Time to move on from the outmoded view of Nations!

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What is a nation?

 

It's a territory occupied by a people with a shared culture, history, language or descent. Or is it?

 

Well increasingly in this multicultural world it isn't.

 

Nations are artificial constructs created by people. They are political constructs artificially drawn on maps. Some are mere political decisions as with most of Africa and the Middle East. Some are the result of conquest by various robber-barons and empires like most of Europe. Some were established by colonialization - like the USA, Canada and Australia. 

 

Nations are not stable. They change. Their boundaries alter. They fall apart and are split up. A study of old maps show this very clearly.

 

Within any nation - such as the USA or the UK - there are many languages spoken, many religions followed, many cultures incorporated, many races and creeds. There is nothing uniform or homogenous.

 

The cultural identity of a nation is a product of many different cultures and it is never fixed; it changes constantly.

 

Nations try to create an identity for themselves and glue people together with flags, national anthems, national costume, constitutions, pledges of allegiance, kings, Presidents, prayers, pageantry, national identity, military displays and other artificial psychological ploys to create a mass psychology that binds people together.

 

It is totally artificial. It is also extremely transparent. 

 

The whole idea of nations has no real substance.

 

I would suggest that it is holding us back; that we need to think more globally and not be restricted to this outmoded idea of nationalism. All people are important. The whole planet is important. We need to solve problems universally. Competition between these artificial groupings causes wars, poverty and stops us solving the huge environmental problems, crime, terrorism and religious fanaticism that are assailing us.

 

Let's do away with nations! Dump your flags - they're just pieces of cloth!

Comments

opher goodwin Added Jul 9, 2018 - 4:44am
The fiction of nations was an important one in enabling cohesion among large groups of disparate people. It enabled us to move from small tribes into groups of millions. We psychologically needed the fictions of nations, kings and money. They were necessary in order to make civilisation possible. They were the glue that held us together. But nations are really just land without boundaries. Kings are just people in fancy dress with pomp and ceremony thrown in. Money is just bits of paper. Their power only resides in the psychology, the belief we have in them. If we stop believing (as happens occasionally) the bottom drops out of fiction.
I would suggest that it is now time to move on. We need to think more globally and set about solving the world's problems. These fictions need to be replaced by better, more modern fictions. We have one planet. We are all one people. Time to unite and throw out the old worn-out fictions.
Kristen Foley Added Jul 9, 2018 - 7:45am
It's a territory occupied by a people with a shared culture, history, language or descent. Or is it?
 
It isn’t.  You can look up the definition, it mentions nothing about shared culture, language or descent.  In fact, in every nation you will find different cultures, languages and people from many different descents.
opher goodwin Added Jul 9, 2018 - 7:49am
Kristen - definition of nation: 
a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular state or territory.
It seems to mention culture, language and descent to me. What definition are you using?
Kristen Foley Added Jul 9, 2018 - 8:02am
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nation
opher goodwin Added Jul 9, 2018 - 8:10am
Kristen - well that seems a very confused and ambiguous definition. I used the one that came up on Google which is the Oxford one which is much clearer and I would say is more widely accepted.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 11:01am
Nah, we will keep our nation.  
 
We dont want third world hordes invading and molesting 1,400 kids as they did in Rotherham, While busybodies like Badlose shrieked “racist” if anyone dared to say Muslims were raping girls.  
opher goodwin Added Jul 9, 2018 - 11:14am
Baby boy - you still think you can play with the big boys. Firstly you aren't bright enough - your intellect is shit. No wonder you are a dropout. Secondly your experience is nil. You have to get beyond the end of your street and see a bit of life before you've got anything to speak about. Thirdly your brainwashing shows every time you open your mouth. Your parents did a right job on you. Fourthly your sexually repressed homosexuality has poisoned your addled brain. It shows with all your rants on porn, sex ed and sex in general. It scares the shit out of you. Fifthly you are emotionally out of control and cannot control yourself. Those videos of you ranting are priceless. What an embarrassment you are.
So - to sum it up - you're out of your depth, not even in the same league, an utter embarrassment and a silly piece of shit.
Get back to the kindergarten brat.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 9, 2018 - 11:47am
Oph
 
Don't waste your time with Ryboy. He's not worth it. Brains can rarely be extended LOL
Stone-Eater Added Jul 9, 2018 - 11:50am
BTW
 
I agree. We can overcome "nations". When we (and others) find out that we are and feel the same as us.
 
But that seems to be an impossible task.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 9, 2018 - 11:52am
BTW2: Now they will say that we're idealists an dreamers. Why not ? Somebody who has no dreams and goals he fights for is a DEAD CONSUMER.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 9, 2018 - 11:57am
BTW3: Isn't it strange that people who fight for understanding and togetherness are called delusionals, and the brickheads who like wars and divisions are looked upon ?
 
Poor humanity. Seems like bibles and qurans and no matter which Pennywises didn't have a lasting effect LOL
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 12:02pm
This is why America is dominant in the world, and hellhole supporting countries like Badlose's Britain and Stone's country are full of envious and jealous inhabitants.  You losers dream of having the prosperity and freedom America has.  And keep your mouths shut on our nation until you learn it's history, you busybody nitwits.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 12:06pm
Poor Badlose, getting smoked by a high school dropout, and you were a TEACHER.  Must be pretty humiliating.  Hope you have an appetite for humble pie, because you will be getting served it a lot on WB.
 
Wise men learn from other's mistakes, fools by their own. 
 
Thank you very much, Badlose, for giving WB an excellent lesson in our leftwing schools.  You have nicely demonstrated that teachers are proud, pretentious, profane, lying know nothings.  I couldn't have told anyone any better than you have demonstrated.  You have my sincerest gratitude. 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 12:07pm
Repetition is the mother of learning, so you will be hearing every day about what a proud, pretentious, profane charlatan you are.
 
Once you accept that, that's half the solution, then you can become what you were designed to be.  So you ought to be thanking me.  Instead, you hate me.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 9, 2018 - 12:08pm
Ryboy
 
Brr. Brr. Brr. Like shave. Crk. Crk. Crk. Like covfefe.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 12:12pm
Not sure what brr, brr, brr, and crk, crk, crk means.  Sounds like what an old man says and sounds like on a cold day. 
Stone-Eater Added Jul 9, 2018 - 12:13pm
BTW:
 
I don't know ANYBODY here that wants to live in your hate culture (if you represent it). Go traveling around the world to see what life is about. But I guess you got no guts for that when it's not properly organized by an English speaking guide who tells you which bucket to piss in LOL
Stone-Eater Added Jul 9, 2018 - 12:15pm
BTW: History ???? 300 years or so you call history ?? Man man...
Stone-Eater Added Jul 9, 2018 - 12:21pm
BTW2: A lot of people wanted to go to the US when it was a country for hope. But now that has changed due to foreign "policy". If you don't realize that you live on the dark side of the moon.
 
But surely you don't know Pink Floyd, because you're more the George Michael or Boy George generation :))
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 12:22pm
 
You must be blind, mostly everyone but your merry band of 12 degenerate liberals, including Badlose, Michka, and the Satanist Travil do. 
 
Truth sounds like hate to those who hate truth. 
 
No, history is thousands of years, and you barely know any of it. That's why everything seems new, hateful, and foreign to you.  What kind of disgraceful education system indoctrinated you?  Mine wasn't too good either, but I generously supplemented it in the library.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 12:24pm
Homeschool your kids!!!  Badlose is an example of the monsters that indoctrinate little tots.  Since he doesn't believe in sexual self control, I wouldn't be surprised if he's molested a few along the way too.  He'd call it perfectly normal and tell the rest of us to grow up and learn how nature works.  Sick degenerate.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 9, 2018 - 12:26pm
12. Ok. Name them and explain the exact POV's of them and also cite where they said "I'm a liberal" and why. Do some work. Then we can carry on. But without insults ok ?
Stone-Eater Added Jul 9, 2018 - 12:31pm
Ryboy
 
I pardon you because you admitted that your education system "wasn't too good either". But it's never too late to learn. Not sitting in a library, though :)
 
