IS EVERYBODY GOING CRAZY ?

NO PICTURE THIS TIME DUE TO A LACK OF IMAGINATION

 

Man man.

 

When I joined WB 4 years ago we had reasonable people here, some occasional rants for sure, but that's ok. I mean, emotions, right ? When somebody has no emotions anymore, he's fucked.

 

But now ?

 

All I see is trolls who simply display POLITICAL PROPAGANDA.

 

Hail Trump ! The left arm please. The right one is still reserved for Adolf. And then....people still talk about Hillary Clinton. Huh ? I mean she went already downhill, so WTF ? Now, I'm one of the rare Europeans here that US hardliners couldn't scare off and I don't intend to be. Why ?

 

Because the people of the United States (no, not "America", once again) need to hear voices from people which are not THERE. Even when you don't give a fuck about them NOW. There are Asians, Africans and other people who want to be heard and respected. And a McDonald's burger doesn't promise eternal happiness, right ? Or.......LOL

 

But I still have hope that SOME of the 325 million US citizens realize that the world is not to be divided into "left" and ""right" (hmmmm....does anybody notice the underlining meaning of "right" ?) but that we all have to work together. PLEASE STOP THAT PSEUDO-IDEOLOGICAL SHIT AND GET YOUR GEAR TOGETHER IN ORDER TO FIGHT FOR A COMMON GOAL. Which is peace and a place for everyone.

 

When WE fight, we fuck up the future of our children. At the same time we say we want the best for them...

 

Huh ? Humans....

Comments

Katharine Otto Added Jul 5, 2018 - 12:32pm
Stone,
I'm glad my compatriots have not run you off.  I don't like the fixation on left-right, conservative-liberal, us vs. them, either.  All this bickering is de-vitalizing and reveals how immature we are, as a culture (?) and a world.  
 
I try not to use the word "fight," simply because "fighting for peace," for instance, is a contradiction in terms.  When you fight fire with fire, you only get larger fires.  Also, when people waste time and energy fighting, they accomplish nothing useful.
 
Your posts are always refreshing to read, and your justifiable anger over US-America's self-delusions mirrors my own.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 5, 2018 - 12:37pm
Katharine
 
Thanks a lot. I try to make people understand that I'm not against US-Americans, but they take it personal, as to defend their corrupt corporatocracy which they at the same time bitch about. 
 
Really I'm lost. Patriotism may be at times a good time when it comes to defense by an outside enemy which wants to invade, but why defend some parasite billionaire clubs which don't do anything for the people ??
Stone-Eater Added Jul 5, 2018 - 12:38pm
not "a good time". I mean a good method. Sorry. Jeez :-)
opher goodwin Added Jul 5, 2018 - 12:41pm
Stone - I thoroughly agree. All this nasty knee-jerk garbage prevents any real discussion on issues. People don't even read the posts before they react. It's all too emotional and needs to be a lot more cerebral.
It seems to me that something unpleasant is happening in America that has released all this hate and fury. 
Where have all these extremists come from?
Bill H. Added Jul 5, 2018 - 12:45pm
SEF - Trump's way of governing requires total division of the population in order to establish an ever-faithful support base. It will certainly help achieve his goals of self-enrichment for both his ego and his financial empire. It will also ruin our country to a point that it will take many years to heal, if it can be healed at all.
Thanks for your observations from the outside. I have many friends outside of the US, and your views pretty much mirror what I am hearing from others.
A very sad era in our history, for sure!
Stone-Eater Added Jul 5, 2018 - 1:26pm
Oph
 
They fight an enemy which is not OUTSIDE but within themselves, I think. A lot of people in the US have realized that the "American dream" is out of reach for them. Shattered illusions, maybe job loss (George Romey is an example for that insecurity, no accusation or anything though), losing the home because of mortgage rates etc.
 
And the result is - as it is here - immigrants are at fault. People don't realize that it's not the immigrant's fault, because they look for the same - work and security for a family. But POLITICS and division is at fault. And the economic circles play one against the other. Same in Europe.
opher goodwin Added Jul 5, 2018 - 1:29pm
Stone - I think it all stems from the top. When there is licence to hate and encouragement to violence it has a distinct psychological impact. It has energised nastiness and extremism. Same thing here with Brexit and that release of hate.
opher goodwin Added Jul 5, 2018 - 1:30pm
Bill - you are right.
opher goodwin Added Jul 5, 2018 - 1:32pm
Stone - there's another one popping up with another hate-filled post. Where are they all coming from? Has Autumn tapped into an extreme right-wing site or has America gone nuts?
Ric Wells Added Jul 5, 2018 - 1:41pm
Stone- In comparison to the rest of the world governments. Europe, Asia, Middle East the United States is still in its infancy stage. What has happened and is happening here is the extremists on both sides have determined that they know what is best for the rest on the nation. The reality is they are both hastening the destruction of the political system in the United States at it stands today. Although it may be upsetting for those of us who are not in the dismal fray and those of you who are witnessing this from other shores what is happening today is necessary and vital. This political system is falling apart and has to. It is not representative of the people by any means. What you are witnessing has been building up for years if not decades. The lies that have been and are being perpetuated by both sides have been and are being exposed for what they are. Nothing more than a means to control the population for their own selfish ends. One must remember that even though we have eloquent words stating what this nation is supposed to stand for these words have never been followed up by actions. In fact this nation was founded on broken treaties false promises stolen lands and lies. And it doesn't matter which side states their innocence, they are all at fault. This nation has become so dysfunctional that only the wealthy class may enter the top echelon of the political spectrum. Laws are passed that only lawyers and high court appointees don't even understand. Amendments are attached to bills that have nothing to do with the intent of the original intent of said proposal. All to hide expenditures that would never pass if left on their own. If I am not mistaken all governments go through what I would call a shake down. This is what is happening here. What will come out on the other side no one knows. This nation may even go away and if that happens? Oh well. This cannot go on the way they are. The United States is in the midst of a revolution albeit a necessary one. Sides have been chosen and all the finger pointing by the extremes will solve nothing. These two extreme factions are and will hasten the crumbling of the absurdity they evoke. On another thread Opher posed a question should the Statue of Liberty be torn down. In a sense it already has. But the actual structure should remain not as a reminder of the lies the extremists perpetuate but as a reminder of what this nation could be.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 5, 2018 - 1:52pm
Bill
 
The US only has to cut its "defense" budget in half and invest the rest into infrastructure, education and jobs. Then - no problem ;-)
Stone-Eater Added Jul 5, 2018 - 1:55pm
Ric
 
This political system is falling apart and has to. It is not representative of the people by any means.
 
I know. And when I point to that, people call me anti-American....
Stone-Eater Added Jul 5, 2018 - 1:59pm
Oph
 
Maybe Putin is at fault LOL
opher goodwin Added Jul 5, 2018 - 2:17pm
Stone - Maybe it is Putin who has fed them in. They are agents of the great Russia.
Meanwhile here's a poem:
I’m a Free Man
 
I’m a free man
But I’m no John Wayne
The freedom I have
Is in the depths of my brain;
I’m not subjected to anyone’s fears.
I’ve no allegiance to all that
Least of all my own cares.
I’ve realised that compromise
Is the name of the game.
I don’t need fortune
Notoriety or fame.
I’ll speak my mind
To any woman or man
Whether enemy, king
Politician or fan.
I’ll think what I like
And weigh everything up -
Listen and ruminate
While I fill up my cup.
I value freedom and justice
Not the bully and greed;
Tolerance and empathy
Is the base of my creed.
I want good education
And a fair society.
Regulation and accountability
Could just be the key.
 
Opher 26.12.2017
Neil Lock Added Jul 5, 2018 - 2:24pm
Opher: I think there's a line missing in the second stanza. The one which begins "I'm not subjected to..."
Stone-Eater Added Jul 5, 2018 - 2:39pm
Oph
 
Excellent. Problem of us humans is when we start to understand things and could be advisers we're already too old to have enough time to get the message across,
 
Or we get replies like "Yo man, Lady Gaga is cool. She's got a nice ass. Whattya say again  ?" LOL
Neil Lock Added Jul 5, 2018 - 2:45pm
Ric: This political system is falling apart and has to. Absolutely right, my friend. And not just in the USA. The divides are world wide. For example, I'm having a big (but polite) argument with Opher about environmentalism over on my recent thread about cars.
 
But many Americans do seem to be more than a bit myopic, and see it as the fault of one party or another, or in the case of the anti-Trump brigade one individual. In reality, it's a failure of the political system that we've lived under for around 2,500 years, and of the specific form of it that we are currently subjected to, which was designed in the 16th century. The question is what to replace it with. I'm working - as hard as I can! - towards answering that question.
 
Stone-Eater: Nice rant (and I mean that positively). Though where you say "peace and a place for everyone," I'd say peace, objective justice for all and respect for everyone's rights.
 
