Celebration of the One Year Anniversary of the Charlottesville March for Civil Rights with Update on the Charlottesville Car Murder Trial of the Century

Those of you who know me understand that I do not support the White Nationalists or Supremacists or any other name these Aryan Nation Nazis wish to use for a banner.  That would be very far from the truth.  I consider them to be Nazis.  I consider James Alex Fields Jr. to be a White Supremacist American Nazi.

 

So it is fitting as the American Nazis plan their legal desecration of the sacred National Mall in our nation’s capital that the U.S. District Court For the Western District of Virginia, Charlottesville Division unveil the charges against James Alex Fields Jr.  You know, the infamous car murderer with his big heavy Dodge Challenger.  Apparently besides killing an innocent person by the name of Heather Heyer, his vehicle struck no less than twenty-eight other people in his rage-filled flight for his own safety.  /sarc

 

It has been recently uncovered that crude attempts by presumably Russian hackers have already attempted to foment violence on both sides.  That’s right.  They have attempted to infiltrate groups that are planning counter protests.  This gave me some pause.  Could it be that the counter protestors last summer really were violent offenders as some on the right edge of the WB have asserted?

 

No.  Not really.  But I had to wonder, did the Russians aggravate and whip up hatred and frenzy on both sides?  Remember that the counter protestors are the good guys; the good people of Charlottesville who came out to defend their city and their precious black population.  This year will be quite different.  People from across our fair land will travel to Washington D.C. either to play it out with the racist White Nazi Jew Haters or to express their righteous anger and indignation at this disgusting outrage and affront to our very society and our peoples.  It could get ugly.  I trust that the Washington D.C. Police Department will be out in force.  It should be easy to control the march on the National Mall.  Violence and clashes are much more likely in the trains and dark corners and byways of the city.  Yet D.C. transportation has decided that it will not provide special trains for the Nazis even though it did so for BLM and other groups.  Since 78% of the labor union are people of color, they felt no special need to go out of their way to accommodate the Nazis. 

 

Since Fields killed one and attempted to kill 28 on August 12, 2017, I can assume that the Nazi rally will take place this weekend of August 10-12, 2018.  Get ready to get your stories straight, RW crazies.  Look to your leaders Trump and Limbaugh for what you should believe.  Let us all pray for peace, love and understanding.  Or at the least, pray for a minimum of violence, injuries and loss of life.

 

So the good person on the Nazi side, James Alex Fields Jr., will face federal hate crime charges.  They were filed June 27, 2018.  The trial is set for shortly after Thanksgiving.  Enjoy Turkey Day with Mom and Dad, James.

 

My further comments will be bolded.

 

Here is a .pdf of the eight page indictment:

 

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4563800/James-Alex-Fields-Jr-Federal-Indictment.pdf

 

Let me just explain what I understand about the charges, possible sentencing and transcribe a verbal account of the defendant’s actions on that fateful day.

 

The only counts that the defendant is charged with are murder and attempted murder.  However, all of these charges are in violation of extremely important civil rights statutes.  Thus they will be treated as hate crimes.  I know that some on the right oppose the very idea of hate crimes.  Tough luck.

 

18 U.S. Code § 245 - Federally protected activities

 

The counter protestors were involved in a federally protected activity.     245(b)(2)(B)

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/245

 

(b) Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, by force or threat of force willfully injures, intimidates or interferes with, or attempts to injure, intimidate or interfere with—

 

(1) any person because he is or has been, or in order to intimidate such person or any other person or any class of persons from—(skip) participating in or enjoying any benefit, service, privilege, program, facility or activity provided or administered by any State or subdivision thereof;

 

…shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.

 

Get that?  Death sentence is a possibility.

 

18 U.S. Code § 249 - Hate crime acts    249(a)(1)

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/249

 

(1)Offenses involving actual or perceived race, color, religion, or national origin.—Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, a dangerous weapon, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, or national origin of any person—

(A) shall be imprisoned not more than 10 years, fined in accordance with this title, or both; and

(B) shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life, fined in accordance with this title, or both, if—

(i) death results from the offense; or

(ii) the offense includes kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill.

 

An attempt to kill…  Fields is charged with very serious crimes.

 

18 U.S. Code § 3591 - Sentence of death

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/3591

 

(a) A defendant who has been found guilty of—

(1) an offense described in section 794 or section 2381; or

(2) any other offense for which a sentence of death is provided, if the defendant, as determined beyond a reasonable doubt at the hearing under section 3593—

(A) intentionally killed the victim;

(B) intentionally inflicted serious bodily injury that resulted in the death of the victim;

(C) intentionally participated in an act, contemplating that the life of a person would be taken or intending that lethal force would be used in connection with a person, other than one of the participants in the offense, and the victim died as a direct result of the act; or

(D) intentionally and specifically engaged in an act of violence, knowing that the act created a grave risk of death to a person, other than one of the participants in the offense, such that participation in the act constituted a reckless disregard for human life and the victim died as a direct result of the act,

shall be sentenced to death if, after consideration of the factors set forth in section 3592 in the course of a hearing held pursuant to section 3593, it is determined that imposition of a sentence of death is justified, except that no person may be sentenced to death who was less than 18 years of age at the time of the offense.

 

18 U.S. Code § 3592 - Mitigating and aggravating factors to be considered in determining whether a sentence of death is justified

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/3592

 

The use of this statute is not specified.  I will theorize that it has to do with an attempted multiple killing.

 

(16)Multiple killings or attempted killings.—

The defendant intentionally killed or attempted to kill more than one person in a single criminal episode.

The jury, or if there is no jury, the court, may consider whether any other aggravating factor for which notice has been given exists.

 

So the first count is murder with the special circumstances of it being a hate crime.  The next twenty-eight counts are attempted murder.  Each intended victim is listed by their initials.  The thirtieth count is from section 245, (Bias-Motivated Interference with Federally Protected Activity Resulting in  Death.) 

 

Here is the real meat of the case.  Herewith a verbal complaint against Fields which details his actions as understood by the people of the U.S.A.

 

On or about August 12, 2017, in Charlottesville, Virginia, within the Western District of Virginia, Defendant, JAMES ALEX FIELDS JR. by force and threat of force, willfully injured, intimidated, and interfered with, and attempted to injure, intimidate and interfere with, individuals in a crowd gathered at and near the intersection of Fourth and Water Streets in Charlottesville, Virginia, because of their race, color, religion, and national origin, and because they were and had been participating in and enjoying a benefit, service, privilege, program, facility, and activity provided and administered by a State or subdivision thereof to wit, the public streets and sidewalks of Charlotesville, Virginia, resulting in the death of Heather Heyer.  (skip)

 

intentionally killed Heather Heyer…

 

intentionally participated in an act, contemplating that the life of a person would be taken and intending that lethal force would be used in connection with a person, other than one of the participants in the offense, and Heather Heyer dies as a direct result of such act…

 

In committing the offense charged in Count Thirty, knowingly created a grave risk of death to one or more persons in addition to Heather Heyer…

 

In committing the offense charged in Count Thirty, intentionally killed and attempted to kill more than one person in a single criminal episode.

