Treason

Treason
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Merriam-Webster defines treason as:

 

Keep this definition in mind as I make the case of treason.

 

Peter Stzrok is an American patriot.  He was the Deputy Assistant Director of the FBI and second in command over counterintelligence, since demoted.  He is a liberal progressive who supported O.  He loves his country and is willing to do anything to protect it--anything.  He felt that Trump was a security risk to the United States.  He took it upon himself to ensure that Trump could never be elected.  Once elected, he did everything in his power to undermine his presidency.  He became a leading member of the Mueller team to indict Trump.  He had a secret, untraceable phone with a direct link to Hillary Clinton.  We now know via text messages that Stzrok met with the Deputy Director of the FBI, Andrew McCabe, to discuss his "insurance policy" against Trump.  This happened.  This is direct evidence that our government colluded by overt acts to prevent Trump from being elected, and, once elected, to be unable to govern.  It is an attempt to subvert the election process and to overthrow the existing government of the US.  Stzrok may have the best intentions and may think he knows what is best for the US, but he is guilty of treason.  It is not his decision.  He also intervened in the Clinton email scandal changing the phrase "grossly negligence" to "extremely careless."  It was to ensure Clinton was not indicted, leaving Trump as the only choice.  It is believed that he took the Trump dossier to the FISA court and knowingly used this fabricated document as justification to spy on Americans and the opponent's campaign. 

 

Trying searching Bruce Orh on Google.  The first time I did, I had to check a box indicating I was not a robot.  There were no hits in the top ten.  Bruce Ohr, the number four man in the DOJ, was recently demoted because of his collusion with the law firm and the British spy who fabricated the Trump dossier.  As it turns out, his wife, Nellie, works for the law firm and worked with the US DOJ on Russian affairs.  She was part of the team digging up dirt on Trump.  This dossier was paid for by Clinton and the DNC as opposition research, then dressed up by the FBI and the DOJ as justification to spy on Americans.  It appears the DOJ colluded with Hillary Clinton, the DNC, and the Russians to fabricate the Trump dossier.  It is likely that Orh authorized payment for further research against Trump.  Orh used his wife to dig up dirt on Trump then used the dossier to spy on members of the Trump team before and after the election.

 

Then we have the Mueller team.  It is constructed primarily of Clinton supporters.  The same posse that tried its best to prevent Trump from being elected is now its judge, jury, and executioner.

 

What we have here is the US government--namely the DOJ, FBI, and the CIA--picking winners and losers.  We have a government willing to subvert the law and the US election process to prevent someone whom it believes is detrimental to leading the US from being elected.  We have, in fact, a political campaign fabricating documents against its opponent and using the vast resources of the US government to use these documents to illegally spy on Americans and undermine a political opponent and to undermine the legitimate government of the United States.  It is ironic that the government, in fact, was the one colluding with the Russian.  It was not the Russians undermining the US election process; it was the Clintons, DNC, DOJ, FBI, and the CIA.  This is the biggest political scandal ever, bar none.   I don't even mention Sanders.

 

I won't go into the Uranium One deal here either, but it is another example of treason, selling out our national interest to the highest bidder for personal profit. 

 

We are at an inflection point with the Deep State. The Deep State either wins and Trump is impeached, or the Deep State gets cleaned out.  An Inspector General is looking into the allegations.  I suspect it will find nothing, not because there is nothing there to find; it has to ensure that nothing is found.  The Mueller investigation may turn out to be the best event ever for Trump.  He may well be able to keep his promise to clean out the Deep State.  In the end, only one will be left standing.  It will either be Trump or the Deep State.  Place your bets now.  Who do I think will win?  It is one man against the vast resources of the state and mainstream media.  I think the odds of Trump winning are similar to him winning the election--highly improbable.  If Trump wins, could it spell the end of the FBI as we know it?  Its corruption knows no bounds.  It must change.

 

For those liberal progressives that don't care as long as Trump is booted out of office, be careful what you wish for.  What the liberal progressives can do at this point can be done against them in the future.  It is treason of the highest order.  It is a political scandal orders of magnitude above Watergate.  People of all political persuasions should be concerned.  Put your partisan politics aside and be objective.  This cannot end well.

 

 

Comments

The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 14, 2017 - 1:24pm
Agreed. There aren't enough cells to hold them all Leroy. Every bureau, every agency polluted with them. The government has become a parasitical organism.
Leroy Added Dec 14, 2017 - 1:53pm
TBH, then let's build more cells.
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 14, 2017 - 1:58pm
Rope is a lot cheaper, but it may not come to that :)
Leroy Added Dec 14, 2017 - 2:22pm
Maybe we should hang a few to encourage the rest.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Dec 14, 2017 - 2:47pm
Very good article. With friends like politicians you don't need Russians - as they say.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Dec 14, 2017 - 2:48pm
Maybe I should have written 'like government officials' I just did not remember the word. It's the deep state after all.
George N Romey Added Dec 14, 2017 - 3:03pm
Or off with their heads. This government needs to fall apart.
Leroy Added Dec 14, 2017 - 3:14pm
Thanks, Benjamin!
 
George, it needs a reset for sure.
TexasLynn Added Dec 14, 2017 - 3:48pm
Really, really, good post!  For a government agency (or even just a select group within an agency) to do this sort of thing is in fact treason.  These guys decided the ends justified the means.  Many have come to that conclusion concerning Trump.
 
One scary part of all this is that even though they were demoted and reassigned; these guys are still employed at the DOJ/FBI.  Why?  I guess this shouldn't surprise us.  Lois Lerner is a free woman and John Koskinen is still IRS Commissioner.  The roots of the corrupt Deep State are indeed entrenched.
 
Unfortunately, if the IRS is any example of the spine needed to do the right thing (by Congress) ... we're in trouble... again.
 
>> Place your bets now.  Who do I think will win?  It is one man [Trump] against the vast resources of the state and mainstream media.  I think the odds of Trump winning are similar to him winning the election--highly improbable.
 
On this we agree.  To win, Trump must beat everybody; even the members of his own party.  Currently, Trump is losing this battle and if I had to objectively place a bet on who I think will come out on top... I'd say the Deep State.  The only reason there is a smidgeon of doubt is his unprecedented thrashing of Hillary (despite the rigged system).
 
>> For those liberal progressives that don't care as long as Trump is booted out of office, be careful what you wish for.  What the liberal progressives can do at this point can be done against them in the future.
 
Here, I disagree a bit.  Right now, the Deep State is completely blue (progressive), and there is practically zero chance that will ever change.  Massive bureaucracies are by nature progressive.  For the tables to be turned and this eventually be used against progressives; the entirety of the Deep State would have to switch from blue to red.  Probability overwhelmingly says, if you’re a progressive, the current morally bankrupt system is and will remain your friend.  They literally saved Hillary from indictment, more of the same will follow... indefinitely.
 
>> Put your partisan politics aside and be objective.
 
Want to bet on this one?  I'll give 10 to 1 against.  50 to 1 on WB progressives.
Stone-Eater Added Dec 14, 2017 - 3:49pm
Leroy
 
One should lock up the whole MIC and let Trump do what he feels like. Then we'd see what he is REALLY about.
Stone-Eater Added Dec 14, 2017 - 3:53pm
Question:
 
WHY do Americans complain when Trump wants to have GOOD relations with Russia ? Because they prefer frictions and war to friendly business relations ?
 
I tell you why: Because Americans still live in the McCarthy propaganda era and think that "communism" is worse than nuclear war.
Dave Volek Added Dec 14, 2017 - 3:56pm
Leroy
In Canada, we have done away with a lot of patronage appointments in the civil service. There's still some happening, but it's lot less than when I was in politics.
 
If these patronage appointments are affecting government operations, then all I can suggest the USA should move away from a system where patronage appointments are normal. If there are no political parties--which require favors to be paid back--there won't be that much patronage.
 
Even so, it's not a bad idea for politicians to be nice to civil servants, who can make things harder or easier to get done.
 
Dino Manalis Added Dec 14, 2017 - 4:00pm
By taking all these actions, they're actually harming America by undermining this administration.  It's a waste of time; money; brain cells; and delays serious policymaking!
Beem Weeks Added Dec 14, 2017 - 4:02pm
Excellent article, Leroy. 
Stone-Eater Added Dec 14, 2017 - 4:16pm
Dino
 
serious policymaking
 
What's that in YOUR view ?
Stone-Eater Added Dec 14, 2017 - 4:19pm
Right now, the Deep State is completely blue (progressive), and there is practically zero chance that will ever change
 
The Deep State has no colour and no borders, no political preference and no role in society. It's purpose is profit and influence.
 
The Deep State laughs about the little man's debates about -isms and religions.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Dec 14, 2017 - 4:26pm
You forgot this bit, Leroy:
”Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.”
 
https://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A3Sec3.html
 
There is and was a great deal of talk about the Trump campaign and their collusion with the Russians and was this “treason.”  Based upon the constitutionional definition (the only crime defined in the constitution) of treason it is not.  The constitution is very specific on what “treason” is.  None of what you describe is, even if true (I’m not going to bother fact checking anything you wrote).
 
Our founders, very correctly, didn’t want charges of treason or sedition tossed around willy nilly.  They did this for good reason because they didn’t want this charge abused for the purposes of punishing dissenters or silencing the opposition.
 
So, while the things you describe (if true) may be crimes under other statutes, it does not meet the constitutional definition of “treason.”  It doesn’t matter how it is defined, it only matters how it matches what the constitution says.
TexasLynn Added Dec 14, 2017 - 4:57pm
>> The Deep State has no colour and no borders, no political preference and no role in society. It's purpose is profit and influence.
 
You're right... and wrong... :)
 
Looking at the words and actions of the rogue DOJ employees documented in Leroy's original post, make it very clear they have a colour and political preference (which are one and the same).
 
By color (blue in this case) I assert the Deep State is progressive.  Pretending the massive bureaucracy does not vote lock-step for the left is naive or willful blindness. 
 
They are probably the only ones who might (MIGHT) give the mainstream media and university professors a run for the money (in voting overwhelmingly Democratic).  That being the case, their actions and rulings also overwhelmingly follow their progressive proclivities.  The Deep State is the friend of the left and the enemy of the right... plain and simple.
 
No Borders? Of course, they exist in every state and at the federal level... even local I'm sure.
 
Role in Society depends on your perspective.  Once a bureaucracy is created its purpose does eventually shift to accumulating power, influence and money.  It's just human nature.
TexasLynn Added Dec 14, 2017 - 5:02pm
>> Treason against the United States, shall consist... So, while the things you describe (if true) may be crimes under other statutes, it does not meet the constitutional definition of “treason.”
 
I do appreciate your analysis here Jeffrey. Rule of law is indeed very important.
 
We may be using "treason" as many do the term "fascism". The correct term here may indeed simply be "criminal".
Stone-Eater Added Dec 14, 2017 - 5:29pm
Lynn
 
By color (blue in this case) I assert the Deep State is progressive
 
I'm a leftist by heart as per definition of socialism/social democracy. But your "progressives" are NOT leftists in the classical sense. They're slaves of the corporatocracy, whereas the corporations play the role of the decider and let the politicians, which are merely their speakers, sell their interests to the public.
Stone-Eater Added Dec 14, 2017 - 5:32pm
...and the losers are YOU, the regular Joe, who fights for a job, for his home, for the education of his kids he can't pay. In that regard, Bernie was right. But no matter which figurehead you've got up there, it won't change. Because it's not the prez who makes the agenda.
TexasLynn Added Dec 14, 2017 - 5:57pm
SEF >> I'm a leftist by heart as per definition of socialism/social democracy. But your "progressives" are NOT leftists in the classical sense.
 
