Seeing Red this Week Until It All Became So Clear

Last Thursday the monster announced that he intended to impose a 25% tariff on imported steel and a 10% tariff on imported aluminum.  The devastating implications of this Faustian deal with the devil are inescapable.  A bright eight-year old child should be able to understand two issues which are central to this crime against the economies of the world and in particular detrimental to the people of the U.S.A.


Free trade and its attendant globalism are the two cornerstones of the unparalleled growth and prosperity of the U.S., China, Canada, Mexico, the EU, the Pacific Rim, South America and other economies for the last twenty-five years.


A tariff on international suppliers of the two most important metals in construction and manufacturing can only hurt everyone.


It’s that simple.  You do not need to be an expert on economics, business or industry.  Steel is the most important durable metal.  Everything from suspension bridges, freeways, skyscrapers, office buildings, automobiles, office furniture, agricultural equipment, bicycles, wheelchairs, hospital and medical equipment, street signs, fencing, armor, concrete reinforcement and plumbing is made with steel.  An attack on the global steel trade is an attack on humanity.


Aluminum has always been a valuable, lightweight metal that is every bit as useful as steel.  Steel is better for cars in that it absorbs a crash more reliably.  But automobile companies such as Ford Motor Company have pioneered integrating steel and aluminum on the same chassis to provide a safer, lighter version of tradition automobiles that gives better fuel economy without sacrificing safety.  I know.  I own a 2014 Ford Expedition.


Aluminum bicycles are incredibly popular for their light weight.  But real bike people know that a lightweight steel frame is the best because of the way it flexes and bends.  My point is that an assault on the steel and aluminum industries is about the single most counter-productive measure that any president could even be imagined to propose.  Why is it needed?  Alcoa has also been doing so well in the last few years that they split their company into two publicly traded companies. Mrs. Junior had a hunch to buy Alcoa about five years ago. I told her to go for it. Aluminum was being used in automobiles, bicycles and manufacturing more than ever before.  We made money. Explain to me why we have to protect U.S. aluminum interests from harmful importers?  If U.S. Steel was under threat, no one told me.


I have been seeing red over this abusive threat for five days now. It finally occurred to me today. I had heard that Trump's associate, Carl Icahn, had divested his interest in the Manitowoc Company just days before the fatal announcement on Thursday. Carl Icahn, a billionaire financier and longtime pal of Donald Trump’s, sold more than $30 million of stock in a steel-dependent company days before new tariffs on steel imports were announced.

I finally put two and two together. Trump and his fellow conspirator/cohorts are simply using his muscle as POTUS to set up various killings in the stock market. Think about it.  This is from the company website of the Manitowoc Company:

Founded in 1902, The Manitowoc Company, Inc. is a leading global manufacturer of cranes and lifting solutions with manufacturing, distribution, and service facilities in 20 countries. Manitowoc is recognized as one of the premier innovators and providers of crawler cranes, tower cranes, and mobile cranes for the heavy construction industry, which are complemented by a slate of industry-leading aftermarket product support services. In 2016, Manitowoc’s net sales totaled $1.6 billion, with over half generated outside the United States.

Why would anyone dump stock in a company that was doing this well? Sell high, right?  These are the type of global leading companies that will be hurt by Trump’s insane proposition should he actually go through with it.  The economic ripples are unpredictable.  Who can say who or which industries will be hit the hardest.


Bottom line.  Honey Badger doesn't care.  Trump doesn't care who gets hurt.  It only matters that he and his merry band of criminals make money.  Wake up.  Trump doesn't care if you live or die.  He enjoys hurting people.


Silver lining.  Fawning sycophants that they are, the nincompoops at NPR actually located a U.S. company that is thrilled by the news.  The last manufacturer of steel beer kegs in the U.S.  Good news, everyone.

Trump is fucking up to something. His ignorant minions no longer even question his motives for his insane public and trading policies. He truly is a charismatic dictator with a lemming following that would gladly jump to their deaths if that was what was required.­­


Industries, companies, employees and people will be directly hurt by this misguided tariff, here at home and across the world. It's one thing to fuck up the tax base with a tax plan that features a seven year payday loan for ignorant Trump supporters as well as the rest of us who didn't ask for it.. Anyone old enough to retire will probably be dead before the shit hits the fan.  It's quite another problem to sabotage a global manufacturing economy.

So, White House economic adviser, Gary Cohn, intends to resign.  Mr. Cohn had actually drafted his letter of resignation after the monster’s comments on Charlottesville.  But he stuck around long enough to promote the tax cuts.  That’s right. He headed up the team that drafted this attack on the government and the economy of the United States of America.  But Trump's latest economic outrage, the criminal and misguided proposed tariffs are just too much for a conservative free trade advocate.


That's right.  Conservatives and liberals and just about everyone else agree that free trade is the greatest engine of prosperity for all of us.  It's hard to argue with success.  Can you believe the pampered slave to his own dick has the nerve to whine about how Canada and Mexico have treated the U.S. unfairly with NAFTA.  NAFTA has been an unparalleled success.  It brought Mexico out of poverty.  Trump shits in his golden toilet.  U.S. auto manufacturers have plants in Mexico.  Maquiladoras in Mexico produce Fender guitars.  This is what golden success is all about.  Hell, Mexicans don't even want to get into the United States any more.  They are doing fine in Mexico.  Every country can do a better job of taking care of all of its citizens, not just the lucky ones.  But Trump has already demonstrated that he is willing to let Americans fall into poverty.  He is willing that some will lose health insurance.  Need I go into how personally selfish he is?  How he screws employees and contractors in his personal businesses?  Is that really who you want to lead your party?  If the trade imbalance with Canada and Mexico is somehow destructive to U.S. interests, will someone please explain that to me?


The White House told the New York Times there was no singular cause behind Cohn’s departure, but the decision comes after a high-profile skirmish between Cohn, his fellow free-trade advocates, and proponents of the heavy steel and aluminum tariffs President Donald Trump announced Thursday.


Here is the article about Cohn’s failed battle with his conscience last summer.


Let’s hear some pushback from the reasonable and intelligent conservatives?  How could Trump possibly get away with this?  Well, the answer probably lies somewhere in his stock portfolio. Like anything else, follow the money.  Remember this guy is the ethical nightmare president who refused to divest himself of any of his holdings no matter what the potential conflict of interests may or may not have been or will yet be in days to come


Didn’t he hand over Trump enterprises to his own children so that he, as POTUS, could continue to send business their way under the guise that it was the closest and most convenient lodgings?  SS paying for a floor at Trump Tower?  Foreign dignitaries staying at Trump hotels?  Why do I even bother to go on?


This tariff thing really woke me up to what is happening now.


This is a naked power grab.  I repeat myself.  The monster simply does not care who or how many people get hurt by this.


Author's note:  Some sentences from this article have been lifted from NYT content without direct attribution, but it was only in the interest of expediency.  I stand by this article as original content which quotes accredited sources.


