What is the best way to respond to abusive posters?

Everyone has seen abusive posters, and I'm wondering how we can help minimize that sort of behavior in our forums.


I'm not talking about occasional sarcasm, or even words passionate posters often add like the word stupid, I'm certainly guilty there, I'm talking about posters who seem to live to insult others, and revel in childish retorts. 


I love the discussions, information and opinion sharing and debate, but think posters who would rather just waste everyone's time slinging insults are annoying distractions we'd all be better off without.


I'm open for suggestions.


Bill H. Added Aug 28, 2018 - 11:37am
Maybe the addition of a "time out" feature that would trigger based on the amount of abusive words thrown from one poster to another. The more abusive words, the longer the time-out. Since those who usually resort to this are childish, a children's punishment is applicable.
Also, maybe time-out's could be set by users. The more time-out "votes", the longer the time-out period.
Of course, with a system like this, people like Ryan Messano would become non-existent.
Leroy Added Aug 28, 2018 - 11:40am
If you are the author, use that little "x" on the comment.  As an author, you owe it to your audience to maintain the thread.  I'm tolerant, but when two people start hurling insults at each other, the thread becomes difficult to follow.  That is when I start deleting.  I generally don't care what insults are hurled at me, but I do care about the people sharing their opinions.  I don't apologize or even acknowledge.  Any protests are met with the same response.
Riley Brown Added Aug 28, 2018 - 11:51am
Bill, unfortunately none of us can create a time out feature for this forum, but I do like your analogy to other types of equally childish behavior and the way many people attempt to do something about it in real life.
If we could I think it would be a good idea.
Dino Manalis Added Aug 28, 2018 - 11:53am
 Just don't respond to them or abuse the abuser so he receives a sting of his behavior.
Riley Brown Added Aug 28, 2018 - 11:54am
Leroy, I have considered using the x button but so far haven't because I think it helps other participants get a full picture of an abusive poster's personality. 
If it works well for you I think it's worth considering.
Riley Brown Added Aug 28, 2018 - 12:11pm
Dino, I've tried sarcasm and tried ignoring them, but their childish posts are distracting, and some of the worst ones are very prolific.
I'm not a fan of profanity so I generally prefer not to respond in kind if they get bad.  I tend to think they most prolific ones have mental issues and or are really just children pretending to be adults and do worry about doing anything that might make a frustrated person with issues go postal in real life, or be abusive to a child in ways that I would never do if I knew who they really were.  Even if they are really adults and responded poorly to internet criticism by beating their children, I'd not be pleased.
When I look at the profile of people who become active shooters, most are losers in real life who act out online because they can express their frustration without fear of retribution.  Their shooting rampages often follow internet activity and contributions that are quite similar to what some of our most abusive posters often do.
Riley Brown Added Aug 28, 2018 - 12:15pm
Bill, I'd love to see WB suspend participants who repeatedly use foul language or waste everyon's time by posting endless insults that have no relationship to the forum discussion.
FacePalm Added Aug 28, 2018 - 12:22pm
i believe Autumn addressed this issue previously.  IIRC, she said to complain to the thread's originator, who has the power to delete any post on the thread in question.
It's already been mentioned that if anyone does so to an article YOU began, YOU have the power to do so.
If we're to be semi-self-policing adults, surely we can clean up the trash on our own comments sections.
There's disagreement - which i'm fine with - but then there's simply invective, insult, demeaning, belittling, disparagement, and mocking, which is ALSO demonstrative of non-adult behavior, IMO.  i've only posted one article here since i began a couple of weeks ago, but once i found out about that feature, i used it - albeit sparingly - but this is the ONLY website where i've been able to delete the haters, and i admit to quite enjoying that power.
That said, it's good to keep aware of this ancient aphorism:
"If you want to test someone's character, give them a little money or a little power, and watch how they use either."
Riley Brown Added Aug 28, 2018 - 1:21pm
FacePalm, I like your wise words at the end of your post. 
When I see very abusive posters I often imagine they are total wimps in real life who like pretending they are bold and powerful from behind the safety of a screen.  I would think most people who are not frustrated in real life don't feel like wasting their time in such childish endeavors.
I'm not at all concerned with disagreement and the passion that often accompanies it, but I dislike posters whose only participation seems to be posting one insult after another.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 28, 2018 - 1:23pm
Alas, poor Riley feels beset.  If someone finds an article that is obviously false or crap, then they deserve to hear about it in comments.  You, Riley, wouldn't know anyone personally that posts fake articles, trying to attract a certain type of person commenting and a certain type of comment, do you? Gee, got a mirror handy?  You got caught with a story that was just "too good," and obviously an attempt to deceive.  Still scared of the homeless people when you ride your bike?
Ken Added Aug 28, 2018 - 2:57pm
A perfect example of why there is a red x at your disposal Riley
Jeff Michka Added Aug 28, 2018 - 3:41pm
You tell 'em, Kenny.
FacePalm Added Aug 28, 2018 - 4:32pm
i wish i could say that i wrote those wise words; at best, i'm a good parrot.
That said, i think that learning ancient wisdom helps avoid present trouble - future trouble, too, if you learn enough.  i subscribe to a service that sends 3 "liberty quotes" every weekday, and i've been reformatting and saving them to a folder.  i'm up to about 860 pages of single-spaced citations now, from people who are far wiser than i ever have hope of becoming - but i've learned.  If you're interested, let me know and i'll supply a url where you can sign up as well, if you like.
IMO, until direct computer-to-brain interface is perfected(some say that in certain gov't circles, it already has), there are but 4 ways to learn anything:
Read it, and believe the author told the truth;
Hear it from someone experienced, and believe THEY'RE not lying;
See it with your own eyes, and believe the truth your eyes have seen;
Experience it for yourself.
The last way teaches the best, but hurts the most; those who love you don't want to see you get hurt, which is why they often waste their time giving people advice.
Then, too, there are some things that cannot be learned any other way than experience, too, like riding a bike; you could read everything written about it, hear tales from everyone able to tell of their experience, watch people biking for months - but you'll never KNOW how to ride a bike except by actually riding one.
But here's one of the quotes i've collected over the years you might find helpful, too:
"Experience is the school of mankind, but fools will learn at no other."
To me, this means it's far better to learn from the experiences of others than to suffer the pain(and scars) that usually attend learning the hard way.
Bill Kamps Added Aug 28, 2018 - 5:22pm
Unfortunately any kind of censorship starts us down that slippery  slope.  Some dont like the language, some dont like the personal attacks, some dont like the lies, some dont like the stupidity, the list goes on.
I just ignore the people who post what I dont tolerate.  If we dont engage with them, they dont even know we read what they wrote.  This is especially true when the person makes baseless accusations, puts words in my mouth, or engages in personal attacks. 
Riley Brown Added Aug 28, 2018 - 5:24pm
Ken, of course this forum wouldn't be complete without someone contributing a poster boy example of the type of "abusive poster", I'm talking about.
You're right, I could push that button but then when other people try to figure out what kind of person they are they couldn't see what  he/she usually contributes.
I'm also wondering if we delete those posts, do those people get even more frustrated and take it out on other people in the real world?  That would be a real downside.
Riley Brown Added Aug 28, 2018 - 5:28pm
Through the years I've found that copying success is far easier than reinventing the wheel.  I try to learn from other people's experiences as much as possible, it's faster, more economical and often much less painful.
Riley Brown Added Aug 28, 2018 - 5:32pm
Dino, I think your suggestion about ignoring chronic abusers has the most appeal to me.  I don't risk angering them to the point where they might go postal on real people, or encourage them to become any more prolific than they already are.
James Travil Added Aug 28, 2018 - 6:10pm
"I'm also wondering if we delete those posts, do those people get even more frustrated and take it out on other people in the real world? That would be a real downside."
Highly doubtful. I suspect that most of these people are real wimps in real life. Keyboard warriors only. Face them in the real world and they mel
The only two I've had issues with are Alex Jones and Lying Ryan. I find that Lying Ryan fades away like a pansy when fed his own medicine, and Alex Jones is countered by disengaging after pointing out that he lost the debate by lowering himself to Ad Hominem nonsense. Others may be best ignored all together, but in essence I'm saying that all trolls are different and may require different approaches based on their personalities. 
Leroy Added Aug 28, 2018 - 6:20pm
"Leroy, I have considered using the x button but so far haven't because I think it helps other participants get a full picture of an abusive poster's personality."
Riley, I generally don't find a single poster to be a problem.  I can ignore them.  It's when someone engages them and the back and forth starts.  I don't have to read or participate in articles by authors who are abusive or use vulgar language.  It's my choice.  Some, the comments get so out of control, no one bothers to read them.  If you have a 100 comments and 95 of them are insults, nobody reads them except those who want to fight.  So, do you let them fight or throw them out?  They become a distraction to everyone else.  Everyone likes a good brawl now and then.  The author just has to decide whether or not to let it happen.
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 28, 2018 - 6:27pm
Riley, good question.
It appears to me  that interacting with them can often derail someone elses post. So I try to limit my interaction with them when it will destroy someone elses post. Here the answer is to ignore them.
Now on your post, if  not enough people will ignore them  and it destroys your thread, then it is up to you and that little x button.
Thats how I see it.
Logical Man Added Aug 28, 2018 - 7:56pm
The problem with putting rules into place is the old 'unintended consequences' thing. The whole point of WB, I think, is the freedom to speak.
I think the best approach is to avoid descending to the same level, but respond to what is being said by pointing out errors.
After having a serious try at persuasion just stopping responding to abusive commenters is likely the best bet.
Not always easy!
Jeffry Gilbert Added Aug 28, 2018 - 8:10pm
Grandfather used to say "The reason there are so many assholes is because there are so few asswhippins'".
He also said "I you meet one asshole today he's probably an asshole, if you meet several assholes today maybe you should figure out who the asshole is".
FacePalm Added Aug 28, 2018 - 8:11pm
That's my strategy, for the most part; if someone wants to descend into invective or just general meanspiritedness, and doesn't respond well to either non-combative replies or any sane point, i just ignore them...usually after giving a warning, first.
IME, letting people rent space in your head while you react to their deliberate provocations just makes you their victim. 
Read some good advice, once: "Never react, always  respond."  Sometimes, IME, the best response of all is silence.  Taking time to reflect instead of react before replying is often a good strategy, too; i've caught myself writing an "in-kind" reaction a LOT of times, so most of the time, i'll just delete it and move on to another thread.  Maybe later, i'll respond if i think there's the tiniest chance of getting through.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Aug 28, 2018 - 8:12pm
Freedom ain't pretty. 
Ken Added Aug 28, 2018 - 8:53pm
I'm also wondering if we delete those posts, do those people get even more frustrated and take it out on other people in the real world?
James has it correct.  Most of these people are "keyboard warriors".  They are probably very unhappy people in real life, but the anonymity of the pseudonym behind an unknown location makes people far more brave.  It is a lot of what is coarsening the discourse in modern society.  Less interaction and more anonymous blustering.
If someone is so mentally unstable as to take something from a random website and act on it, they have a lot more problems than your post deletion. 
Not to mention, I suspect the regular abusers are quite used to it because most reasonable people won't put up with the crybaby attitude.  I take the attitude that if a post is abusive, does not contribute to the thread or tries to hijack the topic I remove it.  I want to keep the thread on topic.  Most of the topics I post here I think are quite historically relevant where there is a lot of misinformation or even intentional disinformation about and I want people to understand the truth of it.  For example my topic about the Article V Convention of states and how it works is critically important for people to understand in the current climate, and there is intentional disinformation out there about how it is a constitutional convention and could be a runaway convention.  I cannot have random people take it off topic and lose the entire point that I am making or those distributing the disinformation will win.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 28, 2018 - 8:58pm
Yeah, but Captn Gilbert, rightist ideas would instantly take the day if opponents were all eliminated or silenced, and no discouraging words spoken.  What Faced didn't say above was "...if there's the tiniest chance of getting through..." You'd call down the Wrath of Gawd, damning them if the tiniest chance they'd be soooo worried.  Guess what?  Maybe arrange to have them kidnapped by Aliens in your UFOs, Faced.
Lindsay Wheeler Added Aug 28, 2018 - 9:06pm
Some people are just assholes. 
Jeff Michka Added Aug 28, 2018 - 9:13pm
Don't be so hard on yourself, Lindsay, I don't think you're an asshole, just a jerk.  Feel better?  Being an asshole implies status you just don't have.  And now, how 'bout some bible verses, or Geezus words about turning the other cheek.
Cullen Kehoe Added Aug 28, 2018 - 9:25pm
It gets tricky. One man's troll is another lively commenter.

There was a recent post by an atheist that I might have gone overboard in commenting but I felt it was warranted at the time. 
Truly abusive posts though, just delete them. I think I know to whom the author is referring as I've seen vile, nasty comments by him. 
Jeff Michka Added Aug 28, 2018 - 9:37pm
Well, Cullen.... Name names...Riley was telling folks I would become a school shooter if "they" pissed me off.  Riley 'knows," of course.  Riley "knows" everything.  Like Riley knows some women and knows what women want.  Riley "knows' homeless people, and will tell you how lazy, sneaking and controlling homeless are for selfish and evil purposes. Don't you want to be responsible for a massacre?  Riley won't say you are responsible.  I'm a psychopath, afterall.  Riley, Mr. Facebook Gaslighter. 
Riley Brown Added Aug 28, 2018 - 9:38pm
James T, I don't know Alex but have seen Ryan in many forums.  I cut Ryan slack because he looks overly passionate to me and even though we're frequently not in agreement, as long as I don't insult him he generally seems to stick to the debate.  He certainly seems to believe what he says and does try to further the debate.
He may lie, I have no idea, but that's part of the fun of a forum, we all get to try and learn what makes other people tick.
The posters I wrote this forum about are those whose sole purpose in most forums seems to be to insult participants similarly to the way school children do the same, by saying absurd things.  I think they just want to provoke a response and would say your mother wears army boots if they thought it would do the trick.  Most of what they say has no connection to the forum they are in, or any real validity, it's just random insults repeated over and over again.  I sometimes think a misbehaving parrot could do just as good a job.
Riley Brown Added Aug 28, 2018 - 9:39pm
Leroy, good point about the ratio.  My forums have very few abusers but some of them are very prolific even when no one seems to pay attention to anything they say.
Riley Brown Added Aug 28, 2018 - 9:41pm
Jeffrey G, I suspect your Grandfather was quite right and the reason most abusers resort to forums is that they would get their butt kicked if they spoke up like that at home or in public.  On the internet they can pretend their tough without risk.
Riley Brown Added Aug 28, 2018 - 9:44pm
 Ken, what you say sounds very reasonable, especially about preventing forums from being taken off topic by childish behavior. 
I often wonder how some of these abusers can not see how childish they make themselves look, especially when the grown ups ignore their gibberish.   Then again some might be children who havn't developed that far.
Riley Brown Added Aug 28, 2018 - 9:46pm
Cullen, I too am tolerant of people who I think are just overly passionate about the topic.  Lots of people have hot buttons and find it hard to keep cool when talking to people who don't agree with their politics, or religion.  Often they jump to the conclusion that other posters are stupid which is a little short sighted.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 28, 2018 - 9:50pm
Gee, Riley, ol Rusted wanted to insult me, in one case, by calling me old.  Since I didn't go Facebook on him, he figured if he implied I was a child, I'd get angry.  You wrote the fabricated article, not me.  Did writing a phony article give you more 'self esteem" or make an impact?
TexasLynn Added Aug 28, 2018 - 9:55pm
This is not the first time this subject has been broached.  My response was to write an article that uses humor to directly call them out for the trolls they are.
A Writer Beat Fairy Tale
So obviously I followed Dino's advice, but the purpose was more to rattle his cage than deal with the abuse.
Riley B >> I tend to think they most prolific ones have mental issues...
I think there is little doubt of that.  One in particular seems to have bouts of clarity, but invariably slips back into slobbering profane abuse.
Ken >> A perfect example of why there is a red x at your disposal Riley
Exactly the point.
FacePalm >> i believe Autumn addressed this issue previously
She has made it pretty clear that she is going to err on the side of free speech.  I can't really disagree with her decision.
That said, I have to agree with Leroy that we need rid ourselves of the stigma of using that little red X.  Our goal should be to take control of our threads.  Offer warnings... but delete that crap.