SEF... no offense was intended. I use the terms leftist and progressive interchangeably (as does most of society and as does most leftists and progressives I believe). I apologize that I have made little effort in keeping up with preferred pronouns, whose feuding with who, or the fine tuned semantics of the left.
 
SEF >> They're slaves of the corporatocracy...
 
I understand your frustration with your less enlightened brothers... I (on the right) have the same problem. :) #%&#ing Republicans!... Sellouts... :)
 
SEF >> ...and the losers are YOU, the regular Joe...
 
Help! Help! I'm being repressed! :)
 
Leroy Added Dec 14, 2017 - 6:00pm
Thanks, Lynn.
 
"One scary part of all this is that even though they were demoted and reassigned; these guys are still employed at the DOJ/FBI.  Why?"
 
Indeed.  Why are they still employed?   My only thought on this is that they will still be useful if the Deep State manages to make this blow over.  I have no doubt that they had the best interest of the US as they saw it in mind.  But they were wrong.
Leroy Added Dec 14, 2017 - 6:07pm
Thanks for your comments, Stoney.


 
"One should lock up the whole MIC and let Trump do what he feels like. Then we'd see what he is REALLY about."
 
I have no idea what MIC might be.




 
"WHY do Americans complain when Trump wants to have GOOD relations with Russia ? Because they prefer frictions and war to friendly business relations ?"
 
I have no problem with the US cooperating with Russia or any other country if it improves the peace and harmony and business.  I don't think most Americas harbor any animus against Russia.
 
"I tell you why: Because Americans still live in the McCarthy propaganda era and think that "communism" is worse than nuclear war."
 
Communism is the antithesis of the US.  Russia is no longer communist.  There is nothing to fear.  We have more in common with Russia than we don't.
Leroy Added Dec 14, 2017 - 6:10pm
Thanks for your comments, Dave.  The FBI is supposed to be apolitical.  I think Clinton was able to stack the appointments in her favor with O's tactic approval.
Leroy Added Dec 14, 2017 - 6:10pm
Thanks, Beem!
Leroy Added Dec 14, 2017 - 6:11pm
I agree, Dino.
George N Romey Added Dec 14, 2017 - 6:19pm
SEF you are right on target.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Dec 14, 2017 - 6:28pm
@Lynn Johnson:
”We may be using "treason" as many do the term "fascism".  The correct term here may indeed simply be "criminal".
 
I agree, which is why we need to be careful on what we call “treason.”  It may be criminal, just not treason.
 
I actually haven’t looked at what’s happened with Mueller’s investigation the last couple of days, it’s a rather busy time of year for me.  I intend on catching up.
 
Your comment on “Fascism” reminds me, I am going to write an article on National Socialism but haven’t quite got around to it.
Leroy Added Dec 14, 2017 - 6:33pm
Jeffrey, you make a good point.  It appears that it doesn't meet the constitutionally defined definition of treason.  I suppose being the enemy of the state doesn't qualify.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Dec 14, 2017 - 6:39pm
“Enemy” in this instance seems very subjective, Leroy.  I’m not familiar enough on this case to comment further.
 
The funny thing is, I remember complaints in October of 2016 that FBI agents were pro-Trump.  Funny what a difference a year makes....
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 14, 2017 - 6:42pm
Though their actions may fall shy of the mark per statute they were no less treasonous in spirit.  
 
MIC refers to Ike's Military Industrial Complex....he didn't invent it, just coined the phrase
Leroy Added Dec 14, 2017 - 6:47pm
"The funny thing is, I remember complaints in October of 2016 that FBI agents were pro-Trump.  Funny what a difference a year makes.... "
 
I don't think the FBI agents are pro-Trump.  To this day, the rank and file are overwhelming conservative.  The leadership is overwhelmingly liberal.
Leroy Added Dec 14, 2017 - 6:47pm
Thanks for the definition, TBH.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Dec 14, 2017 - 7:19pm
@TBH:
”Though their actions may fall shy of the mark per statute they were no less treasonous in spirit.”
 
Irrelevant and a little disturbing.  
 
AFAIK no one has actually been charged with anything, how do you convict someone on the basis of “spirit?”  Who judges the parameters of “spirit?”
 
This is why our founders very intelligently defined treason very narrowly.  It can too easily be turned into a convenient weapon.
 
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 14, 2017 - 7:37pm
Im not drawing a charge. Simply stating their actions were criminal and treasonous in nature.  So they're not guilty of treason, as defined. They are no less criminal
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 14, 2017 - 7:49pm
lets put in perspective here what this equates to. to begin with I would contest the constitutionality of there even being a federalized police force, but thats a whole other matter. To have a federal agency with full police powers manned by officers operating under a political agenda is essentially what is at issue. We do not know this to be a gospel truth, but there is clear evidence to suggest it. In the old Soviet Union they had something rather similar to this called the NKVD
William Stockton Added Dec 14, 2017 - 7:49pm
Excellent article Leroy.  Each day I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop.  The tension is building.  
 
"I don't have a good feeling about this one"
"When was the last time you felt good about anything?"
Jeff Jackson Added Dec 14, 2017 - 8:34pm
Nothing less than outstanding, Leroy. We are entering a period of time when the resources of the government are being used to promote the personal interests of the few, or, as we know them, the Deep State. This is corruption of the highest order, and, as we know, the only solution is to, as you suggest, either imprison them or get rid of them with a "final solution," to coin a phrase. When those who regulate the government are the very people who make the decisions as to who will be prosecuted, they will protect their own. Hillary Clinton placed our country in deep peril, while she only thought of herself.
As these traitors come under more and more scrutiny, I predict that they will become more and more desperate, and collude with anyone who can help them, even, as already noted, foreign powers that threaten our government and ultimately, our people. Trump presents a danger to the Deep State and they are growing more and more desperate to remove him. I hope more people read this, they need to.
Leroy Added Dec 14, 2017 - 8:48pm
Thanks, William.  I too wait for the other shoe to drop.  It has me in awe just how corrupt the DOJ and FBI are.
Shane Laing Added Dec 14, 2017 - 8:48pm
Very interesting Leroy I enjoyed your article very much.  Can you imagine how these agencies would be undermined if Trump actually turns things around and makes the US great again despite their efforts.
Leroy Added Dec 14, 2017 - 8:57pm
Thanks, Jeff.  It's so bizarre that the accusers are also the judge, jury, and executioner.  Whether its the FBI, IRS, or the EPA, they are all weaponized to hunt down and destroy the enemies of the Deep State.  And, yes, the Deep State has been acknowledged to exist by one of the players.  It is truly the enemy of the people.  I would like to say the enemy of the state, but it is the state.  It's scary.  Will they start another war to divert attention?  I see that Linsdey Graham has said there is a 70% chance of war with North Korea if it test another nuclear weapon and a 30% chance otherwise.  Was this a hint?
William Stockton Added Dec 14, 2017 - 9:31pm
Leroy, You might like this video analyzing Rosenstein's testimony before Congress.
 
This whole Russian collusion nonsense is just a cover up for the Obama administration spying on the Trump campaign. Period!
Bill H. Added Dec 14, 2017 - 9:44pm
 
Another Fox video. Yeahhh, rieeeght!
Leroy Added Dec 14, 2017 - 9:58pm
Thanks for the link, William.  It was kind of funny.  Congressional testimony is a waste of time.  I've listened to some of it.  One would have to be politically stupid to say anything meaningful.
 
It will be interesting if it does lead directly to O.  I don't know whether he tacitly agreed with the shenanigans and personally directed them.  If it leads to O, do you think there is anyway a former president would be indicted?  or the first "black" president.
William Stockton Added Dec 14, 2017 - 9:59pm
Bill H.  Are you that stupid?  Probably not.  You are just acting like you are.
Stone-Eater Added Dec 15, 2017 - 12:48am
Lynn
 
Of course, they exist in every state and at the federal level
 
I meant they exist in every Western country...and maybe worldwide. The "elitist" class, so to say. And they have for goals, as I said, influence, power and money, and how they're being labeled doesn't interest them at all :-)
Stone-Eater Added Dec 15, 2017 - 12:50am
Leroy
 
MIC = Military-industrial complex - from the Pentagon to the digital giants to oil, gas and other industries, finishing on Wall Street and the London City....
 
....the left-outs are us. The simple bloke who only wants to survive and maybe raise a family as decently as possible....
Stone-Eater Added Dec 15, 2017 - 12:52am
BTW:
 
Communism is the antithesis of the US.  Russia is no longer communist.  There is nothing to fear.  We have more in common with Russia than we don't.
 
A lot of people haven't noticed that, and mass media doesn't quite give them that idea LOL
Stone-Eater Added Dec 15, 2017 - 12:54am
This whole Russian collusion nonsense is just a cover up for the Obama administration spying on the Trump campaign.
 
I think so too.
Leroy Added Dec 15, 2017 - 6:29am
Thanks, Shane!
 
"Can you imagine how these agencies would be undermined if Trump actually turns things around and makes the US great again despite their efforts."
 
It is their and the progressive left's worst nightmare for Trump to be successful.  If Trump did make the US great again, they would find something to complain about.  Maybe they would complain that the rich got richer along with everyone else. 
Leroy Added Dec 15, 2017 - 6:36am
"MIC = Military-industrial complex - from the Pentagon to the digital giants to oil, gas and other industries, finishing on Wall Street and the London City....
 
....the left-outs are us. The simple bloke who only wants to survive and maybe raise a family as decently as possible.... "
 
Thanks for elaborating, Stoney.  To Trump's credit, he has taken on the MIC, ordering the first audit ever, according to one source.  It will be a massive audit.  It was a little embarrassing when they lost 44,000 soldiers.  Enough was enough.  I am glad to see an audit.  Hopefully, some of the inefficiencies can be curtailed.
 
I agree.  It is coming increasing difficult to raise a family.  That is why the US birthrate hit an all-time low in 2016.  Paul Ryan has suggested that we start making more babies.  How can anyone afford it?  Only the poor can afford to have large families.
 
I also give Trump credit for going where no other president has dared to trod.  If he is not destroyed, I believe we will see real change, for better or worse.
Stone-Eater Added Dec 15, 2017 - 7:10am
Leroy
 
To Trump's credit, he has taken on the MIC, ordering the first audit ever, according to one source. 
 
I don't trust him - becoming rich without being a part of establishment (I've seen a pic of him laughing with the Clintons) seems impossible to me.
 
But if that unthinkable would be possible - I wish him good luck. And I don't give a shit, considering world peace, how many un-PC remarks and actions he has made and will still make :-)
 
And I really appreciate his tries to have a good relation with other world powers. But I don't think he can succeed against the enemies at home. That Russian collusion, which is a fake in my view, is breaking his neck.
 
There's too many old warmongering bastards there who sabotage him - from CNN to people like McCain and other yesterday assholes who simply need to have an "enemy" (be it Russia or China) - otherwise their whole world would be torn to pieces.
 
And don't forget - too many of these people loaded with cash could not accept the fact that OTHER peoples on that planet want to play a major role.
Leroy Added Dec 15, 2017 - 7:45am
Stoney, I never thought I would be a Trump supporter.  I have never liked him.  He's not a conservative nor a Republican nor is he religious.  But, he seems to have adopted all of them and seems to take them to heart.  I think he is actually trying to do what he said he was going to do.  I think he is an American patriot, for better or worse, much like the mob during WWII.  They were crooks, but they loved their country.  So far, he has made all the right moves.  If he hasn't seen as far as most, it has been because of all the pigmies standing on his shoulders.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Dec 15, 2017 - 9:27am
@SEF:
”That Russian collusion, which is a fake in my view, is breaking his neck.”
 
Hardly fake, Stone-Eater.  There were active contacts going on between Trump’s campaign and the Russians.  The Russians meddled, it’s a fact.  
 