 

From the first few pages of the indictment:

 

Prior to August 12, 2017, Defendant JAMES ALEX FIELDS JR. obtained multiple social media accounts,l which he used to express his beliefs regarding race, national origin, religion and other topics.  On these accounts, FIELDS expressed and promoted his belief that white people are superior to other races and peoples; expressed support of the social and racial policies of Adolf Hitler and Nazi-era Germany, including the Holocaust, and espoused violence against African Americans, Jewish people and members of other racial, ethnic and religious groups he perceived to be non-white…

 

On August 11, 2017, as Defendant JAMES ALEX FIELDS JR. prepared to leave his home in Maumee Ohio, to travel to Charlottesville, Virginia, a family member sent him a text message urging him to be careful.  FIELDS replied to the text message that, “We’re not the ones who need to be careful.”  To the message, FIELDS attached an image of Adolf Hitler…

 

On the morning of August 12, 2017, Defendant JAMES ALEX FIELDS JR. arrived in and around the immediate vicinity of Emancipation Park in Charlottesville, Virginia, to attend the Unite the Right rally.  Multiple groups and individuals espousing white supremacist and other anti-Semitic and racist views also attended the rally.  That morning, these rally participants, including FIELDS, engaged in chants promoting or expressing white supremacist and other racist and anti-Semitic views…

 

On August 12, 2017, shortly before the scheduled start of the Unite the Right rally, law enforcement declared an, “unlawful assembly,” and required rally participants, including Defendant JAMES ALEX FIELDS JR., to disperse.  FIELDS later returned to his vehicle and began to drive on the streets of Charlottesville, Virginia…

 

On August 12, 2017, Defendant JAMES ALEX FIELDS JR. drove his car onto Fourth Street, a narrow, downhill, one-way street in downtown Charlottesville.  At or around that same time, a racially and ethnically diverse crowd of individuals had gathered at the bottom of the hill, at the intersection of Fourth and East Water Streets.  Many of the individuals in the crowd were chanting and carrying signs promoting equality and protesting against racial and other forms of discrimination.  FIELDS slowly proceeded in his vehicle toward the crowd and stopped and observed the crowd while idling in his vehicle.  With no vehicle behind him, FIELDS then slowly reversed his vehicle back toward the top of the hill, near the intersection of Fourth and East Market Streets…

 

At or around that same time, the members of the crowd began to walk up Fourth Street toward Market Street, populating the streets and sidewalks between the buildings on Fourth Street…

 

At or near the top of the hill and the intersection of Fourth and Market Streets, Defendant JAMES ALEX FIELDS JR. stopped his vehicle.  FIELDS rapidly accelerated, through a stop sign and across a raised pedestrian mall, and drove directly into the crowd.  FIELDS’s vehicle stopped only when it struck another vehicle near the intersection of Fourth and Water Streets.  FIELDS then rapidly reversed his car and fled the scene.  As FIELDS drove into and through the crowd, FIELDS struck numerous individuals, killing Heather Heyer and injuring many others.

 

What say you my mild and Trumpy WB compatriots?  Surely there is some sympathy for the American Nazi?  Good people on both sides!  Remember this is a Federal Court in Virginia.  This ain’t San Francisco or Los Angeles.  Pray for peace brothers and sisters.  Pray for reconciliation.  Let the hatred end now.

Comments

Jeffry Gilbert Added Aug 6, 2018 - 2:42am
The intolerance of the left for intolerance has always amused me. 
Flying Junior Added Aug 6, 2018 - 3:19am
That's a fun play on words.  I appreciate you stopping by.  I guess I shouldn't take it to heart.  Surely you do not tolerate racial hatred and violence.  Yeah, I get it.  I'm a bigot.  I hate Nazis.
 
I played this one straight from my vest pocket.  I knew that I was holding the winning hand.  The Nazi sympathizers have nothing except exaggerated claims of violence from the left.  The car murderer has had his come-uppance.  His time is come.  Now it is up to the RW crazies to mount a defense or he will very likely be locked up for several decades.  I can't help but wonder what will be the response from the right once they finally wake up and realize that this is no dream.  George Zimmerman was a slam-dunk for the opposition.  This problem may not go away quite as easily.
 
I am praying for our nation's capital.  I don't want anyone to die from this foolishness.
Flying Junior Added Aug 6, 2018 - 3:23am
Jeff Sessions has something to say...
 
“Last summer’s violence in Charlottesville cut short a promising young life and shocked the nation,” U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions said in a statement. “Today’s indictment should send a clear message to every would-be criminal in America that we aggressively prosecute violent crimes of hate that threaten the core principles of our nation.”
 
Nice!
Jeffry Gilbert Added Aug 6, 2018 - 3:43am
That's a fun play on words. 
 
I got it from the dyke that jumped up on the hood of a news car in front of Seattle's Channel 7 with a bullhorn and in utter seriousness bellowed into it that by golly "we're not going to tolerate that kind of intolerance in our community"
 
I burst out laughing. She appeared to consider whether hitting me was productive. 
 
 
I appreciate you stopping by.
 
I know you do FJ. Its my pleasure. 
opher goodwin Added Aug 6, 2018 - 6:52am
FJ - with hate crime on the increase and fascists marching on the streets it is up to every one of us to oppose their racist, hateful acts.
I am totally intolerant of hate and intolerance. 
That is not some tautology as Jeffry would suggest but a stance against things that are morally repugnant.
I keep hearing on this site that I stand for hatred of America but I do not. I stand opposed to the corruption and evil I see going on in America. Hatred and division are being deployed as weapons. That needs us all to speak out.
Neo-Nazis and Fascists are morally repugnant. Any right-thinking person should be totally opposed to their agenda.
Thomas Sutrina Added Aug 6, 2018 - 8:15am
Portland police arrested a few Antifia protesters saying the guns were at the protest and other destruction occurred.  Antifia was also in Charlottesville.  I remember that the registered protesters were funneled by police orders to exist where there opponents, Antifia, gathered.  This caused the confrontation.  Further Antifia didn't have a march permit and insufficient police were on hand.  The tended to let Antifia get away with more brutality.  That is what I got from Charlottesville. 
opher goodwin Added Aug 6, 2018 - 11:54am
Thomas - fascism needs confronting where-ever it is. That should be done vehemently but within the law and without violence. There's always a few nutters.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Aug 6, 2018 - 2:12pm
I thought there were good people on both sides.....
Sarcasm Alert
 
I find the Antifa loathsome, albeit a few notches below the repugnant Nazis.
Dino Manalis Added Aug 6, 2018 - 2:30pm
 Charlottesville represented brutality and violence, which law enforcement shouldn't have allowed to take place.  We can do much better as a society.
Thomas Sutrina Added Aug 6, 2018 - 2:44pm
Opher this was not a few nuts.  I include in your nuts the Democratic Mayor of the city and the police chief that went along with creating a funnel that anyone would know would result in the violence.  The police didn't break up the fighting, yep the nutty Mayor and police chief get that one too.  Every injury is on their heads.
Flying Junior Added Aug 6, 2018 - 2:54pm
Thomas,
 
I believe that there is a small faction which self-describes as Antifa and organizes violent counter protestors.  But I do not believe that all counter protestors are agents of Antifa.  Most are just ordinary people who oppose alt-right, racists fascists.  It sounds like the Portland Police were up to the task of keeping the peace.  It was a good call not to have visible guns at the site of the protests.
 
