Four Legs Good, Two Legs Bad, One Leg Best

My Recent Posts

After ousting the human peasant from George Orwell's Animal Farm the victors learnt from history: "Four legs good, two legs bad." It looks like a reasonable command and for a while the animals stuck to it. Only brute humans believe that there might be better safeguards against tyranny than counting legs.

 

After the world defeated Hitler we also learnt from history: "No more." No more what? Well, that changed. It was "no more war", but because German military today aids and partakes in other countries' military actions, it was softened to "no more war breaking from German ground", whatever that means.

 

This "whatever that means" made its way into other lessons of history. "No more Auschwitz", whatever that means. One would not expect another mass murder near or on the site of Auschwitz ever again. But why does it not explicitely state, 'No more mass murder'?

 

The lesson from history requires a consensus from the people. Four legs good, two legs bad - unless you have wings. It would be easy to condemn all mass murder when there had been a consent in post war Germany. However, for decades, long into the 70s Mao was cool, Ho Chi Minh was supported, Lenin was ambiguous. Some. Some could not condemn mass murder.

 

To appease those who could not bring themselves to condemn mass murders as they come, we gave the two legs wings. The holocaust, we were told, was an 'industrial mass murder' - whatever that means. However, those who cannot bring themselves to condemn mass murder expanded "never again" to "never again fascism" - whatever that means.

 

It is unlikely that another political movement would name itself after the movements of Mussolini and of Hitler both of which shared very little between themselves and share even much less with political groups today. "Fascism", we were told, was about abortion laws, opposition to gay marriage, restricting immigration and disagreeing with the EU. "Never again", we learn from those who cannot bring themselves to condemn all mass murders, is followed up with generally disagreeing with them.

 

"Never again right-wing."

 

I'm still unable to find a quote of any historical Nazi that identifies himself as "right-wing" or as "conservative." Abundant are the quotes of high-ranking Nazis, including Hitler, that identifies them as left-wing, socialist, anti-capitalist and revolutionary. Of the name of Hitler's party NSDAP, only the N could be agreed on to be problematic. It was the National(N) Socialist (S) German (D) Workers' (A) Party (P). Only the Nation could be agreed upon to be evil and only supranational bodies like the United Nations could alleviate the stain of two legs.

 

Societies change through rote learning. The repeated messages embody what was agreed upon at the time when a lesson had to be learnt. Four legs good, nation bad. To adjust the obviously moronic pillars of common morals, a society needs public figures that openly debate, the intellectuals or talking heads.

 

The word intellectual induces too much awe for some and what a nation needs is not a genius. By proxy of Milo Yiannopolous' incursion into American pop culture, a rather strange debate contribution was laid on the table: "Do we want to cheer this?" The question was formulated by Reality TV star Katie Hopkins and it cuts through moral philosophy like a red-glowing blade through a block of butter. She used the phrase at first when it was only about unimportant things (a reality TV star - mind you). When somebody shows his tattoo, his piercing or the bodily result of his fatty diet to you, do you laud him for his bravery, do you show discomfort or do you make clear that this is not your business?

 

The underlying psychological trait Katie Hopkins so prominently displays is a lack of 'agreeableness'. Can we agree to disagree? In a healthy society we can. But are we a healthy society? Hopkins and by extension Milo did not have to be geniuses to highlight this basic question and to make an important contribution to the debate at a time when it was needed.

 

In a climate of fear, fewer people come to contribute to the public discussion. The public realm is filled with trite propagandists. The quietness left by those who got bored with the lies is often followed by the noise of conspiracy theories. Nobody, it seems, has an explanation of what is going on.

 

 

But there comes a novel, a piece of art. Monika Maron, who fell out with the dictatorship in Eastern Germany when she worked as a journalist and novelist at the time, is back. And she visits the few Youtubers and some few media outlets that can bring themselves to listen to a conservative.

