INCELS - I Never Heard of Them UNTIL the Toronto Attack

I read this article after looking at for anything interesting this morning.

Incels Categorize Women by Personal Style and Attractiveness

There are “Stacys” and there are “Beckys.”

Only by the end of the article did I realize, (since I'm dense and slow sometimes) this article definitely wasn't written by a man... because women obviously do the same thing (rating men by personal style and attractiveness.)  It was probably written by a "Becky" and sure enough, I scrolled back up to see who wrote it and... Rebecca it is.
As her article says: "Incel, the online community of “involuntarily celibate” men radicalized by their shared mistrust of women, has existed on the internet for years. But it wasn’t until Monday, when a man drove a van down a street in Toronto and killed 10 people, that many people knew of its existence."  (I had never heard of incels before the recent attack in Toronto either.)
Personally, if I see a woman that strikes me as "The Stacy" depicted above I'm completely turned off by the behavior.  Out of those two choices I'd pick "The Becky" any day.  But women are people, unique individuals, not products off an assembly line to be ordered.
Although... I assume that technology will soon provide sufficiently realistic and affordable sexbots and incels won't even care much about rejection anymore in another decade or two.
Rebecca also notes that "some incels have called for a version of “sexual Marxism,” or a system in which every person is somehow matched with a partner."
I'm against Marxism and communism, but it is an interesting twist to suggest that the communist sharing of unfairly distributed "assets" should include sex and not just money.  " each according to his needs" is a line from Karl Marx.  I suspect few female communists view this as a non-monetary suggestion...
I also suspect Camila Vallejo could convert a few men to Communism if she did though...
Should society do anything different to encourage more women to want nice guys and beta males?  Rebecca certainly seemed focused on incel misogyny and their classifications of Stacys and Beckys but had little to no commentary on incels' claims that even average looking women are generally unattainable for them because they "only date “Chads” (muscular, popular men who are presumed to sleep with lots of women.)" 
There is an element of truth in the idea that a minority of men sleep with the majority of women - and that the increasing sexual freedom women have in the West has largely made them free to make poor choices.  If nothing else, marriage is down, and divorce and welfare are up, because the state has volunteered everyone's tax money to support poor lifestyle choices and replace husbands and fathers with government welfare checks.  A woman doesn't have to choose a good man the way she would have in the past.  Is that cultural progress?
Should society do anything to encourage incels to strive for personal growth so they develop the strengths and traits women naturally want?  Instead of being allowed to retreat into anti-social internet environments, could more young men be socially encouraged to go outside and exercise and interact with people - even to socialize and talk to women - or is that unrealistic?  Maybe society should just encourage the technological development of robotic substitutes so that low-ranking individuals won't be as likely to be driven insane by their social failures?
I also suspect discussion of "incels" will be in the "news" online a lot more for a while. 


