Why Do We Think They Are That Innocent?

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Jumping off Michael Bs article about John Lennon’s bad ways as a person, and some of the reactions, lets talk about that.

These are people. In some instances very talented people that can do or say ALMOST anything and get away with it. Some handle that well and bounce back nicely and others do not. I imagine public pressure doesn’t help much.


But they can still do things that would cause outrage today or even if more people had known about it then.


Here are just a few examples..

Eric Clapton at least at one time was a  serious hardcore racist. The co-writer of “Layla” (a drummer named Jim Gordon) killed his mother, by crushing her skull with a hammer and stabbing her to death. He also played on “Youre So Vain”,”Imagine” and “Pet Sounds”.


Led Zeppelin whipped a fan with a mud shark, cutting her flesh according to Carmine Appice. Also Jimmy Page locked his underage groupie in his dressing room to avoid legal issues, Lori Maddox who at 14 was locked away for long periods of time by Page.  No hard feelings though.


GNR drummers assistant was kidnapping girls and raping them.  Not so famous but still going on under the guise of GnR.


Bill Wynman dated a 13 year old while in his 30s..


David Bowie was an admirer of Hitler calling him the first rock star.


Steve Tyler adopted a young girl so he could sleep with her, get her pregnant, force an abortion and send her home to mommy when he got bored after 4 years.


John Phillips of the Mamas and Papas had an incestuous relationship with his daughter Mackenzie Phillips as a young girl.


ZZ Top pretended to be the Zombies before turning things around for themselves.


What about James Brown and domestic abuse? Jerry Lee Lewis? Morrissey? Brian Jones hit a woman so hard in the face he broke his hand, he died at 27. Miles Davis admitted to his abusive behavior of women in his own autobiography. Peter McNeal (drummer for Cake and Nora Jones) is serving 15 years for Child pornography – his youngest victim was 3 years old.


What about Sinatra or Elvis with the young babes and/or tempers? Chuck Berry committed armed robbery, took a minor across state lines for sex, and video tapped women in the bathroom.


Some of these aren’t so bad and some are pretty serious and they are but a few. John Lennon was a guy, just like anyone on this list. Very talented..but a person nonetheless. Same as every talented person on this list who did screwed up things because they were famous and forgivable in most cases.  We don’t care about their lives, just the music.  There are also some very nice people who balance their lives and just play music for the love of it. But I am told it is very difficult to do.


