Just how do you Boycot the NRA?

Twitter is all a twitter about the latest move to boycott the NRA and it made me wonder how they plan to do that since the NRA isn't a company that sells anything to the public except perhaps magazines it sends its members.  I see several companies that issue things like credit cards with an NRA emblem on them, won't anymore, and there are some discounts that are no longer offered but none of that really impacts the NRA because 99% of it's revenue comes from member dues.  I doubt it has much effect on their members either because the discounts are peanuts and most people get the same discounts from other credit cards.  It's more symbolic disassociation.  So how can we punish the NRA?


Well for starters, don't sign up...  Oh but that won't do much since pretty much all the folks who hate the NRA weren't members to begin with.   You could also run around waving signs saying how despicable the NRA is...  However about all that is likely to do is decrease you popularity with all the folks who don't agree with you, and you don't even know who they are, NRA members don't wear arm bands. 


The NRA is not a huge evil corporation, they are your neighbors who give the NRA money because they think that will help preserve their gun rights.  If you hate the NRA what you really hate is your gun owning neighbors.


Thomas Sutrina Added Feb 24, 2018 - 8:49pm
NRA members could care less about boycotts.  The reason is simple and well said: 1997 Charlton Heston explaining why the Second Amendment “must be considered more essential than the First Amendment.” The Second Amendment, the right to bear arms against those who would take away your life and liberty, is the first freedom that defends the rest of your liberty.
Thomas Sutrina Added Feb 24, 2018 - 9:15pm
You see the first move of all government that want to make their citizens lives less important then the following the rules of the state is to take away weapons. They all have huge body counts.  The initial body count in China was huge but you would thing they were well established and control their population so completely that no later massacres would be needed.
Written on 5 June 1989, little more than 24 hours after the massacre, by Sir Alan Donald, the then-British ambassador to China, the hitherto secret cable has now been placed in the UK National Archives at Kew, where it was found by the news website HK01.  The death toll from Tiananmen Square massacre was at least 10,000 people, killed by a Chinese army unit whose troops were likened to “primitives”.  The 27 Army of Shanxi Province, whose troops he described as “60 per cent illiterate. The Chinese Red Cross says that roughly 2,700 civilians were killed and the Chinese government puts the number at 200 to 300.  
Sir Alan wrote, “The 27 Army APCs [armoured personnel carriers] opened fire on the crowd before running over them. APCs ran over troops and civilians at 65 kph [40 miles per hour].”  Sir Alan added: “Students understood they were given one hour to leave square, but after five minutes APCs attacked.  “Students linked arms but were mown down. APCs then ran over the bodies time and time again to make, quote ‘pie’ unquote, and remains collected by bulldozer.  “Remains incinerated and then hosed down drains.”
Sir Alan wrote: “1,000 survivors were told they could escape but were then mowed down by specially prepared MG [machine gun] positions.  “Army ambulances who attempted to give aid were shot up, as was a Sino-Japanese hospital ambulance. With medical crew dead, wounded driver attempted to ram attackers but was blown to pieces by anti-tank weapon.”  He had been told, 27 Army troops had used dum-dum bullets and “snipers shot many civilians on balconies, street sweepers etc for target practice”.   In another incident, the cable said, the troops even shot one of their own officers.   http://strangesounds.org/2017/12/at-least-10000-people-died-in-tiananmen-square-massacre-secretdocuments.
Thought that the brutality needs to be clear.  And this is not unique from what may thing has become a member of the world community.
Pardero Added Feb 24, 2018 - 9:33pm
Thank you for that. 
Any NRA member is aware of the torrent of mailings and telephone solicitations for donations to battle those who would curtail their Constitutional rights. 
This ridiculous little campaign will only succeed in loosening the purse strings of the most miserly members. The NRA will be glad for this golden opportunity to increase financial security.
Tamara Wilhite Added Feb 24, 2018 - 10:58pm
If conservatives aren't allowed to refuse service they don't agree with, like baking a gay wedding cake, why are liberals allowed to refuse to do service with conservatives?
Thomas Sutrina Added Feb 24, 2018 - 11:33pm
CRM 114 you logic is questionable.  the NRA and the Second Amendment existed long before this article was written.
Tamara Wilhite the reason the conservative get unfavorable court decision is because Obama has filled those benches with people that believe the constitution is a suggestion not the law.  You know like the USSR Constitution and even the present Russian Constitution.  
Nobody's Sweetheart Added Feb 25, 2018 - 9:01am
Yup, the NRA doesn't give a flying fuck...most groups of people that are armed to the teeth usually don't, lol.
Thomas Sutrina Added Feb 25, 2018 - 1:01pm
The teenagers and the teachers killed in Parkland Florida will result in the people in the county showing their displeasure with the sheriff next election if he last that long.  To have a department trained to not enter a school to confront the shooter.  Collebined showed this approach doesn't work.   The residents of Parkland and the nation consider those trying to protect students as heros.  I think a conceal carry citizens confronting the shooter would also be consider a hero. 
So you can flying fuck statements you want, but when the rubber hits the road.  Everyone I know of wants a defender of their right to LIVE.  
Thomas Sutrina Added Feb 25, 2018 - 1:11pm
Yup, Michael B.  Parkland shows why the NRA exist and both it and gun sales grew during Obama's administration.   Parkland showed that big government liberals both Democrats and Republicans do not as you said give a flying fuck if they live or die.   
Big government failed because it considered taking guns away from citizens more important to big government's existence and growth then as the Declaration of Independents implies that they work for the good and approval of the governed.
Parkland sharif department, FBI, State Police, the government mental health department, child services, you name any big government agency all failed to prevent the purchase of a gun and let this teenage go untreated.   
Riley Brown Added Feb 25, 2018 - 1:37pm
Parero, you are right about the net result, whenever anti gun folks rattle their sabers the people who own guns seem to spend a little more on guns and to try and make sure the organizations they give money to to help keep their gun rights, will be well funded.
If the real intention is really to prevent more school shootings, these feeble boycotts might actually be doing exactly the opposite.
Riley Brown Added Feb 25, 2018 - 1:39pm
CRM 114, I don't mix up boycott and punish, I think in this case the anti gun folks want to punish the"NRA" and thinks a boycott is the best way. 
