Everyday Fascism

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I hear a LOT about fascism these days. Regarding fascism, the central message of it, as expressed by Mussolini, is best represented not by the swastika, but by another ancient (and authoritarian) symbol of considerably less notoriety, the fasces. Basically a bundle of sticks, Mussolini's central message was that while a single stick breaks easily, a bundle of them tightly-bound together is strong. Using that definition, you can say that any organization that wants to separate people from something, usually their money, can be "fascist". The fasces, oddly enough, is also found on the U.S. Mercury dime, a ten-cent coin minted from 1916 to 1945. Although communism and fascism are nominally polar opposites, they have much in common.

 

One time while flying from Frankfurt, Germany to LA, CA, USA, I entertained myself by reading a certain notorious underground magazine that had on its back cover a picture of a crucified Hitler being mourned by Stahlhelm-wearing “cherubs”. It didn’t take long to notice the dirty looks being shot at me by the interracial couple sitting to the (ironically) right side of the Boeing 747. They both looked like they took their fashion cues from the highlands of New Guinea, and after a while, I asked them what their problem was. “We don’t like fascists.” was the firm answer, delivered in black-and-white stereo.

 

I crack up to this day at that idiotic dual-channel statement. I love irony, and when people say things like “Don’t judge a book by its cover” do EXACTLY the same thing to me and others, it only re-affirms what I’ve known for a very long time now; namely, people are stupid, full of shit, and regardless of what they call themselves and/or others, are also nothing but so much sheep. Regarding my parrot and parakeet-colored critics, the fact that they were more “fascist” than I would ever be in at least 10,000 lifetimes never occurred to them for a microsecond, as if their conforming, crustacean-like brains could possibly process it faster.

 

My recent experience in the corporate world tells me that fascism/communism in its most classical and perverse forms are alive and well. It can be characterized as slavery in the midst of freedom, and authoritarian dictatorships in the midst of liberal democracies. One essentially surrenders their civil rights the moment they clock in, and the governance lingers long after one clocks out. Let me try to list some of the things they have in common:

 

A centralized, rigidly-bureaucratic and kleptocratic regime that values conformance above everything else.” Although you’re not paid to think, that’s never going to stop me from stealing your ideas if I think that they’re stealable.”

 

Blind obedience to orders, no matter how inane and outright stupid they are. “Me boss, you not.”

 

All of your movements and communications are closely monitored at all times, whether on or off duty. “Watch what you say and do at all times!”

 

Sham "elections" where they explicitly tell you who they want you to vote for, with subtle and not-so-subtle reminders of potential consequences if you’re not literally “politically correct”.

 

Constant bombardment of propaganda and imagery to influence you to "do things the way we want you to do them."

 

Deeply-entrenched "elites"; rampant favoritism, cronyism, nepotism, and any other "ism" you can throw in. Widespread corruption.

 

Emphasizing the "team" over the individual. You are nothing more than a cog in a horrible machine, and something for others to push and shove down, so that they may climb.

 

Unless something drastic happens, I don't see this getting any better. As stated by Arthur Jensen in the prescient 1976 movie Network, the total power and ability of corporations to control people's lives whether they are on or off the clock is growing, and they don't have a problem with that:

 

You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale, and I won't have it! Is that clear?! Do you think you've merely stopped a business deal? That is not the case. The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity! It is ecological balance! You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multi-variate, multi-national dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels. It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and sub-atomic and galactic structure of things today! And you have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and You Will Atone!

 

Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale? You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today. What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state - Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, min-max solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do. We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a collage of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable by-laws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale; it has been since man crawled out of the slime. And our children will live, Mr. Beale, to see that perfect world in which there's no war or famine, oppression or brutality - one vast and ecumenical holding company, for whom all men will work to serve a common profit, in which all men will hold a share of stock - all necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused. And I have chosen you, Mr. Beale, to preach this evangel.

Comments

Katharine Otto Added May 13, 2018 - 10:27am
Michael B.,
I get to be the first to comment?  I do believe it's coming down to the individual vs. the group, with more people waking up to the hive-like thinking of the GoverCorp monsters.  That a movie like Network could even exist proves it.  
 
Money, especially other peoples' money, seems to be the oil that greases the wheels.  Other people are the taxpayers and the customers (recently morphed into "consumers" and thus dehumanized into enormous mouths passively feeding), that serve the bottomless line.  
 
That Mercury dime you mention was at least silver.  The degradation of the coins is just one example of the degradation of values across the board, values fondly remembered by some of us.
 
I believe there's a Chinese anecdote about an emperor's son who untied the bound sticks and broke them one by one.  His individualistic approach won him the kingdom.  
 
No matter what others think of Donald Trump, I like the way he is creating chaos in the ossified systems around the world.  He is truly individualistic and defying the authoritarianism of tradition.  
Michael B. Added May 13, 2018 - 10:41am
Yes Katherine, it's all about the dough. Much like Donnie and Marie (Marie: "I'm a little bit country", Donnie: "I'm a little bit of rock and roll"), their idealogy is only a path for the ultimate goal, which is of course money and power. I wonder what Chairman Mao would think of today's China?
Katharine Otto Added May 13, 2018 - 10:59am
Michael B.,
The belief that it's all about money and power is too simplistic.  I don't want money, power, or fame, and I'm probably not alone.  Too much trouble.  Projecting that presumption on others, though, justifies acting in similar ways.  
 
I don't believe people are "stupid, full of shit," and "sheep," although it would appear that way, especially lately.  They have been intentionally misled though history, by religion and political leaders, as well as a generalized paternalistic mindset that thinks it knows what's best for everyone else.  
 
I believe more and more people are waking up and realizing they have been played for fools, that things are not what they seem.  As a result, there is a generalized anger and blame, with different targets depending on each person's individual orientation.  People don't know who or what to believe anymore, feel betrayed by everything and everyone they were taught to trust.  The result, I hope, is that more people will learn to think for themselves and to maintain a healthy skepticism about what they see and hear.
 
I would be curious, for instance, about whether you probed that couple's opinions about fascists.  Everyone might have learned something new.
Michael B. Added May 13, 2018 - 11:08am
Katherine, I hope you're right, lol. Actually, my reply to the couple's comment was that I wasn't crazy about fascists either, but they weren't the sort to hear out someone like me, and in any case, I didn't really care about them, either. I agree with you though, and when I'm truly interested, I ask someone why they feel they way they do about something.
Katharine Otto Added May 13, 2018 - 11:12am
Michael B.,
Seems we're communicating in real time.  Thanks for the quick answer.  I know what you mean about people who don't want to delve deeper.  However, you never know what people take from a conversation, and you may have pried their minds open, even if just a little bit.  At least you tried.  
Doug Plumb Added May 13, 2018 - 11:45am
Good essay, both ideas are the same.
Michael B. Added May 13, 2018 - 11:56am
Yes Katherine, whenever people aren't screaming at me for allegedly being a white-privileged, racist, sexist, homophobic, jingoistic asshole without so much as hearing a single word I may have to say, I do try on occasion. As it turns out, whenever people hate me for no apparent reason, I at least try to earn the hatred somehow, lol. I'm good to people who are good to me, and bad to people that are bad to me. A vicious cycle for sure.
Michael B. Added May 13, 2018 - 11:57am
Thanks Doug. There are the same but different, or different, yet the same.
Leroy Added May 13, 2018 - 1:05pm
You nailed it, Michael.  I may not yet be as misanthropic, but I am quickly arriving at that point.
 
