Suicide Ain't Painless

Suicide Ain't Painless
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Book of James by (We Are) Augustines



Note: This is long and excruciatingly tedious. Please consider skipping it if you are pressed for time. 

I gave a link to a rock song about the songwriter's troubled brother, named James, who took his own life. The writer lists Bruce Springsteen among his influences, and anyone that can tolerate rock music, should find it accessible. It gave me the chills when I heard it. In spite of the band's name and title of song, they are not a 'Christian rock' act. I promise.



The sweet middle-aged pharmacist was chatting with me. She is matronly with a full face and large expressive green eyes. I was filling my prescription for levothyroxine. She had brought up the subject of depression, after I mentioned mood swings, as my dosage requirements fluctuated.


She told me about her son's struggle with depression, that began after a head injury. She grew more and more distraught as she continued. Eventually, she was sobbing as she related how her son had taken his life, one year ago.


Now, I don't consider myself fully competent at consoling grief-stricken people, though I may have held her if a counter hadn't been intervening. I leaned close to her and began to tell her about the brother that I lost to suicide. I had barely begun when my voice started to fail me. I fell silent as I struggled to maintain my composure. 


She told me all about her son's interests and achievments, and eventually recovered from her emotional crisis. She appeared to be ready to face the public when I took my leave.


The incident got me to thinking about those I'd lost to suicide, and reminded me of all the headlines and articles that I have seen on the subject, recently.


Joe was a homely and gangly young man. He was quick to laughter or wisecrack, and a hard drinking hard smoking partier and occasional fighter. A lot of people were unaware that he was well read and possessed quite an intellect. He had little luck with the girls, and I never told him, out of the few that he got, every single one had made a move on me, even the one that he married.


Joe was the engine, just as I was often the brakes, on our adventure-mobile. He was almost like another brother, and would often run with another of my brothers, when I was unavailable.


My wife seemed to despise my friends and family, and it was reciprocal. It was hard for me, but I discouraged him from visiting when she was home. We often hung out at his place. 


Then he met a fundamentalist Christian girl. He was madly in love. She was a member of some biker church, of all things, but Joe got some religion, and they got married and had a baby. I had never seen him so happy and contented.


Then things went to hell in a hurry. She threw him out of the house and used his cop-beating episode from years before to paint him as a dangerous man. 


I was as supportive as possible, considering my own dysfunctional marriage and the on-going alcohol fueled crisis. 


Then Joe announced a reconciliation. He had borrowed a large sum from his father to buy another house, because his wife had rented out the original house. I had reservations about that arrangement, and told him so, but he'd hear none of it. About a month later, she threw him out of the new house.


He came over and we were talking in the driveway. It isn't easy to be supportive when your wife comes out the door, periodically, to glare and then slam the door.


Joe related how she had maxed out the credit cards and cleaned out the bank accounts. He was allowed two supervised visits a month with his little girl. He descibed how members of her congregation had stripped all the appliances, and the plumbing and light fixtures, right down to the toilet paper holder. He had been terminated from his job for excessive absenteeism.


Joe was defeated and morose. I struggled to cheer him up and help him with a plan. I countered every defeatist statement. Nothing worked until I announced, "Road trip! You will be welding for someone else when we get back."


It seemed to work. Joe started reminiscing about some of our adventures and exploits. We were having a great time, especially under the circumstances. I was grateful that my wife had finally gone to bed, though she'd be sulking or miserable the next day.


After a week, I checked Joe's new house, but he was gone. At two weeks, I checked with his friend, the John Prine fan. He said that we know that Joe is unpredictable and was probably with an old girlfriend in Grangeville. I was somewhat relieved. 


Weeks turned into months, as my situation and turmoil kept me from giving it much thought. I did check with Joe's witch, who hadn't heard from him. She came on to me again, but this time I was repulsed instead of shocked, as I had been the first time. 


The following spring, I was uneasy when I saw on the news that a body had been recovered near the cliffs. Almost immediately, a relative called and said it was Joe's body. I had climbed those cliffs with him, but it wasn't for me, partly because clumsy people have no business climbing cliffs. I can't imagine Joe was in the mood for climbing. He was busted up, but I was told that he died of exposure. 


I was the last person who spoke with Joe, and I know, now, that he was saying goodbye. My brother, unbeknownst to Mama, would say goodbye to her, some years later, in a similar fashion. 


You'd think that a devastating loss to suicide would help prepare you for an even more devasting loss, but it doesn't. 


Some years later, I planned an excursion for my brothers and their families. Although I had a keen interest in the event, I had an ulterior motive of getting the brothers together, and cheering up the gloomy one. Only one brother was interested, and he bugged out at the last minute. 


A single nephew accompanied me, and we had a great time. I got a peculiar feeling of anxiety, so I decided it was time to make the journey home, a bit early. 


A relative informed me of the suicide, the minute we got home. 


We had fought like cats and dogs when we were young, but became thicker than thieves. Back in school, I was content with my books and records, but competition with him forced me to strive for more. I got a job because he got one. He did pushups, so I installed a pullup bar and did pullups and pushups. He bragged about kissing a girl, so I found a girl to kiss on. I couldn't compete with his shooting and hunting, so I ran a successful trapline, instead.


He was ever the bold adventurer, and I was playing catch up. I and another brother followed him to Texas. Later, I followed him to Wyoming, and got a third brother hired at the same project. 


Not too long after his death, I found myself in a terrible morass of debt and ruin. I sold almost everything I owned at the auction, in order to put a grubstake together. It got me back to Wyoming, and kept me in food and fuel until I had a paycheck. My late brother would have approved, since I was using his template.


I lost my confidant and the person that I trusted most in the world. My amazing, but troubled, brother was the person most like me in the world. If I can't match his abilities, I don't attempt to match him in carrying the weight of the world on my scrawny shoulders, either. 


Some brothers and friends will try to fleece you in trades and deals. We would argue and accuse the other of being too generous. He would make a fuss if I tried to give him something, even though he had fed me and let me live in his camper when I had no place to go. He rewired an old house that I had bought, after my wife left me because it was a 'firetrap.' In retrospect, I wish he hadn't come through for me, that time, because she did come back after the work was done.


I took a look where my brother had died. I was alarmed that little seemed to have been done, except to remove his body. I couldn't leave it like that for his kids. One sister offered to help me clean up. It was the hardest thing that I have ever done. Thank goodness my sister was there. I have an incredibly keen sense of smell, and cerebrospinal fluid has a peculiar odor that is powerfully strong. I would be overcome at times, and visit with my sister, who was occupied with ordinary housecleaning. I gritted my teeth as I used my pocketknife to pick every single bone fragment out of the ceiling. We discarded items that could not be cleaned. It took most of a day. I am still convinced that it needed to be done before his teenagers wandered over there, though another sister thought we were crazy. We left the place in good order, and reeking of Pine-Sol. I hope that if I ever leave a mess behind, someone cares enough about me to clean it up.


