Israeli Intervention In US Elections Overwhelms Anything Russia Has Done

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The interview below with Noam Chomsky should be interesting reading for those

 

1) convinced Russia meddled in the US elections

2) Israel firsters.

 

Isreal Intervention in US Elections Overwhelms Anything Russia has done

 

 

 

I look forward to hearing your comments.

 

Mustafa

Comments

Stone-Eater Added Aug 3, 2018 - 6:16pm
Yep. Chomsky IS good. 
Ric Wells Added Aug 3, 2018 - 6:36pm
Mustafa-All countries meddle in the election of other nations when they have the power to do so. This is nothing new. Whether it be direct interference or threats on the political, economic, geopolitical, military, financial or even technological means all nations look to get the upper hand over other nations. What is needed is transparency within and between all nations. If there is nothing to hide then there can be little chance of advantage. It's a start.. 
Michael B. Added Aug 3, 2018 - 11:09pm
Mustafa, you're on the right track. This is what General George S. Brown, a one-time Chief of Staff of the U.S. Air Force and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in the early to mid-70's, had to say, compliments of Wikipedia:
 
During his term as Chairman, Brown commented on two occasions – firstly to a Duke University audience in October 1974, and then to a French reporter in 1976 – that Israel was becoming a burden to The Pentagon and that he believed the reason for continual military aid was due to Jews having control over America's banks, newspapers and elected officials. His exact words were:
 
"It's so strong you wouldn't believe now. We have the Israelis coming to us for equipment. We say we can't possibly get the Congress to support that. They say, 'Don't worry about the Congress. We will take care of the Congress.' Now this is somebody from another country, but they can do it. They own, you know, the banks in this country, the newspapers. Just look at where the Jewish money is."
 
Imagine a four-star officer, or any officer for that matter, saying something like that today, lol.
Ken Added Aug 4, 2018 - 12:25am
Got it, Chomsky, a communist states whatever and we should have trouble, yet Obama ILLEGALLY working to overthrow Bibi and paying millions during his term to try and stop it.  Yea...ok...
Stone-Eater Added Aug 4, 2018 - 4:36am
Michael
 
Military guys are often better informed and think more logical since they occupy themselves with geopolitics per necessity. Remember Wesley Clark. Maybe the army should stage a coup over the White House and their business attachments LOL
Stone-Eater Added Aug 4, 2018 - 6:30am
Shared article on Twat-ter and LI. We'll see...
Spartacus Added Aug 4, 2018 - 7:10am
I look forward to hearing your comments.
Mustafa 
 
Why do you always sign your comments and articles?  It's not like your name is electronically attached in BOLD BLUE.  We can see who you are without your signature.  LOL
 
By the way, about your article.  Should be titled:  "Inventing more Strawmen, Boogie-men -- Written by Mustafa"
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 4, 2018 - 8:26am
William,
re:"Why do you always sign your comments and articles?"
 
I was expecting to hear from you again, since it appears you got your  feelings hurt.
 
And with the same down to earth cold hard logic that is often used by people  without substance to communicate. Impressive.
 
Re
"By the way, about your article.  Should be titled:  "Inventing more Strawmen, Boogie-men -- Written by Mustafa""
 
Im not inventing anything. This is what happens when you read.
 
Mustafa
HpO Added Aug 4, 2018 - 8:56am
Although I don't like Noam Chomsky because of his 9/11 position, I'm glad he's a truther here when it comes to Israeli subversion of US elections.
 
Thank you, Mustafa Kemal, for signing off on this post. I now follow suit.
 
HpO
Jeffry Gilbert Added Aug 4, 2018 - 9:45am
The same folks who defend the Israhelli attack on the US LIBERTY will be apoplectic about your temerity Mustafa.
TexasLynn Added Aug 4, 2018 - 10:15am
Mustafa, did I miss something? (I didn't watch the video because I don't have a spare hour... but I did read the article.)
 
The title implies Israeli interference but almost exclusively concentrates on "The prime minister of Israel, Netanyahu, goes directly to Congress, without even informing the president, and speaks to Congress, with overwhelming applause, to try to undermine the president’s policies - what happened with Obama and Netanyahu in 2015..."
 
How is that interference?  How is that interference at all?
 
Netanyahu didn't sneak into the Congress to give his speech.  He was invited.
 
Netanyahu has no obligation to ask or even inform the President of his intent to speak or the contents of his speech.
 
Our leaders speak to foreign governing bodies all the time.  They often advocate for those governments to change policy.
 