Riley Brown Added Feb 25, 2018 - 1:54pm
Tamara, the way things are going with the appeals process it just might be legal for a baker to refuse to proved a cake for a gay marriage, but that shouldn't be the point.
I think anyone who is willing to lose the business should be allowed to refuse any business they want to period.  If you don't want me in your neighborhood or club I really don't want to be there and will be glad to spend my money somewhere where I'm liked and appreciated.  I find it hard to imagine why a gay couple would want to support a business that resents them or not be willing to go a little out of their way to support a business that does.
This case the NRA doesn't sell anything or really get any significant portion of it's funding by offering credit cards with an NRA image on the front, the real benefit for those has always gone to the Credit Card Company because offering those images made them appealing to NRA members, and they got more to sign up.  It would be no different if they wanted to appeal to tractor owners and put picture of tractors on them, or Harley owners and put Harley pictures on the ones for them.  Offering NRA members discounts on things like select hotels is no different, they do that for so many large groups that I think everyone from AARP and AAA members to local square dancing clubs already get those discounted offered all the time.
The NRA doesn't sell anything gun haters can boycott and all the companies, even those that say they won't put a NRA picture on their credit card anymore, still want gun-owners as customers because there are so many of them.  All their "boycott" might do is get a few disappointed NRA members to switch to another credit card company.  I do remember dropping one credit card company after they stopped offering a card with my Alumni Association picture on the front of the card.  That was the only thing that got me to keep renewing it.
Riley Brown Added Feb 25, 2018 - 2:06pm
Thomas, I am a little surprised the first real officers on the scene hid behind their cars, but I have no idea what kind of training they had.  Their department policy for active shooters might be to try and contain the shooter until qualified back up arrives.
However I have to think about what I'd have done if it happened near me and I was there and had a gun.  If I didn't have a kid in the school I'd not have gone in because her in California I'd be in huge trouble for entering the school with a gun, and even more if I shot the killer because as a civilian I can't shoot anyone, not even an active shooter unless they are a direct threat to my life, and I have no avenue of escape.  Clearly a jury would conclude that I did have an avenue of escape and chose to confront the killer, the second I ran into the school instead of the other way.
Remember in California I will be tried by a jury of 12 California gun haters who think I'm likely insane just because I own a gun.  These same people often want to crucify police after shootings for not giving the criminals enough chances first.  The public outcry's are sickening, especially when I consider the fact that the police are putting their lives at stake and all it takes it one lucky shot for them to be dead.
There is no good Samaritan gun law, if I killed an active shooter in a school, here in California I'd likely lose my gun rights, my right to vote, and be locked up for a very long time.  Even if by some miracle I prevailed in court, no one would pay my legal costs, so I'd be broke and out of job when it was all over. 
Pardero Added Feb 25, 2018 - 2:21pm
Although California has some wonderful climates, why don't you find a way to move somewhere that you have the right to defend yourself and your loved ones? My state does not require a permit to carry concealed. If one needed to use deadly force, they would find only sympathetic juries or never be prosecuted in the first place.
Freedom of association is a natural right that has also been under attack for a long time. Use what is left of that, and your feet, to get to a safer place. I am concerned for what the future holds for many locales.
Ben McCargo Added Feb 25, 2018 - 2:23pm
For starters, i guess I'm a liberal, sort of, overlapping on some conservative stances.  that's for a disclaimer.  Having said that, I don't think the NRA is evil, I think it's lead by folks that are looking at things maybe more stridently than they really are.  And i say this as an African-American who can appreciate the necessity of being able to defend yourself and family and how the right to bear arms, for all men, may have played an historic part and paved the way for my folk's ability to live and thrive in America.  So, if there is a challenge to eradicate gun ownership in America, I'm in the fight.  But we have to be reasonable; starting with better enforcement and adherence to regs already on the books and maybe get Trump to reverse his decision on that Obama legislation that made it easier to restrict ownership by some mentally ill persons.  I agree that the 2nd Amendment has to evolve to protect 2018 citizenry but not at the expense of the total eradication of the right to gun ownership.  How is that a bad thing? 
mark henry smith Added Feb 25, 2018 - 2:24pm
So if I run a parking lot to an event and an NRA bumper sticker is on a car, would I have the right to refuse to let them park? When we think about guns and their ability to protect a populace from a dictatorship of thugs, all we have to do is look at the Ukraine. Armed militias came out and fought the army and special forces loyal to the Russian puppet.
The militias didn't exist until freedom was threatened and all of the people pooled their weapons to fight and formed fighting units as professional snipers on rooftops picked them off. I don't see that happening here, but if it does, a cache of weapons might be helpful.
If we want to prevent these kinds of massacres of innocents, change the ammo for personal weapons, except hunting rifles. Rubber bullets do so much less damage, but can still stop an intruder and shoot holes in a target. And in the event of the need for a civilian uprising, they can be adapted, something a deranged kid probably wouldn't think of in the spur of the moment, the lethality of his ammo.
Good post, Riley, excellent points on why NRA is immune from public revilement.  
Pardero Added Feb 25, 2018 - 3:06pm
You are so poorly informed and biased as to what happened in Ukraine, that there is little point in wasting my time in refuting all of your allegations, but they are all false.
The NRA, as an organization, reflects the will of the members. Those members are patriotic freedom loving Americans, from all walks of life. We consider ourselves to be defenders of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. 
We even defend your right to spew disinformation, propaganda, and generally show how poorly educated and easily manipulated you are.
Dave Volek Added Feb 25, 2018 - 3:33pm
I doubt it very much that USA is held together only by the glue of NRA members having guns in their house.
And if it is true, then it is shallow society that deserves to fall.
Pardero Added Feb 25, 2018 - 3:42pm
Ben McCargo,
I certainly agree with you in theory. 
A brief history:
In their own written words, many anti-gun groups and figures, state that their goal is the total elimination of certain types of firearms or the availability to anyone other than law enforcement or military.
Again, in their own written words, their plan is to curtail the Second Amendment incrementally.
We played that game over decades. We gave them 'common sense' restrictions. It encouraged them to demand more. We gave them additional 'common sense' restrictions. They were even more encouraged. We were demoralized. We were losing members. The Stand and Fight campaign was developed. Don't fall for the sneaky incrementalist plan of 'reasonable restrictions'. It is a cynical ploy to divide freedom lovers, perhaps even you and I, even though we are both patriotic Americans. When you see the word reasonable, assume it is an incrementalist or someone that has been fooled by them.
