The Terrorists Won!! Or did they??

It seems to me that the intention of terrorism is to destabilise. It sets out to cause disruption and chaos out of all proportion to the level of actual harm. By committing high-profile atrocities of horrific nature it creates fear and a feeling of threat far in excess of reality.

 

That is what ISIS, Boko Haram, A Qaeda, the Taliban and other related groups deliberately set out to do.

 

The twin towers, beheadings, crucifixion, burning people alive, barbaric torture, kidnapping, bombing young kids at concerts, knifings, suicide bombings and grotesque medieval style callous murders were all aimed to draw maximum attention and create fear and panic.

 

That was their intent. The actual numbers of Westerners killed in these horrific acts were really quite small. But the impact was enormous.

 

The Western response was out of all proportion. Invasion, war and conflict. Just what the terrorists wanted. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, Syria and others. All fertile ground for recruitment. It fitted their rhetoric. Islam was under attack. There was a Jihad. It had to be protected against crusader attack. It worked.

Western Muslims were recruited, became militant and a new era of extreme Islam was spawned.

 

The wars generated huge instability and hatred in Arab countries. It created mass migration. Again playing into the hands of the radicalised extremists.

 

Faced with this wave of mass migration and radical Islam coupled with the terrorist threats the West became even more defensive. Islamophobia came to the fore. Muslims were a threat to the West. They were swamping us. They were intent on bringing in Sharia law. They were harbouring terrorists.

 

Tolerance and compassion went out the window. There were the rise of fascist groups and extreme right-wingers in Europe and the States. The anti-immigrant, Islamophobic propaganda exaggerated the problems and created a narrative around terrorism, rapists, sharia law, burqas, niqabs, mosques and birth rates. Instead of dealing with the genuine problems created by mass immigration and radicalisation we moved towards anger and rejection. Muslims became isolated and perceived as the enemy. Once again playing into the hands of the radicalised extremists. Recruitment was easy. Ostracised youth felt rejected, angry and filled with hate. They were easy prey for propaganda. It was easy to portray the West as crusaders wanting to eradicate Islam.

 

The end result was the election of Trump and the Brexit vote, the rise of right-wing groups across Europe and in the USA and the resultant division, chaos and hatred.

 

What did the terrorists set out to achieve? They set out to weaken the West, cause chaos, destabilise democracy, break alliances and sow the seeds of our destruction.

 

Well it looks to me as if they have succeeded hands down!

 

The US is divided with hatred and tribalism. The post-truth era is creating instability and doubt in democracy.

 

The UK is enfeebled by Brexit.

 

The EU is enfeebled by Brexit.

 

There is rampant Islamophobia.

 

Mass migration had created turmoil with no coherent plan.

 

Fascism is once more a potent force.

 

Alliances such as NATO are weakened.

 

Liberalisation, tolerance and compassion are in retreat.

 

We are wallowing in nationalism, extremism and racism.

 

The terrorists have succeeded in fermenting chaos, destabilising democracy and weakening the West.

 

What a mess we have made of it all so far. But Hey - I reckon we can weather the stupidities of Trump and Brexit, deal with mass migration, rebuild our alliances, re-establish truth, become stable again, re-establish our trading arrangements to create prosperity, see off nationalism and regain our liberal policies, tolerance and compassion. This is just a nasty blip.

Comments

opher goodwin Added Aug 8, 2018 - 7:01pm
The fear of terrorism extended over into immigration. Trump used it to divide, create fear and hatred and feed his base. It got him elected.
opher goodwin Added Aug 8, 2018 - 7:06pm
BTW - the threat from terrorism is miniscule. In the UK:
There were 1792 deaths from road accidents in 2016
there are around 6000 deaths from home accidents a year
5190 people were killed at work in 2016
126 people died between 2000-2017 from all terrorism – that’s less than 8 a year.
That's about on a par with being killed by your own pet bee.
Doug Plumb Added Aug 8, 2018 - 9:25pm
Its called Trotskyism. Trotskyites practice terrorism to shift political opinion. Almost all terrorism throughout history has been "inside jobs".
Doug Plumb Added Aug 8, 2018 - 9:26pm
Fear and hate are the tools of both sides. They confuse you with fear and then inject the hate.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 8, 2018 - 9:38pm
Badlose, you leftists are the terrorists that just killed 100 million with Communism.  Wake up and smell the coffee.  Islam is a death cult.  It doesn't matter if they are in the Middle East or in America.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Aug 8, 2018 - 10:09pm
D'Opher sure does live in a fantasy world. 
wsucram15 Added Aug 8, 2018 - 10:50pm
Opher..I have written about this several times. The amount of Americans killed by Muslims is about 1% of Muslims killed by Americans.  I think in 2015 the count was 4 million Muslims we had killed.
But their methods are much more effective because Americans are proud and arrogant.  Also, even though it had been done before, it was unbelievable that a foreign actor could take control and kill people on our own soil with our own property. 
 