Flying Junior Added Mar 7, 2018 - 1:42am
What really just about made me jump up to my feet this morning was the public statement from White House National Trade Council Director Peter Navarro on Trump's decision to impose tariffs on aluminum and steel imports.
Navarro came up with the two stupidest, most simple-minded and erroneous examples possible of potential reverberations of the proposed tariffs.
"Aluminum beer cans contain about three cents worth of aluminum.  So a 10% tariff on aluminum would raise the cost of a beer by about three tenths of a cent."
"If a car contains around 400 pounds of aluminum, that would raise the price of a $35,000 automobile by about $40."
Captain Obvious reminds us, "What about the 25% tariff on steel?"  I only say this to point up the ignorance and naïveté of Navarro's analysis.
My blood just about boiled out of my eyeballs.
wsucram15 Added Mar 7, 2018 - 4:13am
FJ..dont get me started on this.  My former company imported metal and exported specialized wire, from all over the all over the world. Sweden, Canada, UK,France and on rare occasions Brazil were the bulk of imports.  But Exports to almost everywhere in the world were most of our business.  We were the only place to sell a specialized product which was patented.  It was expensive to begin with..I cannot imagine adding 25% on some of the product.  But that is why Ohio is raising such objection, the company that bought my company  has its main office in Ohio our expensive line is now fabricated there along with a huge kine of other products and the other metals are processed around the world. 
The metal costs are ridiculous as it was..some countries had no tariffs, but that seems like it will all change.  Watching Trump talk with Sweden there was funny though its an EU country..they have other taxes and tariffs such as VAT, that they do not waive, which on a million dollar invoice is alot.
opher goodwin Added Mar 7, 2018 - 4:34am
FJ - 'Carl Icahn, a billionaire financier and longtime pal of Donald Trump’s, sold more than $30 million of stock in a steel-dependent company days before new tariffs on steel imports were announced.'
That was reported in passing over here and nobody made a big deal of it. Yet if you look at this coldly it is extremely worrying. It looks as if Trump forewarned his chums what he was going to do so that they could make money.
That would be difficult to prove but quite chilling if it was correct. Is he really running the office for his, and his friends, benefit so blatantly then it takes corruption to a whole new level.
wsucram15 Added Mar 7, 2018 - 4:38am
Opher..its not the only deal Ichan has profited from since Trump has been in office, he did serve in the WH as an adviser for a time and when trump changed some tax code he left one specific thing in to benefit Ichan, who profited enormously, I think NY state is investigating that.  
Jeffry Gilbert Added Mar 7, 2018 - 4:44am
You aren't against trading stocks nor profiting from it. Perhaps this screed is anger at being left out, of not being in the know so you too could profit. Expeditions don't last forever doncha know.
Doug Plumb Added Mar 7, 2018 - 5:32am
re "Free trade and its attendant globalism are the two cornerstones of the unparalleled growth and prosperity of the U.S., China, Canada, Mexico, the EU, the Pacific Rim, South America and other economies for the last twenty-five years."
If it seems good for your economy it must be good then, right? What about the wars, poverty and disease spread by globalism? Not feeling it yet? You will.
opher goodwin Added Mar 7, 2018 - 6:09am
Jeanne - I'm sure it is prevalent. He is using his office to greatly increase his own wealth and that of his friends. What did the electorate elect him for? Wasn't he supposed to help the people?
Leroy Added Mar 7, 2018 - 7:05am
FJ, if it were O doing this, I would be screaming.  O always thought he was the smartest person in the room and thought he was playing chess when the rest of the world was playing checkers.  O was an ideologue; Trump is not.  I am not worried.
I have to give Trump a ten on style points.  He's out there.  His bombastic style stirs the pot.  He sets the bar high then negotiates.  He makes the world thinks that he is insane and might actually do what he says.  It is enormous power if one can get away with it.  Yes, he is a bully, but he is on our side.  He is playing checkers, while the rest of the world thinks the game is chess.  The rest of the world, including yourself, is playing an ideological game.  Trump is simply looking out for what he believes is in the best interest of the US.
There is no doubt that the world has taken advantage of the US.  I was all for NAFTA.  As an engineer, I would be free to go to Canada to work anytime I wanted.  Well, it didn't work out that way.  Most Canadian engineers are "professional" engineers.  Most American engineers are not.  It is a liability in the US.  It is only a matter of certification.  It's like being a hairdresser.  It is meant to exclude others who haven't paid the price.  Canada uses it as a means of keeping American engineers out, or, at least, making them pay for a work permit.  The US still honors the agreement with Canada.  That's just one example.  China uses unfair practices to keep Western companies out of China, and, if they do come, China makes it expensive.  There is no reciprocal treatment of companies in China. 
I do think the US has gotten a bad deal with these agreements.  Free trade is good, but not when a country puts itself at a disadvantage.
"He truly is a charismatic dictator with a lemming following that would gladly jump to their deaths if that was what was required.­­"
Charismatic is the last epithet I would apply to Trump.
"But Trump's latest economic outrage, the criminal and misguided proposed tariffs are just too much for a conservative free trade advocate."
No offense, but calling Trump's proposal "criminal" is a sign of a deranged mind.  You might oppose it, but it is far from being criminal.  It is not rational to suggest that it is criminal.  Relax.  Take it easy, man.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Mar 7, 2018 - 8:54am
Century Aluminum in KY announced today they're adding 300 jobs due to the tariff plan.
wsucram15 Added Mar 7, 2018 - 9:26am
thats good jeffry...
Even A Broken Clock Added Mar 7, 2018 - 9:32am
FJ, tell us what you really think about Trump and this tariff plan. I couldn't quite tell from your post <grin>
The quote from the Bush administration that will long survive all participants was Donald Rumsfield's quote about known knowns, and known unknowns, etc. I think Wilbur Ross just came up with the quote that will survive Trump. Speaking of what will occur with the tariffs, Ross said:
I just said what he has said, he has said. If he says something different, it'll be something different
I cannot think of any phrase that has been uttered by anyone in this cacophony of incompetence that reigns in the Trump administration that better defines the transitory nature of the what passes for the thought process of Donald Trump.
Dino Manalis Added Mar 7, 2018 - 10:12am
Tariffs were Trump's campaign promise, not sound economics, trade develops gradually and requires long-term objectives.  Unfortunately, Cohn has left because he disagrees with tariffs, but Trump still needs Cohn on trade and other economic issues.  Chinese steel exports are merely 1% to the U.S., most of it comes from friends and allies.  America should protect intellectual property against China!
Ian Thorpe Added Mar 7, 2018 - 10:44am
So good to see all the usual suspects implicitly stating that they wholly approve of the human rights abuses linked to working conditions and safety issues in nations such as India, Brazil, Turkey and China which are among the main exporters of steel and steel products to the USA. The tariff is of course aimed at stopping the dumping of inferior quality, cheap steel from these countries in the US economy.
NB the largest single source of imported steel for the US is Canada where conditions are good but where, I assume, the tariff will not apply because of NAFTA.
Tell me guys, do you really think indulging in another hate fest targeting Trump is more important than discouraging human rights abuse? Wish you would all make up your minds just what your priorities are. they seem to change from hour to hour.
opher goodwin Added Mar 7, 2018 - 10:45am
I kinda think that people are missing the main point - did Trump tell people in advance so that they could bale out? That is sorta illegal I would suggest.
Ian Thorpe Added Mar 7, 2018 - 10:50am
EABC, good to see you remember that Rumsfeld quote. It was unfair the way the lefties went after him because although he was generally regarded as a deeply unpleasant man, there was some truth in what he said about the known unknowns and the unknown unknowns. He should have gone a step further however. It's the unknown knows, the stuff that we know but don't know we know that gets really interesting.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Mar 7, 2018 - 11:02am
You must really be pissed the EU has levied 72% tariffs on steel imports there. Jesusfuckingchristonagoddamnfuckingcrutch how fuckin' DARE they!!!!!
Bill H. Added Mar 7, 2018 - 11:45am
Another example of Trump's priorities in action. Trump himself, Carl Icahn and many other of Trump's cronies will benefit from this as was expected.
The White House dodged a question from a Fox Business reporter about whether Trump had talked to Icahn prior to his announcement.
“Uhh...I’m not aware of any of their — of a recent conversation between the two of them. So I’d have to verify and get back to you. But I’m not aware of any conversations,” uttered Sarah Huckabee.
Do we actually think that Carl Icahn will actually be nailed for insider trading? I doubt it, as even if he was, Trump would pardon him immediately.
In the mean time, all of us (the consumers) will pay for the tariffs in purchase pricing that is always passed on to the consumer. It will most likely also result in job losses and lost profits (if companies decide to accept lower profit margins).
opher goodwin Added Mar 7, 2018 - 1:52pm
It is amazing to me how Trump's blatant self-serving actions are excused. They'd want Obama shot.
Flying Junior Added Mar 7, 2018 - 2:09pm
That's an excellent example of exactly what I was hoping to illustrate, an innovative, international company that can be harmed by the brutal hammering of a trade war.  Trump better be careful.  He might have to pay more for his next iron fist.
Flying Junior Added Mar 7, 2018 - 2:13pm
How could that be true?
Captain Gilbert,
Maybe I would care for that inside trader lifestyle, it's hard to say.  I like walking on the beach as well.  My favorite walk is from the Scripps Pier to Black's Beach if the tide stays under three feet.
