DRAFT: The only thing we gave North Korea was a lifeline

<p>Thing is that, no matter what we do or who is president, Kim is not going to give up his nukes. Which he already has a number of in his possession, and nothing we do short of complete regime change, that would cost us a hundred thousand casualties, would do anything about that. So what can we do? What would be "winning"?</p> <p>&#160;</p> <p>How about Kim not developing ICBMs and ceasing provocations against South Korea, Japan, and ourselves? Couple that with ceasing to use state resources to propagate computer viruses for profit and stopping counterfeiting US currency and that's a huge win. Some or all of which just might be possible. Not probable by any means, but possible.</p> <p>&#160;</p> <p>And if Lil Kim doesn't follow through, Trump has given him nothing of substance that cannot be whipped away in a heartbeat. Those who complain he gave us nothing fail to note we gave him nothing either. A one time photo op is not going to reverse the fact that the power and economic prosperity difference between him and the rest of the world grows greater each year. The only thing we gave him was a lifeline if he chooses to take it. And if he does, it would be a win for us too. So what's the problem with that?</p>

Comments

Dino Manalis Added Jun 13, 2018 - 9:27am
 We have to wait and see, North and South Korea should continue talking.  Kim has to pursue economic and political reforms, as well as respect human rights, to move closer to South Korea.  The nuclear freeze ought to be permanent, but Kim may share his nuclear arsenal and know-how with Seoul.  Peace is gaining momentum on the Korean peninsula!
Stone-Eater Added Jun 13, 2018 - 10:09am
The only thing we gave him was a lifeline
 
How gracious...
Stone-Eater Added Jun 13, 2018 - 10:10am
BTW: People who use typewriters as an avatar are defined as organized trolls here LOL
Thomas Sutrina Added Jun 13, 2018 - 10:52am
Stone-Eater you forget that Autumn Cote give out avatar typewriters, I wonder where she finds them.  And there are a lot more different typewriters still out there.
 
Remember that North Korea was first supported by the USSR.   Truman open the door to the North invading the south by not including specifically South Korea in the US protection list. China got into helping them when the USSR boycotted the UN and they voted to send troops into Korea to push back the North Korean invaders.  It was to China's advantage to have a communist neighbor.  
 
The collapse of the USSR left China helping North Korea.  The nuclear and missile technology is pure China technology because it is to their advantage to have them pointed at America.  With the war not ended it was an advantage to the north.
 
The poverty in the North is the cost it pays for not having a peace treaty.   With the sanctions applied again but with vigor by Trump maybe the cost is getting too high.  You see with China's economy and its health now tied to selling goods to America Trump has a lever to get China to apply sanctions.
 
The end of the war between North Korea and the UN peace keeping force, mostly the USA, will mean a reduction in people and military arms at the border, a huge cost to North Korea.  A promise of security even with the poor past performance of follow up US administrations is still a cost savings.  And if the security promise is in a treaty then the follow up of future administrations is much better.   
 
North Korea also gains more independence from China, a historic enemy, with the end of sanctions and trade and aid from the west.  And that gains is secure only by a treaty that is formalized by the Senate.   
 
Revolution is also expensive to suppress and North Korea has been doing this for decades.  As they see in China improving economics reduces the desire to revolt.  So the multiple reasons to work with Trump an honest broker is strong.  Obama was a dishonest broker to his own people and America's allies.  Trump has returned honesty to our relationships with allies.  At least they know where he stands when they disagree.
 
Stone-Eater Added Jun 13, 2018 - 11:10am
Thomas
 
you forget that Autumn Cote give out avatar typewriters, I wonder where she finds them. 
 
?? Never mind, no comprende.
 
But you see, the US was at one point united with the USSR against Germany, right ? What is an "enemy" by the way ? An enemy is produced in order to sell arms against that "enemy" to other forces which are convinced by the first that the latter is an enemy.
 
Take Iran. Iran is not an "enemy", it never was. It has become an "enemy" because it started to defend itself to external forces in its region and THEN a reason was found to label it enemy. 
 
9/11. Attackers were Saudis in fact. Bin Laden was a Saudi. Now, 2018, the Saudis are no enemies, right ? Because they're connected economically to the West. Who cares about some chopped heads in Riad when they have all the oil ?
 
Hypocrisy, my friend. The "axis of evil" is regularly changed according to economic interests.
Autumn Cote Added Jun 13, 2018 - 11:13am
Stone,
The typewriter avatars are generally newbies.  I give them an avatar of a typewriter if where I find them they haven't associated an image with their account.  
Stone-Eater Added Jun 13, 2018 - 11:19am
Autumn
 
Oh ??? Didn't know that. News then. Did you make that public sometime ? Maybe some of us missed that.
Dave Volek Added Jun 13, 2018 - 1:07pm
Stone
Yep she did tell us all. Someone mentioned why there were so many typewriters on WB. Almost became a conspiracy theory.
 
 
Stone-Eater Added Jun 13, 2018 - 2:56pm
How could I miss that ? I guess Mr. Alzheimer was here at that time ;-)
George N Romey Added Jun 13, 2018 - 5:27pm
After awhile these decades old tiffs get to be silly not to mention expensive to maintain.  No one is going to "nuke" the US unless provoked.  So why doesn't the US let other countries do as they please and worry about just defending our borders. If the citizens of North Korea want a better government then they need to get off their butts and obtain one.  
Thomas Sutrina Added Jun 13, 2018 - 6:28pm
When I mentioned the sudden explosion of typewriters I was thinking that she found a whole group of new writers that already knew each other.  They choose a common avatar style.   The Autumn Cote informed us that the typewriter were added as she said to newbies without an avatar.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 13, 2018 - 11:23pm
Kurt NY, 
re:"Thing is that, no matter what we do or who is president, Kim is not going to give up his nukes."
Given the reliability of the US in keeping its agreements ( see Iran) and its track record of taking out those who have (see Qadaffi)  I would say that is a wise move.
 
Unless, they can get guarantees from the Chinese they can believe.
 
It is hard for me to believe the post war boogey man NK is going to be given up for "peace" We need them to be a problem. Thats how we got our missiles in SK, despite what they wanted. 
 
If you look at this like sensible people wanting to solve a problem and all get along, you simply miss the point.
 
One should look at the history. Demonizing/dimunizing NK is an old meme. Turn that lense around and ask "who is provoking?" Do you know how many military instillations we have near China?  Yuuuuuge. And how many NK has near US?  0.
 
Mustafa