The Devil's Advocate

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Greetings from the Abyss, my name is James Travil, but my friends call me JT. I am an active member of the Church of Satan.

 

I'm a lot of other things as well, but people who don't know me most often ask about my religion when they find out what it is. Actually a good deal of people just ASSume they already know about what I believe based on what they may have heard in their local Christian culture and movies, TV, that sort of thing. If that is where you get your information I'm sorry to disappoint you but us Satanists are nothing like that.

 

First what we are not, devil worshipers who sacrifice babies (or children, virgins, animals, etc). We are atheists. Satan is just a symbol for us. Nothing more. We don't worship Satan, we worship ourselves, our loved ones, and nature. Not some old man in the sky, or a horned imp under the ground. We abor people who harm children and animals. We believe in science and human nature, and rational common sense. We don't do magic or use sorcery (or psychic power) we dabble sometimes in the symbolism of the occult, but that's as far as it goes.

 

Most of us are solitary people, religiously that is, but I run a Grotto, which is a small gathering of fellow Satanists who get together on various occasions and party like it's the end of the world, Hellfire Club style! Only adults are invited to such hedonistic gatherings, we follow all laws, and respect the police and the laws of our country and civilized society.

 

I highly recommend www.churchofsatan.com for more background, although I'm quite open to answer any questions about me and my faith, or lack thereof to be more specific. I hope to engage with you all in the future on a variety of topics, so getting this out of the way is important so we can move forward.

 

All and all I'm quite the "normal" guy (whatever that is) and told I'm good to have as a friend, terrible as an enemy, so let's not go there. Let's instead enjoy existence and share with one another in this amazing journey called life. It's one hell of a ride. Or has been for me so far!

 

Ava Satanis -JT

 

Comments

EXPAT Added Feb 18, 2018 - 3:00am
JT. I make my own religion, and it is not based on other peoples doctrine.
If I needed a doctrine, I would not chose the #2 guy.
Live your life as you choose my man. That is what I do!
James Travil Added Feb 18, 2018 - 3:47am
That's fair EXPAT! Just understand we Satanists choose Satan as our mascot because he is the adversary of the predominant theistic religion of human oppression. If we lived in the Roman era it would be Hades. If it were mythos of India that was predominant globally our mascot would be Kali. There is I will admit something to be said for rooting for the underdog, especially when his imaginary opposition is such a complete douchebag, but that's not the primary reason for this. I do live by my own dictates, they just happen to be accord with the Church of Satan so I figured, why not? It's not like I'll end up in imaginary "Hell", I'll just piss off a lot of assholes, and I can live with that, lol! Thanks for the input. 
Autumn Cote Added Feb 18, 2018 - 4:33am
A warm welcome to Writer Beat!  Please note, your opening sentence and the image are arranged strangely.  To fix it, add some white space after the last sentence or the image.  You can edit previously submitted articles by clicking on your name in the upper right hand corner and then selecting the articles tab.
James Travil Added Feb 18, 2018 - 4:47am
Thanks for the welcome Autumn! I heard about this place from a friend of a friend, thought it sounded eccentric enough for my tastes. I am currently at a place where I have to use my phone to connect, I will fix the art
James Travil Added Feb 18, 2018 - 4:49am
... fix the article that is. Sunday afternoon. Ave Satanis 
Stone-Eater Added Feb 18, 2018 - 6:54am
Hi and welcome in our club. Refreshing, indeed :-)
 
As a fellow atheist without connection to any outer space symbol, I agree to your basic POV.
 