And I think that, in time, you need to re-write and expand this article - you've already made several comments which would add a lot to it.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 5, 2018 - 3:24pm
You liberal men are the problem.  You're a big part of it, Stone. 
 
Fix yourself and your vision will get better. 
We really could do without your uninformed opinion in America.  Unless you want to study our history and get a grip, kindly stay the hell out of our affairs!! Thank you!
opher goodwin Added Jul 5, 2018 - 3:35pm
Neil - I think it's just a slightly clumsy stanza that doesn't quite work.
opher goodwin Added Jul 5, 2018 - 3:36pm
Stone - yep - we used to be cool. Now we're considered cold. But as you know we're really hot.
opher goodwin Added Jul 5, 2018 - 3:36pm
Neil - well expressed.
opher goodwin Added Jul 5, 2018 - 3:38pm
Ryan - fuck of wimp! We can all do without your childish fundamentalist brainwashing and your whining childishness. This is men's talk.
Neil Lock Added Jul 5, 2018 - 3:55pm
Stone-Eater Added Jul 5, 2018 - 2:39pm
 
Should we start a weekly "best comment on WB" contest - to be judged by Autumn? I nominate Stone-Eater's comment above for the first prize. :-) </sarc>
opher goodwin Added Jul 5, 2018 - 3:56pm
Good idea Neil.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 5, 2018 - 4:24pm
Ryboy
 
Do you really think I take you seriously ?
 
Thanks for the comment anyway. Means you're still alive. Whether that's good or not "god" may decide LOL
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 5, 2018 - 4:25pm
Stone Eater,   I dont know if the trend on WB is reflecting trends in the US completely, but certainly the US is fracturing into very intolerant sides, both right and left.
 
But you are correct, I was going to write just such an article on the increasing number of liberal/conservative hating substance free rants that have been posted lately.
 
 I hope Autumn will diversify more in the  future.
 
Where is The Burghal Hidaghe?
Stone-Eater Added Jul 5, 2018 - 4:25pm
Neil
 
Thank you. I always look forward to your thoughtful and balanced comments.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 5, 2018 - 4:36pm
Ryboy's last 2 comments deleted, personal attacks on commenters (not myself) are not allowed on my articles anymore.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 5, 2018 - 4:41pm
Mustafa
 
I guess TBH had enough. Pity. But I understand him. The niveau here is going down steadily.
William Stockton Added Jul 5, 2018 - 5:02pm
I think y'all are missing the big picture & context.
 
Autumn is purposely planting new authors here to create traffic and "hits".  She knows, as every media executive knows, conflict creates web traffic. 
90% of the new authors here are Autumn transplants from some other website.  These new authors never respond to comments nor have they ever commented in the first place (shows Autumn's own hypocrisy in her own rules).
 
I'm tired of the click-bait crap here too.  But it is exactly the same thing happening in mainstream media.
TexasLynn Added Jul 5, 2018 - 5:03pm
Stone... sorry to interrupt the hug-fest... I will comment here without using either adjective/label of division you're probably referring too. :)
 
As I've said before, I don't agree that these labels are divisive as much as descriptive of a division already there.  And it is a division that has always been there and always ebbed and flowed in politics and society.  Are we in an era of flow?  Oh yeah.
 
Deciding that we won't use the adjectives/labels is like pretending some truth is not the truth; like some bear we know is in the woods, is not really there.  I've never found pretending false is truth or vice-versa to be useful in solving anything.
 
But funny how one group of people (let's call them star bellied sneeches (SBS) for lack of a better term)... continually (and I mean continual) and mouth-frothingly, blame an orange haired goon for all this newly discovered division they perceive. 
 
For example, you, sir, couldn't even help but do it in a post deriding the problem of division (to the EXTREME point of even making references to his followers as NAZIs).  Fellow SBSs couldn't help but pile on in their first comments.  But when it comes to lack of malice and division, star bellied sneeches (at least in their own minds) are as pure as the wind-driven snow...
 
It leads one to believe that SBSs have zero (and I mean zero) self-awareness that they are no better when it comes to division.  They see ALL, AAAALLLL the division coming from one side if not one person.  It's not... not by a long shot.  AND it's obvious that SBS ideas of no labels and working together is just a long way of demanding... capitulation.
 
So, the idea present is, if we would just quit labeling and dividing each other that something magical would happen and things would get done and move us closer to some just out-of-reach utopia.  We should do that, SBSs thinks, if just for the kids. 
 
The problem is... some of us (let's call us plain bellied sneeches (PBS) or lack of a better term) think the grand plans of the SBSs are NOT in the best interest of our posterity.  Strangely the star bellies feel the same way in reverse.  Who is right about the best path forward isn't subjective, the ideological divisions aren't imaginary, and the labels describing those divisions aren't useless.
 
It is just a fact that there are political divides and that people generally fall in line behind one or another.  Exceptions on particular issues for particular individuals exists, but they are the exceptions that prove the rule (in my opinion).
Ryan Messano Added Jul 5, 2018 - 5:06pm
What is very problematic is you poor liberals having zero standards, and trying to compensate by making up rules.  You attack conservatives and see nothing wrong with that, but you have huge problems when your profanity and lies are called out.  Then, when a conservative dares to tell the truth on your posts, you spitefully delete their comments, alleging personal attacks aren't allowed.  Not my fault that you are personally debauched. That's a personal issue that you liberals need to fix.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 5, 2018 - 5:06pm
2 more Ryboy insults deleted.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 5, 2018 - 5:09pm
William
 
I think you're right. So many typewriter avatars around (new "users") who all blow into the same horn. We're being trolled :-)
Stone-Eater Added Jul 5, 2018 - 5:15pm
Lynn
 
But funny how one group of people (let's call them star bellied sneeches (SBS) for lack of a better term)... continually (and I mean continual) and mouth-frothingly, blame an orange haired goon for all this newly discovered division they perceive. 
 
It's not the fault of Trump. He's a PRODUCT, as were 0bama, Bush and who-knows-who. They're figureheads of the economy. And they are stupid, if not they wouldn't sit there. Or do you think that Noam Chomsky or George Carlin would have made it to presidency ? No ! Why not ? Because they're too intelligent and empathic.
 
The best way to get to power is a mixture of hypocrisy and intuition when to do and say the right thing at the right occasion and profit. One might say that's clever, might be. But in the long run it never works.
 
Stone-Eater Added Jul 5, 2018 - 5:23pm
All
 
I'm sorry to be forced to delete comments. I don't do that usually. some people have insulted me to the max but I let it stand. Why ? Because there was a subject which got emotional. That's ok.
 
But we're no Kindergarten here. But when users come here for the only purpose to insult others which want to decently discuss items - nope.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 5, 2018 - 5:27pm
Ryboy
 
You don't write anything on my articles anymore, comprende ? What you do on other articles is not my business. But never come back here anymore. Don't waste your time.
William Stockton Added Jul 5, 2018 - 5:38pm
We're being trolled :-)
 
That's a good way to put it.  We are being trolled by Autumn.
 
What Autumn, like mainstream media, fails to understand . . . people do not like to be trolled.  Eventually, we figure this crap out and stop participating.  Perhaps media execs and website hosts like Autumn believe is that we are the dumb masses.  This is their biggest mistake.
 
People are attracted to drama, unfortunately.  However, manufactured drama will buy them traffic in the short game but in the long run, will ruin their credibility and the credibility of their media service.  People are getting very wise to this manipulation and going elsewhere.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 5, 2018 - 5:42pm
William
 
Could it be that for example Ryboy is a paid troll to generate traffic ? Hm....really gotta think about that. If that's the case, WB loses its reason for existence. Just a thought....but thanks for the input !
William Stockton Added Jul 5, 2018 - 5:46pm
By the way, I used to give Autumn the benefit of doubt with her "authors must comment first before posting articles" policy.  I thought this was to weed out bogus authors just planting political propaganda.
 
Over the past year or so, when all these new "typewriter authors" began appearing from Autumn's own work, I understood differently.  Her policy for authors to comment on other's work has everything to do with web traffic and to create more "drama".
 
Hey, these are just my observations and I could be all wrong.  Perhaps Autumn could prove to me otherwise.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 5, 2018 - 5:47pm
BTW: I believe that POV's MUST be different. But they should be discussed in a mature way, not by using hate speech and personal insults. Apparently the net allows some to have a big lip but in private they'd be pretty silent...I'm sure :-)
William Stockton Added Jul 5, 2018 - 5:53pm
Could it be that for example Ryboy is a paid troll to generate traffic ? 
 
I do not believe that.  However, Ryan is a gold-mine for Autumn.  He is her perfect contributor.  If she had 100 more Ryans, she could unload this website and recoup some of their family loss.
 
You see, I can say these things because Autumn is never forthcoming about why this website exists in the first place.  What is its mission.  And why she consistently rejects donations.  
 