 

"Munin or Chaos in the Head" is the name of her new novel. The protagonist is an author who stays awake at night because a crazy 'singer' is disrupting the neighbourhood during the usual working hours of the day. She writes at night. The novel shows her attempt to pen an essay on the Thirty Years' War.

 

The silence of the night let's the chaos talk, the chaos all Germans have in their heads right now. Doesn't the Thirty Years' War resemble Syria? Don't all parties of a war come with bulk immigration? Why do the elites do this? Is everybody becoming crazy? Do the do-gooders or the conspiracy theorists have less chaos in their heads? Do they have anything in their heads?

 

A one-legged crow appears.  The protagonist lures him into her home, names him Munin and starts a dialogue with him. The crow argues with her, is part of the chaos, gets uncomfortable. Wouldn't it be better if we were animals and could let die what cannot live? Can humans be reasonable given that they think of G-d as somebody in their own image and then lose faith in him? And most importantly: Do humans always, always learn the wrong things from history?

Monika Maron's Jewish grandfather Pawel Iglarz was murdered by the Nazis in 1942.

 

 

Comments

Neil Lock Added May 8, 2018 - 3:04pm
Benjamin: we also learnt from history: "No more." I think you're wrong there. "We" (whatever that means) can't learn. Only individuals can learn. The effect you're describing, I think, comes about because of politically controlled media. And many of those that desire such control are wannabe successors to Mao, Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot.
 
Anyway, to get back to your title and to make a bit of fun, here's a small comment the Darn-Poor Rhymer made on this very forum a couple of months back:
 
Four legs good, two legs bad.
Six legs better. We've been had!
Eight legs best for Spiderman.
But with ten digits, you are Man.
Dave Volek Added May 8, 2018 - 4:14pm
Benjamin
 
The Wikipedia article tries to define fascism for us. And even that definition is confusing. I found it interesting that the article said that fascists are opposed to communists, yet both systems adhere to strong government control.
 
And you are correct: it is unlikely any political movement will call itself fascist in these days: the term has acquired a bad connotation.
 
Were the Nazis left or right? It depends on how you look at things. Quite often the left/right labels don't explain everything.
 
And just as there are different kinds of socialists and different kinds of libertarians, there are probably different kinds of fascists (under another name) who aspire to some kind of authoritarian government.
 
---
 
On another note, I don't recall too many western people cheering for Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.
 
And yes, the Moslem world is going through the same trials as the Christian world 500 years ago.
Benjamin Goldstein Added May 8, 2018 - 4:48pm
Thanks, Neil your poem has legs.
 
Dave, the Thirty Years' War started 400 years ago, in 1618. I'm afraid that particularly Mao was a big thing in Europe in the 1960s, particularly in Germany. Stalin had a popular run in France (think of Sartre). Both at the height of the 'student' protests.
John Wagner Added May 8, 2018 - 4:48pm
Fascism came from Mussolini's Italy. It was a political party. Over time, Nazism also got included as fascist. Not wrongly; Nazism was basically Fascism with anti-Semitic nonsense added. 
In more recent decades, fascism has become a slur to hurl that means almost anything. It's often viewed as right-wing. Many people have this desire to balance things off, thinking socialism is left-wing and fascism is right-wing. 
However, fascism and socialism are far more similar than different. German Nazis and Russian socialists clashed in the 1930s not because they were so different, but because politicians like to have opponents, and they like to blame their country's problems on foreigners. So, it was blame those Bolsheviks!! Hitler also didn't like Russian interference in WWI Germany. etc. etc. 
 
But make no mistake, both fascism and socialism are totalitarian, with all that implies. Both required the State to grow in power and the individual to shrink. The individual only existed to serve the State. The State controlled the economy, whether through public ownership or government control of privately-owned businesses.
Left-wing/right-wing, and liberal/conservative are imprecise terms. But if we have to fit them into that model, both fascism and socialism are left-wing. 
Dave Volek Added May 8, 2018 - 5:45pm
Benjamin
 
As a young adult, Canadian journalist Jan Wong went back to China to take part in the new utopia in the 1960s. She left that movement after about a year. She wrote a book about it called Red China Blues, which included her coverage of the Tinamen Massacre.
 