I hope the D.C. Police can tamp down any conflict.
Flying Junior Added Aug 6, 2018 - 3:01pm
My understanding is that the extreme right groups had the same Nazi paraphernalia and white supremacist or fascist ideas as other extreme right groups did in the South at the first Unite the Right rally.
 
Why is it so difficult for the right to accept that by holding these rallies, it is the American Nazis who are the aggressors and provocateurs?  But thanks for screaming, "Antifa!"  It was actually a group including social democrats, clergy and community.
 
Yes Opher.  Of course these groups need to be confronted.  Thank the Goddess they are only able to successfully organize in a few small areas of the country.
 
Dino,
 
I agree with you.  With proper policing nobody needs to get hurt.  Let the little boys shout their chants of hatred against Jews and people of color.  Let them play at being real German Nazis.  But no guns or weapons should be allowed.  It seemed like just about everybody had a club in Charlottesville.
Flying Junior Added Aug 6, 2018 - 3:03pm
Where is the calm and glorious Mustafa?  Inscrutable as the ancient Sphinx.  Wise as the Buddha.  And quiet as the pyramids.
 
It is difficult to swallow your pride.  No one likes to admit they made a mistake.
Bill H. Added Aug 6, 2018 - 3:32pm
 
There is no justifying a President who's mission is to create and fuel hate and division.
It seems many Trump supporters find all of this chaos "cool", and entertaining, but IMHO is shows who the real traitors are in our country.
Take a look at these Trump supporters.
I'm guessing Putin is smiling from ear to ear!
"Das ees great job, Donald!!"
 
Flying Junior Added Aug 6, 2018 - 3:48pm
That's nuts.  Of course I only included the relatively subtle reference about good people on both sides in my article because I didn't want to make this about Trump.  Of course he is fomenting and enabling these extreme RW racist rallies.  It will be interesting to see if he can stay away from the Unite the Right March this weekend.  Yet the fact remains that he had every chance to distance himself from the KKK, the Tiki Torch Nazis and every other White Nationalist group yet he never once said a word against them.
 
So what is up with the whole From Russia with Love thing?  Every day it seems like another post goes up on the WB saying how we narrowly averted nuclear war with Russia  by electing Trump.  They laugh and say the democrats are worried that,"Peace may break out," as if we were already at war with Russia?  The WB Russia lovers all hate Pussy Riot and say they got what they deserved for desecrating a church.  They don't believe any of the accounts of political assassinations by Putin.  They link to stories on RTV like it holds the key to understanding.  It started with Jennifer the Priestess.  I think she may still be sending us trolls.
 
 
Bill H. Added Aug 6, 2018 - 5:13pm
Jennifer certainly did have some conflicting views that didn't seem to add up at times. I had thought several times that she may have been a Russian troll, as she seemed to disappear sometime shortly after the election. I did enjoy sparring with her, and she laid out some pretty interesting reading.
Thomas Sutrina Added Aug 6, 2018 - 8:17pm
Antifa is violent in Berkeley today.  The government in Berkeley that let them prevent free speech stopping multiple conservative speakers and the university that promoted free speech a few decades ago.  They didn't need Nazis to be violent.   Anarchist on the left, (say they are not anarchist but their actions and word say differently) are no better then on the right. 
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 6, 2018 - 9:04pm
FJ, 
re:Where is the calm and glorious Mustafa?'
Please, you are too kind, you make me blush.
 
Im here -----trying to figure out what you are actually trying to say. Given that I cant, I certainly dont know how to contribute. 
 
As for 
"No one likes to admit they made a mistake."
Well, thats not really correct.  I have alot of experience in that matter.
 
As for 
"It is difficult to swallow your pride."
 
Ryan accuses me of the sin of pride alot.  I try not to practice it.
 
However,  I do admit I did feel that you held a special place for me  in your heart when your wrote this article. Maybe you can remind me about that date we have with truth we had. 
 
I still dont get it. 
 
Mustafa
 
 
 
 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Aug 6, 2018 - 10:18pm
@Flying Junior:
Many of the conservatives and rightists got over their fears of Russia when Putin shed his Communist stripes and became a bastion for right-wing values.  I don’t particularly understand the affection for an ex-KGB major?  Is that right?  But I don’t give the right much credit for consistency.
Spartacus Added Aug 7, 2018 - 12:03am
 I consider them to be Nazis.  I consider James Alex Fields Jr. to be a White Supremacist American Nazi.
 
You have Nazi-itis.  Completely fucked up beyond all reason.
Because the moronic left has misused the term "Nazi", you morons have now devolved the meaning of that word to mean absolutely nothing.
Flying Junior Added Aug 7, 2018 - 12:16am
I don't blame you for not reading my lengthy excerpts from the June indictment.  But Fields is accused of espousing Nazi beliefs and even praising Nazi Germany and the Holocaust.  This is included as evidence for the four Federal title 18 Statutes which will be cited in prosecuting the crimes as hate crimes.  There is plentiful evidence of his pro-Nazi Germany views in his social media treasure trove for the prosecution.
 
I had forgotten this, but a friend reminded me recently.  Fields went of a field trip with his high school class to Dachau.  Of course this is nothing more than an anecdote.
 
James Fields has been seriously messed up since childhood. He was a Hitler fan in high school. His class visited Dachau concentration camp on a school trip. He told his classmates, “This is where the magic happened.”
 
If you object to calling these types of fellows Nazis, you have that right.  I was right with you fighting this trend in 2016.  But things that I have seen since that time have changed my mind.  The American Nazi movement is alive and well.
Flying Junior Added Aug 7, 2018 - 12:17am
Spartacus Added Aug 7, 2018 - 12:36am
I don't blame you for not reading my lengthy excerpts from the June indictment.
 
