Be vocal about faith-relevant political issues

I try to have everything I do informed by my understanding of the Christian faith. And that includes evaluating political candidates, both on their own morality and on whether their policies address the issues of caring for neighbor, justice, etc. that are foundational to my faith.

 

I speculate that for evangelicals, abortion is the top priority issue and thus electing a President who will nominate anti-abortion judges to the Supreme Court. Fine. But I would also expect them to weigh in on other faith-related issues -- to lobby the Administration to end separating immigrant parents from their children, to lobby for better health care and education for the children after they are born, to oppose dog whistle approval messages to white supremacists, to challenge EPA measures that run counter to God's call for good stewardship of the earth, etc., etc. I expect of myself that I would lobby the President I chose if he/she promoted policies that I believe run counter to my faith. 

 

As for current immigration policy, that was not an Obama policy. Unaccompanied kids were held. But now even parents coming legally -- following proper procedures to seek asylum -- have been separated from their kids. Whatever the parents status, kids should not be held hostage by this policy. As I wrote, I expect people of faith, including those who share my theological understanding, to be vocal about faith-relevant issues no matter whom we voted for President. 

Comments

Flying Junior Added Jun 16, 2018 - 4:04am
Welcome Denise.
 
There have been audible noises coming from the RW faith community speaking out against this atrocity.
 
It's too little, too late as far as supporting the monster.  This is not the first issue upon which his draconian iron fist has fallen short of the mark set for us by a Christian or Jewish philosophy.
 
Bless you for stating the situation so clearly.
 
From my experience of the last thirty years in evaluating the role of faith in politics, it's a big wash.  There are far more boiler plate conservative candidates and issues clothed in the politics of faith than anything that would really make sense.
 
Have you ever checked out a Christian Voting Guide?
 
Indeed.  Let us work together to remove this speck from our eyes.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 16, 2018 - 10:58am
Wow!  How do I unlike an article!!
 
Denise, you need to shut your mouth about the Bible, because you clearly don’t understand it or follow it.  
 
I just love it when you degenerate liberals try to judge other people’s Christian faith when you don’t know or follow the Bible yourselves, you huge hypocrites.  
 
You are the typical liberal woman, suckered by the media and schools.  70% of single women vote Democrat, and the majority of married women do too.  You women are deceived like Eve.
 
You liberal women are woefully uninformed about the past.  You’ve clearly never read five biographies of the Founders, nor have you read seven conservative news sites for two months of YOUR ENTIRE LIFE! So you are horribly uninformed. 
 
I would suggest you don’t vote or comment on politics until you remedy these two glaring defects.  
 
Its not the governments job to do healthcare or welfare.
 
Then you stupidly list a catalog of Huffington Post nonsense.  Total rubbish that is expected of mindless drones. 
 
The law is the law.  If you want to come here, come here legally, or not at all.  
 
We can’t have savages coming here who don’t assimilate.  And, you need to do your job, slacker.  If you American women would have stayed at home, had children, and not gotten abortions and used contraception, we wouldn’t have wiped out 200 million Americans with abortion and contraception since the rogue SCOTUS illicitly legalized contraception and abortion in 1965 and 1973 respectively.  Then, we wouldn’t have issues with illegal immigration.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Bill H. Added Jun 16, 2018 - 11:04am
I was absolutely surprised when I found many people who I know that label themselves as "Christians" voted for this fool. Seems that they had no concerns about his issues with out of marriage sex, racial views, lust for money, disregard for the environment, constant lying and deception, and now his obvious worship of the leaders of our adversaries, other world dictators, and his disregard and hostility towards our long-time allies.
Seems that the ONLY issue was abortion.
Go figure?
Ryan Messano Added Jun 16, 2018 - 11:20am
Zip it, Bill.  You don’t understand Christianity or history.  
 
You’ve never read seven conservative sources for two months of your life either.  
 
Your entire existence on WB is mindlessly parroting leftist mantras.
opher goodwin Added Jun 16, 2018 - 11:46am
Never mind - you'll maybe wake up to the foolishness of Christianity if you ever get over your brainwashing. All those Arab religions are riddled with cultural garbage, misogyny and violence.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 16, 2018 - 11:55am
While you were busy with drugs and sex, Opher, you never learned history, Wisdom, or virtue, and are now a scorner and a scoffer. Adept in folly and clueless in Wisdom.  A very sad tombstone.  It’s never too late to be what you should have been.  It’s time for you to make up for lost time. 
 
The young generation is waking up.  We clearly see the folly of your ideas, even if you don’t.  
 
If you dont change, you will be forgotten and despised after you draw your last breath.  That life is wasted that is lived to itself.
Denise Goodman Added Jun 16, 2018 - 4:34pm
Ryan -- First it sounds as if you prefer women to be pregnant and in the kitchen.  That ship sailed a l-o-n-g time ago.  As for the rest, we all have different theological understandings but that doesn't mean we have the demonize those who differ.  I do try in my posts to use "I" language, simply state my views and not personally attack those who disagree.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 16, 2018 - 5:44pm
You are one very clueless and stubborn woman Denise.  I’m hoping your silly and selfish attitudes did not curse this world with more that three children.
 
I desperately wish we could invent a time machine and put people like you in it, to be delivered back into the wombs you can’t from.  It would be nice if we could do that for all the liberals on WB and in the world.  Then, we can let you holler for abortion and contraception to your hearts content.  I would just love to see the murder done to you that you advocate for others.
 