Let's fight religion with a twinking eye and common sense aka brain LOL
Doug Plumb Added Feb 18, 2018 - 7:23am
I explain Christian doctrine precisely in my essay: White Genocide: Why? I'd like you to tell me what is wrong with these doctrines.
  I got that info from Kant. Its rare that a Christian you meet actually understands Christian doctrine.
Doug Plumb Added Feb 18, 2018 - 7:24am
BTW The basic problem with Satanism is that it is incomplete as a philosophy. See my Dialectic on YouTube.
Leroy Added Feb 18, 2018 - 7:42am
If one consults Merriam-Webster, satanism is defined as:
 

1. innate wickedness
 


2. obsession with or affinity for evil; specifically: worship of Satan marked by the travesty of Christian rites
 
A Satanist is a follower of Satanism.  I can appreciate the fact that you claim to be a cynic and all the symbolism and the choosing of Satan as your mascot is just to tweak the religious people of the world, but I don't buy it.  Maybe you are just trying to refine the word satanism.   However, the people who would be attracted to such a religion would expect the real deal: worshipping of the devil, human sacrifices, drinking of blood, rituals, etc.  Just a bunch of cynics getting together and partying and poking fun at the rest of society would have to be a disappointment to new inductees.
 
No.  I suspect you are the real deal.  You just try to make it sound like a bunch of good guys who get together to poke fun at beliefs of other people.  If that is what it was, I might join you.  I enjoy satire.  The joke is on your inductees.
 

 
Michael B. Added Feb 18, 2018 - 10:15am
James Travil Added Feb 18, 2018 - 12:20pm
Thanks for the welcome Stone!   It's good know there are other atheists here. I can easily see there are plenty of theists as well, but I've never let that sort of thing scare me away. 
James Travil Added Feb 18, 2018 - 12:29pm
Mr. Plumb, I think you misunderstood my article. I'm just here to introduce myself and explain to others who are interested what I believe in. I'm not here to recruit, or be recruited either.
 
As for your "philosophy" my problem with it is that it isn't humanist, and we are humans. Not spirits or anything like that. And we are not tied to any mythical hypocritical beings that make us feel inferior. Or at least I refuse to be. If that works for you, more power to you, just so long as you don't try to force your bronze age beliefs on me like most Christians feel a need to. As for me I remain the God of my own life. Good luck with your ministry.
James Travil Added Feb 18, 2018 - 12:39pm
Mr. Leroy, I am what I say I am. Nothing more, nothing less. As for the flawed dictionary definition of "Satanism" I guess they didn't get the memo of the "new" federally recognized Church of Satan and how we have redefined Satanism from the false Christian dictates since 1968. You can find plenty on the history of the church at  www.churchofsatan.com
 
As for the rest I don't know what you are trying to infer but I'm very clear on my intentions. And I don't let others inferior to me define me.
James Travil Added Feb 18, 2018 - 12:43pm
Greetings and thanks for the link Mr. B. I actually already made a comment on that article. Was about to read your article about assholes when I noticed you had written one on the Nine Satanic Statements. I just had to comment. Nice avatar! 
Leroy Added Feb 18, 2018 - 12:53pm
Just saying, James, that if I were to join the Church of Satan, I would have expectations of gulping blood, weird rituals, sacrificing a virgin now and then, and freaking people out.  I would be disappointed to discover that you were a bunch of party animals--or maybe not.
Michael B. Added Feb 18, 2018 - 1:15pm
You're most welcome James, and thank you, too! We need more Satanists here, lol!
Flying Junior Added Feb 18, 2018 - 2:35pm
Hey man, Satan is beautiful.  Welcome Satanic human. 
 