 
Whatever popular support these dictators had in the west quickly evaporated as history revealed itself. I see it as disenfranchised citizens turning to new movements as they crop up. If the disenfranchised are few or not that committed, the movement dies within a decade.
 
A wise government should work to minimize the disenfranchised of society. Otherwise, a revolution is simmering.
 
 
 
James Travil Added May 8, 2018 - 7:32pm
" I found it interesting that the article said that fascists are opposed to communists, yet both systems adhere to strong government control."
The right to left line is not straight. It is curved like a horseshoe with the two extremes (communism and fascism) actually fairly close to each other. But to clarify communism is the government controlling businesses. Whereas fascism is corporations controlling the government. So while on the surface they may appear to be the same, they are in fact opposites just with a lot in common. Whatever that means. 
James Travil Added May 8, 2018 - 7:35pm
As for the Nazis while those of the 1930's-1940's may have been nebulous in their left-right alignment  all Nazis today consider themselves Right-Wing, alt right is often used to describe them. Never anything to do with the left. That alone makes it obvious to me (plus what I learned in school about Nazis). 
Dave Volek Added May 9, 2018 - 12:13am
James
The horseshoe is a nice analogy! 
 
It is my understanding the that Nazi government told the corporations what they were going to make and paid them for making it. I'm not seeing a lot of difference between total state control. But it is interesting to note how many German corporations from pre-WW2 are still in operation today.
 
 
Doug Plumb Added May 9, 2018 - 9:06am
re " Whereas fascism is corporations controlling the government."
 
Fascism occurs when corporations control governments is what Moussolini said.
  In these times corporations do not control governments. Both corporations and governments are controlled by the banks. Step off that reservation and they are toast.
  Animal Farm is a good movie to introduce kids to some of the ideas behind politics, its a good story, but not complete. It was probably created to make young people more interested in politics.
  Fascism should have four letters so that it can be one of those four letter words that is so versatile in polemic discussions.
Doug Plumb Added May 9, 2018 - 9:08am
When you get a government that exceeds a rational mandate of protecting commerce and preserving the common law, you will get fascism.
Riley Brown Added May 9, 2018 - 9:43am
 Most empires and great countries self destruct because their leadership slowly becomes more focused their own self interests than making sure the traditions and values that made the empire successful in the first place, are enforced and respected into the future.
 
Animal Farm was no exception, eventually they morphed and lost sight of their founding principals, saying, "all animals are equal but some are more equal than others".
 
The US became great by allowing all it's citizens maximize latitude to do whatever they wanted as long as they were not doing serious damage to other people.  They minimized government involvement in the people's lives to the point where they didn't have any regular government oversight or even a Federal income tax until WW2.  Today every facet of our lives is controlled, and even many of the personal freedoms our founding fathers tried to secure in the Constitution have been infringed upon by zealous courts willing to ignore the Constitution when it suites their purpose.  We now have taxes that replace traditional charities so that we can force our citizens to support causes they might not otherwise approve of and fund, and even mass redistribution so that people who don't feel like working don't have to. 
 
A far cry from when everyone had an opportunity to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.
John Wagner Added May 9, 2018 - 9:58am
I find it interesting how leftists run away from fascism being leftist. Fascism is government control of businesses, not the other way around! Government tries to manage production, set prices, etc. 
Merriam-Webster definition of fascism: "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition." 
That sounds quite a bit like socialism. Because fascism and socialism are quite similar! Where is the major difference? It is undeniably true that both fascism and socialism are about giving more power to Big Government, and taking it from the individual. That is what we call left-wing. 
Benjamin Goldstein Added May 9, 2018 - 12:31pm
Hm, the text is about how we as a society do learn the wrong things and why that is. I try to address your remarks. Thx for commenting:
 
Wagner: I think that indeed we have a problem when the left does not acknowledge its own thought traditions that ran through political movements of the past, including fascism. Some of the very ideas of today were already present hundreds of years ago and it would be honest if the left could acknowledge that. Unfortunately, they need moral cleanness. I can frankly admit that my values, e.g. my support for the military, were partly responsible for bad things like the World Wars. The left does not have a three-dimensional self-reflection.
 
