comment intelligently.  As for Trump, if it wasn’t for Democrat obstruction, he would accomplish a lot as he is a man of many worthy ideals.  Oh and by the way, war is not a game.
 
Shane;
Not that Priuses will do anything for climate change, their owners have a high propensity to be upper middle-class liberals.  In addition, while I don’t know any personally, I imagine the leaders of the NAACP are upper middle-class liberals.  So the math suggests they are more likely to drive a Prius than the Average Joe. 
Eileen de Bruin Added Nov 28, 2017 - 6:42am
Phil, but you have missed the bridge question.  And it is not non sensical.
 
That said, tell me why I should change my perceptions about Murdoch.  Let's do a test:  I agree to open my mind to this man (whilst having seen what he did to politics in the UK in 1997 onwards) and you point me in the direction.
 
The thing is, that you choose to believe certain reports on environmental impact and/or climate change and I choose to believe other reports.  Which of those reports are without bias?  
 
I am more interested in your discussing Murdoch than the latter paragraph at this juncture.
Phil Greenough Added Nov 28, 2017 - 9:29am
Eileen;
I don’t follow the bridge question.  The question that was nonsensical was this one “I ask you, what do you think about the pay wall even to readmthe article that youndirected me towards?”
 
Your perception about Murdoch is irrelevant.  The WSJ is highly regarded newspaper with millions of subscribers.  Its reporters and editors are critically acclaimed and independent thinkers.  Murdock is not even listed at the top of the WSJ’s management team.
 
I completely agree that there is bias in journalism.  The environmental report you asked me to look into is an example of bias in government.  Thanks to the Journal’s excellent article, I’m aware of some of that bias. 
Mike Haluska Added Nov 28, 2017 - 10:11am
Eileen - your comment/question:
 
"The thing is, that you choose to believe certain reports on environmental impact and/or climate change and I choose to believe other reports.  Which of those reports are without bias?"
 
illustrates the fundamental problem with people using non scientifically legitimate means to evaluate a proposed "theory".  First of all, NONE of the AGW reports use Scientific Method and NONE of them has ever produced solid evidence of causality of AGW and verifiable experiments that are reproducible and agree with reality.
 
"Bias" is IRRELEVANT in a scientific paper - only the above matters.  Fancy graphs of 2 variables, computer models, comparison of historical data to model algorithms are inconclusive at best and terrible science at worst. 
  
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Nov 28, 2017 - 11:14am
Eileen
 
"The thing is, that you choose to believe certain reports on environmental impact and/or climate change and I choose to believe other reports.  Which of those reports are without bias? "
 
Consider that many groups have embraced such things as Phil Jones and Mike Mann's charts and still pay reverence to Rachel Carson's book that reversed a scientific finding to suit her politics. 
 
So, I put the same question to you:  Which of those reports are without bias? "
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Nov 28, 2017 - 11:17am
Phil:
 
I know this may come as a shock to someone that has been brainwashed into thinking conservative thought is evil, but Murdock is not a criminal. 
 
But Soros is a criminal.  So, we would believe the criminal over someone else? Murdock is guilty of antagonizing the leftists and progressives, which is not a crime but a response to yellow journalism and political activism. 
Eileen de Bruin Added Nov 28, 2017 - 3:53pm
Mike and rycK, everything has bias. Totally objective presentations of evidence is impossible. Someone can begin with an end result and work backwards to find the evidence to support it.
 
I read around and look at planet earth type documentaries such as Attenborough's narrated ones. Wonderful stuff is all of this.
 
Phil:the bridge. I am not now surprised that you do not understand its implication.  Oh yeah Wall Street, yep, their methods crippled many good folk in the US with the sub prime theft and brought the world to its knees.  But who cares?  The WSJ has the most critically acclaimed writers. And Murdoch isn’t too fussed about ordinary, kind, honest folk just contributing to a whole society and loving life without being consumed by the attainment of money.
 