The line that most attacks on US soil are Muslim are also incorrect by far.
James Travil Added Aug 8, 2018 - 10:55pm
If the rise of the police state and loss of civil liberties is any indication then yes, the terrorists have won. 
Jeff Michka Added Aug 8, 2018 - 11:38pm
Yup. James...the terrorists won.  They got people willing to give up their liberties to be safe, wandering around, quaking in fear of someone shoving them into a manure spreader and flying the crop duster into it.  After 9/11 Americans should have lined up to fly in an airliner, lined up to go to the top of tall buildings, but instead, fear and loathing of "the Other" and "Those people with the nasty religion, although we don't know anything about "their" religion, save it should be banned from America."  Terrorist couldn't have hoped for more.  Is America a safer or better place because of the terrorist hysteria?  Nope.  Now we've a "national spokesperson" for fear in America, Trump, coward in chief.  No, ERW Americans were responsible for most terror deaths in the US.  And rightists are REALLY UNHAPPY the Las Vegas shootings weren't done by an arab over the edge.  Spoils their fear narrative.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 9, 2018 - 3:50am
Oph
 
Once again. Wesley Clark. Agenda 9/11. Is that so hard to follow ?
opher goodwin Added Aug 9, 2018 - 5:04am
Doug - it goes back well before Trotsky.
opher goodwin Added Aug 9, 2018 - 5:06am
Jeanne - I think if we hadn't been out there killing Arabs and starting wars we wouldn't now have a problem with radical Islam, terrorism or mass migration. The trouble we cause!
opher goodwin Added Aug 9, 2018 - 5:07am
I see the playground mentality is still at work. Childishness prevails with some. Shame they lack the intellect to engage.
opher goodwin Added Aug 9, 2018 - 5:08am
Jeffry - a fantasy world? Really? And which bit of the logic do you repudiate? Or is that too intelligent a response for you?
opher goodwin Added Aug 9, 2018 - 5:09am
James - it certainly is a symptom. That, Brexit, Trump and the rise of fascism.
opher goodwin Added Aug 9, 2018 - 5:13am
Yes Jeff - Bush really squandered the capital he had after 9/11. He had everyone on his side. He chose to have a war on terror that simply created more terror and start wars against countries that were never involved in the first place. He could have done things so much better. The daft fool created the problem.
And yes - the right-wing have created more terror and death in America than Islamists.
opher goodwin Added Aug 9, 2018 - 5:17am
Stone - GEN. WESLEY CLARK]
Well, in a way. But, you know, history doesn’t repeat itself exactly twice. What I did warn about when I testified in front of Congress in 2002, I said if you want to worry about a state, it shouldn’t be Iraq, it should be Iran. But this government, our administration, wanted to worry about Iraq, not Iran.

I knew why, because I had been through the Pentagon right after 9/11. About ten days after 9/11, I went through the Pentagon and I saw Secretary Rumsfeld and Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz. I went downstairs just to say hello to some of the people on the Joint Staff who used to work for me, and one of the generals called me in. He said, “Sir, you’ve got to come in and talk to me a second.” I said, “Well, you’re too busy.” He said, “No, no.” He says, “We’ve made the decision we’re going to war with Iraq.” This was on or about the 20th of September. I said, “We’re going to war with Iraq? Why?” He said, “I don’t know.” He said, “I guess they don’t know what else to do.” So I said, “Well, did they find some information connecting Saddam to al-Qaeda?” He said, “No, no.” He says, “There’s nothing new that way. They just made the decision to go to war with Iraq.” He said, “I guess it’s like we don’t know what to do about terrorists, but we’ve got a good military and we can take down governments.” And he said, “I guess if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem has to look like a nail.”