Although my brother was incredibly capable and self-reliant, it could be that I have become far more emotionally self-reliant. 


Many years ago, a rural county in north-central Washington state was having a fuss about all the suicides among farmers. Almost all of them were elderly, and suffered from a terminal illness. That is much different from my great niece's father taking his own life last month, or the teenage niece of a sister's partner taking her life last year.


A terminal illness, or an accident that left me unable to support myself, could cause me to cash in my chips, and head for the exit, I suppose, but otherwise, I get a lot of pleasure out of life, and am still seeking that great contribution to society that Mama said that I would make.


I can't be certain how I will go, but with a little luck, it will be by my own hand.



Pardero Added Jun 3, 2018 - 10:20pm
I got multiple drafts and multiple articles although I only hit 'publish' once. I promise.
'Like' every version. Maybe I can bury that arrogant pinhead Ryan Messano.
Bill H. Added Jun 3, 2018 - 11:36pm
Great article as usual, Pard!
Reminds me of a similar route taken by one of my best friend's sister some 20 years ago.
Bill H. Added Jun 3, 2018 - 11:43pm
Ryan has been a Fly in the Soup here on WB in the past. He has been banned from FB as I understand, so I suspect he will spend some time taking a shit here on WB for a while.
Pardero Added Jun 3, 2018 - 11:50pm
Bill H.
Thank you, Bill.
I wish that I wrote as well as you, but I hope to improve with practice, if my vocation allows enough.
It is so sad, and according to statistics, is on a rapid rise, especially among women who may reach parity with men, if trends hold.
Saddest of all, are the young people, who oftentimes, merely face a transitory situation. 
Jeff Jackson Added Jun 3, 2018 - 11:55pm
I once spoke to a "friend of a friend" in a bar a long time ago. His parents had been murdered in their home, and it was a real mess. Apparently there had been quite a struggle, and there was blood everywhere. I felt quite bad for him. I had an aunt who was murdered by a miscreant who struck her head many times, and then tried to cash checks from her stolen checkbook. She was unrecognizable at the funeral. He was incarcerated in the state penitentiary where my aunt lived, but from my tracking of his incarceration, he has been freed.  I have had two coworkers commit suicide, and, strangely enough, they were the two best friends I had in those companies.
Suicide leaves a lot of pain for those who live on without them. You wonder if there was anything you could have done for them. Losing friends and family is bad enough when they pass away, let alone when they pass away by their own hands. Maybe the world is just too much for some people. I have on several occasions just chucked things that I couldn't stand anymore. If you're alive, there are always options before leaving this world. If you're that unhappy, try to figure out what is making you unhappy, and lose them if you can, even if it hurts people. At least in that case, they know why you're leaving. Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 12:36am
Jeff Jackson,
Thank you so much for that heartfelt comment. I am sorry for your tragic losses.
Those are horrible experiences.
I lost another close friend in a tragic freak swimming accident.
Jeff Jackson- I have on several occasions just chucked things that I couldn't stand anymore. If you're alive, there are always options before leaving this world.
That was very well said. In a way, I have done that with my life. I have been wiped out several times, crippled up and needing surgeries, but clawed my way back, and reinvented myself each time. Mama liked a famous quote that goes something like this, "Where there is life, there is hope."
You are right about wondering if there was something that could have been done. If I had autonomy when I was married, I would have hauled Joe off on an adventure, and at least delayed his demise, until he had a chance to deal with his agony.
In the case of my late brother, he would probably be alive, if I hadn't gone on the excursion. Another relative interfered in his affairs while I was gone, creating the crisis that led to his decision. I could have prevented the interference, and averted the tragedy, at least temporarily. The relative that precipitated the tragedy, has not spoken to me for many years, perhaps out of shame, I don't really know or care. I can't forgive him for what he caused, if he won't speak to me. I might be the only one willing to forgive him, out of the entire family. That relative was involved in some other unscrupulous misdeeds, as well. His name is mud with most of the clan. I could help him rehabilitate his reputation and image, but he seems happy to be stoned and on painkillers 24/7.
I have helped guys out before, when I sensed that they were at the end of their rope and had no place to turn to. It is a blessing and a curse that people put so much trust in me, though I try to be worthy of it.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 4, 2018 - 12:56am
Pardero, having intimate experience with suicide it took me alot of courage to read your article. And it hurt like I thought it would.
But I am confiused. Is this your writing? or are you posting the writing of another?
Regarding the final line
"I can't be certain how I will go, but with a little luck, it will be
by my own hand."
Thats the problem, if you wait to long, it may not be up to you. For me,  Im hoping it will be a firing squad. That way I will at least get to have one last cigarette. I been dying to have one of those for a long time. I bet they taste quite good then.
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 1:26am
Mustafa Kemal,
It is mine. Every word. I have been sitting on it for some time. It wasn't easy to write, and I did shed a tear or two. At the last minute, I deleted many paragraphs because it was too long, and then added a few sentences here and there.
In many ways, it is written just the way I speak, except for the word 'unbeknownst,' which for the life of me, I was too dull and lazy to scheme on something better.
I am sorry that you lost someone this way. You mustn't second-guess and take any responsibility.
That makes it so much worse than the loss itself. We both know that you would console a friend or relative that was in despair. It would be out of character for you not to.
You are right about waiting too long. The Old Man knew his mind was going. He waited too long, and would up in an assisted living center in diapers, begging for ice cream. That don't work for me. Ain't happening.
LOL. I have been off smokes for 2 years. Damned right I am gonna smoke a cigarette if I face a firing squad, though I am more than reluctant to commit a crime that receives such a sentence. Maybe the buzz will deaden the pain. I'd hate to be barfing when I check out, which happened a few times when I first started smoking. Maybe they will let me vape. This stuff got me off tobacco.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 4:15am
A true great one. I often thought about suicide. When my parents both died within 2 months, when I simply couldn't find my way again between my lust for traveling, living and working wherever it gets me, and an orderly Swiss life, which I always found BORING since I can remember.
I imagined going up the mountain in winter with 2 bottles of vodka and a pack of Valium 10 and just......dose off.
But fortunately I didn't have the courage for it. What Jeff commented is frightening. I never experienced murder or anything as severe in my whole life (family or friends), no matter where I lived. I had some friends who died of overdoses in the 80ies, but that's about it.
It really seems that the US is a very aggressive society, when I read stuff like that.....
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 4:17am
BTW: Now, as long as I'm alive and have no pains, I'll cling to it. Because I'll be dead much longer than I was ever alive....
opher goodwin Added Jun 4, 2018 - 4:19am
One of my schoolfriends committed suicide. It had a huge impact on me and I still think about him. I met him the day before he did it and might have been the last person to talk to him.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 4:33am
I guess what has kept me from committing suicide 20 years ago was that I started to get involved with Africa. It's an immense relief when you know that you don't have only ONE place to live but can go to several ones and be welcome.
That's what I call freedom.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 4:36am