The question is, how much?  No one is certain at this point what Trump knew or what he authorized.  That’s the point, that and figuring out what happened to prevent it from happening again.
 
Stone-Eater Added Dec 15, 2017 - 9:31am
Jeffrey
 
IF they meddled, they probably tried for the better.....think about the situation...
Stone-Eater Added Dec 15, 2017 - 9:32am
Better business than war. Though some who profit might disagree...
George N Romey Added Dec 15, 2017 - 9:36am
Trump was never invited into the ranks of the formal elite. Too brash, loud and sensational. The ruling elite would never accept a reality tv star. Now he got the job which the formal elites believe belongs to one of them whether it be a Clinton or a Bush. They will destroy the Presidency of Donald Trump just as they put a bullet in the head of JFK.
wsucram15 Added Dec 15, 2017 - 10:23am
Treason is a tricky one, and claiming enemy of the state is subjective.  I could say the same and present a case against people some of you feel are upright Americans.
Criminal is also going a bit far...remember its not the court of public opinion that you have to prove guilt in.  ITs a real court, with real law under scrutiny of a judge that will decide anyone's criminality.
George N Romey Added Dec 15, 2017 - 10:48am
The MIC, Wall Street, the City of London, central banks, large and medium global companies equal one thing.  Money. They might not always agree and no there is no formal "deep state" but there are plenty of organizations that have deep state members.  Trump might have the money to be part of the association of the "deep state" but his personality and style is such that he will never be invited in.  Doesn't matter if Trump was doing a great job or horrible job the deep state will get rid of him. In a prior time they'd simply just put a bullet in his head.  However, too many Americans would see through that "incident" so the deep state is taking the longer and more difficult path, discrediting him.
Bill H. Added Dec 15, 2017 - 10:50am
Leroy - If there is one thing Trump's father taught him was to say whatever the people you are dealing with want or need to hear. He mastered this in his business world and has carried it over to politics. He knew what people to convince and how to convince them. They still react, cheer, and chant at his "rallies", wearing their MAGA hats and giving him that constant ego boost that he requires at all times while he hands over the country to his ultra-rich cronies at the expense of his supporters and the rest of the country that he is constantly screwing in the ass.
I believe we are close to letting the cat out of the bag. Once Trump's financial interests are out in the open, the reality of what his priorities are will become known to all. If there is any treason, it is treason against the people since Trump has refused to divest in his worldwide collection of businesses while in office, which is a direct violation of the Constitution.
Stone-Eater Added Dec 15, 2017 - 10:53am
George
 
That's what I say, In Africa I'm away of that shit. And it helps to get out of that fucked up society. Even when there's no financial security there.
 
But I've noticed that I gained weight there. And I'm cool and have no pressure. And good friends. My blood pressure went down although I eat a lot of fat.
 
Mind cures body.
wsucram15 Added Dec 15, 2017 - 11:09am
George..the deep state is what needs to be overthrown. Trump has no power when it comes to them.
But BillH..I dont think they will let it go that far.  I think Trump will walk.
Leroy Added Dec 15, 2017 - 11:11am
"Hardly fake, Stone-Eater.  There were active contacts going on between Trump’s campaign and the Russians.  The Russians meddled, it’s a fact."
 
I agree, Jeffrey, that there was contact with the Russians, but it wasn't the Trump campaign.  We have irrefutable facts now that the Clinton campaign conspired with the Russians to create a fake dossier to bring down Trump.  We also know the Clinton campaign colluded with the DNC to ensure Sanders never stood a chance.
 
Aren't you the least bit disturbed that a political campaign created a fake dossier to undermine an opponent then used the FBI and DOJ to dress it up so the Clinton campaign and the O administration could justify spying on a political opponent to influence the election?  I think that if Trump had done this, I would have been objective enough and equally outraged.  I find it strange at the lack of concern by liberals. 
Leroy Added Dec 15, 2017 - 11:17am
"Treason is a tricky one, and claiming enemy of the state is subjective.  I could say the same and present a case against people some of you feel are upright Americans."
 
As I defined it, treason is not so tricky, WSU.  But, as Jeffrey pointed out, it may not reach the constitutional definition.  The enemy of the state should not be subjective at all.  If a government agency actively tries to undermine the current administration--whether we agree with it or not--is an enemy of the state.  A government agency that attempts to subvert the will of the people for an election is an enemy of the state.  Well, at least an enemy of the people.  It shouldn't matter about one's political affiliation.
Leroy Added Dec 15, 2017 - 11:24am
"If there is one thing Trump's father taught him was to say whatever the people you are dealing with want or need to hear. He mastered this in his business world and has carried it over to politics."
 
May be, Bill, but as long as he walks the walk and talks the talk and does everything he can to improve the US, I'm ok with it.  He may not hold these core beliefs, but if he implements the changes, I'm good with it.  As a project leader, I was often called on to execute projects that I didn't necessarily believe in.  I accomplished them to the best of my ability.  I give him credit for trying his best to do what he said he would do during the campaign.
George N Romey Added Dec 15, 2017 - 11:26am
I believe if we had President Sanders the Deep State would be in full action albeit in some different venue.   Possibly he would have gotten enough popular support to keep the Deep State at bay but I doubt that much of his proposed policies would have seen the light of day.  After the way he caved into Clinton there is no way he would have or could have put up a decent fight. Its just not in his DNA to be another FDR.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Dec 15, 2017 - 11:29am
@SEF:
”Jeffrey

IF they meddled, they probably tried for the better.....think about the situation...”
 
They meddled for their benefit, Stone-Eater.  I don’t blame them for doing it, I blame the Trump campaign for allowing themselves to be led by the nose.

Stone-Eater Friedli Added Dec 15, 2017 - 9:32am
Unfollow Me
“Better business than war. Though some who profit might disagree...”
 
What on earth makes you think Trump wants peace?
Leroy Added Dec 15, 2017 - 11:30am
Geoge, I don't think Sanders is all he is cracked up to be.  He's as much an outsider as Trump.  The Deep State would have already deep six'ed him by now.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Dec 15, 2017 - 11:40am
@Leroy:
”I agree, Jeffrey, that there was contact with the Russians, but it wasn't the Trump campaign. We have irrefutable facts now that the Clinton campaign conspired with the Russians to create a fake dossier to bring down Trump.”
 
LOL, if it’s the same dossier we are talking about that was commissioned by a conservative group trying to discredit Trump.  AFAIK no one disputes what’s in that dossier, it just makes Trump look bad.  He doesn’t need the help.
 
 
“We also know the Clinton campaign colluded with the DNC to ensure Sanders never stood a chance.”
 
I agree, that’s a disgrace that ultimately only benefited Trump.  

“Aren't you the least bit disturbed that a political campaign created a fake dossier to undermine an opponent then used the FBI and DOJ to dress it up so the Clinton campaign and the O administration could justify spying on a political opponent to influence the election?”
 
So, who’s spin does that come from, Leroy?  Fox News, Breitbart or Infowars?
 
 
“I think that if Trump had done this, I would have been objective enough and equally outraged. I find it strange at the lack of concern by liberals.”
 
I remain stunned that evangelicals voted for a serial philanderer who is twice divorced and 3X married.  I also remain stunned that so-called “conservative patriots” remain completely unconcerned that the man they voted for colluded in some fashion with the Russians to get elected.  I remain baffled that “forgotten men and women” think that a New York billionaire actually gives a shit about them.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Dec 15, 2017 - 12:06pm
"Peter Stzrok is an American patriot. "
 
Peter Stzrok is a slimy left-wing cadre who has embarrassed any notion of justice in the politically structured FBI. He should have been fired. His sleaze and crooked demeanor means he is a role model for HRC and other crooked politicos. 
Benjamin Goldstein Added Dec 15, 2017 - 12:24pm
Jeff: Can you somehow explain what 'meddle' means and why it's bad?
Bill H. Added Dec 15, 2017 - 12:51pm
"I remain stunned that evangelicals voted for a serial philanderer who is twice divorced and 3X married.  I also remain stunned that so-called “conservative patriots” remain completely unconcerned that the man they voted for colluded in some fashion with the Russians to get elected.  I remain baffled that “forgotten men and women” think that a New York billionaire actually gives a shit about them."
Many of us wonder the same exact thing. He is certainly not the hallmark of Conservative moral standards, nor is he an example for the group that once despised the "Dreaded Red Menace" and the "Threat of Communism" as they always have in the past. He has about as much in common with his voter base as he has with the black and Latino community.
Not only do his supporters have nothing in common with him, but they just seem to love eating up all of the bullshit being dished out by Breitbart and InfoWars.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Dec 15, 2017 - 12:56pm
Bill H: If you would climb from your high horse you would notice that Trump is culturally working class. His grammatically impaired speech is no coincidence. His father grew up in poverty. The problem of the left is that all their questions will forever be unanswered as long as they don't bother to listen.
Leroy Added Dec 15, 2017 - 1:27pm
"Peter Stzrok is a slimy left-wing cadre who has embarrassed any notion of justice in the politically structured FBI. He should have been fired. His sleaze and crooked demeanor means he is a role model for HRC and other crooked politicos."
 
rycK, I agree 100%.  In his perverted little mind, I have no doubt that he thought himself a patriot of the highest order.  I have no doubt that he thought he was protecting the country that he loved.  He's the kind of guy who would murder if he thought it was in the best interest of the US.  He has no moral compass.
Leroy Added Dec 15, 2017 - 1:29pm
"I remain stunned that evangelicals voted for a serial philanderer who is twice divorced and 3X married.  I also remain stunned that so-called “conservative patriots” remain completely unconcerned that the man they voted for colluded in some fashion with the Russians to get elected.  I remain baffled that “forgotten men and women” think that a New York billionaire actually gives a shit about them."
 
So, Jeffrey, it that your justification of getting rid of Trump by any means possible because you don't like him?
George N Romey Added Dec 15, 2017 - 2:17pm
Trump by nature of the real estate business lived and prospered at least to a certain extent with slime balls. The NYC real estate market is as lowlife. And let’s not forget the Clintons are no angels.
 
However Trump seems lost in the world of slime ball Washington which makes the world of NYC real estate a playpen for four year olds.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Dec 15, 2017 - 2:21pm
Romey: That is not the issue. The deep hate comes from the fact that Trump reminds the rich and the middle class who try to appear like the rich in their demeanor of the people that they really HATE, the poor.
 
He is new money. That's why heaven and earth must be moved to impeach him.
George N Romey Added Dec 15, 2017 - 2:24pm
Of course the rich hate the poor by and large. I’ve been around the super rich in the US and if they had their way the poor would be sent to concentration camps.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Dec 15, 2017 - 3:45pm
 George,
 
Hate comes from the left this season.   They cannot tolerate Trump because he will destroy their system if he can and most Americans apparently agree with him. 
 
And for all the noise about philanderers we forgot to add Slick Willie the lying, perverted Bimbo Banger and his erstwhile pump who led the Bimbo Eruption Control unit to buy off their complaints. 
 
As for the poor, we look at the 10 biggest cities and all the crime and corruption all victims of left-wing black Democrats and note that they must love poverty, drugs and crime. 
 
Live with it............
George N Romey Added Dec 15, 2017 - 4:41pm
No the Democrats love the votes it produces. Welfare with no hand up is simply an addiction to poverty. Notice all the so called liberals advocating basic income or welfare on a massive scale. They will never support guaranteed employment because that would break the dependency model.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Dec 15, 2017 - 7:13pm
@Benjamin Goldstein:
”Jeff: Can you somehow explain what 'meddle' means and why it's bad?”
 