Leroy Added Jul 9, 2018 - 12:55pm
The concept of borders didn't solidify under after WWII.  Prior to then, the history of the world was the history of warfare.  Since the concept of nations and borders, there are been relatively fewer deaths.  We live in relative peace, unprecedented in the past.  There were times in China, for example, when one-third of the nation was wiped out by war.  It just doesn't happen today.  Borders and nations are a good thing.  That is not to say that we couldn't have done better and establishing borders and nations after WWII.  "Good fences make good neighbors."
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 12:58pm
Sure, Flying J, you, Michka, Badlose, Bill H, Cliff M somewhat, Fernando Alcoforado, EABC, Travil who is a conservative fraud and a moral degenerate, Uriah Heep…..errrr...Mustafa, Gregory McNeil, and Mr. Green somewhat. 
opher goodwin Added Jul 9, 2018 - 1:02pm
Stone - yes it is a dream. It will take a long time to happen but it will. Without dreamers and idealists we'd never get anywhere. It's these people who push back the horizons and make the impossible possible.
The warmongers and brickheads are clogging up the system and holding us back.
opher goodwin Added Jul 9, 2018 - 1:23pm
Listen child - I will explain this once. I'll write slowly so you can keep up.
I'm 69 years old.
I have a whole bunch of qualifications including a London University degree.
I have had a hugely successful career that saw me managing the futures and lives of 1200 people and a multimillion pound budget.
I have raised four fabulous children and am involved with 5 smashing grandchildren.
I have travelled the world and lived abroad, hitch-hiking, driving and walking through the greatest landscapes and the most amazing sights.
I have friends of all types - all religions, all sexual orientation, all colours and genders.
I have a great sex life.
I have worked in a great range of jobs from dishwasher to steel foundry.
I've lived through the sixties, seen every band worth seeing and rubbed shoulders with some of the biggest stars around.
I have discussed all matters of importance with the most intelligent people.
I have had experiences that you could not even imagine.
I have read thousands of books and written over sixty.
Now just stop and ask yourself what a stupid, brainwashed dropout like you is doing even conversing with someone like me. I find your stupidity insulting to my intelligence. You are so limited that your puerile opinions are not worthy of consideration. You obviously have major hang-ups as a result of your abusive upbringing. Your repressed homosexuality displays itself in your sexual attitudes. You are so confused and indoctrinated that you see it as a sin. While I feel sorry for you the fact that you can't keep your silly mouth shut and continue to berate your betters with your stupidity and push your extreme views on people who are so obviously beyond you on many levels is irksome. 
Now my advice to you is to go away and grow up, get a life, get some life experience, get some help for your sexual problems and get some help for your emotional outbursts. 
You are out of your league and a minnow swimming around whales. Your arrogance is blinding you to reality. I have nothing else to say to you so fuck off, sling your hook, get back to your kindergarten and try to be a useful human being. You have nothing in common with me and I have no desire to debate anything with worthless children like you.
 
opher goodwin Added Jul 9, 2018 - 1:32pm
Leroy - I don't know where you got that idea from. Nations have existed on this planet for thousands of years.
It wasn't nations that put an end to wars. That was the result of many things - weapons of mass destructions, commerce and a global economy, alliances like NATO, global bodies such as the UN, communication, surveillance and diplomacy come to mind.
Nations have created conflict. The major source of conflict comes from the Middle East where new nations were drawn up following the war without regard to tribal boundaries or existing nations. It was a timebomb.
Somewhere in the future we will mature enough to think more globally and do away with the concept of nations. They are arbitrary and fictional and they get in the way of progress.
James E. Unekis Added Jul 9, 2018 - 1:35pm
Why this mad push for globalism?  I found it very hard to deal with county officials when seeking services for my autistic son.  Any dealings I've had with State government were  completely futile and it takes an act of GOD to be heard a the Federal level.  In addition the bigger the government entity is the more authoritarian it becomes.  Further the bigger the government is the less it can understand issues facing smaller groups and individuals.  It becomes too far removed and too abstract and too corrupt.  If you think that a global government will be benevolent then think again.  Think of the State DMV or the IRS on steroids and you might start to get the picture.  They would rule with an iron fist; the only ones benefiting would be world government employees, huge corporations and the mega rich.
 
We are losing our liberties under a run-away Federal government.  What liberties do you really think would be afforded the individual at a world-wide level?  Each stroke of a pen in legislation would be too wide to serve the unique needs of individuals, small communities and even cities.
 
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.  Unfortunately I think we will indeed end up with a global government; those expecting utopia will instead be living in hell right beside those of us who tried to warn you.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 1:38pm
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 1:39pm
Old Codgers like you are despicable, and I viciously attack your type as you are the root of all our problems.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 1:40pm
Oh, and no one my age who shares your beliefs can hang.  So your future is doomed.  I can mop the floor with you, and I'm nearly  half your age.  You honestly think the young you've corrupted will be able to hang?  LOL. 
opher goodwin Added Jul 9, 2018 - 1:47pm
James - I share your concerns about the power and distance of government but I don't think it can get anymore distant than it already is. The answer to that is a mixture of global and local.
We need a global approach because so many things cannot be addressed by nations. They cross national boundaries:
Environmental issues
Pollution
Mass extinctions
Mass migration
Poverty
War
Terrorism
Religious fundamentalism
Multinationals
Tax avoidance
Crime
Human rights
Overpopulation
Sexual rights
to name a few. All need addressing and I believe can only be done through a global approach.
 
opher goodwin Added Jul 9, 2018 - 1:49pm
Child - silly twat. You are an embarrassment. You are out of your depth and have nothing worth listening too. Fuck off you silly boy. You are deluded and nothing seems to penetrate your ignorant mind.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 2:02pm
I'm going to take you down on my next post. 
 
It's going to be a world class drubbing.  I don't think you will care.  You have the hide of a rhinoceros. 
 
I'm going to post your 'accomplishments' and then show why you are a pretentious know nothing who no one should listen to.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 2:03pm
Four of you liberals have done posts on me, and it hasn't harmed me a bit.  I haven't done a single one on any of you individually.  But, I think it will be profitable to take the top liberal, you, and destroy you for all your fellow liberal munchkins to learn from.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 2:22pm
Poor Badlose, trying to diagnose me with his psychobabble. LOL.
TexasLynn Added Jul 9, 2018 - 2:56pm
I don't necessarily disagree with everything you've written here Opher, but as usual you are overall... scary as hell.
 
I would agree that a nation fits your general definition, but you try to limit it to just that so that it better fits your point and purpose... thus you dismissed out of hand the very valid point that Kristen was trying to make.
 
A nation is also a collection of people with a common set of ideals and goals... thus creating governments and nations to help reach and protect those goals.  The protection and promotion of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" can define a nation as can "to each according to his need, from each according to his ability".
 
You also repeat that nations are "artificial", as in they are "created by people".  I thought something "created by people" was the very definition of "artificial".  Artificial doesn't equal bad or evil, which seems to be how your using this word in justifying the elimination of nations. 
 
Men created artificial wings so they can fly and artificial flippers to help him swim; so... since these things are "artificial" they should be done away with?
 
Why not just say, you don't like borders and nations because you think they impeded where you want to world to go.  Why try to justify they need to be done away with by labeling them as "artificial".  It takes away from your argument... like labeling all things you don't like fascist.
 
I do agree that the ideals and cultures of nations change over time; but fail to see how that's necessarily a bad thing justifying the elimination of nations.  I also fail to see how nations changing to better reflect culture, ideals, and goals is a bad thing.  When nations find themselves in agreement they can form alliances (NATO) or new nations (Texas joining the Union).  In that same vein, I think it best when peoples find their culture, ideals and goals have diverged they agree to split into new nations.
 
I will give you this... there should be no borders or nations WHEN all of humanity is of one mind concerning all things... some of them being; Environmental issues, Pollution, Mass extinctions, Mass migration, Poverty, War, Terrorism, Religion, Multinationals, Taxes, Crime, Human rights, Overpopulation, Sexual rights... (and many more).  BUT the elimination of borders and nations should not come one day sooner than that day of universal enlightenment.  Like most high minded leftist ideals, this too is a fantasy, but at least theoretically I'll agree.
 
But YOU... want to put the cart before the horse.  YOU want to force one mind concerning all these things by forcing borders and nations to go away.   As if that would work (another high minded leftist fantasy). Others have tried this approach (see below) ... you would have us follow that same path, again.
 
Your real argument in this post is... "I want glottalization (preferably secular, global, socialism) and these things called borders and nations are an impediment to that... so they need to go." 
 
I shudder to think of other perceived impediments and what you would be willing to do to them to pave the way for global utopia.  Stalin and Hitler were very much against these arbitrary things called borders (that define nations) as well.
 
Heaven help us from those who want to help us come together to solve problems. Nations and peoples who impeded such progress becomes problems to be solved.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 3:36pm
Agree, Texas.  God bless Texas:).  I'm from the People's Republic of California, so allow me to take a dig at your conservative bastion over there.
 
A proud Texan farmer goes to Australia for a vacation. While there, he meets Aussie farmer and the two start talking. The Aussie shows the Texan his big wheat field and the Texan says, "Oh! We have wheat fields that are at least twice as large as yours".

Then they walk around the ranch a little, and the Aussie shows off his herd of cattle. The Texan immediately says, "We have longhorns that are at least twice as large as your cows".

At this point, the conversation had almost ground to a halt when the Texan suddently saw a herd of kangaroos hopping through the field. He asks, "Hey, what are those"?

The Aussie replies with an incredulous look, "Don't you have any grasshoppers in Texas"?
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 3:42pm
 
BTW, Badlose, don't take it personal.  I'll destroy all your liberal heroes in a debate too.  You just follow moral and intellectual midgets, that's all. 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 3:42pm
Watching you stutter, stumble, stammer, and use profanity is a disgraceful exhibit of what kinds of charlatans the U.K. and America have as teachers.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 3:48pm
 
Badlose, A wise man has something to say, a fool has to say something. 
 
Of course, you believe you are the former, but history and wise people know you are the latter.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jul 9, 2018 - 3:52pm
"The whole idea of nations has no real substance."
 
Then, please suggest some alternative and show us who would make decisions!
 
Remember Marx's notion of the Golden Age where no government was necessary! We should start there. 
TexasLynn Added Jul 9, 2018 - 3:54pm
Ryan (and others with humor)... :)
 
That same Aussie came to Texas to visit his Texan farmer buddy.
 
