Breaking Down Russian Collusion

I must admit that the "Russian Collusion" and "Russians Hacking Our Election" issues seem a bit obscure and overblown to me; but then I don't have all the facts.  Few do at this point.  My opinion could be changed before this is all over, but right now, that's where I am.  As with everybody on both sides of the political spectrum, I suspect things, but bias creeps in.

 

Hopefully, bias has little to do with the observation that both terms have more to do with propaganda and framing the debate than truth.  But, since I'm always in search of truth, I think I'll try to break this down a bit.

 

First, these are two separate things to me, though I suppose if there is a grand conspiracy (which I currently doubt) they could be related.  But, in the interest of getting my head around this mess, I'll just address "collusion" here.  I'll may look at “hacking our election” later.

 

Russian Collusion:

The definition of "Russian collusion" to me would be someone(s) interacting with Russian citizens/agents to do something (like release information) that would possibly affect the outcome of an election.  The key being that both sides (American & Russian) work together to accomplish a task. 

 

From what I've heard, I believe that the act of "colluding" itself... is not illegal.  This is not a statement of approval or disapproval, but rather just a statement of fact.  But... while I'm on the subject of approval/disapproval; to be honest with you, I don't have much trouble with it as log as 1) the law is followed and 2) the information released is true.

 

My opinion has always been, the more accurate information the public has the better, concerning those in office and how they conduct their business and lives.  Even if that information is something they don't want made public.  That goes for everybody (GOP, Dems, left, right, moderate, etc...)

 

Back to the legality issue, simply accepting dirt from the Russians (or anybody) against your opponent is not illegal to my knowledge.  Encouraging them to find more is not illegal.  Encouraging them to release it is not illegal.

 

Illegal could come to play on this issue though.  It would be illegal to promise and/or give  something of value to a foreign agent in such consequences.  Examples could be something like money or a promise to change policy/law.  Please note that the "foreign agent" part is pretty important here; remove that from the equation and you're back into legal territory.  (Think lobbying and campaign contributions.)

 

Granted... it would be very likely that whoever was supplying such dirt would expect some sort of quid-pro-quo payment or favor.  But those in the position of prosecuting crime must prove that is what happened... not just speculate or say it is probable.  That's kind-of how the rule of law works.  But I digress...

 

Scenarios:

I envision that one of the following scenarios took place concerning "Russian Collusion".

 

Scenario 1: The Russians had dirt, they offered it to Americans or offered to release it and nothing was promised or delivered in return. 

 

This may not be as crazy a scenario as it sounds.  It has been speculated (by many in the know) that Putin held a grudge against Hillary Clinton for denouncing his previous election victory as tainted and corrupt.  Of course, it was tainted and corrupt; but Hillary bent over backwards to denounce it (to her credit) and she made a political enemy.

 

Reports are, Putin hated the woman and wanted to return the favor by giving her a good %^&%ing over.  And who doesn't think Putin would do that?  For free?  Anybody?

 

Result of Scenario 1: No harm no foul.  It may not have been fair that the Russians %^%#ed Hillary, but that's life in the big league.  No crime was committed if no payment in kind was offered.

 

Scenario 2: The Russians had dirt, and offered it to Americans in exchange for something.  The American declined OR never followed up.  This is possible.

 

Result of Scenario 2: No harm no foul.  It is not illegal to be offered an illegal transaction.  Think of it like a congressman being offered a bribe.  He doesn't have to decline it to be in the clear; all he need do is not accept.  It is only illegal to accept it.

 

Scenario 3: The Russians had dirt, and offered it to the Americans in exchange for something.  The Americans accepted the offer (if they paid is immaterial, just agreeing to pay would be a crime).  This scenario is also possible.

 

Result of Scenario 3: Harm and foul.  Said Americans (all of them) should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.  This, in my opinion would be an impeachable offense, IF the President had full knowledge and gave approval of the transaction.

 

To be honest with you... I don't think this happened; even at a lower level.  I certainly don't think it happened at a higher level.  Why?  See my analysis of the Mueller investigation below.

 

The Mueller Investigation:

That said... getting to the Mueller investigation.  A crime happening and proving it beyond reasonable doubt are two separate things.  This is just my opinion...  but if Mueller had anything of this nature he would already have concluded his investigation.  The fact that he's laying little perjury traps and blackmailing associates and lawyers to set these traps says to me... he's got nothing related to "Russian collusion".  He's moved on to Stormy Daniels bullshit which means his investigation is now purely political.

 

Could Mueller surprise me with actual proof of "collusion"?  Absolutely.  But were well past the time and expense where he needs to %$#@ or get off the pot.

 

Conclusion:

I'm of the same opinion as disgraced FBI investigator Peter Strzok concerning the "Russian collusion".

 

"There’s no big there there." -- Peter Strzok.

 

Peter was someone who would know, and Peter was someone who with all his heart and soul would have wanted there to be a there… there. 

 

If you’re still hoping for collusion, you really need to prepare yourself for what Peter Strzok already knew well over a year ago.  If you’re hoping the likes of the Stormy Daniels BS pans out into something, then this is strictly political for you, and rational analysis and rule of law went out the window a long time ago.

 

 

Given there is an absence of much there, I can’t blame Trump for his reaction to the investigation and the investigators.

 

I would have given the benefit of the doubt to the investigators for as long as they proved professional and unbiased.  Mueller simply naming nothing but a cabal of Hillary supporters went well past that line.  Since then, the actions of the investigators and Mueller in moving on to the likes of Stormy Daniels, leaves that line well in the rear-view mirror.

 

With the obvious disingenuousness of the investigators; I wouldn't cooperate with them one bit.  I wouldn’t answer their questions.  I would make them jump through hoops to get the tiniest bit of information or cooperation.  I would bend them over the table every chance I got.  I would drag their sorry behinds through the mud and back again just for the fun of it.

 

You wage political war... expect political war in return.  %$#!, the Clintons knew that in spades.

Comments

Bill Kamps Added Jul 23, 2018 - 11:42am
Proving quid pro quo is difficult.  That is why large campaign contributions while legal, are suspect, because often a quid pro quo is implied.  It often at least buys access, if not the expected outcome.  A person make a large campaign contribution would at least expect to get their voice heard when they wanted that.
 
Similarly with "collusion".  Though again, very possibly not illegal.
 
So far Trump is innocent.  But that is like saying Hillary is innocent of the all the accusations thrown at her.  While she has never been charged with a crime, it is difficult to know if the grey billowing stuff around her is smoke, or just fog from her own mistakes.
 
What I have heard about the Russians "hacking" in our election boils down to them spreading mis-information through otherwise legal means.  It is not illegal to say things that are not true on FaceBook for political advantage, happens every day.  Hacking of this sort, is pretty impossible to stop, whether they Russians spread the information through blogs, or TV, or Facebook, there are many avenues to spread misinformation.  Our government does it to other governments all the time, and often to its own citizens. 
 
That governments engage in mis-information is less shocking than the gambling in Casablanca. 
 
To me, hacking an election would be if the Russians actually got hold of the voting machines, and changed the number of votes.   This has not claimed to have been done.
 
In my opinion this is just more smoke, so that the politicians have something to pontificate about, while they continue to fail to do their jobs. 
Leroy Added Jul 23, 2018 - 12:12pm
Oh, but there was collusion with an agent of a foreign power with the intent of changing the election outcome.  Apparently, it only matters if a Republican was involved.
 
Christoper Steele is a former spy for the UK.  Once a spy, always a spy.  He concocted a false dossier for pay with the intent of influencing the election.  Hiring a foreign agent to provide dirt is not illegal.  What was illegal, IMHO, is when he thought Clinton might lose the election, he broke his arrangement with the FBI and went directly to the media to expose Trump with known false information to improve the chances that Clinton would win.  If Steele was working for Team Trump, this would be scandalous.
 
Couple that with Clapper pointing the finger at O on Saturday, we have collusion by Team O to throw the election.  But it is ok if it is done by the Democrats.
 
Who needs Russians when we have Democrats who believe that the end justifies the means.  They were meant to rule.
Dino Manalis Added Jul 23, 2018 - 12:13pm
 Politicians are wasting time; taxpayer money; brain cells; and delay serious policies.  Russians are making fun of our delusion!  We should be colluding with the Russians in pursuit of peace; stability; and prosperity globally.
TexasLynn Added Jul 23, 2018 - 12:26pm
Bill K, Thanks for the contribution... excellent comment.
 
Bill K >> Proving quid pro quo is difficult.
 
Yes... but understand that if what I've read is correct; there is a huge difference between promising something to a U.S. based organization and a "foreign agent".  There is a lot of legal leeway if the entity is national (within the U.S.).  There is NO leeway if the entity is foreign.
 
But you are correct... it is difficult to prove quid pro quo no matter the circumstances.
 
Bill K >> So far Trump is innocent. 
 
So far nothing has been proven.  I see innocent/guilty in the same manner as right/wrong.  It's not subjective; you are one of the other regardless to being currently caught or the matter being proven.
 
The same goes for Trump and Hillary.
 
As I stated in the post, it is my belief that Trump is in fact innocent and even that those below him are as well... this is based strictly on how the Mueller investigators are proceeding off on tangents and indicting/blackmailing Trump associates on old, unrelated, or minor charges.
 
Bill K >> What I have heard about the Russians "hacking"... Our government does it to other governments all the time, and often to its own citizens.
 
I tried to concentrate on the "collusion" in this post and may write a separate post on the "hacking".
 
That said, I pretty well agree with your assessment on the hacking and I'm fine with you expanding on it here.
 
A very good point that you made is the part about us doing it also.  I don't remember the details off the top of my head, but Obama spent 100s of thousands of (tax) dollars to try and influence the Israeli elections.  He and an Israeli organization "colluded" to get Benjamin Netanyahu booted from office.  They failed, but the attempt was there.
 
But... should we try to influence the elections of nations (especially those antagonistic to us).  In my opinion... yes, absolutely.
 
Bill K >> That governments engage in mis-information is less shocking than the gambling in Casablanca.
 
Exactly... and that goes for us as well. When it comes to foreign malcontent nations like Iran, North Korea, Venezuela and many others; all (information and influence) bets are off (as well they should be) in our efforts to effect regime change.  Now when it comes to mis-information against your own citizens, then it's time to clean house (which is exactly what we have with the current deep state).
 
Bill K >> To me, hacking an election would be if the Russians actually got hold of the voting machines, and changed the number of votes.   This has not claimed to have been done.
 
Again... right on the money.  As far as I can tell they hacked the DNC and a few Hillary cronies.  They tried to hack a few government agencies (state and local) and mostly failed.  The DNC and Hillary cronies does not equate to "our elections" in my book.
 
In fact, the information released concerning the DNC and Hillary was information that really needed to be out there.  Had it been the Washington Post that had done it they would be up for a Pulitzer.  Had it been the WP exposing GOP shenanigans, the win (of the Pulitzer) would be a done deal.
 
Bill K >> In my opinion this is just more smoke, so that the politicians have something to pontificate about, while they continue to fail to do their jobs.
 
We almost agree... to me it's political warfare.  There is little truth behind it and lots of propaganda.  As leftist FBI agent Peter Strzok knew over a year ago... "There is no big there, there."
TexasLynn Added Jul 23, 2018 - 12:42pm
Leroy >> Oh, but there was collusion with an agent of a foreign power ... Apparently, it only matters if a Republican was involved.
 
Yes.  That is unfortunately the case; and will remain so as long as the main stream media is a wholly owned subsidiary of the left.  And I don't see that changing anytime soon.
 
That fact is the main reason Hillary has gotten away with what would have resulted in life sentences for non-leftist.  The watch-dogs of democracy have voluntarily turned into leftist lap-dogs.
 
Leroy >> Christoper Steele ...
 
Yes... it has become rather obvious that all this was a self-feeding cycle intent to bog down the Trump administration if not topple it altogether.  And head FBI management types were at the forefront of implementing what they called an "insurance policy".  This is deep-state stuff at it's worst.
 
I know several of you guys think this will all come crashing down on them... but I don't think so.  As proof, I offer two words... Lois Lerner.  Worst case scenario, they retire as leftist heroes with full pensions.
 
As for their plan, they may not succeed at toppling Trump (though that's still a possibility), but they sure have bogged him down.  That swamp isn't going anywhere.
 
Leroy >> Couple that with Clapper pointing the finger at O on Saturday, we have collusion by Team O to throw the election.  But it is ok if it is done by the Democrats.
 
It is OK... and we have the main stream media to thank for that.  There will be zero consequences.
 
If we console ourselves in any way, let it be that the Obama legacy has been dismantled by Trump.  That's what you get when you build that legacy on the house of cards called "executive orders".
 
Leroy >> Who needs Russians when we have Democrats...
 
The left is unhinged to the point that rule of law means nothing to them.  I don't think there is any coming back from the dark place they have stepped into.  I hope I'm wrong, because it will likely destroy the nation.
TexasLynn Added Jul 23, 2018 - 12:48pm
Dino >> Politicians are wasting time; taxpayer money; brain cells; and delay serious policies.
 
Delay and bogging down serious policies being the intent all along Dino.  And... they are moderately happy with the results so far, I assure you.
 
Dino >> Russians are making fun of our delusion! 
 
They are indeed.  The Russians could not have been happier with the results of the very small investment they put in to sow discord in the U.S.  All thanks to the lunatic left going nuts.
 
Dino >> We should be colluding with the Russians in pursuit of peace; stability; and prosperity globally.
 
We should at least see if such colluding is possible.  Work with them if it is, oppose them if it isn't.  I think Trump understands that and is looking into it.  We'll see; but the left will NEVER look rationally or objectively at those attempts.
 
Good comment Dino, thank you.
Bill Kamps Added Jul 23, 2018 - 1:26pm
Lynn, yes political warfare is a better description because both sides take it very seriously. 
 
The Russian threat while real, is exaggerated for internal politics. They have an economy smaller than Italy, and they spend 10x less on defense than the US does.
 
The countries of Europe spend 3-4x on defense as the Russians.  If they are really scared that the Russians will be in Riga or Warsaw they could put a couple of tank divisions there instead of crying to the US about what needs to be done.  That would stop the "threat".
 
While I dont really like how Trump contradicts himself, his idea that we  should work with the Russians when it makes sense, and oppose them when it doesnt is a healthier approach than seeing them as always the enemy in every situation. 
 
It is  useful to get Russian cooperation on some matters, and that is impossible if we insist on calling them the enemy.  We overlook the flaws of the Saudis, China and others, when it is in our interests, I dont see why we cant do the same with the Russians. 
Ryan Messano Added Jul 23, 2018 - 1:26pm
 
I'm convinced and persuaded that Russian Collusion is a gigantic DNC hoax to retain power at worst, and a gigantic symbol of Democrat incompetence at best.  It is a pure fairytale.  Vladimir Putin is far more believable and is a bigger friend of America than the Democrat leaders are.  Only the uninformed and corrupt do not realize this.  Problem is, America has tens of millions of uninformed and corrupt types, who often have the loudest mouths. 
 
It's humiliating and embarrassing that decent Americans have to be made a laughingstock by treasonous or ignorant Democrats representing the fairytale of Russian Collusion as reality when there is zero evidence supporting it, and plenty of evidence to suggest it was a cooked up idea of Hillary and the DNC.
Dave Dubya Added Jul 23, 2018 - 1:38pm
My opinion has always been, the more accurate information the public has the better, 
 
I agree whole-heartedly. Partisan sources like FOX(R) and Breitbart, and even MSNBC cannot be accepted without question. And no, CNN is not as partisan as those. They have a number of Trump shills on every day.
 
Once you take the words of Trump as truth, all hope for reasonable fact-based dialogue is gone. Bias and loyalty prevail.
 
Trump's inviting Russia to hack democrats was an invitation to collusion. 
 
Definition: secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others. Hacking is a crime, therefore "cheating".
 
The Trump Tower meeting with Russian agents was exactly collusion, and more. It was embraced conspiracy with foreign agents interfering with our election.
 
Completely missing from the discussion is the number of Trumpists who LIED about contacts with Russian agents.
 
That means there IS something to investigate. How about we let Mueller investigate for as long as Email and Benghazi were investigated. Fair? 
 
"perjury traps" = sworn testimony by liars. See above. See Trump, the worst pathological liar to infect the Oval Office.
 
a cabal of Hillary supporters  Mueller is a Republican. Maybe the investigation should be handed over to Putin? Or Ted Nugent?
 
Unless active bias can be found in the investigation, and it hasn't, it doesn't matter who they voted for.
 
With the obvious disingenuousness of the investigators; I wouldn't cooperate with them one bit. 
 
This is a politically based opinion, advocating obstruction of justice.
But Hilary cooperated with several Republican inquisitions.
 
And Trump bragged to Russians in the Oval Office that he stopped the investigation by firing Comey. Not an act of innocence.
 
He's moved on to Stormy Daniels bullshit which means his investigation is now purely political.
 
This is NOT Mueller's investigation. Trump started the whole thing by calling Daniels a liar, remember? She sued. Now Trump is the "victim" again. 
 
The raid was by the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York, and not directly by Robert Mueller’s special counsel’s office. Mueller’s team referred the case to the U.S. attorney, but the U.S. attorney sought the search warrant and received it only after establishing probable cause. 
 
Leroy,
He concocted a false dossier...Hiring a foreign agent to provide dirt is not illegal....etc.
 
This is uninformed opinion. 
 
Russian agent Komrad Ryan sounds like Putin's Jr. Puppet.
Dave Dubya Added Jul 23, 2018 - 2:05pm
I don't remember the details off the top of my head, but Obama spent 100s of thousands of (tax) dollars to try and influence the Israeli elections.  He and an Israeli organization "colluded" to get Benjamin Netanyahu booted from office.  
 
You are being honest about not remembering details, but you remember the far Right meme.
 
Remember when the two-state solution was bi-partisan?
 
From Politifact:
 
Finally, the allegation that the money was spent to fund anti-Likud, anti-Netanyahu groups in Israel for the election is based on speculation. Yes, Obama sent money to OneVoice, a group that promoted a two-state solution. And yes that group partnered with a different group V15 that wanted Netanyahu defeated. But there is no paper trail that the money given to OneVoice was spent on an electoral ground game.
 
Netanyahu’s Likud party sought a court injunction against V15, saying it had violated Israeli election law by accepting foreign donations, but it was never able to prove its allegations.
 
No payment was made to OneVoice after November 2014.
(BEFORE the election was scheduled)
TexasLynn Added Jul 23, 2018 - 2:35pm
Bill K,
Yes, this is all political... including the current special council.  The Russians are just the current bogey man to scare up the base and justify the political war.  If it weren't the Russians just about any other bogey man would do.
 
Still, the Russians are not our friends (as is the case with much of the world).  We need a realistic assessment of who they are and how we should deal with them.  The left can't do that under the current circumstances.  Worse, since they have chosen them as their current bogey man... they escalate the danger strictly for political gain.
 
Trump drives me nuts with his character flaws and implementation of policy.  But it doesn't blind me to the fact that he is right about some issues and is taking (overall) the right approach.  Examples being, our allies in NATO not meeting their obligations; Germany funding Russia's malfeasance through their purchase of natural gas; not alienating Putin when there is nothing to be gained from it...
TexasLynn Added Jul 23, 2018 - 2:35pm
Ryan >> I'm convinced and persuaded that Russian Collusion is a gigantic DNC hoax to retain power at worst, and a gigantic symbol of Democrat incompetence at best.
 
I think you're right in that it has elements of both.  There is a small bit of truth that the Russians hacked, released info, and bought a few internet ads... all of which didn't amount to much.  Upon this tiny bit of truth, the Dems decided to build a mountain of deception.  Doing so was incompetent in that it put the country in greater danger from a nuclear power.
 
Ryan >> Vladimir Putin is far more believable and is a bigger friend of America than the Democrat leaders are. 
 
I don't think I would put it that way.  Vladimir Putin is a dictator and does not have our best interests at heart.  I would not call him a friend in any sense of the word.  But, to your point, the leaders of the Democratic party are a far bigger threat to the Republic than Putin will ever be.
 
Ryan >> Problem is, America has tens of millions of uninformed and corrupt types...
 
On this we agree.  Ignorance is why our republic is teetering and will likely never recover.  The left has managed to harness the power of ignorance and radicalism to server their end game.
Leroy Added Jul 23, 2018 - 2:51pm
"I know several of you guys think this will all come crashing down on them... but I don't think so.  As proof, I offer two words... Lois Lerner.  Worst case scenario, they retire as leftist heroes with full pensions."
 
I'm guessing Clapper was telling the truth and the spying on the Trump campaign was orchestrated by O.  I don't think Congress will allow a former member and president to be dragged into it, especially the first "black" president.  And, if it does, all O has to do is pull the race card.  The media will protect him.  As I stated somewhere in my own article some time ago, no one of any importance will be prosecuted.  Maybe one of more minor actors will be convicted and pardoned by the next president.
Leroy Added Jul 23, 2018 - 2:54pm
"This is uninformed opinion."
 