That depends, Benjamin.  Is this an honest opening for a discussion or just a chance to call me an idiot?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Dec 15, 2017 - 7:24pm
@Leroy:
”So, Jeffrey, it that your justification of getting rid of Trump by any means possible because you don't like him?”
 
Actually no, Leroy.  As a liberal I happen to be somewhat tolerant of other people’s shortcomings as I realize that we are human and screw up.  I get it it, rich men have women throw themselves at them and men (and women) cheat.  I don’t condone the behavior by any means but I understand that it happens.
 
What I find so hypocritical is the God-squad and conservatives who get all self-righteous about human weakness....unless it benefits them to look the other way.  In that case it’s all about what benefits them and forget all the earthly transgressions.  God is forgiving, after all....as long as it benefits the God-squad and conservatives.  If the person is a liberal and/or Democrat then they can go to hell and die.
 
BTW, Trump needs no justification from me...he’s busy showing the country and the world what a dumb, unqualified moron he is that somehow managed to con just the right amount of people in the right amount of States.
 
This is why I say, screw this.  Enough foreplay.  Let’s get this party started, get the tax bill passed and start hacking away at the safety net.  Let’s do this thing already.  Let’s screw everybody, Black, White, Asian, Latino, etc., etc.
 
Let’s give the people what they voted so they can see what their religion and misguided patriotism bought them.
 
BTW, I’m on vacation so I’ll catch up later.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Dec 15, 2017 - 7:26pm
Jeff: I don't remember that I ever called you an idiot. However, I did once call a comment of yours stupid enough to leave it as an endpoint. You were quoting the dictionary to tell me that 'seems like x to me' means something is similar to x.
 
So what is collusion or meddling? How is it a bad thing?
Flying Junior Added Dec 16, 2017 - 3:08am
If Peter Strzok revealed by his messaging that he had a virulent hatred for Trump, keep this in mind.  Mueller removed him from the case immediately after this information came to light.
 
Why are the conservatives crying because Strzok was not fired?  It's not a crime to hate Trump.  The poor bastard is working in human resources.
 
Let the investigation proceed.  No one is seriously out to impeach Trump.  He might be impeached after 2019, but no one is placing bets on this.  The public has a right to know what happened.
 
Why does it piss you guys off?  Trump is a pathological liar.  But he will doubtless serve out his term.  Russian collusion?  No story there!  Of course there is a story.  Why do you continue to play the fool to support the demon Trump?  The entire DNC email leaks thing was orchestrated by Russians.  The sneaky bastards toy with Americans like we were toddlers.  Apparently they have also sabotaged votes in Germany, France and the U.K.
 
If the demon has his lawyers come up with a justification for him to fire Mueller, there will be demonstrations in every major U.S. city within 24 hours.  This is a democracy, dammit!  You welcome the dawn of fascism like foolish Germans welcomed the Third Reich.
Stone-Eater Added Dec 16, 2017 - 4:11am
Jeffrey
 
I think Trump wants peace and business when I see how he was trying to deal with Russia. It's not him that wants war, but probably the majority in the House and Congress together with the arms industry some are connected to.
Leroy Added Dec 16, 2017 - 6:30am
"If Peter Strzok revealed by his messaging that he had a virulent hatred for Trump, keep this in mind.  Mueller removed him from the case immediately after this information came to light.

Why are the conservatives crying because Strzok was not fired?  It's not a crime to hate Trump.  The poor bastard is working in human resources."
 
Flying J, Mueller demoted him.  Strzok committed a crime, violating the Hatch Act with political discussions.  He conspired with at least two people to undermine the election process.  Why are .you not disturbed by this?  He should have been fired and investigated.  Mueller removed him, but he hid it from Congress.  Sometimes the coverup is worse than the crime.  Mueller had to know that his investigation would be compromised if it came out that the number one point man was compromised. 
 
The goal is to impeach Trump.  Get the impeachment first, then worry about the ramifications later when the truth comes out.  Unfortunately for Mueller, the truth came out too soon.
 
"Let the investigation proceed.  No one is seriously out to impeach Trump.  He might be impeached after 2019, but no one is placing bets on this.  The public has a right to know what happened."
 
Really, the Democrats have already had a vote to impeach Trump.  Some fifty legislators voted in favor.  How can a seriously biased investigation continue?  If indicted under this kangaroo court (no offense to our friends down under), then half the nation won't accept a guilty verdict even if something is found. 
 
If there is reasonable evidence that a crime may have been committed, then I would favor firing the Mueller team and reconstituting another one.  But, we now know that this investigation was politically motivated and was the "insurance policy" of Peter Strzok.  The basis of the investigation is the opposition research by Trump's political opponent that was used by highly politicized leaders of the FBI and the DOJ, including Peter Strzok, to launch a bogus investigation.  Nothing has been proved against the Trump campaign.  Now it has moved to obstruction of justice for Trump carrying out his constitutional duties.  The reason for the investigation was based on false pretenses.  It has been investigated more than a year finding nothing.  It is obstructing the current administration.  What is the logic to continue this investigation other than political revenge?

 
"Why does it piss you guys off?"
 
I don't like my government deciding for whom I should vote and if I don't the way they wanted me to then impeach my choice under false pretenses.  I just have this thing against treason (in the traditional sense). Why are you not pissed off?  When it is your guy, I bet you will feel otherwise.
 
"Trump is a pathological liar."
 
Can you name a president in recent times who was not?  What does it have to do with anything.  Do you want to impeach him for being a liar?  If that is your standard, then let's impeach Congress.
 
"But he will doubtless serve out his term.  Russian collusion?  No story there!"
 
So, explain to me again why the investigation should continue.
 
"Of course there is a story.  Why do you continue to play the fool to support the demon Trump?"
 
Why did you support O?  What does this have to do with anything?  Trump is the duly elected leader, for better or worse.  I thought O was detrimental to the US, but I didn't call for his impeachment.  Is this your reason for wanting to impeach Trump?  Your hatred seems to cloud your vision.
 
"The entire DNC email leaks thing was orchestrated by Russians.  The sneaky bastards toy with Americans like we were toddlers.  Apparently they have also sabotaged votes in Germany, France and the U.K."
 
No such evidence exists.  Twice now, the FBI has attempted to get a Russian to cop a plea in exchange for life in the US with gifts.  The first one turned them down.  Let's see what the most recent one does.  That is how desperate the FBI is to push this narrative.  Much of the tension between Russia and the US and Europe is due to our actions against Russia.  Please do not be so naive to believe that we don't do sneaky things against Russia.  Sure, they likely tried to influence our election.  Most likely, they just wanted to create chaos.  If so, they succee
Leroy Added Dec 16, 2017 - 6:31am
ded admirably.  I suggest that we did it to ourselves.  O directly interfered with the Israeli elections.  I don't see you complaining.
 
"If the demon has his lawyers come up with a justification for him to fire Mueller, there will be demonstrations in every major U.S. city within 24 hours.  This is a democracy, dammit!  You welcome the dawn of fascism like foolish Germans welcomed the Third Reich."
 
Why would justification cause a problem?  If it is justified, are the #NeverTrumpers that illogical to continue their irrational narrative?  Why would this be fascism?  Don't you think that epithet has been overused lately?  Trump could have fired Mueller a long time ago.  Sessions didn't have to recuse himself.  The #NeverTrumpers have already moved on to sexual harassment as their last best hope of removing this "demon."  Mueller should be fired, but I now favor letting him continue.  Without this investigation, we would have never known just how corrupt the leadership of the FBI and the DOJ is.  Let it continue.  It just keeps getting better and better.  It is the best chance Trump has to drain the swamp.  I would like to credit Rosenstein with this master strategy, but I doubt it was intentional.
wsucram15 Added Dec 16, 2017 - 10:07am
George..that made me laugh today. "Trump seems lost in the world of slime ball Washington which makes the world of NYC real estate a playpen for four year olds."
Well, not really but kinda.  Its just a different sort of slime and he was already covered in the green kind, you know from the sewers in NYC. 
Washington DC is kinda shit brown...and really dirty slime.  I dont think Trump has the grit for it. He just likes the pretty pictures and status that comes from access to the West Wing.
 
Leroy..come on, everyone is bothered by ALL OF THIS.  You would have to be living in a cave to not be affected by this in some way and at some point, it will affect the cave dwellers as well.
You dont find it odd that we are at war with each other WHILE THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT IS RAPING THE SYSTEM?  ITS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.  NATURE, PARKS, RESOURCES, WATER, ENVIROMENT, WEALTHY VS POOR, MIDDLE CLASS TAXATION-NOT CUTS OVER NEXT 10 YEARS, the accusations..everything.  Use your brain Leroy.  Always Question everything..I do.
 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Dec 16, 2017 - 10:25am
Trump needs to fire Mueller and all the rest of the politicos and set up an independent counsel to reconsider HRC's obvious crimes. She belongs in jail and probably Bubba as well,
 
Drain the swamp
Bill H. Added Dec 16, 2017 - 11:24am
 
If Trump is not guilty of anything, then he has nothing to worry about and should be supportive of the investigation. In this case, it will eventually clear him of all misdoings and allow him to concentrate on his duties. If he is hiding something (which appears to be the case, as he apparently feels the heat getting closer), then it is his duty to the citizens of the United States to allow the investigation to continue.
If he was to make the idiotic move of firing Mueller, he would create a scenario that would soon be his downfall. Essentially it would be an admission of guilt and would result in his impeachment, which I suspect would be supported by a vast majority of Senate Republicans.
Flying Junior Added Dec 16, 2017 - 2:44pm
Great discussion Leroy.  I read every word.  Thank you.
 
But I'm not sure I can agree to the crimes you delineate.  Sounds like a tempest in a teapot to me.
Leroy Added Dec 16, 2017 - 3:56pm
"Leroy..come on, everyone is bothered by ALL OF THIS."
 
It's not about being bothered.  If this is what you think the article is about, you need to question yourself some more.  You've entirely missed the point.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Dec 16, 2017 - 4:06pm
I agree with rycK. It's ludicrous how nobody looks into the Hillary Victory Fund. It is not even denied by the democrats that she pulled up a criminal enterprise in no time. And honestly, something so criminal and smoothly set up as this thing reeks of mafia experience.
Leroy Added Dec 16, 2017 - 4:24pm
Perhaps this is a better fit:
 
18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy
 
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Dec 16, 2017 - 4:26pm
Bill H,
 
"If Trump is not guilty of anything, then he has nothing to worry about and should be supportive of the investigation."
 
If Hillary is not guilty of anything, then she has nothing to worry about and should be supportive of the investigation.
Bill H. Added Dec 16, 2017 - 5:15pm
 
Well, of course, rycK.
I don't give a shit about Hillary, she is old news.
Our nations concern right now is Trump.
Your concern is of retaliation, as is Trump's. My concern is that our system stays intact and continues to function as what is still one of the best in the world.
Many Presidents have been investigated in the past. We can be thankful that our system still allows us to continue doing so.
Leroy Added Dec 16, 2017 - 5:27pm
"Your concern is of retaliation, as is Trump's."
 
My concern is having a government that represents the will of the people.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Dec 16, 2017 - 5:34pm
I would throw out Mueller. This is a farce. Either the crime is clearly defined or the investigation is shelved. This is the standard of a civilized society.
Leroy Added Dec 16, 2017 - 5:39pm
I agree, Benjamin.  But, with every day that passes, there is a new revelation.  I say let it continue for a while.  When we know the full extent of the corruption, then shut it down.  We may even find a Mueller connection.
Tom C. Purcell Added Dec 16, 2017 - 5:44pm
As far as I'm concerned, there seems to be enough data to launch a major investigation into the Clintons and their mini empire as a whole.  Good article, I agree with the perspective that regardless of political affiliation, Americans ought to be pissed off at the level state corruption we're paying good money for.
Bill H. Added Dec 16, 2017 - 5:45pm
Leroy - at present (check Trump's approval ratings among people of all parties), our government does not represent the will of the people.
Last I checked, it was only about 23%.
Tom C. Purcell Added Dec 16, 2017 - 5:49pm
Only about 23 percent but they didn't ask everyone.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Dec 16, 2017 - 7:24pm
The entire DNC email leaks thing was orchestrated by Russians.  The sneaky bastards toy with Americans like we were toddlers.
 