wsucram15 Added May 5, 2018 - 4:50am
See..its not just Lennon..
wsucram15 Added May 5, 2018 - 4:52am
Enter your comment here...
Jeffry Gilbert Added May 5, 2018 - 5:56am
I never did. Having lived in Aspen back in the day I rubbed shoulders with many of them. The only way I could tell they were "somebody" was the tourists overreacting to someone I knew by seeing them  around but not by reputation. Some were dicks others weren't. 
Stone-Eater Added May 5, 2018 - 7:03am
Good counter Jeanne. Very good actually
Stone-Eater Added May 5, 2018 - 7:06am
Of the "good" ones I would point out Neil Young. Very authentic guy. A nil on guitar but NOT being able to play guitar and doing that GOOD deserves respect. Not talking of his excellent lyrics.
Stone-Eater Added May 5, 2018 - 7:09am
Or Henry Rollins. His song "Liar" is a a sign o'the times LOL
Stone-Eater Added May 5, 2018 - 7:12am
BTW: It takes a lot of personality and intelligence NOT to become arrogant when millions of kids hail you and think you're god. Not many master that at such a young age. Many are overcharged and flee into drugs and suicide.
Doug Plumb Added May 5, 2018 - 7:27am
Take a 22 year, introduce him to the man with the briefcase, the lyrics. They sit down and talk business and life. "Where do you want to be in five years?" the man asks. The kid says he wants to be a musician and will do and say what the man says. Sign on the dotted line, use your musical talent to bring this music to life, the man says. The man knows he is talking to the kid at the top of his class and has discipline necessary for success.
A few years later he has practiced all the riffs, handed down from the ages and is now ready to be promoted as a rock star.
Millions of dollars, pounds of cocaine and hundreds of women flow his way. There are not limits. He tries to find these limits to define his reality.
Years later he is with crowds of people who have had a similar experience.
I met Neil Young, he isn't bright enough to write those lyrics. Those lyrics come from someone with an astronomical IQ, maybe they came from different natives. He was way over confident and started talking tech as if he knew. I was gracious for the corrections I gave him. He was a decent guy.
I met Joni Mitchell. I wanted to know where she got the lyrics for Both Sides Now. Its one of my favorite songs. She said she just wrote them down inside five minutes on a napkin. Not true, actually, a musician had used those lyrics in the fifties. Joni Mitchell is brilliant. In the ten minutes I spent talking with her I came to the realization that she was one of those very very smart people, and she was also very humble.
Dr John Coleman of MI6 writes about the big bands, the Stones, the Beatles, I don't recall him mentioning Led Zeppelin. But the man in the briefcase brings them their lyrics.
No way a bunch of stoned kids sitting in a garage wrote that stuff.
Dino Manalis Added May 5, 2018 - 7:44am
No one's perfect, including John Lennon when he was alive, he's dead now, we should especially remember his talents.
Bill Kamps Added May 5, 2018 - 8:13am
wsu, humans are complicated.  Many try to put them neatly into categories like being a good or bad person, but many of us dont fit so neatly.  Some generally very good people, say or do some awful things, and the reverse.  It's tough to judge people, and why I dont do it.  We rarely know someone well enough to know what all they have done, and what are the reasons for what they have done.
People in the public eye are very difficult to sort out.  Often they are "performing" even when they aren't obviously.  Many have a public image they want to craft and only a few see the real person in their private moments.  We should not fall into the trap of thinking we know someone, just because we see them often.  Matt Lauer comes to mind for this.  Just because people saw him daily on TV, doesnt mean they knew a thing about him.
TexasLynn Added May 5, 2018 - 10:22am
Nice (or rather informative) article.  Thanks for the post.
The question it raises in my mind is how much of the fame and fortune can be attributed to the bad character and behavior?  Does power, fame, and/or fortune affect one's character for the worse?  Would these people have been jerks (and some degenerates) had they never made the big time?
My personal opinion is that the success provides more opportunity for the bad behavior, and once given in to... snowballs.  This is not unique to music but can be seen in acting, and sports, and politics and business...
That said, there are exceptions of upstanding successful people within all the industries mentioned.  And there are also many who have fallen... who have turned things around.
Finally, I will say that I would hate for my biggest failings or my worst days to be public knowledge or lore.
We are all human, and fall short of the glory of God.
Adolf Dick McMenace Added May 5, 2018 - 10:41am
HAHAHAHA!!! Good one Jeanne, thanks for the support! As I said in my post, musicians tend to have dwindling funds in their moral bank accounts, if not outright bankrupt in that department, lol. One of them I personally knew was pretty typical of the worse sort. He was a very talented drummer, but was one of the most incredibly obnoxious people I've ever met. He also was a minor criminal, and eventually wound up doing three years in prison for breaking into a house, stealing jewelry, and then looking up the sleeping woman's nightshirt before departing with his ill-gotten booty after sneaking a peak at the sleeping booty, who woke up screaming. A fucking asshole for sure...but damn, he was a good drummer!
