America is Lost!!

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I can’t help but think that America is lost.


It is wallowing in division, hatred and fake news.


The people have lost faith in their leaders and do not believe anything any experts say.


This is the era of conspiracy theories and lies pumped out by right-wing sites intended to cast doubt and undermine all credibility.


Nobody knows who to believe. They attach to the absurd.


It is a land of poor education and religious superstition in which hypocrisy is the norm.


All that matters is profit and cash and the elite have been creaming it in and running the system for their own ends. Trump epitomises it.


As the poor are fed false hope in the midst of this fake storm the rich are busy cleaning up before they jump ship.


America lies like a beached whale as truth recedes. It was led straight into a mess of its own making.


The Russians and terrorists look on gleefully at the discord and self-destruction they have orchestrated.


America is lost and Britain is following suit.


opher goodwin Added Aug 4, 2018 - 2:27pm
The rise of fascism and right-wing stupidity, the spectacular ignorance of the population due to such a poorly funded education system, and the brainwashed religious superstition mean that the USA is spiralling down into division, hatred and chaos. The wealthiest country in the world is led by a moron who is more of a clown than real politician and is scamming the country for every cent he can get.
America's decline is truly startling.
The terrorists won!
Dino Manalis Added Aug 4, 2018 - 2:46pm
 America is lost for the time being, but not forgotten.  It will find its way and emerge again!
Bill H. Added Aug 4, 2018 - 2:48pm
It's like watching a TV reality show....
Scary think is it's for real!
Doug Plumb Added Aug 4, 2018 - 2:57pm
lol. Opher looking at himself in the mirror but still cannot see.
Katharine Otto Added Aug 4, 2018 - 2:58pm
Au contraire.  The US is the fruit that Great Britain spawned.  Thanks to the Brits, the colonies have excelled in exploiting natural resources, waging war, exterminating natives and subjugating other foreign peoples to slave or slave-like labor to serve the legally entrenched masters and home-grown aristocrats who believe they rule by divine right or inheritance. Even our machines first came from the glorious British Empire.  We are your progeny, even down to the president, whose mother was a Scott.
Alas, tis sad to think our parents might want to disown us.  We don't have pristine colonies to which we can banish our desperate and downtrodden, to which we can empty our debtors' prisons and export our murderers and thieves.  If we are the surviving offspring of Britain's most despised criminals and social outcasts, then have mercy on our miserable condition and hope that your noble superiority will someday lead us into the light.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Aug 4, 2018 - 3:04pm
...grinds on with his hate rant against the former colonies.
Socialism will sink the UK, what is left of it.
Leroy Added Aug 4, 2018 - 3:10pm
It is the worst place on earth, except for all the rest.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Aug 4, 2018 - 3:13pm
"It is the worst place on earth, except for all the rest."
It is the best place on earth to reject socialism and worse. 
opher goodwin Added Aug 4, 2018 - 3:15pm
Dino - I love your enthusiasm! You are right! Everything goes in cycles! Everything changes! Hopefully America will rise again into reason and moral righteousness!
opher goodwin Added Aug 4, 2018 - 3:16pm
Bill - it is like a soap. But hopefully it will have a twist in the tale/tail and all come right!
opher goodwin Added Aug 4, 2018 - 3:16pm
Doug - That's cos I'm looking right through you!
opher goodwin Added Aug 4, 2018 - 3:22pm
Katharine - Aaaah! But you were the progeny of the British but rather of a very small and arrogant elite from the Public schools.
We, the trodden down majority, have risen up and we reject the elitism of that obnoxious elite. They believed that they had some God-given right to rule and live like rock-stars while the rest of us lived in the sewage. We believe they are no better than us.
America is the result of that elite setting up a system to support themselves. That is what is wrong.
opher goodwin Added Aug 4, 2018 - 3:24pm
rycK - you sound very ignorant. We don't have socialism here right now and haven't had for a long time. When we get it things will get a lot better. We will no longer be ripped off by a tiny elite like you are in the States.
opher goodwin Added Aug 4, 2018 - 3:26pm
Leroy - I love the States but I hate the racism, the elitism, the division, hatred, brainwashed religion and vast amount of ignorance. It has so much potential.
opher goodwin Added Aug 4, 2018 - 3:27pm
rycK - hatred? No. I think you have totally misunderstood - despair is the word you are looking for.
Spartacus Added Aug 4, 2018 - 4:00pm
"We cross-checked the Open Secrets list of the top 100 individuals donating to outside spending groups in the current election against the Forbes list of the world’s billionaires and found that, as of June 19, there were 22 individuals on the Open Secrets list who were billionaires. Of those 22 billionaires, 13 -- or more than half -- gave predominantly to liberal groups or groups affiliated with the Democratic Party. The other nine gave predominantly to conservative groups. (A list of billionaires and how much they donated can be found here.)
So 13/22 or roughly 60%.
Interestingly the Democratic party as a whole skews towards the wealthy. The New York Times noted in October 2016 that in a recent poll 45% of households making over $100,000 were voting for Democrat Hillary Clinton opposed to 28% of Republicans voting for Trump. Those earning above $250,000 were even more skewed towards Hillary, with 53% planning to vote for her vs only 25% for Trump."
Know your facts Oph.  You really do not know what you are talking about.  If you are going to accuse anyone of getting rich off politics its the Democrats.
Morgoth Added Aug 4, 2018 - 4:10pm
I agree.  I hope we can rebound.
opher goodwin Added Aug 4, 2018 - 4:10pm
Williaqm - I know what I am talking about - it is politicians of all persuasions who get rich.
Leroy Added Aug 4, 2018 - 4:15pm
" I love the States but I hate the racism, the elitism, the division, hatred, brainwashed religion and vast amount of ignorance. It has so much potential."
We learned from the best.  Didn't you say something to the effect that Brexit was caused by hatred and ignorance and religious intolerance?  I am too lazy to search the comments.  I guess the US is not much different in Britain in that regard.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Aug 4, 2018 - 4:23pm
We all know you spout off on socialism as the 'solution' to government , but fail [every time asked] to tell us why places like  the USSR, NOKO, PRC, Cuba and several dozen spots in Africa failed. Maybe the PRC and its current successes are due to the incorporation of capitalism into their traditional mercantilism? How much of the PRC is now socialism and how much capitalism and, of course, elitism. Or, maybe you think that Xi Jinping is not an elitist?!
I can well understand why Trump is forcing near-terminal distress on the far left and even moderate socialists as he has shown, so far, that  governments like those of Obama [an example of 'the elitism' in your words] have failed to curb the debt, failed to stimulate the economy and failed to decrease unemployment. 
Can we generalize and say that those who are not capitalists are losers? I think we can!
The far left has played their race cards, socialist cards, hate cards, legal cards and tax cards, and threaten more  taxes and none of this seems to work. 
There is no 'division' in the UK? No racism? No hatred? No 'brainwashed religion' as in the Anglican church?
Despair is the word you should be using if Trump continues to gain power and restructures the US and sets up reciprocal tariffs against the UK and EU. Could Jeremy Bernard Corbyn lead the UK into prosperity, or would he just be another tax whore like Obama and Bernie and Hillary?
Look closely at the EU with their debt and ruined economies [Greece, Ireland, Slovenia and now Italy] and tell us that the EU will surpass the US in any metric other than illegal aliens. 
Trump is showing our Potential. Live with it.
MEFOBILLS Added Aug 4, 2018 - 4:24pm
Brexit was a response to the Plutocratic elites pushing "international capital" and Frankfurt skool cultural communism down the gullets of deplorables.   Trump and Brexit are part of the same phenomena.  
Immigration of unlike peoples is to take wage arbitrage on their life energy, while simultaneously driving down the wages of the former middle class "brits" and american deplorables.  
Plutocrats are happy to have division and the break down of society.   The idea that the Russians are the "bad guys" in all of this is laughable.  Russia has little connection to the American economy, and further is sanctioned by the West to distance those connections even more.  Israel is by far the biggest influence on American politics, not Russia. 
And yes, as some commentators have noticed, Finance Capitalism emanates from "city of london" which is banker headquarters, and is "international" in outlook.  The square mile is supranational and not under the jurisdiction of the queen.   Wall Street and London are both headquarters for international finance.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 4, 2018 - 4:34pm
Trouble is that the UK has a 'special relationship' with the US...but by now the US tells the UK what to think and do ;)
I'd rather say the whole anglophone world has a feeling of superiority towards the rest of us.
The only rivals are the French on that. And I'm not talking weapons but what the old and new colonists call 'culture'. Fast food and Mince Pies LOL
Stone-Eater Added Aug 4, 2018 - 4:37pm
BTW: The Russians didn't orchestrate anything. But they play Chess quite good. Requires more brain than Cricket, Tennis or Basketball ;)
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Aug 4, 2018 - 4:50pm
" Trump and Brexit are part of the same phenomena. "
Did you mean phenomenon?
Then perhaps when Brexit is fully established and the rusty shackles of the EU are cast from the British Isles that prosperity will return to Britannia. 
As much as the far left is reluctant to acknowledge that Trump is changing the economy for the better, this is a clear economic fact given in hard economic metrics. Who cares if the Marxists disagree? Obama failed here. 
Maybe the solution is socialism under the new Democrat Leader 
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez . She boasts she can finance lost of good things [free education, guaranteed income or government job, etc.] for a mere $2T dollars taken from the top 1% in 10 years!! Wow, what a recipe for Corbyn to try! This looks like Venezuela all over again!
Of course, when the actuaries got into the fray they calculated the 10 year cost is a mere $32T dollars. Where does the rest come from? Debt?
"And yes, as some commentators have noticed, Finance Capitalism emanates from "city of london[sic]" which is banker headquarters, and is "international" in outlook.  The square mile is supranational and not under the jurisdiction of the queen. "
And how much revenue stems from this square mile?? The queen has little jurisdiction anywhere. The UK can drop this and survive? Maybe they can just trade carbon credit to survive. 
I suppose a good Marxist or a good Muslim would shut down this capitalist hotbed and bring the UK to glory. 
Maybe Corbyn can perform a socialist miracle for the UK and clean out the elites of capitalism from London Town?