So I came back to see him a few weeks later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, “Are we still going to war with Iraq?” And he said, “Oh, it’s worse than that.” He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. And he said, “I just got this down from upstairs” -- meaning the Secretary of Defense’s office -- “today.” And he said, “This is a memo that describes how we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 9, 2018 - 6:30am
Needs no more comment, does it ?
Stone-Eater Added Aug 9, 2018 - 6:35am
Oph
 
It's neither "wing"that creates havoc. It's business. And business doesn't care about political orientation. They use political ideologies as pretexts.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 9, 2018 - 6:40am
BTW: Clinton was officially Democrat (not right wing)when she took down Gadhafi
opher goodwin Added Aug 9, 2018 - 7:40am
Stone - no - that says it all.
opher goodwin Added Aug 9, 2018 - 7:40am
Stone - well its that 3% who control it who cause the trouble. They're greedy selfish nuts.
Dino Manalis Added Aug 9, 2018 - 8:45am
 It's a constant battle, but the focus should be on stability.  I don't like dictators, but the demise of Saddam Hussein; Mubarak; and Gaddafi started the chaos; Sunni-Shiite hostilities; and refugee crisis.  The Middle East and North Africa need to restore stability to stop the chaos, while suspects have to be monitored worldwide.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Aug 9, 2018 - 12:26pm
It seems to me that the intention of terrorism is to destabilise.
No, fail. I won't even read past that sentence. Terrorists explicitly state what they want and it is stupifying, deceptive and dishonest to infer some other trash.
opher goodwin Added Aug 9, 2018 - 12:28pm
Dino - I agree. I don't like those tyrannical dictators but there are better ways of dealing with them other than flattening their countries and kicking over a hornet's nest.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Aug 9, 2018 - 12:58pm
Yes, in the end the terrorists got what they wanted.  I find that horrifying.  What's worse is if something like 9-11 happens again then it will continue to erode civil liberties in order to make people feel "safe."
opher goodwin Added Aug 9, 2018 - 1:25pm
Jeff - It is scary to see the dominoes that were knocked down in a sequences of stupidities as Bush orchestrated a series of stupid wars and inept actions. If it happened again it could result in  further stupidities, erosion of rights and populist stupidities.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Aug 9, 2018 - 1:50pm
It also further perpetuates stereotypes of Muslims as belonging to a “death cult.”
opher goodwin Added Aug 9, 2018 - 3:51pm
Jeff - it seems stereotyping is what these people do all the time. It is so easy to dehumanise people and take away their individuality through stereotyping. It's plain lazy. When it comes to such negative portrayals it is just racist. Where most Muslims are peace loving to put them in the same bag as radicalised ISIS scum is just plain wrong. It creates a narrative that they buy into. All Muslims are barbaric killers. All Mexicans are rapists and drug pedlars. It is so simplistic and racist but it conjures an image in the head that they can believe.
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 9, 2018 - 5:50pm
OH,
the Horror indeed:
So what’s a foreign journalist to do when finding a trove of documents?
Jenan Moussa, a reporter for the UAE-based Al Aan TV who covers ISIS, recently created a common ground between a reporter’s desire to report on documents and a country’s right to possess them. Last year, Moussa came across a 5,000-page trove of ISIS court documents at a mosque in Tabqa, a city in northern Syria.
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 9, 2018 - 6:03pm
It is a simple fact of life these days that, owing to a deliberate decision to downsize government, Washington can operate only by paying private companies to perform a wide range of functions. To get some idea of the scale: contractors absorb the taxes paid by everyone in America with incomes under $100,000.
 