Your opinion means zilch because you are pathetically unaware of the Bible and history.
 
Please take your happy self to church and the library and go fix that problem.
opher goodwin Added Jun 16, 2018 - 6:10pm
Ryan - revered and loved I think.
opher goodwin Added Jun 16, 2018 - 6:11pm
Bill - it seems morality doesn't count anymore with Christians.
Denise Goodman Added Jun 16, 2018 - 6:25pm
Ryan -- you seem to be one very angry dude -- really w-a-y over the top when you suggest I and others with whom you disagree should be murdered.  Try simply posting what you believe rather than focusing on demonizing me.  You'd be a tad more credible.
Thomas Sutrina Added Jun 16, 2018 - 8:09pm
Everyone seems to forget that FDR appointed, Democratic controlled Congress approved a KKK member supreme court.  
"Hugo Lafayette Black was an American politician and jurist who served in the United States Senate from 1927 to 1937, and as an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States from 1937 to 1971." He wrote the decision on separation of church and state.  As a black, Catholic, and Jew hater he constructed a very high wall that stands today. 
 
So when congressman can not legally apply his religious morals to legislating.    Thus separation of illegal parents from their children is not a moral or social issue but only a legal one.  The practice of the courts for criminals of any type, can not discriminate, is clear with a century or more of practice.  CHANGE THE LAW.    The president with a stroke of a pen can end the separation.  But then he would be discriminating against other criminals.  And The Constitution clearly says that Congress shall determine immigration laws.  That is why Obama's DACA and open border policy from the stroke of his pen is unconstitutional because it was open ended. 
 
Abortion in America as practiced is in violation of biology that is used to determine when no abortion can occurs.  Twenty two weeks is the official period that a baby can live.  Not twenty.  And the lack of local government agencies administering the letter of the law was shown in the conviction of the Penn. Doctor.
 
TexasLynn Added Jun 16, 2018 - 9:51pm
Denise,
 
Thanks for the post.  As a Christian, I'm not 100% with you, but you’re not completely off base either.
 
Denise >> I try to have everything I do informed by my understanding of the Christian faith.
 
This statement reminds me of one of my favorite verses...
 
Colossians 3:17 (NIV) And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
 
So, what you describe is biblical.  We (Christians) are to take into account our faith in ALL things we do. :)
 
Denise >> And that includes evaluating political candidates, both on their own morality and on whether their policies address the issues of caring for neighbor, justice, etc. that are foundational to my faith.
 
Absolutely.  All things.
 
But such statements often invoke such rubbish from the left as "I was absolutely surprised when I found many people who I know that label themselves as "Christians" voted for this fool." -- Bill H.
 
Now... I did not vote for the current occupant of the oval office (or any of the other top candidates); but I don't fault any Christian who did.  Why?  Because there was NO good Christian option on the entire ballot.
 
I am continually absolutely surprised at the hypocrisy of those who fault Christians for supporting Trump.  I want to scream "Exactly WHAT could they have done, WHO could they have voted for, in THAT election that would have met with your approval of them living up to their faith?"
 
They/we picked the lesser of many, many evils.  It is what people must do in times such as these.  In no way does that compromise their faith or Colossians 3:17.  For most Christians, voting for Hillary (or Stein or Johnson) was not an option; and sitting on our hands would have just paved the way for one of these greater evils.
 
Denise >> I speculate that for evangelicals, abortion is the top priority issue and thus electing a President who will nominate anti-abortion judges to the Supreme Court. Fine.
 
Please clear something up.  Your initial paragraph seems to imply you are a Christian.  Are you?  I take it from this statement you’re not evangelical though?  Not that it matters, I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from.
 
Denise >> But I would also expect them to weigh in on other faith-related issues
 
Me too.  Are you sure they/we are not?  What makes you think they/we are not?  The answer seems to be is that they/we don’t agree with you politically.
 
As for your list... Ryan is at least right that it contains a lot of "dog whistle" leftist talking points.
 
Personally…
 
1) There is more to the "separation" of children from parents than you go in to in this post.
 
Sometimes authorities are trying to determine if this is indeed the child’s parents.
 
For illegal aliens the parents are about to go through a criminal booking process... in what demented mind, do you put the child through that also?
 
2) The "dog whistle" to white supremacists is an invention of those who suffer from TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome).  All things not left equal racist in the minds of many.
 
3) The EPA has been out of control for a long time and needed to be reined in. 
 
BUT if and when I see something coming from any agency... I will (and do speak up) to my President and elected officials.
 
To be honest... your post has the blemish of trying to remove the spec of sin from the eye of the evangelicals.  (A Christian reference to Matthew 7:1-6)
 
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+7%3A1-6&version=NIV
 
Denise >> As for current immigration policy, that was not an Obama policy.
 
It has been a long-standing policy, Denise, it occurred during the Obama administration also.  Interesting that it is just now noticed as a problem we Christians should be addressing.
 
Denise >> But now even parents coming legally -- following proper procedures to seek asylum -- have been separated from their kids.
 
OK... this may be a valid issue (though I doubt it is prevalent). Can you site some source for this assertion?
 
Denise >> As I wrote, I expect people of faith, including those who share my theological understanding, to be vocal about faith-rel
Flying Junior Added Jun 17, 2018 - 12:56am
Ryan,
 
Do you flame out like this every place you go?  You're frothing at the mouth.
 
It is by design that their is no thumbs down button.
 
Learn patience, humility and tolerance.  Practice introspection.  Treat other people with respect.
 