MEFOBILLS Added Aug 4, 2018 - 5:12pm
Yes ryck phenomenon.  I type fast, and I assume that people get the meaning and don't worry so much about punctuation and spelling.
Britain made its living on finance after BOE inception in 1694.  At that point in time banking corporations became bed-fellows and cross directorate owners of other types of corporations.  In other words, the finance corporatist state birthed in London and evolved outward from there.  
After WW2 Atlanticist doctrine passed to the U.S.  This means that world finance can enforce its international contracts with the U.S Navy and power rather than the British Navy.  
Britain soon evolved yet another finance system using its entrepot cities (finance centers) such as Guernesy, Isle of Mann, Hong Kong, Gibraltar, Caymann Islands, etc.
The U.S. plays this game too with its offshore entities.  But, London is also issuing unlimited amounts of dollars, sometimes called EuroDollars.  These are in the category of "international" on their books.  
A lot of hysteria issuing from London is due to plutocratic masters telling Parliamentarians what to do.
These plutocrats know Britain must become a regular country of people who make real things, rather than shovel finance paper around.  
Brexit thus is an existential threat to the hidden finance powers in the city, who are one and the same who push for unlimited third world immigration.  The exact same phenomena/phenomenon is happening in the U.S., because it is the same small group of ultra-rich plutocrats calling the shots.  
These people could give a damn about the well being of their host societies, they have an "international" outlook and live behind gated walls.  They don't have to interact with the rabble.
MEFOBILLS Added Aug 4, 2018 - 5:18pm
Who does America belong to?  Not to American's.
Britian also does not belong to British:
Who does America Belong to?
James Travil Added Aug 4, 2018 - 6:10pm
I completely agree with this statement "The idea that the Russians are the "bad guys" in all of this is laughable. Russia has little connection to the American economy, and further is sanctioned by the West to distance those connections even more. Israel is by far the biggest influence on American politics, not Russia. "
I'll add that Russia has the overall GDP of Italy and that as such makes the United States look pretty damn pathetic to be fearful of them. All the Russians want is an end to Western/NATO aggression and the endless attempts of American hegemony and interfere in Russian affairs. The hypocrisy here is palpable! As far as the rest, fake news comes more from the establishment corporate mainstream media outlets than anywhere else. We have endlessly fake news from FOX, MSNBC, and even CNN and the BBC. They even have the nerve to run Syrian pro-war psyops as "news" then condemn quality independent journalists like Julian Assange for the crime of doing real journalism. Again the hypocrisy is over the top. 
Doug Plumb Added Aug 4, 2018 - 6:11pm
Congress members have but one responsibility: get re -elected. Its the media that decides who will be elected.
re "The people have lost faith in their leaders and do not believe anything any experts say."
The problem is that people DO have faith in their leaders and the experts. They don't have the understanding of human nature to see that experts and politicians can be controlled or corrupted, with their own vices, whether that is greed, lust, or whatever. This is why no one should ever have faith in a leader.
Leaders are for communists. This very idea of a "Leader" and "Lawmakers" being politicians is an idea that has been easily implanted into empty minds.
opher goodwin Added Aug 4, 2018 - 6:19pm
Leroy - I think there are very similar forces at work. They used the same tactics. There was a lot of interaction between Trump and Brexit.
opher goodwin Added Aug 4, 2018 - 6:24pm
rycK - we have a phrase for people who spout that simplistic rhetoric - living in cloud cuckoo-land.
I have answered your questions about communism many times. Communism is not socialism. The revolutions were taken over by undemocratic groups. If the Mensheviks had taken over in Russia with their brand of democratic communism we might have had a different state. Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao were tyrants.
But I am in favour of democratic socialism which is a different beast altogether. The Scandinavian countries work it very successfully and it has worked in Britain too. Unfortunately the propaganda machine of capitalism does its best to undermine it.
opher goodwin Added Aug 4, 2018 - 6:26pm
Stone - yes you are right. The ruling class of Britain and America are arrogant and feel superior to everyone. They need a good kicking.
opher goodwin Added Aug 4, 2018 - 6:27pm
Stone - Cricket is the chess of sport. It's complexity is beyond every other.
opher goodwin Added Aug 4, 2018 - 6:36pm
rycK - I think phenomena is accurate. There's more than one.
Britain and the European countries are similar to the States in America. No one of them could have achieved similar success to what the United States has achieved. By breaking away we have made ourselves poorer and more feeble.
The EU, like the United States, has many faults, but together they are more powerful in many ways. 
Breaking free of a relationship does not make you better.
As many of our economists have noted - Obama left the States in good shape and Trump has benefitted from that. It was the world recession that caused the need for borrowing. He presided over a great recovery.
Trump is doing stupid things that are very dangerous. The short-term boost by doing away with environmental restrictions and deregulating, by reducing worker rights and safety will result in a better economy, more profits for the rich, worse conditions for the poor and much environmental pollution. In the long term it will cost. The investment in old technology and polluting industry is retrograde and will damage America. The trade war is dumb.
opher goodwin Added Aug 4, 2018 - 6:39pm
Dino - I agree - all politicians care about is getting elected and having power.
opher goodwin Added Aug 4, 2018 - 6:41pm
Mefo - A great deal of our economy is tied up in finance. If, after Brexit, that finance leaks abroad we are screwed.
Who rules Britain and the US? Obviously the rich and wealthy who buy the politicians and direct the laws, fund the parties and expect tame politicians to do their bidding.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Aug 4, 2018 - 8:25pm
DUHmerica was lost decades ago. Are you only now able to see it? 
MEFOBILLS Added Aug 4, 2018 - 8:55pm
Trump has offered Britain a trade deal, which probably means full access to the American economy.
Britain will have to transit to industrial capitalism and start making things again rather than finance paper.  
Goods become prices, and prices fetch money.  There is no way around this.
Island nations need access to minerals and energy to then fashion goods.  Japan is an example of an island nation that has access to foreign minerals and has value add to the goods she produces.  
Mefo - A great deal of our economy is tied up in finance. If, after Brexit, that finance leaks abroad we are screwed.
Yes, the transition will be painful, but America has already reached her hand out - the elites in Brussels and London want to keep up their gravy train.  The U.S, is a continental country with enormous resources.
Ken Added Aug 4, 2018 - 8:56pm
doug - that is just silly.  If the media decides who gets elected,how do the republicans control the house, the senate and the presidency?  Themedia is constantly against republicans in all 3 and did everything they could to get Hillary in.
MEFOBILLS Added Aug 4, 2018 - 9:04pm
doug - that is just silly.  
Ken, it is silly to ignore that MSM is owned by just a few, in the form of cross directorates.  This then makes U.S. media almost worse than Pravda during Soviet times. (Our echoing friends are heavily implicated.)
At least in Soviet times, people knew to ignore Pravda, but in the U.S., there is a significant section of the people who lap up the MSM propaganda.  
Dupes and those who are weak minded can be appealed to with fear, uncertainty and disaster (FUD).  
Identity politics and fear mongering is trumpeted daily by MSM, to then herd the population.  This is obvious, and the fact that the public is beginning to ignore  MSM is only evidence the public is beginning to wake up.  
FUD and associated propaganda DOES have a pernicious influence on the population. 
Hillary and  Clinton gang had a long train of abuses and criminal behavior, and yet there was still a large vote for them.
Ken Added Aug 4, 2018 - 9:10pm
Our education system isn't poorly funded or even underfunded.  In fact it is quite well funded.  The problem is it is no longer under local control it is under federal control.  The department of Education (created by Jimmy Carter - one of the worst presidents ever) and is arguably unconstitutional.
The other problem with education is that it is fully controlled by the NEA and the AFT.  even in public education tenure rules and bad teachers cannot be removed.
At the college level, liberal professors outnumber conservative professors by 12-1 at the top 40 Universities.  The ratio goes up higher if you take out the military academies.  The ratio in history alone is 33.5-1  Is it no wonder most of the youth don't know the constitution or the founding and think all of our founding fathers were eveil rich slave owners?
At the public k-12 level 72% of NEA voted for Obama.  The liberal/progressive bias has directly led to indoctrination and "dumbing down" our youth.
The unions constantly block any attempts at public education reform.
The American education system is withering from an internal cancer that needs to be purged.  It doesn't need more dollars thrown at it, however that is usually the progressive answer to everything, just dump more money on it and everything will be ok.
MEFOBILLS Added Aug 4, 2018 - 9:26pm
The American education system worked fine when there were intact communities, and women volunteered.  Further, stay at home women were eyes on the street, to then keep children safe and crime down.
The woman network found kids and helped them not fall through the cracks.  
It is not money, but systemic.  Liberals are dupes who were led into the workforce by propaganda that it was good to be a wage slave.  
There were even ads on Teeevee, about wonder women who could work, then come home and make a perfect meal, keep the house perfect, and then take care of her maaaaan.  Oh and she also smoked Virginia Slims.
It is not public education... the high cost (over 15K per student now) is a function of volunteer loss, and growing overhead in administration.
Giving families money vouchers to then pay the public skoool  (or private) would expose those skoolz that use money inefficiently.  
It also doesn't help when you immigrate Maria, and she shoots out 10 little latinaxs, who consume $15K per year per student for more than 12 years.  This total bill for this is enormous.  Mario does not mow enough lawns to pay for this cost.
EXPAT Added Aug 4, 2018 - 10:28pm
The only thing lost opher is your mind. You only see the Crap, that the crap media feeds small minded doom merchants like yourself.
Trump is showing the world what it means to be a leader!
Yes, there are those with great ability who profit more than the lazy and stupid.
Yes, those who pay the most taxes, benefit the most from tax cuts.
Yes, the world is not fair to those who turn to drugs and government to solve all their problems. But it never was, and never will be!
So stop wasting your and others time by posting this childish drivel, and do something with your life!
EXPAT Added Aug 4, 2018 - 10:34pm
Here are the top 10 schools in the world:

University of Oxford (U.K.)
California Institute of Technology (U.S.)
Stanford University (U.S.)
University of Cambridge (U.K.)
Massachusetts Institute of Technology (U.S.)
Harvard University (U.S.)
Princeton University (U.S.)
Imperial College London (U.K.)
Swiss Federal Institute of Technology Zurich (SUI)
University of California, Berkeley/University of Chicago (U.S.)
Flying Junior Added Aug 5, 2018 - 1:08am
Three out of ten ain't bad.  Forty years ago, UCSD was in the top ten.
We still have CalIT and the Jacobs School of Engineering.
I was allowed into the Imperial College once as a son of a visiting professor.
Of course, America is not lost.  Mostly in the blogosphere we are not doing too well.  Our government right now is extremely illing.  But state governments are largely functional.
The country itself seems to be just fine.
Kurt Bresler Added Aug 5, 2018 - 3:42am
America is always in seeming disarray until some disastrous event occurs and brings everyone back into a thin line of agreement.   The key to what is happening is motivation and energy.  After realizing that a college degree isn't worth 2 cents without motivation and energy, most Companies now see those without college degrees but otherwise having other valuable assets as viable alternatives. 
America is like a giant organism, While one sect dies off another one is born.  What works is what is used.  What works best is what is sought and marketable.
Bringing back Manufacturing IS the NO 1 project for Trump and that will build up the middle-class working-class and that in turn will strengthen American workers, American Families, and American Government.  
Like Trump recently stated America has helped build up many countries in the world and now it needs to REBUILD itself.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 4:37am
Jeffry - While there have always been obvious major flaws it is only now that those disparate elements have gelled into the hopeless mess we now have. Never before was there the possibility of a Trump.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 4:41am
Mefo - offering the possibility of a trade deal and actually having a trade deal are two different things. The terms and conditions of such a deal are unlikely to be advantageous to us. American standards on products such as food do not meet our standards. Are we going to be forced to swallow it?
In reality that trade deal will take many years and in the end will probably not be good.
At present we trade with our neighbours. Why would it make sense to ship things halfway around the world rather than from next door?
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 4:42am
Ken - the media is owned and run by wealthy right-wingers.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 4:44am
Mefo - and Trump has an even longer list of crimes and misdemeanours. 
Stone-Eater Added Aug 5, 2018 - 4:44am
Ah...finally a realistic comment LOL.
And MEFO linked a good one.
America is not lost when They The People finally wake up. But the elite makes sure that it won't happen. Today in Portland again Antifa against Trumpists on the streets. Divide and rule the sheep.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 4:56am
Ken - having worked in the USA education system, all-be-it many moons ago, and had a thorough debrief with my 79 colleagues who worked on the same exchange programme across the breadth of America, we shared one thing in common - we were appalled by the low standards and lack of funding.
I certainly did not see any left-wing bias - far from it. All the staff where I taught were gun-totin' rednecks. And that was California Los Angeles.
I will agree on the attitude towards getting rid of poor teachers though. They need rooting out and replacing. The trouble is that you'd probably empty most schools of their teachers. Unions should not support poor teachers. More should be done.
One of the major problems was the localised nature of teaching. They lacked national criteria to set standards. The result was extremely patchy education with low standards.
Nobody checked the level I taught to or cared. As long as I turned up and kept them quiet the standard was immaterial. Totally different to the UK where I was subjected to regular inspections of a draconian nature and monitored to ensure I hit standards. That regime is what is required. Very clear national standards need to be applied and adhered to with regular inspections to ensure they are being met. The kids deserve that.
I was using teaching materials that I used for twelve and thirteen year olds in the UK with my top classes of seventeen and eighteen year olds in the USA. The level I taught my UK seventeen and Eighteen year olds exceeded what was being taught in American universities.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 4:59am
Mefo - the days when women were second-class citizens chained to the home and bringing up kids has gone. Women are equals. They aren't going to volunteer to be skivvies in the classroom or control kids out of school. Those days are gone and good riddance. They were days of racism, repression, hypocrisy and nastiness with a conservative veneer.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 5:07am
Expat - Wow! 3 out of the top ten from a tiny island of 60 million people!!
But hey - who made that list and based on what criteria?
Best for what?
As a retired Headteacher who was involved with Oxford, Cambridge and many other top UK universities I know that many other universities had higher standards in some departments to Oxford and Cambridge. 
It is like the PISA international tables of comparison.
The UK is in the top 30 but the USA hardly features. They are dominated by Asians who cram for the tests. It is hardly a valid comparison.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 5:09am
Flying - that is good to hear. All I see is tribalism, division, hatred and a country that is corrupt, racist and only concerned with money.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 5:12am
Kurt - I can't see how alienating half the population in tribal madness is going to help create a better country. Likewise I can't see how the resurrection of old defunct industries are going to make anything better.
America has been busy abroad bombing and destabilising in order to establish its economic empire. I don't see much building going on out there.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 5:14am
Stone - they are certainly being divided - keep the hate levels up so they can't think.
Maureen Foster Added Aug 5, 2018 - 5:23am
You’ve offered not a single piece of evidence to support any of your assertions about America.  The fact of the matter is that the problems facing America are similar to the problems facing your geographic area.  The difference is that America stands a part in her economic and military might.  Oh and by the way, if you’re concerned about Fake News, you should love Donald Trump. 
Benjamin Goldstein Added Aug 5, 2018 - 5:56am
Replace the word "America" with "Europe"!
Cullen Kehoe Added Aug 5, 2018 - 7:05am
The U.S.A. may be lost, but not for the reason you think. 