Murdoch is the walking embodiment of the portrait of Dorian Grey.  
 
As dear old Oscar said:A fool is a fool. And an educated fool is still a fool.
 
Jeff Michka Added Nov 28, 2017 - 6:09pm
Shane Laing asks: Wonder what cars the leaders of the NAACP drive? Are they driving a Prius doing their bit for climate change? I'm guessing not. -Hey, Shane I know you're UK, but do you really mean "the leaders of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People OR NASCAR, National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing?  If the former, we'll have to ask, if the latter, I doubt they drive a Prius. :-)
Bill H. Added Nov 28, 2017 - 10:32pm
Bias is a term meant to indicate "inclination or prejudice for or against one person or group, especially in a way considered to be unfair".
In electronics it means "an offset required for proper operation of an electronic component".
I will go with the electronic definition, as it seems to relate to logic.
If a component (or human) is biased for maximum present-time output, this relates to a "live for today, screw tomorrow" mode of operation.
If a component (or human) is biased for moderate long-term operation, this related to a "live for long-term" mode of operation.
Compare the guy down the street who drives the 450 ci Corvette with the other neighbor who drives the Prius, and think about what their priorities are.
I'm not saying either one is wrong or right, but can you understand the mindset?
Phil Greenough Added Nov 29, 2017 - 8:49am
rycK the JFK Democrat;
I agree.  By the way, what’s a JFK Democrat?
 
Eileen;
I see, the bridge is the connection between the Wall Street Journal and the Great Recession, which you think was caused by Wall Street.  I know this may come as a shock, but I don’t blame Wall Street one iota for the Great Recession.  Let’s keep in mind, if borrowers had honored their end of the written contract, there never would have been a Great Recession. 
 
Everything I just wrote and what you wrote, has nothing to do with the subject at hand.  You’re trying to discredit the WSJ on account of the fact you don’t like its founder and now because they have the term “Wall Street” in its title.  These are silly reasons to discredit any paper, especially one that’s so widely read and representative of the other side of the political aisle.  Again, it would behoove you to open your mind to conservative thought and then decide to be a liberal, versus being an ignorant liberal. 
 
Bill;
Not sure why you feel the need to defined bias.  As for bias, I couldn’t agree more, political bias is always rearing its ugly head.  It’s even evident in the cars we drive. 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Nov 29, 2017 - 10:00am
From Phil G.
 
"rycK the JFK Democrat;
I agree.  By the way, what’s a JFK Democrat?"
 
 I was devoted to JFK and his programs in high school, too young to vote for him. I later refused to vote for LBJ and all Democrats that came later. So, a JFK Democrat never votes for Democrats. 
 
rycK
Jeff Michka Added Nov 29, 2017 - 2:27pm
Syck ryck, the Barry Goldwater Republican tries to snow Fill Greenhole: I was devoted to JFK and his programs in high school, too young to vote for him.-Right, sure...So what got you into being a cryptofascist then?  The Grassy Knoll?
Eileen de Bruin Added Nov 29, 2017 - 4:20pm
rycK, that makes sense then! Co temporary “democrats”are not the democrats.
 
For those of you actually think for yourselves and are curious about "Consensus Science" and "Eugenics"
Going back a bit... Mike H:  consensus “science”is the point, you choose the outcome and work backwards.
 
If I knew what a Liberal really was in US terms, I might be able to defend myself.  In UK terms the Liberal Party was a great one to move forward into the modern world. But Rupert M. and his bully boys inckuding the critically acclaimed writers, destroyed every last little iota of them.
 
 
 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Nov 29, 2017 - 9:59pm
Eileen
 
"rycK, that makes sense then! Co temporary “democrats”are not the democrats."
 
I voted for Perot and Trump, not Republicans in the real sense. 
 