There really should be an option where you can completely ban someone from commenting on your threads.
Flying Junior Added Aug 28, 2018 - 10:21pm
Well, when that cocksucker Messano goes off on me, sometimes I just self-delete because I feel ashamed to even talk to the guy.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 28, 2018 - 10:45pm
The Satanist and the Communist despise me.  That is high praise indeed, I am obliged. 
Travil can't refrain from demeaning what is good, because he loves what is evil.  It's been a war around since the beginning of time.  Travil never got the memo that  his side loses in the end. 
Ken nicely addressed the subject of this post. 
My method with the 14 liberals is to ruthlessly assault them.  They aren't interested in reasoning, and Solomon was right, "a rod for the back of a fool'.  Their corrupt habits and nearly complete lack of historical comprehension, make the liberals fit only to be laughed at and despised.  Ben Franklin learned when he was scoffed at.  The liberals on here don't often.  That's because Ben had morals and didn't use drugs, and the liberals on here don't and do. 
Chastisement is to make chaste.  Those are two words the liberals on here have never studied in their lives.  Words don't come easy for liberals.  Reason and logic escape them, their feelings enslave them.  A very sad plight, to be an animal and a drudge to one's beastly instincts.  A slavish and miserable existence. 
Personally, it seems to be very wise to delete comments containing profanity or lies.  Those add  nothing to a conversation and detract from it considerably.  While the argument will be that everyone deserves to see it, I disagree. There are tens of millions of Americans who are incapable of determining what is a lie and why profanity is wicked.  If grown adults haven't learned to avoid lying and avoid profanity, they have nothing fit worth listening to.  As such, it's a kindness to them, and to the readers to reject their ideas and spare the reader the garbage. 
WB's thirteen liberals are as follows.  Mufasa, FJ, Travil (pretends he's conservative but Satan is the head of the Democrat party), Michka, Stone, Aaron, Green, Opher, Bugs, Illogical Man, Bill H, Hunter, Gregory.  The figure alternates from 12-14.  If you write a nonsense article,  you have a good chance of getting 10 likes because these 13 liberals are liable to like it and adore it.  Whatever CNN is spewing and Google is indoctrinating people with, these 13 can be reliably counted upon to ardently parrot it. 
They will argue that they think for themselves, but they clearly don't.  The best way to determine a person's wisdom on politics is start to see how well they comprehend the past.  Not only do these 13 winners know very little about the past, but they laugh and ridicule the idea they actually be expected to learn the past before forming strong opinions on the present.  A fool does not know what they do not know, and they don't care either. 
Hope that helps Riley:). 
If I seem overly passionate, perhaps that is because the truth is a sword, and it can mercilessly penetrate to the core of a person.  'No man is hated more than he who tells the truth', said Plato.  Indeed, those who believe they will make friends and become popular for telling the truth are on a fools errand.  So, if the truth makes enemies anyway, then my method is not to start unnecessary scuffles, but when started, 'Cry Havoc, and let slip the dogs of war'. 
James Travil Added Aug 28, 2018 - 10:46pm
Wow, we agree on something for a change Flying Junior! Cheers! 
Anti-Limey Added Aug 28, 2018 - 11:02pm
Yes, Riley, my dear, my sugar, my red-on-the-noodle-like-a-dick-on-a-poodle sweetness and proud owner of a (waxed?) panty oyster, something should be done about the riff-raff turning our salon into a sewer!
Anti-Limey Added Aug 28, 2018 - 11:03pm
I'll give this one a "like", lol!
Ric Wells Added Aug 28, 2018 - 11:10pm
Riley when things get out of hand in the opinion of the person that authored the post I find it best to ignore and let them ramble on. In this way the perpetrators show their ignorance to the rest on the readers and eventually they will run out of the bombastic noise they cackle. In time they will go away rarely to darken your doorstep evermore. But patience is the key. The reasons for their rantings are the need for attention and a definite inferiority complex. IN the words of the Beatles "Let it Be."
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 28, 2018 - 11:13pm
reL"WB's thirteen liberals are as follows.  Mufasa, FJ, Travil (pretends he's conservative but Satan is the head of the Democrat party), Michka, Stone, Aaron, Green, Opher, Bugs, Illogical Man, Bill H, Hunter, Gregory.  "
It appears that Im at the top of the class! FJ, you are number 2!
You see Riley, even abusive posters can be fun.
James Travil Added Aug 28, 2018 - 11:46pm
Who the hell is "Bugs"? 
Flying Junior Added Aug 29, 2018 - 12:04am
Why does he always spell your name Musafa?  Is that a veiled insult?
You recently told me that I was going to hell because I don't believe that every word from the books of St. Paul is inspired by God.
Does that make you an asshole?
Bugs would have to be Wendy Bugliari, (spelling?) the Bug.  But if she truly is a bug, she seems like a busy bee to me, Flight of the Bumblebee type stuff!
James Travil Added Aug 29, 2018 - 12:07am
Oh "The Bug", I thought Ryan was going for some kind of Bugs Bunny thing, nevermind, lol! 
FacePalm Added Aug 29, 2018 - 12:08am
Who the hell is "Bugs"?
Pretty sure he means Wendy Bugliari, whose sign-off is often "Bugs."
That may be how you interpret the action of deleting an angry, epithet-filled, denigrating, demeaning, non-contributory or just plain mean-spirited post; me, i'm too old for that shit, and  i won't put up with it.  If you are willing, suit yourself; that's is, after all, what makes the world go 'roun'...different strokes for different folks; it's not a custom-fit world, but an off-the-rack one.
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 29, 2018 - 12:11am
re:"So everybody here wants to control what the other guy posts."
do you just make shit up?
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 29, 2018 - 12:15am
re:"Why does he always spell your name Musafa?  Is that a veiled insult?"
Its not very veiled. I think it is an expression of  his wisdom and virtue.
Ken Added Aug 29, 2018 - 12:17am
I often wonder how some of these abusers can not see how childish they make themselves look, especially when the grown ups ignore their gibberish.
Riley, it all depends on how you view free speech and communication.  Personally, from what I have seen here in the month or two I have been here, I would ban Michka.  Of course he would come back with some other identity because that is who he is.  He adds almost nothing to the discourse, and just makes childish insults to everyone who remotely disagrees with his viewpoint, which most of the time is absurdly easy to show how absurd it is. 
Free speech may be a constitutional right, where the government can't ban it, but private sites like this can.  I think Michka knows how childish he appears and does it on purpose, simply to be antagonistic to those he disagrees with.  I could be wrong and giving him too much credit, but I think he simply wishes to be abusive and discordant and it makes him feel strong and superior.  He seems to be a very insecure individual who makes himself feel better by belittling others.
There are others here who I strongly disagree with, but they at least try to be intelligent about it and create a cogent argument for why they may disagree.  There are some in that second group that are absolutely ideologues to their viewpoint, but while they will never be convinced that they may have an incorrect viewpoint, they aren't typically nasty.  DD - I would include you in that.  we have our disagreements, and the recent thread has gone a bit sharp, but while I know no matter what evidence I give you will never change your viewpoint, I also know you are no Michka.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 29, 2018 - 12:29am
Completely agree, Ken.  
Jeff seems to be oblivious to the well earned scorn he receives on a regular basis from nearly every one on WB, right and left. 
I’m persuaded if a vote were taken on banning him, I don’t know many who would oppose it, and plenty of sagacious minds who would wholeheartedly approve.  
Those who infect dialogue with vile filth, lies, and frequent nonsense aren’t fit to be listened to.
Ken Added Aug 29, 2018 - 12:53am
Lol Ryan, while you have been polite in a lot of recent general posts, you would probably be #2 from what I have seen over the past couple of months while here.  While you aren't the same as Michka, If it were my site I would have given you clear warning then likely banned you too.   Maybe you got a warning and toned it down, maybe running for School Board has opened your eyes and toned it down, but if I were running site a month ago I would have given you a 1 time warning then kicked your butt out for very similar antagonistic statements.
I don't want to compare you to Jeff, very different styles, but both seldom bring anything to the discussion other than antagonism.
Hell, I will answer the question you asked all the leftists.
NO I haven't read 5 biographies of the founders.  In fact, I don't believe I have ever read even 1. and whatever your other questions are, I probably would answer NO to them as well, I don't remember them off the top of my head even though I have seen them several times.
I don't need a biography.  I have read their actual words.  I get the point you are trying to make with the leftists, but you make it very poorly.  It isn't about what people write about them, especially if you read a biography of them after 1920 or so, it is about who they were and what they wrote themselves. They were quite clear in their beliefs.  The federalist and the anti-federalist papers explain the constitution and why it was framed as it was better than any "biography"
And yet, I am a constitutionalist and an originalist believing in the founders wanting individual liberty and limited government. 
Hell, the biography of whoever wrote it is going to be biased on his or her viewpoint.  I just read what they said and get where they were at.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 29, 2018 - 1:27am
That’s good you know the Founders and the spirit of what they wrote, Ken, but there are two other areas that are common in liberals and conservatives who oppose me.  Opposition to my ideas simply clues me into the behaviors liberals and others are into.
”Am I become your enemy because I tell you the truth”?
However, if you can think of three good reasons why an American voting should not read just five of the 204 Founders biographies, to be able to ascertain the spirit of what they said, I’m all ears.  If it sounds draconian and harsh to expect people to have read them, then what does that make the horrid decision making skills of those who haven’t?  I’d venture it’s far worse.  You’ve read the Federalist papers and other sources, few of the others who haven’t read the biographies have.
There is nothing I have advocated for that the Founders would not have approved of as well.  If anyone else on here models the ideas of the Founders closer than me, introduce them, if you would.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 29, 2018 - 2:10am
I you meet one asshole today he's probably an asshole, if you meet several assholes today maybe you should figure out who the asshole is
Gotta keep that.
Stone-Eater Added Aug 29, 2018 - 2:18am
That list of liberals is not complete if you don't precisely explain on every of these 12-14 why you think they're "liberals". I guess if you do that (in case you're capable of it) you'll find out that the term "liberal" is too general.
That's the problem with people like you using -isms and other popular terms: They are often being used in forums not to enter a discussion but simply to imply that one thinks the other is an asshole.
Nice swear words, so to say.
However I can imagine your response. Accepting homos, no god, porn and drugs (no beer for you) = liberal.
Wish that my world would present itself so simple.
Flying Junior Added Aug 29, 2018 - 2:33am
I'm just going to go on record here.
The term, "asshole," is nothing more than lazy speech.
Flying Junior Added Aug 29, 2018 - 2:37am
I know, I know.  I'm just as guilty.  But it's a stupid word.  The first time I ever even discussed it with anybody, I was 27 and I was talking to a Christian guy age 25.  I told him I had never met an asshole in my entire life.  Some fucking Christian!  He told me he didn't believe me.
I never did meet a person that shitty probably for the first thirty years of my life.  But it's still a copout.  It sounds pretty stupid when you think about it.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Aug 29, 2018 - 3:08am
Reflect the feeling. For example, X you stated y is a dog. Why do you believe the same, why is it important for us to know this, how does that knowledge advance WB, and would you want children and future adult citizens to emulate your behavior in public?  
Neil Lock Added Aug 29, 2018 - 4:47am
Riley: Ah, what memories you brought flooding back! Mostly of John G, the chief resident troll when I first came to WB about a year ago.
Personally, I prefer not to use the little x button unless I absolutely have to. I've only done it once, when two commenters on one of my threads got agin each other - and by the way, Jeff Michka was the (relatively) innocent party on that occasion! Short of the little x, I will usually ignore bad comments altogether, or may occasionally choose to respond harshly but without personal insults.
I think the system in place works reasonably well in terms of balancing free speech against having the conversation monopolized by the uncouth. And anyone who bothers to look at a comment thread in its full context can tell easily enough who is behaving reasonably and who is not.
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 29, 2018 - 5:19am
Riley - I always like your posts and note that you are quite skilled in the effective use of this medium. You are obviously well versed in the formula.
I have been on and off of here for a little over year I think and it has probably been pointed out that I, in contrast, am not versed in said formula. But I can still post here and there are at least some people interested. I am a proponent for free speech. All of it. I can say what I like here, same as anyone else. I like that aspect of WB.
IF you want free speech, abuse comes as a part of the package. This is one of those propositions that must be either all of the pie or none of the pie. The minute you call for moderation or censorship it is no longer free speech. I have never deleted anything on any of my threads. Why? They are just words and if someone says something asinine who does that reflect on: me or them?
Trolls are what they are. I generally ignore them, will sometimes try to engage them with humor, or when all else fails give them a good dose of their own and then revert to ignoring. Mostly these are just not worthy of even an acknowledgement
Morgoth Added Aug 29, 2018 - 7:08am
I generally let things go unless they cross my very specific rule of insulting my family or getting too personal with me.  I’ve only deleted one person for this in my entire time here.
I will delete posts if they look like someone made a duplicate and then I always tell them.  I’ve also combined posts to follow Autumn’s rule about not posting more than two consecutive comments.
Morgoth Added Aug 29, 2018 - 7:09am
I will also delete posts at the request of the poster.
FacePalm Added Aug 29, 2018 - 9:09am
I will also delete posts at the request of the poster.  
How about if someone else requests it?  It's too bad this site doesn't have a PM option.
After all, i discovered that if i go to my homepage and click on the "comments" tab, i can delete any post of mine that i wish to...so it wouldn't be necessary for any poster to request removal of his own post unless he was unaware of that option being available.
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 29, 2018 - 9:12am
The free market always comes up with the best solutions. There may be a way to answer some of the concerns and monetize the site at the same time! 
How 'bout this:  Set up a separate page for trolls only. If a troll offends often enough and there have been complaint from members then the troll is consequently banished to the trolls only page. You could set it up like cage fights! Pay per view! 
Ladies and gentlemen! Tonight....in this corner, weighing in at ten pounds of shit in a five pound bag....the pride of Silesia....Mad Man Michka!
And in our opposite corner.....weighing in at a dry sack of bones.....the scourge of the inland empire... Mashing Monk Messano!
this could work
Ryan Messano Added Aug 29, 2018 - 10:27am
You are no hypocrite, TBH, at least you don’t punish others for the things you do.
When you become virtuous, you’ll understand that the First Amendment was not created for ALL speech.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 29, 2018 - 10:28am
The reader can note that those who favor ALL speech have their own corrupt habits they are trying to justify.  They understand that if others are censored for profanity or vulgarity, their own comments are endangered, so their promoting ‘all speech’ being tolerated is simply selfish self preservation.
Leroy Added Aug 29, 2018 - 10:29am
Sounds familiar, TBH:
"Ladies and Gentlemen, in this corner we have Jenifer Frost a.k.a  Priestess, the Priestess of Sekhmet - Magistari Tempi, Siaon of the Ancients a.k.a. JenJen and in the other corner, we have Jeff "The Organizer" Michka in the battle of the century.  Bitting, browbeating, and punching below the belt are expected.  The tag teams of John G. and the Saint are welcomed, and anyone else who is willing to hurl insults of the highest order."
Riley Brown Added Aug 29, 2018 - 10:30am
Rick Wells, I admire your patience.
Morgoth Added Aug 29, 2018 - 10:31am
I let anyone post what they want though if they go off topic I will request they take it elsewhere.  I will not delete posts if others request it.
I think I can learn from many different people’s opinions even if I don’t agree with them.  Even if I find something offensive I will leave it (under the conditions I set above).
There is only one person here I refuse to let post on anything I write.  This person deleted a comment I spent time on and there was nothing offensive in it.
I avoid authors that delete others.  
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 29, 2018 - 10:33am
Ryan -  you make my case for me every time. you are nothing if not reliable. If you could drag yourself down off of that soapbox for a minute you might well come to realize that in an ideological sense you and I are not that far removed ( as much as it pains me to say it)
Free citizens do not require the approval of priggish scolds such as yourself. I mostly choose to just not engage with you, but to be fair in this case I have invited your scorn, so...
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 29, 2018 - 10:38am
This is not a personal attack Ryan. I don't know you personally, so that would be out of line. This is offered solely as a constructive criticism.