They were supposed to meet at the hotel restaurant and the Texan was a bit late.  The Aussie decided to order a beer. 
 
Soon an ice-cold gallon mug of beer was placed in front of him. He asked, "What is this..." to which the waitress replied, "Your beer," and seeing his confusion added, "Everything is bigger in Texas."
 
The Texan was still late and the Aussie hadn't eaten since arriving so he went ahead and ordered a small steak.  Soon a hot juicy rib-eye arrived with the sides hanging and dripping over the plate along with a loaf of fresh bread.  The Aussie expression gave him away and the waitress again explained "Everything is bigger in Texas". :)
 
After a while the Aussie had been working on the steak and the beer had been working on the Aussie so he asked the waitress "Where is the restroom".
 
"Down that hall and to the left." she instructed.
 
So, the Aussie stumbled down the hall and took a right... and fell into the hotel swimming pool.
 
Every time he came up for air, he yelled... "Don't flush it!  Don't flush it!"
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 3:57pm
LOL, that's pretty good, Texas.
 
Reminds me of another feller from Texas.
 
An Englishman, Frenchman, Mexican, and Texan were flying across country on a small plane when the pilot comes on the loud speaker and says,
"We're having mechanical problems and the only way we can make it to the next airport is for 3 of you to open the door and jump, at least one of you can survive"
The four open the door and look out below.
The Englishman takes a deep breath and hollers "God Save The Queen" and jumps.
The Frenchman gets really inspired and hollers "Viva La France" and he also jumps.
This really pumps up the Texan so he hollers "Remember the Alamo" and he grabs the Mexican and throws him out of the plane.


 
 
Neil Lock Added Jul 9, 2018 - 4:02pm
For what it's worth - and I throw this into an already troubled thread - I think Opher is roughly right in his diagnosis, and completely 180 degrees wrong in his solution.
 
The fact that Kristen and Opher can give such different definitions of a simple world like "nation" - each backed up by references - is a symptom of the problem. Dictionaries are political weapons... aren't they? (Let's not even think about encyclopaedias...)
 
Opher says: The system of nation states has failed. (I agree). Therefore the solution is a world government. (I totally disagree). I've already sketched out the basics of my solution, in a dozen or so articles on this very site, so I won't say more about that today.
 
Lynn, thank you for your common sense contribution. Much needed on this thread, where Mr. Messano seems to have been able to rile even friend Stone-Eater into losing his cool.
 
If I may paraphrase what I see as Opher's error here, it is what he is putting forward is equivalent to the green catchphrase: "Think globally, act locally." Whereas for me the way forward would better be: "Think individually, act locally, build globally."
 
Oh... and Lynn, your second contribution was even better.
Neil Lock Added Jul 9, 2018 - 4:09pm
...and, if you like shaggy dog stories, I posted one here just yesterday. A baseball story. Trying to be friendly with our Yankee brethren! (Even Michael B.)
 
But apart from TBH's one word, only Brits have commented so far. Come on, my American friends! Come over and show us how much better you understand your own culture than we do!
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 4:11pm
You can't improve the unimprovable, Neil.  Ignoring the past only leads to future failure.  Only societies where ALL citizens are educated and know the LAW thrive economically and have liberty.  That is something you moderate conservatives and liberals never comprehend.
TexasLynn Added Jul 9, 2018 - 4:29pm
Ryan, not a bad one... I liked it; but just you wait for the howls of racism. :) The left has no sense of humor.
 
I remember years ago a cartoon in a newspaper with a man standing in a bookstore facing a woman behind the counter.  The caption read "Sir... this is a feminist book store.  There is no... humor section."
 
So, add misogyny to your sins if you find that hilarious.
 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 
Neil >> For what it's worth - and I throw this into an already troubled thread
 
I think you and I are largely in agreement (minor nuances as usual)... Things are a mess throughout the world in all nations (and with this thread, and with WB).  Nations are not to blame, what hey have in common is to blame... "people".
 
So, doesn't that simply mean, people are a mess... and if so when were we ever not a mess... and if so why would we ever think we have or ever will evolve beyond being a mess?
 
It is my opinion that history has proven beyond any doubt that the answer (whatever the question/issue) is NEVER bigger and more comprehensive overreaching government.  The results of which is always disastrous.
 
Opher simply thinks, this next time... it will work if only the right (meaning enlightened, woke, leftist) people are in charge.  He thinks we've reached a point in our social evolution to make that ever dreampt-of utopia a reality.  I, think there is no such thing as human evolution/progression of this manner (morally, ethically, socially); thus the continuous mess.
 
Neil >> Oh... and Lynn, your second contribution was even better.
 
Look, we Texans may be a little full of ourselves (though we can't hold a candle to the British); and who can blame us.  We ARE from Texas.  But our arrogance has always been a little tongue in cheek.  We don't take ourselves too seriously.
 
I've posted this joke before... but I'll post it again.
 
What are the most common last three words of the average Texan?  "... and watch this."
 
What are the most common last six words of the average Texan? "Hold my beer... and watch this."
Doug Plumb Added Jul 9, 2018 - 4:41pm
Do you get a cheque directly from the world organization of drugs, kiddie and influence peddling when you write this crap?
Why don't you try reading a bit instead of writing so much?
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 4:42pm
A couple of Italians in Texas get pulled over for speeding. When the trooper approaches the car, the driver says 'What's the problem, sir?'.
The trooper takes out his machined aluminum flashlight and whacks the kid across the head saying 'You don't speak to a state trooper unless you're spoken to'.
The trooper writes out the citation and gives it to the driver who responds 'Thanks a lot'.
The trooper again gives the kid a dose of the flashlight and says 'When you address a state trooper, you finish your sentence with the word sir'.
He then walks over to the passenger side and whacks the other kid with the flashlight.The kid says 'What was that for, sir?'
The trooper says 'I was just fulfilling your wish.
Y'all wouldn't have gotten 100 yards down this road before you'd have said to your friend, "I wish he'd have hit me with that flashlight", so I fulfilled your wish.'
 
That's a good point, Texas, so, since I'm Italian, I'll have to be fair about it.
Doug Plumb Added Jul 9, 2018 - 4:44pm
Has any Liberal, anywhere, ever read a book on political science or law?
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 4:50pm
Good question, Doug, not one of them on here has read five biographies of America's Founders, yet they have the most criticism for them. 
Leroy Added Jul 9, 2018 - 5:30pm
"I don't know where you got that idea from. Nations have existed on this planet for thousands of years."
 
I agree that the concept of nations has been around for a while.  That is why I specifically mentioned borders and nations.  You really can't talk about the nations of Italy or Poland or Turkey in the past without putting them is some sort of context.  Post-WWII, the borders are more solid.  Because we do have international organizations, we have an authority to which to appeal if there are boundary disputes.  Just image all the border disputes there would be if we didn't have fences.  Prior to moving into my current house, the neighbors didn't know where the boundaries were and encroached upon it.  I had to mark the boundaries.  At my previous residence, neighbors on both sides tried to encroach by putting up structures over the boundary.  Same with another piece of land I used to own.  It was costly for me to fix the problem caused by this neighbor.  If there was no identifiable border, neighbors would fight all the time.  Imagine this on an international scale.  War is the way to settle it.
 
The history of Europe, as well as the US, is the history of warfare.  Nations were determined by might and marriages.  That is no longer the case and we live in relative peace.  The erasure of borders would put us back into the dark ages.  Dream on.
TexasLynn Added Jul 9, 2018 - 5:45pm
Note that Opher, and most of the left, but particularly Opher, looks at EVERY issue from a height of about 50,000 feet.  He NEVER gets any closer than that as far as details, implementation, and consequences.  When challenged to provide anything beyond a high-level argument, he either ignores the point or bloviates.
 
He wants something, sees something else in the way, labels the obstruction as bad (artificial, fascist, racist or whatever) then demands that it be done away with; and anyone not agreeing is labeled bad (artificial, fascist, racist or whatever).
 
Lather, rinse, repeat...
opher goodwin Added Jul 9, 2018 - 6:13pm
Hi Tex - thanks for your comments. Yes it is an ideal and we are a long way short of achieving it any day soon. I live in hope that people will grow. There are many things that are creating huge problems because nations have no jurisdiction over dealing with them. Until we become more global thinking they will never get solved. I live for the day.
opher goodwin Added Jul 9, 2018 - 6:15pm
BTW Tex - yes I do look at the overview on things of this nature. As we are still so far short there is no need to look at detail. It is something to work towards.
There are good and bad people everywhere in the world. No nation has a monopoly on goodness. They all have their silly twerps and geniuses, their compassionate and bullies. People are people. The artificial divisions of nations will break down with time.
opher goodwin Added Jul 9, 2018 - 6:16pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN9dzY-HZRc
Here's the child having a tantrum and being kicked out. Twerp.
opher goodwin Added Jul 9, 2018 - 6:17pm
rycK - I would suggest that a few suitable modifications of a body such as the UN with global jurisdiction, democracy and accountability might be a good starting point.
opher goodwin Added Jul 9, 2018 - 6:19pm
Neil - thanks for that - at least you are partway there.
opher goodwin Added Jul 9, 2018 - 6:20pm
Doug - I read plenty thanks. Why don't you try thinking for once instead of reciting?
opher goodwin Added Jul 9, 2018 - 6:23pm
Leroy - yes there were boundaries, wars, disputes and conflict. It was all very fluid and still is. I'm glad you agree that it was because of global institutions that it became more stable. I agree. I want more of them.
opher goodwin Added Jul 9, 2018 - 6:24pm
Child - I've stopped responding to you. Too unintelligent and childish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN9dzY-HZRc
Doug Plumb Added Jul 9, 2018 - 6:26pm
Opher, do you ever wonder if you were born, then remanufactered? Its like you have a Rothschild dildo in your mouth whenever you write on here.
William Stockton Added Jul 9, 2018 - 7:11pm
Nations have created conflict.
 
