Once More Atheists Prove They Are In Error

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Have you been told by atheists that saying " God did it " does not explain anything? Do they say God is simply a God of the gaps, that when we do not understand something Christians say: ' God did it"? What atheists are saying is that the God Hypothesis explains nothing. They are right, at least in the way they say it. 

 

Now, when they make this argument they are telling us that believing in God explains nothing. Obviously, Christians do not believe this but lets take them at their word.

 

So what we know have to ask atheists is why would ancient man with no idea of god explain what they do not understand by saying god did it, when as atheists know so well, saying God did it does not explain anything?

 

A group of persons who know nothing about god, do not have a word for god or an idea of god and have never discussed or debated the issue of god would hardly decide to say god did it as an explanation when god would mean no more to them than luthea means to us. Would you agree with anyone who told you that luthea did it, regardless of what you asked? So why would someone who has no idea what a god is take as an explanation, god did it?

 

Once more atheists are proven wrong simply by the degree of stupidity inherent in their arguments.

 

Think of a group of cavemen looking at lightening (which they have seen as apes and all those intervening forms), for millions of years. One day they become scared of lightening and Og says, god did it. The rest look at Og and say, are you nuts? who or what is god? So now imagine Og trying to convince the rest of the tribe that this idea of god is an explanation for lightning, or anything else?

 

If you have a problem with this just think of Og explaining; "luthea did it", and you can see how preposterous the idea is that cavemen invented the idea of god to explain natural phenomenon? If that is what they were even trying to do why would they not seek a natural explanation?

 

See how dumb the idea is that ancient man created the idea of god to explain what he did not understand, when of course it does not answer the question of why would man create something he did not understand to explain something he did not understand?

 

Man never created the idea of God. Because there is no benefit to it which even atheists admit, which means atheists formulated an explanation which they admit explains nothing. So, what we need to ask is why would atheists use the idea of god to explain the idea of god when they know for a fact the idea of god explains nothing? 

 

Hmmmmm?

Comments

opher goodwin Added Feb 14, 2018 - 7:12am
I presume you have some recordings of cavemen saying these things? You have some divine knowledge of the things cavemen talked about?
I thought not. 
I think the whole basis of your argument is, like religion, based on fiction.
opher goodwin Added Feb 14, 2018 - 7:17am
As a biologist it is easy to see that human thinking is based on an evolutionary basis. We are programmed, indeed hardwired, to look for patterns and find solutions. When confronted with things we do not understand we still seek answers. When we can't understand them we make things up. Some of these are creation myths, some are explanations of suns, moons and stars, days, weather and seasons. We've created all manner of great stories, religions and gods. Most are long forgotten, some we are still saddled with. Some are ludicrous and fun, some have created wars, repression, torture and fanatic murderous power-seeking stupidity.
Phil Greenough Added Feb 14, 2018 - 9:09am
 So what we know have to ask atheists is why would ancient man with no idea of god explain what they do not understand by saying god did it, when as atheists know so well, saying God did it does not explain anything?
 
 
Two points.  1) You really need to work on your grammar.  I see a lot of mistakes in this question and many other sentences as well.  2) It doesn’t matter if you’re an atheist or not, it makes complete sense for ancient man to explain what he did not understand by believing there was a higher being.  The same is true for modern man. 
Robert Burk Added Feb 14, 2018 - 9:44am
Phil/opher I see neither of you responding to the point made and that is if you do not believe in god, do not know what a god is and you see an issue or problem I see no leap whereby the unknown is explained by a further unknown, that is the issue. You can claim it makes perfect sense but I have already claimed it makes no sense at all so at the best all you have acheived is a mexican standoff.
 
Robert Burk Added Feb 14, 2018 - 9:46am
This modern arrogance, (which is all your position is) is belied by ancient mans ability to create great engineering and agricultural feats. No one said when faced with the problem of designing a megalith, god will figure it out. It is almost shameful how you denigrate the acheivements of the past just to justify a false claim.
 
Leroy Added Feb 14, 2018 - 10:09am
"I presume you have some recordings of cavemen saying these things? "
 
Now, now, Opher.  I am sure I could locate a dozen video recordings of this on the internet...lol.
 