There are elements of your overall message which hold merit. I'll always give the devil his due. But you are one walking clusterfuck of a messenger. Different voices fall on different ears. Your methods do little to advance the ideals which you espouse. Mostly your screed only serves to bolster the stereotype that your ideological foes have painted for you. 
My only rational conclusion to explain you is that you must enjoy it. Maybe you're carrying some latent martyr complex. But hey, I'm no doctor....
Riley Brown Added Aug 29, 2018 - 10:40am
Flying and Ryan, obviously both of you are passionate but have opposing views.  I like to think there is a real benefit for both of you if you can learn what each other's opinions and attitudes are based on because both of you really do seem to want to be on the side that is moral and right, and enlighten others so they too will join you.
If that is your goal, it will always be easier to accomplish with honey than vinegar.  People you call names or publicly demean are far less likely to listen to what you say and consider the possibility you might be right, than people you engage with more respectful conversation.
The tone you use also influences readers who don't engage you, if it's hostile fewer will ask you questions, and your sphere of influence shrinks as a result.
I often face the same problem with other posters whose views I don't agree with, and feel I learn much more from them if I address them respectfully so they are encouraged to reply with insightful posts that I can learn from. 
Riley Brown Added Aug 29, 2018 - 10:42am
Dr Green, one old friend told me he tries to behave in a way that he'd not be ashamed of if his mom was present.  His mom is long dead but I still like the idea.
Riley Brown Added Aug 29, 2018 - 10:45am
Neil, I agree that most posters probably look over a few forums and have no trouble recognizing abusive posters because they do the same thing everywhere they post.
Avoiding them is like dodging land mines in a dog park.
Riley Brown Added Aug 29, 2018 - 10:52am
Burghal, you made me laugh. 
I like the idea of a separate place for the trolls but I don't think they would enjoy insulting each other, they want to feel powerful and mess up normal poster's forums.
Even if you could get them to go at each other in separate forums I don't think anyone would want to read them, most just repeat the same stuff over and over in every forum they post in.  You can see that in what's in this forum, no real thinking or creativity, nothing original, just childish name calling that looks like a broken record.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 29, 2018 - 11:30am
Correction, TBH, free citizens govern themselves and are not offended, as you are, by chastisement that makes chaste, without which, LIBERTY AND FREEDOM ARE IMPOSSIBLE!  While you do agree on a bit, what you do not agree on is that the Constitution was created for a moral and a religious people. Those weren’t my words, those were John Adams.  You try to make the Constitution approve of your choices, instead of making sure your choices are approved by the virtue and morality of the Constitution. Like most who choose folly, you try to use the vices of those who promote virtue, to justify your vices.
Its also an old method to criticize the style of the messenger rather than the substance.  No wise person does this. 
Also, the truth never will appeal to everyone.  It’s a waste of time to try and make it appealing.  Some will reject it until death.  Since that is a given, it must be delivered with force, otherwise it will be drowned out by the incessant, outraged voices of those who love error and ever reject truth.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 29, 2018 - 11:41am
Wow, seems I've gotten the ERWs pissed off by just existing.  of course, seems a little one sided.  The whiners never write anything deserving scorn.  Look at innocent Riley,, he writes a false tome, gets called on it, and the one calling him on it is "a school shooter, a troll..." of course, Riley also copped to being afraid of homeless people, then cries I wasn't on topic.  His crap article, trying to demonize homeless people, by creating a false picture of homeless people, is okay. But responding to his false narrative made me, in HIS words, crazy and dangerous.  Riley's original article, false as it was, he made worse by adding in comments about other "horrific" nonevents, that were supposed to lead people into being a social coward, as he was.  He didn't like my original comment in his post because it was completely opposite from his phony narrative, trying to beef up his rightist creds. Awwwwwwwwww.  I'm just so awful and crazy.  Gee. 
Ryan Messano Added Aug 29, 2018 - 11:57am
Riley, I appreciate your insight.  That said, history suggests that all viewpoints are not equally viable.  While women value relationships, communication, and affection, men value reason and logic, and facts don’t care about feelings.  Women often find this dangerous, but exciting.  For too long men have been emasculated and feminized, and when I act as a man should, the liberal soy boys on here wet their pants.  Even the conservative men oppose me, because they have been taught that you are supposed to be this milquetoast, inoffensive pathetic caricature of a man, and that that is respectable.  It’s cowardice and it’s not.  TBH substitutes Vice for manliness and conflates the two.  Being a man, TBH, is not about doing what one feels like doing.  It’s about self denial, self discipline, and self virtue.  ‘Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power’ Seneca.
While it is true, as Solomon said ‘A soft answer turneth away wrath’, it is also true that there is a time for courtesy and a time for righteous indignation.
What is right is not always popular, and what is popular is not always right.  As Cicero said, ‘I have long been of the opinion that unpopularity gained by doing what is right, is not unpopularity at all, but glory’!
There are certain ideas that no compromise can be made with.  On others, compromises are possible.  Knowing which is which is wisdom.  History is the greatest teacher on which is which, which is why Americas dangerous ignorance on history is quite dangerous.  We have tens of millions who think tolerating everything is perfectly wonderful, and discriminating between what is beneficial long term, and what is disastrous is unmitigated bigotry.  
Ryan Messano Added Aug 29, 2018 - 12:01pm
Riley, if you can confirm your birth gender, that would be greatly appreciated.  Your writing is feminine in nature, and, no offense intended, your picture does not conclusively confirm this.  
I know you have been extensively exposed to the liberal media and schools, and sympathize with you, while also agreeing with your astute analysis, far more often than not.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 29, 2018 - 12:04pm
HaHaHaHaHaHa...Yeah, that's it, Ryan, Riley's 'astute observations" are based on his gender,  Have you told women voters around you how silly they are.  Let me help...
Leroy Added Aug 29, 2018 - 12:52pm
"Riley, if you can confirm your birth gender, that would be greatly appreciated." 
The avatar is a picture of a woman who chooses a gender-neutral presence.  That is not speculation.  Whether Riley is this woman is another question.  Why is it relevant?
Ryan Messano Added Aug 29, 2018 - 1:21pm
Because, I deal with truth, LeRoy.  
The truth about ones birth gender is preferable to societal delusions about gender being malleable.
Morgoth Added Aug 29, 2018 - 2:49pm
Maybe it’s none of your damn business, Ryan.  Why is that your concern?  Who cares how Riley identifies?  Maybe Riley values privacy and doesn’t feel the need to share.
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 29, 2018 - 3:52pm
Ryan Messano, that wonder of science
grown in a petri dish
Intrepid enforcer of moral compliance
he rides with the sign of the fish
He guards and he guards against moral decline
stamping vice under his boot
Tending and pruning our societal vine
to purge all the unclean fruit
Thank you, dear Ryan, for saving our souls
with so much panache and class
But would you please crawl back into your hole
and put your nose up your own ass
Morgoth Added Aug 29, 2018 - 4:04pm
I think I just had an aneurysm I laughed so hard......
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 29, 2018 - 4:13pm
That....my friends, is how you deal with an abusive poster
Stone-Eater Added Aug 29, 2018 - 4:20pm
Der die Weisheit mit Löffeln gegessen
Taugt leider nun höchstens zum schnellsten Vergessen.
Maybe Ryboy secretly would like to be Rygirl or Rynbetweenie itself LOL
Benjamin Goldstein Added Aug 29, 2018 - 4:36pm
I just cuss them out.
George N Romey Added Aug 29, 2018 - 4:56pm
I left WB for awhile (not sure if I will stay long term) because I got tired of the tirades between imbeciles and trolls and those that can't see they should be ignored.  
Flying Junior Added Aug 29, 2018 - 5:24pm
So my point of view is not equal to yours?
Admit it.  Riley's avatar gets you a little bit excited.
Bill H. Added Aug 29, 2018 - 5:41pm
Ryan - I am now becoming totally convinced that it is YOU who are uncomfortable with your sexuality.
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 29, 2018 - 5:41pm
re" The term, "asshole," is nothing more than lazy speech."
My mother used to say Flying Asshole ( really, that is not meant anything withr respect to your name). She would then put her hands together and make this flapping its wing motion.
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 29, 2018 - 5:48pm
re". But you are one walking clusterfuck of a messenger."
LOL long time
Neil Lock Added Aug 29, 2018 - 7:15pm
TBH: Nice lines.
Riley Brown Added Aug 29, 2018 - 7:54pm
Ryan, history is right, not all viewpoints are equally viable, but here in America and especially in online forums, everyone has a right to express their opinion and even people who are wrong do things like vote.  Their opinions still count and you should be more interested in enlightening them than making them dislike people "like you".
I have always believed that for every poster with a point of view there are thousands or perhaps even millions of others with the same point of view that I don't hear from.  There are people who like to live in ignorance and pretend the parts of reality they don't like don't exist, or are too stupid to be important, but I believe all opinions teach us something. 
I like hearing from people who respectfully explain their motivations and positions to me, and occasionally enlighten me with facts I didn't previously know.  Sometimes they even change my opinion, but those who call me names...  never get the chance.
I must admit I find you preoccupation with my genitalia amusing, especially all the hilarious comments which make me laugh.  Would you be more comfortable if I changed my avatar to a flag, a fish, a boat, or something abstract so you wouldn't be so tormented? 
I do promise you that you have nothing to worry about, you are definitely not my type.
Riley Brown Added Aug 29, 2018 - 7:56pm
George, thank you, your belief that they should to be ignored seems to be the prevalent opinion.
Morgoth Added Aug 29, 2018 - 8:19pm
It’s usually the repressed ones that are the freaks.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 29, 2018 - 8:40pm
 'Course, Riley, being a good social media warrior, will never admit when they're in error.  And ol Geo is back.  What a surprise, eh?  Next up ol perfect priestess JenJen.  There's just not enough love of Russia or fear of the Deep State here.  Baaater up!
Jeff Michka Added Aug 29, 2018 - 8:40pm
You know us "school shooters," don't you, Kelly?
Flying Junior Added Aug 29, 2018 - 9:24pm
All kidding aside what you say makes good sense.  I have not forgotten that you engaged me in the past even when my posting was course or inflammatory.  It makes a good deal of sense to try to learn from people with viewpoints different than one's own.
Recently I have had more than two good conversations with men of very opposing ideologies to my own.  One learns very little in an echo chamber.  Finding common values and interests can be rewarding.
Flying Junior Added Aug 29, 2018 - 9:26pm
I thought that maybe your new job didn't leave you with enough time for the WB.  I hope it is working out for you.
James Travil Added Aug 29, 2018 - 9:48pm
That's what I thought about George also FJ. George or as Jeff calls him Geo. Not quite as crafty a nickname as Doomsday Book but what is? 
Ryan Messano Added Aug 29, 2018 - 10:19pm
Jeffrey: ‘Man is the measure of all things’
Except man isn’t the measure of all things.  The more you learn of history, the more you will decrease your hubris and increase your humility.
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 29, 2018 - 10:25pm
re:"The more you learn of history, the more you will decrease your hubris and increase your humility."
LOL, Then you better get to readin dude!
Ryan Messano Added Aug 29, 2018 - 10:28pm
In honor of TBH:
TBH, a full blown libertine,
Thinks it is worthwhile to become a Philistine.
He uses profanity quite often, 
and uses spirits for his pain to soften.  
He scorns at wisdom and prudence,
and loves and exalts folly and impudence.
Like the pagans of old, he worships the senses, 
Around his moral choices he has few scruples or fences.
He revels in uplifting what Long term leads to sorrow, 
And allows evil into his soul deeply to burrow.
‘All that glitters is not gold’said a sage, 
TBH sneers ‘The old sentiment is not of this age’
Hopefully he turns from his path to destruction and doom, 
Or his soul will not find peace in his final room.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 29, 2018 - 10:38pm
I find it difficult to ascertain the reason for your reluctance to disclose your birth gender.  The only logical reason appears to me to be that you yourself doubt yourself, which is healthy.  But, nature is a stern teacher, and while one may question their birth gender, nature will continue to slap them upside their head with common sense until one allows her dictates to rule ones reason.  Do not dislike me, I am merely doing the bidding of the Creator, who loves all enough to summon them to divine truths.
There is a place for respect, but facts don’t care about feelings.
Im curious about your avatar schizophrenically parting ways with your writing style, which is decidedly feminine.
Rather than evil surmising, I prefer to ask questions.  If you were confident about your decisions, you should have nothing to hide.  If you are not confident about a gender you may have chosen, then may I suggest to you that your conscience, which is the greatest advisor you will ever have, is urgently trying to tell you something, and that you would be well advised to listen to it?
Morgoth Added Aug 29, 2018 - 10:54pm
Ryan, I’m a humble mutha chucka.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 29, 2018 - 10:55pm
Remember, we see as we are, not as others are, Mustafa.  
Hubris is thinking one knows when one is slightly acquainted with the totality of relevant facts.
Methinks thou shouldest not throw stones, when thy modest veneer covers a crystal abode.
Flying Junior Added Aug 29, 2018 - 10:55pm
Go on...  Take a walk on the wild side!
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 29, 2018 - 11:01pm
Hey Ryan, 
re:" The only logical reason appears to me to be that you yourself doubt yourself,"
Thats because you are an idiot.
I wont tell you my gender either.  Do you think that I doubt myself?
I have told you many times before,   It is none of your business.
Anti-Limey Added Aug 29, 2018 - 11:01pm
Riley, you're totally PC, as in Petulant Cunt. The fact that you posted this proves that beyond any doubt. It is comically obvious by now what you are, so I no longer feel the need to badger you about questions that I know the answers to. One is either a man or a woman; you are a woman, and a very smug, sanctimonious and ugly one at that. I've said before that you remind me of just about every snotty little bitch I've ever encountered; please keep holding your nose up, so I can fart in your face better! Regarding "abusive posters", I also have ideas on what to do with people like you, and they almost invariably involve ravens, seagulls, wild dogs, venomous reptiles and insects, catapults, incendiaries, sheer cliffs, inbred hillbilly rapists, and hungry crocodiles, lol! Don't worry though, you scummy little bitch, I have other and better things to do. Just thought I'd drop by, sugar! Live and let live, I say!
Riley Brown Added Aug 29, 2018 - 11:07pm
Ryan, the internet and even some posters in this forum use pseudonyms and avatars that are intentionally obviously not really who they really are, but those don't seem to leave your confused. 
I hate to see you so up tight and want to assure you that I am quite content with my life and promise not to make any attempts to date you or convert you, (whatever that might mean).
Feel free to judge my posts by the content and ideas in them, without fear of any other agenda.  Your sexuality is no concern of mine, and I don't presume to judge you by yours, or even care if your real identity and gender don't match your pseudonym or avatar. 
It's a forum, I read what you write, and nothing more.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 29, 2018 - 11:58pm
You are the only one on WB who anyone has any doubts about your gender.  There is no doubt about anyone else, though some of the liberal men are plenty emotional, just like women.  They are in their he-motions.  
I am not uptight for seeking to ascertain your birth gender.  If you can’t tell the truth about that obvious fact, what can you tell the truth about?
Rather, you are uptight for being perturbed by a simple and innocent request.  
Ive learned that truth fears nothing, but deception thrives in the shadows.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 12:14am
Buzz off, you gossipy and interfering busybody.
Ken Added Aug 30, 2018 - 12:21am
Just curious, ryan, others.  What does gender matter?  Not someone anyone will ever meet.  Michael B.'s comment about appearance is subjective at best, cruel in general and serves no purpose.
I have known smart women, stupid women, smart men, stupid men.  Who cares?  you can judge on the merits of the argument and the discussion.  If the topic is something you are disinterested in, you can skip and read other stuff.  Many  online are not identifiably male or female with avatars that may just be cartoons and screen names that are as well.
You may be speaking to guys or girls, but who cares?  It is the thought that matters.  I am not sure what has ticked off Michka so much that he seems to think is incorrect and no explanation, and I can't say as I have read every article here, but Jeff is Jeff, and I take him with a grain of salt.  Doesn't mean he isn't right in this circumstance, and maybe OP should post a retraction of whatever that article was.
To make this a gender based discussion simply because of a picture that is ambiguous is stupid though.
How about we vacate irrelevant discussion and focus on the actual points?
Hell when I first saw posts, I thought was likely a teenager as talked a lot about dungeons and dragons and various aspects.  My image may or may not be wrong as well, but I never let that dominate my thoughts and considered what was said.  That should be all that is important, not subjecting to the preconception based on age, gender, etc.