The only reason you keep bringing up Nazis is to create an enemy, in your mind, that is worthy of death.  You want war.  You want to kill anyone who does not agree with you.  This is the reason you call people Nazis.  To dehumanize and label your political foes as those which were already condemned and brought to justice 70 years ago.
You fuckers are sick. 
Flying Junior Added Aug 7, 2018 - 2:06am
Mustafa,
 
Here it is.  I don't remember which article or discussion it was.  It must have been in late summer or early autumn last year.  I had just seen an unedited, five-minute video of the James Fields car murder.  I was shocked and horrified as he clearly accelerated into a group of people.  I thought that the video would be easy to find having most likely gone viral, so I suggested that you look for it.
 
I didn't realize that I was lucky to have seen an unedited video from one of the counter protestors.  By the time you and I were looking for it, it was scrubbed.  Not only that, there were several versions of video edited to look as if BLM had unfairly attacked his vehicle first.  I tried to explain to you what I had seen, but my story had no proof.  After days of back and forth, I thought at the least I had convinced you that Fields had intentionally struck counter protestors with his car.
 
You wouldn't say it.  You held firm.  So I figured I would wait until the trial in November to revisit this issue.  But when I saw the damning evidence as well as thirty counts of hate crimes in violation of four Title 18 Federal Statutes, I thought that with the background material and the narrative of the car attack, that you might reconsider your position.
 
Do you at the minimum remember this iconic still photograph showing no less than four victims flying through the air with their feet above their heads.  I can't forget the guy in the red shoes.  He looks like he just did a back flip to score a winning goal.  Shoes and broken glass are everywhere.  A young woman can be seen sheltering under the bumper of a black Toyota Tundra.
 
target="_blank">target="_blank">https://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2017_33/2117991/170812-charlottesville-car-crash-graphic-ew-413p_fb83f513fd30e7adbb65d5ec29eb8e8c.fit-1240w.jpg
 
Pages one and two of the indictment describe Fields' history of Nazi sympathy on social media and his plan to attend the Unite the Right Rally in Emancipation Park, Charlottesville, Virginia.  Page three describes in some detail his actions behind the wheel that fateful day after the police department had declared the rally an unlawful assembly.
 
Of course this is not proof.  I am thinking that the prosecution has every expectation of proving these allegations.  And I'm sure that we will all see the most damning video(s) of the car attack once they have been introduced as evidence in his trial.  I suspect that law enforcement scrubbed the video that I saw quite early on in an attempt to not contaminate potential jurors. 
 
Some will never accept that he was not simply a victim who took a wrong turn in an angry mob.  But once he is sentenced to life in prison, it may become a difficult position to defend.
opher goodwin Added Aug 7, 2018 - 4:46am
William - why this rude and silly response? What is sick about calling a Nazi murderer a Nazi murderer?
Someone who is a white supremacist, who is an avowed follower of Adolf Hitler and Nazi ideology, someone who put his ideology into action by attacking people of colour, someone who deliberately used his car as a weapon to kill.
I do not think it is unreasonable to call such a sick brainwashed fool a Nazi murderer. Why do you think it is?
Perhaps that says something about you?
FacePalm Added Aug 7, 2018 - 5:56am
Flying Junior-
Since every nazi group in America was long-ago infiltrated by USG agents, and since antifa is funded by Soros and is heavily influence by idiot socialists, and since the Charlottesville cops not only stood down but deliberately compelled the "nazi"(actors) into antifa ON PURPOSE, it seems to me like a deliberately-calculated event put on specifically to manipulate public opinion.
 
It seems to me that the murderer-by-auto will be sufficiently punished by the murder and attempted murder charges to be given a life sentence, richly deserved.
 
As you surmised, i don't believe that "hate crimes" would withstand a Constitutional challenge, as the word "hate" can constantly be re-defined to fit the "enemy du jour."  It's a completely subjective standard, and should NEVER be used to create "special circumstances" which would increase a penalty, IMO.  After all, how many life sentences does it matter, if he's given a life sentence?  If he gets THIRTY life-sentences, he can still only serve ONE.  What, his body should be kept in prison for the statistical norm of 30  womens' lifespans as a corpse?
 
“An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.
-- Thomas Paine, Dissertations on First Principles of Government (July 7, 1795)
 
 
 
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 7, 2018 - 8:30am
FJ,
Is this it?
"After days of back and forth, I thought at the least I had convinced you that Fields had intentionally struck counter protestors with his car.
 
You wouldn't say it.  You held firm."
 
and this?
"Some will never accept that he was not simply a victim who took a wrong turn in an angry mob.  ?"
 
As I recall back then, you had a funny, yet not uncommon, way of twisting my words and I had to wrestle with you alot to achieve any clarity.   You also tend to LOAD your statements so that I would not be willing to agree to what you said, how you said it.
 
My impression was as yours.   I watched this event very closely.  I saw those videos before they were scrubbed. I saw what you saw and I think I saw them as you did. We just use language differently. 
 
And unlike you, I was refusing to project his apparent guilt onto the rest of the rightwing protestors. You also didnt like the fact that I thought that the counter protestors had something to do with the violence that day.  
 
Mustafa
Spartacus Added Aug 7, 2018 - 9:57am
"why this rude and silly response? "
. . . and being called a "Nazi" is not rude?  WTF are you smoking, opher?
 
"What is sick about calling a Nazi murderer a Nazi murderer?"
That is NOT what FJ is saying here.  He labeled everyone on one side of that conflict as Nazis.  It is not true.  It is disingenuous.  And it is malicious.  There were very few people at that rally that they themselves claimed to be Nazis.  I can be honest and not label the entire left side of that conflict as communists.  There were hammer and sickle flags flown as well that day.  But I am not dishonest or malicious in labeling everyone on the left as such.  Only a complete malevolent moron will do this.
 
This is why the left is losing.  They want to hate.  They want conflict.  And they want to kill their opponents.  There can be no other explanation.  We on the right have been called every fucking name to dehumanize us -- especially for the last 10 years.  The left, having had the cultural advantage for decades have used these platforms to dehumanize anyone that rejects their political views.  It is no wonder we see some rise in extreme groups on the right who are mortally offended by these labels and mortally afraid of the malicious left if ever they achieved ultimate political power.
 
FJ, a lefty, who has denounced capital punishment writes here and cheers for the capitalized death of a young man, who is obviously very disturbed about modern politics.
You asshats on the left never ask your dumbass selves important questions like, "am I being hypocritical?"
 
FJ wants people to die.  If he had the balls, he would be the kind to also drive a Dodge Challenger into a group of conservatives ("Nazis").
Flying Junior Added Aug 7, 2018 - 5:10pm
FJ wants people to die.  If he had the balls, he would be the kind to also drive a Dodge Challenger into a group of conservatives ("Nazis").
 
Gee Whiz William,
 
I guess I made a bad impression.
 
Have I denounced capital punishment?  I don't recall.  Generally I oppose it but not in absolute terms.  I didn't call for capital punishment in this case.  I guess being a liberal carries a lot of baggage.  I certainly never once accused my conservative opponents on the WB of being Nazis.
 