Hey, I am an instigator too here.  Just like you Stone.  We say things that rile people up.  And just like you, I am not trying to ruffle people's feathers purposely.  I just say it like I see it.  Ryan could be the exact same and does not have any ties to Autumn.  Who knows.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 5, 2018 - 5:56pm
Over the past year or so, when all these new "typewriter authors" began appearing from Autumn's own work, I understood differently.  Her policy for authors to comment on other's work has everything to do with web traffic and to create more "drama".
 
Hm...yep. And the thing is that ALL of them write about "politics" in a way that reads like publicity for any "party" in a very aggressive manner. There was no one who wrote about daily life or personal things. We should be aware of that.
 
We got that in Europe too. The subject is not important as long as the message touches basic emotions....
Stone-Eater Added Jul 5, 2018 - 6:00pm
However, Ryan is a gold-mine for Autumn.  He is her perfect contributor
 
Sure. One can talk any bullshit, but when he stirs emotions he will have his audience for/against, and that generates comments and clicks :-)
 
So, from now on I will start all my articles with
 
HEIL HITLER AND BUDDHA ;-)
TexasLynn Added Jul 5, 2018 - 6:20pm
William >> Over the past year or so, when all these new "typewriter authors" began appearing from Autumn's own work, I understood differently.  
 
In Autumns defense, about a year ago, I was one of those typewriters.  She contacted me and asked if she could post something I had written.  I agreed and liked the format afterward, so I stuck around.
 
I see a typewriter (or an old computer) and I just see it as her attempt to recruit new talent and diverse opinion.
 
But that's just me, I always look for the best in people... :) until proven wrong.  Autumn hasn't done that yet (at least for me).
William Stockton Added Jul 5, 2018 - 6:22pm
HEIL HITLER AND BUDDHA ;-)
 
Yes, Stone.  That is the media game right now.  The internet has completely trashed media outlets and their past business models.
Credibility is gone.  It's rampant right now.
 
However, things will change.  New business models will emerge. Credibility will return to the media . . . someday.  People need and want this.
I thought Autumn was onto something here.  Free speech and open dialogue.  Unmanufactured . . . without manipulation from some corporate media planning group. 
However, what I am seeing on this website is exactly what is infecting the rest of the media . . . manufactured drama.
 
William Stockton Added Jul 5, 2018 - 6:33pm
Lynn:  In Autumn's defense, about a year ago, I was one of those typewriters.  
 
Hey, nothing wrong with Autumn recruiting.  That is awesome. 
Its these rules she has created which give away motive.  Secondly, her reposting an author's article, from another website, is in violation of her own rules.  She enforces these rules on us.  I know.  But does not enforce them her personal recruits.
 
Perhaps you already know that with every author she "recruits", she is choosing her content for this site.  She is choosing authors that have strong positions and will create responses.
 
Autumn treads a very narrow path in her "recruitment" policies.  Does she sell legitimacy & credibility for new traffic?  I think she has gone too far and has already turned away many people who are offended by the blatant political trolling.
James Travil Added Jul 5, 2018 - 7:09pm
Interesting article Stone. On one hand I certainly agree with you that extremism (left or right) is a bad thing. That's why my label is as a moderate independent. But I also agree with Lynn that labels, if they are accurate, are helpful and appropriate. Just don't mislabel people just because you dislike them. I would love it if there were fewer political articles and more moderates around, but it is what it is, and people are unlikely to change. 
Kurt Bresler Added Jul 5, 2018 - 7:27pm
Stone>>> you need to "get over it"  In these posts we go from the Fight between American Right and Left to attacks and low opinions of Autumn  and again  You all need to "get over it"
Like Lynn says there are some basic profound differences in the Left and Right which will not be compromised because some are deeply held religious beliefs which have been part of America since her birth the new revolution of liberal progressive no rules no laws thinkers are not the leadership we on the right want for our country AND our children.
Things which the Left has done to spur on the battle... 
1. Light the White House up with Gay Pride Rainbow colors
2. Become so PC that no one in the country dare say the N-Word because it has become hate speech and one can possibly be arrested for it .. I guess.  not sure that has been done, but surely entire careers have been ruined for someone mentioning something even offhand without thinking  ...AS IF people are perfect to begin with.
I was on the Left, I wanted Socialized health Care I voted for Obama twice.   BUT when leaders step over the line and KEEP going it's time for a change.  And for 8 years 1/2 of the country has been stewing in Anger while the Left went FAR LEFT off the Deep end.
Please do not make light of American's in Battles which they care deeply about.
3.  I do not want my Children Taught about nor encourage to be lesbian or homosexual PERIOD!!!
4.  AS we see now the LEFT cares more about bringing in Immigrants even illegally so they can gain more of a voice in their insanity.  Do they mention that is cost more to care for these immigrants than the average American gets for Social Security which is about 1,200.00 a month.  I hear it costs plenty to house, feed and give health care to all these illegal aliens while Americans who have worked all their life here get peanuts.
This is just a small list....
 
James Travil Added Jul 5, 2018 - 7:41pm
Kurt, #3 on your list isn't something the left has done it's just a statement of your hatred for the left. And other than identity politics the so called "left" (ie, the democrats) have went mostly right over the last few decades. They are mostly neoliberals who abandoned their own base years ago in favor of Wall Street. That ain't a leftist thing. 
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 5, 2018 - 8:06pm
TexasLynn,
re:"mouth-frothingly, blame an orange haired goon for all this newly discovered division they perceive. "
 
  Although true, it is a partial truth, in that it ignores the fact that during the previous presidency the  "whatever adhominems you might choose to use"  would
 
"mouth-frothingly, blame the Magic Negro for all this newly . "discovered problems they perceive. "
 
so there is nothing really special about the adhominem laden group you should choose, other than the fact that you choose the one on the left.
 
 I spend much time among such frothings. Some, BTW, are still at it even though The Kenyan as been out of the picture for some time.
 
Moreover, this in some sense is part of the point. .You see the mouth frothing over Drumpf, but you either didnt see or conveniently forgot the mouth frothing over Obama bin Laden.
 
But lets not forget  his wife 
 
Chewbaca

 
Mustafa
 
Even A Broken Clock Added Jul 5, 2018 - 8:29pm
This comment thread is why I enjoy WB. Even though Autumn has had to request increasingly inflammatory posters for permission to put their posts on this site, she has no influence on whether those folks will ever follow up. As for myself, I normally tend to wait in the comment stream to see if the poster engages his or her responders before I post a comment. I make an exception if the person is unusually literate, or if I do politically agree with the comment.
 
This thread is going after the reasons why we all participate. We want a discussion between those whom don't agree with each other. Maybe we all believe in the power of our own words to persuade and convert the "opposition" to our point of view. Speaking for myself, I just want to have a civil exchange where we can agree to disagree.
Jeff Michka Added Jul 5, 2018 - 8:38pm
Gee, and we've got Willy Stockpot calling Autumn a hypocrite, but says nothing of his hypocrite rightist buddy, TraitorLynn, who screams and cries, but is completely abusive and loves ordering people around online 'cause he's "Mr. IT", and MUST be listened to and respected, though does nothing to engender respect.  Today, he's a patriot, tomorrow he advocates America be broken up, writes articles about it, but can't see the contradiction, actually he does see it, and that's why he's so angry.  HE SHOULD BE ANGRY AT HIMSELF FOR STUPIDLY BECOMING A HUGE HYPOCRITE, BUT IT'S ALL MY FAULT, according to TraitorLynn.  Like Messano, he wants the object of his anger deleted.  Yeah, that will erase HIS hypocrisy.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 5, 2018 - 8:44pm
 
If you can't defend your beliefs, EABC, maybe it's time to get some new ones.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 5, 2018 - 8:45pm
Come on my post, and you'll be deleted every time, Michka. 
Even A Broken Clock Added Jul 5, 2018 - 8:55pm
Ryan, ever since you returned to WB and revealed your personality, I pledged to myself to never read one of you posts since you obviously are incapable of serious introspective thought. Since that decision, I have never regretted it.
 
Now go ahead and take your medicine Ryan, things will be better soon. Sean will be on Fox shortly and you can comfort yourself with your thumb while you ponder the unfairness of the world.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 5, 2018 - 9:10pm
In my safe space.   You never learn there, EABC.  If you can't directly confront the opposition you are a shameful coward, unfit to ever acquire the truth, and at your present rate, you are in no danger of ever doing so. 
 
I see you have no problem lying.  I've never had a hellivision in my life.  What hellivision programs have brainwashed you? 
Jeffry Gilbert Added Jul 5, 2018 - 9:28pm
Look on the bright side Stone soon DUHmericans will be physically at each other's throats rather than simply metaphorically.
 
With any luck at all they'll be reduced in number to just over 100 million and their shit hole will be reduced to rubble. 
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 5, 2018 - 9:39pm
Ryan,
re:"If you can't defend your beliefs, EABC, maybe it's time to get some new ones."
 
It is SO interesting that you bring this up.
 
Not once, not 1 time!, have you answered a  simple  question of mine to support your assertions.
 
Instead you simply lash out the the predictable 5 biographies inanity.
 