Granted, Chomsky is saying there is little there with the Russian interference... BUT from what he presented here, there is even less with the Israeli "interference".
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 4, 2018 - 11:04am
TexasLynn,
re:"the title implies Israeli interference but almost exclusively concentrates on "The prime minister of Israel, Netanyahu, goes directly to Congress, .......""
 
Chomsky does no such thing. 
"
I mean, one of the most elementary principles of a functioning democracy is that elected representatives should be responsive to those who elected them. There’s nothing more elementary than that. But we know very well that that is simply not the case in the United States.
There’s ample literature in mainstream academic political science simply comparing voters’ attitudes with the policies pursued by their representatives, and it shows that for a large majority of the population, they’re basically disenfranchised. Their own representatives pay no attention to their voices. They listen to the voices of the famous 1 percent - the rich and the powerful, the corporate sector.'
 
 Chomsky is not trying to make the case that Israel interferes in our democracy. IMO,  that he knows would be very easy to do.
Instead he using a symmetry argument to point out the ridiculousness of comparing Russian influence with Israel influence. And I think the Netanyahu visit, with standing applause, demonstrates this well. 
 
He is also pointing at the real source of interference in our elections.
 
Mustafa
 
 
TexasLynn Added Aug 4, 2018 - 1:23pm
Whether or not representatives properly represent their constituents is a separate issue not mentioned in your post.  I would actually agree with that assessment... but it's a tangent.  When I read your link, I concentrated on what I thought were your points.  Russian meddling and Israel...
 
Mustafa >> Chomsky does no such thing.
 
"No such thing" as in imply Israeli interference or "no such thing" as in mention the Netanyahu speech to Congress?  Chomsky definitely mentions the speech, I quote him.  Chomsky's tone IMO implied Netanyahu interfering. 
 
Maybe we're in agreement after all.  Not being an expert on the gentleman I can't say if his intent was absurd comparison.  I will agree that Netanyahu's speech had more influence on government than the Russians ever did.  The first being minimal and the latter being virtually non-existent.
 
Mustafa >> He is also pointing at the real source of interference in our elections.
 
I'm assuming you're referring to the 1%.  Unless you're telling me, they fake the vote count or stuff ballot boxes, I'm not there.  Speech influencing elections is part of the system... even lies and propaganda.  The practice has been around as long as a ballot has been cast.  If we're stupid enough to listen to them... or the Russians... or the Israelis... we get the government, we deserve.
opher goodwin Added Aug 4, 2018 - 2:20pm
I've no doubt that Israel and Russia both wanted Trump and used whatever tactics they could to get him. They wanted the USA enfeebled. 
But the biggest influence is that of the Christian right-wing groups. The USA is a backdoor theocracy. The hypocrisy is salutary.
Dino Manalis Added Aug 4, 2018 - 2:59pm
 We intervene in each other's elections!  Bravo!
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 4, 2018 - 4:39pm
TexasLynn, 
 
No such thing as " but almost exclusively concentrates on "The prime minister of Israel, Netanyahu"
 
There is indeed a mixup here. The article link enjoys a famous one on the left saying that Russian interference is nothing compared to Israeli. Chomsky's target, it appears to me, is less Isreali interference than to point out the absurdity of the Russian interference in the context of both Isreali interference and our oligarchical interference.
 
re:" will agree that Netanyahu's speech had more influence on government than the Russians ever did."
 
I look at this other way. IMO, it was Israeli influence that got Netanyahu the invitation at that time.
 
No, In not talking about stuffing ballot boxes.  
 
Mustafa
Flying Junior Added Aug 5, 2018 - 1:23am
Well Mustafa,
 
Since your source is the Russia-friendly, extreme right-wing site, zero hedge...
 
I feel forced to call bullshit.
 
So what is really going on?  Jews are pushing elections to the democrats?
 
I'd say they fucked up royal the last time around.
 
Everybody hates Netanyahu.
 
Is it your contention that Israel influenced the vulnerable to vote for Trump?
 
Isn't that the exact same thing as Russian influence towards Trump?
 
Fuck the xenophobic right.  They must be defeated in every civilized nation.
James Travil Added Aug 5, 2018 - 1:53am
"Since your source is the Russia-friendly, extreme right-wing site, zero hedge..."
Seriously, you are THAT big of a racist Russophobic McCarthyite? And it's not even true, Zero Hedge is just not establishment (ie Clinton Democrat neoliberal/neocon pro-war with Russia) friendly. Are you that stupid and bloodthirsty for human extinction? Damn you are a pathetic excuse for a "human being" fj
Pardero Added Aug 5, 2018 - 9:30am
James Travil,
Zerohedge could look "extreme" to those who frequent compromised mainstream sources. Uncensored news that deviates from programmed group think would necessarily appear as "extreme."
Craig Murray, the great human rights advocate, is a regular contributor. He may be amused that FJ has lumped him in with "right wing extremists."
 