As far as my little truck built at the Kentucky Truck Plant, a more likely scenario than its early demise will be that gas goes up to $20/gallon with a huge gas tax and I'll be the last guy who didn't save enough money to buy an electric car.
Flying Junior Added Mar 7, 2018 - 2:24pm
Thank you Leroy for changing the narrative with personal experience.
"If O was doing this, I'd be screaming."
Flying Junior Added Mar 7, 2018 - 2:31pm
I sure hope all of the steel being used by CalTrans and the city of San Diego is of good quality or I'll probably go flying off the raised HOV lanes on I-15 N or be crushed by the Trolley at UCSD during the next big earthquake.
I think the article cited by Captain Gilbert addresses something about Chinese hot-rolled flat steel products such as are used to make seamless pipes.
Flying Junior Added Mar 7, 2018 - 2:34pm
I just happened to read the full text of Rumsfeld's remarks on the front page of the Los Angeles Times.  It was more than a sound byte.  My eyes were swimming on the page.
Jeff Michka Added Mar 7, 2018 - 3:08pm
O was an ideologue; Trump is not.-Yeah, bad fault for everything.  If Trump isn't an ideologue, how does that explain Trump Tribalists?  If they could burn their ideologs, jk, they'd be warm, at least. FJr notes: I think the article cited by Captain Gilbert addresses something about Chinese hot-rolled flat steel products such as are used to make seamless pipes. -Like in the pipes used on the XL pipeline?
Jeff Michka Added Mar 7, 2018 - 3:11pm
I can't wait to see those thousands of steelworkers flowing back to work post tariffs.  LOL  And those coal miners, too, now that "American Steel is back."
Jeff Michka Added Mar 7, 2018 - 3:12pm
Hey, did those "Corn Laws" work out for you?
Doug Plumb Added Mar 7, 2018 - 6:22pm
Merchantilism beats globalism - less blood.
opher goodwin Added Mar 7, 2018 - 6:26pm
Jeff - apart from starvation, a steep raise in prices for working people, a big downturn in the economy and general misery, they were a great success. The Tory's loved them. They sure put a stop to cheap foreign grain. 
Jeff Michka Added Mar 7, 2018 - 6:44pm
opher goodwin sez: apart from starvation, a steep raise in prices for working people, a big downturn in the economy and general misery, they were a great success.-And gave the US it's first taste of mass immigration.  The Irish, fleeing the potato famine were greeted with signs on rooming houses:  "No dogs, No niggers, no Irish."  Ah, we are a nation of traditions, past and present.  But now, the Irish are part of "the white guys tribe."
opher goodwin Added Mar 7, 2018 - 7:01pm
Jeff - what about the Poles? Are they included in the gang? Or the Italians?
Jeff Michka Added Mar 7, 2018 - 7:09pm
opher g asks: Jeff - what about the Poles? Are they included in the gang? Or the Italians?-Well, the Poles and Italians are now in the "Trump tribe of white guys." so as long as they adhere to tribal guidelines, they're okay now.  LOL
George N Romey Added Mar 7, 2018 - 7:24pm
This will either be a genius move or put the final nail in the Trump coffin. The truth is no one really knows what will happen.
Bill H. Added Mar 7, 2018 - 7:35pm
As soon as Trump discovers that most of the US steel mills from the past are either now condominiums or rusting hulks, he may change his tune. I don't believe for one minute that what is left of the US steel industry will want to invest in new foundries or steel mills since they will also have to pay for the increased price of steel and aluminum thanks to the tariffs.
George N Romey Added Mar 7, 2018 - 7:41pm
Most of the steel mills in the US now are highly automated. No sweating dude taking the molten steel out of the cooker to cool.
IIRC a new GM plant is going to employ 200 people.
Flying Junior Added Mar 7, 2018 - 10:53pm
Good point, George.
Flying Junior Added Mar 7, 2018 - 10:54pm
The most obvious thing to me is that there is no way in hell the U.S. Steel Industry could even cover the needs of the U.S. Military, let alone supply the infrastructure pipe dreams of the Trump supporters.
I have been thinking about Ian's comment all day and I still just can't see it.
So good to see all the usual suspects implicitly stating that they wholly approve of the human rights abuses linked to working conditions and safety issues in nations such as India, Brazil, Turkey and China which are among the main exporters of steel and steel products to the USA...Tell me guys, do you really think indulging in another hate fest targeting Trump is more important than discouraging human rights abuse?
No one said that they approve of human rights abuses, wholly or otherwise.  Since Trump is central to this argument, just what is he doing to promote human rights across the world?  Have a wankfest with Dutarte?  But I took your argument at face value.  By supporting free trade in the steel market with India and China, am I supporting inhuman working conditions?  Honestly I don't know enough about it to answer definitively.  But I can answer in general terms.  Cutting off or monetizing the steel trade with these countries will do nothing to alleviate worker conditions.  In truth, the living standards for both countries have been greatly improved by global trade.  China, in particular is the only nation on the face of the Earth that has an emerging and rising middle class.  Just like Britain and the States used to have so long ago.
Another topic that came to mind is slave labor, or subsistence wage labor.  In the Clinton years and the beginning of the millennium, China was probably the most guilty of slavery-like conditions that rural emigrants to the cities were forced to endure to partake of the beauties of the almighty dollar.  Who could forget the hilarious leaked video of Mitt Romney gushing about the Chinese factory girls and how good they had it working for peanuts.  The barbed wire was to keep them in, right Mitt?  If not for the walls, people would sneak in and try to start working a shift and later demand hourly wage.  You can't make this shit up.  Comedy gold.  Dark comedy.
But as far as tacitly endorsing slave labor, I would guess that most of us are complicit.  Encouraging free trade helps to bring the unsung heroes with their tiny hands and fingers into the light.  Cutting off or monetizing these trade relationships can only aggravate their conditions.  At least I never bought an iPhone.  But I do own a beautiful, thick wool pile, Bidjar carpet hand-knotted in India.  I bought a 9' x 11' rug every bit as nice as anything ever woven in Iraq.  $400.  It was on year-end close-out.  But it is indicative of the prevalence of near-slave labor conditions.  I say just continue to support the industries.  It can only bring the wages up in the long run.  I am now tempted to buy an 8' x 2' runner in a beautiful Caucasian geometric design, thick and plush for 370 USD.  That is less than an Iranian carpet of a similar design and quality would have cost in 1975.
Leroy Added Mar 8, 2018 - 1:27am
"Thank you Leroy for changing the narrative with personal experience."
You're welcomed, FJ.
opher goodwin Added Mar 8, 2018 - 3:44am
FJ - I can't see how a trade war with big tariffs on imported steel and aluminium does anything to improve working conditions around the world. I also don't think there was even an inkling of that in Trump's brain.
Flying Junior Added Mar 8, 2018 - 3:12pm
This isn't Trump's Piéce de Resistance or Magnum Opus just yet.  He is going to make Apple start building their computers in America!
Nice to see everybody.  It wasn't really meant as a hatefest.  Everybody already knows how I feel about the monster.  It was more of a wake-up call.  The funny thing is that conservative friends don't seem to be very concerned about it.  What's next, a tax on milk?  I thought conservatives didn't like taxes.  I guess a tariff is a really cool kind of tax.
Charles Frankhauser Added Mar 8, 2018 - 6:00pm
First there was wine in a box.  Now will there be beer in a box?
Leroy Added Mar 8, 2018 - 6:08pm
Wow!  You must have been really seeing red when O imposed a 266% tariff on China's cold-rolled steel.  I dare you to follow the link.  It shows the extent of China's cheating.
Thomas Sutrina Added Mar 8, 2018 - 6:25pm
President George W. Bush placed on imported steel on March 5, 2002 (took effect March 20). The tariffs were lifted by Bush on December 4, 2003. Research shows that the tariffs [~30% tax to consumers] adversely affected US GDP and employment.  
Obama put a 266% tariff(tax paid by consumers) on Chinese steel.  China is only the seventh biggest importer of steel to the U.S., behind Canada, Brazil, Russia, Mexico, South Korea and Turkey, Chinese steelmakers have received the most attention because their prices tend to be 20% to 50% lower than anybody else’s, say steel traders (government subsidies including pollutions abatement and/or scale at their factories).
Trump is kowtowing to crony steel corporations, swamp dwellers, at the expense of voters.  He already kowtowed to crony business interests by the tax cut passed.  The voters received the smallest piece with a time limit not placed on the crony capitalist.  Now he is reaching back into the pockets of Americans and handing out pink slips to Americans to serve the swamp dwellers. 
What happen to being the JOBS PRESIDENT  and making America Great Again?   Tariffs in 1921,1922, 1930 and 1940 resulted in a trade war that led to the Great Depression. 
Reducing the purchase power of Americans always leads to a recession because Americans can not purchase goods and services and thus less workers are needed to provide them.  Other nations can punish their people by applying a tax their citizens pay to purchase our goods and services.  There citizens loose also every time more then we do.
The trade deficit if only made up of Americans purchasing good and services says that we have a strong economy and is a healthy type of deficit.   
Need to kill two birds with one stone.  Shrink government which will shrink welfare as the economy becomes more competitive with less regulations.    
Mustafa Kemal Added Mar 8, 2018 - 8:31pm
Flying Junior, Peter Schiff gives a good analysis here IMO:
Leroy Added Mar 8, 2018 - 9:28pm
Thomas, if anything, Trump is kowtowing to the voters of the swing states that put him in office.
Flying Junior Added Mar 9, 2018 - 2:08am
Well Bros,
I don't really trust this Zero Hedge site.  If Obama enacted a temporary tariff on shitty steel from China, it sounds like it was an intelligent, targeted action.  The monster said that he was ready to use the proposed tariff as a, "cudgel" on Canada.  Take a moment to think about the implications.
target="_blank">President target="_blank">George W. Bush placed a tariff on imported target="_blank">steel on March 5, 2002 (took effect March 20). The tariffs were lifted by Bush on December 4, 2003. Research shows that the tariffs [~30% tax to consumers] adversely affected US GDP and employment. 
That's exactly what I was talking about, Thomas, adverse affects.