 
What? 
 
Really? 

So you not only admit but recognize deep down in places you won't admit to at parties that DUHmerica isn't the biggest, bestest, powerfulest, wonderfulest, greatest cuntry [sic] in the whole big wide world ever ever ever. 
 
That some really poor country with a GDP less than that of fuckin' Italy is so powerful as to determine who your next president will be? 
 
Oh the humanity!
Leroy Added Dec 16, 2017 - 7:33pm
"Leroy - at present (check Trump's approval ratings among people of all parties), our government does not represent the will of the people.
Last I checked, it was only about 23%."
 
So, let's impeach him, right?  Last time I checked, it was double that.  I guess it depends on how the question is asked and who analyzes the response.   We all know that the polls showed Clinton with a double-digit advantage going into the election.  How did that work out?
 
Nevertheless, you confuse things, Bill.  It is the election where the will of the people was exercised.  That's all that counts.  Like him or not, for better or worse, he is the duly elected leader.   We have an election for president every four years.  That will be the next time to measure the will of the people.   Even if no one supported him, it would not be grounds for the corruption that we have witnessed to unseat the duly elected president. 
Leroy Added Dec 16, 2017 - 7:38pm
"The entire DNC email leaks thing was orchestrated by Russians.  The sneaky bastards toy with Americans like we were toddlers."
 
When the truth comes out, we will find that it was an inside job, a whistleblower who got blown away.
 
It really doesn't matter if it was orchestrated by the Russians.  The emails needed to be leaked to expose the corruption of the Clintons and the DNC to prevent Sanders from having a chance at the nomination.  Wrongdoing should be exposed.
Jeff Michka Added Dec 16, 2017 - 7:51pm
Willy Stockpot smears Bill H: Are you that stupid?  Probably not.  You are just describing yourself, Willy. THAT's HOW WE EXPLAIN YOU AND THE REMAINING WB rightist circus.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Dec 16, 2017 - 9:06pm
@SEF:
”I think Trump wants peace and business when I see how he was trying to deal with Russia.”
 
Is Russia the only one who counts, Stone-Eater?  Caving to Putin while pissing off Muslims and your historical allies seems like a really dumb thing to do.  Well, it is Trump, after all.  It’s a pretty low bar....
 
Actually, I do favor better relations with Russia, just not at the expense of anyone else.  
Jeffrey Kelly Added Dec 16, 2017 - 9:22pm
@Benjamin Goldstein:
”Jeff: I don't remember that I ever called you an idiot. However, I did once call a comment of yours stupid enough to leave it as an endpoint. You were quoting the dictionary to tell me that 'seems like x to me' means something is similar to x.”
 
You said I was wrong.  I showed you that I was right.  Just like I was right about Trump’s Jerusalem announcement.
 
But, that’s neither here nor there.  If you want to discuss that you know where to do so.

“So what is collusion or meddling? How is it a bad thing?”
 
”Meddling” in the sense that the Russians actively attempted to get the candidate they preferred in the Oval Office.  This included hacking into US voting systems during the election, spreading fake news via Twitter and Facebook, the DNC hack, etc.  “Colluding” in sense by the Trump campaign in trying to get this information for use against their opponent.
 
How is it a bad thing?  Disrupting elections puts basic democracy into question, the public loses faith in the system that they use to elect political figures.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Dec 16, 2017 - 10:57pm
Kelly:
”Meddling” in the sense that the Russians actively attempted to get the candidate they preferred in the Oval Office.
Must one be Russian? I think I also meddled.
 
This included hacking into US voting systems during the election
These Russians are IT devils. They hacked into computers without internet connections. I'm impressed.
 
the DNC hack
First off we know since the Snowden story that the NSA hacked the DNC too ... and your computer. Many people did. The person who leaked the emails to Wikileaks used a phishing attack. Podesta typed in his password to a mirror page. I would think that it was not the Russian government who makes such a primitive, easily avertable hack. I somehow think they are just about a bit better than that and just a bit worse than hacking without internet connection. When Obama tried to worsen the proxy wars with Moscow in Ukraine, Syria, and Yemen by throwing all Russian diplomats out, he let an intelligence agency  dossier circle around that showed that they found a Russian virus on the DNC server that allowed remote control. Why would the Russian government that had a virus for remote control, use a primitive phishing attack? The Russian virus was probably on the DNC computers because the democrats did't invest into computer security. BTW Clinton has quite a history of computer security neglect herself: the private email server in the state department was hacked by five foreign actors.
 
“Colluding” in sense by the Trump campaign in trying to get this information for use against their opponent.
The only information collecting activity that you mention was getting the podesta emails. So you say that it was not
a) ... a third party or
b) ... the Russian government
who passed the emails to Wikileaks? The idea is that the Trump campaign took the emails from the Russian government and handed it to  wikileaks. Do I understand your idea correctly?
 
Disrupting elections puts basic democracy into question
Your elections were disrupted? Interesting. So you didn't vote. Did the Russians hack your voting system without internet to turn off the voting machines? Did these devils also hack the paper ballots so they burnt in flames (people who can hack things without internet connection can do that)?
 
I'm not taking this anywhere else, but do you still claim that 'seems like x to me' is the same as 'is similar to x'?
I'm also right about Jerusalem. It's fantastic! Just four savages were killed on Friday. Inshallah!
 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Dec 16, 2017 - 11:50pm
@Benjamin Goldstein:
”Kelly:
”Meddling” in the sense that the Russians actively attempted to get the candidate they preferred in the Oval Office.
Must one be Russian? I think I also meddled.”
 
How so?

“This included hacking into US voting systems during the election
These Russians are IT devils. They hacked into computers without internet connections. I'm impressed.”
 
That’s nice.  I’m glad you are impressed.
 
 

“the DNC hack
First off we know since the Snowden story that the NSA hacked the DNC too ... and your computer......”
 
And so on, and so on....
See, this is the bit where I show you information that conflicts what you say (though there will be parts where we match) and you will accuse me of liberal bias and that I only want to believe what CNN tells me (even though I don’t watch CNN) and on and on.
 
Technically I’m still on vacation so I’m not really all that interested in playing along.  

“Colluding” in sense by the Trump campaign in trying to get this information for use against their opponent.
The only information collecting activity that you mention was getting the podesta emails. So you say that it was not
a) ... a third party or
b) ... the Russian government
who passed the emails to Wikileaks? The idea is that the Trump campaign took the emails from the Russian government and handed it to wikileaks. Do I understand your idea correctly?”
 
You asked me a question.  I answered it.  See the above about vacation.

“Disrupting elections puts basic democracy into question
Your elections were disrupted? Interesting. So you didn't vote.”
 
“You” as in me only or the other people that voted in the last election?
Because I did vote, me along with about 139 million of my fellow Americans.
 
“Did the Russians hack your voting system without internet to turn off the voting machines?”
 
I don’t really get this whole “no internet” thing, Benjamin.  Are you saying that the Russians can’t access the internet?
 
“Did these devils also hack the paper ballots so they burnt in flames (people who can hack things without internet connection can do that)?”
 
See my above query about the internet.  The rest of your rhetorical question is just plain silly.

“I'm not taking this anywhere else, but do you still claim that 'seems like x to me' is the same as 'is similar to x'?”
 
Do I need to pull that conversation up again?
If so you will need for me to come back from vacation.  I’m currently recovering from spending two days with my sons in a water park and we haven’t gotten home yet.

“I'm also right about Jerusalem. It's fantastic! Just four savages were killed on Friday. Inshallah!”
 
What makes them savages?  I meant to bring this up previously but I got busy.
Bill H. Added Dec 17, 2017 - 12:22am
Leroy - Feel lucky that you live in a country where if the room gets too dark, you can flick a switch and make it bright again.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Dec 17, 2017 - 2:21am
Kelly: 'No internet' like in 'your voting machines don't have internet'.
Leroy: Do you understand what Kelly is saying?
Leroy Added Dec 17, 2017 - 6:50am
"Leroy - Feel lucky that you live in a country where if the room gets too dark, you can flick a switch and make it bright again."
 
I do feel fortunate, Bill.  Flipping on the switch can also make the cockroaches scatter.  Let's open the doors and windows too so the sunlight can disinfect this virus.
Leroy Added Dec 17, 2017 - 7:10am
"Leroy: Do you understand what Kelly is saying?"
 
Oh, I understand what he is saying.  He's avoiding answering the question of how a voting machine that is not connected to the internet can be hacked.  That indeed would require some skill.  I supposed the Russians must have used the SneakerNet.  Even that is a challenge with each state having its own system and security.  Perhaps I should say county.
 
He has a curious definition of collusion.  Let's take Merriam-Webster's definition:
 
"secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose"
 
Simply trying to acquire the information is not collusion.  In any case, I wonder if he knows that collusion is not a crime.  But there is no evidence that has come to light to even show that the Trump campaign was trying to get the evidence from Wikileaks or the Russians.  We now know that the FBI originally said that the Clinton email server was reasonably likely hacked by foreign actors.  It was downgraded to possibly hacked in order to protect Clinton.   We can conclude that the email server was probably hacked by foreign actors due to gross negligence.  Obviously, Pedesta was negligent with the DNC emails using "password" for the password.  These guys weren't IT geniuses.

 
 
Michael B. Added Dec 17, 2017 - 9:43am
One day, this will all be fully revealed, just like the JFK assassination. Oh wait, maybe not, lol.
Bill H. Added Dec 17, 2017 - 11:15am
 
FYI - voting machines that are not connected to the internet contain software that tallies the vote. In past episodes of voting machine fraud, it was found that the software had actually been modified to add votes after certain increments or appearances of "random numbers" to a selected candidate, and could be quickly and easily uploaded by someone with the proper "tools".
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/406525/how-to-hack-an-election-in-one-minute/
Benjamin Goldstein Added Dec 17, 2017 - 11:19am
Great Bill, now the Russian must sneak around some thousand voting machines for the national election to manually do it and not get caught.
Leroy Added Dec 17, 2017 - 11:41am
All past instances of claims of votes being changed of which I am aware changed the vote to Republican to Democrat.  The Democrats pooh-poohed the idea.  No one, to my knowledge, has proved that it ever happened in fact.  Yeah.  Sure.  Give me access to a programmable device, and I can make it do strange things. I would probably wear out several pairs of sneakers.
Bill H. Added Dec 17, 2017 - 12:40pm
"All past instances of claims of votes being changed of which I am aware changed the vote to Republican to Democrat"
Leroy - I understand how you would like to think that, but it has occurred with both parties.
When are you and others going to finally figure out that both parties are corrupt and need to go away?
As usual, it's party over country, right?
By the way, most voting machine software is stored on the machine's manufacturer's servers. Any updates are downloaded by the precincts at the local level and applied to the machine. Modifications to software could be performed in an illicit manner at the machine vendor's location, or by redirection to a malicious web site, or by local swapping of memory cards at the precinct.
 
http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article17139890.html
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Dec 17, 2017 - 2:35pm
      Bill H
 
"When are you and others going to finally figure out that both parties are corrupt and need to go away?"
 