And then, of course, there's EL DUCE and The MENTORS!!! I wonder how El Duce would feel about the "#metoo" movement? He probably would have put out something like "#ifuckedhertoo", lol. Speaking of which, here's a link to an issue of Nomag, which was an awesome rag back in the day. The Mentors conduct one of the greatest record reviews in music history in this one, which, appropriately enough, is near the end of the mag:
Bill Kamps Added May 5, 2018 - 10:55am
TL: The question it raises in my mind is how much of the fame and fortune can be attributed to the bad character and behavior? 
Probably is exaggerates one's tendencies.  No problem trashing a hotel room, when you know some assistant will deal with it, and all you get is an invoice you can easily afford to pay.
Adolf Dick McMenace Added May 5, 2018 - 11:03am
@ Bill K. - Probably is exaggerates one's tendencies.
I totally agree with that statement, as I've seen numerous examples of the "raw material" in the form of bush-league musicians, many of whom are essentially professional bums. To be fair, many of them make great sacrifices and live in abject poverty, but once they get a record deal and a lump sum of money, all of their hedonistic tendencies quickly run amok.
Morgoth Added May 5, 2018 - 2:35pm
Seems to me famous people, not just singers/bands, get catered to so much they feel entitled.  They feel that the rules of society don’t apply to them.  You can look at politicians, athletes, actors (and actresses) and see this type of behavior.
Benjamin Goldstein Added May 5, 2018 - 2:36pm
Same thing: Karl Marx!
Flying Junior Added May 5, 2018 - 9:33pm
I’ll tell you.  The whole thing just stank to me.  I laid out for a couple of days to see what other people would say.  I guess I was just the type of sap that Michael was hoping to piss off.  Number one I hate it when bitches name Lennon’s killer.  That just gives the little bastard the fame that he doesn’t deserve.  Neither did I get this reference to The Catcher in the Rye.  It’s just an old-school cult classic about coming of age.  It’s actually a sweet story.  What does it have to do with Lennon?  Absolutely nothing. 
Secondly, I doubt John Lennon needed to rape or harass women.  Those guys are desperate weirdos who force themselves upon women.  Not a John Lennon.  Then there is this misogynist rant against Yoko Ono.  She’s not attractive and she sings like a rabbit being killed, but she didn’t deserve to be kicked around for no reason.  So then out of one side of his mouth he is calling Gloria Allred a cunt and claiming that by being assassinated Lennon was spared an expensive lawsuit or criminal trial.  Then out of the other side of his mouth he tops it all off by calling Lennon a sexist amongst other unsubstantiated name calling.
Actually I did notice that you and Stone gave a hat tip to Lennon’s musical talents, hard work and innovation.  But I can usually count on you two to say something reasonable.
So then one guy says Joe Cocker had more talent in his little finger…  And then a bunch of guys start talking about their favorite bands of the era.  But nobody takes Michael B. to task.  I guess I just thought it was a really stupid and disorganized rant against someone that most people I know still love.  Maybe I am something of an innocent.  I am not unaware of violent tendencies in my musical mentor.  But I look to the totality of his character.  That’s right.  Jimi Hendrix taught me how to play the piano!
I didn't like the line about human organ traffickers either.  Over-the-top and antagonistic.  Pointless.  But that's Michael's style.
Mustafa Kemal Added May 6, 2018 - 12:11am
 wsucram15, you make a very interesting point, but with a very small sample. Given the number of famous musicians I think your sample is so small as to be insignificant.  In particular, I wonder how many high school teachers one might be able to charge with similar offences.
In a large world it is not hard to come by outrageous behavior by some members. But what does this have to say about the group?
I suppose that being superstars does subject that group to temptations that most of us have no experience with, or any idea of how we might respond. I certainly do not.
BTW, evidently Marty Robbins handled his fame well.
As for Lennon,  let me return to his legacy. I dont really care about the "best rock group" debate.  I find it boring, like trying to argue whether a Porsche is better than a Ferrari. But I will say this. The impact of Lennon's song writing is very large. I could recite names of songs, I could sing lyrics, I can take you back to memories, smells, and experiences all related to what it felt like to listen to a Lennon song, see here 
Revolution for an example that puts goose bumps on my skin. And that is just for starters. 
Finally, for you that are better, I suggest you go create something that puts you in the limelight for the world. Then we can discuss your behavior.  Go create something, go create something that approaches in a small way the legacy of the Beatles and the legacy of John  Lennon. 
Michael B. what have you created?
Flying Junior Added May 6, 2018 - 1:54am
Do you remember both versions of Revolution?
Dave Volek Added May 6, 2018 - 10:41am