See my above comment on the quality of steel being used in California freeways, bridges and overpasses.  I should hope that every other project in our nation enjoys the same reliability.
It is interesting that none of you are upset, even though the business-friendly republican party is up in arms.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Mar 9, 2018 - 2:59am
the business-friendly republican party is up in arms.
Your confusion is understandable. Your hatred blinds you to the fact that a vast number of so-called republican congresscritters are Kaganites who loathe everything Trump and are actively plotting his overthrow.
Flying Junior Added Mar 9, 2018 - 3:16am
I'm sorry Jeffry.  I don't give a shit about your Kagan.  I looked it up one time.  Nobody knows who the hell is Kagan.
Are you out of your mind?  Kagan is the PNAC guy.  Yeah, that's right, the guy that Cheney and Rove followed to lead our nation so far astray.  This has nothing to do with sane republicans.
Is HRC a Kaganite?  I would seriously doubt that.
I'm trying not to hate.  But, of course I hate Trump.
I have had my differences with republicans.  Yet I applaud my fellow Americans who have had the balls to stand up to the greater political excesses of the monster.
How can you accuse moderate republicans of being Kaganites, if there really is such a thing?  These are the decent, sane conservative Americans.
Kagan, Schmagan.  Who the hell cares anymore?  These PNAC bastards have already had their day with GWB and Darth Cheney.
No one adheres to their misplaced philosophy.  The only troubling thing is that Trump's philosophy is almost as damning and dangerous.  Trump does not need to invade because GWB already completely destroyed the Middle East.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Mar 9, 2018 - 4:07am