Show me love.  If nothing can save you, then you surely are the phoniest Christian that ever visited this site.  Christ is about love.  You just don't get it.  At all.
 
There is no Bible verse that can help you.  You come from hatred, fear and mistrust.  You could preach on both versions of the Beatitudes and turn it into a first class hate festival.
 
As far as your misguided and petty comments and personal attacks, I do the same thing sometimes when I read something that pisses me off.  I shouldn't say anything at all.  But instead I make a fool of myself.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 17, 2018 - 1:30am
Open rebuke is better than secret love.  You are in the wrong place if you think your friends are those who all tell you nice things about yourself.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 17, 2018 - 1:31am
Truth sounds like hate to those who hate truth.
Denise Goodman Added Jun 17, 2018 - 7:40am
Ryan -- I'm not seeking your love. I do find your demonizing others very over the top and actually counter-productive to your cause. You will be better served by simply saying something like, "I disagree.  This is what I believe. . . ."  Then there can be a conversation about substance and not about personal attacks.
Denise Goodman Added Jun 17, 2018 - 7:50am
Texas Lynn -- First thanks for responding to what I wrote. As to your question, I do consider myself a Christian, perhaps better described as one who tries to follow Jesus.  Actually I grew up in the Christian Church, also known as the Disciples of Christ.  I have been a church member all of my life, now in a 222-year-old congregation, once Congregational and now United Church of Christ. I've held church la positions in my congregation and at the state  level and took a dozen classes at the former Bangor Theological Seminary seeking to improve my theological understanding a lay leadership skills.  Enough -- I consider myself a "progressive Christian" with a history in mainline Protestant churches and I fully acknowledge that God speaks to folks in many ways, not only mine, and that others have different theological understandings.  The article here is a compilation of comments I posted on a local daily newspaper online site to make the point that there are other genuine Christians in addition to those who choose the "evangelical" label.   That is probably way more than you want to know.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 17, 2018 - 8:36am
Denise, two men in the Bible is encourage you to familiarize yourself with are Eli and PHinehas.  
Ryan Messano Added Jun 17, 2018 - 8:36am
*I
John Minehan Added Jun 17, 2018 - 8:50am
Let me ask a question, demonstrably showing ignorance.
 
I'm a Catholic. 
 
Roman Catholic dogma is based on Scripture but is also effected by human knowledge and our understanding of the natural world.  Thus, the Catholic teaching on abortion has changed since the time of Aquinas due to our more advanced knowledge of embryonic development, for example, we no longer think there is a period where an embryo is "vegetative," as Aristotle had taught.
 
However, if you come from a doctrinal position that is "sola Scriptura," why would you consider abortion to be a primary (or even an important) political issue?  As far as I know neither the Hebrew Bible nor Christian Gospels have a word to say about the subject. 
 
In fact, in Judaism, life begins with birth and with breathing.  Looking at the Oral Torah and the Sages, Maimonides (of Blessed Memory) writing in the Guide For The Perplexed  indicates that a woman has to undergo a medically indicated abortion because the pregnancy threatens her life, may have a religious duty to undergo the abortion as she would have a religious duty to fight for her life if threatened by a brigand (rodefa).
 
If this is true, why has this issue assumed the importance it has in the Evangelical community?     
TexasLynn Added Jun 17, 2018 - 9:08am
Denise >> I do consider myself a Christian, perhaps better described as one who tries to follow Jesus.
 
This is more the detail I was expecting. :)
 
I would say the definition of Christian is following Jesus Christ... stumbling all the way.
 
Denise >> That is probably way more than you want to know.
 
More than I asked for... but not more than I wanted to know. :)  Thank you for the response.
 
Denise >> I consider myself a "progressive Christian"...
 
I consider myself a Christian.  I happen to be many other things that my faith molds within me.  Maybe you're saying the same thing.
 
Denise >> The article here is a compilation of comments I posted on a local daily newspaper online site to make the point that there are other genuine Christians in addition to those who choose the "evangelical" label.
 
How do you define "evangelical"?  What about that term causes you to decide you are not "evangelical"?
 
Personally, I've seen a lot of various attributes applied to "evangelical".  I've always thought of it as placing total reliance on the Bible and the teachings of Christ.
 
Maybe you mean "God speaks to folks in many ways" as some of those are outside the teachings of Christ?
 
Anyway... I do appreciate you post and detailed response to my comment.
 
I wrote a Christian Primer a few months ago.  I would invite you to take a look at it, if for no other reason than to expand your theological understanding of "evangelicals". :)
 
Dino Manalis Added Jun 17, 2018 - 12:39pm
 The freedom of religion goes beyond the freedom to believe in God, it's about expressing your faith.
Thomas Sutrina Added Jun 17, 2018 - 1:35pm
The supreme court decision on the baker is not a gain for freedom of religion expression, part of freedom of speech.  The decision in Oklahoma within the week show this clearly.  It said a store that makes specialty products like the wedding cakes can not inform people that they will not make specialty products for these events like a gay wedding.  They had to take the sign down because it discriminated.   The Supreme court decided the state was bias in how it applied the law.
 
So the Nazi party by the courts can march though a Jewish filled city and the city can not stop them, freedom of speech but a store (commerce) can not put up a sign.  
Neil Lock Added Jun 17, 2018 - 1:48pm
Denise: Thanks for writing this, and welcome to WriterBeat. As an agnostic, I don't share your Christian faith. But like Voltaire, I sure as hell support your right to follow it.
 
