In Favor of Separating Children from Incarcerated Parents

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(Warning: This article couches this topic in terms of left and right.  Why?  Because that #$@% is real... not some derived device invented to divide people.  Rather left/right is a description (an accurate one even) of a divide that already exists.  So, this is fair warning that if such left/right observations really get you panties in a wad... please read no further.  Thank you.)

 

Every year, tens of thousands of children are "separated" from their parents here in the United States.  The reasons vary from neglect to incarceration.  For the record, when parents/guardians are negligent or about to be incarcerated... I support "separation".  We don't leave children is abusive environments and we don't incarcerate them with their parents.  Also for the record, if this policy is good enough for the children of citizens of this great nation, it's also good enough for the children of those who come here illegally/criminally.

 

Recently the left (yes, the LEFT) discovered that separating children from illegal immigrant parents was occurring and decided this was perfect political fodder.  The organized and predictable hissy fit from the left ensued.  A lot of propaganda and misinformation also ensued from the main stream media. (big surprise)

 

 

The Cause:

First, let's look at what really brought this to the attention of the left, and their motives for hyping it.

 

1) The law has been for decades that when you enter the country illegally, you are detained (as in arrested and incarcerated).  That is THE law.  If one does not like THE law, the remedy is to change it.  Seeking "asylum" after breaking the law does not mitigate this (see below).

 

2) For the most part, the previous administration ignored THE law; and simply let those who entered the country illegally go into the general population.  They did this with the general objective of diluting the culture and current political ideology of the nation... one might call this "fundamentally transforming" the country.  Granted there were times when some illegals were detained and when that happened they were (correctly) separated from any children with them.

 

3) The current administration, decided that it would enforce THE law and would begin incarcerating all who entered the nation illegally.  And by law, since we don't incarcerate children, the government separated children from parents about to be incarcerated. 

 

The Real Motivation:

The left wants to go back to a blanket policy of releasing illegal immigrants into the general population and have latched onto this issue as the best means to achieve that goal.  And... they are likely right.  But at the same time, this is one of those “be careful what you wish for” scenarios; the reality behind the appearance may bite them on the ass if voters see what is really going on here.

 

I will add that the left has also created within the system catch-22 scenarios, mostly through judicial fiat, to make every solution illegal except one, catch and release.

 

Misdirection - Asylum:

As part of the misdirection fed us by the left and the main stream media (redundant, I know); it is implied that all these people are doing is seeking asylum.  I'm not sure as to the number/percentage who seek asylum, but (legally) it doesn't matter.  There are legal means to seek asylum and when you don't follow the legal remedy, your actions are criminal (illegal) and there are consequences (when those who administer the law actually choose to administer the law).

 

"To apply for asylum in the United States, you may ask for asylum at a port-of-entry (airport, seaport, or border crossing), or, if you are already in the United States, you may file Form I-589, Application for Asylum and for Withholding of Removal, at the appropriate Service Center." -- U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS)

 

The proper way to apply for asylum is to do so at a "port-of-entry" OR file at an "appropriate Service Center" if you are already in the United States. 

 

I can already hear the rusty leftist gears grinding away after that last sentence... so let me quickly add, already "in the United States" assumes you are legally in the United States.  Applying for asylum does not nullify your breaking the law to get here.  It does not wipe the slate clean of the consequences of breaking the law.

 

In fact.  Illegal aliens caught could choose to be deported and thus stay with their children and then go through the legal process of applying at a port-of-entry; what they should have done in the first place.  Practically none, choose to do that, they choose instead to be separated from their children.

 

Misdirection - Concentration Camps:

As part of the misdirection fed us by the left and the main stream media (redundant again, I know); it is implied that the children are in cages and that the conditions are horrible.  The word concentration (for emotional and propaganda effect) has been used. 

 

Most (if not all) of these assertions have been discredited, yet... the accusations continue to pour forth like a geyser from a tapped fire hydrant.  Why?  The intent is purely political.  Harm the other side; and force them to simply start releasing any and all illegal immigrants with children.

 

Now... there may be things that need to change concerning where and how these children are held.  If any abuse or unsatisfactory conditions are found, that needs to be addressed.  What I'm not willing to accept is simply return to a policy of catch and release (which again, is the goal of the left).

 

One solution may be a system where the children are reunited with their parents and held/processed at a facility designed for families.  (I expect a leftist judge to eventually nullify this.)  Another may be electronic monitoring.  Personally, I'm open to any solutions that expedite processing and/or ensure those who entered illegally don't just melt into society never to be properly vetted and processed.

 

With that in mind, I will point out that it is also the left that has gummed up the system to ensure that the process doesn't work, then demands that illegals be released when the gummed-up system doesn't work fast enough.  Again... pointing directly to their original intent in the first place... a return to catch and release.

 

Conclusion:

What this is really all about is... do we hold accountable (by rule of law) those who cross our borders illegally.  The left says no, the right says yes.  The left has politically chosen children as the means to force their view on the subject.  And, to their credit, this recent political campaign has been very effective in the short term.  As for the long term?  We'll see.  Being fed up with the status quo got Trump elected... this is status quo in spades.

 

The Trump administration has decided the optics of this makes it in their best interest to try and hold the families together in different facilities while they are being sorted out for "asylum" claims.  I predict this will not be an acceptable solution for the left, because it does not meet their original goal (which was not bringing children and parents together) ... but rather a return to the policy to simply releasing the illegals into the general population with no hope of ever holding them accountable.  Nothing short of this result will pacify the left.  (Just watch the forthcoming comments on this post for evidence).

 

Note that the left has reached a point where they are actually advocating the abolishment of ICE.  More proof that the goal is as much unfettered illegal immigration into this nation as possible.  Open borders being the ultimate goal.  How one reaches such a low in rational thought is beyond comprehension.

Comments

Rick W. Added Jul 3, 2018 - 10:41am
One thing I've never understood... and I sense even asking the question would get my hippie card revoked... if you're fleeing gangs in El Salvador and Guatemala, why not seek asylum in Mexico? They speak Spanish, they're a majority Catholic culture, it's a similar climate (at least in the south) -- in short, it's a much easier place for a Salvadoran or Guatemalan to adapt to, than the continental USA. 
 
Yes, Mexico has gangs, but they don't rule 100% of the country. (And America has gangs, too, so there's no guarantee that a poor person who doesn't speak English won't be abused by them here).
 
As I understand it, a minority of potential Central American refugees do seek asylum in Mexico, but Mexico isn't up to the task any more than we are. Maybe we should help them meet that demand, rather than yell at them about paying for imaginary giant walls? Won't be possible with current president, but maybe the next one won't spend so much energy insulting our neighbors, allies, and trading partners.
TexasLynn Added Jul 3, 2018 - 11:40am
Rick W!  My favorite moderate! :)
 
Rick W >> One thing I've never understood... if you're fleeing gangs in El Salvador and Guatemala, why not seek asylum in Mexico?
 
The answer is simple and everybody knows it.  It's not about asylum (fleeing persecution), it's about economics.  Yes, their nations are not in the best shape in many regards, but that is often due to leftist looters and corruption (see Chavez and Castro etc...); yet the people causing most of the problems are the ones embraced by the elitist left in this nation.
 
Rick W >> They speak Spanish, they're a majority Catholic culture, it's a similar climate (at least in the south) -- in short, it's a much easier place for a Salvadoran or Guatemalan to adapt to, than the continental USA.
 
They lack the economic opportunity; which is why the illegals are coming... and everybody knows it.  If they showed any inkling of stopping in Mexico, Mexico would nip that in the bud quick.  No due process, no lawyers, no detention... just immediate deportation.
 
Rick W >> As I understand it, a minority of potential Central American refugees do seek asylum in Mexico, but Mexico isn't up to the task any more than we are.
 
It's worse than that, Mexico is barely one step away from being in as dire straits as central America.  Organized crime and the cartels are more in control of Mexico than we think.
 
Rick W >> Maybe we should help them meet that demand, rather than yell at them about paying for imaginary giant walls?
 
No... Mexico is too corrupt.  Money sent is just stolen and/or waisted.
 
We need to secure our borders with the understanding that Mexico will NEVER be part of that solution.  We should do this with walls, fences, drones, our military... whatever is most efficient and cost effective for the terrain.  I'm a firm believer in all the above.  (And yes, walls are part of that.)
 
Jeff Michka Added Jul 3, 2018 - 11:54am
Now Ric Wells is TraitorLynn's favorite moderate!!  I bet Ric is celebrating as I key.  TraitorLynn, after all his blatant faith-based hypocrisy, needs to suck up to people other than Trumpist shills.  He'll quote you some bible verses to show how much of an Xtain, then get  angry at me for reminding people when it suited TraitorLynn, trying to expand his right-wing extremist creds, he advocated break up the Union, but then tells everyone he's such a patriot, upset over football players protesting, 'cause he's a super patriot.  He wants things both ways, and he knows the ground under him fell away with his first pitch hypocrisy.
William Stockton Added Jul 3, 2018 - 12:04pm
Right, Lynn.  
The shame in the present day is how dumbed down we had become by past political leaders . . . to think illegal immigration was not going to be a huge problem someday.
This is a great example of American politics led by policy formers who bowed to The Tyranny of the Weak & Stupid (both left and right).
 