And, replaced by what?
Bill H. Added Dec 17, 2017 - 4:02pm
rycK-
A party that actually works for the people, not the corporations at the expense of the people.
If you remember your history, our system was intended to be "Government of the people, by the people, and for the people" as stated by Abraham Lincoln.
If you disagree with this, then you have no place calling yourself an American.
Leroy Added Dec 17, 2017 - 6:37pm
"If you remember your history, our system was intended to be "Government of the people, by the people, and for the people" as stated by Abraham Lincoln.  If you disagree with this, then you have no place calling yourself an American."
 
I agree wholeheartedly.  Sometimes one has to choose the lesser evil.  I would also add that anyone who supports the DOJ and FBI and perhaps the previous administration who are violating this principle by illegally trying to remove a duly elected president has no place calling themselves American.
Bill H. Added Dec 17, 2017 - 10:25pm
 
I am against ANY president or leader who sells out to corporate America. I don't care which dysfunctional party they represent. Many have in the past, but the present one is changing virtually everything to favor corporations  while trying to convince his followers that what he is doing will be "So great, It will make your head spin".
Do you really think corporations are going to hire more workers and increase the pay of their existing workforce with the tax windfalls they will receive? Hell no! It will go where it always goes, to the stockholders (many of whom are foreigners), the operating officers, and into offshore bank accounts.
I've been around long enough to have witnessed this multiple times in the past.
 
Flying Junior Added Dec 18, 2017 - 2:51am
Forgive me for not following this delicate comment thread.  But like most normal people that don't watch FOX, this is all entirely new to me.
 
So my liberal friends on another blog are wondering what the hell is all this bullshit about a coup d'etat?
 
Inspired by this wonderful information, I left this informative comment.
 
It seems improbable that anyone could give credit to this tempest in a teapot. But to the hardcore Trumpies this is very real and serious as a heart attack. The problem with Peter Strzok is only the tip of the iceberg. As far as I know, his emails were leaked illegally by the DOJ to the media.

There is another name that enters the fray. Bruce Ohr, a senior member of the DOJ in 2016, is married to a woman who was hired by Fusion GPS to aid in the investigation of Trump during the election to dig up dirt on Hillary's behalf. The infamous Trump dossier. Like anybody gives a fuck what Trump did with whores in Russia.

The wingnuts are fired up about all of this and screaming treason. They have a two-edged sword. They claim that the DOJ under Obama tried to sabotage a legitimate election. Apparently they feel that democratic efforts to win at any cost were somehow immoral and illegal. Never mind what Karl Rove and his operatives in every republican state did in 2004. They also claim that Trump's political opponents are seeking any means possible to remove him from office. Obviously it is all part of an elaborate scheme for Trump to be able to justify firing Mueller and pulling the plug on any investigation whatsoever.

I could provide you with examples. They charge that the Obama DOJ violated the Hatch Act. If there was ever any insurance policy discussed to prevent a Trump presidency, obviously it was ineffective.

This is a fucking showdown. The Trump team is giving it everything that they have. I wouldn't just laugh it off. If he wins this one, we are all fucked. They are betting the farm and the base is quite excited. Kellyanne is smiling so sweetly she almost looks pretty.
Leroy Added Dec 18, 2017 - 7:13am
Thanks for the comments, Flying J.
 
Let's say that Trump is successful in draining the swamp; i.e., all the O appointments and Clinton operatives are replaced with Trump loving supporters.  Let's say that in 2020, these Trump loving appointments do everything in their power with the full resources of the US government to prevent Bernie Sanders from winning the Democratic nomination because he is a socialist.  They manipulate the media and the people for a better matchup for the Republicans win the election.  They claim Bernie has direct ties to Russia and plans to implement full-blown communism once elected.  They produce a document showing Bernie is partying like it's 1984 in Russia.  Despite their best efforts, the Blue cities carry Bernie to the Democratic nomination.  Trump then spies on his transition team.  He uses the fake document to start an investigation of Bernie in hopes of getting him impeached.  They stack the investigation with Trump supporters.  They prevent him from governing.  No big deal, right?  Just a tempest in a teapot, right?
 
I don't get this attack on women.  Why are women's ability tied to the way they look?  Why is Sarah Huckabee Sanders fat-shamed by the liberals?  Admittedly, Kellyanne is not that pretty.  But why does that make her less intelligent, less able?  Regardless of whether we agree with their policy or choice of party, shouldn't we celebrate the intelligence, abilities, and accomplishments of these women rather than putting them down.  All this misogyny bugs me.
Leroy Added Dec 18, 2017 - 8:15am
Bill, I don't lose sleep over whether a corporation might receive a bigger tax cut than me.  I never understood the logic of taxing corporations.
 
Clinton was selling out the national interest to the highest bidder.  Do you think she would have been better?  I voted for the lesser evil.
 
We just have to see where it goes.  I think he is just keeping a campaign promise (well, sort of).  He is helping those who supported him, the middle-class worker.  If we make it in the best interest of corporations to invest in the US, the American worker will benefit.  I certainly can't argue with making US corporation more competitive. 
 
 
 
George N Romey Added Dec 18, 2017 - 8:19am
The Democratic Party will crush a Bernie like candidate. Sanders is too old to run. 2020 will be the nastiest year in American history since The Civil War. We will get 2 corporate/Wall Street candidates. Trump isn’t trusted to follow orders as dictated by the Deep State. Most Americans rightfully so will sit home in disgust. I predict something like a Booker/Rubio matchup. Both nothing more than shrills for their big money donors.
wsucram15 Added Dec 18, 2017 - 9:46am
Leroy..I commented a comment you made and also Georges comment.
I disagree with your article regarding Treason only in the fact that few people in history have been charged AND convicted of Treason.  "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.”   Now this is from a law review on this exact topic concerning the current situation.  
Chelsea Manning who released hundreds of documents to Julian Assange was never even charged with Treason.  Nor will Snowden be charged with Treason. 
What you are talking about are human beings.
Now I am going to tell you something about trained legal people who have ethics (admittedly not all do), being one, it does not matter how you feel..you follow facts.
A case relys on facts to argue to a judge who may have different personal feeling than you.  So its best to always stick to the facts and evidence.
Now I have been doing this for 40 years, prepping cases for trial.  People have opinions...its allowed.  AS LONG AS YOU DONT BRING TO TO THE JOB.  In fact, one word of bias will get you fired from a case instantly.  Thats what recusal or conflict of interest is about.  You are obligated to do this before your commit any impropriety to injure the case or investigation at hand.
 
What is happening now is political..you guys need to learn the difference between political opinion on the news and The Law.
 
wsucram15 Added Dec 18, 2017 - 10:00am
For example, I could impartially work a case about Trump under the law. I have more respect for myself than to compromise what I have worked my entire life to do.  I have ethics and morals.
Now I would not do that..because it COULD compromise the case BECAUSE..people like to make up stories.  Oh lets say I write stories about the president or send him tweets, stuff like that.   I dont have to like what he does.  That doesnt mean I cannot do my job. 
Maybe you could not..but I could.  I know that because I have had to, sometimes judges just dont want to hear about your petty shit and you have a degree and things under the law you have to abide to.  You understand?
It depends on the circumstances and that is up to a judge. Not the people and press.  This is political...
wsucram15 Added Dec 18, 2017 - 10:04am
Also misogyny bugs you?  If its towards Kellyanne or Sanders? Seriously? I like Sanders..she has a shitty job, but I like her.  I do not like Kellyanne, she is an idiot.  I cant believe Trump has not fired her by now.   She actually makes him look worse. She tries not to..but it never works, she isnt good with conflict or a quick thinker like Sanders.
Leroy Added Dec 18, 2017 - 10:07am
"I do not like Kellyanne, she is an idiot.  I cant believe Trump has not fired her by now."
 
The woman who pulled off one of if not the greatest presidential election upsets can't be an idiot.  Please try to be more objective.
George N Romey Added Dec 18, 2017 - 10:21am
I think Sanders does a good job too.  I can't speak to what is really in Trump's heart, I don't know the man.  No doubt his has a very scummy past but by no means is he alone in that regards.  However, it seems to be me he severely underestimated his enemies, of which he has many, and massively overestimated his ability to get things done.  Unlike an FDR, JFK or Clinton he has zero political savvy.
 
In this case two enemies, the Democrats and the establishment GOP have teamed up to fight a common enemy.  Birds of a feather flocking together is as old as man.  I doubt Trump ultimately will survive this but who knows.  I think the 2020 election will be the nastiest period in US history since the Civil War and ultimately many people will just tune it out.  Or given our quicksand economy (which Washington DC totally ignores) we will be in a 1929 style event by then and who knows what will happen.  Possibly total anarchy. 
George N Romey Added Dec 18, 2017 - 10:24am
And for the record I think Obama underestimated his enemies and overestimated his abilities along with being totally duped by the Wall Street crowd.
Tom C. Purcell Added Dec 18, 2017 - 10:34am
Obama was a pawn.  For me, in George's context here, it's just that simple.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Dec 18, 2017 - 11:02am
George
 
" However, it seems to be me he severely underestimated his enemies, of which he has many, and massively overestimated his ability to get things done. Unlike an FDR, JFK or Clinton he has zero political savvy."
 
Backward
 
[1] his enemies underestimated him. He routed the fieldl
[2] he is getting a lot done like the tax bill. He has a great economy
[3] he is not a politico, and I think he hates them all as I do. They are parasites so they cannot judge him by their phony political standards. 
 
Backward all the way. Note that wishes and criticism are not truth. 
George N Romey Added Dec 18, 2017 - 11:51am
What great economy? Oh yes the stock market which has no bearing to the real economy. Trump is another Obama taking credit for a gunned up economy.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Dec 18, 2017 - 12:08pm
Great compare to the Obama farce and the world is now growing as a negative testament to Obama and his foolish policies. Obama spent $10T dollars in debt, doubling the mess to $20T and now the leftists bawl about deficits!  What hypocrisy!
 
 And, you think the stock market is not an indicator of growth??
 
Silly
wsucram15 Added Dec 18, 2017 - 2:32pm
Here you go Leroy-
Best damn thing I read all year...this will teach men to underestimate women.
Its not done yet..
http://time.com/time-person-of-the-year-2017-silence-breakers/
The person of the year-the silence breakers. 
You know..the womens march in January on down....Have a good day.
Micahel Dolan Added Dec 18, 2017 - 3:46pm
How rotten and evil was Barack Hussein Obama-aka-Barry Soetero Jr. allowed Iran to ship cocaine to enter our country. Barry Jr. wanted to be sure that Iranian Lunatics got the ability to have nuclear weapons.
              Traitor Barry Jr.-LOCK HIM?-UP
 
Leroy Added Dec 18, 2017 - 7:20pm
"The person of the year-the silence breakers."
 
Too bad Trump didn't win it again.  Like him or hate him, he is in the news every day.  He deserved a repeat.  I guess they were insulted by Trump and gave it to this group.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Dec 19, 2017 - 5:15am
Best damn thing I read all year...this will teach men to underestimate women.
 
You'd be livid if the words "men" and "women" were swapped around. 
 
This western woman disdain for men is revolting in the sense that when men display similar sentiments about women they're condemned wholesale by women. 
 
I've always been correct when I maintain that western women don't want equality at all. They demand superiority.
 
Jeffry Gilbert Added Dec 19, 2017 - 5:23am
And, replaced by what?
 
Nothing.
 
Not a fuckin' thing. 
 
DUHmerica needs to be brought to heel. 
 
By heel I mean eliminated. 
George N Romey Added Dec 19, 2017 - 8:17am
As I’ve said more men would act like this if they had the money and power. That doesn’t make it right. My mother worked her way into at the time make oriented hospital management. I think if a male boss would have tried any funny business she would have whomped him good. But then again my mother didn’t take anyone’s crap.
 