In other words, more than 90 percent of all taxpayers might as well remit everything they owe directly to SAIC or some other contractor rather than to the IRS. In Washington these companies go by the generic name “body shops”—they supply flesh-and-blood human beings to do the specialized work that government agencies no longer can.
SAIC has displayed an uncanny ability to thrive in every conceivable political climate. It is the invisible hand behind a huge portion of the national-security state—the one sector of the government whose funds are limitless and whose continued growth is assured every time a politician utters the word “terrorism.”
SAIC represents, in other words, a private business that has become a form of permanent government.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2007/03/spyagency200703
 
National Security Agency, America’s intelligence-gathering “electronic ear” and for many years SAIC’s biggest customer. The volume of telephone, e-mail, and other electronic communications that the N.S.A. intercepts worldwide is so massive that the agency urgently needs a new computer system to store it, sort it, and give it meaning—otherwise it will keep missing clues like the Arabic message “Tomorrow is zero hour,” intercepted the day before 9/11 but not translated until the day after. SAIC won the initial $280 million, 26-month contract to design and create this system, called Trailblazer. Four years and more than a billion dollars later, the effort has been abandoned. General Michael V. Hayden, the former head of the N.S.A. and now the director of the C.I.A., blamed the failure on “the fact we were trying to overachieve, we were throwing deep and we should have been throwing short passes.”
 
 
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 9, 2018 - 6:25pm
THEY WON IF,
WE allow all the social safety nets removed
Just for "Space force" costs
Cant afford Health Insurance for Americans BUT
spend to defend USA against ET?
Fucking Morons!
opher goodwin Added Aug 9, 2018 - 6:52pm
Wendy - there seem to be a lot of morons in control right now. What is happening with health care, abortion, contraception, Islamophobia, racism, border security and such is so authoritarian, callous, officious and draconian it is unbelievable. Doesn't anybody care anymore?
wsucram15 Added Aug 9, 2018 - 8:42pm
Wendy...you just made me laugh so hard I drew tears.  ET...
They won..
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 9, 2018 - 9:56pm
Og and wsu15,
Indeed, "Damn those hairy apes!"
Stone-Eater Added Aug 10, 2018 - 2:50am
Bughir...oh Bughie sorrx Buggie....typos...pretty delusional sort of regime lately seen in the US. Loss of reality due to too much Follywood ?
opher goodwin Added Aug 10, 2018 - 4:17am
Stone - too much Davy Crockett, John Wayne and Ronald Reagan.
opher goodwin Added Aug 10, 2018 - 4:18am
Wendy - Are we into Planet of the Apes now? I thought we were just sending ET back home?
Doug Plumb Added Aug 10, 2018 - 6:56am
Wendy, the IRS is a privately owned corporation.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 10, 2018 - 8:04am
Oph
 
Yiihaa ! Get them gunslingers down to Syria :-)
opher goodwin Added Aug 10, 2018 - 9:15am
Stone - we gotta round up them doggies first!!
opher goodwin Added Aug 10, 2018 - 9:15am
Doug - not here it isn't.
Katharine Otto Added Aug 10, 2018 - 11:47am
Opher,
According to me, the terrorists are in NYC and Washington, DC.  They are busy manipulating public opinion against "The Other."  No matter what your interest-group, there is a canned adversary you are expected to hate, and the media is happy to tell you why.
 
The war on terror is fundamentally a war on citizens and taxpayers, funded on all sides by the bankers, with unborn future taxpayers'  money.  We are lucky they (the government terrorists, that is) are not bombing our own homes and infrastructure (yet), and blaming it on Russians, N. Koreans, and Iranians.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 10, 2018 - 12:05pm
Katharine
 
Yep.
Wendy Bugliari Added Aug 10, 2018 - 12:44pm
SEF,
Did you read link to SAIC article above?
YOU will love the involvement with PR firm/Iraq war/Radiation level fix because they get Government contracts to do so.
Thing is firm hires ex Generals, etc. so they can get contracts as private (well public now) from Government employees once worked for.
Much better than Alex Jones theories because they exist since Koch industry Venezuela I posted earlier where PDVSA system was taken by American firm for $1,000 aha ha. That is how SAIC began and now soo huge spinoff is Leidos.
Cheers,
~The Bug~
opher goodwin Added Aug 10, 2018 - 2:17pm
Katharine - I would concur with that!!
wsucram15 Added Aug 10, 2018 - 8:42pm
ou know I just watched a speech today by Reagan. It was interesting. He said-"America represents something universal in the human spirit. I received a letter not long ago from a man who said, 'You can go to Japan to live, but you cannot become Japanese. You can go to France to live and not become a Frenchman. You can go to live in Germany or Turkey, and you won't become a German or a Turk.' But then he added, 'Anybody from any corner of the world can come to America to live and become an American."
There was more but it added up to the unique framework of The United States, how anyone willing to work and become a citizen can honor the laws here and become American. It was then and is now, what made this country different from all others.
 