When Trump first brought up immigration reform in those early days of his campaign, I was blown away.  Why had this conversation been buried for so many decades?  Why had I just accepted the status quo? 
 
More suspiciously. . . why did it take a non-politician to raise this issue?  This very issue underscored, nay segregated, for me, the difference between career politicians who were sucking off the teet of government politics and a guy who wanted to address legal cancer metastasizing in American culture.  When I heard Trump say, "build the wall", I knew, like most Republicans, that all other 2016 Republican candidates for president were full of shit.  That was my red-pill moment in 2016.
opher goodwin Added Jul 3, 2018 - 12:14pm
The end of all humane compassion; the start of callous bureaucracy. It stinks no matter how hard you try to justify it. It is inhumane.
TexasLynn Added Jul 3, 2018 - 12:16pm
Jeff Michka >> Now Ric Wells is...
 
Read before you post... Dumbass.  Does the above comment come from "Rick Wells"? 
 
As if your drug addled brain has any power of concentration or comprehension... but try.  Put forth some minimal effort before you “comment” even though everything you post RARELY has anything to do with the actual subject.
 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 
Autumn?  Isn’t there an actual WB rule where commenters should read and their comments be pertinent to the subject/comments.  I know everybody goes off on tangents, but Jeff M. is ridiculous.
 
A variation of this comment is all Jeff M. every posts on any subject.
 
You gave grief to poor old Dino on this issue (and even suspended his account for a time if I’m not mistaken).  Dino is a reading comprehension god compared to Jeff M.
 
If you don’t think this brain dead prick is costing WB quality posters and content, you are sorely mistaken.
William Stockton Added Jul 3, 2018 - 12:25pm
Opher:  The end of all humane compassion; the start of callous bureaucracy. It stinks no matter how hard you try to justify it. It is inhumane.
 
Hilarious (but not really), coming from a person who would dehumanize writers here with words like "bigot", "racist", "homophobe" whenever they do not agree with you.
 
You lefties have your hypocritical heads so far up your empathic ass, you don't know if that emotion you feel is valid sympathy or you just needing to take a big shit.
TexasLynn Added Jul 3, 2018 - 12:33pm
William S >> You lefties have your hypocritical heads so far up your empathic ass...
 
The left thinks we on the right are without compassion.  Because we don't act in knee-jerk fashion to display such empathy/compassion.
 
Opher is no different in this regard.  There is a tinge of virtue signaling in the whole exchange as well.  He would have us open our borders to everyone (out of compassion) with no regard to the results of us becoming as big a ^%$@-hole country as the one they left.
 
Because we (on the right) look objectively at results (often literally death and destruction)... we can't help but think the left is a bunch of &*(%ing morons.
Dino Manalis Added Jul 3, 2018 - 12:34pm
 During parents' incarceration, children should be with other loving family members, but jail is not a solution for illegal immigration, we either have to deport or legalize them with work permits.
TexasLynn Added Jul 3, 2018 - 12:37pm
Dino,
Thank you for the insightful and pertinent comment.  I agree. :)
TexasLynn Added Jul 3, 2018 - 12:52pm
William S,
Great comment and analysis of how both parties are the problem on this issue.  That is the case, unfortunately, on many other issues we face.  Your observation is why I have said that the GOP will NEVER be the solution this nation needs.
 
As I've repeatedly stated, I did not vote for Trump because I did not consider him a conservative.
 
That said, He is my president and I'll support him when he right, and not when he's wrong.  He is (overall) right on immigration.
 
I don't think a wall from the Gulf to the Pacific is feasible or economical.  As I stated above... I think "We should do this (secure the border) with walls, fences, drones, our military... whatever is most efficient and cost effective for the terrain."
 
When Trump says, "build the wall" that may be what he means.  I don't know, but I wish he would clarify if that is what he means.
 
BUT... to give him credit, you are right.  He's the only one who has taken the issue seriously... much the chagrin and absolute irrational mouth-frothing madness of the left.
opher goodwin Added Jul 3, 2018 - 1:02pm
Tex - what did Jesus say?
Even A Broken Clock Added Jul 3, 2018 - 1:08pm
TexasLynn - two comments. First, it is a misdemeanor, not a felony, for a first time offense of entering this country illegally. I would think that in the case of a misdemeanor, it would be possible to develop a system to keep family units together until their case comes up.
 
Which brings up the second point - politically we've lacked all will to deal with this issue ever since the initial change to the immigration policy back in the Reagan era. All attempts at bipartisan legislation have been prevented from even being debated in the House or Senate during the past two decades. Everyone seems insistent on keeping control of legislation within a single party, and if that party cannot form a majority, nothing gets done. Thus we have a horrendous lack of immigration judges, since there's no will to fund more, which leads to lengthy periods before cases can be heard, which leads to electronic monitoring (catch and release) being used as the only logistically practical method of dealing with the issue.
 
Let's work for a bipartisan solution that a majority of Senators and House members can agree to regardless of party. One that not only deals with physical border security, but also deals with the equally significant problem of visa overstays. One that provides resources to remove the backlog of immigration cases that we currently have. Let's come up with a policy that encourages merit-based immigration, but also provides the ability for farm workers to meet needs throughout the country on a temporary basis. And finally, let's work with the countries in Central America to deal with the chronic problems that have caused the economic and violence-escaping refugees from coming in the first place.
Riley Brown Added Jul 3, 2018 - 1:53pm
 Even A Broken Clock if you get caught steeling a loaf of bread from the 99 cent store because your children are starving, and have your kids with you, the police will take them into protective custody before they haul you away for shoplifting. 
 
Do you think all families need to be kept together, or just Illegals?
 
Why don't you think anyone has been screaming about keeping US citizens who get detained together with their families?
 
This fight has nothing to do with keeping families together, it never has.  If it was we'd have done the same for citizens years ago. 
 
It's a political tool being used to force the US to stop detaining and deporting illegals by demanding "justice" that the system isn't built to provide and would result in the US having to let most of them go because they couldn't be processed fast enough.
 
I'm sick of exceptions for illegals.  Do you know if they crash their unregistered car into your car, and have no license or insurance, the police just let them drive away in Los Angeles.  They decided it was too inhuman for them to have their card impounded and sold to pay for part of the damages if they had no money.  If they want to go to college, do you know they pay less in California than the children of our military who are stationed in California?
 
Stopping the separations would just remove one of the last inconveniences they faced, and encourage even more to come here.
 
Thomas Sutrina Added Jul 3, 2018 - 1:57pm
America is not the the solution for every shit hole socialist nation.  If we try to be then we will become our own shit hole socialist nation.  Maybe that is what the socialist (democratic party) want.  Seem to be the popular socialist tactic to gain power.  Create enough Chaos that ANY SOLUTION IS ACCEPTABLE.   Sorry but I object and so do more then half the population.   Europe population has a similar opinion of their socialist politicians creating chaos. 
 
We need radio free Americas and radio free Islamic Caliphate to broadcast the principles of liberty, natural law, government laws without special treatment based on class and the removal of class barrier to mobility, and property rights, free trade locally and internationally.   This will be accepted because humans by their nature are attracted to the list above.  They are also attracted to charismatic leaders and normally never get to hear the liberty pitch.   The black market in the most suppression nation always exist because as I said it is natural of humans.  Totalitarianism can not suppress what comes natural.
TexasLynn Added Jul 3, 2018 - 2:19pm
Opher G >> Tex - what did Jesus say?
 
Did you have a specific verse or concept in mind?  Please share it if you do… but please be careful.  I have little patience for those who do not know Him, nay, don’t even believe in Him or His Father and assume they know better what his stance on an issue would be.
 
What did Jesus say, specifically about separating children from parents when they are sent to jail?  Not much. 
 
Do you think Jesus would advocate for children being incarcerated with jailed parents? 
 
Do you think He would advocate for criminal aliens to be just caught and released into society at the cost of future society, with absolutely NO regard to future consequences?
 
Did you intend for your question to be answered objectively and rationally, or were you (who don't know Him) thinking He would just come down on your side.  You don't even believe in the Guy (or His Father), if I'm not mistaken.
 
Jesus was the embodiment of love and compassion, but He was no fool to the point inflicting greater evil for a brief gratifying movement of misplaced value signaling.
 
But... pertinent to this subject, the Bible (Paul) does say that we should submit to the laws of the land (government) when it does not contradict with the law/word of God.  The law of the land is... you are detained and processed.  The law of the land is... your children will not be detained with you, but be taken care of elsewhere.  So... biblically... let's do that.
 
Christ would have us show love and compassion.  Love and compassion does not equal ignoring the rule of law and allowing unfettered access across our borders.
 
Many look to Jesus as he had compassion and saved the woman who committed adultery from those who would stone her.  At the end he asked here, "Where are those who would condemn you."  She says there are none... and he replies, "Neither do I (condemn you)".  Most stop there, but in fact, Jesus continued and said, "Now go, and sin no more."  Note that he did not say... "Now go, and have a good time."
TexasLynn Added Jul 3, 2018 - 2:20pm
EABC, first let me thank you for the well thought out comment.  You and I aren't too far off from each other.  I would only ask you to look at the results/success of your recommendations; not just the intent and appearances.  If the end result is not all illegal aliens (or pretty dam close) being processed, then the solution has not been found.
 