Who was it that said, "If there were no god, man would create one?"  We seem to need a god.  Most atheists create their own god in one form or another.  The Climate Change group created their own god in the name of science.  There are many such examples.  God is convenient for explaining the things we can't explain.  God is also convenient for a select few to hold power over others.  It is quite easy to see this process if one were to look at Climate Change objectively.
 
 
opher goodwin Added Feb 14, 2018 - 10:12am
Robert  - I can't even follow your logic, if there is any. I certainly was not denigrating ancient man. Their intelligence was just as great as ours and they achieved a lot - however, they did not have the benefit of science or modern technology so their understanding was flawed.
Bill Kamps Added Feb 14, 2018 - 11:42am
Robert, people say "God did it" because that is the best explanation they can come up with.   OF COURSE they created God to explain natural phenomenon, among other things.  The early Native Americans had a god for the mountain, the wind, the river, what more evidence do you need?  The Mayans made sacrifices to their god to make it rain, why did they do that? because they thought someone or some thing controlled the rain.
Doug Plumb Added Feb 14, 2018 - 1:29pm
You need God to explain conscience and freewill.
Bill Added Feb 14, 2018 - 3:42pm
Technically, every time American currency changes hands, it's because of faith in God.
 
In the 1970s our currency was taken off the precious metal standard: it's only worth anything, technically, because of God. "In God We Trust", emblazoned on all US currency, is an affirmation of faith, and the only thing that backs the value of our currency. There is no gold in some vault that makes a dollar a dollar, just our faith in God.
 
So, we should ask all American atheists to give up their money, technically, if they don't have faith in God, they don't recognize the value of a dollar...
Doug Plumb Added Feb 14, 2018 - 4:15pm
They should - imagine if we all lined up at the banks to give them their money back. They would insist that we still owe them more. There is no promissary value - God is not backing this currency, Satan is.
Stone-Eater Added Feb 14, 2018 - 5:55pm
Yawn. 
opher goodwin Added Feb 14, 2018 - 7:09pm
Doug - no you don't. Conscience and free will (if it exists) are the natural result of social evolution.
opher goodwin Added Feb 14, 2018 - 7:09pm
Bill - currency is another fiction that we created. It is imbued with that in order to help people believe in it.
George N Romey Added Feb 14, 2018 - 7:19pm
SEF you are right. Like the possibility of aliens unproven either way.
opher goodwin Added Feb 15, 2018 - 6:59am
Robes - it is one of the many fictions that we created following the cognitive revolution. God, nations, leaders, kings, presidents and money. They are all fictions. Kings and Presidents are just people - they are nothing special. Nations are artificial creations. Money has no intrinsic value.
They were created to provide the myth and unity that large groups of humans need in order to exist together. Without these fictions order breaks down. They work.
Because they work doesn't mean they are real.
opher goodwin Added Feb 15, 2018 - 7:02am
Doug - there have been many runs on banks. When that happens there are big problems. Governments and order collapses. When people lose belief in the currency it falls. We have seen the collapse of currencies around the world - Germany after World War 2 - Zimbabwe ten years ago. 
When China takes over the Yen will rule and the Dollar will collapse. Fictions are ephemeral.
Leroy Added Feb 15, 2018 - 7:21am
"When China takes over the Yen will rule and the Dollar will collapse. "
 
Don't pin your hopes on China to destroy the American menace (according to Opher's world).  The Chinese economy is a house of cards.  One should never believe ANYTHING that the Chinese government says.  The Chinese economy will falter when its population of workers goes into decline, which will happen.  There is no question about it.  China is the land of many laws.  It has some of the strongest worker protection laws of any nation.  But, the laws are selectively enforced.  In effect, there is no rule of law in China.  I have experienced how the law works firsthand.  No nation that does not respect the rule of law can never be a world leader.  It is simply the triumph of hope over experience.
Dino Manalis Added Feb 15, 2018 - 8:55am
Belief in God or gods gives us hope and endurance, because science and money can't solve everything!  Prayer is powerful!
Robert Burk Added Feb 15, 2018 - 8:55am
Opher. Well I do not follow your logic, if ancient man was just as intelligent (I say more but lets let that lay), and they could find logical and scientific solutions to agriculture and archeticture, for example, why would they suddenly go off on a tangent and say, god did it when they did not have any idea of what a god was or why god would even explain anything. Unless you want to claim apes (i assume you are an evolutionist), believe god exists?
 