Jeffry Gilbert Added Apr 30, 2018 - 6:59am
Very very happy to have left that entire hemisphere and its utterly ridiculous nonsense in my wake. How anyone can stand to live there is beyond me. 
Dino Manalis Added Apr 30, 2018 - 8:16am
That's why people have to be evaluated before they're given rental vehicles to assure public safety!
opher goodwin Added Apr 30, 2018 - 8:31am
It seems to me to be a reaction to the blossoming of female emancipation.
I must say that the whole plastic stupidity of all the Stacy's or wanna be Stacy's staggering around our cities is the biggest turn off possible. All they are doing is mindlessly producing a stereotype of what males want. I find it repulsive.
As to what unattractive males should do. They should join education programmes, arts programmes, sports programmes etc. and meet real girls that are not trying to be stereotypes of male fantasy and are so up their own arse they don't want real people. 
There are real, nice girls out there who aren't just interested in bonking blokes who fit the female fantasy model. There must be ways for them to meet up.
Give me real people any day.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Apr 30, 2018 - 8:54am
As to what unattractive males should do.
A voice of experience.
Adolf Dick McMenace Added Apr 30, 2018 - 9:01am
This is yet another example of why prostitution should be legalized. From what I've seen, these "incel" types are almost invariably scrawny, whiny and pathetic losers, and those traits usually aren't a big hit with the women. On the other hand, I've seen the ugliest motherfuckers on the planet have hot chicks virtually standing in line to blow them. Outside of counting on them to be bitches, cunts, dykes, and whores, you never know what's percolating between those pretty little ears, lol! I bet several Canadians would be alive right now had a paid lass been there to drain his load.
Pardero Added Apr 30, 2018 - 2:57pm
David Montaigne,
Fascinating article.
Actually, the Becky's description notes show that she is every bit as shallow as the Stacey, she merely lacks the assets.
I would go for a less shallow Becky. Fake breasts and heavy make-up do nothing for me, and are actually repellent, though not as repellent as tattoos and piercings. At my age, one appreciates petite endomorphs that were built for the long haul.
Opher made a wise comment, but substitute 'not the big man on campus' for "unattractive."
To paraphrase Milton, better to be a prince among the plain ladies, than to be an also-ran among the hot tramps.
opher goodwin Added Apr 30, 2018 - 3:06pm
Jeffry - I would never have guessed.
opher goodwin Added Apr 30, 2018 - 3:07pm
Michael b - _ I agree Prostitution should be legal. 
Bill H. Added Apr 30, 2018 - 3:53pm
I married a Becky back in 1970 and we are still married. My friends who married Stacys are all divorced several times over.
Stacys are not marriage material.
Dino - Maybe their needs to be a NRVA that will protect the rights of all Americans to rent vehicles since they are now a weapon of choice for wanna-be mass murderers.
David Montaigne Added Apr 30, 2018 - 10:23pm
Kudos to the members of Writerbeat - on this site, the previous post on my Pole Shift book and article got way more attention than this post on incels... there is another forum/site I write for where the reverse is true.  Overall (I'm being serious) I think the Writerbeat members are a smarter bunch.  Thank you for the often insightful comments.
Bill H. Added Apr 30, 2018 - 11:15pm
Keep it coming, David!
James Travil Added Apr 30, 2018 - 11:43pm
Interesting article. Also interesting is the fact that one of my two ladies is named Stacy, and she is certainly the looker. She's far from a vapid anti-intellectual though (she's actually a chess master). FYI my other lady is not a/named Becky, oh well... This whole thing puts me in mind of asking is a woman a Velma or a Darcy! 
Logical Man Added May 1, 2018 - 9:54pm
The murder of multiple people seems an inappropriate response to the inability to get laid, I think.
The guy is just a nut job and the victims were unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
This has nothing to do with 'types of women'
David Montaigne Added May 2, 2018 - 5:29am
I think when individuals are driven insane by their unhappiness, and they are part of a community that places blame on others, we need to at least be aware of that trend.  There are reasons why we have Islamic terrorism, and in my opinion part of it stems from a culture that hinders the adaptation of modern technology and freedom while simultaneously dehumanizing those outside the community and encouraging a state of war with the rest of the world.  We should be aware of the social factors at play and it should impact how we deal with immigration, international diplomacy, etc.
Likewise we should at least have an awareness that some percentage of young men feel extremely dissatisfied and angry over their lack of social value/status and their lack of success in relationships with women.  If the Toronto attack were merely by one sociopath, then there is little to learn.  But an incel community does exist; they do feel outcast, sad, and angry - there are social changes in the last century that have led to it, and like any other major social problem - crime rates would fall and productivity would rise if the problem had a magic answer and could be easily remedied. 