Robert Kagan (/ˈkɡən/; born September 26, 1958) is a neoconservative American historian and foreign-policy commentator. Kagan, however prefers the term "liberal interventionist" to describe himself.[1] Some have characterized his approach to international relations theory as realist.[2]
A co-founder of the neoconservative Project for the New American Century,[3][4][5] he is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.[6] Kagan has been a foreign policy adviser to U.S. Republican presidential candidates as well as Democratic administrations via the Foreign Affairs Policy Board. He writes a monthly column on world affairs for The Washington Post, and is a contributing editor at The New Republic.
Kagan left the Republican Party in 2016 due to what he described as Donald Trump's fascism,[7] and endorsed Hillary Clinton.
The neo-cons fell in behind Killary when it became apparent Trump was a viable candidate. 
Kagan held a fund raiser for Killary
Kagan is vehemenently CFR. Review their long string of failures. 
Kagan has influence far beyond what is described above. The neo-cons (Kaganite branch) and their neo-liberal cousins are the responsible parties for the utter shitshow that is DUHmerica today. 
Sniff all you want at the terminology but for your own sake get a deeper understanding of what is arrayed against you and everyone else on the planet by these lizards hiding in human skin.  
Flying Junior Added Mar 9, 2018 - 4:27am
Well, okay, fucking fine.  I repeat.  No one gives a shit about Kagan.
I had been supporting Hillary Rodham Clinton for president since 2006.  I had been hearing wonderful things about Bill and his foundation for several years since the late 1990s on UCTV.  He was one helluva ex-president, surpassing even Jimmy Carter.  I heard Obama speak at the 2004 democratic convention and was duly impressed, as was the rest of the world.  But I chose to support HRC in the 2008 democratic primary.  Blame TGW, Tennessee Guerilla Women.  After the nomination, I tried to assure the other feminists, (of which I may have been the last surviving male,) that Hillary could just wait eight years and run again.  They were all so sad they couldn't see it.  But that's exactly what happened.  I was delighted when she was chosen for SOS and served tirelessly for four years as the most travelled and worked to death SOS of all time.  In my mind she was a Jefferson.  She always loved Eleanor Roosevelt.
So she bided her time for eight years, never wavering in her support for her colleague Barack Hussein Obama.  She set the bar high for a Secretary of State logging the most miles ever globe-trotted.  Tillerson has been pretty good.  I have said that before.  He's the one bright spot in the entire current disaster.  She was sixty-two years old when Obama was inaugurated.  She waited until she was seventy to run against any potential republican nominee. I would say that she is a decent and fine American who owes exactly nothing to Robert Kagan.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Mar 9, 2018 - 5:12am
I would say that she is a decent and fine American who owes exactly nothing to Robert Kagan
Wrong on both counts. You're entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong headed it is. 
No candidate for POTUS nor any victor of that office has been worth a shit during my lifetime.
Flying Junior Added Mar 9, 2018 - 5:29am
Not even JFK?  No wonder you left.  Happy beach time. 
La Jolla's getting pretty crowded.  That's the only shore that I know all of the meandering and more or less permanent rip tides.  I also used to dive just about every square inch and linear foot of tidal lands in my amphibious days.  The last couple of times I rode my bike to La Jolla Shores, I thought I had it made, until a lifeguard told me I was in the surfboards only zone.  I still take my family to the Marine Room to commune with the Leopard Sharks.  I know where to go, but it's a challenge.  Sometimes it involves dropping everybody off while I park a million miles away and ride my bike back to the beach.  The best time in recent memory was an unexpected womp break between Scripps and Black's.  I was with my old-time buddy.  He is a better surfer.  Maybe I was just lucky to catch so many good body-surfing rides.
A couple of years ago I was swimming around in Cardiff, just floating and breast-stroking a little bit, when I realized I was caught in a rip.  Very calmly, I spoke in a clear voice.  "Somebody help me."  A surfer saved my life.  He towed me in a couple of yards and I begged him, "Just bring me in, bro."  He replied, "It's pretty bad here right now."  And without further comment he towed me to standing distance from the water's edge.
But I still can take care of myself at Black's!  Call me the Womping King!
Gerrilea Added Mar 9, 2018 - 8:08am
Flying J--- Just so I'm clear, you love globalism and believe it's created unparalleled expansion worldwide that helped China, the US et al.
There isn't anything you can say to convince me of that canard.  It only helped the elite 1% and multi-nationals.  It's forced millions into perpetual poverty and destroyed the middle class in America.
Trump was keeping his campaign promises, how novel and one of his inside lackey's knew about the plan and divested assets....they've been doing that shit for decades. There is no law to stop Congressional or government employees at that level against "insider trading".
Nationalism vs globalism, I'll vote for nationalism every time.
opher goodwin Added Mar 9, 2018 - 8:43am
Ger - I think you'll find it was nationalism that stinks and has given rise to the multinationals. They can only be controlled through global laws. Runaway capitalism is a curse that is creating the crisis.
Gerrilea Added Mar 9, 2018 - 12:26pm
Opher G--I'd beg to differ on the idea that nationalism gave rise to multi-nationals.  No, our governments were stolen from us for through memes like: "trickle down theory" and "tax breaks for the wealthy will create jobs" and "regulations are destroying businesses".
Poppycock.  They made off with trillions and bought everyone in government then passed laws to insure profits in-perpetuity by enslaving the entire planet.
"Global Laws" are not what you think.  Here's a public talk on all those "free trade agreements" by David Malone, the Green Party in the UK hosted his "lecture", a couple years ago.
Take some time, listen, watch, learn and do it again. 
"The Death of Democracy"
George N Romey Added Mar 9, 2018 - 12:45pm
Globalization is forcing over population. People have moved from dire poverty to devastating poverty enabling more very poor infants to survive infancy. Of course at a few bucks a day their lives still suck. The winners? The Wall Street, C level, plutocrat crowd.
Jeff Michka Added Mar 9, 2018 - 1:01pm
The Sutrino cries: What happen to being the JOBS PRESIDENT  and making America Great Again?-According to one of your fellow rightists, everything the Orange Turd says is a joke.  He was just kidding.  You ought to write Angela Merkel for a Make Germany Great Again hat...MGGA, LOL.AND ol Geo R sez: People have moved from dire poverty to devastating poverty enabling more very poor infants to survive infancy.-Yeah, worry about infants!!! We need them to grow for a few years so they can die in a school shooting. Ah, the rightist "reverence for Life."
Jeff Michka Added Mar 9, 2018 - 1:03pm
'rilla sez: "trickle down theory" and "tax breaks for the wealthy will create jobs" and "regulations are destroying businesses".-Hey those are rightist construction right up there with your civil wars breaking out after each election cycle.
Flying Junior Added Mar 9, 2018 - 2:47pm
It looks like its a done deal for the protectionist crowd.  Look for the price of Harley-Davidsons to go up next.
Gerrilea Added Mar 9, 2018 - 5:02pm
Jeff M-- Does anyone take you seriously or "feed" you? 
Flying Junior Added Mar 9, 2018 - 8:43pm
Looks like I guessed correctly.  From USATODAY
Harley-Davidson has responded to the European Union’s threat to impose tariffs on Harley motorcycles, saying it could have a significant impact on sales and customers. 
European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker has identified Harley-Davidson bikes and Levi jeans as targets for “countermeasures” the EU has been preparing in retaliation for President Donald Trump's plan to place tariffs on foreign steel and aluminum.  
Trump has said he would impose a 25% tariff on steel imports and a 10% tariff on aluminum imports, a move welcomed by the U.S. steel industry but opposed by manufacturers of many products that have a high metal content.
Roughly 16% of Harley-Davidson’s sales are to Europe.