Mustafa
 
 
James Travil Added Jul 5, 2018 - 9:46pm
Look at lying Ryan going on about truth, a concept utterly alien to him. He lies and tries to deceive others, not very well, but he puts in the shameful effort. Then when his pitiful efforts fail he pats himself on the back and lies again pretending that he succeeded. Pathetic. This is what worshiping false "gods" does to one. 
Leroy Added Jul 5, 2018 - 10:36pm
We're in the midst of a civil war.  Europe has had its fair share; now let us enjoy ours (don't confuse the War of Northern Aggression with being a civil war).  What's the point of a civil war if you can't be nasty to the opposing side?  What can you expect when the leader of the Democratic party suggests that the next Supreme Court justice should be an illegal immigrant?  It is our duty to combat imbecility.   Anyway, O started the civil war. 
 
For some comic relief, check out the Second Civil War Letters.  You have to excuse them on use of "Second."  They just don't teach history well today.
Katharine Otto Added Jul 5, 2018 - 11:02pm
Stone,
Oh me oh my, but the gang's all here and dukeing it out in characteristic fashion.  I appreciated Autumn's inviting me to contribute, and I enjoy reading what other people have to say.  Over the last couple of years, I have found several contributors who consistently have interesting perspectives.  I've missed many who have left.  There do seem to be a lot of "newbies," who don't have much staying power, but the old guard remains solid, warts and all.
 
I'm impressed with this forum because of the diversity of viewpoints and experience, even if the exchanges aren't always "polite."  I trust my own judgment enough to determine what to believe and avoid labels, because they seem so over-used and trite.  Like using cuss words to compensate for lack of vocabulary.
 
There's an enormous sense of betrayal going on in the US, on all fronts.  What we were taught to believe looks more and more like lies, and everybody seems to be looking for someone to blame.  We are suffering growing pains, psychologically speaking, being forced to grow up and become adults.  
 
Michael B. Added Jul 5, 2018 - 11:24pm
Hahahahaha!!! I find it supremely amusing that Stone-Head, our resident Swiss anarchist and professional slacker (read LOSER, and, like others of his ilk, a parasite on the back of his people, and probably many others as well), and Gopher Badlose, our resident World Government Statist (read greasy, grimy, dirty, subterranean parasitic RODENT), have joined their pea-brains once again in their strident anti-Americanisms and attempt to pass judgement on others who do not meet their "standards". What's with all of the labeling there, dude? LOOOL
Ryan Messano Added Jul 5, 2018 - 11:29pm
Boom, Michael B, with the TKO.
 
Get the smelling salts for Rock brain and Badlose.  
 
We Americans don’t like when foreigners try to boss us around, Badlose, and RockSense.  You would think you learned from the American Revolution.
TexasLynn Added Jul 5, 2018 - 11:52pm
William S >> Perhaps you already know that with every author she "recruits", she is choosing her content for this site.  She is choosing authors that have strong positions and will create responses.
 
I'm not trying to argue the point, but rather analyze if your logic and conclusions are sound.  I would agree with this assessment IF her recruitment success rate were high.  It's not.  I don't even think it's 10%.  What percentage of typewriters do you see stick around?  It's hard to steer a path when you have so little control of who sticks around.
 
One last observation is that I see the typewriters all over the spectrum which also points to simply inviting in as many as possible and hope a few stay (whatever their bent).
 
William S >> I think she has gone too far and has already turned away many people who are offended by the blatant political trolling.
 
I definitely have some disagreement with her decisions in this regard.  There are a few (one Michka in particular) that I have no doubt drives away people who have a lot to offer.  It's not my site, I don't pay the bills so I'll give Autumn the benefit of the doubt.  Which doesn't mean I won't voice my opinion on the matter.
 
Jeff Michka commenting on your post is like a dog #$@%ing on your article.
 
Reading a Jeff Michka comment is like inspecting a pile of dog #$@% for something of value.
 
Replying to a Jeff Michka comment is like intentionally stepping in dog #$@%.
 
Best to just acknowledge him and his #$@% as #$@% and ignore it as best you can.
 
If Autumn really wanted to retain more good contributors, Michka would not be here.
 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 
James T >> But I also agree with Lynn that labels, if they are accurate, are helpful and appropriate. Just don't mislabel people just because you dislike them.
 
It scares me when James T agrees with me.  It makes me re-evaluate my positions that I hold so dear. :)
 
James T >> I would love it if there were fewer political articles and more moderates around, but it is what it is, and people are unlikely to change.
 
I enjoy the conservatives that are here on WB.  I even enjoy some of the liberals.  It's those dam moderates that drive me crazy?  You guys need to $%$@ or get off the pot. :)
 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 
Mustafa,
While I do not deny such attacks on Obama existed the quantity and viciousness pale in comparison to what is going on now.  Before it was a few nuts here and there that the main stream media exaggerated for effect.  NOW... the attacks come from the main stream media... practically ALL of them.  NOW... the attacks come from the opposition leadership; not some nut with a blog living in his mother's basement.
TexasLynn Added Jul 5, 2018 - 11:53pm
EABD >>  As for myself, I normally tend to wait in the comment stream to see if the poster engages his or her responders before I post a comment. I make an exception if the person is unusually literate, or if I do politically agree with the comment.
 
I like this policy.  I'll adopt it with a bit of modification.  I actually try to be a little more liberal :) (see what I did there) with my comments in hopes of helping Autumn in her recruitment efforts.  I also usually try to be a little more reserved and gentle with first time posters.  I unfortunately didn't follow that last policy with poor Mustafa's first post.  I still don't think he's recovered. :)
 
EABC >> Speaking for myself, I just want to have a civil exchange where we can agree to disagree.
 
I like that idea... but sometimes we just cross those lines.  I had someone on one of my posts recently cross that line and... suffered the consequences.  I try to be civil but give as good as I get.
 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 
Leroy >> We're in the midst of a civil war.
 
We really are.  One the union will not survive.  Just over 200 years!  It was a good run.!
 
I just hope when the Canadian barbarian hordes take us over, they are merciful, eh. :)
 
Leroy >> For some comic relief, check out the Second Civil War Letters.
 
I did... not too bad.  It's always good to mock the pansy SBSs (Star Bellied Sneeches)... If only there were some activity that we knew of where pansies gathered to do pansy things.  Know of any? :)
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 6, 2018 - 12:08am
Is everybody going crazy?  
 
Yes.
William Stockton Added Jul 6, 2018 - 2:53am
Lynn:  I'm not trying to argue the point, but rather analyze if your logic and conclusions are sound.  I would agree with this assessment IF her recruitment success rate were high.
 
Ok.  Let's go down this logically.  
I doubt there is a diminishing returns argument here.  So, it costs her nothing (but time) and she still gains 10% (not sure what your denominator is . . . per year . . . per month).  
 
This is all speculation because we do not know what the motive is.  Determining success is baseless for us.   For all we know, 10% growth might be pretty good.  It is better than zero for sure if she did nothing.
 
What I surmise, again, is that this is her best effort to save the site.  It appears to be the same thing happening right now in other media outlets.  They are desperate.  Since WB started, the internet has evolved and grown.  Huge competition for traffic.  If I were Autumn and I saw my web traffic declining, I'd try something different too.  However, I would pass on the drama-farming models.
EXPAT Added Jul 6, 2018 - 4:04am
IS EVERYBODY GOING CRAZY?
 
No Stone. Only the Progressives who are being proven idiots by Trumps success, can't handle the reality. They drift from one delusion to another, and nothing works.
They try to say Trump is just in it for the money, or he is an ego Maniac, or he is a racist, sexist, anti gay, fascist womanizer ala Stormy, Russian collaborator who is destroying our good friends with Tariffs. But things just keep getting better for America!
 
We no longer have a media, they are the propaganda arm of the Democrap Socialists. Finally they are telling the truth The Democratic Socialist Party!
 
A third party, has to emerge this year, as Democrats destroy any chance of being a viable political party.
Many of the destroyed progressives end up posting their delusion on WB, because the other sites won't  put up with their delusional stupidity. I used to come here to learn what the average American was thinking. Now I come here for laughs.
 
 
 
Flying Junior Added Jul 6, 2018 - 4:07am
I'm sorry bros, and the occasional sister.  My eyes get tired reading these long threads as much as I enjoy them.  I just wish to give my up-vote to Mustafa Kemal as an educated and readable conservative.  I don't really consider him an opponent.
 