 
Bill, people say god did it when they have a god, please try and follow my argument, what I am asking is why would someone say, god did it who had no conception of god, and animists do not believe in gods they believe in spirits basically the idea that trees are people like us to be made friends with and not offend, no more different than other tribes.
 
I repeat, when we have x we can use x to explain y. But atheists all claim x explains absolutely nothing. So I repeat, given that no ancient man knew what god was or had any use for god and given that saying god did it explains nothing and solves nothing why would ancient man create the explanatory idea of god when in fact the concept explains nothing... In short I claim atheists create a contradiction which not one of you are even willing to confront let alone make any effort to reconcile.
 
opher goodwin Added Feb 15, 2018 - 9:47am
Leroy - China is sending its tendrils are around the world - property in London, real estate in Africa, South America and Oman. It is playing a slow game. I don't see a house of cards.
opher goodwin Added Feb 15, 2018 - 9:54am
Robert - man evolved 200,000 years ago. We haven't changed much at all since then. Our intelligence potential hasn't changed. We started agriculture about 100,000 years ago. We used our intelligence to solve problems. The problems we could not solve - such as why the sun comes up, what the moon is and what death is. Those we could not understand. We invented god and gods. There's nothing difficult about it.
Bill Added Feb 15, 2018 - 2:18pm
Opher,
You say 
We invented god and gods. There's nothing difficult about it.
 
Actually it is very difficult. Unlike all the all "fictions" you mention, including money, government, kings, etc., the belief in god/gods is a complete waste of time if in fact he/she/it/they don't exist at all.
 
Think about it, when humans entered history (aka started using written language that we can decipher today) they already came in with a belief in god/gods. WHY??? Everything else they appeared to believe in held a TANGIBLE, practical reason to believe in it. They were living hand-to-mouth, what purpose did believing in some unseen god/gods serve?
 
You could make the argument that belief in god/gods created a Marxian "opiate" to keep people in line. But wouldn't threats of severe bodily harm be better? 
Thomas Napers Added Feb 16, 2018 - 4:08am
Have you been told by atheists that saying " God did it " does not explain anything?
 
No.  An atheist doesn't believe in God, so I highly doubt any would blame/credit something on God.  If an atheist said something like that, he or she wouldn't be an atheist. 
opher goodwin Added Feb 16, 2018 - 6:36am
Bill - it is basic psychology. It's called association. Many athletes do this. They associate things together even though these are totally unrelated. A classic example is a very successful English batsmen who used to get wound up before going in to bat. He went to the toilet and his teammates sellotaped his bat to the ceiling. When he came out he panicked when he couldn't find it. He went into bat and made a huge score. From that day on he always taped his bat to the ceiling before he went in. He thought it brought him luck.
In olden days the same sort of associations would take place with changing seasons, coming of rains, end of diseases - all manner of things. They were associated with ceremonies, prayers, feasts, fasting, sacrifices, costumes etc. The sun rose because the god was pleased. The climate became warm again because the gods were placated.
Basic human psychology. We all do it - touching wood, black cats and lucky numbers.
opher goodwin Added Feb 16, 2018 - 6:37am
Thomas - great observation.
Bill Added Feb 16, 2018 - 12:07pm
Opher,
Thanks, that was really interesting!
 
But as an example I knock on wood for good luck. I don't know why I do it, but I don't attach any association with God in that regard. 
 
Ancient people would conduct ceremonies for rain and such, but I don't understand the connection between trying to get good luck, and God. For good luck, you don't really know/care where it comes from, you just want it. The concept of a higher being seems much deeper than searching for luck.
 
It is something very intangible, and yet really important. For prehistoric man, there really isn't anything else like it. Everything else has to do with just basic survival. Of course we like to think of prehistoric man as being brutish and supremely ignorant, but I'd like to think that they were a lot smarter than we give them credit for....
 
Sure, your answer with associations makes total sense concerning luck, many of us do it in some way, but it doesn't concerning a belief in God. HOW DO YOU MAKE THAT LEAP?
 
Edgeucation Newmedia Added Feb 16, 2018 - 4:15pm
"Some people wonder why God allows War, Hunger and Poverty in our world. Perhaps God wonders why we allow it."  The Prophet of Life
Stone-Eater Added Feb 17, 2018 - 5:23am
Robespierre
 
Bonjour :) I didn't decide that really. My personal logic and interest in science led me to that automatically since I was a kid. A plus was that my parents never tried to push me in any direction.
 