We'll see, Dave.  So far, I have been far more right than I have been wrong.  Can you say the same?
Dave Dubya Added Jul 23, 2018 - 3:16pm
  Ignorance is why our republic is teetering and will likely never recover.  The left has managed to harness the power of ignorance and radicalism to server their end game. Says a person believing the words of Trump...Hmm.
 
all O has to do is pull the race card. Says the person defending the racist who denied the Black President was an American.
 
So far, I have been far more right than I have been wrong.  Can you say the same? About what? About Trump being a serial liar? I can definitely say you are more far Right. ;-)
Neil Lock Added Jul 23, 2018 - 3:25pm
What amazes me about this thread is that virtually all here - even Lynn himself - seem to think that it's perfectly OK for politicians, media and their hangers-on to be dishonest towards the people they are supposed to be serving. Whatever happened to the Ninth Commandment, my Christian friends?
 
In my view, dishonesty is like physical aggression. No-one should ever use it, except on those that have used (or tried to use) it against them.
 
In this case, in my view, the Russians are probably just scapegoats.
TexasLynn Added Jul 23, 2018 - 3:34pm
Dave Dubya >> I agree whole-heartedly (more accurate information is better).
 
Well, glad we at least started out on the right foot.  My statement had little to do with news organization and more to do with the exposure that Clinton and the DNC colluded to deny Sanders any chance at the nomination as well as other shenanigans.
 
My point?  I'm glad that information got out.  People need to be aware of this crap.  If the main stream media were less bought and paid for, that would be their job.  Whatever the source, I'd like to see the dirty laundry of the GOP exposed as well.  Sunshine is a great disinfectant.
 
So, whoever leaked the DNC, and Hillary’s dirty laundry... God bless you.  Please; find and release more.
 
Dave Dubya >> And no, CNN is not as partisan as those.
 
I don't even know how to reply to that.  Fox has Trump hating shills to balance out their coverage; it doesn't mean they’re not partisan.  Saying "CNN is not as partisan" is just not even remotely intellectually honest.
 
Dave Dubya >> Once you take the words of Trump as truth, all hope for reasonable fact-based dialogue is gone. Bias and loyalty prevail.
 
And were off into Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) land.
 
Personally, I think this President has some serious character flaws... as did the last President.  Bias and loyalty do prevail, but it is the left that has abandoned all reason.
 
Dave Dubya >> Trump's inviting Russia to hack democrats was an invitation to collusion.
 
OK... I'm sure you’re referring to... "Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing.  I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press."
 
Equating that to "inviting hacking" is some of that bias and ideological loyalty you spoke of above.  It's great spin and propaganda.  That's about it though.
 
What Trump said above is equivalent to exactly what I said just now… “So, whoever leaked the DNC, and Hillary’s dirty laundry... God bless you.  Please; find and release more.”
 
Dave Dubya >> The Trump Tower meeting with Russian agents was exactly collusion, and more. It was embraced conspiracy with foreign agents interfering with our election.
 
And THAT is what you want to believe happened.  But, do you know?  Really?  Do you know for sure that is what went down and is "exactly collusion"?  No DD... you don't; not in the slightest.
 
Yet, I, in my post gave three scenarios as to what may have gone down... I at least have the intellectual honesty to include your wishful scenario as a possibility… I finally have the intellectual honesty to admit I may have my suspicions but… I don’t know for sure.
 
Dave Dubya >> That means there IS something to investigate. How about we let Mueller investigate for as long as Email and Benghazi were investigated. Fair?
 
He can investigate as long as he wants; but don't expect those of us looking at his naked posterior to pretend he is wearing clothes.  He's a big boy in the big leagues.  He can handle the slings and arrows just like those who investigated Benghazi and Hillary's email servers.  The only thing different being, biased FBI big wigs who will sweep it all under the rug in the end.
 
Dave Dubya >> Mueller is a Republican.
 
Yeah, DD, and I'm a fiddler crab.  No, really.  I am.
 
Dave Dubya >> This is NOT Mueller's investigation.
 
It had Mueller's fingerprints all over it.  He's using it and other perjury traps as he goes forward.  Tell me you don't think Meuller would have one question concerning Stormy Daniels if he got Trump in the hot seat.
 
Dave Dubya >> Leroy... This is uninformed opinion (on false dossier)
 
The pot calling the wind drive snow black...
TexasLynn Added Jul 23, 2018 - 3:37pm
Dave Dubya >> ... but you remember the far Right meme (on Obama colluding to affect Israeli election).
 
Politifact?  Please... quote CNN next time.
 
Your justification is that they hid the paper trail and didn’t act until a certain date so none of it had anything to do with U.S. dollars.  The mental gymnastics behind liberal thought are impressive.
 
In reality, OneVoice got the money, built the infrastructure, waited just days after the grant period ended, then pulled the trigger to collude and influence the Israeli election.  And in the leftist mind, those few days equals... nothing to see here.
 
All this was possible because the Obama Justice Department “failed to adequately guard against the risk that campaign resources could be repurposed in that manner or place limitations on the post-grant use of resources”.  How convenient… just coincidence I’m sure.  (eyes rolling emoji)
 
Below is the press release from the "bipartisan" Senate investigation.  (Maybe these guys aren’t up to PolitiFact’s standards of objectivity)
 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 
Today, U.S. Senators Rob Portman (R-Ohio) and Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.), Chairman and Ranking Member of the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations (PSI), released a bipartisan report examining the U.S. State Department’s grants to OneVoice—a non-governmental organization operating in Israel and the Palestinian Territories.  The group received nearly $350,000 in grants from the U.S. State Department to support peace negotiations between Israelis and the Palestinian Authority over a 14-month grant period ending in November 2014.  In December 2014, Israeli elections were called following the collapse of peace negotiations.
 
The Subcommittee’s investigation concludes that OneVoice Israel complied with the terms of its State Department grants. Within days after the grant period ended, however, the group deployed the campaign infrastructure and resources created, in part, using U.S. grant funds to support a political campaign to defeat the incumbent Israeli government known as V15.  That use of government-funded resources for political purposes after the end of the grant period was permitted by the grant because the State Department failed to adequately guard against the risk that campaign resources could be repurposed in that manner or place limitations on the post-grant use of resources.
TexasLynn Added Jul 23, 2018 - 3:57pm
Neil Lock >> What amazes me about this thread is that virtually all here - even Lynn himself - seem to think that it's perfectly OK for politicians, media and their hangers-on to be dishonest towards the people they are supposed to be serving. Whatever happened to the Ninth Commandment, my Christian friends?
 
Whoa, whoa, whoa... Neil, thou dost cut me deeply!  What did I say that invites such stinging rebuke?
 
I have been for nothing but the unvarnished truth when it comes to "the people they are supposed to be serving".
 
Surely, I'm missed somewhere in my post/comments where I said "wouldn't" but meant "would".  Please!  Tell me where I am amiss so that I may correct it.
 
Neil Lock >> In my view, dishonesty is like physical aggression. No-one should ever use it, except on those that have used (or tried to use) it against them.
 
Totally agreed, thus my statement...
 
"When it comes to foreign malcontent nations like Iran, North Korea, Venezuela and many others; all (information and influence) bets are off (as well they should be)".
 
BUT when it comes to "the people served", I said...
 
"Now when it comes to mis-information against your own citizens, then it's time to clean house (which is exactly what we have with the current deep state)."
 
Clean house meaning those who are misinforming have got to go.  Drained from the swamp so to speak...  And that goes for any and everybody (public, private, media, business, politician, clergy, etc...)
 
Neil Lock >> In this case, in my view, the Russians are probably just scapegoats.
 
Yes, slightly guilty scapegoats, slightly dangerous nuclear enabled scapegoats, but scapegoats none-the-less.
 
Call me irrational, but when I decide to pick a scapegoat, I’m generally going to exclude the guy who can wipe me (my family, my town, my county, my state, my country) off the face of the planet.  But that’s just me.  I’m sure there was some ingenious Democratic rationale to their choice that I’m not seeing.
TexasLynn Added Jul 23, 2018 - 4:18pm
Leroy >> I'm guessing Clapper was telling the truth and the spying on the Trump campaign was orchestrated by O. 
 
I'm guessing the same thing.  It (the truth) is just immaterial to what we see going on here.
 
Obama was likely behind it and the deep state is protecting him.  It's happened before.
 
Hillary got a pass on the email server because it is likely Obama knew about it all along and likely sent emails to the illegal account.  It would be mightily inconvenient to find those 30K emails and discover that fact.
 
An excerpt follows...
 
"How is this not classified?"
 
So exclaimed Hillary Clinton’s close aide and confidante, Huma Abedin. The FBI had just shown her an old e-mail exchange, over Clinton’s private account, between the then-secretary of state and a second person, whose name Abedin did not recognize. The FBI then did what the FBI is never supposed to do: The agents informed their interviewee (Abedin) of the identity of the second person. It was the president of the United States, Barack Obama, using a pseudonym to conduct communications over a non-secure e-mail system — something anyone with a high-level security clearance, such as Huma Abedin, would instantly realize was a major breach.
 
Abedin was sufficiently stunned that, for just a moment, the bottomless capacity of Clinton insiders to keep cool in a scandal was overcome. “How is this not classified?”
 
She recovered quickly enough, though. The FBI records that the next thing Abedin did, after “express[ing] her amazement at the president’s use of a pseudonym,” was to “ask if she could have a copy of the email.”
 
Abedin knew an insurance policy when she saw one. If Obama himself had been e-mailing over a non-government, non-secure system, then everyone else who had been doing it had a get-out-of-jail-free card.
 
-- from Obama’s Conflict Tanked the Clinton E-mail Investigation (Nationa Review), Andrew McCarthy Sep 26, 2016
 
Thus, Obama corruption and ineptitude ensured that the E-mail investigation was NEVER going to go anywhere.  Hillary and Abedin knew it from day one.
 
Deja vu all over again...
TexasLynn Added Jul 23, 2018 - 4:19pm
Leroy >> I don't think Congress will allow a former member and president to be dragged into it, especially the first "black" president. 
 
Exactly... the GOP lacks the balls to affect real change.  Trump is on his own when it comes to draining the swamp.  He'll have to fight all of Washington and I just don't think even he is up to THAT task.
 
Leroy >> And, if it does, all O has to do is pull the race card.  The media will protect him. 
 
Exactly.  We're on the same page.  No one of any importance (on the left or within the deep state) will be prosecuted.
 
Again, I offer two words… Lois Lerner...
 
Déjà vu all over again… are we starting to see the pattern?
Leroy Added Jul 23, 2018 - 5:31pm
"Again, I offer two words… Lois Lerner..."
 
She must know low people in high places.
Thomas Sutrina Added Jul 23, 2018 - 6:06pm
Neil Lock >> In this case, in my view, the Russians are probably just scapegoats.  The emails we now see published by some of the media seem to present a picture of the political players in the government departments seeking to improve their power.   The completion of the American Transformation by Hillary R. Clinton.
 
Anyone that has examined communism take over of governments knows that the departments of government wheel tremendous power once the voters have little.  Anyone that followed the progress from Wilson, FDR, LBJ, up to Obama.  They saw the Constitution being changed by activist judges.  They saw achievement of the Second Bill of Rights by the courts and bureaucracies instead of Amendment process.  They saw the un-weaving of the Constitution in progress.  
 
The Media and upper management of departments jumped the gun and promoted by unconstitutional means the tainting of the election in favor of Hillary Clinton.  The Media CHOSE DONALD J. TRUMP and with that successful campaign thought they determined the outcome of the election.   Trump in actuality is the man the media thought he was, tweets and speeches are as expected.  What has not expected is the response of the people that have not rejected him. 
 
So with the win of Trump they became exposed to criminal prosecution.  What we have witnessed it the attempt to hobble the political justice system that will expose them in courts of law.  They must take control of one house of Congress.  
 
The problem is that the Transformation of America with the loss of Congress by Obama was happening too slowly and the transformation harmed too many people.  Economic failure that thrust FDR and Democrats in to power for 85 years they thought would happen again after 2008 bubble collapse.  FDR use of welfare to mask a poor economic recovery couldn't happen with our debt, taxation level, and mature welfare programs. 
 
The bureaucrats are use to ignoring the voters, thought the media could always purchase the votes needed.  They didn't see that Obama was steady loosing votes, loosing seats in Congress and that the tread would continue.  The candidate put up against the Democrats were not significantly better.  They didn't understand that Trump didn't have to be a significantly better then Hillary to win.
James Travil Added Jul 23, 2018 - 6:10pm
I'm of the opinion that certain Russian oppratives, be they civilians or government affiliates, put primarily truthful information on social media to influence the election, sure. I agree that this is far from "hacking the election". As a matter of fact the only supposed hacking was of the DNC servers, but apparently we will never know who if anyone hacked (or Leaked) the truthful information about the DNC rigging the primarys for Hillary because the DNC has repeatedly refused to turn over their servers to the FBI or any legitimate government agency for forensic testing. Thus unless someone is claiming that the intelligence community used magic or psychic power perhaps there is no way that they can know what really happened there. As for the rest of the McCarthyite Russiagate nonsense it is indeed all political warfare and evidence-free narrative. A big nothingburger in the eyes of everyone except the neoliberal establishment cronies of the Democratic Party and the corporate mainstream media outlets they control. 
Thomas Sutrina Added Jul 23, 2018 - 6:19pm
Please not that the bureaucrats actually caused the Great Depression and the housing market bubble that burst in 2008. 
 
The newly formed Federal Reserve to solve the problem of bank regulations that prevented diversity, (Canada had larger banks that diversified a crossed the nation didn't experience bank failures).  It was the bank that would prevent banks runs.  The fact are that about three waves of bank runs happened and the fourth was stopped by FDR's bank 'holiday' where he closed many small banks and thus created in effect more diversification.   Those bankers, now FR regulators, making the decisions that improved the position of their large banks.
 
Regulations to not discriminate meant anyone could get a loan started under Carter (Reagan didn't have a Congress to stop this).   The poor were being discriminated against so the government force the banks to lend them money.   The Banks sold the bad loans to Fanny and Freddy and eventually other investment houses.  All approved by the bureaucracy that was following political orders. 
Dave Dubya Added Jul 23, 2018 - 6:19pm
The Media CHOSE DONALD J. TRUMP, Thomas declares.
 
They sure went about the wrong way. 
 
https://www.cjr.org/analysis/fake-news-media-election-trump.php
 
Columbia Journalism Review
 
It seems incredible that only five out of 150 front-page articles that The New York Times ran over the last, most critical months of the election, attempted to compare the candidate’s policies, while only 10 described the policies of either candidate in any detail...
 
In just six days, The New York Times ran as many cover stories about Hillary Clinton’s emails as they did about all policy issues combined in the 69 days leading up to the election.
 
...50 percent of Trump supporters believed rumors that Hillary Clinton was running a pedophilia sex ring
Dave Dubya Added Jul 23, 2018 - 6:24pm
Trump Derangement Syndrome: Being more obsessed, angry, and upset by Hillary's emails than by Trump siding with Putin against two bi-partisan Senate committees, Trump's own Director of National Intelligence, the FBI and the CIA.
 
THAT's how wacked out your cult has become. 
Saying "CNN is not as partisan" is just not even remotely intellectually honest.
 
Only Trump, FOX(R) and their indoctrinated cult believe this.
 
Here’s the deal. FOX NEVER admits to Trump’s lies. CNN reports the lies and explains WHY they are lies. One is “biased” toward truth, the other clearly a propaganda agency for the Party of Trump.
 
Dave Dubya >> “Once you take the words of Trump as truth, all hope for reasonable fact-based dialogue is gone. Bias and loyalty prevail.”
 
And were off into Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) land. (No bias there, LOL)
 
Um, you’re telling me, my calling Trump a liar is derangement, but TELLING the lies and trusting the liar are NOT derangement. Got it. And everybody other than Moonies are all a big cult.
 
Personally, I think this President has some serious character flaws...
Yathink? How about being a pathological liar?
 
Equating that to "inviting hacking" is some of that bias... What Trump said above is equivalent to exactly what I said just now… “So, whoever leaked the DNC, and Hillary’s dirty laundry... God bless you.  Please; find and release more.” Um, no. “Russia if you’re listening” is a direct invitation to a foreign adversary to get involved in our elections.  True Trump Derangement Syndrome misses that point.
 
The Trump Tower meeting with Russian agents... are you ready?....It Happened.  And it wasn’t about “adoptions”. But you believe that, don’t you? Of course you do. You have no choice.
 
How about we let Mueller investigate for as long as Email and Benghazi were investigated. Fair? He can investigate as long as he wants
 
Thank you.
 
Mueller is a Republican.
 
Yeah, DD, and I'm a fiddler crab. 

 
Whether or not you are a crab, Mueller is a Republican. He is also a decorated Marine, loyal to his country over the Party of Trump, and appointed by George W. Bush. Now you’re calling him a partisan liar. You have All The Answers.
 
Tell me you don't think Meuller would have one question concerning Stormy Daniels if he got Trump in the hot seat. Mueller is not investigating that case. He has other questions for Trump, who’s terrified of a “perjury trap” like all pathological liars would be. This is NOT Mueller's investigation. His only “fingerprints” are referring it to the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York.
 
Again: Trump started the whole thing by calling Daniels a liar, remember? He lied. She sued. Deal with it. Or keep shrieking about the Big Conspiracy of Trump Derangement Syndrome.
 
Let’s see what else is in that Senate report:
 
“One Voice did not use State Department funds directly for political activities, or seek State Department grants in anticipation of the Israeli elections.”
 
You have already assumed Obama directed the grants to go to the election. You have no evidence, and Likud couldn’t prove anything.
 
But, after all, you have All the Answers.
 
Like Trump and Putin are the REAL scapegoat victims.
 
 
Ken Added Jul 23, 2018 - 6:25pm
TL - you are missing a fine point in your definition of collusion.  it isn't just working with a foreign entity, but you also have to be aware that they are acting in the interest of that foreign entity.  While they were contacted by representatives of Russia - the Russians were posing as Americans with false identities and all.  If they had received any information, this still would not have been collusion as they had no idea it was a Russian they were dealing with.
 
The real stink of this investigation is it is clear where the collusion happened and likely illegal events - like presenting an unverified dossier that was "opposition research" to the FISA court and pretending it was legitimate information.
 
That is what people are generally catching on to now is how one sided it has been.  It isn't investigating "collusion with russia", it is attempting to lay out a case for impeachment.
Ken Added Jul 23, 2018 - 6:27pm
James - As a matter of fact the only supposed hacking was of the DNC servers,
 
Actually, th is is inaccurate.  If you look at the indictment handed down on the russians last week, you will see on page 37 where they also attempted to hack the RNC servers, they just weren't successful
James Travil Added Jul 23, 2018 - 6:35pm
Problem is Ken the indictment includes no evidence. Like I said before Russiagate is all political warfare and narrative. Narrative as in important people speaking with strong authority and self-assurance while making official proclamations and indictments...but that is all. It's all words no evidence. 
Ken Added Jul 23, 2018 - 6:43pm
True James, but interesting how no news is mentioning that at all isn't it?  It is still all "woe is the DNC, those dirty republicans!"
Ryan Messano Added Jul 23, 2018 - 7:05pm
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 23, 2018 - 9:02pm
My simple answer to this is I don't know and want to wait until all this is over.  The fact that multiple indictments are being handed out says a lot to me.  I encourage Mueller to keep digging and get to the bottom of all of this.
 
Did Putin interfere with the election?  Yep.  Did it really make a difference?  Nope.  Enough Americans bought into the greasy used car salesman act Trump successfully pushed.
 
Did the Russians hack stuff?  Yup.  Do the Chinese, North Koreans and Iranians do the same?  Yup.  Why Obama didn't do the same disgusts me.  If it was me I'd spike them until they screamed for mercy and if they whined about it do it some more until they stopped.  Whatever they can do we can sure as hell do it better.
 
Leroy Added Jul 23, 2018 - 9:03pm
"Mueller is a Republican."
 
So is Comey, and he is calling for Republicans to vote Democrat--just not for the looney left ones.  The Deep State has both Republicans and Democrats. 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 23, 2018 - 9:12pm
Well, when a Republican tells Republicans to vote Democrat that shows me a Republican with good common sense.
Rusty Smith Added Jul 23, 2018 - 9:24pm
I'm not a young kid and I can't remember a time when Russian spying was not a fact of life.  Our own prisons are full of Americans who got caught cooperating.  Why would they stop trying to spy on us and or influence our politics now?  Of course they are, and if you count actions by Russian citizens who may or may not have anything to do with government officials, heck this is the internet age isn't it?
 
China does the same all the time, so it's no secret that there are attempts made all the time, and just because they are trying as hard as they can doesn't mean anyone in the US takes the bait.
 
We know representatives from other countries rub shoulders with our politicians all the time, we also hope our politicians aren't willing to give away the store to them.  They are no more or less than lobbyists that represent foreign interests.
 