TexasLynn Added Aug 30, 2018 - 12:24am
If I'm correct, Ryan, this subject has been broached before on a different thread. Though I did not ask directly, I did propose that RBs attitudes were not indicative of the general LBGT community. I further asserted that RB's avatar is no more him/her than my avatar is me... being a young, petite, black woman. :)
I'm content judging by content... 
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 30, 2018 - 12:44am
re:"  What does gender matter? "
I suppose it matters if you plan to have children together or expect sexual relations, but on a blog discussion about abusive posters it has no relevance, just as what history books you have read, what religion you practice, how many times youve been laid, or who you are dating.
These are classical diversionary tactics by people who are incapable of rational thought and discussion. Once they know something personal, then they can sidetrack to that issue instead of the topic of discussion. It adds to their list of red herrings and strawmen, the lowest form of logical fallacies, heavily utilized by Ryan.  
I suspect that since the post was about abusive posters he was sure it was about him, so he  had to contribute his wisdom and virtue.
It is really good to have him back in full form. I was afraid he lost interest in us. Reading Burghal Hidaghe was worth everbit of having to skip over Ryan's nonsense to find a real gem. Its not everyday you get to have such fun with an arrogant idiot. 
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 30, 2018 - 12:46am
"Buzz off, you gossipy and interfering busybody."
LOL, dang you make me laugh.
Ken Added Aug 30, 2018 - 12:54am
*hijacking topic*
how many times youve been laid, or who you are dating
well damn mustafa, I guess I won't be asking you out for a date anytime soon!
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 12:58am
Ah, Mufasa, the Mahometan Madman.  Your usual passive aggressive ‘Wisdom’.  Few do less work to talk more than you.  If spewing opinions on topics you don’t bother researching were an art form, you’d be a regular Da Vinci.  
We did go over this, TexasLynn, but RB has been elusive on the topic in both pictures and writings. RB sees zero wrong with the degenerate worldview of the left, and thinks being no judgemental is a lovely virtue, when in reality it is apathy, willful ignorance, and cowardice.  It’s sad, because I’m a supporter of most of what RB says, but a fly in the ointment spoils it all, and no identifiable gender is more like a dead frog in the ointment.
Ken, if one can’t be confident and state ones birth gender, there can’t be any good reasons for it.  I’m tired of the stupid PC culture that even created this whole conversation, and it’s distressing to see pussyfooting conservatives pusillanimously bowing to the gender idols of the left.
Twenty years ago, we never had this conversation, but today it’s chic to pretend you are not what you were born as, or to obscure ones gender.  Disgusting.  
Anti-Limey Added Aug 30, 2018 - 1:03am
@ Ken - "Michael B.'s comment about appearance is subjective at best, cruel in general and serves no purpose."
I LOOOOVE it! Thank you, Ken! I'm too smitten by your compliment to reply in a negative manner! LOOOOL! I'm going to print that one out, and maybe even frame it!
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 1:05am
For the readers information, a poster who got his panties in a bunch and left WB forever, whose name rhymes with Dave Volek, wrote a post about how I was determined to put him and others in concentration camps.  This disturbing fairytale quite perturbed poor Dave, and he wrote an SOS post.  I followed with a post saying it was nonsense, and this bumbling dimwit Mufasa asked at least ten times who I was referring too, and is just now learning two months later.
Everyone on WB but this simpleton Mufasa knew who I was referring too.  Yet, not only does Mufasa have a hard time comprehending basic information, he insists on beating people to death with obvious questions.
He is a MOTO man,  Master Of The Obvious.
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 30, 2018 - 2:34am
Well at least I wasnt added to the ranks of the 14 liberals. That would be bad.
Ryan, you are a lot of things. I mean A LOT.....it would be impolitic to place the whole list here. It would seem patently obvious that being a poet is not one of them. But thanks for joining us on Pet a Monster... you've been a good sport. Michael B? Would you tell our contestant what he's won?
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 30, 2018 - 2:43am
your preoccupation with how one is hung
would reveal a certain shortcoming
Were Shakespeare alive he would cut out your tongue
and skip away, pleasantly humming
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 30, 2018 - 2:50am
you'll pardon me for being a little wary of those donning robes and fronting their piety. A good number of these end up being exposed as child molesters......but thats another topic.
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 30, 2018 - 7:54am
re"t.  I followed with a post saying it was nonsense, and this bumbling dimwit Mufasa asked at least ten times who I was referring too, and is just now learning two months later."
You lie
mutliple times in a sentence fragment, quite regularly, something strange for a person of virtue  and wisdom.
And you continue this lie. You made incorrect allegations and I asked you to support them. But instead of supporting these very strong allegations, you demanded that I prove to you which 5 biographies I read.  What? Look a squirrel!
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 30, 2018 - 8:03am
here is a quote
RM:"We already saw one WB regular get triggered and write a post alleging that those of us who tell the truth are aiming to put folks in concentration camps."
So, I asked you to support this serious allegation. that was returned by singing and dancing and pointing at squirrels.
You are a chronic liar.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 9:34am
You see how insane this Mufasa character is?
This dimwit is shown how own stupidity publicly, and still mutters that I’m a liar.  
A total reprobate.  
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 9:34am
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 9:36am
Not only does he lie, but he burdens his memory to remember his lies.  
Like most liars, he sees in others what he is himself.  
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 9:39am
Let’s rehash.  
Dave Volek did a post alleging, without naming me, that conservatives want to put him and liberals in concentration camps.  
I responded with a post containing the quote that Mufasa expertly posted above, ‘We already saw one WB regular get triggered and write a post alleging that those of us who tell the truth are aiming to put folks in concentration camps.", referring to Dave Volek.
Every one on WB knew who I was referring to, but not Mufasa, who insisted on asking who was doing that for days.  Total nonsense.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 9:41am
You can’t even comprehend the truth that is days old, Mufasa, you are really lost when it comes to history that is centuries old.
It will be interesting to see how your reasoning perverts my remarks this time.  It’s like you have a gremlin running around in your head that constantly mangles the factual input you receive, and spits out incoherent nonsense.
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 30, 2018 - 9:53am
Ryan, seems you got your panties in a wad.
It is one of the advantages of using facts. They help arguments. I dont just make shit up. 
And  as for 
"Twenty years ago, we never had this conversation, "
Thats true, I cant even imagine asking someones gender back then.
In my family, we were taught manners. 
We were also taught to mind our own business.
TexasLynn,  I would be very interested to hear an intelligent conservative's viewpoint on this.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 10:01am
Unbelievable.  Confronted with your deluded reasoning, and bad reading comprehension, you shamelessly proceed to level more epithets, and carry on to engage in more mischief.  Just like your incorrigible Prophet.  A very bad allergy to truth, and the self awareness of a dullard.  
Still signs his name at the end of every comment.  I suppose that’s good, or how else would Stone and the thirteen other liberals be able to ascertain that it was your comment after all.  If only you put the sane energy into learning the truth and promoting it, as you do to thinking up nonsense and defending it, you’d be a force to reckon with.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 10:03am
Profanity is the sign of a weak argent or a weak mind, and in Mufasas case, it’s both.  
Its the pitiful sign of a weak mind trying to assert itself.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 10:03am
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 10:05am
Like the serpent Muhammad was, who you admire, you deviously lie, question, query, and lie in the shadows, waiting for your moment to strike, you wicked viper.  
Morgoth Added Aug 30, 2018 - 10:17am
Let’s rehash:
Ryan wants to violate Riley’s privacy for some warped reason.
Ryan, I did like the poem but seriously....you need a woman in your life to bleed off these impulses.
Or a man.  I don’t judge.
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 30, 2018 - 10:25am
re"Like the serpent Muhammad was, who you admire, you deviously lie, question, query, and lie in the shadows, waiting for your moment to strike, you wicked viper."
are you flirting with me?
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 10:34am
Jeffrey: The champion of all vice, since virtue is a stranger with him.
Asking ones birth gender is not an unusual request.
Sex, drugs, porn, gambling, and entertainment may domesticate you, but it’s not the solution to injustice. 
Riley Brown Added Aug 30, 2018 - 10:38am
Ryan I am not uptight about my gender, that's all in your own imagination.  If you scour all my posts you will never find any evidence that any aspect of my gender or gender identity has been a source of concern for me.
I've also never lied about my gender, that too is in your own imagination.  Re-read all the posts I've written and I guarantee you won't find one where I actually state my gender.  I think my gender is not relevant to the forums I participate in.
I'm not calling  your a liar, or claiming your made that up, but rather believe that you tend to prejudge many aspects of stereotypes that you believe in almost religiously.  You've even indicated that was true.  You've obviously concluded that I fit one of those stereotypes and in your mind, "we're all the same".  I strongly disagree.
I know that both the things you just presumed are true about me, are 100% wrong.  Even if it's true that A usually correlates with B, that obviously isn't always true.
I've seen you do this to other posters you disagree with and think doing so detracts from your overall credibility quite a bit by similarly calling into question the viability of other things you say with equal conviction.  Other forum participants see you blow it by incorrectly stereotyping others, and logically wonder if other assertions you make are equally flawed.
I often see you made fun of and criticized and usually it's prompted by statements you make about others that are based on stereotypes from your own imagination.  They often start out by criticizing those mistakes first, and then imply your other arguments are equally flawed.
I think everyone stereotypes to some degree, but when in forums I suggest posters focus on the message, not the person.
Morgoth Added Aug 30, 2018 - 10:41am
Silly Ryan.  I am damn near a vegetarian, I haven’t drank to an excess in probably 20 years and now don’t drink at all, I haven’t smoked pot in over 20 years, I am a happily married man with two boys.
I’m too old for porn to be a thing and I never gamble.
Don’t stereotype me.  That’s a losing proposition for you.
Morgoth Added Aug 30, 2018 - 10:43am
But let’s say Riley is a transgender or a lesbian.  Or a bisexual.  
Her politics seem to match yours.  Would any of the above make a difference?
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 10:56am
Au contraire, if your birth gender didn’t bother you at all, you’d have no problem disclosing it.  You’ve written many posts on the usual leftist psychobabble of homosexual marriage and how gender can be fluid, so it’s intersting to see you are obviously struggling with who you are.  When it’s hard to know definite truth, you are really going to have issues with other truths.  When ones sexuality is perverted, virtually every other reasoning mechanism follows suit.  That explains the 14 WB liberals.  Not one of them is a fan of keeping sex in marriage between a man and a woman.  As a result, they are all the slaves of their wild imaginations.  
If you refuse to state obvious and non controversial truths about yourself, how can you be trusted to tell any other truths, much less subtle truths.  I’m honest, and have my picture ahd gender posted, so I’m leading by example.  Few others have real pictures posted.  I wonder why.  If you don’t want people knowing who you are on here, how do you interact with real people in real life?  For the liberals, it has to be hard.  That’s why they are into drugs, sex, and entertainment, because they don’t know what loving relationships with good people are like.  Sad.
I haven’t stereo typed you.  Your writing is feminine, I just wanted to confirm it.  There are generalities that are true, but I don’t hold everyone under the same umbrella.  While a stereo type may make it easier to predict behavior, they are certainly not uniform and there are exceptions.  
Mare uou afraid of being made fun of and criticized?  I’m not.  ‘Do you have enemies?  Good.  That means you’ve stood up for something once in your life’
Winston Churchill.
Most on here are afraid of being criticized or censured, including conservatives.  So, they think not being criticized is a good thing, when often, it’s simply because they know the truth and won’t say it, or are apathetic and too lazy or cowardly to figure the truth out.  
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 30, 2018 - 10:57am
re:"Asking ones birth gender is not an unusual request."

LOL, where do you come up with this stuff?
You are hilarious
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 11:01am
You have definitely not contained sex in marriage for the past twenty years, Jeffrey, so don’t pretend you have.  Your attitudes give your behaviors away.  
Nothing wrong with having a bad past, we all have something, but there is a lot wrong with past wrongdoing not resulting in current detestation of our past folly.
If Riley is transgender, lesbian, or bi Sexual, Riley is a slave to Rileys animal instincts and will never find truth and peace until Riley is liberated.
Riley Brown Added Aug 30, 2018 - 11:01am
Ken, I agree, in most of these forums the gender of the writer is of no consequence unless of course the topic has a sexual aspect that some might think can be more competently dressed by people of a specific gender.  I do suppose someone could try to increase their credibility in some forums by claiming their gender makes them more qualified, just like experience or a specific education might, but I've never claimed my sexuality made me any more credible.
If I want to know which toys give the most intensive orgasms, I would want to hear from participants with experience, and gender would be important to me.
When Ryan tells me he is so distracted by the ambiguity of my gender that it spoils his ability to process what I've written in this forum,  it tells me he has issues.   I am a little befuddled by his focus on me, since he doesn't seem to equally confused by other participants whose avatars and pseudonyms are even more ambitious.  He also doesn't seem to have a problem with other male or female posters who do display a specific gender, even though I can't think of a good reason for him to presume the gender they display is really their own.
Riley Brown Added Aug 30, 2018 - 11:03am
Texas, you are a lovely black woman, don't let anyone tell you you're not!
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 30, 2018 - 11:03am
Well hello Bob, my name is Alice, now that weve chatted for a few minutes can you tell me please,
what is your birth gender?
Hey Ryan, try putting that on your questionaire for new Insurance policies!
Riley Brown Added Aug 30, 2018 - 11:14am
Mustafa, now that I've had a person say they can't even evaluate a post from me until they know all about my gender, tell me I have sexual issues, I think I've hear it all.
I'd sure like to know how their interpretation of my posts would change if I was to tell them I was a male or female.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 11:30am
It’s wuote astounding, Riley, how easily you shift to talk of debauchery and how difficult you find it to state what gender you rolled into the world as.  Confused!!
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 11:30am
Morgoth Added Aug 30, 2018 - 11:32am
@Ryan Messano:
”You have definitely not contained sex in marriage for the past twenty years, Jeffrey, so don’t pretend you have.  Your attitudes give your behaviors away.”
Never presume to tell me what I have or have not done, Ryan.  I have been faithful to my wife all the years we’ve been together, before and after marriage.  Have I felt attraction to other women during this time?  Sure.  I’m human.  Have I ever acted on it?  No, nor will I ever.  I could never hurt my wife in such a fashion nor could I hurt my children.
I have my own code of ethics that I stick to.  You may not like my politics, my viewpoints or me.  That is irrelevant.  You do not me on a personal basis.
“Nothing wrong with having a bad past, we all have something, but there is a lot wrong with past wrongdoing not resulting in current detestation of our past folly.”
I have regrets.  Period.  It’s my past.
“If Riley is transgender, lesbian, or bi Sexual, Riley is a slave to Rileys animal instincts and will never find truth and peace until Riley is liberated.”
Yup, there’s that condescension and intolerance that we expect.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 11:33am
Does anyone have any legitimate questions about the gender of anyone else on here?
Neither do I.  
Morgoth Added Aug 30, 2018 - 11:33am
*You do not know me on a personal basis.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 11:33am
And for those who don’t question, stop boasting of your indifference, like it’s a virtue.  It’s apathy.  
Morgoth Added Aug 30, 2018 - 11:51am
It’s more like we don’t care because it doesn’t matter.
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 30, 2018 - 11:56am
"I'd sure like to know how their interpretation of my posts would change if I was to tell them I was a male or female."
I really dont know, but I have an idea. At first he pestered me asking if I was  muslim and my response was the same, it is none of your business.  Partially as a response  I  posted an article on Halide Edip to inform the ignorant about the historical Mustafa Kemal partly to deal with this silly assumption that a red herring named Mustafa Kemal must be a muslim. I may be, but it surely doesnt follow for anyone who can actually think. But this has not stopped his accusations.
Then he demanded to know if i had read 5 biographies of the founders and my response was essentially the same. It is not relevant; respond to what I write, I am not going demand that you tell us the advanced degrees that you have.  After a continual assault over the 5 biographies I finally succumbed and told him.