Douggie,
 
Until you get over your hatred of Jews, I would thank you for not pretending to represent Christianity with some bullshit post entitled, White Genocide.  I guess Hitler was something of a Christian.  You can't really hate Jews effectively if you don't at the least pay lip service to Christianity.  You are an abomination and an embarrassment to us good Christian folk.
Shane Laing Added Feb 18, 2018 - 4:44pm
So obeying the law, respect for others and nature and partying like its 1999. Sign me up.
Doug Plumb Added Feb 18, 2018 - 4:50pm
re "1: Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence."
No discipline associated with Satanism.
re "#2: Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams."
Spiritual pipe dreams are for children. That is NOT what Christianity is about. In fact Jesus told the Greeks they were too superstitious.
re "#3: Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit.
The truth of my existence is everything around me that I can experience with my own senses."
There is no truth (laws) that can obtained from the study of matter, only maxims of judgement.
re "#4: Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates."
Who are you to determine who is an ingrate?
re "#5: Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek."
We don't turn the other cheek for assholes, only people who are truly sorry or did something by accident.
re "
#7: Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all.
Polar bears, tigers, sharks, and other fearsome predators perform a vital function in all of their respective ecosystems and don’t take anything more than they need, whereas humans thoroughly and utterly alter and/or destroy everything they come into contact with. The world would be better off without humans; I’ve always felt we were some kind of alien experiment that went awry."
That is just nonsense. Animals kill for the joy of killing, humans do not. Chimps are extremely violent and have wars between groups and eat one another. Have you ever seen a house cat play with a mouse?
re "#8: Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification."
So we shouldn't have life partners, just go to orgies? That wears thin after a while. Anyone who has had a few one night stands realizes this.
re "#9: Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years.
No argument there. I’ve always wondered why, if God was so powerful, and evil was so bad, then why have all of the evil in the first place? Is this some kind of fucking game? Maybe I have a greatly over-simplified view of the world and the universe. I’ll probably never know."
If every day was sunny and beautiful, would there be such a thing as a beautiful day?
Doug Plumb Added Feb 18, 2018 - 4:53pm
re "As for your "philosophy" my problem with it is that it isn't humanist, and we are humans."
 
This is a movie about humanism, or where it leads. See The Checkist.
Doug Plumb Added Feb 18, 2018 - 4:55pm
Flying Junior re "Douggie,
 
Until you get over your hatred of Jews, I would thank you for not pretending to represent Christianity with some bullshit post entitled, White Genocide. "
 
Like it or not, White Genocide is real and so are the doctrines of Christianity. I don't hate Jews, I don't like Jewish philosophy and politics. You wouldn't either if you knew it.
James Travil Added Feb 18, 2018 - 6:54pm
Thanks for the welcomes Shane, Junior, and Michael B. And don't worry too much about types like Mr. Plumb Flying Junior, believe it or not we had a problem with Nazi/white supremist types joining the Church of Satan back in the early 90'. They were all theists, literally devil worshipers, so they were purged (excommunicated) from the church membership and now have their own little cult. Those kinds of people probably are dangerous. Not sure about Mr. Plumb.
James Travil Added Feb 18, 2018 - 7:18pm
Mr. Plumb, I'm not going to address all the various, humorous criticism of my beliefs. I don't have the time to waste, life is too short. But I will say you lost me with your ridiculous bad fiction "movie" about humanism. We are all humans, get over yourself. You too BTW, regardless of if choose to pretend otherwise. You cannot excape who and what you are until the end of your life. You can not be something you are not, anything other than human, anymore than a tiger can shed it's stripes and become a dog. Therefore anything that is anti-humanist is anti-human and anti-me, and definitely not anything I want a part of. You would have better luck selling a vegan diet to a lion than you will at selling your make believe "god" to me. Been there, done that.
 
A little FYI, I was raised Christian, Baptist to be precise. I saw the ridiculous hypocrisy of you Christians up close and personal. I saw the Baptist minister leave his life partner, his wife for one of the parishioners wives, destroying two families. Took a good deal of the church donations with them when they left also. I saw all the perversion you people hide behind your phoney facade of "righteousness", give me a break!
 
And don't get me started on the rejection of science and historical revisionism. I'll pass. I've been a proud Satanist since my 20's, I'm 50 now and you didn't make a dent in my resolve.
 
Rather than pontificate about the imaginary "struggle between good and evil", god and the devil, I put my faith in science and common sense. I see no tangible force of good or evil, light or darkness, they are just human constructs. Labels that mean little to nothing to me. There is no god or gods to fear, no devils either. I reject all the old religions and their mythologies. Since you can't prove any of the crap is real, there is no point to continue with this.
 
