The List of Subversives

My Recent Posts

A former WB contributor has rejoined WB in a big way.

 

I remember Ryan Messano as a fairly opinionated right-wing Christian. He and I exchanged a few dialogues back then, and I deemed it a waste of my time for further discourse.

 

I sense that he has been taking some unhappy pills since his last foray on WB. He seems to be more contemptuous of people with differing opinions than before. If I were to guess at his motive for his return, it is to make WB too uncomfortable for people he doesn't like. If they leave WB, they will no longer have this forum to exchange their views. Isolating liberals!

 

If I engage Ryan on WB, both of us will just be consuming a lot of oxygen for no real gain. We have nothing to learn from each other.

 

I have asked Ryan to put my name on his list of subversives. When his base eventually gains power, the list will identify those who need to be picked up, put in jail indefinitely, and possibly disappeared. When people like me are no longer around, the rest of the citizenry will be in fear of Ryan and his crew. This has happened many times in history, and it's not hard to see history repeating itself.

 

Here are my subversive activities for the WB record:

 

  • I see Ryan as an aspiring caliph of an ISIS in infancy, except ISIS is Muslim and Ryan is Christian. But both movements have the same motive: power and control over others. The holy books can justify this control.
  • I am not a Christian.
  • I do not regard the founding fathers of the American constitution as saints. They were racists, misogynists, and elitists. They really didn't give a damn for the masses. While their philosophical deliberations did result in a higher level of "democracy" that the rest of the world learned from, the constitution is still scarred by the negative traits of the founders.
  • The 1787 constitution is failing the USA. It is time for Americans to start building a new constitution. I have written a book about what this new government should look like and how to peacefully move from here to there. My book is indeed a treasonous act for those who believe the constitution is holy document. 

So it would be a great honor for me to have Ryan put me on his list of subversives. He has a website where he can attack me in so many ways. And he won't have to borrow articles from other right-wing sites; he can claim his cavilings against me as his own original work.

 

That should help sell a few books!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Comments

Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 6, 2018 - 1:22pm
Dave,
For some time now I thought Ryan Messano was a pimply adolescent using his moms computer without her knowledge or permission.
On Google search I have found one in Vallejo who is indeed an adult (legally) but if you watch
 
Ryan Messano thrown out of court
the action starts at about 16:45 mark. 
 
Im not sure I approve of why they threw him out, but you can watch the same pontificating, angry righteous demeanor.  He used  the term "ahistorical" but I didnt hear him demand that the Judge prove that he read "5 biographies of the Founders" before establish his legitimacy in the proceedings.
 
Clearly, in addition to being Islamophobic he is also homophobic and uses the same rant method filled with vitriol "den of homosexuals"
"no business ....." etc.
 
Mustafa
 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jun 6, 2018 - 1:33pm
"I have asked Ryan to put my name on his list of subversives."
 
Good, WB has to remain fair and balanced and void of ugly subversives with rigid opinions. Let purity reign. 
Dino Manalis Added Jun 6, 2018 - 1:33pm
 Just express your opinion and forget about changing anybody's mind, because you're wasting your time.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 1:34pm
Good thing the Founders gave us free speech.
 
That way corrupt and uninformed men like Dave and Mustafa are harmless to enforce their tyranny on others.
 
The women in a society aren’t the problem. It’s degenerates like Dave and Mustafa, who can’t see straight, and alternate between scorning, scoffing, lying, and out right tyranny.
 
You are a lightweight intellectual,Dave, and a moral midget.  Go doc yourself before you try to evaluate others.  
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 1:51pm
Poor Mustafa, Lol.  Go take your happy behind to the library and read those five biographies.  
 
Ben Franklin knew your type well:  Here comes the orator, with his drop of reason and his flood of words. 
 
YOU ATE SO PATHETIC YOU CANT EVEN GET A SIMPLE GOOGLE SEARCH RIGHT!  
 
I wasnt thrown out of court, you totalitarian loving libertine.  It was a city council meeting, and a lesbian was being appointed to a city office.  
 
Since SCOTUS had no legal right to legalize homosexuality or homosexual marriage, it was fair for me to condemn a behavior they commended.  The dictator/mayor, who, like you has absolutely no comprehension of the Kinsey Report that sabotaged us, called the chief of police and two police officers to remove me for the high crime of condemning homosexuals, when homosexuality is a crime against nature.
 
This just shows you are a corrupt degenerate.  If you don’t understand homosexuality is a crime against nature, you are completely irrational, implacable, and a reprobate. Get your dictionary out again.  
 
Keep reading, Mustafa.  It was in the paper that I publicly asked the mayor if he read five biographies of the Founders.  Of course, he hadn’t, and deftly tod the time keeper to put thirty seconds back on my time.  How you can be an elected official or a voter and know nothing of the history of your nation is flat out frightening.  
 
Its pretty scary that you mangle a google article you read today.  No wonder why you can’t comprehend history, you can’t comprehend the present either.
Dave Volek Added Jun 6, 2018 - 1:57pm
Mustafa
 
Amazing video. On one hand, it showed a civil part of America that seldom gets the attention it deserves. Then it shows a part of American that is above the rules.
 
Ryan
Have you put my name on your list yet?
 
 
Riley Brown Added Jun 6, 2018 - 2:08pm
Permit me to speculate that if the WB Ryan is the same person who was in the video, and he has his own list of subversives, my name is at the top of the list.
 
That said, this is WB and Ryan might not even be a man.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 6, 2018 - 2:12pm
Ryan, re:" two police officers to remove me for the high crime of condemning homosexuals, when homosexuality is a crime against nature."
That may be, but I dont think it a crime in the US. This not Saudi Arabia
 
I think you are confusing what is ":right" and what is "legal"
 
re:  It was in the paper that I publicly asked the mayor if he read five biographies of the Founders. "
You did? Far out!  I was kind of suprised that you hadnt pulled  that out in "court"
 
BTW, I dont think they had the right to shut you down.
 
Some people are  very intolerant and many of those dont have a sense of humour.
 
Mustafa
 
 
Pardero Added Jun 6, 2018 - 2:29pm
Ryan- "totalitarian loving libertine."
 
That is an oxymoron. No doubt, you are a bright guy, but you are slipping, when you write such nonsense. 
 
Your intolerance is polarizing people. You have shoved me, Mustafa, Dave, and Riley into the same camp, which probably bothers Riley more than it does me.
 
You have a right to attempt to influence society, but not to judge who are God's lambs and Satan's goats.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 2:39pm
Yes, Dave.  And the media hides these confrontations from the population to keep the population quiet and manipulated.  That’s why I started my news site.  Got sick of the lamestream media continually lying and manipulating the narrative, suckering tens of millions of Americans.  
 
An attack on my First Amendment rights is an attack on every Americans First Amendment rights.  Yet, Mustafa somewhat originally cheers it, not realizing what it portends for him.  Slaves often go ahead and enslave others.  They’ve never learned to think for themselves.
 
Kindly name the five biographies of the Founders, Mustafa, you keep repeating half truths.  Homosexuality was just illegal in 2002, before a rogue SCOTUS illicitly legalized it in the 2003 “Lawrence vs. Texas” decision.  
 
Thank you, I appreciate it.
 
 
Bill H. Added Jun 6, 2018 - 2:43pm
Homosexualty was misunderstood in past history, and therefore condemned by simple minds and various interpretations of the bible. There are still those who refuse to recognize that it is a normal function of nature applied to control populations and food availability for many herding animals and fish. Based on Earth's present population and food issues, it is no surprise to me that ratios of human homosexuality are on the increase.
I neither condemn nor endorse anyone's different sexual preferences, but accept them as they are.
Live and let live.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 2:53pm
Sex outside of marriage is slavery for individuals and societies, Riley.  
 
Doesn’t  matter what you think of it subjectively.  History always proves this.  J. D. Unwin, a British agnostic anthropologist proved this in his 1934 Lost Sex study. 
 
Zimmerman’s “Family and Civilization” proves this too.  
 
As does Toynbees “A study of history”
 
90% of Americans have never read these.  Too busy with hellivision, drugs, and porn.  
 
I’m a man, Riley, though I’ve never confirmed your birth gender.  No offense, but I think I can be pardoned for wondering.  I think you were born a woman by your tone and feminine manner.
 
Pardero, totalitarian loving libertine is slavery.  
 
I didn’t shove Riley into the same camp.  
 
There are absolute truths which are ignored to the destruction of societies and individuals.
Dave Volek Added Jun 6, 2018 - 3:05pm
Ryan
Am I on your list?
Doug Plumb Added Jun 6, 2018 - 3:08pm
Jesus Christ didn't hate fags. I don't know why people think that Christians hate fags or why some Christians do in fact hate them.
This kind of thing should never be something that is celebrated. Let the fags have a bar on the outside of town so that they are not seen by children and adolescents.
No one can argue that this isn't some kind of illness. Its laughable when people try to.
Doug Plumb Added Jun 6, 2018 - 3:12pm
Ryan is right on that linked video, America hatred runs wild everywhere. America is the world symbol of freedom and this idea of freedom and the same laws for all isn't compatible with Jewish Supremism.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 3:15pm
Thank you, Doug.
 
Dave, you are hyperventilating.
 
The only list you are on is that of paranoid conspiracy theorists that think the gubmint blew up the trade towers on 9/11. 
 
 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 3:19pm
WB is a great demonstration of the effectiveness of the first stage of brainwashing.  Demoralization.  Many have been taught to hate America.  These are the people who know the least of American and world history, and the ones who have very few moral standards.  
Deepish Thinker Added Jun 6, 2018 - 3:25pm
Dave, I think that perhaps you should reconsider your stance. 
 
Remember that when you engage with an ideological opponent in the comments section the purpose is not, or at least should not be, conversion of that person, which is a spectacularly unlikely outcome.
 
Instead the two of you are competing for the hearts and minds of the audience.
 
You may never change Ryan's mind on a single issue, but if you state your case well, you may win over some other readers.
 
That is the real prize.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 6, 2018 - 3:33pm
Ryan,
re:"I’m a man, Riley, though I’ve never confirmed your birth gender.  No offense, but I think I can be pardoned for wondering.  I think you were born a woman by your tone and feminine manner."
 
Dude, i normally dont give advice, but you need to get a grip.
 
 If you want to play that game, when i saw that video, one of the first things I thought was that some friends of mine would have said you are homoesexual "by your tone and body language"   They would then say the reason for your anger is that you are a closet homosexual. 
 