" I, Mustafa, do solemny swear  that I have read 5 biographies of the founders"
Do you think he was satisfied? No, then he wanted me to
"name them". I suspect if I name them then he will criticize my selection. And then start to test my comprehension.  Now, what was the topic of that post? Oh I forgot, it wasnt on "the best 5 biographies of the founders"   
I suspect the reason for this is he really has a very limited amount of tools to use so every interaction he must find a way to drive it to something that he is comfortable with, like the old testament. Possibly he has read some history but I suspect most of it is US history. He has clearly never had to hold his own in an environment with a dialectical standard. 
The main thing for some of us to come to terms with is that Ryan cares not about any form of truth. A dialogue with him is essentially impossible. He speaks and you should listen. And if you point out his errors in both facts and logic  it does not slow him down he just moves to the next list of errors and fallacies.   He is a chronic liar, that I can demonstrate.
As I said, my problem with him is that he so fun, but interacting with him can destroy someones thread.  So there he has the advantage.
Ignoring him will work much better than trying to reason with him. 
He is immune to it.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 12:18pm
Not really, Mustafa, though that is a tolerable rendition of the events as they happened.  Your writing gives no indication that you have read and understood the Founders of America.  If you had, your attitudes would be quite different.  Rather than write the biographies all over again, I simply address the root of your critical thinking difficulties, which is a lack of knowledge.  When confronted with it,  you throw a conniption. 
You definitely have Muslim sympathies, which is natural, because you aren't acquainted with an objective overview of Islam, and you also lack insight into American history.  There is nothing wrong with not knowing.  Your problem is  you are content with not knowing, and insist that the conclusions you have drawn with your deficient knowledge must be accepted unconditionally. If they are not, you get frustrated and walk away. 
Then you jump to the whopper of a conclusion that your being asked to be familiar with basic foundational truths of the topics you love to comment on means, 'Ryan cares not about any form of truth'.  Yup, that's the apathetic mind at work.  Defiantly seeking to protect it's lazy thinking and scorning any who expose them. 
I suggest you sit down and study the word 'apathy' for an hour with a dictionary and a thesaurus.  Look up all the words associated with it. Write down the definitions, use them in a sentence.  When you understand basic truths better, you'll understand yourself better, and then you'll be able to agree on truths more, rather than kicking up tremendous temper tantrums. 
Not only are you content with your own apathy and ignorance, but you have the audacity to call those who expose you on it 'liars', and seek to demean and deride them.  That's not how wise people act.  But you seem intent on proving yourself a fool. 
Riley Brown Added Aug 30, 2018 - 12:21pm
Ryan, I really do want to know how you think and don't want to write you off and not become aware of things you know that I don't so please don't take this the wrong way.
You have indicated it's necessary for you to know my birth gender before you can evaluate my posts and I'd like to know more just in case I'm unfairly denying you information that really is useful.
Please give me examples and explain how your interpretation of things I've written in this forum would be different for the gender options you think are important in this forum's context.
You answer might help several others in this forum understand other things you say that they didn't previously think make any sense.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 12:47pm
Jeffrey, I'm talking about abstaining from masturbation and porn in the twenty years.  I said all sex outside of marriage, not just adultery.  Look how deceitful you are.
Don't take it personally, it has nothing to do with you.  Truth doesn't care about your feelings. 
If you have regrets, WONDERFUL!  It means you still have a conscience.  Some people don't have one anymore.
Expecting virtue is not condescension and intolerance.  It is the highest form of love.  But you have to love virtue in yourself first, to love it in others.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 12:49pm
You are the only one on here whose birth gender is ambiguous.  I'd like to know.  It's difficult to relate to what insists on being mysterious.  I don't  know why you go to such lengths to obscure it.  Are you ashamed of it?
Spartacus Added Aug 30, 2018 - 12:52pm
I have considered using the x button but so far haven't because I think it helps other participants get a full picture of an abusive poster's personality.
Riley, I do not understand your dilemma and why you ignore the most obvious solution.
Everyone knows what shit smells like . . . do we really need more of it just to be sure shit smells like shit??
All media outlets censor -- not only other's content but also themselves.  I censor myself on occasion.  If you publish content, you are a media outlet and can censor to form a narrative that you choose.  Granted, censoring does limit your audience.
I have chosen one person to censor from all my articles.  I do not read their posts I just delete them.  I allow everyone else to post whatever they want. . . but just that one person I delete.  I do not prejudice their words, I prejudice THEM.  I think that is a fair policy not only for myself but for others that read my content.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 1:30pm
You are a creation of God, even if you err, that will be so.
Just because a twenty dollar bill is crumpled, does not mean it’s worth less. 
‘Failure is only the opportunity to begin again, more intelligently’
I wouldn’t ask if I didn’t care. 
‘Even in our sleep, pain which cannot forget
falls drop by drop upon the heart
until, in our own despair, against our will,
comes wisdom through the awful grace of God.’
Jeff Michka Added Aug 30, 2018 - 2:56pm
Your gender might well be in question if you view your YouTube video of you getting kicked out of that city council meeting.  Your voice is fem, you looked too longingly at those escorting you out.  That lil hat of yours, too.  So this, by Ryan own criteria mean???  I'm not a big Riley fan, but  his gender has noting to do with it.You are very vocal and damning of anyone having a normal life, marriage or family, defaming and libeling them with charges of somehow being unfaithful to their families and spouses.  Obvious "I'm so jealous" stuff, you having no other human or loving relationships with anything.  It's pretty obvious.  No, you don't care about anyone other than yourself, so perhaps, knowing like another ultra-extreme religious patriot said, "If anyone tries homosexual sex, it will be so good we'll "lose" them to it."  Obviously, you want to find out.  Just ask Riley or someone else for a date or just sex.  Will save wading through your bullshit.  Maybe ask a security guard at a city council meeting for a date.  What happened to Vinny and your turds in wedlock?
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 3:04pm
Not a chance.  It’s rich you comment on anyone else publicly, when you do nothing of note publicly at all.  
When you have a video of you at a city hall, then talk.  I don’t want to hear your nonsense, when you haven’t got the courage to stand up publicly for what you believe in.
Also, we see your perversion. You can’t keep your vile mind out of your assessments.  No wonder why every one on here avoids you like the plague.  I seriously question if you haven’t seared your conscience already, you wicked heathen.  
It’s truly amazing.  You resemble in action and appearance ‘Wild Bill’ from the movie, ‘The Green Mile’. You’re every bit as evil as him.  You also project your own lonely existence onto others.   You are evil, and hate what is good, you wicked devil.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 30, 2018 - 3:14pm
You don't know me or what "I've stood up for,"  Bald clown And I 've never been thrown out of a public meeting.  You got tossed from that meeting because you were just being the typical Messianic asshole.  I'm sorry you didn't get beaten or tasered.  We  only have YOUR word on your supposed "virtue," certainly no proof of it.  You're talking about movie characters  in films I've never seen so your name calling is lost on me, worthless.  Better go ask Vinny for a cuddle.  And I love being evil, smart ass.  Like you live for gawd, I live for evil, of course.  You love making light of Riley and calling his gender into question when nobody was asking about it or cared, but you and Michael B.  Is Michael B your new campaign manager?
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 3:20pm
Listen, you cowardly devil.  Take your pathetic nonsense to a city council meeting and they will slap you in jail so fast it will make that corrupt head of yours spin.  
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 3:21pm
You can’t speak in public, you have the manners of a jailbird.  No respectable person would ever take you seriously.  
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 3:28pm
This is why you terrorize people on the internet, because you have no truth, you can’t have any friends in real life, if you treat people like you do here, and your own conscience is your enemy.  That’s the worst existence possible.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 30, 2018 - 3:29pm
Funny, governors and legislatures have had no problem with me.  You want to engage in an "internet pissing match" ("My online presence is bigger than your, so THERE!")  Seems that's a WB rightist thing.  You get your account pulled on FACEBOOK , Slimebag?   All your "likes' and followers on FB go to zero?  Do enlighten us.   You aren't a respectable person, Ryan.  You barely qualify as human, let alone respectable.  You really need a cuddle from your husband, Vinny/
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 3:49pm
This entire post was intended for you, you miserable cretin.  Let that sink in.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 3:57pm
This is the stupidity we conservatives have to deal with.  FB and Google are lying traitors, pretending they are open platforms, while they censor speech they don’t like.  Mindless drones like Jeff, who don’t understand anything much beyond their filthy imaginations will crow over conservatives being censored.  
Most Americans don’t think Communist censorship is great, but that wicked degenerate Jeff does.  What a vile snake you are.  
Morgoth Added Aug 30, 2018 - 4:28pm
@Ryan Messano:
”Jeffrey, I'm talking about abstaining from masturbation and porn in the twenty years.  I said all sex outside of marriage, not just adultery.  Look how deceitful you are.”
Oh, FFS.
Nothing deceitful about it.  I have not cheated on my wife...ever.  Nor will I...ever.  Period.  End of story.  Done, not deceitful.

“Don't take it personally, it has nothing to do with you.  Truth doesn't care about your feelings.”
No, Ryan, what I take personally is your assumption that you know anything about me.  You do not nor can you ever.
“If you have regrets, WONDERFUL!  It means you still have a conscience.  Some people don't have one anymore.”
I’ve always had a conscience.  That has nothing to do with believing in God or my political affiliation.
“Expecting virtue is not condescension and intolerance.  It is the highest form of love.  But you have to love virtue in yourself first, to love it in others.”
So, you are into self-love?  Makes sense.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 4:52pm
Very deceitful.  Masturbation and porn are evil too. Even if you’re married.  Many of you walk around quite happy, because you have zero standards.  Ignorance is bliss.
Everything I said about you was true.  
Your conscience is from God, whether you acknowledge it or not.   
You cant give what you don’t have.
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 30, 2018 - 4:59pm
The number of his innacurate accusations about me is astounding. At the beginning, like you,  I tried to enlighten him as to his errors but he is not having it. You can correct Ryan's factual errors until the end of time, it will not stop him. He will simply move to the next  one.
After awhile he will simply start over and repeat the same old one as if he was never there before.
He also likes to make demands, kind of like he is our school marm, and if you deny to answer in response he will go
"ah ha!, so that can only mean ... some stupid thing"
As for how any of these issues he brings up are relevant to the post, that is never of a concern to him.
What most of us fail to comprehend, I think because he is singularly unique this way, is that he has virtually no desire to communicate or understand anything.  He is truly remarkable. 
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 5:07pm
The Mahometan sympathizing Madman.
One of the biggest dimwits on here, and is unaware of it.  
Liberalism is a mental disorder.  You simply can’t think straight.  Your own thinking is so confused, you simply cannot comprejend truth, and love lies and abhor truth.  Very scary.  That’s what drugs and sex will do to a mind.  Quite frightening.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 5:10pm
You don’t know the basics, Mustafa.  We discuss America, you have no idea about even basic information on the Founders, then you double down and stupidly say you don’t need to know it.  Wise people go and read and don’t open their big mouths unless they know what they are talking about.  But it’s your pride.  You think you know when you don’t, and so you have to be humbled publicly, which is a messy business.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 5:12pm
Knowing your type, you are probably furiously reading biographies now, so you can pretend you always knew it, and get back on here and say I was falsely accusing you.  Lol, you are a sly snake.
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 30, 2018 - 5:13pm
You two are Still at it? I told you! Should be selling tickets. 
Jeff Michka Added Aug 30, 2018 - 5:20pm
Ryan, best take your crap and gather in voters before your attitudes about women voters you've expressed on WB become open public knowledge in Vallejo.  I'm sure the people you count on voting for you are all white men, women, in your words, incapable of making a sound political decision.  Perhaps, it will just surface in them not voting for you, once they read your attached warning label.  You ran from an actual debate with a Muslim, having to be replaced by a Woman, you just "disappeared."  Didn't come back until kicked off Facebook (Hence your anger about Facebook, all misplaced.) You took your shit to a city council meeting,, and they just threw your ass out, Ryan.  Once again, do yourself a favor and cuddle Vinny.  I just can't "comprejend' your meanings, Ryan.  Please explain.  And you tell 'em, Willy.  Everyone will forget your women hating stuff, since your ex wears Hillary like pants suits...All she can afford.  Is someone holding out alimony?
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 5:20pm
It’s three on one, which is very unfair odds.  May the reader decide for whom. 
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 30, 2018 - 5:35pm
That’s what drugs and sex will do to a mind.  Quite frightening.
Dude - you would benefit from drugs. I'm thinking thorazine (they still make that?)
As far as the sex part goes.....Ryan, if you had only stuck to your own species. The symptoms you present are not at all unusual for those who have braved an encounter with beings of Vulva Centauri. They are, uh....what is that term? Hermaphroditic ? Thats correct isnt it? Yeah, characteristics of both sexes. So one is never really certain. Did you get laid or did they. In your case I think its safe to assume the latter
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 30, 2018 - 5:38pm
Riley - thanks by the way for providing the entertainment this week. Mighty big of you to step in in Opher's absence
Jeff Michka Added Aug 30, 2018 - 5:40pm
I "terrorize" people on the internet, Messianic?  Is that terrorism what gets your Facedbook accounts suspended?  People getting tired of your lying "rebukes" and falsehoods you prep as "truth"?  I really don't care if Riley tried to make this some referendum on me.  His call, and if that's the reason, it was because he got caught and called out for his "fabrications."  I know lying has become the stock and trade of rightists, wanting to cash in on Trumpism, but maybe you should show a bit more restraint.  I know you won't, and you can scream at me all you want, doesn't bother me, whizbang.  Riley and the gaslighters and flying monkeys don't bother meey figure I'd just run away.  Since they can't eradicate "leftist ideas," they want to eradicate leftists.  Gee, I'm soooo intimidated.  I'll leave because you want me too.  I'll go off and become an Xtain.  Maybe some bible verses now, Messianic, your "politics" are showing.  Bible verses will help deflect that view, I'm sure.
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 30, 2018 - 5:46pm
For the record Mich I do Not want to eliminate leftists. If there were none around and I tried to describe them? No one would believe it. They'd be in the ranks of Unicorns. No one proves the arguments against the left better than themselves. 
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 30, 2018 - 5:48pm
Ryan is a case so over the top I sometimes wonder if he isnt a plant by the left just to make their opposition look bad. 
Flying Junior Added Aug 30, 2018 - 5:50pm
Jimmy Swaggart preached against the dangers of pornography.
Next thing you know the poor bastard was crawling around on his hands and knees at the cathouse howlin' like a coyote while his pretty wife was waiting for him at home.
Riley Brown Added Aug 30, 2018 - 7:14pm
William S, yes most media outlets do censor their output for lots of reasons, including liability and in an attempt to preserve their own credibility but I'm not sure our tiny forums benefit from meeting the same standards. 
I often think our news media also does a lot of censoring for political reasons that have nothing to do with liability and everything to do with presenting us a biased picture that they hope will make us vote like they want us to.
Riley Brown Added Aug 30, 2018 - 7:16pm
Flying, I think lots of very self ridiculous people honestly believe they do not need to comply with the rules the rest of us comply with because they are above them.
Others are hypocritical charlatans who only claim to be religious.
Riley Brown Added Aug 30, 2018 - 7:23pm
Ryan, can you please define pornography so we know what you are objecting to so strongly?
Does it include all erotic art? 
Is graphic nudity inherently porn?
Are the sex acts we see on television porn?
Does the prohibition also extend to sex toys?
Is kinky sex allowed in our own private bedroom?
Are there any limits to the what we can do to each other during sex?
Please explain why any of the above is not allowed if that is the case.
Thank you for enlightening us.
Riley Brown Added Aug 30, 2018 - 7:26pm
Burghal, it's refreshing to see a sense of humor when so many around you seem so lost.
I never worry that you're going to go postal, if anything perhaps you might make a few readers fall off their bar stools laughing.
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 30, 2018 - 7:50pm
re" We discuss America, you have no idea about even basic information on the Founders, then you double down and stupidly say you don’t need to know it.  "
To begin, "we" do not necessarily discuss America. Stone Eater discusses Africa and Switzerland, Ian and Neil England,  EXPAT  Tailand, Mustafa  Turkey, Russia, and the ME,  and MEFOBILLS where the blue men live,  and FJ in California, among a few others.
Moreover you lie, yet again:
"you double down and stupidly say you don’t need to know it."
Kindly support your assertion please.