BTW: And it's NOT about money and security. When my "adoptive" family in Cameroon told me "you just come back papa with or without money, we manage somehow" this was one of the best days of my life. Such things show that one should never throw his life away.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 4:40am
BTW2: In december I'll be back there. And "Michael Jackson" and Bogos will finish school in Senegal, because schools are a lot better there than in Cameroon. I import these two bright kids - best in their class but .... in public school where they can't really make progress. And I guess their aunt will be coming too. To get some home feel in a new country....
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 4:41am
Footnote to the title:
Suicide IS painless. But not for the ones who love you. Never forget that,
George N Romey Added Jun 4, 2018 - 7:42am
As someone that has been there the best you can do is stay close to anyone in trouble and support them. When you are in that suicidal space it’s the darkest place imaginable.
Leroy Added Jun 4, 2018 - 8:01am
Excellent article, Pardero.
No one close to me has ever committed suicide.  I am grateful for that.  The son of a couple at work returned from Iraq.  He suffered from depression.  He committed suicide.  He seemed to be a good kid.  His parents are really decent people.  It had a big impact on me.
Suicide seems to run in some families.  A schoolmate's mom committed suicide.  Shortly after high school, my schoolmate's sister committed suicide.  He was a little weird.  Back in the days before neighborhoods were integrated, he used to wander around black neighborhoods at all hours of the day and night.  He was a redhead with fair skin.  He always wore long sleeved shirts to protect his skin.  He stood out like a sore thumb.  He seemed to have a death wish.  He committed suicide a few years later.  His father, in his old age, committed suicide.  My brother-in-law's mother committed suicide, followed by his wife years later.  In his old age, his father committed suicide.  There was speculation that they weren't suicides but was never proven.
The death that had the most effect on me was a college schoolmate.  He was one of the most decent people I have ever met.  He was the first of his family to graduate from college.  A handyman tied him to a chair and stabbed him seventy times.
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 8:02am
Thanks for the comments.
I have had some pretty low points, such as the one that you described. I was disappointed in myself for not recognizing the despair in another person, because I was familiar with it.
Sometimes, I think my experiences make me treasure the simple pleasures and the ordinary moments of life that are pain and grief free. 
I also lowered my expectations and threw out my previous concept of success. When I get my finances in order, I may attempt something grander, but I am relatively content with my reinvention as a truck driver, this time.
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 8:09am
Opher Goodwin,
Experiencing suicide at such a young age, would have had a huge impact on me, too. I am fortunate that I was a grown man when it struck so close to me.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 8:47am
I think my experiences make me treasure the simple pleasures and the ordinary moments of life that are pain and grief free. 
I'm not as far yet. I'm still on the "I want it now and I want it all" trip (although not on a materialistic base). Since I was 19 I always dreamt of having a little house on the beach, and now I'm getting closer to it. But then.....even it would eventually stay a dream, it makes me move and not giving up.
Isn't it funny how people in a land-locked country can long for the beach while people living on the beach love the mountains ? Hmmmmmm;-)
Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 4, 2018 - 8:53am
re"It is mine. Every word"
I am very sorry to hear about that. 
The suicide of ,my younger brother in 1977
 felt like my flesh and bones were ripped out of me. You bleed and squirm in pain. For six years after I regularly had a viral infection. It drove my mother insane. 
It did have its silver lining though: it was now damn clear there was only one trip through, and I was damn sure going to enjoy as much of it as I could. Moreover, the bond between my remaining brother and I  is extremely tight. We truly  know that what we have together is a treasure.     On the downside, we rarely speak of him -it is too painful.
If I could have you near me I would embrace you.
I send you my love.
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 9:10am
George N. Romey,
I would like to think that I have a sixth sense, after my experience, to notice when someone is in that dark place.
opher goodwin Added Jun 4, 2018 - 9:18am
Padero - it did. Jeff was a very gentle, talented boy. It affected me.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 9:25am
Sorry for that. I can feel with you. It might be a strange comparison but one of my kids in Cameroon died of Typhoid when I wasn't there. A loss is a loss, no matter how it happened.
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 9:26am
That is a lot of suicides. Sometimes, the statistics don't sink in, and personal accounts reveal the enormity of the problem.
That horrific murder is similar to the ones that Jeff Jackson described. I can't even imagine losing a loved one to a brutal murder. It seems much worse than a suicide. 
Thankfully, I have never known anyone who was murdered. 
opher goodwin Added Jun 4, 2018 - 10:25am
Stone - yes - I think family and being loved is fundamental to mental health. 
Suicide devastates those around, family and friends. It's a terrible pain.
TexasLynn Added Jun 4, 2018 - 10:43am
Wow... just wow... great post.  Thank you for sharing such a personal account on such a painful subject.  I was especially touched by your interaction with the pharmacist.  I suspect you realize that your encounter with her was a tremendous blessing, for both of you.  I hope you will continue to watch for such opportunities to console.
I must admit I have had very little exposure to suicide and pray to remain so blessed.
I have given thought to the religious (Christian) outlook of suicide.  Some believe it to be an unpardonable sin.  I'm not there based on my study.  God knows our suffering, and our hearts and His grace is sufficient.
Jeff Jackson >> Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
When I was a teenager, I went through that phase where I was a moody little ^&%$.  I was probably a couple of years into that when someone I respected took me aside and said something to that effect.  He recommended that I get up each morning and decide to be happy.  I tried it, I liked the results, and it stuck.  Later, when I found Christ (or vice versa) that became even easier.
Of course, my problem at the time was not chemical/mental, but rather that I suffered from being a dumb-ass; much more common and treatable.
When I've gone through the low points since then... I have looked at the big picture of eternity and can still have joy.  Granted, I've been relatively lucky/blessed health wise which will be harder to maintain as I grow older.  We each have our crosses to bear; physical, financial, mental, family, etc…
Pardero >> We left the place in good order, and reeking of Pine-Sol. I hope that if I ever leave a mess behind, someone cares enough about me to clean it up.
Not that this was a suicide, or to disparage the dead...
My mother lived with an aunt and uncle (she was orphaned) and the uncle got lung cancer (back in the 60s).  The doctors told him how he would die; that his lungs would suddenly fill with blood and he would drown.  It happened exactly that way one morning months later.  They were sitting at the kitchen table and he hurriedly jumped up and ran outside to die in the yard.  There was a man drowning... and his last thought was not to leave a mess in the house for someone to clean up.  Mom's description of how he thought to do that always touched me.
Again... great post.  Thank you.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 4, 2018 - 10:44am
Stone Eater,
re:"A loss is a loss, no matter how it happened."
I strongly disagree. I have lived through many deaths, but suicide brings in a lot of guilt. 
 It is a much more different experience, I guarantee you.
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 10:56am
Mustafa Kemal,
I am so sorry that you lost your little brother and glad that you are so close to your other brother. 
I have another brother who is naturally more aloof and analytical. He cares enough to have made a real effort to spend time with me. It has been good for him, too, to be a warmer person. 