I will comment on the "orgies all the time" nonsense, it's nonsense. I love a good party and communing with my friends and brethren. But I also love my two ladies who are my life mates, and our four children. We Satanists have our own family's, although they don't always resemble yours, or follow your rules. Good day sir.
Doug Plumb Added Feb 18, 2018 - 8:16pm
re "We are all humans, get over yourself. "
 
Your argument here doesn't even make sense. Because we are humans a religion that calls itself humanism must be both good and true? You do know that you can buy "cheeze whiz" at the grocery store and there is not even a small possibility of finding cheese in that jar - don't you?
  Humanism as a UN created religion based on Jewish materialism. It is not "grass roots". It is pure communism, created and spread by the private central banks and their intelligence agencies. It is based on German Idealism. The people that spread it know fully its consequences, as mankind has known since the days of Plato.
  Its purpose is to humiliate you with stupidity to the point where you lose your moral compass completely and become completely disconnected with rational law. Then you will be so demoralized that you will wait in line to be shot. The nonsense they put on TV that they thought you would only be humiliated by is stuff you actually believe. They erred in over estimating general intelligence.
 
re "A little FYI, I was raised Christian, Baptist to be precise. I saw the ridiculous hypocrisy of you Christians up close and personal. I saw the Baptist minister leave his life partner, his wife for ..."
 
So what ? It happens all the time, school teachers raping little kids. ...Christians are not perfect. Neither are satanists.
Doug Plumb Added Feb 18, 2018 - 8:17pm
re "believe it or not we had a problem with Nazi/white supremist types joining the Church of Satan back in the early 90'"
 
So what ? You think I'm a NAZI because I make a fool out of you?
James Travil Added Feb 18, 2018 - 8:37pm
Ad Hominem personal attacks is where the conversation ends you Nazi dipshit Plumb. Kindly take your garbage elsewhere. I stopped reading at that point, but not before you made a fool of yourself by suggesting that humanism is a (UN Jew created) religion. Humanism is a philosophy that has existed for thousands of years, it's not and never has been a religion. Satanism is a humanism centric religion created in 1968 by Anton Szander LaVey. But like I said before, the conversation ended with your infantile Ad Hominem garbage. Doesn't look like anyone is interested in your antisemitic anti-intellectual conspiracy theory nonsense. Good bye! 
James Travil Added Feb 18, 2018 - 10:09pm
Well Flying Junior that was certainly an interesting background. I was hoping to hear what exactly possessed you (no pun intended) to name yourself here "Flying Junior", especially when your avatar is a boat, but I guess you can share that another day, lol!
 
I'm sure Satanists break the law, like everyone else. Shoplifting, speeding, minor stuff, especially the younger members from time to time. But the Church does not approve of any of this, and felonies, certain ones in particular will get one removed from the membership. We will never tolerate any type of crimes against children, and association with certain other groups that could give us a bad imagination (like Nazis or gangs) is likewise unacceptable. Otherwise we are a pretty easy going lot, except when it comes to people who want to force their beliefs on us. We do not advertise or otherwise recruit members, nor do we waste our time preaching against others. We feel that we are the elite and above such petty weak garbage. We will defend ourselves when attacked however, with an iron fist.
 
I myself grew up in the 80's and have a taste in music and the like that reflects that, although who doesn't like The Stones? I live in the Seattle area but frequent LA and San Francisco and had the opportunity to meet Reverend Marilyn Manson and attend one of his concerts back during his Anti-Christ Superstar tour. I got to say that I felt close to the Dark One that night! I don't know, maybe it was the absinthe!
 
But as I mentioned before I grew up in the Christian world, church and family, Christian school even. I even tried to "get saved" in my preteen years, but I felt nothing and believed less. After I had a near death experience and saw nothing in my late teens I abandoned the church and theism all together. It feels so much better to live a life based on rationalism and scientific ways than blind faith and mythology. At least for me.
 