If Zerohedge has a broad bent, I would have to characterize it as libertarian, certainly not authoritarian.
HpO Added Aug 5, 2018 - 9:57am
FYI: Global Research has published at least 163 re- or cross-postings from ZeroHedge, from November 09, 2010 to July 30, 2018.
 
Meaning: you're dead wrong there, friend & 'bro James Travil, about my other fav (read = trusted) news breaker & analyst, ZeroHedge.
 
C'mon, cheerlead with me: Go, Global Research! Go, ZeroHedge! Do that routine I showed you in practice.
Logical Man Added Aug 5, 2018 - 11:45am
FJ, would you agree that the mass media attempts to influence US elections?
If so, take a look at who owns most of it.
Not a lot of Russkies jamming propaganda down the people's throats, you'll notice.
James Travil Added Aug 5, 2018 - 12:55pm
FJ is just a Russophobic McCarthyite with a deep racist hatred for anything preceved as even remotely, possibly, maybe, having anything to do with Russia. This is because his Lord the bloodthirsty warmonger psychopath Hillary Clinton has decreed it so, thus no conversation and no further explanation or evidence is required for him. Sad and pathetic. 
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 5, 2018 - 2:42pm
FJ, it was quoting an interview the Chomsky. 
have you heard of him?
Stone-Eater Added Aug 5, 2018 - 3:42pm
Many non-mass-media-distorted Europeans know him although he's American and his stuff is rarely being translated...
Flying Junior Added Aug 5, 2018 - 5:50pm
I went back and read the article.  Then I googoled the Chomsky quote to read it from another source.
 
Yes, it was shameful that Boehner invited Netanyahu to speak before congress.  The bromance  between Trump and Netanyahu was even more disgusting.  But I'm scratching my head to figure out exactly how that affects elections.
 
Obviously the Zero Hedge piece is just more pro-Putin propaganda as evidenced by the first paragraph.  "Even the left is quietly putting away claims of Russian collusion."  We're being quiet about it.  That much is true.
 
Israel is able to lobby the congress through the J Street PAC and other more direct ways.  I'm not sure that is illegal.  Maybe it should be.  Yet Israel is our ally.  The fact that the more fascist elements of the Likud party are now in power should not alter our alliance.  It goes deeper than that.
 
It could be that Chomsky is disillusioned by the hostile RW take-over of the Israeli government.  He is an interesting and colorful character, but I'm not sure he counts as a liberal hero.  Perhaps he deserves that title.  Maybe the Zero Hedge guy is just twisting Chomsky's words with little context to bolster his ridiculous defense of Putin's actions.
Flying Junior Added Aug 5, 2018 - 5:56pm
What are you saying, Logical Man?  That our media is controlled by the Jews?  Just come right out and say it.  Don't be shy.
 
James and Pardero,
 
I'll look for a piece by Craig Murray on the Hedge.  Maybe it will change my mind.  But Pard, you say I get my news from compromised sources...  You do get that the Hedge is mostly an opinion factory from what I have seen so far.
 
Right James.  I'm all for nuclear annihilation.  Every fucking blade of grass.  Nothing but cockroaches and ants feeding on the rotting flesh.  Isn't that what every democrat hopes for?
Flying Junior Added Aug 5, 2018 - 6:05pm
So what are the three top stories by Murray on the Hedge?
 
No need for NATO
 
A propaganda piece about the Russian novachok assassinations.
 
A fluff piece that purports to reveal the true leaker of the DNC emails to wikileaks.
 
Case fucking closed.  It's nothing more than a Russia TV - Pravda propaganda site.  It's simply published for the pleasure of those of an ilk who would seek to reinforce the Putin world vision.   And for all of you deceived Hillary haters.
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 5, 2018 - 6:43pm
MHO of course,
is that Zero Hedge loves suggesting other than Russian interference favoring Trump BUT neglects fact Netanyahu is under indictment for same dirty deeds via donors to campaigns. Be it purchase of Israeli major news or Fox news favor to promote propaganda, it all relates to Russia.
Oligarchs given Citizenship by Israel along with some very sordid details concerning Chabad sect as Putin chosen Rabbi while Pogroms chased off others begs question. 
Our present Congress is filled with reps financed by PACS having HIGHLY likely ties to Kompromat which shall be proven or dismissed by special council.
America is NOT alone concerning hard right parties. Even India is showing some very disturbing Government leanings.
"The U.N. agencies say they will be closely monitoring the situation. They are urging the Indian authorities to provide these millions of people living in limbo with all the opportunities and help they need to file their claims for citizenship.
rel="nofollow">https://www.voanews.com/a/un-urges-india-not-to-strip-millions-of-people-of-their-rights/4509015.html
 
