Equality -- Question for JP

My Recent Posts

Jordan Peterson, you claim yourself to not be a conservative.  I think you claim to be a liberal in the classical sense. Certainly, your history and profession fit that description.

 

That said.

You say that you advocate equality of opportunity and denounce equality of outcome in forming social justice policies.

 

I claim that you do not understand that social justice causes like "equality", whether its an outcome or a beginning,  very much produces the dystopia we see today.

 

I claim that you have not fully thought out the difference between “outcome” and “opportunity”.  Both require, at some point, an unequal application of social justice on any over-performing individual or group.  To have equal opportunity, you have to socially enforce, or legally, at some point, a neutral or equal location in culture.

I claim that all you are doing by advocating "equal opportunity" is shifting the same argument to new territory while appeasing your greatest liberal critics.

I claim that in this century what we will discover, is what we knew all along, that our differences are the best asset we have for us both individually and culturally.  Unregulated competition is the only justifiable and moral means for progress in society. To advocate any politically enforced equality is immoral and will always be a slippery slope to a dystopian future.  The only equality that is moral is a blindfolded woman holding scales of justice.

 

The availability of opportunities, at any point in time, is a zero-sum game.  Any person has limited opportunities at any given moment.  A college or university has limited enrollment.  Jobs are in limited supply for example.

The only way to increase opportunity is for the individual to change and create their own opportunities.  This is the only "progressive" means to change the zero-sum game.  To presume such that all opportunities be equally available to all is complete socialist nonsense.

 

"Equality", with any clarifier, is vaporware for socialists programming giving credit where it is undeserved and hence unappreciated while penalizing those that deserve credit the most.

 

Comments

Spartacus Added May 15, 2018 - 1:14pm
I won't be able to respond to any comments for a few days.  Just so you are aware that I am not ignoring you.  I'll try to catch up later.
Cheers
Dino Manalis Added May 15, 2018 - 2:57pm
We should strive for equality, but it will never be perfect, inequality is normal and natural.
Autumn Cote Added May 15, 2018 - 3:00pm
Please note, it's against the rules to post more than one article within a 48-hour period.  
Stone-Eater Added May 15, 2018 - 3:19pm
inequality is normal and natural.
 
In what respect ? Dino, explain.
Spartacus Added May 15, 2018 - 3:21pm
Autumn,  Please re-instate then after the 48hr period.  Thank you
Utpal Patel Added May 15, 2018 - 5:02pm
Who's Jordan Peterson?  I'm sure I could Google my way to the answer, but as the author of this article, don't you think you owe it to your readers to at least include a link.  Stated differently, why does it matter how Jordan Peterson would answer your question?  How would you answer the question?
Tamara Wilhite Added May 15, 2018 - 11:15pm
I think Dr. Peterson very much realizes that enforcement of "equality" leads to horrors, with the easy way out killing the most talented and highest achievers. The middle path is ending incentives to work hard, so you get the best and brightest fleeing while everyone else does the bare minimum regardless of their ability.
 
I get the impression SJWs think Harrison Bergernon is an instruction manual, not a warning. Hence their deliberate uglification, the demands that no one else look good because it may make them attractive, that we end gifted and talented classes because it makes others feel inferior. That their version of equality is everyone literally equal in ability, regardless of the harm to individuals and society.
Stone-Eater Added May 16, 2018 - 6:38am
Tamara
 
I think Dr. Peterson very much realizes that enforcement of "equality" leads to horrors, with the easy way out killing the most talented and highest achievers.
 
It has some truth in it. I remember in Africa I was planning a hotel in the 90's, and we were on a good path. Unfortunately, my friend who I was setting this up with was one of 8 brothers and the only one who was capable and clever enough for it. The rest of the family didn't like him to be "better" than the rest and started to sabotage our project - and they succeeded. Mind you, I was a foreigner....
 
But that does not mean that "equality" has to be named in the same phrase with socialism. These are two pairs of shoes that most US-Americans can't separate.
 
We are a part of nature. Which means the stronger wins - in every respect. What divides us from other animals is the capability to NOT punish the weaker for his weakness.
 
(Sorry for the HIS. It's not PC LOL)
Stone-Eater Added May 16, 2018 - 6:43am
William
 
We have lost directions and orientations. I advise every Westerner who follows that equality Zeitgeist to live in other cultures, be it in Asia, Africa or South America. Then they will have a big ? on their head. This is no more than an artificial luxury distraction subject.
 
Call me a chauvinist - but it's true.
Ian Thorpe Added May 18, 2018 - 1:58pm
Stoney, we have lost direction - because the cultural bonds that hold human communities together have been severed.
Tamara Wilhite Added May 20, 2018 - 3:02pm

Stone-Eater  For many liberals today, the goal is not equality of opportunity but equality of outcome. That everyone should have the same income, the same respect/prestige, the same housing, the same interchangeability as sex partners ... that any differences due to ability, effort and so forth are evil and oppressive.
 