Since Trump was elected the news media has been on a witch hunt looking for any evidence that would show Trump knowingly worked with Russian representatives to subvert our election process.  They have had many sensationalized discoveries but all were no more or less than Russian attempts to get to Trump or someone else that might have been able to influence the election and who might have been willing to work with them to corrupt it.
 
The reason Trump was so arrogant about not having a Russian connection is that he never did.  End of story.
 
Trump doesn't even have a foundation they could contribute to in order to solicit special treatment if they wanted to.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 23, 2018 - 9:24pm
They are all creatures of washington, doesnt matter the party. I warned about Comey and Mueller months ago. There will be more revealed and it's not going to be on Trump
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 23, 2018 - 9:34pm
All signs point to Trump.  I got my popcorn out ready to enjoy.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 23, 2018 - 9:38pm
Make sure you have water. You know. Popcorn. It's easy to choke on.
Ryan Messano Added Jul 23, 2018 - 9:47pm
Jeffrey, it's not Trump.  The Democrats are guilty of treason. You'll  see.  There are massive indictments already being prepared. The Democrats and their media are panicking because they know what they face.  They are desperately hoping to capture these midterms to escape their punishment.  This explains their energy and enthusiasm in trying to whip up the population and rabble rouse, their party will literally be destroyed if they don't win.  The problem is, the American public is so badly uninformed and is so corrupt, the Democrats actually have a chance of retaining power. 
 
How to destroy America.
TexasLynn Added Jul 23, 2018 - 11:06pm
Thomas >> The Media CHOSE DONALD J. TRUMP... They didn't understand that Trump didn't have to be a significantly better then Hillary to win.
 
I don't know, Thomas, that's giving a lot of credit to a lot of people who are abject morons on the TV screen.  Of course, the talking heads and pundits on MSNBC and CNN (yes CNN) probably weren't the ones making those decisions.  It's still a stretch for me...
 
You are correct that the federal government caused the housing bubble and the collapse that followed.  I will say this was caused mostly by the left... but the GOP lacked the balls to correct it.  It all had to do with politicians wanting everyone to participate in the American dream (owning a home).  Thus, they guaranteed loans for those who couldn't afford houses and forced banks to make the loans.  This was fine so long as housing prices were going up... people just flipped them.  But as soon as that process ground to a stop; these borrowers were stuck with a house they couldn't afford... Multiply that by tens (if not hundreds) of thousands and you get a major national disaster.
 
Then... the government and politicians blamed the banks...
TexasLynn Added Jul 23, 2018 - 11:06pm
James T >> Russians put out information on social media...
 
I think that has been proven... but I was against both sides AND a drop in the ocean compared to other such spending.  If THAT was the best they had, we can sleep sound that they are no threat.
 
James T >> I agree that this is far from "hacking the election".
 
Glad to see a few people still out there that can look at this objectively.
 
James T >> As a matter of fact the only supposed hacking was of the DNC servers,
 
Correct... and accounts (like email) for a few Hillary cronies.  My understanding is the "hack" was easy since security was only barely above non-existent.  We're talking stuff like passwords being "password".
 
James T >> ...but apparently we will never know who
 
Yep... the Dems had their knickers aired out for all to see, yet they wanted absolutely no one to see anything on those servers.  It’s like a kid vandalizing your car that has a trunk full of dope.  “No officer, no charges, kids will be kids, let’s just move along… OK?” :)

 
James T >> As for the rest of the McCarthyite Russiagate nonsense it is indeed all political warfare and evidence-free narrative. A big nothingburger...
 
But it is serving its purpose as is evident by the blind obedience of those CNN crowd.
TexasLynn Added Jul 23, 2018 - 11:06pm
Dave Dubya >> Um, you’re telling me, my calling Trump a liar is derangement...
 
No, I'm telling you that when one says, "Once you take the words of Trump as truth, all hope for reasonable fact-based dialogue is gone”  THAT is Trump derangement.
 
I love the way you guys (leftist) say one thing... get called on it... then protest and revise what you originally said.  Opher Goodwin is a master of this.  Does he teach a class or something in such misdirection?  It’s like plying three-card monte… You all seem very "qualified" in this skill.
 
Dave Dubya >> The Trump Tower meeting with Russian agents... are you ready?....It Happened.
 
Yeah, dumbass it happened.  Did it happen the way you've decided it did or is that just bias and wishful thinking on your part?  Are you ready to take your blinders off and really think... or are you going to stick to the CNN spoon fed narrative?
 
Is it possible the Trump guys got there, saw what it was and walked out?  It is possible the Trump guys got there heard them out and never followed up (or said no thanks)?  It is possible the Trump guys got there, heard them out and took them up on the deal? (Note, these are the three unbiased scenarios I presented).
 
The answer to all three is yes.  But practically nobody (especially you and me) know which one happened.  So quite pretending your CNN narrative is the only option here.
 
Dave Dubya >> He is also a decorated Marine, loyal to his country over the Party of Trump
 
God bless him for his service... NOW he's a partisan deep state hack.
 
Comey said he was a Republican too... don't forget; and any Republican who ever thought about voting for a Democrat was NEVER really a Republican… which Comey is now advocating.
 
I guess you also believe when a dude cuts off his junk, he's a woman and not a eunuch or does he even have to go that far?
TexasLynn Added Jul 23, 2018 - 11:08pm
Ken, I was not aware of that assertion (that the Russians had not identified themselves as foreign).  But you are correct that knowledge of their true identity would be a requirement for breaking the law.  Being duped by foreign agents is not a crime.
 
In my usual objective manner, I would question the assertion and would appreciate any source you have on this.
 
Ken >> The real stink of this investigation is it is clear where the collusion happened and likely illegal events - like presenting an unverified dossier that was "opposition research" to the FISA court and pretending it was legitimate information.
 
Though I'm sure Dave missed that on CNN... the release of the FISA warrants today showed that
1) former FBI Director James Comey
2) Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein
3) former FBI Directory Andrew McCabe (and)
4) former Attorney General Sally Yates
all committed crimes by signing affidavits to get the warrants knowing they lied about the dossier being opposition research paid for by the DNC and Clinton.
 
But... like Lois Lerner, none of these guys will ever see justice.  The deep state and the likes of CNN has their backs.
 
Ken >> It isn't investigating "collusion with russia", it is attempting to lay out a case for impeachment.
 
I think your right, and Mueller would like nothing better than to catch Trump in perjury like Bill Clinton committed.  Trump would be a fool to talk to the man.
 
Ken >> That is what people are generally catching on to now is how one sided it has been.
 
Maybe, their catching one... I've heard that on Fox news... I wonder if they've broached the subject on CNN?
EXPAT Added Jul 23, 2018 - 11:28pm
Collusion/Delusion/Confusion. There are over 200 Secret service organizations. They all spy thru their Embassy, and engage in industrial espionage. Now add Cyber spying and hacking.
 
The only question is to what degree they influence the function of a Nation. There have been dozens of articles on WB about how USA has interfered in other sovereign nations throughout history, even overthrow of unfriendly governments. most by the same people who now claim Russia has been successful in influencing the 2016 presidential election.
 
Did Russia try to impact USA elections? YES? Were they successful, NO! Did Hillary and the DNC,  ENABLE them to hack their activity by using illegal IT communications, instead of Official government protected channels? YES!  Did FBI, CIA, Homeland Security agencies, prevent this illegal activity by Democraps? NO!
 
Yet the left wants economic sanctions or worse, war with Russia, because of their bungled attempts to influence the election. Were they on the Clintons side, who they paid Millions of dollars, and got 20% of USA uranium for, or were they on the Trump side, knowing Trump was a threat to their main source of income, Fossil Fuels. HMMMM. Not a tough question.
 
So either our Intelligence Agencies are incompetent, look at Clapper, Brennen, Comey, Strock and whore, and you tell me. They got us into a war with Iraq by reporting they had Weapons of Mass Destruction, had Bill bomb an Aspirin Factory they said was a chemical weapons plant, and recently had a hospital bombed in Syria, that they said was ISIS headquarters.
 
Going by their refusal to co operate with investigating congress, hiding documents, turning over 5 pages of blacked out data over FISA warrant on Trump, etc. etc. etc.
IS IT REALLY TREASON FOR TRUMP TO TELL VLADIMIR, HE BELIEVES HIM?
 
By the way. All major nations collude. Trade agreements, business alliances, political cooperation and foreign policy!
EXPAT Added Jul 23, 2018 - 11:37pm
P.S. I am reveling in the new McCarthy hearings, called Russian collusion investigation. Mueller and McCarthy are two hands clapping. It is hysterical that the left is now looking for Russian (used to be Communist) conspiracy and collusion, and the Right is defending political process.
Did Trump really piss in somebody's bed. Stormy Daniels thinks so!
TexasLynn Added Jul 24, 2018 - 12:02am
JK >> My simple answer to this is I don't know and want to wait until all this is over. 
 
Good for you JK... just try to keep an open mind. :)
 
Like I said, I don't expect anything out of the investigation, unless Trump falls for a little perjury trap... but I could be wrong.
 
I'm less impressed concerning the indictments since there is very little Russian collusion stuff there.
 
JK >> Did Putin interfere with the election?  Yep.  Did it really make a difference?  Nope. 
 
That's is a fair enough assessment in my opinion.  I think the interference was ineffectual.  No votes were changed.  Airing dirty Dem laundry was about all I saw.
 
JK >> Enough Americans bought into the greasy used car salesman act Trump successfully pushed.
 
You're doing good... :)  Ease up on the TDS just a little. :)  You hate Trump... people who don't are idiots... got it.
 
JK >> Did the Russians hack stuff?  Yup.  Do the Chinese, North Koreans and Iranians do the same?  Yup. Why Obama didn't do the same disgusts me. 
 
We do... he did...  Obama was preoccupied with his Iran deal... his legacy.  He knew what was happening, knew Hillary was a shoe-in; so, he just let it go.
 
JK >> If it was me I'd spike them until they screamed for mercy and if they whined about it do it some more until they stopped.  Whatever they can do we can sure as hell do it better.
 
Daaaannng!  Homes!  :)
 
Obama lacked the one key ingredient to make anything like that happen.  Cojones.  Balls.  He never had 'em.
 
Do you see the irony in the fact that the current President does have ‘em and yet that is one of the reasons you can't stand him? :)
 
Karma... she's a %$#@!
TexasLynn Added Jul 24, 2018 - 12:03am
Leroy >> So is Comey, and he is calling for Republicans to vote Democrat -- just not for the looney left ones. 
 
Did he actually clarify?
 
Not that it matters... how many not looney left Dems are left?  Two?  Three?
 
Leroy >> The Deep State has both Republicans and Democrats.
 
Exactly... the GOP is as big a part of the problem as the Democrats.  Worse, since they're disingenuous about their alliances.
 
TBH >> They are all creatures of washington, doesnt matter the party. I warned about Comey and Mueller months ago. There will be more revealed and it's not going to be on Trump
 
I wait with baited breath.  I'm the ultimate pessimist (or maybe realist), but if TBH says it... dare I?  Can there really be some hope? :)
 
JK >> Well, when a Republican tells Republicans to vote Democrat that shows me a Republican with good common sense.
 
It shows you a RINO.
TexasLynn Added Jul 24, 2018 - 12:03am
Ryan M >> There are massive indictments already being prepared.
 
Who is preparing them?  Sessions?  I doubt that.
 
I can't help but be skeptical... I don't mean to beat a dead horse; but we are well over a year into Trumps presidency and Lois Lerner is a free, un-indicted woman.
 
Ryan M >> The Democrats and their media are panicking because they know what they face.
 
I hope your right, but my faith is failing.  I've seen it way too many times before.  Each side sees the ultimate demise of the other… and… and… never mind.
 
One problem is that the left doesn't even have to capture the House or Senate... all they have to do is rely on the GOP to do nothing, which they are very consistent in doing.
 
Ryan M >> They are desperately hoping to capture these midterms to escape their punishment.  This explains their energy and enthusiasm in trying to whip up the population and rabble rouse,
 
And I think they are likely to succeed.  The problem being Trump is not on the ballot and the GOP is as hated as ever.
 
Capture the House and ALL these pesky little investigations and threats of impeachment go away.  ALL of this just goes away in November.  Right now, their chances are well above 50/50.
TexasLynn Added Jul 24, 2018 - 12:03am
Well the investigations go away... the impeachment becomes real... no doubt about it.
 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 24, 2018 - 12:05am
@The Burghal Hidage:
 
I prefer popcorn with unsweetened tea and a lot of lemon.  I used to like it with Coke but can't drink it anymore.
 
Trump's flop sweat and psychotic Twitter rants tell me everything I need to know.
Dave Dubya Added Jul 24, 2018 - 12:22am
Every time I read Ryan, I mentally substitute "Jew" for "liberal and democrat". Then he sounds just like someone with a silly mustache.
 
"Once you take the words of Trump as truth, all hope for reasonable fact-based dialogue is gone” THAT is Trump derangementSo believing Trump’s lies qualifies for fact-based dialogue? Just because Trump says Democrats, liberals, smart Republicans, or anyone who disagrees with Putin want war with Russia, and you regurgitate it, you call US deranged? 
 
We know FOX(R) won’t tell you, and in case you haven’t figured it out yet, Trump is a pathological liar. Gullible dupes, rubes, illiterates, greedheads, Nazis, Klansmen, white supremacists and crazed puritanical bigots all believe that shit-hole mouth.  And you call me dumbass? 
 
The Trump Tower meeting with Russian agents... are you ready?....It Happened.
 
Yeah, dumbass it happened.  LOL! You don’t even know a smart-ass when he’s annoying you with facts and reason.
 
Is it possible? Yes. Love the expert spin. Is it possible you believe liars? Yes. Is it possible you hate those who don't believe the lies? Yes. Is it possible you are a Right-wing authoritarian personality? Yes.
 
Thanks for fact free gibberish and deflection.  
 
any Republican who ever thought about voting for a Democrat was NEVER really a Republican Fallacy. No true Scotsman! Aye!
 
Like former Bush campaign manager Steve Schmidt, there are a LOT of decent Republicans that have decided to #walkaway from the Party of Trump.
 
Oops. Didn’t mean to steal your latest Russian bot program.
 
Is it possible? Yes.
 
“Fake News” tells us:
 
“ #WalkAway has also now been connected to Kremlin-linked Russian bots, and it is now the seventh most popular Russia-influenced hashtag as of this writing, according to the website Hamilton 68, which tracks Russian influence on Twitter as part of the Alliance for Securing Democracy, an initiative of the nonpartisan German Marshall Fund. The purpose of this now-astroturf campaign is to manipulate public opinion by creating the illusion that this is a popular movement. In reality, #WalkAway has become pure propaganda, a psychological operation.”
 
Carry on Komrad Tex! Vlad loves you. You are a good Russian agent, participating in a Russian disinformation campaign. Just like Putin's Puppet.
 
Here's a Republican who gets it:
 
The president’s failure to defend the United States intelligence community’s unanimous conclusions of Russian meddling in the 2016 election and condemn Russian covert counterinfluence campaigns and his standing idle on the world stage while a Russian dictator spouted lies confused many but should concern all Americans. By playing into Vladimir Putin’s hands, the leader of the free world actively participated in a Russian disinformation campaign that legitimized Russian denial and weakened the credibility of the United States to both our friends and foes abroad. -  Will Hurd, Republican congressman from Texas
 
they lied about the dossier being opposition research paid for by the DNC and Clinton. Betcha can’t show us the lie.
James Travil Added Jul 24, 2018 - 12:34am
"Carry on Komrad Tex! Vlad loves you. You are a good Russian agent, participating in a Russian disinformation campaign. Just like Putin's Puppet."
Well looks like Dave just gave up on conducting a serious debate. When the arguments fail Russophobic McCarthyites like Dave resort to McCarthyism Ad Hominem garbage like this, it's an appeal to ignorance, racism,  and basic immaturity over reason. Typical of neoliberal slime. Then again Russiagate and it's small minded proponents are rooted in racism, homophobia and zenophobia. 
Dave Dubya Added Jul 24, 2018 - 12:50am
James,
 
You're angry. I feel your hate. Truth cuts, doesn't it Komrad?
 
Why didn't you call me "dumbass" too, like Tex did? That was some good "non-McCarthyism Ad Hominem garbage" if I ever saw it.
 
What I like is a lot of projection, and "non-McCarthyism Ad Hominem garbage" like Russophobic McCarthyite.
 
I see you still haven't learned what "neoliberal" means. 
 
 
TexasLynn Added Jul 24, 2018 - 12:56am
Dave D >> Betcha can’t show us the lie.
 
#$^!  Are you that dense!  The affidavit is the lie.  We're not talking about a little fib.  We're talking career ending mistakes here.
 
Dave D >> Carry on Komrad Tex! Vlad loves you.
 
That's all you got.  Why not "I know you are, but what am I!?"
 
JT >> Well looks like Dave just gave up on conducting a serious debate. 
 
It's kind of disappointing isn't it.  I feel bad for Autumn trying to find leftist that can hold a candle on this site.  Kind of like Diogenes at a trial lawyers convention.
Dave Dubya Added Jul 24, 2018 - 1:00am
The affidavit is the lie.
 
So I've heard. Show me the lie. By that I mean you need to disprove it with facts. The burden is on the accuser.
 
Even trial lawyers know that. 
 
Good luck, stable genius.
TexasLynn Added Jul 24, 2018 - 1:45am
Dave Dubwa >> Show me the lie. By that I mean you need to disprove it with facts. The burden is on the accuse
 
Not that this will matter one bit to a CNN Kool-aid drinker... but (for the benefit of others reading this thread) ...
 
As required by statute (50 U.S.C.), a FISA order on an American citizen must be renewed by the ISC every 90 days and each renewal requires a separate finding of probable cause.
 
Those listed who signed the FISA warrant applications KNEW that what it was based on (the unsubstantiated Steele opposition research dossier) was nothing more than research opposition coming from the DNC and Hillary Clinton.
 
They (those signing and vouching for probable cause) withheld this information from the judges who approved the warrants INSTEAD depicting the dossier as coming for independent, reliable sources.  Even your boys (the FBI cabal) admitted it would not have been approved otherwise.
 
Withholding this information was criminal and should have ended each and every one of their careers.  Had they been Republican... it would have already have happened.
EXPAT Added Jul 24, 2018 - 2:35am
Dubya or W. Bush.
Why didn't you call me "dumbass" too, like Tex did? That was some good "non-McCarthyism Ad Hominem garbage" if I ever saw it.
 
What I like is a lot of projection, and "non-McCarthyism Ad Hominem garbage" like Russophobic McCarthyite.
 
I see you still haven't learned what "neoliberal" means. 
 
I see you read my comment, and as usual, try to mimic it, by reversing it.
The Parrot that gets it backwards.
                                        

EXPAT Added Jul 23, 2018 - 11:37pm

 



P.S. I am reveling in the new McCarthy hearings, called Russian collusion investigation. Mueller and McCarthy are two hands clapping. It is hysterical that the left is now looking for Russian (used to be Communist) conspiracy and collusion, and the Right is defending political process.
Did Trump really piss in somebody's bed. Stormy Daniels thinks so!

 
Dr. Rupert Green Added Jul 24, 2018 - 4:15am
Star Trex explains it all. Well... from the measure of it, the US will not meddle in other countries' election again.  Because flight manifests listing millions of Russians coming to the US at the time of the election would evidence possible interference,  the interference case would have legs. No one has provided the same. Thus, I have asked if the Enterprise secretly beamed over millions of Russians who voted and influenced our election.
 
The problem, the Russians would have to be proficient in English, political science, and US geography. Such would be needed to read the voting instruction, read US politics to understand about the Electoral College, and to have knowledge of geography to materialize/land in key states.  Of course, because those Ruskies would stand out in the 'hoods, there would be a need for cloaking.  
 
The Americans lack such technology, but the Romulans/Russians do.
Not a likely scenario. Thus, the one branded in my community: The Russians rigged the electronic voting system. 
The Democrats are hellbent on seeking revenge for Trump's world shocking defeat of them. Pink pussies have not brought him down, the persecution of men with me too has not, students marching to take away the Second from adult Americans have not.  Additionally, removing the embassy in Isreal and defusing a nuclear war have not.  Trying to be friendly with the Russians is a Dems hope for the president trial for treason. However, all hope lies in a Mueller investigation. 
 
Disconcertingly, President Trump is the pilot of Flight USA 1, on which all Americans are passengers. Yet, about 50% percent of the passengers are hoping for the captain fail and crash, Talk about cutting off oxygen to spite the nose. Such action is a radical departure from that where Americans were distrustful of their government but they made themselves governable because they wanted to see it succeed.
 