Cheers,
~The Bug~
James Travil Added Aug 5, 2018 - 6:49pm
"Right James. I'm all for nuclear annihilation. Every fucking blade of grass. Nothing but cockroaches and ants feeding on the rotting flesh. Isn't that what every democrat hopes for?"
I have no idea what motivates racist Russophobic McCarthyites like you, and I kinda hope I never do. I'll just continue to oppose you and your ilk at every turn. You are a menace. 
Logical Man Added Aug 5, 2018 - 6:51pm
FJ,
What I am saying is that a very small group controls the MSM, non of them Russian.
I chose my words carefully.
Take a serious look at who controls 90% of the media.
If you do some honest research you will likely believe what you find.
If I tell you something you don't like you will likely ignore me or try to dodge the issue by asking such a silly question.
 
James Travil Added Aug 5, 2018 - 7:11pm
FJ is too blinded by his racist hatred of anything that might possibly be Russian to hear you Logical Man. Swear your allegence to a belief in Russiagate conspiracy theories and he might hear you.
Since the clown prince of stupidity mentioned the fake Russian poisoning here is something to inform you accurately about it
"Did Porton Down Commit Defamatory Fraud in Attributing the Skripals’ Poisoning to Novichok?” https://medium.com/@markfmccarty/did-porton-down-commit-defamatory-fraud-in-attributing-the-skripals-poisoning-to-novichok-92af4f219248 #FakeRussianPoisoning
Pardero Added Aug 5, 2018 - 7:15pm
Flying Junior,
Since the victims8 are alive, 'assassination' seems inappropriate.
Although the Russians have already been convicted in the court of rumor and innuendo, Murray points out a startling lack of evidence or motive. This is old news, and a couple of WB writers have covered it better than I could. 
You label something 'propaganda' that differs from your programming and conditioning.
You cover your eyes to the millions from AIPAC, and a bought and paid for Congress, while seeking Russian phantoms. Any medium sized Israeli company has more influence in Washington than the whole of Russia. Any of the multitude of neocon think tanks has more influence. You simply are not coming across as rational on this matter.
 
 
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 5, 2018 - 7:15pm
Len Blavatnik, owner of Access Industries and born in the Soviet Union, appears to tie many of the Republican Senate-Trump-Russia threads together. Blavatnik’s Access Industries has given millions to right wing PACs, including over $1.5 million to the (Republican) Senate Leadership Fund, at least a million to South Carolina Senator Graham’s presidential campaign, and a million to Trump’s inaugural committee.
rel="nofollow">https://www.fec.gov/data/receipts/individual-contributions/.
Blavatnik is linked to Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner through Chabad. Netanyahu is an old friend of Donald Trump and even Trump’s father, as well as a friend of the Kushners. Trump’s father was linked to Chabad through Bunny Lindenbaum.
Kremlin-linked Billionaire, Netanyahu Friend Donated to Trump’s Private Legal Fund : Len Blavatnik, who made his fortune in the former Soviet Union in the oil business, appears on a legal defense fund list uncovered by the Wall St. Journal” Haaretz and News Agencies Sep 25, 2017 1:28 Pm.
Access Industries just bought Calpine along with Trump donor and fund-raiser, nuclear waste king, Doug Kimmelman’s Energy Capital Partners (Energy Solutions), and the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board. Kimmelman is a Goldman Sachs “alumnus”.
rel="nofollow">https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/916457/000091645717000107/exhibit991-8182017.htm
 
FOLLOW the money through never ending LLCs and Offshore bank accounts, it will always infect Politics and RUIN Democracy if NOT removed from election campaigns!
~The Bug~ against Citizens United and Koch Suckers everywhere!
Logical Man Added Aug 5, 2018 - 7:28pm
Wendy, you made me jump back to my usual default, which is follow the money. Thank you, I was a bit distracted there.
I tend to look at things as dispassionately as I can.
The thread that runs through all of this is money and power.
Whenever I see 'China did this', 'Russia did that' or 'Iran did the other' I see the bullshit.
Here's the truth of it.......
The psychopaths in control of the arbitrary boundary called China did this, the psychopaths in control of the arbitrary boundary called Russia did that or the psychopaths in control of the arbitrary boundary called Iran did the other, with no regard for the average person.
The vast majority just want to make a decent, honest living and be left alone, I think, but are mislead by those who seek to exp;oit them.
If you follow the money, the Balfour Declaration is very informative, regarding the formation of Israel.
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 5, 2018 - 7:36pm
Palestine gets the BOOT no matter what imaginary God we play dice with.
Somebody gotta lose when somebody gotta win.
I am just sick and tired of all the collateral damage "We The People" have to clean UP after Governments trade decks of cards for fucking things that cant sustain life or Earth much longer!
Cheers,
~The Bug~
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 5, 2018 - 7:46pm
Wendy, welcome aboard. Nice to hear a fresh, informative voice.