All the atrocities attributed to celebrities are also done by ordinary people. It would be interesting to see if dysfunctional nature exists in the same proportions in the celebrity professions as the general public. 
But maybe there is a connection between a dysfunctional nature and a great drive to prove oneself. Psychopaths would be attracted to celebrity positions--and be more willing to pay the price to get there. 
Canadian rock band "Hedley" is on the verge of becoming irrelevant as its lead singer has garnered a bad reputation with women. I think we are heading into a period where your personal life does matter in your career as a celebrity. 
Mustafa Kemal Added May 6, 2018 - 11:06am
Flying Junior, Yes I do,  Revolution 1 and  Revolution #9 was on the White Album and Revolution 2 was on the back of the Hey Jude 45.
The White Album changed our lives.
I remember a music store in Fairfax Virgina which had a whole wall of 45s hung on these little poles. When you wanted to buy one that was far up, they got out a ladder and went up and fetched it for you.
Bought my copy of Hey Jude there, using money I earned from my Washington Post paper route.
George N Romey Added May 6, 2018 - 4:47pm
Some of the biggest stars of yesterday were down right sick individuals but the “machine” protected them. At least today they can be brought to justice.
wsucram15 Added May 6, 2018 - 5:26pm
Sorry guys couldn't answer all day yesterday, log in did not work.  great comments though.
Bill Kamps..you are correct, it has alot to do with a persons character BEFORE fame. However as a person who has sat backstage, in recording studios..and toured. I promise you that even the steadfast and honorable is pushed in directions they dont want to be.  However, it is their foundation that will bring them back..just like anyone else.
Im not sure all entertainers feel entitled. Ive met a few that use that to help people, they are aware and use that to benefit others. Im sure it affects each person differently, I suppose it depends on the level of fame as well.
As far as my defense, or lack thereof, of John Lennon.  Im not going to apologize to the things he did personally and how I feel about those things in any way.
Do I dislike him or discount his lyrical or musical genius for that..not in any way and I think I have said that.
Now as far as Michael B..why would I reprimand him?  He feels that people have put Lennon on a pedestal and should not have based on his behavior. Its his opinion.  
All I can say to that..AND I JUST DID..is there are far worse in musical history and just as if not more admired. Im sure the list is much much longer than the few I mentioned on here. People are pretty sick and disgusting when they want to be..
In any event..The Beatles are most likely one of my all time favorite bands for many reasons and Lennon is one of them. I have listened to every song, played some of them on the drums, learned one or two on guitar(my fingers are short so its hard to play) and I have many memories with friends to their music, even though I was just a kid when it came out.  But I have been listening to them since I was very young. 
Also I have stood in front of the sealed  bag from the hospital with Lennon's bloody clothes, where you can see his dried blood.  I have seen his broken bloody glasses from that night in December and his round glasses he so often wore.  There is so much to see from that evening.  Its one thing to talk about, its another to see it. All I can say about that is everyone has a right to answer for their wrongs to the people that they have wronged.   He never got the chance and the people he left behind will never have closure.
wsucram15 Added May 6, 2018 - 6:26pm
ok..how about these songs from artists who had to write them.."date rape", "closer", "last resort","south of heaven"(good song),"I cum blood", "Stan", "daddy", "return of da baby killa", "house of 1000 corpses","Kim", "Dance with the devil"(ive talked about this one before- you will never forget it)
People are sick..and some of this is real or thought up of real things and expanded upon.  Plus these are all big hits for the artists who wrote them.  So is it them..really?
Flying Junior Added May 7, 2018 - 1:52am
Thanks for the link Mustafa.  Yet another masterpiece of editing.
But beyond the fat tube amp fuzz tone of the electric guitars, the thing that really sets that version apart is the raucous electric piano.  I'm guessing it was Paul McCartney on the piano, but hell, anyone can play the piano, right?
When I was a young musician still cutting my teeth, I hooked up with a damn good bass player who became a good friend.  His whole thing was Paul McCartney.  Later I learned how it was the young guy who taught his mates all of the chords to the great Little Richard songs and whatnot.  All of those guys were pretty good at figuring out guitar chords.  But McCartney was the professor of rocknroll.
When McCartney was in Los Angeles, I fantasized about being the guy that got to play the grand piano on, "A Day in the Life."
wsucram15 Added May 7, 2018 - 2:29am
Paul McCartney was outstanding live.  Not the same as seeing the Beatles I guess..but outstanding all the same.
Stone-Eater Added May 7, 2018 - 5:17am
I figured that McCartney is a pretty good bass player when I heard "Silly Love Songs" in a live version....I mean that bassline is just fantastic (and without slapping LOL)
Stone-Eater Added May 7, 2018 - 5:18am