But I can live very well with believers as long as they're no hypocrits. My wife and my business partner and friend are Muslims. So what LOL
Robert Burk Added Feb 17, 2018 - 5:51am
I feel no need to reply to any of the above comments except to say Bill makes the only valid and relevant point. The association of luck rites with inventing gods is bizarre to say the least. Throwing babies into flames to save ones people from the Isrealites is many powers beyond rubbing a rabbits foot.  None of you have the courage to confront the thesis given above. Let me try and state it more simply and clearly so you can focus on the issue of the OP.
 
Atheists say belief has no validity, it produces no results, provides no answers, gives no solutions, it is totally pointless and without merit. OK.... so that is the atheist position.
 
So, the next question is, so how did gods come about. Atheist suggest ancient mankind fabricated them. So, I ask why when they are not an answer to anything?
 
OK, so here is the punch line.... either belief fulfills some purpose and produces a result to the degree it creates a reinforcement or it does not which means the belief would die out over the millenia atheists say mankind evolved?
 
For those who say mankind was stupid and could not think of a rational solution then you need to explain why he was perfectly able to fashion elegant solutions to the problem of math, astronomy, and many other things a lot of which is beyond modern mans understanding. Why did ancient man understand one needed to find practical solutions to everything else but went off the rails when thinking about why bad things happened?
 
So, please clear your mind, take a deep breathe and look at the condundrum you yourself created and deal face on with the issue. Thanks
 
Robert Burk Added Feb 17, 2018 - 5:58am
Let me add a rider... Opher says we solved the problems we could and the problems we could not eg why the sun comes up we invented gods... why? What was the point since it answers nothing? I cannot figure out why I get tired some nights and 8 and other nights I do not... I do not say god did it... i just do not know. In fact of all the things I did not know it never entered my head to think god did it. I rejected god and evolution for 30 years in all of that time I did not think god did it (nor did I think nature did it), I actually believed I did not know how life came about. You still do not know how life comes about and you do not believe God did it so you do not know and you live with that... but you cannot even give ancient man that level of humanity to say... I do not know.
 
Leroy Added Feb 17, 2018 - 9:34am
"China is sending its tendrils are around the world - property in London, real estate in Africa, South America and Oman. It is playing a slow game. I don't see a house of cards."
 
It is necessary to ask oneself "Why?"  I tell you why; it is a hedge against the collapse of the RMB.  There are the State Owned Enterprises (SOEs) and individuals.  The Chinese government has cracked down on the SOEs.  That is why you don't hear so much about it today.  You can't be wealthy in China without the approval of the government, at least that is what the Chinese tell me.  Many of the wealthy are planning their escape from China.  Some are investing in the future of their children.  The Chinese are not long-term thinkers, contrary to popular belief.
George N Romey Added Feb 17, 2018 - 12:39pm
You cannot prove there is a god. Nor can you disprove. Folklore is not proof. 
James Travil Added Feb 18, 2018 - 1:51am
Mr. Romey summed it up quite well I think. No one ever heard of any fictional characters until someone invented them. Doesn’t make fiction into fact.
Robert Burk Added Feb 18, 2018 - 4:16am
Lord, thanks for curing me of atheism.
 
James Travil Added Feb 18, 2018 - 4:42am
Satan, thanks for curing me of theism  Oh wait, I never was gullible enough to believe that garbage  lol! 
Robert Burk Added Feb 18, 2018 - 5:31am
James, Even 10 year olds have the capacity to ridicule.
 
James Travil Added Feb 18, 2018 - 12:58pm
Come on now Robert, you can do better than that as a reply! Well maybe you can't. 
Stone-Eater Added Feb 18, 2018 - 3:00pm
I wonder sometimes about how contradictory believers are. They believe in a god but not in the number 42, Pennywise or the Spaghetti Monster.
 
Why ?
 
