How Old is the Earth?

How Old is the Earth?
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How old is the Earth? Most people and virtually all scientists say that it is 4.5 billion years old, but some still claim that the Earth is just 10,000 years old, and even more incredible some actually claim it is half that age!

 

People that make such outrageous arguments that I have encountered ignore all physical sciences which easily debunks said arguments. One of the more humorous arguments is the moon dust young earth argument which says that the moon should be covered in about 100 feet of interstellar dust. But it has been known since the 1960's that this is false because the moon only receives one percent of the interstellar dust creationists claimed because of the solar wind from our sun deflects most of it.
(Young Earth Argument: Moon Dust - http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creation/moondust.html )

 

Additionally of course there is the problem with the fact that human made structures have been found older than the young earth theories (archeological finds in Europe date back 14,000 years for instance) and carbon dating confirms the vast age of the earth. Additionally light from stars billions of years away reaches the world which wouldn't be possible if the universe was as young as some say.

 

Finally the existence of dinosaurs in the same time period as primitive humans would have obviously resulted in human extinction. Even today humans would face a serious threat if fast, intelligent, and ferocious dinosaurs like the T-Rex or velsorapter suddenly appeared, even with the weapons of today it would be a serious challenge. With rocks and sticks humans wouldn't stand a chance against titan superpredators like the spinosauros egyptis which roamed Africa and the Middle East where early (Biblical) humanity thrived. Clearly they existed in the far past tens of millions of years before humans, and the earth is billions of years old.

Comments

James Travil Added Mar 18, 2018 - 9:49pm
I got into a ridiculous debate with a very rude individual about this topic here on Writer’s Beat. Being that I couldn't get a fair debate (due to the endless Ad Hominem garbage, slanders, and being misquoted) I wrote my argument here as an article for future reference for all. Comments and thoughts on the subject matter are welcome.
Pardero Added Mar 18, 2018 - 10:24pm
James Travil,
If you will forgive a bit of a tangent, I read something a couple of years ago that I'd like to share. I cannot find my way back to the article.
A pair of archaeologists dated a musical instrument and some metal jewelry to over 100,000 years ago. The workmanship equaled the finest creations of the Hallstatt Culture. The flute is the oldest known musical instrument ever found( which is what I will use to re-find the article) The significance is that such high quality requires a society to have a division of labor and a heirarchy to sustain that kind of tradition of craftsmanship i.e. civilization. They proposed a radical theory that civilization began near the find in Bavaria and dispersed to Asia Minor. I have seen no more about it but discoveries are still changing our understanding of history.
Pardero Added Mar 18, 2018 - 10:27pm
Oops. 40 to 45, 000 years ago.
James Travil Added Mar 18, 2018 - 11:07pm
Thanks for the input Pardero, and yes that is another great point. Perhaps the original proponent of this young earth idea (his name is Joe BTW) will join us for a rational discussion on this topic. I did invite him to do so, I guess we will see. It's amazing to me that people still believe such outlandish stuff. From what I understand few religious people even still hold to such theories, but then again there is still a flat earth society so I guess anything goes.
David Montaigne Added Mar 18, 2018 - 11:11pm
Much like the word "gay" used to mean "happy" and the word "terriffic" used to mean "terrifying" - the phrase "the earth" did not, in ancient times, refer to our planet as we use the term today.  It meant the current surface orientation of the planet.  This changes radically over time.
 
The universe is perhaps 15 billion years old.  Our planet is about 4.5 billion years old.  But the current surface orientation of our planet was radically changed almost 13,000 years ago.  So when the Bible suggests "the earth" is just thousands of years old - the writers meant the current surface orientation.  2 Peter 3:7 contrasts "the world at that time" which was destroyed, with the future destruction of "the present heavens and earth."  The Book of Revelation describes the coming of "a new heavens and a new earth" after mountains and islands move from their places and the sky rolls up like a scroll and stars fall below the horizon because the Bible is describing a POLE SHIFT.  Just imagine how different the night sky would look, and how different the world would look to survivors, if your latitude suddenly changed even 30 degrees.
 
In my upcoming book on POLE SHIFTS, one of my basic conclusions is that Ice Ages happen when a region is at one of the poles - there was an ice age in North America that ended around 12,900 years ago because the North Pole was in western Hudson Bay before it suddenly moved to its present position.  If you haven't thought about pole shifts much before, ask yourself why the last ice sheet was centered on Hudson Bay, and went down to the mid-United States, while Siberia was warm and full of herds of animals - some of which ate 500 pounds of vegetation per day.  Why wasn't the ice sheet centered on the North Pole?  It was - on the former North Pole.

It's pretty simple to explain how the islands north of Russia, now at 72 degrees latitude - had fruit trees and mammoth herds while the future site of New York City was under a mile of ice - the North Pole was in Hudson Bay.  North America had an ice age because it was at the North Pole.  Antarctica has an ice age now because it is at the South Pole - but evidence shows it was habitable not that long ago.  Pole shifts, geophysical pole shifts with the crust moving over the core of the planet, relocating everyone - everywhere - simultaneously bringing every land to a new latitude and longitude (and altitude) - has destroyed civilization with massive natural disasters before and will do so again.
 
Our planet is billions of years old.  "The earth" - as the ancients used the term - the current surface orientation of our planet - is less than 13,000 years old.  If you're interested in all the evidence I've put together, my book should be out within a few months.
David Montaigne Added Mar 18, 2018 - 11:14pm
The image I had in my comment above didn't take. It may help to look at the map of the North American Ice Sheet here: North American "Ice Age"
Pardero Added Mar 18, 2018 - 11:55pm
James Travil,
I notice that David has a theory that seems logical, and is also compatible with Scripture. 
Without taking a side, it seems to me that those who take Scriptural dates at face value must deny science. Those who take the dates as allegory, seem to have a better time reconciling the two. Many believe that we cannot know how long a day is to the Creator. Maybe entire epochs and so forth. I am comfortable with that approach.
I can see how such a discussion could get out of hand in a hurry. 
Just as many Amish become Mennonites so that they can drive, I believe that some must find a way to embrace facts along with their faith. I would rather they believed the short history of the world than throw away everything because they cannot reconcile the two.
I believe that the New Testament is compatible with science and learning. The Pentateuch must be considered by the times and the audience of the day. My interests in antiquity caused me concern about the dates when I was still a child. Many far more wiser than I do not see any incompatibility. 
Do dinosaurs or homo erectus prove Scriptures are false? Not at all. If one must deny either, then I see a problem. The pursuit of truth and knowledge must surely be good to the Creator that I contemplate.
Gerrilea Added Mar 19, 2018 - 1:32am
James T--- The question becomes, who benefits from such nonsense? Claiming the Earth is less than 10,000 yrs old ignores sooo much evidence that has been compiled. 
 
David M has a nice theory, but I'd ask for an explanation of the Sumerians.
 