As it happens, I'm pro-choice on abortion. Because I take the (to me) obvious answer to the question "when does a fetus become a human being?" At the moment of birth! Otherwise, I mostly agree with your article.
 
Oh, and well done for the way you have dealt with Ryan Messano.
Jeff Michka Added Jun 17, 2018 - 2:03pm
Well, Xtain Denise got her article anointed by Ryan and TraitorLynn the two most constantly professing Xtains on WB.  For Ryan, nobody loves gawd more than he, and TraitorLynn loves hypocrisy:  He whines about patriotic crap like football player taking a knee, but then wants to see the US broken up, like a confederate traitor of the 1860s, but he can't decide who he wants to be.  We get enough gawdist crap peddled on WB  as is.  Got anything interesting to say, Denise?
Denise Goodman Added Jun 17, 2018 - 2:04pm
Neil -- I, too, am pro-choice.  What I intended in my original piece was to acknowledge that for some Christians, opposition to abortion is a priority but then to suggest that be followed by health, education and other support for the children who are born to be consistent.
George N Romey Added Jun 17, 2018 - 2:18pm
Yes Denise while I might not share all of your views you at heart have the right values. Ryan and Mika are two of a kind only they aren’t smart enough to figure it out. You’ve man handled both.
Bill H. Added Jun 17, 2018 - 3:50pm
Yes, Ryan's level of hate and threats are no different than those we have heard from militant Muslims/Taliban. I have never heard of his religion, but I am hoping that the others in his church are not as radical and hateful.
Ryan, shouldn't real "Christians" practice the love that they are taught?
Ryan Messano Added Jun 17, 2018 - 5:26pm
Denise, where does the Constitution show that the government is to be paying healthcare or welfare?  Quote the Federalist Papers please?  Thank you, and Neil, that goes for you too.  Sounds like you two have a hot date with the library.
 
Neil, I pray that we would invent a time machine that would be able to bring you and Denise right back into the wombs of your mothers.  Then, please holler extra loud for an abortion there. That way, we can do to you what you want done to others. 
 
George, you are too apathetic to grasp wisdom.  So you are left spitting at it.  You were too busy partying when you were young.  Neglecting wisdom and virtue, you now hate those of us who didn't blow our youth like you did.
 
Well, tough.  We are going to dominate.  And when we do, we are going to make sure that future generations spit on your stupid youthful choices.  We are going to use you as lessons. 
 
Truth sounds like hate to those who hate truth, Bill H.  You wouldn't know the truth if it slapped you upside your head.  MuchKrap is in a worse position than you are.  You don't know enough about the Bible or Islam to be comparing me to either. 
 
Love means rebuke.   Love is not a milquetoast and mawkish live and let live stupidity.  Kindly look those words up.  I hate talking with liberals who have the vocabularies of ten year olds.  It was your schools job to educate you.  Why did they get paid to do it, and I don't, and I do a better job?  Plus, you love the teachers who lied to you, and you hate me for telling you the hard truths.
 
 
Thomas Sutrina Added Jun 17, 2018 - 8:43pm
Ryan this is but another round that we seem to be winning but are we winning because Democrats are handing this round on a silver plate or have we actually achieved it due to our own effort?  I see the resistance of congress as a sign that it is the former.  The real test is coming when the next congress is seated.  Well the GOP control both houses?  Which branch of the party will be leading?   
 
Reagan's massive re-election results, growth in the economy, end of the cold war, less regulations didn't convince the GOP that his was the path to follow.   That was clearly signed by the one term of Bush.  Still didn't get when congress through out Gingrich.  And to top it off Bush Jr. seem to follow the Democrat play book for 8 years.  We were nation building a concept more in line with Socialism.  
 
So Ryan I have wait and see attitude.
Ryan Messano Added Jun 18, 2018 - 12:06am
I hope you are right, Thomas. It looks like it.  
 
I hope America learns.  If another Democrat gets elected, we are toast.
Flying Junior Added Jun 18, 2018 - 1:43am
Ryan is not a Christian.  Not in any sense that I understand.
 
What part of Love Thy Neighbor do you not understand?
Stone-Eater Added Jun 18, 2018 - 4:01am
Boah. Ryan fucks up another article LOL
Jeffry Gilbert Added Jun 18, 2018 - 5:07am
Yawn. Yuuge.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Jun 18, 2018 - 5:08am
If another Democrat gets elected, we are toast.
 
DUHmerica is toast whomever gets "elected". 
Thomas Sutrina Added Jun 18, 2018 - 12:06pm
I do know that Ryan is not a socialist, Marxist, monarchist, 7 century Muslim, etc. that leaves a very high probability that he is a christian, jew, and a few other choices that all believe in liberty and the individual.  The list above share one belief, the collective or group.  Citizens are to conform.   
 
It appears that I am against Muslims.  What I am against is the pervasive practice and belief in collectivism.  Combine this with the planet being the promise land of God and the goal of the faith to place the planet under one God, and you have ISIS and the early twentieth century Armenian Holocaust which some day ISIS will be defined as creating another holocaust.   
 