If some otherwise thoughtful people seem 'unreasonable' it is because we have been through this so many times before. 
'Infringe' is in the dictionary. That specific word would seem to preclude restrictions, 'reasonable' or otherwise.
By the way, Federal law proscribes firearm possession to those 'judged mentally defective or incompetent.'
Dino Manalis Added Feb 25, 2018 - 5:09pm
The NRA seems to be interested only in gun sales, what about protecting life?  The organization should prioritize gun safety.
Pardero Added Feb 25, 2018 - 5:37pm
I am not sure what you have to offer besides parroting the same old MSM anti-gun/anti-NRA talking points.
I am aware of the source and contents of your indoctrination and programming. The only question is, will you ever be able to overcome it?
The NRA is all about safety. They offer free classes all over America. All you have to do is ask. Most range instructors are NRA certified, as well. Contact NRA if you wish to take a gun safety class. They also have a fine youth program. 
Get some facts and information. Then you can ask intelligent informed questions instead of the same old rhetorical ones.
By the way, I am not a spokeman for the NRA. I am an ordinary person who happens to be a member. I pay annual dues and make occasional donations to help fight attacks on the Constitution.
TexasLynn Added Feb 25, 2018 - 7:42pm
Riley... another great post.
While I get your point that the NRA does not follow a business model susceptible to pressure, I submit that the NRA does sell one product; the organized defense of the 2nd Amendment.  The discounts and trinkets are for the most part immaterial to those of us who purchase it (via our memberships).
The left (my label, not yours) hates the product the NRA sells, despises the people who purchase it, and seeks to punish both on a regular basis.  When you've made it clear that you hate me and my values, exactly what kind of influence and leverage do you hold?  I'm more likely to act in spite of you than consider any pressure you exert.
Over the past thirty years, I think I've withheld my membership dues one time and that's because the NRA pissed me off by cozying up to the Sierra Club at a convention.
Riley >> If you hate the NRA what you really hate is your gun owning neighbors.
Exactly... and they do.
Riley >> I think in this case the anti gun folks want to punish the"NRA" and thinks a boycott is the best way.
I do too... but  I keep getting back to "They can't be that stupid!" 
Riley >> the real benefit for those has always gone to the Credit Card Company because offering those images made them appealing to NRA members, and they got more to sign up.
Exactly... I used to have one of those cards and the logo was the only reason I had it.  I think I did the same with checks.  I've never really used any of the discounts because I can usually do better on my own.
You bring up the AARP.  In conservative circles they are knows as a leftist organization.  People don't join for that very reason.  There are better conservative options.
Dave >> I doubt it very much that USA is held together only by the glue of NRA members having guns in their house.
I agree... We're not there yet.
But one purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to be a constant reminder so that we hopefully never reach that point.  Then, if/when we do it provides some hope of reversing it.
Paredero >> Any NRA member is aware of the torrent of mailings and telephone solicitations for donations to battle those who would curtail their Constitutional rights.
Oh my God!  Yes.  But I assume leftist organizations do the same thing.
Dino >> The NRA seems to be interested only in gun sales, what about protecting life?  The organization should prioritize gun safety.
Paredero is right.  Nobody, and I mean nobody, is more proactive in gun education and safety than the NRA.  Of course, some equate "gun safety" with "gun control".  There's no reasoning with those people anyway...
Flying Junior Added Feb 25, 2018 - 9:07pm
Just how do you spell boycott?
TexasLynn Added Feb 25, 2018 - 10:24pm
FJ >> Just how do you spell boycot?
In this case... P O I N T L E S S
I've never bought Ben and Jerry's ice cream in my entire life, and never intend to (Blue Bell is better).  I'm mad at them for being leftist weenies, so I think I'll boycott them.  Exactly how much did that just affect Ben and Jerry's bottom line?  Exactly how much did that affect the opinion of those who worship Ben and Jerry's?
Jeffry Gilbert Added Feb 26, 2018 - 3:52am
Just how do you spell boycott?
According to the the PM of the Great White North it should be spelled "personcott". 
Riley Brown Added Feb 26, 2018 - 11:00am
Pardero,  Thank you for the offer, if it were just about my gun I might leave Calif, and still might because of their horrible fiscal mismanagement, but I have reasons other than guns for wanting to stay here if I can.  I do suspect I will have to leave California eventually and take my money with me to retire because I will be able to keep much more if it if I go to another state.
Pardero Added Feb 26, 2018 - 11:06am
I understand. But let me mention, in passing, we don't have a state income tax, either. ; )
Pardero Added Feb 26, 2018 - 11:09am
Sorry, I can't resist.
We just got Weatherby to move here from California. Too bad you don't work for Weatherby.
Riley Brown Added Feb 26, 2018 - 11:10am
Ben, I don't want psychotic people running around with guns but I also am alarmed at some of the laws that seem to classify pretty ordinary people as risky and too violent to own a gun, when in fact they really aren't bad people at all.  I've personally seen a few divorces that got ugly, and one party or another accused the other of domestic violence, and that was enough to take all their guns away. 
In Calif if someone overhears you saying something like "I'm going to kill her", to a friend, after your wife does something like throw out all your old family pictures, and your wife calls the police and tells them she feels threatened, you get arrested, your guns go by by and you are in big trouble.  You can't get out by pointing out the fact that you use that phrase all the time and have no prior history of violence or even by pointing out that you didn't do anything bad after the incident before you were arrested.
There are tens of thousands of people out there and many say and do things that outwardly look and sound potentially threatening.  We can't investigate all of them and it's not fair to simply deprive someone of the right to own a gun because they got angry or perhaps even joked and used unacceptable language but that's where we're headed.
Riley Brown Added Feb 26, 2018 - 11:17am
Junior, I spell boycott, not supporting by taking my business somewhere else.
If I boycott my local store, I don't buy from them, if I boycott an actor I don't watch their movies. 
Boycotts only have an effect if you would have otherwise been a supporting customer.  Since gun haters are never NRA members, their personal boycotts are meaningless.  I hate squash, so if I boycott squash it makes no difference and the same applies to the NRA.