If it's truly lost, it's because it's now fighting wars on behalf of Saudi Arabia so they keep OPEC pricing oil in U.S. dollars. That ultimately keeps the U.S. dollar the reserve currency of the world (he who wants oil, needs U.S. dollars) and keeps U.S. treasuries in demand. 
Without that, the demand for U.S. debt would surely dry up which would ultimately mean that the U.S.A. would have to live within its means and demonstrate it can pay back it's $20 trillion public debt. 
And that would be deep cuts across the board, ultimately in aid to the world and in benefits to its locals. Retirees, the poor, the military, NASA, and yes, NATO and defense of Europe. 
The Deep State is getting desperate because it's harder to keep the system going. The U.S. is a shadow of it's former self, economically. 
The world is changing. Trump is a symptom. The power and riches of the world are flowing to Asia. And there's nothing anyone, in the long term, can do about it. 
Doug Plumb Added Aug 5, 2018 - 8:02am
Ken, you should read a few propaganda books. The best one for you is Noam Chomsky's "Manufactering Consent". Manufactering consent is what the media does.
Thomas Sutrina Added Aug 5, 2018 - 8:07am
Democratic governments require people with virtue or the government will fail.  It seems that America and parliamentary nations, government by the consent of the people, go through cycles of starting with virtuous people, getting use to having a virtuous government complacent, loosing the virtuous representatives and getting self serving people, people realizing the failure of government, virtuous people want a return to good government, and the replacement of the self serving people with virtuous people.  America is in the last stages of the second cycle. 
Those consent governments that have been around for a century or more have with in their culture the idea of consent of the governed so they are much harder to topple and become totalitarian, man's law nations.   America and Europe are at the testing point.  I think we all see that.  
TexasLynn Added Aug 5, 2018 - 10:42am
EXPAT >> So stop wasting your and others time by posting this childish drivel...
I hate Trump.  I hate America. I hate the rich.  I hate religion.  I hate the deplorable people of America. I hate that Brexit happened.  Since I hate all these things, I'm sure there is a connection.  Oh... but I don't hate anything or anybody.  I never said that.
Yeah... this crap IS getting old....
Leroy Added Aug 5, 2018 - 11:08am
All we need is a little socialism and everything will be alright.
Dave Dubya Added Aug 5, 2018 - 11:33am
Right on, brother!
The comments from the Cult of Right-wing Authoritarian Personalities are the proof supporting your case. CRAP sells. They are at war with the free press, democracy, the truth and basic human decency. 
Leroy Added Aug 5, 2018 - 11:53am
Cult of Light-wing Authoritarian Personalities (CLAPs) is the new liberal disease.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Aug 5, 2018 - 12:18pm
I am so frustrated at the moment that I think there will be another Noah situation or another Sodom.
What I find strange when I read the Tora is that G-d closed the heart of the pharao. I mean, why? I have just realized that there are closed hearts, people who will not listen.
I cannot even read the LA Times in Germany because our government makes communication over the internet so difficult. Big Tech is in cohorts with the authoritarians.
I think the Lord will eventually kill the anti-speech people. Of course, I'm depressed. I can just pray that hearts open again. There are many stories in the Bible when the Lord listened to his people and did not smite them. I don't konw. I don't even know what I should wish for at this point in time.
This is what I see when I go to
So much for liberals being for liberty and decency.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 12:53pm
Maureen - LOL - Trump is the chief purveyor of fake news. I think he has successfully confused the American public.
Not a shred of evidence for the division and hatred?? Read the thread.
Not a shred of evidence for the rise of the fascist right-wing? Watch them marching.
Russian influence on facebook - proved and admitted by facebook.
Not a shred of evidence for the undermining of rational, intelligent thought? - Look at the attitude to climate change. Look at the deregulation and environmental laws that have been dismantled. Look at the silly chanting of fake news every time an expert speaks out. Look at the irrational stances towards extinction rates.
No I don't leave silly links to extremist right-wing sites that defy logic.
I put forward a view for debate.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 5, 2018 - 12:55pm
opher:  You know you've hit it when you get the crap from WB rightists like you have here.  They all claim they are super patriots, but now love Russia more than life itself.  (Russian interaction is when "life begins," eh?) 
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 12:57pm
Benjamin - no - we still listen to experts and rational thought over here. We know we have a problem with the rise of fascism and racism and we'll deal with it. We're not pumping out exaggerated stupidity like the right-wing sites. We're not swamped and looking forward to sharia law any time soon. We know the problems with mass immigration and environmental destruction and we're addressing them. Brexit is divisive but it will pass and we'll deal with it. We're not the rape or murder centres of the world. Me thinks you've been fed on too much fake news from Trumpo.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 1:01pm
Thanks for that Cullen - I would largely agree. Trump, the division, the racism and hatred, the rise of the right-wing, the clutching at outmoded technology, the whole targeted fake news to undermine experts and scientists, the poor education and public services, the poor infrastructure - maybe they're all symptoms of the decline.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 1:02pm
Doug - glad to hear you're reading someone who makes sense. Chomsky is great.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 1:04pm
Thomas - there certainly seems to be a loss of virtue and a lot of self-serving politicians devoid of morality.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 1:09pm
Expat/Tex - Trump a leader to be looked up to??? Only when he's in his nappy as a big balloon being ridiculed for the smug arrogant self-serving buffoon he is.
You are easily taken in by the self-serving clown.
I'm not impressed by hypocrisy, misogyny or racism.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 1:10pm
Leroy - you are learning.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 1:12pm
Dave - you're right CRAP sells. But perhaps the President represents the Cult of United Neoconservative Trumpists.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 1:13pm
Hearing voices again Benjamin??
Benjamin Goldstein Added Aug 5, 2018 - 1:18pm
It is what I mean. There is no listening. I predict a civil war in Europe within the next fifteen years.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 1:59pm
Ben - I suppose that's better than an uncivil one.
Who do you think will be fighting who?
Benjamin Goldstein Added Aug 5, 2018 - 2:25pm
Those who listen and try to understand the others against the self-righteous who censor everybody else.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 2:27pm
Ben - right - what about the deluded who only think they listen and understand?
MEFOBILLS Added Aug 5, 2018 - 2:27pm
You have cause and effect reversed:
If it's truly lost, it's because it's now fighting wars on behalf of Saudi Arabia so they keep OPEC pricing oil in U.S. dollars.
The 73 Kissinger Saudi petrodollar agreement was initiated by Kissinger and Council of Foreign relations.  The main element in it is to price oil in dollars and recycle said petrodollars into dollar zone economies, especially into TBills.  
Women are not equals, nature has given them a different role than men.  If you look at it with non-hypnotized eyes, you will know what I am saying is true.
Here is Opher's Amygdal firing and emitting fear.  This is a constant theme of the Liberal brain.  It is emotional and fear driven:
Mefo - offering the possibility of a trade deal and actually having a trade deal are two different things. The terms and conditions of such a deal are unlikely to be advantageous to us.
Opher, your above statement is pure fear and conjecture not in accord with anything.  
Here is another whopper from Opher:
``Ken - the media is owned and run by wealthy right-wingers.
For the most part, the MSM media is owned and run by Jews.  Even Reuters which is the main feed is Jewish owned.  OK?  This is just plain objective fact, and our ((echoing)) friends are decidedly NOT CONSERVATIVE ON SOCIAL ISSUES.  
The media is saturated with Liberal messages, and a lot of WB authors come here and regurgitate - parroting what they heard.  
Benjamin Goldstein Added Aug 5, 2018 - 2:30pm
They don't exist.
Katharine Otto Added Aug 5, 2018 - 2:51pm
I vote for listening, tolerance, and attempting to understand all points of view.  I don't see much of that anywhere.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 2:53pm
Mefo - I will never accept that women are better than men. We are different and almost certainly as good.
Mefo - you live in cloud cuckoo land if you think that a trade deal with the US will either be done quickly or to our advantage. I'm a realist. I look at what America really does. I count the bodies. They never give anything away.
Yeah - right - another anti-Semite. Murdoch looks like an Ozzie fascist to me.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 2:54pm
Ben - well they might not exist but they sure are deluded.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Aug 5, 2018 - 2:57pm
Opher, I'm impatient. We have a lot of really dumb leftists on WB. We also have a lot of really dumb rightists here. YOU ARE JUST DISHONEST. You absolutely do know who is following intensely what the other side has to say and who is constantly trying to silence people.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 3:12pm
Ben - well I would agree that we have a bunch of really dumb rightists on WB. Can't see what I'm doing that is dishonest. I explain what I think and challenge the crap that comes out of right-wing propaganda sites.
I know what I stand for - a fairer society.
I know what I stand against - fascism, intolerance, religious fundamentalism, brainwashing, torture and lies.
I've had a few chats with some more open rightists but most are just tribal.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Aug 5, 2018 - 3:22pm
OMG you don't even admit that there are really dumb leftists here. I won't name names. It just illustrates how dishonest you are. I'm sure that you know who is dumb and who isn't.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 5, 2018 - 3:38pm
"Knowing who is dumb and who isn't". Means who has same POV as me isn't ? Yawn.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Aug 5, 2018 - 3:44pm
Stone-Eater: No, but that statement qualifies you for one category.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 5, 2018 - 4:24pm
That was a slightly ironical reply to your comment. But maybe you didn't get that ?
Stone-Eater Added Aug 5, 2018 - 4:26pm
BTW: would you mind to give a clear definition of what you call a leftist and a rightist for us unqualified and hinterwäldlerischen foreigners ?
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 5:45pm
Ben - there are plenty of dumb people on here and some interesting ones too. Sometimes even the dumb ones come out with something worth thinking about. I find this labelling of people rather tiresome. It is merely a stereotyping so that you don't have to bother thinking about what they might have to say.
opher goodwin Added Aug 5, 2018 - 5:46pm
Stone - I think Ben won't actually say what he thinks.
MEFOBILLS Added Aug 5, 2018 - 7:58pm
Yeah - right - another anti-Semite. Murdoch looks like an Ozzie fascist to me.
OPHER,  Please prove to me that the U.S. mainstream media is not owned primarily by our ((Friends)).  
OK?  You cannot just label somebody as an anti-semite, and ignore facts.  People who ignore facts and reality have something wrong with their brain function.  They are unhinged.  It is irrational in the full sense of the word to make pretend.
The media is owned by an in-group, who has an agenda.  The very fact that it was bought-out and/or had the law changed (Clinton's telecommunication act) is proof in action. 
Sorry, labels and ad-hominems no longer work.  
MEFOBILLS Added Aug 5, 2018 - 8:02pm
I never said this:
Mefo - I will never accept that women are better than men. We are different and almost certainly as good.
Did you even read what I wrote?  Women are different than men, not better, and this difference means they have a different role.  
Evolution has selected women for their role.  This desire of sixth wave feminists to denigrate men and assume the male role is unnatural.
Since when is "different" better or worse.  I also point out that negroes have functional differences than white people, as predicated by evolution.  Social Scientists know this beyond doubt, but WB virtue signalers will never agree, because it goes against their implanted brainwashing.  
Cullen Kehoe Added Aug 6, 2018 - 1:37am
@MEFOBILLS - careful with your views on race. Now that most Asian countries (Japan, China, Singapore, Taiwan) are cleaning the clocks of European and Americans kids on standardized tests, those same views could be applied back on your and your descendants by the ascendant Asians. 
opher goodwin Added Aug 6, 2018 - 5:22am
Mefo - I think this Jewish conspiracy theory is garbage. I do not know a huge amount about the USA media but I sure as hell know that UK media is owned by right-wing millionaires like the Ozzie Murdock who is not Jewish.
opher goodwin Added Aug 6, 2018 - 5:29am
Mefo - your whole premise is overturned by technology. I would agree that men and women are different and that there are differences between races. That does not in any way imply that any of those differences create a superiority. When it comes to who is best at anything that comes down to who is the best at it - not their race or gender. 
Women were adapted by evolution for certain roles, as were men. But we are no longer living in that natural world. Those adaptations no longer apply. We are not charging off with spears chasing mammoths. We killed and ate them all long ago. Nowadays it isn't a question of strength. We have equipment to do that stuff.
Women bring attributes to the workplace that are as good as men. Their intelligence and skills are on a par. Likewise with all races.
In time, with interbreeding, we will produce hybrids which as any biologist knows, will be better and stronger.
opher goodwin Added Aug 6, 2018 - 5:30am
Cullen - exactly right - the Asians are sweeping the board or Maths, Science and Reading.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 6, 2018 - 5:35am
No doubt anyway that influential people like Kissinger, Horowitz, Cohens and Kochs, Rosensteins and Greenbergs, Bloombergs and Kushners, Zuckerbergs, heck, any -bergs and -fields and -steins etc. have something in common ;)
opher goodwin Added Aug 6, 2018 - 6:43am
Stone - are you supporting this crazy Jewish conspiracy theory?
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Aug 6, 2018 - 10:56am
"rycK - you sound very ignorant. We don't have socialism here right now and haven't had for a long time. When we get it things will get a lot better. We will no longer be ripped off by a tiny elite like you are in the States."
Anybody notice how everyone here is ignorant except Opher. The UK has lots of socialist programs but they are not socialist at this time. 
Is  that an ignorant statement above by Opher?
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Aug 6, 2018 - 10:57am
Perhaps,  you have been brainwashed and are too ignorant to understand capitalism. 
opher goodwin Added Aug 6, 2018 - 11:03am
rycK - we are not socialist and haven't been for quite a while. Right now we have quite an extreme right-wing Tory government. You are ignorant on political matters concerning the UK.
opher goodwin Added Aug 6, 2018 - 11:05am
rycK - yeah - perhaps we all have. In fact we certainly are all products of our culture and upbringing. Who isn't? Fortunately I received a very free childhood so escaped much religious and political brainwashing. I began to explore that in my late teens.
Lindsay Wheeler Added Aug 6, 2018 - 12:03pm
America is going the way of Venezuela! The Democrats brought in 60 million Hispanics and protecting another 15 million illegal Hispanics--they have created their own voting bloc of sure Democrat holders. The head of the Democrat party is an Hispanic and he had nothing but praise of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez!  
It is the Left-wing hate  that has brought this about!  Look the Democrat Party doesn't care that Hillary had TWO secret email servers while in government service. The Democrat Party doesn't care about the Natural Born Citizen clause in the Constitution. 
America is a failed state and is marching fast to the dystopian future of Venezuela!
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Aug 6, 2018 - 12:34pm
"rycK - yeah - perhaps we all have. In fact we certainly are all products of our culture and upbringing. Who isn't? Fortunately I received a very free childhood so escaped much religious and political brainwashing. I began to explore that in my late teens."
We can all wonder what  you were taught then given the notion that you were not brainwashed but are devoted to socialism at all costs. 
"America is a failed state and is marching fast to the dystopian future of Venezuela!"
Capitalism via Trumpism has made America stronger at the expense of much of the other countries. Again, capitalism rules .
But, didnt you know that Venezuela is a socialist state??
Here is Hugo and his praise of the Jackel:

Chávez Offers Public Defense for Carlos the Jackal

NOV. 21, 2009


CARACAS, Venezuela — President Hugo Chávez is heaping praise on Ilich Ramírez Sánchez, the Venezuelan better known as Carlos the Jackal and implicated in hijackings and terror attacks across Europe in the 1970s and ’80s, describing him in a speech here Friday night as a “revolutionary fighter.”
Mr. Chávez, speaking to an applauding gathering of leftist political parties from around the world, said he knew he was risking scorn by defending Mr. Ramírez, who is 60 years old and serving a life sentence in France for the murder of two French police agents and a Lebanese informer in Paris’s Latin Quarter in 1975.
“I defend him. I don’t care what they say tomorrow in Europe,” Mr. Chávez said.
Is this good socialism?