A. Jones Added May 20, 2018 - 8:08pm
Which means the stronger wins - in every respect.
 
If the phrase, "in every respect", refers to those who are stronger in intellect, creativity, and innovation, then it's incomplete to state that "they win", as if they alone win. In fact, the winners also include those who are weaker in intellect, creativity, and innovation (i.e., the majority or people) because they get the benefit of other people's contributions.
Ward Tipton Added May 21, 2018 - 12:36am
I would argue that equality in results is delusional at best ... and inherently dangerous. However, equality in opportunity in its present condition has been so skewed by the state and social justice warriors as to make it a complete exercise in futility. When I was a kid back in the ancient days of old, even high schools had "work programs" and auto shop, machine shop and other courses for people who excelled in more technical and vocational realms. Today there is a blanket delusion that presumes the equality of all people in whatever self-identified reality they choose to live in ... which utterly destroys any ability to focus on individual strengths and weaknesses. It is the statist delusion that is flawed, not the opportunity for equal access to meaningful opportunity. 
wsucram15 Added May 21, 2018 - 10:20pm
Doesnt this guy have an alt-right fan base?  I mean I dont really care but if he is spouting ideals like we must be completely equal to create a sort of dystopia(forced equality) is not a liberal ideal.
I think equality in some areas is needed, but in others the PC culture has taken things too far.
There should be a push against the far left and the far right. I dont care about the agenda who who is spouting off about it.  While I believe all people were created the same, and should not be treated as subhumans because they dont have custom Porsches or Ferraris, is how I feel.
There is no need for anyone to push the equality button so far (extremist position) that no one has the opportunity to excel.  Its the lack of empathy in our culture that has bred the ideal behind this, however wrong it may be.
Our differences are the best asset we have because we benefit from that, and when ALL people admit that, we will have a civil society. That is not the case presently.
Spartacus Added May 22, 2018 - 12:50pm
 How would you answer the question?
 
I did answer the question, Utpal.  It's in there.
Spartacus Added May 22, 2018 - 12:56pm
I think Dr. Peterson very much realizes that enforcement of "equality" leads to horrors.
 
Tamara, I have seen and read most of Peterson's work.  Nowhere does he explain this.  In fact, I am seeing a trend now with ex-lefties, now centrists, using this "equal opportunity" message much more frequently. 
I would like to know the logic in rejecting "equal outcome" and then advocating "equal opportunity" as both require the same politics/laws.  I realize he is a Dr. and I realize he is intelligent.  
 
I will have a chance to ask him this question, in person, in the near future.
Spartacus Added May 22, 2018 - 1:01pm
In fact, the winners also include those who are weaker in intellect, creativity, and innovation (i.e., the majority of people) because they get the benefit of other people's contributions.
 
Exactly, Jones.  Try explaining that to anyone who is yelling "racist" or "bigot" in your face.  The intellectual divide and the political divide is one and the same crevasse.
Spartacus Added May 22, 2018 - 1:08pm
I would argue that equality in results is delusional at best
 
I agree, Ward. 
 
not the opportunity for equal access to meaningful opportunity.
 
What is "equal access"?  What is this "equal" thing of which you speak?  Again, people say these equality statements without really analyzing how to enforce them and how unrealistic they actually are.
I don't have equal access to become a pro footballer.  I don't have equal access to become a mother.  I don't have equal access to even drive a car.  I have to pay something, do something, or be something to gain "access" to all these things.  They are not granted and could never be "granted" to me without creating a social disaster.
Spartacus Added May 22, 2018 - 1:22pm
There is no need for anyone to push the equality button so far.
 
Who are you blaming for pushing the button too far?  The alt-left?  Who are these alt-left people? 
Or do you mean the entire education system, democratic party, and anyone who still believes that Affirmative Action is not inherently racist, sexist and a destroyer of "equal opportunity" in the USA.  An Asian, with the same test scores as a black person, will be rejected in favor of said skin color.  This is the dystopian nightmare you have created and supported.  Affirmative Action is NOT equal opportunity.
wsucram15 Added May 22, 2018 - 7:41pm
William..I never said anyone pushed the button, but I mean anyone.  I dont disagree with equity as opposed to the often misused equality.   If you are 6 foot and I am 4 foot how can we be equal to see over a 8 ft fence?  Give us each the same box to stand on, that would be equality.   Which is essential wrong, because you cannot catch up and one cannot see over the fence still.
But in equity, I would have two boxes and you would have one.   We could both see what we needed to see and have the exact same view. 
Affirmative action creates opportunities for those that did not have them but also leaves gaps for those that arent included in that action.
Equity is fair for all.
If you had taken the property from all the plantation owners and redistributed it to the slaves this would have been fair and equitable.  Allowing fair housing and fair job placement in a time YOU AND I  didnt live in, was appropriate. Even today, there is such hatred.
When does it end?
I actually to SOME DEGREE agree with you, but you have to try something different and perhaps better for everyone. 
Good article btw.