Pardero Added Feb 26, 2018 - 11:30am
I get offers on the CB radio, occasionally, by fellow truckers offering to 'educate' me at the next pullout, rest area, or truck stop. If I accepted such an offer, I would risk losing some of my Constitutional rights for a misdemeanor fisticuffs. Can you think of any other Constitutional right that is stripped away because of a misdemeanor?
Maybe somebody smarter than me can remember which Founding Father said,"Those that would sacrifice essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither."
Rusty Smith Added Feb 26, 2018 - 12:30pm
Riley Brown I have a good idea, all the anti gun folks need to boycott the NRA by putting signs on their houses that say
              We are boycotting the NRA
  Because we think only stupid people own guns
I bet criminals looking for a safe hours to break into would appreciate their honesty.
I resent the fact that they want me to be just as defenseless as they are.  Where I live a 20 minute wait on 911 isn't unusual, and they want me to set my gun aside and let the police protect me.  
Look at the last shooting, the security guard and the first 2 officers that arrived waited patiently outside and listened to the shooting.  They would have done even less if there were shots being fired  inside a house.
TexasLynn Added Feb 26, 2018 - 12:49pm
>> Where I live a 20 minute wait on 911 isn't unusual...
A friend/neighbor of mine found herself in a position where she had to call 911 about a month ago.  55 minutes!  Her armed neighbors?  5 minutes.
mark henry smith Added Feb 26, 2018 - 12:55pm
Dear Padre, Russian bot?
Please inform me where my presentation of what happened in the Ukraine went awry. Was not the president a puppet building palaces for himself? Was not the opposition a more of less democratic organization? Please do not deflect answering questions with offhand comments that you know so little I cannot comment. That sounds like a bad date.
The NRA is a political organization that uses scare tactics to motivate it's members, like so many political organizations in the US. The reasons are simple, we're one of the least informed democratic countries on the face of the earth. We are indoctrinated to believe fairy tales as truth and emotion as proof. We are Disneyfied. How many of the seven dwarfs really wanted to get into Snow White's skirts? Now we know the truth, that little people are bawdy little beings, as was proven on the set of The Wizard of Oz, all that libido packed into such a small package.
So the US is unique. Guns did win us the land and no person who ventured out into the wilderness went without a gun for protection. This mindset is still planted I the psyches of so many and they see the wild west in our inner cities, in our foreign policy, everywhere they look. When in doubt they shoot first and ask questions later. That is not something that can be changed by a bunch of innocent people being massacred as we've seen over and over. We take out our grievances in violent ways because our entire system of media and entertainment glorifies violence as the answer to every problem, even when it appears not to.
What is the problem with the guard waiting for back up? That he wasn't violent enough. Teachers weren't able to be violent enough. The answer isn't less violence, it's more.
But should a parking attendant be able to refuse a car with an NRA sticker from parking?   
Pardero Added Feb 26, 2018 - 1:18pm
You accuse me of deflection. What do you call the practice of labeling people Russian bots because you disagree with them?
Ukraine has never had a non-corrupt leader or government. A little more garden variety corruption seems an unlikely reason for a lawfully elected government to be replaced by members of a coup. Especially, only months away from free elections.
That your "Russian puppet" was looking east instead of west, may turn out to be wise, in retrospect, considering the current state of affairs in Ukraine. 
In a roundabout way, your "democratic opposition" had some democratic ties, since they were funded by US and EU taxpayers, overtly and through NGOs and think tanks.
Your grassroots "democratic opposition" was anything but. It would probably be a cheap shot to remind you that most democratic movements do not use Nazi symbols.
It could be that the Ukrainians paid for their "freedom" since it is a fact that their gold reserves were immediately spirited away.
Pardero Added Feb 26, 2018 - 1:31pm
I apologize for being complicit in the hijacking of this thread. I don't recall the label for people who hijack threads. Maybe Mark does.
TexasLynn Added Feb 26, 2018 - 1:32pm
I don't want to step on Riley's (or anybody else’s) toes... but I'll answer directly (for myself) Mr. Henry...
MHS >> What is the problem with the guard waiting for back up?
People are dying and you have the only immediate means to possibly stop it.  Yes, it requires you to put your life at risk, but if you weren't willing to do that, you shouldn't have the job you have (it's kind of a prerequisite).
Whether waiting was his decision or policy, that was a mistake and a problem.  Either he or the policy maker was at fault for a very bad decision.
MHS >> (Was it a problem that) Teachers weren't able to be violent enough.
Yes, that the teachers were (and still are) required to be helpless victims is a problem.  Policy should be changed to give them at least a choice in the matter.
MHS >> The answer isn't less violence, it's more.
Yes, violence directed at evil is no vice.  Do we need more of that, socially, diplomatically and otherwise?  YES.
As a famous cowboy once said concerning violence directed at evil... "Yippi ka yei mother**&^er..." -- John McClane, Die Hard :)
>> But should a parking attendant be able to refuse a car with an NRA sticker from parking?  
No... but the owner of the parking lot/garage should have that right.  Good enough?  (It’s a property rights thing.)
Pardero Added Feb 26, 2018 - 1:41pm
Fine response. I am grateful that you got this back on topic. 
Riley Brown Added Feb 26, 2018 - 1:56pm
Rusty and Lynn, you make a good point that I think many people who are affluent enough to live and work in nice neighborhoods, and who don't need to use public transportation miss; police protection is the least sufficient in the very neighborhoods where the threats are the greatest. 
I think a lot of do good anti gun folks would change the tune quite quickly if criminals started mugging people in their neighborhoods.  Their ivory tower silver spoon experiences hardly qualify them to tell people in more violent places how to defend themselves.
Riley Brown Added Feb 26, 2018 - 1:59pm
Mark, please enlighten me and our other forum guests with a few, maybe 3, examples of things the NRA has told their members to scare them?
I see a lot of what end up in the news and they never talk about those scare tactics, so I really want to know.  Please use real examples.
Riley Brown Added Feb 26, 2018 - 2:03pm
Mark, about your parking lot example, I think as long as it's ok with their employer a parking lot employee should be able to refuse service to anyone, even if they don't like the color of their hair.
It's not really up to them, it's up to their employer because the employer not the employee must answer to the business that expects them to allow customers to park there while they patronize the business.   If the business is willing to turn away those customers, and see them patronize their competition, that should be their business not ours.