I remember him well, other Presidents also that worked hard for the people. they had their issues, but inspired people and the nation to get through hard times.
 
Also Opher..Kathrine is correct.
Bill H. Added Aug 10, 2018 - 11:20pm
Jeanne - I actually liked Reagan and voted for him. To compare today's Republicans to Reagan (especially Trump) is like comparing apples to oranges. There is no comparison.
Reagan had compassion and reason. Even with being on the brink of ALZ, he had his act together. His only flaw was his "trickle down" policy, but virtually every President has had some issues.
I thought GWB was a dummy, but he is a scholar compared to Trump.
Trump does not think or reason, he only reacts. Just like a snail when you touch their antenna, or a jellyfish when you poke their bell.
wsucram15 Added Aug 10, 2018 - 11:45pm
Yeah I voted for him also..I liked him. Freaked my entire family out as some of them were in the politics game then and all Dems.  No I just wanted people to read what the man said...he pretty much was the image of what Republicans should be.  Not perfect but with grace, dignity and when needed force.
I would trade any one of them for Trump and I protested against Bush 44.  His father did some interesting things, particularly for the elderly and handicapped that Reagan overlooked.  But I wasnt happy with Bush 41 or 44 on 9/11.
But God help me I would take any one of them instead of Trump.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Aug 11, 2018 - 4:56am
At the yearly state of the nation message, we have been greeted with the declaration that the union is strong. I have no access to the president's info, so I muse as I think of airline hostess demonstrating the safety protocal. Who really gets it?
 
President Trump has been the bushfire that removes the suffocating under bushes that have been sufficating democracy. And though he has had totalitarian tendencies, the Constitution has proven to be STRONG.  Rex rules in America and we get it. The under bushes can be considered as out of whack immigration policies,  support for dictatorships if they are our friends,  and unnecessary war to support hawks with new Colonialist/militaristic agenda. Are we at any new war generated by Trump?
 
Yes, we need to be more tolerant to make it possible for persons to get driver's licenses with their face covered, for them to pick up children at school with said covering, and to flaunt all laws that required uncovered face. So, we need to bend over backward and allow immigrants to speak whatever language they want and not learn the language of the nation they are dying to get in.
Yes, America ferments hate to the extent those whom the hate is being perpetrated against want to come to America--the great satan. For what? We alienate nations.
 
What, then, prevents the Arab countries from uniting and using the strength of their petrodollars to develop their own nations and help their groups whose religious practice is at variance with that of the US, and which we are trampling?
 
 
 
 
 
Stone-Eater Added Aug 11, 2018 - 5:11am
Buggie
 
Wow - that SAIC stuff. Already spread acaross the net :-)
opher goodwin Added Aug 11, 2018 - 6:27am
Jeanne - that's pretty much the same here. A lot of our politicians are immigrant and more English than the English.
John Minehan Added Aug 11, 2018 - 11:22am
This.
 
"When I first arrived in Indochina in 1953, the French were mainly fighting in the Red River Delta. This was the key French area in North Viet-Nam, . . . [with a] fortified French battle line. The French headquarters city was Hanoi. When I arrived I checked in with the French briefing officer and asked what the situation was in the Delta. He said:
Well, we hold pretty much of it; there is the French fortified line around the Delta which we call the "Marshal de Lattre Line"--about 2200 bunkers forming 900 forts. We are going to deny the communists access to the 8 million people in this Delta and the 3 million tons of rice it produces. We will eventually starve them out and deny them access to the population.
In other words, this was the strategic hamlet complex seen five thousand times bigger. There were about 8,000 villages inside that line. This fortified line also protected the rice fields then, whereas now the individual strategic hamlets do not protect the same fields. "Well," I said, "do the communists hold anything inside the Delta?" The answer was, "Yes, they hold those five black blotches" [on a map]. But at the University of Hanoi, which was under national Vietnamese control, my fellow Vietnamese students just laughed. They said that their home villages inside the Delta were communist-controlled and had communist village chiefs, and just about everybody else said the same thing: that both the French and the Vietnamese Army simply did not know what was going on.
 