Dave Dubya Added Aug 6, 2018 - 12:35pm
The Cult of Right-wing Authoritarian Personalities' con-servatives dupes can always be relied upon for their "Two Minutes Hate" tradition.
Venezuela!!! Freak out!!! (Hate liberals!)
Email!!! Everybody FREAK OUT!!! (Hate liberals!)
Left wing hate!!!! KEEP HATING THOSE COMMIES and keep FREAKING OUT!!! (Keep hating liberals!)
Keep supporting tax cuts for the rich!! It trickles down. I promise!!
Believe and trust Big Brother Kim Jong Don to tell the truth and look out for the little guy.
It's so Orwellian, so simple and authoritarian, only simple minded authoritarian true believers know what's really going on.
"The very concept of objective truth is fading out of the world. Lies will pass into history."

"In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
Orwell saw it all coming.
opher goodwin Added Aug 6, 2018 - 1:01pm
Lindsay - let's hope it works then and they vote out these right-wing extremists.
opher goodwin Added Aug 6, 2018 - 1:03pm
rycK - is Venezuela all you've got. That is so boring. Try looking at places where socialism is working fine to create a much more civilised society.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Aug 6, 2018 - 1:05pm
Nicolás Maduro now leads the most important socialist country in the world. We should heap praise on Maduro and also Hugo for their fine work in defeating capitalism. 
Maybe the UK can follow in his footstepts. Raise taxes and hope!
opher goodwin Added Aug 6, 2018 - 1:05pm
Dave - George certainly foresaw the way lies would be peddled as truth.
What is happening now is obscene.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Aug 6, 2018 - 1:10pm
"rycK - is Venezuela all you've got. That is so boring. Try looking at places where socialism is working fine to create a much more civilised society."
I got: Cuba, NOKO, PRC, Congo, Nicaragua, Russia, Hungary, .
Show us the civilised society site in any of these. 
Try Sweden without selling guns for 150 years. 
Try Switzerland without hiding dirty money for 150 years. 
opher goodwin Added Aug 6, 2018 - 1:13pm
Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland and the UK during a number of phases - all great examples of socialism working.
You can only criticise Sweden for selling arms?? Wow!!
Benjamin Goldstein Added Aug 6, 2018 - 1:13pm
I kind of agree that what we see now is obscene. But at least people in the US can see it and look at it from multiple perspectives. WE cannot even see the fucking LA Times! I also cannot listen to the Joyce Kaufman Show on Soundcloud anymore. It is just annoying. Everybody is afraid to get punished or sued by and under the EU. That is obscene.
The lies against Israel are also obscene. E.g. the new national law does not bring ONE disadvantage to any group. But the media reports in innuendo mode, so people think the hell is going to happen with non-Jews. That is obscene. Terrorist cuddling Corbyn and Merkel are obscene.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Aug 6, 2018 - 1:18pm
Opher: You are a crazy liar. None of these European countries were ever socialist although Britain with at the brink before the goddess Maggie T cleaned up.
Dave Dubya Added Aug 6, 2018 - 1:18pm
ryck has a point.
The US is becoming exactly like North Korea!!! FREAK OUT!!! Just what those evil commie liberals want! (Hate liberals!)
His only point is, he's a duped cultist and doesn't know it.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Aug 6, 2018 - 1:50pm
And they still cannot explain why socialism always fails. 
"Terrorist cu[o]ddling Corbyn and Merkel are obscene."
Merkel is East Berlin trained Marxist surging on some guilt trip from WW2 to open Germany's borders to losers and thugs and Corbyn will hope he can double taxes if elected and crush the British Isles for all time. 
But, such losers are the grand hope of what is left of the dizzy socialist. I hope they succeed and show the world how the left works, for good. 
Trump should crush them all. 
Dave Dubya Added Aug 6, 2018 - 1:53pm
Trump should crush them all. HEIL TRUMP!
opher goodwin Added Aug 6, 2018 - 1:54pm
Ben - it is impolite to call people liars - especially when their only crime is not to agree with you.
The Atlee government in 1945-52 was a highly successful socialist government that brought in many great things that successive right-wing governments have found hard to eradicate - despite their best efforts.
Thatcher was a divisive disgrace - much the same as Trump. She sold off all our assets at cut-price to her chums, squandered our North Sea Oil bonanza, took us to war out of incompetence, cut our manufacturing industry drastically, sold off our council housing resulting in long-term housing problems, shut down our mining for political reasons, deregulated - resulting in our hugely damaging BSE crisis - and devastated our public services. A litany of wanton destruction and ideological madness.
opher goodwin Added Aug 6, 2018 - 1:54pm
Ben - BTW - I go for social democracy.
opher goodwin Added Aug 6, 2018 - 1:55pm
Dave - I have to agree. The level of brainwashing in the States is frightening.
TexasLynn Added Aug 6, 2018 - 2:03pm
BG >> WE cannot even see the fucking LA Times!
That pretty well settles the argument of where the oppressive reside.  If your system can't even tolerate the Los Angeles Times, how committed to freedom and democracy can you be?  You're not... not even remotely.  The EU should go the way of the USSR and the sooner the better.  God bless the English for being the first to see this.
These are a taste of the fruits of a socialist state.
opher goodwin Added Aug 6, 2018 - 3:07pm
Tex - Hi - I must say I was pretty disgusted by the standard of news in US newspapers and TV. It's much better in the UK despite the right-wing bias.
TexasLynn Added Aug 6, 2018 - 3:34pm
OG >> I must say I was pretty disgusted by the standard of news in US newspapers and TV. 
What the ^%#$ does that have to do with my and BGs point!?  Dam, Opher... you can't even read the LA Times in EU (whatever the freaking standard or value)!  Address THAT!
You get cornered and you throw up a shiny red dot and hope people will chase it like a cat... You're getting as bad as Michka when it comes to reading and addressing actual points.
Personally, I don't think you're missing the point (like Michka)... I think you're just at a loss on how to respond and use the red dot as a defensive mechanism.
I'm chasing you're little red dots.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 6, 2018 - 4:34pm
LA Times is on the net. Where's the problem ?
wsucram15 Added Aug 6, 2018 - 4:50pm
Why does Opher have to stop posting his opinions anywhere on this site? This site believes in freedom of ALL speech if I am not mistaken.
If you don't like it..don't read the article...don't just give someone a hard time because you want to be ignorant of another person and their opinion.
Shit, I have to read enough of the dribble out of most of you on here which is slowly sinking into a black hole of something beyond stupidity.
You guys argue over stuff that has been going on for years, the poor get poorer, while the rich make money off their backs. Is it worse than before..maybe.
But is it more visible to all..definitely.
Look..I do not like Trump but have given him every chance as a President. Whatever happens next will not be because of his savvy however.
As far as Russia..Putin is Russia. The economy is decent and many of the people do just fine.  It is the 11th largest economy in the world.  Putin on the other hand isnt 11th at anything.
  Russia or Russians in general I guess would be just fine, except one...Putin.  Now that is my opinion based on my studies in international law and trade. 
I have to give it to the guy though..he is smarter than the average bear. 
Benjamin Goldstein Added Aug 6, 2018 - 4:54pm
Stone-Eater: You don't live in the EU. The LA Times is NOT online in the EU.
Dave Dubya Added Aug 6, 2018 - 4:54pm
LA Times is on the net. Where's the problem ?  Sounds like it's between someone's ears. 
The Righties want to suggest censorship where it doesn't exist. 
 American news outlets including The Chicago Tribune, The Los Angeles Times and The Arizona Daily Star abruptly blocked access to their websites from Europe on Friday, choosing to black out readers rather than comply with a strict new data privacy law in the European Union that limits what information can be collected about people online.
opher goodwin Added Aug 6, 2018 - 5:10pm
Tex - Ben is talking crap. It is merely money. There is no readership for the LA Times over here. We've got better papers. I know I could buy the LA Times if I willing to pay the price.
opher goodwin Added Aug 6, 2018 - 5:15pm
Stone - insane isn't it.
wsucram15 Added Aug 6, 2018 - 5:16pm
Now as far as America goes..we have problems now, serious ones. anyone who cant see that is blind, deaf and dumb, (excuse the expression please).  We hate each other whether it be politically, ideologically, geographically,  skin color, the sex of the person, or just people that are different...hate breeds more hate. 
Its always been always has. I have seen it and both as a former business woman and single mother experienced it.  Its just in the open now like it has been in the past...and then things calm down for a time.
America with its huge diversity cannot ever be completely "one unified voice."  I have seen that once in my life and it was 9/11/01. Thats it.  It lasted about a week, maybe two and people went back to arguing...
No matter how much history shows us, we just never learn. 
opher goodwin Added Aug 6, 2018 - 5:17pm
Jeanne - there is most definitely a greater degree of intolerance on this site than there was when I first came on here. At least people would argue and debate back then. Now it is just tribal abuse.
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 6, 2018 - 6:13pm
Steven Bodzin, a former Bloomberg journalist, found that “just on the natural gas, never mind the electricity or water subsidies, Koch profits from a direct Venezuelan government subsidy of $1.23 for every thousand cubic feet of gas consumed at Fertinitro.” For Koch Industries, whose role in the partnership is to unload half of the 6 million tons of fertilizer produced by Fertinitro every year on the American market, that equals up to $123.6 million in subsidies every year–which means that the Kochs recouped their investment after just one year.
During the 1990s, under the second term of President Carlos Andres Pérez, neoliberal reforms were introduced. In his February 2, 1989, inauguration speech, the newly elected Pérez riled against the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and other international lending organizations, but just a few weeks later he announced a neoliberal policy packet known as El Gran Viraje—the great turnaround. Under pressure from foreign creditors to implement an IMF-style austerity program, he dismantled protections, deregulated prices, and reduced social spending.
IMF “reforms” allowed foreign companies to siphon off Venezuela’s vast resource wealth. It was not “wholly unusual for the government of Rafael Caldera to sign contracts that were wholly injurious to the national interest—hence the backlash that led to the election of Chavez and then the latter’s sweeping nationalization strategies,” said Dr Julia Buxton, of University of Bradford. At the time, Venezuela sold oil to foreign companies at below the costs of production and handed out state assets to foreign corporations for free, like when Venezuela sold off the entire information-technology division of PDVSA, one of the world’s leading oil companies, for $1,000 to US defense contractor and Fortune 500 company SAIC.