Riley Brown Added Feb 26, 2018 - 2:05pm
Pardero, no problem, sometimes forums take on a life of their own and I am pleased to see participants like you who are reasonably respectful and seem to think a lot about what they say.  Maybe I'll learn something.
Pardero Added Feb 26, 2018 - 2:07pm
You are too kind but thank you.
Riley Brown Added Feb 26, 2018 - 2:18pm
Lynn, I don't really know what security guard's company told him to do if there was a real gun battle, perhaps he just chickened out, or maybe his company told him not to go charging into a shootout especially if he doesn't even know what's going on. 
Security guard training is all about being a visual deterrent and a competent observer, not a hands on cop, and there's a good reason for that, most security guards don't have very good training.  The police training is very extensive and the training is reinforced with constant retraining.  The security guard can go from Librarian to a gun carrying security guard in two weeks that only includes a few days of practice.
This security guard did have much more training, but even so his company policies might not have exceptions, all their guards might be told they have no business charging into shootouts, and they might get fired if they do.  Its might be like a fast food worker getting fired for taking down a robber with a gun, even if they succeed the store will probably fire them for breaking their rules, because if in the process anyone had been accidentally shot, the store could face a multi million dollar law suit.
I doubt the deputies have the same excuse, but I wasn't there so I don't really know.  I do prefer to defer my judgement until I know all the facts, even in cases where I'm pretty sure I already know enough.
mark henry smith Added Feb 26, 2018 - 2:29pm
Thank you, Padre,
All I asked for was a clarification of your views and you did that very concisely. Show me a non-corrupt government from all sides and I'll show you politicians who ride unicorns.
We are all asked to make this commitment to east or west, a claim of top-down, or bottom-up democracy. Russia calls itself a democracy, right? We call ourselves a democracy? At least China doesn't call itself a democracy yet and I admire that lack of hypocrisy. China doesn't apologize for anything. Neither does Putin. And that's why Trump admires them, I think. He doesn't want to have to apologize either.
But we like our leaders apologizing for their mistakes, believing in their own fallibility. It makes them more likeable, more like one of us. Personally, I don't think anyone should be denied parking privileges based on a bumper sticker, since you don't know who put it there. It might have been the past owner.
NRA leader, Wayne La Pierre, claims politicians are trying to do away with the second amendment. Scare tactic.
Claims the government wants to enslave free people by taking away their right to defend themselves from the tyranny of government. Scare tactic.
Believe any limitation on the rights of gun owners will begin a slow process of greater restrictions with the goal being no private gun ownership. Scare tactic.  
TexasLynn Added Feb 26, 2018 - 3:09pm
Riley, I think we're in agreement concerning the security guard.  I think it was a mistake that he did not engage the shooter.  I don't know whose mistake it was because I don't know the company policy; so, I'm not assigning blame to a specific person.
We don't know the details, but it seems as if we never will.  The obvious questions aren't being answered.  It's not in the interest of too many people, companies, and police departments that we get those answers.  And where is the media in all of this... getting answers is their job (or used to be).
I will add that once the death of innocents is involved; I would hope humanity would kick in over other considerations.  You would think that if I make the decision to risk my life; my job would be the least of my concerns.  If after doing the right thing, I was fired... I would have no regrets (though maybe a few choice words for my former employer).
I've probably been a little too hard on this security guard; even if the worst-case scenario is true (and he froze up).  Who can say how they would react in a life or death situation.  I can hope I would answer the call, but can I say for sure that I would?  No.  (I'm reminded of the Red Badge of Courage).
Pardero Added Feb 26, 2018 - 3:14pm
Thank you for that carefully crafted reply. You make a lot of sense.
I don't believe that Wayne La Pierre is any more guilty of promulgating fallacies of catastrophic expectations than any other advocacy group leader.
Gun control groups have described their incremental approach, in writing. 
Just as I might donate to help restore a landmark building or to assist in an environmental group purchasing a plot of land, an issue must come to my attention, first. NRA membership and donations increase when threats to gun ownership appear imminent. Membership and donations fall off when people trust that their rights are safe.
Every day, some ridiculous demagogue in an urban area, proposes some moronic draconian restriction that won't even pass muster with his own peers. There is no lack of threats, credible or not, to the Constitution.
The written words of most gun control groups show that they wish to eliminate general gun ownership and disenfranchise as many potential gun owners as possible. They believe that a smaller group of gun owners will make that group less significant politically.
That the NRA would take take what some might consider poetic license or use sensationalism, only shows that they must use the same tools that other advocacy groups do. You could say that the NRA has cried wolf in the past and I might not argue. This present attack on the NRA is certainly real and indicates the direction that future attacks will come from. I believe that it will be one of the biggest reasons for increased membership and donations, and rightfully so. The globalist elites, along with their henchmen in the MSM, and useful idiots, have opened a new front in their war on the Constitution and the common people that defend it.
If the NRA must use emotive language to get people off their butts, more power to them.
Pardero Added Feb 26, 2018 - 3:23pm
That was a reply to Mark. I wrote too much and had to copy and left it out.
I believe you would have entered the scene even if it was your handgun versus AR. I hope that I would have entered, too. Even if gunned down because a clear shot was not available, one would die in the defense of innocent life, which must be considered the highest human endeavor.
TexasLynn Added Feb 26, 2018 - 5:57pm
Pardero >> I believe you would have entered the scene even if it was your handgun versus AR.
Thank you for the vote of confidence.  We all hope and pray we would have that courage.
Pardero >> Even if gunned down ... one would die in the defense of innocent life, which must be considered the highest human endeavor.
That's what my boss says... :)
John 15:12-13 This is my commandment: Love each other in the same way I have loved you. 13 There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. (Which is what Christ did...)
TexasLynn Added Feb 26, 2018 - 5:58pm
The knee-jerk reaction by Delta Airlines to cut ties (suspending meaningless discounts) with the NRA may have just cost the company $40-50 million.  But I'm sure the good will coming from leftist gun control advocates will make that up in no time.
George Senate Strips Jet Fuel Tax Break
Ben McCargo Added Feb 26, 2018 - 10:40pm
Riley et al, "I think a lot of do good anti gun folks would change the tune quite quickly if criminals started mugging people in their neighborhoods."