I do believe that the social idea of a church is a good idea, that's why I joined the Church of Satan. That and it fits into my lifestyle.
Flying Junior Added Feb 18, 2018 - 10:30pm
It's like a Rosebud thing.  I was happiest when I was taking sailing lessons as a kid.  The Flying Junior was a training sloop for the Flying Dutchman, an Olympic class sailboat in the 1956 and 1960 Summer Olympics.  The Flying Dutchman also featured a spinnaker for running and reaching.  In the late 1960s UCSD Aquatics purchased two Flying Juniors.  It was the funnest boat I ever sailed.  It still remains a popular and fast-performing sailboat which is valuable in training young sailors.  It is only about fifteen feet long with a berth of less than five feet and a twenty foot mast.  It was designed for a crew of two.  The Flying Dutchman remains one of the fastest sailboats ever designed.
James Travil Added Feb 19, 2018 - 1:54am
Thanks for the answer Flying Junior, that makes sense to me.
 
I was just talking to my ladies about some of the incredibly stupid things Mr. Plumb said regarding Satanism, or rather actually the philosophy of humanism being, of all things, communist (!). This would apparently suggest that the opposite, Christianity, is fascist! Hey don't blame me, that's the logical conclusion of Mr. Plumb's deranged thinking. It however does not fit with the actual Bible or Christianity according to the Christ legend, at least not according to the following piece I was told of which some of you may find interesting - Why Jesus would not have supported Trump or the Republicans (or Democrats either) - “Jesus Was a Proto-Communist Jewish Hobo Who Criticized the Rich” https://extranewsfeed.com/jesus-was-a-proto-communist-jewish-hobo-who-criticized-the-rich-99f47e2214c5
Flying Junior Added Feb 19, 2018 - 2:07am
Trump vs. Jesus?  You're killing me.
opher goodwin Added Feb 19, 2018 - 5:29am
Hi JT - welcome to the site where anything goes. I too am an atheist and an antitheist too. I don't believe in any of the cults created by man and I believe they all do more harm than good and we'd be better off without them. For me life and nature are wondrous enough I don't need to make up religious stories to explain it.
I could not actually see why you would call yourself Satanists though.
The old pagan religion of the Wicca and Green Man predates Christianity and was demonised by the Church but it does not sound as if that is a path you follow.
All power to you. What a man believes is, as far as I'm concerned, a personal issue.
Stone-Eater Added Feb 19, 2018 - 6:09am
Jesus The Carpenter was a socialist who founded a sect to my judgment. A good PR guy and rhetoric in his time. I mean back then education was zero mostly and one needed a good picture - a god - to get the message across.
 
Christians are mostly conservative voters. So Jesus is actually the wrong guy to turn to :-)
opher goodwin Added Feb 19, 2018 - 6:31am
Stone - good point. Jesus certainly was a socialist if not a full-blown communist. I'm not so sure he was brilliant at PR though. At the time of his crucifixion Christianity was a minor Jewish cult of no great significance. It took the PR skills of St Paul to put the spin on it and make it into something else and then Constantine to use it politically and propel it into a force. Without those two guys it would have sunk without trace.
James Travil Added Feb 19, 2018 - 12:48pm
Thanks for the welcome Opher. Yes we Satanists are not really similar to pagans, except for the fact that we both enjoy a good time. No, Satan is just our mascot essentially. Our PR man of sorts. If it pisses off the theists (& it does!) then all the better.
Doug Plumb Added Feb 19, 2018 - 1:13pm
Where do you get the idea that Jesus was a commie ? WTF ??
Doug Plumb Added Feb 19, 2018 - 1:15pm
re "Ad Hominem personal attacks is where the conversation ends you Nazi dipshit Plumb."
 
lol.
opher goodwin Added Feb 19, 2018 - 1:52pm
JT - well explained.
opher goodwin Added Feb 19, 2018 - 1:55pm
Doug - you mean you haven't read what Jesus said about the capitalist money lenders or rich men camels and eyes of a needle? He was a commie through and through. If it wasn't for the way St Paul and Constantine put a spin on it all and made it into a religion I'd be saying what a good guy he was. I like people who throw over bankers tables and say the rich are scum.
Bill Added Feb 19, 2018 - 3:14pm
Well, I think Jesus was a total hippie (just look at any depiction of him... EVER). But a communist? He certainly believed in religion... communists don't...
 
All this talk about having good parties, Jesus would have been the dude to invite, not Satan! Jesus turns water into wine! He makes the grub just appear! He'd probably bring all the hot chicks!
 