All illegal aliens being processed is not the end goal of the left in this matter.  In fact, it is the exact opposite.
 
EABC >> First, it is a misdemeanor, not a felony, for a first time offense of entering this country illegally.
 
Yes... a misdemeanor that by law requires accountability and processing to the point of detention.  I'm just advocating for the following of the law.
 
Riley, give a perfect example of how a citizen would face a similar situation.
 
If a legal relative is available, I would say turn the kids over to them… if not, they become wards of the state… just like with citizens arrested.  When the parents are no longer incarcerated, by all means, release the children back to the parents.  I have no reason to believe this is not currently the policy.
 
EABC >> I would think that in the case of a misdemeanor, it would be possible to develop a system to keep family units together until their case comes up.
 
OK... I agree.  The administration is working towards those ends.  As long as we don't go back to catch and release... I'm OK with that.
 
EABC >> Which brings up the second point - politically we've lacked all will to deal with this issue ever since the initial change to the immigration policy back in the Reagan era.
 
Agreed... which means the law from that time has not changed.  So... follow it.
 
Inaction by the House or Senate does not entitle one (like with the last administration) to pull new law out of your ass.  This is not a banana republic.  In the absence of cooperation and new law... one is legally bound to follow what is currently on the books.  Doing that is exactly what has the left throwing its latest hissy fit.
 
EABC >> which leads to electronic monitoring (catch and release) being used as the only logistically practical method of dealing with the issue.
 
Electronic monitoring is NOT the definition of "catch and release" as practiced by the Obama administration.  Obama simply had illegal aliens sign a piece of paper promising they would appear in court on a certain date and that was it.  If you imagine the rate of appearance to be miniscule, you would be right.
 
I've got no problem with electronic monitoring as long as it is proven effective (95+% effective).  But the second it is not, then other means (including incarceration) is step 2.
 
EABC >> Let's work for a bipartisan solution that a majority of Senators and House members can agree to regardless of party.
 
Absolutely, but even on WB it’s pretty evident that this is not going to happen any time soon.  I think that is abundantly clear from comments on this and similar posts.  TDS is a major hurdle in this regard.
 
So, what do you do in the meantime?  Follow the existing law.
 
EABC >> One that not only deals with physical border security, but also deals with the equally significant problem of visa overstays.
 
Agreed... but I still submit that the lefts objective is to NOT have border security and NOT to deal with visa overstays.  They want illegal immigration to continue unabated (if not to increase in scope); thus the latest insanity advocating the abolishment of ICE.
 
EABC >> Let's come up with a policy that encourages merit-based immigration, but also provides the ability for farm workers to meet needs throughout the country on a temporary basis.
 
Agreed... but again NOT an objective of the left.
 
EABC >> And finally, let's work with the countries in Central America to deal with the chronic problems that have caused the economic and violence-escaping refugees from coming in the first place.
 
Now, this is a legitimate question…  How does one deal with corruption and socialist looters controlling Central America and turning their countries into $#@%-holes? 
 
Other than... forced regime change.  I'm open to suggestions, but I don't see many (left or right) ready to take the only action I can think of that would actually fix that problem.
TexasLynn Added Jul 3, 2018 - 2:35pm
Riley, thank you.  As usual to you get it and proceed to add so much more to the discussion.  The loaf of bread analogy is perfect in clarifying one of the main points of the post.  We are applying the same standard to illegal immigrants (who have broken the law) as we do to our own citizens... and the left has a conniption and can't see the hypocrisy or political agenda behind all this.
 
Riley >> This fight has nothing to do with keeping families together, it never has. 
 
Exactly, and yet the left would still have us pretend that this is all about keeping families together and the media will continue to push that misinformation.  We’re all expected to do this little dance and turn a blind eye to the truth.
 
Riley >> It's a political tool being used to force the US to stop detaining and deporting illegals by demanding "justice" that the system isn't built to provide and would result in the US having to let most of them go because they couldn't be processed fast enough.
 
Exactly.  The gum-up the system and then use the excuse that the system is gummed-up to demand unfettered release.
 
Riley >> I'm sick of exceptions for illegals. 
 
And that gets to the point of be careful of what you wish for.  The left lost the last Presidential election in large part because the people were sick and tired of one set of rules for us and another set for the Washington elites (the Clintons).
 
The left is setting the same trap for themselves in 2020.  They didn't see it coming before... they won't see it coming them.
 
Riley >> Stopping the separations would just remove one of the last inconveniences they faced, and encourage even more to come here.
 
And THAT is the real objective of the left in all of this.
 
TexasLynn Added Jul 3, 2018 - 2:45pm
Thomas >> America is not the solution for every shit hole socialist nation.  If we try to be then we will become our own shit hole socialist nation.  Maybe that is what the socialist (democratic party) want. 
 
Right on all three accounts.
 
Thomas >> We need radio free Americas and radio free Islamic Caliphate to broadcast the principles of liberty, natural law, government laws without special treatment based on class and the removal of class barrier to mobility, and property rights, free trade locally and internationally. 
 
That could be a start as for our working with the countries in Central America.  Central American countries don't have problems causing the refugees... they are themselves the problem.  Unless you fundamentally change the socialist accepting mindset of the population, they will always be the problem.
 
Mexico isn’t much better.
 
Thomas >> This will be accepted because humans by their nature are attracted to the list above....
 
As the ultimate pessimist, I'm not so sure I agree, but admire your sentiment.  I think human nature gravitates toward a totalitarian system and we strive for something better when the deny ourselves and that nature.  THAT is why escaping tyranny is so rare and why even when we escape we must be constantly vigilant not to return to it.
 
Great comment... thanks.
Bill H. Added Jul 3, 2018 - 4:28pm
 
I am in favor of zero immigration from anywhere, and a world emphasis on population control.
My reasoning is not racial or religion.
My reasons are simply that we are at a point of limited resources, and we are facing all of the negatives that overpopulation brings, such as pollution, overcrowding, traffic, increased crime, not enough jobs, and food quality.
If we don't tackle these issues soon, it will be tackled for us.
 
opher goodwin Added Jul 3, 2018 - 5:10pm
Tex - How about 'Suffer the little children to come unto me' or did you think it was just 'suffer the little children'?
Jesus preached for compassion, to take in strangers, be a good Samaritan. He did not judge.
'Happy is he who is kind to the poor'. 
'Be not inhospitable to strangers, lest they be angels in disguise.'
Do Christians just pick and choose the bits that fit what they think?
TexasLynn Added Jul 3, 2018 - 5:16pm
Bill H >> I am in favor of zero immigration from anywhere, and a world emphasis on population control.
 
Out of curiosity, what does one have to do with the other?
 
Zero Immigration?  Why limit people from moving where they please, IF said nations will have them?  Even if there really was a population bomb issues? 
 
Population Control?  I do not agree with your assessment/concerns but I at least understand the rationale.  "World emphasis" on such an issue would require one of two things 1) A complete change in basic human nature (an impossibility) or 2) A world government to force such an emphasis (a distopian nightmare).
 
Put me down for neither, please. :)
 
Bill H >> My reasoning is not racial or religion.
 
Glad to hear it.  I take you at your word and believe you.  I won't infer otherwise.
 
My reasoning in writing the above post was also neither racial nor religious.  Just rational observation.  Though... I do follow the biblical tenet to do ALL things in word and deed according to my Christian faith.
 
Bill H >> My reasons are simply that we are at a point of limited resources, and we are facing all of the negatives that overpopulation brings, such as pollution, overcrowding, traffic, increased crime, not enough jobs, and food quality.
 
All those things have existed since the creation of civilization and cities.  Things that have always existed are hardly harbingers of doom.
 
I've been hearing about being at "a point", "the point" even, of destruction and no return for as long as I can remember, and I'm an old man (about a half century and counting).  Based on these repeated dire predictions of limited resources, mankind should have expired ten times over by now, yet here we are.  Go figure.
 
Bill H >> If we don't tackle these issues soon, it will be tackled for us.
 
Yep… exactly what I heard back in the 70s, and the 80s, and the 90s…  and the solution magically always seemed to be… socialist, collective, big government controlled, society on a global scale… Coincidence?
 
Why is the solution never rugged individual, liberty and freedom? :)
 
But, as for tackling these issues; as long as it doesn't cost any U.S. tax dollars, and you don't create a dystopian overlord world government... tackle away. :)
TexasLynn Added Jul 3, 2018 - 6:15pm
Opher... with all due respect (and I did warn you) ... in THIS case, you're just moron with access to Google.  It would be like me pretending to be a biologist based solely on what I can search for and quote off Google.  I'm not going to pull it off any better than you just did.  So, please.  Please.  When leftist atheists try to use religion, it's like a retarded chimp deciding he can shoot a gun as well as anybody.  So, just don't.  Stick with secular arguments.  Please.
 
Opher >> Tex - How about 'Suffer the little children to come unto me' or did you think it was just 'suffer the little children'?
 
LMAO.  This verse is advocation for teaching children to be Christian early in life.  Something YOU specifically abhor and denounce.  Yet you would stupidly (out of complete ignorance) try to use it here.  Had this been a gun you would have just shot your big toe off.  Put the gun down... Step away from the gun... you are not qualified to use it.
 
I apologize for being blunt (and offended) Opher.  I'm not going to comment on each verse or concept, unless you insist.  Instead...
 