Let's unpack that.  These types of claims are true on its face to an unsophisticated thinking style which works for political activism but fails with any cursory analysis.
 
Ideas create conflict.  Societies form around cohesive and somewhat homogenous ideologies (ideas).  This is why we have nations.  When ideas are in conflict to the extent to which mortal combat would be the last remaining option for resolution, this is the reason for wars.
Geographical labels don't mean anything (as you correctly stated), other than to label groups of people, geographically, based on a common subset of core ideals.
 
In your borderless world with everyone mixing together, you would require that everyone maintain the same core ideas or worse -- enforced ideas to keep people from killing each other on any scale.
That Orwellian enforcement looks a lot like war, just on a smaller scale but would certainly kill billions as has shown from the past (USSR).
 
Nice piece of fiction, Opher.  Keep up the good work!
A. Jones Added Jul 9, 2018 - 8:21pm
Firstly you aren't bright enough - your intellect is shit. 
 
Pot-Kettle-Black.
Atom Rider Added Jul 9, 2018 - 8:30pm
Opher, property lines are fictitious creation, your house is now on my property, I'm evicting you.
TexasLynn Added Jul 9, 2018 - 8:41pm
Opher >> BTW Tex - yes I do look at the overview on things of this nature.
 
Not that I think you missed this, but to be clear, Opher... I didn't say you looked at "overviews" of things of this nature OR even some things of some natures.
 
"Opher, looks at EVERY issue from a height of about 50,000 feet."-- TexasLynn
 
And NEVER looks at "details, implementation, and consequences".
 
And as your reply proves "either ignores the point or bloviates".  I see you chose to ignore on this occasion. :)
 
LMAO... you’re so good at obfuscation, even I question if you're aware of it.  You're the kind of guy that pisses on everybody's legs, talking about rain and everybody questions if you really think it's raining. :)
Ryan Messano Added Jul 9, 2018 - 8:44pm
 
Like I said, Badlose, when the big guns open up, you are toast.  I give you a week more on WB.
James E. Unekis Added Jul 9, 2018 - 9:05pm
Opher, Tex - I do think that we will end up with a one world government within the foreseeable future.
 
However, as Tex pointed out:  there should be no borders or nations WHEN all of humanity is of one mind concerning all things... some of them being; Environmental issues, Pollution, Mass extinctions, Mass migration, Poverty, War, Terrorism, Religion, Multinationals, Taxes, Crime, Human rights, Overpopulation, Sexual rights... (and many more).  BUT the elimination of borders and nations should not come one day sooner than that day of universal enlightenment.
 
We are never going to reach that day of enlightenment so it would take force to achieve.  The left has been trying to "enlighten" people through PC shaming and even hate speech laws only to receive a pushback from those who don't want their speech controlled.  The left, in turn, is increasingly adopting violence and, as Mad Max has recently called for, harassment.  There is simply too much diversity in the world to reach consensus and the level of force needed is too great for even a group of nations to attempt.  Even if it were achieved half of the world's population would be in constant sabotage mode.
 
So if universal "enlightenment" is a distant pipe dream, and force would require a world war you might wonder how I think the world governance will be achieved?  I honestly think it will take a massive, world-wide catastrophe, there being many to choose from.   An economic collapse seems most likely to me but nuclear war, a large asteroid hit, an unprecedented pandemic, an unrivaled volcanic event, world-wide crop failures, coordinated EMP attacks might be some of the myriad possibilities.  Anything that throws the entire world into massive chaos, starvation and desperate need would allow a charismatic "strong man" to emerge.  People will follow anyone that they believe will stop the madness.  A strong man's persuasions are amplified in crisis and urgency precludes debate favoring immediate adoption.
 
In this situation the leader might assume ultimate authority. and there is no reason to assume that he or she would be benevolent in nature or in practice
 
I am a Christian and the bible clearly explains that the world will ultimately be controlled by a single government in support of a single supreme ruler.  So I have been watching this march towards globalization since 1976.  Much of the technology and infrastructure to allow for world control emerged much faster than I thought possible.  If you are not Christian just ignore this paragraph as it is in no way the core of my argument.  
 
The stage is being set and I think that your will have your wish; perhaps in our lifetime.  I anticipate promises of Utopia but fear the reality will be much, much darker.
James E. Unekis Added Jul 9, 2018 - 9:27pm
Ryan,
I do find you courageous to share your thoughts on things like the problems of pornogrphy, marriage, the wisdom of the founding fathers and abortion. 
 
You write well enough, have read enough and are articulate yourself well enough to defend your points without taking the low road.
 
We all get frustrated and, from time to time, make the attack personal or resort to name calling.  Im sure your frustration levels here are higher than most because you have the courage to defend unpopular views.
 
But I'm afraid that we all lose credibility when we swerve off topic.  You'd do better, in my opinion, if you returned to the old Ryan.  I don't think it will help you change minds if you become the Jeff Michka of the right.
 
I say this without malice and as a gentle advise.  Still, you are a fully grown man and I will continue to read what you post regardless.
Bill H. Added Jul 9, 2018 - 10:54pm
 
Messano-
You are psycho and going over the deep end.
Doug Plumb Added Jul 9, 2018 - 11:08pm
We are not children on here. Lets not be pussies. If you have a problem with someone insulting you on here, see a doctor, get yourself a box of kleenex, jump off a building, go play in the traffic. Just don't complain about your fucking feelings because what we are talking about is more important than your feelings.
Doug Plumb Added Jul 9, 2018 - 11:11pm
re "Let's unpack that.  These types of claims are true on its face to an unsophisticated thinking style which works for political activism but fails with any cursory analysis."
 
Exactly, also read Plato's Laws. Stuff they don't teach in the dumbed down socialistic schools for retards. The Nationalist model is a very good one as far as I can see, if anything, some countries are too big. Mixing religions is like mixing gas with matches - stupid - thats why Judaism always strives to mix and to confuse everyone, including their own - especially their own. "Their father is the devil" (paraphrased- said in more than one place in the Book)
 
Doug Plumb Added Jul 9, 2018 - 11:15pm
re "Doug - I read plenty thanks. Why don't you try thinking for once instead of reciting?  "
 
Because I depend on the ideas of others. I recognize that the great thinkers of the past are a lot better at this than me. So I read and think and pick what I think are the best of their ideas. When I fully understand all of their ideas, and have time to digest them all, maybe then I will come up with a good idea on my own. But there are too many people who think their ideas are as good as the great thinkers. We live in a narcissistic age and Lefties are especially the narcissistic fools.
Kurt Bresler Added Jul 9, 2018 - 11:31pm
>>>>" Competition between these artificial groupings causes wars, poverty and stops us solving the huge environmental problems, crime, terrorism and religious fanaticism that are assailing us"
 
THIS IS TOTAL NONSENSE,   The Truth is that people will always create groups, call them artificial groups if you wish, but nothing will be done without groups.
   
One thing you did mention was Nations(Groups) change and that is more of a reality in this fast pace world than ever before as the new generation no longer respects the ways and wishes of the old gen.   
 
Soon The EU may very well be run by Muslims, and who cares, maybe Christians who would like to keep serving their own faith.
 
The Friendship the US has had in the past with other NATO Countries is different now that most have joined together in their own European Union and should share the biggest part of their own defense.   
How long will France be able to fight off it's Muslim invasion?
It is like a Cancer which gets going and then there is no way to stop it , like inner city gangsters taking over and lawlessness increases.
And what of Germany and other Countries who have basically been benevolently invaded by Muslims wow, no one had to swear allegiance to anything new to get welcomed in to those countries, now it is too late, and they can only wait for the destruction of everything Europe once was.
Yes things are changing and the US under Trump is waking up from it's slumber.
Nevertheless,  To get anything done you mentioned whether fight Global warming or Global Famine new groups will be formed under those auspices .. we are the warming group,  we are the famine group etc etc   It is not artificial grouping, it is cause grouping,  and just like such groups Trump has attempted to rally the country by using things which America once held as their common thought which brought about the greater oneness.  The pledge of Allegiance, The Flag, The English Language.  It is not divisive it is decisive to facilitate the greater organizations' abilities to fight off the greater enemies which could be Socialism or Communism which eventually brings a decline in prosperity and a merging into lethargy.  
 
 
 
Stone-Eater Added Jul 9, 2018 - 11:43pm
Oph
 
Be careful. Ryboy is allowing you one more week on WB. Probably he has a mandate for it by Trump. :))
 
What arrogance. Unbelievable.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 9, 2018 - 11:45pm
BTW please mark any links so they can be accessed directly.
Kurt Bresler Added Jul 10, 2018 - 1:19am
Doug>>>"But there are too many people who think their ideas are as good as the great thinkers. We live in a narcissistic age and Lefties are especially the narcissistic fools."
Ain't that the Truth !
Ryan Messano Added Jul 10, 2018 - 2:06am
Doug, one of the most brilliant comments I have ever read on WB.  
 