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 7:49am
Hit your rewind button on all those mountains of A/V record, go back to the time of the democratic convention in 2016. Listen to democrat leadership and their bound concubines in media and hear it in their own words......listen to what they were saying and make careful note of when they were saying it.  Your answer begins there. Reconstruct the rest of what we know from that context and you will start to smell the truth
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 8:04am
there are reasons over and above partisan politics that the DNC and Hillary could not allow the content of their servers to be revealed. Its amusing to me that out of the volumes of texts obtained through the IG there is one thqt keeps getting a lot of play, and it is this:  the insurance policy. That insurance policy was the FBI. You can get rid of Comey and Clapper and Brennan, but this alone does not remove the stain they have left on their departments. There are too many people in washington that will be implicated criminally if the truth gets out. The entire Russian narrative had already been spun up. They had all been confident that Hillary was in and they would all be safe.
There was all kinds of collusion going on and it wasn't with the Trump team.  The wikileaks releases began to come on hot and heavy after they began painting the Russian bogeyman. And now Mueller is beginning to farm out all of his investigations, plotting an exit with clean hands. Meanwhile the Ecuadorans are planning to remove their protection on Julian Assange. Connect those dots.
 
I never said there would be more prosecutions, though there should be. I only said more would be revealed. I could, of course, be wrong, but... We shall see
Leroy Added Jul 24, 2018 - 8:11am
"They (those signing and vouching for probable cause) withheld this information from the judges who approved the warrants INSTEAD depicting the dossier as coming for independent, reliable sources.  Even your boys (the FBI cabal) admitted it would not have been approved otherwise."
 
I suspect the judges were in on the gig. Sure.  The applications were a lie.  Each successive application was a copy of the previous one with some exculpatory revelations and FBI justifications for ignoring it.  I assumed the judges do more than read the applications.  The FBI, no doubt, has to do a little dance before the judge--the FBI has Talent.  If the deficiencies are so obvious to us, the judges, the experts, should have easily picked it up.  No.  They were in on the gig.  The FBI didn't have to make a truthful application; all it had to do is provide enough to cover the rear ends of the judges.  The judges aren't pissed off for being lied to.  They knew it.   The FBI is not the problem here; it is the secret court.  It's time to abolish the secret court.  If we need such a court, let's do it in the light rather than cloaked in secrecy.  When it is done in the dark, we can assume corruption.  The secret court is anti-American.  It is against everything America stands (stood) for.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 8:18am
Think people!  Where did Assange get a lot of his info? And who was in charge when he obtained it?
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 8:22am
remember that originally most of wikileaks' releases would appear have been designed to embarrass the Bush administration. Somewhere along the way that started to turn. Look at the timing of this. The whole Russia thing serves an additional purpose. How many times did you hear (perhaps still hear) that Assanges sources were Russian? And that he was working with the Russians? It was easy to spin him into that narrative. And until just recent developments in the embassy Assange has been rather quiet, hasn't he. Shouldn't you ask yourself why that is?
Dave Dubya Added Jul 24, 2018 - 8:36am
Those listed who signed the FISA warrant applications KNEW that what it was based on (the unsubstantiated Steele opposition research dossier) was nothing more than research opposition coming from the DNC and Hillary Clinton.
 
"Unsubstantiated"? Not the part that claimed Russian agents were in contact with Trump cronies. That's the key, not the damn piss tape.
 
What you ignore is Steele's information was NOT the sole basis of the FISA warrant. You are being dishonest.
 
Steele shared his information with the FBI, as he should have.
 
They knew who Steele was, and knew he was a reliable MI 6 expert on Russia.  His intel was used in past Republican PDBs. 
 
He's no Alex Jones. Sorry.
 
The information did not come from the DNC or Clinton. And he did not directly work for the DNC. He was sub-contracted.
 
Still Putin likely has Kompromat on Trump. It is the most logical explanation for Trump's Helsinki betrayal.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 9:01am
Strange days have found us....
Leroy Added Jul 24, 2018 - 9:53am
"What you ignore is Steele's information was NOT the sole basis of the FISA warrant. You are being dishonest."
 
Did you read the applications?  I did.  Everything in the applications is directly or indirectly related to the Steele dossier.  Some of the information comes from those associated with the Clinton campaign and the DNC, but they are also sources to the dossier.  You are being dishonest or, more likely, you are just uninformed.
 
"Steele shared his information with the FBI, as he should have."
 
Why should a biased, foreign agent get involved in the US elections.?  Why should he go to the US media with the same information against his agreement with the FBI because he feared Clinton might lose?  This is collusion with the Clinton campaign, pure and simple.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 10:24am
Everything in the applications is directly or indirectly related to the Steele dossier.  Some of the information comes from those associated with the Clinton campaign and the DNC, but they are also sources to the dossier.
 
Thank you Leroy, you have swerved into it.
 
One of those "other" sources you reference was a story on Yahoo News. Not really a surprise, but.... hear this.
 
On the night of June 14 2016 MSNBC broke into their regular broadcast with Brian Williams to make the startling announcement that the DNC servers had been hacked by " what US intelligence sources are telling us was a state agent", to wit Russia.
And they just happened to already have in studio with them a Mr. Shawn Henry of the cybersecurity firm Crowdstrike. Mr. Henry, oft citing his previous experience in the "bureau" proceeded to map out what became the Russian narrative. It is worth noting that Mr. Henry did indeed previously work as AD of the Criminal, Cybersecurity, Response and service branch of the FBI, until joining Crowdstrike in April of 2012. I do not know this to be fact, but probability favors that Mr. Henry worked with Agent Strokin' off at some point during that tenure. 
 
As reported that evening the story had originated from the Washington Post and had been corroborated by NBC news. In this opening narrative on the incident both Mr. Henry and Brian Williams went to some pains to emphasize that the breach had almost certainly obtained the DNC oppo research on Trump, but that no financial details had been compromised.  The purpose of including that detail would be?
 
Now back to Yahoo News. In the midst of the DNC convention in July of 2016 Michael Issikoff is introduced on the CBS News as a guest, identified as the chief investigative reporter for? Yahoo News! hmm.
 
In offering his expertise to this discussion Mr. Issikoff introduces Paul Manafort into the discussion. He also discloses that the FBI had already initiated an investigation prior to the hack event announced in June, that it had initiated a Counter-intelligence investigation in May after having been alerted to suspected state agent hacking attempts occurring that month and as far back as 2015.
 
If you sit through the entire 8:13 clip you get to hear Issikoff also introduce Mr. Assange into this narrative and even suggests that they should all expect to see "embarrassing releases coming from Wikileaks in October on the eve of the election"
 
None of this is some bull shit from the Alex Jones channel. You can easily find all of this on youtube or from archives of both MSNBC and CBS news and it is all in their own words. I'm sure you can find broadcasts which were almost verbatim from the other networks duing that same time period. 
 
Annnnddd....wasn't the FISA warrant application for Carter Page made in October of 2016?
TexasLynn Added Jul 24, 2018 - 10:25am
Dr. Green, as always you have a "unique" way of explaining it all. :)  But we must be careful in trying to use absurdity to make our points... this is the unhinged left we're dealing with.  Absurdity is just a double-dog dare to them.
 
Dr. Green >> The Democrats are hellbent on seeking revenge for Trump's world shocking defeat of them.
 
And that is what this is all about.  When they lost the Presidency, they thought it was something owed to them.  Little blood vessels bursts in the brains of these snowflakes all across the country.  They didn't even get a participation trophy.
 
Thus, we now a massive epidemic of Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) with no end in sight.
 
FYI to all out there.  Derangement Syndrome was a phrase first coined my Dr. Charles Krauthammer back in 2003.
 
Bush Derangement Syndrome: the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency -- nay -- the very existence of George W. Bush. -- Dr. Charles Krauthammer
 
Trump Derangement Syndrome is Bush Derangement Syndrome on steroids.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 10:27am
I think the entire Russia narrative was cooked up as an insurance against Assange. When the election went sideways, to the surprise of all including Assange, this was easily steered into the right hands within the FBI and the intelligence bureaus to be turned against Trump....because?  First instinct of washington is save your own ass
TexasLynn Added Jul 24, 2018 - 10:27am
TBH, thanks for connecting a few more of those dots. (Some of us need to be led to water).  I do think you're right in that there are many in the deep state with everything to lose if the truth gets out.  But that, to me, just ensures the truth will never get out.  So how is all the revealing going to happen?  It looks like to me that the villains are winning.  Sure there's a bit of unraveling here and there... but overall, things are going well for them.  After November it's likely all over as far as the truth getting out.
 
TBH >> Strange days have found us....
 
Isn't there an old Chinese curse... "May you live in interesting times"
TexasLynn Added Jul 24, 2018 - 10:27am
Leroy >> I suspect the judges were in on the gig.
 
It seems you are right.  I base that on one thing.  The judges aren't screaming to high heaven that they were duped.  There is only one explanation for that.
TexasLynn Added Jul 24, 2018 - 10:29am
Dave Dubya >> What you ignore is Steele's information was NOT the sole basis of the FISA warrant. You are being dishonest.
 
That is the CNN narrative.  It's wrong; or more precisely, it's misinformation.
 
The release of the actual warrants (in the last few days) has proven that the dossier WAS practically the sole basis of the FISA warrants.  Sure, they sprinkled a few other sources here and there for ass covering purposes; but the Steele dossier was practically it.
 
AND... those seeking the warrant, those signing the application, misled the court as to the source when they knew the truth.  This is called perjury.
 
Thanks Leroy for clarifying this.  I know we're fighting a losing battle here with Dave... It seems we are "casting pearls before swine".  (I'm not calling you a pig Dave... it's a biblical reference meaning wasting precious time and wisdom on those who choose not to hear.)
 
Dave Dubya >> The information did not come from the DNC or Clinton.
 
Correct.  They simply PAID for it.  The bought a product (of fiction) that Steele produced, directed, and wrote.
 
Dave, I know you don't get this kind of information from CNN.  All, I can tell you is ignorance is a blissful choice.  Keep sippin' your Kool-aid OR make an effort to get informed.  While I suspect the TDS is too far advanced for recovery, it's up to you.
 
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 10:34am
The smart thing here would be to extend asylum to Assange and offer him full immunity in exchange for his cooperation
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 10:37am
My guess would be some time after Labor Day, shortly after which Mrs. Clinton will suffer some medical event which will require her to enter a facility for long term care
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 10:38am
But hey! What do I know? :)
opher goodwin Added Jul 24, 2018 - 10:41am
Tex - the story that seems to be emerging over here is that Russia were involved in targeted interference with both the Trump election and Brexit. Their aim was to destabilise the West, divide the population and hasty decline. I think they achieved all that.
A side story is that they have video of Trump with hookers while in Russia (not denied by Putin) which enables them to control him.
Funny that the only two people he's cosied up to are Kim and Vlad.
Gerrilea Added Jul 24, 2018 - 10:43am
TexasLynn-- The Russian Collusion Theory was intended to remove Trump from office. To abrogate the will of the American people and our democracy through the career criminal sycophants that have infiltrated our government at all levels.
 
You've presented a great article and many of your comments have established the complete and utter fraud that it is.
 
Thanks for taking the time.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 10:44am
As if we needed their help!
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 10:45am
Opher come on! You know damn well if such a video existed it would be on TMZ!
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 10:46am
Funny that the only two people he's cosied up to are Kim and Vlad.
 
if hes so damned awful why should that matter? Saves you from being soiled by association
opher goodwin Added Jul 24, 2018 - 10:49am
Burger - I've got a copy! By hell he's got a tiny penis!
TexasLynn Added Jul 24, 2018 - 10:49am
TBH >> The smart thing here would be to extend asylum to Assange and offer him full immunity in exchange for his cooperation
 
He's about to be turned over to the British... not us... or do you know something more that we don't.
 
If the U.S. is pushing this... and I think we are; doesn't that mean Trump is pushing it?
 
TBH >> My guess would be some time after Labor Day, shortly after which Mrs. Clinton will suffer some medical event which will require her to enter a facility for long term care
 
Did you see that hospital gown she was wearing the other day?  She can't even afford someone to advise her on optics anymore?
 
If the Dems are smart, they'll trot out a new fresh socialist face for the next election.    The Dem leadership, right now, looks like a Golden Girls reunion.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 10:52am
They hand him over to the Brits, then he's in Madame Prime Minister's hands. Yeah. You can count on her to do the right thing. If you have leverage....
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 10:53am
That woman is the cure for priapism
TexasLynn Added Jul 24, 2018 - 11:23am
Opher >> Tex - the story that seems to be emerging over here is that Russia were involved in targeted interference with both the Trump election and Brexit.
 
I have to admit that I'm not sure what the news is like over there.  This might be the isolated American speaking, but I would imagine it's just CNN/MSNBC on steroids; meaning very leftist and biased.  Do you even have the equivalent to Fox News over there?
 
As for both losses (the Trump election and Brexit) being blamed on the Russians; I think it's just the left thrashing about trying to make sense of the fact that they were rejected by the electorate.  They are psychologically having to deal with something unfathomable to them (and doing a horrible job at it).  It's like a kid thrashing around on the ground and screaming because he didn't get his way.
 
All you’re telling me is that the left is just as unhinged no matter which side of the pond they’re on.
 
Opher >> Their aim was to destabilise the West, divide the population and hasty decline.
 
It's possible Opher, and I think you are right to a point that they do wish to sow discord as opposed to helping one side or the other win.
 
Opher >> I think they achieved all that.
 
Me too, beyond their wildest dreams.  But that success can be laid squarely at the feet of the now unhinged left.  Had the left been able to rationally deal with a bit of repudiation, the Russian plans would have been a complete failure.  Instead we have... this...
 
Opher >> A side story is that they have video of Trump with hookers while in Russia (not denied by Putin) which enables them to control him.
 
Do you remember the “side story” of Bill Clinton’s illegitimate black love child?  We were just one DNA test away from a massive scandal affirming he was a real dirt bag.
 
Interesting... I heard a side story that they (the Russians) have a video of Trump with space aliens getting it on in Red Square (also not denied by Putin) which enables them to control him.  (Not sure if it's the aliens or the Russians or both).
 
I’m not going to give much credence to my video “side story”.  I’d suggest you do the same.
 
Opher >> Funny that the only two people he's cosied up to are Kim and Vlad.
 
In an effort to stabilize a world gone mad?  Yeah, funny that he would do that.  Obama would have dropped pallets of cash on their doorstep.  What is Trump thinking not following Obama’s lead!?  Talking to these guys?  Is he mad!
 
TDS, Opher… TDS.
TexasLynn Added Jul 24, 2018 - 11:24am
Gerrilea >> The Russian Collusion Theory was intended to remove Trump from office.
 
It still is.  Any semi-rational person can see that.  Unfortunately, there are fewer and fewer of us every day.
 
Gerrilea >> To abrogate the will of the American people and our democracy through the career criminal sycophants that have infiltrated our government at all levels.
 
It is scary to learn just how bad our deep-state problem is.  I don't know how (or even if) we can fix this.
 
It is our lot in life during these interesting times to try and do the impossible.  As an American hero once said "Are you guys ready? Let's roll."
 
Gerrillea >> You've presented a great article and many of your comments have established the complete and utter fraud that it is.  Thanks for taking the time.
 
Thank you.  I appreciate your time in reading my posts and your comments.
Leroy Added Jul 24, 2018 - 11:46am
"Tex - the story that seems to be emerging over here is that Russia were involved in targeted interference with both the Trump election and Brexit."
 
Russia is the go-to boogeyman.  Russia is also blamed for the Italian elections that didn't go the right...er...Left way.   While we are at it, why don't we blame Russia for our deficit and pension problems and Climate Change?
Ryan Messano Added Jul 24, 2018 - 12:23pm
One of America's greatest living historians, Victor Davis Hanson, wrote a great piece today, called 'Russianism'.  He destroys the silly liberal narrative on Russian collusion.  The liberals on WB don't know anything about Hanson, and they stupidly believe the Russian collusion nonsense.  Whatever they say about Hanson they will get from running to Google and getting their usual heavy doses of disinformation.  It's what keeps them in their disinformation hallucination sensation.
Gerrilea Added Jul 24, 2018 - 12:50pm
TexasLynn-- You are much too patient than I to address every posting.  God Bless ya!
 
Leroy--- I was wondering when we were gonna blame Putin for Global Warming....now that you mention it...We should anonymously call CNN with a hot tip!  ROFL.
 
 
Gerrilea Added Jul 24, 2018 - 12:53pm
TexasLynn-- sorry about the double posting, I forgot to mention this, Assange is dead.  We have not seen proof of life in years.
 
 
Dave Dubya Added Jul 24, 2018 - 1:43pm
Tex,
I gotta say I’m impressed by your knowledge. Why don’t you share your sources to the unenlightened among us? Is it all from the unbiased FOX(R) and Breitbart? The moderate National Review?
 
You could save us a lot of trouble looking.
 
For example. You seem to be an authority on the FISA warrant AND an authority on Mr. Steele’s qualifications.
 
Share your secrets, please.
 
One in particular: We know that the FBI began investigating Trump associates’ ties to Russia for a reason having nothing to do with the dossier.
 
We also know the Nunes memo did confirm that the Justice Department partly relied on the Steele Dossier’s information to get a FISA warrant targeting Page in October 2016. But at that point Page had been gone from the Trump campaign for nearly a month. 
 
Since three of the four key documents about why and how the FBI thought Page could be a Russian agent are redacted, perhaps only you can reveal the truth.
 
We would really appreciate your expertise.
 
I won't bother you any further.
Rick W. Added Jul 24, 2018 - 1:55pm
TL>the act of "colluding" itself... is not illegal
 
This is my understanding, too. Conspiracy is a crime. Collusion is just suspicious behavior and lying about it.
 
TL>if Mueller had anything of this nature he would already have concluded his investigation... were well past the time and expense where he needs to %$#@ or get off the pot
 
The Whitewater investigation lasted four years. Mueller has been at his special counsel investigation for a little more than a year, and has handed out numerous indictments. I say, let him roll.
 
Besides, it's not a good strategy for a prosecutor to conclude anything before he has to. As he makes deals with the smaller fish, as more facts are unearthed, as more testimony is gathered, he can build a stronger case for the bigger fish. 
 
Just look how the smaller fish are behaving -- Trump's campaign manager tried to interfere with a federal witness, while out on bond. I have no doubt there's more to come from "only the best people." :)
 
TexasLynn Added Jul 24, 2018 - 2:00pm
Dave Dubya >> Share your secrets, please...  We would really appreciate your expertise.
 
Still casting these pearls... I should know better.
 
I read...
 
I read from disparate sources all over the spectrum... then I verify as much as possible... then I analyze what I know... then I do it all over again.
 
I'm obviously not the only one.  If you look at this post alone... there are many who are well informed on this subject.  Much more so than I am.  And, I am grateful they are willing to complement this thread with their expertise.  I've learned a lot AND have considered things I haven't before.
 
I'm especially grateful for the few who disagree and still comment... when they put some thought into it and manage to set aside the TDS for a moment.
 
Dave Dubya >> I won't bother you any further.
 
Suit yourself.  Thank you for your comments.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Jul 24, 2018 - 2:02pm
Yes, Rick W.  I say let him roll and let the chips fall as they may.  After all, we wanted the truth about Benghazi, right? Grill Trump like Clinton, spend the money, take the time.
 
Got my popcorn out.....
TexasLynn Added Jul 24, 2018 - 2:31pm
Rick W >> This is my understanding, too. (Collusion not illegal) Conspiracy is a crime. Collusion is just suspicious behavior and lying about it.
 
It doesn't even have to be suspicious or involve lying.  I would completely respect someone who said "Hey, these Russians have this information that I think you, the voters, need to know; so here it is.  I sure hope your find this as helpful as I did."
 
Rick W >> Mueller has been at his special counsel investigation for a little more than a year, and has handed out numerous indictments.
 
Fair enough.  But the "numerous indictments" (unless you count the Russians who will never be prosecuted), have little or nothing to do with Russian collusion.  It's mostly unrelated charges used as leverage to see if Mueller can intimidate them into rolling on their boss.  That may not be fair... but it is legal.  It's also fair to point that out as well as all the other shenanigans and shortcomings concerning the "investigation".
 
Rick W >> I say, let him roll.
 
Also, fair enough.  BUT... as I sated in the original post.  If I were Trump; I would bend them (Mueller and his team) over the table every chance I got.
 
So, I agree "let him (Mueller) roll" AND "let him (Trump) roll".
 
Since this is all about political warfare... "Cry Havoc and let slip the dogs of war"!
 
As JK said... let's pop some popcorn and see who comes out ahead.  Mueller and the deep state may win... but I promise you Trump will extract a pound or two of flesh in the process.
 
Rick W >> Besides, it's not a good strategy for a prosecutor to conclude anything before he has to. As he makes deals with the smaller fish, as more facts are unearthed, as more testimony is gathered, he can build a stronger case for the bigger fish.
 
Absolutely.  I never said Mueller was incompetent… just partisan.
 
Rick W >> Just look how the smaller fish are behaving -- Trump's campaign manager tried to interfere with a federal witness, while out on bond.
 
Yes, interfere concerning a charge of some kind of bank fraud many years ago; that other prosecutors declined to take up.  Again… nothing to do with “collusion”.
 
