Should Illegal Immigrants be entitled to Tax Funded Healthcare in the US?

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In 2015 California inspired another wave of illegal immigration by passing Health4All Kids, and effectively making it easy for anyone under under 19 to receive free medical insurance.  That cost the California which is already deeply in debt, billions they don't have and now they want to give anyone who can get themselves here free health insurance, (SB 974 and AB 2965), which will cost even more.  

 

This is being done at the same time as many Americans who pay for all this free medical care, especially our Seniors, can't afford their own medical care.  I know several that can't afford their medicine so they don't fill the prescriptions.  Others live with constant pain from things like bad teeth, because we are giving the money it would take to make them healthy away to people who shouldn't even be here.

 

We can't pay our own bills and we aren't taking care of our own Seniors so  we have no right to give away free healthcare to foreigners before we fulfill our obligation to our own citizens.

Comments

Bill Kamps Added May 31, 2018 - 12:00pm
We give them health care, mortgages, university scholarships, easy jobs.  Our policy is a mess, and as a result laws are not enforced, when they are enforced it is arbitrarily. No other modern country has such a mess when it comes to immigration. 
 
On the one hand it encourages illegal immigrants to come here, and on the other hand they run the risk of how they and their families will be treated if they are caught.  How they get caught, where they get caught, and who exactly catches them, determines more what  their fate will be, than what the law says. 
 
Nothing is right  about this situation, but the politicians dont want to solve it.  They all claim to want something perfect, and allow this to stop any improvements. In reality I think they want to keep the situation alive as a political issue.
Rusty Smith Added May 31, 2018 - 1:46pm
Bill Kamps Unfortunately there is one more very political angle, illegal aliens are very desirable to the Democrats and many politicians are very willing to give away "other people's money" to help improve their popularity and buy them votes.
 
We saw that with California pensions which politicians kept increasing to the point where the average government pension is not worth over 3 million dollars.  Government employees responded favorably by voting for the in droves, even as it's starting to look like taxpayers may not be able to afford those pensions in the future.
 
In the case of healthcare, we clearly don't have the money it takes to treat our own citizens well, so giving part of what we do have away to other people who didn't expect, earn or deserve it makes absolutely no sense.  Our citizens are suffering from some of the highest health care costs in the world, and we're handing out free medical care to people who sneak in the country???
Bill Kamps Added May 31, 2018 - 1:57pm
Rusty, I think illegal aliens help both parties, which is why neither really wants to solve the problem.  The Dems get more likely Democratic voters, and they and the Republicans get a campaign issue.  Why solve the problem?
 
Giving them health care is obviously a big cost.  Add in emergency room care to that as well, since they cant realistically turn people away.   We have dumped the burden on cities, who have refused to pick up the illegals, because ICE doesnt do anything  with them.
 
We dont enforce the law that requires employers to check that employees are valid residents.  We dont even check that the social security number belongs to the person that is using it.  The form to file the FICA withdrawals does not even have the employee name on it, as a first step for enforcement. 
 
It would not be that difficult to dry up a good percentage of the jobs, by enforcing existing laws both for using SSNs, and cracking down on employers who pay employees in cash, without a W2 or 1099.  These are not difficult things to track.  Once we dried up many of the jobs, the stress on the border would be much lower.
TexasLynn Added May 31, 2018 - 1:59pm
Rusty,
You didn't give me enough information to decide if I support these laws/programs or not.
 
Key question: Is this something California is footing the bill for or are they somehow passing the costs on to anyone else in the nation through the feds? 
 
If we in Texas are in any way paying for their folly, then it needs to stop. 
 
If this is California footing the bill, then I think those selfish SOBs aren't doing enough for the poor downtrodden people.  In fact, they should be giving free health care to anybody who wants it whether they live in California (or the US) or not.  How can they sleep at night, not doing that!
 
The sooner these morons go bankrupt (as an example to the rest of us) the better it will be for the country (assuming we don't bail them out).
 
Somebody (many actually) are in dire need of a economics lesson and attitude adjustment; be it...
1) The benevolent rulers of the Peoples Republic of California
2) The serfs of California (the real victims paying the bills, and if you're one of them, my condolences)
3) The rest of the nation seeing the cause/effect of socialism at work close to home
Frosty Wooldridge Added May 31, 2018 - 2:48pm
All illegals need to be arrested, detained, prosecuted and deported.  End of problem.
Pardero Added May 31, 2018 - 3:02pm
Rusty Smith,
Great article that keeps this issue in the public's mind.
 
Terrific thorough comments by Bill Kamps and TexasLynn, and a concise one from Frosty.
Rusty Smith Added May 31, 2018 - 3:19pm
TexasLynn in answer to your question, California is expanding the list of people it will provide subsidized medical care services to so that it no longer excludes admitted illegal aliens.  Previously those people were excluded unless they had fake papers.
 
Naturally the pot of money that is already insufficient to cover their citizens medical needs will need to be stretched even more so that it can also cover all those extra people.  It's especially tough because the vast majority are completely indigent and have never paid taxes into the fund that pays for those services.  
 
Our very generous politicians, (with other people's money), have not yet addressed the money part.  I'm sure they will come up with  another tax or fee since California State and Local taxes are already the highest in the nation.  They would like to see our gasoline price pushed up to about $7 per gallon so we quit driving, I'm sure that will work. 
 