Mustafa
Logical Man Added Aug 5, 2018 - 8:27pm
Welcome Wendy.
A spade's a spade.
MEFOBILLS Added Aug 5, 2018 - 8:59pm
Another good source is Mearschimer's  book:
 
http://mearsheimer.uchicago.edu/pdfs/A0040.pdf
 
Surprisingly university of Chicago, epicenter of ((neo-liberal)) economics reprints Mearschimer.  This means that UChicago is not completely subverted.
 
The Israeli lobby BY FAR is the greatest foreign influence on U.S. politics.  The Zionist lobby uses both fear and money.
Flying Junior Added Aug 5, 2018 - 9:06pm
Welcome Bug!
 
Thank you for broadening the discussion.
Flying Junior Added Aug 5, 2018 - 9:17pm
Travil,
 
You're so fucking nuts, it's a little bit funny --  Racist, Russophobic, McCarthyite?  Are you that stupid and bloodthirsty for human extinction? Damn you are a pathetic excuse for a "human being" fj.
 
I'm just an ordinary man.  Where do you come up with this shit?  lol
 
Let's make one thing perfectly clear. It's going to be quite a long time until I forgive Russia for the Trump debacle.  I also happen to believe that the Putin regime has carried out political assassinations in the low one hundreds over the last eighteen years.  I could provide examples.  It's tedious.  I could mention the more famous cases.  And I am not in the least bit interested in your RTV, Caitlyn Johnstone and Zero Hedge.  I don't really need to balance my news with the Russian point of view.
 
But just as the U.S.A. is currently a rogue nation yet the people of the United States are still the same wonderful people.  I can oppose the Putin regime without evincing any hatred for the Russian people.  One of my best bros is a Ukrainian-American and he never called me any of these names.  BTW he also voted for Clinton.
 
I do enjoy talking to the far right on the WB.  It's always a kick.  Good to see you MEFOBILLS.
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 5, 2018 - 10:05pm
A select list of Alfa’s connections to the regime, and personally to Putin, can be found at this link with references to verifiable English and Russian sources. In our view, all of the listed points about such connections suggest strongly that Aven, Fridman, and other key Alfa Bank oligarchs are indeed close cronies and insiders of Putin’s regime, and do not operate independently of Putin’s demands.

In fact, some of the key criteria for inclusion of oligarchs under CAATSA are their proximity to Putin’s inner circle and involvement in the operations of the regime—two conditions that, in our view, Aven and Fridman wholly fulfill. We urge the participants of the event on May 21 to use open-source material and query the oligarchs about various aspects of their cooperation with Putin, his circle, and the Russian security services since 1992. 
https://www.underminers.info/publications/2018/5/21/oligarchs-from-alfa-group-should-be-asked-critical-questions-at-the-atlantic-council-dinner 
NO JOKE, PLAIN AND SIMPLE INTERESTS IN AMERIKA
FOUND A PUPPET LIKE DON THE CON FOR SANCTION REMOVAL
AND CERTAINLY "NOT" ALONE WITH COMPLICIT GOP CONGRESS!
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 5, 2018 - 10:15pm
Activities which courts have held defraud the United States under 18 U.S.C. § 371 affect the government in at least one of three ways:
[cited in USAM 9-42.001]
1. They cheat the government out of money or property;
2. They interfere or obstruct legitimate Government activity; or
3. They make wrongful use of a governmental instrumentality.

rel="nofollow">https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-923-18-usc-371-conspiracy-defraud-us

rel="nofollow">https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-924-defrauding-government-money-or-property

rel="nofollow">https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/granule/USCODE-2011-title18/USCODE-2011-title18-partI-chap19-sec371
 
To conspire to defraud the United States means primarily to cheat the Government out of property or money, but it also means to interfere with or obstruct one of its lawful governmental functions by deceit, craft or trickery, or at least by means that are dishonest. It is not necessary that the Government shall be subjected to property or pecuniary loss by the fraud, but only that its legitimate official action and purpose shall be defeated by misrepresentation, chicane or the overreaching of those charged with carrying out the governmental intention.
 
