Is Haiti a

Trump's done it again, been quoted or saying things that aren't politically correct.  No news there he does it all the time, and doesn't seem to care but this latest criticism seems a little hypocritical.  Haiti is not Hawaii, it is a miserable poverty stricken place that thousands if not millions of people would love to escape from if they could.  I suspect many of them would describe their own country as a "shit hole".  Surely those hoping to avoid being sent back are making that argument, so why can't Trump?

 

The US graciously granted almost 60,000 Haitians temporary refuge here while their country recovered from the last huge earthquake, and it's time for them to go home.  I know they love it here, half the world would love to come here, but they have to go home even if home is in a shit hole country.  

 

 

Comments

Stone-Eater Added Jan 12, 2018 - 8:19pm
half the world would love to come here
 
Yep. Know why ? Because they watch the rich and the famous on TV. And when they get there, they experience the reality. Same as here in Europe.
 
Bullshit. 
George N Romey Added Jan 12, 2018 - 8:28pm
It might not be the PC thing to say but Haiti is a shit hole. That comment really doesn’t bother me. Now the Nordic remark. Why would people want to leave mostly countries with a better living standard and come here? In fact I have friends from that area of the world and the US is kinda of a shit hole to them.
George N Romey Added Jan 12, 2018 - 8:29pm
SEF you are right. They fall for the fantasy that we’re all rich here.
Stone-Eater Added Jan 12, 2018 - 8:43pm
George
 
What is a shithole ? A place where people have no washing machine, no aircon and no car ? A house where the garage door can't be opened remotely and where you can't buy frozen food 24/7 ?
 
A shithole for me is a place where people don't talk to each other, are jealous of others, are hurrying all day to and from their job and have to do appointments by phone to meet a friend. A place where doors are locked all the time and people change direction when they see a group of kids hanging on the corner. Where windows are black of exhaust fumes, and food is mass produced and unhealthy. Where people have no say, find no job while their leaders swim in cash and tell the peasants "You can make it!" while they know they can't. And all these people accept that lifestyle because they've been told ever since it's the best.
 
That's a shithole.
 
Material wealth is good, but in the end it's a replacement for lacking human warmth. One day everyone will feel that. Maybe at a later stage in life, but it will come.
Stone-Eater Added Jan 12, 2018 - 8:58pm
BTW:
 
I had a friend who visited me in Mali. He saw the houses from the outside, mostly clay houses, and said: My, are these people poor ! No pavement, no comfort, power breaks all the time !
 
Then, I told him: Ok, true. But these houses are built according to climate, they have mostly 5 or more rooms, and they belong to the family. No mortgages. You pay the land, you build as you want and as you can afford, and no bank ever will sit on your back.
 
All you have to pay in he future is water and power. And trust me, such a life is a LOT easier :-)
Autumn Cote Added Jan 12, 2018 - 10:11pm
Please note, the second best way to draw more attention to your work is to comment on the work of others. I know this to be true because if you do, I'll do everything in my power to draw more attention to your articles (there is a lot I can do and would like to do on your behalf). 
Bill H. Added Jan 13, 2018 - 12:07am
My wife worked for the airlines for over 30 years. We were able to travel all over the world for next to nothing, so were able to go places that ironically made me wonder why I decided to keep living here in the US.
I have relatives in NZ, Jamaica, GB, and good friends in Germany and Australia, and almost moved to NZ about 20 years ago.
In our present state, I kick myself in the ass for not doing so.
We are quickly becoming a "Shit Hole".
A. Jones Added Jan 13, 2018 - 12:58am
But these houses are built according to climate
 
All houses are built according to climate.
 
And trust me, such a life is a LOT easier
 
There are many people on WriterBeat would trust anyone with an IQ of 50. That yours was 90 is reason enough for them to believe anything you say.
 