Rick W >> I have no doubt there's more to come from "only the best people." :)
 
Is that Trump's guys and Mueller's.  Never mind... :)
 
Thanks for the comment.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 2:47pm
Julian Assange interview at Ecuadoran embassy with John Pilger in October 2016. This interview was available almost immediately. You should consider what else I have said and listen to this interview. Interesting note: one can still find this video on the web, but google has placed a precautionary label "this site is financed in whole or in part by the Russian government". That was not present at the time of the interview or for some time after.
TexasLynn Added Jul 24, 2018 - 2:56pm
JK >> Yes, Rick W.  I say let him roll and let the chips fall as they may. 
 
I'm OK with that... as long as all chips are in play (I'm a avid poker player guys).  That includes all bets are off when attacking Mueller and any and everybody he has ever said good morning to.
 
JK >> After all, we wanted the truth about Benghazi, right?
 
And never go it.  But yeah, it would have been nice. 
 
Thanks to Comey and Strzok, we never got the truth behind Hillary's email servers either.  Go figure…
 
And thanks to Obama we never got the truth behind Lois Lerner and the IRS...
 
BUT on THIS one... sure, let's have the truth.
 
JK >> Grill Trump like Clinton, spend the money, take the time.
 
Nope.  Only if Trump is a fool and on this he seems to be listening to his lawyers.
 
As I stated in a completely different post (On Mueller and Sand)...
 
"Now, I haven't read a single one of the (leaked) 40 questions; but I don't have to in order to know exactly what Trump should tell Mueller.  Many colloquial as well as vulgar expressions come to mind... but I'll go with ‘Go pound sand’”. -- TexasLynn
 
As part of the war, Trump should make Mueller and his team jump through hoops to get that interview or much of ANYTHING.  I mean drag it through the courts for months/years just to get Trump to state his name for the record.  Challenge EVERYTHING in court.  Make their lives a monotonous legal living hell as you hurl buckets of $#@% at them on social media.
 
There has been a bit of debate concerning if Mueller can even compel Trump to show up.  Assuming he can (and I do think that legally he can), there is little debate as to whether Mueller can compel Trump to actually answer a single question.  He can’t.
 
If I were Trump any interview question would be met with an invocation of the 5th AND and a "<cough>you!"
 
Mueller has to ask himself if he really wants to go through months/years of legal grief just to get the fifth in the end?
 
JK >> Got my popcorn out.....
 
Enjoy... :)  Make sure somebody is around who knows the heimlich.
TexasLynn Added Jul 24, 2018 - 3:01pm
Ryan M >> One of America's greatest living historians, Victor Davis Hanson, wrote a great piece today, called 'target="_blank">Russianism'
 
Really great article Ryan... thanks for the link.  This lays out a lot of the leftist ineptitude in dealing with the Russians over the years.
 
I particularly remember Hillary and the "reset button".  Her moron team couldn't even get the Russian word for "reset" right.  The button was labeled "overcharge".
 
It didn't take Putin long to realize he was dealing with a bunch of idiots and a pussy President.  He took full advantage of it for eight years.
TexasLynn Added Jul 24, 2018 - 3:05pm
Leroy >> Russia is the go-to boogeyman.  Russia is also blamed for the Italian elections that didn't go the right...er...Left way. 
 
Exactly... and Opher probably really does believe they are responsible for the Brexit vote not going his way.  How such massive self-delusion is possible boggles the mind.
 
One thing I learned today is that this liberal snowflake hissy-fit is a world-wide phenomenon.  Rational analysis is totally out the window.
TexasLynn Added Jul 24, 2018 - 3:09pm
TBH >> The smart thing here would be to extend asylum to Assange and offer him full immunity in exchange for his cooperation
 
Any chance of that?
 
I'll admit, I'm no big fan of Assange.  I don't consider him a friend of the U.S. or a man of much character.
 
BUT if immunity is the price for truth in this matter.  I'm there.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 3:11pm
Tex - do your homework on those videos and on the John Pilger interview with Assange Oct 2016. Look, listen, remember what I said. It will come to you. Its a big, ripe turd sitting in plain view......
TexasLynn Added Jul 24, 2018 - 3:13pm
Homework!  Oh man!!!  :)
OK... I'll be back. :)
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 3:14pm
Ecuadoran embassy is getting ready to put Assange out. US has an extradition order on him already. The Swedes have first claim and have a 100% record of complying with US extradition requests. Once hes outside that embassy May will follow the protocols.....Trump better make sure that he gets picked up personally by Trump in Air Force One. I would not trust any of our law enforcement or intlelligence agencies to handle that. If they did rest assured the plane would crash....probably over the Atlantic, never to be found.
Leroy Added Jul 24, 2018 - 3:46pm
He'd probably be poisoned with the Russians getting the blame.
Ken Added Jul 24, 2018 - 4:44pm
I will say this was caused mostly by the left... but the GOP lacked the balls to correct it. 
 
Actually, GWB tried.  in 2004 and 2005 he called for an audit of Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac, and the Senate shot him down and wouldn't authorize it.  Some of the biggest recipients of donations that refused it were #1 Chris Dodd (d) chairman of senate banking committee), #2 Barack Obama, followed by other high ranking senators.  They blocked both audit attempts.
 
The housing bubble was actually created by Bill clinton and the 1996 Community reinvestment act.  This required banks to give loans to people who didn't qualify or be regulated into the ground for discrimination and other items.  Basically, if banks wanted to stay in business they had to give out worthless loans.  3-4 years before the Bubble became a crisis, the crash could have been averted if the audits had been allowed to proceed, but Dodd and others knew exactly what would be found and didn't want those skeletons exposed.
Dave Dubya Added Jul 24, 2018 - 5:33pm
Russia is the go-to boogeyman. /Exactly...this liberal snowflake hissy-fit ...Rational analysis is totally out the window.
 
Um, Guess who your cult leader is already blaming in advance for the Blue Wave.
 
Any guesses?   Think hard. Time for homework, kids.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 5:36pm
A walk through the blue wave, like a walk through the ocean of most souls, will scarcely get your feet wet
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 5:40pm
the best thing to do with most democrats when you see them shoveling is to hand them a back up and encourage them to keep digging. If you see a republican digging just tell them someone in the news said it would be good if they would only dig faster. And then they will
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 5:44pm
I am not a cheerleader for the republican party, but if ever there was a fitting mascot for anything the donkey is perfect for the democrats. The only more fitting candidate would be the lemming. The leadership of the national party is completely tone deaf along with all of their stooges with the networks
Dave Dubya Added Jul 24, 2018 - 5:55pm
The only more fitting candidate would be the lemming.
 
Yes, tone deafness is an issue with dems. But the Republican Party is far more authoritarian and lockstep. Look how they follow Trump. 
 
Lemmings.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 6:00pm
Actually Dave you are wrong about that. The old guard washington republican establishment is anything but in lockstep with Trump. You should get out more. Now I will grant you that there are those in their number who are only too happy to ride Trump's coat tails, that much is certainly true.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 6:02pm
and another correction. the letter is wubble-u. Didnt you watch Sesame Street?
TexasLynn Added Jul 24, 2018 - 6:06pm
Dave D >> Any guesses?   Think hard. Time for homework, kids.
 
Are you still here?  I thought you had existed the building.  How can we miss you if you won't go away... :)
 
Actually Dave... Even you CNN Kool-Aid types are welcome on my posts.  You may be condescending, illogical and irrational, but at least you're not a troll.  So, come and go as you please. :)
 
Dave D >> Um, Guess who your cult leader is already blaming in advance for the Blue Wave.
 
First, I've got to figure out who our "cult leader" is.  I must have missed a few meetings.
 
I, for one, actually do believe a "blue wave" is coming in November.  I base this on the following (in order of importance) ...
 
1) TDS has motivated the left.  They would crawl over broken glass to vote in November.
 
Mitigation: There is no mitigation... these guys will be at the polls.
 
2) The GOP in Congress (both Houses) has done little to inspire their voters to turn out
 
Mitigation: Putting Brett Kavanaugh on the SCOTUS just before the election may motivate the base.
 
Mitigation: Trump could pull out all the stops and motivate the base, but he would have to practically put his day job on hold to put in the hours needed to turn this around.
 
3) History of what happens in mid-term elections
 
Mitigation: If Trump has proven anything... it’s that historical rules don't apply to him.
 
Disclaimer: My batting average on these types of predictions isn't even 50/50.  I'm wrong more often than I'm right.
 
Oh yeah... to the question... who is somebody blaming or something?  Sorry... already lost interest...
 
Just tell us... don't... whatever.
Dave Dubya Added Jul 24, 2018 - 6:06pm
Actually Dave you are wrong about that.
 
Sorry, but the Republicans vote far more lockstep, and show an unusually higher approval of Trump compared to other Republican presidents. 
 
And I am right about this. 
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 6:08pm
It does not matter if i support Trump or not. He is the President and looking around I see that the man at the very least is doing no worse than the procession of fools that have preceded him. The real problem of washington is going to have to be fixed by more than one man. If Trump manages to nudge that ball one yard in the right direction it will be more to have been done for that cause in more than 25 years. And until democrats and republicans begin to figure that out they will continue losing elections. So, rock on freaky bro!
Ken Added Jul 24, 2018 - 6:26pm
Yes, tone deafness is an issue with dems. But the Republican Party is far more authoritarian and lockstep. Look how they follow Trump. 
 
That is one of the least informed comments I have seen here to date.  There are tons of republicans that don't "follow" Trump.  There are quite a few in congress who are filled with TDS - just look at Jeff Flake and John McCain.  Democrats with a majority push through legislation.  Republicans with a majority are lucky if they can because they always have people like McCain, Flake, Murkowski, collins, Corker, and on and on that are impossible to predict and have to make lots of concessions to to get on board.
 
The democrats vote in a bloc in lock step.  That has always been true because of philosophy.  individuals think like individuals.  The collective does what the collective wills.  That is blind obedience to the leadership.  Just look at historical voting for the past decade and that is undeniable.
Ken Added Jul 24, 2018 - 6:28pm
TL -
mitigation - there are very many more senate democrats up for re-election in November than Republicans.  Many of these democrats are in states that Trump won by double digits, including a couple in some that trump won by 30-40%.  Barring a major flip in the economy, Republicans are very likely to keep control of the house (although they may lose some seats), and actually GAIN 2-3 senate seats.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 6:30pm
What grade are you in Dave?
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 6:30pm
Hey Tex - come up with it yet?
James Travil Added Jul 24, 2018 - 6:50pm
"He is the President and looking around I see that the man at the very least is doing no worse than the procession of fools that have preceded him. "
Yes but he's tried to negotiate peace with not just one but two nuclear powers, and remember that is "treason" and "surrender" to the neoliberal death cultists. 
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 6:52pm
It IS? <look at that! see that? that's my shocked look>
Leroy Added Jul 24, 2018 - 6:55pm
The way I figure it, if John Brennon's communist buddies couldn't come come up with the dirt on Trump, then it doesn't exist.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 24, 2018 - 6:56pm
When I hire somebody to do a job I don't hire them for their personality. In my career I did not encounter this often, but one thing I refused to do was play referee. You got a beef with someone here? Don't tell me, tell your beef, dammit! I'm not here to be your fucking nanny. So people may say some dumb things sometimes. Some people are easily offended. If the job is getting done I don't care. People just need to act like grown ups and stop expecting someone to wipe their ass for them
Ward Tipton Added Jul 25, 2018 - 2:49am
George Soros was still busy investing foreign funds into American elections and trying to influence the actual process of governance and was unavailable for comment.
Dave Dubya Added Jul 25, 2018 - 9:16am
This needs to be said.
 
You gullible fools spewing your lies about liberals wanting war will soon enough be cheering your own goddamn war with Iran.
 
Any bets?
 
What grade are you in Dave?
Burgy,
 
Sorry, but the Republicans vote far more lockstep, and show an unusually higher approval of Trump compared to other Republican presidents. 
 
And I am right about this.  They may squabble about details, but they serve the far Right agenda in lockstep.  Tax cuts for the rich and gutting food stamps and health care for the poor. Very "Christian".
 
The Party of Trump has been loyal to their leader. Especially the House Goons, working to shield their master from justice and hide the truth from the public.
 
This may as well be the motto of the Cult of Right-wing Authoritarian Personalities:
 
“What you’re seeing and what you’re reading is not what’s happening.”
 
Fit's their Orwellian cult perfectly.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 25, 2018 - 11:07am
Yes Dave, you know all. Thanks for allowing us to share in the beacon that is you commanding intellect. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I can not speak for others, but for my part I am truly grateful for being blessed by your keen insights. I'm sure you must have slaved hours to put this together. 
 
Tex - be sure to thank Dave, huh? He went to a lot of trouble to read your article and compose a really pithy set of comments. I guy like this could attract a lot of readers to your thread. I know that after this I will certainly be keen to hear every additional pearl of wisdom that drops from his maw.
Dave Dubya Added Jul 25, 2018 - 11:26am
Yes Dave, you know all. Thanks to you and the Trump Cult, I can learn All The Answers.
 
(Trump) no worse than the procession of fools that have preceded him. 
 
Right you are. They would all side with Putin against two bi-partisan Senate committees, the Director of National Intelligence, the FBI and the CIA.
 
By playing into Vladimir Putin’s hands, the leader of the free world actively participated in a Russian disinformation campaign that legitimized Russian denial and weakened the credibility of the United States to both our friends and foes abroad. -  Will Hurd, Republican congressman from Texas
 
Burgy knows better. “What you’re seeing and what you’re reading is not what’s happening.”
TexasLynn Added Jul 25, 2018 - 12:09pm
TBH >> Hey Tex - come up with it yet?
 
IT?  No... More... at least, yes.
 
OK... you kept me up way too late last night.  My brain hurts...  I watched a lot of your reference material and it did help a bit... but I'm still missing connecting some of the details.
 
Here is what I know for sure...
 
There is little doubt that all this "Russian Collusion" and the Mueller investigation is an "insurance policy" tripped by the deep state.  This is because so many of them are corrupt and in bed with the Clinton machine.  Two things threw them for a loop 1) The hack of Clinton's illegal email servers 2) Clinton not winning the Presidency. BUT they did have the presence of mind to create this insurance policy at the last minute.
 
I agree with Assange that the DOJ/FBI has gravitated towards political enforcement.  This cabal of upper level guys prosecuting and hitting the propaganda circuit (CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, et al...) is evidence of that.
 
The FBI had many (if not all) of the missing emails Hillary destroyed.  This is evident from their meeting with Huma where they showed her a very damning email from Obama to Hillary.  They basically told Hillary they had them (via Huma) and assured her she had nothing to worry about (because Obama was complicit).
 
A hacker (or group of hackers) was involved because the emails and material came from difference people/organizations.  Multiple accounts are the source of the info... so it's not one inside guy.  I believe most of the breaches (like Podesta) came from phishing (emails that trick you into giving them your password).
 
Here is what I can't figure out...
 
Where did Assange get his material?  Who gave it to him?
 
Here is who it's not...
♦ The Clintons didn't give it to him.
♦ The DOJ/FBI didn't give it to him (as an organization).
♦ Barack Hussein Obama didn't give it to him. (He committed crimes too... easily proven if all the emails come out).
 
Here's who it could be...
♦ A DOJ/FBI whistle blower
♦ An internal Clinton operative (but no... too many different accounts hacked)
♦ An anti-Clinton wing of the Democratic Party (unlikely)
♦ Russia
♦ China
♦ Any number of other hackers foreign and domestic
 
That's all I've got for now...
TexasLynn Added Jul 25, 2018 - 12:11pm
Oh… and sorry, for the slight absence.  My work hours were afternoon /evening yesterday.
 
Leroy >> The way I figure it, if John Brennon's communist buddies couldn't come up with the dirt on Trump, then it doesn't exist.
 
Man... THAT is an interesting point.  Supposedly Brennon voted for a communist Presidential candidate back in the 70's but was never a member of the Communist party.  Surely... surely if there were any more to it, he would never have been accepted into the CIA.
 
Still, he voted for the Communist, because Jimmy Carter wasn't leftist enough for him.  That along should have disqualified him from any position at the CIA; much less Director.  And as director, he was a liberal, partisan disaster.  There is little doubt he's up to him eyeballs with this "collusion".  And if he’s corrupt in that regard… well… who knows.
 
On a side note, I'd hate for my voting record to come up in a job interview.  I voted for Kinky Friedman for Texas Governor; a protest vote against the GOP and Rick Perry being total dumbasses at the time.
Dave Dubya Added Jul 25, 2018 - 12:14pm
It's fine for Tex to make a protest vote. 
 
But not for those he hates. Got it. IOKIYAR.
TexasLynn Added Jul 25, 2018 - 12:33pm
Dave D >> It's fine for Tex to make a protest vote.  But not for those he hates. Got it.
 
Uggg... pearls... swine...
 
I voted for an ultra-leftist to protest the GOP not living up to conservative principles.  I'd would have committed ritual suicide out of shame had Kinky won.
 
Brennon voted ultra-leftist to protest the Democrats not living up to his leftist principles.  Brennon would have given his left testicle for Gus Hall (the communist) to have won.
 
See the difference?  No?  Of course, not...
 
So, is there any point going into Brennon’s leftist corruption and ineptitude after that?  No?  Of course, not...
 
Dave D >> IOKIYAR.
 
You seem to have mistaken me for a Republican.  I assure you, I am not.  I didn't vote for Trump.  That R means less than nothing to me.
 
To put it into perspective... there is my opinion of the two-party system...
 
"The Democrats are taking this country to hell at a dead run.  Every now and then we elect enough Republicans to slow us down to a trot." -- TexasLynn
 
A pox on both their houses.
TexasLynn Added Jul 25, 2018 - 12:42pm
>> Tex - be sure to thank Dave, huh?
 
Thanks Dave...
 
But actually TBH, remember that I am one of the main targets of The Michka.  In comparison, Dave here is a refreshing cool breeze of rationality and logic.  A veritable genius if not artist of prose.
 
Yes... all he can do is regurgitate CNN et al... Yes, eventually you just skim or skip over his comments.  But, while ignorantly condescending sometimes, his contribution is at least not overly abusive (which is my one criteria for censor).
 
I do enjoy him saying that the GOP is in lockstep with Trump in one breath and that here is a quote from a Republican denouncing Trump in the next breath.  And the contradiction never... NEVER... occurs to him.  It's like watching a dog try to get a long stick through a narrow gate over and over and over.  Comedy like that is priceless. :)
 
So, thank you and keep trying Dave… here boy… :)
TexasLynn Added Jul 25, 2018 - 12:47pm
Ward T >> George Soros was still busy investing foreign funds...
 
I read an interview (from a leftist source) with Soros not too long ago.  It was uplifting in that Soros was very dejected and pessimistic concerning how little of his agenda he had accomplished.  Meanwhile entire nations are banning him from "advocating" within their borders.  Fewer dirt bags have ever drawn breath.
 
There is not telling his involvement in all of this.  Where there is corruption and evil… there is Soros.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 25, 2018 - 12:48pm
You're on the right track Tex. Some details may not ever be answered fully, but enough of it can be put together to figure out what the real game is.
Dave Dubya Added Jul 25, 2018 - 12:51pm
Tex,
You are a conservative. Still a double standard. You are to the Right of the Republican Party as I am to Left of the Democratic Party.
 
They are both corrupted by Wall Street and corporate influence, and both feed into the military industrial complex. You see them as welfare state big spenders, corporate welfare included. Both views are correct.
 
The difference is one party gives lavish tax cuts to billionaires and cuts food stamps and healthcare for the poor to pay for it.
 
This is contrary to Christian morality as well as basic human decency and compassion.
 
Brennon would have given his left testicle for Gus Hall (the communist) to have won. Again you have All the Answers. Even his intentions and motives.
 
It was the protest vote of a college student. 
 
Brennan:
I said I was neither Democratic or Republican, but it was my way, as I was going to college, of signaling my unhappiness with the system, and the need for change.
 
Did he continue to vote for communists? No. He wasn't a communist. 
 
But to the radical Right, everyone not with them is a commie.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 25, 2018 - 1:02pm
First :  The Russian narrative was prepared ahead, but not for the purpose you state. It was introduced to the public as the official script to follow on June 14 2016 in the aforementioned MSNBC broadcast. Remember, regular programming was interrupted to air the breath taking news. Supposedly this had only just been learned, and yet MSNBC was somehow able to have Mr. Henry, the Crowdstrike cybersecurity firm representative, ready in their studio to cite the version of events that was to grow into the overall Russia narrative.
 
Worth noting is that much was made of two points in this initial airing of the tale. 1) Mr. Henry's previous background with the FBI (until joining Crowdstrike in 2012). 2) It was emphasized that in the supposed breach it was "almost certain" that the guilty parties had obtained the DNC oppo research on Trump. And....perhaps as an afterthought, it was also emphasized that no financial details had been compromised.
 
More questions result from this:  The FBI was already examining Russian activity in the counter-intelligence division. Why a Crowdstrike representative instead of a bureau or other Obama administration official to comment on the event?
 