Jeff Michka Added Aug 30, 2018 - 7:53pm
Rather amusing Domesday book.  You feel "left out?" OK, you are just an egotistical white noise source and general empty handed jerkoff.  Feel included now?  Riley is stroking you, and Ryan wonders why I'm not agreeing with his Riley assessments.  Riley got assessed on his bullshit article on "How we treat strangers"  Apparently just badly.  Riley made a bet on he could fool rightists with his anti-homeless narrative, which was simply silly, but good rightist clickbait.  Awww, poor Ryan feels "outnumbered."  He needs some female voters to defend him.  This seems much like an ELP tune:  "Welcome back, my friends, to the show from our rear ends.  And ol Riley seems safe from homeless people.  Aren't you afraid of "school shooters?"  Gee, "See it, report it,' right, Riley?   This is over for me.  Ryan wants anger and chaos to hide behind.  Kiss Vinny for me, Ryan.   Plus, this make Domesday book too happy.
Leroy Added Aug 30, 2018 - 8:49pm
I rest my case.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Aug 30, 2018 - 9:07pm
people honestly believe they do not need to comply with the rules the rest of us comply with because they are above them.
That's one way of looking at it and suggests just a tad of statism on your part.
Another way of looking at it is there are 160,000 PAGES of laws in DUHmerica, more than 400 federal agencies, scores more state and local agencies and the ever present self appointed coppers called snitches or rats that all add up to way too many rules to "comply" with because some asshole says so.
In short Riley every goddamn one of us is above them. Everyone. 
Morgoth Added Aug 30, 2018 - 9:07pm
@Mustafa Kemal
I'm thinking of writing on article where the headline is just PORN.  Do you think that would keep Ryan away?
Morgoth Added Aug 30, 2018 - 9:10pm
@Riley Brown
Ryan will probably tell you the only Godly sex is the missionary, lights off, shirts on.  Probably something akin to what you would see on "The Handmaid's Tale."
Ryan Messano Added Aug 30, 2018 - 10:07pm
Michka is the poster child for why drugs are bad.
Keep talking Michka, there is nothing I can say against drugs that can have more of an impact on people than them hearing you.  
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 30, 2018 - 10:15pm
re"Do you think that would keep Ryan away?"
LOL, if his attention to a post  about " how to respond to abusive posters" is any indication, I  suspect an article with that title would attract him like a fly to shit
Morgoth Added Aug 30, 2018 - 10:23pm
Aaaaawwww, crap...LOL
I sense a new article...
James Travil Added Aug 30, 2018 - 10:39pm
"I suspect an article with that title would attract him like a fly to shit".
I should write it then, Lying Ryan knows I won't tolerate his useless ass in my comments. 
EXPAT Added Aug 30, 2018 - 11:17pm
What is the best way to respond to abusive posters?
by Riley Brown Aug 28, 2018 - 10:42am
This article became the longest trail of crap I have seen since contracting Dysentery far away from a toilet!
It is a list of not only abusive posters, but a list of irrational response to society!
Every commenter can clearly see the faults and crude abuse of the OTHER guy, but see's himself as above the fray!
"You are an unthinking abuser, and it is my duty to expose you."
To answer your question Riley, the best way to respond to abusive posters, in this instance, is to delete this whole Article and comments!
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 30, 2018 - 11:19pm
Funny, after that lovely poem of Burghal's i was thinking  a poetry contest might be fun.
There once was a man from Vallejo
who reasoned just like a pendejo
As the crowd watched him sing 
the  remarkable thing
 played the piano  with his messano
EXPAT Added Aug 30, 2018 - 11:19pm
delete this whole SICK Article and comments!
Morgoth Added Aug 30, 2018 - 11:20pm
It’s worth keeping the article for the poetry.
James Travil Added Aug 30, 2018 - 11:21pm
Delete yourself Expat! 
EXPAT Added Aug 30, 2018 - 11:31pm
Devil Boy could not post a comment without abuse. A sick response from a sick Satanist.
SEE, IT IS EASIER TO BE ABUSIVE, THAN LOGICAL! That is why it is so popular
EXPAT Added Aug 30, 2018 - 11:37pm
JK. I found nothing redeeming here. Better it was never written.
James Travil Added Aug 30, 2018 - 11:39pm
I'm a mirror for you and your abuse Expat! Don't like what you see? Fix yourself! 
EXPAT Added Aug 31, 2018 - 12:11am
Good advice Devil Boy. I will go back to ignoring your stupid comments!
Ryan Messano Added Aug 31, 2018 - 12:34am
Michka is the only one lying repeatedly on this thread.  Riley, kindly block him.  Many of us do it.  He’s implacable and incapable of reason.  Like a rabid dog, he is quite useless, and deserves to be shut down.  Blocking him is good for him, good for WB, and good for America.  His type only understands force.  They only understand with their animal brain.
Anti-Limey Added Aug 31, 2018 - 1:49am
Hmmm...what to say about this? I agree with EXPAT, in that this post and everything associated with it should have been strangled at birth, lol. Regarding the general topic of trolls and other assholes, one can either fight fire with more fire or take the "extinction" route. What I've learned from the get-go around here and everywhere else in the world is that one should be prepared to handle the heat, the taste, and SMELL from whatever they're dishing out.
However, people are funny and fucked-up. Some people here started off as bitter and implacable enemies, but wound up being ok, and vice-versa. For some reason, I find it comically ironic that the two people that first greeted me here on WB were Ryan Messano and Stone-Eater, who are among my primary "frenemies", lol.
Anyway, I thought I'd fuck with Riley a bit; truth be told, she's a very intelligent, reasonable, and sensible (and maybe even sensitive, lol) person, but her posting something like this reminded me of the foul lips (both pairs) of "Marylin French" and her labia-licking yet ironically cock-liking and cum-absorbing maw and ass. And, I agree with many others here; Bitchka, I mean Michka, should die sooner than later. I've pointed out to that slimy, disgusting creature NUMEROUS times that rabies is incurable, and that I'd be MORE than happy to put him out of his, and everyone else's misery. Riley lambasted me about my "lack of contributions to this forum", but she obviously was momentarily confused, lol.
Johnny Fever Added Aug 31, 2018 - 2:51am
Seeing you define insults as “childish” and “annoying” I’d argue you’re not being abused.  Not to mention the fact words on a computer screen are rather harmless.  I’m far more concerned about what we should do about those that wish to silence others on the grounds someone has been abused.  Any grounds for that matter. 
Ryan Messano Added Aug 31, 2018 - 6:29am
TBH, ‘Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power’ Seneca.
You can’t be a true conservative and advocate for drugs and sex outside of marriage.  You may be very likeable with these behaviors, which you are, but in the end, like Elvis, you don’t like yourself.  It doesn’t matter how many friends you have when you die, if your conscience isn’t one of them.  Conversely, it doesn’t matter how many enemies you have when you die, if your conscience is your friend.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 31, 2018 - 6:31am
TBH, there is really nothing I’m saying that America’s Founders would not have said either.  Contemporary culture has so corrupted your thinking that virtue seems obscene to you, and obscenity seems virtuous.  
Ryan Messano Added Aug 31, 2018 - 6:36am
I just love when a liberal with zero standards, HELLO FJ, tries to use the shortcomings of a fallen Christian to justify themselves. Ummm, Swaggarts failings earned him universal censure from the church.  In the liberal world, his behavior is encouraged.  Stop using Christians standards to judge them with, when the church does it themselves, and why don’t you find yourself some standards.  Liberals think having no standards is a wonderful standard.  Cowardly and apathetic.
I HAVE NEVER HEARD ONE LIBERAL ON WB USE THE THREE WORDS: WISDOM, VIRTUE, OR APATHY.  Why is this?  First, it’s because few of them even know the words.  Second, it’s because none of them possess the former two, and all of them suffer from the latter.  
Flying Junior Added Aug 31, 2018 - 6:37am
Are you married?
Have you ever had sex or masturbated?
Ryan Messano Added Aug 31, 2018 - 6:47am
I agree with your comment to William, 100%, Riley.  The news media is largely liberal, and they try to influence our thoughts.  I wrote letters to the newspaper, and they take out whole sentences without telling the readers what they have done.  Very dishonest.  They also refuse to publish letters with a conservative viewpoint, however courteous they may be written.  
Our 14 liberal friends are woefully unaware of conservative news sources.  Not one liberal on WB has ever read the following seven + conservative news sites for just two months of their entire lives.  They refuse to tell you where they get their news from, because they don’t want to be laughed at for being suckers.  But, dadgum, if they still don’t keep right on watching and reading CBS, NBC, CNN, ABC, MSNBC, PBS, NPR, Huffington Post, New York Slimes, Washington Compost, and getting duped by liberal Google, FB, and Twitter.
The conservative news sites, that liberals are nearly totally unaware of, and their leftist puppet masters strive to keep them unaware of are:
Drudge Report
Daily Wire
National Review
American Thinker
The Federalist
Washington Times
Washington Examiner
Conservative TreeHouse.   
Ryan Messano Added Aug 31, 2018 - 7:11am
Yes, Riley, pornography is anything that is lascivious, written or in pictures, designed to titillate.  It’s especially that which shows humans in acts that belong only in the bedroom between a married couple of the opposite sex, and is not for the viewing pleasure of a single human on earth besides the participants.  This was the norm in our society before that degenerate Kinsey came out with his debauched sex Report in 1948.  I highly recommend you read ‘Sexual Sabotage’ which details the pernicious effect this perverse Report had on America.    I also recommend you do not research this or anything with Google, which is designed to cleverly spread disqualifying disinformation about nearly every source of good in the world. Google research on the Kinsey Report will often state that he was a perfectly wonderful man and that only prudes and misleading science attack him.  The naive and gullible are easily duped by Google.
Pornography includes all erotic art, graphic nudity, and all nudity for that matter.  Sex acts on television are porn too.  As for sex toys, if one contains sex in marriage between a man and a woman, there will be no need for sex toys, as the intense satisfaction of conjugal pairings will render them totally unnecessary.  
What happens between a man and his wife in their bedroom is their business, however, the excretory and reproductive system were never designed to interact with each other.  That said, contraception should still be illegal in America. The entire purpose of the sex drive was for marriage and children.  It was not for selfish satisfaction.  All sexual acts done to subvert having children are illicit.  Spacing and the rhythm method are illicit as well.   The American people never voted to legalize porn, contraception, abortion, or homosexuality.  A rogue SCOTUS, going off the garbage science of the Kinsey Report, exceeded its Constitutional authority and illicitly legalized contraception in 1965, with ‘Griswold Vs. Connecticut’, legalized porn in 1969 with ‘Stanley vs. Georgia’, legalized abortion in 1973 with ‘Roe Vs. Wade’, legalized homosexuality with 2003’s, ‘Lawrence Vs. Texas’, and legalized homosexual marriage with 2015’s ‘Obergefell vs. Hodges’.  As the Declaration of Independence states, our laws come from nature and nature’s God, and those laws explicitly forbid contraception, porn, abortion, homosexuality, and homosexual marriage.  There is a great book that goes along with this by the Founder of Kellogg’s Cereal company called ‘Plain Facts for Old and Young’.  Google research will attack the book, but as usual, Google is clueless.  The writer was wrong about promoting eugenics, and sex in marriage only for procreation, but was profoundly insightful on everything else.  
You are welcome.
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 31, 2018 - 7:15am
Well Ryan... I must say that I am thoroughly heartened by your concern for my mental well being. It's kind of like Ethiopians worrying about whether or not Syrians are getting a balanced diet.
I am not, do not pretend to and have no desire to be a "true" conservative. If that means even remotely resembling you I'd rather be known as an anarchist ( a tag some have hung 'round my neck )
Ryan Messano Added Aug 31, 2018 - 7:19am
Mufasa, lying again, while questioning my veracity, LOOK THAT WORD UP!!
It never ends.  All you mentioned do discuss America.  Not rocket science.  
You’ve never demonstrated the slightest familiarity with the writings of Americas Founders, and yet refuse to answer any queries on your grasp of them.  The natural and likely conclusion is you feel they are unimportant.  If they were important, you’d have no problem discussing them.  If you actually knew something about them, you wouldn’t be reluctant to discuss them.  As it stands you weary WB with your deceitful sophistry.  You are too proud to admit you don’t know.  But, you’ve already shown that, and are making yourself look foolish with your repetitive attempts to salvage your wounded pride by making pretensions yo knowledge you don’t have.  You’ll never gain wisdom until you learn honesty and humility.
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 31, 2018 - 7:22am
also I could give two shits for being likable or having friends. I have few friends, I need few friends. Most people who claim to be your friends are not. Most people on this planet are always angling for something.  Dogs make good friends. They may shit on the floor and leave it for you to clean, but seldom if ever do they shit on you.
It would be easy to conclude that you have none. I might have thought that your right hand was your best friend, but scrolling through this above I have come to realize that you couldnt even jerk off without an instruction manual. Even then you'd probably need assistance. Good luck with that :) Have a SUPER nice day
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 31, 2018 - 7:35am
I like myself just fine. I prefer my own company above any other. I don't need to be concerned with what I am plotting because I'm in on the plan. 
The medical community says I am non-compliant. I contend that I am self medicating with better results. My people are still negotiating with their people. This may take a while.
Now you, on the other hand....I haven't seen this kind of self loathing since Bona Drag. 
Ryan Messano Added Aug 31, 2018 - 7:43am
FJ, No, never married, and on the latter two, I’ll say this, just as it is stated on the author of ‘Amazing Grace’, John Newtons grave stone, ‘once a libertine’, but by the rich mercy of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, preserved, restored, and pardoned’. 
A bone, once broken, heals twice as strong.  Failure is only the opportunity to begin again, more intelligently.  I’ve never met a man who conclusively was shown never to have masturbated, though I know many who overcame the habit in their youth, and have gone 30-50 years without it.  They are the wisest men alive I know today.  It’s never too late to be what we should have been.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 31, 2018 - 7:48am
TBH: Until your assessment of yourself aligns with reality, your assessment of others cannot help but be similarly found wanting.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 31, 2018 - 7:50am
TBH: If you were happy and at peace, you’d have no need for drugs, or promiscuous sex.  You seek to fill a void that none but your Creator can fill.  But you are too proud to hear that, and think that is gibberish.  
He who loses his life shall gain it, and he who gains his life shall lose it.
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 31, 2018 - 7:58am
your creator has filled you with something. I can smell it from here.
Ok, I'm done here. There will be plenty of other opportunities to beat you down somewhere else. Or ignore you
Ryan Messano Added Aug 31, 2018 - 8:02am
You were given Rights and Fredoms by men who were devoted to God.  How dare you spit on your inheritance, and fail to at least preserve those rights for those coming after you?  Shame on you! 
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 31, 2018 - 8:06am
re"Mufasa, lying again, "
As usual you project.
Just above I pointed out one of your most recent lies and you could not defend against the acccusation. I repeat, it is in the latter part of:
" We discuss America, you have no idea about even basic information on the Founders, then you double down and stupidly say you don’t need to know it.  "
That is a lie.
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 31, 2018 - 8:10am
"I’ve never met a man who conclusively was shown never to have masturbated, "
How does one do that? 
Is there a test?
Is that the question that comes after 
"what is your birth gender?"
You must be really fun at parties, LOL.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 31, 2018 - 8:15am
It’s hard interacting with you fanatics, Mustafa, because you simply cannot reason.  You may not have overtly said what was inferred to you, but it is easily inferred from your words.  
No one on WB who has read all you have said would ever think that you were acquainted with the Founders words, or were interested in them. I’m just connecting the dots for you, that is not a lie.  When you are caught in your deceitfulness you claim others are lying.
Mufasa, you are really fun at parties.  That’s why you are a halfwit.  That is your problem.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 31, 2018 - 8:17am
It’s easy to find out who has masturbated or not.  Ones attitudes and behavior easily gives it away.  Liberals are massive mastirbators, more often than not.  It goes along with their stupid thinking, they want everything now and they don’t want to work for it.
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 31, 2018 - 8:42am
"then you double down and stupidly say you don’t need to know it.  "
"You may not have overtly said what was inferred to you, but it is easily inferred from your words. "
Oh, I see. You inferred it.
So, since you didnt actually intend  to say something incorrect it is not a lie. Im starting to understand.
Leroy Added Aug 31, 2018 - 8:50am
This thread has climaxed.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 31, 2018 - 9:01am
Straining at gnats and swallowing camels as usual, Mufasa.  You quibble over trifles, and ignore mountains.  Your priorities are badly skewed.  