"Mali is one of the world's poorest nations, ranking 178 out of 1782 countries on the 2009 UN Human Development Index. According to the World Bank, Mali’s Gross National Income (GNI) per capita is US $580. [NB: In 2016, Mali's GNI was $779. The U.S.'s GNI for the same year was $57,638. GNI for Switzerland in 2016 was $79,890.]
 
The proportion of the country’s poor people decreased from 68.3 per cent in 2001 to 59.2 per cent in 2005. But Mali is still among the world's 10 poorest nations. The UNDP estimates that 72 per cent of the population lives on less than US$2 a day with 36 per cent living on less than US$1 a day."
 
Sounds great, doesn't it?
 
The truth is that other people's poverty and desperation always appear charming and quaint when one is in it, but not of it; that is, when one is a white European who can return to Switzerland anytime he wants.
A. Jones Added Jan 13, 2018 - 1:02am
"Most women in Mali are subjected to traditional roles that have changed little over the last century, especially in rural areas. Violence against women, including wife beating, is tolerated and common. Approximately 94 per cent of women undergo Female Genital Mutilation."
 
As Stone-Eater confirms above: "And trust me, such a life is a LOT easier :-)"
Leroy Added Jan 13, 2018 - 8:49am
By any objective standard, Haiti is a shithole.  Should a president go around calling a spade a spade?  Any other president could do it behind closed doors, but not Trump.  It's doubtful that he actually said it, but, it would not surprise me either. 
Rusty Smith Added Jan 13, 2018 - 11:49am
Autumn Cote  I am not sure how you measure the "comment on the work of others" but it's been almost a month since I've posted an article of my own and in that entire time all I've done is respond to other people's comments.
 
I'd sure like to see some sort of indicator that tells us when we can safely post a comment of our own.  
Rusty Smith Added Jan 13, 2018 - 12:07pm
Stone-Eater Friedli most of the world that can barely afford a TV thinks they would be better off if they could get the the US, and if they are poor, that's true, especially if they are poor by their own countries standards.
 
Our poster child Haiti, only 38% of households have electricity.
 
If they come here they don't have to become wealthy to afford things like free health care, healthy food, and schools that only the rich in their own country can afford.  
 
Do we have problems, but anyone who thinks they are worse off than the poor in third world countries should get out more.  I've been to third world countries and the sheer number of people who live in dire poverty with no access to even rudimentary sanitation or health care is staggering.  Our homeless have far better lives than they do.
Rusty Smith Added Jan 13, 2018 - 12:10pm
Bill H. having traveled a bit I'm sure you have seen real poverty and doubt you'd ever consider retiring to a place like Haiti.  
 
The existence of real nice places does not make the bad ones disappear or make them equivalent to places like the US.
Rusty Smith Added Jan 13, 2018 - 12:14pm
Flying Junior can you please elaborate, you did not provide enough context for us to tell which comment you are responding to, or the reasons why.  
 
Do keep in mind that we low IQ folks can't read your mind.
John Minehan Added Jan 13, 2018 - 1:18pm
The current First Captain at USMA is an immigrant from Haiti.  We benefit from immigration from Haiti BECAUSE it is a "shithole."
 
Does anyone come here because their native land ISN'T a "sh-thole?" Ireland during the Famine, Russia during the Pogroms, Tong on the Isle of Lewis during the Depression . . . .
Rusty Smith Added Jan 13, 2018 - 5:59pm
John Minehan I think "shit hole" is a very relative term but generally people usually try to move when they think the place they will go its a lot better than where they are coming from.
 
With our recent Haiti immigrants there entire argument for the sake of obtaining temporary residency was that their homeland wasn't a fit place to live during their temporary residency in the US.
 
If I fled a terrible storm and really liked the house of someone who gave me temporary refuge in their home, I'd never dream of telling them I'm going to stay because I like you house better than mine.
 