anyone can play the piano, right?
Not really, as in all instruments. Anyone can learn to replay stuff, but to CREATE something needs more than that - on any instrument.
Flying Junior Added May 7, 2018 - 5:27am
Paul McCartney could play guitar just as well as George Harrison.  My contention is that Paul was teaching chords to George.  Before the death of Harrison, Paul, George and Ringo made a film together.  Maybe you have seen it?  It's one of those rockumentaries.  For some of the video they are in a studio.  They are both playing steel-string guitars.  Another sequence was shot outdoors on a grassy lawn.  Harrison and McCartney are clearly both effortless masters of the instrument.  McCartney understood that one guy had to play bass.  So he took it on.
Stone-Eater Added May 7, 2018 - 5:54am
Right, I've seen that too. Actually I think Paul was the mastermind behind almost all successful Beatles' songs. He plays guitar, bass and piano. But actually almost everyone who plays in a band is sooner or later capable to play more than one instrument when the interest is there.
Stone-Eater Added May 7, 2018 - 5:56am
BTW: I've started with piano, then took on guitar, and after some years on guitar I figured I can play bass to a certain degree. And it worked. Drums - well - I can keep a 4/4 simple rhythm, but that's about it....
Jeffry Gilbert Added May 7, 2018 - 1:54pm
wsucram15 Added May 7, 2018 - 2:18pm
Paul also plays most instruments..if you have watched the Foo fighters recordings with him, he plays the drums as well. Which stands to reason..
Ive also seen the video of the three of them..
Stone-Eater Added May 7, 2018 - 2:20pm
Musicians aren't bigger assholes that we all are. They're just more in focus :-) Black sheep are everywhere. BTW: Why do we define black as evil, and white as good ? Hmmmm LOL
Mustafa Kemal Added May 7, 2018 - 9:34pm
Stone Eater, have you tried your hand at any African instruments?
Im working on the Turkish Ney now. Havent started making music yet, still working on making reasonable sounds. 
Flying Junior,
re:"When McCartney was in Los Angeles, I fantasized about being the guy that got to play the grand piano on, "A Day in the Life.""
Extremely impressive tune. 
Mustafa Kemal Added May 7, 2018 - 9:36pm
Jeffrey Gilbert, dont tell me, Johnny Cash was human too?
wsucram15 Added May 7, 2018 - 11:21pm
Now I didnt list Johnny Cash because he was ridiculously obvious, same as Ray Charles or Ike Tuner.  Sly Stone is another good one
Mustafa.. A Day in the life is indeed an incredible song.
wsucram15 Added May 7, 2018 - 11:39pm
Actually if you are going to give anyone credit for the Beatles albums..George Martin is a name that stands out. 
You know there are other theories about the Beatles and their music, some people say they never wrote not one lick of it.  But it doesnt matter none of them own the rights to it anyway, Sony does..although Paul is still trying to regain his share of his work.
wsucram15 Added May 7, 2018 - 11:49pm
Sorry he settled that suit and as of October owns 260 of the Beatles Songs.
Stone-Eater Added May 8, 2018 - 3:09am
Stone Eater, have you tried your hand at any African instruments?
Yep. The Kora is too complicated, but I've played the Ngoni, a very basic guitar that ranges from 1 string to four. Amplified with distortion you can play hard rock with it LOL
Mark Hunter Added May 8, 2018 - 3:23am
One thing many people never figure out is that having talent in one or more areas of entertainment doesn't make anyone particularly better, or more intelligent, than the average Joe. Nor does it necessarily make them more knowledgeable about the world in general. I doubt it necessarily makes them a worse person, either, but it probably presents them with more temptations and opportunities to be worse.
Eric Reports Added May 8, 2018 - 2:42pm
I don't agree with Lennon's politics, but he was a brilliant musician.  Mark David Chapman robbed the world of a genius.  Also, sometimes good people do bad things.
wsucram15 Added May 8, 2018 - 6:49pm
SEF...I knew that..super cool.
Eric..great summation...
Mark..we are all the same. Always.
Adolf Dick McMenace Added May 8, 2018 - 11:18pm
I've read here statements made by a couple of people that say the same thing: "Oh, well, they were people, too.", or, "You mean, they aren't human, too." Hmmm. All I can say is that, if I started to scream at a co-worker at the top of my lungs and start to beat on him and/or her because they failed to follow some simple instruction and/or looked at me wrong, I would fully expect to be not only unemployed by the end of the day, but definitely jailed and probably sued by the end of the week.
Flying Junior, I was SO HAPPY to see you so upset! Fuck you too, and I hope the main mast of your dream boat goes up through your ass and out of your mouth Cannibal Holocaust style, loool! As a matter of sporting interest, when's the last time you got your ass physically kicked?
Flying Junior Added May 9, 2018 - 3:31am
I didn't say fuck you.  Check Stone's latest post for that.
Flying Junior Added May 9, 2018 - 3:35am
Quit typing the name of the goddam murderer.  Pay goddam attention.
Stone-Eater Added May 9, 2018 - 12:51pm
I think I've made myself some new enemies here with my latest emotional "article" LOL
wsucram15 Added May 9, 2018 - 10:45pm