Soon I'm expecting a tax on money that follows our citizens as they leave the state to go to more tax friendly states.  Right now you can take your cash but more and more people are finding out there are many fiscal penalties if you have money and leave the state.  If your income is from Tax Free Municipal Bonds, Calif will tax the income if you leave the state.   Many of the health care plans retirees earned by working don't cover people who leave Calif.  In other countries you can't take money out of the bank and take it with you, I'm just waiting for Calif to do that too.
Bill Kamps Added May 31, 2018 - 6:15pm
Rusty it is laughable.  It is one thing to lavish unaffordable benefits on the voters of Calif, in hopes of buying their votes.  It is another thing to lavish the benefits on illegal immigrants who shouldnt be able to vote, and if some do, probably only a small percentage of them try for fear of being sent home.  
 
Politicians just cant resist the urge to create more giveaways to the voters.  It is what got them elected, and by golly  they are going to keep taking care of those poor citizens until all of them have three bedroom houses, two cars, and lifetime health care, without any of them having to work. 
 
To paraphrase Franklin.  When the voters realize they can vote themselves money, the Republic is doomed.  Calif is leading the way.
Jeff Michka Added May 31, 2018 - 6:53pm
Just dangle a little homophobic bait, and ol Frosty the Xenophobe makes an appearance.  You folks never tire of "the Other" bashing, and really think illegals have more power and get all the "free stuff" you don't.  Bet some of you xenophobe cowards really believe these illegals all vote.  Trump loves you.
Bill Kamps Added May 31, 2018 - 7:00pm
Jeff,  what nonsense.  There is nothing homophobic in my posts, and you said nothing factual about my comments, or anyone else's comments being incorrect.  Al you did was do some name calling, which is pretty childish.
Ward Tipton Added Jun 1, 2018 - 12:12am
I still think mutually implemented immigration laws would be ideal. Let's implement the same immigration policies as they have in Mexico or in the Philippines or even in Africa or some other nations. 
Flying Junior Added Jun 1, 2018 - 3:56am
Unfortunately there is one more very political angle, illegal aliens are very desirable to the Democrats and many politicians are very willing to give away "other people's money" to help improve their popularity and buy them votes.
 
Rusty,
 
There is no way in hell that undocumented residents are voting.  Just get over that.
Bill Kamps Added Jun 1, 2018 - 8:13am
Flying, I dont think he actually said they are voting in the quote you extracted.  I think many Democrats are sympathetic to the illegal aliens, and so giving them benefits improves the politician's popularity within their base.  In addition, politicians just cant resist giving away things funded with other people's money.
 
Having said that, since illegal immigrants can get a driver's license, and since in many states, that is all you need to register to vote, it is possible they can vote, just very unlikely since most want to stay below the radar.
 
Ward, we obviously need some place as a model.  Our laws are the least coherent, and least enforced of any place in the world.
Ward Tipton Added Jun 1, 2018 - 9:48am
I vote for a combination of Philippine and Mexican immigration "law". 
Rusty Smith Added Jun 1, 2018 - 10:55am
Bill Kamps first a point of clarification, in California there is zero chance of an illegal or anyone else getting busted for casting an illegal vote in an election, California does not enforce those types of laws.  The only people who have gotten in any trouble were trying to do a lot more than vote, they were trying to stuff ballot boxes.  
 
Politicians in the parts of California that are largely Hispanic frequently assume they can ingratiate themselves to the overall Hispanic community and buy votes by pandering to illegals.  Any support they give in that direction receives lots of positive news coverage and phrase, voting against those interests usually results in protest from activist groups and negative media coverage they don't want.  Yes, around here politicians do pander to illegals in an attempt to get more votes.
 
Their theory is well supported by the news media but in reality I'm not so sure it's as correct as the news media makes it sound, many Hispanic citizens who are here now realize more illegals means more competition for the jobs they want and higher taxes they don't want.  According to many studies, the majority of the the legal Hispanic community is no inclined to vote for politicians that encourage illegal immigration unless it would benefit someone they know.  In Southern California, that's a lot of the Hispanic community.  Where I live the vast majority want to bring family members into the US, but further from the border I think that is less of a factor.
Rusty Smith Added Jun 1, 2018 - 11:17am
Flying Junior please read the post just above this one and know you have touched on a topic that I've had a lot of experince with. 
 
I live close to an spend a fair amount of time around a lot of illegals, almost all from the South.  Many years ago a close friend got very upset after he realized most of the Hispanic illegals he knew were voting, and they proved how easy it was to him by getting him a real absentee ballot in a name they had him provide. 
 
He got quite upset and then he, I and a few other people in our area got hold of our local politicians and the voting office people to see what we could do to stop them from voting.  We met with them and held a few public meetings that were well attended, but in the end nothing happened because the laws we have are not enforced and there are laws that render the laws we might enforce unenforceable.
 
Lets start with registration, most illegals have everything they need to register to vote, and there is no mechanism that checks their citizenship or even checks to see if 30 are all claiming to live at one house or business.  The voting system simply registers who ever signs up and give them everything they need to vote where ever they say they live.  If you thought they use something like E-Verify to check who they are you are wrong.  The voters registrar's office says they don't have the manpower to do that even if there was a database to check.
 