That's what the Haitians who came here are saying.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Jan 14, 2018 - 2:11am
Is Haiti a shithole is a lot like asking if the Kennedys are gun shy.
Thomas Napers Added Jan 14, 2018 - 5:27am
Using profanity is certainly a form of not being politically correct, but I’m unaware of Trump tweeting profanity in the past.  So this is new ground from Trump and not the type of language we should expect from the POTUS.
 
As far as Haitians going back home, what does that have to do with Trump’s remark?  Conservatives need to get it through their fat heads that immigrants from shit hole countries are not going back home anytime soon.  To move forward, we need better border enforcement and we need to find a way to cohabitate with the ones already here. 
opher goodwin Added Jan 14, 2018 - 7:04am
Rudeness and arrogance are inexcusable. They are the standard fare of an unpleasant character.
Perhaps the States should clean up its own shit holes before it applies its vulgarity and racist views on other peoples' homelands.
Would I prefer to live in a ghetto of Chicago or live in Haiti or Africa? I'd settle for Haiti or Africa any time. The people are warm and friendly. They are polite. They have community. They might not have material wealth but they have human wealth.
I think Americans should get abroad more and open their eyes.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jan 14, 2018 - 7:49am
Well if we are calling a spade a spade, as someone mentioned, let's take it under those parameters.  What makes the nation of Haiti a shithole is the long running tradition of corrupt and murderous warlords having the run of the country for much of it's history. 
Leroy Added Jan 14, 2018 - 8:02am
It's a shame really.  Haiti is the only sovereign state to be formed from a slave revolt.  It has a great history.  Too bad it went down the toilet.  But the statists were well rewarded along the way as they sold their nation out.
Stone-Eater Added Jan 14, 2018 - 8:59am
Jones
 
Go to Mali and find out about those stastistics. Thought error....
 
John Minehan Added Jan 14, 2018 - 9:13am
When I was a Soldier, I spent a fair amount of time in the Middle East and Africa and I found myself looking into the DDR a time or two.  But the materially poorest place I ever saw was the Apache Country in Arizona.  
Rusty Smith Added Jan 14, 2018 - 11:09am
Thomas Napers Trump didn't tweet that he considers Haiti to be a shit hole, he is reported to have said it in a closed door meeting by a participant who wants to make trouble for him.  Trump says he didn't but I don't care if he did.  
 
Profanity in closed door presidential meetings is hardly "un-presidential".  Profanity seems to have been historically common with many past presidents and less offensive to me than many other much more salacious things some past presidents have done in the White House.
 
Profanity is not my style but it is not uncommon n in heated upper management meetings, and Trump is not a real politician, he's a business man.
Rusty Smith Added Jan 14, 2018 - 11:13am
opher goodwin  many people behave differently behind closed doors than they do in church, when their around children, or have cameras pointed at them.  
 
I never yell unless something is about to fall on someone, and I don't use profanity in business, but it's so common in business and I presume politics that I'd never be too critical of someone who uses it a little, even in politics.
Rusty Smith Added Jan 14, 2018 - 11:16am
Leroy I think everyone including most of those people hoped they could prove they were just as civilized and intelligent as the citizens of other modern countries.  Unfortunately they seem to have proved they don't have what it takes to police and govern themselves like many other small countries do.  The proof is in the pudding.
Rusty Smith Added Jan 14, 2018 - 11:21am
John Minehan  many people living on reservations appear to be more destitute than people in other countries living subsistence lifestyles because the US gives Native Americans just enough welfare to live on, and that keeps them in the lowest level of perpetual generational poverty.
 
People with subsistence lifestyles in third world countries have to work to live, and will always appear to have a better lifestyle.
 
However don't ever lose sight of what Native Americans have that no third world countries offer, opportunity, and free access to things like a good education and healthcare that isn't even slightly available in third world countries.
Dino Manalis Added Jan 14, 2018 - 1:33pm
Trump should always act presidential, even when he's talking off the record, because he has many opponents who constantly find opportunities to criticize him.  Of course, most new immigrants won't be from Europe, because it's developed, most immigrants come from developing countries, seeking a better way of life.  We ought to welcome all legal immigrants anywhere they come from.
Rusty Smith Added Jan 14, 2018 - 11:46pm
Dino Manalis I guess you could say that about everyone, we should always behave well, but few of us do all the time and I don't expect Trump to either.
 