In a statement, Harley now says, “Import tariffs on steel and aluminum will drive up costs for all products made with these raw materials, regardless of their origin. Additionally, a punitive, retaliatory tariff on Harley-Davidson motorcycles in any market would have a significant impact on our sales, our dealers, their suppliers and our customers in those markets."
This wouldn’t be the first time that Milwaukee-based Harley-Davidson, the world’s largest manufacturer of heavyweight motorcycles, has faced tariffs in trade disputes. The EU threatened tariffs on its bikes in 2003 when President George W. Bush sought taxes on imported steel. 
In India, where big touring motorcycles and cars are saddled with a 100% import tariff, Harley's sales have grown by a brisk 30% in the past two years.
That's largely because the company has been able to get around the tariff by assembling bikes there, something it's done in that country since 2011.
I guess there is no consequence so devastating as to cause Trump supporters to ever break their goose-stepping march off of the cliff with the rest of the lemmings.
So far he has gone after the NFL and Harley-Davidsons and the crazy sycophants still respect him.  We'll see if he is man enough not to get pwned by Kim Jong-Il.  Kim could send a nuclear warhead to San Francisco and you guys would still love him.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Mar 9, 2018 - 9:58pm
Kim could send a nuclear warhead to San Francisco and you guys would still love him.
The loss of SF, CA wouldn't be that great a loss when one really thinks about it.
250% duty on Harley Davidson here. They just completed a huge temple to all things Harley (otherwise known as a dealership) in BKK and appear to be selling them like hotcakes. 
Pardero Added Mar 9, 2018 - 10:13pm
Flying Bill,
Harley could survive without any sales outside the US. It is a luxury status symbol and people that can afford one will still pay what it takes to get one. Inconsequential. Silly even.
It won't take long for this to be proven another sky is falling.
They are toothless bluffers. I suspect that Trump would be a good poker player. He doesn't even need to be with the full house he is holding. 
Trump is an iconoclast and he is going to shatter your heathen globalist god.
Whichever country is dumb enough to call first, is gonna get hammered and educated. Their chips will be in Trump's pile. The rest will shut their pieholes and deal with the new rules. The sky isn't falling. Hide and watch.
Leroy Added Mar 9, 2018 - 10:54pm
FJ, I'm not a big fan of tariffs, but I don't see why Europe would get its panties in a wad over steel and aluminum.  They can't be exporting enough of it to the US to matter.  If they slap a tax on H-D, Trump slaps one on cars imported from Europe.  Do you really think Europe would risk this?  I don't think so.  It would be wise to pick their battles, and this one isn't their battle.  Trump is holding all the cards.  The tariffs are aimed at China.  China deserves the punishment for its trade practices.  They are cheaters.
William Stockton Added Mar 9, 2018 - 11:43pm
Steel is the most important durable metal.  
Steel is better for cars in that it absorbs a crash more reliably.
But real bike people know that a lightweight steel frame is the best because of the way it flexes and bends.
This is, perhaps, the dumbest shit I have read this week. 
Congratulations FJ.  You have broken my personal goal to go two weeks without responding to dumbass comments on the internet.  I couldn't resist and by the way, didn't finish your article.  After your first two paragraphs with these statements, I decided to not waste my time with more idiocracy.
The only advantage steel has over aluminum is the price.  Fucking hell . . . it's not like we have to go to the library to learn these things anymore.  OMG
Flying Junior Added Mar 10, 2018 - 2:42am
To me a better question is do we wish to risk a trade war?  H-D was such an obvious example I thought of it and then looked it up afterwards.  If you read, (past tense,) the public statement put out by Harley-Davidson they said that tariffs on imported steel will raise the price for all steel and adversely affect their customers and dealerships.  How do they know this?  Everybody knows that motorcycle heads are liberals, right?  I would tend to trust what the people at H-D are saying.  There is a big Harley dealership in my canyon on Morena Boulevard.  No, it will not destroy this American icon, but this is the type of company that Trump will punish with his misguided ideas about world trade.
My thing is I don't give a hoot about trade imbalance.  We are the big dog.  We have all the money.  The only thing that an idiot like Trump can do is fuck it all up.  And I'm not seeing suffering in the U.S.  From where I am standing, all fifty states seem to be doing just fine, thank you.  I'm not willing to risk the dangerous presidency of the monster.  But all I can do is try to promote someone who can mitigate the greatest possible amount of damage in the hopefully near future.
Harley is an American Institution.  They are the finest in the world.  It is not just a luxury item for the pampered rich.  Humble men and women make it their goal to own one and cherish the beautiful machines.  What do you think that the state police in just about every state are riding, Ninjas?  I thought it would be a no-brainer to bring conservatives around by pointing out that the monster was attacking Harley-Davidson.  Like I said.  Lemmings off of a cliff.
Please do drop in to refute me from time to time.  It is a good match.  You are probably far better equipped than am I for political battle.  I like conservatives.  We're all Americans.  (I shouldn't say that on an international forum.)
But you are not a bicycle guy.  It's pretty easy to explain.  Aluminum bikes are quite cheap and incredibly lightweight.  But a real rider will tell you that they prefer lightweight steel tubing because it flexes.  Flexing is the name of the game for cycling.  That and a forward weight distribution such as found in the finest mid-century French and Italian bicycles.
I am not an expert on auto crash safety.  But my understanding is that intelligently built cars, from the Mercedes Benz 280SL, dubbed the Panzervagen by some, to a 1969 Cadillac Coupe DeVille, are classic examples of cars that are built to do well in a crash.  If you want to walk away from a serious crash, you surround yourself with three to five thousand pounds of steel, not the equivalent amount of aluminum.  My car has an aluminum hood, doors and tailgate.  The rest of the body panels are made of steel.
Good luck in a little Z-car with side airbags.
Pardero Added Mar 10, 2018 - 3:12am
Flying Bill,
Harley is an institution. Most bikers would switch sides over that. But I am a Billy Jack type. I do like bicycles. I have a 1980 Schwinn Cruiser with the positron derailleur. I put ape hangers on it  and Schwalbe Big Apples. Not chromoly, that crummy heavy tubing. One of my brothers gave me a vintage chromoly mtn bike. I did not need it. I got a Marin chromoly at a yard sale but turned it into a trekking bike. A trekking bike with balloon tires! How wacky is that? It needs a new rear hub at the moment. Jumping teeth inside. The gear cluster is fine. 
My usual bikes are alu. Boo. But I like them anyway. A mid priced Lombardo(hybrid?) It has big tires for a 700c not a 29er but a '28er'. and a low end Kettler trekking(but still German made). Both purchased at clearance prices. Nothing special. I am not a true bike fanatic or rich. 
Pardero Added Mar 10, 2018 - 3:18am
Flying Bill,
Back in the bad old days, all I had was a vintage Raleigh 3 speed from a yard sale. Then I got the Cruiser for 50 bucks(a fortune at the time) and gave the Raleigh away.
Flying Junior Added Mar 10, 2018 - 4:15am
Dad had a Phillips 3-speed that resembled a Raleigh.  The key was the Bendix shifter and hub.  You could operate the shifter on your handlebar with your thumb.  It was from 1964.  I got into Motobecanes in 1975.  I still have my 12-speed, but it is heavily customized.  My bike right now is a Pinarello from around 1990.  Of course, I put motorcycle handlebars.  I found a bike in a thrift shop that had a nice vintage saddle that I installed.
I bought a couple of Aluminum bikes made in China for my grandsons.  (In boxes from the factory.)  The kids are still too small.  I finally decided to have them built in time for Christmas 2019.  But I knew a good deal when I saw one.  For the red Motobecane, I will leave off the front Alpine sprocket and build it as a 16-speed.  The idea is to resemble my old 12-speed French Motobecane or my Pinarello as much as possible.  I bought motorcycle handlebars and friction shifters for it.  I kinda hate drop-down handlebars.  I will build the other one stock as a 24-speed.  Unfortunately it is yellow.  I'm hoping I can get it painted British Racing Green.