Suffice it to say that, yes, we Christians do have an individual responsibility to show compassion to one another, to strangers, and even to our enemies.  THAT can (and should) be done without blindly opening our borders to millions of un-vetted, undocumented, illegal, immigrants (with or without children in tow).  Such stupidity would be the exact opposite of compassionate to the whole of the nation.
 
Personally, (as stated above) I would like to help these economic refugees by cleaning up the $#@%-holes created where their nations once stood.  Step 1?  Drive out the corruption and socialism currently infesting such nations.  If you don't start there, the prospects of these poor souls will never, NEVER, have any chance of improving.
TexasLynn Added Jul 3, 2018 - 6:17pm
A Jeff Michka comment on your post is like a dog #$@%ing on your article.
 
Reading a Jeff Michka comment is like inspecting a pile of dog #$@% for something of value.
 
Replying to a Jeff Michka comment is like intentionally stepping in dog #$@%.
 
Best to just acknowledge him and his #$@% as #$@% and ignore it as best you can.
 
On my posts, at least, I would ask that nobody acknowledge in any way that the Michka just took a dump... not matter how bad the stench.
opher goodwin Added Jul 3, 2018 - 6:54pm
Jeff - I have a qualification in Religion. I studied the bible and passed. Are you as qualified?
 
It is very disappointing that you choose to attack me for accurate quotes and not address the hypocrisy they reveal.
When it comes to it Christians are invariably hypocrites. It was one reason that I turned away from religion. If Jesus came back he'd be shocked at the way his teachings of peace and love have been subverted to support war and hatred.
In church on Sunday - the rest of the week out shooting, screwing and exploiting.
Jeff Michka Added Jul 3, 2018 - 7:00pm
huh, where did I attack you, opher?
 
Jeffry Gilbert Added Jul 3, 2018 - 7:36pm
Isn’t there an actual WB rule where commenters should read and their comments be pertinent to the subject/comments. 
 
No. A very good thing there isn't too.
 
I'm always amused to see those who signal patriotism invoke rules and laws that limit speech they find objectionable. Rah rah rah sis boom bah let freedom ring from sea to shining sea. 
 
I'm very pleased Autumn provides a platform where I can find the true pulse of the sick country you reside in. 
 
Thomas Sutrina Added Jul 3, 2018 - 7:38pm
TexasLynn this is true, " I think human nature gravitates toward a totalitarian system."  I addressed this since history absolutely shows this, however; history also shows revolutions against totalitarian systems when possible and often when not.  China had Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 (http://strangesounds.org/2017/12/at-least-10000-people-died-in-tiananmen-square-massacre-secretdocuments.
html   https://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/asia/item/27842-declassified-cable-death-toll-at-tiananmen-square-was-at-least-10-000?tmpl=component&print)  This and the jailing of an equal number is why a revolt never happened.
 
I said, "This will be accepted because humans by their nature are attracted to the list above.  They are also attracted to charismatic leaders and normally never get to hear the liberty pitch."  The other approach use is the use the Fabian socialist approach of using book keepers in government to slowly change the government towards totalitarianism.
TexasLynn Added Jul 3, 2018 - 9:02pm
Opher >> Jeff -
 
He meant me Jeff... relax.  It was an honest mistake.
 
Opher >> I have a qualification in Religion.
 
That means very little to me.  I assume this means you have a piece of paper.  You obviously don't have the knowledge or understanding (at least of Christianity).  Consider this a personal attack if you must.  It's just a statement of fact.
 
Here... is A Christian Primer.  It might help.
 
Opher >> I studied the bible and passed.
 
I took a few classes in biology in college and passed... I'm not a biologist.  Better yet... I don't arrogantly pretend to be "qualified" in biology when I should know better.
 
Opher >> Are you as qualified?
 
To teach Bible study?  To understand the basic tenets of Christianity?  More than most.  Much more so than you.
 
Do I have a piece of paper?  Only my name written in the Book of Life (if you know what that is).  If not, Google it and then pretend you do.  That worked so well with your last comments…
 
Opher >> It is very disappointing that you choose to attack me
 
No, I attacked your asinine (and not very accurate and not very "qualified") misapplication of scripture to support an argument it didn't support.  I even explained your error and how ironically the verse you quoted advocated for something (indoctrinating Children into Christ) you have many times argued as immoral and wrong.  DO YOU NOT SEE THE IRONY that YOU would just so happen to pick that verse to reveal your own ignorance and hypocrisy?
 
Imagine your indignation if I had explained ALL your errors.
 
Opher >> for accurate quotes and not address the hypocrisy they reveal.
 
They revealed ignorance and hypocrisy and arrogance, Opher... yours and little else.
 
I warned you up front, stating, "... but please be careful.  I have little patience for those who do not know Him, nay, don’t even believe in Him or His Father and assume they know better what his stance on an issue would be."
 
... and you, in your English arrogance, couldn't help yourself.  You still chose to step off that cliff.  You have only yourself to blame.
 
And I would bet, right now, as you read the last sentence of this comment are well prepared to do it again. 
 
We Texans may be stubborn but at lease we don't pile ignorant, arrogant, arses on top of it.
TexasLynn Added Jul 3, 2018 - 9:05pm
Jeffrey G >> No. A very good thing there isn't too.
 
I seem to remember Autumn chastising and even suspending Dino for what she perceived as not reading the actual article before commenting.  If someone remembers that, please chime in.  If not... I stand corrected.
 
And as I sated above.  Dino is a reading comprehension god in comparison to the likes of Michka.
 
The likes of Michka (like old John G) is little more than a dog taking a dump wherever he goes.  He add NOTHING to WB.  He is in fact a net drain on the site, and I would add drives good contributors and content away.  I admit I would just as soon he go add nothing somewhere else.
Bill H. Added Jul 3, 2018 - 9:33pm
 
TL - No, the solution will be a really big rock on a planned trajectory.
This is the way the machine works.
Michael B. Added Jul 3, 2018 - 9:49pm
I have a couple of comments here:
 
Most, if not all of the Latin American immigrant types in my area are strictly economic in origin. They come for jobs and money, and really don't give a rat's ass about very much else...I can't say I blame them. Some of them are genuinely interested in being Americans, but most seemingly would rather not. As far as the "asylum" seekers go, someone should tell them that, unless they come from Cuba, good luck pleading political asylum, as there's not much to choose from the rest of the Spanish-speaking world. Besides the Cuban Mariel Boatlift (surely a BOON to Miami and environs, lol), the various Communist regimes and insurgencies in Central America during the 80's and early 90's fueled the surge of immigration of people from those areas.
 
I knew a dude from Guatemala who told me that him and his brothers were harassed practically everywhere they went in Mexico, with the Mexicans calling them things like "wetback", "dishwasher", etc. The latest incidents in the FIFA World Cup involving Mexicans chanting homophobic slogans, making "chinky eyes" toward their Asian competitors, and other behavior definitely showcased the enlightenment, progressiveness, and tolerance of the Great Mexican People, lol!!!
 
Speaking of which, there are more and more Mexicans saying things like "I didn't cross the border, the border crossed me." That, and their apparent attitude that if they defeat all of the mechanisms of border security, they're home free, obviously doesn't improve the situation. It's almost like someone saying that if the police didn't stop them from robbing a bank and getting away with the money, they should be exempt from prosecution.
 
As far as crime goes, unfortunately for many of them, their greatest enemies are, ironically, their very own people. With very few exceptions, groups of immigrants are usually ruthlessly and viciously preyed upon by their erstwhile brethren.
 
TexasLynn Added Jul 3, 2018 - 10:33pm
Bill H >> No, the solution will be a really big rock on a planned trajectory.  This is the way the machine works.
 
So... we need to fret about overpopulation AND Global Warming AND giant meteors?  Anything else? How do you guys on the left even get up in the morning without blowing your brains out?
 
Bill... I would either find a religion OR eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow you die.  Pick one. :)
 
Me?  I’m good.
 
Opher, there was a biblical reference in the above if you missed it.
 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 
Thomas,
Thanks for the clarification... I think we're mostly on the same page as to the nature of man.  If there is no God, we're doomed as we should be.  Either way... I'm good with it. :)
 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 
Michael B,
Thanks for the firsthand experience concerning Latin immigrants.  I personally know quite a few and some of them are the most honest hard-working Americans I have ever had the pleasure to meet.  Some are not.  So... my assessment is that they are like a lot of the non-Latin people I have met in my life.
 
One thing you brought out is the inherent racism some display.  Since I would rather suffer a severe beating that watch soccer, I was not aware of the racist overtones from some Mexican fans.  That's too bad.  It is also too bad some here in the U.S. show such arrogance instead of gratitude.  It invites backlash that I hate to see.  The left and the "Dreamers" with their arrogant sense of entitlement exacerbate this problem.
 
I have no doubt that we need immigrants with the right attitude and ethic.  Unfortunately, the current system seeks and protects those without those qualities.  When you have a hole in the boat... step one is to plug the hole... then start bailing.
 