“Because I depend on the ideas of others. I recognize that the great thinkers of the past are a lot better at this than me. So I read and think and pick what I think are the best of their ideas. When I fully understand all of their ideas, and have time to digest them all, maybe then I will come up with a good idea on my own. But there are too many people who think their ideas are as good as the great thinkers. We live in a narcissistic age and Lefties are especially the narcissistic fools.”
Ryan Messano Added Jul 10, 2018 - 2:07am
Ah, I see Kurt agrees with the sentiment.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 3:39am
William - I do not think we would have quite the borderless world you refer to. We would start with a global body that would have jurisdiction to deal with those global issues. There would be a checkerboard of regional groups that would reflect that local psychology to which you refer.
At heart this is recognised as an inevitable process. I do not think I've ever read a Sci-fi book which has anything else.
No, it won't happen soon. It will evolve over time. I merely point out the great need for it to happen.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 3:43am
Doug - yes you are right. We are all impressed by the thoughts of those intellectual giants. But if everyone took your position we'd never have another original thought or another of those giants. Only by taking their lead and building on it can we progress. If we followed your lead and merely recited we'd be moribund as a society, stuck in the past - much like Islam.
By all means be stimulated by the geniuses of the past. But I would suggest that rather than recite their words you attempt to understand them, build on them and apply that to the present. We can't live in the past.
Seems to me that a debating site is about stimulating minds and argument - not reciting.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 3:44am
Atom - of course they are. Only through the agreed fiction of law do we have ownership.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 3:49am
James - it might come about through a huge catastrophe or even first meeting with an alien culture? But I think it is more likely through an increasing need. The global problems require universal laws and enforcement. I think the UN will probably evolve. It will be a slow creep. That is a bit worrying as it isn't either democratic or accountable. Those are the big stumbling blocks. As people rightly point out the big concerns are with people gaining absolute power and corruption. 
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 3:51am
Bill - the evidence from the video of him losing it and being chucked out is sufficient to demonstrate his instability and limitations.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 4:09am
Kurt - of course people form into groups. That is because we are tribal. We probably always will do. That is why we will need a global body overseeing universal problems coupled with regional assemblies to deal with local issues. You rightly point out that we form groups. We do and will continue. 
You also accept that these groups change over time.
In terms of your assertions about the EU being swamped by Islam that is a total fabrication of Right-wing hysteria.
It is a silly Islamophobic lie.
I despise Islam and its intolerance but I'm not at all concerned with the prospect of the 6.3% of Muslims in Britain ever becoming a majority and imposing Sharia law. In terms of the EU the picture is the same. the 5% of Muslims are not likely to be taking over any time soon.
Here's the real picture without all the hard-right hysteria:  http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/11/29/5-facts-about-the-muslim-population-in-europe/
As you can see Germany and Sweden with 8% are the highest but I don't think the 92% are going to be worried about sharia law any time soon.
Perhaps the USA is more under threat of becoming a catholic country due to its 18% Hispanics (3 times higher than the Muslims over here and with a very high fertility rate) or a black nation with its 12% of blacks.
In reality of course the populations will continue to interbreed and integrate to become a more uniform population in time.
That integration is the process that we need to work on. It is not the number but the speed of immigration that has caused the problem.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 4:13am
Stone - yes I've only got a week left!! What a shame!! Right when I'm enjoying myself too.
But the silly child will drive me off - just like he drove the whole board off in that civic meeting.
What an arrogant little twerp.
Kristen Foley Added Jul 10, 2018 - 6:31am
The Oxford dictionary uses the word “common” not “shared.”  It uses the word because the people living within a nation can have different ethnicities, languages and descents, however by virtue of the fact they live within a nation, they also have things in common. In the case if America, the great melting pot and a relatively new nation, we have much less in common with our fellow inhabitants than people from most other nations.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 6:43am
Kristen - that is a good point. America seeks to actively mould those people into a nation and common shared aims through all those flags, pledges, anthems and such. I think that was why those Football Players had such an impact. It was almost opting out of that common ground.
Doug Plumb Added Jul 10, 2018 - 8:38am
re "Only by taking their lead and building on it can we progress. If we followed your lead and merely recited we'd be moribund as a society, stuck in the past - much like Islam.
By all means be stimulated by the geniuses of the past. But I would suggest that rather than recite their words you attempt to understand them, build on them and apply that to the present. "
 
I've proven, not stated an opinion, that Marxism cannot work. Every bit of empirical evidence shows us that its being pushed by lunatics. Every bit of historical evidence shows that Marxism results in millions of deaths and a collapsed economy. Its being pushed by the descendents of the lunatics that created Israhell and the Bolshevik Revolution.
If you are going to do a science, political science or a physical science, its best to learn about that science so that you can identify what cannot work. That is what science is - knowing what cannot work and why - finding that out is called "The Scientific Method".
Politics is the science of law making. Law is a science. The first time the word was applied was by the Romans and it was applied to law making.
Take a look at the flat-earthers, not one of them actually knows anything about physics and therefore could not know that the earth is round for the same reason that a drop of water is round.
You are a political flat earther, a cerebral narcissist, because you, like all Lefties, and some Righties, do not believe you have to learn this science before you start forming opinions on it.
Everything wrong with the West has happened as a result of these lunatics of which I speak trying to disembowel the existing system through education, media and putting Jewish communists in positions of power, and funding the country with private Jewish banks who have been fighting wars worldwide to spread communism.
Even the Christian Zionists know all that, they just go along with it because (?????).
 
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 8:56am
Doug - that is exactly what I mean. You simply recite information you have taken from right-wing sites.
What might be a better way to use knowledge is to figure out a way that Democratic Socialism can be made to work successfully for everyone. Excessive capitalism with all its inequality, exploitation, wars, recessions, mass migrations and environmental destruction is only working for a small elite.
A discussion would be nice.
Atom Rider Added Jul 10, 2018 - 9:06am
Opher, speak for yourself, I never agreed to anything. I'm taking what's yours because you're socialist, so what's yours is mine. Or do you lack the convictions of your beliefs.
Doug Plumb Added Jul 10, 2018 - 9:19am
@Kristen re " It uses the word because the people living within a nation can have different ethnicities, languages and descents, however by virtue of the fact they live within a nation, they also have things in common."
 
All these nations that have these qualities are falling apart and being destroyed from the inside. It has never worked in the past and the West has been wise enough not to let Islamics and other subversives inside their borders. The founding fathers had a debate about whether or not to let Jews in. Franklin said no, that they would destroy the country, as they always do - its why they always get kicked out of countries, its why they are "persecuted" so much. Its what they are doing today. The Bolsheviks were funded b y Wall St.
There is no Italian Mafia or Russian Mafia, its all a Jewish Mafia. They are the ones behind pornography, drugs, human slavery, black slavery and white slavery. White slavery was legal in Israhell up until 2006. Jewish Hollywood depicts the Christian as behind these evils, the Frankfurt school blames Christian philosophy for these evils and argues for statutory rule rather than rule by reason in The Eclipse Of Reason.
They have license to practice everything evil to speed the coming of their Messiah, who will tell them to adopt Noahide law, which requires all Christians to be killed.
Most people that casually call themselves atheists are actually Christians because they believe in the Golden Rule. The Golden Rule is central to Christianity and no other religion. It threatens Jewish supremacy. The two cannot co-exist.
You cannot see anything until you see the Chosen People, the Master Race, the people behind Talpiot, the people who print our money, and our future rulers.
Doug Plumb Added Jul 10, 2018 - 9:22am
re "You simply recite information you have taken from right-wing sites."
 
I do not go to right wing web sites. I keep on telling people that I actually read real books, of the greatest thinkers in law and political science. Nothing I have ever said comes from a web site. I am smarter than a lot of people on here wrt this stuff, a lot smarter, because I have taken the time to read and study. Its stupid just to say "you got that off the internet" just because I destroyed your argument with logic. Its getting old, and everyone does it on here.
Doug Plumb Added Jul 10, 2018 - 9:24am
re "Excessive capitalism with all its inequality, exploitation, wars, recessions, mass migrations and environmental destruction is only working for a small elite."
 
Pure capitalism is as rotten as pure communism. Its why Hitker adopted National Socialism, a system that works and threatens the spread of a world commie government. That is why they have programmed you to have a pit in your stomach whenever you hear the word "nationalism". Its a pavlovian response.
Doug Plumb Added Jul 10, 2018 - 9:32am
Thanks for your compliment Ryan, I read your stuff too.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jul 10, 2018 - 10:08am
Opher
 
"Doug - that is exactly what I mean. You simply recite information you have taken from right-wing sites."
 
I see the same trend in your posts with respect of socialism. 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jul 10, 2018 - 10:15am
O[pher
 
"What might be a better way to use knowledge is to figure out a way that Democratic Socialism can be made to work successfully for everyone"
 
Read Lenin...............he had all the answers. 
Doug Plumb Added Jul 10, 2018 - 10:38am
re ""Doug - that is exactly what I mean. You simply recite information you have taken from right-wing sites."
 