I am the original low-budget Bicycle Grandpa.  The kids will need new bikes in a couple of years.  I love road bikes.  I used to ride my Motobecane 12-speed to Oceanside or even Vista.  But the furthest I ever rode was 100 miles in one day.
My hope is to build my kids a couple of training bikes that they can ride until they are sixteen or seventeen years old.  Then, if they really want to, they can become mountain bikers or roadies.  I can't let them grow up bicycle illiterate.  I have two commemorative edition Zefal frame pumps to fit their Christmas presents.
Thomas Sutrina Added Mar 10, 2018 - 8:28am
Leroy Trump has a funny way of showing it >>Thomas, if anything, Trump is kowtowing to the voters of the swing states that put him in office.  The tariff, a tax the citizens pay, will slow the economy thus for every job the tariff creates two or more will be lost.   The net effect of all the products that will increase their price from higher cost of purchases and less sales will take all the money back and then some from the small part of the tax cut citizens received.
Leroy Added Mar 10, 2018 - 8:50am
"The only advantage steel has over aluminum is the price.  Fucking hell . . . it's not like we have to go to the library to learn these things anymore."
No offense, William, but that is a stupid statement.  The qualifier "only" gets you in trouble.  Anyway, FJ successfully refuted the statement and I have nothing to add but my agreement.
George N Romey Added Mar 10, 2018 - 8:55am
Motorcycles from what I’ve observed have become the play toy or rich baby boomers men trying to relive their days when they could get a “boner” in the wink of an eye.
Leroy Added Mar 10, 2018 - 9:01am
"My thing is I don't give a hoot about trade imbalance."
I don't either.  If a country or any retailer wants to sell me something at a discount, who am I to complain?  I don't buy the notion that it indebts us.  Having said that, China has an insane steel production capacity.  It can pollute the air beyond comprehension.  When it dumps steel on the market, no country can compete.  Jobs are lost.  National security is undermined as local production is shut down.  If they can make it cheaper using similar environment regulations, I wouldn't complain, but that is not the case.  It just isn't right for China to dump its products on the US while protecting its markets in other areas.  The government makes it exceeding difficult to do business in China.
William Stockton Added Mar 10, 2018 - 3:53pm
Leroy, No offense, William, but that is a stupid statement. 
No offense?  LOL  That is a really stupid qualifier, Leroy.  What.  Are you running for some political office?  
Anyway, FJ successfully refuted the statement and I have nothing to add but my agreement.
How?  Any serious cyclist will be using a carbon fiber frame.  FJ is just spouting bullshit.
Let's see what google says about this.  Gosh, Leroy, it only took like 15 seconds to type up this search:
Though aluminum and titanium have come down in price, steel is still the least expensive metal. But since most cyclists like the lighter weight of aluminum or carbon fiber, manufacturers are creating bikes that are aluminum or carbon fiber and more affordable.
However, Leroy, bicycle frames is not what was intended in FJ's article.  His article was about the "MORAL" implications the steel industry as steel is somehow a "MORAL" issue because steel is so much better than other metals.  WTF are you guys smoking?
Leroy Added Mar 10, 2018 - 8:29pm
Unfortunately, your comment was universal in natural and did not only refer to bikes; therefore, making it inaccurate.  And FJ's comment had to do with metals.  FYI, carbon fiber is not metal.  It not worth arguing over.
William Stockton Added Mar 10, 2018 - 10:39pm
Well, Leroy, you wanted to argue a few hours ago.  What's changed?
My use of the word "only" was in regards to FJ's claims, and I repeat them here for your edification:
Steel is the most important durable metal.  
Steel is better for cars in that it absorbs a crash more reliably.
But real bike people know that a lightweight steel frame is the best because of the way it flexes and bends.
All of his statements are false.  Yet you took one of my words out of context.  Ya.  Bullshit Leroy.  You very well intended to butt into a discussion for an argument.  Since I win (again), I understand you cucking out.  Now run along and mind your manners.
Flying Junior Added Mar 11, 2018 - 1:42am
I don't need googol to talk about bikes.  Kestrel bikes have the same problem as aluminum.  I never said they couldn't be competitive bikes.  I was thinking of getting a Kestrel myself.  But I'm not really young enough for it to be worthwhile.  I like my lightweight Pinarello just fine.  It feels like picking up a book.
Now mountain bikes...  That's a horse of a different color.  They have shock absorbers, for one thing.  Every ounce you take off of the weight is another three hundred dollars!
Flying Junior Added Mar 11, 2018 - 9:50am
Okay Riders,
Five real bicycle guys weigh in.  Consensus is that a lot of old guys still swear by their steel frame bikes.  But there are other factors that are just as important as frame material.  Interestingly, high-end mountain bikes are still made from all three basic materials.  There are also a couple of different steel alloys, such as titanium, that are popular in lightweight tubing.  It made me happy to see the Pinarello steel frame mountain bikes discussed in a similar forum.  I'm pretty sure the early Ritchey and Boulder mountain bikes were made of steel.
My Dad's old Rockhopper clunker that he gave me is somewhere in Africa thanks to the Mike's Bikes Foundation.
Thomas Sutrina Added Mar 11, 2018 - 11:33am
So Leroy your saying that Trump can place tariffs on Chinese steel if the price they set is aimed at taking over the industry, forcing competitors out of business.   Your saying that China regulations and government loans, gifts, etc. skew the market and a tariff is a means us returning the market to what would happen in a free trade market.    I totally agree that even if steel cost us a little bit more I accept this tax we pay to use Chinese steel.   The tactic of driving out competition by lowering price below the cost of manufacture for anyone in the business always is followed by raising the price once the competition is gone to a price that will more then recover the cost to drive out competition.   Thus a little higher price now overall is a savings.
Thomas Sutrina Added Mar 11, 2018 - 11:46am
Deficit trade balance means that foreign investors feel more comfortable with dollars then their own currency.  They feel more comfortable with taking that money and investing it in America then other places.   They will no let those dollars sit idle.  So the net effect is more jobs in the American economy due to the investment, GDP growth.
The above is an deficit trade balance of a free markets, the consumers, us humans.   Another type of deficit is from government purchases.  Now they may not be directly purchasing foreign goods but by consuming a large portion of domestic production they cause the price to rise for consumer goods from domestic producers.  Thus the consumers purchase more foreign goods.   
The above statement about where the foreigners invest is also skewed.  Government offers bonds, a type of investment, to pay for the goods with future revenue.  No jobs are created by foreigners or Americans purchasing debt IOUs.  The foreigners are purchasing future taxes put on the backs of Americans, that will reduce jobs, a detriment to the economy, drop in GDP.  
Jeff Michka Added Mar 11, 2018 - 2:07pm
Geo, Mr & Mrs Nostalgia, sez: Motorcycles from what I’ve observed have become the play toy or rich baby boomers men trying to relive their days when they could get a “boner” in the wink of an eye-Oh, gee...HD must be cycle of choice for "the deep state," huh?  I  doubt you have ever really ridden, just observed.  Motor cycles have just gotten expensive, so it must make them "rich people's toys," eh?  Rode a late 30s knucklehead commuting for 16 years, before having to lay it down getting sideswiped by a guy in a Mercedes that had his set of golf clubs propped up in the rear seat fall over, and he had to look to see what got damaged.  A broken hip, a lot of down time and insurance settlement left me with a bent frame ride that could never be successfully repaired.  I healed better.  I even rode again for a bit, but a couple of more close calls and having a daughter in the house made me give it up with a bit of regret I still have from time to time till these days.
Flying Junior Added Mar 11, 2018 - 3:25pm
Steel is the only metal that heavy duty truck frames will ever be made from.