As one of the world’s biggest fertilizer middlemen, Koch Industries—which seems to control about 5% of the global fertilizer market and is the world’s third-largest marketer of the stuff—was the sort of multinational American company well positioned to take advantage of these harsh IMF reforms, whereby wealth would be transferred out of impoverished Venezuela and into the Kochs’ libertarian coffers.
opher goodwin Added Aug 6, 2018 - 6:31pm
Thank you for that Wendy - most illuminating.
MEFOBILLS Added Aug 6, 2018 - 6:51pm
Cullen says this:
@MEFOBILLS - careful with your views on race. Now that most Asian countries (Japan, China, Singapore, Taiwan) are cleaning the clocks of European and Americans kids on standardized tests, those same views could be applied back on your and your descendants by the ascendant Asians. 
My answer:  No shit.
This is well known.  
Also, averages don't always matter, it is the tails, or the distribution.  White people still produce more genius and push technology more than any other group.   The smart fraction of the white population, especially genius white men, has been the main driver of science and technology for a long time now.  If the other races catch up, then the more the merrier.  Still waiting.  The odd South Indian and North East Asian is welcome to join in.
The better way to look at it is North vs South.  Northern derived people groups suffered through the long fourth ice ages, and hence developed counting, abstract reasoning, long term delayed gratifications, and methods for 'social lubricant."  
Sorry if WB people get butt hurt by this reality.  Not acknowledging these racial realities lead to bad policy outcome.  
For example, immigrating any third world person as if they are equal replacement is now swamping the first world.  This policy prescription is based on the canard that all the races are the same.  The output is dysgenics and high social friction, and probably failed societies.  
Being hypnotized with BS has negative effects of world shattering import.
wsucram15 Added Aug 6, 2018 - 8:05pm
I like Wendy..
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 6, 2018 - 8:07pm
Very welcome and although I have bias to the Koch Suckers it seemed a perfect example for Americans using Venezuela example. Further results were market confidence on Bonds after Koch (private American investment was removed from. continued.....
A few weeks after Venezuela announced the nationalization, The Economist predicted that it would have dire consequences for Venezuela’s economy, and warned that the government might not honor the **fertilizer plant’s several hundred million dollars in debt obligations.***
But according to Bloomberg, the price of the plant’s bond notes didn’t go down at all—it went up by 33 percent! That’s right, as soon as Hugo Chavez announced the takeover, the bonds became more valuable, meaning that bond holders believed that the business was worth more with Koch Industries out of the picture.
This is important and worth repeating: Koch Industries’ involvement in the fertilizer plant was actually a drag on the operation and investor confidence. Getting rid of the Koch’s stake in Fertinitro had the effect of boosting the value of the company, which is funny considering the fact that Koch Industries was the only major private investor in the fertilizer plant.
But it makes perfect sense. Who would want to invest in a company owned by a billionaire freeloader like Charles Koch, who siphons funds out of other people’s pockets and into his personal bank account, while adding nothing of value? 
No wonder bond holders reacted so positively to the nationalization.
So for all the enterprising Americans out there wondering
“What’s the secret to the Kochs’ success?”
The answer isn’t pretty—especially if you’re one of the gullible Tea Party libertarians who believe the Kochs practice the free-market libertarianism that they preach.
Their ability to reap billions and billions in profits year after year isn’t about buying low and selling high, but about buying **subsidized-by-the-state, and selling subsidized-by-the-state.**
Using taxpayer money to cover the costs and ensure profits every time—that’s the simple formula to the Kochs’ success.
~The Bug~
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 6, 2018 - 8:36pm
The brothers are better at the libertarian lie than their father ever was: their self-help libertarianism is more effective pro-billionaire propaganda than his racist Bircher rants. But while the tone may be different, the objective is very much the same:
**to con the American people into voting against their own interests.
The next time you hear Michele Bachmann (who’s a welfare queen in her own right) screaming at the top of her lungs that socialized healthcare is “reaching down the throat and ripping the guts out of freedom”
or watch a Cato Institute shill on Meet the Press layout a case for why you should support the privatization of social security, remember: **they aren’t hypocrites,
**they’re cons looking to rip you off.
~The Bug~
wsucram15 Added Aug 6, 2018 - 9:02pm
Opher..yes because people aren't afraid of what is incorrect to say anymore. Instead of hiding views things are in plain sight for the most part.  
If people dont like you they say so now to your face or for the less ballsy ones, online, 3,000 miles away.
 Love your articles...I really do.
Hey Opher.. on another note, I just won a case of sorts today against one of the defendants from the fire at the house.  I did all the legal work and they settled out of court. One down..4 more to go.
Wendy..good stuff.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 6, 2018 - 9:18pm
Badlose, America is not lost, you are projecting.  With views like yours, your nation is lost.
Ken Added Aug 6, 2018 - 9:18pm
Opher - you are just flat wrong.  the US ranks 4th in the world in spending per student and that has changed little over the past 15 years.
Throwing more money at the problem won't fix it.  As I noted in my post there are a number of reasons that need to be fixed.  Funding isn't one of them.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 6, 2018 - 9:19pm
Wendy is off her rocker.  Before I was permanently deleted from Linked In for the crime of ConservaSpeak, Wendy had quite a few things to say, few of them wise.
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 6, 2018 - 9:34pm
You think too highly of yourself really
or perhaps paranoid due to religious challenges you could NOT handle.
AGAIN silly man, nobody is a CAPTIVE audience of ANY social media platform .
Blocking or simply ignoring my unwiseisms was a matter of choice which makes your point moot as usual.
Morgoth Added Aug 6, 2018 - 10:14pm
I second the motion, I like Wendy.
How’s the campaign going, Ryan?
Dave Dubya Added Aug 6, 2018 - 11:57pm
that has changed little over the past 15 years You're right about that.
Your link shows the amount from 2005 to 2014 was raised from $12,000 to $12,300 per student.  A whopping 3% over nine years. Sounds like a reduction considering inflation. It wasn't the private schools that saw the cuts. That would compound the public losses even further. 
This is what you call "Throwing money at the problem". 
But you guys have always hated public education anyway.
Compare that to Norway's 12,600 to 15,000 for the same period. And Switzerland's 10,900 to 14,900. And Austria's 11,500 to 13,700.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2018 - 3:59am
Well here in Switzerland only some YT stuff is not available. Even torrenting is not forbidden. Seems that the EU has more censorship and regulations than we have. One more good reason for not being in that club :)
opher goodwin Added Aug 7, 2018 - 4:10am
Wendy - That is most illuminating. Thanks for explaining that so well. When will people wake up?
opher goodwin Added Aug 7, 2018 - 4:17am
Jeanne - Thanks for that. I'll continue to write whatever comes to me for as long as I want. It certainly shows up the fault-lines of the blinkered tribalism that exists.
Some people are just extremely rude and shrill - as if that is any way to win an argument. Some people just like trotting out exaggerated quotes from bogus right-wing sites as if that's impressive. 
It is really interesting to see that many people are simply unable to engage in intelligent debate. I've had very few of those with people who think differently to me.
Many people don't seem to have their own views. They have to resort to other people's.
Good news on the legal front! Keep plugging away.
opher goodwin Added Aug 7, 2018 - 4:24am
Ken - well there is something greatly wrong because from my experience it wasn't getting through to the classroom. There were no support staff, poor equipment and poor resources. However the office had a mass of secretaries.
I would agree though that there are some major faults. What is required are nationally recognised standards and inspections and a curriculum that is applied across the country. Educationalists are quite clear on how and what to teach. Politicians poking their noses in is always negative.
So what do you think needs doing?
opher goodwin Added Aug 7, 2018 - 4:26am
Wendy - just ignore the brainwashed child. He hasn't got the experience or brain power to participate in a grown-up discussion.
opher goodwin Added Aug 7, 2018 - 4:27am
Jeffrey - yes she talks sense.
opher goodwin Added Aug 7, 2018 - 4:28am
Dave - it seems that right-wingers don't like education. Why is that?
opher goodwin Added Aug 7, 2018 - 4:30am
Stone - do you really think there is censorship?? I don't. When I've been round in Europe I've seen all manner of newspapers in the racks including a range of USA papers. I think it's just the market. Why stock stuff nobody wants?
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2018 - 5:23am
There IS censorship. I can't open torrent pages in Belgium or Germany, some pages are "not available in your country", unless I go trough a proxy somewhere.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2018 - 5:27am
BTW: Of course most foreign newspapers are not available in stores ! What would a German speaking Swiss guy do with a newspaper like L.A. Times written in English ? Wipe his ass in the can LOL
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2018 - 5:31am
BTW2: What we get here is Newsweek, the Guardian, NY Times (at some places), Wall Street Journal, Le Monde, FAZ, the Independent, the Sun, BILD Zeitung, SPIEGEL, Focus, Svenska Dagbladet, etc. etc. But we don't get local stuff like LA Times. That stuff is only available on the net.
Dave Dubya Added Aug 7, 2018 - 9:13am
Dave - it seems that right-wingers don't like education. Why is that?
George Carlin tells us why: From "Life is worth Losing" 

There's a reason that education sucks, and it’s the same reason it will never ever ever be fixed... Because the owners of this country don’t want that. I’m talking about the real owners now, the big, wealthy, business interests that control all things and make the big decisions. 
Politicians are put there to give you that idea that you have freedom of choice. You don’t. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land, they own and control the corporations, and they’ve long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the State Houses, and the City Halls. They’ve got the judges in their back pockets. And they own all the big media companies so they control just about all the news and information you get to hear. 