James Travil Added Aug 5, 2018 - 10:25pm
" I could provide examples. It's tedious. I could mention the more famous cases. And I am not in the least bit interested in your RTV,"
You provide only the usual empty nonsense and biased bigoted bullshit. I'm not interested in any of it. Nor am I interested in any of your establishment corporate mainstream media fake news.  And yes you are a Russophobic McCarthyite racist, just like an Islamophobic racist who may (or may not) have a token (sell out) Islamic friend, you are still a bigot. 
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 5, 2018 - 10:49pm
Anyway,
Best Noam Chomsky I have had the privilege to watch is a Netflix documentary titled "Requiem for the American Dream" which is very eye opening to Business versus freedom we think America GIVES us
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWD8Wksx_zI
 
"REQUIEM FOR THE AMERICAN DREAM is the definitive discourse with Noam Chomsky, widely regarded as the most important intellectual alive, on the defining characteristic of our time - the deliberate concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a select few. Through interviews "
Cheers all,
~The Bug~ stopped by
so Tell Jurg I caught link he posted on Twitter!
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 5, 2018 - 11:53pm
FJ, in case you are interested. IMO all sources are suspect and I read them all that way. I look at a variety of sources, including RT, Saker,  Debka, and ZH,  I am especially fond of DPRK, but I  avoid CNN and Fox simply  because the nonsense is just too much for me.  


 
re:"Everybody hates Netanyahu."
evidently, you did not watch the video. or are unaware of how many billions the US sends to Israel every year. If that is hate, then I know quite a few countries that would like to be on the receiving end.
 
 
Speaking of the actual article,
You never really addressed what Chomsky had to say. 
 
Notice how your initial use of the adhominem fallacy derailed the discussion away from the content of Chomsky's interview. 
Bug's link of Chomsky is quite informative. It may cause you cognitive dissonance, so I dont recommend that you watch it.
 
As for  your snide
" Good to see you MEFOBILLS."
 
I genuinely concur. 
 
MEFOBILLS always has information to offer. 
 
Looks like another book in my queue. Man my reading list is getting long.
 
Mustafa
 
 
Flying Junior Added Aug 6, 2018 - 2:14am
It was a left-handed compliment and I felt like shit.
 
In truth I do enjoy hearing from MEFO.  I put the guy through the wringer and I waited a little bit too long before I let up.
 
All you guys are the extreme right to me!  I'm a Roosevelt democrat.  God-fearing American just like my fathers before me.
 
I think I like the Bug.  Hope you jump in the fray from time to time.
 
Yes, Netanyahu is a force for himself and little else.  But nothing will ever dampen my love for the people of Israel.  I've said it before, I'm a Yitzhak Rabin supporter.  A soldier and a man of God.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 6, 2018 - 3:57am
Hey hi Buggie :)
 
Noted :) How's life ?? Hope all ok !
MEFOBILLS Added Aug 6, 2018 - 3:09pm
FJ,
 
You do know that today's democratic party is not in any way similar to FDR's democrats?
 
 
Pardero Added Aug 6, 2018 - 3:16pm
MEFOBILLS,
Along similar lines, I offer 'Rogue journalist' Caitlin Johnstone's latest:
https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2018/08/06/there-is-no-such-thing-as-a-moderate-mainstream-centrist/
 
Her entire catalog offers valuable insights.
Pardero Added Aug 6, 2018 - 3:31pm
Flying Junior,
Because you are so bright and articulate, I have great confidence in you. Playing devil's advocate or taking poetic license makes for entertaining reading and debate.
I am well aware of those you admire, whether or not you agree with them.
You were a fixture when I arrived, and will remain so, even if you take it a little too far, on occasion.
James Travil Added Aug 6, 2018 - 7:16pm
Good article Pardero. Caitlin Johnstone is a quality progressive journalist that I also follow. 
MEFOBILLS Added Aug 6, 2018 - 7:45pm
Caitlin says this:
 
there are of course people who espouse a central position on the left-right spectrum between proper communism and unregulated capitalism, as well as a central position between anarchism and totalitarianism, but those who maintain such a position without accepting the perverse omnicidal doctrines of the CNN/CIA mainstream are as rare as hen’s teeth. They are not mainstream by any stretch of the imagination.
 
 
And those of us that have this central position are called Nazi's or Bigot's, etc.  Any sort of ad-homiem and finger pointing is used, to then shut down reasoned arguments - it shows how far we have fallen.  Those of the center are the outliers.
Logical Man Added Aug 6, 2018 - 7:46pm
Today's Democrats are not in any way democratic.
Might be more accurate, Mefo
Pardero Added Aug 6, 2018 - 7:59pm
You gotta admit Caitlin's
"perverse omnicidal doctrines of the CNN/CIA mainstream" 
is a brilliant turn of phrase.
 