Sure, not every participant is an American Nazi.  I guess a lot of White Supremacists/Nationalists are just ordinary men.  I'm sure there is an entire spectrum.  But when you spend your free time on-line slamming blacks, Jews and Mexicans, you are only one step away from qualifying.  Once you throw in the big red, white and black flags, the swastikas, the love and admiration for Hitler and the Third Reich; not to mention the praise of Nazi extermination camps...  Hell, we had one nutjob right here on the WB that kept trying to make the case that Jews received humane treatment in Auschwitz.  Ten years ago I wouldn't have even imagined it possible except from the most extreme right-wing haters.
 
What would you call these guys?
 
I say it coincides with the rise of Trump.  The man who refuses to distance himself from the KKK.  The man who lied and said he had no idea who David Duke was.  The man who said, "Good people on both sides."  Hate crimes are up.  Incidence of harassment and persecution of people of color, other religions and sexual orientation are still on the rise from what I have heard.
 
I tried to talk about CAIR here one time.  The Council on American Islamic Relations here.  The xenophobic right quickly condemned them as an activist group.  CAIR wants to teach children how to accept Muslims.  Defensive Christians say that this is favoring one religion over others.  A fine mess we've got ourselves into.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 7, 2018 - 7:10pm
No solution to a "round 'em up and either throw them out or kill 'em" is the best rightist solution.  Willy Stockpot cries about using the term nazi to inflame hatred.  Let's be clear, Willy is not a Nazi.  He's an ERW shill by choice.  Willy makes a lot of claims, but NEVER  has a cite for any of them.  Thanks for bringing up CAIR, Fjr.  CAIR wants to help kids understand Muslims are not all terrorists, unlike the majority of rightist shills.  That sort of thing upsets the rightist narrative.
wsucram15 Added Aug 7, 2018 - 7:44pm
Face Palm..you are wrong. Sorry.  Sure there are less of them or they are less visible but they are there.  I met up with some in a private club they built in a barn, right here in my home state.  I was riding a friends motorcycle and he stopped in there to talk to someone and asked me to hang around and have a drink.  One of my top ten most uncomfortable moments, ever.
All of them were upper class guys...with money. I asked one of the guys why he was of the opinion he was and he just told me he hated blacks, jews, etc.  Same old stuff I have heard from the skinheads, aryans and whatever else they call themselves for years at shows. 
 
Thomas...does Antifa amuse you enough that you follow them on tv?  Dont associate them with liberals or the left.  They are a hate group stirring up trouble just like any other group who wants to make a point for the media.
Ive seen them at work and they are destructive from what I observed.  Hurling trashcans on fire through windows...not into that.
However, I have seen white supremacists do some damage as well. Robbery, rape, murder...to name a few things they are known for. Personally I have just seen hate beatings in which others had to jump in to stop it. 
I admittedly am older now, and dont know as much about Antifa because I dont want any part of that crap. However, when I was younger I fought against white supremacy and still hold those morals today.
 
William..I don't think all people on the right are nazi's and no one I am aware of thinks all Republicans are nazi's, unless they don't know what either one is. But cultural prejudice is out in the open now and promoted by Republicans.   Nazi..is the same now as Ni775r.  Understand?  Its a hate thing... like before just in reverse.
 
It would be incorrect to state ALL people on the left want to hate. That would be an in general thing..people who HATE, want to hate and stir up more hate. 
 
For example, that liberal comment  I would consider prejudicial and to some degree with malice.(" They want to hate.  They want conflict.  And they want to kill their opponents.  There can be no other explanation".), which is what upset you in the first place. ok how do you know what I want or how I feel?  I have tried to reason with you 10 times more often than you have ever tried to reason with me. EVER.
 
I have often found your comments malicious towards the left (as stated above).  I still dont think you are a nazi..or supremacist..or whatever. You do however, like to anger people by attacking them.  You werent like that before.  You are in the same pit as everyone else.
It seems you like to be the antagonist... attacking anyone to defend your thoughts and ideas. Thats fine but you can do that without attacking the ideals of others.  If everyone took just that tiny step on both sides..people like Antifa and White supremacists would not stand a chance.
But this is what we have left the country to....we just handed it to them.
FJ-
I hope they hang this guy from a tree, not because I hate him but because with malice and forethought he killed a girl with a car without any logical  reason or accident-just pure hatred and went on to hit and injure many others.  Then bragged about it with his buddies some of whom justified his actions.
Well written article. It is just sad that anything like this ever has to be put to pen. 
 
Lindsay Wheeler Added Aug 7, 2018 - 8:01pm
All this thread is about is Gaslighting. If the Liberals/Marxists/SJWs weren't tearing down the Confederate memorials, there wouldn't have been a march there. 
 
This paradigm goes around, and around, and around. Liberals/Marxists/SJWs go around attacking, destroying our heritage---then cry when somebody seeks to stop them. That is called Gaslighting. They are gaslighting their victims. Everybody is a NAZI who opposes them, whether they are or not. Doesn't matter. 
wsucram15 Added Aug 7, 2018 - 8:34pm
Lindsay..what does killing a girl with a car have to do with gaslighting?
How is someone trying to control your thought process by making you a victim.
As I said, most people that understand the difference, know what a nazi is and the difference between that and today's white supremacists. 
Flying Junior Added Aug 7, 2018 - 9:06pm
Thanks for the hat tip, wsucram.
 
Facepalm,
 
Of course all of the Nazis from WWII have all been routed out and pretty much died off by now.  I have resisted liberals who attempt to label Trump as a Nazi for three years now.  It's uncanny the similarities though, you have to admit.  The nationalistic and xenophobic fervor at the campaign rallies.  The attempts to shut down the press.  It's the same road, but Trump is always careful not to go too far.  Last summer when all of this broke, I did the tap dance with, White Supremacist, White Nationalist and other euphemisms to try not to hurt anyone's sensibilities.  But let's just take a look at the term White Nationalist.  That means they wish for the U.S. to be a white nation.  I'm sure I could research various groups that are currently monitored by the Southern Poverty Law Center.  That should bring up quite a few instances of celebrating Nazism and the Third Reich.  I would like to know more about these Patriot Prayer guys since they are in California.  I think the term American Nazi is more specific than Neo-Nazi.  They exist across the world.  How about Dylan Roof?  The quiet boy who opened fire on a group of black Christians who were nice enough to invite him to Bible study.  Turns out he had a website called The Last Rhodesian  loaded up with Neo-Nazi fun stuff and Dylan's special field of study, hating on black people.  I would imagine that the KKK is one of the milder groups and does not even self-identify as Nazi.  But to the true hardcore racists I believe that the Third Reich represents something akin to the Holy Grail of White Supremacy.  As far as the guys like Richard Spencer and Milo Y. who love to get these types fired up but accept no responsibility for their actions, I have no idea what their game is.
 