They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want; they want more for themselves and less for everybody else. But I’ll tell you what they don’t want—they don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. That’s against their interest. You know something, they don’t want people that are smart enough to sit around their kitchen table and figure out how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago. 

They don’t want that, you know what they want? 

They want obedient workers, obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. 
And now they’re coming for your social security money. 

They want your fucking retirement money; they want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you sooner or later because they own this fucking place. It’s a big club and you ain’t in it! 
The table is tilted folks, the game is rigged. 

Nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. Good honest hard working people, white collar, blue collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good honest hard working people continue, these are people of modest means, continue to elect these rich cocksuckers who don’t give a fuck about them.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2018 - 9:35am
Yep. Same starts in Europe. After all it's the same network.
opher goodwin Added Aug 7, 2018 - 10:35am
Stone - well I've never been aware of any censorship. Why would they want to stop the LA Times? It's hardly a rebel force.
opher goodwin Added Aug 7, 2018 - 10:37am
Dave - I would agree with that. They are there for the 1% not the 99%. They want an ignorant population unable to think.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2018 - 11:42am
No idea, really. Is like offing RT LOL
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 7, 2018 - 2:28pm
OG and My Stone Man 
Never mind LA Times and seek out older "Vanity Fair" or "Rolling Stone" articles willing to print authors exhiled by mainstream.
Remember Reagan/Bush or even Nixon had the Trio behind them.
TOO LATE we hear true reports after PR firms sold us WAR on Iraq.
Who woulda tawt they hired a Kuwaiti royal to play role in video
citing Iraqi Army throwing babies from incubators? 
Somebody KNOWS exactly what enrages American Public eh!
Wag the Dog was also a method our OWN used against pacifist America NOT wanting Middle East War...…………………….
until 9/11...……………………...then the Sleeping Giant woke again.
Hate to admit MY mind was sleeping then and personally wanted revenge.
Imagine other countries suffering attacks constantly and being told it is the West!
Seems like a BIG plot hatched to destroy what was once, at least in appearance, the shining light for Democracy.
WHO would do such a terrible thing?
NOT a LONE wolf certainly!
~The Bug~
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 7, 2018 - 2:32pm
And Jurg,
Give some thought to the GREAT Americans being duped along with creating Patriots to defend US and YOU against the Boogey Man first.
What WE know NOW was NOT known then darling and MY son serves USMC still, only changed MOS to intelligence LOL.
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 7, 2018 - 3:03pm
BTW gents,
Here are some of MY go to links which connect FINANCIAL incentives to NOT have sanctions imposed and so they had Trump puppet and added entire Den of profiteers to Cabinet positions. SEE SELF and let me know what you think of all this paleez
#1) VP Pence has brother also VP but of Cummins below: (retired after election)
A new Cummins L-Series engine assembly line has been launched at CUMMINS KAMA Russian-American Joint Venture set up by KAMAZ (part of Rostec State Corporation) and Cummins Inc. in Naberezhnye Chelny.
2) “Last year, on November 16, 2016, Cummings sent a letter to then Vice President-Elect Pence requesting information about all individuals for whom the Transition Team requested security clearance or to whom the Transition Team proposed giving classified information. rel="nofollow">
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 7, 2018 - 3:07pm
rel="attachment wp-att-38192">
May 8th Hearing links:
US Congressman Elijah Cummings had already warned VP Pence about Flynn in November:
Interaction with VP Pence 

”The vice president and others were entitled to know that the information that they were conveying to the American people wasn’t true,” Yates said. “The Russians also knew about what General Flynn had done, and the Russians also knew that General Flynn had misled the vice president.”
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 7, 2018 - 3:15pm
This scheme may well be Jeff Sessions’ Russia tie. 
Bellefonte proposal calls for U.S. deal with Russia, nuclear plants in Middle East Posted on October 25, 2016 rel="nofollow">
In addition, Cummings and Engel raised new questions about whether Flynn secretly used his position inside the White House as National Security Advisor to continue working on this nuclear deal with Russia and Saudi Arabia, without disclosing his previous trip and foreign contacts.
Press Conference on Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn
Documents on Flynn Payment Sources and Amounts
Cummings Requests Documents Relating to Michael Flynn’s Apparent Conflicts of Interest rel="nofollow">
Administration, Former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn
115th Congress

a state corporation is wholly owned by the Russian Federation directly,…” 
Cummings and Engel sent a second letter to Thomas J. Barrack, Jr., who reportedly had a “series of conversations” with General Flynn, Senior Adviser to the President Jared Kushner, and others about the nuclear project proposal.  It has also been reported [6] that Barrack met with General Flynn’s former business colleagues on this proposal at the White House in April 2017, and he has publicly advocated for President Trump to embrace a Middle East “Marshall Plan”—a term that General Flynn’s business associates use to characterize their proposal.
NEED more?
~The Bug~ at your research service (not a writer at all)
Stone-Eater Added Aug 7, 2018 - 3:20pm
True - your soldiers were (and still are?) brainwashed to fight for "a good cause" and once returned with PTSD start to see clear. Not that the criminals on top would care...
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 7, 2018 - 3:41pm
Africa is NOT our doing either (guaranteed cuz we simply missed that boat)
BUT do not tell me Mercenaries are being hired by Regime leaders selling those fine Resources for own pockets,
Bad guy Erik Prince seems to have lost a converted crop duster to the jungle lol, was NOT sanctioned by US Government which is why he went to Dubai and NOW China employs his LLC, one of many. Even his American partner jumped ship when GOV caught wind,
LOTS of profiteers NOT approved by America but perhaps made in America. WE despise hum also BUT Trump hired entire family a.k.a. sister Devos of Spectrum family.
My son wont speak about such things, wink wink
Brainwashed by upper command maybe HA!
opher goodwin Added Aug 8, 2018 - 5:31am
Wendy/Stone - the propaganda has always been at work. In the 60s we were up in arms about the Vietnam and Cambodia travesties. The youth were awake. They knew they were being duped. But then everyone was asleep again when it came to Iraq and Afghanistan.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 8, 2018 - 4:23pm
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Aug 8, 2018 - 4:49pm
Which Cambodia travesties? There were a bunch. 
opher goodwin Added Aug 9, 2018 - 12:36pm
rycK - the wars in Vietnam and Cambodia. They were illegal and an abomination. Interfering in other countries' choice of government is a travesty.
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 9, 2018 - 3:00pm
WORSE than that was North Vietnam COULD have been a combination because lead wanted audience with FDR to discus Democracy and how to attain BUT was ignored due to French influence, etc.
After reading about MESS created simply by ignoring a would be leader resulted in his seeking Russian audience which certainly helped soo many people become ONE with NO war huh?
Interfering is ONE call BUT ignoring request for inference was ALSO a call NEVER given SECOND thought.
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 9, 2018 - 3:06pm
You never answered OG's question about buying the Jewish conspiracy theory and seems you never answer that!
("opher goodwin Added Aug 6, 2018 - 6:43am

