Some Common Sense About Guns

As for myself, and probably every typical legal gun owner, we don't have a problem with the steps needed to purchase fire arms registered and legal. No one cares about a waiting period or what ever depending on what state you live in and such. The only one who would have a problem with that is someone who isn't going to pass the check or what ever.

 

The over whelming majority of violent crimes involving firearms are carried out by felons and such with stolen or illegally obtained guns. When political drama turns to flat out lying or ignorance pointing to legal gun owners being the problem it gets old.

 

What I'm pointing out is I don't know what the answer is to gun violence that plagues our various cities, but I can say gun laws aren't going to fix or hinder that, criminals just don't give a crap about the law, or other people's rights for that matter. They are just criminal that way.

 

The gun fetish in america has more to do with Hollywood and the media, music industry and such. For your typical gun owner, all that crap doesn't come into play and we don't even think about it in such a way. A weapon is used to fill dear tags and such at hunting season, blah blah. Most of us don't run around with a holster under our jacket on our way to pay the utility bill.

 

All that other crap is on the current culture which is just a fantasy to sell a product, and it asn't a gun, its a record, movie, T-shirt, whatever. Not much different then the obsession with selling sexual 
drama in the movie world and we see how that has worked out.

Comments

The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 7, 2017 - 8:19am
Most of our mass shootings occur in places where guns are at least in theory "strictly controlled". At least as a point of law. Curious, isn't it?
Dave Volek Added Dec 7, 2017 - 8:26am
Carl
You are one of the few vocal gun owners I have heard say this:
 
As for myself, and probably every typical legal gun owner, we don't have a problem with the steps needed to purchase fire arms registered and legal. No one cares about a waiting period or what ever depending on what state you live in and such. The only one who would have a problem with that is someone who isn't going to pass the check or what ever.
 
I say "vocal" because I believe that there are a lot of you out there, yet all we non-gunners owners hear about are the gun people who don't won't any restrictions. They want the right to walk into a gun store and buy whatever gun and ammunition they want.
 
 
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 7, 2017 - 8:29am
Dave - Another case of the loudest voice in any chorus is the one that gets noticed
Billy Roper Added Dec 7, 2017 - 8:30am
Here are the Constitutional restrictions on firearm ownership: "shall not be infringed". That's too difficult for hoplophobes to understand, I guess.
opher goodwin Added Dec 7, 2017 - 8:38am
Carl - sound common sense.
opher goodwin Added Dec 7, 2017 - 8:40am
Billy - what is written hundreds of years ago, pertaining to a different age, a different culture and different circumstances, can be rewritten, updated and made to work better in the present day setting. Nothing is, or should be, written in stone.
Ben McCargo Added Dec 7, 2017 - 8:41am
To Carl, I remember an old Hustler comic strip.  A guy walks into a gun shop wanting to purchase but the owner tells him it's a waiting period.  The guy gets all apoplectic, cursing and shit saying, "I can't wait, that son-of-a bitch can't wait, I gotta get that..." and then he caught himself and said, 'OK, the wait will be fine,,,"  Funny as all hell.  But you're right; correct the problems in the system.  Gun owners will abide. 
Dr. Rupert Green Added Dec 7, 2017 - 9:08am
It is a bit suspicious to walk into a store and purchase an AK47 if you were just fired. When one is fired, lost a custody case, or was just beaten down, are all that record instantaneously available to a gun seller? If a fire arm is urgently needed, one can go to Walmart. Yes criminals do not give a hoot about laws, s/he will get a gun. Its the law abiding citizens who are given hell to get a permit. Then again, laws are not generated by the doings of good boys, they are for the bad ones.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Dec 7, 2017 - 10:49am
what is written hundreds of years ago, pertaining to a different age, a different culture and different circumstances, can be rewritten, updated and made to work better in the present day setting.
 
You sound like George W Bush!!! Who when asked by a reporter if something he just signed was constitutional GWB replied: "Why do you keep throwing the constitution in my face its just an old piece of paper". This from the guy who swore an oath to protect and defend that old piece of paper. 
 
HRH Headmaster Opher = Dubya. 
 