Now suppose you are in line to vote and you hear the person in front of you claim they live in your house, and object.  Even then there is nothing you can do about it.  The voting people aren't allowed to ask the illegal for ID, and your word means nothing.  They have to let him vote, his vote will count, and sometime before the next election they will contact your house and try to determine if the illegal really lives there.  If they determine he doesn't live there they will remove him.  If he had claimed he was your brother who does live there, there is nothing they can do.  That's just the law, nothing we can do about it.
 
All this was met with lots of anger at the public meetings my friends and I set up but NO action.  Many people were very upset but I quickly realized the reason we can't do anything to change it is that none of the politicians we'd need to help us make the necessary changes want the bad press they would get for going after illegals who vote.  Can you blame them, activist groups would call them racists and the bad press couldn't be good.
 
Things may be quite different where you live, but that is the way it is in Southern California.
Rusty Smith Added Jun 1, 2018 - 11:25am
Ward Tipton  I do find it quite hypocritical that Mexicans criticize our immigration policies and their own border enforcement on their Southern border is by their own standards much stricter than ours.
 
Mexicans that come here enjoy the opportunity to become rich business owners and own property.
 
Americans going the other way can't do either.  Americans can't even own a house in Mexico.
TexasLynn Added Jun 1, 2018 - 11:59am
Bill >> Jeff what nonsense...
Bill it's best to just ignore the trolls.  Jeff's comments (and Jeff himself) is like a bad rash you so want to scratch.  It's better to just apply a little ointment and leave him alone.  Name calling and shit throwing are the only tools in his toolbox.  He adds nothing to WB or likely much of anything he's involved in, I suspect.  Ignore him...
Dino Manalis Added Jun 1, 2018 - 12:14pm
 Illegal immigrants may need emergency health care, but they should become legal residents first before they qualify for other services.
Rusty Smith Added Jun 1, 2018 - 5:54pm
Dino Manalis I have never believed we should deny people emergency medical care if they are here on vacation and get hurt, like in an accident, but that's worlds away from where the most recent legislation takes us.  It tells all the poor people in other countries that if they are sick and can't afford medical care in their own country, all they have to is make it here and we will give it to them for FREE.  That I do object to.
 
As is is now people from other countries that come here with things like AIDS are given tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of FREE medical care, and then they are allowed to stay here based on the theory that if they returned home their health would suffer because they would not have free access to all the medical care they can get here.
 
Our own taxpaying seniors are getting the shaft because we can't cover them and the illegals.  Thousands of our seniors suffer along without their medicine because it's just too expensive, so we can give that money away to people from other countries.
Ward Tipton Added Jun 1, 2018 - 8:52pm
Nor can foreigners own property in the Philippines, they can lease the land, much the same as in Mexico, but they cannot own the house upon it. And at the first demand of the owner of the property, the lease is considered to be forfeit and the land is returned to its "rightful" owner. 
 
In either country, a single complaint, no matter how frivolous it may be, results in instant immigration detention and very little if anything in the way of judicial recourse. And the American embassy? They tell you "good luck with that" if you can even make it in far enough to meet any of the "diplomatic" staff at all. The ONLY time they even attempt to intervene on behalf of their citizens is when it is an extremely high profile case, likely so the rest of the world thinks they are doing their job ... at least when they know the world is watching. 
Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 1, 2018 - 11:04pm
Rusty, excellent point.
 
I have a question for WB.
 
 
Does anyone know the history of how we came to allow illegal aliens to obtain drivers licenses?  
Or health care? Or welfare?
Did this evolve as some sort of perversion of bipartisan inabilty to develop a rational and enforced immigration policy?
 
Every country that I have been in has always wanted me to justify my legal presence.  I certainly never would have expected assistance.
 
Mustafa
Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 1, 2018 - 11:12pm
Rusty,
re"


  Americans can't even own a house in Mexico.


 "
That is not true. They have restricted zones and even those one can get around. I have several friends who own houses there.  They go there all time
 
Mustafa
Ward Tipton Added Jun 1, 2018 - 11:24pm
I think Mustafa, you will find that they can lease the property ... ninety-nine years was the limit when I was there, and live in the home that is on the property, but they do not actually own it. Much the same as a vehicle lease in the US vs the direct purchase of a vehicle. 
Flying Junior Added Jun 2, 2018 - 4:24am
Bros,
 
California is not in debt.  We have a rainy day fund.
Flying Junior Added Jun 2, 2018 - 4:35am
Rusty,
 
Thank you so much for making me aware of this new program.
 
What a beautiful thing.
 
As a citizen of the U.S.A. and as a tax-paying citizen of California, I may be able to speak for the majority of us, especially when you consider that I live in the California Heartland.
 
That's right!  We love our old Governor.  Reagan Country is just about the nicest place to live that I can find or even think of.
 
Some day I will pen an article about nice, crunchy republicans in California.  They really aren't that bad.  They are good people.
 
I know that some of you don't believe me when I say that there are good republicans.  I don't blame you one cent!
 
As far as the children...
 
I think that we are about preventing suffering.  We do not wish to vanquish the parents of these dear children by making them responsible for the outrageous medical costs inherent in our system of health care.
 