Michael B. Added Jul 3, 2018 - 10:52pm
@ TL - You're most welcome...I cannot improve upon your reply, especially the first paragraph of it.
James Travil Added Jul 3, 2018 - 10:55pm
I'm in overall general agreement with the article. My great grandfather immigrated LEGALLY from Scotland back in the mid 80's. He was in his 70's, in poor health, and certainly not rich but he persevered and followed the law. His love for America was his motivation, and in his last few years he accomplished his dream of becoming an American citizen. If he could do it, and do so legally, why not others? And we have always separated children from criminals, there is nothing new about this. Anyway that's this moderate's opinion. 
TexasLynn Added Jul 3, 2018 - 11:14pm
James,
Thank you for the comment.  I'm glad your grandfather achieved his dream and did it the right way.  God bless him. :P
 
Personally, I'm one of the biggest muts on the face of planet.  The only thing I have going for me is that I was born and raised in Texas.  You can ask for any more head-start than that. :)
Flying Junior Added Jul 4, 2018 - 2:34am
Rick,
 
I'm afraid that you were correct.  We are going to need that card back straight away and there is no recourse.  There is no court of appeal.  By your own confession, you have betrayed the hippy ideals of peace, love and brotherhood.
 
Tonight when you go to sleep, you will be visited by the ghost of Abbie Hoffman.  It is nothing more than ceremony.  Even if you put up a fight, he will get the card.  You will be humbled.  You can even change your ways and renounce the intolerance which has eaten away at your soul.
 
But you will never again be a hippy.  You have been ex-communicated from the faith.  Fare thee well, my friend.
Jeff Michka Added Jul 4, 2018 - 2:52am
LOL!!!!
opher goodwin Added Jul 4, 2018 - 3:26am
Tex - Sadly you cannot bring yourself to accept the hypocrisy of purporting to be Christian while supporting actions that clearly go against the very essence of the charity that Jesus taught. 
Callously ripping young children away from their parents in such distressing situations is not only inhuman it is most definitely unchristian. While you might support restrictions on immigration, as do I, it is not difficult to see how terribly wrong this policy is. I think that there is a very unpleasant, cold wind blowing through America at present. It condones things that should never be condoned.
Families should never be split unless there is a very very good reason and children should never be used this way to frighten other desperate people from coming. The policy is simply nasty.
I'm not a Christian but my morality tells me in no uncertain terms that this is simply wrong. So much for religion being the wellspring of morality. It clearly isn't. Christians merely select the texts they want to support whatever immoral actions they wish to carry out. Obviously studying the bible does not instill the morality that Jesus preached.
Flying Junior Added Jul 4, 2018 - 3:40am
It is not without some pride that I note that it was a Federal Judge in San Diego, a female, if I am not mistaken, who really did stick it to the man!
Luther Wu Added Jul 4, 2018 - 10:44am
Jeffry Gilbert,
"I'm very pleased Autumn provides a platform where I can find the true pulse of the sick country you reside in (sic)."
-
Then, in which sick country do you reside?
 
There are more forums than easily counted, where one can get the
pulse of any subject. Enough of your pretense.
How unfortunate that you continue to use this forum to berate the US.
Bill H. Added Jul 4, 2018 - 3:36pm
 
TL - I suspect there are many ways to ignore and hide from the inevitable.
I should be the last to care, as I have no children. I have always felt that humans were put here (by whatever means one wants to believe) to care for the Earth and it's creatures by using our brains. Obviously, this idea backfired, and we are now the most dangerous and destructive creature on the planet. I am also totally disappointed that those who espouse to be "followers of Jesus" and believe in God seem to be the ones who could care less about the condition of our planet and helping their fellow man.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 4, 2018 - 7:27pm
Jeffrey is an angry conservative libertine, who has fits of profanity.  
 
I think hes ill, and I hope he recovers, but his nasty attitude isn’t helping his chances.  
 
Resentment and bitterness are like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die.
 
Bill is a typical envirofascist.  A total libertine but wants to lecture others on having babies.  Lol. 
 
And Muchkrap with his usual verbal diarrhea.  He has an awful bad case of it.
TexasLynn Added Jul 4, 2018 - 10:01pm
Sorry... for the delayed replies... Enjoyed the 4th with my family.  God bless America and the men and women who died to make her free.  May their sacrifice endure another generation.  Amen!
TexasLynn Added Jul 4, 2018 - 10:02pm
Opher >> Sadly you cannot bring yourself to accept the hypocrisy of purporting to be Christian
 
We (and particularly me) are not perfect... just forgiven.
 
Opher >> while supporting actions that clearly go against the very essence of the charity that Jesus taught.
 
Says the guy who does not know Christ, does not believe in Christ, and despises (yes, despises) those who do.
 
Opher >>  Callously ripping young children away from their parents in such distressing situations is not only inhuman it is most definitely unchristian.
 
Opher... you are good condemnation with generalities... how about a few specifics.  I don't expect you to provide them, because you NEVER do... but out of respect, I'll give the opportunity.
 
What would you do?  SPECIFICIALLY?
 
Question: Would you simply catch the illegal immigrants and release them into the general population if they have kids?
 
Question: Would you find a way to house the children with the parents as they await processing?
 
Question: What about children of citizens arrested for other crimes?  If you're consistent... a child becomes a get out of jail free card for all shoplifters and other petty criminals.
 
Opher >> While you might support restrictions on immigration, as do I, it is not difficult to see how terribly wrong this policy is.
 
It is for leftist, Opher, because you don't bother to THINK it through.  You go into knee-jerk compassion mode.
 
Opher >> I think that there is a very unpleasant, cold wind blowing through America at present. It condones things that should never be condoned.
 
Yes, and its name is progressivism. There was a socialist who won an election the other day.  Cold winds indeed.
 
Opher >> Obviously studying the bible does not instill the morality that Jesus preached.
 
You don't even have an inkling of what Jesus preached (unless you Google it).  You just can’t help yourself, can you?  (That was rhetorical.)
 
If I might say, YOU, Opher, are THE most arrogant, self-absorbed, amoral, SOB I have ever encountered.  Forgive me if I don't take moral direction (or correction) from the likes of your pompous ass.
TexasLynn Added Jul 4, 2018 - 10:04pm
Bill >> I suspect there are many ways to ignore and hide from the inevitable.
 
Some better than others.
 
Bill >> I should be the last to care, as I have no children.
 
Hopefully you have other family and friends to ease the journey and bring you joy!
 
Bill >> I have always felt that humans were put here (by whatever means one wants to believe) to care for the Earth and it's creatures by using our brains.
 
Who?  What?... put us here to do that... and why was that the purpose they had?  It's a genuine question.  Why do you "feel" this to be true? 
 
I mean, I can relate in the sense of faith in something with some higher purpose.  I've just never, personally, seen the logic in going with feelings.  I've never found them to be very reliable.
 
Bill >> Obviously, this idea backfired, and we are now the most dangerous and destructive creature on the planet.
 
OK... I don't see that... but I can see how someone on the left can and thus would always be disappointed.  The left is always searching for a man-made social/political/environmental utopia.  I don’t see that as a problem as long as one realizes that goal is a fantasy and such a thing is not in our (mankind’s) nature or power.
 
In your defense, we Christians are searching for a utopia as well, we just realize that it’s foolish to believe that man will ever achieve it and put our faith in God to make it happen.  On the plus side, God promised He would make it happen.
 
Both paths require faith.  Looking at the current world and history… there was never a chance I would ever logically put that commodity in mankind.
 
Bill >> I am also totally disappointed that those who espouse to be "followers of Jesus" and believe in God seem to be the ones who could care less about the condition of our planet and helping their fellow man.
 
Sorry to let you down Bill.  Just to bring you the perspective of one of those who has failed you.  Our God teaches us not to "lay up our treasure" on this world.  That this world and everything in it is temporary.
 
That doesn't mean that we are not to be good stewards and help our fellow men, BUT we don't worship the Earth or see her even remotely as the end goal. 
 
As for as overpopulation, and resource depletion, and "climate change" and everything else..., I'd be a lot less skeptical if the solution wasn't ALWAYS less freedom, global government, collectivism and socialism.
 
As for as helping our fellow man... we (Christians) do fall short, we are the worst... except for everybody else.
 
In Christ means, not perfect... just forgiven. :)
Leroy Added Jul 4, 2018 - 10:47pm
I followed the legal process.  I expect others to do the same.  I have no sympathy for the border hoppers.  They should immediately be returned--no judge, no jury.  I suppose unaccompanied kids need special consideration to get them home safely.  For those who follow the legal process to enter, keeping the family together is not an issue as I understand it.
TexasLynn Added Jul 5, 2018 - 8:06am
Leroy >> They should immediately be returned--no judge, no jury.
 
That's pretty well what other nations do... including Mexico.  If and when Mexico thinks any of these people are going to stay in Mexico, back they go.
 
I'm 100% with you, though.  If you want to apply for asylum, do it the way it was designed to work... at a point of entry.
 
If we did this... we wouldn't have to do it for long.  The message would get out and the flow would reduce to a trickle.  If you think about it; it's the cheapest most effective means of solving this problem.
 
Leroy >> For those who follow the legal process to enter, keeping the family together is not an issue as I understand it.
 
It's not.  No law has been broken so no need to process or incarcerate the parents.
 
BUT as the original article states; this invented hysteria is simply a means to an end for the left.  There real purpose is the exact opposite of what we just described.
 
The left seeks to import of as many immigrants as possible with little to no vetting (legal or illegal does not matter).
 