Who'd a thunk it!
 
Jeffry Gilbert Added Dec 7, 2017 - 10:50am
"shall not be infringed"
 
Damn Skippy!
 
Jeffry Gilbert Added Dec 7, 2017 - 10:53am
You have a government that won't be held to its side of the bargain or contract - the constitution since the 1939 "decision" US v. Miller. A criminal act.
Dave Volek Added Dec 7, 2017 - 11:41am
NEWSFLASH FOR BILLY
 
The British aren't going to invade and retake one of the 13 colonies.
 
The slaves aren't going to revolt and hijack a ship to take them back to Africa
 
The reasons for freedom of firearms in the constitution are long gone.
 
 
Jeffry Gilbert Added Dec 7, 2017 - 12:57pm
 
The reasons for freedom of firearms in the constitution are long gone.
 
Not by a long shot. 
Dr. Rupert Green Added Dec 7, 2017 - 4:42pm
Rise of the planet of the apes gives a warning.
Edgeucation Newmedia Added Dec 8, 2017 - 11:40am
Although it is true that most gun violence is caused by felons, it is also true that many of the mass shooters were not felons before they committed the mass shootings. "In a land where nutbirds have a legal right to a gun, mass shootings shall continue." ---The Outhouse Prophet
Lynn Johnson Added Dec 8, 2017 - 9:26pm
Carl, very nice post... good to see another gun owner in the mix...
 
Dave >> gun people don't won't any restrictions.
 
As a gun owner, I would say that I do support some of the restrictions that exist today; but believe we must remain eternally vigilant against those who's ultimate goal is to disarm us.
 
Support:
The background checks are good (when the bureaucrats actually do their job).
 
The restrictions no felons and mentally ill are good.
 
Oppose:
Scary looking gun bans
 
Any database of guns or gun owners
 
Opher >> what is written hundreds of years ago, pertaining to a different age, a different culture and different circumstances, can be rewritten
 
And to those (in the U.S.) who would do so I say knock yourself out.  There is an amendment process.  Of course, they would have done it long ago if they had the votes/support of the people.  They don't...  We're down, but not out yet.
 
Dave >> The British aren't going to invade and retake one of the 13 colonies.
 
Dam straight!  Who would want another ass-whooopin’ like that! :)
 
Dave >> The reasons for freedom of firearms in the constitution are long gone... Response Jeffrey >> Not by a long shot.
 
Amen Jeffrey.  That day will have arrived when tyranny is a distant memory.  In other words,... never.
 
Doug Plumb Added Dec 9, 2017 - 5:12am
Its funny that people think guns will keep you safe from government. The Bolsheviks picked up the gun owners at the grocery stores or on their way to work.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Dec 9, 2017 - 5:34am
Its funny that people think guns will keep you safe from government.
 
Funny? No.
 
What is funny are people who mistakenly believe we want safety. Government is by nature unsafe to freedom loving people everywhere. We know it deep in our being.
 
The second amendment is intended to guarantee the remaining nine amendments in the bill of rights. 
 
Don't like guns? Don't own one. Don't tell others they can't. We won't tell you not to put your favorite dildo in your ass. 
 
Freedom. Its a wonderful thing.
John Minehan Added Dec 9, 2017 - 8:19am
Couple of thoughts:
 
---A few of my friends are police.  A common opinion is that gun control works, mostly because fewer legal guns mean fewer STOLEN legal guns to become ILLEGAL guns.
 
---I spent a bit more than a year stationed in southern Arizona in the late 80s.  Arizona was an open carry state.  You would be amazed how many people came to the local Circle K convenience store/gas station strapped.  Of course, that area crawls (literally) with Rattle Snakes and most of these people looked like ranchers . . . . 
 
--- "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
 
---At the time that the Bill of Rights was ratified, the US Constitution ONLY bound the Federal Government. 
 
---The Militia of the various states were regulated by the states in accordance with rules established by Congress.  Further, even today, there are two types of "Militia:" 1) Organized (Army and Air National Guard and US Army, Navy, Air Force Reserves (in Units and in the IRR); and 2) Unorganized Militia (under most state military laws, all men between 18 and 45 who are not on Active Duty or a member of the Organized Reserves). 
 