Fascism is a much-overused word today.  If you say positive things about Trump, you will be labeled a fascist at some point.  The irony is those on the left don't realize how much a part it plays in their own ideology.
Jeffry Gilbert Added May 13, 2018 - 1:11pm
The irony is those on the left don't realize how much a part it plays in their own ideology.
 
Nailed it.
 
Michael B. Added May 13, 2018 - 1:14pm
@ Leroy - It's not difficult to be less misanthropic as me. However, that's makes me one of the fairest people on the planet, in that I hate just about everyone equally, lol!
MEFOBILLS Added May 13, 2018 - 2:02pm
Putin's favorite philosopher discusses Fascism:
fascism
 
Fascism is a complex phenomenon: it is multifaceted and historically speaking, far from exhausted. Within it one finds elements of health and illness, old and new, protection and destruction. Therefore in an evaluation of fascism fair-mindedness and equanimity are needed. But its dangers must be considered in full.
 
Fascism arose as a reaction to Bolshevism, as a concentration of power guarding sovereignty from the Right. As leftist chaos and totalitarianism advanced, this was a healthy phenomenon, as well as necessary and unavoidable.
 
My addition:  It is about balance and proportion.  In economic terms, Fascism is where the state directs industry.  In crony capitalism (finance capitalism) companies control the state.  
 
With fascism, if the state is elected, then it represents the people; in the case of crony capitalism, the state is unelected and hence serves special interests.  
Doug Plumb Added May 13, 2018 - 2:03pm
This is the problem with poli sci, no one knows exactly what the hell they are talking about. Giving a good definition on fascism is incredibly important. USA being a democracy is the most excellent example of this.
 
I would define fascism as communism supported by propaganda rather than at the barrel of a gun. Rockefeller praised Mao's China but China praised the USA and recognized the importance of television. The corporate types are ultimately behind communism - its a big bank agenda.
How our language is being destroyed is part of fascism because it is part of propaganda.
If we all read books that were written a hundred years ago, we would all agree on a lot more. I'm am skeptical about anything written after around 1900
Pardero Added May 13, 2018 - 4:38pm
Michael B.
Thought-provoking article. 
Fascism is an over-used word that will get 10 different definitions from any 10 people. As a perjorative term for an authoritarian dystopia, it is as good as any.
 
Historical examples of fascism would be better called Caesarism. The People giving some direction to industry, when considered necessary, would not necessarily be a bad thing. Policies are presently adopted mostly for profit, which is not always best for society. 
Our present dystopia reminds me much of the Ferengi from Star Trek TNG.
 
Corporations should exist at the pleasure of the People, and serve their interests. Libertarians and kleptocrats may have a problem with that, but I don't believe the Founders did.
Neil Lock Added May 13, 2018 - 6:06pm
Michael: Thanks for a good and thought provoking article.
 
Katharine: it's coming down to the individual vs. the group, with more people waking up to the hive-like thinking of the GoverCorp monsters. Absolutely. You, I and Michael, despite our different starting positions, seem to be aligned on this.
 
Pardero: Corporations should exist at the pleasure of the People, and serve their interests. I disagree. Corporations should serve the interests of their customers - who are people. Not "the People", whatever that means. People versus "the People" is, in essence, the individual versus the group, exactly as Katharine has said above.
 
Pardero Added May 13, 2018 - 7:00pm
Neil Lock,
Of course, corporations must serve their customers or they won't be in business long. I believed that went without saying.
 
I used a capitalized "People" because of that usage in the Constitution. 
 
I am far from a collectivist or a hive mentality person, and may not have not used precise enough language, though we may differ on this subject.
 
Notwithstanding any corporation's satisfied customer base, the citizens, people, and voters must approve of a corporation's activities. Neither the corporations, or their customers, are a law unto themselves. 
 
The individual is nearly powerless in a corrupt neo-feudal regime. I live in a republic that relies on individuals acting together to resist a corporatocracy. Sometimes, it takes a collective of individual citizens to take on a collective of corporatists. 
 
Those corporations must answer for their activities, to customer and non-customer alike. 
 
Our present worsening dystopia is caused by many factors, including too much statism and too much corporatism, oftentimes working together against the interests of the individual. The Founders wisely put the people and their (sometimes bought off) representatives in charge. I have a lot more faith in the people, than I do in corporations. If that makes me a "collectivist," so be it.
A. Jones Added May 13, 2018 - 7:07pm
another ancient (and authoritarian) symbol of considerably less notoriety, the fasces.
 
The fasces is an ancient Roman symbol. Since Mussolini claimed he wanted to bring to contemporary Italy "the grandeur that was Rome", the party to which he belonged named itself after the ancient Roman symbol: the Fascist Party.
 
Basically a bundle of sticks, Mussolini's central message was that while a single stick breaks easily, a bundle of them tightly-bound together is strong.
 
Each individual stick symbolizes the individual person (as a political entity). The symbol suggests that each individual politically is weak and easily broken; when bundled together with others and bound by the State, the bundle is strong and not easily broken.
 
Using that definition,
 
You've offered no definition of fascism. You described a relevant symbol.
 
you can say that any organization that wants to separate people from something, usually their money, can be "fascist".
 
I don't understand how you segued from your description of a fasces to the conclusion that any organization aiming to separate people from, e.g., their money, is therefore fascist. If so, then the corner bodega offering hot deli sandwiches to commuters arriving home after night shift work at 3:00am is "fascist" because the proprietors would love to separate those commuters from the cash in their wallets? I don't think so.
 
In any case, your segue proceeds in the wrong direction symbolically. The fasces is the bundle of sticks that are tied together; therefore — by your lights — any organization trying to push individuals into that bundle are therefore "fascist." Pushing people into a bundle that is tied together by the State is not an example of an organization trying to separate people from something. It's aggregating into a bundle, not separating into individual elements.
 
One logical trap people should be aware of is the fallacy of calling "fascist" anything they happen not to like, such as "corporate profit-seeking". Someone might not like what Apple, Google, Microsoft, or Amazon does to earn profits; that doesn't make them "fascist."
A. Jones Added May 14, 2018 - 7:02am
The People giving some direction to industry, when considered necessary, would not necessarily be a bad thing.
 
The People already give direction to industry: they're known as "consumers", and their patterns of buying things or not buying things (depending on what pleases them) determines which industries survive and which go bankrupt, as well as directing industries as to what they produce and even how they show go about producing it.
 
An economic czar, or economic planning committee (which is what you have in mind when writing about "the people giving some direction" to industry), cannot know what the majority of consumers need or want — especially since consumers need and want one kind of item one day, and then need and want another kind of item the next. Economic Czars and Economic Planning Committees can only misdirect scarce resources into coercing industries to produce things people don't want (for if they did want them, their pattern of buying would reflect that, and industries — always eager to earn profits — would already be producing those things without the need of Economic Czars and Planning Committees).
 
Corporations should exist at the pleasure of the People
 
They already do. And when the People cease being pleased by a corporation, they make that displeasure known by ceasing to buy its product or service. Guess what happens then?
 