I know what a really is in US terms and they are not suitable for office. 
Eileen de Bruin Added Nov 30, 2017 - 5:00am
Phil, Why would the National Association for the Advancement of Coloured People want to be on the climate change band wagon anyway?
Perhaps it is a little like products from Nestle or whomever, using Walt Disney characters to sell their wares. To kids, for example, being sold a box full of sugar like corn flakes encrusted with sugar(diabetes creating at an early age) and using whichever story character makes them reach out their little hands for it.  The F.d.a does little to control the likes of Coke, McD and on and on and on.  So what is the difference? I see none.
 
Ryck, my word was contemporary, as in current politics. You are right, the democrats do not exist any more. Neither does Labour nor Liberal over in the UK. In fact the moderate conservatives have long gone too.
 
 
 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Nov 30, 2017 - 11:52am
Eileen'
 
"Ryck, my word was contemporary, as in current politics. You are right, the democrats do not exist any more. Neither does Labour nor Liberal over in the UK. In fact the moderate conservatives have long gone too"
 
We have a changing world where we are in massive debt [$20 T that we know of plus the Fed and Fannie and Freddie and Sally] and need to do something to cure that and grow the economy. Both major parties have local and personal goals to attain that, in most cases, do not benefit any other than politicians. That is the definition of a swamp and it needs to be drained. 
 
BTW, the NAACP will be the recipient of funds from left-wing 'taxes' on carbon and other variants if passed. The Zero Sum Rule states that we have stolen their future and most of their past and we need to equalize this inequity with money. This is just sleazy politics as usual as Climate Change is a lie. 
Phil Greenough Added Nov 30, 2017 - 1:23pm
rycK;
I think there are plenty more JFK Democrats that remain loyal to whomever the party endorses.  Accordingly, a JFK Democrat (albeit not you) votes for Democrats. 
 
Eileen;
I answered your question in my article.  As for the rest of your comment, I have no idea what parallel / difference you’re talking about.  In light of the fact you dodged my last reply, I don’t have much interest in deciphering what you have to say. 
Eileen de Bruin Added Nov 30, 2017 - 1:38pm
Phil:  the bridge - no you missed its subtlety and there is no point going any further on that (a bridge too far!).
 
As for your: Let’s keep in mind, if borrowers had honored their end of the written contract, there never would have been a Great Recession. 
Yep. Absolutely. But what about the way that these second mortgages were peddled across the press; the way that the implication was no risk at all, that money could only make more money?  The selling programme was scandalously over sold to people who were duped and who, perhaps yes, didn't pore over the oh, so painful details. 
 
As for dodging your replies, it is not like that. You do not need to decipher my commentary! The comment you've added on the borrowers totally and callously ignores the true operators in that game.  Therefore, in light of your own stance, why would I continue to try to defend the indefensible?  Well, I am doing that now anyway, but you might take offence, might you? 
 
Now, back to NAACP and its methods:  how does it compare with selling the food wares, using another medium of excitement and interest to children or adults?  That is ok is it, but what the NAACP does (and I have no idea if I agree with their cause or not) is not.
Why?
Phil Greenough Added Nov 30, 2017 - 2:53pm
Eileen;
I finally got the bridge reference and responded accordingly.
 
While second mortgages were an issue, the main problem was first mortgages to bad credit borrowers.  From the banks to the borrowers to the government, nobody seemed to appreciate the risks.  Blaming the banks and only the banks, is the classic liberal response.  Those borrowers were just as scandalous if not more, as they were the one’s taking the banks money and then not paying them back.  To get the money the did all sorts of scandalous things like lie about their income and hire compromised appraisers.  In short, I don’t think anyone was duped, they all did this under their own free will. 
 