I have also heard this claim that the Charlottesville Police somehow not only stood down but unfairly directed the Unite the Right straight into the awaiting arms (pun) of the Antifa, did you say?  The rally was supposed to take place in Emancipation Park.  If the Unite the Right had not brought so many weapons, it would not have been declared an illegal assembly.  I can imagine the police were nervous if not frightened at being unprepared and outnumbered.  You can bet your horse that will not happen in D.C.
Flying Junior Added Aug 7, 2018 - 9:11pm
Yay Confederate Memorials!  Yay Nathan Bedford Forrest!
 
The South shall rise again.
 
This is all so out-of-control, I can't even get any love for Abraham Lincoln from the extreme right.
Spartacus Added Aug 7, 2018 - 9:40pm
The South shall rise again.
 
Your insolence and patronizing attitude reveal the intent of this article which is only to stoke fires of hate and anger.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Aug 7, 2018 - 10:25pm
“Our heritage” LOL
The heritage of exploitation?  Give me a break.  I could care less about hurting the feelings of some silly people getting all maudlin over the good ol’ days when black people knew their place.
 
It’s waste of energy.  Want to do something constructive?  Have school children visit a Holocaust museum, visit a mosque or synagogue, promote equality instead of hate.  That’s far more constructive than removing the statues of a bunch of traitors to their country.
wsucram15 Added Aug 7, 2018 - 10:49pm
FJ..it will not happen in DC.   They  handle this stuff every day and I believe the extra staff will be up and ready.  
I've been in DC for a lot.  The DC police handle pretty much everything very quickly and since the protest is near the capital the Capital police will be on duty also.   Its also not legal to carry firearms in DC, or any concealed weapon. 
Flying Junior Added Aug 7, 2018 - 11:27pm
Jeffrey and Jeff,
 
I was extremely saddened by the recent case of a young Syrian refugee, a Muslim girl who has been the target of harrassment by her fellows at Greenfield Middle School in El Cajon.  The harrassment has been going on for one and a half years, but recently culminated in a group of students following her home one day hurling insults, shouting and pulling her hair.  There is a call for the Principal of the school to resign for allowing this to go on without any oversight for so long.
 
Normally I hold up San Diego County as a shining example of a population that accepts immigrants and refugees into our shared culture.  I see Muslim families all the time when I go out to shop at Target.  I see the ladies, their children and the occasional mother around town as well.  The men are a little bit more difficult to recognize.  But there is the same sense of shared community.  Iraqi Chaldeans, Sufi, Hindu, Iranian, Arab, people from North Africa.  It doesn't really matter.
 
But in this remote corner of the high desert where Duncan Hunter and Randy "Duke" Cunningham are still beloved soldiers, something quite bad has been allowed to happen.
 
http://www.cbs8.com/story/38788303/group-calls-for-probe-of-bullying-targeting-muslim-student-in-el-cajon
 
CAIR is again calling for education programs for youngsters so that they can learn to accept their fellow citizens as friends and equals.
Flying Junior Added Aug 8, 2018 - 1:14am
O/T
 
Best song by Neil Young.  (Best chord progressions too.)
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u5pEoKwES8
 
Country Girl from the debut album for CSN&Y, Déja Vu.  Key of B-minor.  Best lyric, "If I could stand to see her cryin'"
 
Best 1970 country rock other than Brewer and Shipley?
 
FacePalm Added Aug 8, 2018 - 5:47am
Flying Junior-
That song's "on my list."  i can play/sing a lot of CSNY.  IIRC, that song uses a Tympani in it, too, which makes it impossible for a soloist to do it justice.
 
More on-topic, i think it ridiculous in the extreme to compare Trump to a nazi or Hitler; he's about as far from being "authoritarian" as it's possible to me, imo - and if he wasn't, there'd be an awful lot of people dead or in jail, by now.  If THAT was happening, i'd certainly agree that he was both an authoritarian AND like Hitler - but it ain't.
 
OTOH, take a look at the repeated authoritarianism of those on the left, particularly the silicon valley tech giants, what with their clear bias in banning the free speech rights of everyone NOT on-board with leftist/socialist ideologies.  They claim the bans are(most often) for "hate speech," yet allow thousands of leftists to call for Trump's assassination w/o consequence, or the hashtag #huntrepublicans, as but one of many examples of their clear hypocrisy.  Then, there's their propagandists in the MSM to help them spread their message...
 
Now, if Trump WANTED to shut down the press, he could do so immediately by declaring a "state of emergency."  IAW "laws" passed during the Shrub maladministration and the fraudulent D'OhBama one, he doesn't even need a real reason.  He can IMAGINE one.  As he hasn't, again, not authoritarian.
 
IMO, the term "white nationalist" is a psy-op, and a rather transparent one, to boot; it's an attempt to conflate "white supremacist" with "white nationalist."
 
Ridiculous, IOW.  Trump promised during the campaign, "Nationalism, not globalism, will be our credo," and he meant it, and i'm glad.  Would it be more palatable had he prefaced "nationalism" with ANY race, color, creed, gender, or sexual proclivity?  i think not.
The globalists have an agenda of tyranny so terrible that the heart quails to contemplate it.  Ever hear of the Georgia Guidestones?  Websearch it and read what the first one says about the earth's population, and you may get a clue-by-four as to where they want to take things.
 
The SPLC is a bunch of leftist globalists who don't give a damn about poor people OR justice...just the money they can accumulate(much of which has now been stashed offshore), and the "prestige" they have by being foolishly trusted to screen postings online.  Wonder if any of them felt ashamed for listing certain places or people as "hate groups" when THEIR hatred spawned murderers who felt justified in their hatred enough to go a-killin' based solely on their "recommendation"?
 
You DO realize that the SPLC has listed multiple christian churches as "hate groups," too, right?
FacePalm Added Aug 8, 2018 - 5:58am
wsucram-
Face Palm..you are wrong. Sorry.  Sure there are less of them or they are less visible but they are there.  I met up with some in a private club they built in a barn, right here in my home state.  I was riding a friends motorcycle and he stopped in there to talk to someone and asked me to hang around and have a drink.  One of my top ten most uncomfortable moments, ever.
 
i never said they didn't exist, merely that they'd all been infiltrated, long ago.  i think i recall reading about one particular group where fully 25% of the "membership" were police undercovers, from various agencies.  Is it such a great stretch of the imagination that such as these might rise to positions of leadership, then use the neo-nazis to stage any number of incidents?