If the breach had only just occurred, as presented, how did they have any way of knowing what had or had not been included in that breach? The report was adamant on the fact that oppo research was there, but no financials? If you're people were that sharp then how in the hell did you fall victim to such a colossal hack to begin with? And how could they be that certain, already, that the Russians were the culprits? 
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 25, 2018 - 1:05pm
The reasons for this are plain, and as I go on I will present further evidence  to support this conclusion:  The Russians did not hack the DNC on June 14 2016. There was NO hack of the DNC on June 14. None. The entire purpose of this report was to plant the seed for the narrative.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 25, 2018 - 1:21pm
There were leaks coming out in advance of and during the democrat convention from Wikileaks that exposed the complete sham and manipulation of the primary election process by both the Clinton campaign and the DNC (which I think we should stipulate were one and the same). 
 
During the convention several prominent DNC members, including Donna Brazile, were asked on the convention floor about the hack and they all dutifully responded with answers which seemed eerily similar content. Like a rehearsed script. Talking points. 
 
On the final evening of CBS news broadcast from the DNC convention Michael Issikoff was introduced as the chief investigative reporter for Yahoo News. Some months later a Michael Issikoff story was featured as part of the supporting evidence for obtaining the FISA warrant for Carter Page (this application was made on October 21, 2016) The broadcast in question was July 28 ( I believe, that may be off by a day)
There were several points of Issikoff's statements that are worthy of note. 
 
In the conversation, including Jeff Pegues of CBS news, it was revealed that the FBI had already initiated an investigation on hacking/hacking attempts by the Russians on the DNC back in May of 2016, before the big event supposedly occurred. The conversation furthered the narrative of Russian actors and Issikoff also introduced Paul Manafort into this with some speculations concerning his long known previous engagement before the campaign with Ukraine.
 
Most significantly (and I encourage all to view the video to get it in his own words) this is where Issikoff intoduces Julian Assange into the Russian narrative. He even went so fa as to suggest that beware of embarrassing releases from Wikileaks in October, on the eve of the election. 
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 25, 2018 - 1:28pm
Now, let me back up just a little for a moment.... 
There were hacks of the DNC. Absolutely. They went all the way back to 2015 and involved multiple actors, Russian, Chinese and others.  The DNC and the Clinton campaign (again, one and the same) knew this. They were not worried about this, just as they were completely untroubled by the knowledge that Hillary's personal Chappaqua server had been compromised by multiple foreign agents. They did not need to be troubled by this because their sympatico operatives and conspirators within the FBI and other Intelligence agencies of the Obama administration had their backs. This is not speculation, the expose of Comey, et al solidly confirms this.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 25, 2018 - 1:33pm
What they were worried about was Assange and Wikileaks. So they had to get a story out ahead of it to deflate and discredit any revelations. They knew what was going to be revealed. With the cooperation of operatives in the Obama administration and the media to carry the narrative forward was their best insurance. Tying it to the Russians and utilizing Comey, Brennan, Clapper and others would assure that anything that came out would be tainted. It also signalled to Assange: game on
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 25, 2018 - 1:35pm
The inclusion of Manafort in the July 26 2016 (?) discussion on CBS news was just campaign mode, meant to throw some splash onto the Trump campaign. At that time the Clintons and the media were still convinced of her unstoppable victory
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 25, 2018 - 1:40pm
this carried on through the heated final weeks of the campaign, but Comey encountered a little glitch he hadn't anticipated. The revelations coming from Huma Abedin's husband's misconduct. There was a steady and deliberate stream of leaks from the FBI that were intended, however there were some others coming out from bureau members that were not sanctioned by the bureau (Comey). 
 
On October 21 2016 the Fisa warrant application was submitted for Carter Page. One week later Comey makes to awkward and stilted announcement that the Clinton e-mail investigation had been re-opened, then hastily added days later "Wait! Sorry, nothing to see here".
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 25, 2018 - 1:41pm
and at this point they were still convinced that they had it in the bag
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 25, 2018 - 1:43pm
Once the election results went sideways the entire operation was easily converted to be targeted upon Trump.  This whole thing was designed to insure that no one ever got a look into that server
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 25, 2018 - 1:46pm
And why wouldn't Assange fear extradition to the US with a Justice Department run by the Clintons (see my earlier thoughts on trans-Atlantic plane crashes) 
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 25, 2018 - 1:48pm
The greatest fears of the contents of both Hillary's and the DNC's  servers are that they reveal the complicity of the the Obama administration up to and including Obama himself
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 25, 2018 - 1:49pm
I believe ( I don't know for certain, just believe) that Assange's source came from within the DNC and it did not come from a hack
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 25, 2018 - 2:10pm
Another very telling revelation in the John Pilger interview with Assange was this:  Hillary Clinton's role as Secretary of State in cementing record arms sale deals to the Saudis. The Saudis are the mortal enemies of the Islamic Republic of Iran, an Iran that Obama cozied to and an Iran that is Russia's chief client state in the region.
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 25, 2018 - 2:11pm
I think the most damning evidence yet to be revealed (and it may or may not) is what really happened with Libya in general and at Benghazi specifically
The Burghal Hidage Added Jul 25, 2018 - 2:14pm
I have already intimated my thoughts on this in my earlier satire Benghazi, Beelzebub and the Bitch.
 
Yes, it is written as a satire, but I do believe that the ambassador died because they wanted him dead. He knew too much. We may never learn all of the details, but on that point I am confident that this will be confirmed
TexasLynn Added Jul 25, 2018 - 3:06pm
TBH, First, thank you for indulging me and providing so much effort and detail.
 
TBH >> I believe ( I don't know for certain, just believe) that Assange's source came from within the DNC and it did not come from a hack
 
I believe there is much truth to your analysis... BUT :) ... you've got to get me past one glitch.
 
If Assange's source is from within the DNC; it's got to be a conspiracy of sources (plural) and John Podesta (for one) has to be a part of it.
 
Yes, it's clear from the sink Bernie conspiracy that the Clinton campaign and the DNC were one and the same... but not John Podesta.  He was/is a Hillary sycophant.  The DNC did not have his emails to just give within that organization.
 
So, I think some sort of hacking was required… and while that’s not impossible… it’s not easy.
 
TBH >> I have already intimated my thoughts on this in my earlier satire Benghazi, Beelzebub and the Bitch.
 
OK... that was long, but well worth it... a must read so here's an easy link for others; but please head the warning.
Beelzebub, Benghazi and the Bitch
 
You say/imply the ambassador of Libya knew to much.  How is that?
TexasLynn Added Jul 25, 2018 - 3:31pm
Dave >> The difference is one party gives lavish tax cuts to billionaires
 
I'm not a billionaire, yet I appreciate the tax cut I got.  I hope I get more... I could use it.  People who pay taxes should get tax cuts. 
 
To some of your "points":
♦ No man should be taxed more that 20%. 
♦ Government should be cut to live within a low tax structure.  It should be at lease half the size it is now.
♦ We as a society have a responsibility to provide a basic safety net.  That should never, in any way translate into cash (or it's equivalent) being distributed to anyone.
 
Dave >> This is contrary to Christian morality...
 
And this is coming from someone who knows the teachings of Christ; who has sought His will?  Or is this just another leftist projecting upon Christ what they want?  I suspect the later.
 
Christ did not teach to render unto Caesar half your (or your neighbor’s) income so that Caesar could wisely and benevolently redistribute it as he saw fit.  Christ knew Caesar was/is not benevolent and that Caesar would take a huge cut in the process.
 
Which is why caring for the poor and weak is an individual responsibility... not one of the state.  Because the state by its nature will never do a good or efficient job of it.
 
Please... stick to secular arguments and leave my Lord out of this; because YOU don't know Him.  If you want to seek Him; please do... but don't just transfer YOUR beliefs onto Him.  That's just worshiping yourself.
 
Dave >> Did he continue to vote for communists? No. He wasn't a communist. But to the radical Right, everyone not with them is a commie.
 
I... never said he was a "communist" just a leftist which is closer to socialist; and thus, more kindred to the commies than they are to what this nation was founded upon (Judeo-Christian conservative principles).  The likes of Brennon are kinda why all the socialist nutballs like Bernie and Cortez are taking over your Party right now.
TexasLynn Added Jul 25, 2018 - 3:40pm
TBH >> I do believe that the ambassador died because they wanted him dead. He knew too much.
 
It is amazing how over the years people just drop dead or suffer fatal accidents around the Clintons.
 
If I ever found myself on the wrong side of their ire, I'd hold a weekly press conference to explain how happy with life I was and that there was no way I would ever even consider suicide. I would make it very clear that if I died by my own hand... not to believe it. Then, I'd stay far, far, away from any and all jets/airplanes if not also cars and traffic.
 
If Assange was extradited to the U.S., you couldn't pay me enough to be on the same plane as him.
James Travil Added Jul 25, 2018 - 7:46pm
" I believe ( I don't know for certain, just believe) that Assange's source came from within the DNC and it did not come from a hack"
There is a group of retired intelligence veterans from the FBI, CIA and NSA  who call themselves VIPS (Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity) who say the same thing and have some very convincing technical arguments to support it. 
Dave Dubya Added Jul 25, 2018 - 9:09pm
Tex,
 don't just transfer YOUR beliefs onto Him.  That's just worshiping yourself. Judge me all you want, but you have no authority over the words of Jesus. They are there for all of us.
 
Although He said, “with God all things are possible”,  previous and other statements didn’t indicate good chances for the rich being redeemable.
 
“Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven...And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God...Ye cannot serve God and mammon.”
 
He told the rich man to sell his things and give the money to the poor. There is no reason to insist He would object to public aid for the poor. None. There is every reason to believe He would have no objection to taxing the rich to feed the poor.
 
In fact, He told us to pay our taxes. Jesus was far more a socialist than Trumpist Republican. Maybe you should set Him straight, since you know Him so much better than I do.
 
Christ did not teach to render unto Caesar half your (or your neighbor’s) income so that Caesar could wisely and benevolently redistribute it as he saw fit. How do you know this? You don’t know the reason, do you?
 
Christ knew Caesar was/is not benevolent and that Caesar would take a huge cut in the process. Which is why caring for the poor and weak is an individual responsibility... not one of the state.  Because the state by its nature will never do a good or efficient job of it. This is where YOU transfer YOUR beliefs onto Him. Jesus called out this kind of hypocrisy.
 
Jesus knew in 58 BC Clodius initiated a program to provide free grain to the poor in Rome.
 
Jesus also knew these facts:
 
The Romans were also skilled engineers and they created a system of public health. The Romans noticed that people who lived near swamps often died of malaria. They did not know that mosquitoes in the swamps carried disease but they drained the swamps anyway.

The Romans also knew that dirt encourages disease and they appreciated the importance of cleanliness. They built aqueducts to bring clean water into towns.

They also knew that sewage encourages disease. The Romans built public lavatories in their towns. Streams running underneath them carried away sewage.
 
This is why there were, and are, taxes.
 
Don’t lecture me on history. Cons typically and arrogantly assume they know more history than liberals. In fact they have All the Answers.
 
Spare me your BS. There was NO mention of “Judeo/Christian conservative principles” in the founding documents. And for good reason. The Royalists were the conservatives. The founders were the liberals. They were the most progressive men of their time.
 
This nation was founded on the premise all men are created equal. That democratic representation and consent of the governed would be the foundation of government. All of which are antithetical to the Party of Trump,
 
I love your projection of “socialist nutballs”. You are so dishonest or duped, you can’t face the fact that Trump is a serial pathological liar, defended by his handsomely rewarded servants of mammon. Then they cut food stamps and healthcare for the poor. What do you call the greedy Republican mammon-serving liars who set this agenda? “Job creators”.
 
As I said, this is contrary to Christian morality. Instead of telling me how this is in error, you play your “holier than thou” Bible thumper card.
 
Spare me your self-righteous hypocrisy.
 
For your sake, maybe you should just agree to disagree. I’m a pitbull for the truth.
TexasLynn Added Jul 25, 2018 - 10:22pm
James T >> There is a group of retired intelligence veterans from the FBI, CIA and NSA  who call themselves VIPS (Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity) who say the same thing…
 
Wow... I went and read some of these guys stuff.  You might think their partisan and were just created for this purpose, but they were formed back in 2003 to dispute the evidence used by George W Bush to justify the Iraq war.  They also disputed the chemical attack evidence in Syria, under Obama.  So they at least aren't partisan hacks.  Now they are disputing the evidence of Russian hackers of the DNC and say the technical forensics point to an inside job.
 
They base their claim on the "metadata" which is the behind the scenes data that gives you a road-map of various information like creation, modification, servers that touch it as it moves from point A to point B, etc.  I'm moderately familiar with it to the point that I have looked at it before in trying to see where an email came from or who last updated a file on a server.
 
It can be faked, but that’s a meticulous process and where you've got so many details to watch it's easy to miss one and give yourself away.  They claim that the Russian metadata fingerprints were inserted into the files; and the transfer rate metadata indicates direct access (as in - in the building) not over the internet.
 
Just like anything else... it's too complicated for your average person to follow; so, it's easy to just use techno-babble to obfuscate the data.  So, it gets down to finding someone you trust to look at it and go with that.
TexasLynn Added Jul 25, 2018 - 11:22pm
Dave >> you have no authority over the words of Jesus. They are there for all of us.
 
I do not (have any authority).  I read, I study, I profess Him as Lord, Saviour, and Son of God.  All authority is His.  Nothing but what he gives me by grace is mine; and I cling to that with all my might.
 
And you are right... the Word is there for all who seek Him.
 
Dave >> In fact, He told us to pay our taxes.
 
He did... we are in fact to submit to all government authority that does not run counter to the will and commandments of God.
 
You seem very keen on us obeying that part of Jesus' command.  Do you follow the very next command?  Do you even know what it is (without the help of Google)? I don't need Google to tell you it's "and render unto God that which is Gods."  Not as interested in that part though, are you?
 
Like most on the left, you can quote Him (with the help of Google) and take snippets to make arguments, but you don't know Him nor do you care to know Him.  He is just another tool to you.  I pray that you do someday have that desire to seek Him, but I can tell that today is not that day. 
 
Here… this might help if you really want to know something about the Word.  If not, just stick with Google.  It’s as close to Christ as most on the broad road will ever get.
 
A bit of advise (another pearl if you will)... You pretending that you know Christ or anything about what He taught is just ANOTHER blaring example of you showing your ignorance; but you're too arrogant to know it or and too proud to stop doing it.
 
Dave >> For your sake, maybe you should just agree to disagree.
 
We agree to disagree.
 
Dave >>  I’m a pitbull for the truth.
 
You’re a moron whose has had his proverbial ass handed to him repeatedly; and that's just on this thread.
 
A smarter snowflake might have abandoned ship to go write a separate post incorporating his thoughts and complaints of being picked on.  For your sake, maybe you should go back there… you're way out of your league here.
Dave Dubya Added Jul 26, 2018 - 1:16am
Tex,
You're best response was admitting you have no authority over the words of Jesus. That humility vanished in your response about taxes.
 
You needed to bend, twist and slither your way into thinking Jesus wants more tax cuts for the rich and less public healthcare and food for the poor. All because you disagree with a moron. 
 
Keep playing that self-righteous "holier than thou" card. Jesus said something about that attitude too. Your anger clouds your ability to think clearly. (A message to all Trump fans)
 
You failed to refute by reason or evidence any of my points. 
 
You simply BELIEVE I am wrong and that's that. 
 
But hey, at least you didn't call me a "moran". 
 
 
William Stockton Added Jul 26, 2018 - 1:26am
The only "evidence" that has been revealed is that some Russian firms bought some Facebook ads.  Is this the most ridiculous BS we have ever seen?  Is it not blatant?  This is why Putin laughed at the questions (accusations) of US election meddling.
 
OMG . . . if this shit gets any more insane, it will be just like the exuberant public of the 1920's who thought that fighting a world war would be adventurous and quick.  Fucking hell, the cult-left want war for their election loss.  That is it, man.
Leroy Added Jul 26, 2018 - 7:52am
"I’m a pitbull for the truth."
 
So is Andrew Weissmann.  He doggedly pursued the "truth" about the firm Arthur Andersen.  He put their executives in jail.  He single-handed destroyed this great accounting firm.  Turns out his truth wasn't the truth.  It was a fabricated truth, much like the Steele dossier.  It was so bad that "(t)he Supreme Court, in a 9-0 vote in 2005, overturned the Andersen conviction. A year later, the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals erased all the fraud convictions against four Merrill Lynch managers. The jury had acquitted another defendant."  Being unanimously overturned by the Supreme Court is extremely rare. 
 
Dubya, you have been overturned by Lynn.
 
The pitbull for the truth sounds a lot like the Speaker of Truth (SOT).  It has nothing to do with the truth.  It is the spinning of the truth.
 
TexasLynn Added Jul 26, 2018 - 10:55am
William S >> The only "evidence" that has been revealed is that some Russian firms bought some Facebook ads.
 
That is about all we know for sure.  I would call that the lamest form of "collusion" I've ever heard of.
 
I guess, to throw a bone to Dave we do know that somebody (was it Donald Jr) met some Russians in a hotel room but not what transpired there (despite Dave's assurance that he and CNN does know).
 
William S >> Is this the most ridiculous BS we have ever seen?  Is it not blatant?
 
Yes, it is for most of us... but not for the Kool-Aid CNN/MSNBC crowd.
 
William S >> OMG . . . if this shit gets any more insane...  Fucking hell, the cult-left want war for their election loss.  That is it, man.
 
It will, I assure you.  TDS is out of control.
 
And the selection of Russia as a scapegoat shows you just how crazy (and stupid) these guys are.  They could have picked any number of $#@%$-hole, inconsequential, non-nuclear nations... but no... they chose Russia.  Idiots!
Dave Dubya Added Jul 26, 2018 - 11:43am
Leroy,
Dubya, you have been overturned by Lynn. And he did without facts! Only the far Right has that super power.
William Stockton Added Jul 26, 2018 - 11:47am
And the selection of Russia as a scapegoat shows you just how crazy (and stupid) these guys are.
 
Putin highlighted this in his recent speech at the summit.  He said, somewhat jokingly, that the recent US/NATO sanctions against Russia for the many claimed "human rights violations", are only hurting NATO and the US.  Russia simply takes their business somewhere else.  Nobody is being injured by these sanctions other than the US/NATO countries supporting those sanctions. 
This is hilarious when really stupid people with juvenile world ideologies run countries.
 
Ultimately, where this leads, is the west isolates themselves from the rest of the world where, by population count, western countries are severely under-represented.
TexasLynn Added Jul 26, 2018 - 11:57am
Leroy >> So is Andrew Weissmann. (a pitbull of truth)...
 
Wow Leroy, this Andrew Weissmann sounds like a real prick.  Thank God his bullshit was identified and corrected.  A 9-0 SCOTUS vote you say? Hopefully the innocent lives he tried to destroy have recovered from the injustice.  Given all these facts I assume he was disbarred and is not selling newspapers on a street corner.
 
What is Andrew Weissman doing right now I wonder?
 
Leroy >> Dubya, you have been overturned by Lynn.
 
LMAO. :) Actually, DD was taken to task by several very informed and talented contributors who graced my thread.  I thank each one; including yourself.
 
Dave just eventually flailed his way to a subject (my faith in Christ) that I take very seriously.  I admittedly have little tolerance or patience when someone who 1) despises Christ and 2) knows NOTHING of His teachings, tries to hijack Him to their cause.
 
Opher tried it a few weeks ago and I bit his head off.  And you can imagine the arrogant posturing on that one.  I really should try to be more patient with these guys, but it's just one of my pet peeves in that it's very disrespectful to my Lord and faith.
 
I'm not saying that Christ is a conservative or is on my side of any issue.  He's all about inviting everyone to be on His side.
 
Leroy >> The pitbull for the truth sounds a lot like the Speaker of Truth (SOT).  It has nothing to do with the truth.  It is the spinning of the truth.
 
Spin is all Dave has.  He's dumbfounded that we know his every argument before he makes it.  It's because we've heard it all before ad nauseam.  The likes of CNN say it... and they parrot it.
 
Trump is a liar.  Trump supporters are ignorant deplorables.  The Russians stole Christmas... we mean the election.  Only the rich get tax cuts.  Putin has something on Trump.  Trump doesn't know what he is doing.  Republicans want to throw people in the streets, or granny off a cliff, or take away their medicine, or separate families...
 
One must ask, why retype all this stuff?  Just link to a live feed of CNN or MSNBC and ask us to click it.
 
Dave D >> I’m a pitbull...
 
 
It's ironic Dave used this analogy.  My little slice of East Texas rural paradise is a favorite dumping ground for pitbulls the original asshole owners don't want anymore.
 
I lost count the number of pitbulls I've dispatched to Jesus (or maybe the other guy) over the past decade.  Now I can say I've figuratively dispatched one.
 