I live in the hood, some folks call it a dangerous place.  Me, I call it home.  people die yes, both cats in the life and innocents, unfortunately.  Thing is, some of the most strident gun control exists in these inner city communities.  it's in those ivory towers you describe where cats can get Barrett's and what-not; me not do much.  So yes, I'm for more control; beginning with doing the things correctly we should be doing and simply making some common-sense adjustments.  Everybody who should gets to continue to pursue legal and responsible gun ownership, and we plug the holes that allow folks who shouldn't be able to get them, lay their hands on them.  Again, how is that a bad thing?
Ben McCargo Added Feb 26, 2018 - 10:49pm
And to everyone, since we're going there, I know tragedy can stoke heavy feelings and words but I'm concerned that the country is quick to label someone a coward, especially since the POTUS has put his two cents in.  My suggestion is that we not stray too far down that path, in any form.  Just a thought...
Riley Brown Added Feb 27, 2018 - 1:10am
Mark, I think you live in a bubble:
NRA leader, Wayne La Pierre, claims politicians are trying to do away with the second amendment. Scare tactic.
I don't belong to the NRA but I do live in California and know the anti gun folks around here do want to completely take away private citizens right to own guns, so I'd not say it's a scare tactic, it's the truth.  They claim we'd all be safer if there were NO guns.  I'm surprised you havn't heard the same thing.
Claims the government wants to enslave free people by taking away their right to defend themselves from the tyranny of government. Scare tactic.
I've never heard the the NRA say our government wants to enslave free people, do believe that the government could become extremely oppressive if they were sure the people couldn't do anything about it.  That's what the governments do in other countries.
Believe any limitation on the rights of gun owners will begin a slow process of greater restrictions with the goal being no private gun ownership. Scare tactic. 
That's no scare tactic, it seems to be what is happening.  The NRA doesn't have to tell me that, I've watched laws being created every year that make private gun ownership and use harder and harder to the point where it's become very difficult for many people to even use their guns for legal purposes like hunting.  Years ago you could drive down the street with a pistol on the dashboard, today you can't even carry a shotgun across the street to show it to a neighbor.  Today there are long complicated lists of guns you can't even own anymore, and others you can own but your children can't inherit.  Old widows are becoming criminals for doing things like giving their deceased husbands guns to his brother.  People are becoming criminals for possessing guns they bought legally a few years ago, and registered but don't realize are now illegal.
Riley Brown Added Feb 27, 2018 - 1:22am
Ben, I've never suggested we shouldn't do our best to keep guns out of the hand of criminals and mentally unstable people, to me that sounds like common sense. 
However passing lots of laws that only keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens, seems pointless to me. 
You're "hood" obviously isn't dangerous because our current laws allow the bad guys to have guns, it's dangerous because you have lots of bad guys that think it's cool to hurt other people.
The people who live in ivory towers don't know what it's like to wonder if it's a good idea to cross the street or even turn around and go the other way, to avoid trouble, you probably do.  I'm pretty darn sure you have not high paid security guard watching your front gate, and the police aren't exactly focused on saving you either.
Dave Volek Added Feb 27, 2018 - 12:44pm
Thanks for this excellent article and keeping the thread going.
I have to concur that boycotting the NRA is pointless because the boycotters are no NRA members. But it was interesting that more than a few corporate sponsors pulled their perks from the NRA. Would you have any insights in this?
BTW, I did hear the speech by the NRA prez defending the second amendment. He sounded like a liberal-hating lunatic to me, but I thought the stance was pretty standard for the NRA.
mark henry smith Added Feb 27, 2018 - 2:59pm
Riley, just be Wayne LaPierre said them and I discribe them as scare tactics to his loyal followers, doesn't mean there isn't some truth to them. And he did say something to the effect that the liberals in Washington  want to take away the rights of the American people to defend themselves from government something, let's call it overreach.
I have no problem with gun ownership. I'm a libertarian when it comes to criminalizing things to control behavior. If people want things, all criminalizing them does is push them into the shadows, and the people who most want them will pay the most and use them in the most unhealthy way. Allow people to have them. Change the ammo. Make it less lethal.
But as far as arming teachers, putting more armed guards in school, making schools an even more violent atmosphere, where eventually an issued gun will be taken by an angry student, where a swat team will accidentally shoot an armed teacher when a student slams the school and teachers are running around with their guns out, is not the answer to the problem we want answered.
Psych tests. right. How will they be written to determine if someone is dangerous? What if a question is, you hear a noise downstairs at night. You pull out your gun. Do you turn on the lights on from upstairs to give the person, perhaps, the chance to get away, or do you come down shooting at shadows? Is it required that you announce your intention before shooting? And if someone's really crazy, or criminal, or both, as has been shown they will find a straw purchaser, or buy illegal.
I guess the best approach has to be a TSA approach like they have in Philly schools. All backpacks and packages x-rayed coming in. Buy stock in x-ray machine companies.     
Riley Brown Added Feb 27, 2018 - 3:46pm
Dave,  "insight" no, but opinion yes, and I do know the difference.  I will gladly speculate for your amusement. 
I am guessing some ambitious anti gun folks discovered a few companies that cooperated with the NRA in an attempt to get more business and are threatening to make a big deal out of that cooperation if the companies don't quit doing it.  A credit card company that offers an NRA card that is just like all their other cards but has NRA stuff pictured on the front makes a good example.  That probably worked for years but now the NRA's name and any association with guns might cost the other card company members from a much larger public, so they try to disassociate themselves by no longer offering cards with an NRA logo on the front.  They hope the NRA folks won't notice and switch to another card, and they also hope that will stop anti gun folks from asking the public to boycott them because they "support the NRA". 
It's all symbolic.  The NRA doesn't want the cards their member do, and they aren't the NRA they are your neighbors who will continue to have credit cards perhaps from the same companies, whether or not those cards have an NRA logo on them.  Those members will probably continue to enjoy all the same perks from other companies too, just not by claiming to be a NRA member.
I'm also guessing all the card companies have teams of sales people who look for organizations they can appeal to by offering cards to them with their organizations material on the front.  I would not be surprised if their company denied a Nazi White Supremacist group's request for a card for the same reason.
Ben McCargo Added Feb 27, 2018 - 11:43pm
Riley, me too; putting more laws on top of things we don't even do correctly makes no sense.  And you're right; it only hurts the guy who just wants to own a gun legally.  And I'll concede that we have that in some instances right now.