All of them were upper class guys...with money. I asked one of the guys why he was of the opinion he was and he just told me he hated blacks, jews, etc.  Same old stuff I have heard from the skinheads, aryans and whatever else they call themselves for years at shows. 
 
i don't like 'em, won't hang with 'em, and would call them on their bullshit if they ever decided to argue in favor of hatred for any group.  If necessary, kick some ass...but "a man convinced against his will is of his own opinion still," so i'd prefer to reason someone out of that kind of blind hatred, if possible.  My paternal grandfather blamed everything wrong with the world on "the niggas and the joos," so i learned to recognize and despise the attitude from an early age.  Moneyed or poor or middle class would make no difference to me.
Ward Tipton Added Aug 8, 2018 - 9:37am
Flying Junior - Just a trivial point for and from the record. "Yay Confederate Memorials!  Yay Nathan Bedford Forrest!"
 
Nathan Bedford Forrest, despite popular belief, was not a founding member of the Klan though he was among the most prominent early members and was proud of his stance against Carpetbaggers ... Northerners who had not even fought in the war coming down South to law unlawful ... but legal claim to Southern lands, often treating locals violently and oppressively. 
 
However, he also left the Klan and denounced it when it became a blatantly racist organization, publicly denouncing it on many an occasion. 
 
Just saying, if you want to pick someone to judge against, may want to pick a better example. 
 
Ward Tipton Added Aug 8, 2018 - 9:39am
Facepalm - I seem to remember a study the FBI conducted to determine whether or not there were more informants or actual members in some of the White Supremacist nutbags ... I mean groups, but I have not been able to find any reference to it in decades. It seems as I recall reading it sometime during the eighties maybe? Not sure. 
Ward Tipton Added Aug 8, 2018 - 9:40am
The SPLC? When anyone brings them up as a source, it automatically makes me question the rest of their position. The SPLC is long-established for putting anyone even slightly to the right of Uncle Ho into the category of extremist right-winger. 
Ward Tipton Added Aug 8, 2018 - 9:41am
PS - Best power chords ever on an acoustic guitar ... Dire Straits, "The Man's Too Strong"
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 8, 2018 - 12:58pm
FJ, upping Wards comment regarding Nathan Bedford Forrest,
 he also promised all his slaves their freedom if they would fight on the side of the confederacy.
 
Evidently, his cavalry tactics were good enough that Sherman called him That Devil Forrest.  From the two biographies that I have read he was quite remarkable.
 
From Wikipedia:
"On July 5, 1875, Forrest demonstrated that his personal sentiments on the issue of race now differed from those of the Klan when he was invited to give a speech before the Independent Order of Pole-Bearers Association, a post-war organization of black Southerners advocating to improve the economic condition of blacks and to gain equal rights for all citizens. At this, his last public appearance, he made what The New York Times described as a "friendly speech"[173] during which, when offered a bouquet of flowers by a young black woman, he accepted them,[174] thanked her and kissed her on the cheek as a token of reconciliation between the races. Forrest ignored his critics and spoke in encouragement of black advancement and of endeavoring to be a proponent for espousing peace and harmony between black and white Americans going forward.[175]
 
Mustafa
 
 
Flying Junior Added Aug 8, 2018 - 4:08pm
It's interesting to read your contributions.  I'm not sure I'm ready to leave SPLC behind.  It's not surprising that Westboro Baptist church is listed as a hate group.  I was not aware of The Faithful Word Baptist Church in Tempe.  I guess the pastor prayed for the death of President Obama.  Here is some love from Pastor Anderson, "The biggest hypocrite in the world is the person who believes in the death penalty for murderers but not for homosexuals."
 
This #huntrepublicans creep sounds to me like he is out there on his own.  If you have proof of widespread death threats to the president, then I condemn these actions in the strongest possible terms.  I simply don't see it.  For one thing, on-line threats attract law enforcement.  A person would have to be stupid or insane to put themselves out there like that.
 
Forrest, huh?  You gotta admit his statue wasn't all that great.
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 8, 2018 - 4:37pm
FJ,
re"Forrest, huh?  You gotta admit his statue wasn't all that great."
The one in Nashville is indeed hideous. I would be up for taking that down. LOL.
 
I havent read all of  this but of what I did it looked pretty factual.
 
In particular, as I read before, out of the 45 blacks which fought with him, 44 stayed until the end of the war. They then obtained their freedom.   ( Note BTW, I suspect that means they lived)
 
The author posts several  of Forrest's speeches, the one to his men after the war was over is quite interesting.
 
Mustafa
 
 
Ward Tipton Added Aug 8, 2018 - 10:04pm
I would further recommend reading the autobiography of Elizabeth Keckley, former slave and dressmaker to both the wive's of Lincoln and Jeff Davis. While there are only tidbits of historical reference, they are quite revealing as well. 
wsucram15 Added Aug 8, 2018 - 11:22pm
FacePalm..we arent going to agree on very much, but thank you for being so kind as to clarify your position.  I appreciate that.
Flying Junior Added Aug 9, 2018 - 2:11am
I appreciate you guys weighing in.  It was an extremely difficult leap of faith to even believe...
 
Well y'all can guess what I'm talking about.  I am fairly sensitive to race issues considering that I am the white wunderkind.  The crux of the biscuit is that we all really do want the same things.  We only differ in our approaches as to how to go about gettin' it.
 
In our closest moments I have reconciled with family members in an attitude of beauty and understanding.
 
Mustafa,
 
I read most of your cited account.  While the language is flowery, I am not completely convinced as I have no first-hand knowledge of Forrest's attempt to thwart carpetbaggers.  I went ahead and reserved the two most recent biographies of Forrest from my library.
 
Of course, I hold no animosity to the American South.  Neither did Lincoln.  My cousins live in Mississippi and Florida.
 
But I can personally guarantee you that black Americans hold no special regard for the Confederate States.  The Civil War is widely regarded as having been fought to preserve the institution of slavery.  Only super crazy righties have ever tried to convince me otherwise.
 
It is our shared heritage.  I mean no dishonor to Johnnie Reb.  I let Joan Baez speak for me.
 
As far as Confederate Flags, statues to honor the generals.  It's time to move on and enter the new century where we no longer celebrate the Confederate cause.
 
Ward,
 
I also reserved two autobiographies of Elizabeth Keckley.
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 9, 2018 - 8:02am
FJ, 
a Steve Earl song
Christmastime in Washington
sung by Joan Baez
 
Mustafa
FacePalm Added Aug 9, 2018 - 9:46am
wsucram15-
Thank you for thanking me.  IME, understanding only has a chance of growing where ideas can be shared - and explained.
 
Ward-
Thanks for the song recommend; never heard it before; like it.  Dl'd a version w/lyrics as well as a lesson.  Might learn it when i get time.  The "power chords" aren't technically those, but are definitely PLAYED with power; reminded me of a similar progression in Neil Young's "Inca Queen," a somewhat obscure song by him.
 
Mustafa-
Your link goes to a "This video is not available" page, but i was able to find it by searching out the name and figure it out semi-quick; it's a finger-pickin' tune capo'ed at the 3rd, with the predominant chord progression of C > F > G > F > C again(for any who might've been curious; it's pretty-much Greek to the non-musically-inclined).
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 9, 2018 - 9:59am
FacePalm,  thank you.
 
that link works for me, but for those interesting here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz2OHcIOyp8
is a manual link. 
 