Dave: The support for genocidal regimes was substantial enough for long enough to form the morals as described above. Don't you agree?
 
Travil: Thx for commenting. I hope somebody can glean more insight from them than I can.
 
Doug:
Fascism occurs when corporations control governments is what Moussolini said.
Could you drop me a link to a reliable source that shows when and where Mussolini has said or written that? I have doubts.
 
Riley: Yes, the sheer power of corruption is voiding the lessons once learnt, too. I also think that during the American Revolution men had the best, least ideological oversight over history and the systems of government and many of the lessons learnt back then are worth keeping. How does one unearth them again.
Stone-Eater Added May 9, 2018 - 2:21pm
As far as I can see: For the moment the US/EU is the most "fascist" region there is, when we take for measure that the will to dominate defines fascism.....
Doug Plumb Added May 9, 2018 - 4:17pm
@Benjamin re "Fascism occurs when corporations control governments is what Moussolini said.
Could you drop me a link to a reliable source that shows when and where Mussolini has said or written that? I have doubts."
 
I've seen it but know it because a history guy who specialized in ww2 told me that a long time ago.
Doug Plumb Added May 9, 2018 - 4:18pm
Its the truth though Benjamin. Fascism is just collectivism and top down control requires a certain amount. Once the gov goes beyond its common law responsibilities, it must adopt some fascism to get everyone to go along. I'm going to do a post to explain the reasoning of this.
Doug Plumb Added May 9, 2018 - 4:24pm
Fascii is a collection of sticks with a string wrapped around them.
John Wagner Added May 9, 2018 - 4:38pm
Doug, pretty sure it's govt controlling corporations. 
 
If it helps, here's my thought on collectivism and coercion:
In the early days of collectivism, it's all sunshine and optimism, and everyone goes along. Then, when the economy is inevitably not performing well and dreams are not being fulfilled, some people start to rebel.
Collectivist governments can't allow much rebellion or dissent, so they crack down with imprisonment, labor camps, even murder. This draws the attention of other citizens whose mother, father, uncle, brother go missing. They then want to rebel at the oppression, and the govt must oppress them. Rinse, wash, repeat. 
 
Some people like to say that socialism will work. It just hasn't been done properly. Socialism is a shining dream, and thugs like Stalin, Pol Pot, Castro, etc have perverted the dream. No. No. No. Socialism may look good in theory, but in the real world it always gets leaders like those. It's no accident. Only thugs are willing to imprison and murder their fellow citizens for having different beliefs. 
Benjamin Goldstein Added May 9, 2018 - 4:58pm
Doug: I seriously question that quote. It is impossible to prove a negative. I cannot present all documents and films showing Mussolini's talks and writings to prove that he didn't say it. I also don't care about third parties opining on it. I want the quote. Professors also lie.
 
all: In general the debate on fascism is interesting, but may I suggest an excellent piece + debate by and with Jeff Kelly:
http://www.writerbeat.com/articles/20741-Fascism-What-Was-It-
Just upvote the article to continue this particular conversation.
 
I appreciate your thoughts on the text above. How can societies learn? How do we ensure that they learn sensible lessons? And further what Riley added: How can we remember lessons that proved successful over time?
Jeffrey Kelly Added May 9, 2018 - 5:55pm
@John Wagner:
”I find it interesting how leftists run away from fascism being leftist. Fascism is government control of businesses, not the other way around! Government tries to manage production, set prices, etc. 
Merriam-Webster definition of fascism: "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition." 
That sounds quite a bit like socialism. Because fascism and socialism are quite similar! Where is the major difference? It is undeniably true that both fascism and socialism are about giving more power to Big Government, and taking it from the individual. That is what we call left-wing.“
 
Benjamn posted a link about an article I wrote about it.
 