Some kook left-turned in front of me, I got to enjoy the feeling of slamming on the brakes of my Bronco while I skidded straight into a PT Cruiser.  So I found a guy that would straighten my frame on a huge hydraulic machine for straightening steel frames.  $2,100 for some minor body work.  I drove that wagon for another entire year before I bought another truck.
It sold for $800 at auction with a home-made chocolate cherry Douglas Fir bumper.  Nice!
Leroy Added Mar 11, 2018 - 6:16pm
William, you and my four old son have a lot in common.  You both like to be Number One.  He whines when he is not.  He's right even when he is wrong. So, I know this will make you feel better: You're Number One!  No. Really.  I'm not just saying it.
George N Romey Added Mar 11, 2018 - 7:19pm
Anyone dumb enough to ride a Harley on our miserable roads.,,,,,
States like Florida give drivers licenses to people that no comphrendo English. It’s why a drive a 2005 Deville with 100,000 miles on it. It’s a tank.
Jeff Michka Added Mar 11, 2018 - 7:54pm
Geo R sez: Anyone dumb enough to ride a Harley on our miserable roads.-Figures that's the best you can do, eh, Geo? It’s why a drive a 2005 Deville with 100,000 miles on it. It’s a tank.-Poor taste and "all you can afford enter the mix?  I know how bad driving in FL is.  I know latinos are good to bash, but the real leamos down your way were white and old.   remember watching a woman in her probable 80s hit a bus head on driving into a left hand turn lane the wrong way around.  Brake lights never came on. 
Jeff Michka Added Mar 11, 2018 - 7:56pm
Got to amend thoughts on laying bike wasn't just getting side swiped, it was hitting a Jersey barrier that was really bad for the ride AND me...
Jeff Michka Added Mar 11, 2018 - 8:07pm
ARI sez: So good to see all the usual suspects implicitly stating that they wholly approve of the human rights abuses linked to working conditions and safety issues in nations such as India, Brazil, Turkey and Chin-Ask how many folks here use icrap?  Apple admits using slave labor to build phones and other stuff.  I got really trashed on another telecom list by bringing this ugly aspect of igarbage up, because slave labor in China and India was a "good thing," because despite being de facto slaves, they had some support (jobs), so were 'better off." hmmm.
Jeff Michka Added Mar 11, 2018 - 8:10pm
FJr sez: I guess there is no consequence so devastating as to cause Trump supporters to ever break their goose-stepping march off of the cliff with the rest of the lemmings.-Well said.
A. Jones Added Mar 12, 2018 - 12:22am
 Economist Larry Elders:
"In 2002, President George W. Bush imposed a 30 percent tax on steel imports. The result? The following year, the Heritage Foundation concluded: 'Domestically, the steel tariffs ... have hurt more workers than they have helped. That's because industries that use steel to manufacture other products such as auto parts, appliances and buildings produce more products and employ more people than the steel industry does. In fact, according to the Consuming Industries Trade Action Coalition ... for every employee in the steel-producing industry, 59 work in the steel-using industry. The tariffs increased prices in these industries, lowering demand. That's why the Institute for International Economics estimates that as many as 52,000 jobs have been lost in the steel-using industry since the tariffs were enacted.' The Peterson Institute for International Economics put the cost of one steel-making industry job saved at $400,000 — per job.
Henry George (a 19th century economist), said: 'In time of war, we blockade our enemies in order to prevent them from getting goods from us. In time of peace, we do to ourselves by tariffs what we do to our enemy in time of war.' Tariffs may be good politics, but they are bad economics."
Flying Junior Added Mar 12, 2018 - 1:33am
Thank you for commenting Mr. Jones.  I appreciate the information.
You are not alone among conservative voices calling for restraint from President Trump.  I recall Paul Ryan urging to president to hold off last week.  The potential costs appear to be fairly obvious just on face value.  Any time new policy disrupts a smoothly operating system of manufacturing and trade, many risks are incurred.  The hue and cry from economists and republican and democratic policy makers is a rare moment of nearly universal consensus.
Listening to an interviewee on NPR I believed to be the author or perhaps a co-author of this article from the Economist from March 2nd, simply titled, "President Donald Trump wants tariffs on steel and aluminum," I heard for the first time how in instituting this policy, in order to stay in compliance with our international accords as a member of the WTO,  Trump has invoked national security as the rationale for calling for tariffs.  This will bring suits from other member nations of the WHO and could inspire other countries to invoke similar national security exceptions.
John King Added Mar 12, 2018 - 11:25am
Icahn sold his Manitowoc stock at prices ranging from $32.47 to $34.31 from Feb. 12 to Feb. 22. The high was on January 26 at $43.59. So we are to believe that Trump waited until mid Feb to warn his good friend while Icahn, a notable trader, allowed his wonderful investment in this great company to fall nearly 25% and would have rode MTW to its current lows had he not been warned?
Then there's the fairy tale AKA Free Trade. According to the US Dept of Commerce & the St. Louis Fed, US consumers have reaped a whopping 5¢ for every dollar extracted from NAFTA et al by the real beneficiaries, foreign corporations, banks, financiers etc. We play the game but wage earners haven't had a raise in real terms for almost 25 years (BLS, Census Bureau). Trump sees this as a problem to correct and tariff threats are a great cudgel to entice a positive response from our competitors. Oh, and BTW, while some of our products are subjected to no or low tariffs, take some time to see how long it takes to get into China, Japan or the EU. They don't tax you, merely tie you up in red tape. It makes one want to see red. 
Flying Junior Added Mar 12, 2018 - 5:01pm
How does a cudgel entice? Try using one to get laid, caveman.  You are a true believer, sir.  I don't like the idea of holding a cudgel over Canada,  Trump is a very sick man.  It's like our country passed through a portal into a fantasy world of horror and dread coupled with fallacious thinking.  The Trump administration is acting out the darkest political doctrines of the far-right on the world stage with utter disregard for resulting consequences and deaths.  This maniacal demon is the POTUS?  How could we do this to ourselves?
But some of you guys like it that way.  We're almost great again.
Any day now...
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Mar 13, 2018 - 2:29pm
No candidate for POTUS nor any victor of that office has been worth a shit during my lifetime.
They weren't supposed to. They are actors with too much power. On one hand they do what the corps tell them, on the other hand they got the red button.
At some stage that can create a conflict....when one of them once happens to have a brain and empathy, but this is unlikely, since they are selected by the corps...
Stone-Eater Friedli Added Mar 13, 2018 - 2:30pm
How could we do this to ourselves?
The answer lies in the big 6 and the couch potato.
John King Added Mar 13, 2018 - 5:52pm
Dear Mr. Friedli:
I don't know how long you've been on the planet, but I recall Truman, Ike, JFK and so on. Truman was pretty good as was Ike, from there we got Kennedy, a first class shit & worse, his even shittier brother joined him. Johnson was the worst kind of crook & liar who wasn't ever going to send our boys to Viet Nam. Then we got Nixon the Paranoid, Ford the amiable dope, Carter the anal coward & finally Reagan. Ron was my last hope we'd see a change in DC but he trusted the Dems and got stiffed on the budget. The Bushes were (are) in the pockets of the big Corps, as was Clinton, then Obozo. All promised to stop the wars yet we have found ourselves in perpetual war since Viet Nam. The only thing I hope Trump is able to do is take a wrecking ball to the DC/Corp political establishment. Don't care about his ego, tweeting etc, because I believe he is doing most of it on purpose to piss them of and distract their attention. I don't expect him to succeed but maybe he can crack the foundations a bit. Meanwhile I get a real kick at the almost universal condemnation of his reign from the elites. He has them really worried. They all seem to think he will fail & blow up the country as if it's been so great for the past 70 years or so. I read a George Patton quote where he was talking to his staff who all agreed on the same battle plan: "when everyone thinks the same thing, someone's not thinking. Good luck to you and thanks for the comment.

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