Most of these villages were, in fact, controlled by the communists and I decided to attempt to document that control. It was actually very simple. To the last breath a government will try to collect taxes. So I used a working hypothesis; I went to the Vietnamese tax collection office in Hanoi to look at the village tax rolls. They immediately indicated that the bulk of the Delta was no longer paying taxes. As a cross-check on my theory I used the village teachers.
 
The school teachers in Viet-Nam were centrally assigned by the government. Hence, where there were school teachers the government could be assumed to have control. Where there were none, there was no government control. [I produced a map that showed] the difference between military "control" and what the communists controlled administratively, which was 70 percent of the Delta inside the French battle lines! This was one year before the Battle of Dien Bien Phu, in May 1954. In fact, the [official military situation maps--showing only small, isolated areas believed to be less than 30 percent French-controlled-- were] complete fiction and had absolutely no bearing on the real situation inside the Delta. Of course, when regular communist divisions became available to attack the Delta in June 1954, the whole illusion collapsed. . . . The last French battle line before the ceasefire [lay deep in a zone that was, in fact, solidly] communist-infiltrated and, of course, it collapsed overnight. That is revolutionary warfare. You now have seen the difference between the two."
 
wsucram15 Added Aug 11, 2018 - 1:08pm
You are never going to believe this Opher...the restaurants in DC have refused to serve the White Supremacists, in fact they will be closing with posted signs.  Do to the violence in Charlottesville and possible damages and injury to staff.
So at taxpayers expense, the white house is providing lunch on the mall (at least I am told).  In all my years protesting, that has never happened.
I mean, people sit on the sides of the road and either sell or provide water, depending on the protest and who it is. Now I have seen the restaurants closed before so people cant buy food during the protest, but you take snacks and food.
Yeah..tell me there is no bias, sure.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 11, 2018 - 3:44pm
Well, what better way to show how much Trump loves white nationalists than by feeding them.  With luck, the food supplied will have been taken away from feeding the evil "Other."  Maybe some hungry children can watch the nazis cram food in their faces so the nazis can laugh at the hungry kids.
opher goodwin Added Aug 11, 2018 - 4:12pm
Jeanne - that is utterly unbelievable!!
Jeff Michka Added Aug 11, 2018 - 8:01pm
No, opher, this is "Modern 'Murrica"  so it's completely believable.  How would hungry good white people look on TV?
wsucram15 Added Aug 11, 2018 - 8:46pm
My reporter friend says some restaurants will close after lunch.  Others are not forcing employees to work and still others are paying transportation to and from work away from metro stations.   Restaurants are also giving the right to refuse service.  So they wont go hungry, she was unable to find another source about the food from WH.
There is a DC Human Rights Act which allows the restaurants to deny service and/or close.  Also while the WS are allowed free speech, they are not a protected class under any federal statute.
I wanted to go get some shots of the goings on,  but (again) family will not allow it.  I apologize if the comment is incorrect...jumped too soon. 
Bill H. Added Aug 12, 2018 - 1:28am
Jeanne - If that is true about the white house providing lunch to the Nazis and skinheads, it should prove beyond a doubt what Trump's real priorities are. For some reason, It wouldn't surprise me the least bit. It's the type of spontaneous thing Trump would do thinking it would please his base with no thought on how to explain it tomorrow. If this is so, let's see how Sara Huckabee handles this one.
opher goodwin Added Aug 12, 2018 - 6:00am
Jeff - it is the open support of fascism that is so scary.
opher goodwin Added Aug 12, 2018 - 6:01am
Bill/Jeanne - I wait to see if this takes off.
Eric Reports Added Sep 6, 2018 - 7:56am
Depressing article.
opher goodwin Added Sep 8, 2018 - 10:14am
Yes it is depressing to think that the terrorists have got their way.