Jeffry Gilbert Added Jul 5, 2018 - 9:42am
Enough of your pretense.


 
No pretense. Those who have been around for longer than you have known that my hatred and disgust are both reasonable and decades old. 
 
 
How unfortunate that you continue to use this forum to berate the US.
 
What's unfortunate is you making the mistake of taking it personally. Think about it, some old retired guy on a remote beach in fuckin' paradise has you upset over bullshit. Says a lot more about you than it does about me.
 
Carry on waving that red white and blue while that disgusting Lee Greenwood song plays on a continuous loop in your head if it makes you feel better.
 
Throw in a few RAH RAH RAH SIS BOOM BAH WE'RE NUMBER ONE USA USA USA's for good measure. 
Rick W. Added Jul 5, 2018 - 1:02pm
Flying Junior>I'm afraid that you were correct.  We are going to need that card back 
 
HAHA thanks. Yep, I've got that coming. 
 
The one hippie-ish thing I hold on to, in this scenario: We need to recognize that our American fingerprints are all over Central America. These countries didn't collapse because they're dumb or lazy or inherently corrupt. We funded, trained, and managed their armies, and supported their puppet governments, throughout decades-long civil wars. Both Carter and Reagan essentially told them, "Hey, do what you gotta do to stop the commies, and we'll look the other way." This led to mass slaughter of unarmed civilians, and the natural growth of gangs in the vacuum of a legitimate government -- though, for the record, MS-13 started in LA, not El Salvador (they had to form a gang to protect themselves from the primarily Mexican and Black gangs). The Central American economy collapsed (El Salvador doesn't even have a currency anymore), and that kind of mess can't be recovered from quickly. 
 
People fleeing these countries have a legitimate fear of being murdered. You either join the gang (and die), or refuse (and die), or quit the gang and flee (and, if returned, die). El Salvador has a murder rate 20x the USA's. 
 
But, that doesn't mean we can easily absorb the entire country. I think if we had better relationships with Latin American partners, we could coordinate some kind of shared-burden thing. But that'll be impossible until the next administration -- if it's even possible then.
Kurt Bresler Added Jul 5, 2018 - 8:28pm
Lynn>>>>I believe we should invade South American and Caribbean countries and eliminate the shit-hole countries in the Americas
Jeffry Gilbert Added Jul 5, 2018 - 9:11pm
>I believe we should invade South American and Caribbean countries and eliminate the shit-hole countries in the Americas
 
Because nothing says Christian values quite like destroying a village to save it. 
 
TexasLynn Added Jul 5, 2018 - 10:05pm
Kurt >> I believe we should invade South American and Caribbean countries and eliminate the shit-hole countries in the Americas
 
Can't say that I agree.  While it is my hope that these poor souls can throw off the shackles of corruption and socialism; it is my belief that they must be the ones who fight for their freedom.  I don't think it's is something we can give them in that manner.  People just handed something don't value it like someone who has shed sweat and blood for it.
 
I do support the U.S. intelligently watching for opportunities to give the oppressed the means to win their freedom.
 
My point is that these are shit-hole countries because they are run by very evil and corrupt men.  When someone hopes that we can work with these people in the future, they are being naive.  All these tyrants are hoping for is that we are gullible enough to send "aid" that they can funnel to their secret bank accounts.
 
We should never send money to such corrupt states.  Any aid should come with strings and accountability out the wazoo.
Flying Junior Added Jul 5, 2018 - 10:58pm
Thank you for your thoughts, Rick.
 
I'm going out on a limb here.
 
Decriminalize marijuana and cocaine in the U.S.  Control U.S. manufacture of weapons sent to Central America.  Stop guns moving south across the border dead in its tracks.
 
If we could institute meaningful job creation in the U.S. and get more young people into colleges and vocational schools, maybe we could reduce this insidious demand for narcotics.
 
We're about fifty years too late on most of this stuff.  It is difficult to look around and see all of the destruction that has been wrought.  But the best strategy is not to just keep on doing the same thing that has led to this dire situation.  If we continue the same broken system into the future things will only get worse.
TexasLynn Added Jul 5, 2018 - 11:57pm
FJ >> Thank you for your thoughts, Rick.  I'm going out on a limb here.
 
Nope.... Noooo... Unh Unh...  You two need to stay separated.
 
It's a trap Rick!  Like the time you got beat up because you thought your were a libertarian!
Flying Junior Added Jul 6, 2018 - 3:49am
Hope y'all had a happy Fourth.  I was lucky enough to be invited to the fireworks display at Poway High School.  I didn't see very many high-schoolers, as the only ones that attended drove themselves in their own cars.  It's too far out of town for kids with bikes.
 
But it was the only time in my life I have ever seen six or seven hundred school-age children with their several hundred-odd parents having a time.  It did my soul good to just see an America where nothing was really wrong at all.  It was the Fourth of July.  We were Americans out to see fireworks.
 
My family arrived in two cars.  Our daughter showed us how to walk past the classrooms and negotiate the breezeways and staircases.  So we make camp right on the fifty-yard line.  As it turned out, everybody that was closer to the other side of the field probably needed earplugs.  The fireworks were shot off somewhere within one hundred feet of the other out-of-bounds line.
 
It's fun, because whatever direction you look there are little kids of all ages running around, playing ball, what have you.  So we get settled in just in time for the Chicken Dance.  Beaks, wings, tails...  clap-clap-clap-clap.  So we get up to dance and turn in circles.  I break it up to set down and Mrs. Junior attempts to aggravate my son-in-law to dance.
 
Inscrutable as Benny Goodman.
 
So the next time I look up, it's the Macarena.  I'm like, who remembers this dance?  They danced it at my wedding.  Everybody is turning the four corners of a square.  The little girls seem to know the nuances better than I ever did.  Even little four-year-old boys seem to know the Macarena.  I start to realize that they teach all of the little kids to dance in school as I notice there are more people dancing than sitting around watching.  So the play every famous dance mix from the last twenty years.  (PG-rated)  I'm scratching my head while everybody dances to the Y-M-C-A.  Every kid knows all of the moves.  Next it was, Otis Day and the Knights with "You Make Me Want to Shout."
 
I am guessing they had something like ten or twelve outdoor, two-way JBLs as a P.A.  So everybody including 99 out of 100 moms are just dancing like crazy.  Finally it's almost 9:00 and the last song is, Gangnam Style.  Madness.  I'm so sick of hearing the clomp-clomp of disco.  And the fireworks begin.
 
I was about a quarter mile away from the first fireworks display at the La Jolla Cove in the late 1980s.  I was the first guy to jam my car in park and sit down with the rest of the hippies in middle of the street on Coast Boulevard.  But that's another story.
 
I had never been so close to fireworks.  We're talking maybe two hundred feet away.  We settled in.  The most popular fireworks shoot up in the air maybe a hundred feet or more and then explode.  But each missile again explodes a second time for several tens of smaller tails.  The biggest fireworks shoot towards the heavens with what looks like two squirrel tails fired from a cannon.  After the squirelly tails make their way into the atmosphere...  Boom!  There are other exciting types of fireworks which are hard to describe.  There are fireworks that make a secondary noise as all of the secondary explosives go off.  Some make little twizzlers that fill the night sky.  It was awesome.  I felt a wave of patriotism that I could not deny.  It's also a little bit romantic.
 
Going home was like a rock festival in 1978, but everybody was sober.  God bless you all.
TexasLynn Added Jul 6, 2018 - 10:03am
FJ,
Great story.  Inspiring.  Thanks.
Rick W. Added Jul 6, 2018 - 11:24am
FJ>Decriminalize marijuana and cocaine in the U.S. Control U.S. manufacture of weapons sent to Central America. Stop guns moving south across the border dead in its tracks.
 
I'm 100% with you on decriminalizing weed. I'd have to think about cocaine and other drugs. I don't know much about how American guns travel south.
 
FJ>I felt a wave of patriotism that I could not deny.  It's also a little bit romantic.
 
That's cool. I still put my hand over my heart and sing the anthem at ballgames (which I don't go to that often, but I did see a Mariners-Red Sox game recently, which was awesome). It's not necessarily for what America is, but for what it can be, if we actually get together. I think we definitely need more communal rituals, more social activities, etc. We're all far too isolated. It's making us terrified of each other, and a little crazy. (I just got back from serving breakfast at a homeless shelter with my kid. It's a great mental reset-button.)
 
TL>It's a trap Rick!  Like the time you got beat up because you thought your were a libertarian!
 
Yeah, I admit it -- I just like Gary Johnson (who I voted for, once). Depending on how you want to measure such things, even Justice Kennedy has been called a libertarian (by the left). 
 
I'll do TexasLynn a favor and try to reconnect all this to the topic he started with: Being in favor of separating parents from kids when they cross the border, for whatever reason (legality, efficacy, sending a message).
 
Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's right, and just because something is illegal doesn't mean it's wrong. In the 20th century, it was legal to put Japanese-Americans in concentration camps, and illegal to brew your own beer.
 