But that still doesn't mean that we can't tweak what we're doing, does it?  If no then that's only because we succumb to fear; fear of our government.  Shouldn't the NRA evolve to meet today's threats?  And shouldn't that evolution mean that they're willing to talk about substantive reform on how well we implement the laws already on the books?  That's all I'm talking about.  
Riley Brown Added Feb 28, 2018 - 11:26am
Ben, I do think sometimes our laws need to be changed to meet new world conditions that our founders didn't envision, and thankfully they provided the amendment process for that purpose, but at the same time I am against nullifying the constitution by legislating from the bench.
I've looked at the NRA website and they don't seem to take a hard core stand on gun ownership, they do moderate their stands.  For example I know they are opposed to letting criminals or insane people have guns, and the second amendment doesn't say that.  They seem to think training is very important, and don't just talk the talk, they also offer training, even free gun safety programs for children, which tells them not to even touch a gun but instead report it to adults right away. 
I've never heard them say they object to laws that forbid private citizens from having nuclear weapons, even thought back when the framers wrote the constitution it was ok for a private citizen to own a cannon that could sink a navy ship.
They do object to the mountain of ongoing legislation that makes it complicated, difficult and sometimes impossible for common citizens to buy, own and use their guns and that doesn't surprise me, their members all want to continue to be able to buy, own and use their guns. If they ever said enough is enough, get rid of all the guns, all their members would abandon them.
What else would you expect them to do?
Doug Plumb Added Feb 28, 2018 - 1:00pm
When you advocate for gun control, you are saying that only our dope dealing pedophile and child molesting satanist government should have guns. History shows what the Bolsheviks do after taking all the guns away. Its a UN satanist mandate.
Riley Brown Added Mar 1, 2018 - 10:06am
Doug, which post are you referring to, lots of the posters in this forum thought some degree of gun control is a good idea.  Please be much more specific.
Nobody's Sweetheart Added Mar 1, 2018 - 12:02pm
Outside of making some people feel good and self-important, boycotting the NRA is kind of like screaming at the Sun; either way, it is met with the most profound indifference imaginable. It's fair to say that I'm armed to the teeth, but I never even considered joining the NRA. Several dudes I occasionally go shooting with are also confirmed non-NRA members. It doesn't stop the haters though. For example, one time while having a gun-cleaning party at my house, my little JAP bitch neighbor came home, saw us, and slammed her door so hard she broke several pieces of glass. Slammed doors don't break window glass, people do.
The culture is definitely changing. I remember the days where people would drive around with full gun racks in their vehicles, stopping at places like bars, liquor stores, restaurants, etc. Try that now and an airstrike would probably be the result. It has come some way; before 1934, you could buy a machine gun through the mail using a fake name. What it all boils down to is, not surprisingly, money. Rich and well-to-do people will always be able to source whatever they want, and on the flip side, so will terrorists and criminals.
mark henry smith Added Mar 1, 2018 - 1:27pm
We now see with the Israeli boycott, the limits of boycotts, when the boycotted start to boycott the boycotters. Oh, now will boy cots be boycotted at Dick's and Walmart?
It all comes down to clout and no matter what you think, if you look at the numbers, the NRA has a tremendous amount of clout. They're taking their usual approach, have their friends in Washington form a committee to study the problem, then another committee will be formed to study the problems the first committee found, then ... you get the picture. When you want nothing to get done, but want to look concerned, form a committee. If you want something to get done, propose legislation.  
Riley Brown Added Mar 1, 2018 - 5:18pm
Michael I don't belong to the NRA but it sounds like you're more their type since you indicate you have more than a few.  I have friends who have many and your gun cleaning party baffles me, they all seem to think guns should be cleaned right after they are used.  I've even been shown how much better they shoot, (much more accurate), if they are cleaned frequently during a shooting session.  My pistol will start to wander a little if I don't clean it before I'm finished with a box of ammo.  My friends say if I didn't shoot lead it would take longer but it would still happen.
It wasn't that long ago when people could openly carry a loaded gun in public, in Calif, what was illegal at that time was concealing it.  I remember my dad used to put the gun on his seat in plain sight.  That changed after the Black Panthers showed up to a high profile court trial with loaded guns.  In response they changed the law forbidding people to carry loaded weapons in public.  Since then the laws have gotten increasingly restrictive until recently after the "open carry" people got a lot of attention and now you can't even openly carry an unloaded gun in public.
I'm not sure but right now I don't think it's legal to buy a gun in Los Angeles and bring it home in the factory box, even if you don't yet own bullets.  I know it's illegal to carry one across the street to show it to a neighbor and if there is a school on the street behind your street I don't think you can clean you gun in your front yard, even if you don't have bullets.  I know you can't have it in your truck cab, and it's irresponsible to leave it in your truck bed, but you can't take it into a gas station, even to pay for gas, so what can you do?  I feel sorry for people who hunt, I don't think they can in a simple pick up truck without breaking the law.
TexasLynn Added Mar 1, 2018 - 5:27pm
Riley B >>  I feel sorry for people who hunt, I don't think they can (transport a weapon) in a simple pick up truck without breaking the law.
Would that fact then render such laws unconstitutional... since for all intent and purpose they infringe on a persons right to own and posses a weapon?
Because that would be a comfort to me as they beat the crap our of me and take me to jail. :)
Nobody's Sweetheart Added Mar 1, 2018 - 6:13pm
Riley, hahahahahaha! Yes, I guess I can come off as a redneck, huh! Consistent with me being a misfit and weirdo everywhere I go, the average NRA type is FAR too right-wing for me. The last gun store I visited had an owner who was blaring some right-wing guy on the radio and saying how ALL liberals are assholes. The party I mentioned was after an epic shooting session we had just before the Feds closed the land to shooting activities. Yes, guns should be cleaned as soon as possible after use, especially after using ammunition with corrosive primers, but outside of old and/or imported ammo, corrosive primers aren't used much these days. Unjacketed bullets definitely build up lead much, much faster.