If we impeached every President that had wandering hands half of them would have been gone. I don’t think Trump is any difference than a lot of men with power and money. That doesn’t make it right. But if a woman says hands off asshole or Ill knee you in the nuts most back off like a embarrassed little poor that gets a boner in the jr high boys room shower.
Leroy Added Dec 19, 2017 - 8:31am
I agree, George.  Maybe some women are afraid of being fired.  But, I don't buy it.  If a woman "whomps" a guy upside the head and screams at him in public, you can bet it will be the last time he tries that.  Who's going to fire a woman after that?  If anyone, it will be the guy who is fired.  I admire the women who did not take the abuse such as Ashley Judd and Taylor Swift.  I have little sympathy for the women who took it and then wait years later to make their charges for maximum political effect.  If it wasn't important to them then, it is not important now.  One woman complains--oh my gosh!--that Trump abused her by asking for her phone number.  By that standard, I've been sexually harassed.  I'm afraid that we have trivialized sexual harassment.  I guess we shouldn't watch John Wayne movies anymore where he forcefully kissing a woman who says "No" but who really means "Yes."
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 19, 2017 - 9:20am
Well done Leroy, congrats!  You've really stirred up a shitstorm with this one :)
Leroy Added Dec 19, 2017 - 9:23am
I do my best!
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 19, 2017 - 9:37am
A Fecus Magnus, A Turd de Force, an Exhibition of Excrement, oh wallow, wallow, wallow...... Damn! I think the pig is enjoying this!
Leroy Added Dec 19, 2017 - 9:48am
And to prove that truth is stranger than fiction, I read an article today where one of Trump's accusers had her mortgage paid off to bring her charges of sexual misconduct against Trump.  That's well-known.  The part that wasn't known was that this very same woman wrote Trump a flattering email "begging" him for a job as his makeup artist during the campaign.  She explains that she underwent two years of therapy and was cured and ready to work for Trump.  Does it get any more bizarre?
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 19, 2017 - 9:52am
Yes, by the minute
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 19, 2017 - 9:53am
Hunter S. Thompson once said " It never got weird enough for me"
he should have stuck around a bit longer
Stone-Eater Added Dec 19, 2017 - 1:32pm
Leroy
 
I have little sympathy for the women who took it and then wait years later to make their charges for maximum political effect.  If it wasn't important to them then, it is not important now.
 
Good one. That was part of my article too. Profit because you have the right sex.......#metoo don't like that shit ;-)
Leroy Added Dec 19, 2017 - 2:33pm
"Oh, my boss told me a dirty joke.  The horrror!" 
 
"Okay, ma'am.  Here's $25,000.  Does that make it all better?"
 
It's getting kind of crazy, Stoney. 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Dec 19, 2017 - 4:11pm
When the diversity craze hit my business  in the 1980s we had sudden 'promotions' of the female sort who now had power and substance but did not last very long. My technician surveyed the scene and told me he was waiting and hoping  for some sexual abuse. He didn't get any that I knew about, but that stuff was at least confidential in my area. 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Dec 19, 2017 - 4:17pm
Leroy,
 
"The part that wasn't known was that this very same woman wrote Trump a flattering email "begging" him for a job as his makeup artist during the campaign.  She explains that she underwent two years of therapy and was cured and ready to work for Trump.  Does it get any more bizarre?"
 
Note that sets up a new power vector in our society where a group of ladies can conspire to accuse some person of substance or power if they do not give up some money, time, sexual favors and such.
 
All it takes is some sobs and stories from a few ladies with similar stories and presto!--the bugger is gone. 
 
 
This is a quantum leap up and beyond the legal system. 
 
[could this work for guys too??]
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 19, 2017 - 4:33pm
Try it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Worst would be what? They'd laugh?
Leroy Added Dec 19, 2017 - 7:28pm
I was once asked by management if I thought the appraisal system was fair--not good but fair.  My response was, "Hell, no, it's not fair."  They asked me to explain.  In a forced ranking system where women are automatic bumped up one notch over their male counterparts can't be fair.  They told me I was nuts.  I produce the email from management stating the policy.
 
All it takes is a woman who didn't get what she thought she deserved.  It's a shame because of all the legitimate abuses out there.
 
"[could this work for guys too??]"
 
It worked against one Democrat Representative.  Some guy refused her advances.  She had to pay out.  It was before she became a Representative but she has decided not to run again.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Dec 20, 2017 - 11:50am
Leroy,,
 
My corp did the same and promoted incompetents that were finally fired. The rest of us just sat back and applauded any phony plan by the diversity types, a process known as malicious compliance. They refused to promote or hire white males for years. 
 
Good outcome
wsucram15 Added Dec 20, 2017 - 4:17pm
Leroy, I complimented one of them and you had to complain about the one I found fault with. Come on Leroy...give it a rest.
Actually Leroy no, in my opinion..she makes Trump look like more of an idiot than he makes himself look like with his tweets.
She isnt a smooth or trained press person. I have dealt with a few, and she isnt one of them...also she isnt a fast thinker like Sanders.
Sanders while lying her ass off..is good at her job.  Kellyanne is not even in the same political park.
At least I liked one of them.
Leroy Added Dec 20, 2017 - 9:24pm
"My corp did the same and promoted incompetents that were finally fired. The rest of us just sat back and applauded any phony plan by the diversity types, a process known as malicious compliance. They refused to promote or hire white males for years."
 
Since my former company colludes with other multinationals to pay an average salary and competent women in the technical fields are so rare and therefore command higher salaries, the worthy ones don't stick around.  They are quickly hired by other corporations.  There was one woman who served as a technical director who told us not to waste her time with explanations.  She wanted to see "pretty pictures" and graphs.  She was very mean-spirited.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Dec 21, 2017 - 10:06am
Leroy
 
Those days are over. Meritocracy. 
Jeffry Gilbert Added Dec 21, 2017 - 11:58pm
"Rep. Jordan goes after the piece of crap US deputy attorney general the Twitter President has in office. When the President of the United States has to rely on a congressman to call out the Justice Department and the FBI for its criminal actions and for its treason to overthrow both democracy and the elected government of the United States, you know we have elected a president who is too scared to defend himself. Roger Stone is correct, if Trump were a real man, Mueller, Comey, Hillary, Obama, and the rest of the criminal scum would be arrested, prosecuted and sentenced for their vast crimes, crimes that exceed those of anyone in prison today.
 
But Trump is nothing but talk. No action.
 
Whatever America is, it is not a free country.
 
If Trump wants to make America great again, he must shatter the CIA, FBI, NSA, and media into a thousand pieces. The concentrated power that President Eisenhower warned Americans about in 1961 is far too great for liberty to survive.
 
Instead, the weakest president in American history actually read the speech handed to him by the ruling neocon military/security complex and declared Russia and China inimical to Washington’s interests.
 
Americans are too insouciant to understand it, but this was a declaration of war against two countries, which when combined are more than a match for Washington.
 
Neither Russia nor China, much less an alliance between them, will accept Washington’s hegemony.
 
If the hubris-crazed fools in Washington persist, we are all going to die." - Paul Craig Roberts
Leroy Added Dec 22, 2017 - 5:37am
I agree with you, for the most part, Captain.  Congress has oversite but hasn't done much oversiting.  If the American people don't give a damn, then why should Congress?  I'm astonished by my fellow Americans.   The progressive liberals I understand.  They have always been short-sighted and prone to knee-jerk reactions.  They just want Trump out and can't think far enough ahead to realize the ramifications.
 
I don't think Trump can fire anyone without a backlash from Congress.  He would do well to fire Sessions, but Congress would never approve a replacement, presumably leaving Rosenstein in charge.
 
My hope is that Trump is just giving them enough rope to hang themselves.  If so, it seems to be working.
 
I'm not particularly worried about Russia and China.  They both have problems of their own.
 
 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Dec 22, 2017 - 11:57am
JEffry,
 
"But Trump is nothing but talk. No action."
 
 Been living under a rock  have  you??
Leroy Added Dec 23, 2017 - 5:23pm
The swamp just got a little lower.  Andrew McCabe is "retiring."  The list continues to grow.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Dec 23, 2017 - 7:46pm
Andrew McCabe is "retiring."  
 
Feral Baby Incinerator POS should be indicted rather than retire.
 
Jeffry Gilbert Added Dec 23, 2017 - 7:51pm
Been living under a rock  have  you??
 
Oh much much better than you are capable of imagining Sweetcheeks.
 
I live in a great house on a remote beach twelve time zones from your warmongering terrorist cesspool
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 30, 2017 - 1:51pm
Yo Leroy!
 
Did not want to stain myself by posting on Chris Crawfords post, but read through the thread. Dude. Seriously? Same rule as John G, OK?
Nuff said.....
Leroy Added Dec 30, 2017 - 2:07pm
Thanks for the heads-up, TBH.  I saw it and have already soiled myself there.  Too late...lol.
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 31, 2017 - 3:34am
LOL.....whaddya think? Could CC actually be HRC?  Doing that Tubular Sock third person bullshit?
Leroy Added Dec 31, 2017 - 8:33am
No.  She doesn't work on the weekends.  In any case, she would have an aide write it for her.  Just some #NeverTrumper with their panties in a wad, I suspect. Maybe some paid to shill for HRC.  Could be the reincarnation of Antony who heavily promoted HRC before the election and has since disappeared.  I always got the impression that he was paid to write.  The writing is similar.  I don't think it is "Marilyn French"; she was never that good of a writer.  Some have suggested the Speaker of Nonsense, but he was never that bad of a writer.  He may have been an ass, but he was a well-written ass.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jan 2, 2018 - 9:21am
mmm... your insights are worthy, friend :)  
Leroy Added Jan 10, 2018 - 5:20pm
It was announced today that Huma Abedin and her husband Antony Weiner called off their divorce.  Speculation is that they are trying to spare their child the trauma of the divorce.  It was said they would reach an agreement privately.  I'm shocked how everyone is missing the point.  Abedin stored classified documents on her husband's computer.  Or, perhaps he stole them.  If they are husband and wife. they can't be forced to testify against each other.  That's the real reason.  Me thinks an indictment is coming soon.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jan 11, 2018 - 9:39am
Leroy
 
" Me thinks an indictment is coming soon."
 
 
The wheels of Justice turn slowly, due to interference by the drooling left, but they turn anyway.
 
jmnsho
Leroy Added Jan 14, 2018 - 11:06pm
They do indeed turn slowly, rycK.  And now the first indictment in the Uranium One deal has been unsealed.  There is nothing to suggest anything else is coming, but, the fact that it is been investigated tells me the Clintons will be drawn into it.  Whether an indictment of the Clintons results is anyone's guess.  I say probably not because it appears to be leading towards two past presidents.  The Deep State won't allow it.  One thing for sure, the Clintons will never receive jail time.  They may have to give up some of their ill-gotten wealth but no time in the slammer.  I'm sure if jail time becomes an issue, Hillary will develop Parkinson's or some other disorder to draw sympathy.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jan 15, 2018 - 2:16pm
Leroy
 
Agreed. The Clintons are in trouble. I cannot accept the notion that they are immune to prosecution and jail time for many things. Having 10 SAC documents get loose is a major felony. They could get 20 on each count. 
Leroy Added Jan 19, 2018 - 6:25am
Interesting developments yesterday.  Apparently, a smoking gun memo was released to the House Intelligence Committee.  The Republicans want to release it to the public.  The Democrats are fighting the release.  Maybe a Republican should catch a cold.
 
It is not surprising that the Democrats don't want it released.  It apparently leads back to the former president and his cabinet and the FBI.  And, the timing could be just right for the 2018 elections.  This scandal is about to break wide open.  More of the swamp will be drained soon.   The Democrats have been so helpful--although unwittingly so--in draining the swamp and helping Trump keep his promise.
 