Incidentally I  think he's much more polite than some of his predecessors like LBJ who was an absolute jerk when cameras weren't' around.  
 
I also think this is such a tiny infraction that it shows how little real dirt there is out there.  If reporters had anything real to talk about they wouldn't be desperately trying to make this into a news.
 
IMG, next we'll hear how he was caught picking his nose.
Bill Kamps Added Jan 15, 2018 - 9:12am
Most countries have some parts that are a shit hole.  Some more than others, and of course it is all in the eye of the beholder.
 
Should the President be saying things like this, it is not wise, and not helpful, but that is Trump.  It goes back to the difference between being CEO and President.  One has pretty much absolute power, the other relies a lot on the power of persuasion.  Trump is a lot better at being CEO than President at this point.
 
It is kind of funny that Trump's Mara Lago resort is staffed with a fair number of Haitian seasonal workers. 
 
 
Rusty Smith Added Jan 15, 2018 - 11:39am
Bill Kamps I'll say the same to you that I said to other people, your view of "presidential" is what you are accustomed to seeing them do in very public situations, like when they are giving speeches or being filmed on formal occasions.  That is very different from what many presidents routinely did in private meetings.  Many other presidents swore like sailors and ripped into people they were angry with in private, and then acted quite "presidential" when the cameras were on.  Some even recorded themselves doing it, so we don't even have to guess.
 
The setting this time was a very private meeting and I think what he said is pretty benign.  I'm sure he's said much worse in private, I know I have and I'm a person who NEVER swears or raises my voice at work.  I don't doing so is necessary, ever justified or would help me in business but I work with people who do all the time.  I think less of them than I would if they remained civil, but realize many are very talented and valuable to their companies despite that fault.
 
Trump is clearly not a traditional politician, he's a very successful big business man who has talents, skills, and good and bad qualities for the job of president.  Neither party likes him, even most of his own party hates him because he's trying to clean house and many of them have targets on their back.  That hardly engenders cooperation that is essential to get anything done, but I dare say, using spicy language in a private meeting is hardly a significant fault that I think will make him look less presidential than past presidents.
Bill Kamps Added Jan 15, 2018 - 11:58am
Rusty, let me be clear, because I think you misunderstood me.  What Trump says and how he says it bothers me not a bit.  Whether he says it in private or in an address to the nation, bothers me not a bit.  I dont think I said anything about him being or not being "Presidential". 
 
I merely speculated that it may affect his ability to get things done, because the cooperation of others is necessary to get things done.  On this it appears we may agree.
 
While he is shaking up conventional wisdom, the only house cleaning I see him doing is getting rid of people he never should have appointed in the  first place.  People like Priebus never were really on his side, and people like Spicer were clearly in over their head, Flynn had too much baggage.  Priebus especially for Chief of Staff was a head scratcher since Priebus was against him most of the campaign, being a traditional GOP hack.
 
For me the jury is still out how on how effective he will be.  His first year was ok, but I think it would have been better had he appointed a better initial team, and didnt waste so much time replacing so many of his senior staff.
 
 
Rusty Smith Added Jan 15, 2018 - 11:09pm
Bill Kamps I generally agree with what you said, and even go as far as thinking he'd be a much better president if someone would just take his phone away.  
Mark Hunter Added Jan 16, 2018 - 4:43am
I'm not sure how calling a shithole a shithole makes someone racist. However, whether something qualifies for that term can be subjective: I'm sure Donald Trump would think my house a shithole: It's old, decrepit, and poor. To complicate matters further, there are plenty of countries--probably most--that are both paradise and shithole, depending on what part of them you end up in. In any case, whether he said that are not, it appears the language he uses behind closed doors isn't any worse than the language used by many other politicians. (For instance, Joe Biden dropping the F-Bomb during the Obamacare signing ceremony.)  It seems how bad a politician's cursing and badmouthing is depending on whether the commentator already liked him/her or not.
 