NAACP mission is to be an advocate for people of color.  Global warming, whether you believe it to be true or not, is not a black issue.  Accordingly, the NAACP has no business issuing any opinion on the matter.  The mission for a food producer is to sell more food.  If that means employing the help of comic book characters, so be it.  
Jeff Michka Added Nov 30, 2017 - 6:36pm
Fill Greenhole exclaims: NAACP mission is to be an advocate for people of color-Warming, rightists, "those people" have been mentioned, better get busy with the hate replies and slurs-Imagine a really stupid group represented bt some here: NAAOSWP. National Association for the Advancement of Stupid White People. Cartoonish Fill is running for the presidency of NAAOSWP, you bet'cha...
Eileen de Bruin Added Dec 1, 2017 - 2:58am
Phil, yep, always we should be responsible for debt to be managed responsibly. Given the financial deregulation, however, that enabled financial industry men, mainly, to make as much money as they could without parameters of any kind including morals, good economic control or wider perspectives for the overall healthy economy for the people whose country/ies it is, then it was a disaster in creation.
 
Thes men were criminals and they walked away. If you have a project to build a house and you are given a budget, but you only objective is to make as much money for yourself as possible, then the delivered house might lack windows, fire security, quality walls and have terrible plumbing. If there are no regulations to make you bear in mind and deliver basic standards, then you will do as you like.
 
The role of good government is to bear in mind the good of the whole nation, but our contemporary governments have told the boys’ club in government, financial industry etc. that there are no rules and thry can do what they wish to make money even when it will impoverish many.
 
What are your values Phil? Anything goes? The mission is to trample all,over people in the name of freedom and capitalism.
Eileen de Bruin Added Dec 1, 2017 - 3:25am
Phil, if, as you write.
 
 The mission for a food producer is to sell more food. If that means employing the help of comic book characters, so be it.
 
Then the mission of the NAACP’s mission is to sell its values and if that means employing the help of popular causes, so be it.
Phil Greenough Added Dec 1, 2017 - 8:29am
Eileen;
Financial deregulation is not what caused this mess.  Even before Dodd-Frank, the financial services industry is one of the most regulated industries we have.  Again, you need to stop looking for scapegoats that fit in with your liberal agenda.  Recessions and expansions are natural events in the market, to the extent you need to blame someone, blame everyone. 
 
Your theories about profit and morals make no logical sense.  We all look to make as much money as we possibly can or save as much money as we possibly can.  I mean have you ever told your employer you’re being overly compensated or the cashier that your bill should be larger?  Of course not and I don’t fault you one iota for it.  The same is true for everyone in the real estate industry, from bankers to homebuilders to buyers, they should all be primarily concerned with themselves, that’s why capitalism works so well.  The moral thing to do is allow the invisible hand of the market to do work its magic. 
 
As for homebuilders that look to maximize profit by excluding windows, good luck selling one of those houses.  I bring this up to simply highlight how your opinions about business make no logical sense. 
 
The role of government should be to enforce the rule of law and be as invisible as possible.  Only liberals believe government can cause people to be morally responsible.  If anything we have too many rules and too much government intervention in what should be a free market economy. 
 
As for my values, I value freedom.  The trampling you see is usually caused by our government mucking up the free market. 
Mike Haluska Added Dec 4, 2017 - 4:47pm
Eileen - your claim:
 
"Someone can begin with an end result and work backwards to find the evidence to support it."
 
may be valid in sociology studies - NOT in legitimate science!  Legitimate scientists do NOT start with pre-determined conclusions - EVER! 
Mike Haluska Added Dec 4, 2017 - 4:49pm
Eileen - your statement:
 
"Totally objective presentations of evidence is impossible."
 
is also bogus.  I read objective science reports all the time - that's why it's called SCIENCE!
Eileen de Bruin Added Dec 5, 2017 - 2:10am
Mike,
 
total objectivity is not possible because science is a human discipline. 
 
A given result can be worked backwards and evidence found to "support" it with other evidence simply left out.  As in probability studies and in statistics..the hypotheses and the questions asked to the subjects of information source, can always be phrased and written in a certain way.
 
For example:  Hypothesis:  Everyone likes the colour pink.
 