Great to see much of the anti-war gang here! A well problem has provided me with some rare free time. I may still set a personal high for 2 week paycheck.
Pardero Added Aug 6, 2018 - 8:10pm
James Travil,
I have read her articles before, but have now bookmarked her website and subscribed. If we stay busy at work, I may send her a few bucks through Patreon. We know that the MSM has no use for her, though Tucker Carlson has been impressive, and is head and shoulders above his 'peers.'
James Travil Added Aug 7, 2018 - 12:20am
Great! Now, becides people like A. Jones of Infowars they are censoring people from antiwar.com
“In A Corporatist System Of Government, Corporate Censorship Is State Censorship” https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/in-a-corporatist-system-of-government-corporate-censorship-is-state-censorship-eb8a8b486577
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2018 - 12:44pm
Sounds like an interesting person, that Johnstone. Stone....lol
Pardero Added Aug 7, 2018 - 1:27pm
James Travil,
That is worrisome. 
I have trouble believing that pacifists are a threat to civil order.
Apparently, our type of government and civil society is endangered, if some people aren't silenced. Silly me, I had believed that the free exchange of ideas was healthy for a society.
 
It will be far easier to manufacture consent, if dissenters are silenced.
 
We can hope that this blatant censorship backfires, but I am not optimistic. 
 
So few of us actually question the official narratives, you wouldn't think that a heavy handed approach would be necessary. The corporations got their marching orders from our bought and paid for congress, and the corporations will go along, since any fuss could endanger their revenue streams.
 
I imagine Tucker Carlson is feeling some pressure from the war machine, but we will never hear about it.
 
I have an aversion to social media, but it is almost to the point of being 'utilities.'
 
Why can't all the people that are 'defending the Constitution' take a look at this censorship? 
Most of them are happily marching along towards Orwell's 1984. 
The American Revolution would have never happened if King George had been able to squelch dissent in a similar fashion.
 
If a private company has a near monopoly on a form of communication, it must be broken up like Ma Bell. A diffused medium would be harder for the government to control.
 
Free speech *(as long as it doesn't upset anyone)
Pardero Added Aug 7, 2018 - 1:40pm
Stone-Eater,
Never mind provocateur Alex Jones, now pacifist writers are also being silenced. 
 
We can hope that journalists will raise a great hue and cry, just as they have done for Julian Assange. Oh, wait, never mind.
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 7, 2018 - 1:53pm
Parden Pardero?
I call BS!
Reality of events that caused this MESS to begin with, begin with FAKE NEWS spread through Social Media platforms with TARGETED propaganda message.
Call IT Liberal agenda BUT know the RED MEAT worked for Right leaners BUT libs were not fooled.
I once also defended Assange
BUT never Snowden because he took an oath to work for NSA & ran for his life? HUH? Run to Putin?
Snowden traitor and Assange same to me anyway, cheers!
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 7, 2018 - 2:05pm
Pacifist?
A pacifist does NO harm either so where do WE find a REAL one?
Please do TELL!
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 7, 2018 - 2:08pm
Mustafa,
What did Israel make concessions on that would appease Alt-R who stated clearly wanting to rid America of all JEWS?
Can Neddy want the same? 
Pardero Added Aug 7, 2018 - 2:17pm
Wendy Bugliari,
It is hard to believe that someone so well read actually believes that "targeted" or any propaganda had any real impact, but Flying Junior, a gifted writer of prose, has also bought into that nonsense.
 
The arm of American law is long. One would have to choose a country where the CIA wasn't crawling around. 
Let me know if you can think of others besides China, Russia, NK, Cuba, or Iran. Small Latin American countries are a proven bad plan. China declined. I think most of us would have picked Russia, no matter who was president. Snowden didn't pick Russia as much as the authorities chased him there. Second choice is problematic. The Israelis regularly assassinate Iranian scientists with ease. China or Russia were the only viable choices.
 
Loyalty to the Constitution trumps, no pun intended, any oath to a shadowy government surveillance agency operating outside the Constitution.
Pardero Added Aug 7, 2018 - 2:29pm
Wendy Bugliari,
There is no such thing as a perfect pacifist, or anything else, for that matter. I am quite far from straining my water, so that I don't accidentally do violence to a tiny insect. 
About the time someone comes at me, I reach for my tire thumper.
If Mustafa Kemal weighs in, he can tell you exactly which fallacy that is.
James Travil Added Aug 7, 2018 - 10:01pm
Well said Padero, it seems those of us on all sides of the aisle who don't buy into the establishment narrative are being targeted. I will always stand for truth, free speech, and the free exchange of information. It is up to you and me to determine what to believe not the Plutarch. 
Logical Man Added Aug 7, 2018 - 10:26pm
“When truth is replaced by silence,the silence is a lie.”