Stone - are you supporting this crazy Jewish conspiracy theory?")
Not judging SEF, really wanna know.
~The Bug~
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Aug 9, 2018 - 5:35pm
"rycK - the wars in Vietnam and Cambodia. They were illegal and an abomination. Interfering in other countries' choice of government is a travesty."
How about the UK wars in the colonies, India, China, the Carribean, Ireland and more??  Were they illegal and an abomination.
Maybe Israel's responses to Gaza are also 'illegal?.
How was Venezuela's choice of government? A travesty??
Such twisted logic 
Stone-Eater Added Aug 10, 2018 - 11:01am
Stone - are you supporting this crazy Jewish conspiracy theory?")
There's some funny coincidences...Rotschild, the richest family in the world owning central banks, and a lot of deciders and influential people in the US (politics and economy, AIPAC.....the role of the US towards Israel) have Jewish names....given that the overall Jewish population in the US is very small. It smells of network, though.
Tribalism of the rich and wealthy...
I don't say I believe that uncritically. But there ARE points to consider.
opher goodwin Added Aug 10, 2018 - 7:53pm
rycK - a number of the wars fought by the British were entirely wrong. I don't think any right-minded person would support things like the opium wars with China. There were a number of abominations.
No twisted logic.
The Venezuela elections were free and democratic as far as I know.
I am critical of my country when it performs immorally. That's the difference.
opher goodwin Added Aug 10, 2018 - 7:53pm
Stone - I don't see a Jewish conspiracy; I see a wealthy people's conspiracy.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Aug 11, 2018 - 11:51am
"The Venezuela elections were free and democratic as far as I know.
I am critical of my country when it performs immorally. That's the difference."
How free are the million who fled the country? No food, etc. 
Hitler was elected in a free and democratic election and so was Stalin , Brezhnev, Kim and Hussein in Iraq and Quadaffy in Libya.
How did those turn out? Democracy in action!
MEFOBILLS Added Aug 11, 2018 - 12:13pm
How did those turn out? Democracy in action!
LoL,  Democracy does suck.  Why?  Universal Suffrage.
Some people should not vote.  There has to be intelligence and understanding behind the vote, otherwise the population can be led around by "big lies" and promises never delivered.  Simple minded single issue voters cannot understand the totality of threats, and are unqualified to vote.
To those of you who think democracy is the end all and be all - I present to you the behavior of today's west, especially as it goes around the world looking for people to kill in war.
What does history teach us?  Hungary had a constitutional kingdom that lasted for almost 1000 years.  The King was elected and was constitutionally bound.  The government was bi-cameral, the upper house appointed by the King and the Lower House elected. 
If the King was too far out of alignment with the public, (meaning lower and upper houses didn't get along) there had to be a re-election, and the public would be upset with their king.   
This voting scheme was not UNIVERSAL SUFFRAGE.  Women didn't vote, and the population was mostly homogenous (after Jew and Muslim removal) so there were no racial in-groups vying for control.  
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Aug 11, 2018 - 12:53pm
"LoL,  Democracy does suck.  Why?  Universal Suffrage.
Some people should not vote.  There has to be intelligence and understanding behind the vote, otherwise the population can be led around by "big lies" and promises never delivered.  Simple minded single issue voters cannot understand the totality of threats, and are unqualified to vote."
 Precisely the views of our Founding Fathers.
There was never any attempt at the federal level to prevent states from selecting who should vote. The history of democracy since 500 BCE is horrible. 
I offer the following qualifications for a person to vote:
The number of votes cast by one person should be more than 1.0 when the federal and state income taxes and property tax totals divided by 10 and rounded to the nearest integer. Therefore you do not vote if  you total tax bill is less than $10,000 [or 0.99] or less.
Also we need voter ID  with pics for face recognition and matched with SS numbers on a national register so illegals or others cannot vote at all. 
MEFOBILLS Added Aug 11, 2018 - 1:32pm
Voting yourself (or your in-group) access to the public treasury is precisely an intent of population replacement.  To do this requires universal suffrage, and especially giving non-citizens the right to vote.
To those of you who think it is preposterous to give non-citizens voting rights, there are already movements afoot to do so.  The plaintive cries of non-citizen advocates (usually white women or soy boy cucks) goes something like this:  "They live here so they should vote."  This is Stupid people advocating for their own dispossession, and access to their living spaces.  These acts are already known to screw the future, yet these stupid people persist, to then get their virtue signaling kicks.  Maybe the girrrrls will give the soy boy's some action if they cuck hard enough?
Democracy is a terrible form of government.  It only works with conditionals, and those conditions have since been abrogated.  The U.S. was to be a republic, and it morphed into a democracy in 1912 with Woodrow Wilson's progressive era reforms. 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Aug 11, 2018 - 4:27pm
"The U.S. was to be a republic, and it morphed into a democracy in 1912 with Woodrow Wilson's progressive era reforms. "
We can always change back. Just pass new amendments. 
Wilson was a loser. 
Thomas Sutrina Added Aug 11, 2018 - 4:44pm
Mebills, the 17th amendment ended Federalism, and now have a representative based democracy not a direct democracy. 
Wonder why the likelihood of a convention of state representative gather to draft amendments to the Constitution is more likely then any time in the history of the nation.  The prostitution of the state by Congress and the Executive department is it.   Federal mandates and without funds to pay for them is prostitution of the states.
Even Democratic controlled states like Illinois are chaffing at the bit put in their mouth.  The word from the people working on state representatives about a bill that sends delegates to such a convention is that they are getting equal interest from either party.   
Well said JFK Democrat.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Aug 12, 2018 - 1:31pm
Thomas Sutrina
The direct democracy of Athens failed mostly due to demagoguery, strong special interest groups and ostracism as in Alcibiades and others and "it is believed that only small numbers of citizens attended the Assembly."--Democracy and Its Critics by Robert A. Dahl, 1991, p22.
Whatever happened in Athens does not compare to direct democracy or even fair representative democracy.
And it does not work very well for the US. 
MEFOBILLS Added Aug 12, 2018 - 2:59pm
The 17'th amendment means that Senators are directly elected by their population, hence it is democracy.  Prior to 17'th Senators were sent by their state legislatures.  This means the legislatures were the "point of power" for Senators, and further said legislatures could recall their Senators.  
Populism via direct democracy means that money power controls votes.  Senators have to prostitute themselves for votes, and hence the money power takes control.  
Woodrow Wilson was astonished at the amount of lobbyist activity increase in the White House.  Prior to progressive era reforms, the halls were empty, afterwards, they were crawling with lobbyists.  I checked the Congressional Record.
It is clear, that the money powers wanted progressive era reforms, to then introduce democracy.  Why?  Precisely because it is an easily manipulated form of government.
The founders never wanted mob mentality, or passions of the day to overrule long term statesmanship.
MEFOBILLS Added Aug 12, 2018 - 3:02pm
Wilson was easily the worst president.  He knew he had destroyed the country.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Aug 12, 2018 - 4:21pm
" I checked the Congressional Record."
There is a problem with this 'record.' 
If some politico makes a speech in Congress the actual words used in the address may be changed later by the author. Many mangled speeches were re-written with new material and salient parts omitted. The CR is NOT an accurate account of the proceedings of Congress. 
CR is a joke.
"Wilson was easily the worst president.  He knew he had destroyed the country."
The worst if we neglect Obama and Carter. 
MEFOBILLS Added Aug 12, 2018 - 5:31pm
I did not know that.  It is diabolical.  History is then rewritten.
I suspect Wilson's lamentation about the lobbyist activity was not controversial at the time, so it is probably true.
Bill Clinton was among the worst too, Telecommunication Act consolidated media into the Pravda we have today, ignited housing bubble, made democratic party into wall street dupes, started war in Yugoslavia which set all kinds of negative precedents, gave China MFN status while screwing over Mexico, moved Nato to Russia's doorstep, Mexinvasion accelerated, etc 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Aug 13, 2018 - 11:33am
I did not know that.  It is diabolical.  History is then rewritten."

Correct, an outlet for blabbering politicos. TV ruins this now.
For Billy the Bimbo Banger add NAFTA.
All of these leftist slugs wanted to do much more than just  tear down the US; they wanted to limit the US growth and give concessions to our enemies, most of them friends of the far left. Obama made this clear in his visits to Europe his first year.
Wilson was a megalomaniac who wanted to implement, without resistance, his phony 14 point self determination. The English played him like a cheap kazoo and steered him into demanding a compartmentalization of Europe to his satisfaction as they wanted.
Wilson came back  to the US with a proud mandate to rule Turkey, of all things, and Congress laughed so hard that he had a stroke from his rage and the left side of his face froze, so pics were taken of his other side. 
Then his mind went kaput and his wife gave instructions to the government, supposedly from Woodrow, in a similar form as did  Mrs Roosevelt when her hubby lost  his marbles.
Carter did decimate the CIA,  using Adm. Stansfield Turner,  but that let loose independent operators with experience and contacts and they peddled arms and  information to third world dictators for good money. Several dozen went rogue. 
We rarely had a good leader. Ike was a moron and Nixon was a crook. 
Katharine Otto Added Aug 13, 2018 - 4:34pm
Thanks for the history lesson.  I've read several biographies of Woodrow Wilson and agree with you.  He was also played by JP Morgan and the bankers to get us the income tax and the Fed.  Also, I've read that the lobbyists started lining up when the income tax was being discussed under Teddy Roosevelt and Taft, with the amendment being pushed through by Senator Nelson Aldrich starting in 1909.   The moneyed got Teddy to run again to split the Republican vote, so Wilson would get elected, and through the Fed get the US to back JP Morgan's pre-WWI investors in Europe.
I have this idea of a government in which people don't vote for people but vote directly on the budget, as in percentages for different functions.   I still think the US is simply too big to be managed well, but probably won't get much agreement from people who still think we should be "united."  
MEFOBILLS Added Aug 13, 2018 - 5:22pm
The percentage idea is very interesting.  It introduces the idea that there isn't a free lunch, and compromises have to be made.
Thomas Sutrina Added Aug 14, 2018 - 8:36am
Mefobills, thank you, you presented what federalism is, "Prior to 17'th Senators were sent by their state legislatures.  This means the legislatures were the "point of power" for Senators, and further said legislatures could recall their Senators."  Federation of once independent colonies is Federalism. 
In America Indians formed a Federation as did the Romans, "The Magna Carta, negotiated in Europe in 1215, and the Constitution of the Iroquois Confederacy, negotiated in North America at about the same time, are both foundation documents for the United States Constitution. ...  (This is the symbolism the chief that put together the Iroquois Confederacy),  To help the people understand the impact of unification, The Peacemaker held up one arrow, which he easily broke. Then he held up a bundle of five arrows, one for each nation, and demonstrated that, together, they were too strong to break." ref:
Now does this remind you of the ax  in the middle of sticks for the Roman Republic.  
RFK Democrat, Athens pure democracy government you described and the experience of representative based democracy is why the founders didn't want a pure democracy.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Aug 14, 2018 - 9:46am
Thomas Sutrina
"RFK Democrat, Athens pure democracy government you described and the experience of representative based democracy is why the founders didn't want a pure democracy."
Exactly given the power of demagoguery. 
The Roman Assembly has several voter levels based on  net worth or yearly income, which gave 80% of  the power to the top two flights or the  patricians, elites, equites and rich. And, any Tribune could come in and veto any bill from being voted upon. And at least 3 Tribunes blocked the nomination of Sulla for consul precipitating the civil war 
"At the beginning of the Social War, the Roman aristocracy and Senate began fearing Marius' ambition, which had already given him six consulships from 104 BC to 100 BC. They felt determined that he should not have overall command of the war in Italy. In this last rebellion of the Italian allies, Sulla [Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix]
served with brilliance as a general. He outshone both Marius and the consul Gnaeus Pompeius Strabo (the father of Pompey Magnus). "--
He marched his army into Rome and disbanded  the Senate. He is the only general to capture both Rome and Athens. 
The notion of a pure democracy is a joke. 
opher goodwin Added Aug 18, 2018 - 7:46am
rycK - well there is a case to be made for the restriction of suffrage. Democracy has brought us Trump and Brexit. That demonstrates to me that an ignorant and poorly educated populace should not all be given the vote.