It seem that the leaders of the collective of Islam the threaten any Muslim that does not conform with death, have not understood that their God is the God of Abraham in the early books of the Jewish faith and the same God as the Christian faith.  They without actual justification throw out what doesn't agree with their goals God speaking through other members of the book, the One God shared.  This is them creating MAN'S LAWS, NOT FOLLOWING GOD'S LAWS.  
Thomas Sutrina Added Jun 18, 2018 - 12:11pm
A simple reading of the Old Testament will show, at least I think it is obvious, that no head of state is a profit that has the opportunity to hear God.  And has the responsibility to proclaim what is heard no mater what the consequences.  Since Islam from the founder created a state that the profit head then it makes logical sense that only two thing are possible.  He stopped being a profit or he is the only exception that created a line of heads of state profits.  I myself believe with out proof that the first is more likely.
Flying Junior Added Jun 18, 2018 - 3:30pm
I always considered King David a prophet.  In my memory many of his psalms are direct revelations of the relationship between God and men.  It would be interesting to search out which psalms are the best examples.  Does David's knowledge of the Holy Spirit make him a prophet?
TexasLynn Added Jun 18, 2018 - 4:16pm
FJ >> I always considered King David a prophet.
 
I was unaware there was any debate as to that question...  Peter, in Acts quotes David as prophesying Judas' betrayal of Jesus.  Some may question if Peter was right (though not I); but the reference was there.
John Minehan Added Jun 18, 2018 - 4:45pm
 
There are 48 male prophets in the Talmud.
Thomas Sutrina Added Jun 18, 2018 - 9:16pm
I tried to find a prophecy that 'King David' said.  I didn't find one but that is not an absolute fact, just my attempt.  I did find a lot of prophecy about David being God's chosen King and about him being chosen.  Can anyone actually find a prophecy by 'King David' not before he became the king.
Jeff Michka Added Jun 22, 2018 - 3:41pm
Okay, Sutrino…"I see Ryan Messano becoming gawd,"-King David.  Then, from Asshole 5;17:  "Unto us a mindless zealot will be born and he shall be called "Ryan."  There are too many folks, spouting geezus this and geezus that, hiding behind Xtainity as a matter of day to day, TraitorLynn wants America broken up, but wants to be an American patriot, but no one calls him out, is it his so-called faith that keeps people from calling TraitorLynn what he is, a traitor. No, I don't believe in gawd, Ryan believes in gawd, just ask him or don't, and he's good reason to reject any faith he professes.  We , find Sutrino begging prophecy, but about King David proclaiming the coming of FDR...
TexasLynn Added Jun 22, 2018 - 10:18pm
Thomas,
I don't think David prophesied that much. I only apply the label because of what Peter said before Pentecost...
 
As I mentioned, Peter spoke of the Holy Spirit speaking through David concerning Judas.
 
Acts 1:15-17 (NIV) In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty) 16 and said, “Brothers and sisters,[d] the Scripture had to be fulfilled in which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus. 17 He was one of our number and shared in our ministry.”
 
Peter continued to quote David (in Psalms) saying that Judas had to be replaced.
 
Acts 1:20 (NIV) “For,” said Peter, “it is written in the Book of Psalms:“‘May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,’ (from Psalm 69:25) and, “‘May another take his place of leadership." from (Psalm 109:8)
 
Based on this, they replaced Judas with Matthias as an apostle.
 
Hope this helps.
Flying Junior Added Jun 26, 2018 - 3:14am
Bros,
 
A prophet as we understand it was a man or woman used by God to communicate with his people.  Not every prophet foresaw the future.
 
Daniel was not a prophet, but an interpreter of dreams which came true.
 
A prophet was a mediator between God and his people.
 
Samuel?  Nathan?  Micah? 
 
Not every prophet got his or her own book in the Bible labelled as one of the major or minor prophets.
 
We are getting a little bit legalistic.
wsucram15 Added Jun 26, 2018 - 11:10am
Yipppeeee another woman's voice on this issue and she was much nicer. Then she met some of you guys, lol.  This could be fun.
Thanks and welcome to Writer Beat.
Bill H. Added Jun 26, 2018 - 11:43am
It is nice to see a religious person who still shows caring for planet on which we live and all creatures and people. Exactly what is taught in the "Good Book".
Seems that many these days use religion as a tool for hate and selfishness.
And then they wonder why they are looked down upon by others.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jun 26, 2018 - 11:32pm
Thomas Sutrina,
re:"I do know that Ryan is not a socialist, Marxist, monarchist, 7 century Muslim, etc. that leaves a very high probability that he is a christian, jew, and a few other choices that all believe in liberty and the individual."
 
I never thought you would resort to False Dichotomy
 
Moreover, lets see about "Liberty and the individual, I quote
 
RM:"Denise, you need to shut your mouth about the Bible, because you clearly don’t understand it or follow it.  "
 
Liberty and the individual LOL
 
Mustafa
 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jun 27, 2018 - 12:53am
Very well written, Denise.  I’m not a religious person by any means but to me you show a commitment to your principles.  Thank you.
 
 
Aaron Johnson Added Jun 27, 2018 - 2:37am
So Ryan, who can't find a church to submit to is lecturing others about Christianity?  OK...
Aaron Johnson Added Jun 27, 2018 - 2:43am
I've learned as a Christian that it's better to not focus on others, though I do at times.  We need to focus on Jesus.  When I look at my role as a Christian, I ask myself this simple question.  Am I displaying the fruits of his spirit?  Yes, I found some of the behavior of evangelical Christians hypocritical, but that's human nature.  Through prayer, we hope that it will guide us to act in his will.  
 