I also enjoy other conservative contributors.  I don't understand why people of differing stripes shouldn't be able to get along.  Maybe some contributors are beginning to resemble zebras more than tigers.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 6, 2018 - 4:09am
Wow :) Amusing. And Ryboy has found in Michael a like he can even look up to. Praise the lord of delusion LOL
 
BTW: US hero patriots: You can bash Europe or Africa no problem. I'm fair and won't break down crying :)
EXPAT Added Jul 6, 2018 - 4:18am
Stone. I notice you invoking the Lord, God and religion a lot lately. Is there some kind of conversion, or rebirth going on?
EXPAT Added Jul 6, 2018 - 4:20am
P.S. It is not the:
US hero patriots: You can bash Europe or Africa no problem. I'm fair and won't break down crying :)
who are doing all the bashing! IT IS YOU!
opher goodwin Added Jul 6, 2018 - 4:32am
Badlose and Rockhead - still at the playground level little boy. You're out of your depth sunshine. This forum is for mature men and women not silly children. Twerp.
opher goodwin Added Jul 6, 2018 - 4:34am
Expat - Trump is just in it for the money, or he is an ego Maniac, or he is a racist, sexist, anti gay, fascist womanizer ala Stormy, Russian collaborator who is destroying our good friends with Tariffs.
Spot on!!
Flying Junior Added Jul 6, 2018 - 4:43am
I think that our buddy, EXPAT, was role-playing with that quote.
 
If only there was such rapprochement.
opher goodwin Added Jul 6, 2018 - 5:16am
FJ - what is needed is an awakening! The scales need to drop from the eyes! It's like watching cattle being led to the slaughterhouse.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 6, 2018 - 6:03am
FJ
 
I don't understand why people of differing stripes shouldn't be able to get along
 
Neither do I.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 6, 2018 - 6:04am
Expat
 
I notice you invoking the Lord, God and religion a lot lately
 
Only when it concerns Ryboy. I might also add porn and homosexuality next time to get him boiling a bit LOL
Stone-Eater Added Jul 6, 2018 - 6:10am
BTW Expat:
 
There is a slight difference: I don't bash people or insult them or give them funny names - except Ryboy. I can take a lot but I can give back as well. What I do is CRITICIZE POLITICS, not the regular Joe who simply wants to get through - no matter if he's from the US, Europe or wherever.
 
When people take critics on their political and/or economic system personally, it's their problem.
EXPAT Added Jul 6, 2018 - 6:23am
You constantly criticize the American culture, and the people ARE their culture.
I have pointed out to you that the World calls US citizens, Americans, but your limited ideology cannot accept that!
The regular Joe, put Trump in office. Or in Britain, Brexit, or in Germany, dumping Merkel, or in France, deporting immigrants, etc.
Your Progressive socialism is FINISHED!
Stone-Eater Added Jul 6, 2018 - 6:36am
Expat
 
You constantly criticize the American culture, and the people ARE their culture.
 
Nope. There is no "American" culture. Maybe in Peru or Bolivia. The US is a conglomerate of very many DIFFERENT cultures the people brought along with them when they came. And I think that is en principe GOOD !
 
You don't want to tell me that McDonalds or WalMart has anything to do with "culture" ? What IS culture ? It is history, customs, beliefs. 
 
IF the US is so proud to be a multinational state why does it want to close borders ? To be LESS multinational and keep the "European White Flavor" ?
 
The regular Joe, put Trump in office
 
Why ? Because the regular Joe needs work, but an actor can't create that by isolating his country economically and play big boss only.
 
Your Progressive socialism is FINISHED!
 
Please. That -ism stuff is a too easy way out. The regular Joe doesn't give a shit about -isms and theories. He wants to work and feed his family. And .... sorry for using an -ism: What we have now, also in Europe, is an economic neofeudalism, not democracy.
 
Given that expression exists.
 
Leroy Added Jul 6, 2018 - 7:19am
"I enjoy the conservatives that are here on WB.  I even enjoy some of the liberals.  It's those dam moderates that drive me crazy?  You guys need to $%$@ or get off the pot. :)"
 
You disappointed me, Lynn...lol.  Where's your usual quote?
 
"I just hope when the Canadian barbarian hordes take us over, they are merciful, eh. :)"
 
The majority of the hordes have amassed themselves within one hour of the American border.  An attack is imminent.  I hear that they plan to subdue Americans with 24/7 of Justin Bieber.
opher goodwin Added Jul 6, 2018 - 7:45am
Expat - when you've lived a while you begin to see that things go in cycles. At the moment we have a wave of right-wing populism that is the result of austerity, immigration and terrorism. People are fearful and desperate and they are turning to fascists with simplistic black and white answers.
In a while they will realise that they have put their faith in the hands of selfish billionaires and ideological extreme nationalists who do not have their interests at heart. 
The pendulum will swing.
TexasLynn Added Jul 6, 2018 - 9:58am
Leroy >> Where's your usual quote?
 
Am I that predictable?  I need new material, but my old stuff is so good, though. :)
 
Leroy >> An attack is imminent.  I hear that they plan to subdue Americans with 24/7 of Justin Bieber.
 
$%#@!  So much for my hope and plea for merciful...
opher goodwin Added Jul 6, 2018 - 10:09am
Leroy - you have just come up with the ultimate military weapon right when they have the ability to clone an endless stream. LOL. (though it could be worse - Justin is just an annoying brat - it could be a shedload of whining repressed homosexual Ryans like an invasion of cretinous kindergarten brats all endlessly prattling 'read 5 books of the Founding Fathers')
Leroy Added Jul 6, 2018 - 11:28am
It could be worse, Opher.  It could be 24/7 of Celine Dion's "My Heart Will Go On."
opher goodwin Added Jul 6, 2018 - 12:52pm
Leroy - that is true, we have a lot to be grateful for.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 6, 2018 - 1:13pm
Leroy,  upon your recommendation I just found out who 
Celine Dion is and watched few seconds of  
 "My Heart Will Go On"
 
it is truly a horrific weapon.
 
Its apparent popularity is frightening.
 
At least they didnt play the music when you were coloring.
 
 
opher goodwin Added Jul 6, 2018 - 1:44pm
Leroy - there might be a Celine Dion appreciation class that your mrs might enjoy?
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 6, 2018 - 2:34pm
Ugh, I worked at Blockbuster when Titanic came out in the theaters and then released on home video.  We played trailer tapes that showed coming attractions.  That song was on all of them so for about a year I heard that song every time I worked.  I wanted to choke myself.
Leroy Added Jul 6, 2018 - 2:36pm
The truth of the matter is that it is Mrs. Leroy's theme song.  When she plays it and sings along, my son cries.  I am uncertain as to whether it is joy, sadness, or pain.  I suspect the latter.  I've heard it one too many times.  Appreciation classes wouldn't help at this point.
 
Mustafa, it might have pushed me over the edge and caused me to color outside the lines.
Jeff Michka Added Jul 6, 2018 - 2:40pm
TraitorLynn, ignoring his Ilove America so much, I need to talk shit about their patriotism versus Mine,"  But ol Traitor wants the US broken up and can't see why his American patriotism is at odds with his American Confederatism.  So, he complains I talk about the same thing, but he keeps his Jeff is dog shit this, dog shit that, etc. So I guess he thinks everyone on WB will agree with him.  He is always telling Autumn what to do, though has stayed away from the recent thread talking about things being fixed on WB.  I might be dog shit to ol Lynn, but he's just another whining crying rightist piece of garbage, but can't acknowledge his duplicity.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 6, 2018 - 5:05pm
Oph
 
Bieber is Donny Osmond of our time, Elvis in my mother's and Sinatra in my grand mom's time.
 
History repeats itself LOL
Stone-Eater Added Jul 6, 2018 - 5:10pm
Mustafa
 
Celine Dion is no worse than Blackney Houston (or was it Phoenix?), Lady Gaga (in German "gaga" means mentally retarded) or Beyonce (what kind of a name is this anyway), or Cryanna...ah..Rihanna.
 
Plastic people putting out plastic music.
Mustafa Kemal Added Jul 6, 2018 - 5:50pm
Thanks Stone Eater, thats very comforting.
 
I have heard of these names, just never seen em in action
 
wsucram15 Added Jul 6, 2018 - 7:12pm
SEF..what a shit show you stirred up...lol.  This thread was great.
EXPAT Added Jul 7, 2018 - 12:08am
Stone.
Nope. There is no "American" culture. Maybe in Peru or Bolivia. The US is a conglomerate of very many DIFFERENT cultures the people brought along with them when they came. And I think that is en principe GOOD !
 
WRONG!
People from around the world, came to the New World to find what they did not have in their own countries. They left behind the Socialism, Nobility, oppressing religion, and rigid social structure that kept them in their place.
 
What emerged, was the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights.
That is the American Culture!
The best of ideas, the world had to offer combined in a comprehensive plan of freedom for ALL.
 
France was so impressed, they gave us a statue to hold a lamp to enlighten Europe.
 
YES, America was founded by immigrants, but it was their CHILDREN that were better than they, and made AMERICA the greatest country in the world!
 
Now you and your Progressive ilk, do anything you can to disparage this social evolution, and return to socialism.
 
Trump reminds us of the American Evolution, that began with a Revolution against European oppression of the INDIVIDUAL!
 