TexasLynn: 21  Bitbulls: 0
 
Leroy Added Jul 26, 2018 - 12:10pm
"What is Andrew Weissman doing right now I wonder?"
 
I don't know, but let's hope he no longer works for the government.  I wouldn't trust him to empty the trash--literally.  He might find a receipt that I couldn't explain.  Poor Sen. Ted Stevens.
Dave Dubya Added Jul 26, 2018 - 12:54pm
Trump is a liar.   That was the only claim Tex could honestly ascribe me. The rest was the ravings of a deluded dupe.
 
This is the truth they must hide from. 
 
Trump is a liar.
 
They can't see it, because they refuse to see it. They have All the Answers.
 
Tex is keeping score with no points refuted, no facts given, and no idea he's faithful to a pathological liar.
 
Where I come from we have a word for that kind. Chumps. Trump's Chumps.
 
They lack the mental and emotional foundation to know their leader is a liar. They are a cult. They need a Big Daddy to protect their frail narrow minds and comfort their fear and bigotry.
 
Poor Tex had to ignore all the facts I kindly provided. He offerered none in return. Just his 'holier than thou" card. Jesus knows he hates me. Tex can't admit it, either. His ideology is framed in hate, like Trump's is in racist birtherism.
 
Trump is a liar. No matter how much hate and projection and lies they spew, that fact remains.
 
Trump is a liar. 
 
Did they miss that?
 
Trump is a liar. 
 
Did they miss that again?
 
Trump is a liar. 
 
Blind ideologues will never see that. Never.
 
Trump is a liar. 
 
His cult are dupes. Not all are deplorable, Just unwitting, unthinking dupes. The hate mongers are the deplorable ones. 
 
There is a reason the Klan, neo-nazis, and white supremacists all love Trump.
 
And good Christian Tex is with 'em. And make no mistake, the Klan, neo-nazis, and white supremacists all claim to be good Christians.
 
They are known by their fruit.
 
God bless 'em all.
 
Rick W. Added Jul 26, 2018 - 1:36pm
TL>Since this is all about political warfare... "Cry Havoc and let slip the dogs of war"!... As JK said... let's pop some popcorn and see who comes out ahead.  Mueller and the deep state may win... but I promise you Trump will extract a pound or two of flesh in the process.
 
I think we (you/JK and I) have some fundamental differences in perception as to these events -- which is understandable, as part of human nature. I don't think this is (internal, US) political warfare, or something I want to watch while eating popcorn, bemused.
 
I think the Russian Federation, which is essentially a mob run by Putin, has leverage on our president. Skipping the dozens of historical reasons (hidden bank loans, etc), let's just stick with recent events: Trump went to a meeting in Helsinki with *no agenda.* The weakest, dumbest position to be in for any kind of meeting. You don't even go to a school board meeting with no agenda. He's now scheduled another meeting with Putin, in DC, with *no agenda.* "Let's just be buddies, play golf, trade hookers." Whimper whimper, expose belly. It's ludicrous, and deserves investigating.
 
I don't believe in a "deep state" that's out to get Trump. I believe the Director of National Intelligence (a Republican from Indiana) when he says, "Putin directed an interference campaign to help elect Donald Trump." This matters. I'm mystified why so many conservatives think it's a nothing-burger. 
 
"Pound of flesh" indeed. Interesting to compare Trump to Shylock. :)
TexasLynn Added Jul 26, 2018 - 3:26pm
Dave, I'm way off topic here, but I'm going to try and explain to you (and others) my intolerance of those who would hijack Christ for their agendas and arguments.
 
I'm sure you are good at some things.  I suspect you are very knowledgeable about some of them.  And I hope you are very passionate about a few of them.  Hopefully one of those things is what you do for a living.  Maybe you’re a great electrician, truck driver, Buddhist, and/or engineer.
 
Now, let's say on a thread concerning your passion (technical, occupational, or religious) a complete novice decides he's going to pass himself off as someone who is knowledgeable on the subject by using Google to copy and snip a few phrases and concepts.
 
Question: Do you think he has any hope of fooling you?
 
Question: As he repeatedly retches his ignorance, exactly how much patience are you going to have?
 
Question: How motivated are you to counter each and every banality he deposits?
 
Unfortunately, many people believe they can use religion (any religion, but especially Christianity) like a whore to pick up and drop off after service is rendered.  They have no respect for the whore and have no idea why others would as well.  She provides a service when needed and nothing more.
 
With no concept of faith, they can't relate to anyone who has faith and takes that crap seriously.  They are thus confused and oblivious to the disrespect they inflict upon those who believe.  No... really... actually believe.
 
So, that is where we found ourselves and why I didn't just pretend you knew what you were talking about in this regards to the Christian beliefs or morality.
 
Additional Note:
James Travil is the local WB Satanist.  I guarantee you James and I disagree on quite a lot.  You would expect us to be at each other's throats... yet we manage to find common ground and have a civil discussion.  We even managed to do that on his original post concerning Satanism.
 
Guess what I'm never going to do.  Try to convince James that I have his religion all figured out based on a few minutes of Google searches.  I'm not going to tell James that Satanists support this, that, or the other because Google pointed me to some little snippet I like.  James would see right through it, call me a moron, and he would be right.
 
If I have a question about what Satanists believe and teach on a certain issue, I'm not going to Google it and tell James; I'm going to ask him.
TexasLynn Added Jul 26, 2018 - 3:27pm
Dave D >> You're best response was admitting you have no authority over the words of Jesus.
 
Happy to do it.  It's the truth.  It's His Words that have authority over me.
 
Dave D >> That humility vanished in your response about taxes.
 
I suppose if your definition of "humility" is pretending someone full of $%$# knows what he is talking about, then you are correct; I don’t pretend.
 
Dave >> You needed to bend, twist and slither your way into thinking Jesus wants more tax cuts for the rich and less public healthcare and food for the poor. All because you disagree with a moron.
 
Jesus never addressed the tax structure for the rich.  He hardly ever mentioned the Romans.  He rarely mentioned the government.  He mentioned taxes (as in your example) only as part of a larger message on serving God.  But none of that matters to you.  You simply want to mold Him to fit your agenda.
 
Yes, He taught extensively about helping the poor and infirm; but never through government but as an individual responsibility.  I believe in that responsibility; I just don't think government should be involved since it is 1) soulless and 2) incompetent.
 
Jesus is on neither side of this debate.  He concentrated his message on something much, much, more important... that being the way to salvation (Him) for eternity and the consequences of not seeking it.
 
Dave >> Keep playing that self-righteous "holier than thou" card.
 
I'm not holier than anyone.  Not you, not even that WB Satanist, James Travil.  I'm not perfect... just forgiven.
 
What I do claim to be is better versed in the actual teachings of Christ.  Why?  How?  I don't just Google it.  I don’t just pick up Christianity off the street, demand she service me needs, and then drop her off again.
 
I read the Word, I study the Word, I seek the Word, I live the Word... and I fail.  Then I get up, return to the Word and do it again.
 
Dave >> Jesus said something about that attitude too.
 
Really?  Why not Google it and educate me? I need to be taken down a notch, do I not?
 
Let me help you out... try these searches...
"tax collector pharisee" (Luke 18:9-14)
"says lord lord" (Matthew 7:21-23)
 
I do have my failings... not suffering fools gladly or silently being at the top of the list.  I'll try to do better, but pretending a fool is wise is by no means humility.
 
Dave >> Your anger clouds your ability to think clearly. (A message to all Trump fans)
 
Yeah... unhinged anger and clouded rational thought is a current problem of the right. <eyes-rolling-emoji>
 
It's like the pot calling the wind-drive-snow black.
 
Dave >> You failed to refute by reason or evidence any of my points.
 
Failed, no.  Ignored yes.
 
But let me rectify that right now.  Your “points” all have the same flaw.  You take one concept like “It’s not easy for the rich to achieve salvation” and conveniently extrapolate from that…  Jesus hates the rich… Jesus believe in high taxes… Jesus believed in big government… Jesus respected the Romans… (and so on)
 
All your conclusions are yours and are not found in or supported by the Word.  They are what you hope is there but have never bothered to actually look.  I have.
 
You want to know why I didn't refute your points.  Because what good would it do?
 
Matthew 7:6 (NIV) "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."
 
You probably don't understand that... if only there were some online type search thingy that could explain it!  Then you could pretend to have known it all along
 
Dave >> You simply BELIEVE I am wrong and that's that.
 
OK... Yes... and your different how?   You’re little more than a Michka without the profanity.
TexasLynn Added Jul 26, 2018 - 3:54pm
I think you're right in that we Me, TBH, Leroy (and others) see this differently that you, JK, Dave (and others).  And this is just one thread where each side can state its case (or regurgitate CNN).
 
To your points...
1) Internal US political warfare : Maybe it's just whose ox is being gored... but nothing could be clearer to me.
 
2) Russian Federation : I agree that it is essentially a mob run by Putin.  (Yeah... agreement)
 
3) Putin has leverage on Trump : I don't see it and don't see how it wouldn't have been uncovered by now.  And, Trump not sharing an "agenda" is what proves this to you?  Really?  Ignoring all the other hooker, whimper, belly TDS... you think no agenda and meetings "deserves investigating"?  Really?  That sounds ludicrous to me... maybe you shouldn't have suck "with recent events".)
 
4) The Deep State : Do you at least believe in the Deep State or is that a myth.  Personally, I have little doubt that the Deep State exists.  They are definitely after Trump.  It's personal and it's not.  They hate the man as much as any other frothing TDS zombie.  They also would have done the same thing with any other GOP victor.  Like TBH said, it started out as a response to cover the asses concerning Wikileaks... it morphed into an insurance policy against Trump.
 
5) Putin directed an interference campaign to help elect Donald Trump : The answer to that is I think Putin did this... and there was practically nothing to it.  Not votes changed.  If you assume the hacking wasn't him what did he do?  A few lame Facebook ads.  Add the hacking back in and he exposed Clinton/DNC corruption that should have been exposed by the likes of the Washington Post if it wasn't so busy getting it's belly rubbed by Clinton.  Putin tried, it was a nothing burger... until the Dems went ape-shit and made Russia a scapegoat.
 
6) Why so many conservatives think it's a nothing-burger : Because it's a nothing burger.  To quote an age-old sage "Where's the Beef!"
 
7) "Pound of flesh" indeed. Interesting to compare Trump to Shylock : Yeah... I hardly remember the reference.  Of course, I just mean that given the biased and partisan nature of the investigation I would council Trump (anybody with the power actually) to make life a living hell for his tormentors.  That's what I'd do. :)
 
Thanks for the comment.
 
Look what you get when you don't just channel CNN vitriol, Dave.  An actual discussion.
Rick W. Added Jul 26, 2018 - 4:18pm
TL>Trump not sharing an "agenda" is what proves this to you?
 
It's just one more clue in a giant bag of weirdness that points to a pattern of behavior that favors Russia over US interests. If you really don't see it two years in, I'm not skilled enough to convert you. How we got from the party of Ron "tear down this wall" Reagan to Don "Putin's fine" Trump is beyond me. 
 
>Do you at least believe in the Deep State or is that a myth
 
If you mean "is there a persistent culture in the federal government that resists change?," yes, of course, as with any institution. But in Trump-speak, "deep state" is a myth used to discredit our own intelligence agencies. 
 
>I think Putin did this... and there was practically nothing to it. Not votes changed. 
 
Just because a robbery attempt failed doesn't mean it's not a crime. This is a big deal. We need to improve bank security before the next one, not sit on our asses and say "Well hell, we're fine, get over it you big sissies." 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
TexasLynn Added Jul 26, 2018 - 5:13pm
RW >> Just because a robbery attempt failed doesn't mean it's not a crime. This is a big deal.
 
Great analogy... let me borrow and expand on it. :)
 
The robbers were so inept they never made it to the bank; some kind of car trouble involving a tootsie pop, a fifth of vodka, and a match.   They ended up on the freeway ten miles out of town and resorted to rude gestures and farting at the passing traffic (Facebook).  Meanwhile somebody robbed a banker (Clinton and the DNC) dumb enough to keep cash and dirty knickers in broom closet at home.  In an unrelated story, the banker's trampy daughter’s boyfriend has skipped town supposedly now in on a South American beach.  Said banker immediately started screaming the bank (election) had been robbed and to pay no attention to dirty knickers that might soon be released.  The culprits were identified by the banker's buddies as those wascally wobbers seen out on the freeway with those huge vulgar billboards the other day.  Now they're freakin' Bonny and Clyde up in here.  But, they're still on the loose, so we need to spend about half the banks money to make sure they don't do it again.
 
RW >> We need to improve bank security before the next one, not sit on our asses and say "Well hell, we're fine, get over it you big sissies."
 
OK... what security do we need to improve.  Nothing having to do with actual voting was hacked. They may have tried but failed, so it sounds like that security worked. 
 
The DNC?  Yep, they were hacked, but why do WE need to do anything about it.  That sounds like the DNC's problem; especially since they have no interest in the authorities looking at ANYTHING.
 
Hillary's People and Sycophants?  Yep, they were hacked, but same question.  Sounds like a personal problem to me.
 
That's about it.  So where exactly is the bank that was almost robbed we need to be securing?
Thomas Napers Added Jul 27, 2018 - 3:58am
The title is flawed.  There is no Russian collusion, however there is Russian state sponsored cyber-attacks and we should be under no illusion it stopped following Helsinki. 
William Stockton Added Jul 27, 2018 - 7:49am
and we should be under no illusion it stopped following Helsinki. 
 
Why don't you crawl back under that collusion-illusion, Napers.  It seems to suit you just fine when America is doing exactly the same -- or worse even against its own citizens.
Leroy Added Jul 27, 2018 - 9:07am
Seems the FBI can't keep a secret.  It leaked that Trump's former attorney, Michael Cohen, it ready to turn on Trump and will say that Trump knew about the meeting with the Russian lawyer to obtain dirt on Clinton.  Junior says he didn't tell Daddy.  Here's the smoking gun that there was collusion with Russia--so the story goes--and that Trump obstructed the investigation by not telling the truth.
 
It wouldn't surprise me if Trump did know.  If Junior lied, then it is on him.  If Trump lied, it is all the more reason not to agree to an interview with Mueller, else he could be indicted for lying to the FBI if the FBI can cop a variation out of Cohen.  It's another big nothing burger.  Collusion is not a crime.  The Russians came with no dirt, so they couldn't have colluded to commit a crime.  Obviously, using a foreign power to dig up dirt is not a crime, else Clinton would be under investigation.   She paid a foreign agent in excess of $25,000, an obvious felony if you are Trump.  The Trump team only intended to find dirt on Clinton using a foreign player;  Clinton actually used Russian government informants and officials to source dirt on Trump, if you believe the dossier, which the FBI obviously did as it stated in the application and three renewals.
 
Then, Stormy's attorney says he has three more bimbos lined up against Trump.  I'm sure that it was the FBI that gave the referral to him.  It's all stuff from a decade or more ago and has nothing to do with the Russian collusion narrative.  At worse, they were campaign violations.  Paying off bimbos to keep quiet is not a crime.  Bimbos violating the agreement is a civil crime.  Again, the Clinton campaign did worst things and the FBI wasn't concerned.  There are precedents that say such payments are not legitimate campaign expenses, so unless campaign funds were used, there is no problem.  So maybe Trump suggested a cash payment.  It suggests that he intended to do something underhanded, but it is not illegal to use cash the last I heard.  Maybe there was a civil fraud committed.  It is not criminal and will be difficult to prove intent.   However, if they can stack the jury with Clinton supports, he may be convicted.  So what?  He makes another payout and moves on.
Rick W. Added Jul 27, 2018 - 9:53am
TL>So where exactly is the bank that was almost robbed we need to be securing?
 
Lemme try this. If this is a nothing-burger to you, then I'll just drop it.
 
July 2016, candidate Trump asks Russia to hack Hillary's emails, in a press conference. The next day, they do. Not punk Russian kids. Their government, with Putin's approval. (If you think they'd do it on their own, your understanding of how Russia works is too different from my own to continue.)
 
Now, imagine Hillary had done the same, and asked China to hack the Trump campaign in July, and they'd instantly done it. Further imagine Hillary had won the election in November, after borrowing millions from Chinese banks to fund her private businesses in China and abroad, had said glowing things about Xi Jinping (even though he assassinates political rivals and sends journalists to prison camps), had called American national intelligence on Chinese activities "fake news," and blamed the "Deep State" for interfering with her plans. Would it still be nothing?
 
If so, ok. I know how opinions persist, and I have my own biases. To me, this is important. To 1/3 of America, it isn't.
 
Leroy Added Jul 27, 2018 - 10:12am
"July 2016, candidate Trump asks Russia to hack Hillary's emails, in a press conference. The next day, they do."
 
I take it, Rick, that you don't get satire.  Secondly, assuming that Trump wasn't pulling your leg, where are the hacked emails?  I haven't seen any.  All we know for sure is that someone obtained Podesta's emails, and those were not on Clinton's server and were prior to Trump's gest.  Thirdly, Clinton had already bleach-bitted the emails (or wiped them with a cloth as Clinton suggested).   In any case, your logic doesn't hold.  
 
"Now, imagine Hillary had done the same and asked China to hack the Trump campaign in July, and they'd instantly done it. Further imagine Hillary had won the election in November, after borrowing millions from Chinese banks to fund her private businesses in China..."
 
Remember that Clinton didn't borrow money from Russia; hundreds on millions of dollars were gifted to Clinton, and that does not include the bribes for the Uranium One deal.
 
 
TexasLynn Added Jul 27, 2018 - 11:59am
RW >> July 2016, candidate Trump asks Russia to hack Hillary's emails, in a press conference.
 
See, I read your first sentence and already know where it came from (because I've heard it a hundred times before) and where you’re going with it.  Unfortunately, the foundation of your argument… didn't happen.  Words mean things... being exact is important here.  Changing ONE word, pretending one word is there when it isn’t… is nothing less than obfuscation of the issue.
 
Here is what you base your accusation (of what Trump said and advocated) on:
 
"Russia, if you are listening, I hope you are able to hack the 33,000 emails that are missing — I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press," -- Presidential Candidate Donald Trump, 2016 press conference
 
BUT that's just what you (and the left, which is not you, because you're a moderate :) ) heard.  Granted that was the SPIN by Clinton and the Main Stream Media (MSM), like CNN.  Why... because this is all... (wait for it)... political warfare, the same political ongoing war we are describing here (Russian collusion, Mueller, FBI, Deep State, etc.)  But I digress…
 
What Trump really said (and later tweeted) was ...
 
"Russia, if you are listening, I hope you are able to find the 33,000 emails that are missing — I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press," -- Presidential Candidate Donald Trump
 
Did you notice the difference between what you (and the left) heard and what Trump said.  Trump said "find" you heard "hack".  The difference is HUUUGGE!  THAT isn't even close to what you and the media say he said.
 
For the record, I completely agree with what Trump actually said there... which is the following...
♦ A crime has been committed (by Hillary) deleting all those (33,000) emails.
♦ Another crime was committed, and someone hacked and stole them before they were deleted.  (Maybe it was Russia, maybe it was someone else.  We know the FBI had some of them... they showed one to Huma, from Obama, during a softball interview.)
♦ If you (Russia) know where they are or can find them, please do.
♦ Also, please release them so we can shed more light on the original crime (by Hillary).
♦ If you do this, I think the press will go nuts and reward you for your efforts.
♦ The American people (at least those interested in the truth coming out) might also be appreciative.
 
For the record, what was not said... Go break the law by hacking Hillary's email.
 
As for as what Russia did the next day or after that... I guarantee you they did not try to follow Trumps orders.  How do I know that with absolute certainty?  Because of Hillary's additional crime of destroying the server’s hard drives to be sure it didn't happen again by anybody (foreign or domestic, legally or illegally).  The 33,000 was a direct reference to Hillary's illegal email servers... that SHE had destroyed.  You don't hack what doesn't exist anymore.
 
Rick W >> Now, imagine Hillary had done the same...
 
At this point, one would have to ask... done the same as what Trump actually did, or done the same as to what Trump was accused of doing; since there is a world of difference between the two.
 
If Hillary had done the same, as in invite a foreign entity (Russia, China, or whoever) to find and release existing evidence destroyed by a criminal act... I think... the press would crow loud praises about the exemplary diplomacy of Hillary and if the foreign entity did produce the evidence requested, they would "probably be rewarded mightily by our press".
 
But that (as far as the MSM is concerned) only goes one way.  Hillary’s way.  The Left’s way.  NEVER the other way.
 
Rick W >> I know how opinions persist,
 
As does constant obfuscation by the press of what Trump says on a daily basis; this being a prime example.
 
Rick W >> ...and I have my own biases.
 
As do we all... the key is rationally acknowledging them and mitigating for them.
 
Rick W >> To me, this is important. To 1/3 of America, it isn't.
 
Me too.  And also, I agree with your 1/3 of America assessment... just not the same 1/3rd.
 