---Based on the Heller decision, the States traditionally regulated the militia (in part) by not allowing the insane, criminals and the mentally defective from owning guns.  See District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. rel="nofollow">570 (2008).
 
---Based on all of this, I think you can make a sound argument that State gun control laws are constitutional, but Federal ones are not.
 
---However, at this point, such a finding would cause too much disruption in the orderly administration of justice and would never happen.
Even A Broken Clock Added Dec 9, 2017 - 11:16am
I would bet that if the techniques of big data are used, the on-line postings of people could be mined to come up with a database of gun ownership, with probably 80-90% correlation. Think about that if you are concerned with national registries.
Jeff Michka Added Dec 9, 2017 - 11:38am
Dave Volek sez: NEWSFLASH FOR BILLY
The British aren't going to invade and retake one of the 13 colonies.-No, but Billy might need to shoot people in wheelchairs (Tell 'em why, Billy the Nazi) or "defend" himself from cops and soldiers when he tries to start a civil war...you know, commit treason, which he openly advocates.  Looking forward to his "armed last stand." It will only take a few minutes... LOL.
wsucram15 Added Dec 9, 2017 - 11:49am
Lynn..I finally agree with you except for the data base. As a gun owner (and Extremely private person) I have no problem being part of a registry of that kind.  I feel as a responsible gun owner that  It will make the other idiots "that do have to register" Slightly more responsible with their firearms.
I have seen some stupid things from people who own guns, to the point where I actually think there should be a list of who cant own a gun. Which should include; the documented mentally ill (mostly for suicide but for other reasons as well), Felons are criminals but yes they should not be able to own a legal firearm AND if caught with one there should be a minimum felony sentence just for the firearm.
 
Also a little girl was shot and killed while people licensed shot of their firearms for the 4th of july.  If this was a once in a lifetime thing..sure.  But its not.
Stupid people should not be permitted to EVER OWN ANY TYPE OF GUN.  I dont know how you would make such a list except prior stupidity or that you need training BEFORE you buy a gun, during the check.   Something. IDK..
 
I grew up with guns...so it was an ongoing thing. Its like growing up near the ocean or in the city.  You learn a respect for these things other people just dont have.
It would make the world safer if people just understood that a gun is not a toy.
Lynn Johnson Added Dec 9, 2017 - 12:02pm
wsucram15 >> I finally agree with you except for the data base. 
 
From your description... I don't know if we're talking about the same thing in reference to a "database".  I'm talking about a government (federal, state, local) of gun owners.  It would be the precursor to confiscation and IS currently illegal.
 
The database of those who cannot legally own a gun already exists (and I'm OK with that).  Entries in that database is comprised mostly of felons and the mentally ill.  Without it the background check would be impossible.
 
When you get to the point of legislating "stupid" people not having certain rights... who decides stupid.  I think the current definition of certain crimes and mental state is sufficient for gun ownership.
 
If shooting guns in the air on hoidays is a bad problem... make it a felony and prosecute.
 
On the same thought, I don't think stupid people should be allowed to vote... so long as I'm the guy defining stupid.
 
Lynn Johnson Added Dec 9, 2017 - 12:03pm
>> Think about that if you are concerned with national registries.
 
Granted... but the issue with the database isn't just about who... but how many.
Lynn Johnson Added Dec 9, 2017 - 12:05pm
On a side note... how about this for a law.
 
Every non-gun owner in the nation should have to put up prominent sign (in the yard or window) stating "This is a gun free home."
 
John Minehan Added Dec 9, 2017 - 12:11pm
Part of the issue is cultural.
 
Too much Sand Bar Fight and Gunfight at the OK Corral, too little Lexington & Concord.
 
 
wsucram15 Added Dec 9, 2017 - 12:35pm
I do think we need a central data base of guns owned by each person, where purchased and if transferred.
Right now all of this is on paper, it needs to be computerized. 
I understand your fears, I have that concern as well...I wont even register with the Federal government on voting in a central registry so it is a concern.
I just want something ( a registry) that makes it quicker to go state to state on something like the background checks and criminal behavior of someone involved in a gun crime.   There has to be some sort of computerized database.
I dont mind that...
 