I'm not nearly as into the sport as I was, and have sold off about half of what I had. As far as I know, in CA, guns purchased and picked up after the waiting period must have a trigger lock installed (they make you buy one if you don't bring one with you), and no ammunition with it, of course. The gun, like all guns, must be transported in a locked container (the trunk of a car is considered to be a locked container) separate from any ammo, but places like glove compartments and consoles, whether or not they have locks, are forbidden. Personally, I don't have a problem with that, nor with magazines limited to ten rounds.
Pardero Added Mar 2, 2018 - 2:30am
You really should join. Be prepared to be inundated with requests for donations.
Someone as articulate and logical might have a future as a spokesperson. Dana is ok but I believe that you could do better.
As an aside, I don't mention it locally but a quirk of fate had me born in Northern California. Too bad it has not already become the state of Jefferson. 
Riley Brown Added Mar 2, 2018 - 10:26am
Lynn I think the complex web of laws that make it impossible for many people to do things like hunt and shoot legally without buying another vehicle should be thrown out, but the courts and politicians are all very political and I think many enjoy the fact that they have created an environment where gun owners are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Breaking gun laws is very serious even if the person who did it has in every other way been a perfect model citizen and just does it in ignorance.  Right now in California that happens all the time, especially with regard to family inheriting guns.  Many children get Dad's old guns without realizing there are many that they can't legally inherit.  Old widows who never knew much about their husbands guns give them to his hunting buddies not realizing that's highly illegal.  One brother might give the gun dad gave her to his brother who hunts and legally owns lots of other guns, without realizing that makes both of them criminals.  Children can easily inherit boxes of gun stuff that includes things the probably don't' know are highly illegal like old high capacity magazines or illegal rapid fire trigger enhancers.  They might not even know what they are or have a gun they would fit.
The assault weapon laws are so complicated that most police can only guess what is and is not legal if it's not a major brand weapon.  The laws were changed even after the list came out.
Riley Brown Added Mar 2, 2018 - 10:33am
Michael, I do have problems with the transportation laws that make it illegal to transport a gun and the ammunition in your car because several of my friends have small open bed trucks and where we live only an idiot would leave a gun in the bed of their truck while they pay for gas or go get a bite to eat in a restaurant.  Two of my friends don't even have tailgates.  Does that mean they don't have the right to buy a gun?  The only place they could put it is on the seat next to them, and if someone else is riding with them it and the bullets have to go on the floor on the passenger side, or in the passenger's lap.
By the way it is also very illegal for them to make a locking compartment under the bed of the truck where they can stash the gun so it would not be in the cab and be secured out of sight from people who might want to steel it.  They can get busted big time for having a compartment under the bed, even if its not locked and empty and they have no gun at all.
The gun laws are a stacked deck, if they want to bust someone there is almost always a law they can use if they want to.
Nobody's Sweetheart Added Mar 3, 2018 - 1:58am
Riley, if I didn't know any better, I'd say that you are a CA resident, as am I, lol. As long as someone is familiar with how a "locked container" is defined, their chances of serving five-to-life are greatly diminished.
"The gun laws are a stacked deck, if they want to bust someone there is almost always a law they can use if they want to."
Hahahahahaha! I cannot improve upon that statement! The BATF and the IRS have that in common for sure!
Riley Brown Added Mar 3, 2018 - 12:10pm
Michael, fortunately most police know the current laws are frequently incompatible with common sense and don't enforce them unless they are already upset at you for something else.  They aren't going to arrest you if get pulled over for a ticket and say "yes sir officer, I do have a gun in my truck, I'm going shooting today, and yes I also have the bullets I'm going to shoot with me too"  They know if you drive a small pick up truck you have no choice.
If you are foolish enough to object to anything they do, or perhaps even caught taking pictures of them abusing someone else they can quickly become the gun law enforcement jerk from hell and will gladly respond by writing you up for any minor transgressions they can think of, sometimes even if they don't really exist.  I argued with one  cop and he threatened to find drugs in my car if I didn't shut up, so I shut up.  They are in control not us and if they want to find  drugs or say your gun wasn't locked up properly they can and there is nothing you can do about it.
Nobody's Sweetheart Added Mar 3, 2018 - 1:30pm
One time while out shooting in the sticks, a pair of sheriff's deputies drove up and checked us out. The cops were cool and just doing their jobs, and once they saw that we weren't a bunch of assholes, they engaged us in a little gun chat before leaving. I took the precaution of storing my tracer rounds away from the other ammo, lol.
At the same place about a year or so later, we drove up to the spot just in time to see a bunch of police vehicles blocking off the area. Apparently, some real assholes were up there, and when the cops gave them a routine lookover, as they did us, they got confrontational. They wound up getting busted for illegal weapons, illegal ammo, and a couple of different kinds of dope. I doubt the cops planted all of that, but you're right, when they want to get somebody, they'll get them one way or the other. The Rampart scandal in LA was proof of that.
Thomas Sutrina Added Mar 3, 2018 - 3:01pm
What your saying simple is that this is not a nation anymore of common laws based on the law of nature and natures God.
But a nation under tranny because the laws and regulations are to numerous to comprehend and impossible to stay within.
Thomas Sutrina Added Mar 3, 2018 - 3:16pm
Boycott the NRA all you want but the members of the NRA realize this 
Most gun control arguments miss the point. If all control boils fundamentally to force, how can one resist aggression without equal force? How can a truly “free” state exist if the individual citizen is enslaved to the forceful will of individual or organized aggressors? It cannot.   and 
The Second Amendment is timeless for our Founders grasped that self-defense is three-fold: every free individual must protect themselves against the evil will of the man, the mob and the state.
When the Rule of Law disappears, we are ruled by the whims of men.

-- Tiffany Madison
Tiffany is a writer and veteran's advocate. Her column focuses on civil liberties, veteran's issues and current events. You can follow her on Twitter @tiffanymadison, Facebook or her website.
Riley Brown Added Mar 3, 2018 - 3:21pm
So much for the Delta boycott, looks like Delta took it in the shorts:
They stopped offering the "group discounts" to NRA members and lost a $40 million dollar deal in the process. 
Only 13 NRA members had used the discount, as I said, the discounts offered to NRA members aren't anything to brag about.  Everyone gets discounts offered to them all the time.
I think it servers Delta right.
Riley Brown Added Mar 5, 2018 - 9:53am
Another reason why boycotting the NRA makes no difference, the NRA is you neighbors, and we have no way of stopping them from obtaining the same discounts via other avenues.