I hope that someday, maybe by next year, when I am squared away financially, we can visit and hang out.
Take care, my friend.
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 11:12am
I am pleased that you left a such a detailed comment. 
I had some concern that Mama's beliefs would trouble her when my brother died, but it was not an issue. I have so many memories of Mama drumming into us "The only thing that you can't be forgiven for, is taking a human life." She may have arrived at a similar conclusion as yours.
My brother was a believer. Your research is reassuring to me, not because I'm a believer, but just in case. 
Your great uncle was an immensely considerate man after my own heart. I appreciate that anecdote very much.
Thank you, TexasLynn, for everything you have written.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 12:25pm
suicide brings in a lot of guilt. 
I understand that. But you see, very often one can't do anything to help people, even if one tries hard. Discuss, comfort, help. But some people have such deep depressions that you are helpless in the end. And then one has to be hard with himself and say: It's not my fault. I've tried my best. I know it's easier to say than to do, but it's the only way to avoid it taking you down too.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 12:29pm
Pur - Noch ein Leben
This song describes exactly what one can feel when a friend commits suicide. I hope that one or the other understand those German lyrics.
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 12:33pm
I was just writing something to you. I would love to visit your beach house when you get it, but I love the mountains the most.
Next year, I hope to visit a sister in the mountains of New Mexico. It sounds like a lovely climate.
I am checking your song. I know a few words from Nena's lyrics. Maybe I will get an idea of the meaning.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 12:36pm
I will he happy to welcome you. Senegal has a hot but dry climate. Probably comparable to Arizona...
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 12:51pm
Although I don't understand the words, it is a song with great emotional weight.
Title appears to be "still or yet a life".
I think this band once did a duet with Nena.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 12:56pm
It means "Another life". He sings: "I wish you another life wherever you are now. But you dind't give anybody a chance to help you. You have chosen your end by yourself, you did so much struggle with your life, but you didn't give anybody a chance to help". In that sense, somehow.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 12:59pm
BTW: I think Pur is a great band. But when I say I like them and their lyrics people tell me it's teenie stuff. Don't know why - they're excellent musicians, and although the singer is a bit pathetic at times, he's writing good lyrics overall.
George N Romey Added Jun 4, 2018 - 1:08pm
Financial depression caused by the loss of employment is the worse. Nothing can ease the horrific situation other than a good job. Obligations go on. You live in a world of endless unbearable stress. The ending of the pain-mentally, physically and emotionally becomes inviting. No surprise at the spike in suicides in the US. Despite the glowing jobs reports the number of good job is limited and real unemployment is said to still be in the double digits. 
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 1:14pm
My brother was in quite a jam, and had some chronic health issues, but he didn't give me a chance to help, just as in the song. 
With much justification, I am certain that he felt betrayed and grievously wronged by family members. 
Thank you for the song and translation.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 1:15pm
Financial depression caused by the loss of employment is the worse. Nothing can ease the horrific situation other than a good job.
It depends. This is the case when
a) people take a job and income for granted and
b) therefore get into debt and
c) define their personality through a job and the social status that comes with it.
It simply means that they define themselves not on their personality, but on the "value" they have on the work market. That can be fatal.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 1:20pm
BTW: I often advise people: Think about what you really NEED for a happy life. You can cancel out 80% of it when you reflect about it. Learn a new language. Learn to play an instrument. Start to write. Educate yourself on computers. Repair an old car. Take pictures and photoshop them to your gusto. All that costs less than following costly trends just to please your environment. Get creative.
George N Romey Added Jun 4, 2018 - 1:28pm
I’ve told young people never assume your experience and education will save you in your 50s unless your born rich. I tell young people never ever buy a house. Use public transportation and car sharing services. One child at the most. Live simple. Dress plainly, no fancy stuff. Make sure that if forced you could live frugally. I learned the hard way.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 1:28pm
Never forget that the same people who look up to you when you have a good job and salary will look down on you when you lose it. Don't give a shit about them. You don't have many friends in life, and the ones which you have when you're in the hole are the only ones who are worth it. And these are damn few in general. So - what's the use to follow that superficial game ?
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 1:34pm
I tell young people never ever buy a house. Use public transportation and car sharing services. One child at the most. Live simple. Dress plainly, no fancy stuff. Make sure that if forced you could live frugally. I learned the hard way.
Exactly ! But buying a house is not a bad idea. But ONLY when you can do it with cash, like in Africa. No mortgages. You pay the land and the house, and all that comes after are about $ 100 tax a year for your 99 year land lease. If you can do same in the US go ahead.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 1:34pm
BTW: I was in Miami once. Public transport ? Forget it LOL
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 1:37pm
Sorry, we're getting off subject here. My fault...
Katharine Otto Added Jun 4, 2018 - 1:55pm
Long, maybe, but definitely not tedious.  From the heart, as your posts usually are.  Encouraged a lot of personal revelations, supportive responses, honest questioning.  
I've never considered suicide because I'm a coward.  First, I would probably botch the job.  Second, I might end up someplace worse. This is a consequence of believing in timeless immortality.
From a professional perspective, I've learned that many who commit suicide never warn anyone.  The sense of loneliness and isolation drives them to despair, even if they are surrounded by people who love them.  Alcohol and drugs make things seem worse, and make people more likely to act on their impulses.  If they do tell anyone, the 24-hour rule is a good guideline, because many do change their minds if they are prevented from acting on impulse.  Mental health professionals are taught to ask about suicide, sometimes to the point of ridiculousness, but it allows people to open up.  Family and friends are often afraid to ask, even though they suspect something is wrong.  I agree with George that quiet support and presence are invaluable.
Unlike you, Pardero, I want to die in my sleep when I'm good and ready, essentially to will my way out of my body without artificial help.  
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 2:07pm
George N Romey,
That is an excellent point. 
I had to move where I could make a living, most of my adult life. I was unable to make a go of it in that country. My brother refused to go on the road or take a job that kept him away from his kids. He loved that country and life, far more than I ever did. 
He took some horrible low-paying jobs and was never able to get on at the good paying lumber mill. His health was a bit fragile to consider being a logger.
When I moved back up there for awhile, I ran a loader at a railyard for awhile @ 9 bucks an hour. Then I got on as a WG5 with the Corps of engineers. I rated a WG7 but that was the only opening. It was only an 8 month seasonal contract. I bolted for the Forest Service the next year, for slightly lower pay but more hours.
My brother got passed by in technology, and did not use computers, and never applied for anything that required an internet application. I never convinced him to get a CDL, which might have changed his life by giving him a decent wage. 
He was ambitious and supplemented his low wage job with crafts and forest produce.