Their "flood" mythology is repeated in the Jewish Talmud and reflected in our scripture we call the "old testament" written by Moses. Sadly, the Sumerian epic of Gilgamesh predates Noah's story by thousands of years.
 
Maybe his new book will shed some light on the forbidden archaeology  "modern" historians ignore and deny.
 
James, I do believe humans existed at the same time as dinosaurs, or very closely. 
 
 
James Travil Added Mar 19, 2018 - 1:59am
All, full disclosure, I am a atheist and see no reason to take anything Biblical seriously as it has been shown to be false as a historical reference many times by many resources. That said I'm open to looking into David's book once available. But to anyone who suggests humans and dinosaurs coexistence clearly you are insane unless you believe ancient humans possessed modern weapons. Otherwise please don't embarrass yourself. It's beyond stupid and makes you look ridiculous in the extreme. Like ants fighting a boot. For example there is evidence that humans halted colonization of South America 12,000 years old because of the terror birds there at the time  Now imagine things 1000 times more fearsome globally. With primitive weapons as the only defence  Clearly humans would be no more unless one is suggesting magic or the like. Please! 
Gerrilea Added Mar 19, 2018 - 2:29am
OH James, shame on you...You claimed you wanted open debate, now you employ ad homimens when confronted with an opposing view point?
 
Whilst I was raised Irish Catholic and accepted those "teachings" as valid, I evolved...not into an atheist... but an agnostic theist.
 
Say what???  It's very simple, the universe does not need a beginning or end, to exist.  It does not need "someone or something" to have "created" it. The universe could just "be".
 
LIFE, on the other hand, is so rare and impossible the "random" chance that it just "popped" into existence" is hogwash. Oh wait, "evolved" out of nothing is pure fantasy and poppycock.
 
Llyod Pye has some interesting theories.  The Cambrian explosion of life on this planet is impossible without intervention.
 
I'll give you a rock, all the chemicals you want AND 4 billion years to turn those things into life AS we know it...DNA and all.
 
Get back to me when you're finished.
James Travil Added Mar 19, 2018 - 2:50am





 
















And get back to me when you can explain how towering superpredators like the ones I mentioned can be brought down with sticks and stones. No Ad Hominem anything just pure hard reality which you clearly don't want to deal with. As I said before like ants challenging a boot.




 






Gerrilea Added Mar 19, 2018 - 3:52am
James, all I can see is gray around your posting.  Was that intentional or am I missing something.
 
"Super-predators"???  "Ants and a boot"???  You are truly being one dimensional and forgot what you posted, already.  Didn't you say something about people not moving into S.America because of huge birds???  Ugh...  ROFL.
 
So, I'm to believe that migration to S. America discontinued because there were "super-predators" there but this has no relation to huge or carnivorous species existing in other areas or other continents where hominids DIDN'T live???
 
Maybe they didn't live there because the dinosaurs were there?  IS that even remotely possible???
 
"Sticks and stones"---Doesn't that take the cake?  Note my sarcasm.
 
Humans obviously could fly, thousands of years ago.  Wait the Nazca lines just evolved and are "normal geologic formations".
 
Puma Punku, awe shit, just another "natural geological formation".
 
The archeological site at Baalbek, humans used "sticks and stones" to create those colossal structures....until you realize the biggest stone modern humans have moved is a mere 350 tonnes VERSUS the 2,000 tonne stones at Baalbek.
 
The Klerksdorp spheres are 2.8 BILLION years old.  WAIT, that would mean they predate "human evolutionary theories".
 
Wait, wait...The London Hammer...it's more than 400 million years old and most assuredly was put there by..."creationists", maybe???
 
Ugh, I accept that all things cannot be known.  Such as the origin of life on this planet.  I accept that my understandings must be tempered & molded by EVIDENCE.
 
Let the evidence lead us to the truth.
 
So far, all you've presented is an opinion that ignores the evidence to favor your position.
 
Our history is far richer than mere "sticks and stones" and spans millions of years not just a few hundred thousand as many are mislead into believing.
 
 
James Travil Added Mar 19, 2018 - 4:01am
I see you are promoting alien conspiracy theories, fine, please provide the proof of your claims. Simple as that. You previously claimed that simply stating that powerful predator dinosaurs outmatching primitive humans with stone age weapons was a "Ad Hominem attack" (seriously?) now in lieu of magic or time traveling future tec you suggest aliens really?!?! OK, fine. Just please provide us with the proof. Or is that request a "Ad Hominem attack"?
Flying Junior Added Mar 19, 2018 - 4:05am
James,
 
You may remember I top-commented on Joe Chiang's article.  I approached the problem from the position that if the earth was only 5,000 years old, we must have learned a helluva lot of stuff in the first thousand years or so.  I agree with Pardero.  There were ancient cultures that had wonderfully advanced cultures.  I don't know of these artifacts or which he speaks, but if he is correct, the concept of advanced culture and division of labor is compelling.
 
We do know for a fact about the division of labor in ancient Egypt.  There was a merchant class, an artisan class, scholars, builders, agriculturists, et cetera.  It might have been the first society to actually have a middle class!
 
But, since this post was inspired by your exchange with Joe, I hope you don't mind if I quote one of your comments.
 
Horseshit, the Bible is pure fiction! No real historians take it seriously, only wackjobs. There is not a shred of archeological evidence of Jesus or a historical ancient Israel or of any of the Biblical Patriarchy. There is as much evidence of a historical Hercules, none!

 
I'm going to have to take exception to that comment.  If for no other reason, the Old Testament is an important historical record of ancient Egypt, Babylonia, Mesopotamia and Jerusalem.  It has always been accepted that the life of Jesus was documented peripherally by the Roman historian Josephus, but unless we still possess actual Roman scrolls, I am not sure that we cannot allow that perhaps the English historians changed the original historical records of Josephus.
Flying Junior Added Mar 19, 2018 - 4:10am
The historical record is the Bible itself.  I don't know of any scholar who would deny the existence of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  The records kept by the Hebrews of Egypt were certainly much easier to read than the historical record from Egypt herself.  Abraham lived in Ur, basically Mesopotamia at the Tigris and Euphrates rivers that flow through present day Iraq and Syria.  He left his homeland to travel to Jerusalem.
 
Jerusalem is probably the oldest known city by its archaeological record.  I don't really know if Rome is older or not.  We're talking fairly deep time for the human record.  Jerusalem has been a walled city since the time of King David.  Evidence of various walls of Jerusalem dating back as far as 3,500 years ago have been unearthed.  There is also archeological evidence of many of the places portrayed in the Bible, both the O.T. and the N.T.  I'm not going to waste my time listing them for you.  It is a matter of record.  Archaelogists from Germany, Britain and the U.S. made extensive excavations around Jerusalem, the burial sites of ancient Jerusalem and of course, Egypt and the Valley of the Kings.  Between the early nineteenth century and at the least the mid-twentieth century, these excavations sought to prove the Biblical record with archaeological evidence.
 