Right. The corporation goes bankrupt and disappears.
Doug Plumb Added May 14, 2018 - 7:07am
If the governments are working with Google, Apple, etc to create smart phones that can track us, watch us etc, this is not quite fascism. Fascism occurs when they use the information they obtain to create propaganda and use that propaganda.
Fascism always occurs in society because everyone has to agree on the basic tenets of right and wrong. In the West this is rationalism,. the common law, in the East it is to do/believe what the clerics tell you.
 
re "Each individual stick symbolizes the individual person (as a political entity). The symbol suggests that each individual politically is weak and easily broken; when bundled together with others and bound by the State, the bundle is strong and not easily broken."
 
That is one aspect of it. Certainly fascism is necessary if the country is attacked. War propaganda becomes necessary for defense. Not all propaganda is bad and not all propaganda is lies. All societies require a certain amount of propaganda, therefore fascism.
 
Michael B. Added May 14, 2018 - 8:56am
Thank you all for your valuable comments. To be fair, the Right often overuses and misuses words like "socialism" and "communism". I'm going to take a random survey and see if some John and Jane Q. Publics can give me a ballpark definition of any of those terms.
Thomas Sutrina Added May 14, 2018 - 9:59am
Let us get history correct:  https://www.britannica.com/topic/democracy/The-Roman-Republic
 
 
"At about the same time that popular government was introduced in Greece, it also appeared on the Italian Peninsula in the city of Rome. The Romans called their system a rēspūblica, or republic, from the Latin rēs, meaning thing or affair, and pūblicus or pūblica, meaning public—thus, a republic was the thing that belonged to the Roman people, the populus romanus.
 
Who name="___id13">constituted the Roman dēmos? Although Roman citizenship was conferred by birth, it was also granted by naturalization and by manumission of slaves. As the Roman Republic expanded, it conferred citizenship in varying degrees to many of those within its enlarged boundaries. Because Roman assemblies continued to meet in the Forum.
 
Two millennia later, the solution—electing representatives to a Roman legislature—would seem obvious (see below A democratic dilemma).
 
As they adapted to the special features of their society, including its rapidly increasing size, the Romans created a political structure so complex and name="___id14">idiosyncratic that later democratic leaders chose not to emulate it. The Romans used not only an extremely powerful   Senate but also four assemblies, each called comitia (“assembly”) or concilium(“council”). The Comitia Curiata was composed of 30 curiae, or local groups, drawn from three ancient tribus, or tribes; the Comitia Centuriata consisted of 193 centuries, or military units; the Concilium Plebis was drawn from the ranks of the plebes, or plebeians (common people); and the Comitia Tributa, like the Athenian Assembly, was open to all citizens. In all the assemblies, votes were counted by units (centuries or tribes) rather than by individuals; thus, insofar as a majority prevailed in voting, it would have been a majority of units, not of citizens.
 
Although they collectively represented all Roman citizens, the assemblies were not name="___id15">sovereign."
 
The bundle of sticks with an ax in the center is the symbol of the above defined Rome.   Rome when it collapsed was for centuries not the republic presented above.  The definition of the symbol changed to reflect the political reality.  Fascism and Socialism both would share with the latter Rome, a nation governed by man made laws by few masterminds for their self interest creating laws.  A nation no longer having any connection with the ideals of a republic.
 
Pardero Added May 14, 2018 - 12:22pm
A. Jones,
We may be talking about 2 different things. I am not talking about widget production and consumption. I allude to large corporations and industries interfering in foreign governments and lobbying, foreign and domestic, for state action, sometimes military, that furthers their corporate interests.
Sometimes those interests align with national interests, sometimes not. 
 
Profit is essential for a corporation, but cannot be the only consideration.
Pardero Added May 14, 2018 - 12:43pm
The strength of Germany's economy is considered to be the large percentage of intermediate size companies. Likely, that fosters lively competition and precludes a massive corporation from having undue influence on legislation. If I appear to advocate for a 'soft fascism,' it is because I realize that a psychopathic or megalomaniac dictator is not necessary to fascism. The people, or their representatives, would be the dictator. I believe that is consistent with the Constitution. Corporations and oligarchs pulling the strings, or making their own rules, is not consistent with the Constitution. The people, and their representatives make the rules. If a corporation cannot make a profit by following the rules, they need to be swept aside.
Even A Broken Clock Added May 14, 2018 - 1:20pm
Michael - good posting and I particularly enjoyed revisiting the speech from Network. Having worked at one of the companies mentioned in this speech for my entire working career, I can attest to some of the corporate features you describe. I was amazed the first time I received an official invitation via postal mail to participate in the company-sponsored PAC. For the last decade of my employment, I kept throwing those envelopes away.
 
Since I had no social media presence, I didn't encounter the wrath of the company for any postings. And I absolutely refused to link my cell phone with my e-mail account, so that I would be constantly on-call. I often did log in on my lap top in off-hours, but that was my choice, not the company's.
MEFOBILLS Added May 14, 2018 - 1:21pm
Monetary history may help with understanding. Remember this is the relation  Money>Politics>War   
Rome was a monetized economy starting with King Numa around 790 BC.  Rome used Sparta's money, only it wasn't iron peleanors, but instead was Bronze Nomisa.  Nomisa in turn means "legal" money.
 
The bronze disks were like today's paper money, they were stamped with the legal amount.  This legal political construct of Rome grew quickly as people wanted to be part of high civilization. 
 
The fall of Rome can be traced to when she adopted metal money after the second Punic war. This made Rome more "eastern" like that of the middle east.  At the end of Empire, Rome was situated all the way East on the shores of the Bosporous where Istanbul is now.  
 
With regards to Corporations, that also is to be understood in terms of monetary history.  The first corporations were "corporeal" or men at arms. They had a charter are were allowed to work together only for the public good.
 
The charter and nature of corporations soon morphed into something more corrosive, especially after 1694.  The bank of england, the first chartered banking corporation came into being.  This bank and its private directors then hosted  England with debt means, and soon merged into a cross directorate with both East and West Indies companies.  The State then became an organ of these companies.  In other words the relation of master and slave inverted, where money power became the new king.   Corporations morphed further to be more than humans, with the ability to live forever and have money power.  Money power then control's politics and humans lose their god given sovereignty to their corporate creation.
 
And yes, Jewish maneuvering was behind these modern "corporate" constructs, beginning in Amsterdam.  Why?  Because our friends had lost their main method of usury when Portugal's  Vasco de Gama had discovered the Southern Route.  This is why Portugal got so rich so quick, as Portuguese shipping supplanted  Haibaru overland caravan routes.  Previous to the Amsterdam/London atlantacist banking corporate system was metal money movement from east to west along the caravan routes.  Rome interdicted this metal at the Bosporous, the choke point between east and west.
 
Rome was legal money at first, then Republic shared metal money power with Jews of the East, then Metal Money fell to Portuguese, then Jews invented bank credit/corporate mode to recover the money power they had lost.   They then hosted a country - first Amsterdam, then England.   This corporate mode has since spread across the world, and is the new reality people are born into.
MEFOBILLS Added May 14, 2018 - 1:35pm
Pardero,
 
Germany's economy can be seen in terms of monetary history.  Since you and everybody else were not taught this way in skool, then it might be helpful.
 
Germany uses a type of public bank.  The vast majority of loans are issued to medium and small enterprises.  In other words, Germany still uses a form of industrial capitalism where sparkhassen loans vector toward small business mittelstand type economy. 
 