But Satan? Nah, he'd be the fun guy to chat with, and then that asshole would get too drunk, go on and on about his badass Harley and gnarly tattoos, trip over a chair and stab someone in the leg with those obnoxious horns... he'd be a total party killer!
opher goodwin Added Feb 19, 2018 - 3:31pm
Bill - yep - and the hippies were commies too. They believed in sharing, dropping out of the capitalist machine and living in communes. He rejected the standard Jewish perspective. You don't have to reject god to be a communist.
I'd invite them both - if they existed.
James Travil Added Feb 19, 2018 - 4:58pm
Bill wrote "All this talk about having good parties, Jesus would have been the dude to invite, not Satan!"
Clearly you have not seen the show Lucifer 
Stone-Eater Added Feb 19, 2018 - 5:15pm
Oph
 
Fully agree. Jesus would have won the poetry slam constest of the year 6.
opher goodwin Added Feb 19, 2018 - 6:52pm
JT - I must have missed that.
opher goodwin Added Feb 19, 2018 - 6:53pm
Stone - I didn't know he was a poet. Loafs and fishes lots of wishes water to wine how divine.
James Travil Added Feb 19, 2018 - 11:39pm
"As a great man once said, even if God didn't exist, it would be wholly necessary to invent him!"
Tell that to the guy here who said the proof that God exists is in the fact that people mention him in various texts. As in it would be impossible to invent him!
 
Oh, and not to burst anyone's bubble but there is no historical proof of the existence of Jesus (& "Christ" is just a title not a proper name). Just saying.
James Travil Added Feb 19, 2018 - 11:41pm
A good read here on the subject:
Did Jesus exist? - http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm
Doug Plumb Added Feb 20, 2018 - 5:24am
Your conception of God and religion is that of an eight year old attending Sunday school. That is your problem with religion.
opher goodwin Added Feb 20, 2018 - 5:42am
Robes - but that's exactly what happened - we invented him!
opher goodwin Added Feb 20, 2018 - 5:43am
JT - I think he was mentioned in passing in Roman history. Christianity was described as one of many Jewish cults.
opher goodwin Added Feb 20, 2018 - 5:44am
Doug - I've studied it in depth. Perhaps you should read my books on it?
Leroy Added Feb 20, 2018 - 9:19am
If there is no god, there can be no Satan.  If there is no Satan, there can be no Satanists.  If there are no Satanist, then there can be no Church of Satan. 
opher goodwin Added Feb 20, 2018 - 10:31am
Leroy - of course there can. We have churches for all manner of fictions. It doesn't have to be real.
Bill Added Feb 20, 2018 - 10:50am
I wonder if the fact that historically Europeans have had a closer relationship between church and state (compared to the US) has to do with an apparent higher percentage of atheists in Europe? 
 
What I'm saying is that a possible consequence of people having a disdain for the government would also have a disdain for the church since they're so intertwined?
James Travil Added Feb 20, 2018 - 10:53am
Exactly Opher! And Leroy you apparently missed the entire point of Satan being just a mascot of the Church of Satan.
 
To anyone else I suggest reading the essay at the link I provided, there is absolutely no evidence of an historical Jesus anymore than a historical Hurcules. The essay covers all of the areas mentioned and many many more. If you think you have some secret proof not covered, I highly welcome you to provide proof of your claim, otherwise you will just look foolish for making false claims with no proof.
 
And Mr. Plumb I don't know who you are talking to but I know it's not me because our conversation ended with your immature Ad Hominem garbage, remember?
Bill Added Feb 20, 2018 - 12:11pm
Hey James,
Here is an excellent article on the physical existence of Jesus. A good read, I think the most telling part of why he wasn't a fiction is embedded in the story: who on earth would invent a living God that gets the shit beat out of him, and then killed? A hard story to swallow.... unless it's true.....
 
Did Jesus Exist?
 
 
Leroy Added Feb 20, 2018 - 12:13pm
"Exactly Opher! And Leroy you apparently missed the entire point of Satan being just a mascot of the Church of Satan."
 