Stone-Eater Added Jul 7, 2018 - 2:39am
Jeanne
 
Hehe :)))
Stone-Eater Added Jul 7, 2018 - 2:41am
Expat
 
Might be  But that dream ended latest when these white European freedom fighters started to steal the land of the Natives and therefore killed them....
EXPAT Added Jul 7, 2018 - 5:02am
More delusion from Stone! Everybody came to North America, because it was virtually unpopulated. The original inhabitants, the Clovis people who's land was stolen by people from Mongolia and Northern Russia, have just recently been found to have replaced even earlier people.
 
The ancient people who have long been thought to be the first humans to colonise North America were actually johnny-come-latelies, according to scientists who have comprehesively analysed the ancient fossilised poo of their predecessor Americans.
The new revelations come to us courtesy of Copenhagen university, where some of the investigating boffins are based. The scientists say that their results demonstrate conclusively their somewhat controversial thesis: that the "Clovis" culture dating from around 13,000 years ago - which has long been thought to be the earliest human society in the Americas - was actually preceded by human habitation at the Paisley caves in Oregon.
"When we published the first DNA results from the Paisley Caves four years ago it caused an outcry," explains Dr Paula Campos, one of the prehistoric poo experts.
"Many archaeologists felt that our results must be wrong. They considered it an established fact that Clovis were the first Americans. People would come up with any number of alternative explanations to our data in order to repudiate our interpretation. Today we demonstrate that our conclusions were right."
The so-called "Clovis First" theory had until 2008 been accepted as unquestioned truth among archaeologists, who considered that the Clovis people - so called from 13,000 year old archaeological finds near the village of Clovis in New Mexico - were the true native Americans. When the still more ancient 14,000-year-old excrement was found at the Paisley caves, it was pointed out by disgruntled boffins that no stone tools or other evidence of the type seen at Clovis had been found, and that the DNA poo evidence could have been erroneous.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07/13/clovis_not_first_says_paisley_caves_excrement/
EXPAT Added Jul 7, 2018 - 5:10am
A study of skulls excavated from the tip of Baja California in Mexico suggests that the first Americans may not have been the ancestors of today's Amerindians, but another people who came from Southeast Asia and the southern Pacific area.

The question of who colonized the Americas, and when, has long been hotly debated. Traditionally, Native Americans are believed to have descended from northeast Asia, arriving over a land bridge between Siberia and Alaska some 12,000 years ago and then migrating across North and South America.


But recent research, including the Baja California study, indicates that the initial settlement of the continent was instead driven by Southeast Asians who occupied Australia 60,000 years ago and then expanded into the Americas about 13,500 years ago, prior to Mongoloid people arriving from northeast Asia.


The skulls from Baja California, which may date back only a few hundred years, have slender-looking faces that are different from the broad-cheeked craniums of modern Amerindians, the descendants of the Mongoloid people.
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/09/who-were-the-first-americans/
opher goodwin Added Jul 7, 2018 - 7:03am
Expat - that sounds fascinating and totally contrary to my understanding of the evidence. I'll read that article with great interest.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 7, 2018 - 7:03am
I know Expat. But thanks for the lesson. Actually virtually EVERYBODY on the continent came over across the Bering Strait as we suppose. Which homo was the first is in doubt. Maybe the boyfriend of Lucy ;)
 
Anyway...there was never an eternal "state" anywhere. We should be aware of that. Maybe Switzerland or the US don't exist anymore in 100 years.
 
Should WE care ? LOL
opher goodwin Added Jul 7, 2018 - 7:09am
Expat - I fail to see how that really changes the picture though? You claim that America was almost empty. It wasn't was it? At the time of first contact it had between 8-112 million Native American Indians.
The Europeans practiced genocide on those people. They were reduced to 250,000 by 1890.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 7, 2018 - 7:20am
Oph
 
Fact is that Europeans killed most of them in the name of "god", because they were "primitive and not civilized".
 
I guess Eugenics emerged from there.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 7, 2018 - 7:23am
.....and now it comes back. The US for the Whites. But nobody says it in the open....demographics will not care about that...
Jeff Michka Added Jul 7, 2018 - 4:38pm
Demographics will become as it becomes.  The day of the white guy is thankfully almost over, ans many of these white folks, like TraitorLynn, Lyin Ryan and the whole courst of the terminally right wing we've seen here of late, can't stop it.  Perhaps this is why TraitorLynn wants his own country.  However like most of the fearful white guy crowd, TraitorLynn is afraid of his confederate talk.  He wants to be seen as this rightist stalwart, not fearing a civil war to get his way, but wanting the old refuge of rightists, patriotism, to "take the day."  Sure it's rank hypocrisy, but you don't see any shortage of that here.
opher goodwin Added Jul 7, 2018 - 5:42pm
Stone - that is right. God obviously directed them to. They eradicated it from their history books too. No mention on school syllabi. The smallpox blankets, the spearing of babies on sabres, the cutting off of genitals and rape. No a mention. There is not a mention either of their 20th Century policy of forcibly removing the children from families and bringing them up away from to break the traditions and teach them to be 'civilised'.
There's a long history of ripping babies and children of colour from their families.
opher goodwin Added Jul 7, 2018 - 5:44pm
Jeff - the future is multicultural whether they like it or not. Sexual attraction will take care of that. There is a biological imperative to choose a partner with different characteristics. Mixing genes gives hybrid strength. Biology always wins.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 7, 2018 - 6:07pm
Oph
 
You got a point with sexual attraction there LOL
opher goodwin Added Jul 7, 2018 - 6:18pm
Yep Stone - it's the biological imperative.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 7, 2018 - 6:33pm
You white liberal men are a plague on society.  You are termites, destroying the Western house of virtue and wisdom.  You will be stopped.
Jeff Michka Added Jul 7, 2018 - 7:47pm
You are a human mango worm, Lyin Ryan...just squeeze the flesh containing the worm and it pops out, much like Ryan.  You don't know what a mango worm is, look it up.  About the only person here that might know is SEFa, but Ryan is definitely a mango worm.
EXPAT Added Jul 7, 2018 - 8:34pm
opher and Stone.
You persist in the Liberal/Progressive myth (See how -ism"s save time) that the American Indians were SLAUGHTERED, ala Mao and Stalin style, in one or two generations.
 
The Indian wars lasted over 250 years, from 1622 to 1890. Attempts to include the survivors in society, largely failed, so they were given their own homeland, known today as the state of Oklahoma, and smaller areas around the country.
 
The various reservations were mostly impoverished, until Gambling made many tribal areas wealthy, providing income without working for it.
 
 
EXPAT Added Jul 7, 2018 - 8:42pm
opher. My response to Stone was due to his incessant / obsessive need to bash America. When I provided a comment he could not logically argue, he presented the myth of Indian slaughter to show how bad American people are. I also destroyed that bit of silliness.
 
Next he will try to blame McDonalds for destroying world nutrition. He has alluded to that before!
 
The DELUSION goes on!
Ric Wells Added Jul 7, 2018 - 9:28pm
Expat there is now certain evidence that there were two migrations of people who resided in the area of Babylon who migrated east towards what is now China. From there this population in time interacted and intermingled with those who were a seafaring peoples. They launched ships from the Asian coast and sailed the currents eastward towards what is now the Americas. Somewhere between the Asian coast and the Coast of the Americas the currents split. Some ships sailed the northern current and settled in what is now northern California up through Alaska and beyond. Others caught the southerly current and settled from what is known as Baja and through the west coast of South America. The theory of the land mass emigration has been largely discounted for two reasons. First the temperatures at that time were so low that travel at that time would be extremely prohibitive. One would freeze to death. Second because of the temperature factor food for eating and fuel for warmth would be scarce if any at all.
 
Now the decimation of the American Indian culture began well before 1622. In the northern Atlantic fishing was so plentiful that those who discovered these areas wanted to keep then a secret and they also migrated to the shores of North America to prepare their massive catches for shipment back to their ports where fortunes were made. When Spain began their sojourn to the Americas they mainly started in South America but as you well know rumors of the seven cities of gold were spread and also of Cibola. These of course were lies but as the captains of these vessels wanted to keep their jobs they perpetuated these lies. Of course what happened was the disease these "explorers?" (I use this term loosely) were as such that the peoples who lived inhabited this land had no immunity.  
 
When Jamestown was founded in 1619 the natives that populated this area told the settlers they were welcome to stay. In fact when the settlers faced starvation the Indians brought food to them so they could survive. 
Now you say the survivors were given their own homeland. If you recall they were driven from their own homeland by an illegal government policy known as Manifest Destiny. The United States government had no intent of letting the American Indian survive. They were forced onto lands that could barely support existence, The agents who were in charge of treaty'd appropriations had no system of oversight so corruption and graft was prevalent. The Cherokee who assimilated into white society were driven from their lands because gold was discovered in the Tennessee to Georgia area and the whites wanted that land for speculation and farming. The Black Hills which were treaty's in the 1868 treaty were invaded by the United States Army via Custer who found a gold nugget in one on the hills and spread the rumor that the Black Hills were loaded with gold just for the taking. The United States government had no intention of keeping the treaty and stood by as thousands of miners, store keepers farmers and other settlers invaded their country. 
Texas shares the same story of the invasion of whites onto lands that were treaty'd to Indians. 
Ric Wells Added Jul 7, 2018 - 9:43pm
Now lets get to the revolution. 
George Washington was one of the worst military leaders the British Army had ever seen. If it weren't for the help of the Indians that chose to side with the colonists and teach them guerrilla warfare, The slaves who took up arms on the side of the colonists, the Latinos who sided with the colonists and the French. The colonies would have been drubbed a sound thrashing and the United States would not exist.
 