But let me say this again:
 I dont think they had the right to shut you down.
 
Some people are  very intolerant and many of those dont have a sense of humour.
 
Mustafa
 
opher goodwin Added Jun 6, 2018 - 3:45pm
Mustafa - well that video clearly shows up Ryan for what he is a homophobic islamophobe - pretty sick and intolerant. I hope I'm on that dissident list too! I'd hate to be left off. I think all intolerant bigots should be shut out.
opher goodwin Added Jun 6, 2018 - 3:48pm
Doug - homosexuality isn't some kind of illness. It's an expression of sexuality. I thought America was the land of the free - just free to be the same eh? If you don't think or believe like me you are shit? Some freedom!!
Dave Volek Added Jun 6, 2018 - 3:56pm
Deepish Thinker
 
Thanks for the feedback. It is another angle worth considering.
 
I think I have a pretty good reputation around WB as a reasonable and civil thinker.
 
There is an old saying: "Arguing with __________ (put name in blank) is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. Both of you get dirty, but the pig loves it." My next best alternative was not challenge this individual at all.
 
So I took this comical approach--and it gave me a chance to plug my book a little.
 
 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 4:03pm
Mustafa: Five biographies.  Other than that, You have two ears and one mouth for a reason.
 
So you can listen twice as much as you talk.
 
Ive never been attracted to a man in my life, never mind acted on it.  So, evil surmising.  You have uttered fleets of lies, and are repeating the psychobabble that those who oppose homosexuality must be homosexual.
 
 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 4:17pm
Opher: Wins the Identity Politics Olympics!!
 
congratulations!  Well done! A fine performance! 
 
Its funny, Many of the men are worried about dissident camps, when you are a slave of your own desires, and are in a worse dissident camp than any a human can put you in.  That’s what you should worry about.  It’s sad the truth that liberates appears more frightening than the slavery you are currently in.  Your minds have you deceived so badly you honestly think having your wicked personal habits attacked means you are in danger of concentration camps.  No different from 2,000 years ago.  The Romans thought that Jesus telling them about their sins was treasonous and he was trying to overthrow their empire.  You are repeating the mistakes of the past.
 
Dave Volek Added Jun 6, 2018 - 4:17pm
Mustafa
 
I don't think they had the right to shut you down.
 
This response is indeed worthy of more discussion. I too thought the council should have let the person rant a little longer. I'm not sure they gave him the usual three minutes as per the rules of this council.
 
Having said that, it is doubtful whether the final decision would have been any different whether the person was shut down as he was, given the full three minutes, or allowed to dominate the meeting for the rest of the day.
 
And there may have been some prior history between the council and the person in question. Maybe the council had lost their patience--and needed to make a more dramatic statement.
 
If the shoe were on the other foot--meaning the citizens had chosen councillors with mindsets similar to the person in question--I have to wonder whether the right to free speech would have been granted to the same degree.
 
Several years ago, I had to chair a public meeting and a person with an uncivil agenda went on a rant about her version of how to make the world a better place. I could see many in the crowd very unhappy with this ranter, yet she deserved some time to express her opinion. So there was a balance I had to strike. But it was clear she would have ranted for hours if she was given the green light. 
 
After about five minutes, I interrupted her and gave her some options. In particular, our organization didn't have the decision-making authority to make the changes she wanted. I said we had other things to do that night. She seemed to accept it. She stayed quiet the rest of the night.
 
I was thinking of asking for a motion to limit debate (Robert's Rules of Order) to put a time limit on her rant. But people in general are not the appreciative of the higher-ranked motions of RRO. I think I made the right call with just stomping on her. But these cases are always a judgment call; no one really knows what the right thing to do actually is--until one tries something.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Jeff Michka Added Jun 6, 2018 - 4:18pm
Seems Ryan is pressing on, making "friends and converts" on WB
Jeff Michka Added Jun 6, 2018 - 4:22pm
Ooops, I'm waiting for his old drug use accusations to be thrown at folks like Pard, Mustafa and Riley.  Ryan hasn't fully ran through his "Greatest Hits", yet. 
 
And hey, if Volek has been added to Ryan's "Official Enemies List," then if I'm not on it, want to be. 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 4:28pm
lol!  Dave complains about being suppressed while pondering how to suppress ideas he doesn’t like and that aren’t popular.  No hypocrisy there!
 
and, FYI, there was a prior history.
 
Free speech wasn’t created for you.  If the Founders has had your morals and your virtue, our nation would have disastrously ended in two decades and gone the way of the French Revolution.
 
”The Constitution was created for a moral and a religious people.  It can govern no other”.
John Adams
 
The Founders, unlike you, realized that without virtue, liberty was impossible.  You don’t understand how all the problems we face today are linked to a lack of virtue.  
Dave Volek Added Jun 6, 2018 - 4:31pm
Ryan
You have your own website and you can build your own list of subversives. I would be honored to be on that list.
 
Pardero Added Jun 6, 2018 - 4:59pm
Ryan Messano,
I do not believe that dissent, or disagreements with American foreign policy, is "America hating." Maybe you recall who said "dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
 
Some of the writers, that you are likely referring to, express fondness for most of the American people and culture, and seem to reserve their criticisms to specific policies, actions, and individuals.
 
Patrick Buchanan and Ron Paul offer much criticism, but are considered truly patriotic.
 
We seem to be on a similar course as the Roman Empire, or a combination of Roman and Byzantine fates. 
 
Around 1914, the highest percentage of church-goers, and arguably, the most traditional and conservative of societies, entered a war that they lost. That society was ripped apart after the war. A facade of a return to tradition and conservatism was imposed by the next regime, though I don't know if such an imposition would have lasted. 
 
Short of a theological dictatorship and extreme statism, which is proven dangerous, I don't know what you can do, except to sway some minds to traditional morality and norms, which is best for families, societies, and nations.
 
I don't believe that Drudge's homosexuality destroys his objectivity any more than his Jewishness does, though I am sure that they both play a small role. Drudge has no requirement to be objective. 
 
It is possible that increased tolerance and acceptance of deviancy has led to more of the same. I don't believe that it is fair or wise to condemn decent and honorable people, just because they possess a little tolerance. 
 As for John Adams's "Moral and religious", agreed, but I prefer moral and spiritual.
 
Years ago, I read something written by a Roman, in which he lamented the degeneracy and depravity, and feared for the empire. 1500 years from now, someone may read ours.
 
A collapse, and hard times afterwards, may be the only thing that can bring back old-fashioned morals and values. 
Jeff Michka Added Jun 6, 2018 - 5:04pm
Ryan still hears the Founding Father whisper about how they really wanted to have a State church.  One that Ryan can't be thrown out of. 
Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 6, 2018 - 5:23pm
Dave,
re:"This response is indeed worthy of more discussion. I too thought the council should have let the person rant a little longer."
Indeed,  i couldnt agree more. It was somewhat interesting to watch how intolerance cuts both ways. Mainly it just cuts.
 
thanks for the post.
 
BTW, here is another unfortunate consequence of  Ryan and his adhominen filled rants. One cant get to the next level on anything.
 
He is still stuck on "prove you have read 5 biographies"
 
Lets pray to God he has no children.
Can you imagine?
Mustafa
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 5:30pm
It's amazing and astounding how a lazy intellect will talk up a storm to avoid doing the necessary work necessary to get ahead in life.  If they simply did the work instead of talking, they would already be where they need to be. 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 5:32pm
"There is nothing more frightful as ignorance in action"
Goethe
 
His Faust was a masterpiece.  Recommended for every man to read and understand. 
 
.....All this the world well knows, but none knows well,
To shun the heaven that leads men to this hell.
Shakespeare Sonnet 129.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 5:33pm
Dave, when your opinion corresponds with virtue and wisdom, you will be shocked to learn that the only thing subversive in these parts are your own uninformed and corrupt opinions.
 
"No witness is so dreadful, no accuser so horrible as the conscience that dwells in the breast of every man"
Polybius.
 
You hate me because I expose you.  Your own conscience agrees with me, and so you are furious.
Jeff Michka Added Jun 6, 2018 - 5:35pm
The rumor mill has it, Ryan and his partner Vinny have a nice 6 lbs 7 oz Turd, passed a little time after they were released from the Culture War POW camp right after Trump's election.  Further rumor has it, the happy trio are expecting another delivery soon!  The turd fertility treatment Ryan had was a success.  They got the fertile turd start inserted far enough into Ryan for a good take.  Now they are both out of that POW camp, Ryan won't be forced to have an abortion he doesn't want.  LOL
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 5:46pm
Now, let me respond to your furious diatribe which was a masterpiece of libel and false innuendo.  Men who do not take care to learn history often don't care much about the truth either, and you are proof of both being true.
 
"I remember Ryan Messano as a fairly opinionated right-wing Christian"
Yes, that is me.  I didn't realize having opinions was a crime, but I'm apparently guilty of thought crime.  You cherish your safe spaces.
 
As for unhappy pills, Ignorance is bliss.  Oedipus suffered to learn the truth.  Are you willing to?
 
The Democrats are nearly communist, yet Dave is barking up the wrong tree.
 
Here is the difference between Islam and Christianity, since it's apparently hard for you to distinguish. 
 
America was founded by Christians, for Christians, though you are an ungrateful wretch and reject the gift of spiritual liberty given to you.  Why don't you move to the biggest atheist nation in the world, China?  They will teach you to appreciate Christianity.
 
You do not know much about the Founders, and have never read just five biographies of the 204 Founders.  So you rejection of them is more what you don't know than what you do know.  They weren't racists, misogynists, and elitists.  While they had faults, they were faults of ignorance, much like yours today, except they understood virtue and you don't.  Its sad our nation is infected with men like you who rarely understand what you condemn.  The Constitution isn't scarred at all.  You simply don't understand it's principles.
 
The 1787 Constitution isn't failing us at all.  You are failing America by failing to comprehend virtue, wisdom, and our history, and so are running around with a 4 X 4 in your eye, desperately trying to remove the speck from your brothers eye. 
 
 
 
 
TexasLynn Added Jun 6, 2018 - 6:30pm
I don't know the WB history of Mr. Messano, but it's hard for me to take complaints like this seriously so long as anyone commenting here would even consider replying to the likes of resident troll, Jeff Michka.  Ryan Messano could take a figurative dump on every thread on this site and not come close to the ^%&^ that comes from that troll on a regular basis.
 