Much of the historical record of the Bible has been substantiated through these efforts.  If you have ever visited the British Museum or even looked at the photographs in Janson's History of Art you will know about the ancient statues in bas-relief of Assyria,  The treasure trove of knowledge that came from excavating ancient Jerusalem is less tangible.  But many sites of the old Bible stories are believed to have been found.  If they are not the actual sites of the Pool at Bethesda or Jacob's Well in Samaria, they are at the least similar geographical features.  Many of these sites have been preserved and are visited by pilgrims each year.
 
No historian would deny the existence of men like King David, Solomon, Nathan, Samuel, Jeremiah, Isaiah or very likely any of the other prophets of the O.T.
 
Ancient scrolls of the Old Testament book of Isaiah were actually found in a scriptorium perfectly preserved dating back to the Essene sect of Hebrews before the time of Christ.
 
Deny the divinity of Christ.  You will not get any argument from me.  But the historical character of the Bible are every bit as real as your or I.
James Travil Added Mar 19, 2018 - 4:13am
Flying Junior, nope wrong, www.nobeliefs.com, as the MCP said in Tron, end of line.
James Travil Added Mar 19, 2018 - 4:16am
As much evidence of a historical Hurcules exists as a historical jesus. Flying Junior the website I provided debunks all of your ridiculous claims otherwise. Please cease with your historical revisionist bullshit. 
James Travil Added Mar 19, 2018 - 4:20am
James Travil Added Mar 19, 2018 - 4:21am
Sorry for your delusional crazy Flying Junior but that is all it is. 
Flying Junior Added Mar 19, 2018 - 4:23am
James,
 
I gave you that the record of Jesus by the Roman historian Josephus may have been altered over the centuries.
 
I was talking about the archaeological records of various events in the Bible.  If you don't want to believe that there ever was a King David, that's your business.  You will not convince me.
 
Obviously you only glanced at my comment.
 
BTW,
 
My primary source for the archaeological record was the Thompson Bible Archaeological Supplement.  But I get that you are not willing to consider any information beyond your silly website.
 
Plain and simple.  You are uneducated in this respect.  I thought you might have a more open mind.  I am not proselytising.  I do not have a religious agenda.
James Travil Added Mar 19, 2018 - 4:28am
Obviously you did not read www.nobeliefs.com because it debunks all your bullshit. If you have anything to challenge the information provided please present it  Or just look like the fool you are. Peace. 
Flying Junior Added Mar 19, 2018 - 4:29am
lol
 
fuck off
James Travil Added Mar 19, 2018 - 4:32am
How evolved and intelligent of you. Thanks for proving my point.
 
You lose.... 
Gerrilea Added Mar 19, 2018 - 4:59am
James, have you reviewed your own link???
 
Common Logical Fallacies
 
Maybe you should...then we might take you seriously.
 
James Travil Added Mar 19, 2018 - 5:10am
Where? Maybe where I have repeatedly asked you to explain how superpredators could be defeated by primitive stone age man and you called the question a Ad Hominem attack? Maybe how a tank like dinosaur facing a flea like essentially defenceless primitive stone age defence is like Godzilla fighting a gnat, and my asking you to explain how such is anything but crazy is an insult? Please do explain, inquiring audiences want to know... 
Gerrilea Added Mar 19, 2018 - 5:10am
James, are you deleting the posting above? Are you that afraid of rational discussion that you have to erase it from history?
 
If so, let me know, I won't waste my time.
 
 
 
Gerrilea Added Mar 19, 2018 - 5:11am

ames, what a trip....   The ad hominem was you calling anyone who believed other than as you have dictated,



     "...clearly you are insane..." and
     "... It's beyond stupid and makes you look ridiculous
     in the extreme..."



Hon, those ARE personal attacks.



Now you add in false comparisons to further your position.  "alien conspiracy theories".  Where did I say "alien" anything???



HUMAN history is more than mere "sticks and stones".  Provide valid scientific explanations for the Nazca lines, Puma Punku, Baalbek or the other various archeological finds that I politely provided links to.



CLEARLY there was far more advanced technology thousands and millions of years ago than we have even today...BEYOND...your "sticks and stones" theory.



There's only a couple rational explanations: 



1--We humans are far older than "modern" science claims.
2--We are not the only sentient species to evolve on this planet. 



There can't be "aliens", like from galaxies far away, because we KNOW that faster than light travel is impossible.  The only thing within reach, as our science can fathom, is "dimensional movement", as in, wormholes... BUT... the energy required is beyond our own Sun's output and therefore, impossible as well.



Leaving us with the two rational options above.  And since I am human, I favor the idea that we had advanced technology thousands and/or millions of years ago and who knows, maybe something happened, like an asteroid hit...pushing us back into a "dark age"...only to eventually rediscover "science" once again.



Your "clever" show me proof, is absurd when the evidence has already been provided.
 
Gerrilea Added Mar 19, 2018 - 5:13am

James,  I gave you my answer, not once but twice and you keep deleting them...

 
Hummm....maybe you like talking to yourself.
 
James Travil Added Mar 19, 2018 - 5:18am
First off I haven't deleted anything. Secondly calling what is nuts as nuts isn't an attack as I already pointed out. Third faster than light speed travel is not impossible according to NASA, apparently you like to comment on topics you have no information about. Finally I suggested aliens to give you an out because without such your theories are just nuts. Prove me wrong. And saying that you have done so when you obviously have not is not proving anything.
Doug Plumb Added Mar 19, 2018 - 5:21am
re "I notice that David has a theory that seems logical, and is also compatible with Scripture. 
Without taking a side, it seems to me that those who take Scriptural dates at face value must deny science."
 
Faith in scientists is not equivalent to adopting a scientific viewpoint. In fact it is the opposite, especially in the face of establishment scientists lying all the time, or staying silent while journalists and commentators misquote them on AGW.
Full disclosure: I don't believe liars, people who habitually lie and people who are well paid to do it.
Also Christianity is articles of faith, not science.
Communism has the basic requirement that you cannot believe in anything or believe anyone but scientists. Scientists form a new priesthood and are not to be questioned.
James Travil Added Mar 19, 2018 - 5:27am
Doug thanks for again proving that Christianity is entirely based on magic anti-science anti-reason and overall cannot be trusted. I knew you would not let me down. 
Doug Plumb Added Mar 19, 2018 - 5:55am
No. You just cannot understand it, that's all. Its not "anti science". It teaches you to be skeptical of any man, particularly of clerics, and scientists are the new clerics.
opher goodwin Added Mar 19, 2018 - 6:14am
James - it always amazes me how simple some people are. They would rather believe in their own crackpot ideas and archaic books of dubious origin rather than the work of science. The put superstition over research. Now all experts are fake instruments of the empire sent to befuddle us with fake news. Conspiracy theories are thought to be more credible than scientific research.
Evolution is rubbish.
Climate change is rubbish.
The Earth is only 6000 years old.
God deliberately puts fossils into rock strata.
Eve was made out of a rib.
There are conspiracy theories on Kennedy, moon landings, 9/11 and Marilyn Monroe. 
TV evangelists are multimillionaires.
They believe the words of Trump.
Good heavens. No wonder the USA is declining. I blame it on bad education and crazy indoctrination.
Flying Junior Added Mar 19, 2018 - 6:16am
There is a historical record to be found in the Bible.  Anyone who would deny this is simply ignorant of history.
Gerrilea Added Mar 19, 2018 - 6:17am
James, your "profile" claims you're a Satanist and a grotto master...but in the postings here you claim your an atheist?
 