Thats just flat out not true. Everything I write here is off-the-cuff. I read posts, think about them and write. I do not read off the web except from Henry Makow and maybe another essay once a week. Other than that, its books more than 100 years old, now Bentham.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 10:57am
Atom - you obviously do not understand socialism one little bit. A fairer distribution is not sharing everything. You need to look up what socialism is.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 10:59am
Doug - what a silly tirade about Jews. You really believe that there is no Sicilian mafia? That's just sheer, undiluted antisemitism. You should be ashamed.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 11:00am
rycK - really. I do not recite anything. My posts come out of my head and my beliefs thanks.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 11:00am
rycK - no he didn't.
Luther Wu Added Jul 10, 2018 - 11:16am
opher sez-
"Atom - you obviously do not understand socialism one little bit. A fairer distribution is not sharing everything. You need to look up what socialism is."
---
I'm quite certain that Atom understands full well what socialism is all about.
------
"The goal of Socialism is Communism". - Vladimir Lenin 
------

You buck against Atom's assertion that by your own tenets, he has right to claim your property, by force.

Your response is that only the government can and should,  take your property by force, that only the government can and should decide what one needs and another must deliver.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 11:20am
Luther - I reckon his understanding is on a par with yours - merely right-wing propaganda.
When  we had a socialist government was in place I didn't lose my property thanks.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 11:21am
Doug -  I am smarter than a lot of people on here wrt this stuff, a lot smarter, because I have taken the time to read and study
Really??
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 11:31am
Doug - I think we've all done an inordinate amount of reading and studying. That doesn't automatically make you smart though, I'm afraid.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 11:32am
Luther - nobody is taking my property by force - socialist or otherwise. We are all covered by the law of the land. You are talking nonsense.
Atom Rider Added Jul 10, 2018 - 11:58am
opher, your logic is twisted. You proclaim boundaries and nations are fictitious creations. Yet support becoming a slave to the state, a fictitious creation, a nation. Socialism demands the diminished capacity of the individual. A subject of the crown, a citizen of the state, all fictitious entities. I am, the state is not, but a figment of the imagination. You use the words, 'rules we all agree to', again, leave me out of it, I'm not a we, neither are you, and I don't agree to that contract. This is America jack, where the state is the servant of the people, not vice versa. You want to take things back to the dark ages. So kneel and bow before your false god, some imagined authority you've just handed all the power to. Probably wise in your case, you may not have the mental capacity to decide your own way in life.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 10, 2018 - 12:06pm
Socialism demands the diminished capacity of the individual.
 
No. It demands working TOGETHER. No more, no less. As were the old Indian tribes and Asian/African cultures. 
 
You're US-American, no ? So take the Amish people, leave out their negligence for modern equipment and religion and you get - socialism. A society where everybody works for everyone and is led by elders who know LIFE.
 
Not money and fame and power, but knowledge and wisdom.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jul 10, 2018 - 12:07pm
Opher
 
"rycK - really. I do not recite anything. My posts come out of my head and my beliefs thanks."
 
Could you allow others to do the same?
 
I wonder.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 10, 2018 - 12:12pm
BTW Atom
 
I'm no good at handicrafts, never was. But I'm good in writing, music, IT and organizing, for example. Everybody has his talents, and the thing is to COMBINE it to a common good. This has nothing to do with "individualism being killed or being suppressed into a totalitarian state".
 
Steve Jobs sold his iShit as "if you have one you're individual". My ass LOL
Stone-Eater Added Jul 10, 2018 - 12:18pm
Isn't it funny that US people are the most afraid to live in a police/government controlled state while they already live in one ? I simply hope that the rest of the world will never get SWAT teams or other diseases which make life feeling under a threat when you don't carry a bible under your arm..
 
*Irony off*
Atom Rider Added Jul 10, 2018 - 12:21pm
Opher, the state will decide your beliefs, remember. So your words betray you. You ask for people to let others believe what they want, where's the communion in that? Where's the teamwork? Where's the hive mind? You want your individuality, but demand others conform to the groupthink. Or, at least, the economics of it. Your work is our profit, is that it? As a socialist, you probably believe in the UN. Like, the declaration of human rights and ICCPRs. But if you were to actually read the ICCPRs, you would see that taxes are voluntary. That no state, that signs the treaty, may force taxation of any kind, upon a person. Socialism, poof.
Atom Rider Added Jul 10, 2018 - 12:24pm
Right stone eater, "demands working together", fuck that. I decline, you do it. It's called freedom jack.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 10, 2018 - 12:27pm
the state will decide your beliefs
 
Sorry to be intervening.
 
In the US it's the 6 private media corporations who do that. Not the state. The same happens in Europe. The state is the prolonged arm of the economy. THEY have the say.
 
https://www.morriscreative.com/6-corporations-control-90-of-the-media-in-america/
 
And....they CONTROL what you call "state". Why ? Because they have the financial power to do it. Did you ever think about that Trump would have become prez without the media ? Same counts for Clinton, Bush etc.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 12:33pm
Atom - me thinks you are living in an unreality. You, like me, are subject to the laws of the land. Just try doing something against the law and see if your argument holds up in court when they haul your arse in. You do not have complete freedom. You might not like it or agree with it but you are still subject to it.
In a democracy the people vote in representatives but they don't really have much say in those laws.
You're not free. That is an illusion.
If the State was a socialist one your freedoms would not alter. They might even become greater.
Yes, nations, states, kings, money - they are all fictions. They only exist because people believe in them. That doesn't stop them functioning as if they are real. I don't think you've understood it at all. Try reading Noah Harari. He explains it well.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 12:35pm
Stone - I think you're wasting your breath. Americans can't understand socialism. They have this notion that they are free and socialism is slavery. They are deluded.
Atom Rider Added Jul 10, 2018 - 12:35pm
stone eater, I wouldn't know, I haven't watched tv in 20 years. I even use adblocker, so I'm not spoon fed consumerism. The media controls nothing except the minds of stupid people. And it looks like the media has their hands full trying to control Trump. They try, but fail. The media is partly deep state anyway. Undercover feds posing as journalists. Tell you what, if you find a news story, that isn't 100% opinion,  you let me know, and I'll show you what you're missing about mind control.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 12:38pm
rycK - I'd be happy if they did. Every time I put up a post on here I get a bunch of Americans reciting the misinformation they've gleaned off right-wing websites. It's garbage.
I'd much prefer people to think about the issues for themselves and enter into an intelligent debate without repeating garbage. We don't have to agree - just discuss and reason.
You never know - we might all learn?
Luther Wu Added Jul 10, 2018 - 12:38pm
opher said,
"Luther - I reckon his understanding is on a par with yours - merely right-wing propaganda.
When  we had a socialist government was in place I didn't lose my property thanks."
---
A direct quote from Lenin is Right Wing propaganda?
 
Your response is comprised of multiple logical fallacies and a personal anecdote.
---
opher,
"Luther - nobody is taking my property by force - socialist or otherwise. We are all covered by the law of the land. You are talking nonsense. "
---
Do tell me how you avoid taxes. That could be a handy trick.
Men with guns assure me that they will decide if I pay taxes, or not.
Your advocacy of socialist policies is a call for more of those men, with more rationale to show up and force me into their mold.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 12:41pm
Stone - it always amazes me this concept of freedom that Americans have when in actual fact it is the most repressive conservative place I've ever been too. If you are different or express any unorthodox view you are likely to get your head pounded - and that is seen as freedom.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 10, 2018 - 12:41pm
Atom
 
Good one. I'm watching TV for sleep, otherwise I'm into Internet channels from Germany, Russia, the UK or France for news. And tell you what: I'm in a network of African political analysts, and the stuff I get there can't even be posted here. It's too hard emotionally. But thanks for the reply :-)
 
BTW: If you can get me a URL of a really independent US channel, I'd be glad. Not Alex Jones stuff though LOL
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 12:48pm
Atom - what are you on? The state doesn't provide anyone's beliefs.
Of course I believe in the UN and the declaration of Human Rights - the best document created by man.  I want a better, fairer society where people get paid a fair whack for their efforts and aren't exploited by a bunch of billionaires who screw them for every penny. I want a pleasant society that is happy and friendly. I want a place without violence. I want a fairer distribution of wealth so that ordinary people get their fair share. I want great infrastructure and services like education, welfare and health. I want to be free, creative and not be bullied, harassed or threatened. I want to be happy and fulfilled.
That's why I don't live in the USA. Tried it for a year or too. Not enough freedom for me. Too violent and too brainwashed. Poorly educated and too much of a police state.
Atom Rider Added Jul 10, 2018 - 1:03pm
Opher, I am 100% free. No law on paper can control me. Like murder, If the law had control, there wouldn't be any. The law only controls what happens after a person commits a crime, not before. You obviously have not studied law. No law exists that says, you have to do something. American laws aren't written that way. Words on paper have zero control. You can write the word hammer on a piece of paper, but you'll never be able to drive a nail with it. When it comes to law, laws are only guidelines, it's always, always, up to the jury, the ultimate trier of facts, and laws. The jury has the power to ignore the written law. That's how it works in America. You must not be familiar with the Constitution, try reading the 7th amendment. Or, how about USC 18-242. Or, "Ex parte Young" or the Bivens act. These laws don't keep those in power, from breaking the law, unfortunately. But its a way to keep the powers in check. Because they are under contract and oath, I am not under any contract or oath. I am free to do anything I want, laws of physics excluded.
Atom Rider Added Jul 10, 2018 - 1:15pm
Opher, actually, if you believe in the UN ICCPRs, you can't also be socialist because there are no taxes. What you want is irrelevant, it's about what actually is.  Delusions vs. reality.
 