Practical testing:  Ring one hundred people and ask them if they like the colour black.  (notes for researchers, if they say "no", then they automatically like the colour pink).
 
Result:  97 people said that they did not like the colour black.
 
Conclusion: hypothesis proven.
 
Ok, it is a dummy and daft example, but there it is.
 
There is no exact science. There is prejudice.
Mike Haluska Added Dec 5, 2017 - 10:26am
Eileen -
 
You must be a sociology major because that's the only discipline you're allowed to get away with such jibberish.  NO LEGITIMATE SCIENTIST WOULD SAY/DO:
 
- 97% of scientists agree that the Sun is 93 million miles from Earth
- Scientists didn't conduct a "poll" to come to a "consensus" that E=Mc2
- No Scientist would say that it is his "opinion" that water boils at 212F
 
And finally - proclaiming and actually believing:
                   "There is no exact science. There is prejudice."
opens the door for more bullshit like Eugenics and politicized science!  This is the reason I strongly advocate that liberal arts majors be kept the hell out of government positions relating to anything scientific, technical, statistical or mathematical!  You people decide on the "politically correct" conclusion and then bastardize science to falsely legitimize your socialist agenda.  For all of our good, you liberal arts majors should voluntarily confine your influence to the US Postal Service, National Parks, Bureau of Silly Walks, etc.     
Eileen de Bruin Added Dec 5, 2017 - 10:47am
Mike,
 
Liberal Arts, I love it!  And this has made me laugh out loud.  I know a "creationist" in the states - who is a precision engineer and he doesn't believe that the world is a sphere....
 
Yes, of course I know what you mean - I was using extreme sillies to make a point.
 
Science does change its view - we are now in the next paradigm are we not? Into Quantum physics??
 
The distinctions between liquid, gel and rock were, once, considered to be distinct by science and scientists.....but this view has changed in the past decade......
 
Bacterial and Viral studies are going much farther these days and it has now been discovered that the intestine has a nervous system as complex as the brain's.....genetics is in its infancy and more is being reappraised as the only constant - the only constant is constant review on what were previously determined as norms or facts.
 
I would advocate that you keep people with orange hair out of government positions as well as people who believe that using guns and making war is the right way to govern.
 
And  I think that your Postal Service, National Parks and the Bureau of Silly Walks is wonderful and, importantly, far less damaging than your lobbyists of poison pills, dreadful food and guns beyond measure.
 
Mike Haluska Added Dec 7, 2017 - 4:19pm
Eileen -
 
If nothing else you have a wonderful sense of humor.  This website is in dire need of more people like you.  You'll enjoy the link below:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZlBUglE6Hc
Mike Haluska Added Dec 7, 2017 - 4:21pm
Eileen -
 
We'd all be better off on this website if we had access to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y&list=RD9ZlBUglE6Hc
Mike Haluska Added Dec 7, 2017 - 4:27pm
Eileen -
 
My original inspiration for becoming an engineer:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U01xasUtlvw&list=RD9ZlBUglE6Hc&index=5
Eileen de Bruin Added Dec 8, 2017 - 2:07am
Ok, Mike, I shall take a look, thanks!
Good thread, and we really shouldn’t take ourselves too seriously eh? We are fallible humans.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Dec 8, 2017 - 11:38am
Mike and Eileen:
 
"My original inspiration for becoming an engineer:"
 
I always wanted to be an electrical engineer from UCLA and was a junior when some drunk in Washington, DC drafted me and sent me to Viet Nam. 
 