Did you mean to say you're "anti-" Christian??? That would be logical but you cannot be an atheist who worships Satan...just saying. 
 
Provide a link to where NASA says we can travel faster than light or where FTL travel is possible.  In any event, that's immaterial to the points made.  WE do not have the capabilities of speeds even close to that.
 
Yes, dearie I do know a thing or two about current particle physics and theories on how we humans could move out among the stars
 
That said:
 
I provided you with archeological evidence that predates "modern" evolutionary theories that claim man is less than 300,000 yrs old and only had "sticks and stones" to survive with.  EVIDENCE that dates back millions and BILLIONS of years.  Hell the Nazca lines are estimated to be over 10,000 year old.  A time when "humans" only had your "sticks and stones"...how the hell did they create those geoglyphs?  How'd they move 2,000 tonne stones when modern man today couldn't do it?
 
I've given you rational explanations on how these things can exist.  So far you've added nothing to the discussion/debate.
 
Shall I repeat?
 
1- Humans are far older than modern "science" claims.
2- We are not the only sentient species to evolve on this planet.
3- You admit that humans stopped emigrating to South America because of large birds of prey.
4- We know dinosaurs existed millions of years ago and we have evidence that a technologically advanced civilization existed millions of years ago as well.
5- It's logical to assume we existed when dinosaurs were around and we avoided them just like YOUR example with South America.
6-Maybe there was an asteroid that hit the planet and threw us into a "dark age" where we had to evolve once again to "rediscover" science.
7-Maybe asteroids hit us more than once. We know of at least 5 times throughout geological history of mass extinction events.
 
 
See, no "aliens" needed, just stubborn humans not willing to just die off already.
 
 
Gerrilea Added Mar 19, 2018 - 6:21am
Doug P-- Amen brother...oh wait...you said "science" is the new clerics.
 
Dang it....you are so right.  We must guard against replacing one "religion" with another.  We're seeing examples of it already as they use "medicine" as a weapon.  Alex Jones calls it "medical tyranny" and he's spot on. 
 
Gerrilea Added Mar 19, 2018 - 6:41am
Flying J-- Agreed.  It seems this James character is unwilling to concede scientific evidence.  You did say that you believed Jerusalem was the oldest city, settlement.  I can't agree with that. There is irrefutable evidence that the Jewish people lived in that area for thousands of years, end of story.  The Talmud and the books of Moses, what we call "the old testament", is a history book as recorded by the Jewish people.  This doesn't include the history of the Chinese or the events in North and South America...just in that area of the planet.
 
What you must concede yourself is the Sumerian epic of Gilgamesh.  Same "Noah" story as in the Bible but it predates the Bible by thousands of years.  It's clear that various civilizations worldwide recorded similar events around the same time.  Can we know for sure exactly what year or century...no.  But we can get pretty dang close.
Gerrilea Added Mar 19, 2018 - 6:56am
James---climate change is rubbish...Finally your journey to the darkside is complete...welcome... HEHEHEHEHEhhehee.
 
Here let me educate you on some real scientific facts regarding the alleged "climate change".  Yes, our climate changes.  It stabilizes for brief periods of time that can span millions of years.  How do you think those dang dinosaurs evolved to get so big?  A warmer, stable climate.  How'd we get 40 foot ferns?  A warmer, stable climate.
 
Then guess what? Something happened, like the Maunder Minimum.
 
The orbital path our planet takes changes, causing "climate change".
 
Ugh...maybe someday you'll deprogram yourself and start to see what is becoming the majority of us...see.
 
Propaganda, lies and perpetual slavery to the Almighty State as our new lord and savior, Inc and copyrighted.
 
Stone-Eater Added Mar 19, 2018 - 8:32am
About 4 and some billion years. Otherwise would the slow mental (evolutional) development of us humans not be explicable...
Mustafa Kemal Added Mar 19, 2018 - 10:05am
All, Gerrilea has pointed to the book 
Forbidden Archeaology by Cremo and Thompson.
 
Although this book does not bear directly on this discussion, in a large sense it goes further in that it debunks the standard narrative on the age of man. It is filled with historical data and reasonable argument,IMO. And some of the data is quite fascinating and some of the possible revisions of timelines appear quite dramatic, to the longer end.
 
But the most interest thing I found in the book was the livid response towards those people who brought these scientific discoveries into discussion. The   severe oppression, loss of employment, destruction of the historical record, etc. 
Doug Plumb Added Mar 19, 2018 - 10:23am
re "The   severe oppression, loss of employment, destruction of the historical record, etc. "
 
Same goes for evolution, AGW, speaking against phoney inside jobs - essentially questioning anything that Opher believes. If you cannot question it then truth is being hidden. Truth has no fear of the light.
Pardero Added Mar 19, 2018 - 10:27am
Doug Plumb,
I had hoped that my statements were nuanced. I enjoy learning about ancient history but scientists are not my priests. I am not an enemy of faith.
Pardero Added Mar 19, 2018 - 10:50am
James Travil,
I am pressed for time. Not being a busybody but recommend deleting any ugly comments by all. Sometimes things get written that are regretted the next morning. 
opher goodwin Added Mar 19, 2018 - 11:52am
FJ - I think if I was interested in history the last place I'd look to fill that gap is the bible. A work of fiction has interesting poems and stories but is short on facts.
Gerrilea Added Mar 19, 2018 - 12:33pm
Mustafa K-- I haven't read their books but have been following the archeological finds for years, researching them here and there and understanding we are far older than "modern" science claims.
 
Today's "archeology" is written DOGMA & SCRIPTURE all must praise and accept, without question.  But that's been the case for anything "scientific" over the past 200 yrs anyways.  If you don't spout exactly what you were trained, you're a CT theorist, a Holocaust Denier or whatever.
 
 
Even A Broken Clock Added Mar 19, 2018 - 1:32pm
I was out for a couple of days and hadn't read this post or the comment. As always happens when scientific topics are brought up, those who couldn't understand C14 dating if it bit them, come out of the woodwork and defend religious allegory as inviolate truth. No one ever comes out of discussions like this learning anything significant.
 