Suffice it to say I look at Fascism as a right-wing ideology, not left.  I guess if we want to continue this discussion we can do it there.
John Wagner Added May 9, 2018 - 6:44pm
Sorry, Jeffrey. I skimmed that article and don't see anything new to persuade me that fascism is right-wing. The only two things people seem to come up with are:
1) Socialist govt seizes private property as compared to Fascist govt allowing private property but telling people how they can use it. 
2) Socialism is international while fascism is nationalistic. 
 
Regarding #1, this is a difference that makes no difference to me. Both governments exert powerful control over the means of production. 
Regarding #2, this is true in theory more than practice. Yes, socialism had some internationalism. However, the Russians still stressed their Russian-ness. Stalin called WWII the Great Patriotic War. The Chinese still thought they were the Middle Kingdom. Even if this is a difference between fascism and socialism, it's not much of a difference. 
Jeffrey Kelly Added May 9, 2018 - 7:17pm
@John Wagner:
”1) Socialist govt seizes private property as compared to Fascist govt allowing private property but telling people how they can use it. 
2) Socialism is international while fascism is nationalistic.
 
“Regarding #1, this is a difference that makes no difference to me. Both governments exert powerful control over the means of production.”
 
We are talking about what lies at the heart of Communism and what is at the heart of Fascism.
 
Fascism uses capitalism for its goals, Communism simply banishes capitalism.
 
I don’t look at Fascism as based upon any type of economics, truth be told.  Hitler simply didn’t care as long as his rearmament occurred.  Capitalism worked side by side with National Socialism, private companies signed contracts and made profits.  This simply didn’t happen in the USSR or Communist China.
 

“Regarding #2, this is true in theory more than practice. Yes, socialism had some internationalism. However, the Russians still stressed their Russian-ness. Stalin called WWII the Great Patriotic War. The Chinese still thought they were the Middle Kingdom. Even if this is a difference between fascism and socialism, it's not much of a difference.”
 
Yet Communism at its base is predicated on the ideas of Marx and Lenin.  Fascism never had that at its base, each variety was unique to its country of origin.
 
Fascism closely parallels Classic Conservatism in the idea of the state as an organic whole.
 
 
James Travil Added May 9, 2018 - 8:24pm
"I find it interesting how leftists run away from fascism being leftist. Fascism is government control of businesses, not the other way around! Government tries to"
Wrong and wrong again! That is interesting considering that I am a moderate centrist not a "leftist". In fact most of my world view is best described as right wing. Yet I know what actual fascists is. And guess where I learned it? From a conservative Baptist Christian high school. But they weren't extremists and realized the dangers of extremism in all things, unlike some here.
Benjamin Goldstein Added May 10, 2018 - 3:12am
I also consider fascism as centrist. I would upvote Kelly's article again so the discussion can be continued there. Everybody can only upvote once. So one of you (including Jeff btw) could do it. Thx.
 
Hey, how do you guys feel about our ability to learn from history? Is partisan bickery an obstacle? Your thoughts:
James Travil Added May 10, 2018 - 3:21am
Incidentally I'm a big fan of Neil's short poem up early in this thread. Especially the part about eight legs. But then again I really like spiders. Funny that I'm not much of a Spiderman fan though. 
Stone-Eater Added May 10, 2018 - 6:34am
Ben
 
Hey, how do you guys feel about our ability to learn from history?
 