Mustafa
 
 
Utpal Patel Added Aug 9, 2018 - 4:28pm
Quite possibly the worst title to an article I've ever seen.  It also doesn't make grammatical sense, nobody celebrates a car murder.  Or maybe it's a Freudian slip, liberals are always looking for an excuse to protest, I mean celebrate.
Flying Junior Added Aug 9, 2018 - 5:02pm
Utpal,
 
The Unite the Right rally this very weekend in Washington D.C. is doing just exactly that, celebrating the one-year anniversary of the Charlottesville Nazi Tiki Torch March.  I'm sorry I didn't make that more clear.  It is set to occur on the one-year anniversary.  It's not coincidence.  The title was sarcastic, but I explained that in the first paragraph.
Flying Junior Added Aug 9, 2018 - 5:04pm
I'm actually very pleased to see that none of the conservative regulars around here seem to have any sympathy whatsoever for James Alex Fields, Jr.  Good on you, my brothers and sisters.
Ward Tipton Added Aug 9, 2018 - 11:52pm
I would hazard a guess that most conservatives ... and indeed, even most republicans ... would condemn the rationale behind the entire white supremacy movement, Westboro baptist church and any other groups who espoused similarly intolerant views, though we would be among the first to defend their rights to espouse those views ... with the exception of any incitement of violence or violent actions or even any other unlawful activity to a degree ... and to clarify that portion, think Rosa Parks. While what she did may have been illegal in accordance with the law, was it actually unlawful? 
Flying Junior Added Aug 10, 2018 - 12:50am
I like that.  I once tried to post about a short story from 1940 that was all about a young pair of black people who were asked to move to the back of the bus on a ride from Washington D.C. to Durham, North Carolina.  Fascinating piece from a full sixteen years before the famous ride by Rosa Parks.
FacePalm Added Aug 10, 2018 - 7:19am
opher:
Thomas - fascism needs confronting where-ever it is. That should be done vehemently but within the law and without violence. There's always a few nutters.
Just curious; do you know where the symbols of fascism - the fasces - can be found in Washington DC, and do you know of anyone currently protesting/demonstrating against them?
 
Offhand, i know of two; in the Lincoln Memorial, the statue sits on a chair into whose armrest supports are carved a fasces under each hand; If you visit the House of Representatives, there is one flanking each side of the Speaker's Dias.
FacePalm Added Aug 10, 2018 - 7:26am
Ward-
I would hazard a guess that most conservatives ... and indeed, even most republicans ... would condemn the rationale behind the entire white supremacy movement, Westboro baptist church and any other groups who espoused similarly intolerant views, though we would be among the first to defend their rights to espouse those views
 
Don't know if i'd marry myself to ALL conservative views, but i certainly sided w/Rosa Parks and her then-astounding bravery, and have despised the Westboro Baptists ever since i first heard of them.
 
... with the exception of any incitement of violence or violent actions or even any other unlawful activity to a degree ... and to clarify that portion, think Rosa Parks. While what she did may have been illegal in accordance with the law, was it actually unlawful?
 
Bingo.  Everything that Hitler did was "legal."  Everything the Hungarian Freedom Fighters did was "illegal."  For that matter, everything the colonists did was certainly "illegal" to the British.  Sometimes - MOST of the time, IMO - "authority" needs to be fought, especially when those who "assume" it have merely usurped it.  That said, timing is everything.
Ward Tipton Added Aug 10, 2018 - 7:53am
I often wondered about the Post Office on Virginia Street in downtown Reno (If it is even still there). During the first Gulf Conflict, I actually went to reenlist and took my ASVAB there ... and at the top trim of the interior, surrounding the entire inside of the Post Office, were Swastikas in what looked like Faux Silver. Mind you, I have no idea when the building was constructed and also recognize that the Swastika was used in many different formats before the Nazis ruined it for most everyone else. 
Doug Plumb Added Aug 10, 2018 - 8:54am
Just so everyone knows: NAZI means "National Socialist Zionist International." The Germans had a different word for socialism that started with an A. The star of David on the back of the NAZI coin is also interesting. It just conflict with what we wish to "consider" as truth. I wish we could learn to "determine" truth in reality instead of "considering" it for convenience.
Flying Junior Added Aug 10, 2018 - 3:47pm
Douggie,
 
Uh, no.  Not really.  It's from a German word, Nationalsozialist, which is derived from another abbreviation of a longer word.  Sozi was a popular abbreviation for Sozialistiche.
 
https://www.etymonline.com/word/nazi



 
Nazi
 
1930, noun and adjective, from German Nazi, abbreviation of German pronunciation of Nationalsozialist (based on earlier German sozi, popular abbreviation of "socialist"), from Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei "National Socialist German Workers' Party," led by Hitler from 1920.

 
Apparently I ruffled some feathers with my use of the term.  Believe me I would be much happier if there was no such thing as a Neo-Nazi or an American Nazi.  Believe it or not, there is a political party that calls themselves the American Nazi Party and they have been around since 1959.
 
Most of my readers took my meaning well.  I don't resent people that would rather not use that word at all.  I can hardly blame them.


Flying Junior Added Aug 10, 2018 - 3:55pm
Apparently the rally is set for Sunday, the exact one year anniversary.  Also I was mistaken.  It is not on the National Mall, (thank the Goddess,) but rather Lafayette Park.
 
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/08/10/washington-d-c-prepares-charlottesville-white-nationalist-rally/888287002/
 
As a white person, of course I am extremely concerned about my civil rights. /sarc
Jeffrey Kelly Added Aug 25, 2018 - 1:56pm
I just checked and all my civil rights are still there.
Whew!!!  That’s a relief!!!!
 
Damn all those who don’t want me to engage in my white culture!!!!!  I’ll listen the Beatles whenever I want!!!!
FacePalm Added Sep 1, 2018 - 8:09am
Yeah, the "nazi's" gathered in DC - all twenty-four of 'em, and probably half of those were police undercovers, whether regular police or one of dozens of police-type agencies(bureau of land management, ATF, CIA, effabeeeye, etc.)
 
Meanwhile, hundreds of antifa gathered, and when they couldn't find any nazis to punch, started destroying property and attacking journalists.  Must've been the hammer-and-sickle wing of these sick bastards, who apparently are secure in their certainty that anyone who does not espouse their groupthink belief-system is worthy of assault, battery, and eventually, murder - wait and see.
 
Jeffrey-
Years ago, a guy i became acquainted with at an open mic had his song book, and on the front cover was a cartoon, showing 2 wheelchair-bound grumpy guys, one yelling 'Beatles!' at the other, who was yelling back 'Rolling Stones!'
 
Some people just look for a fight, i guess.