I like your analytical approach and reading between the lines, but you've got the get the foundation right before you begin that process.  CNN and MSNBC (and the rest of the MSM) are never going to give you that foundati
TexasLynn Added Jul 27, 2018 - 12:00pm
... foundation... (just 2 characters too long) :)
TexasLynn Added Jul 27, 2018 - 12:16pm
Leroy >> I take it, Rick, that you don't get satire. 
 
There was definitely a tongue in cheek satirical nature to Trumps comment.  It's actually funny to watch him do this to the MSM.  It's like watching a guy poking an enraged gorilla in a cage... It looks dangerous, but he gets away with is over and over and over... and the gorilla never figures it out.
 
Leroy >> Secondly, assuming that Trump wasn't pulling your leg, where are the hacked emails?  I haven't seen any.
 
Huma has... the FBI showed one to her as a subtle message to Hillary... "We have them (or at least some of them) and Obama has implicated himself, so you have nothing to worry about."
 
Leroy >> All we know for sure is that someone obtained Podesta's emails, and those were not on Clinton's server and were prior to Trump's gest.
 
Podesta's (and a few others) emails were hacked or either stolen by an insider.  That is open for debate (as it has been in this thread).  BUT that is totally separate from the server emails referenced by Trump.  The left has a general hard time differentiating the two... as well as differentiating "Hillary and the DNC" from "our election".
 
Leroy >> Thirdly, Clinton had already bleach-bitted the emails (or wiped them with a cloth as Clinton suggested).   In any case, your logic doesn't hold.
 
Leave it to Leroy to see the obvious and comment before I get to. :)  Right on the money.
 
Leroy >> Remember that Clinton didn't borrow money from Russia; hundreds on millions of dollars were gifted to Clinton, and that does not include the bribes for the Uranium One deal.
 
Woooof... Again, right on the money.  I've heard about the loans Trump took from the Russians and haven't delved into them as deep as I should.  BUT if it is a "loan" then supposedly it must be paid back.  Not so much with the millions upon millions in speaker fees and donations the Clintons got from Russia, and China, and God knows who else.
 
Nothing to see there... but ooooohhh that bastard Trump owes the Russians money.
Bill H. Added Jul 27, 2018 - 12:41pm
Looks like the next week or so may prove to be very informative.
I was wondering what the sudden emphasis to impeach Rosenstein was all about.
 
TexasLynn Added Jul 27, 2018 - 1:23pm
Bill H. >> Looks like the next week or so may prove to be very informative.
 
How so?  Rosenstein sure sin't going to change his ways...
 
Bill H. >> I was wondering what the sudden emphasis to impeach Rosenstein was all about.
 
Sudden?  The GOP guys seeking the information Rosenstein has been foot dragging on have been threatening impeachment for about nine months now.  About six months ago, Rosenstein actually dared the to do it.
 
Yeah, they've filed a few motions, but from my reading/research, Rosenstein has nothing to fear.  The GOP is all bluster and a bunch of pussies.  They'll never actually even bring it to a vote and Rosenstein knows it.  It’s hard to intimidate a guy when he knows your shooting blanks.
 
Rosenstein is waiting out the clock, knowing that when the Dems take (after November) all this will just go away.  It's actually very smart on his part... as long as conventional wisdom holds; and when was the last that didn't happen? :)
Bill H. Added Jul 27, 2018 - 2:04pm
Lynn - I believe Trump is shaking in his boots about now.
Between Cohen and Weisselberg's information, we may well find out what the hell is going on between Trump and Putin.
If one believes nothing of significance is behind this, or it's of no concern, then one is lost in the ozone.
It really started to become obvious when he began picking his cabinet, who most all seemed to have a connection to Russia in some way or another.
TexasLynn Added Jul 27, 2018 - 2:30pm
Bill H >> I believe Trump is shaking in his boots about now.
 
Yep, there's a whole lot of shaking going on.  I watch CNN, and Trump is shaking in his boots and the collusion is obvious.  I watch Fox and the Deep State is in panic mode.
 
And week after week... nothing.
 
But... check back in the "next week or so" and let me know how that panned out or if the ramifications of all that shaking are still soon... just right around the corner.
 
Me, I'm of a different opinion than you, BUT I don't think the likes of Rosenstein (and the Deep State) are doing much shaking.  I think they are pretty comfy right now... so I'm less frustrated and disappointed week after week.  But many of my colleagues have your opinion... any day now it will all fall apart.
 
Me... I want "IT" to all come crashing down whoever is right.  I don't expect it... but I hope.
 
Bill H >> Between Cohen and Weisselberg's information, we may well find out what the hell is going on between Trump and Putin.
 
Really?  Most of what I've heard coming from these guys has to do with bimbo payoffs.  Oh wait, I heard that Trump knew about the Don Jr. meeting with the Russians... which is back to being a nothing-burger even if true.
 
Please, enlighten me if I missed anything.
 
Bill H >> If one believes nothing of significance is behind this, or it's of no concern, then one is lost in the ozone.
 
That is the assertion on both sides.  One of us is right.  Check back in "as week or so" and let's see.
Leroy Added Jul 27, 2018 - 3:36pm
"Looks like the next week or so may prove to be very informative.
I was wondering what the sudden emphasis to impeach Rosenstein was all about."
 
I found that interesting too, Bill.  They had already been told by Ryan that it wasn't going to happen.  The first order of business would be to hold Rosenstein in contempt.  Nevertheless, it is a privileged motion which means that can force a vote on it.  They could have forced the vote before the recess.  Ryan couldn't have stopped it.  They purposely postponed it until after the recess.  Maybe they just wanted to give Rosenstein something to think about.  Rep. Jim Jordon is in the running for the Speaker of the House.   He may be able to rally the troops when he wins.  I think they are just sending Sessions and Rosenstein a message.  I'm not convinced either gives a damn.  I'm not sure that Sessions even knows he is the AG.
TexasLynn Added Jul 27, 2018 - 4:16pm
>> on impeaching Rosenstein
 
Leroy seems a bit more informed on this than I am.  So... thank you for the additional info and analysis. 
 
I've been listening to the GOP threaten Rosenstein with impeachment for about 9 moths now.  I’m sick of hearing it.  They should have done it six months ago.
 
If they are going to do it… they got to do it before November… after that it doesn’t matter.  All the questions, all the investigation will be shut down after November (when the Dems win the House).
 
Leroy >> I think they are just sending Sessions and Rosenstein a message.
 
Yes… because after nine months, you can’t really be sure they’ve heard you. :)
 
Leroy >> I'm not convinced either gives a damn.
 
I specifically remember Rosenstein a month or so ago telling Goudy to go %$#@ himself and dared him to do it (impeach him) … not verbatim but that was the intended message.
 
Leroy >> I'm not sure that Sessions even knows he is the AG.
 
Now THAT is the most truthful statement in this entire thread.  Of all the Trump mistakes… Sessions is the biggest.
Leroy Added Jul 27, 2018 - 6:46pm
I think the guy left this world in spirit a long time ago.  He now has an exoskeleton to animate him which can be remotely controlled to make it appear that he is still alive.  It appears to have only one functioning mode: illegal immigration denial.  The "Lock her up" mode malfunctioned a few days ago.
Dave Dubya Added Jul 27, 2018 - 10:28pm
Tex,
I'll leave you with these final remarks.
 
You probably don't understand that... I see prideful self-righteousness from one who thinks his words are sacred pearls.
 
Dave >> You simply BELIEVE I am wrong and that's that. OK... Yes... and your different how?  
 
I believe you are wrong because you believe liars. Trump is a liar. Republican liars lie for him. I support my points with facts or reason. I DON’T run away from yours by “ignoring” them. 
 
All because I said this:
The difference is one party gives lavish tax cuts to billionaires and cuts food stamps and healthcare for the poor to pay for it.
 
This is contrary to Christian morality as well as basic human decency and compassion
.
 
For some reason this statement blew a fuse. Instead of fair dialogue and good faith discussion, you got angry, and deflected, and played your “holier than thou” card multiple times.
 
Is it anger because I dare question the honesty and morality of the Party of Trump? Is it suppressed anger and associated guilt in failure to love your fellow man? Many Christians have this problem. I was raised Catholic, and hung with Baptists so I’ve seen a good bit of guilt. Grace is easier to accept than love is to give.
 
But what do I know? I’m just a moron trying to reason with a stable genius.
Ward Tipton Added Jul 27, 2018 - 10:50pm
Has anyone gone after George Soros yet for actively contributing funds from a foreign donor to political campaigns and not only seeking to influence elections, but the actual governance of this nation? 
 
No? 
 
Wake me up when they do please. Only then will I believe that any of this is anything more than partisan in nature. My guy's jackboot feels so good crushing my throat but your guy's jackboot crushing my throat is evil! 
 
Yeah, okay. 
Bill H. Added Jul 28, 2018 - 1:20am
Things are heating up. Even Sara Huckabee is silent.
Wassup with dat?
Stone-Eater Added Jul 28, 2018 - 4:11am
Dave
 
The difference is one party gives lavish tax cuts to billionaires and cuts food stamps and healthcare for the poor to pay for it.
 
This is contrary to Christian morality as well as basic human decency and compassion
.
 
Obviously ! The same can be said for Europe to a lesser extent and without putting religion into it.
Stone-Eater Added Jul 28, 2018 - 4:14am
BTW: Here in Europe we have multiparty systems, but after all there's in fact only ONE party that decides, as everywhere in the world: The Economic Party. Its ideology is Profitism :-)
 
People still don't realize that politicians are paid media figureheads.
Leroy Added Jul 28, 2018 - 7:27am
There was a recent study to check the accuracy of Amazon's facial recognition software.  Members of Congress were compared to a mugshot database.  Twenty-eight members of Congress were identified in mugshots.  Obviously, the software is not accurate.  There are far more criminals in Congress than that.
TexasLynn Added Jul 28, 2018 - 4:14pm
Dave D >> I'll leave you with these final remarks.
 
Final remarks?  Again?!  And Trumps is the liar?
 
Just how smart can you be to make a remark like that on an open thread…
 
Dave D >>  I see prideful self-righteousness from one who thinks his words are sacred pearls.
 
Granted… I took a few liberties with the verse, and for that I apologize.
 
The pearls are a reference to THE truth... to the Gospel.  The verse means don't discuss the gospel (which was what we were doing) with those who have no respect or interest in receiving it and will just stomp on it like a pig.  THAT would be you.  Stomping under foot would be what you have been doing with the gospel all along in this thread.
 
Dave D >> I believe you are wrong because you believe liars.
 
LMAO.  I didn't believe you when you said you would leave me with final remarks, a few remarks ago.  Did you believe you?  FYI... I don't believe you this time either. :)
 
Dave D >> For some reason this statement blew a fuse. Instead of fair dialogue and good faith discussion,
 
No... I simply said that you are wrong... coming from someone who has studied the gospel.
 
Your response isn’t to produce, but rather just extrapolate.  It’s hard for the rich to see heaven is extrapolated into you must pay high taxes and government must be the means of taking care of the poor.
 
But. Knock yourself out.  Give me a biblical quote (book, chapter, verse) that says pay a lot in taxes and let government do things for you.  Google to your heart’s content.  You don’t have to worry about breaking your above “final remarks” pledge… because it’s not in there… which has kinda been my point all along.
 
Dave D >> Is it anger because I dare question the honesty and morality of the Party of Trump?
 
Exactly why I would be mad because you question the GOP.  I'm not a Republican.  I would like to see both parties go away.  As usual you pull you facts and assumptions from your posterior.
Dave D >> I was raised Catholic, and hung with Baptists so I’ve seen a good bit of guilt.
 
OK?…. I don’t know how to reply to that.  If you have issues with certain denominations or individuals, I would suggest you take it up with them.
 
Dave D >> But what do I know? I’m just a moron...
 
Yep...
James Travil Added Jul 28, 2018 - 9:55pm
Mostly interesting, except for the Bible study stuff (yawn). Just one point of fact, only the most fanatical out of touch neoliberals and the most uninformed believe that the Podesta emails were hacked. It is debatable if the DNC was hacked but Podesta was a moron who used "password" and "runner123" as his passwords. They were guessed not hacked. That's called pishing not a hack. I keep up with independent media sites like Moon of Alabama and Consortiumnews which is why this is old news for me and those of us who like to be current. 
TexasLynn Added Jul 28, 2018 - 11:11pm
Mostly interesting, except for the Bible study stuff (yawn).
 
In the interest of equal time... feel free to quote Satan if he supports high taxes and big government or whatever. :)  I'm asking since I don't presume to know.
 
James T >> Podesta was a moron who used "password" and "runner123" as his passwords.
 
Thank you for getting this back on track...
 
I've heard that.  How sure are we that was the case?
 
Guessing a password, by the way, isn't phishing.  It's just taking advantage of stupid people.
 
Phishing is tricking someone into giving you their password... usually through an email and/or a fake login page.
James Travil Added Jul 29, 2018 - 12:00am
"Phishing is tricking someone into giving you their password... usually through an email and/or a fake login page."
Fair enough, but it was either that or they just guessed. As to the ridiculously easy to guess passwords that information comes from numerous people within the DNC who knew Podesta. I guess they could all be lying but Podesta would have to be pretty well hated by his own people if that is the case. 
Rick W. Added Jul 29, 2018 - 1:05pm
Leroy>I take it, Rick, that you don't get satire. Secondly, assuming that Trump wasn't pulling your leg, where are the hacked emails?
 
I would have a hard time picking out anything Trump said as satire, not because of some personal lack of ability to get a joke, but because this president reguarly says crazy crap, means what he says until he doesn't, and then he changes his mind again.
 
Again, I don't care about the effectiveness of the attempt. If bank robbers flee the bank without the cash, it's still attempted robbery.
 
>I like your analytical approach and reading between the lines, but you've got the get the foundation right before you begin that process
 
Thanks. That may indeed be the case.
 
However, I still maintain that it is perfectly reasonable, given the ridiculous behavior of this president, specifically his constant denigration of his own intelligence community to the favor of a communist dictator, and the conscious decision to undermine US policy vis-a-vis Russia to the point where the Sec of State has to be dragged before Congress to explain this craziness, that something is going on.
 
Do I know exactly what? No. But it is equally questionable, in terms of "foundation," that anyone give him a break on this. There is way too much smoke for there to be no fire. It may be a small fire, it may be a dozen fires started by his kids and not by him, but it's not nothing.
 
Has Trump done everything he can to clear his name in this? No. He's hidden his tax returns and lied about his staff's interactions with Russians (and practically everything else in his life). I have zero trust in this man, and I fully support the Republican, ex-Marine Captain, ex-Bush-era FBI director Robert Mueller, to do the right thing here. 
James Travil Added Jul 29, 2018 - 1:53pm
"..., specifically his constant denigration of his own intelligence community to the favor of a communist dictator, "
And that's where I stopped reading. Only an out of touch moron thinks Russia (or Putin) is still communist. Here's a "news" flash for you genius, the Soviet Union fell over a quarter CENTURY ago. Dumbass. 
TexasLynn Added Jul 29, 2018 - 7:32pm
James T >> Fair enough, but it was either that or they just guessed.
 
Didn't mean to get nitpicky on the technical stuff. 
 
As an IT Manager of a small company, I'm constantly dealing with this stuff.  We are bombarded with phishing emails constantly.  Hackers constantly probe our servers for vulnerability.  The level of threat out there is insane.
 
We currently use two factor authentications on all our logins (I recommend this as the most bang for your buck and something one should do at a minimum).  We also have an entire server dedicated to watching for suspicious traffic on our networks.  I'll stop there... BUT that just the beginning of what we do ... and we small fries.
 
As for my instructions to the users concerning email... if a link comes in an email, don't click on it.  But if it's someone you know, don't click on it.  But if it's something you were expecting from someone you know... don't click on it.  Don't click on it.
 
James T >> As to the ridiculously easy to guess passwords that information comes from numerous people within the DNC who knew Podesta.
 
Fair enough.  I've heard this, but haven't tracked down its accuracy.
 
James T >> I guess they could all be lying but Podesta would have to be pretty well hated by his own people if that is the case.
 
Nothing is beyond the pale with that cabal of miscreants.
TexasLynn Added Jul 29, 2018 - 7:37pm
Rick W >> I would have a hard time picking out anything Trump said as satire...
 
I think you've got a tinge of TDS; though not even close to as bad as the likes of Dave D and many others.  Trump tweaks the press and this was one of those times.  Again, I go back to the imagery of the Pres poking an enraged irrational gorilla…  So far the gorilla is on the losing end of these skirmishes.
 
Rick W >> Again, I don't care about the effectiveness of the attempt. If bank robbers flee the bank without the cash, it's still attempted robbery.
 
I would agree with that assessment... but if the robbers never even lay eyes on the bank; I'm less willing to file that charge.
 
Rick W >> Thanks. That may indeed be the case.
 
Now see, look at that.  Reasonable skepticism.  Which now requires me to take you and your concerns and your points into full consideration.  That now requires work and thought... unlike dealing with the Dave D, Jeff Michka, and a few other irrational nuts out there.
 
Rick W >> However, I still maintain that it is perfectly reasonable, given the ridiculous behavior of this president, specifically his constant denigration of his own intelligence community
 
OK... but is he denigrating his own intelligence community OR just the management guys at the top in charge of all the shenanigans.  I see it as more of the latter and rightly so.
 
Rick W >> and the conscious decision to undermine US policy vis-a-vis Russia
 
I just don't see that.  Just a recent example... he catches grief for telling NATO, they've got to do what they agreed to as for as spending levels on defense.  Who does that hurt?  Specifically?  Russia. 
 
He then calls out Germany for buying all that natural gas from Russia proving them with cash AND making Germany beholden to them?  Yet... the left has gone absolutely ape-shit over everything he did concerning NATO...
 
If he's all about promoting Russian interests over ours... he's failed miserably on that front; and that was a very big front.
 
But give me something.  Give me a list of things Trump has done that undermines U.S. policy in favor of Putin/Russia.  For bonus points give me one thing that could be considered even remotely equivalent to the Uranium One deal.
 
Rick W >> There is way too much smoke for there to be no fire. It may be a small fire, it may be a dozen fires started by his kids and not by him, but it's not nothing.
 
That may indeed be the case.  But I think a lot of this smoke is generated by a professional smoke machine.  If there is a fire, I suspect it's small and exaggerated.
 
Rick W >> Has Trump done everything he can to clear his name in this? No.
 
Not his responsibility to exonerate himself AND given the unhinged hysteria any attempt wouldn't matter. 
 
Rick W >> I have zero trust in this man, and I fully support the Republican, ex-Marine Captain, ex-Bush-era FBI director Robert Mueller, to do the right thing here.
 
I might have given Mueller the benefit of the doubt... but everything I've seen points to a witch hunt.  His staff (especially Andrew Weissman) and every other Hillary Clinton sycophant being just the beginning.
James Travil Added Jul 29, 2018 - 8:39pm
So let me get this straight  Rick wants MORE escalation against Russia? This is despite the fact that this administration has already target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">killed Russians in Syria, greatly target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">escalated nuclear tensionswith Russia, target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">allowed the sale of arms to Ukraine (a move Obama refused for fear of angering Moscow), forced target="_blank" rel="noopener">RTand target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Sputnik to register as foreign agents, target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">expanded NATO, assigned target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Russia hawkKurt Volker as special representative to Ukraine, target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">shut down a Russian consulate in San Francisco and thrown out Russian diplomats, along with the US regime change occupation of Syria. Despite all this, Rick and mainstream politicians on both sides of the aisle are target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">calling for more escalations. All without a shred of the kind of evidence against Russia that we should be demanding in a post-Iraq invasion world. Wow. And people ask why I think the left wants (nuclear) war with Russia. 
Rick W. Added Jul 30, 2018 - 12:27pm
James T>Rick wants MORE escalation against Russia?
 
Yes. I'm not impressed with how any 21st century president has handled that relationship. The things you list (expelling diplomats, etc) are bare minimums, in my opinion. But, it's just my opinion. I get one vote, like everyone else. And, I agree Obama was weak with them, as was W (re Georgia). We're the leaders, and we let things get this bad. Trump doesn't exist in a vacuum, and I try to keep that in perspective. He walked into a bad hand. I just think he's playing it even worse.
 
My main concern is how Trump talks and tweets... which no one on the right seems to care about. They like to say "pay attention to what he does, not what he says" -- which I think fits the gist of your points. My point: What a president says/tweets is equally important to what his staff does. A leader's words matter. Most of what a leader does is... talk.  Words signal intentions. They support or weaken our allies. They reinforce or shatter foreign policy. It's clear that his own staff has no clue what he's going to say, one day to the next. That matters. Or, at least it does to me.
 
TexasLynn>I think you've got a tinge of TDS; though not even close to as bad as the likes of Dave D and many others. 
 
I can admit to that. I personally think it's reasonable, given how rude and childish this president is, to assume the worst. I'm mystified why so few on the right care. I guess the conservative judges and farm subsidies make up for having a president who's a lying creep in conservative Christian clothing.