 
Dino Manalis Added Jul 10, 2018 - 1:43pm
 The proper terminology is nation-state, because some nations still don't have a political entity.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 2:04pm
Works that way here too Atom. Just try driving up the wrong side of the road and see how free you are. I think you are splitting hairs.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 2:06pm
Atom - socialists don't pay taxes? I think we do. We want to pay more taxes so that we get far better services and standard of life.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 2:07pm
Dino - OK - I dig that.
Doug Plumb Added Jul 10, 2018 - 2:51pm
re "Doug - I think we've all done an inordinate amount of reading and studying. That doesn't automatically make you smart though, I'm afraid.  "
 
You cannot be without it. You have to read and understand a science before you can start throwing opinions around. The proof against Marxism, or Utilitarianism and a political system are simple to understand.
Doug Plumb Added Jul 10, 2018 - 2:52pm
re "Doug - what a silly tirade about Jews. You really believe that there is no Sicilian mafia? That's just sheer, undiluted antisemitism. You should be ashamed.  "
 
How do you know there is a Sicilian Mafia? The Godfather?
Neil Lock Added Jul 10, 2018 - 3:31pm
Stone-Eater: Socialism... demands working together.
 
The problem is, together with whom? Those who share a particular geographical area, or religion, or culture, or political ideology, or...? My view is that each of us has the right to choose who we work together with. But socialists demand that we work together with - and that means under - themselves.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 3:39pm
Doug - my father was stationed in Sicily and then Naples during the war. He spent years there. He saw what was going on. Why are you coming out with stuff that is obviously nuts when you claim to be a rational man. The Jews run the world and there is no Mafia - yes and elephants never have six foot bogies.
Neil Lock Added Jul 10, 2018 - 3:40pm
Dino: some nations still don't have a political entity.
 
Absolutely right, Dino. The Kurds are an obvious example. But there's an even more obvious one - the English. And Opher wants not only to subordinate English people to a bad political state called the "UK," but would then subordinate us, along with the Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish, to an even worse bunch of power grabbers called the European Union.
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 3:41pm
Neil - no it doesn't. I would like to see a socialist state with community politics. We work together with the community we live in - a bit like our parish council.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jul 10, 2018 - 3:44pm
Opher
 
"rycK - I'd be happy if they did. Every time I put up a post on here I get a bunch of Americans reciting the misinformation they've gleaned off right-wing websites. It's garbage."
 
You seem to see some kind of wall that prevents the right wing from submitting certain arguments or making claims of many kinds against things that they cannot tolerate. Your comments fall into this category. 
 
You seem to suggest that yours is the only possible characterization of how a society should act and treat their citizens. That view is very narrow and smacks of shallow  political training. 
 
Socialism has a varied and inconsistent history and frequently causes more problems that it solves. Much of this problem lies in the inability for socialists to select leaders who can run economies [Van Rompuy, Harold Wilson, Castro, Ortega, Olof Palma, Lenin, etc.] Socialism is inefficient compared to capitalism because their leaders cannot manage capital allotment and debt management and just spend too much.  Watch the EU go down piece by piece [Greece, then Italy.....]
 
Americans do not spread all the disinformation out there. There are others who do the same or worse. 
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 3:55pm
rycK - no I just don't like lies and misrepresentations posing as truth.
Europe is lost. Swamped with Muslims. Sharia law. No global warming. No mass extinctions. We can handle a population ten times the size.
It's sheer dangerous bollocks.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 10, 2018 - 4:07pm
All of those are true, Opher.  Take your BBC and CNN glasses off.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jul 10, 2018 - 4:43pm
Misrepresentations candidates from Opher:
 
[1]Europe is lost.
 
 
Europe is in good shape? NATO is not well funded. If the US moves out of Germany, as it should, being there for no reason, then how does the EU deal with Russia?
 
How is the EU or UK debt levels? Sustainable? Really? How is the refugee problem going? Smoothly? Is Italy going down as Greece did?
 
[2]Swamped with Muslims.
 
Two million Muslims in Germany alone and more to come to Italy and the Balkans and France as 'refugees' while refusing to assimilate and bring along their own customs and yes Sharia law.  Young Muslims now encouraged to stab innocents? Sounds strange to me. 
 
[3]Sharia law?
 
How does 'Kill the Infidel' stand with you? People should die because they refuse to believe in some archaic nostrums?
 
[4] No global warming. 
 
No, no proof of this as the so-called 'scientists' cannot predict future thermal events and use means to avoid criticism by other scientists. This is a political adventure bent on gaining larger and larger shares of tax monies. The best view of this is that thermal trends are cyclic and have been changing for millions of years. 
 
The Hockey Stick is a joke. 
 
Dangerous bollocks... appear to ooze out of the BBC on occasions and even more emerge out of Labour in the UK. Jeremy Corbyn is a rational politician? Or, just another socialist bent on political gains. 
Doug Plumb Added Jul 10, 2018 - 5:00pm
re "my father was stationed in Sicily and then Naples during the war. "
 
Did your father see the whole war or was he busy counting Jews as they entered the gas chambers?
Doug Plumb Added Jul 10, 2018 - 5:09pm
Hey maybe if you hitched a ride on a moon rocket you could see the giant Marxist bloodstain left on the planet.
Doug Plumb Added Jul 10, 2018 - 5:12pm
Here is one for you Opher
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 6:39pm
rycK - To quote Paul Simon - A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.
Never truer. As I said - this belief in utter lies is extremely dangerous.
Atom Rider Added Jul 10, 2018 - 6:41pm
opher, you obviously have contempt for freedom, when you compare it to stupidity and suicidal tendencies. The fact remains, if I were as stupid as you, and wanted to drive the wrong way into traffic, I could. Fortunately for me, I'm not as stupid as you are, and have no desire to kill myself or anyone else. Well, maybe if there were a hunting season on libtards, I might enjoy that, but I wouldn't bother with a license, I'd be a poacher. Cause that's how I roll. Ezekiel 25:17, And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. 
opher goodwin Added Jul 10, 2018 - 6:41pm
Doug - thanks I like the Eurythmics.
My Dad was fighting fascists. Shame - some obviously got away.
Doug Plumb Added Jul 10, 2018 - 7:40pm
Annie Lennox has a few amazing songs
Doug Plumb Added Jul 10, 2018 - 7:42pm
re " I might enjoy that, but I wouldn't bother with a license, I'd be a poacher. Cause that's how I roll. Ezekiel 25:17"
 
lol. Welcome to WB Atom Rider
Doug Plumb Added Jul 10, 2018 - 7:43pm
The proof against Marxism, or Utilitarianism and a political system are simple to understand.
Atom Rider Added Jul 10, 2018 - 8:10pm
Thanks Doug, I'm enjoying WB, Opoher/socialists, make for an easy target. It's a little like Mike Tyson vs Don Knotts but he got in the ring. I'm still waiting for him to point out one actual benefit of socialism in reality, but all he has is pie in the sky theory that doesn't work back here on Earth. Libs are such suckers. Like when the Pope says, Worship me, serve me, obey me, sacrifice yourself, I can't pay you now but after you're dead, someone will reward you in heaven. oooouuuu, I'll take two please.
opher goodwin Added Jul 11, 2018 - 3:59am
Atom you obviously did not read my article then. It details the benefits of socialism from the 1945 Atlee Government in the UK:
I am always hearing, particularly from Americans, that socialism has never worked, that it always decays into tyranny.
 
But they are wrong.
 
In 1945, in the wake of the 2nd World War, Britain elected a Socialist government. Not only did we not descend into tyranny but, at a time of huge economic depression, the country devastated by bombing and the demobbing of millions of troops, they managed to be hugely successful and brought in systems that lifted millions out of poverty, squalor and misery, made work safer and more lucrative, families secure, and made the country a far better place. They laid the groundwork for much of the best of what is in Britain today.
 
Britain did not decay into tyranny or set up Gulags. It did not descend into economic lassitude. Far from it. It flourished and prospered. It became fairer, more compassionate and a far better place to live. 
 
People forget how bad things were. At the turn of the 20th Century Britain was the greatest, wealthiest nation in the world yet its working people lived in squalor and misery. All that wealth had been siphoned off into the aristocrats and businessmen. Not much of it filtered down to ordinary people. The rich lived in their stately homes with servants while most people lived in slums and worked themselves into the ground in dangerous and foul conditions.
 
Only 1 child in every 270 went to secondary school.
 
There were 250 child deaths in every thousand.
 
Unemployment, death of the breadwinner and old age meant hunger, malnutrition, destitution and death was not uncommon. 
 
The workhouse was a dire place reserved for those at their wits end with nowhere to fall back to.
 
Wages were poor. Men worked long hours often in terrible conditions.
 
Most people could not afford a doctor, glasses or dentistry. Those who could not afford it merely suffered and died.
 
Every family knew of death and were used to burying their children.
 