I think we can do better with immigrant processing. I'll even give a hat-tip to Ted Cruz -- he was correct to say we need more funding for federal judges, to manage all these asylum cases. What the Trump administration is doing may be legal, but quickly putting kids into the care of the Office of Refugee Resettlement (the federal foster care system) without giving the parents a reliable way to track their kids -- which is what they're doing, right now -- is monstrous. 
Gregory S. McNeill Added Jul 6, 2018 - 1:05pm
TexasLynn,
You are pathetic! Separating children from their parents is wrong!! What our nation is doing makes America look bad to the world!! If those children's parents were involved in criminial behavior, that is another story. Why separate them when they are running from oppression from other nations? They have a right to live like us in America. 
If you are a parent and a Christian and support this stupidity, SHAME ON YOU!!! Real Christians don't support this at all. This action shames America and we don't learn from history. 
TexasLynn Added Jul 6, 2018 - 2:46pm
Gregory M., Where to begin.  I guess, thank you for your comment.  I value even the most uninformed and reactionary of comments.  It helps me clarify, and educate (if not he commenter, then others who read).
 
Gregory M. >> You are pathetic!
 
Wow… Straight to a personal attack, huh; a sure sign that rational and reasonable discussion is probably not your forte.
 
Gregory M. >> Separating children from their parents is wrong!!
 
Did you read the article or just the title (and then blindly recall all the propaganda you've been fed from the left)?
 
I specifically said (and this is the point of the whole article), "For the record, when parents/guardians are negligent or about to be incarcerated... I support "separation".
 
Are you saying you don't support separation in these circumstances?  If so please elaborate.
 
I suspect, what you are really saying is (and this too is found in the article) YOU are far not incarcerating illegal immigrants at all.  If illegal immigrants have kids, YOU believe that should equate to a get out of jail free card.  I could be wrong… you may think ALL illegal immigrants should be treated in such a manner.
 
You're probably much like Opher Goodwin.  Your very good getting all huffy and judgmental when looking at an issue from high altitudes, but try and get you guys down in the weeds with a few details... and you won't do it... you can't compete at that level. 
 
If I'm wrong, please feel free to prove it.  I'll ask you the same questions OG ignored.  Knock yourself out...
 
Question: Would you simply catch the illegal immigrants and release them into the general population if they have kids?
 
Question: Would you find a way to house the children with the parents as they await processing?
 
Question: What about children of citizens arrested for other crimes?  If you're consistent... a child becomes a get out of jail free card for all shoplifters and other petty criminals.
 
Gregory M. >> What our nation is doing makes America look bad to the world!!
 
The "world" looks down on us for a lot of things we are doing, a lot of it the right thing to do.  Much of the World (like Canada and Mexico) have much more draconian immigration policies than this... does the "world" look down on them?  The "world" seems a bit... hypocritical, don't you think.
 
A bit of advice... if the "world" loves and agrees with you, you had better re-evaluate what you're doing.
 
Gregory M. >> If those children's parents were involved in criminial behavior, that is another story.
 
Ummmm... Greg... that, again, is kind of the whole point of the article.  These children's parents ARE involved in "criminal" behavior.  Crossing the border is against the law, it is illegal.  And the rule of law says that those who commit this crime are incarcerated.  The law does not carve out special circumstances for those with children.
 
Now, I do understand the source of some of your confusion so I'll try and explain it to you.  In a good republic, we apply the law equally to all.  When we decide the law is not correct we change the law, through the prescribed process.
 
Now (and I'm sure this is why your confused), in a banana republic the rule of law means nothing and the depot just does whatever he wants.  Our last commander in chief decided he would go the banana republic route and several issues (this being one of them).  He's gone now... we're back to following the rule of law.
 
Now, I suspect (like all good leftist) you simply think this should not be the law, therefore we should just ignore it and go back to catch and release.  All I can say to that is that it is a shame that our school systems don't teach basic civics anymore.
 
Gregory M.>> Why separate them when they are running from oppression from other nations?
 
Because when they “ran” they did not follow our laws for entry into this nation AND the law for applying for asylum.
TexasLynn Added Jul 6, 2018 - 2:47pm
Gregory M. >> They have a right to live like us in America.
 
Wow... just wow.  Do you really believe that?  The statement is just asinine.  Of course, they don't have that right.  Only American citizens have that right (assuming by "America" you mean the United States).
 
Case in point.  Do you think YOU have the "right" to just waltz into Canada or Mexico and just start living like you were born there?  The idea is laughable, it's so idiotic.
 
Gregory M. >> If you are a parent and a Christian and support this stupidity, SHAME ON YOU!!! Real Christians don't support this at all.
 
Uhhhhh... another one.  Please just do a search (of this post) on Opher and read his comments and my replies.  If you think you are more "qualified" than he, knock yourself out.  But be careful... google searches won't cut it.
 
I will note that it is interesting that you mention the “world” in one breath and Jesus in another. It would cause “a Christian” to recall Jesus warning His people…
 
John 15:18-19 (NIV) "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you."
 
… and they would know it by heart, by instinct… not by google.
 
Gregory M. >> This action shames America and we don't learn from history.
 
Why do I get the feeling this was just a throwaway line with no meaning or context behind it?  What exact historical events are you referring to that relates to this scenario?
 
The appropriate history that comes to my mind would be the Roman Empire allowing more and more barbarians across their borders... before their ultimate fall.
 
Maybe you had something different in mind... if anything.
James E. Unekis Added Jul 6, 2018 - 2:56pm
TexasLynn,
I found this an exception article.  Well done.
 
The liberals are only interested in destroying our borders in hopes of increasing the number of democratic voters.  Not that illegal immigrants should vote, but they do.
 
The focus on children is simply a side-show.
 
You can safely ignore Jeff.   He recently decided, based on a simple statement in a reply, my whole belief system, and then took me to task for the beliefs he attributed to me.
 
It was funny too since my reply was largely supportive. 
TexasLynn Added Jul 6, 2018 - 3:23pm
James U >> I found this an exception article.  Well done.
 
Thank you.
 
James U >> The liberals are only interested in destroying our borders in hopes of increasing the number of democratic voters.
 
That is the main reason they want immigration as open as possible.  As I stated... diluting the culture is also part of it.  Though they have made great progress is destroying all teaching of civics... they can't unlearn it from those of us who do know it, therefore they've decided they need to import more of those who don't know what our founding principles are.
 
James U >> Not that illegal immigrants should vote, but they do.
 
We're not ever going to convince them (the left) of this.  They don't want to know.
 
James U >> The focus on children is simply a side-show.
 
Exactly... Riley above nailed it concerning this point.
 
James U >> You can safely ignore Jeff.  
 
Really!? :)
 
Michka and I have been at odds since day one.  My most popular post, to date, is the one in which HE was the subject and villain.
 
A Writer Beat Fairy Tale
 
Who can say what makes Jeff, Jeff.  My current hypothesis is he is a burnt-out drug-addled moron.  He just reminds me too much of the meth-heads around here who don't have the brain cells left to construct simple sentences together.
 
Ignoring him is the best policy for all.  Don't read him, don't acknowledge him... just let him take his pathetic little dumps and move on.
TexasLynn Added Jul 6, 2018 - 4:21pm
~“. _^_ "~
~“ (____) ”~
~“(______) ”~
“ (________) ”~
(____________) ”
This has been another Jeff Michka production.
TexasLynn Added Jul 6, 2018 - 4:25pm
You can't help but poke and stir the #$@% every now and then. :P
James E. Unekis Added Jul 6, 2018 - 5:45pm
TexasLynn,
Your fairytale is just too funny. 
 
 
 
James E. Unekis Added Jul 6, 2018 - 5:47pm
Jeff,
Might I suggest a little anger management?
Honestly I've seen you write better than this in other posts.
James Travil Added Jul 6, 2018 - 7:07pm
The thing that gets me is that this policy of separating children from their parents of illegal immigrants was originally from GW Bush, but it was Obama who brought it to the standard it is today, not Trump. Where was all the outrage back then from the corporate mainstream media outlets and the Democratic Party elites? 
TexasLynn Added Jul 6, 2018 - 9:03pm
Deleted a lot of Michka $#@%... but don't worry... I've paraphrased it here. :)
 
~“. _^_ "~
~“ (____) ”~
~“(______) ”~
“ (________) ”~
(____________) ”
 
Did you save any of it Michka... or do you need to retype it?
 
I encourage everybody to keep the little inverted baggies on hand.  You never know when a Michka will squat on your post. :)
TexasLynn Added Jul 6, 2018 - 9:08pm
James,
Pretty well any rational person sees this for what it is; a political gotcha game.  Hypocrisy has never bothered the left... though it's advantageous they have the main stream media to cover that up on a regular basis.
 
If it had been about children they would be a little more consistent.  But it's not.  And Trump Derangement Syndrome exacerbates the hysteria.
TexasLynn Added Jul 6, 2018 - 10:41pm
That's not the same as you had before... I guess you didn't save it...  Keep typin'... :)
Riley Brown Added Jul 7, 2018 - 1:19pm
OPHER regarding How about 'Suffer the little children to come unto me' or did you think it was just 'suffer the little children'? 
 
Why do  you think no one is complaining when the exact same thing happens to US citizens and they are separated from their kids?
 
Explain why we should have a double standard just for people who come here illegally?
TexasLynn Added Jul 7, 2018 - 6:03pm
Riley B >> OPHER ... why do you think... explain...
 