BTW, for those who like their flood mythology centering around Asia Minor, are you familiar with the theory that there was a sudden inflow of water into the Black Sea about 5600 BC? And that the flooded villages that have been found underneath the surface of the Black Sea were the true origins of the flood stories found in many of the early civilizations in this region?
Mustafa Kemal Added Mar 19, 2018 - 1:57pm
Gerrilea, once you go down that rabbit hole you are never the same.
 
My brother studies Gaelic and performs for a drum and fife group. He has since discovered a connection between Irish music and middle eastern music.  I wont belabor it except to mention that  I tuned into a radio station that was playing some turkish music, and between two turkish tunes, they played an Irish fiddle tune.   It fit nicely
John Minehan Added Mar 19, 2018 - 2:05pm
Of course humanity co-existed with dinosaurs, it does to this day. 
 
Those song birds you heard this morning; those seagulls you saw at the beach last July; your aunt's beloved canary; and those penguins you see in the movies are all part of Dinosauria.
 
That crow that flies into the side of your house and walks around like, "What are you looking at?"  His 2d Cousin (innumerably times removed) was the T-Rex.
 
The Theropods are an old family; they used to be big. 
Stone-Eater Added Mar 19, 2018 - 2:41pm
Of course humanity co-existed with dinosaurs, it does to this day. 
 
Hm......so that means that Homo Sapiens existed 200 million years ago. Hm again. As far as we know, Australopithecus existed about 4 million years ago....
John Minehan Added Mar 19, 2018 - 2:55pm
Your argument about mega fauna is interesting.
 
Since I agree that anatomically man did not exist at the same time as non-Avian Dinosaurs, I don't think there is any direct evidence to be considered.
 
However, there is indirect evidence in the fossil record.
 
At the time that anatomically modern humans entered Australia about 65 to 70 thousand years ago, two of the alpha predators were Megalania, a 15-23 foot monitor lizard  somewhat like a larger Komodo Dragon, and Quinkana, a terrestrial crocodile of about 20 feet in length. 
 
Additionally,  Australia  was home to  Meiolania, an 8.2 foot, herbivorous, horned turtle.
 
These species are commonly thought to have become extinct due to human activity.        
John Minehan Added Mar 19, 2018 - 2:57pm
"Hm......so that means that Homo Sapiens existed 200 million years ago. Hm again. As far as we know, Australopithecus existed about 4 million years ago...."
 
And birds, Therapods, Avian-Dinosaurs, exits to this day. 
John Minehan Added Mar 19, 2018 - 2:59pm
"Exist" not "exists."  Sorry.
Ian Thorpe Added Mar 19, 2018 - 3:06pm
Pardero, I came to this thread late but I liked your comment about the ancient flute. There have been many finds, in Europe, the middle east, Indian sub - continent and China that should make us question the 'academic consensus' on ancient history, but as Mustafa Kemal notes, to challenge the orthodxy in the spirit of scientific inquiry can lead to professional embarrassment and even ostracism.
Stone-Eater Added Mar 19, 2018 - 3:09pm
John
 
Sure, in another form as the dinos. But humans also were apes, and before even smaller mammals. Dinos became birds, and mouse became humans. The problem is that most people don't imagine the immense time span it needed for evolution. I understand that. We live up to about 90 years in general. How can we imagine 4'000'000'000 years ? That's why evangelists talk about 5'000 years regarding humans, Adam and Eve and such stuff....
 
https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evograms_07
 
Of course that don't correspond with religion, but that's also not what I intend ;-)
Pardero Added Mar 19, 2018 - 3:18pm
Ian Thorpe,
Thank you.
You are wise to remind me of "orthodoxy" in scientific circles. I am as guilty as any, of wearing my rose-colored glasses too often.
 
Ian Thorpe Added Mar 19, 2018 - 3:31pm
James Travil, as I mentioned I joined the thread late so read the main article then the top and bottom of the thread. But I did notice when scrolling down there were people citing The Bible as a historical document.
I've always found grounds to question big bang theory, but can find no reason to doubt our planet is several billion years old. "Nothing existed then there was a pop and everything existed inside a radiation bubble that has been expanding ever since," sounds to me like a creation myth.
That said, I always think people who raise the topic in open forums are brave, given the certainty that the comment thread will  desenct into absurdity as people pile in to tell us the folk tales of a tribe of illiterate, bronze age, semi nomadic goat molesters (yes, it's in The Dead Sea Scrools,) is a history of human civilisation.
Dino Manalis Added Mar 19, 2018 - 4:11pm
The Earth is very old and still evolving!
Doug Plumb Added Mar 19, 2018 - 4:44pm
Ian, it always starts from nothing and goes to something. Physicists just use energy that came from...??? Christians adopt a matter of faith that is in line with rational law.
James Travil Added Mar 19, 2018 - 7:03pm
I'm pressed for time and will only be able to answer two questions. First regarding the NASA project into FTL drives, see the following...
Watch "Is The Alcubierre Warp Drive Possible? | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios" on YouTube - https://youtu.be/94ed4v_T6YM
 
Secondly what I said about myself is true, I am an atheist and I am a Satanist. The two are not mutually exclusive, in fact all Church of Satan members are atheists (see www.churchofsatan.com) although I don't see what any of that has to do with this decision.
James Travil Added Mar 19, 2018 - 10:58pm
Reading some of the more humorous things I came across this, from Flying Junior "There is a historical record to be found in the Bible.  Anyone who would deny this is simply ignorant of history."
This type of anti-logic argument is called circular logic. It preposes a conclusion wrapped in an Ad Hominem insult but provides zero evidence to support it's conclusions. Typical of how delusional Christians "think", but it did give me a laugh it is so desperate and pathetic, lol! Stop by anytime Flying Tube! 
James Travil Added Mar 19, 2018 - 11:05pm
Pardero, Opher, Stone and Mustafa thanks for the comments. Oh and Ian, John, and Clock as well. Hope I didn't forget anyone who contributed. Thanks for holding the fort while I was at work. And no I won't be deleting anything, I'll just let the good stand with the bad and let observers figure out which is which!
James Travil Added Mar 19, 2018 - 11:09pm
Oh and Dino  thanks also. Wow a lot of people commented, whiwh is great! 
Flying Junior Added Mar 20, 2018 - 4:11am
I like you James.  I"m glad you keep a sense of humor.  You told everybody you were a Satanist.  You didn't mention that you were a fundamentalist Satanist!  lol
 
I know people that hate Christianity and  by extension, the Bible, the church, the whole thing.  I thought it might be fun to discuss King Cyrus, King Darius and King Nebuchadnezzar.  No matter. 
Flying Junior Added Mar 20, 2018 - 4:32am
Your question is fascinating if one takes the time to investigate it.  I don't really care so much about the exact number.  5 billion years?  Is the Solar System much older than the Earth?  I care more about speculating and theorizing what actually happened to create the miracle of life on Earth.  You know.  The whole thing with the sun, the moon and the tides.  Important shit.
 