Your point is quite clear.  But, you could not use Satan as a mascot if there were no god to create him, real or otherwise.  You couldn't make a parody of God if there is no concept of god.  It's like trying to parody Trump in a world where he never existed.
Donna Added Feb 20, 2018 - 1:00pm
Hi JT- I am a Pagan, and damn proud. Welcome to the ever so interesting world of Writer Beat. Most are somewhat friendly, then again most are downright arrogant in the only view they see, is the one they have been sold for years, with no real concern for anything else. Proof is right here on your page..
Dad was Catholic, Mom a Sunday School teacher for the Methodist church. Grams, and Great Grams, and a Great Aunt were all witches, i was told you are free to choose,nothing forced upon me, i chose the one i related to, the one that honors me, and my kind, not asks me to beg for forgiveness, but would rather see me say thank you for all, on this beautiful planet, and take care of her land..)0(
Thanks for a nice intro to who you are. )0(
opher goodwin Added Feb 20, 2018 - 1:24pm
Bill - it seems to me that the relationship between church and state can't get any closer than it is in the States. Nobody can get elected without at least paying lip service to God. It's a backdoor theocracy. The church pulls all the shots.
opher goodwin Added Feb 20, 2018 - 1:25pm
Donna - amen to that.
James Travil Added Feb 20, 2018 - 3:46pm
Leroy I prepose that the guy in the sky god of the theists is just a mascot as well. They just forgot. 
James Travil Added Feb 20, 2018 - 3:49pm
Thanks for the welcome Donna, some of my best friends are pagans! Blessings and well met.
Flying Junior Added Feb 20, 2018 - 3:49pm
Remember to bring your Christian Voting Guide with you to the polls.
James Travil Added Feb 20, 2018 - 3:52pm
Bill did you bother to read the essay I posted a link to? I'll make you a deal, you read mine and I'll read yours then we can compare notes. 
Morgoth Added Feb 20, 2018 - 8:23pm
I believe in nothing and I’m better off for it.  Religions can be wonderful belief systems, it’s humans that fuck things up.
 
I often think that if there is a God, he/she/it is looking down and is thinking, “You know, dinosaurs weren’t all that bad.”
James Travil Added Feb 20, 2018 - 9:20pm
Well said Mr. Kelly, much agreed! Thanks for chiming in.
James Travil Added Feb 20, 2018 - 9:25pm
I actually believe that if something the resemblense of a deity exists it's probably utterly alien and beyond our conception. Maybe like the Outer Gods mentioned in H.P. Lovecraft's writings. Something best left alone.
opher goodwin Added Feb 22, 2018 - 7:54am
Robes - yes - why do religious people all assume that the god they imagined is a good one? Looking at the world, the cruelty and capricious nastiness it seems much more likely that any god would have to be quite a bit nasty. Why would a sane god create so much pain and suffering? So much stupidity and destruction?
Makes no sense to me. I'm happy without being saddled with that fiction.
James Travil Added Feb 22, 2018 - 11:02am
Insane huh? That falls back to the ideas espoused by Lovecraft, that the thought process of the gods is so alien to ours, as to appear outright insane.
 
Anyway at least Lovecraft had to decency to label his tall tales as fiction, not fact (or "history").
Bill Added Feb 22, 2018 - 12:09pm
Opher and JT,
What you two aren't taking into consideration is a God that may be a "prime mover," but who stepped back afterward because he had better things to worry and think about: like a giant, astrological sperm donor. 
James Travil Added Feb 23, 2018 - 2:18am
Maybe it is all of the above Bill! Maybe God created the universe, then left for other things and doesn't have any interest in us. But, better leave him alone because... HOLY SHIT!!! Lol, or something like that. You never know. And I doubt we ever will.
 
On another note, thanks for all the "likes" (those of you who gave me one). It's not a popularity contest (or is it?) but it reached 9 today. Not only not bad for the new guy, but by "coincidence" 9 happens to be the Devil's number. Creepy...

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