I agree that a decent job and prosperity can change an outlook on life. My present job has extremely high negatives, but pays a living wage.
I am far more cheerful than when I had a pleasant, but much lower paying job.
Who can get much joy out of life when the wolf is always at the door?
I was making a deal on an ugly old mobile home mover truck at the time. My plan was for us to be partners in a mobile home moving and set up business. A dirty and somewhat labor intensive job, but easier than what he had been doing.
You'd think that you could get some roustabout work around here if you were between jobs. No way. 90% illegal aliens. The employers don't even seem to consider citizens, probably because the going rate of 12 an hour is too low. 
The high suicide rate during the Great Depression goes right along with your point about this fake economy. So many of the haves cannot comprehend the lives of the have nots. 
I have a well-off brother who didn't have a clue, but has gotten better about it. When I was down and out, he would sometimes make suggestions that sometimes frustrated me, because they cost money. How do you move to the jobs when you have no money and nothing to sell? First, last, deposits, fuel, and eating until you get a check, is a lot of money. 
When I am out of debt, I may consider buying my own rig or maybe a travel trailer. KOAs are expensive, too. Maybe live on BLM land and move regularly, at least in the warm months.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 4, 2018 - 2:11pm
re:"Next year, I hope to visit a sister in the mountains of New Mexico. It sounds like a lovely climate."
It is.
I hope you will visit me. 
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 2:34pm
That is all excellent advice. 
I thought I had it made a few years back, but the company lost their contract. After so many years of austerity, I got irresponsible because I thought the good job would never end. I am working my way out of that hole.
Land is extremely expensive, especially where the economy is decent. I may look into some alternative living arrangements when I am out of debt. It isn't like you can buy an acre outside of town and throw up a shack.
People of modest means without gov assistance, must live in run down apartments or shabby mobile homes with rotten floors and reeking of dog urine.
You should see the beautiful homes that the gov puts the 'poor' people into. It drives up rents. I can see an apartment, but not a big house. The gov involvement hurts those that do not get taxpayer help.
Neil Lock Added Jun 4, 2018 - 2:45pm
Pardero: Very moving. Thank you. Don't do anything I wouldn't do :-)
I did have one good friend who committed suicide. We never found out why. He was driving a newspaper truck at night, which is hardly a great job, but he seemed OK money wise, and he had just moved into a new home. Then one day he didn't turn up to our meet to go and play sport, and a few days later the police found his body in a secluded spot on a local common. Barbiturates and alcohol, they said. Of course, I thought "Could I have done something to help?" But it was too late.
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 2:48pm
Mustafa Kemal,
Oh yeah! Small world. There is a cool guy at Zerohedge named El Vaquero that lives there, too. He is a knowledgable self-sufficiency farmer.
They are in ranching country. West central. I forget the tiny town. Pretty remote.
My sister makes it sound wonderful there. I could even wind up in that part of the country if only driving a dump truck or trash truck. I might also consider a regional route if I got home regularly. They bought a little acreage and invited me to live there if I wish. 
I can't consider moving until I am debt free, but I am even more determined to visit next year. 
I won't even be a stranger there. New Mexico is calling me.
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 2:52pm
I thought you lived there, but you mentioned something about back east, and I was confused. You must have just been visiting back east.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 4:29pm
Thanks. That's what I thought. It's like Europe. You don't really possess what you buy. The banks own it.
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 4:45pm
Neil Lock,
Sorry about your good friend. 
I think men are expected to be strong and self-sufficient. 
It is a difficult thing to state that your life is a mess and you need some ideas or help. A man can get gloomy and beaten down, and simply not want to inflict himself on a friend or relative. 
There is nothing that you could have done, if he concealed his despair from you.
I knew why my friend, Joe, was despondent, but not that despondent. If I had the option, I would have fed him supper and put him on the couch. I don't know if that would have changed the outcome, or only delayed it. I have always held it against that shrew, that she hampered me from helping a friend.
I was pretty cocky when I was younger. I got humbled, and I think that I have a manner that makes me approachable by people who are struggling with their demons. Of course, there are a few that still see me as an arrogant goody two shoes, for God knows what reason.
I had an old friend timidly ask me if I could possibly help him move a car, last week. Of course I can, I told him. Turned out, it was for his other friend's car, while the guy was laid up in the hospital. 
A couple days ago, a guy at work asked me if I could spare a few bucks until payday. My wallet was empty, so I borrowed the money from another friendly co-worker for him. Unfortunately, some would take that as an opportunity to belittle. I expect to get it back. If not, no big deal. I won't dun him for it. I was flattered that I was, apparently, his first choice for a favor.
I think a lot of people put on their race face at work, and only reveal a part of themselves. Disclosure is risky, as you may have seen it used for vicious attacks right here on WB.
Sometimes a small kindness can reassure someone that somebody gives a damn about them. 
Maybe you recall the Californian whose car broke down on the highway. The suicide note said something like 'I have been here all day. No one will help me. I don't want to live in a world like this.'
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 4:57pm
'I have been here all day. No one will help me. I don't want to live in a world like this.'
When I was living in Bamako/Mali I caught an eye infection on both eyes which made me almost blind for a week. It was like having sand in your eyes, you open them and it hurts. 
I used to go to a coffee shop in the morning at about 8am, a shack rather where a guy sold Nescafe. So, the first day I caught that infection I couldn't go for the coffee.
At 9 am it knocked on my door. "Lassana, where are you ? Are you ok ? I was told you didn't come around for the coffee." 
It think this doesn't need a further explanation....
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 5:39pm
That is a delightful story. I see why the people of Africa have endeared themselves to you.
In America, I hear that the very wealthy get that kind of treatment at the expensive places that they stay at, though I will never know if it is true. Of course, your shopkeeper did it out of concern and kindness, not for a wage. 
Sometimes I think that many people believe that you are going to try to sell them something if you are too polite and friendly.
This is an unfriendly town. People from other parts of the state remark on it.
George N Romey Added Jun 4, 2018 - 6:27pm
Pard I’ve been checking out the Zeigest Movement. It’s about moving away from endless consumption and one sided competition and more towards a world based upon sustainability and letting technology doing the drudge work. However a think we would need a total epic fail before we have a once a 10000 year reset. I probably won’t see it but I think we are heading towards the end of markets and capitalism. Assuming we don’t destroy the Earth first.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 4, 2018 - 6:41pm
You see I've always been living WITH the people not beside them. And even in poor Africa they will eventually see that not every white guy is rich and accept you as you are.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 4, 2018 - 7:05pm
Pardero,  Yep, I think El Vaquero is in southwest NM. The way he talks, it is clear that he lives here. He has a sound realistic grasp on the sociological landscape. 
I have been around. I am working in Phoenix now, but my home for the last 30 years is north of Santa Fe on the high road to Taos.  I should be home by end of summer. We  have a small house, with a single  exterior room waiting for you.