Dumme Frage. We don't learn. History has proven it. If a generation would span 250 instead of 25 years, we maybe would. Because then we would have to LIVE with out decisions for quite some time.
Stone-Eater Added May 10, 2018 - 6:35am
OUR decisions, sorry :-)
Doug Plumb Added May 10, 2018 - 7:23am
Benjamin re "Doug: I seriously question that quote. It is impossible to prove a negative. I cannot present all documents and films showing Mussolini's talks and writings to prove that he didn't say it. I also don't care about third parties opining on it. I want the quote. Professors also lie."
 
See picture  of the fasci. The idea has been around long before Moussolini. Its simply another word for collectivism.
 
Doug Plumb Added May 10, 2018 - 7:26am
To see how words have been changed, see this definition of personality
 
A person is one with agency, an ability to act wrt right and wrong. Good personality used to mean good morals, now it means telling jokes, etc. Personhood means agency of the individual. By agency, I do not mean travel agency.
Our language has been under attack for 200 years or more.
Benjamin Goldstein Added May 10, 2018 - 8:00am
Doug: Just say that he didn't say it.
Doug Plumb Added May 10, 2018 - 9:03am
I've seen the quote somewhere - you have to remember he said it in Italian, not English so there is likely more than one translation. Only someone who can read Italian can say for sure. The point is that fascism has been around since before the USA was formed. Its not new. You could call Plato's Republic a book about fascism although the word was not around. Its a simple concept and obvious once you see a fascii.
Doug Plumb Added May 10, 2018 - 9:04am
Corporations begin controlling governments, people interpret and speak of the effect. The effect is fascism.
Benjamin Goldstein Added May 10, 2018 - 9:13am
Doug: Track it down. He must have said or written it somewhere. Yes, I want to read the original Italian quote.
John Wagner Added May 10, 2018 - 12:35pm
Fascism has been considered right-wing because the communist left labeled it as such. And Western leftists were happy to back away from it when it became more embarrassing. But before the brutality became known, many American leftists praised Mussolini and Hitler. Just as they praised socialists Stalin, Castro, Chavez. Because leftists like strong government that "gets things done." 
Both Hitler and Mussolini were nationalists, so they pushed nationalism rather than internationalism. But they pushed what they called national socialism
Mussolini quotes: "Socialism is in my blood." "I am and shall remain a socialist and my convictions will never change!" "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State." 
Italian Fascists wanted to expand government to smash 'economic royalists' and help the 'little guy.' Slogan: "The land to him who works it!" 
When Mussolini was captured in 1945, his aide shouted, "Long live Mussolini! Long live socialism!" 
The Nazi Party platform called for "communalization of department stores," universal education, guaranteed employment, nationalization of industries, abolition of interest, abolition of child labor, entitlements for the aged, gun control, expansion of health services, and expropriation without compensation. 
Nazis specifically aimed to attract German communists to the Nazi party. That's why part of the Nazi flag was red. Hitler talked about it in Mein Kampf. 
Committed Marxist Karl Radek: "Fascism is middle-class Socialism." 
 
There is so much more, but enough. Fascism and socialism are quite similar, and they both fall onto the leftist side of things. 
But I don't really like the labels left and right, anyway. I prefer to think of a spectrum, with anarchy on one end and totalitarian govt on the other. And clearly both fascism and socialism fall on the totalitarian end. 
Dino Manalis Added May 10, 2018 - 12:42pm
Instead of counting legs, we need morals and values in our policies!
Jeffrey Kelly Added May 10, 2018 - 1:52pm
@John Wagner:
”Fascism has been considered right-wing because the communist left labeled it as such. And Western leftists were happy to back away from it when it became more embarrassing. But before the brutality became known, many American leftists praised Mussolini and Hitler.”
 
Just like many on the European right praised Hitler and Mussolini.  
 
“Both Hitler and Mussolini were nationalists, so they pushed nationalism rather than internationalism. But they pushed what they called national socialism.”
 
Do you know how Hitler defined a “Socialist?”
 
“Mussolini quotes: "Socialism is in my blood." "I am and shall remain a socialist and my convictions will never change!" "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State." 
 