Thomas Paine who has been called the father of the American Revolution had been ostracized by the majority of the founding fathers when his writing also fathered the French Revolution. Sheet hypocrisy
 
Thomas Jefferson Slave owner, slave trader, and fathered six children out of wedlock with Sarah "Sally" Hemings. .The main emphasis of the declaration and constitution were taken from the precepts of the Iroquois Confederacy.
 
Ben Franklin engaged in heterosexual, homosexual and extramarital affairs while he was ambassador to France. He was also known to frequent the ingestion of opium. And if you call me a liar on this one you are also calling another founding father a liar in John Adams who reports of this were sent back to the United States.
 
John Adams turned his back on the constitution when he signed into law the Sedition Act during his presidency taking away the power of freedom of the press guaranteed in said constitution.
 
And there is so much more but I am going back to reading "The Future of Humanity" by Michio Kaku.  Terraforming Mars, Interstellar Travel, Immortality and our destiny beyond Earth.
 
 
EXPAT Added Jul 8, 2018 - 1:52am
Ric. You mix fact and fairytale quite well. A mixture of propaganda and speculation.
 
Now the decimation of the American Indian culture began well before 1622.
Who do you think decimated the Indians?  That hand full of Pilgrims with their blunderbuss?
 
When Jamestown was founded in 1619 the natives that populated this area told the settlers they were welcome to stay. In fact when the settlers faced starvation the Indians brought food to them so they could survive. 
It is clearly documented, that Jamestown Colony resorted to Cannibalism out of desperation and died of starvation.
 
First the temperatures at that time were so low that travel at that time would be extremely prohibitive. One would freeze to death.
 
Tell that to the Vikings, whose settlements are just being discovered!
 
 The Chickamauga Wars were fought to drive out the settlers once and for all. The slaughter and terrorism used by the combined tribes was to put fear in the settlers to ensure they never returned.
The Cherokee Leader Dragging Canoe, was named the Savage Napoleon. The Muskogee, Shawnee, Natchez and Pensacola all fought with the British who supplied the Guns needed to slaughter the colonials.
Open warfare broke out in the summer of 1776 along the frontier of the Watauga, Holston, Nolichucky, and Doe rivers in East Tennessee, as well as the colonies (later states) of Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia. It later spread to those along the Cumberland River in Middle Tennessee and in Kentucky.
The wars of the Cherokee and the Americans divide into two phases.
In the first phase, lasting 1776–1783, the Cherokee also fought as allies of the Kingdom of Great Britain against its rebellious colonies. This first part of this phase, from summer 1776 to summer of 1777, involved the all sections of the entire Cherokee nation, and is often referred to as the "Cherokee War of 1776". At the end of 1776, the only militant Cherokee were those who migrated with Dragging Canoe to the Chickamauga towns, for which they were known to the frontierspeople as the "Chickamauga" or "Chickamauga Cherokee".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee%E2%80%93American_wars
EXPAT Added Jul 8, 2018 - 2:17am
 
Your second comment is pure garbage Ric.
 
A nation of native North Americans, the Cherokee have a long connection to the present-day eastern and southeastern United States. Prior to European settlement of the Americas, Cherokees were the largest Native American tribe in North America. They became known as one of the so-called "Five Civilized Tribes," thanks to their relatively peaceful interactions with early European settlers and their willingness to adapt to Anglo-American customs.1 Despite their long history of alliances with the British, the Cherokee maintained peaceful relations with President George Washington after the American Revolution. However, the tribe also faced the difficulties of cultural assimilation.
The Cherokee had a long history of peaceful interactions with British settlers, beginning when the two groups became trading partners in the late seventeenth century. Their economic partnership eventually evolved into a military alliance, with the Cherokee aiding British forces in 1712 in battle against the Tuscarora. At the outbreak of the French and Indian War in 1754, Cherokees once again fought alongside the British, working largely to protect the southern Appalachian Mountains. However, the British-Cherokee alliance was not without its problems. In 1760, the Cherokee War broke out after underpaid and dissatisfied Cherokee warriors began to rob Virginia farms and raid settlements in the modern-day Carolinas. This dispute was brief, ending with a peace treaty in 1761. King George III issued a proclamation in 1763 prohibiting European settlement west of the Blue Ridge Mountains into Cherokee land. Although this law was widely ignored, the effort—along with the Cherokee's history of alliance with the British—likely contributed to the tribe's decision to side with British forces during the Revolutionary War.
EXPAT Added Jul 8, 2018 - 2:19am
continued:
From the beginning of the war, Cherokee efforts met limited success. Early attacks by the tribe on Georgia, the Carolinas, and Virginia led to a counter-operation by a southern detachment of the Continental Army led by General Charles Lee. Known as the Cherokee Campaign of 1776, Lee's operation devastated tribal settlements. In September 1776, Patrick Henry's correspondence with Washington included references to "some hot Skirmishes" with the Cherokee and noted that Continental forces had defeated the tribe despite having "inferiour Numbers."2
The Cherokee Campaign left nearly fifty Cherokee towns destroyed and thousands of survivors without homes or access to food. In exchange for peace, the tribe relinquished vast amounts of land to the Americans, including some of its oldest settlements. The Cherokee had been conquered and were forced into their first major cession of land. Following their peace agreements with the Americans, the tribe was able to maintain a degree of cultural and political independence.
George Washington's treatment of the Cherokee nation during the Revolutionary War was one of a strict military enemy. In a letter to John Hancock on February 5, 1777, Washington referenced orders he had given to Captain Nathaniel Guest, who led a regiment through Virginia and the Carolinas. In the orders, Washington directed Guest to "bring a Company or two of Cherokee Indians" during his attacks on these areas to serve
as scouts as well as hostages in order to “secure the good behaviour of their Nation."3
Washington's openly hostile approach to the Cherokee dissolved following the Revolutionary War. Near the beginning of his presidency, Washington asserted "to the commissioners for negotiating a treaty with the southern Indians . . . That the Government of the United States are determined that their Administration of Indian Affairs shall be directed entirely by the great principles of Justice and humanity."4
The policy resulted in the Treaty of Holston between the Cherokee nation and the United States government in 1791. The treaty served as a declaration of peace, outlining the specific boundaries of Cherokee land and giving the tribe the right to enforce those boundaries and punish trespassers. However, it also placed the Cherokee under the official protection of the United States, granting the government the right to control the tribe's trade and foreign relations. The Cherokee agreed to some level of cultural assimilation, particularly in regards to a move toward sedentary subsistence agriculture.
The conditions laid out in the Treaty of Holston illustrated President Washington's desire to maintain peaceful relations with the Cherokee while also promoting American interests. The Cherokee were appeased by official sovereign borders, while the United States gained access to tribal lands. The Cherokee transition to farming opened the tribe's vast hunting grounds for use by European settlers.
In August 1796, Washington again demonstrated his approach to Cherokee relations in his "Talk to the Cherokee Nation." He referred to the tribe as "my beloved Cherokees," showing a drastic change in attitude from the Revolutionary War.5 Washington encouraged the tribe to continue to pursue sedentary farming practices and described the measures to be provided by the American government for that purpose. These included experts to instruct the Cherokee people in practices such as spinning, weaving, and plowing and the provision of certain livestock, as well as the appointment of an Agent of the United States to maintain communication between the tribe and the government.
During the Washington presidency the Cherokee lost some of their independence through assimilation. Simultaneously, the group maintained peaceful relations with the United States. For the Cherokee, however, amiable relations did not continue after Washington's presidency. With President Andrew Jackson's support, the Indian Removal Act of 1830 led to the displacement of large segments of the original Five Civilized Tribes from the southeastern United State
Stone-Eater Added Jul 8, 2018 - 6:47am
Interesting. Thanks Expat. Reminds me of African slave trade where local chiefs sold their people.
 
Humans are humans....
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 8, 2018 - 8:51am
Na Stone....was kommt mit George? Und Marko? Sie haben auch genug hier?
Stone-Eater Added Jul 8, 2018 - 8:56am
TBH
 
I guess so. Or maybe they have decided to reduce digital life :)
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 8, 2018 - 9:09am
Rick and ExPat - good introduction of science and history into the discussion. A good thread here.
 