Compare this to England's finance capitalist economy, where James Watt had to use his own money to invent the steam engine.  Any growth in industry means borrowing from a Wall Street or London Bourse by giving away shares in your company.  
 
Industrial Capitalism of the type formerly used in German under the Kaiser and Hitler uses public banks to form loans, and these loans are channeled into industry.   Debt instruments are thus held in public banks, and tend to not be on-sold into financial markets.
 
This is very different than the British/Zionist system finance capital system.  Germany still secretly runs their industrial economy, even after two world wars were started to stop them.  
 
Pardero Added May 14, 2018 - 2:06pm
MEFOBILLS,
That is fascinating history, and is related to your article on Canada's former sovereign economy. 
 
You wrote, "sparkhassen loans vector toward small business mittelstand type economy. "
For the life of me, I cannot understand why more countries don't work towards emulating that successful model. I commented quite some time previously, that Alberta has a public bank, but it doesn't seem to have much impact, and may only function in a similar capacity to private banks.
 
As an aside, I just ordered, yet another, Nier Feuerhand kerosene lantern. I do not know how they can still compete with far east imports, but they do. They are now owned by Petromax, which is better than the insolvency that they faced, recently.
MEFOBILLS Added May 14, 2018 - 2:32pm
This fascinating history of mankind was turned into mind numbing drudgery by Historians, who are monetarily illiterate.  So, they make up all kinds of excuses trying to connect the dots.  
 
For example, when Rome invaded Israel (the former Biblical Israel, not today's Zionist creation), the revolts happened further north.  Rome accidentally interdicted the caravan routes and the secret Jewish money method.   Our friends went bezerk and massacred thousands of Greeks.  Our friends even wound Greek entrails around their bodies.  So, a historian has to ask why the bezerk behavior over a small entrepot city, and almost no resistance in the holy areas.  They cannot answer these questions, because these money methods are hidden.... hidden on purpose.
 
The answer as to why the German Sparkhassen model is not followed is the same answer as to why the American System is not followed.  Oligarchs and Plutocrats make their usury via finance.  These people, especially if they think of themselves as God, will go to any lengths to maintain their money power.  
 
The Original Colonies in the America's also invented a form of industrial Capitalism where public banks issued bills of credit into industry.  This was the main reason for the Revolutionary War. 
 Franklin's economy in Pennsylvania was particularly advanced.  Freemasonary had not come into being at this time, and hence was not being used as a tool by Cabalists to infiltrate.  
MEFOBILLS Added May 14, 2018 - 2:50pm
Why do the German's maintain discipline and not become form Plutocracy against their fellows?  
 
Benedictine Monks had an especially large influence on the German people.   Labor became highly valued in German civilization.  So, the German's went from a people chasing pigs through the forests, to becoming the highest labor type on the planet.  
 
Apparently, when German's get together, it is not to figure out ways to screw over their fellows, but it is ways to work together.
 
The original American colonists were the same, as they "shook off" their British over-lords, and found ways to work together.  
 
This American system soon found itself under attack.  It came into being again around 1880 with Henry Clay and Peshine Smith and lasted up until Woodrow Wilson's "progressive reforms."  Wilson in turn was made into a tool of Zion.
Thomas Sutrina Added May 14, 2018 - 4:45pm
The major reason for the political downfall of the Knights Templar  c.1119 – c.1312 was the wealth they developed and the threat they represented to monarchs.  They created many of the methods of transferring wealth to distant locations.  The union express office of the day.  They were richer then most nations.
 
Netherlands became a banking capital and center of free markets because it was claimed by two powerful monarchs in Europe and then a stale mate developed.  Their was no effective iron fist of government to control the economy.
 
England's civil wars and not clear new king caused the Norman based idea of the capacity of individual to act independently vs group action that monarchs to be capable of demanding of a monarch the Charter of the Field, Manga Carta, and a parliament that held the purse strings of the monarchy.  This then resulted in the ideas of business and economics from the Netherlands to be adopted. 
 
American Colonies were business ventures under the Netherlands approach.  Individualism in a wilderness environment was heightened and had a foundation in the culture of the Normans.   It is no accident the monarch had less influence in the culture.   But the French made a successful revolution possible.  They saw America as a way of trimming the power of England.  The sale of Louisiana to America was a recognition that they would loose it to England so it was better to sell it to America that still saw France favorable because of the support they got to become an independent nation.
A. Jones Added May 14, 2018 - 6:28pm
I allude to large corporations and industries interfering in foreign governments
 
Large corporations interfering with foreign governments . . . not the other way around? Naturally, you've done your usual "thorough" research on this issue, so please cite ONE concrete, specific example of a large corporation that has "interfered" with a foreign government. Remember: be specific (name the corporation, name the foreign government, and cite the specific interference you have in mind).
MEFOBILLS Added May 14, 2018 - 6:51pm
The major reason for the political downfall of the Knights Templar  c.1119 – c.1312 was the wealth they developed and the threat they represented to monarchs.  They created many of the methods of transferring wealth to distant locations.  The union express office of the day.  They were richer then most nations.
 
 
Thomas, this is mostly true.  The Templars were also engaged in forward contracts, thus getting around usury injunctions, but still taking outsize gains.  Also, Templars had assumed the power to move at will across nation states.  Phillip the Fair was mostly likely in debt to the Templars, which is why he went after them.  The bottom line is that money's true nature is law, and the Templar's had assumed a power that did not belong to them. 
 
 
Netherlands became a banking capital and center of free markets because it was claimed by two powerful monarchs in Europe and then a stale mate developed.
 
Spanish sephardic Jews moved to Holland in 1492 during the expulsion, and middle eastern jews moved to Holland in 1497 after Vasco de Gama.   European Jews i.e. Ashkenazi followed in the next two hundred years, as shown by population statistics.  The state bank of Amsterdam did a good job but the "international" banking aspect of this period is totally a function of Jewry.  Stock market capital was evolved during this period with 700 unlicensed Sephardic Jews.  (It was hard for them to become state licensed.)  They invented Get's/Put's, and the like.  They also engaged in fraud by having look-outs for when ships would come in.
 
Norman based idea of the capacity of individual to act independently vs group action 
 
Again, if you don't follow money history and the Jew you get confused.  The Norman's brought Jews with them during their conquests in 1066.   They were used by the Kings to get around usury injunctions and to tax the people.  The Normans also grabbed the land  and built castle fortifications.  Jewish usury put land next to land, which led to their expulsion in 1290.  The original magna carta 1214 or so, has language in it prohibiting the (Norman) Kings for bad behavior, and specific language on what to do with Jewish debts.  After expulsion, England used Talley Sticks and the King became more aligned with the people.  The period between 1200 and 1600  was more one of the "international" trying to get back in to England.   Individual rights were more a function of the population being in revolt, and this revolt was mostly because of usurious debts.  Jewish homes were burned because that is where the debt instruments were lodged.  
A. Jones Added May 14, 2018 - 7:01pm
Benedictine Monks had an especially large influence on the German people.   Labor became highly valued in German civilization.
 
Labor is highly valued in every civilization since it's impossible to produce anything without it . . . as long as it's combined with other basic factors of production like LAND and CAPITAL. There's nothing unique about Germany or the German people in that regard.
 