It makes no difference if you say you don’t need to know the Founders or act as if you don’t.  The end result is still the same.  Your words, in effect, do say you don’t need to know the Founders, so why you are bothered by the assertion I have no idea. What if you put all this time and energy you put into defending yourself against an assertion that you don’t care about America’s Founders, which even a fool can decipher you don’t, into actually learning about them? Do you think that might have more tangible results for you?  You are obviously bothered by the assertion.  Why? It’s because it’s true.  Rather than do something about it, you seek to attack the messenger, wasting every ones time.  Either you can be corrected and learn, or you can’t, which is it?  Fools can’t be, the wise can, which are you?
Riley Brown Added Aug 31, 2018 - 10:37am
Ryan thank you for answering my questions about pornography and clarifying all those other aspects of your beliefs about which sexual things are sinful.  After hearing all that I am not surprised you are not married, but am surprised that you have never even masturbated.  You are truly a unique man who holds himself to very high standards.  You are a poster boy example of Puritanical sexual values and I am glad I don't have to live by your rules.
I hope you realize how rare you are, almost everyone you will ever meet, including most married couples, see nothing wrong with masturbation and regularly have sex in one form or another just for fun.  Most do not consider anything they see on public TV to be porn, even if they consider some of the more graphic sex scenes a little too much.
I think your lack of experience with sex and marriage shows when  you speculate about how a married couple have no need for anything other than vanilla sex for the purpose of procreation.  If you had more sexual experience you'd quickly realize that most married couples have far more sex for fun than for procreation and there are a lot of fun ways and toys they can and do use so that procreation is not the only satisfying result for the participants. 
Fun is why seniors still have sex, and it's why couples that can't have children for medical reasons have sex.
In my humble opinion God would not have made it feel so good if he or she didn't want us to enjoy it as often as we can.
Riley Brown Added Aug 31, 2018 - 10:41am
Johnny, I agree written words in obscure forums can't hurt me or anyone else, but I still consider people whose usual contribution to forums is limited to insults, to be abusive posters. 
I think abusive and harmful, are quite different, and insulting posts are irritating and distracting.
Riley Brown Added Aug 31, 2018 - 10:45am
Expat, yes this forum has turned into one of the most entertaining forums I've read.
I do find it amusing how many posters think their abusive posts are acceptable, when in fact the are no better than those posted by people they are complaining about.
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 31, 2018 - 11:02am
 Good luck in politics, you may be successful. They dont have very high standards. As our president so aptly said
"Good people dont go into politics"
Well, back to work, work in a Socratic dialectical environment.  That will be a breath of fresh air. Been making a living at it for over 40 years. You wouldnt like it, nonsense is not highly regarded there.
Riley Brown Added Aug 31, 2018 - 11:40am
Mustafa,  I generally think politics has become a dirty game that is generally impossible to do well at if you have a good understanding of economics and want to play fair.
Those that do the best these days are generally not "nice people", Boy Scouts don't stand a chance, and the best I can do is try to help thugs with my best interest in mind, get elected.
If they tell the truth they will never get elected, Americans regularly vote for the liar they think will give THEM the best deal and don't care about the rest of the country, or even what's left for future generations.  Americans vote for someone who can't possibly deliver what they promise and then want to trade them in for another liar after they fail to deliver the impossible.  More and more the poor masses throw their votes behind anyone who promises to take money from those rich bastards and give it to them.
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 31, 2018 - 2:27pm
I agree with everything you say. Im just trying to imagine what the consequences of Ryan's psychosis may be on his political career; it may not hurt at all, could even help given the right authoritarian, morality free,  milieu.
But the current state of politics you describe is the very reason i am on WB, to  find some way of communicating.   Real communication instead of dualing monologues.
I have watched you for some time and appreciate your desire to communicate, your methods of doing so, and the subjects of your posts. But i like to have fun too, and I am especially fond of bullies. Liars not so much. 
Riley Brown Added Aug 31, 2018 - 4:48pm
Mustafa, I too enjoy playing with bullies and BS'ers, but TRY to exercise restraint because I think that's the best way for me to enlighten people.  That being said I don't always control my emotions that well and often add more sarcasm than I should, given my goals.
I respect Ryan's commitment to his religious principals but at the same time would NEVER want to live in a world where he was in control.  I also feel sorry for him if indeed he's never experienced the joy that comes from great sex or the happiness that can come from a committed relationship.  I would make a lousy Puritan.
Ryan Messano Added Aug 31, 2018 - 6:02pm
Deal with your own psychosis, you pedophile prophet admiring degenerate, Mustafa.
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 31, 2018 - 6:21pm
Always charming. <clap-clap-clap> Ryan you are entertaining. You are a treasure trove of material. I create some pretty sick fictional characters....I mean really depraved. Kind of stuff that would probably make your eyeballs bleed. And on my best days  I could not come up with a "you". 
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 31, 2018 - 6:32pm
Riley, your respect for Ryans commitment to his religious principles is admirable. Me, I tangle with him because of his fallacious reasoning, dishonesty and mean spiritedness. Im not sure what religious principles support those behaviours.  And definitely I would not want to live anywhere where he has any power over me. Talk about Hell.
I have tried to deal with him rationally, without adhominem, and on the subject matter of posts, but it is impossible.  The only thing he has learned from me is the name of a few fallacies, which then simply become new tools in his fallacious toolbox. I too try to avoid sarcasm, and I am pretty successful, but in extreme cases it certainly has its allure.  Im especially fond of the sardonic humour of Ambrose Bierce.
You may be a lousy Puritan  but I suspect a good citizen and neighbor.  I just celebrated my 31st wedding anniversary with my   spouse.  I normally dont speak of such things, but we have a perfect history of both fidelity and some pretty fine sex. Im with you there. Whoo ha. 
So, did you learn anything regarding the subject of your post?
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 31, 2018 - 6:39pm
re"  I have been with at least 80 courtesans,"
You dog! you have me beat by 80!
Leroy Added Aug 31, 2018 - 7:16pm
'And on my best days  I could not come up with a "you".'
And now you have a new character for your next installment.
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 31, 2018 - 7:20pm
Master Burghal Hidaghe,
re:" And on my best days  I could not come up with a "you". "
 I hope that this experience will help you develop your craft.
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 31, 2018 - 8:26pm
These faux puritan types rear their ugly heads with regularity. The AM airwaves are polluted with them on Sunday mornings. They have an unhealthy obsession with what everyone else is doing with their genitals. This is a common malady among those who have yet to discover their own, still struggling through that anal stage. Sadly, there are those who never break free..... I fear our boy Ryan falls in this category. Great news though! Huge breakthrough earlier this year. The worlds first penis transplant. Now all ya gotta do is find a donor.  Maybe Hillary Clinton's? I hear she's not using hers anymore.
The Burghal Hidage Added Aug 31, 2018 - 8:28pm
Hmm.....maybe FrankenPhallus for the next installment. Too weird? 
Nah! Nothing is too weird anymore now, is it?
Flying Junior Added Aug 31, 2018 - 8:49pm
So I guess one good way to deal with abusive or insulting posters is to get them to talk about their dick.  Change the topic to something that they love.
Mustafa Kemal Added Aug 31, 2018 - 9:59pm
Im actually somewhat impressed.
While Ive known a few people that have visited with prostitutes, or whores, or putas, I have never known anyone to visit a courtesan. Maybe its a class thing.
Morgoth Added Sep 1, 2018 - 1:55am
Ya walk away for a few minutes, come back, now we are discussing prostitution.....
What was this article about again??
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 1, 2018 - 2:27am
Ryan is giving pointers on how to keep it from slipping out of your hand. He would know. I suspect he uses a great deal of cheap hand lotion
Flying Junior Added Sep 1, 2018 - 2:27am
You're just bragging.  I don't believe you for ten seconds.  You have to be a virgin.
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 1, 2018 - 2:31am
Although....may have this all backwards. He's all about truth, you know. Maybe he's being honest and the poor bastard is suffering from toxic semen buildup! He may want to begin examining that shiny pate carefully for the development of a "blowhole"
Riley Brown Added Sep 1, 2018 - 1:03pm
Mustafa, yes I did gleam something about the forum topic out of the discussion. 
Opinions seemed to vary a lot but those I have the most respect for generally seemed to think ignoring abusers is the best tactic.  Of course the ones that appealed to me the most just say delete them, and I might if they were so laced with profanity that I just got fed up, but so far I never have.
I quickly saw that the worst abusers lost no time jumping in and as usual ignored the topic and went straight to their normal insults.
Similarly those whose whose world focus tends to be all about genitalia brought that up, which resulted in quite a lot of enlightening and sometimes entertaining posts.
We have a wide variety of posters and I am no longer surprised when many of them devote 10% to 99% of their posts to their own agenda and completely ignore the forum topic.  Often that makes for fun reading.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 1, 2018 - 1:14pm
Oh, WBers, if Autumn decides to get out again, plead for Chairman Riley, he's sooooo smooth and "balanced" to take over.  He'll only lie when it furthers the Riley as "online statesman" narrative, much as his supposed "wise" decision to "ignore" what he claims are "evil trolls' and "school shooters" like bad ol Jeff, but Riley's words are above scrutiny, cause like Ryan's "virtue", we have Riley's own words he is above scrutiny.  He's an online Abraham Lincoln, of course.  Last outing when Autumn said she was leaving, remember most here wanted either Ryan or Nazi Tom Purcell to "take over."  Uh huh.  
Riley Brown Added Sep 1, 2018 - 1:30pm
Ryan, I was a little surprised to hear how much your view of morality and your sexual practices have evolved over time.  In a strange way your sexual exploits and appetite for variety greatly exceeds mine, (in some ways), and every friend that I have that I know that much about. 
Strangely as warped as you think I am sexually, I feel the same about you, knowing how many times you paid prostitutes to service you.  I'm hardly frigid but can't envision a scenario where I'd pay for sex, or need to for that matter, since I've never been in the service and could always go out and find very willing partners. 
You talk as though you think you're a great lover but how would you know, all the women you experimented with were prostitutes, even high paid by your description.  When you pay the big bucks of course they will flatter you, and even pretend you go them off if they think that will help.  If you were really good, word would get around, and you wouldn't have had to pay for your sex. 
I will talk from experience and tell you that if you never had sex with someone you were crazy about and felt like they were just as crazy about you, you havn't experienced the best there is.  Perhaps that's why you've never been married. 
I think its unlikely that a man who resorts to prostitutes for sex, like your did, would not have indulged with someone you met who liked you enough to want to have sex with you.  That makes me wonder what it was about you that made you an unattractive potential sexual partner?  Almost anyone can go into bars and find a willing partner quickly, and that's true even in very high class bars.  I don't know anyone who resorted to prostitutes at a time in their life when they could get their sex for free.  I do know people who don't like bars, they go to more exclusive places like Yacht Clubs and Golf Clubs.
Given that you have admit you went thought your own wild sex phase, I am a little surprised how hard you come down on others who are perhaps just going through what might be their own wild sex phase.  I think if God were to judge you and them in another 50 years, you might look very similar and be similarly judged for your own lifestyle, as those you so freely criticize.
Riley Brown Added Sep 1, 2018 - 8:17pm
Ryan, it's not just liberals who enjoy mind altering substances, I know few people, possibly not even you who don't enjoy a drink every now and then, and alcohol is a mind altering substance.  I can't imagine any big political party without a champagne toast, or even weddings with the exception of Mormon and Muslim weddings.
The only people I know outside of you, that intentionally avoid sex outside of marriage, are my married and faithful.  I'm sure there are more in convents, and Catholic rectories, but normal people like to include sex in their lives.  In my world marriage is not a prerequisite for sex and I would never want to live in a world were it was.  Even if I was married, why would I want to deny people who aren't the pleasure?
I also disagree with you about a mandatory requirement for folks to learn about history before commenting about politics, lots of people don't know much about history and vote.  If you don't learn what motivates them how can you ever expect to enlighten them.  In addition, your "truth" is often more than a little debatable especially when it comes to your beliefs about morality. 
I believe that we have an obligation to prevent knowledgeable and bold people from bullying those who are less knowledgeable and shy.  I've learned a lot from people whose English was horrible and weren't very good at expressing themselves.  If you exclude their contributions your knowledge of reality is smaller than if you spend a little more time and see what they have to say.
Morgoth Added Sep 1, 2018 - 10:27pm
Wow....at least I’ve never paid for sex.  
I find the the thought of that icky.  I think the only reason to go to a prostitute is if you hit the age of about 24 and you are still a virgin.  Then you need to do it and get it out of the way.
That being said those who decide to wait for marriage out of personal conviction are fine by me.  Though it seems rather repressed to me and leaving it up to a wedding night seems like a recipe for awkwardness.
Riley Brown Added Sep 1, 2018 - 11:07pm
Ryan, lots of people enjoy very committed relationships that have all the qualities you associate with marriage, but are not because the partners weren't religious and never felt like signing up for the government created contract.  I believe the sex they have is just as special as the sex enjoyed by married couples and definitely better than the sex you had with prostitutes.
Do you think that now that Gay Marriage is legal, that when Gay couples have that state created contract their sex becomes legitimate? 
If not please explain how their sex is different?
How there sex hurts them?
How their sex hurts other people?
And if everyone else who is not religious but buys that state contract is also having sinful sex?
As far as voting, I would love it if everyone became acquainted with all the relevant information including history but that is not going to happen.  Most people gleam a little and go with their emotions.
Since they do vote, I believe it is to all our benefit if they partake in forums where it's possible they will become enlightened with facts they woudn't otherwise know.  If you ban them from forums they will still vote.  The US has no intelligence or literacy requirement, only a citizenship one, they frequently don't enforce.
Ryan Messano Added Sep 2, 2018 - 12:03am
That is honorable, Jeffrey, however, while I had no problem sleeping with a woman if I wanted to, I legitimately wanted to marry a woman who wanted to have as many children she could have.  Due to the success of our media and school brainwashing, the women in my area aren't like that.  So, rather than be patient, I made a very wicked choice, and decided to pursue sex illicitly.  I learned very quickly that that was a miserable choice.  I never pursued a woman unless I wanted to marry her.  Finally, I was simply frustrated with our society, where men and women are intent on doing the easiest thing.  So I went out and did the easiest thing too.  Huge mistake. 
It's not repressed at all to wait for one's marriage  night, IMO.  You don't need to win the Sexual Olympics  your first night.  One has the rest of their life to figure it out.  Adam and Eve had no practice and no sex ed, and they made it happen. 
Ryan Messano Added Sep 2, 2018 - 12:24am
Riley, that is simply not so.  The studies show that people who co-habitate without getting marriage have higher rates of domestic abuse.  They divorce at higher rates too.  The sex in a cohabitational relationship is exactly the same as that enjoyed with a prostitute.  It's transactional and no commitment is necessary. 
No, Riley, homosexual marriage will never be legal, because SCOTUS never had the authority from the Constitution to legalize contraception in 1965, porn in 1969, abortion in 1973, homosexuality in 2003, and homosexual marriage in 2015.    The Kinsey report is garbage science and it is behind all of these rulings.  You are pretty insightful and may enjoy this informative book.
Homosexuality is a public health disaster, for starters.  It's quite a dangerous behavior.   Please do not go to Google and research this, because Google is stacked with resources to feed you disinformation.  Please take the time to learn how disinformation works from both a former Russian KGB agent, and from a Romanian defector,  STD rates from homosexuality, especially among men, are off the charts. This raises the premiums for every one's health insurance.
Marriage between a man and a woman is always legitimate, whether one is religious or not. 
On voting, people live up to expectations.  If we are informed and vote accordingly, and inform others who inform others, very shortly, we will have all informed voters voting.  Each of us has the butterfly effect on others. As God influences me, I influence  you.  Whether you will influence others is up to you, but the trajectory of your life depends on how you accede to God's will.  You can live your life to yourself, and die forgotten and without achievements, or you can live your life to God and others, and die among the noble and great.  The choice is yours.  The Choice of Hercules is before you. Which way will you choose?