I disagree with Dave quite often, Opher all the time, and Riley rarely.  Poor Mustafa has been one of the very few people on WB to face my all-out wrath (and on his first post, no less).  Pardero and I generally get along, though I suspect (that we suspect) there are a few differences lurking below the surface between us.
 
And as for Ryan Messano and my very limited exposure... I suspect there's a bit he and I would agree on and a bit we would not.  Big surprise there.  As with everybody, I'm always looking to sharpen my views, exposure, outlook and debating skills.
 
Dave >> If I were to guess at his motive for his return, it is to make WB too uncomfortable for people he doesn't like. If they leave WB, they will no longer have this forum to exchange their views. Isolating liberals!
 
Since Autumn is kind of a dictator (benevolent as she is) of this site, I don't see how that's possible unless she decides that's what she wants.  My experience has been that she errs on the side of free-speech (even when abusive); and we've all skirted that line (some more than others).
 
Dave >> When his base eventually gains power, the list will identify those who need to be picked up, put in jail indefinitely, and possibly disappeared. When people like me are no longer around, the rest of the citizenry will be in fear of Ryan and his crew... I see Ryan as an aspiring caliph of an ISIS in infancy, except ISIS is Muslim and Ryan is Christian. But both movements have the same motive: power and control over others. The holy books can justify this control.
 
Has Ryan really advocated for a Christian "caliph" or is this a "poetic license" of sorts?
 
While radical Islam seeks such domination; I've never seen Christians espouse such a thing.
 
The followers of Christ thought that was exactly what He was bringing until Pentecost, when they realized His kingdom was strictly spiritual (not physical).  Not restoring Israel to the former physical glory days of David and Solomon where precisely why the Jews rejected Him as their messiah.
TexasLynn Added Jun 6, 2018 - 6:30pm
Dave >> This has happened many times in history, and it's not hard to see history repeating itself.
 
It has Dave... but rarely from "Christians" or the "right".  As a rule, this almost exclusively happens with secular left tyrants and more recently from fascist Islamists.
 
Is Ryan Messano THAT close to achieving his "caliph"?  Did I miss a news cycle, or have we moved into TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) territory?
 
As ...
1) a right-wing conservative
2) a Christian
3) One who disagrees with the LBGT agenda (much of which Riley has written against)
4) One who despises what Islam has wrought upon the world (and places the blame squarely on Islam)
5) One who regards the founding fathers as (not perfect) but ahead of their time in the creation of government that values and protects liberty
6) One who considers the Constitution as the greatest man-made governing document every written
... I question if you guys think I'm plotting that "caliph", if I'm that homophobe, if I'm that Islamaphobe?
 
A few more observations...
 
Dave >> He has a website where he can attack me in so many ways. And he won't have to borrow articles from other right-wing sites; he can claim his cavilings against me as his own original work.
 
Anybody with $5.95 a month can have a website.  There are free options also.  How is a web-site a magic bullet to domination or even a fatwa against you personally?  Even if he specifically attacked you on this website; how do you know anybody is seeing it?  Sounds a little paranoid to me.
 
Dave >> The 1787 constitution is failing the USA.
 
No sir.  WE have failed the 1787 Constitution and the founding fathers.  It's likely too late, but we could turn things around by returning to the original tenets of said Constitution.
 
I do not believe the Constitution to be a holy document... since it was derived by men; but it is far superior to all other governing documents ever written.  Two things greatly attribute to that superiority; 1) acknowledging unalienable rights, and 2) acknowledging the fallen nature of men (and thus their governance) and seeking to check that nature.
 
I cannot imagine (given the state of society) that there would be any hope of improving on our Constitution.
 
Dave >> I have written a book about what this new government should look like and how to peacefully move from here to there. My book is indeed a treasonous act for those who believe the constitution is holy document.
 
That is quite an accomplishment, really.  How many men in history can claim such a feat? 
 
Given the protection of speech and the press, how would it be considered a treasonous act?  Has Ryan (or anybody) said directly that your writing is a "treasonous act"?  But, disagreeing with you is hardly calling you treasonous?  If so…
 
To be honest, when I surmised your system did not define certain unalienable rights (speech, assembly, religion, arms), I didn't see much need to go any further.  Nothing personal, that's just a non-starter for me. 
 
My skeptical side also believes your system puts too much trust in the good nature of men coming through and making it all work.  All of history tells me, that leads to disaster.  Again, Dave, just an honest observation.
 
Whoever wants to, can put me on their list of subversives or @ssholes or whatever.  Form whatever little caliph you want.  But when it’s time to deal with me… bring friends (please bring Mitchka)… come armed… because “I’m your huckleberry.” :)
 
Conclusion: From reading Ryan’s comments… he’s a bit abrasive.  I would say “I hate that” but then a few of you would choke to death, and I don’t want that on my conscious. :)
 
wsucram15 Added Jun 6, 2018 - 6:47pm
Ryan...
You just love to get everyone all stirred up on here...
If you are accusing him of a crime, the claim about you must be false and still made in a way that damaged you publicly. I dont think this would meet the test in a criminal court.  To recover anything civilly he had to have causation and again you had to suffer damages.
But I am pretty sure you know this part of civil law having dealt in it for many years.
But your other points are interesting.
What have you been up to?   How did your primaries go..I know you were preparing for a run this term. How did you do?
 
Neil Lock Added Jun 6, 2018 - 7:14pm
Ryan Messano: corrupt and uninformed men like Dave and Mustafa.
 
Dave is not corrupt. Mustafa is not uninformed. I know these things, because I have interacted with both Dave and Mustafa here over the past few months. In fact, none of your four accusations in that sentence are justified.
 
And you say: degenerates like Dave and Mustafa, who... alternate between scorning, scoffing, lying, and out right tyranny.
 
Scorning. You are a lightweight intellectual,Dave, and a moral midget.
 
Scoffing. (to Mustafa) Slaves often go ahead and enslave others. They’ve never learned to think for themselves.
 
Lying: let me respond to your furious diatribe which was a masterpiece of libel and false innuendo. There is no evidence at all to suggest that Dave was furious when he wrote this piece. And if you knew it was a masterpiece, you should have praised it as such!
 
I haven't managed to catch you out on Tyranny yet, but if you carry on going in the same direction, I will eventually.
 
BTW: Can you recommend a book length biography of Button Gwinnett?
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 7:25pm
TexasLynn, well said and thank you.  I’m admittedly abrasive.  It’s deliberate and on purpose.  But, I’m only abrasive to dangerous ideas.
 
Your reasonable examination was thorough.   
 
Jeannie, 
It always happens, I dunno why. 
He did interfere with my free speech rights.
 
Thank you.  Started a news site, Messanonews.com.  I’m preparing to run for school board.  
 
 
 
 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 7:26pm
And thank you for being a patriot, TexasLynn.  My approach is only due to the totalitarian nature of the left.
 
Give me liberty, or give me death.
Jeff Michka Added Jun 6, 2018 - 7:34pm
Where are you running for school board, I'd like to help your opponent by providing information to them that would rule you out of a school board position, like your view about how Muslims want to murder everyone, a charge you've made over time.  Help me out here, Ryan, so I won't have to waste time running you down.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 7:35pm
That's your subjective opinion, Neil.
 
The sentences you deem me to be scorning and scoffing are objectively true.  Not to you, but to those who are informed on history and virtue, they are.  This is why objective truth is so important, because if you don't have it, you can be manipulated to believe just about anything. 
 
"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God".
 
As for Button, he's one of the 204 Founders, I haven't read a biography of.
 
But what five biographies of the Founders have you read?  I'm guessing you haven't, and if you have, you certainly didn't retain much. 
Neil Lock Added Jun 6, 2018 - 7:43pm
Lynn: I'm maybe usurping Dave's role here, but you've made two really good comments on this thread. Thank you.
 
I often find myself pretty much half way between you and Opher. You're Christian, he's atheist, I'm agnostic. You're on the right, he's on the left, I'm against all politics (the "centrists" are the worst of all). My way of thinking is that all three of us should be able to live our own lives, without any of us trying to tell the others what to do. Beyond, of course, a basic minimum standard of behaviour which is "human".
 
But if you want to judge Ryan Messano, I'd suggest you look first at the way he puts his arguments. Then you may be better equipped to evaluate their substance, and how far he is your friend.
 
Oh and yes, I've had a run-in with Mr. Michka. In that case, I determined that it was another commenter, Mr. Nagarajan, that had provoked him. My impression is that Mr. Michka actually does have some good things to say, but sometimes lets himself get out of hand. Personally, I'm willing to tolerate him. You might not; that's your decision. And on this thread, it's Dave's decision.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 7:50pm
Neil, you don't like me, because I expose the truth about you.
 
Reading  your remarks it's clear you have the moral compass of a prostitute.
 
Get your personal life in order before you get involved with politics.  You are a lecher.  That is very clear from your approval of Michka, only fellow lechers would approve of that degenerates antics. 
 
Yup, you hate the truth.  Have a pretty clear allergy to it.  But that's not my fault.  That's your fault. 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 7:51pm
No one who is virtuous and wise disagrees with me at all.  Only the corrupt and uninformed have hysterical conniptions when I speak.  Good!!  That's what the truth has always done!
Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 6, 2018 - 8:01pm
Neil,
re:"But if you want to judge Ryan Messano, I'd suggest you look first at the way he puts his arguments."
 
Is this
"Reading  your remarks it's clear you have the moral compass of a prostitute.
 
Get your personal life in order before you get involved with politics.  You are a lecher.  That is very clear from your approval of Michka, only fellow lechers would approve of that degenerates antics. 
 
Yup, you hate the truth.  Have a pretty clear allergy to it.  But that's not my fault.  That's your fault. "
 
what you call "an argument?"
 
Mustafa
 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 8:06pm
5 biographies, Mustafa.  We used to have dunce caps for people like you.  Public humiliation was necessary to get you straight.  Many on here are unused to discipline at all.  So they get violently hysterical when they are strongly rebuked.
 
Sad!
 
Humility comes before honor
Correction is the way of life.
Open rebuke is better than secret love.
 