I think we can all agree that the only force which could have created perfect spheres, spherical orbits and, let me think for a moment, Son...  Saturn?  ...would have a great deal to do with revolutions, spinning and circles.  And gravity.  Without gravity none of this would be possible.  I guess on the WB, I might be considered something of an Einstein, given the level of scientific accuracy reflected by many posters here.
 
Those who have pondered the origins of the Solar System, as many of you might recall from the days of your youth, consider that whatever cosmic matter that formed the sun also lost some mass to the nearby system.  Yet mysteriously, gravity held on to that mass and created the orbiting planets out of circling, cosmic dust.
 
That process may have taken place in less than one million years.  How dare I make such a reckless statement?  Because I went right to the source.  The American Geophysical Union.  Here is one theory which allowed some lucky dog to get his Ph.D.
 
Let me just quote the conclusion to stimulate some thought.  Read the entire thesis at your leisure.
 
The thesis is found here in the Georneys, known as the Geological Musings, Wanderings and Adventures of the lucky few who can claim membership in the AGU.
 
https://blogs.agu.org/georneys/2011/04/29/the-origin-of-the-earth/
 
I haven't even thought about any of this for decades.  It's pretty far out.
 
Our solar system evolved from the solar nebula, which was composed of stardust from extinct stars and thus rich in heavier elements relative to cosmic abundances. Likely triggered by a shockwave from a nearby exploding supernova, the solar nebula collapsed gravitationally to evolve into the solar system. The solar nebula heated up, began spinning faster, and formed into a disk. Eventually, a proto-sun formed at the dense, hot center of the young solar system. At the same time, gases and dust began to condense in the outer, cooler parts of the solar system. Heavier, more refractory elements condensed closer to the sun, forming the terrestrial planets, while hydrocarbons condensed further from the sun, forming large bodies which were able to capture gases from the solar nebula and develop into gas giant planets. At the furthest reaches of the solar system, icy planets formed from methane, water, and ammonia ice. The Earth is believed to have accreted from chondritic planetesimals about 4.567 billion years ago. Chondrite meteorites come from old, undifferentiated asteroids that have undergone very little alteration or metamorphism. Carbonaceous chondrites are rich in organic material and are the least altered and metamorphosed of the chondrites. Thus, carbonaceous chondrites are often used as the starting material for Earth in geophysical and geochemical models. Earth was mostly accreted by ~10 million years after the formation of the solar system, and there was probably significant accretion of the Earth up to ~100 million years. Towards the end of Earth’s accretion, impacts between large planetesimals may have played a key role Earth’s growth and development. In particular, an impact from a large, Mars-sized impactor ~30 million years after the formation of the solar system may have created the moon and a deep magma ocean on Earth. The formation of the core probably occurred gradually as Earth accreted. However, the final stage of core formation may have been aided by the descent of iron and sulfur rich melts through a molten, silicate magma ocean. Eventually, the magma ocean crystallized, and the upper Earth differentiated into an enriched, continental crust and a depleted mantle, the source for oceanic crust. Potentially, an early proto-crust may have existed early in Earth’s history.
Doug Plumb Added Mar 20, 2018 - 6:41am
I know the earth is at least 54 years old, all else is speculation.
James Travil Added Mar 20, 2018 - 6:15pm
Mr. G I think you have confused Satanists with devil worshipers. Satanists don't worship any deity or devil as we don't believe in any. We only "worship" ourselves, life, and perhaps certain individuals in our lives who have earned it (and actually exist unlike mythical beings). I recommended the Church of Satan website because it goes further into Satanic philosophy. They have discussion forums for further information and or we can continue this on my own first article here "Greetings from the Abyss" which is the proper place for such a thing, not this thread.
James Travil Added Mar 20, 2018 - 6:31pm
Flying Junior wasn't King Darius the father of King Xerces (however his name is spelled) the so called "god king" of Persia from the movie 300? And yes I would consider myself a fundamental Satanist because I really hate Christianity, I consider it a historical revisionist cancer on society. We would probably be living among the stars by now were it not for the Christian inspired dark ages. And there are all those lives destroyed in the name of God. Infuriating.
 
Anyhow thanks for bringing the discussion back to it's actual subject matter.
 
Mr. G I believe in the infinite bubble universes theory. Sure it can't be proven, but then again neither can hyper ancient pre-historic civilizations.
Doug Plumb Added Mar 20, 2018 - 6:32pm
re "I don't get this: 
     "Christians adopt a matter of faith that is in line
     with rational law." 
 
I know. I don't think that a communist can get it, and I'm being serious. I think its the hard point in this whole commie vs rationalism debate. I'm sorry, I try to explain what rational law is everywhere on here. Most people don't get it.
David Montaigne Added Mar 20, 2018 - 10:23pm
Maimonides said over 800 years ago that any perceived conflict between science and religion generally stems from our misunderstanding one or both viewpoints - but that science and religion should be in agreement.  He said in The Guide For The Perplexed that “the only path to knowing God is through science.”  I think he would agree that the planet is billions of years old but the current surface arrangement, "the earth" as discussed in ancient times, is just thousands of years old.  Whether or not he would have supported the POLE SHIFT theory or not I can't say, but Albert Einstein did, FWIW...
Gerrilea Added Mar 21, 2018 - 1:25am
Doug P-- Hummm...David M gives me a hint at your "rational law" definition.  I do not see myself as a communist and I'm not sure how that relates.  I seriously believe religion and faith have done more harm to our species than good.  The same can be said for science and "rational" thought.  One kept humanity in the dark and subservient to a priest class, the other is on the path of doing exactly the same thing but with the power to destroy all life on this blue ball with a push of a button and/or devices that allow us to expand beyond the natural capacity of this planet to sustain. 
 
Is there a place for each? Sure.  Are we not more than the sum of our parts?  Most definitely.  Faith gives us that.
 
Can we measure that? Not yet but we're getting close.
 
We're "rational beasts" and are easily manipulated, conditioned and controlled.  Science has given those in power that ability and to do so on a level no one could have imagined.  Full Spectrum Dominance.  From birth through death.
 
The "rational" Hegelian Dialectic:
          Problem-Reaction-(predetermined) Solution.
 
Over-populated?  Vaccines to the "rescue".
Mentally defective?  No rights for you, especially your parental rights to do with your property as you see fit.  Oh wait, that's called child abuse now.
 
All that said, is "rational law" science, rebranded? Or something else?
 
James T--- I got that from your link.  "I-theist".  I have an old copy of LaVey's Satanic Bible and have read it from cover to cover.  It's very similar to "Dianetics".  Service to self.  If someone let's you take advantage of them, it's their fault, etc, etc, etc.
 
And it's very central to your "how old is the Earth" article here. Do you believe all "religious writings" are fantasy and delusion and anyone presenting them as grounds for instantaneous ridicule and scorn because what you believe is the only "truth"?
 