But yes, please, somebody take Trump's phone away.
Rusty Smith Added Jan 16, 2018 - 11:46pm
Mark Hunter I tend to think the people who used this as an excuse to call him a racist were just looking for an excuse to badmouth him and call him a racist.  
Mark Hunter Added Jan 17, 2018 - 1:28pm
I'm sure you're right, Rusty.
Flying Junior Added Jan 18, 2018 - 3:05am
Changing course a little bit. I think it’s disgusting all of this hysteria being generated about so-called chain immigration.
 
WTF is wrong with people bringing over more of their families? These are Americans with jobs and homes. I think it’s beautiful. Remember, even Filipinos aren’t automatically American citizens unless they happen to have served in the Navy. I knew a wonderful lady who came to the U.S. Then she helped all of her younger siblings become U.S. citizens. Some of the family remains in the Philippines. The Abuelita just couldn’t leave her island.
 
Where I live, people from Mexico and Guatemala have promoted their families.  When a new person becomes a citizen it is cause for great celebration.  They have to pass a civics test that would most likely fail the average American.  Usually that person has already been working with a green card.  We have a large and successful population of Iraqi Chaldeans who contribute to our city.  You can believe that they try to help their families make it to the U.S.  We also have a substantial Muslim population that has immigrated in recent history.  Now the French immigrants are always getting into trouble.  Just kidding.
 
Trump and his supporters are fools to advocate tearing apart families.
 
Whites and Latinos make up about equal portions of the population of California. Of course that has more to do with reproduction than immigration.  Do you think it bothers me?  I love it!  I get to practice my Spanish.  I get to have fun with Spanglish. For the most part, these are people that you can trust.  Last year I gave a ten-year old kid a nice reconditioned mountain bike that he should be able to ride until he is at least fifteen years old.
 
Back to the topic.  Didn't Trump call just about every nation in the Caribbean, South America and Africa a shithole?  Why do people care about his latest outrage?  His currency is doing and saying really horrible things.
 
Jeffry beat me to the punch with the funniest line.  But I couldn't bring myself to say it remembering how my mom visited Washington D.C. with her high school class.  That's where the MLK Jr. and Lincoln Memorials are located, after all.
 
Trump's mouth is the biggest shithole in the world today.
Leroy Added Jan 18, 2018 - 8:36am
I'm against chain migration.  I'll qualify that.  You should be able to bring your spouse to the US and any natural born or adopted children under 18.  The process should be easy.  And, you should be able to bring your parents.  All this provided that you agree not to let them become a burden on the state and, if they do, you agree to reimburse the state, up to the point when they become a citizen.  I was able to bring my wife and son to the US, but it took the intervention of my Senator to do so.  It is a hassle if you follow the law. 
 
I say this knowing that one of my favorite persons came to the US from Africa via chain migration.  The original relative won the immigration lottery.   Now the whole extended family is here.  That's the part I don't understand.  If you are a brother or sister or nephew or uncle, etc., immigration is technically possible but the waiting list is so long that it might as well be impossible, yet it happens.  The young man referred to above was a cousin.  His brother applied for visas from Africa and was denied each time.  He went to Europe and applied and was allowed to enter the US.  That's the key.  Once you are here, you are goldened.  You can apply and you can stay until they say you can't, and then you can appeal.  You pay a lawyer, and magically it is approved.
 
Chain migration needs to end.  It was said recently that three out of four terrorists since 9/11 were born outside the US.  They are not properly vetted. 
 