All of them are no proven fact. So either you believe all or none LOL
Shane Laing Added Feb 18, 2018 - 4:39pm
42 is a proven fact Stone I agree. I was speaking to Deep Thought the other day and he told me so lol.
Shane Laing Added Feb 18, 2018 - 5:24pm
God is all around, is all powerful, see and knows all apparently.  We are all gods children according to some.  Estimated 300,000 to a million died due to famine in the 1980s (remember the pictures from Ethiopia) caused by the rains failing.  If god is all powerful as he created the earth I'm sure he could have waved his (or her) hand the rain, could have fell and those ten of thousands of innocent children would not have died in pain through starvation.  If we are all gods children then I don't want a dad like him.
Doug Plumb Added Feb 18, 2018 - 8:38pm
re "You cannot prove there is a god. Nor can you disprove. Folklore is not proof.  "
 
You can prove that the world does not exist as you see it in solid scientific terms. Add freewill to that and you are as close as you can get to proving God and completely discrediting a purely materialistic view of the world. My movie, Dialectic does this.
Stone-Eater Added Feb 19, 2018 - 8:04am
Shane
 
"god gave us free will". A clever way to avoid your question and prevent demanding proof of its existence and intentions...
opher goodwin Added Feb 19, 2018 - 11:22am
Bill - it all goes back to the days of animism. All nature was imbued with gods. There was the god of the sun, the god of the moon, the trees, the rivers, the rocks and storms. They were all alive and all considered gods. This developed into the polytheism we see with the development of agriculture and this developed into the monotheist religions. Belief in luck is belief in the power of supernatural gods. The knocking on wood is a throwback to when we worshipped the gods that resided in trees and called on them to intercede.
opher goodwin Added Feb 19, 2018 - 11:24am
Shane - ha - we might as well believe in superman.
opher goodwin Added Feb 19, 2018 - 11:27am
Doug - You can prove that the world does not exist as you see it in solid scientific terms. Add freewill to that and you are as close as you can get to proving God and completely discrediting a purely materialistic view of the world. My movie, Dialectic does this.
Quantum theory does indicate that there is much more to the universe than solid Newtonian physics. But your extrapolations are simply you putting your spin on it. You don't get any nearer proving there's a god.
Bill Added Feb 19, 2018 - 1:22pm
Opher, 
You have: 
Belief in luck is belief in the power of supernatural gods. The knocking on wood is a throwback to when we worshipped the gods that resided in trees and called on them to intercede.
 
But we don't live in ancient times. That's like saying when atheist Americans today use US currency (which is only officially backed by God: "In God We Trust"), that atheists technically believe in the authority of God. 
 
It may be that the origins of luck may have to do with the belief in gods, but how could people make that leap to belief in gods in the first place?
 
Secondarily, despite all the time and travails, the vast majority of humanity still believes in god/gods. And over half of humanity believe in THE EXACT SAME GOD. 
Stone-Eater Added Feb 19, 2018 - 5:20pm
Bill
 
Of course. Human nature is such that one has to be the boss of the herd in a broader sense. All humans are basically the same so they come to the same conclusions but use different names according to their language.
Robert Burk Added Feb 20, 2018 - 5:44am
James, you gotta give to get. You want to post childish rubbish that is the level of the response you will get back.
 
Everyone else: Well, congratulations. We have decided to address animism and go from there, just as evolutionists tell us they have no idea how life originated but it had to come from natural processes so lets move on from that assumption. The entire point of the OP was that you cann explain why man would posit god as an meaningless explanation when he did not even know what god was or meant. Odd how the Christians understand this and all athesits deny it but refuse to try and solve the conundrum they themselves, created. And don't forget, us Christians are struggling under our brainwashing and closed minded superstitious nonesense whereas you guys are all cold, calculating scientifically minded, full aware logicians. You have solved everything so why not just tell us why men who invented advanced archetecture, math, husbandry and etc invented a meaningless idea to do absolutely nothing and solve absolutely nothing, which is what you say god is ie a big zero.
 
Bill Added Feb 20, 2018 - 11:04am
Stone!
 
BINGO! You say All humans are basically the same so they come to the same conclusions.
 
So, as an example, take Europeans and Native Americans. What you're saying is that despite 10s of thousands of years of physical separation, left to their own devices on opposite sides of the planet, both Europeans and Native Americans had independently come to belief in God/gods!
 
They came to the same conclusions! In Prehistoric times, everything else in their goddamn lives was an essential, hand-to-mouth existence, but they came to the same conclusions about God/gods. So, the belief in the divine is programmed into us naturally! I never thought of that before!
 
Leave it to a Swiss atheist, it's a fucking epiphany! Think about it!!!