So, the German's went from a people chasing pigs through the forests, to becoming the highest labor type on the planet.  
 
The "highest labor type"? I don't know what that means. Of course, you can clarify.
  
Apparently, when German's get together, it is not to figure out ways to screw over their fellows, but it is ways to work together.
 
I guess that explains the reason millions of Germans couldn't wait to get out of Germany and  emigrate  to the United States between 1820 and 1870:
 
"In the decade from 1845 to 1855, more than a million Germans fled to the United States to escape economic hardship. They also sought to escape the political unrest caused by riots, rebellion and eventually a revolution in 1848. The Germans had little choice — few other places besides the United States allowed German immigration. Unlike the Irish, many Germans had enough money to journey to the Midwest in search of farmland and work. The largest settlements of Germans were in New York City, Baltimore, Cincinnati, St. Louis and Milwaukee."
 
So much for Germans in Germany not screwing over their fellow citizens.
 
There's nothing wrong, per se, with your being a Germanophile (I used to be a Francophile in my youth). But really — grow up, already.
MEFOBILLS Added May 14, 2018 - 7:03pm
American Colonies were business ventures under the Netherlands approach.
 
Yes, the Dutch East India Company was soon followed by the English equivalent. This company model jumped to America.
 
Massachusets Bay Colony 1629 was a 'charter" a company of sorts.  They didn't have gold or silver, so they invented bills of credit, which then evolved to the American System.  This chartered colony was full of skilled tradesmen who couldn't work for lack of money, which was gold/silver in those days.  
 
 The sale of Louisiana to America was a recognition that they would loose it to England
 
Lousiana Purchase 1803 was was settled with $3M payment in gold as a down payment, and the US issued bonds for the rest.
The US cancelled $3.75M in debt owed by France and paid Napoleon the balance of 50 million francs or $11.25M in gold to cover the amount of $15M.
 
To fight "interernational" wars, you have to pay your troops in "international" money.   This is why Rome turned to precious metal money after second Punic war, which dates Rome's downfall.  
 
MEFOBILLS Added May 14, 2018 - 7:28pm
A Jones,
How many times do I have to say it.  If you don't follow the money, you are confused:
 
Here is a quick point bulletin on Germany.
Main periods of emigration: 1816-1817 The French-German wars that ended at Waterloo brought restlessness and instability into every village for a generation. England was flooding the continent with factory-made, cheap goods. Dislocated textile markets (weaving) put many in Germany out of work. Demobilization of troops cut wages in half from what they had been in 1815. High density of population compared to the productivity of the land in areas such as the Rhenish Palatinate, where the population was largely freeholders engaged in subsistence agriculture. Southwestern Germany law and custom dictated that inheritances be divided among all living children--after several centuries this had fragmented agricultural lands into tiny holdings. Emigration and increased use of potatoes had been the former responses to this. This led to home manufacturing: weaving, straw plaiting, making wooden tools and clocks which gave additional income to the peasants. This way of life was extremely vulnerable to the factory competition which came with the peace. Summer never came in 1816--grain didn't ripen, livestock were slaughtered as there was little fodder, the elderly and the children died of chill and hunger. Hot weather in February, cold in,,,
german immigration,
 
Also, the potato famine and Irish starvation was also economic.  England had put Irish into debts.  There was plenty of food, but it was high value.  Carts laden full of food would be pushed to ships, while Irish died due to lack of potatoes (a low cost food staple).
 
The American economist Henry George went to Ireland to see firsthand what was going on.  
 
In addition to the Germans I also admire the Hungarians.  In both cases it is due to their behavior over the centuries, mostly good but some bad.  
Pardero Added May 14, 2018 - 8:15pm
A. Jones,
The German system does differ in several respects. Students begin specializing at a younger age, and many go to trade schools or become apprentices. It is not exactly a secret. Note that a trade is more often the first choice, whereas in America a liberal arts degree, or a business, is often considered preferable, and labor is only settled for, if necessary.
Germany is well known for a highly trained workforce. 
 
Many immigrants to the US "fled" their homelands for opportunity. In many cases, a homestead was an attractive enticement. In that regard, you are correct, the German immigrants were much similar to many others.
 
You often chastise others for a lack of sources, yet you expound on immigration without actually refuting a claim that the Germans place a higher value on labor than many other ethnic groups. 
 
This is a casual writer's forum, and I prefer to hear the life experience and opinions of writers without the excessive clutter of references and citations. Many other forums may be more suitable for scholars and specialists. 
The ratio of university to trade school students, alone, would tend to show that the Germans prize trades and crafts to a greater degree than many other groups.  
 
I don't see being a Francophile or any other 'phile as being a sign of immaturity. Some groups are exalted for their steadfast loyalty to their culture, religion, and language. I do not understand why you consider it a negative for others to do the same. 
I am a Europhile, especially Finland, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, and Hungary. 
Thomas Sutrina Added May 14, 2018 - 8:18pm
Mefobills, you have added the Jewish history to what I said. Your correct about the knights Templar society that was sanctioned by the church, the pope ( not necessary popes after the first but by then it had too much power to oppose openly). Thus they were not taxed and could travel as anyone associated with the Roman Catholic Church in Europe. This was that an assumed power but a granted power and custom. The kings of Europe were absolutely in debt to the Templar. A wealthy new member gave his fortune to the Templar so they had huge wealth. I am not sure that the Templar assumed power that did not belong to them. The fact that the kings and pope took them down is the most powerful indication that you are giving them more power then they actually had. Now I am not saying that as the Templar's lost hold of the Middle East their armies had to be stationed somewhere. That is political power but was not used to prevent the purge because it didn't have that much power in Europe.
 
The monarch did expel Jews and as I said the a standoff between monarchs left a power vacuum in the Netherlands. So yes anyone expelled from one nation looked for a save haven. And since Jews were often not allowed to own land they made a living is trade, banking, and skill product manufacturing. They did occupy the save haven of the Netherlands.
 
Actually the Normans were great traders and had a booming economy with their long boats. The were setting up colonies all along the coast that they traded and attacked. The nature of the northern nations in Europe broken up by mountainous coast created many local king/war lords and the importance of individualism. Take a boat out to sea requires personnel responsibility also.   The found land for those that wanted to be farmers instead of raiders.
 
The Normans that settled in England created kingdoms that then would be targets of the next wave of Normans a century or two later. England language is a mixture of those that settled in them and often the language after a few generation change significantly. A lot of french is found in the English language but the languages are different today and in the time of the American Revolution.
A. Jones Added May 14, 2018 - 8:27pm
Dislocated textile markets (weaving) put many in Germany out of work.
 
Not exactly. In the short-run, it put weavers working on obsolete hand-looms out of work . . . only to create a much larger employment opportunity in the long-run (which wasn't long in arriving) for laborers in the steam-driven weaving industry, as well as the need for a new labor force in new industries that were emerging as a result of a sharp DROP in the price of textiles for consumers.
 
How many times do I have to say it: everything in an economy is interconnected: higher efficiencies and productivity in one sector leads to improved employment opportunities in other sectors.
 
Regarding hazy and suspicious concepts such as "national character", Germans are no different from people of other countries, especially other European countries.
 