Now with regard to "stupid"-"having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense." is the definition...
I think anyone that is not trained and shows idiocy with a gun should not be allowed to own one.  They are not toys.  I figured you would disagree but Ive grown up with guns and take care of mine.  I have respect for even the perceived power of such an item.
 
As far as voting..same thing applies, but voting does not directly kill ppl...argumentative, yes, but it is indirect.
 
 
 
Lynn Johnson Added Dec 9, 2017 - 1:03pm
>> I do think we need a central data base of guns owned by each person, where purchased and if transferred.
 
OK... then we do disagree.
 
>> Right now all of this is on paper, it needs to be computerized. 
 
And to be clear, what you are advocating is currently illegal (on a national and state level) and has been for several decades.  So, I'm assuming you are saying you would want that law changed.
 
I would go in the opposite direction, and require even the paper to be destroyed after a certain amount of time.
 
Today, I own a certain number of guns of which some government at some level is aware of maybe half.  That's half too many.
 
>> They are not toys. 
 
On this (at least) you and I agree.  I too grew up with them, given my first gun at about the age of 6 or 7 (single shot 20 gauge to go squirrel hunting).  Safety and respect is paramount.
 
Just recently my brother and I took my 9-year-old nephew and two of his friends squirrel hunting.  It is opportunities like these that allow us to instill the right attitude and respect.
 
>> As far as voting. (and gun ownership) limited by stupid.
 
That's just not a slippery slope I'm willing to traverse in either case; too much potential for abuse (the type that leads to totalitarianism).
 
BUT... I do understand your frustration with both (stupid people shooting and voting ... and for that matter driving, and talking, and breeding, and … ) :)
 
 
wsucram15 Added Dec 9, 2017 - 1:48pm
Lynn;
I get it, I just live in a city where its sooo bad.  I do have a problem with stupid things or behavior..mine as well as anyone elses.  Your last comment at least gave me a chuckle.
Lynn Johnson Added Dec 9, 2017 - 3:02pm
>> I get it, I just live in a city where its sooo bad.
 
As do I... I lived in Houston for 20 years (on the edge of the hood) filled to the brim with malcontents and stupid people.
 
>> I do have a problem with stupid things or behavior..mine as well as anyone elses. 
 
A joke I've told on this forum before...
 
What are the last three words of most Texas men... "and watch this".
 
What are the last six words of most Texas men... "Hold my beer, and watch this".
 
>> Your last comment at least gave me a chuckle.
 
As it was meant to... :)
opher goodwin Added Dec 11, 2017 - 6:15am
Lyn - they don't do squirrel hunting in most cities do they?
opher goodwin Added Dec 11, 2017 - 6:18am
Dave - us Brits are planning to invade. We're just waiting for the right moment. I reckon America will pull itself apart shortly and be ripe for the picking. When they've used up all their ammo on each other we'll step in. It's a plan.
Bill Kamps Added Dec 12, 2017 - 1:24pm
The over whelming majority of violent crimes involving firearms are carried out by felons.......

 
This is an often repeated comment, basically saying that there are responsible gun owners, and criminals.  We hear this often repeated by the NRA.   However, most of the recent mass shootings were done by people with no criminal record, ie not felons.
 
I would also suggest there is a third class of gun owner, the irresponsible gun owner.  The guy that gets drunk and starts waving the gun around, the people who are mentally ill, but who havent been hospitalized, the guy that leaves his guns unlocked so they can be taken by children, or others who may come across them, the guy that gets pissed off at his wife and shoots her, the list goes on.
 
There are plenty of people who own guns who should not.  We have all met irresponsible people who should not own guns,  but there is no practical way to keep them from owning a gun.
 
Guns are part of our society, and allowed by the 2nd Amendment.  Given that, there will be people killed with guns.  Over 100 people a day die in car accidents, and we aren't trying to take away the  car, it is part of the price we pay for the society we want.