With a few exceptions I can find something to agree with in most comments. Stone....don't know what to tell ya, man. You wont have to worry about the United States much longer. I hope you have a back up to blame for the world's problems when we sign off.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 8, 2018 - 10:19am
Ric, your comments on the Founders were completely off, as Expat largely exposed.   This is a phenomenon that has come about with the introduction of the internet, where every wild allegation about the Founders is suddenly Gospel truth.  Washington did a capable job considering he was opposing the worlds top military. 
 
You are right about Paine, he became a degenerate liberal, and the Founders rightly ostracized him.  Of course the Founders abhorred the French Revolution.  It went really south due to the ideas of atheism that pervaded the movement.  Reminds me of WBs liberals.  They screech about equality, freedom, and ‘rights’, yet it would be a resounding disaster if they were in power.
 
Jeffersons affair with Hemings is far from established fact, and you can read “The Jefferson Lies” by David Barton on the topic.  If Jefferson’s writings were based on the Iroquois, more power to him.
 
There is zero factual evidence of Ben Franklin engaging in affairs while in France.  He was quite the favorite of the French Ladies, but that’s no surprise, as he was charming, witty, intelligent, and a man of means, and that has rarely failed to bring a flutter to a woman’s heart.  To allege he was into homosexuality is a gross slander that is based nowhere in reality, and while Adams disagreed with his style, he never alleged actual affairs.
 
Adams Sedition acts were a controversial part of his presidency that actually would work well for Trump.  The left wing media has completely gone off the rails with TDS and is causing sedition.  Lincoln used these principles to silence dissenting media and it’s a good thing he did, as slavers night not be free today if he hadn’t. 
 
There is a lot of good you didn’t mention, Ric, but coming from the perspective that the Indians were noble savages and robbed by bad whitey, it’s eaay to understand why the Founders flaws are of interest to you, and their accomplishments, not so much. 
 
 
 
 
 
Leroy Added Jul 8, 2018 - 1:37pm
"Thomas Paine who has been called the father of the American Revolution had been ostracized by the majority of the founding fathers when his writing also fathered the French Revolution. Sheet hypocrisy."
 
Thomas Paine my favorite of the Founding fathers.  He put his life on the line for what he believed.  I don't know if it is truth or urban legend, but it has been said that Franklin was pontificating, as usual, one evening and offered, "Where there is freedom, there is my country," to which Paine turned and gravely replied, "Where there is not, there is mine."  He was moments away from having his head lopped off in France following his ideal.  Franklin saved his arse...er...head.
 
"Thomas Jefferson Slave owner, slave trader, and fathered six children out of wedlock with Sarah "Sally" Hemings. .The main emphasis of the declaration and constitution were taken from the precepts of the Iroquois Confederacy."
 
I don't care, to be honest.  But, I agree with Ryan; it is far from established fact that he fathered children by Hemings.  I think we do know that someone from the Jefferson line fathered the children.  It is unimportant, nevertheless.  It is revisionist history to make a big deal out of it.  It was the times he lived in.  That he had or traded slaves is of no consequence.  It was normal for the times, and legal.  Even blacks owned slaves.  And, we know that the native Americans owned slaved.
 
It is said that Paine wrote the original draft and delivered it anonymously to Jefferson, to which Jefferson added the flowery language.  It reads like something Paine would have written, so I am inclined to believe it.   Paine was notorious for being an original thinker and didn't base his works on the works of others.  If he authored the original draft, then I would discount any Iroquois influence.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 8, 2018 - 1:50pm
Oh Thomas! Where are you now in our hour of need!
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 8, 2018 - 1:50pm
Both of them
opher goodwin Added Jul 9, 2018 - 8:01am
Expat - well there's a different view on the history of the Indian wars. So they weren't given smallpox ridden blankets, systematically murdered by the army or suffered starvation from the deliberate policy of killing the massive herds of bison that sustained them?
Neither was their land stolen off them after many treaties, in order to mine gold or settle?
They weren't forced on that trail of tears where thousands died?
Their children weren't forcibly removed from them in the 20th century?
Stone-Eater Added Jul 9, 2018 - 8:51am
Oph
 
No matter what happened in the USA: The White race left destruction everywhere it went. Be it in South America, in Asia or Africa. There ain't no fucking doubt about that !

The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 9, 2018 - 10:21am
You guys are plagued with white guilt. Well I don't have any. Just as I have not assumed the mantle of my father's virtues, I am still neither culpable for his sins
Jeffry Gilbert Added Jul 10, 2018 - 12:12am
Well I don't have any. 
 
Neither do I. 
 
Don't apologize for it either. 
 
EXPAT Added Jul 10, 2018 - 5:25am
opher. You don't read well, do you? All you know is the propaganda with out  facts. Who was given contaminated blankets? Was smallpox even known or how it spread at the time?
Could it be that Buffalo were slaughtered for meat, by settlers, hide hunters, Rail Road workers? Know how Buffalo Bill got his name?
 
Their Land? who ordained that? When you lose a war, often you get relocated.
Yes there was an attempt to educate their children and incorporate them into society, but it failed.
 
You know so little, and assume so much!
I tried to put your idea of slaughter into perspective by pointing out the Indian Wars, yes the Indians had Armies, and allied with the British, went on for 250 years, and tens of thousands were slaughtered on both sides, but the Europeans kept coming, and eventually overwhelmed the natives, as happened in most places.
Ask the Welsh, Irish and Scot's about having their land taken from them!
EXPAT Added Jul 10, 2018 - 5:38am
I frequently hear allegations that the United States of America intentionally wiped out native American tribes by giving smallpox-infested blankets to them. Let's clear this up.
First, there has never at any time been a formal policy of the United States government to entirely wipe out the native Americans by disease or any other manner. The original policy, left over from the colonial era, was "separation and sovereignty." The native American tribes were and remain sovereign nations, although the United States handles defense, international relations, and certain other affairs for them, rather as the United Kingdom does for the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man. They are now also dual nationals with the United States. Many native Americans proudly serve in the United States military and have compiled an exemplary record there.
Now, about these smallpox blankets.
During the target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Siege of Fort Pitt in 1763 -- 13 years before American independence -- Delaware and Shawnee Indians, aroused by target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Pontiac's Rebellion, attacked Fort Pitt, which was near modern day Pittsburgh. Shortly after the siege began, British General Jeffrey Amherst wrote to Colonel Henry Bouquet, who was preparing to lead a party of troops to relieve the siege, "Could it not be contrived to Send the Small Pox among those Disaffected Tribes of Indians? We must, on this occasion, Use Every Stratagem in our power to Reduce them." Bouquet agreed, but there is no evidence that he actually carried out the suggestion, and he indicated in a letter that he was afraid he could contract smallpox himself.
However, those besieged in the fort had already, of their own initiative, tried to infect the besiegers with smallpox and failed. During a parley, the fort's leader, Captain Simeon Ecuyer, gave blankets and a handkerchief from a smallpox ward to two of the native American delegates, Turtleheart and Mamaltee. The effort evidently failed, because they came back for further talks a month later with no signs of disease, and smallpox normally shows signs within two weeks. Furthermore Turtleheart was one of the signatories in the Treaty of Fort Stanwix five years later. Modern historians believe that the blankets had been unused for too long, and any virus present on the blankets would have already died. It is also possible that the Delaware Indians who were given the blankets were immune through prior contact. Smallpox kills 30-35% of those who get it; those who survive are immune from then on.
 
EXPAT Added Jul 10, 2018 - 5:40am
One thing that is certain is that many native Americans had already contracted smallpox in the ordinary way, unintentionally though contacts with infected whites. There is no example of an outbreak in the Fort Pitt region following the siege. There is a documented outbreak elsewhere in the region among a different people, the Lenape, who had attacked a white settlement where smallpox was present.
So, in conclusion:

Infecting people with smallpox was not US government policy or practice, and the only effort to do so occurred prior to US independence.
The Fort Pitt event was undertaken by Captain Simeon Ecuyer of the British army on his own initiative; it was neither official British policy or official army policy. In fact, King George III's target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Royal Proclamation of 1763 banned colonial settlement west of the Appalachian Mountains because that territory belonged to the native Americans.
There is no evidence that it succeeded; there is some evidence that it failed, as the people given the blankets are known to have survived.

https://adamsmacros.quora.com/The-Smallpox-Blanket-Myth
Eric Reports Added Jul 10, 2018 - 2:50pm
There is a good chance Hillary Clinton might run again in 2020, which makes her relevant.  Also, she has chosen to stay on the stage.  The boring, dumb comparison to Trump-Hitler (as you have made) keeps the misery index going.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 19, 2018 - 3:23am
Eric
 
I don't hope so. Trump was a bad choice but Bitch would have been worse. I mean TWO people to choose from....
Dr. Rupert Green Added Jul 30, 2018 - 6:32am
Thank you, Stone. That is why my post reveals I have stones in being different and not conforming. I am one of the wild seeds out there that will eventually replenish the stock when these with their cultivated seeds of conformity have become dormant and useless.