As I posted previously: it's fine being a Germanophile when you're an adolescent. But afterward? Grow up, already.
A. Jones Added May 14, 2018 - 8:58pm
Germany is well known for a highly trained workforce. 
 
I've seen no evidence from you or anyone else that Germany has a more "highly trained" workforce than anyone else. Vocational training relies to a great extent on the old apprentice system; i.e., students being trained directly by a company that intends to hire them. Nothing wrong, per se, with that; though many students are channeled into vocational careers by their teachers and school administrators without having freely consented to do so. Seig, heil.
 
Of course, I keep in mind that you're a closeted neo-Nazi and MEFOBULL is an outed neo-Nazi. So I expect both of you to cherry-pick your data. That's OK.
 
The following article is much closer to the truth about the German economy:
 
https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/03/29/2199403/marcel-fratzscher-on-the-dark-side-of-the-german-economy-now-with-transcript/
 
According to the interviewee, Germany's economy is not, overall, doing that well. He doesn't have the highest opinion about the Germany education system, either.
A. Jones Added May 14, 2018 - 9:16pm
without actually refuting a claim that the Germans place a higher value on labor than many other ethnic groups. 
 
Pardero:
 
When you pull an arbitrary claim from your ass, you cannot demand of someone, "Disprove THAT!" You've presented no evidence at all that Germans "place a higher value on labor" (whatever the hell that means) than other groups. You simply asserted it as if it were so well established that no evidence is required. Wrong.
 
I don't waste time and energy refuting someone's unsupported claim. Support your claim with evidence and I'll support my counterclaim with evidence.
MEFOBILLS Added May 14, 2018 - 9:34pm
Jones,
You comment about national character being similar?  
Think of it this way, a number of characteristics need to come together for a productive economy.  Usually some sort of industrial capitalism, a work ethic, honest behavior, willingness to do the right thing when nobody is looking.  It takes a high trust people group.
 
Japan under its Manchurian railroad economists post WW2 is a good example.  Germany under Frederick Lists economy, and America under Peshine Smith and Henry Clay.  Or even the original colonies where they all worked together to better themselves.  
 
Russian's are essentially the same genetic stock as the Germans, yet they were very different economically, especially with a peasant culture.  The German culture DID evolve under the guidance of Benedictine monks.  In the upper middle ages, the economies were not monetized, but instead feudal where you owed your "lord" a portion of your output.  This would be in the form of goods, produce, etc.  
 
With regards to German labor being among the best in the world, it is self evident.   As soon as Germany organized herself under the Kaiser,  German industrial goods became the highest quality in the world.  Japan caught Germany post WW2 and China is following the same template.  A low trust culture, say like that of the middle east, or Africa, does not have what it takes.  
 
In the 60's economists were talking up Brazil as if it would be the next greatest thing, after-all it is a Continental sized country.  Yes, Brazil would be the next great thing if the people were all replaced by Germans.  Brazilian Culture and human capital make for a low trust society.  
Pardero Added May 14, 2018 - 10:11pm
A. Jones,
Here is an article you might find interesting.
World's Best Workers? 
MEFOBILLS Added May 14, 2018 - 10:41pm
Jones,
 
By the way, calling names and using ad-hominems always makes me laugh.  Words like Nazi and Anti-Semite are yesterday's news.  They have no power to "outrage" anymore.  
A. Jones Added May 14, 2018 - 11:04pm
Russian's are essentially the same genetic stock as the Germans
 
Russians and Germans come from different genetic stocks and are not closely related. See:
 
https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/the-genetic-relationships-of-the-slavic-finnishugric-and-germanicpopulations-according-to-anthropological-and-genetical-data-2332-2543-1000143.php?aid=46216
 
Germans are in the same genetic cluster as Serbs, Hungarians, Croatians, Czechs, and Ukrainians.
 
Russians are in the same genetic cluster as Poles, Iranians, and some others that inhabit the Urals and Caucuses (e.g., Komi, Ossetians).
 
The ancestors of Russians migrated from Asia across the sub-arctic region and lived in Northern Siberia. The ancestors of Germans migrated from Europe and lived in Southern Siberia.
 
This is all shown by studies of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA, which indicates maternal lineage).
A. Jones Added May 14, 2018 - 11:07pm
They have no power to "outrage" anymore.
 
I'm merely putting you in the correct pigeon-hole so that it's clear where your biases and distortions come from.
 
By the way — just out of curiosity — what is your native language? It doesn't seem to be English.
Pardero Added May 14, 2018 - 11:50pm
A. Jones, 
That is interesting material you are reading.
Speaking of native languages, that is a poor translation. It doesn't help that non-standard tribal and ethnic names are used in some cases.
 
You should be aware that Nazarova can be considered somewhat avante garde, and does not yet enjoy a consensus among scholars. Nazarova may eventually enjoy a status similar to Gimbutas, but that day has not yet arrived. 
 
I noticed a mention of the Nostratic language family, which certainly has some important critics. The Russian scientists are cutting edge but Cavalli-Sforza may have used a different set of alleles when computing relative distances between ethnic groups. 
 
It is my belief that Nazarova does not give enough weight to comparatively modern migrations and admixtures. Cavalli-Sforza's research is more consistent with historical linguistics. 
 
The Nostratic super language family is fascinating but probably impossible to prove. It may be more likely for Nazarova to prove that Caucasoids, Northern Mongoloids, and Native Americans all originated in a relatively small area in central Asia. That theory does not jibe with the European fossil record, which shows Caucasoids originated in Europe, some migrated to the Steppes, and then returned to Europe as Gimbutas's Kurgans.
 
Nazarova's theories are fascinating, but I am sticking with Cavalli-Sforza and Gimbutas for now.
 
 
Pardero Added May 15, 2018 - 12:03am
A. Jones,
MEFOBILLS is likely self-educated, which would explain his unique writing style and thought processes. Self-educated people often lack idiomatic expressions,  group-think terms, and constructions that many use without thinking. 
 
I am somewhat insulated from the MSM and don't always speak in the popular vernacular, myself. 
 
I would have thought you above "pigeon-holing" anyone, but at least you are consistent in your inconsistency.
A. Jones Added May 15, 2018 - 12:17am
MEFOBILLS is likely self-educated
 
I didn't ask about his educational background.  I asked him (read this very carefully, Pardero): WHAT HIS NATIVE LANGUAGE IS.
 
Do you understand the different between "What is your native language?" and "What is your educational background?"
 
Don't go gear-jammer-simple on me.
MEFOBILLS Added May 15, 2018 - 1:24am
Jones,
I have a broader definition of what constitutes Europeans than you do.  The Russo's were Vikings, probably originating in the Baltics.  They portaged their ships across Russia.  
 
The Slavs farmed their way from West to East down river tributaries, and are considered Germanic in origin.  
 
The region between black sea and caspian has always been over-run with various tribes, so this area is one of the hardest in the world to pin down.
 
What difference does native language matter if an idea is expressed in a way that is clear?  The point of language is to code information and convert it into a sound compression wave.  Language is two way... or should be two way, where the receiver asks for clarification until the information acquired has high agreement.
 
Unfortunately, in today's world, people speak past each other.  
 
Your tactic of insults and ad-hominems e.g. gear-jammer does not make you a paragon of virtue.    
 