I switched to Chemistry after that.........
Eileen de Bruin Added Dec 10, 2017 - 6:02am
I feally do think that this thread deserves to read this result from your very own Yale University and The Washington Post. It isn’t about climate change, as such, and this thread isn’t about climate change, as such; it is about how we are being manipulated to think what the powers that be wish us to......
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2017/11/22/at-yale-we-conducted-an-experiment-to-turn-conservatives-into-liberals-the-results-say-a-lot-about-our-political-divisions/?tid=ss_fb-bottom&utm_term=.a60695cbeb83
 
This was in controlled test circumastances....
Eileen de Bruin Added Dec 10, 2017 - 6:14am
rycK and Mike, yes,! Monty Pythons....never yet beaten methinks eh?
 
rycK shame about ‘nam for you, but you did what you had to do.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Dec 10, 2017 - 1:52pm
Phil,,
 
"Even before Dodd-Frank, the financial services industry is one of the most regulated industries we have. "
 
Glass-Steagall;  was proposed after the 29 Depression in 1933, but would not have prevented that event as people has a 20X leverage on buying stocks and that is called cheap credit. The market dove and margin calls to make up the difference did not work as people did not have the money. Then, bank runs started and the banks went down 
 
Glass-Steagall could not have prevented 2009. Falling house prices alone cost the economy some $8-12 trillion dollars in lost assets. Excessive speculation by Bear-Stearns and Lehman, London Office contributed. 
 
Cheap credit in the form of sub-prime loans pumped up the housing market and when it fell many could not service their mortgages and walked away leaving the banks with heavy loses. 
 
If you loan money to people who cannot pay it back [1929,
2006-2009] then somebody will lose and most of our banks failed.
 
"The law worked exactly as intended. In 1999, Democrats led by President Bill Clinton and Republicans led by Sen. Phil Gramm joined forces to repeal Glass-Steagall at the behest of the big banks.Aug 27, 2012"--https://www.google.com/search?
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Dec 10, 2017 - 1:54pm
Eileen,
 
"rycK shame about ‘nam for you, but you did what you had to do."
 
I was drafted by LBJ in 1964 and had little choice but I also remember Khrushchev pound his shoe on the podium at the UN and promising to bury me. So, I have no regrets about smashing Communists. 
 
jmnsho 
Eileen de Bruin Added Dec 11, 2017 - 11:03am
The law worked exactly as intended. In 1999, Democrats led by President Bill Clinton and Republicans led by Sen. Phil Gramm joined forces to repeal Glass-Steagall at the behest of the big banks.Aug 27, 2012"--
 
Phil, what rycK has posted above, really is highly significant don’t you think?  Financial deregulation is not appropriate sensible government, and the big banks’ drivers were neither hinourable nor sustainable.
 
If we do not need to make rules,  but let stark market forces rule, then why bother with road markings and traffic control? It is the same, sane and balanced approach to help people manage in their world and good government is about this.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Dec 11, 2017 - 3:16pm
Eileen,
 
" Financial deregulation is not appropriate sensible government, and the big banks’ drivers were neither hinourable nor sustainable."
 
A certain level of government regulation of banks and other financial units is mandatory. But, the  notion that something as simple as Glass-Steagall could stop a depression is a joke. 
 
"If we do not need to make rules,  but let stark market forces rule, then why bother with road markings and traffic control?"
 
A nonsense comparison. Market forces determine prices and supply schedules now as they have for 5000 years. The nostrum that government can set prices and make economic advances in the economy is a sick joke. Who should make such rules anyway? Leftist politicos??
 
"It is the same, sane and balanced approach to help people manage in their world and good government is about this."
 
What 'good' government is that? Obama? 
 
What we need now is what President Trump is advocating: 
 
[1] cut government down several sizes.
[2] eliminate the deficit as we got nothing from Obama's $10 Trillion  dollar debt fiasco. 
[3] get government out of the business arena. 
[4] put up a fence to keep terrorists and other criminals out of our country. 
 
Cut anything that is from progressive notions and we will be well. 
Eileen de Bruin Added Dec 12, 2017 - 8:14am
rycK, I see. Keep building the walls then...
 
This is Phil’s thread and it seems he has abandoned it anyway.
 
Silence is golden. Silence speaks volumes.

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