That’s quite enlightening.  Mussolini started as a Socialist but abandoned it, Hitler hated both Socialists and Communists.

“Italian Fascists wanted to expand government to smash 'economic royalists' and help the 'little guy.' Slogan: "The land to him who works it!" 
When Mussolini was captured in 1945, his aide shouted, "Long live Mussolini! Long live socialism!" 
 
How did the Italian economy work under Mussolini?

“The Nazi Party platform called for "communalization of department stores," universal education, guaranteed employment, nationalization of industries, abolition of interest, abolition of child labor, entitlements for the aged, gun control, expansion of health services, and expropriation without compensation.”
 
Ah, yes, the “25 Points.”  Tell me, how many of those points were put into practice?

“Nazis specifically aimed to attract German communists to the Nazi party.”
 
Is this why the Nazis tosssed both Socialists and Communists into concentration camps after Hitler became Chancellor?
 
“That's why part of the Nazi flag was red. Hitler talked about it in Mein Kampf.”
 
Did you ever read Mein Kampf?


 “There is so much more, but enough. Fascism and socialism are quite similar, and they both fall onto the leftist side of things.”
 
Sorry, you are wrong.  I don’t really think this is the appropriate place to discuss it, I don’t want to clutter up Benjamin’s article.  If you want to discuss this more I suggest taking it to the article I wrote on it.

“But I don't really like the labels left and right, anyway. I prefer to think of a spectrum, with anarchy on one end and totalitarian govt on the other. And clearly both fascism and socialism fall on the totalitarian end.”
 
I say Communism is totalitarian but I actually do agree with much of what you said in your last paragraph.
Tom C. Purcell Added May 10, 2018 - 1:59pm
Interesting article, very nicely crafted until the end when the reader must as himself, "but to what end?"
 
In other words, aside from relating to other self-loathing Jews, which is eternally endemic amongst you, what point are you trying to make?
 
Maron seems to aim for the truth, from what little I know.  Is she supposed to automatically clutch to gas chambers and the "never again" mumbo jumbo because she has a Jewish relative?  Are you?  That's a shame if so.  I say, free yourself in the same vain as Benjamin Freedman and others who care most about the truth.
 
Thumbs up for nice writing.
Tom C. Purcell Added May 10, 2018 - 2:00pm
"reader must ask himself"
Stone-Eater Added May 10, 2018 - 2:19pm
Erm....Noam Chomsky is a Jew. And I love him. A clear mind. Just some by the way, by the way :-)
Stone-Eater Added May 10, 2018 - 2:23pm
Ben
 
BTW: Good article. And the conclusion is simple: Men do never learn. Or, at least, they are unable to give their knowledge to their young. Scheint so. Must be nature oder wir sind einfach zu dumm at some degree.
Benjamin Goldstein Added May 10, 2018 - 3:48pm
Kelly: Thank you for taking this fascism debate to your article.
 
Purcell: Nice to hear that you enjoyed the read. The point is that we need to have a discussion how we learn lessons from history so that we become better at it. Suggestions?
 
Stone-Eater: Glad that you liked it. Men have learnt a lot already. It is still frustrating how things can go down very badly again and again.
 
Tom and Stone: Freedman and Chomsky are both Jews and both assholes.
Tom C. Purcell Added May 10, 2018 - 3:51pm
"Tom and Stone: Freedman and Chomsky are both Jews and both assholes."
 
LOL.
 
Suggestions: First and foremost; acknowledge obvious lies and plain truths.  Build everything from a solid foundation.  Truth is indestructible.  Truth can be disguised, veiled, distorted and worse, but it cannot be destroyed.  That's why I say that we must build communities and civilizations on foundations of truth. 
Stone-Eater Added May 10, 2018 - 5:05pm
Ben
 
Calling someone an asshole is not an argument.
Jeffrey Kelly Added May 10, 2018 - 5:22pm
Benjamin, I won’t discuss Fascism anymore here.  Sorry for getting things sidetracked.
James Travil Added May 10, 2018 - 11:03pm
Ditto what Jeffrey said. 
 