It's difficult to find a politician that will mirror our faith, but when given choices, you want to choose one that displays moral leadership.  I think it's obvious that our current one has little.
Flying Junior Added Jun 27, 2018 - 3:39am
Try yelling at a brick wall, Aaron.
Aaron Johnson Added Jun 27, 2018 - 9:19am
FJ, you're right and I know better.
TexasLynn Added Jun 27, 2018 - 9:55am
AJ >> It's difficult to find a politician that will mirror our faith, but when given choices, you want to choose one that displays moral leadership.  I think it's obvious that our current one has little.
 
In defense of my Christian brethren who did vote for Trump... I'll ask again.  "What, in your mind, could they have done, who could they have voted for in the last election that would have fulfilled their Christian obligation."
 
Answer that... I'll give your complaints of their/our hypocrisy a little more credence.
 
I hold no grudge against Christians who voted for Trump; no more than one who voted for Clinton or any of the other very flawed candidates.
 
At least we agree that "We need to focus on Jesus."
Stone-Eater Added Jun 27, 2018 - 12:29pm
Jesus has been dead for 2000 years - IF he ever lived. And if, he was just a founder of a sect which, over time, became a religion. 
Stone-Eater Added Jun 27, 2018 - 12:30pm
BTW: Focus on today's reality. Not on any imagination.
TexasLynn Added Jun 27, 2018 - 1:28pm
SE >> Jesus has been dead for 2000 years...
 
And... if one believes in the accounts, has been risen (from the dead) for over 2000 years.
 
My point (in reference to moderation) was that IF you believe in God you shouldn't just do it half-heartedly.  If there is a God, I don't think that is what He would want from us.  The same goes to not believing... embrace it and live it.
 
I'm OK with you (and most on WB) and many others not believing.  Jesus said (if He existed) to offer truth and if it's rejected just move on.  Thus, I don't feel the need to advocate for Christ every time someone makes a statement counter to my faith.  Free will is a wonderful thing. :)
 
I wish all of you non-believers the best this world has to offer.
Wayne McMichael Added Jun 27, 2018 - 3:57pm
Faith is for people who don't know God.
Stone-Eater Added Jun 28, 2018 - 8:40am
Lynn
 
Fair enough :-)
Wayne McMichael Added Jun 28, 2018 - 9:23am
Love does not require atonement. That one fact renders Christianity and especially the cross, irrelevant.
Denise Goodman Added Jun 28, 2018 - 9:56am
There are many different theological understandings under the broad label of Christianity.  Some do require the atonement.  Others -- and I fall in this category -- see being or at least trying to be a Christian means following Jesus, especially as that relates to caring for the poor and supporting the marginalized. For me, feeling the presence of 
God in my life -- providing direction at critical times -- is also important. Some will argue that I can't be  Christian without the atonement.  I try to say where I am coming from without judging others.
Wayne McMichael Added Jun 28, 2018 - 10:10am
Christianity started as a Jewish Gnostic myth religion and that is good. The Romans hijacked it however and turned it into an evil blood cult. The gospels were invented by the Romans in the second, third and fourth centuries. Here is the rub... Christianity teaches that you are not worthy and ONLY cleansed by the blood of Christ... which is ridiculous and by cosmic law, enables Luciferians to sacrifice babies... and yes they do, and get away with it, because of Christianity. People do good because people are good, basically good, in spite of the lie Christianity teaches. If you ask your preacher, they will lie to you, just to protect their retirement. IF Christianity does not get back to its roots as a myth religion it will fade into history... and it should. So good for you Denise Goodman, for having the sense to see through that scam that lie. By the way, the pope is in hot water and we may have seen the last pope, I hope so. If he and the Roman Catholic Church are convicted of child trafficking and murder (sacrificing babies), it will become necessary to accept the truth and get back to Christianity's roots, if it is to survive. The idea that Love requires atonement may be THE MOST DESTRUCTIVE idea in history.
Atom Rider Added Jun 28, 2018 - 10:59pm
Wow, nothing gets people fired up like politics and religion combined together. My God says its a sin to believe, there are only facts of what IS, 
Atom Rider Added Jun 28, 2018 - 11:26pm
Oooops, hit the wrong button. as I was saying....
Beliefs are irrelevant. One thing is for sure, if Humans are involved, it's guaranteed 100% BS. That goes for all religions and governments. By definition, words are fictitious representations. There is a thing and a word for a thing and that's one thing too many. Confucius say, "It's better to remain silent and let others think you are a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
 
That said, lets consider other fictitious creations like Santa Clause, that only exist in men's minds: Like,
States,
Nations,
Laws,
Religions,
Philosophy,
Fake News,
Trees, ooops, those a real, flowers, oranges, property like my car, house, etc. all real.
 
Anything with a written word, like if I write "hammer" on this piece of paper, it will never drive a nail= Not real. Only exist in our minds, ether, like a fart in the wind.
 
If it's not OK in your mind to separate families. Blame the parents, not the president, suddenly He's the bad guy and it's all his fault? Even the things our gov't did before he was president seem to be all his fault. Just listen to the CIA fake news you watch and believe, without one shred of evidence, "duh, ok if you say so on the news it must be true, duhhhherrrrr." Some liberals think the FBI should be allowed to pick our president for us, duuuuhhhhhrrrrrr. 
 
All of you, proclaiming to be this or that, you only trap and limit yourself. Be like Joe Friday, "Just the facts ma'am." Stick to what's real, don't attach yourself to your own thinking with biased beliefs and mental constructs.
 