Is that wrong?  Everyone living in the State of California is a vital part of what we have going on.
 
We don't care about immigration laws with respect to hurting people.  We promote social justice.  It's working out quite well.
Flying Junior Added Jun 2, 2018 - 4:56am
Friend Mustafa,

I have a question for WB.
 
 
Does anyone know the history of how we came to allow illegal aliens to obtain drivers licenses?  
 
It's fairly simple Mustafa.  I drove for thirty-five years with a CA driver's license before my immigrant brothers and sisters were allowed to have a true driver's license from the California DMV.
 
I ran into some guys in about 1992 with my Chevrolet in a minor accident in Pacific Beach, California.  All I had to do was jump out of my car and tell them that it was their fault.
 
All that they could do was ask me for money.
 
Of course, I was aware of the problems that undocumented drivers faced for better than fifteen years.  Traffic Court is no fun.
 
We were probably the first state to legalize licenses for the undocumented.  It seems hard to believe that it was finalized only five years ago.  It had been the policy of the DMV to issue valid licenses to residents since the 1990s.  But with Pete Wilson and proposition 187, people very soon were scrutinized when they applied for driver's licenses.
 
It's a public safety issue.  You have to have a license to buy insurance.
 
We are an enlightened populace.
Gerrilea Added Jun 2, 2018 - 7:56am
Flying J-- So, you now admit that illegals can get driver's licenses, the one document you need to register to vote and you claim they aren't doing so?  Said DL then allows them to get car insurance, how many actually buy it?
 
Rusty's point still stands, we have so many natural born & legal citizens that cannot afford to pay for many services or products, like medications. 
 
Whom does this ideal of yours actually serve? 
 
The Hidden Costs the Rest of Us Pay for Illegal Immigration:
 
As the article above points out that the definition of "citizen" is undermined, the law our nation is built upon, is destroyed.
 
And all you're worried about is billing their insurance for an accident???
 
Leroy Added Jun 2, 2018 - 8:30am
For a long time now, for my insurance, I have had to pay extra for uninsured motorists.  The idea that giving illegals drivers licenses is for insurance purposes doesn't hold.  We already have a provision to pay for the uninsured.  If everyone has a license and therefore insurance, I shouldn't have to pay.  That is not the case.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 2, 2018 - 10:10am
FJ,
re"It's a public safety issue.  You have to have a license to buy insurance.
 
We are an enlightened populace."
 
You have a way with declarative statements.
 
re:
"Of course, I was aware of the problems that undocumented drivers faced for better than fifteen years.  Traffic Court is no fun."
 
No fun?  
 
 
Rusty Smith Added Jun 2, 2018 - 1:05pm
Mustafa Kemal It is true, only a Mexican citizen can "own property" in Mexico, but clever Mexican lawyers have work arounds where the land title can be held by Mexicans but technically on paper a foreigner is in full control of the property.  That is not the same as owning the title to the property.
 
In a country as corrupt as Mexico, with a legal system that frequently does not favor foreigners, I wouldn't put my hard earned money into a house I can't have title to.   You could lose your investment over something as simple as the legal documents you paid for lacked a detail that is required for them to be binding.
 
When you hold the title, you do own the land.
 
Renting is cheap, especially since violence targeting "rich foreigners" is so common.  If you have some insane desire to live there, rent, then you have much less to lose if your get swindled or if the government decides to nationalize your property.
 
My father knew someone who lost everything because of a technicality he had no way of even knowing about, and Mexican courts didn't give a darn about him because he was just a rich foreigner.  He was so mad he wanted to kill the guy who cheated him, but didn't.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 2, 2018 - 1:27pm
Great article, Rusty, I completely agree.  You may enjoy my new news website, Messanonews.com
Rusty Smith Added Jun 2, 2018 - 1:34pm
Mustafa Kemal giving things like driver's licenses and free medical coverage beyond what is required by the Fed,  is up to individual states.
 
All hospitals and other medical facilities that get money from the Fed are required to treat anyone that walks in with a serious problem.  They can not turn away an accident victim, a violence victim or a woman whose about to have a baby.  That is nation wide and I don't generally think that's a bad policy because I don't want to see bickering over details when someone's life is in danger. If you go into most medical facilities including all the medical clinics, somewhere they have paperwork posted saying "no one can be turned away for lack of money"
 
However California has taken it a step further, I think in 2015 they officially changed the law so that all indigent illegals under 19 years old would automatically receive free medical care, (remember even out Senior American Citizens don't get it for free).   Now they are in the process of extending that coverage to all indigent illegals regardless of age.  They are all more entitled to free medical care than even our poor American citizens and our elderly because they can not be billed, since we really don't know who they are.
 
Drivers licenses, some states like California that have huge illegal populations, especially in some places, and a problem when they drive.  It's illegal for them to be here, and they have nothing to lose if they crash so the vast majority also don't bother with insurance.  If caught they are just allowed to drive away, no attempt is even made to document who they are if they convince the officer they are indigent illegals.  I've stood by after one ran a light and did about $8K damage to my brothers car.  The cop explained there was nothing worth doing, and let the illegal drive away.  In Calif they aren't even allowed to impound the car.  As you can imagine the same does not apply in reverse, if you hit an illegal you are held responsible.  Calif's ultra high insurance rates are the result.
 