A. Jones Added May 15, 2018 - 8:14pm
I have a broader definition of what constitutes Europeans than you do.
 
Don't waste my time, MEFOBULL. You claimed Russians and Germans were the same genetic stock. I posted a link debunking that claim. So whatever "broad definition" you have is irrelevant to your previous post, which specified GENETIC STOCK.
 
What difference does native language matter if an idea is expressed in a way that is clear?
 
1) I was careful to issue a disclaimer: "By the way — just out of curiosity —".
 
2) Your writing is generally opaque, not clear.
 
3) Among other things, many (if not most) of your previous posts contain words with apostrophe-s to show mere plurality ("The Russians's are . . ." instead of "The Russians are . . .").
 
Grammar Tip: In English, when you want to indicate that there's more than one of something, you almost always just add "s" to the end of the word, with no additional diacritical marks (such as the apostrophe) needed (One Russian; Five Russians [not, "Five Russian's"]). The apostrophe-s indicates possession ("The Russian's hat seemed exotic to the Frenchman.") An apostrophe is usually added at the end of a plural noun ending in "s" to show possession by more than one thing ("The Russians' overcoats were necessary given the cold weather.")
 
You're welcome.
Pardero Added May 15, 2018 - 10:33pm
A. Jones,
Much material abounds, on the subject of genetic distance. This is just a typical local example.
Genetic distance
Please note the Cavalli-Sforza reference. MEFOBILLS's information is consistent with Luca Luigi Cavalli-Sforza, the foremost authority on the subject, and professor emeritus at Stanford University. Your information is derived from a non-mainstream source, and is an outlier.
 
Consider yourself debunked.
Pardero Added May 15, 2018 - 11:24pm
This haplogroup map is just one way, out of many, to compare populations.
Genetic map of Europe
Flying Junior Added May 16, 2018 - 4:52am
Call me nuts.  What freaks me out about MEFOBILLS is that he is always quoting some source like RTV.
 
I'm not interested in anything being put out by RTV.
Jeffry Gilbert Added May 16, 2018 - 7:55am
I'm not interested in anything being put out by RTV.
 
Others are. More of that leftist insistence and intolerance.
 
Michael B. Added May 16, 2018 - 8:31am
In the last couple of days, I've personally asked a baker's dozen of males and females that I felt were "representative" of the area I live in if they knew the difference between socialism, communism, fascism, and capitalism. I'm not surprised at the results, and actually found them entertaining. Every single one of them thought socialism and communism are basically the same thing. Fascists are white racists and white supremacists. Capitalists are Republicans and people like Trump. The critics are right, evidently I do indeed live in a "People's Republic", lol. The next time I'm accidentally in Orange County (as I never go there on purpose), I'll have to ask the same questions; I have a sneaking suspicion I'll get somewhat different answers, lol.
Michael B. Added May 16, 2018 - 9:10pm
Just today, four more people who have no idea what communism is. You'd think they'd know, after a 50-year Cold War, untold trillions spent, and millions of people dead and injured. Oh well. As if I expected anything different.
James Travil Added May 17, 2018 - 6:38pm
"I'm not interested in anything being put out by RTV."
 
I am, much like Jeffry. Then again I'm not afraid of news and views from sources outside of Western establishment mainstream media, like certain leftists. 
MEFOBILLS Added May 17, 2018 - 6:56pm
Anybody who is intellectually honest should be able to entertain ideas from any source.   Truly brave souls will question their preciously held shibboleths and assumptions.  
 
So, what is truth?  Truth is something that requires verification.  For example, if I tell you there is a gun on the table behind you, then you turn to look, and said gun is not there - ---- I'm telling a lie.  
 
In science, if you cannot repeat an experiment, the underlying theory become invalidated.  
 
If the "source" is constantly telling lies, then that source invalidates itself.  
Tom C. Purcell Added May 17, 2018 - 8:55pm
"So, what is truth?  Truth is something that requires verification."
 
Exactly my approach to WWII.  What is verified is true - factual.  What is alleged yet unverifiable about WWII ranges from precise and undeniable to grey and arguable, even from truly mistaken to grossly imagined.  The best advice I can give regarding that statement is to dig, dig, dig and ask, ask, ask - why, what, who how, and why again.
Pardero Added May 17, 2018 - 9:38pm
Fascist wine is popular with tourists in Italy but don't take it into Austria.
Austrian man gets 6 months for Hitler wine
Michael B. Added May 17, 2018 - 10:17pm
One of my favorite lines from the movie JFK:
 
"Theoretical physics can prove that an elephant can hang from a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy. But use your eyes, your common sense."
 
It would seem that the world is belonging more and more to "theoretical physics", lol.
 
Michael B. Added May 17, 2018 - 10:19pm
I read somewhere that truth is whatever lies someone chooses to believe in. I find it amusing that there can be more than one definition to the word. I'll have to watch Rashomon again soon.
Michael B. Added May 17, 2018 - 10:26pm
@ Pardero - LOOOOL!!!! I can hear it now..."Nessuno ti prende BOMBA come ... HITLER! " Translation: "Nobody gets you BOMBED like...Hitler!" Hahahahah!
 
There's actually a town in Austria named Fucking...look it up. "I got busted after taking my wine to Fucking, Austria." I never went there, but I did get close to Bitsch once, lol.
Pardero Added May 17, 2018 - 11:26pm
@ Michael B.
LOL
Fun with foreign languages! 
The difference a vowel makes. We need an American town called ficken, to amuse those Austrians and Germans.
Michael B. Added May 17, 2018 - 11:32pm
Yes Pardero, foreign languages can be fun, especially the little faux pas they make in translations. For example, I had a German chick tell me that she had an appointment to see "the vaginacologist", and another one said she was making "chicken chest" for dinner.
Pardero Added May 18, 2018 - 12:03am
That's funny.
I remember an oft repeated quote about the US diplomat who wished to tell Khrushchev that 'he was barking up the wrong tree.' 
It was translated as 'he was baying like a hound,' which understandably, annoyed Khrushchev. As a history buff, you have probably read it before.
 
I took a semester of Latin, and the hardest part was using context and your knowledge of the culture, to create a sensible translation when verbatim was nonsensical or awkward. 
Idiomatic speech would always be challenging.
 
I met this Czech, many years ago, who told a lot of jokes in broken English. He used whistles to indicate motion, which added additional hilarity to his ribald jokes.
Pardero Added May 18, 2018 - 12:13am
Michael B.
Waaay off topic, Jack Vance wrote a short story or novella? The Moon Moth, that you would get maximum enjoyment from. Only about 35 pages. Much about language pitfalls in an unusual culture. 
I know you are a non-fiction person, but that is one of Vance's most loved stories.
Michael B. Added May 18, 2018 - 12:13am
That reminds me of yet another German chick named Gabi. She would say things like, "What's horny and whistles?", and then proceed to loudly whistle. She also said, "[Question] What does a man say after his 25th orgasm of the night? [Answer] Thank you, Gabi." Damn, that's the one I should have married, lol!
Pardero Added May 18, 2018 - 12:20am
You and my little brother both missed out!
That fool came back with some skinny American bitch. I can't stand the woman. I don't know what he was thinking, in a country full of German girls.
Michael B. Added May 18, 2018 - 12:49am
Pardero, no matter what, there's absolutely no accounting for taste, lol!
Flying Junior Added May 18, 2018 - 4:04am
Attractive female in her twenties:  What has two thumbs and likes to be eaten?
 