Many crave hearing nice kind things, and get violently outraged when they are rebuked for their own good.  90% on here have never used the word rebuke or seen it used in their life either. So we  have a major disconnect. 
Jeff Michka Added Jun 6, 2018 - 8:36pm
Hey, folks..ol dogma 'r us, Ryan has claimed he's running for a school board position.  An opponent my find clever ways to use Ryan's dogma, insults and sttements handy.  Ryan needs a warning label tatoo'd on his forehead.  The school district needs to know about his political and religious extremism and how thart might affect children that aren't "good white Xtains".  he's a legal liability for the school district, if Messanic Messano gt any real power, you can count on him abusing it, and would eventually wind up involved in a lawsuit.   Just his last comment is enough to rule him out...
Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 6, 2018 - 8:40pm
Ryan,
 
re;" So they get violently hysterical when they are strongly rebuked."
 
IMO, it appears to you that are hysterical.
 
Look at your language; the anger and abuse that you spit.
 
re:"90% on here have never used the word rebuke or seen it used in their life either."
where do you come up with this? 
 
re;"Many crave hearing nice kind things, and get violently outraged when they are rebuked for their own good."
 
Do you see me as outraged?
So, you are doing this "for my own good?"
 
Mustafa
Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 6, 2018 - 8:45pm
 Jeff, you mean a warning label  like this?
 
Mustafa
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 8:55pm
5 biographies, Mustafa. 
 
I wonder when you’ll realize your opinion is only as valuable as the effort you put into informing it?
 
If you are like Jeff, that might not take place until Kingdom come.
 
 
Pardero Added Jun 6, 2018 - 9:01pm
Mustafa Kemal,
I think that he is trolling you, Dave, Neil, Jeff, James, Kurt, Flying Junior, Bill, opher, and so many more. 
He may very well have a sense of humor to go along with that fire and brimstone, and may be smirking this very minute.
He seems to be ignoring me, for the moment, much as Rusty Smith does.
 
I don't belief that his arguments are designed to withstand scrutiny, but to annoy. He may believe that he is separating the wheat from the chaff. 
 
I am still upset that he is a comment deleter, and went so far as to hurl vile insults at you and many of our friends, but I intend to steer clear of him, unless he wants to discuss something in a reasonable manner.
 
Dave did invite rebuttal with this article, and TexasLynn doesn't believe Ryan is too far out of line.
 
Just a suggestion from Ryan Messano's own playbook, delete his comments where he hurls insults, let those remain that are reasonably civil, even if critical. Dave's call in this case.
Just a suggestion.
I am off to a Colorado oilfield!
Jeff Michka Added Jun 6, 2018 - 9:05pm
The only ideologue as bad as Ryan is "TraitorLynn".  Ol TraitorLynn wants to be lauded as this big time patriotism, yet has openly advocated breaking up the union.  He is, of course, very angry with me for pointing this out to WBers.  He's just a traitor, and won't admit it.  He must be in heaven now Messano is back and constantly attacking me.  Lynn, like most WB rightists want things both ways:  they can say and spout contradictory nonsense, but get real angry at someone pointing it out,  and that makes them trolls.  I don't "like" people like either TraitorLynn or Ryan, any more than one would presume they "like" me, but then I DON'T LIVE FOR THEIR APPROVAL.  Hey, Lynn you are a treason spouting scumbag, and at least Ryan hasn't promoted treason while playing "patriot" as you have, so go figure, eh?
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 9:16pm
Pardero, I am plenty reasonable, and have a sense of humor.  Trolling is a subjective term, not objective in the least.  People call those trolls who disagree with them.  I wasn't deliberately ignoring you.  Just had to pick who to respond to.
My arguments are historically true, and they will be true thousands of years from now, just as they were thousands of years ago. 
 
Yes, I delete comments from those who are profane, willfully obstinate in refusing to acquire necessary basic knowledge, and those who lie.  Feel free to delete any of my comments that contain profanity, that are blatant lies, or that demonstrate a lack of basic historical comprehension.  The last two can be subjectively misconstrued, and I'm pretty sure if left up to the precious judgement skills of some on here, would result in all my comments being deleted. 
 
 
Pardero Added Jun 6, 2018 - 9:18pm
Jeff Michka,
That is uncalled for. TexasLynn had good reasoning, and his aim is to protect the Constitution and our way of life. It is not treasonous to defend the Constitution from those who would disassemble it because of extreme polarization and different priorities. Better that we divide into managable autonomous regions, than for this Republic to fail entirely. 3/4 of us are in territory that wasn't in the US when it was written. The Constitution isn't about territory.
I gotta go to work.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 6, 2018 - 9:21pm
Yes, TexasLynn was no doubt 100% correct, I agree with Pardero.  His reasoning is sound,and his historical analysis astute.
 
My friends are those who love the truth, wisdom, and virtue, and by that measure, though I've never spoken to him, TexasLynn is a good friend.
Jeff Michka Added Jun 6, 2018 - 9:37pm
Yeah, Mustafa, that would be a good warning label for Messano.  LOL  Good 'in!  I'd think about taking a long shower and getting scrubbed clean, if I were you, Ryan declared you a friend.  Of course, Ryan is big on blatant hypocrisy, just like you.
Jeff Michka Added Jun 6, 2018 - 9:46pm
Hey Pard, hope no tie down straps break or get loose on you.  No, actually it was called for.  Wanting to break up the union is treason.  Do you remember that good old confederacy?  They were traitors, and to try and heal the country, Lincoln let 'em off easy.  Now, you claim to be a big patriot, so tell me, why is TRAITORLynn the big patriot who advocates treason, but can't seem to make up which country he's loyal to"  "The United State of White People"or United States of America, you know, the Union.  And his confusion makes him a hypocrite, and that's ok with you?  fine, but seems it might be hard as a truck driver to sit in the cab, as a hardened piece of sugar candy, wrapped in cellophane,, with a stck shoved up your backside.  You know...a sucker. 
Jeff Michka Added Jun 6, 2018 - 9:49pm
AND  I meant Traitorlynn Mustafa re: blatant hypocrite, not you. 
 
Stone-Eater Added Jun 6, 2018 - 11:03pm
Do you guys actually realize that all Messie wants is publicity at any cost ? Like you're a bad singer with a bad song but know how to video and have a good agent ? You need attention ! And Ryan can do it quite well no matter which garbage he tries to get across LOL
Dave Volek Added Jun 6, 2018 - 11:51pm
Jeff
I often do not agree with TexasLynn, but he lays out a good argument for his positions. Nothing wrong with that. We can all learn something from that approach. 
 
Stone
RM has made it to my "do not read" list. It is now an elite group of 2 WB contributers--and there is one more on probation. 
 
Autumn probably doesn't want to introduce any new software at this point, but it would be interesting if each contributor could toggle some switch "do not read" from certain WB contributors. 
 
 
TexasLynn Added Jun 6, 2018 - 11:57pm
Pardero >> That is uncalled for. TexasLynn had good reasoning, and his aim is to protect the Constitution and our way of life.
 
Thank you for the defense Pardero (and Dave).  As I stated in another post; those who are the problem, who are the disease that infects (and is slowly killing) this great nation will never get it.  Jeff Mitchka is such a parasite.
 
"Now, I'm coming to gobble you up with poor formatting, faulty logic, vulgar name calling, and personal attacks." said the Michka... He then threw some poo at the poor Billy Goat Gruff to really make his point. -- excerpt from A Writer Beat Fairy Tale
 
The best response to a Mitchka comment is to just scrape it off the bottom of your shoe and move on.  The smell will subside soon enough.  Case in point; ignore him.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 7, 2018 - 12:00am
Dave
 
You're right. But Ryan has such a provocative way so it's hard to resist a comment LOL
Stone-Eater Added Jun 7, 2018 - 12:03am
Tex
 
Jeff is sarcastic to cynical. That's ok. I also agree on most of your stuff but....you see some are allergic to expressions like "our great nation". The Germans and French have used that too in the past.....;)
Stone-Eater Added Jun 7, 2018 - 12:09am
BTW
 
I think that people like Ryan are much more dangerous because they don't use insults but try to convince using arguments in a more or less polite manner. If these arguments are valuable or not is another question.
 
Whether I say "fuck you" or I say "would you please delocate" it makes a difference ;)
Ryan Messano Added Jun 7, 2018 - 12:21am
Dave:
 
“Harsh and direct disagreement places thought under pressure. That’s its point. Pressure can be intellectually productive: being forced to look closely at arguments against a beloved position helps those who hold it to burnish and buttress it as often as it moves them to abandon it. But pressure also causes pain and fear; and when those under pressure find these things difficult to bear, they’ll sometimes use any means possible to make the pressure and the pain go away. They feel unsafe, threatened, put upon, and so they react by deploying the soft violence of the law or the harder violence of the aggressive and speech-denying protest. Both moves are common enough in our élite universities now, as is their support by the powers that be. Tolerance for intellectual pain is less than it was. So is tolerance for argument.” Paul J. Griffiths
Ryan Messano Added Jun 7, 2018 - 12:27am
Stone, if one learned nothing else from Trumps election, it’s that telling the truth can have massive attention.  I don’t do it deliberately, but the truth is not dull and boring.  Trump tells the truth profanely at times, and launches personal attacks on appearance.  I do neither, but am hated even more.
Bill H. Added Jun 7, 2018 - 12:51am
Certainly an amazing statement, since Trump's LPD (Lies Per Day) average has just recently risen to about 6.5 per day from his since taking office average of 3.2.
And yes, I don't believe we have ever had a present that hasn't lied in office, other than maybe "Honest Abe Lincoln", but Trump is at the point of where if he ever told the truth, one would simply assume his is lying again.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 7, 2018 - 1:12am
Fake news, Bill. 
 
You cant name seven conservative news websites you’ve read for two months of your entire life, yet you are totally snowed.  
 
Like the liberal news you pay attention to, you are full of lies.  
Michael B. Added Jun 7, 2018 - 1:38am
Funny, it seems that a lot of the old characters are coming home to roost! Who's next, Marylin French? I hope she suffered a heart attack from excessive angry and mad double-ended DICK-RIP: Dildo-Induced-Cunt-Knocking-Resulting-In-Paralysis. Anyway, Dave V., despite my earlier rants against Canadians, I've always thought of you as an intelligent and reasonable dude; Mr. Stephen Hunter single-handedly rehabilitated you fucking Canadians to me, lol. Him, Bill Kamps, and John Minehan are the (male) voices of sanity and reason on WB as far as I'm concerned, although many others on opposing sides, like Bill H. and Texas Lynn, aren't too far behind them. Sorry if I failed to mention others.
 