Go and ask a Buffallo, a Buffallo will insist, God is a Huge Buffalo. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ0e8JRu_9U
 
Jeff Michka Added Jul 1, 2018 - 5:28pm
If Denise or anyone else wants to walk and talk about Geezus, fine.  I insist you don't tell me I have to.  Ryan Messano is absolute proof their is no gawd,  "On the third day, the Buffalo rose from the dead."  However, if you, Denise, like TraitorLynn, want to Hide behind gawd, you're liable to hear about it.
Wayne McMichael Added Jul 1, 2018 - 7:16pm
God is real, christianity is a fake satanic blood cult. The fact that there is order in the universe, instead of white noise chaos, proves the existence of an architect of order, Love. In my belief system now, Consciousness is God, and we are gods, a point of awareness on an infinite field of all knowing, infinite wisdom, infinite Love, Consciousness:) 
Denise Goodman Added Jul 1, 2018 - 7:34pm
Jeff -- I try only to write what I believe without telling others what they should believe.  I was asked by the operator of this web site if she could assemble some posts from another site and post them here and I agreed.  I suspect she figured it would generate many comments and it seems she was correct.
Thomas Sutrina Added Jul 1, 2018 - 8:40pm
I suggest you do a little searching, Wayne McM.,  before proclaiming what you think as a fact, "The gospels were invented by the Romans in the second, third and fourth centuries."   Nicene Christianity became the state church of the Roman Empire with the Edict of Thessalonica in 380 AD.  But the John's Revelation on Patmos (Revelation 1-22) was issued in 95 AD, the last official addition.  Ref: http://biblehub.com/timeline/  Two search terms and on the first screen.  I was very skeptical about your time line so I searched for facts.
 
Very little effort and then you do not put your foot in your mouth.   Reading the rest of your statements it appears that little effort, little actual knowledge, and a big ego is the only conclusion I can make. 
Wayne McMichael Added Jul 1, 2018 - 9:27pm
Thomas Sutrina Thank you for participating. There is one undeniable fact that renders Christianity irrelevant... "Love does not require atonement". This idea you have of a father figure, separate from creation, making judgments on people can not be supported. A sin is just a missed stitch in the tapestry of your life, and learning experience, and only hurts you, because you are god, not God but a speck on the infinite whole... you only sin against yourself. Revelation is all about sacred geometry, not prophecy. I can easily make my case here because I know all there is to know about Christianity. That is why I can reject it outright. I wouldn't dare do that if I didn't know what I am talking about. I don't have time to do that here, but I can suggest a good video from the one who has done the best research on the topic, being Richard Carrier. There are several, but here is one to start with below. Again, your Consciousness is God Consciousness... there is only One and it is infinite. Anything you choose to put between what you perceive as your self and that Consciousness is your doing, you don't need a middle man. The dimension we inhabit, perceive, is defined by gravity and it's interaction with consciousness, as consciousness collapses the wave into what we perceive as matter... however there is no "matter". When you block gravity, and you can with magnetism, you are in that field of consciousness, another dimension, where there is no time, and everything is everywhere at the same time (so to speak:)... anti-gravity. That is our exterestials travel instantly all over the universe. There are also dimensions of consciousness, densities corresponding to frequencies, just like the musical scale. Well this is getting too deep for most:) Carrier does not believe in extraterestrials or any of that, which is curious to me, considering his logic:) But we won't go there:) It must seem like arrogance to you:) Try this and get "your" history straight:) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_s_FbTBPgg&t=2591s
Wayne McMichael Added Jul 1, 2018 - 9:32pm
BTW, we stream consciousness, in this dimension. That streaming is what we perceive as the passing of time:) That is why when we get excited, time literally slows down for us, because we stream more consciousness to deal with the crises at hand:)
Denise Goodman Added Jul 1, 2018 - 9:32pm
Wayne -- Just a note that not all who seek to follow Jesus and consider themselves Christians believe in blood atonement. Fundamentalists will consider that blasphemy but that's OK. I am one who does not believe in that but still consider myself a struggling following of Jesus.
Wayne McMichael Added Jul 1, 2018 - 9:40pm
Denise Goodman I get it... but there was no Jesus:) There is no evidence of a Jesus, but we do have evidence that it was a Gnostic myth religion... that preceded the time of "Jesus" :) Keep growing, it is why we are here, to raise our consciousness density:) NEVER STOP. That may be the worst thing about religion... dogma. Religion is where Spirit goes to die:) 
Thomas Sutrina Added Jul 1, 2018 - 9:48pm
Wayne all I got from reading your understanding of a universe without a God is a listening to a character building the 'tower of babel.'   You see Wayne the unknown doesn't change.  Theology puts forth theories that are unproven which are just as unproven as the theories put forth by those that do not believe in a God.   It is obvious to me that you really do not have a clear picture of your theory and I know that I do not have a clear picture of may pieces of a theory.  So I choose not to present my babel. 
Thomas Sutrina Added Jul 1, 2018 - 9:55pm
Wayne believe in a God or not their still is the laws of Nature and of Nature's God.  parts of this natural law is hard wired and successful society that exist for centuries add other parts.   This human added parts fall into two  basic buckets.  The majority of humans believe in a master mind that say that humans society is divided into classes and the upper classes lives are more important then lower classes.  The second bucket is built around individual rights ans society goal is to minimize the friction between individuals.
Wayne McMichael Added Jul 1, 2018 - 10:13pm
So nature makes laws? hahahaha... dude, you are not on my level. But keep growing, and I promise I have ample knowledge of what I believe:) You may get there in this lifetime if you keep seeking:)
Thomas Sutrina Added Jul 2, 2018 - 8:15am
The society of lions, elephants, whales, monkeys, bees, etc. have rules and proper actions.  So how did this come about?  Call it what you want, our founders choose 'laws of nature.'  
Wayne McMichael Added Jul 2, 2018 - 8:57am
I found this and it is mostly true and explains a lot. Yawl wouldn't be here if you weren't seeking. So forgive any impatience I may have displayed, and enjoy:) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CF0sDeaQDjo&list=FLZMzYPyZ-Wn2Y1bNMxrFmFA&index=2&t=0s
TexasLynn Added Jul 2, 2018 - 11:34am
Denise G >> I try only to write what I believe without telling others what they should believe.
 