The only "absolute" in this Universe is change.
 
On this planet, "force" is God.
 
 
 
James Travil Added Mar 21, 2018 - 1:43am
'Do you believe all "religious writings" are fantasy and delusion and anyone presenting them as grounds for instantaneous ridicule and scorn'
Pretty much. 
'because what you believe is the only "truth"?'
I only believe scientific evidence and research  that is my truth. What I call rational truth. 
Flying Junior Added Mar 21, 2018 - 2:03am
King Cyrus was the ancient Persian king who conquered Babylon, thus freeing the Hebrews who had been held in captivity and exile in Babylon.  Not the entire population, but most of the Hebrews were taken from Jerusalem and lived in Babylon until Cyrus freed them
 
King Darius was the son of King Cyrus.  He continued his father's practice of allowing the Jews to worship in freedom.  They were also allowed to return to Jerusalem.  They were both considered just kings.  Their rule was benevolent.
James Travil Added Mar 21, 2018 - 2:23am
Well thanks for that Flying Junior. Apparently Darius is a common Persian name, because I just re-watched 300 and that was indeed the name of Xerses father also. History is fascinating as long as we note the difference in fact and fiction.
Doug Plumb Added Mar 21, 2018 - 7:01am
re "I seriously believe religion and faith have done more harm to our species than good.  The same can be said for science and "rational" thought. "
 
Read a little bit of philosophy and you become an atheist. Read a lot and you discover God. What is called "rational thought" is often not, and really the idea only applies to law in its entirety, not economics. A perfectly rational economist would have most people starving. A perfectly rational legislator would have everyone free of statutory encumbrances that were not written to protect the freedom of others.
Doug Plumb Added Mar 21, 2018 - 7:03am
re "he other is on the path of doing exactly the same thing but with the power to destroy all life on this blue ball with a push of a button "
 
lol. You watch too much TV. I watched "The Day After" a few days ago. USA had 3000 nukes at Russia's border. Ya, we kill a mosquito with a sledge hammer. Its all perfectly rational.
The only thing you have to fear is fear itself.
Doug Plumb Added Mar 21, 2018 - 7:05am
re "He said in The Guide For The Perplexed"
 
Ram-Bam is quite a guy. I'd like to get an old unsanitized copy of that baby one day.
Gerrilea Added Mar 21, 2018 - 7:46am
Doug P-  Unusual point of view.  Rational discussion becomes fear and "you watch too much TV".  Your argument claims if I read enough philosophy I'll find God.  Are you now saying God = truth of rational thought??? 
 
No hon, I don't fear much, I do however understand how religious dogma enslaves the human mind, body and spirit.  I also understand that science is has become the new religion.  This isn't fear but reality.
 
Pointing out how "science" is now used to enslave and control the masses whilst giving man the power to destroy all life on this planet isn't fear ... it's reality.
 
And by the by, I have't watched "tel-lie-vision" for almost a decade and the author of this article, James T, is using this forum to present his philosophy and truth.
 
Isn't that what we all, in the end, do?  Do we not create our own philosophy, our own reality and our own truth?
 
Yep.
 
What I'll always question, test and challenge is how your reality & truth is a reflection (or not) of what I perceive and understand.
 
Who knows, maybe I'll surrender parts of my reality for a "superior" or more "complete" truth...
 
 
 
 
opher goodwin Added Mar 21, 2018 - 8:38am
John - you are right to point out that the birds are the descendants of the dinosaurs.
We seem to live in an age of deliberate disbelief in anything experts say. We're back into an insane age of stupidity and superstition.
It's time we told all those stupid people who believe in nonsense to grow up.
Gerrilea Added Mar 21, 2018 - 9:27am
Opher G-- They have no one else to blame but themselves.  The cracks began with the release of the "climategate emails".  You know the ones that established a "scientific" conspiracy to alter actual historic temperature data sets and to manipulate public opinion to support their now debunked pseudo-science?
 
Surely you've been paying attention, right? Report after report  reveals the truth.  Our modern "scientists" are PR salesmen, nothing more.
 
The whistleblowers, like Manning and Snowden,  that presented the entire world with actual facts are just people not willing to grow up?
 
Pfft!
 
Want me to believe you? Don't cook the books, lie about it and then call me names when I find out you're full of shit.
 
opher goodwin Added Mar 21, 2018 - 9:59am
Ger - the supposed Climategate emails are a bunch of hot air that deniers cling on to in order to hang on to their view that all experts are false prophets. They are misleading and tell us nothing.
I put my faith in the integrity and objectivity of science and scientists.
Yes we have developed nuclear bombs and germ warfare but it is not the scientists who will misuse them. It is the religious fundamentalists and politicians who'll do that.
Gerrilea Added Mar 21, 2018 - 12:03pm
Opher G--- Then, sadly, I must break this to you...you are in denial.
 
          "I put my faith in the integrity and objectivity of
           science and scientists."
 
The Climategate emails showed exactly the opposite.  They were more concerned with Public Opinion than actual science, they deleted and changed temperature data sets that didn't fit their debunked theories.
 
Benjamin Goldstein Added Mar 21, 2018 - 2:23pm
82 comments about an article on how old the planet is. Must be interesting. I should learn to read more than the headlines. Well done, James!
Stone-Eater Added Mar 21, 2018 - 2:39pm
Ben
 
That's because James is a good author. I for myself think the world is 60 years old. Why ? Because that's my age. How can I be certain that everything before is not Fake ? Should I ask Donald Duck ? Oh, sorry, Trump. That surname LOL
Stone-Eater Added Mar 21, 2018 - 2:45pm
BTW:
 
The first Homo was not a Homo, but a Hetero. First mistake. And then, he was a Ramapithecus about 10 million years ago - at least he was the INTERFACE to what we call HOMETERO...or so.
 
But in the near future we might find out that we actually come from Planet X who is currently in the Kuiper Belt, and originates from the Oort cloud. That's why I've got no data in the cloud. One never knows and has to be careful LOL
Mustafa Kemal Added Mar 21, 2018 - 3:37pm
John Minehan, re:
""Exist" not "exists."  Sorry."
I think you mean " exist not exits"
Doug Plumb Added Mar 21, 2018 - 4:02pm
re ""I put my faith in the integrity and objectivity of
           science and scientists."
 
Actually you are putting you faith in what Tee Vee says that scientists say rather than what scientists actually say.
Doug Plumb Added Mar 21, 2018 - 4:03pm
re "Your argument claims if I read enough philosophy I'll find God.  Are you now saying God = truth of rational thought??? "
 
Its been said many times, and yes, God = truth in rational thought - essentially that is Christianity.
Doug Plumb Added Mar 21, 2018 - 4:10pm
re "No hon, I don't fear much, I do however understand how religious dogma enslaves the human mind, body and spirit.  I also understand that science is has become the new religion.  This isn't fear but reality."
  Statutory religions do that. Christianity is based on reason and has only one commandment above all others, "Love thy neighbor as thyself" - its an expression of common law. Other religions have absolute rule by cleric. Christians are not ruled by their clerics. Most don't go to church.
 