Good article Benjamin :) 
 
And shut up Dino were counting legs here whether you like it or not! 
Benjamin Goldstein Added May 13, 2018 - 9:19am
James T: Thank you. I'm glad that you liked the article. I really liked that joke.
 
How do you guys feel about the idea that societies learn like neural networks?
 
The individual is like a cell that does not understand all of it, but reacts to the messages of other cells and the feedback of an environment. The cells in turn cluster in areas like brain regions, i.e. we form institutions. The brain as such becomes more efficient if the information transmission is fastened and cells/clusters become better connected (e.g. through the advent of the internet).
 
On the downside, can connections lead to cancerous problems? After all, cells and brain areas are specialised according to their position in the fabric of transmitting neighbouring cells and the environment, much in the same way as institutions and (sub-)cultures are specialised.
Michael B. Added May 13, 2018 - 9:27am
Good one, Benjamin! I need to re-read Animal Farm and 1984 for sure! My reply to your post actually turned into a full-blown post, lol.
Mike Haluska Added May 13, 2018 - 12:54pm
Social Justice Warriors only see the sign over the barn in "Animal Farm" as it was written in the beginning of the "revolution":

                                 ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL
 
The SJW's just haven't had the real life experience to realize they are being played and that once socialism takes hold the sign gets "revised" to reflect the reality that:
 
                                  ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL
              BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS
 
Good old "Uncle Bernie Sanders" makes lots of promises for "free" this and "free" that . . . all you have to do is surrender your individual and economic freedom to the all-knowing, all-benevolent, all-compassionate government.  You'll have a guarantee that you will be taken care of like everyone else and enjoy equality . . . that is to say you and everyone else will be "equally miserable".  Meanwhile Uncle Bernie and his cohorts are enjoying a "more equal" lifestyle at everyone else's expense!!! 
Kurt Bresler Added May 14, 2018 - 3:45am
Be careful MIKE old Uncle Bernie may run or at least run as Vice.. Anyway he was super popular but I will agree that no matter what sounds good, those in Power or getting power usually like the power and the money, so 99% get knee deep in the Swamp. 
 
I will say that according to this generation; Fascism is however they define it at the time since anything can change quickly.  
 
I think Hillary and the Oligarchy, I normally call the NWO, do have a  newfangled fascism but are still giving the old bait and switch with America,  Empower them and give them what they want for now,  get elected, then take away their power and continue on the road of ruling over all the Animal brained Americans counting on them to be "willing slaves". 
Hillary is still pissed that the majority of the Slave Nation voted for her, but she's not President.   Hillary expects  America's masses to do what she wants, still does expect it.   Her, the Dems, and the NWO are all in this together trying to control America and unfortunately someone who isn't Animal brained was Elected, Thank God, because as we, or many of us can see, he is finally doing things which Good leaders should have been doing since Clinton, that is putting the people.... at least a close second to the corporations.  Trump's America, still has people who have opinions , people who count as individuals and as a Nation. 
 
WE BETTER TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS GET OUT OF JAIL CARD immediately because the next election if the Dems win we will all be headed to Oligarchy, Fascism, Socialism, and Elite Rule as they;   give things away but expect us to work twice as hard to pay for them as in their big social projects, and .....as they use America as one of the stepping stones toward complete world domination.  Remember I told you so..k
Mike Haluska Added May 14, 2018 - 4:46pm
Kurt - very well put.  Her campaign slogan
 
                                         "I'm With Her"
 
was as narcissistic as "Heil Hitler"!!!  
James Travil Added May 14, 2018 - 7:33pm
I read somewhere that Hillary’s campaign slogan was a loser because people saw and heard it as "I'm wither" lol! Sounds about right!