Answer, (Given by the same girl doing the double thumbs up,):  Me!
David Montaigne Added May 18, 2018 - 7:47am
Fascism to me is the centralization of power in the hands of less and less government - working hand in hand with corporate business entities - because power comes from money and guns.  Laws are made by those who can back their agendas with money and or guns.  Such concentration of power works!  It is very effective.  Dangerously effective.  And once established, very self-perpetuating.  But the reasons for its establishment get bypassed, warped and degraded... it becomes a tool merely for self-perpetuation, for maintaining, growing, and keeping power for those who have it.  Everybody else resents the power held by others who don't share their views and agenda.  And even if those people are weak and disorganized, "they" are often referred to as fascists, especially if they acknowledge differences among people, and suggest treating different people differently.  Punishing criminal behavior is treated the same as racism - if one supports breaking the same laws the criminal broke.  Should the mayors of sanctuary cities be in jail for arbitrarily breaking federal immigration laws?  Absolutely!  Would Trump be called a fascist if he upheld those federal laws and arrested said mayors?  Yes he would...  "Fascism" has been worn out and abused as a derogatory slur even when people are enforcing laws appropriately.  Some people will always be in positions of accumulated/concentrated power, and others will always dislike what they do with it.
Michael B. Added May 19, 2018 - 1:42am
David M., thank you very much for that crystal-clear definition! I cannot improve upon it. I've personally experienced, many, many times, what "downtrodden" people do whenever they get a hold of anything remotely resembling power; they waste no time thoroughly and absolutely abusing it.
John Minehan Added May 19, 2018 - 10:38am
"Large corporations interfering with foreign governments . . . not the other way around?"
 
Usually with the assistances of their friendly neighborhood  Government.  United Fruit in Nicaragua; British Petroleum with Iran in 1953 and (reportedly) ITT in a lot of places in the 1970s.
 
Some of that (as you suggest) is defensive, avoiding lawless nationalization and the like (although there has been less of this since the 1970s) and virtually all of this is at least in conjunction with some form or another of state action (US Marines in Nicaragua, the CIA [Kermit Roosevelt] and MI6 in Iran in 1953 and the US DoS in Chile in 1973).   
Michael B. Added May 20, 2018 - 11:54am
Funny how the Iranians continue to excoriate the U.S. for Operation Ajax when it was actually a British operation that served British interests. The Limeys have fucked with Iran FAR MORE than the Americans have.
Pardero Added May 20, 2018 - 12:37pm
John Minehan,
Thank you for those details.
 
Michael B.
That reminds me of a Greek philosopher that said 'The worst tyrant is a slave in power.' Maybe a far more literate person can remind me who said that.
I will try to remember this time.
A. Jones Added May 20, 2018 - 5:54pm
Actually, Pardero-Redneck, if you read your own link, you'd see that it agrees with the site to which I originally linked in all of its essential points. You missed it because of your confirmation bias: you so want to believe that Germans and Russians are of the same genetic stock that the fog in your brain acts as a sieve, filtering out anything that challenges your pre-determined conclusion. The practice is called "denial."
 
The only way to debunk me is by linking to a site stating "Germans and Russians are the same genetic stock." Find that first; then repost.
 
Until then, crawl back under the rock whence you came.
John Minehan Added May 20, 2018 - 6:20pm
"Funny how the Iranians continue to excoriate the U.S. for Operation Ajax when it was actually a British operation that served British interests. The Limeys have fucked with Iran FAR MORE than the Americans have."
 
That is very true.  I think the Iranians blame us more because Shell got oil concessions (as did a French company) and we got a lot of pull with the hated Shah out of the operation.  Which was part of the Brits' effort to withdraw "East of Suez" in our favor.
 
I knew people in the Army, who spent time in Iran in the 1960s and 1970s.  It was apparently a good duty station.  When I got to VMI, they had just graduated their last Iranian Navy Cadets.
 
How hostile Iran is to us now may be a function of how close the two countries were then. 
Thomas Sutrina Added May 21, 2018 - 9:18am
David M., I find this a confusing statement, "Fascism to me is the centralization of power in the hands of less and less government - working hand in hand with corporate business entities - because power comes from money and guns.  Laws are made by those who can back their agendas with money and or guns.  Such concentration of power works!  It is very effective. "  David is seems your down playing the importance of government is the first sentence and then putting government back into.  Then you end by pointing your finger and the tools that are used.
 
First Fascism uses generally big business to obtain their common end goals.  Reading Law of Success (21st century ed) by Napoleon Hill, he talks about Master Minds that are the leaders of business.  Business is organized into departments that are lead by other Master Minds that are experts in handle all aspects of their departments.  Now this sounds exactly like the leviathan federal government where their departments are lead by unelected MASTER MINDS that write laws (regulations) enforce their laws and adjudicate their laws.   You talk about money and guns these are the tools to force citizens to obey these regulations.
 
Fascism like Socialism and the most familiar Communism all share with business the belief that Master Minds make better decision then the public.  They are special people, the upper class and as such make the rules for the lower classes.  They do not believe in election.  This David M. is the central point of all forms of Fascism and Socialism.  The people serve the upper class.  
Jeff Michka Added May 28, 2018 - 4:58pm
I suppose "everyday fascism" is good for everyday fascists.  Despite his attempts a being rehabilitated on WB, Michael B is judt another everyday fascist.  So?
Michael B. Added Jun 7, 2018 - 2:15am
Bitch-ka, my man! Long time, no insult! As usual, your grammar, sentence structure, and sentiments are spotless! Friendly correction: I'm a racist, sexist, homophobe, but I'm NOT a fascist; notice that, unlike you, I don't follow anybody. Take some geritol and sleep it off, you fucking polack.
MEFOBILLS Added Jun 7, 2018 - 3:49pm
Actually, Pardero-Redneck,....the fog in your brain acts as....only way to debunk me....Until then, crawl back under the rock 
 
Posts above from A Jones. 
 
A lot of insults and butt-hurt by Jones in a short period of time.  
 
Jones is unhinged.....  
 
A= Asshole.  Asshole Jones. 
 
There is no point in debating ass-holes.   They should be shunned instead.
 
I vow to limit any insults to other WB writers, except in cases like Jone's where it is not an insult but instead descriptive.   This should be a policy for all of us.   Even if we have disagreements, we should be adult and civil.  
Pardero Added Jun 7, 2018 - 4:19pm
A...Jones,
A superficial examination does indeed appear that I am debunking myself.
 
Consider that  medium blue and mint green are both Germans, South Germans and North Germans, respectively, making the German components nearly identical in both ethnic groups.
The Russians enjoy a substantial Finn component, which is equivalent to the entirety of the German micro-components.
 
The 'Celtic' and 'Slavic' components are nearly exactly reversed, which is the most glaring aspect of the genetic map, but you cannot deny that the amount of 'German' is nearly identical, whether 'Nordic' German or 'Ostrogothic' German. 
 
Although the colors are highly contrasted, do you wish to make a stand on some imagined profound difference between R1a(Slavs) and R1b(Celts), so named because they sprang from an original single haplogroup?
 
Don't be confused by the pretty colors, A...Jones.
 
MEFOBILLS,
Glad to see your busy schedule allowed you to drop by!
Thanks for the backup, my friend.