California's politicians are very pro illegal immigration, all the way down to very official sanctuary cities which do everything they can to prevent the feds from deporting illegals, including recently pardoning criminal felons so they wouldn't have to be deported.  In an attempt to stop them from being second class citizens they issued them Drivers Licenses, so they would have California ID, and so they would not be second class citizens.  They hope that doing so also gets them to buy insurance, but most who do only keep the policy a month and then cancel it, remember they have nothing to lose.
 
Welfare is an outdated word, but the concept of providing everything from free food to medical care and free legal assistance still exists, and the agencies that do it like helping lots of people so in places like Calif, they are not particular about fake paperwork and illegals know that.  The Hispanic community has a very well organized network that helps illegals get what they need so they can milk the system.
 
In my opinion if someone goes to another country and runs out of money they should be given a bill for whatever they owe the country, and sent home until they can pay the bill.  That is the way it was until states like California decided go make everything free to indigent illegal immigrants. 
 
That is what once happened and it prevented many illegals from doing anything that might get them noticed and deported.  They avoided criminal behavior like the plague, they tried not to do anything that might encour a bill they couldn't pay because that to might get them deported.   Now everything is officially FREE and there is no risk of deportation.  OF COURSE they are coming here as fast as they can.
Rusty Smith Added Jun 2, 2018 - 1:40pm
Flying Junior Are you positive you have to have a license to insure a car?  If so please tell me what legislation changed that?
 
Previously anyone could insure a car and I am unaware that has changed.  People who visit from other countries on visas were always allowed to buy insurance, heck I bought insurance for my kids and never showed the insurance company their license.
Rusty Smith Added Jun 2, 2018 - 1:44pm
Leroy uninsured coverage is not for illegals, but it often does cover damage done by them.  Many people's liability insurance limits are so low they can't cover any serious repairs, and usually your uninsured makes up the difference, see below.
 
Uninsured motorist coverage protects you if you're in an accident with an at-fault driver who doesn't carry liability insurance. Underinsured motorist coverage, on the other hand, steps in when you're in an accident with an at-fault driver whose liability limits are too low to cover the damage or medical expenses.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 2, 2018 - 5:54pm
Rusty, 
re:" It is true, only a Mexican citizen can "own property" in Mexico,"
I have friend and a relative who disagree and claim they have title.
 
Here is a link that suggests that in the Restricted Zone things are very different.
 
 
Leroy Added Jun 2, 2018 - 7:20pm
"Leroy uninsured coverage is not for illegals, but it often does cover damage done by them. "
 
You entirely missed my point.  True, it is not for illegals, but I never said it was.  It is for any uninsured driver.  Therefore, if everyone is required to have uninsured coverage, that takes away the argument that issuing drivers' licenses solves the issue.
 
"Many people's liability insurance limits are so low they can't cover any serious repairs, and usually your uninsured makes up the difference, see below."
 
I believe that would be the underinsured because there is no difference to make up for the uninsured.
Rusty Smith Added Jun 3, 2018 - 12:43am
Mustafa Kemal As your link points out the restricted zone contains virtually all the land foreigners would be interested in and includes, 100 kilometers (about 62 miles) from any Mexican border, and within 50 kilometers (about 31 miles) of any Mexican coastline. 
 
The Mexican government loves foreigners with lots of money and as your link points out permits very clever and complicated legal arrangements that allow people who aren't Mexican citizens and allowed to own the title to property, to have control over property Mexican citizens have title to.   Ideally those arrangements have the potential to give foreigners all the control an OWNER would normally have, but often that proves not to be the case over the long haul.  
 
Your link very wisely cautions foreigners to not rely on non-Mexican attorneys and I will tell you that relying on Mexican attorneys can also get you in trouble if you don't know enough about the details to ensure you have all the contractual requirements met that might prevent you from finding out later on that you missed details that could cost you your property at a later time.  
 
Think about this, YOU DON'T OWN THE TITLE TO THE LAND, and one day the person or company that does, may not be there and the attorney you used might not be around either.  If one day someone tells you your time is up or your contract is not airtight, do you really think the Mexican courts will be on your side.  You're not in America, you're just a RICH FOREIGNER.  The US knows about thousands of stolen cars that are being used in Mexico and Mexico won't do anything about them either.  The only people who really love you rich foreigners are sales people and swindlers who want your money.  Once they have it you're no one to them.
 
That's all my dad's friend turned out to be, and when he lost everything and had to return to the US a broke retiree.
Rusty Smith Added Jun 3, 2018 - 12:53am
Leroy you are only required to have insurance that covers damage you might do to other people or their property, and the amount varies by state.  You have no obligation to have insurance that will pay you to fix your car or people including you in it, if someone else runs into you.
 
The minimum liability, (fix the car you hit), is $5,000, which isn't nearly enough to cover most expensive repairs, much less a rental while yours is in the shop.  If you do more damage than your insurance limits the people you hit can sue you and even garnish your wages, unless you are an illegal, (your can't get blood out of a stone).
 
Flying Junior Added Jun 3, 2018 - 1:21am
Gerrilea,
 
The California Department of Motor Vehicles can now legally issue driver's licenses to all qualifying residents.  Everybody knows that.  I don't need to admit it.
 