I welcome Ryan's return to WB in a fucked-up way, because I enjoy his thoroughness, lol. He also has the courage of his convictions, and one has to admit that some people, regardless of what they are standing up for, are often convicted for their courage. We are polar opposites when it comes to religion and many other things, but I agree with him on many others; people are seemingly getting dumber and more corrupted at an exponential rate, which is something that seems to be undisputed here.
 
Michael B. Added Jun 7, 2018 - 2:45am
BTW, I almost forgot to mention Leroy as a voice of sanity, reason, experience, and humor! Sorry about that Leroy! You are the coolest among the cool, and a man among men!
Ryan Messano Added Jun 7, 2018 - 2:52am
Thank you, Michael, I appreciate that.  What a character merrily lying Fraud was.  She left the day after Trump was elected, and hasn’t been seen since.  Probably still playing with her play doh with a therapy dog around for comfort.  I’m sure Hillary losing was earth shattering for poor Marylin.  She dearly idolized her.
 
The only real differences I have with you are language choice, and crudeness, but other than that, we agree on quite a bit.  
 
Texas Lynn is a new favorite of mine, and Leroy is Old Reliable.  Always the voice of sanity.  
Mark Hunter Added Jun 7, 2018 - 3:58am
Regardless of my opinions one way or another, I can't help thinking the subversives camp is where all the fun people will be.
Leroy Added Jun 7, 2018 - 7:44am
"Regardless of my opinions one way or another, I can't help thinking the subversives camp is where all the fun people will be."
 
"I'd rather laugh with they sinners than cry with the saints."--Billy Joel
Stone-Eater Added Jun 7, 2018 - 7:55am
Ryan
 
Fair enough, even though there couldn't be two people more opposite than me and you I guess. Maybe the only way we could find something we agree on would be on international subjects where NO religion plays into it. But I guess that's difficult.
George N Romey Added Jun 7, 2018 - 8:23am
Trump is a buffoon but he’s great for other politicians and the press because they need not concern themselves with real issues and problems. They can just blather on about Trump. Ryan is lost like so many like him.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jun 7, 2018 - 8:40am
Ah, I’ve missed WB.  So much fun....
 
Dave I disagree with a couple of things.  
 
One, while your assessment of the founding fathers is essentially correct, I look at them as a product of their times. They were children of the Enlightenment so they took those ideas and tried to build a country.  Yes, they were flawed men but they were attempting something radically new, not seen in over 2,000 years.  They built a fledgling democracy with flaws that slowly corrected over the next 240 years.
 
Is it perfect?  Hell, no.  But nothing built by man is.  I admit I fear for this country more now than I ever did with Donald the Thud as president.  He pried open doors with his itty bitty hands better left sealed.  Hopefully we will get through this OK and we will learn a lesson.  It isn’t just us, Europe is swinging more to the right and that scares me.
 
Second, the Constitution is built with mechanisms that allow it to change with the times.  This country amended it several times to adjust to internal changes.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jun 7, 2018 - 8:40am
Just to reiterate, I am a liberal.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 7, 2018 - 8:50am
George, it was your hedonistic generation that blew it for America.  
 
You and your generation blew your youth on drugs and sex, and are now spiritual skeletons.  You aren’t wise and you are unhappy.  So you point fingers.  It’s very sad a man can be your age, and still be so foolish as to not recognize Trump, warts and all, is a million times better than any Democrat.  
 
While I somewhat agree with  Jeffrey, he doesn’t understand, as the vast majority of liberals don’t, that liberty depends on virtue. Also like most liberals, he doesn’t understand how his personal corruption perverts his vision.   
Stone-Eater Added Jun 7, 2018 - 9:17am
Jeffrey
 
People in the US have NO democracy. The electoral system doesn't allow it. Why don't people understand that ? The US is a republic. There is federalism, ok. But a real democracy means that people decide about everything and elect anybody DIRECTLY. Why do you think we have no president ? Because we thought it's no good to give ONE single person too much power.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 7, 2018 - 9:20am
BTW: The Bavarians and Austrians are eager to copy our system, and believe it or not, even in Cameroon they would favor it. Because it comes closest to the will of the people. For sure it's not perfect and the economy will always look that they get most of the cake, but it's better than what most countries have today.
TexasLynn Added Jun 7, 2018 - 9:36am
JK >> Yes, they were flawed men but they were attempting something radically new, not seen in over 2,000 years.
 
I think you are I are mostly in agreement JK.  As I stated in another post (on Hamilton) recently.  There are those who take our founding fathers and throw them in the muck in the gutter; then there are those like me to place them on a pedestal.  The truth is somewhere in between.
 
JK >> Just to reiterate, I am a liberal.
 
It is so refreshing to hear you say that.  There are so many liberals on WB who get their panties in a wad over such descriptive adjectives/nouns.
 
Just to reiterate, I am a conservative. :)
 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  
SE >> People in the US have NO democracy. The electoral system doesn't allow it. Why don't people understand that ? The US is a republic.
 
A "republic" is a representative democracy; a type of democracy much more able to protect the rights of the minority.  No... we don't have a pure democratic system as you describe.  Thank God.
 
Do say the U.S. is not democratic is splitting hairs.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 7, 2018 - 10:07am
Do say the U.S. is not democratic is splitting hairs.
 
Not really. Read your own constitution. You're a republic. Same as France for example. A country where a prez has so much power can not be a democracy. 
 
....and I don't split hair. I don't have many left but I guess you as a woman have more experience on such stuff LOL
Stone-Eater Added Jun 7, 2018 - 10:13am
BTW:
 
First: A god has nothing to do with it ;-). Second: Why do you reject a direct democracy ? Because you're not interested in what happens and is decided in your country and one day say HUH ? 
 
I mean you can elect representatives. They can tell you whatever bullshit to get elected and then change their direction according to the pay they get from whatever economic circles.
 
That ok ? I guess not. You can't even de-elect them during their term. "We the People" in the US probably had good intentions, but due to your system it leads to nowhere.
Even A Broken Clock Added Jun 7, 2018 - 10:21am
I wonder if we the users of Writerbeat can request that there be added a thumbs-down button as well as a like button. It may be the only way to show certain zealots that their opinions are not wanted nor are they popular. But given the recent lack of stability of the database, we should probably just accept the fouling of the nest that is occurring.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 7, 2018 - 10:41am
Because whether something is right or not is determined on its popularity, said no wise man in history.  Any other astute observations, EABC? 
Stone-Eater Added Jun 7, 2018 - 10:51am
EABC
 
We gotta live with it, eh, Ryboy ?
TexasLynn Added Jun 7, 2018 - 10:57am
SE >> Not really. Read your own constitution. You're a republic.
 
Yes!  As stated, a republic is a type of democracy!
 
SE >> Same as France for example.
 
Ohhhh... Now that was uncalled for. :)
 
SE >> A country where a prez has so much power can not be a democracy.
 
That depends on the definition of "so much".  I can see your point concerning the electoral college (though I don't agree with it).  But still, we are not so far gone (yet) as to not be a republic (as a form of democracy).  There are still the legislative and judicial branches to check and balance.
 
Are we in dire straits, yes... but to quote Monty Python... "We're not dead yet".
 
Just ask Obama and Trump if they're happy with how much and how easy it was to get what they wanted done.
 
SE >> ....and I don't split hair. I don't have many left but I guess you as a woman have more experience on such stuff LOL
 
A young, petite, black woman. :P  As such, you old white guys need to be showing me a lot more respect and concession.
 
SE >> Why do you reject a direct democracy ? Because you're not interested in what happens and is decided in your country and one day say HUH ?
 
Because I highly value and believe it imperative to protect the rights (especially the unalienable ones) of the minority.  A direct democracy is a threat to that.  I republic, much less so.
 
Direct democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
 
SE >> I mean you can elect representatives. They can tell you whatever bullshit to get elected and then change their direction according to the pay they get from whatever economic circles.
 
And if I don't realize that and remove them; whose fault is that?  I didn't say the republic system was perfect, just better.  It does require a degree of paying attention this nation has lost.  That doesn't mean I'm ready to ditch the republic; just reform it back to what it should be.
 
SE >> That ok ? I guess not. You can't even de-elect them during their term. "We the People" in the US probably had good intentions, but due to your system it leads to nowhere.
 
Agreed!  Our little republic is the worst of all possible systems... except for all the rest. :)
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jun 7, 2018 - 11:01am
@Ryan Messano:
”While I somewhat agree with  Jeffrey,”
 
Thanks.  I am very smart mutha chucka.
 
“he doesn’t understand, as the vast majority of liberals don’t, that liberty depends on virtue.”
 
Whose virtue are we talking about?
 
“Also like most liberals, he doesn’t understand how his personal corruption perverts his vision.”
 
LOL
Yes, personal corruption.  I haven’t smoked pot in almost twenty years, I haven’t had a drink in almost a year and haven’t drank to excess in about fifteen years.  I’m practically a vegetarian and I’ve lost 40 pounds in less than a year through diet and exercise.
 
I’m personally against abortion though I am pro-choice.  I am for the legalization of marijuana but not for hard drugs.  I am happily married, I don’t cheat and I have two boys I dote on.
 
Do I sound corrupt to you?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jun 7, 2018 - 11:04am
Ryan Messano, you are the type of “conservative” I loathe.  Your holier-than-thou attitude, your lofty misguided belief you have the right to judge others makes me want to vomit.
 
Make my day, put me on your “list.”
Stone-Eater Added Jun 7, 2018 - 11:05am
Jeffrey
 
LOL :-) You didn't mention "god" or said that you would like to burn homos at stake. You should have. Otherwise Ryboy doesn't accept you.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 7, 2018 - 11:08am
BTW Jeffrey
 
I guess we have similar points of view on what you just said.
Dave Volek Added Jun 7, 2018 - 11:39am
Jeffrey Kelly
 
I appreciate your comments to this thread. While I have been somewhat harsh on the American constitution for a long time, I do recognize that it was a product of its times and it did vault humanity into a higher level of social organization (unless one was black, aboriginal, or a loyalist). The principles of the constitution eventually found their way into many other democracies even though the exact structures of the American government were not replicated.
 
The problem lies with treating this document as the highest possible form of social organization humanity can ever attain. The myth behind the constitution, which includes casting these men as saints only concerned for the people they governed, perpetuates the psyche that it is pointless to consider alternatives.
 