If we aren't aware that it is a real problem for some very unhappy portion of the population, we can't possibly consider what steps are necessary, if any, to encourage new and different behavior that could reduce the problem.  Like poverty or drug use it may never go away, or have a perfect fix, but that doesn't mean it isn't real or shouldn't be addressed at all.  Maybe in a few generations we will look back and see that parents started getting more involved in shaping their childrens' values and expectations.  Maybe we will have legalized prostitution.  I don't have all the answers, but ignoring the problem until it gets bigger rarely helps.
Jeffry Gilbert Added May 2, 2018 - 7:12am
 ignoring the problem until it gets bigger rarely helps.
But you can't say it isn't entertaining.
Even A Broken Clock Added May 2, 2018 - 11:24am
David, the Reddit subculture contains many different rabbit holes. Sometimes a group forms there and is able to develop its own momentum, its own rules, its own memes. I think the incel group is one such example. I had not been familiar with them before the Toronto incident myself.
Tamara Wilhite Added May 3, 2018 - 5:21pm
 Logical Man
Yes, the frustrated sexual impulse of young men often does lead to violence. That's why societies with skewed sex ratios have higher rates of rape, murder and crime even when income and cultures are similar.
Islam has weaponized this by encouraging men with money and status to have multiple wives (and the option of sex slaves).  Young men with no prospects engage in violence in the hope of winning girls in this life or suicidal violence on the promise of dozens of virgins in heaven. 
Logical Man Added May 3, 2018 - 6:53pm
If you read what I typed you completely missed my point and went all Islamophobic.
As an atheist, I hold all religions in equal 'esteem'.
All religions encourage violence against 'unbelievers', it seems and are used by those in power to make the herd go where they want it to go, for their own ends.
Tamara Wilhite Added May 3, 2018 - 9:50pm
Are you labeling Christianity as an equal threat to civilization and freedom as Islam? 
Islam is a religion that in 2018 has brought back slavery  (Libya of blacks, ISIS of Yazidi and Christian girls). That  engages in systematic oppression of women while killing atheists and homosexuals. And you consider this equally bad with Christianity?
If you think Christians not wanting to pay for abortion are equal to people practicing FGM and raping girls for wearing shorts, you're irrationally romanticizing Islam and unfairly smearing Christianity.
Islam is the only religion on the planet where the fundamentalists are in a literal world war with the rest of us. They're killing Buddhists in Thailand and India. They're killing Hindus in India. They're killing atheists in Muslim majority countries. They're driving Christians out of the Middle East and demand Christians submit to second class status, hidden from public view, in Europe. That IS a threat to civilization.  Christopher Hitchens recognized it a decade ago. Too bad too many liberals secularists don't.
David Montaigne Added May 4, 2018 - 9:39am
As you may remember from the avatar of my previous book cover for Nostradamus and the Islamic Invasion of Europe - I would agree with Tamara, all the way back to Samuel Hntingdon's Clash of Civilizations and even Winston Churchill's century old comments on Islam.  That's the threat for WWIII.  But to liberals, every opinion and way of life is equally valid.
Tamara Wilhite Added May 4, 2018 - 10:12am
David Montaigne  To say that every way of life is equally valid is to condemn liberal secular values.
To say that a culture that openly oppresses women, commits honor killings, kills homosexuals and atheists is equal to one that doesn't is to undermine if not deny liberal values.
If you say that liberal secular values or Judeo-Christian ones are better and are to be defended at home but not imposed abroad, that's at least logical - that your culture that ended slavery and gives women equal rights is better than those that don't but you won't risk lives and spend money imposing it. But you can still fight a culture war maintain your values and try to convert them peacefully.
The true insanity or willful blindness to the same effect is to import people from a truly oppressive culture, deny the issue, and then say you can't expect or require them to live by Western rules.
Examples from real news stories: Oh, you had a sexual emergency and raped a ten year old, poor baby, you don't know better, no jail time. Muslim rape gangs going after 10-15 year old white girls? We can't let people attack that superior culture, cover up the crimes, blame the victims, arrest critics of Muslim immigrants and Islam at large. Muslims issuing death threats to homosexuals was excused by a Dutch nonprofit before the public outcry. Anti-Semitism by Muslims still gets a pass or blamed on everyone at large instead of the group 90% to blame, just as liberals choose to ban all  men from venues instead of admit it is the misogynist imports who are molesting and raping girls at concerts.
In that regard, liberals' multiculturalism is the DEATH of women's rights and civil rights.
Logical Man Added May 4, 2018 - 8:58pm
Tamara, as luck would have it, I'm reading "God is not great - why religion poisons everything" by Mr. Hitchens.
It would appear you have swallowed the poison.
You might consider giving it a read - probably a good antidote to the poison.
Tamara Wilhite Added May 5, 2018 - 10:28am
Poison? Fear of liberals submitting to Islam at the expense of both people's literal safety and our rights is rational at this point.