The Registrar of Voters has standards for registering California voters.  I'm pretty sure they know just exactly how to keep it straight and above board.
 
I can't believe that you would buy into such a ridiculous RW canard.  You come across as an intelligent and concerned individual.
 
If we were registering undocumented residents, in all likelihood it might mean a substantial boost to the California republican party.  These people are pretty conservative.  Many are evangelical Christians.
Flying Junior Added Jun 3, 2018 - 1:33am
Leroy,
 
The California DMV thinks it best that as many drivers as possible are insured.  As I said, it's a public safety issue.  Beyond that, an uninsured driver that was involved in even a minor traffic accident would, of course, be subject to arrest.  They would lose their car and be subject to stiff fines, impound and towing fees and possible jail time.
 
We're not comfortable with that.
 
I'm guessing that uninsured motorist coverage is only pennies out of the dollar that we all pay for auto insurance.
 
That's the beauty of the United States.  Each state has autonomy within the framework of the federal government.
Flying Junior Added Jun 3, 2018 - 1:38am
Calif's ultra high insurance rates are the result.
 
I hate to date myself.  But I just paid $527 for six months of insurance for two cars and two drivers.  That's less than fifty bucks a month for each driver.
Rusty Smith Added Jun 3, 2018 - 3:13pm
Flying Junior if you think your insurance rates are GREAT I'd guess you never lived anywhere else.  Try soliciting the same coverage for places like Colorado and see what it would cost you.
 
The Calif's liberal drivers license got them in big trouble and now they are issuing 2 different types of licenses, one for illegals, and one for American citizens.  The one for citizens has a little bear in the upper right, and the one for illegals doesn't.  Resident citizens who renew will have to present proof of citizenship to get a new license that will qualify to be considered valid ID for things like travel.  The TSA will not accept the one for illegals.
 
However illegals buy fake paperwork all the time and that's why many had driver's licenses, and social security cards before all this fuss.  Illegals will have the one for Citizens too, just wait, there is nothing special required that they can't buy.  Below is straight from the California web site on what you need to register to vote:
 
The voter registration application asks for your driver license or California identification card number, or you can use the last four numbers on your Social Security card. If you do not have a driver license, California identification card or Social Security card, you may leave that space blank. Your county elections official will assign a number to you that will be used to identify you as a voter.
 
Since most illegals have fake Social Security cards and many also have drivers licenses, registering to vote is also very easy.  
Flying Junior Added Jun 3, 2018 - 3:57pm
I do have comprehensive and collision on both vehicles!
 
We will agree to disagree on the issue of voter registration.
 
I would think that if it really were happening in more than just a blip or two it would be quite easy to route out and expose the voter fraud.
 
Thanks for the information about the non-citizen licenses.  I appreciate it.
Gerrilea Added Jun 3, 2018 - 4:47pm
Flying J-- What I do not understand is why anyone would be against verified voting where we show our proof of citizenship and residency.  Until we get laws passed like that it's not a RW canard. The excuses the Democrats keep claiming is that it will disenfranchise poor people, etc, etc, etc.  People pay for driver's licenses and renewals, it hasn't stopped poor people from driving cars. 
 
Black Box Voting has investigated these things for over a decade, Bev Harris has shown how easy it is to vote and NOT live in the State or be a citizen.
 
This, for me, isn't a "left" or "right" issue.  Only US citizens should be voting.
 
 
Flying Junior Added Jun 3, 2018 - 5:26pm
Hmmm...
Flying Junior Added Jun 3, 2018 - 5:58pm
Thanks for the name, Bev Harris.  I was quite fearful of the Diebold machines as well.  As far as I know it is not known whether or not they were ever successfully hacked.  (I mean, you know, as far as a real hit during an election.)  It is an extremely chilling thought.
 
Ten years ago as I recalled the disastrous voting irregularities in the Ohio general election of 2004 I penned this famous song parody, entitled simply, "With Apologies to Willie Nelson," which includes a nod to the Diebold black box voting machines in verse one.
 
Mama don't let your babies grow up to be lib’ruls.
Don't let 'em vote commie and drive ‘lectric cars;
Make 'em cut taxes for plumbers and such.
Mama don't let your babies grow up to be lib’ruls.
They'll never cut taxes, no matter the facts is
Even when times are tough.

Lib’ruls ain't easy to love and they're hard to understand;
And they're always talkin’ ‘bout givin’ poor folks a hand;
Greenpeace bumper stickers and “Save the Whales” T-shirts;
Each day they fight for the cause.
And if you can’t rig the Diebolds and close the polls early
They’ll probably let black people vote.

Mama don't let your babies grow up to be lib’ruls;
Don't let 'em tax windfall profits for oil;
Alternative energy totally sucks.
Mama don't let your babies grow up to be lib’ruls;
They'll never drill offshore and dig up the ANWR;
Even for the oil we love.

Lib’ruls like socialized medicine and clean air and water;
Health care for seniors and children and illegal aliens.
And we that know better fight funding for college;
The free market always works best!
They ain't just wrong, they's different from decent Murkins like us.
 