re: Stone Eater's " see I've always been living WITH the people not beside them. And even in poor Africa they will eventually see that not every white guy is rich and accept you as you are."
I have always been that way too. Now all my neighbors are my relatives. LOL 
We have some wild stories to tell about when we all were alot younger and alot less wise. LOL again!
Dino Manalis Added Jun 4, 2018 - 7:24pm
 Depression has to be treated as quickly as possible before it worsens and leads to tragedies!
Leroy Added Jun 4, 2018 - 8:11pm
"I’ve told young people never assume your experience and education will save you in your 50s unless your born rich. I tell young people never ever buy a house. Use public transportation and car sharing services. One child at the most. Live simple. Dress plainly, no fancy stuff. Make sure that if forced you could live frugally. I learned the hard way."
I would add that if you have to marry, marry a practical spouse who shares the same goals.   Or, as my friend's father used to say, you can love a rich woman as well as you can a poor one.   I lived a frugal life most of my life.  I tried to never spend a nickel more than I had to on anything that I couldn't use in the future.  I kept the temperature high in summer and low in the winter to save money.   I drove my Corolla for 16 years, even after it was totaled and crushed a second time.  I was able to drive it for business, so I got reimbursed for mileage.  It was great.  People avoided me.  It's the only vehicle with which I made money.  I saved as much as I could.  Then I got married.  There went a lifetime of being frugal...LOL
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 9:19pm
George N. Romey,
Shortly, I will be reading about the Zeitgeist movement. Your description makes it sound like an idea I kick around occasionally.
Thank you for that.
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 9:21pm
I like that philosophy. I think that is roughly mine, even in the US.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Jun 4, 2018 - 9:35pm
Good article. Good discussion. This stands on its own and needs no further comment from me.
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 9:41pm
Dino Manalis,
I have done no research, but I get the impression that depression may be the most significant factor in suicide. I wouldn't be surprised if alcoholism plays a role, as well, or is self-medication for depression.
I think some people have a natural melancholy and sensitivity that makes them vulnerable to being overwhelmed by a crisis or disaster. 
I faced a series of hardships and disasters beginning about 25 years ago, that seems to have given me a lot of resilience. Everything seems like a walk in the park in comparison.
I believe that people are issued very disparate coping skills. I had to improvise, and found a way. Some people get beaten down and lose their skills to improvise, adapt, or make any effort at all. Rapid changes in technology and available jobs, catch some flat-footed. They made decent money, by the sweat of their brow, but the jobs don't exist anymore. They can't even consider something that requires computer skills.
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 9:57pm
Mustafa Kemal,
I am very likely to take you up on that, though not until next year. My sister and her long term significant other are in tiny Datil, west of Socorro? if I recall. That puts them about halfway between you and El Vaquero, maybe.
My traveling brother has visited the place, which he describes as pretty Spartan. My sister's partner makes his living writing, of all things. He is a really sharp and likeable guy. We really got a kick out of each other. They are strongly interested in self-sufficiency farming. Of course, I have an interest in that, too.
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 10:04pm
That is a fascinating account. I suspect that you did marry a practical lady. I regret that I did the exact opposite. 
You know, I made a profit driving disposable cars for many years. Sooner or later, someone would run into me, and I would pocket the cash. Sometimes literally a few bills, and we would part, both delighted with the transaction.
Call it a midlife crisis or giddy that my years of austerity were over, but I got carried away a few years ago. The good job ended abruptly. I hope to be out of the hangover hole by next year.
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 10:11pm
Jeffry Gilbert,
I am pleased and flattered that you took a look. I combined two ideas here and hoped it wasn't awkward. I still hope to write a proper homage for my brother, sometime, or maybe some anecdotes about some of his adventures.
Leroy Added Jun 4, 2018 - 10:41pm
"I suspect that you did marry a practical lady. I regret that I did the exact opposite."
Oh, hell no.  She's about to financially ruin me.
Pardero Added Jun 4, 2018 - 11:02pm
Dang! Sorry to hear that.
I happen to know that you are resourceful and resilient.  I trust that you can get things under control while maintaining the peace.
One of my sisters was that way. It sounds as though she has a real job, finally, after all these years. She no longer had a choice.
I wouldn't be surprised if she actually learns the meaning of austerity, and how dearly the money came to me, that I sent her.
I am back to austerity, and hope I can stay that way. My health is good, with some limitations. Maybe I still have time to put something together.
James Travil Added Jun 4, 2018 - 11:14pm
Excellent article Pardero. I've never known anyone who committed suicide although I have contemplated it myself after the death of my first wife and our eighteen month old daughter because of the actions of a drunk driver. We were kindergarten sweethearts, married right out of high school and had three children together over the years. We even shared the same birthday, and use to joke that we were secretly twins separated at birth. Losing her was like having a piece of my heart taken away. I for the first time in my life got into hard drugs and made some bad decisions that I won't get into here. I considered suicide on several occasions back then. Were it not for my surviving two children I think I would have done it. I certainly came close a few times. Thankfully my friends and family helped me get through it and back on my feet today although I still suffer from bipolar condition (& PTSD but that is from my time in the service). In any event keep in mind that we each only have one lifetime to live so make the best of it and don't waste it. That said I would never throw a useless emotion like guilt at someone who committed suicide. It's your life, your choice, no one else's. 
Pardero Added Jun 5, 2018 - 12:13am
James Travil,
Thank you so very much for sharing that with me.  
I am sorry to hear about that terrible tragedy. You have referred to it before, but the entirety of the ordeal is heartbreaking. It is far worse than any that I have endured. I have to give you a lot of credit for coming back from that, and the aftermath. You may have had some help, but it would take someone with great character to recover from that. We all have scars, but you refused to be crippled by the experience.
I am not surprised to hear that you have been down and out, just as I have been. We share that, and it gives us some humanity, that those who never stumbled or fell, may never have.
Shortly after I recovered from my divorce and ill health, and was working on my financial ruins, my brother took his life. Luckily, I had most of my mojo back and was able to console my ailing mother.
I pay my respects to the beautiful lives that you lost, and salute you for your uncommon compassion, courage, and character. 
Stone-Eater Added Jun 5, 2018 - 5:44am