I'm all for letting people in the country who will contribute.  It should be merit-based and not country-based.  And, there needs to be consideration for the ability to integrate.  I will go even further and say we should recruit such people.  I have no problem brain-draining the rest of the world.
Rusty Smith Added Jan 19, 2018 - 12:06am
Flying Junior I'm not sure where you live but where I live we have lots of dirt poor people from Mexico who don't carry their weight so American Taxpayers who are much more affluent have to subsidize them.  That's not just true with the ones who come her to pick fruit and then stay here all year, it's just as true with most of their families who come here to be with them and get all the great stuff they can't get in their own country like a great free education for their children, free healthcare, and even benefits for Grandma and Grandpa even if they come here after never paying a penny into our tax system.
 
They may be great people but our country is like a fine restaurant, and even you would probably object if a few thousand people who had no money showed up next time you went out to eat and wanted to split the bill with you, based of course on who has money.
 
Right now someone who comes her illegally can deliver a baby here and that child is a citizen, unlike what would be true in most other countries, even their own, thanks to a constitutional amendment that was created to give citizenship to the children of slaves a long time ago.  Then they can use that child as a anchor baby so the mom and dad, and then later the rest of the family, and even relatives, can come here too, because we don't want to split up families, even if none of them make enough money to cover the social benefits they consume.  Some how we forget or forgive the fact that if they had followed the rules they and their infant children would have gone home with their parents and never had any memory of the US.
 
Ok so you are feeling generous and decide to offer your relative who lost their house in a hurricane last month an extra room you have in your house until they get back on their feet.  Sounds good to me, but then a year later on they tell you they like your house better than their own, milk your sympathy by telling you their house is in a shit hole, so they have decided to stay in your guest room forever.
 
Now, tell me how you respond, and how that's not the same as what the Haitians want us to let them do.
Flying Junior Added Jan 19, 2018 - 3:10am
What does Haiti have to do with it?  Trump burned several nations.  Dammit!  We need a transcript.  At the least we do know he said, "Shithole countries."  He didn't single out Haiti that we know of.
 
I will confess, I live in one of the nicer suburbs of bordertown Reagan Country.  I'm ten minutes away from the La Jolla beaches.  And yes, I live in a predominately white neighborhood.  Still we are integrated.  Urban black professionals and Mexican landscapers live on my block or nearby.  But I can ride my bike to where the less prosperous Mexicans live.  I love seeing them.  And I kid you not.  We really are one big happy family.  Everyone seems to be getting by or even thriving.  Crime is extremely low.  Mexicans and Guatemalans are the best value for gardeners, handymen, housekeeping, painting and carpentry.  The white guys with the late-model V-8 pickup trucks charge two to three times as much for identical work.
 
But if you can afford it, I recommend my white neighbor for home remodeling.  One of the finest contractors and craftsmen I have ever encountered.
 
There is no reason this model can't work nation-wide.  The big lie is that we don't have enough money and resources to provide for our people.  The caricature is the monster Trump who demands even more for the 1%.
 
One World is enough for all of us.
Rusty Smith Added Jan 19, 2018 - 8:58pm
Flying Junior I think if you look closely money is what makes where you live a much nicer place than most of the poor countries like Haiti.  I suspect their are some parts of even Haiti where the people are "RICH" enough to live like you do, but not most and without giving them money, (yours or other people's), you can't help them, here or there.
 
If you and all the rich gave all your money to the worlds poor, they would only be a tiny bit better off.  There just aren't enough resources to make everyone rich even if they all had the money they don't have to buy all the good stuff.  There are no huge piles of "the good stuff" and good houses and good food being horded by all those terrible rich folks. 
 
The super rich can afford to buy the best, but always remember the good stuff will always be in short supply compared to all the poor people who would like a slice of it.
Flying Junior Added Jan 20, 2018 - 2:46am
I'm not really rich.  I am a bit lucky.
 
Nice talking to you Rusty.  I'll see you again.
Rusty Smith Added Jan 28, 2018 - 11:40am
Flying Junior I bet 99% of the people in Haiti would say you're rich.  I'm pretty sure you have much better access to healthcare and a good education than they do.