I guess it's a bit late to record it on YouTube.  :)
 
I wish it was more like 2008 today.  It seems like it was almost an innocent time as far as the vindictive and venom.
Rusty Smith Added Jun 3, 2018 - 7:36pm
Gerrilea the politicians only care about one thing, likely votes for themselves.  The ones that would not like to see voters have to show ID before voting, obviously think they get more votes taking that stand.
Johnny Fever Added Jun 4, 2018 - 2:19pm
The answer to your question with no uncertainty or hesitation is “yes.”  This is not the type of country where we will let anyone bleed to death on account of not having enough money to pay for healthcare.  That being said, everyone who receives tax payer funded healthcare, should get a bill for services rendered.  The ability to pay that bill and what to do you don’t have the money is a complicated matter. Generally speaking, if you don’t have the money or insurance, the bill will likely go unpaid.  So a question for you, is it your assertion that illegal immigrants receive free healthcare insurance?   
Rusty Smith Added Jun 4, 2018 - 3:18pm
Johnny Fever in California know illegals who claim to be under the age of 19 are ENTITLED to free medical care coverage, they can sign up for Medicaid.  There are two bills pending right now which allow all illegals of any age to sign up and receive free tax payer funded medical care.
 
They can come here from other countries like Mexico, sign up and get all their medical care for free as long as they claim to be illegal.
Johnny Fever Added Jun 4, 2018 - 5:38pm
The point of my comment is that everyone who needs medical care in America will receive it. One’s state of residency or immigration status has nothing to do with it.  Paying for that care is complicated.  If California were giving illegals free medical care on account of them being illegal that would be a really stupid thing to do.  Stupid as Californians are, I’m sure that’s nowhere close to how it’s actually working. 
opher goodwin Added Jun 4, 2018 - 6:55pm
Difficult one isn't it? I suppose you could just leave them to die or scream in agony? Or perhaps the wealthiest country on the planet could show a little bit of compassion?
Rusty Smith Added Jun 4, 2018 - 10:32pm
Johnny Fever in California, yes we're that stupid.  There was wording that said you had to be an American Citizen to sign up for Medicaid  coverage and in 2015 our politicians removed that requirement for illegals who said they were under 18.
 
The two bills to add all the illegal adults are currently in process and they work the same way, they simply remove the requirement for citizenship.
 
The politicians who want to do this want UNIVERSAL medical, were anyone who wants medical attention just shows up and get it.
 
The only good news is that this just makes an unofficial policy that's been practically legal, by practice, legal.  Illegals have been receiving free medical care in all our hospitals and clinics including free drugs, for ages.  Now they can have their own real medical insurance just like real citizens do.  No more pretending.
Johnny Fever Added Jun 5, 2018 - 9:01am
I’m proud to live in a country that provides free healthcare overage to children that don’t have the means to pay for it themselves.  It shouldn’t matter one iota where a child was born to receive healthcare.  It would shock me greatly if California was the only state doing this. Besides, seeing that every child born in America is an American Citizen, there are likely only a handful (relatively speaking) of children that crossed the border illegally and are still minors today.  So this article basically applies to nobody. 
 
As for a bill that would allow all illegals access to Medicaid, I’m sure there is one.  There are a lot of stupid bills that don’t pass.  Seeing that no hospital is allowed to deny service, we’re already very close to universal medical care / insurance. 
 
I get the fact you don’t like illegals and wish they were not here.  By all means, you should figure out a way to close the border.  As for any illegal already here, this will never be the kind of country that will check your immigration status or healthcare insurance status before providing you needed medical care. 
Rusty Smith Added Jun 5, 2018 - 2:24pm
Johnny Fever I think it's nice and very generous that you are more than willing to diminish your own lifestyle so that you can help provide people from other countries with free medical care, and hope that you never regret doing so because you or someone you care about can't afford their medicine as a result.  I already know people who don't fill all their prescriptions who wish they could have access to some of the money spent giving illegals free healthcare.  Quite some time ago I needed a root canal for about 6 months, so I know how some seniors feel.  I have a friend who can't afford his heart medicine, and one who is going blind from macular degeneration and can't afford the eye drops.
 
If I had my way you and our very generous politicians would always have the right to give all your money to any cause you want, but I'd like it if you couldn't also give away MY tax money.  Our politicians in California are exceptionally generous with other people's money, and often not cognisant of basic economic concepts, like you can't spend more than you take in.
 
The law illegal immigrants who claim to be under 19 free medicaid passed and is law, and I do hope the your are right and extending it to adult illegals doesn't make it, but then again I was shocked when they passed the first one.
 
I don't dislike illegals but I do not want them sucking our medical dollars up because I know we already have trouble taking care of our own poor, like our seniors.  The pot of money is finite and every dollar we give away to people from other countries is another dollar we can't use to help a senior.
Ward Tipton Added Jun 5, 2018 - 10:12pm
Johnny Fever ... interesting that you use the moniker of Johnny Fever but an avatar featuring "Travis" from WKR(a)P in Cincinnati ... just an observation ... as is ... 
 
Nothing is free ... at the end of the day, somebody has to pay. 
 
As was previously noted, with the exception of the hospital that created a superfluous job for Michelle Obama wherein she actively pursued means to deny treatment to the indigent and underclass citizens of Chicago, it is illegal to deny emergency treatment to anyone. 
 