Why Did British Police Ignore Muslim Gangs Abusing 1,400 Rotherham Children? Political Correctness
Grooming gangs abused more than 700 women and girls around Newcastle after police appeared to punish victims

Fury as watchdog says it's OK to send gay people death threats – but only if you're Muslim
Logical Man Added May 5, 2018 - 11:08am
The poison I refer to is the use of one's religious belief to impose their will on others. You seem to ignore a lot of history.
Your last link points out the stupidity of politicians for suggesting the law be applied differently to one group than another, not that Muslims with fundamentalist belief in their own Invisible Sky Guy are more likely to condemn gays than fundamentalist Christians, or any other religion, for that matter.
David Montaigne Added May 5, 2018 - 1:41pm
I think Tamara is correctly assessing the failures of Islam and the threats it poses to women, homosexuals, Jews and Christians, and Western culture and nations.  For all the failings of the groups Islam mistreats, I'd take the groups mentioned above over Islamic domination any day.  But many liberals cater to Islam, and many Europeans are willfully committing collective national suicide importing millions of Muslim immigrants that will not assimilate into Europe peacefully.
As for incels, Beckys, and Stacys - they all have a bleak future under Islam too. 
Logical Man Added May 5, 2018 - 2:15pm
My point was that all fundamentalist religions are a danger to all the groups you mention and to free thought and open exchange of views, David.
I'm merely pointing out the one sided nature of TW's comments.
Tamara Wilhite Added May 7, 2018 - 5:52pm

Logical Man To demand that the criticism be applied equally is illogical.
Equating Christians who don't want to bake a cake for a same-sex wedding with Muslims who throw homosexuals off of roofs is unfair. In fact, equating them is a lie because one is an inconvenience while the other is the end of a life.
If I complain about Muslim rape gangs, FGM and honor killings and throw in "and there are Christians who oppose abortion" as equal, I'm distracting from true horrors while minimizing them.
Making matters worse, too many people will fixate on the local boogeyman instead of the real threat to women's rights, Islam's true rape culture targeting little girls in the West in addition to bringing back sex slave markets to the Middle East. No, let's complain about Christians complaining about X-rated award shows, they won't kill us like Muslims who blow up trains because our women don't cover up.
I understand that many liberals are refusing to measure things in degrees, but that's how you get the insanely unfair comparison of wolf whistles and farting with rape. It unjustly minimizes the rape while elevating the minor to the major.
And perhaps as bad for society, it expands the scope to the point that the problem is unsolvable. After all, if you expand the issue of "sexual assault" to include the male gaze, now it is mundane and not worth bothering to deal with.
Likewise, complaining about minor issues with Buddhism, Jainism and Christianity distracts from real, major problems because you're trying to be "fair" by insulting all of them as equally bad. Trying to eliminate all religions, including Buddhism and Jainism, does nothing to resolve Islamic terrorism or the oppressive nature of its fundamentalism.
But it does give them an "out" because you bashed your own culture as being as bad.
David Montaigne Added May 8, 2018 - 9:29am
While all organized religions have their bad points, one stands out to me as far worse than all the others.  I don't understand why more feminists don't seem to care about Islam.
Kurt Bresler Added May 13, 2018 - 10:23am
What was this article about oh yeah, incels. 
Wow, I am glad I read this article not because of incels in particular but because I am glad I am not the only one who sees Islam as the most dangerous thing on the planet even bigger than a few EMP's  
And I am sure Islam is full of it's own type of incels, that is guys who fail or never attempt to get involved with the opposite sex other than rape and molestation and just use the women as one step above or below masturbation. 
When the culture closes inward, it leaves those more susceptible out further.  Look at all the walls around the houses to see some indication of open culture.