The founding fathers had a great disdain for political parties. Yet they could not find the words to prevent their formation in this new country. This then puts the ardent supporters of the constitution into a paradox. If the founding father could not see the need or inevitability of the political parties, then the founding fathers were lacking in foresight--and that lack of foresight may have affected other parts of the constitution as well, And let's add the racist, misogynist and elitist tendencies, which indeed were a product of their times. In other words, the founding fathers erred on the political party, they were not the totally enlightened social engineers as the myth portrays.
 
One the other hand, if the founding fathers were indeed correct on the political party--and it is an impediment to better governance, founding fathers did not have the ability to set up the constitution to prevent the creation of the parties.   Again, we see that the founding fathers were not far from fully enlightened as saints or philosophers.
 
No matter how one looks at the formation of the political party in early American governance, it casts doubt on the mythological stature of the American constitution.
 
If America cannot move past its myth, it is doomed to crumble with an 18th century document to guide it in the 21st century. It's time for a new process to write a new constitution. And hopefully, the concept of the political party will be cast in the dustbins of history.
 
 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 7, 2018 - 12:58pm
Shut up, Dave, you sanctimonious dimwit.
 
You’ve looked at porn and used drugs.  Also you’ve watched hellivision.  That alone makes you inferior to the Founders, you pretentious know nothing.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 7, 2018 - 1:58pm
Ryboy
 
Get back to the closet, buddy. You won't find enough assholes here to follow your intolerant crap and personal insults.
 
Matthew 5:22

Verse Concepts

"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
 
Hm... your book, pal. At least you can light a cigarette there without a lighter :-)
Ryan Messano Added Jun 7, 2018 - 2:40pm
Keep reading, Stone.
 
I just love to have my Christianity judged by people who don’t know or follow the Bible at all.  What a hypocrite you are.  
 
When you read John 7:24, about Eli, and Phinehas, and many other passages, along with Christ in the temple with a bullwhip, you’ll understand the spirit of the law, and not get hung up on the letter.  
 
Open rebuke is better than secret love.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 7, 2018 - 2:42pm
I didn’t call Dave a good for nothing.  I called him a know nothing, which he can remedy with a trip to the local library.  But he, you, ahd a lot of others have a lot of arrogance and hubris and hate to learn anything new, and you’ll stubbornly resist no matter what.
 
So you stay intellectually enslaved, stagnant, static, and stale.
Pardero Added Jun 7, 2018 - 3:07pm
Ryan Messano,
Though Jeffrey Kelly and I  differ, perhaps profoundly, on some issues, I have found him to be an admirable, personable, and likeable man whose opinions and thoughts I value highly. 
 
Please consider why my tent is large enough to hold all of my friends of different, though honorable, outlooks and opinions, but yours is not. All while ostensibly, I have only the values that I was taught as a child, while you have on your whole armour.
 
I have made some dear friends, here, who give me an opportunity to exercise an intellectual part of my mind, that only my friend and co-worker, Nick, 'Wyoming Hunter' on You tube, can compare to.
 
 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jun 7, 2018 - 3:15pm
@TexasLynn:
”Just ask Obama and Trump if they're happy with how much and how easy it was to get what they wanted done.”
 
Absolutely.  
But I prefer this flawed government over far worse alternatives.  I read about those far worse alternatives and what they did.  I find them interesting in an academic sense but I have no desire to do first hand research.
 
I do think a parliamentary style of government is not a bad idea but it has its issues as well.
 
“A young, petite, black woman. :P  As such, you old white guys need to be showing me a lot more respect and concession.”
 
Careful.  Ryan will find you personally corrupt with that statement.
 
Though it is nice to feel pretty sometimes.....
;)
 
“SE >> Why do you reject a direct democracy ? Because you're not interested in what happens and is decided in your country and one day say HUH ?
 
Because I highly value and believe it imperative to protect the rights (especially the unalienable ones) of the minority.  A direct democracy is a threat to that.  I republic, much less so.
 
Direct democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.”
 
Yes.  You end up with a tyranny of the masses.  The founding fathers understood that.
 
Lynn, why are you and I agreeing so much today??????
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jun 7, 2018 - 3:19pm
@Ryan Messano:
”You’ve looked at porn”
 
Well, sometimes you gotta get your freak on.
 
“and used drugs.”
 
Sometimes you need to feed your head.
 
“Also you’ve watched hellivision.”
 
Well, sometimes you need mindless entertainment.  Seriously, really like 24 but I think it’s led to a lot of fledgling conspiracy theories.
 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jun 7, 2018 - 3:24pm
@Pardero:
How are your studies coming along?  Gotten through Rudolf yet?
 
I plan on writing an article on Auschwitz soon.  I have another book coming on it, there is a second forensic study the Poles conducted in the 1940’s that I want to track down.
Pardero Added Jun 7, 2018 - 3:43pm
Jeffrey Kelly,
I have barely browsed through the 2 volumes that I obtained. 
This lifestyle is not conducive to reading or studying. I read more books in a month of Junior High, than I have read in the remainder of my life. 
I have a stack of books that I have begun, that may last me for years, unless I apply and exert myself to reading.
 
My motivation on the subject, may differ somewhat, from many people's, and I am just not driven enough to make it a priority, though I would love to see you put your zeal and talents towards related subjects, even if your fan base dwindled as a result.
TexasLynn Added Jun 7, 2018 - 3:55pm
JK >> But I prefer this flawed government over far worse alternatives...
 
Exactly... Many (even here on WB) are all too willing and eager to say "Yes, this political system resulted in the death of millions... but let's try it again... we'll get it right this time."
 
Holy %$^&!  No!  Let's not do that!  Let's stick with and reform what has worked better than anything else over the last few centuries instead.
 
JK >> I do think a parliamentary style of government is not a bad idea but it has its issues as well.
 
As a nod to our friends and neighbors across the pond.  Absolutely. :)
 
JK >> Careful.  Ryan will find you personally corrupt with that statement.
 
I've seen no indication that Ryan has anything against my kind.
 
I've made it very clear for a long time now that my avatar is not even close to what I look like.  If you guys can't handle a young, petite, (and yes, pretty), conservative black woman of faith... then shame on you and your stereotypes. :)
 
JK >> Though it is nice to feel pretty sometimes.....
 
I'll take your word for it.
;)
 
JK >> Yes.  You end up with a tyranny of the masses.  The founding fathers understood that.
 
They did indeed... and thank God (again)! :)
 
JK >> Lynn, why are you and I agreeing so much today??????
 
%$^&!  It's not my fault... quit making so much sense!  It's not like you! :P
Neil Lock Added Jun 7, 2018 - 4:43pm
Oh wow, is this a fun thread. Well done, Dave.
 
Pardero has done a great job by putting forward to Mustafa a draft list of people on this site who are actually open to civilized discussion, regardless of their own political (or religious) views or those of their interlocutors.
 
But he missed out a few - most notably Stone-Eater and the Broken Clock (both of whom have already come in on this thread). I'd add the two Bills - H and Kamps - and Katharine Otto, Jeffrey Kelly, Jeff Jackson, Riley Brown and Benjamin Goldstein (whoever he is) too. And probably rycK, Dr Rupert Green and the two Hunters.
 
My apologies to anyone I've missed. We might even get TexasLynn to join us, if he's willing to dismount from his high horse!
 
...and let's remember, this is Autumn's site. It's her property, and we shouldn't intentionally deface it. Are you listening, Messiano?
Pardero Added Jun 7, 2018 - 4:58pm
Neil Lock!
I was unclear.
 
My list was those that I perceived had suffered the foulest of recent insults, not a list of the most thoughtful and open-minded, though there would be considerable overlap.
 
You make it sound as though I slighted 3/4 of the great minds and writers.
 
Now that you have been corrected, I salute you for your wit and wisdom, in spite of your libertarian fanaticism, which makes Ron Paul appear as an arch statist. ; )
Neil Lock Added Jun 7, 2018 - 5:03pm
Pardero: I stand corrected, and I have already taken my punishment of 3/4 of a minute without drinking beer.
TexasLynn Added Jun 7, 2018 - 5:20pm
Neil L >> We might even get TexasLynn to join us, if he's willing to dismount from his high horse!
 
Wow!  I didn't quite make the list... but got a (less than) honorable mention/invitation. :)  I was not even aware I was on a high horse; considering myself a great sinner, second only to Paul (the apostle).
 
Before dismounting I'm afraid I would have to know the price of admission.  What does it profit a man... after all...
 
Hey... maybe there's room enough in the tent for me AND my horse? :)
 
Neil L >> My apologies to anyone I've missed.
 
You missed Leroy, Jeanne, and (teeth gritted) Opher. :)  Maybe they were on Pardero's list.
 
But if Leroy's out... I'm out.
 
Neil L >> Are you listening, Messiano?
 
I get (based on my little exposure) how Mr Messiano really pisses some of you guys off; but I can't get past the fact that you hate the guy so much for his "personal attacks" and yet... breath not a word concerning the likes Jeff Mitchka!  It's not logical... it's not consistent.
 
If I'm (begrudgingly) putting up with JM (though I admittedly don't read anything he writes), you guys can't suffer RM?  Trump himself would have gotten a better reception.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jun 7, 2018 - 5:44pm
I mentioned why I don’t like Ryan.  I don’t need anyone to judge me because of my political beliefs.  
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jun 7, 2018 - 5:50pm
@TexasLynn:
”Exactly... Many (even here on WB) are all too willing and eager to say "Yes, this political system resulted in the death of millions... but let's try it again... we'll get it right this time."
 
Yes, no to Communism on the left and National Socialism on the right.
 
Though Stalin and Mao wound up acting more like nationalists than they did dyed in the wool Communists.
 
And here comes our first disagreement of the day.....
:)
 
BTW, I thought you were joking about your avatar.  Because I am a liberal I have no problem with you being a conservative, petite, pretty black woman.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 7, 2018 - 6:04pm
Pardero: Ryan Messano,
Though Jeffrey Kelly and I  differ, perhaps profoundly, on some issues, I have found him to be an admirable, personable, and likeable man whose opinions and thoughts I value highly. 
  
That's nice.  I can like things about a person and still critique.  It's sad many can't be criticized without a compliment.  Low self esteem. 

 Please consider why my tent is large enough to hold all of my friends of different, though honorable, outlooks and opinions, but yours is not. All while ostensibly, I have only the values that I was taught as a child, while you have on your whole armour.

Because your tent has no moral compass.  The way to destruction is broad and wide. 

 
I have made some dear friends, here, who give me an opportunity to exercise an intellectual part of my mind, that only my friend and co-worker, Nick, 'Wyoming Hunter' on You tube, can compare to.