What is being referenced here are programs that are given to illegal aliens while being denied to American citizens and/or otherwise "unfairly" (to use the term liberally) distributed. Americans of course, can purchase the same programs given free of charge to illegal aliens ... for an added price … as we are already paying for the “free” stuff that is denied to us. 
 
Gerrilea Added Jun 6, 2018 - 8:14am
Johnny F-- Being proud we provide health services to children is nice but who pays for it?
 
Today, Zero Hedge has an article pointing out that by 2026, in 8 yrs those entitlement programs will be bankrupt. Social Security will be bankrupt in 2034, in 16 yrs.
 
We can't afford to keep giving stuff to everyone without paying for it.
 
 
Utpal Patel Added Jun 6, 2018 - 8:45am
Allow me to translate Johhny Fever for all of you, especially Rusty.  To the extent you don’t have insurance or don’t choose to pay, healthcare is free.  It’s free because no hospital can deny service to anyone.  By anyone, that means illegal immigrants, homeless people, those without insurance, etc. etc. 
 
If you believe the Left, they would make the argument that it makes financial sense to give healthcare insurance to everyone who can’t afford to buy it themselves.  They make that argument based on the fact a trip to the hospital is far more costly than an appointment at a doctor’s office.  In addition, they would make the argument that preventative healthcare saves money and one can’t obtain preventative healthcare without healthcare insurance. 
 
Based on those arguments and the fact we have a heart, it makes sense to simply give healthcare insurance to every child.  Do any of you have an alternative for a child with a nasty cough and in need of anti-biotics?  Or would you rather see this child infect the whole school?
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jun 6, 2018 - 1:49pm
"We can't pay our own bills and we aren't taking care of our own Seniors so  we have no right to give away free healthcare to foreigners before we fulfill our obligation to our own citizens."
 
You must admit that California and other wannabee utopias need votes and head counts to get more power and welfare funds from the federal  government. This article tends to undermine open boarders, universal voting, a cornucopia of crimes and other progressive measures. 
 
You are probably suggesting, in horror, that MS-13 persons should only have one vote as well. 
Rusty Smith Added Jun 6, 2018 - 1:52pm
Utpal Patel you are and have been correct for a long long time, anyone can receive free health care by walking into a hospital or most clinics without ID and saying you're indigent.  I've never not known that or denied it was true, but what we are doing today is equalizing the medical care they get so that it's as good as what tax payers and people who pay for their own medical care get in every way.
 
Hospital emergency rooms are very expensive ways to diagnose thins like the flu, but clinics are not and I'd much rather see everyone including indigents turned way from hospitals if they don't have a legitimate reason to be in a hospital instead of a clinic.  I want to eliminate that huge charge difference by denying everyone including illegals the right to stroll into a hospital for minor health issues, but as long as our poorest and illegals get treated that way, and have no copayment differential, we will continue to have that cost differential for those people.
 
Compare that to what has been traditional for those who are insured.  They usually have a doctor, and their waiting time is minimal.  If they choose to go to a hospital instead of the less expensive doctor's office they get charged a huge copayment if the visit does not result in hospitalization.  That discourages most people who have insurance from using hospitals for ordinary medical problems.
 
Now we've given insurance plans to illegals who are mostly indigent, and somehow expect they will care how much it costs and not continue going to hospitals because they think it will be faster.  
 
From what I've seen people who don't pay the bill don't care what it costs, and giving away free insurance to illegals will only encourage more to come here, if for no other reason than it makes living here even more attractive to them.  They also won't stop using hospitals since the cost is irrelevant to them.
 
If giving them free insurance doesn't inspire them to stop using the hospitals and attracts even more to our country, the savings you speak about won't be realized.
Rusty Smith Added Jun 11, 2018 - 11:56am
Utpal Patel I would rather illegals who can't afford to live here sent home, including taking their young children with them.
 
Young school children who are not citizens and their parents who brought them here should not be entitled to endless tax payer subsidized so they can continue living in the land of free milk and honey.
 
As I've said before my threshold would be the first time they couldn't pay a bill, then I'd send them home.
 
You used the example of an illegal family whose kid has a cough and might infect others at school.  If the family is in Southern California that kid is already consuming about $10,000 a year in tax funded educational costs, and now you're considering adding unlimited medical care that will also need to be paid for by taxpayers.
 
Our public schools scholastic scores suck and they say it's because we don't have enough money to do things right.  Our medical funds are spread so thin lots of our seniors can't afford their medicine.  I'm sorry there isn't a money tree we can use to save all the poor people from other countries, and I do feel sorry for them but I'm not willing to rob our own children's educations, and our seniors medical care funds so we can all become more equal.
Jeff Michka Added Jun 29, 2018 - 7:12pm
TraitorLynn rails against me personally because I keep talking about and questioning his treason, calling for the Union to be broken up, and how hypocritical he is whining about his "patriotism," and can't admit you can't have it both ways, so I'm the bad guy.  OK.  TL is just a cheap, characterless hypocrite, that hides behind his faith as much as Ryan Messano.  You folks let him get away with it,  he's a folksy Xtain spouting Texan.  The only thing bigger than his phony cowboy boots is his total bullshit.