Really sorry. I'm happy that you could work it out for yourself. Frankly, I wouldn't know if I'have that strength.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 5, 2018 - 5:45am
Sorry typos. Cellphone is too old :-(
Stephen Hunter Added Jun 5, 2018 - 8:06am
Pardero, an excellent and heartfelt article. It is very difficult to understand suicidal tendencies. I do think they vary on a broad continuum, and are somewhat inherent. Although circumstances can push people further towards the "why bother living" perspective. 
Pardero Added Jun 5, 2018 - 10:50am
Stephen Hunter,
Thank you for the comment.
If I recall, suicide is particularly prevalent among white males. 
Although white women are catching up, it could almost be considered a white male phenomenon.
My information from memory may be dated, but Finland and Washington State were leading in suicides.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 5, 2018 - 11:13am
Switzerland too. Could it have a connection to the fact that people in the West have too much time to THINK and are not occupied with bare survival anymore ? I guess so...
Pardero Added Jun 5, 2018 - 11:19am
You are on to something, there.
I will be on the road. I apologize in advance for long delays in replies to comments. 
opher goodwin Added Jun 5, 2018 - 11:58am
Pard - I think young males are so prone because they tend to have this hard front and lack of ability to deal with their emotions, or talk to others about them. They think its weakness. When they can't cope they opt out.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 5, 2018 - 12:14pm
They think its weakness.
Not today. We live in LGBTQNBCFYPL and PC time. A man is a woman and a whatever in between if hesheit wants to LOL
opher goodwin Added Jun 5, 2018 - 1:43pm
Stone - is that right?
Stone-Eater Added Jun 5, 2018 - 1:54pm
I think so. Google Conchita Wurst for example LOL
Dave Volek Added Jun 5, 2018 - 2:04pm
Sad article, but nicely written. I hope it provides some solace to you and the people around you. It is also an educational tool to help the rest of us figure out this crazy world.
I too once had a dark time in my life. People should not have to go in those places.
Pardero Added Jun 5, 2018 - 3:06pm
Dave Volek,
I am always pleased to read your comments and articles. 
I don't always leave a comment, because I have little knowledge in your specialties.
I am glad that you made it through that chapter of your life. I know what it is like. 
I am delighted to be on this forum with you, my Albertan friend.
Please keep up the grammar articles, I am a slow learner. 
Neil Lock Added Jun 5, 2018 - 4:01pm
Dave and Pardero: Every one of us has had dark times. I've been through the shadow too, back in February 1985. I quickly realized that, first, I didn't have the "courage" to kill myself. And second, that it would have been an utterly stupid thing to do.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 5, 2018 - 4:09pm
Seems that a lot of us here had some thoughts into that direction and gladly didn't succeed. If not, WB would be a deserted place LOL
Even A Broken Clock Added Jun 5, 2018 - 5:48pm
Pardero - I can tell you are putting your time out there in the Great Plains to good use as you await your loads to be emptied. What a personal story to share. Thank you.
Tubularsock Added Jun 5, 2018 - 8:41pm
Pardero ...... An excellent, powerful, straight forward piece of writing!
A subject matter that is part of almost everyone’s life on this plane.
I enjoyed your ability to put this all down so eloquently. Very impressive!
Most of Tubularsock’s friends that have taken this trip just ended up pissing Tubularsock off! Of course, it was too late for them to care.
The pain they expressed in the “act of doing” is a powerful reminder how the balancing beam of one’s life is so fragile and temporary.
As for Tubularsock, this road would NEVER happen. Tubularsock would rather “hang in” and be a complete pain in the ass than to harm himself. What fun is an early check-out anyway?
Tubularsock has PAID for the full ride!
Thanks Pardero.
Pardero Added Jun 5, 2018 - 8:56pm
Opher Goodwin,
I think you are right on the mark.
Pardero Added Jun 5, 2018 - 9:00pm
Neil Lock,
I would have never guessed. I have a theory that introspective people witth higher IQs are more prone to suicide. 
A lack of courage, or found the courage to face your demons, or forgive yourself for your failures?
TexasLynn Added Jun 5, 2018 - 9:06pm
Pardero >> I have a theory that introspective people with higher IQs are more prone to suicide.
Really! Oh crap! Wait a minute... and a higher IQ. OK... never mind. :)
Pardero Added Jun 5, 2018 - 9:06pm
Even A Broken Clock,
Thank you for dropping by!
This is another story that I resisted writing, but it wouldn't let me be. 
Pardero Added Jun 5, 2018 - 9:12pm
You are much too kind.
I am happy to hear that it not a possibility in your case. You are a singular and irreplaceable personality, even if occasionally infuriating.
Thank you for adding value to my article.
Tubularsock Added Jun 5, 2018 - 9:38pm
Shit, Tubularsock is going to have to up his game!
Pardero Added Jun 5, 2018 - 9:54pm
Pardero Added Jun 5, 2018 - 11:05pm
I missed that comment somehow.
I suppose there may be a small stigma for introverts. I am one in the main, but do a heck of an extrovert impersonation, occasionally.
Nobody's Sweetheart Added Jun 5, 2018 - 11:20pm
Pardero, this is without a doubt among the most touching posts I've ever read, period. Although victims of things like murders and car and/or motorcycle crashes are fairly sporadic, many more people have lost someone through suicide. I've known and loved several people that have killed themselves, in addition to others that I didn't. Although most suicides are very sudden, others choose to commit a very slow and gradual one.
Back in 2002, my then-girlfriend and I decided to walk back-and-forth across the Golden Gate Bridge. One of the things immediately noticeable were the signs posted at regular intervals reminding people that suicide hotlines were available 24/7, and I naively asked my girl WTF that was about. She informed me that the bridge was a well-known suicide span, which I found surprising, for some stupid reason. Fast-forward to 2006, when I watched a documentary film aptly-named The Bridge was released. Although the dude who made the film did it under false pretenses, his product was a very brutal, unflinching, and honest narrative of those who decided to jump off the bridge and their reasons for doing so.
Pardero Added Jun 6, 2018 - 12:31am
Michael B.,
That is high praise from you.
Luckily, you can't see me blush from there.
Suicide is so common anymore, and every one reminds of those I lost. The frontman of Augustines, William McCarthy, just lost a friend to suicide. A Scottish singer/songwriter, who threw himself in a river, a couple weeks ago.
For some reason, your comment reminded me of something. We lived in a house for a few months, one summer. Mama told me that the boy that used to live here was gloomy and sad, and that the mother had worried about suicide. I had heard the boy died, and was confused, so I asked if he killed himself. Mama said no, he died of stomach cancer.
Later, I was exploring a storage shed, and saw a spiral notebook in the corner. I picked it up and flipped open the cover, and first saw some doodles. Then I read the only words on the page. 
"Nobody loves me
everybody hates me
even the garden worm."
It was so creepy at the time. Although not a suicide, I filed it in that section of my brain.
You are right about the slow suicides. Many more of those than the sudden ones.
I am not ready for that film, yet. 
I am off work, finally, and can do better than a few words for a reply, or miss one in my haste.
Thank you very much for your valuable and informative comment.
Nobody's Sweetheart Added Jun 6, 2018 - 12:46am
Have a good shift Pard! Talk to you later, dude! : )