On voting, I'm in favor of raising the voting age to 25, unless one is in the military.  Our brains pre frontal cortex, which determines right and wrong, isn't fully formed until 25, so it's scientific to do that.  Also, if someone is on welfare, or drugs they should not be voting.   That can be solved by not allowing voter registration for welfare recipients.  That is motivation to get up and support themselves, or find some other help away from government.  There are 39 million people on welfare, and they vote, majority for the Democrat party.  Also, drug testing would eliminate the 70 million Americans on psychotropic drugs who can't often think straight and are incapable of critical thought.  All of these are choices.  The vast majority of those on welfare make poor decisions in time management.  For the rest, it's not the governments job to help them, it's the rich and the church's job. 
I bet if you go an entire month without any sex whatsoever, you'll be more communicative and will be more open to truth, and won't be so reticent on your birth gender:). 
Morgoth Added Sep 2, 2018 - 12:44am
I lived with someone before I met my wife.  We got along fine but figured out at one point it just wasn’t going to be.  So we broke up.
I will say that taught me that I wasn’t going to live with someone who I wasn’t going to marry.
Morgoth Added Sep 2, 2018 - 12:46am
Still pestering Riley about her gender, I see.  Ryan, let it go.  It doesn’t mean a damn thing.
Morgoth Added Sep 2, 2018 - 12:47am
Sorry, still pestering Riley about their gender.
Ryan Messano Added Sep 2, 2018 - 1:05am
That is a serious crime, Jeffrey, you are potentially misgendering Riley.  For shame!:).  That is a far worse crime than asking the gender Riley was born. 
I see, well, it's wonderful you stayed faithful, though fornication with a prostitute or a partner is exactly the same thing.  All sex outside of marriage is evil.  With a prostitute there are no false representations made.  Both parties know up front that commitment is not required.  It's pretty miserable. Sleeping with anyone without paying is simply establishing a rapport, and capitalizing on it for selfish gain.  I didn't want to get attached to anyone unless I was going to marry them.  I should have completely avoided all sex, but grew weak at 33, and stepped right into the bee's nest.  After getting stung rather badly, I hurriedly left the Bee's nest, finding out that it was not me doing the pricking, but rather it was my soul being painfully pricked. 
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 2, 2018 - 7:52am
@Riley. "Dr Green, one old friend told me he tries to behave in a way that he'd not be ashamed of if his mom was present.  His mom is long dead but I still like the idea."
Indeed, but the teachers who imparted some of their wonderful skills to us are not around and yet we advance and become proficient. The thing is to train a kid in the way s/he should grow up and when grown, s/he will not depart from the way.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 2, 2018 - 7:53am
Must confess that I agree with some of what Ryan stated about the feminization of men.
Mustafa Kemal Added Sep 2, 2018 - 9:16am
Riley, I hope you know that, now that Ryan has confessed, it is our turn. He feels he has set a shining example of virtue.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 2, 2018 - 9:44am
Glad to see Ryan fessing up. I always suspected that hiding behind the bible was to cover his shortcomings. Pity his foray into sex was short-lived by his experience of a woman pulling out one bigger than his, or from a woman who demanded to be in the saddle. Poor bloke has been horribly scarred.
Mustafa Kemal Added Sep 2, 2018 - 10:03am
Dr. Rupert,
re"Must confess that I agree with some of what Ryan stated about the feminization of men."
Indeed, waaaay down in there are many things that might make sense, but paraphrasing Burghal, 
he is a clusterfuck of a messenger.
Now,  please shut up and do not speak on this thread until you have listed those 5 biographies and disclosed your birthgender.
Riley Brown Added Sep 2, 2018 - 10:52am
Ryan the statistical evidence that I've seen showing more domestic violence is very flawed.  Correlations are not causes and you need to remember that. 
Anyone can cohabitant but the pool of people who get married these days is quite different from those who don't.  Those who don't include a huge number of people in short term relationships, who do not get along as well as they thought they would.  Most people who get married are much more careful since they know it will get very messy if they get divorced.  People who are not married do not have higher "divorce" rates, you can't get divorced if your'e not married. 
Sex between cohabiting monogamous adults is NOTHING like having sex with a prostitute.  You paid women who probably didn't even like you and had absolutely no attachment or commitment to you, to spread their legs and let you screw them.  Adults in monogamous relationships are satisfying each other's appetite for affection, closeness and sexual satisfaction, exactly like married couples do and maybe even more.  Many married couples can't stand each other but stay together anyway because divorce is so traumatic.  Cohabitation adults can split up much more easily.
Quoting things like Russian STD rates is also quite flawed as an argument against Gay Marriage because the two have NOTHING in common.  Straight men in Russian prisons also have high TB rates, and that to is irrelevant.  Anyone who runs around banging as many partners as possible in unprotected sexual encounters, Gay or Straight, is in the high risk group.  Conversely anyone in a committed monogamous relationship has little to worry about, Gay or Straight.
Riley Brown Added Sep 2, 2018 - 10:59am
Jeffrey, no need to be so careful about my gender preference when referring to me, I generally respond favorably to any reference that isn't one of the 4 letter words.
I am far more interested in the intent and message than I am in how you refer to me and since I never clarified my gender I'd have to be awful picky if I condemned others for not divining it.
If I were as preoccupied by gender and sex issues as Ryan, and denied myself all sexual pleasure for as long as he has, I think I would go a little crazy.  He reminds me of a reformed drug addict.
Riley Brown Added Sep 2, 2018 - 11:10am
Dr. Rubin, I too see a contemporary move to De-emasculate men by demonizing the types of behaviors that are normal for that gender.  I see that a lot in our schools.
I think young boys tend to be wilder than girls and wild is less tolerated now than ever in our schools.  Many teachers and counselors rush to get wild boys on drugs to calm them down, when all that's wrong with them is that they are behaving like boys.
Today we're even working hard to emasculate them when they get older by discouraging all forms of male dominate behavior.  Men tend to be more competitive and we have been chopping their balls off if they are competitive around women.  We even discourage classic dating behaviors that are not just natural, but were admired up to a generation ago. 
We want men who are real men, but we don't want them to act like a real man.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 2, 2018 - 11:35am
@Riley. " Men tend to be more competitive and we have been chopping their balls off if they are competitive around women.  We even discourage classic dating behaviors that are not just natural, but were admired up to a generation ago. "
You gots my love for above.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Sep 2, 2018 - 11:45am
Funny, I am finding myself ready to write a treatise in defense of Ryan if he was thinking of leaving WB. Must confess his responses garner some guttural responses and keyboard slamming. Hence, anyone here offering to help him with his issue, please do not go down too hard on him. We think he is becoming the life of WB and would not want him chastened out.
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 2, 2018 - 12:45pm
Ok, as men (or whatever, it matters not to me) we have to be entirely honest about the entire man-woman pairing.  The whore, I contend, is an honest women. She has measured her worth and determined an agreeable sum for her time and the exchange of bodily fluids. The two parties know and accept the terms up front.
The alternative is that the man is expected to tender various offerings of any commodity which holds currency with the prospective partner. Absent an official contract this remains in an entirely speculative realm. How much does one pony up before deciding to cut bait? And if the contract is in the offering it is no different than the whore's proposition, only that payment is accepted in a long term installment plan.
But hey, I'm a cynic. I could, of course, be wrong :)
Ryan Messano Added Sep 2, 2018 - 2:04pm
Thank you, Dr. Green, and I agree with the biblical train up a child idea.
Riley, it’s perfectly rational to say more domestic abuse comes from co habiting.  There is no commitment, and often no community.  I think you are trying to justify your own behavior, that’s what I suspect.  All these years you’ve been taught that sex is Normal and natural and just do what you feel like, and you have, and now you are perturbed to learn differently.
I should have been clearer, Riley.  Those who co habit before marriage have higher rates of divorce than those who don’t.  Moral of the story:  Wait for marriage to have sex and your chances of divorce go down.
Yes, sex between anyone who is not married is exactly the same.  Whether it’s paid for or consensual and free it still involves a ripping apart of the soul, since you aren’t committed long term.  Sex was for two reasons, marriage and children.  That’s it.  If you want to live for the moment and have regrets, then have sex outside of marriage.  If you want to practice self control and have long term fulfillment, then preserve sex for marriage.  There is no love outside marriage.  Love is commitment, and without marriage there is no commitment.  Having sex with someone who you are not willing to commit to or have them commit to you is enormously short sighted and cheats you.  I know, I’ve done it.  Giving oneself completely to another person in sex without having them commit to one forever, is a sad travesty and a sign of insecurity and low standards.  It’s also selfish.  You just want sex and you don’t want to do the necessary work to build a family and make the relationship last.  Love is a choice.  Marriage is choosing to love someone forever.  I’ve never heard you use the word selfish.  It’s because you have selfish tendencies, beliefs, and behaviors, and have never evaluated yourself on being selfish. Matter of fact, you’ve never admitted to being wrong on here at all. Humility is part of growth.  Honor and riches come after one has humility.  Pride goes before the fall.  Homosexuals have far higher rates of STDS, because homosexual men have far higher rates of promiscuity than heterosexual men.  Many have at least 500 partners.
Morgoth Added Sep 2, 2018 - 2:37pm
Call me old fashioned but I at least want to feel attraction to someone before I do naughty things to them.  The naughty things are what make sex worthwhile, not just having something warm to stick it in.
Frankly instead of a prostitute better just to take care of it myself.  No risk involved with that.
I do get needing the warmth of another human being but paying someone for that warmth is false comfort.  I’ve been single and lonely at different times of my life but I never felt desperate enough to pay.  I’m not going to judge the act, Ryan.  Maybe if I’d stayed single longer that would’ve been my route.  What I do find amusing (and hypocritical) is that you accuse me of immorality yet to me paying for sex is far more immoral than anything I’ve ever done.
Flying Junior Added Sep 2, 2018 - 4:09pm
Still planning on running for public office Ryan Messano?  Maybe a member of the Vallejo School Board?  In Solano County California?
Did you just shoot yourself in the foot because you were afraid of failure?
Ryan Messano Added Sep 2, 2018 - 4:32pm
In a nation where all men have viewed porn, the question is not who has sinned, it’s who is willing to admit it and change.
You liberals are the modern day Pharisee.  You find another persons faults and seek to murder them
for it, when you have your own evil.  Looking at porn is the same as being with a prostitute.  In both cases a woman is being paid to have sex.  Both ought to be illegal.  
Its an outrage moral midgets like you, FJ, are full of evil, but trouble yourself constantly to interfere in others affairs.
Ryan Messano Added Sep 2, 2018 - 4:34pm
Just as a person burned by fire, knows best not to touch it, so those who made bad choices, know best the evil of them.  
But in a stupid liberals book, if you touch the fire, you must be burned completely, years after you touched it.
Ryan Messano Added Sep 2, 2018 - 4:35pm
Don’t you just love how those with zero standards, run around and try to make sure others live up to standards they themselves make no attempt to live up to.  Hypocrites.
Mustafa Kemal Added Sep 2, 2018 - 4:36pm
FJ, Ryan still doesnt understand that, as Jeff has been telling him, 
his rantings are available to his adversaries.
 If he survives by some miracle of American insanity, when they get hold of this information,  the internet will be howling with Messanoisms.
Ryan Messano Added Sep 2, 2018 - 4:39pm
Also, you liberals are disgusting hypocrites because make no effort to even ADMIT that standards are good, so you let yourself off the hook, but you constantly crack down on those with standards when they fall.
Ryan Messano Added Sep 2, 2018 - 4:44pm
Ah yes, Mufasa, the normal nonsense.  Constantly Striving to be respected, doesn’t understand respect comes from Wisdom.  Doesn’t understand good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
You hide your own faults, but gleefully pounce on those of the person who has learned their lesson.
Ryan Messano Added Sep 2, 2018 - 4:48pm
Besides, the only person who created standards is God.  He alone judges.  The standards never change, but he is merciful to those who admit it and change.  Wicked heathens like you who love your evil and try to criticize others past wrongdoings, trying to crucify a man today for his faults of yesterday, will be utterly destroyed, without mercy.  You’ll deserve it too.
There is nothing worse than resurrecting a mans faults when he has already overcome them.  It makes sense for liberals, because using others past wrongs to justify their present wrongs is a delightful pastime for them.
I knew you as a snake when I first came across you. 
Ryan Messano Added Sep 2, 2018 - 4:50pm
Also, this illustrates why we have so many problems in our society.  It’s nearly impossible to admit ones faults because liberals will use them to enslave you today.
Ryan Messano Added Sep 2, 2018 - 4:52pm
This is why liberals are so broken, they don’t admit their faults, and that is bad for their health and mental performance, as guilt is a destroyer.  But they rejoice in others shortcomings.
Ryan Messano Added Sep 2, 2018 - 4:55pm
Schadenfreude, Look it up, Mufasa, you perverse snake.
Rusty Smith Added Sep 3, 2018 - 12:48pm
Ryan Messano, if indeed you like to be politically active in real life and are using your own real name, I too would strongly suggest you switch to a pseudonym and a avatar that your political opposition can't connect to you.
I,  like lots of other people who are far too well known to express their real opinions, or test and probe sensitive topics in public, do that all the time.   That way we can discuss topics and say things that might be political suicide in our official capacities, without worrying about the consequences.
You must realize that your religiously based moral zeal is not shared by 99% of the public, and makes you appear to more than a little weird. 
Most of the public is not positively influenced by the opinions of weirdos regardless of whether or not they are intelligent or right.  In a way you do yourself and your causes more harm than good, by negative association, when you openly state your moral standards, after revealing sides of your personality that are easy for your opposition to ridicule.
That is not to say you can't state your beliefs and opinions in public, but if political influence is one of your goals, I would suggest you tone it down in any forum where your opposition might be able to connect you to what you believe.
Ryan Messano Added Sep 3, 2018 - 1:59pm
Thank you kindly, Rusty. Having studied American political history, I’ve rarely seen politicians who were honest about their past failures. If succeeding politically means lying, than politics isn’t for me.
Its kind of shameful you can get books on men who struggled with sexual sin, and successfully overcame it, and they are supposedly of no value to society, but, if you are Bill Clinton you can shamelessly lie, and become president. The American voter needs to learn that all men have faults, but true men overcome them, and are honest about them. It’s a shame when honesty is bad in politics, and dishonesty is rewarded. The beauty of the Bible is we can relate to the moral failings of the great leaders. Same with Plutarch.
You are right about the massive opposition to my ideals. They aren’t new, nor are they mine, and they will be around long after I die.
Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement. Too often, those who didn’t learn from their bad judgment think bringing up the bad judgement of those who did will exonerate their own present bad choices. It never will.
Solomon was a very wise ruler, yet he admitted his faults in Ecclesiastes. Part of his wisdom was not admitting to his own faults, but in saying what was wise and foolish. I need to do better at that
Rusty Smith Added Sep 3, 2018 - 10:05pm
Ryan Messano, there is a big difference between lying about your past failures and waving your dirty laundry out where everyone who doesn't like you can easily see and use it to discredit you.  
I happen to think that political jobs should be regarded as employment and candidates should be judged by their job skills far more than their personalities and promises they make that are impractical or impossible for them to keep.  The best person for many political jobs might be someone with all sorts of personal faults, but strong business, and financial skills who has strong political connections and support.
Politicians are supposed to be people who selflessly champion all the things that will be good for their constituency, and that requires a skill set that can be inspired by religion but can easily not include any religious beliefs.  In  our very diverse religious society I would strongly suggest candidates focus on their relevant job skills and sideline all discussions that suggest their decisions may be religiously based. 
For instance I see nothing wrong with a politician not wanting to discuss things like abortion if their job has nothing to do with that issue.  Their opinion is irrelevant.  I do want to know if the new Sheriff is pro or anti gun, but that's because they make rules about things like concealed weapon permits.  They don't make abortion laws.  Bill Clinton was quite an effective President despite his womanizing, and that may also be true for Trump.  It also might be true that men who aren't aggressive like that tend to be less effective Presidents, and I want our President to be effective and respected by all the two bit nations that would like to mess with the US.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 4, 2018 - 5:50pm
Wow, I'm so impressed!  Ryan admits with being with 80 hookers....We're any of them female or over 18 when you bought them, Messano?  Please, your voters reading this will want to know.
John Howard Added Sep 7, 2018 - 2:05pm
Ryan Messano writes:
"Besides, the only person who created standards is God.  He alone judges."
So that means that Ryan is God.  This explains a lot.