The truth doesn't care about our feelings. 
TexasLynn Added Jun 7, 2018 - 6:33pm
JK >> Though Stalin and Mao wound up acting more like nationalists than they did dyed in the wool Communists.
 
The left bemoans that "real" Communism has never been tried.  But it has.  It's just that "real" Communism contains a fundamental flaw at its core (like a genetic flaw) that always pushes it towards tyranny and totalitarianism.  It's not that it's hasn't really been tried, they just don't like the results and think they could do better.
 
JK >> And here comes our first disagreement of the day.....
 
You got that right... the key word "Socialism" should give you some clue as to where on the political spectrum "National Socialism" belongs.  Socialism and Communism are leftist cousins sharing the same fatal flaw describe above.
 
"Nationalism" and "fascism" are simply vehicles (like modes of transportation) usable by any ideology on the spectrum… in my opinion.
 
JK >> I mentioned why I don’t like Ryan.  I don’t need anyone to judge me because of my political beliefs. 
 
Fair enough.  But aren't we all doing the same thing to one another; though maybe less vocally?
 
According to Michka, I'm a "trator", "treasonist", "confederate rebel", "hypocrite", "rightest", white supremacists... and that's just from one thread.  I've come to the point where being the target of such a dirt-bag is a badge of honor.  It's a good place to be.  I like it. :)
 
JK >> BTW, I thought you were joking about your avatar.
 
I was.  And still am.  And reserve the right to continue.  The young, petite, pretty, black woman has been a running joke on several threads and is now my alter-ego. (Stone remembered and referenced that joke.)  Someone who assumes much of anything based on an avatar is being foolish.
 
For the record... my avatar is me (with less gray in the beard); and I never identify as anything else. :)
 
FYI... I try to always include a ":)" on any comment where I'm being less than completely serious.
Jeff Michka Added Jun 7, 2018 - 8:04pm
TraitorLynn doesn't like being call a traitor "by a dirtbag like me," but you still are a traitor.  When they throw your sorry ass in a truck for a trip into the "night and fog," get Pardero as your legal representative.  You can beg them into believing you're just a poor patriot, mi-stabbed as a traitor.  Maybe they'll let Pardero escape and live.  You are just a hypocrite and traitor, afraid to say, but it was "just one article"  advocating treason, and a link much later in another thread to draw attention to it.  So which are you?  Arch patriot or just another traitor and coward.  Either you believe what you advocate or you don't, calling me a dirtbag or anything else won't change that, coward. 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jun 7, 2018 - 9:35pm
@ TexasLynn
 "JK >> Though Stalin and Mao wound up acting more like nationalists than they did dyed in the wool Communists.
 
The left bemoans that "real" Communism has never been tried.  But it has.  It's just that "real" Communism contains a fundamental flaw at its core (like a genetic flaw) that always pushes it towards tyranny and totalitarianism.  It's not that it's hasn't really been tried, they just don't like the results and think they could do better. "
 
The theory of Communism has never seen a real world application.  Forms of Socialism do exist, including Democratic Socialism.  Pure "Socialism" also doesn't exist, what we see now is hybridized versions, mixtures of private and public.  They work until they don't.  In this they are like capitalist societies.  We see booms and busts.  The U.S. is currently in the middle of a boom, it will go bust.
 
"JK >> And here comes our first disagreement of the day.....
 
You got that right... the key word "Socialism" should give you some clue as to where on the political spectrum "National Socialism" belongs.  Socialism and Communism are leftist cousins sharing the same fatal flaw describe above. "
 
That is overly simplistic.  If  you read Mein Kampf you would know that Hitler defined a good National Socialist as any German.
 
The Nazi Party had no defined economic policy because Hitler thought economics took care of itself.  Capitalism functioned normally in the Third Reich, unless you were a Jew, Communist or Social Democrat, you kept your business and your profits.
 
"Nationalism" and "fascism" are simply vehicles (like modes of transportation) usable by any ideology on the spectrum… in my opinion. "
 
Nationalism yes, Fascism, no.  See my article on it.

 
"JK >> I mentioned why I don’t like Ryan.  I don’t need anyone to judge me because of my political beliefs. 
 
Fair enough.  But aren't we all doing the same thing to one another; though maybe less vocally?"
 
Sure.
 
"According to Michka, I'm a "trator", "treasonist", "confederate rebel", "hypocrite", "rightest", white supremacists... and that's just from one thread.  I've come to the point where being the target of such a dirt-bag is a badge of honor.  It's a good place to be.  I like it. :)"
 
Yes, however, I do not.  There are many different types of conservatives just like there are many types of liberals.  Not everyone who is conservative is any of the above.  The same for liberals, not all of us are psychotic Socialists out to take all of your stuff and redistribute it like crazed Robin Hoods.  I consider myself a rational person with a set of beliefs.  My beliefs are not for everyone......just like yours are not for everyone.
 
"JK >> BTW, I thought you were joking about your avatar.
 
I was.  And still am.  And reserve the right to continue.  The young, petite, pretty, black woman has been a running joke on several threads and is now my alter-ego. (Stone remembered and referenced that joke.)  Someone who assumes much of anything based on an avatar is being foolish.
 
For the record... my avatar is me (with less gray in the beard); and I never identify as anything else. :)"
 
Sometimes I am irony impaired.
:)
 

Bill H. Added Jun 7, 2018 - 10:34pm
 
JK - If Ryan did his research, he would have discovered to his dismay that Jesus used Cannabis, as did most of his buddies back in the day.
Just do a search on words like Kaneh Bosm or Calamus.
It was as popular as frankincense and myrrh back in the day.
TexasLynn Added Jun 7, 2018 - 11:45pm
Bill H >> Jesus used Cannabis, as did most of his buddies back in the day.
 
Care to site book and verse, Bill?  Any historical evidence?  OR Are you just assuming that since it (or something similar) was there... they must have used it.
 
Your assertion is absurd.  Those who do not believe He is who He said He is will always seek to bring Him down to our level.
 
Please... stick to secular arguments.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jun 8, 2018 - 1:13am
I think Ryan needs to loosen up some, some pot would do him good.
 
Selfishly I want to see Jeff Sessions stoned.  Seriously, how funny would that be?  Like a Keebler elf....who would eat all the cookies.
 
Bill H. Added Jun 8, 2018 - 1:23am
 
TL - Do some web research on this. Cannabis was a main ingredient of anointing oils used by just about everyone back in the day. I first read about this way back in the '60s.
I won't refer to any websites, as of course they will be deemed as "Lefty" or "Druggie" sources.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Jun 8, 2018 - 1:31am
@ryan. "Good thing the Founders gave us free speech.
 
That way corrupt and uninformed men like Dave and Mustafa are harmless to enforce their tyranny on others."
 
What is the basis for your conclusion? I have found some illuminating conversations in Mustafa's works.
Flying Junior Added Jun 8, 2018 - 2:18am
Bill,
 
I have to agree with Lynn.  There is no possible factual evidence that Jesus and the bros used cannabis.  I find it difficult to believe at best.  Cannabis is from India and perhaps Arabia.  Granted Lebanon is a Biblical land.  But by the time I was born, hashish was being made in Nepal, Lebanon, India and Hawaii.  May the Goddess bless the old smuggling routes between the ME and Europe. 
 
There is no historical record of cannabis use by the Jewish people.  They really kept an astounding amount of records.  Most of the histories were scripture.  Learn about the Scriptorium of the Essenes which was discovered in the mountainous regions of the desert.  Scrolls of the Book of Isaiah and other Jewish scriptures were preserved in clay jars.  Long tables where the transcribers painstakingly copied the ancient records were found complete with inkwells.  There were also sleeping quarters, galleys and a system for collecting scarce rainwater.  All two or three centuries before Christ.
 
The history of the Jewish people is a thing of great beauty.
Neil Lock Added Jun 8, 2018 - 2:57am
TexasLynn: You're right, I did miss out Leroy and Jeanne from my list. Apologies to you and to both of them.
Flying Junior Added Jun 8, 2018 - 3:33am
We are all very probably on some list of subversives.
 
Once when my laptop was loading particularly slowly, I clicked on the Writer Beat.
 
I'm not sure if I could duplicate exactly what happenned.  Maybe the site was down.  Maybe it was my network connection.  But the process was like treacle in January.  For the first time I noticed that my little computer was waiting for some ping from FaceBook.
 
FaceBook!!!
 
Any connection to FaceBook sells every iota of information to the highest bidder.  Sells out your friends, email, every word of every text.  Your phone.  Who am I kidding?  Googol/Android is by far the worst and the most all-encompassing.
 
For all we know, that dickwad, Steve Bannon, is collecting every comment and post to be microanalyzed for evidence of subversion by the powerful AI superbots of Cambridge Analytica.
 
Anal indeed.
 
Don't worry.  You RW crazies.  You guys are going to be just fine.  Just keep on loving Trump and hating Obama.  You have nothing to hide!
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 8:45am
Big time, big time fake news Bill.  Jesus wasn’t using pot. Lol.  Google is suckering you.  They sucker a lot of people though.  I never use Google because they at once spy on people and brainwash them.  
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 8:47am
You’re right, Jeffrey, pot loosens up the intellect.  Makes folks considerably easier to control and manipulate.  Not for me.  
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 8:49am
Bill, ironically, your theories are refuted by websites on the right.  Since the right understands histury ahd context, and the left doesn’t, that’s where you should look.
 
90% of those who oppose what I say are either on psychotropic drugs, or are having some form of sex outside of marriage.  Those who will not rule themselves with virtue, react violently when virtuous rules are propagated.
 
 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 8:53am
@Dr. Green, Mustafa clearly hasn’t read five biographies of Americas Founders, yet is of the opinion that Americas roots are corrupt.  I’d buy that if he was informed, but I certainly don’t when he hasn’t read just five biographies of the 204 Founders.  Same goes for Dave.  He evil surmises, is very unfamiliar with the Founders, and understands little of the Greek and Roman societies theFounders patterned America off of.  They both are very unfamiliar with the document the Founders quoted the most, and they knew a lot more documents than we do.  The Bible.  Both do not live by it either. 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 8:54am
Pigs must be flying this morning, because I agree, with Flying J.
TexasLynn Added Jun 8, 2018 - 10:50am
Bill H >> Do some web research on this.
 
As others have pointed out... your argument is... "I read it on the internet".
 