Riley, Thanks for trying... I've never seen Opher do the work needed to get down into the details and really think through his positions.  He's a bit picture guy.
Flying Junior Added Jul 8, 2018 - 1:21am
Whether or not this policy began with Obama or Trump, it must be opposed.  I just heard about the defense contractor, MVM, and their black ops hidden sites for children in Phoenix.  Full disclosure, this company has been around since 2014.
 
Makes sense.  Fuck Arizona and Joe Arpaio.
 
Little kids are secreted into windowless buildings where they are not legally allowed to provide sleeping facilities or kitchens.  So the contractors modify the pens to keep the children in.  No kitchens.  No showers.  Just toilets and sinks in short supply.  A few offices.  Maybe the kids are forced to spend nights or even several days.  Officially it is just a holding place along the way where kids are to spend a few hours in detention.
 
The kids are brought in but apparently only secreted away under the cover of night.  Vendors bring in juice and snacks.  No hot food.
 
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/07/06/family-separation-contractor-housed-kids-unlicensed-building-report-says/765070002/
 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 8, 2018 - 1:36am
If you care so much about illegal kids, Flying Junior, then why aren’t you saying anything about the 60 million American babies murdered in the womb in the last 45 years, hypocrite? 
 
What kind of degenerate bothers about the temporary separation of children from their parents, with the motive to end damaging illegal immigration, but is silent about the full scale butchery of American babies, who will never take a breath?  
 
Selfish liberal men, that’s the kind.   
James Travil Added Jul 8, 2018 - 1:48am
Flying Junior writes: "Whether or not this policy began with Obama.." It did, and here is the proof (from a liberal black woman incidentally): “Laura Bush and US Liberal Media’s Lies and Propaganda Driven By the Deep State #ImmigrantChildren” https://medium.com/@politicspeach/laura-bush-and-us-liberal-medias-lies-and-propaganda-driven-by-the-deep-state-immigrantchildren-40bca6f9d0e4 #hypocrisy
James Travil Added Jul 8, 2018 - 1:52am
For those who don't like to click on links, here is an excerpt:
For the first time in modern American history (Repeat: this was the Obama Administration), the government decides to detain all Central American women and children seeking asylum in the U.S., instead of allowing them to live freely until their days in court. The policy change is intended to send a message to anyone else seeking refuge from a plague of gang violence below our southern border. And to implement this draconian proposal, the government (Obama Administration) awards a well-connected private prison company with a $1 billion no-bid contract — one that promises to pay the firm $20 million a month, no matter how few migrants its facility is responsible for housing at a given time. Then federal courts rule that this policy of mass detention isn’t actually legal. But the contract is already signed, and so the Corrections Corporation of America collects millions in taxpayer money to maintain a nearly empty detention center. This may sound like the kind of cruel, incompetent policy-making you’d expect from Donald Trump’s administration. But it’s actually the work of Barack Obama’s. Per the Washington Post: ~ Eric Levitz — NewYork Mag
TexasLynn Added Jul 8, 2018 - 7:35am
FJ, You’re the third leftist to look at this from a high altitude (in this post) and say it needs to stop... but NEVER offer what should replace it.  (Opher Goodwin and  Gregory S. McNeill were asked for specifics and all we got was crickets chirping, not that I expected any differently).  Even Riley Brown tried to no avail.
 
The point of this post is.  Children should be separated from parents when parents are going through the criminal process (regardless of citizen/non-citizen or crime).  I will grant you that it is valid to look at how the children are treated and fix anything we see there.  Yes, absolutely... but the fact remains children should be separated from criminal parents.
 
But back to what the left lacks… Details.  Care to provide any?  You could start by answering a few direct questions...
 
Question: Do you agree or disagree that people illegally crossing our border should be processed for the crime committed.
 
Question: Do you agree or disagree that children should not be part of that process.
 
Question: Would you simply catch the illegal immigrants and release them into the general population if they have kids?
 
Question: Would you find a way to house the children with the parents as they await processing?
 
Question: What about children of citizens arrested for other crimes?  If you're consistent... a child becomes a get out of jail free card for all shoplifters and other petty criminals.
 
I await answers or crickets.  Both will speak volumes.  As for Opher and Gregory... there is obviously no substance to their positions.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 8, 2018 - 9:45am
Hey Tex - Always enjoy reading your stuff. Reading through this thread I am reminded of a scene from High Plains Drifter. Our man Clint as "the man with no name" runs everyone out of the local inn and is chastised by the town pastor for casting his "brothers and sisters" out into the street.
 
Clint turns to him and asks "Do you really consider these people your brothers and sisters?"
 
The pastor: "Yes. Yes I do."
 
To which Clint replies, "Well then, you won't mind taking them all at your house"
Jeff Michka Added Jul 8, 2018 - 1:35pm
Was that before or after "your man Clint" was talking gibberish to an empty chair, Domesday book?
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 8, 2018 - 1:48pm
Your the authority here, Jeff. Why don't you tell us. What's the matter? Getting tired of trolling the same old same old around here? Ahhh! You missed me, didn't you!
TexasLynn Added Jul 8, 2018 - 4:05pm
FJ >> Whether or not this policy began with Obama...
 
It does matter in that is shows the duplicity of the left; something that should always be brought to the forefront so that we know when an issue is real and when it is invented.
 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 
James T >> It did, and here is the proof...
 
Thanks for the links James.  I for one have no problem following them; we are on the internet after all.  Just understand that you're posting them for the choir.  Actual facts and information get in the way of some (leftist) arguments... best to leave those stones un-turned.
 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 
TBH >> Hey Tex - Always enjoy reading your stuff.
 
As I do your stuff. :) Glad to see you back.
 
TBH >> Reading through this thread I am reminded of a scene from High Plains Drifter... "Well then, you won't mind taking them all at your house".
 
Love that movie (and actor)... isn't that the one where he leaves their knickers blowing in the wind at the end.
 
It's like when all the snobs in the gated communities scream about letting anybody and everybody in the country AND reducing the incarceration rate.  Yeah... that works great for people behind big walls with personal security guards.  Oh, yeah... and while they're at it, they would like to disarm us rabble as well.
 
I'm all for immigration... very controlled and very vetted immigration.  This all bets are off stuff is bullshit; but THAT is the issue that some are pretending is not part of all this debate.  When people start hysterically screaming "Do it for the kids"... it not about the kids.
 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 
FJ, still waiting on those details with baited breath…
James E. Unekis Added Jul 8, 2018 - 5:54pm
FJ,
I don't agree with your response except about Joe Arpaio.  Almost everyone I know has committed a felony, knowingly or not, and could have served time.   Those in prison end up in cages and are electronically hobbled in looking for employment, for the rest of their lives.  They have received their punishment.  Arpaio, who almost ended up there himself, looks for ways to torment prisoners.  He is a sadist and worse than many that he delights in tormenting.
 
See, liberals and conservatives can find some common ground.  Lol.
Jeff Michka Added Jul 8, 2018 - 8:27pm
You are the same egotistical piece of crap, Domesday book.  You weren't missed by anyone but you here.  Now you can suck up to TraitorLynn, the Texas confederate who get so upset about people not "respecting" the flag and national anthem of the country he wants broken up.  Maybe he can confess his hypocrisy to you, his good buddy.
Flying Junior Added Jul 9, 2018 - 12:43am
Common ground indeed Unekis.  Thank you for that.  Arpaio is a rat.  It speaks volumes that Trump sees him as one of his own.  Arapaio brings to mind the humiliations suffered by political prisoners in less enlightened countries throughout history.  Perhaps Trump longs to punish and torture his political opponents in such a way?  Maybe he is just shoring up the hard-right in Arizona.
Flying Junior Added Jul 9, 2018 - 12:59am
I'll bite, Lynn.  Thank you for making me think about my position.
 
I think that the individuals and families that have ventured north from their homes through Mexico only to face the harsh deserts of California, Arizona and Texas deserve refugee status and nothing less.
 
U.S. led wars of aggression in Iraq, Afghanistan and throughout the region have led to millions of refugees that have been accepted by Europe.  This crisis has led to deep divisions within the continent even leading up to the huge mistake of Brexit.  Egypt and Jordan accepted most of the Iraqis that were forced to flee their ancestral homes.
 
How many Iraqi refugees did we accept?  IDK.  Ten thousand?
 
It seems to me that the least we can do is accept the refugees from the wars of our creation in our own corner of the world.  The drug cartels and the crisis of murders and gangs in Central America, Mexico and points south is entirely caused by U.S. demand for illicit drugs, a seemingly unlimited supply of money to pay for these drugs and ready weapons with no true oversight as to their disposition.  U.S. guns.  U.S. $$.  And U.S. drug consumers fueling the entire crisis to feed their addictions and have exciting warrior weekends.  U.S. narcotics addicts forced to look towards Mexican black tar heroin to feed their self-hatred and despair.
 
And make no mistake.  It is a war.  The misplaced war on drugs that Elvis and Nixon dreamed about is full-blown today.  The stakes are high.
 
Yes.  Let's accept these families of immigrants as refugees and welcome them to the U.S.A.  Maybe they can teach us all a lesson in humility.
Flying Junior Added Jul 9, 2018 - 2:12am
Lynn,
 
I'm checked out for a couple of days.  Peace.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 9, 2018 - 5:39am
Oh Mich....that hurts, man. Hold on just a sec......RRRRRRRR-Grunt! RRRRRRR-grunt. 
 
Sorry, I really tried, but I just can't give a shit

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