That is a very good policy.  I try to do the same.  I'm happy and eager to share what I believe (as are many obviously), but celebrate the free will to choose.  I take no offense from those who believe and say my faith is wrong as I believe the same of theirs.
 
Your policy is exactly what Christ taught his followers to do.  Offer the truth and if rejected, move on.
 
Denise G >> I was asked by the operator of this web site if she could assemble some posts from another site and post them here and I agreed.
 
That is how Autumn ensnares many of us.  I hope you'll post something of your own volition in the near future.
 
You and I (I suspect) disagree quite a bit on the details of our Christian faith.  That does not mean I wouldn't value your perspective.
 
Denise G >> I suspect she figured it would generate many comments and it seems she was correct.
 
She has an eye for that. :)
 
Denise G >> Just a note that not all who seek to follow Jesus and consider themselves Christians believe in blood atonement.  Fundamentalists will consider that blasphemy but that's OK.
 
As a "fundamentalist", I wouldn't use the word blasphemy but rather the observation that it is not what Christ (as documented in the New Testament) taught.
 
The main message from Christ was that atonement was necessary to reconcile the perfect (God) with the imperfect (man); and that HE (God) was that atonement.  HE was a gift of the debt paid that we can accept or reject.
 
I don't write this simply to say you are wrong; but to clarify the view of us "fundamentalist".
 
Denise G >> I am one who does not believe in that but still consider myself a struggling following of Jesus.
 
Amen sister! :)  We follow, we stumble, we get up.  Repeat as needed. :)
Wayne McMichael Added Jul 2, 2018 - 11:39am
In the Apostles Creed... Do yawl even know why Jesus had to be conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary? 
Thomas Sutrina Added Jul 2, 2018 - 3:52pm
Wayne very few people throughout history have done a great job of presenting theology.  History define those that achieve this level of clarity each century to no more then one or two persons.   So you should not be surprised that I did not get a clear picture of what you said.  And I know myself enough to know I also am not on history's list.  
Jeff Michka Added Jul 2, 2018 - 7:35pm
All this talk over a mythical being that doesn't exist.  Again, you can believe and be as foolish as you want, but don't demand "You gotta believe."  No, I don't.
Denise Goodman Added Jul 2, 2018 - 8:47pm
Who is demanding here? I just discussed what I believe.
Jeff Michka Added Jul 2, 2018 - 9:50pm
There are too many so called Xtains that will say otherwise, including a few rightists replying here.  They just LOVE gawd, and nobody can say how screwed up their "faith-based" politics is, because they believe in Geezus.  And like the former Rs, "Never attack another R."  SOS, Denise.
TexasLynn Added Jul 2, 2018 - 10:41pm
Denise, I'm sorry you had to experience the likes of Jeff Michka on your first post.  I'm sure his vile #$@%  has driven many a potential writer far, far away from WB.
 
Here is the best advise I can give you... 
 
Jeff Michka commenting on your post is like a dog #$@%ing on your lawn.
 
Reading a Jeff Michka comment is like inspecting a pile of dog #$@% for something of value.
 
Replying to a Jeff Michka comment is like intentionally stepping in dog #$@%.
 
Best to just acknowledge him and his #$@% as #$@% and ignore it as best you can.
 
NEVER acknowledge Jeff Michka.
Denise Goodman Added Jul 2, 2018 - 10:42pm
That's precisely why I originally posted comments on a local newspaper article.  I am bothered that some assume that the right wing of the church represents all Christians.  I come out of the mainline Protestant tradition that you generally will find is more inclusive (sexual orientation-wise, etc.), more concerned with caring for the poor and standing with the marginalized and more open to or at least respectful of other faiths
Jeff Michka Added Jul 3, 2018 - 11:23am
Better do what TraitorLynn, WB's leading hypocrite tells you to do, or he won't be happy.  Ask TraitorLynn about his "belief" and patriotism, since he loves America SOOOOO much, but wants the Union broken up.  He's angry about being reminded he's a flaming rightist hypocrite.  May take some of the shine off his supposed religious stuff, which usually turns to bashing me personally.  NEVER believe TraitorLynn...his faith is "just to fool the rubes."  He has neither character or "faith," just lies and rank hypocrisy.
Wayne McMichael Added Jul 3, 2018 - 12:05pm
hahahaha... part of our Spiritual growth and reasons for being here is learning to deal with unreasonable opposition:) It truly is all part of the process. But it is obvious that some are just not willing to address their purpose:)
HpO Added Jul 12, 2018 - 7:11pm
Seriously?  You wanna "be vocal about faith-relevant issues"?  Then pray to God & Jesus and prophesy to, and at times, against, fellow born-again Christian brothers and sisters.  "Faith-[less] POTUS, SCOTUS, Republicans, Democrats, NATO, EU, Russia, China - and yourself, if of little "faith" - don't care about "faith" or its "relevant issues"!