Clement Atlee's socialist government turned all that around. They brought in a raft of great social changes that are still operating today and laid the groundwork for a fair society. They brought in the Welfare State. What a radical achievement. It was based on adequate income, adequate healthcare, adequate housing and adequate employment.
 
The Welfare State attacked the ills of society on many fronts.
 
The NHS was probably the jewel in the crown. It provided free healthcare, dentistry and glasses for every man woman and child - all for the payment of a small national Insurance payment.
 
When it came in millions queued to get glasses and have teeth out. It removed the fear of illness and children in postwar generations enjoyed vitamin supplements to make them healthier. What child from that generation can forget the spoon of cod liver oil and spoon of concentrated orange juice or the free bottle of milk at school each day? Rickets and scurvy were suddenly a thing of he past.
 
They did not stop there though. They brought in sickness benefit so that families did not starve. They brought in widow's pensions and old age pensions that saved hundreds of thousands from the workhouse, starvation and death.
 
They introduced national parks for the health of the nation.
 
They started slum clearances and council housing.
 
They raised the school leaving age and set about educating the nation so that ordinary children could achieve and prosper.
 
They nationalised the railways, coal, electricity, gas and communications. No longer would these utilities be run for profit for the wealthy. No longer would conditions be unsafe with regular terrible accidents.
 
They brought in legal redress so that the poor could be represented in courts and gain a fair hearing.
 
They were instrumental in setting up NATO so that Europe would no longer be plunged into war.
 
They were instrumental in setting up the United Nations so that war and human rights could be addressed across the world and conflicts avoided.
 
They worked with the unions to gain fair wages and better
Doug Plumb Added Jul 11, 2018 - 6:39am
Atom Rider: They adopt socialism so no one notices the gutting of the economy. Socialists over here, in all their goodness, forget that their cellphones are made by eight year olds working 80 hour work weeks for a seventy five cent paycheque as a consequence of globalism.
Atom Rider Added Jul 11, 2018 - 10:42am
Opher, You the biggest liar I've ever seen. You don't actually believe that pack of horse shit you're trying to sell do you? The UK is not socialist. You're talking to the true King of England. Well, my dad is still alive, so technically, he is, but he's retired. If it weren't for the usurpers that beheaded my gggggg..
...........grandad, I'd be sitting in Buckingham palace right now. The first Duke, first creation of Buckingham was a Bigod that changed his name to Stafford. Yes, I'm a Bigod. You know, the family that wrote all those Magna Cartas, from 1100 on.... The ones that liberated mankind on Earth, inventing freedom by law. Your Bullshit is total Bullshit. The UN plagiarizes my family's intellectual property and ideology won by blood. Your puny infinitesimal view of history make me want to puke. The UK is in ruins today, thanks Atlee. You idealize Atlee and give him credit where none is due. Health and education, that was another of my ggggg..grandads work, you may have heard of him, Charlemagne, who brought Europe out of the dark ages. I'd fill you in on the rest of your ignorance, but quite frankly, I don't give a shit about idiots who know nothing. 
Bill H. Added Jul 11, 2018 - 11:11am
Well, Trump is on his way to the summit to once again make a fool out of himself and probably alienate the rest of what is left of our allies.
Then it's off to cuddle with Putin and try to make deals for more Trump Towers and other buildings in Russia.
As Trump himself stated - "The Putin meeting will be the easiest".
I suspect Putin is having cameras installed in Trump's hotel room as we speak.
Atom Rider Added Jul 11, 2018 - 11:37am
FO Bill H., You're the only idiot looking like a fool. Allies, you mean the leaches that have been sucking America's tit for the last 50 years? Yes, I'm sure their alienation will sour the milk. Good riddens. Tell you what, lets trade 10 libtards for each Russian who moves here. Hell lets double that for middle easterners, 20 per Russian. 
opher goodwin Added Jul 11, 2018 - 11:41am
Atom - I wish you could read. It would make things so much easier.
I didn't say Britain is socialist now. It has been run badly by the Tories for 9 years now. It's a capitalist nightmare with public services squeezed to death.
I said that the 1945 Clement Atlee government was truly socialist and did a great job.
opher goodwin Added Jul 11, 2018 - 11:44am
Bill - yes he's already tweeting in an attempt to divide and rule and he wonders why there are mass protests all over Britain. We don't like fascists over here.
Of course the Russians will be easier. They put him in power. He's got to kow-tow to his masters and pay homage.
The media over here think he stinks. They openly talk about him already being the worst president in US history. He's a lout.
opher goodwin Added Jul 11, 2018 - 11:46am
Atom - yes - strange that - how the Americans hate communism and suddenly like Russians.
It's very Orwellian.
Atom Rider Added Jul 11, 2018 - 12:03pm
opher, I like Russians, just not their politics, that changes when they move here, and learn what freedom means, something that escapes you. At least they don't go around raping babies and blowing up innocent civilians. Or throwing their women in jail for 20 years because they took off their hijab. I guess in your mind, if the media over there hates Trump, then you must too, lemmings who can't think for themselves and look to guidance from a tv. It's amazing how stupid you are.
Bill H. Added Jul 11, 2018 - 12:17pm
 
Atom - your a classic Trump Minion!
You would agree with him even if he decided to become friendly with all of the Mideast terrorist groups on a whim.
Yep, whatever the Orange Buffoon comes up with, you guys will follow him to eventual ruin.
I suggest that you take a class in the Russian language, because if Trump has his way, we will all soon be Vodka afficianados.
Na Zdorovie (На здоровье), Comrade!
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jul 11, 2018 - 2:29pm
Trump will attempt to destroy socialism wherever it exists. 
 
Good riddance to parasitism. 
opher goodwin Added Jul 11, 2018 - 4:54pm
Atom - I don't follow the media - I just look at the uncouth man and all the crap things he's doing. I don't like fascism, racism or misogyny so I guess that's three strikes - then there's his environmental policies and deregulation. The man's a dangerous moron.
opher goodwin Added Jul 11, 2018 - 4:56pm
rycK - I think the man is so unstable there's no knowing what he will destroy. He's a psycho. He is also the biggest parasite on the planet. He's sucking everyone dry but people are too gullible to see it.
opher goodwin Added Jul 11, 2018 - 4:57pm
Bill - and they call us lemmings - they can't even see the cliff's looming.
Ward Tipton Added Jul 13, 2018 - 11:04pm
The major issue of contention would be that the vast majority of the people long to be led in one fashion or another, and there will always be a class of people who crave power and control who want to lead. What should we replace it with? A global government that will somehow or another miraculously become benevolent and kind and fully integrate humanity into a singular race of peace-loving people? 
 
If you are proposing such a radical shift in the current paradigm, viable alternatives would be in order ... or do you propose an anarchic global society instead? Anarchy, even in its true form and not as an extension of social chaos used to implement totalitarian governments, would also only work with a moral and just people. 
Atom Rider Added Jul 14, 2018 - 1:20am
opher and bill h., "cliffs looming?" you must be one of those phony psychics. The only cliff I see is the one you and the other globalist socialist are jumping off. It's not Trump doing it, it's your own doing. I know neither of you knows Trump personally, so you parrot the liberal media social programmers that have taken over your mind. I bet you haven't done any real research, like read all the executive orders. Seen who he's pardoned, like the Hammonds. Your kind is a cancer on the Earth, and Trump is the vaccine. It would be my honor to kill anyone who tried to make me be a socialist, or any other kind of traitor to freedom.
 
Ward Tipton Added Jul 14, 2018 - 1:57am
The part I particularly enjoy, is where the system of governance has failed at the national level ... so let's institute it GLOBALLY!
 
What could possibly go wrong? 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jul 14, 2018 - 2:08pm
Ward Tipton
 
"the system of governance has failed at the national level ..... so let's institute it GLOBALLY!"
 
In most of the 180 nations we see a predominance of this failure so perhaps that is how humans go about governance. 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 14, 2018 - 2:46pm
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jul 14, 2018 - 3:06pm
Ryan Messano
 
And, how many 'democracies. are there now  that have only 1 person on the ballot? Such governments have taken all from many people and continue to do so while this pretense persists.  In the last century 100 million folk were murdered by Marxists playing with the definition of democracy. 
 
We  cannot trust government in any form without ways to defeat the dictators. The Bill of Rights got all this right in the first try and the attempts to get around these rights has been the intense business of the far left ever since. 
 
 Perhaps we can rephrase Ford as follows:
 
A leftist government big enough to give you everything you might want, is a government certain enough to take from you everything you have, and many have done so and many more want to try. 
opher goodwin Added Jul 15, 2018 - 2:02pm
Atom - traitor to freedom? You're not very bright are you? You don't seem to really understand a lot.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jul 15, 2018 - 2:35pm
Opher and All
 
"Atom - traitor to freedom? You're not very bright are you? You don't seem to really understand a lot."
 
This is the frequent reasoned response by Opher. 
 
Learn from this tactic. 
opher goodwin Added Jul 19, 2018 - 7:13am
rycK - that is not true is it? I rarely use such a response do I? If you follow all the threads I comment on I use intelligent answers.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jul 19, 2018 - 9:09am
Opher
 
"rycK - that is not true is it? I rarely use such a response do I? If you follow all the threads I comment on I use intelligent answers."
 
Read yer own words as you wrote them. Not mine. 
opher goodwin Added Jul 19, 2018 - 2:28pm
rycK - you said 'frequent' - not true is it?