― Yevgeny Yevtushenko
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 7, 2018 - 10:55pm
Bug,
re:"


What did Israel make concessions on that would appease Alt-R who stated clearly wanting to rid America of all JEWS?
 
 I dont have a clue.

Can Neddy want the same? 
I somehow doubt that in principle, but horse traders be tradin horses.
 
Mustafa




 
 
 "

Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 7, 2018 - 11:11pm
Bug,
re"BUT never Snowden because he took an oath to work for NSA & ran for his life? HUH? Run to Putin?"
 
I took an oath and had a Q-clearance for 26 years. To preserve my ability to make a living and employ my family I could not mention the development of drones for nearly a decade before they actively started the extrajudicial killings. I also could not speak about the massive increase in online surveillance,  very much along the lines of Snowdens revelations. We spoke about them in hush tones, fear pervaded our workplace. I felt afraid to even mention that I personally cost the American taxpayer over $600,000 per year. I could not mention that many of us dont actually do any work, but simply play power games, at the expense of the US taxpayer. Those that are good are quite successful, yet they provide no contribution to the nation.
 
I guarantee you that if I simply spoke about the surveillance on the outside, I would lose both my Q clearance and my job- and that is even without breaking the law, the terms of my employment, or those of my clearance.  I would have violated the principle of towing the line. And they have very powerful lawyers. I know people with rock solid cases who give up simply because they need to get their lives back. 
 
Now, If I was to move past mentioning it on the outside, to actually providing real evidence, I suspect I would have to run far -for my life.
Mmmm, where to? England? France?  
 
Exposing the crimes of the US intelligence agencies is very dangerous business.  
 
Mustafa
 
 
James Travil Added Aug 7, 2018 - 11:24pm
Good points Mustafa, I know I'll always support whistleblowers like Snowden and Assange. Snowden exposed the illegal, criminal activity of the NSA and I highly doubt took an oath to protect criminality. And Assange is only guilty of practicing journalism. Publishing truthful documents about public figures. He should be given our thanks and gratitude. 
Pardero Added Aug 8, 2018 - 12:18am
James Travil,
I agree with you, though we are in a minority. 
 
I always believed Assange to be center-left. The left can never forgive him for his part in taking down the psychopath, Hillary Clinton. The right is somewhat grateful to him, but he doesn't have a place in their world.
I think only independents and libertarians have much use for them. I think they are both heroes, which annoys the hell out of neocons and authoritarian statists. They both have grim futures.
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 8, 2018 - 8:49am
Pardero,
re:" agree with you, though we are in a minority. "
 
In the land of the free, I find that very disturbing.
 
 
Riley Brown Added Aug 9, 2018 - 10:25am
Mustafa, every big company has lobbyists and all countries have information gathering agencies that spy on other countries so they can attempt to act proactively instead of creatively.  What do you think the purpose is of having embassies in other countries is if not to gather and exchange information and try to influence each other.
 
Today we have things like the internet which make it possible for them to accomplish some of those goals remotely, is it any surprise the do that?
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 9, 2018 - 2:53pm
Riley, all you say is true, but I dont see the relevance here
MEFOBILLS Added Aug 9, 2018 - 4:56pm
Wendy says this:
Parden Pardero?
I call BS!
Reality of events that caused this MESS to begin with, begin with FAKE NEWS spread through Social Media platforms with TARGETED propaganda message.
 
Wendy, I suggest you listen to Binney and find out the source of the "manufactured events and how they evolved.  Snowden did the right thing, and Binney discusses his program while he was at NSA, which would have prevented the current situation and even the need for Snowden to whistle-blow.
 
 
William Binney
Riley Brown Added Aug 9, 2018 - 6:30pm
Mustafa, my point is that no one should be surprised any more than someone should be surprised that hackers are trying to get your personal information. 
MEFOBILLS Added Aug 9, 2018 - 7:01pm
Watch the Binney interview.  
Especially Wendy who manufactures weird connections.  
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 10, 2018 - 12:01am
Riley, I am not surprised about that. 

As I understand Chomsky, he is trying to say that  whatever the Russians have been up to pales in comparison with what the Israelis 
have been up to. He also says that it pales in comparison as to what our 1% do.
 
 He didnt make a full case, but that can easily be done.  This case would include alot more than the "business as usual" that you are describing.

So it does two things 1) it says what you are are saying about the Russians  and 2) it ups the ante in the discussion.
 
Mustafa
 
 

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