I appreciate FJ doing a little objective research and analysis on a subject I have zero exposure to.  Tobacco and drugs are two vices I've never indulged in... though I've more than made up for that in others.
 
People decide Jesus was a drug user because they want him to be... because THAT fact would take down those they hate a notch or two; thus, it has to be true, they believe it beyond all doubt.
 
When this is the motivation for your truth... how can you have an honest debate about anything?
 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 
Neil L >> You're right, I did miss out Leroy and Jeanne from my list. Apologies to you and to both of them.
 
Leroy and Jeanne and ... ? :)
 
Ryan!  And, look at me stirring that pot.  You, sir, seem to be a bad influence on me. :)
 
Neil, no apologies necessary for my part; I'm still looking for that pony (I mean high horse) you said I have. :)
 
From, up here... I'm just enjoying the show of the lefties running around in a tizzy because a fox has returned.  I can only imagine the history that invokes such a reaction. :)  Is it wrong to get a chuckle out of that?
Jeff Jackson Added Jun 8, 2018 - 11:11am
I missed getting an "A" in Clinical Psychology by only 10 points. Ryan has "issues." The speech was poorly reasoned, unpersuasive, and sloppily delivered. As a Communication major, it was a C- at best.
Bill H. Added Jun 8, 2018 - 11:25am
Mess-
I never use Google, and wrote an article out here some years back about why. DuckDuckGo and Startpage are my tools of choice.
It must be hell to live in a world that is only defined to you as "Left" or Right" (or anyone for that matter). I have several friends who are shackled by their political confines that I hang with during various fishing expeditions, and find them to be constantly angry, negative, defensive, and lacking quite a bit of humor. Seems the only time they loosen up is after a few brewskies.
Certainly not an existence I would even consider.
 
Here's an interesting read on ancient anointing oil.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 8, 2018 - 6:01pm
Yawn. Since Messias is here again I start to get to fed up with that bullshit.
James Travil Added Jun 8, 2018 - 7:25pm
I agree with Bill, then again I see any form of extremism, left or right, as a type of sickness. And lying Ryan certainly is sick in the heart and head. 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 7:32pm
God bless Michael Savage, the seven liberal men on here are all mentally ill.
 
They are violently allergic to the truth that will heal them. 
James Travil Added Jun 8, 2018 - 10:53pm
I'm still not liberal if you are referring to me lying Ryan MassAnal. 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 8, 2018 - 11:53pm
I detest you profane, lecherous fake conservatives worse than the liberals, James.  You pollute conservatism.  At least the liberals represent themselves as evil, you are a fraud.  Don’t call yourself a conservative with a filthy mouth like yours, you charlatan.
James Travil Added Jun 9, 2018 - 1:05am
MassAnal the moron, the world is not binary, there are more than conservatives and liberals, there are us moderate/centrists as well, and I can assure you that we detest extremists like you more than you detest liberals. 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 9, 2018 - 2:00am
You are no moderate.  
 
With a vile mouth like yours, you are a national stumbling block.  
 
You can do no good with a mind that produces such garbage from your mouth.
 
What disgusting, repellent, appallingly outrageous language you use.  
 
You ought to have your mouth mouth washed out with soap and it’s a shame your parents didn’t do their job.
Flying Junior Added Jun 9, 2018 - 2:50am
Bill,
 
No wonder the 23rd Psalm says, "Thou anointest my head with oil."
James Travil Added Jun 9, 2018 - 3:58am
Lying Ryan, can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. A weak ass sniveling punk like you wouldn't have lasted five minutes in the service. You are a disgrace to the human species. 
James Travil Added Jun 9, 2018 - 4:58am
And another thing lying Ryan, you are no conservative, you are a filthy fascist alt right thug. A compatriot of Adolf Hitler and an enemy of the founding fathers. If a hell exists you will be welcomed into it. 
John Minehan Added Jun 9, 2018 - 7:54am
Don't worry too much, you don't live in the same country.  At worst, you might have your foreign travel options narrowed.
 
Realistically, I doubt if even that is a choate threat in the near future.
Jeff Michka Added Jun 9, 2018 - 4:49pm
Neil, Traitor Lynn will never get down from his high horse.  TriatorLynn won't even discuss the treason he espouses, since it would make his $3 bill patriotism worth even less and confirm him as the hypocrite he strives to be.  Either you're a patriot or a traitor, and ol TraitorLynn wants to be both.  TraitorLynn has no standing discussing BLM issues and defining what "good protests" are.  However it's a good platform taken if he keeps up denying he wants a United State of White People, he just wants to complain people are noticing his duplicity.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jun 9, 2018 - 7:39pm
@Ryan Messano:
”Bill, ironically, your theories are refuted by websites on the right.  Since the right understands histury ahd context, and the left doesn’t, that’s where you should look.”
 
I’m on the left, Ryan.  Do you think I don’t understand history?

 
“90% of those who oppose what I say are either on psychotropic drugs, or are having some form of sex outside of marriage.”
 
No, they just have brains.
 
“Those who will not rule themselves with virtue, react violently when virtuous rules are propagated.”
 
Dull.  Rhetoric.
 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 9, 2018 - 10:06pm
Frankly, Jeffrey, I don’t, but it’s nothing that can’t be remedied by three months of messanonews.com.  
 
Their brains are scrambled, I’m sorry to say.
 
Wisdom appears as folly to the scoffer.  I notice it’s only the leftists that say they are bored on here.  Only boring minds are bored.  
 
 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jun 10, 2018 - 2:15am
Ryan, if I want to see right-wing propaganda I'll watch Fox News.  It has better production values than your little website.
James Travil Added Jun 10, 2018 - 2:18am
Don't waste your time with MassAnal Jeffrey. He is an ignorant depraved fascist historical revisionist liar, a pathetic worm of no more importance than the bugs we crush under our feet. 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 10, 2018 - 10:22am
Readers are leaders and leaders are readers, Jeffrey.
 
Fox News is the best on hellivision, but the hellivision is one of the worst communication devices in human history. Read “The plug in drug”.  No wise person has a television.  I never have.  And no, it’s not like the internet. Here we are having a conversation and an exchange of ideas.  There are no conversations with hellivision.  It encourages one to become an unthinking, uncritical mindless drone. Tens of millions of Americans are just that.
 
Travil, travail and travel elsewhere with your delusions and lies.
 
Ryan Messano Added Jun 10, 2018 - 10:42am
Travil is a full blown satanist. Godless secular humanism just killed 100 million people in the past century and the evil Travil is at it again.  
 
Having read your article, you are one of the most wicked people on here, Travil.  No wonder your language is despicable and vile, you are an evil creature.
 
Begone, Satan!  May the Lord rebuke you!
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jun 10, 2018 - 3:00pm
That’s not going to work on James, Ryan.  He doesn’t care.
 
 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jun 10, 2018 - 3:01pm
@James Travil:
Well, I’m getting ready to publish an article.  It helps my comment count so Autumn won’t be upset with me.
 
;)
 
 
Jeff Michka Added Jun 10, 2018 - 6:12pm
Here we go, evry news outlet that isn't a "website on the right" always lie, but sites like Ryan's are the fonts of truth, at least according to them.  Ryan needs people reading his screeds, so he came here to siphon people away, he has no desire for "truth" just "stats."
Flying Junior Added Jun 11, 2018 - 4:41am
Ryan,
 
You really are a rotten poster child for Christianity.  I'd pick James over you for knowledge of matters spiritual.  Break it down.  What do you truly understand about good versus evil?  Maybe you should be more subtle in your attempts to evangelize us heathen.
 
A Billy Graham you are not.  I'm thinking that as overtly political as they were, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson were not nearly as offensive as you have proven to be in a short space of time.  You're like a Jim Bakker or a Jimmy Swaggart.  But your crimes are not theft or sexual depravity.
 
You're just a pompous twit.  Your knowledge of the Bible is nothing more than a ready reference to support your extremist political views.
 
If you truly have a faith in Christ, please take the time to consider your thoughts and actions so freely inked on the tabula rasa of the WB.
 
Be an ambassador for Christ.  Draw others to your beliefs by your humble and caring words.  Go to a seminary.  Become an ordained minister.  Care for the dying.
 
Ha ha ha ha.  Just kidding.  Don't ever change.
Jeff Michka Added Jun 11, 2018 - 6:58pm
Well, guess I'm suppose  be upset TraitorLynn, the treasonist Texican who wants, on one hand, a nation breaking away from the US to be a new country.  He wrote articles about it, but is loath to admit it. "Not reading me" doesn't get you, or shouldn't get forgiven from his extreme hypocrisy.  In short, like many of his fellow rightist, they aren't  responsible for their own positions, it's always something or someone else's fault  Ol TraitorLynn wants you folks to see him as this reasonable, rational rightist so he's "your friend" and will only say "nice things" about you I suppose the lesson would be learned one day at the barricades, about to engage US Army elements, and tey'll look around for TraitorLynn, and he'll have run off, taking his. "farm implements" with him.  TraitorLynn is not only a traitor, but a coward.
Dave Volek Added Jun 11, 2018 - 8:25pm
Jeff
I always thought one way to get rid of national debt would be to split the country up, with none of these new countries willing to take even their fair share of the debt. Creditors are out of luck.
 
When the debt problem is gone, the country can join back together again--but with no debt.
 
I heard that California will have a referendum to split the state into three parts. Makes sense to me.
 
Borders can be moved around. There's no mention in Bible that it is a sin to change borders.
Jeff Michka Added Jun 12, 2018 - 6:03pm
Yeah, that's it!!! WBers should be upset at me, not Ryan, for Ryan's dislike of everyone not him.  Hey, you've been told to blame me.  That's it, when someone calls me an asshole, butthead and ass, I SHOULD TELL THAT PERSON HOW WONDERFUL THEY ARE, Fall silent, or apologize.  And no, that wasn't Ryan, just another mindless jerk, thinking I'd apologize for saying nothing nasty or insulting  to him.  Seems the anger over MY comments runs a little one-sided, but that won't bother WBers  "sense of fairness."  Now, I'm suppose to go away, but won't, so keep it up.  I can take it, you can't.
James Travil Added Jun 12, 2018 - 11:23pm
Lying Ryan it's is fundamentalist scum like you that are why I am a Satanist. Fuck you and your powerless false "god" I laugh at you both! I'm still here and will be long after your punk ass is no more. 
Jeff Michka Added Jun 15, 2018 - 4:14pm
James T: LOL

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