It will expose the Mueller investigation as a sham.  Hillary Clinton repeatedly accused Trump of collusion.  She apparently was in on the scam.  We are living interesting lives under Trump. 
 
The Lame Stream Media has once again changed tactics.  It is now bringing up porn stars that Trump has paid off.  The bimbo eruption didn't stick.  The collusion story didn't stick.  The obstruction of justice didn't stick.  So, now it is down to porn stars he paid off.  Who knows (or cares) if it is true at this point. 
Leroy Added Jan 23, 2018 - 4:43pm
The swamp drains a little more today when James Rybicki, Comey's and Wray's former chief of staff left the FBI.  You can bet he is involved.
 
And, the plot thickens with talks of secret societies and Peter Stzrok's text message equivocating one whether or not to join the Mueller team because he didn't believe there was a "big there there" with regards to Russian collusion.  I'm beginning to think that some US Senators may be caught up in the sweep, and not necessarily Democrats.  If there is a big there there with the Deep State conspiracy, the swamp dam will burse.  The coverup is always worse than the crime.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jan 24, 2018 - 12:08pm
Leroy
"The swamp drains a little more today..."
 
For sure...
 
Leroy Added Feb 7, 2018 - 8:13am
Yesterday, I read an article about Adam Schiff being snookered by two Russian comedians as he attempted to collude with Ukrainians for more dirt on Trump.   They claimed that Trump had sex with a Russian model after the 2013 Miss Universe pageant.   Putin supposed slipped them nude photographs of Trump and told Schiff that codes were used to communicate with the Russians.  Schiff bought it hook, line, and sinker.  Of course, he says he wasn't fooled by them, but the evidence says otherwise.
 
So, the story caused me the wonder if the whole Russian collusion nonsense was just another prank, perhaps by the same comedy team.  Perhaps so blinded by their hatred of Trump, the FBI and DOJ bought it hook, line, and sinker.  Or, perhaps they were just that desperate that they were willing to believe anything.
 
Think about it.  Doesn't it sound like a prank?  Is it really believable that Trump would hire prostitutes to pee on the bed that Obama slept in?  Could it be that the leadership of the DOJ and FBI are that incompetant?  Maybe they didn't believe it, but it was the only thing they had to go on, so they presented it to the FISC court.  
 
Would all the progressive liberals feel foolish if it turned out that it was all a prank?  Naw.  They would double down.   Soon, Bill H. will include the mention of nude photos of Trump in his diatribes.  The lamestream media will produce the photoshopped photos.  They will attempt to convince Americans that it is true.  Those that want it to be true--like Bill H.-- will believe it.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Feb 7, 2018 - 9:17am
This was drummed up by Hillary and her goons. 
 
She belongs in jail
Leroy Added Feb 7, 2018 - 5:23pm
Well, now we know that O was in the loop during the Clinton email investigation after he lied and said he wasn't involved.  It goes to the top.  The Democrats are sweating now.
Leroy Added Feb 8, 2018 - 9:39am
It just gets curiouser and curiouser by the day.  Now we know that the FBI missed the "(C)" marking for classified materials in Clinton's emails while looking for classified information.  Incompetence?  No, sadly, no.  It allowed Clinton to make the fantastic claim that she never sent or received emails marked "classified" as Secretary of State.  As Secretary of State, it is shocking to find that she was dealing with classified documents rather than just cookie recipes, yoga classes, and her daughter's wedding.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Feb 8, 2018 - 10:45am
Leroy
 
"Now we know that the FBI missed the "(C)" marking for classified materials in Clinton's emails while looking for classified information. Incompetence? No, sadly, no. "
 
Corruption of the Tammany Hall sort. Jail the bunch.
Leroy Added Apr 6, 2018 - 9:33am
It's come full circle now.  Indeed, reality is stranger than fiction.  You can't make this up.  All roads lead to Russia, right?  We all know that to be false today.  It is only the triumph of hope over reality that anyone continues to be that Trump colluded with the Russians, despite Adam Schiff's insistence that he has proof.
 
In fact, all roads lead to the UK and the Clintons.  Once cornered, the left pointed out that the original investigation began as a result of a former minor Trump advisor, Papadopoulos, getting drunk in a bar and blabbing to an Australian ambassador about Russia having dirt on the Clintons.  This was in proximity to the DNC email leak.  Papadopoulos learned of the dirt from a professor named Mifsud.  It was alleged that he had connections to Russian intelligence.  This was the smoking gun.  Amazingly, this was enough to trigger an FBI investigation.  
 
Today, we learn that Mifsud has no connection to Russian intelligence.  However, he has a UK  intelligence connection.  More bizarre still is that Mifsud claims to be a member of the Clinton Foundation.  We already knew that the Austrailian ambassador had connections to the Clinton Foundation. 
 
What does this all mean?  It was a setup from the beginning to the end by UK intelligence and the Clintons.  It is one of the most clever ruses ever attempted.  On one hand, the authors should be congratulated on their cleverness.  On the other, they should be shot as traitors.  To be proper, we should change the name to UK-gate or Clintongate or, perhaps, FBI-gate.  
 
We also know that O knew what was going on.  Perhaps he was leading it.  Harry Reid was involved.  The FBI is still reluctant to come clean.  There is more to hide.  I imagine that Director Wray doesn't want to further undermine the reputation of the FBI.  It's the same for the DOJ.  No one in government wants to indict a former president (Clinton) or the first "black" president (O).  Nor does anyone want to further undermine the reputation of the former House leadership.  I suspect that it reaches all the way to the Senate with John McCain.  It is a scandal too big to expose.  Delay, delay, delay seems to be the hope until Trump is framed with a crime or until he is out of office.  This is the biggest scandal ever to hit the US government.  And, it is a dangerous one.  It has prevented the Trump administration from easing tensions with Russia.  It has made war with Russia more likely.  It is undermined the Trump administration from doing its job.
TexasLynn Added Apr 6, 2018 - 9:58am
Leroy >> We all know that (Russian Collusion) to be false today.
 
Unfortunately, we are giving way too much credit to those suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome.  The logic and reason faculties of the left were never that well developed to begin with; add TDS and they are non-existent.
 
NOTHING will convince them there isn't some grand conspiracy between the Russians and Trump.  It is the only explanation that their beloved and anointed candidate could lose.  It is the only way their agenda could have been sidetracked.
 
Plus, how much of any of this is being reported or explained by the Main Stream Media?  We have more than the deep state to deal with to ever address the corruption.  Given what Trump is up against, I wouldn't put his chances above 1 in 5 of success.
 
And even those who are exposed to it (like here), dismiss it out of hand.  You’re right on the money.  They have hope (and the deep state, and the media)… reality be dammed.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Apr 6, 2018 - 10:14am
@Leroy:
”On the other, they should be shot as traitors.”
 
Leroy, do I need to give you a refresher on the Constitutional definition of treason?
 
”Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.”
 
OTOH you seem to be turning into Doug.
Leroy Added Apr 6, 2018 - 10:46am
Jeffrey, I used the word "traitors".  There are other statutes that apply.  Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were traitors but were not convicted of treason.
Leroy Added Apr 6, 2018 - 11:03am
"OTOH you seem to be turning into Doug."
 
Thanks for the compliment.
Leroy Added Apr 6, 2018 - 11:14am
All well-stated, Lynn.  They just don't get it.  As I have stated many times, and I mean no disrespect, those on the left tend to be short-term thinkers.  All they care about is removing Trump from office.  They see him as unfit (and he may be) and must be removed by any means possible.  They will cry foul when it happens to their beloved leader in the future.  They won't even acknowledge the equivalency.  They will be blind to it.  They fail to see that this is not a Democratic or Republican issue.  This issue is the undermining of our democracy.
 
And Opher complains about American interference...
Jeffrey Kelly Added Apr 6, 2018 - 11:15am
You shouldn’t take it that way, Leroy.  Doug is a vile little Holocaust denier and conspiracy loon.
 
BTW, the Rosenberg’s were convicted under the Espionage Act of 1917.  Do you think the above is espionage?
 
Here is the relevant law:
http://totallyhistory.com/espionage-act-of-1917/
Jeffrey Kelly Added Apr 6, 2018 - 11:17am
BTW, Leroy, I’m in no way saying or even implying you deny the Holocaust.  Please don’t take that from my above comment, that was restricted to Doug alone.
Leroy Added Apr 6, 2018 - 11:53am
My point, Jeffrey, to be clear, is that there are other ways of being a traitor.
 
While I don't agree with Doug's view of the Holocaust, he is a very thoughtful person.  I view that as a positive.  Disagreement doesn't put someone on my blacklist.  Disagreement makes conversation interesting.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Apr 6, 2018 - 11:53am
JK
 
Which Holocaust? There were several. 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Apr 6, 2018 - 1:01pm
I don’t mind disagreeing with someone, Leroy.  But Doug is so far out in the backfield he met himself in the stands.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Apr 6, 2018 - 1:02pm
@rycK the JFK Democrat:
 
Doug denies that Germans and their allies murdered about 5.5 million Jews during WW II.
Leroy Added Apr 22, 2018 - 7:21pm
Now we learn from the Electronic Communication (EC) document that NO Intelligence was used to launch the probe on Carter Page.  That's right--None.  It's like, "Heck, let's go destroy Trump.  Clinton is going to win and no one will ever know."  The scoop on Papadopoulos didn't come from Austrailian Intelligence.  We supposedly don't spy on our friends.  Rather, it came from a friend of the Clintons.  There was an assumption that it was passed though Intelligence channels, but this is not the case.  It was information fed by friends of the Clintons to the State Department and then on to the FBI.  This is the last thread of hope that the investigation of Carter Page was based on something legitimate.  It was not.  Someone will answer for that.
 
Then, we have the Comey memos released this week with Trump telling Comey he wanted to know about anyone connected to his campaign and the Russian.  In other words, he encouraged the investigation.  All the stuff the Democrats said was in these memos was nowhere to be found.  The memos, in fact, exonerate Trump.  
 
The investigation is falling apart.  With seventeen investigations, the Stormy Daniels is the greatest hope of impeaching Trump.  Even if Stormy can't push Trump over the edge, Trump no doubt jaywalked at some point in his life.  They will find something to hang him with--and the liberals will be so proud of their accomplishment. 
 
If there is any good news, Andrew McCabe received a criminal referral.  His life will be hell for a while.  But, he raised $550,000 from the liberal minions, so he won't have to sell any of his houses.  Add to that the contributions from Clinton associates to his wife and he will get the best justice that money can buy.  They say Comey is under investigation.  They'll never touch him, even though everything happened under his watch.  It is interesting to watch Comey and McCabe accuse each other.
 
The funniest thing about the memo was Comey begging to keep his job.  He apparently likes working for immoral, unfit presidents.  That might explain why he got along so well with O.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Apr 24, 2018 - 12:46pm
JK
 
"@rycK the JFK Democrat:
 
Doug denies that Germans and their allies murdered about 5.5 million Jews during WW II."
 
What count do we give the Russians here in this war if we substitute the word Jew for Kulak, Muslim, Gypsy, German soldiers, etc? Mao starved some 65 million of his own people. The Turks tried to kill off more than 2 million Armenians. 
 
What is important here? The ethnic identity  or the gross body count?
 
HST holds the record for mass murder of civilians where he twice wasted some 80,000 civilians in less than 5 seconds each time. Nobody blames Harry it seems. 
Leroy Added May 23, 2018 - 4:43pm
All roads lead to London.  London tried to undermine the US democratically elected president and continues to interfere with the federal government.  We need strong sanctions against the UK, much stronger than we ones we have applied against Russia.   Russia is innocent.  It was all a conspiracy to implicate Russia and the destroy the American presidency.  The Deep State is global.