opher goodwin Added Jun 6, 2018 - 5:56am
Pard - my friend Jeff stepped off a bridge into the front of an express train right in front of a bunch of school kids.
I think he messed up a lot of lives. He was such a nice, pleasant boy - only nineteen. But he'd messed himself up with drugs and finally flipped on acid and went very paranoid.
That was fifty years ago. I still think about him.
The first thing I did as a Headteacher was to speak at the funeral of one of our students who hung himself. That wasn't an easy one.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 6, 2018 - 6:00am
There are bizarre things happening sometimes. I had a school friend who shot himself at 17 at home. He installed a gun which went off when someone enters the room, because he was sort of paranoid. One night he got drunk, got into his room and BOOM.
Apparently his mother never entered his room....
He did a good job, though. I mean not easy to install something like that and it WORKS.
Life is strange.
opher goodwin Added Jun 6, 2018 - 7:09am
Stone - how weird. Did he intend to or was it an accident?
Stone-Eater Added Jun 6, 2018 - 7:22am
I guess he had a mental problem, looking back. He just forgot in that moment of drunkenness that he installed it...
opher goodwin Added Jun 6, 2018 - 7:27am
Pardero Added Jun 6, 2018 - 10:02am
opher goodwin,
Those are terrible experiences. 
I suppose the last thing on suicidal people's minds, is the effect on others. 
I think acid messed up a lot of minds. It is hard to believe that it was promoted by the counterculture.
Pardero Added Jun 6, 2018 - 10:04am
Falling victim to one's own death trap is something I had never heard of.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 6, 2018 - 10:05am
Believe me, it was unique here as well.
opher goodwin Added Jun 6, 2018 - 7:11pm
Pardero - I think that certain people with a tendency to mental problems are prone to being pushed over the edge. I know of a number of casualties but most people experienced no ill effects.
When it comes to illegal drugs you never know what you're getting - the purity or strength.
opher goodwin Added Jun 6, 2018 - 7:12pm
I think when people get so depressed they do not think of others. They feel so worthless that they probably reckon it would be a weight off everyone for them to go.
Pardero Added Jun 6, 2018 - 7:35pm
opher goodwin,
All of that makes a lot of sense. 
Taking 'being considerate' to an extreme. 
I can tell that you have put a lot of thought into it. 
Perhaps the crisis merely pushed them to take action, but the underlying problem was already there.
Pardero Added Jun 6, 2018 - 7:41pm
I am dispatched to Colorado. I will reply and comment, as opportunities arise.
Thank you all for your interest and comments.
Will be back soon!
George N Romey Added Jun 7, 2018 - 1:41pm
Reports that suicide has increased by 25% since 1999 with the biggest rise in middle aged adults. As the “new economy” leaves people behind I see more and more people taking this way out. The prospect of losing a home, car and ability to sustain oneself is a very grim picture. Facing either homelessness or death you understand why what were productive and self sufficient members of society take this awful route.
Pardero Added Jun 7, 2018 - 2:31pm
George N Romey,
You caught me at a great time!
There has been a delay and I am staged at a lovely little town called Craig, Colorado. 
Unfortunately, I will have to go through the notorious tourist trap, Steamboat Springs, in the busiest part of the day, then climb the grueling Rabbit Ears pass in the heat of the day, in an inadequate 10 speed, with interstate gearing in the differential.
George, you have an uncommon empathy for a demographic that is often considered to have white privilege. We were taught to be self-sufficient, and to put our heads down and soldier on when faced with adversity. 
We were taught to live by the sweat of our brows, and that if we worked hard enough, we would be rewarded with at least modest prosperity. The same traditions and values that caused you to be industrious and honorable, conspire to have a man pass judgement on himself. Of all the possible fates, being a burden on family, friends, or society, must be considered among the worst.
It is easy for society to condemn the drunks, druggies, and degenerates for causing their own plights, but what of those with past injuries and limitations, and punitive child support, who struggle or are slow to adapt to a rapidly changing world, that no longer seems to value working men, or prefers illegal aliens for such things?
When I was growing weak from my diet of boiled potatoes, I was able to supplement my diet by grazing on snacks, that were somewhat plentiful in the lunch rooms at my 2 jobs. Then I chanced to bump into a young pastor, who invited me too take some meals at the men's breakfast. 
Pardero Added Jun 7, 2018 - 2:46pm
Small kindnesses, and large ones, can make a hell of a difference, when your luck seems to have run out.
George N Romey Added Jun 7, 2018 - 8:50pm
I’ve been there and many I’ve met. It’s a surreal experience and one that will haunt me forever. I understand how men that grew up in the Depression never felt financially secure even they ended very successful.
Pardero Added Jun 7, 2018 - 10:49pm
Joe was capable of earning a living under almost any circumstances. His was a crisis of the heart. 
My brother refused to uproot his kids or work away from home. There are positives and negatives to both approaches. In spite of the terrible tragedy, my brother's kids are probably better adjusted and more successful than most. He did something right, while he was able.
George N Romey Added Jun 9, 2018 - 5:12pm
Interesting two people this week that could have just about anything they wanted in life committed suicide. Then I think about myself and others, our dark days and at least for me still trying to recover financially with a long way to go. I don’t get. Did these 2 really understand their luck compared to others their age?
Pardero Added Jun 9, 2018 - 6:49pm
George N Romey,
So true, George! 
Maybe it is all relative. Those on higher rungs could not accept going down a few rungs?
Maybe they had a financial reversal, and wanted out before their status got degraded. Perhaps secret debt such as gambling. 
Depression can probably strike the affluent, as well as the poor, though minimal prosperity is a pick me up for me.
I hope to be out of debt in just over a year. This industry is a bit dodgy, I may bolt for somewhat lower pay with more security.
I don't ever want to be living on credit cards again, because I couldn't find a job at any pay rate.
Many places, you can place a laborer or handyman nickel ad, and make a few dollars, here and there. Not here, during the bust. 
It is expensive to live, even in the most modest of places. I owe around 20 grand, at medium to medium high interest rates. Paid off 10 grand, last year. Things come up, that cost money.
Too bad some evil bastards gutted the bankruptcy laws. You could have gotten a fresh start.
Get a CDL and always have a roof over your head. 
Hang in there, and don't be afraid to give a shout, if you can't catch a break. 
This state does not require driving school. Some employers are so desperate for drivers, they will give very basic training and send you to the DMV driving test.
You need a pretty clean license. 
If you ever got a demon kicking your ass, and you don't know if you are gonna get out of that fight alive, you run like hell, George, to the high ground. You hear?
Eric Reports Added Jul 16, 2018 - 8:45pm
Here is a quote from a movie:  "The dead know one thing.  It is better to be alive."
Pardero Added Jul 17, 2018 - 11:16am
Good one, Eric! I like it.
I have been on the road, sorry so belated on the reply.

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