"Pointing out how "science" is now used to enslave and control the masses whilst giving man the power to destroy all life on this planet isn't fear ... it's reality."
  Stupidity, hubris, fear and the desire to place comfort above all else and the other deadly sins control the masses the masses all by themselves. Scientists just clear a path. The problem with science is that science has no rational reason why half the population shouldn't work to destroy the other half, which is exactly what is happening around us.
Doug Plumb Added Mar 21, 2018 - 4:13pm
re "And by the by, I have't watched "tel-lie-vision" for almost a decade and the author of this article, James T, is using this forum to present his philosophy and truth.
 
Isn't that what we all, in the end, do?  Do we not create our own philosophy, our own reality and our own truth?"
 
  No, we don't create our own truth. If we did I'd be sitting on a yacht in the south seas surrounded by beautiful young women who live by every word and action of mine.
  At least until it got boring.
  The truth we create for ourselves is a convenient truth. An objective truth can be found from reading philosophy and laws and the great thinkers on these subjects. The two best ones are Christ and Kant (Kant just explains Christ)
Doug Plumb Added Mar 21, 2018 - 4:16pm
re "What I'll always question, test and challenge is how your reality & truth is a reflection (or not) of what I perceive and understand.
 
Who knows, maybe I'll surrender parts of my reality for a "superior" or more "complete" truth..."
 
This is called "objective" truth. Children live in an imaginary world, adults live in the real one and face truth as it is, not how they want it to be or how they think it is.
 
Doug Plumb Added Mar 21, 2018 - 4:17pm
Opher re "I put my faith in the integrity and objectivity of science and scientists."
 
Scientists never lie, only politicians lie.
James Travil Added Mar 21, 2018 - 7:02pm
Sorry Mr. Plumb but I do not get my science from television. And yes Mr. Goldstein I am also amazed at how popular this article was, probably owing to it being surprisingly contraversal (only on Writer’s Beat).
Gerrilea Added Mar 22, 2018 - 12:36am
Doug P-- could I introduce you to Mr James T, the author of this article?  He is creating his own reality and it sounds like he's got all he's wanted.  Great job, two women and time to share it here with us.
 
Why does your reality not include a yacht and beautiful women?  You surrendered your truth to a perceived higher one, "Love thy neighbor..."
 
I'm disappointed that you've revealed yourself to be so bigoted and singular in your thought process. I held a false hope.
 
"Objective" reality has shown me pure evil perpetuated by man against man, woman, child and beast.  If your "God of rational thought" held an iota of truth....this would not be.
 
Truth is self-evident and needs no training, conditioning or the words of man whom lived 2000 yrs ago telling us of it.
 
Therefore, your premise must be in error and I suspect you have all that you want/wanted.  IF not, then your thought process was not honed to a rational path towards your desires and goals.
 
This has been a fun exchange, we started with the question, How old is the earth and ended up with opinions layered with rationalizations from various perspectives. Each claiming theirs was "truth".
 
Hmmm....I can only conclude that it doesn't really matter. 
 
:)
 
Thanks James T, we are no closer to any truths or absolutes.
 
Dawggonit!
Doug Plumb Added Mar 22, 2018 - 5:53am
re ""Objective" reality has shown me pure evil perpetuated by man against man, woman, child and beast.  If your "God of rational thought" held an iota of truth....this would not be."
 
That is just reality everywhere, not a product of Christianity.
 
re "Truth is self-evident and needs no training, conditioning or the words of man whom lived 2000 yrs ago telling us of it."
 
It just requires rational thought. Sometimes a guide lights the way but the thought is purely rational.
 
Doug Plumb Added Mar 22, 2018 - 5:53am
re "Therefore, your premise must be in error and I suspect you have all that you want/wanted.  IF not, then your thought process was not honed to a rational path towards your desires and goals."
 
Thinkers are never satisfied with what they know.
 
Gerrilea Added Mar 22, 2018 - 7:34am
Doug P--- I do not discriminate against any one religion but all of them.  The religions man has created are 90% brainwashing & conditioning, 9% control and MAYBE 1% of "good".
 
Can each philosophy contain some nugget of truth, sure...but rarely and that's how they snare you in their trap. 
 
The Jews believed slavery was good and "moral". So did Christians and even today, Muslims still believe it.
 
I, however, do not.
 
They rationalize various forms of abuse, slavery and poverty onto the masses whilst creating chains that bind their mind and spirit.
 
It's this same mentality that allows the horrid abuse we inflict upon the wild beasts that sustain our very lives.  "They are not rational. They have no consciousness."   "The prophet, god or book has stated we have domain over all!"
 
Their lies, manipulations and propaganda, spread at the tip of a spear, has separated us from the world that is our life.
 
But I digress.
 
Your last posting is sooo absolutely true...at least for me...I think too much, some days, and am never satisfied until I uncover some cosmic "key" that leads me to a further "truth".
 
Hehehehehe...
 
:)
opher goodwin Added Mar 22, 2018 - 11:40am
Doug - no - only some! Some politicians lie and some scientists lie. But scientists have to put forward all their workings for inspection so it is harder to get away with it. Other scientists want proof.
opher goodwin Added Mar 22, 2018 - 11:42am
Ger - I do not discriminate against any one religion but all of them.  The religions man has created are 90% brainwashing & conditioning, 9% control and MAYBE 1% of "good".
I'd concur with that.
Ian Thorpe Added Mar 22, 2018 - 2:56pm
Gerrilea: Once again I'm late answering you in this thread but I liked your point about questioning Big Bang etc. Do you find that when these highly specualtive "scientific facts" are questioned a lot of people immediately assume you are a religious fundamentalist, a "science denier" to quote the accusers?
It's as if modern education is equipping people with binary minds, they are only capable of considering two points of view on anything. It is beyond them to see that I can question both Big Bang and the Biblical creation, and yet not have an answer to "how did it all begin," other than I'm content not to know, some things are beyond knowing.
Gerrilea Added Mar 22, 2018 - 6:53pm
Ian T--- SAY Wwuhhatt???
 
"I'm content not to know, some things are beyond knowing".
 
:)
 
Many things cannot be known...but boy can we have fun trying to figure it out.  "My guess is better than yours!" " No it's not!"
 
I really do like my theory though...(after all, I did think of it)....Maybe the universe just "is"...why does it need a beginning or end? I know I exist (or think I do) and I'm blessed I have an opportunity to explore it all....even if very briefly.
 
As for this blue ball were all stuck to...I think there were these "pan-dimensional beings (they looked like mice when in our reality)" that created Earth as a computer simulation to figure out the question to it all.
 
OH wait, that was Douglass Adams' idea.
 
Dang it.
 
 
 

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