Why..people are allowed to express themselves. I dont like things many people say OFTEN.  But you need to give them a chance to explain.  Did you know Lennon personally? If so I can see you taking up for him as a friend.  But he is well known to have done some bad things to people close to him.  They still loved him just the same but thats within his circle of people.  But my article was about ALL famous people, not just him.
Why would you attack each other over someone you do not know?  Ive met some pretty famous people, spoken with some, I would not defend most of them.
I did that once but I was wrong, and I wont do it again.
Stone-Eater Added May 10, 2018 - 2:38pm
Who cares about Lennon's character anyway ? He made good music. There are a lot of assholes around which can't produce anything lasting that people LIKE but are nothing but - assholes. 
Stone-Eater Added May 10, 2018 - 2:38pm
Stone-Eater Added May 10, 2018 - 2:40pm
??? The site really has problems. Comments just whoops disappear until you reload and see them. Sorry. Not Lennon's fault LOL
opher goodwin Added May 12, 2018 - 4:17am
Hi Jeanne - nice one. Personally I think that power and adulation corrupts. It always has. That's what happens to politicians and Rock Stars.
You just scratched the surface. Even the most unlikely, such as Peter Noone and Hucknell turn out to be sex addicts.
Does it matter if the people were unpleasant? Yes it does. Nobody can condone abuse. Some of those people were abusive.
Lennon was fucked up by the death of his mother and the weird relationship with his aunt. It gave him a bit of a nasty streak that came out in unpleasant ways. He particularly directed it at the disabled. When he was drunk he was unpleasant. But that should not detract from his good side. He was capable of great acts of kindness.
No sensible person could possibly say that the Beatles weren't groundbreaking, a superb band and produced some outstanding music that was right at the cutting edge.
Music isn't about tribalism (I like the Stones so I can't like the Beatles) - that's just daft. We all have our favourite bands and styles but that doesn't mean you can't like everyone else too. I loved the Beatles, Stones, Who, Kinks, Doors, Sex Pistols, Stranglers, Frank Zappa, Captain Beefheart, White Stripes, Nirvana, Dylan, Roy Harper, Nick Harper, Stiff Little Fingers, and a few hundred others.
Some of those guys in those bands were obnoxious. But Lennon wasn't. He at least had the guts to stand up and speak his mind. He put his reputation on the line to oppose the Vietnam War and to stand up for Women's Rights and Justice. It's a shame there aren't a lot more like him. If he was alive now I like to think that he'd be saying a few things about the shit that's going down!!
opher goodwin Added May 12, 2018 - 4:37am
I'm sure having problems leaving comments. And I can't sign in!
opher goodwin Added May 12, 2018 - 6:07am
I see Michael B removed my reply to his article!!!
James Travil Added May 13, 2018 - 3:37am
"John Phillips of the Mamas and Papas had an incestuous relationship with his daughter Mackenzie Phillips as a young girl."
From what I've heard she was a legally consenting adult at the time, and did in fact consent. Thus no crime in my book, and likewise in many states. If she had Christianity inspired "buyers remorse" after the fact that is entirely on her for betraying her relationship with her father. That is the part that disqusts me, her actions not her famous dad. 
wsucram15 Added May 14, 2018 - 12:50am
I disagree James, she did drugs with him (he shot her up) and that was consensual. However, she was unconscious for their first sexual encounter and she considered it rape at first then a plea for his attention.  If you arent taught any differently why not?
A young girl of 18 who admires her famous father will do quite a bit apparently.  I dont condone it, but there is no way you could possibly justify what he did.
Opher.. as always making sense but wasnt trying to cut toooo deep.. Just making a point. Lennon was a talent not often rivaled and as a fan of his, I was sad to learn he was only human after all.  You know? As a  person with a disability all my life, I saw the video..it was disheartening. It is however, something people do that lack understanding or a level of empathy for people.  How could you understand a disability if you have never suffered one?  But what he did that upset me, was treat his son with such disregard, which is a real shame.
You are most likely right about him and now though..lol.
James Travil Added May 14, 2018 - 1:20am
" I dont condone it, but there is no way you could possibly justify what he did." 
I don't justify it anymore than I justify homosexuality, which I put in the same catagory as consensual adult incest. Decadent and unnatural, but I tolerate both equally among consenting adults. What I don’t condon is someone who after the fact and after her partner is dead comes out against him. This is famial betral of the highest order and without possible justification. If she had a case she wouldn't have waited until her father was dead and unable to get his side of the story out. 
wsucram15 Added May 14, 2018 - 1:56am
Ok..true, I dont like the circumstance but you make a great point.
Adolf Dick McMenace Added May 16, 2018 - 9:08am
"I see Michael B removed my reply to his article!!!"
No I didn't, Gopher Badlose. As much as I'd enjoy seeing YOU deleted, I would leave your comments for all to see. You do all of my dirty work for me, you Limey, or should I say LIE-mey fruit loop.